The Overwhelmed Vet Podcast
Learn how to tackle the overwhelm, difficult clients (and colleagues!), emotional toll, high expectations and the general craziness we all experience in vet med.
Your host Gunila Pedersen is a Small Animal Veterinarian working in ER and also a Master Certified Life Coach. She burnt out after owning her own clinic, and managed to find the way back through life coaching.
Today she shares insights, relatable topics, tactical advice and the tools and inspiration that will help you fall head over heels in love with vet med again just as she did.
The Overwhelmed Vet Podcast
Ep. 109: How to manage working in a clinic with poor management
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Have you ever worked or are you working in a clinic under poor management? Then you know EXACTLY how frustrating it can be!
In this episode I take you through a process that helps you see what choices you have, maintain your wellbeing and how to:
- Fight for systemic changes (e.g., staffing, protocols) by communicating needs clearly, but remain emotionally detached from the outcome to avoid disappointment
- Set firm boundaries regarding work hours and schedules, informing management of necessary boundaries rather than asking for permission
- Basically, the whole framework to be able to thrive in a poorly managed practice - if you CHOOSE to stay.
* If you’re a leader, then check out the webinar on how to become a good veterinary leader (in collaboration with South Coast Veterinary Management Solutions) so your employees don’t need the framework in this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIsbHhnXO-o.
In this episode I also present to you my BRAND NEW MEMBERSHIP The Thriving Vet Collective: The weekly coaching programme that makes it possible to enjoy the life you worked so hard to create.
Every Thursday you get an hour to bring whatever’s happening in your life, in and out of the veterinary clinic.
I’ll teach you how your brain works, why you feel what you feel, and what to do about it. You can get coached. You’ll watch others get coached.
And over time, the constant second-guessing and brain spin will quiet down; you’ll feel calmer, more confident in your decisions, and able to enjoy your life again.
Right now you can sign up at founder’s rate, locked in, as long as you’re a member. Founding member pricing is limited: the first 10 members join for $19/month and keep that price for as long as they stay. The next 10 join at $39/month. After that, membership is $59/month.
I am also starting up almost-monthly webinars; the first one is “Boundaries: The complete framework for veterinarians.” On Thursday the 8th October @6pm CEST/5pm UK/12 PM ET. Price: 25$, BUT, if you’re a member of The Thriving Vet Collective you get all my webinars for free so just wait for the email I’ll send you with time and link!
If you’re not a member, then you can sign up here: https://gunilalifecoach.kit.com/products/boundaries-the-complete-framework-for-ve
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Email me: gunila@gunilalifecoach.com
The Overwhelmed Vet Podcast 🐾🩺 by Gunila Pedersen
Hi everyone, how are you doing? It's been ages since I last recorded a podcast. I really have taken some time.
Because I wanted to…
What do you call it? Pray what you preach. Preach what you pray. Whatever it is. Like, whatever you say, you do it. Like, walk the talk. And I. I was so busy posting, doing podcasts, doing all sorts, and working really hard all the way, I think, from February right up to June.
the end of June, start of July, and I could really feel the toll, like, I was just busy, busy, busy, and I felt… I felt I needed a break. I just got really tired of everything, and I feel like this is something I coach a lot of my clients on, like, being… always being busy, and…
you feel great, and you feel you're doing a lot, and you feel very productive, but then comes a point where you just really need the break, but now you set yourself up to being busy. You just created busyness in a way, the way you set up your life, no? And I saw a video the other day with, uh.
Someone who was talking about how we have set up all these tools to.
have more time. No, you know, we can order stuff online. We can, instead of sending a letter, we send an email, we send a text. Like, everything is going so fast, and it was supposed to give us more time, but it seems like we have less time than ever. Don't you think? It's just…
there's just always so much to do, also because we are accessible all the time, and we get little messages that interrupt us all the time, and, oh, I just quickly need to do this, I just quickly need to do that, and, you know, that…
there's so many possibilities of stuff we can do as well, like, we're really lucky to live in a world we have so many opportunities, but at the same time, it can wear us out, because it's really difficult to just be quiet and just be. And most people I coach, myself included, we suffer.
With just doing nothing, no, so that has been a bit my mission this summer is to.
Just come down, I really feel into what I want to do.
And what I want to continue doing, my birthday is coming up, my 50th birthday is coming up the 14th of October, and I want, kind of, like, this half a century, I want to really look at what am I doing right now, and it's something I really invite you to do as well, is wherever you are at in your life, is to look at.
Where am I now?
do I like where I am? You know, you've taken a certain path, and that path has led to you, whichever way, to where you are right now, but maybe take a moment to find calm, to find quietness, and look inside that inner wisdom we all have when we actually stop to listen. And it's something, um…
we often don't have access to, because we are so much in our own heads, we are so much in our brains, and I am starting to… I just signed up for some somatic work, you know, to try and address the nervous system itself, because logically, intellectually, I understand all this, and I understand how important it is to take care of ourselves, and to stop, and.
you know, not be on all the time and setting boundaries and all that, but often our nervous systems, who have been, like, built up and primed and kind of settled into what they were, that happened before the age of 7, 8 years old, right? When our parents, school, kindergarten.
Everything molded us into react certain ways to certain things, and to undo some of that shit.
like, you really need to work on it, and you need to have your body, and you need to have your brain on it, because you cannot intellectualize yourself out of everything. So, that's what I've been working on this summer, and I'm doing some, like, work on the body as well, as opposed to… as well as the brain, because the brain alone.
Cannot always solve for all the problems we have and where we want to go with our lives, no, so this is an invitation to you to look at your priorities, look at where you are, do you like where you are, and not like as in regrets or resentment towards your past or the choices you made or where maybe you think people made you go, but more like where do you want to go now, like do you like where you are now, no, okay, well then let's do something about it, no.
And the conclusion I come to so far is like, I want to continue working as a vet because I actually, I just love the work and it's, it's, it's a job that's like, especially being a nightweight is paid in a, in a way that, you know, you can just not like to earn that kind of money.
Doing anything else, you would have to work a lot of hours, right? So, working as a night vet, I can work short, intense moments and, you know, and get paid well for that, and then have a lot of freedom. And working nights especially, I think if you've ever done emergency shifts, you know, the special kind of humor you have, the special.
interactions you have with clients, and your nurses, and the other staff, and it's just… it's that whole adventure in itself, and I think I would really miss it if I retired now. So, like, for now, I'm definitely continuing. The only reason I would stop being a vet would be if.
you know, my coaching business takes off so much that I kind of have to choose, and then I will for sure choose the coaching, because it's the ripple effect, isn't it? I can help so many more animals and owners if I can help vets being content and thrive in the veterinary community, you know?
Gunila Pedersen13:23:56
So definitely that's where I'm now. And I also was pondering on exactly this, like, how can I help as many vets as possible, you know, at one moment? And for this I have actually, and I'm super excited. It's the first time I talk about this because I did.
Uh, I haven't… I did invite the… the vets I've worked with before, and I invited my email list first, because, like, I've… like, they've been, like, VIP members in my community, but you as my podcast listener are definitely also, like, up high there of people that I really appreciate, because you take the time to listen to me, and follow me on my podcast, and subscribe, and…
And I really, really appreciate that. So I want to just quickly, before I start talking about what I want to talk about today, which is also very important, talk to you about the Thriving Vet Collective. I have created a membership where you sign up.
for a monthly fee, and right now, I am just, like, signing up founders, so the first 10 founders of the membership are gonna be locked in at $19 a month, and the next 10 members are gonna be locked in at $39 a month, and from then on.
the membership will be $59 a month, which I think it's like a gym membership, right? It's perfectly affordable for anybody. Um, if you have enough money to have a phone or computer, or listen to me right now, you definitely can afford that as well. So it's affordable for everybody, and what it is, is it's a weekly.
Coaching session where.
all the vets that want to be part of this community, of this collective, you can turn up to the session, you can turn up live, you can raise your hand and be coached, or you can sit back and listen to other people getting coached. And the group… when I've done group programs before, it's something people have said, and something I have found as well, it's like, you can learn so much.
From seeing other people being coached, like, things that I didn't even know were problems or patterns that I had, when you listen to other people getting coached, you're like, oh my god, I did all that, I did, I do this all the time, I didn't even realize that was the thing, and that's why I feel like this, no?
So that is very… it's incredibly useful to hear others getting coached. It can feel a bit overwhelming to be in front of a group of people and getting coached, because I know there's a lot of shame involved in this profession, being a vet. As a human experience in general, we have… we feel a lot of shame around things.
And we all think that we are the only ones experiencing these problems. We all feel that other people are going to judge us because everybody else seems to be perfect, right? So being coached in front of others is confrontational to a point, and it can be challenging. But I also feel just as I am 100% vulnerable and talking about my mistakes and my fears and my doubts on this podcast.
Like, we need to be more open about the issues we have in veterinary medicine, about our anxieties, about our worries, about our brain spin, about how useless we feel sometimes, and how, you know, bad we feel sometimes, and the challenges we have, and the dreams we have, you know, because we need to share that, and we need courageous women and men to stand up and say, hey, I'm feeling this, and this is what I'm battling with.
And then having me as a master coach coming in and say, hey, I see what you're saying and this is why you're feeling like this. I can, this is what you're thinking. You think the problem is this, but actually it's that. And did you know that so many other people also have this? And we often, the way I set it up is like it's going to be a Zoom call. We can all, you don't have to be in camera if you don't want to, but you can put emojis up. So it's a bit like if you feel the same, you ever felt the same, you can put an emoji in and you can literally see in lifetime how everybody is suffering from the same things.
And it is so important that we, like, open up this dark cavity of shame and shine a light on it. And, you know, I felt so bad because this happened, or I really worry because this, and there's this complaint, whatever it is that's going on for you. And it doesn't have to be…
specifically veterinary-related, because all vets also have lives, so it can be on parenting, it can be on whatever it is, because the way we do one thing is the way we do everything. So anything you get coached on, you can apply to everything else, and anything you get coached on is going to be helpful to everybody who is watching.
And if you can't make it to the live sessions, you can listen or you can watch it in the replay. There's going to be obviously closed replays for the people that are in the collective. And that is a way as well. So if you can't make it to the live calls or some of the live calls, then you can watch the replay as well. So it's going to be every Thursday at, let me just try and get the time zones right.
It's going to be every Thursday at 7 p.m.
European time, so summer at CEST, and then it's going to be 6 PM UK time. This is because I work night shifts and I start at 7 PM, and I want everybody to, I want to be able to do it on the weeks that I'm working as well. So the other weeks that I'm not working, I'm happy to go a bit over if anybody has got questions or we're just like coaching on something or debating something really important, but on that week, specifically Thursday, that I'm working, which is 1 out of 4 weeks.
Gunila Pedersen13:28:56
we will stop, like, on time, and I'll have to go to my ship, right? So, um, I'll put the link to the sign-up in the show notes, so check it out, all the explanations and that, but I just wanted to introduce it to you before we started, in case you then get distracted later, and you don't end up listening to the end of this podcast.
Anyway, so that's it. So, Thriving Vet Collective, sign-ups have started now, funders rate for the beginning, for the first 10, and then next 10, and then it's the normal rate for everybody.
Okay, so today I want to talk about how to manage bad management.
And I did a leadership webinar recently.
Well, talk about it from the leader's perspective. Know how to…
How to manage your mind, how to manage your ego, how to feel that inner calm and lay in the ground there so you can give and take feedback and be in the right headspace and your nervous systems being in the right space as well, and I had a lot of good feedback.
On this, it was just like feedback, feedback, feedback. I had a really good feedback on this, but, and you can actually find it, I shared it both on my email list and also shared on social media. I did it in collaboration with another vet that has, she's not a vet, but she works for vets, she has a consulting firm, and we did it in collaboration, so it's on YouTube and you can catch it.
So, I have the link somewhere. Um, so I did that, but I think, from my own experience, and from all the clients I've had as well, what if you're not the leader, but what if you are on the other side of a leader that has not listened to my webinar, and has not done the work on themselves.
And, uh, they are in fight and flight, or they are in full ego, or they are just not, like, have no leadership skills, right? So you have a choice, right? And this is what I really want to tell you.
If you work in a clinic, either with corporate or it's a private clinic, and the leader you have is not managing their own mind, and you don't like how the place is run, and you feel that you are suffering because of how the leader is, or you think the clients, the animals.
your co-workers are suffering because of how the leader is, you've got two options, right? You've got to stay, or you've got to leave. And in either case, you want to coach yourself around it and find out what exactly you want to do. Because sometimes, the workplace can be a bit shit, to be honest.
But you want to stay, because it's convenient for you. Like, where it is, like, it's close to your house, the pay is great, the hours are great, you like the people you work with, you like the clients you work with. That can be a thousand, um…
Reasons why you want to stay, you know, it can also, sometimes the reason can be less.
logistic, it can be just, like, maybe you're scared to move to a new place, maybe you convince yourself you can't go to another place, maybe you convince yourself that any place is gonna be worse, so you definitely want to coach yourself around, like, what are my reasons, and I invite you to literally write it down, my reasons for staying, and what would be good reasons for leaving, so you don't…
Like.
brainwash yourself into staying at a place you don't really want to be staying, or you convince yourself for leaving, and they're not the right reasons, right? There's never…
one right decision, like, whether, whatever this decision you decide to do, make, like, am I leaving, am I staying? Whatever decision you make is the right one, but you just want to look at your reasons, and when you look back on your reasons, you want to be happy with them. So there's no right decision here, you just make it right.
Okay.
So let's say that you decide to stay because it's just easier for you, the pay is good, you can pick up your kids after, you know, like, you like some of the vets that work there, but management is just appalling. Like, the way they manage their shifts.
You're understaffed. They don't listen to you. They have stupid protocols. They don't give you the meds that you want. They don't give you the support that you need. They handle complaints in a really arsey manner. You know, you're just, like, unhappy with a lot of the aspects.
of management. Maybe you're even unhappy with manager themselves.
It could be that there's just no chemistry between you and them. You know, some of our managers…
are not vets, they have no clinical background, and sometimes speaking to them can be like, you feel like you're speaking to, like, an alien, right? You're speaking to someone who has no clue about what you're talking about, and they just, like, you are, like, you're from Mars, and they're from Venus, or whatever, you know? It could also be that you're in an independent clinic, and your boss knows.
perfectly what we were talking about, because they are vet, and they own the clinic, but they are so stressed, or they are… and they are so in fight and flight, that they cannot, like, receive feedback without being super defensive and jump back at you, you know? And that is, like, they have to manage their own mind.
I want to make it very clear. So this podcast is not for you to convince you to stay in a clinic you don't want to be in. It is only if you do the diligent, diligent, diligent, the diligent coaching on yourself to know exactly.
Gunila Pedersen13:34:05
that you want to stay and why you're staying, now I'm going to give you the tools to help you, right? So, to make it as easy and nice for you as you decide to stay in this place until something better comes up, right? So, if you decide to stay, you need to know.
first of all that you have to assume that you cannot change things you cannot change other people I have described talked about this extensively in my podcast episodes about the manual and about other people's opinions that you cannot change other people other people would do what they want and my husband Bruce who like who um he understands what I say when I'm talking about coaching but he has to hear it in another manner.
But he was just saying a quote that he's literally saved on his phone, which just goes to something in the lines of, like, expecting other people to do what we think they should do, or to be in a way we think they should be, is ridiculous. And it really is, because we have all been brought up so different, with so different culture, parents, family, schools, whatever it is.
That not 2 people are equal and not 2 people think the same, right, so for you to expect your leader to be in a specific way, to behave in a specific way, and to think about you and think about the clinic in a specific way, it's frankly ridiculous because the background they have.
It's likely very different from yours, and you have no idea, like.
The complex inner universe of the…
thoughts and feelings and why they do things, right? So, you cannot have any expectations, really, of.
how your leader is, or how they might change, and you cannot expect you saying something to them, and that will make them change. Like, if I had the formula for that, I would be so stinking rich, I would have a Tesla in each car outside my house, right? So…
You have to… that is the first thing you need to understand. If you decide to stay in a workplace that has bad management, you are not going to be able to change these people.
What you need to do is to be able to manage your mind around it, and be able to ride the system, and play the system as much as you can, so you can be happy, your patients can be happy, and your co-workers can be as happy as possible, right? So, the first thing you need to understand is this.
you cannot change the leader, they will not change, they will never change, and that's just… that is in stone, right? That is written in stone. They will not change as people. I know one person in my almost 50 years of life, I have… I know one nurse that was, like, a head nurse that got… that was, um…
that was… she was a bully, and she was not very nice to people, and she just had a very confrontational way of being, and she had feedback one after another, had meetings, and she changed, and she's the only person I've ever known who changed, and that is very, very remarkable. Um, and that is an exception.
And that is an exception to the rule, and the rule is people will not change, right? So just… I'm repeating this because I really want you to understand, people will not change. If you marry that motherfucker, he's not gonna stop being an alcoholic, right? If you, um… if your kid is hell-bent on being, um…
a biker, you're not gonna get them to change. You're not like that. You cannot change people. So, you need to understand this. Now, how can you still be happy regardless of this? So, first of all, something that really, um, undermines our happiness and our joy in the workplace is feeling that we don't have any autonomy.
and that we're not making a difference. So, I would invite you to, if there are changes you think that needs to be made in the workplace, is that you still fight for these changes, that you still, but you fight in a way that you put it across, you know, you write it down, you send the email, you have the meeting with them, and you can do that repeatedly, but you are not attached to the outcome.
It's a bit like.
Imagine a bow and an arrow. You have the message, you know, rolled around the shaft of the arrow. You pull the bow, you shoot the arrow, and you just let it go. You've done your bit, and you step back. You don't expect any changes. You don't expect anybody to do anything. You're not attached to.
how that arrow lands, where it lands, and how people receive that arrow. That is super important, because when we start having expectations around, I look, we are understaffed, we need more receptionists, nurses, whatever it is, you know, I want another vet.
With me or whatever.
And and you want that really badly and you think it'd be good for the clinic and you think it'd be good for everybody and you repeatedly say that but then nothing happens and you have the expectation that something was going to happen. That's when you get really disappointed and you feel that what you've done was worth nothing and you start getting.
that gets you down, you feel unmotivated. So you really need to understand that any changes you want to make in your workplace, I think you should fight for it. I think you should definitely do what you can to have the changes implemented. Like, keep repeatedly saying, look.
it's just not on, you know, that we only have one receptionist on Sundays, because we are so busy, we really need to, and you keep saying it.
But you're not attached to the outcome of it, you want to go home with a clean conscience, saying no, I really fought for this place to be better, but also you forget about it then, and there's a very fine balance, and you really need to, once you have done this, once you have sent the email, once you've had the meeting.
Gunila Pedersen13:39:13
You then need to really watch your brains and notice when your brain is like, well, they haven't answered yet, and why didn't they? And there come up a lot of shoulds, they should have, they should really, why didn't, they shouldn't have, they shouldn't have, and so on and so on.
Because that is just a negativity that's gonna grind on you over and over. And I'm not saying it's not unfair.
I'm saying, yes, it is unfair. It is unfair.
that you don't get the stuff you want. It is unfair that you don't get the breaks you want, and so on, right? When you're actually saying it, it's not fair, but you decided to stay in this workplace, and then you have to accept that things are how they are. So that is the… so the first rule, you cannot change the person themselves, the leader, the manager, they're gonna set… they're gonna be the same person, they're not gonna change, they're not gonna change their behavior and the things they do.
And second, try to change the things you want changing, not the person, the things you want changing. Yes, try, fight for them, email about them, but don't be attached to the outcome.
Of whatever feedback you've given.
Um, and now the third thing. You have to accept that things are like they are. Even if they're unfair, even if they're not okay, you have to accept that this is how things are right now. Because otherwise, once you decide to stay in the workplace, you cannot keep arguing with the reality, right? It's a bit like…
Say you're gonna have a wedding, and you've chosen this beautiful garden, and these beautiful surroundings, and everything is like… and it's sunny every day, and then on the day of your wedding day, it…
pisses down, right? It rains… it's raining dogs and cats, and you… your whole wedding is ruined because you are arguing with the reality of the rain.
Right, so the whole thing is just, like, ruined because you wanted it to not rain, and it rains, right? So, a normal bride or groom would actually have set up a Plan B for this. No, like, you would have a Plan B, so whatever, wherever the, the, um, the premises are, you would also have, like, an inside plan, or you would have a pergola, you have something.
In case it rains, right? Because you know you can't argue with the reality of rain and then be pissed off about it. That doesn't make any sense, right? So, the way corporate works, or the way maybe a private clinic works, where the owner is just, like, has tunnel vision, and this is how things are, will always be.
You cannot argue with that reality. You have to accept that right now, if you're understaffed, tomorrow you're probably going to be understaffed as well. And you have to accept it. You cannot keep arguing with yourself, come home and argue about it at home, like we're understaffed, and then keep…
you know, um, complaining to your co-workers about it, because it's just going to drag everybody down. Right now, the reality is, we understand, right now, the reality is, I cannot get.
I don't know, intravenous liver to your system, because we don't have it. It has to go through some channels before we can get it. So what have I got? I've got phenobarbital, I've got this, I've got, you know. So, um, you have to accept.
what is right now. And it is a very fine distinction between what I told you before, like, yes, fight for change, but be detached from the outcome, but also accept what is right now. That is literally the key to happiness. If you can accept what is right now while you're fighting for change, but while you're being detached from the outcome.
That is the key to happiness because you feel you're doing your bit, you're not constantly finding the evidence of everything that's wrong, and also you don't get super disappointed when the changes you fought for don't get implemented straight away, because you know what, it's like I have seen this before, like somebody fought and fought and fought for change, and then in the end they got fed up and left, and then the company made the changes, and it's a bit like, so it could be that you're fighting for changes and they're not going to happen in your lifetime there.
but they might happen later, right? Never forget that there's always a ripple effect of words that you say. Once you set words out, once you set that arrow out with your bow, you know, ripple effects might come into place that you cannot even see now. So…
Let me try not to lose my thread, so…
right so you need to accept what is right in front of you and you need to not that's it so the next thing I want to say like in order to accept what is in front of you in order to accept the situation as it is as badly managed as it is this is what you got right now right and you decided to stay because it works out better for you than going somewhere else right now you found your reasons now you need to watch your brain's negative.
bias, because your cognitive bias is gonna find everything that you give it a job to find, which means, so, I talked about this before, when you are pregnant, you see prams, you see pregnant women, you see, you see, um, adverts for nappies, and so on, and so on.
And when you get into perimenopause, I've heard this, I haven't actually experienced it yet, but I probably will. Poor Bruce. When you get into perimenopause, you will suddenly hear your husband breathing, and you will hear him chewing. And once that is on your brain, your brain will look for that.
Can I hear him breathing now? Can I hear him chewing now? And that's, like, suddenly it becomes this huge thing in your life, and it wasn't before. He is breathing and chewing like he always was, but your brain is tuned into it now, and that is all you can hear, right? And the same is, um, if something negative is happening.
Gunila Pedersen13:44:29
in the clinic, and your brain latches onto that, and it doesn't want to accept it. For example, um… let me see a good example.
So, let's say that you're understaffed, right? You don't have… let's say you don't have enough, um, kennel assistants, for example, and…
And you have to answer the phone more than you would normally, because… so you don't have time to, like, um, gather your weights, you don't have time to write the notes you wanted to do, because you have to help out with the phones, because there's nobody else. So…
that happens, and the phone goes, and your brain is like, well, that goes again. If we weren't understaffed, I wouldn't have to pick up the phone, and now I have to pick up the phone again, and the phone is so annoying, and the phone is constantly ringing, and your brain latches onto that, and the phone could actually be ringing maybe less than other days, but because your brain is tuned into that.
It's going to annoy you and irritate you and keep reconfirming to you that you're understaffed and why you're understaffed and why don't you get more staff, right? And that is just going to undermine your chances of being happy in the job that you chose to be in, in this specific place, right?
So, it is very important when you catch that, and you kind of have some sort of mantra, or saying to yourself, it's like, yes, true, we understand, we know that. Right now, this is what we've got to deal with. And you kind of, like, turn it around, so you can be like, I'm so glad that I'm experiencing in picking up the phone, because I can, you know, get rid of these calls really quickly, I can find out, I can triage really quickly whether they want to come in or not, right? So I can help out.
And I'm not saying again, like false positivity, like it's great, I have to answer the phone. No, but you need to find a way to live with it. You need to find a way to accept it because you chose to stay in this workplace for now, right? So again, I'll start from the top again because I think you cannot hear this enough times. Your leader is who they are. You have to just let them be who they are. And you can tell yourself.
This person is just not very capable. They landed in a job that was just not for them. I'm sure they're doing their best. They're probably not that… maybe not that bright. It's not their fault. You can say whatever you want to say to yourself to just…
Forget about trying to change this person. They are who they are, right? And the second, you can…
Try to, and I encourage you to, change your workplace, like, do whatever you can, send your arrows out, your feedback, your emails, your meetings, but don't be attached to the outcome. And then accept how things are, and watch your brain when it wants to argue with the reality what is, again.
Right? And this all comes back to, I'm not saying stay in a toxic workplace you don't want to stay in, but this is… these are ways to stay when you have decided to stay, because right now it's better than moving.
Of two evils, right?
So…
Another thing bad management does, apart from keeping you understaffed and not giving you the meds you want and kind of making you, you know, things are just not run efficiently. So another thing that can happen is that they put you on some shitty shifts or you, the waste.
things are set up, you have to work more, or work more hours, or get home late. Now, this is a classic case of you being able to set boundaries and stand by them.
And in WEDMED, we are very professional.
We are very hard workers to the point that we are overworkers. We are perfectionists. We really, we are, we are strivers. We really want to prove that we are hard workers. We really want to prove we're good people. We really want to prove that we can do this. And hence it is very hard for us to say no and to protect ourselves.
But this is a case, when management is running this ship badly, and they're running it in a way that you cannot do your work efficiently, you get home later, you cannot… you have to stay to write your notes, you need to set boundaries. You need to say, you don't need to ask, you need to say, you know, um…
I need an hour for these numbers. I'm just going to take this time.
I need to… you… I am gonna block my last consult off, I cannot do the last one, because I'm always ending up late, because you guys keep overbooking me, so I'm gonna block this off. So you need to stand up for yourself, and you need to set boundaries, because you know who is not gonna set boundaries for you and help you out?
Yes, you guessed it, the management, the bad management is not gonna set boundaries for you. You have to set those boundaries, and you have to set them now, and I don't care however you run the show up to now.
if you are not getting home on time, if you are running behind and constantly stressed, and you're not taking your lunch, you need to set some boundaries. And…
You need to do this because I know you want to be in there to help people, I know you want to help out your co-workers, I know you want to see all the pets waiting and the clients waiting, but you need to protect yourself because you need to put the oxygen mask on yourself first, so you have to set boundaries.
And I want to say…
I'm actually, um… in relation to the Thriving Vet Collective that's starting in October, I am also gonna do almost monthly. I say almost monthly, because I don't want to tie myself in to be forced to find something every month. Uh, I do want that freedom to say, hey, I'm doing two webinars this month, or I'm not doing any this month.
Gunila Pedersen13:49:40
But I am going to try and do monthly webinars on specific tools that I know are really, really good, that are really efficient for people in this profession, like tools I use on my clients all the time that just come up again and again. And boundary is such a big issue. So I am going to do my first webinar on boundaries.
And it's going to be in October, and it's going to coincide with, I think it's the second week of the VET Collective sessions. So I think it's the first, the 8th of October, but I figured I'd put in the show notes. And it's going to be $25 for the webinar.
But, if you get into the Vet Collective before that, the Thriving Vet Collective, then anybody in the… in the membership gets the… all the webinars for free, and you get all the replays as well. So, that's definitely something to think about. So, boundaries. Boundaries are the number one that's going to protect you. So, you cannot…
Remember I said you cannot change your manager. You cannot set boundaries. You cannot force them to use some boundaries or to set boundaries for you. You have to set your boundaries for you. So I've set a few like, you know, block off the last consult so people can't put them in for you and you get home late. Say that you want to block off an hour for your notes writing because if they are giving you like, I don't know, 10 minutes consults or something stupid like that, you're going to need more time for.
for your notes, right, and just have to say that. You don't ask for permission, you just have to say… if you don't have the authority to do it, you just have to tell whoever's next, your line manager, or the clinical director, or whatever, and you just say, look, I need this blocking out, because I'm not… I'm not leaving that late.
Every day again, this is just happening, and like I said, I don't care if it's been like this up to now. You have a right to start setting new boundaries from now on, and you just have to work through the discomfort of setting them, and you have to work through seeing others being uncomfortable with you setting them.
And that's another aspect of bad management, right? Because you're going to see colleagues who are incapable of set boundaries and you're going to feel really sorry for them. I am the first person to try and support my coworkers. I will coach them on the go. I will give them good advice.
Um, if I am consulting, like, when I've done day shift and I see a co-worker, I see another vet that's running behind, I will do that consult if I have time. Like, I will pick up the slack from anybody. But you cannot change other people, and you cannot live their life for them. So if another person is incapable of setting boundaries and is letting them down, like, by all means, advise them.
But you be the example, you be example of how to protect yourself and how to thrive in the clinic despite the bad management, right? So you cannot save your coworkers if they're not willing to save themselves, if they're not willing to set boundaries, if they just like.
In this negative mindset, if they insist on being the victim of this place, you cannot help them. I want to say this because I don't want you to now be enlightened and know what to do, and now you feel really depressed because others are not doing it. I don't know, like, refer them to this podcast, but just bear in mind you cannot save everybody. Like, the ones I see are suffering in a workplace. I said, you know, I would just leave, and I will, like, talk through.
But then, you know, just if this…
Place is really sucking your soul out of you. I think you should leave, right, and give them, you know, like, ideas and bounce around. But at the end of the day, again, it's like a person that's alcoholic. If they don't want to help themselves, you cannot help them. And someone who is too scared to leave the workplace because that's just what they know, but at the same time insist on suffering there, you cannot help them.
But yes, do what you can to support your workers and be the example of this is how I set my limits and this is how I protect myself and I see this, I see this in the clinics like where, and especially women would be complaining about, oh my god, I have to work so much and he just comes in whenever he wants and he does this and yes, because men are generally better at setting boundaries for themselves, they don't have that.
urge to nurture and take care that we have, they don't have that urge to pick up the slack that women have, so we are in general worse at it. I just want to say, and if you are a man veterinarian listening to this, I'm not, like, singling you out, I'm just saying this is, like, just something that happens. Um, so men are naturally better at setting boundaries in general.
And we have to know this, and we have to stand up for ourselves. So you want to set boundaries for yourself, in this case, in the clinic, right? So that is a big part of being able to accept how the clinic is run, but at the same time, also set boundaries for yourself.
I wasn't going to say.
If you're in a workplace that tends to have a lot of toxicity because.
management are just running it so badly. I mean, anywhere I have seen with bad management, because people are not managed, there tends to be a lot of gossip, and there tends to be a lot of, like… because nobody really knows what everybody else is doing and what they're supposed to do. Work is inefficient, and people are just, like.
unhappy in general, and this unhappiness tends to broil, right? It is, of course, the leader's job to take over here, and if there's one rotten apple that is upsetting the cat and is, like, just bringing everybody down and messing everything up, of course they should get rid of them, but in general.
Gunila Pedersen13:54:45
It's normally the bad leadership that makes everybody just kind of, like, swim around paddling, you know, hitting each other with elbows, because they don't really know what's going on and what to do, right? Because management is not doing their job.
Okay, so knowing this.
like, protect yourself from the gossip, and protect yourself from the negativity that might be in your workplace. So, like, don't engage in long conversations about what leadership should do and shouldn't do. Don't engage in gossip about who has done more, who has done less, like.
Try and stay out of that and just say, well, I don't really know, like, whatever. Just stay out of it. And instead, complain to the right person at the right time. Again, coming back to, you know, try and change things, but again, not without being attached to the outcome. So, complain to the right person at the right time, but don't engage in these long, like, this should be, and this should be different, or why don't they do this? Well, you just go around in circles.
And nothing really happens, and you're stimulating that cognitive bias, that negative cognitive bias in your brain to keep looking out for everything that's not working. And it's just not helpful, right? Again, I know it should be different, yes, it's unfair, yes, you should have better management, but if you don't, and you are in this clinic, and this is where you decided to stay.
You need to be able to work the system and get around it, right? So, definitely not engaging in negative talk and in negative behavior. Just do your thing, you know, keep your head in line. Be an example to others, you know, to how to protect yourself, and don't engage in victim talk and shoulds and complaining between people.
That just doesn't go anywhere.
Right, so we've covered management, the person can't change, you can try and change the system, but don't be attached to the outcome. You can, um…
you can try and change things, but you still have to accept how they are now, because arguing with reality every day, you're going to lose that argument every day, and you're going to be fed up about it. And, um, keep an eye on your negative cognitive bias that will look out for everything that's working, and just reconfirming it, and.
drilling more and more into you. Um, set your boundaries, check that you're not getting too engaged in these negative conversations, there's negative complaining. Um…
And in general, I would advise that you obviously offload, right? So all that, you know, you get annoyed, like, make sure that you're…
if your workplace is not your happy place make sure you have happy places somewhere else and this also comes back to the boundaries like don't take extra don't like let them blackmail you into taking extra shift and go home when you're supposed to go home of course that's going to be like the one GDV or C-section coming in last minute like once in a in a moon blue moon right but it should not be the rule it should be the exception that you leave late.
So make sure you can get to your happy place and enjoy being out of work as well. So, you know, take up your hobbies if you drop them, like, make sure you, if you're a creative person, like, get back to those creative things. Make sure that your homeland is where you want to be, right? So if you have a supportive partner, talk to them about when you get out and then they did this and then they did that and just offload on the way home and kind of get it out of your system as well.
And if your homeland doesn't feel safe right now, then you really want to work on that as well, like, and your coaching can apply to this as well. If your relationship is a bit of a grind, that can also be because work is getting you down and you're taking that home, right, which is why, again, it's so important for you.
To set boundaries but also to manage your mind and and not be in this.
you know, the vet that said to me, like, this job is a prison. No, it isn't. You choose to be in it, right? Remember that if you are in the job you are now, you can leave anytime you want. And you might say, no, because then I can't pay my mortgage. Well, no, then my kids can't go to this private school, or no, then I can't pay my bills. Okay, but you can leave home.
Or you could choose to be homeless instead of working in the clinic, and I know this sounds really extreme, but it really is a choice to stay in the clinic you're in, and I want you to have that sense of autonomy and that sense of, you know, I make my decisions and I know what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, and I have these priorities and this is why I'm doing this now, and you have your reasons and you're grounded in them.
Because anything else is gonna make you feel like life is just, like, throwing you around and shit, and you don't really have any choice in the matter, and that is not true. You have free will every time you wake up, every morning, and you want to use it, and you want to be aware of how you're using it, right? Which is why.
I said in the beginning of the podcast that I spent some time about thinking about what I want, no, and what I don't want, and.
Especially if you're in a negative workplace with bad management, you can just get dragged into everything is just about this workplace now, and how they're not running it right, and how everything is wrong, and you just get so sucked into it. And it's really important that when you, when you decide that you want to stay, that you use these tools I've just told you, but also like, especially like, especially the boundary bit.
Where you're like, you leave work at work and you go to your happy place afterwards, because that will also give you the energy and the perspective to, and the breathing room to, when you then go into work, you don't go in all like, you know, like hunched up and I hate this place and this and the other, right? No, you make a decision to work that I'm here, I'm earning my money, it's really convenient for me, I love the clients or whatever.
Gunila Pedersen14:00:01
And it just works for me, so I'm going to stay here, right, and these are the measures I'm going to have in place to make sure I can have as much joy as I can out of it. Oh, the last thing I want to say about playing the system, right, so if you are seriously understaffed.
like, make sure you don't take on more than you actually can. Like, you have a right to turn away appointments. You have a right to say to the receptionist, look, we fully booked up, we're not doing any more today. Just say no. It's like, no. Imagine if…
like, you have to cut it somewhere, right? Imagine you had, like, a thousand clients that wanted to come in today, right? You're not gonna say yes to everybody, right? So you might as well cut it at 50, as cutting it at 60, or cutting it at 70. Like, you have a right to say that. And you know what? If they fire you for doing that.
then you're probably meant to leave anyway, right? So, make sure you don't get…
Like, dragged into this, like, hustle culture where we have to see everybody and have to please everybody. Like, people that have pets also have a responsibility, right? They have a responsibility for their health and have a responsibility to get them seen and in good time, no? And they have a responsibility that if you can't see them, they need to find another vet, right? And also.
if you really want to take it out to an extreme, they actually have a responsibility before they get the pet to make sure there is a vet nearby that can actually see them, that has time for them, if you want to take it out. But why should it be your responsibility? You know what I mean? I'm saying this, and I'm being a bit extreme, because I want to… I do want to pull you a bit in the other direction.
So you don't feel so enslaved to see everybody that wants to be seen right now, you know, and you have a right to turn them away and use that right. As a vet, you have a lot of authority, and if you're sole charge in your clinic, you have all the authority, and no management can tell you what to do or not to do.
And you know what? It's so much better to do things and then say, oh, sorry, afterwards than asking for permission, because you know who's not gonna give you permission? Management. So do it, and then say, oh, sorry, afterwards, you know, like…
And just take it, you know? And you know already that you don't like them, you know already you don't agree with how they work, so if they tell you, oh, you can't really do this, another thing you can do, which I really love, and a way to work the system, is like, oh, no, it's fine.
I love that phrase, like, no, it's fine. Yeah, no, it's fine. No, it's all sorted. Yeah, it's fine. You know, you can just, like, a lot of… 50% of the time, you can literally cut the conversation with that. Like, no, it's fine. Yeah, no, it's fine. No, it's sorted out. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah.
anything to work with. You don't need to argue with them, because there's not much point, but just keep doing what you're doing. You know, just keep doing it. You know, um…
you can absolutely turn people away, and you don't have to see them. And the last thing I want to run with… okay, so if you're in a private-owned clinic, it's slightly different, but if you're working for a corporate, just remember…
That you're burnout, you're missed.
reading bedtime stories for your kids, you missed whatever you're not doing, your hair falling out, you're not eating correctly because you're always getting home late. Like, that is on the back of, like.
the owners of the corporate are making money on the back of you, so you just have to remember that as well, like, when you, like, turn into this slave that's just like, yes, yes, I'm just lying backwards, I'm doing everything they want, while you're feeling all this resentment inside, um, just remember that.
At the end of the day, it's a business for them, and they're not going to set boundaries for you, because the more money they can make, they will make, because it's a business, and people that are very high up making decisions are often not vets, have never been in the clinic, and don't know anything, so they just want to see numbers. And for some people, you are just a number.
a bit… oh, almost fell back on my chair here. That might seem unmotivating, but I just wanted… I want you to have that behind your ear when you are setting your boundaries, because I know.
Sometimes we feel really guilty for our co-workers when we set boundaries, but you can set boundaries and you can tell them you can also set boundaries. And again, I don't say leave everybody else in the shed, but if you set boundaries and you have a bit more breathing room in the clinic, you can actually help others out as well.
Better than if you're up to here with cases because you're incapable of saying no. So this episode is a bit controversial because the way I'm putting it across, but it's just like, like, I mean, you either leave, right, and find somewhere else or become something else, or you stay.
Right, there's no in-between, and if you stay, you've got to work the system, you've got to work, you've got to use the tools, and you've got to find a way to have a joyful life as possible in the clinic while you're helping pets and their owners and, you know, being a support for your co-workers, and this is the best way of doing it.
And you can absolutely do it, you just need to manage your mind and have a lot of awareness about what's happening, what your brain is doing, and also, like I said in the beginning about, you know, our bodies, like, manage your nervous system as well, so breathing exercises.
make sure you move, make sure you, um… I don't know, I love yoga, I love meditation, I also do martial arts, because getting rid of that little bit of extra adrenaline is great as well. So, find out what works for you, and you know what, like, your life really matters. We only have one run at it, right? You know, the chances of you landing in this.
Gunila Pedersen14:05:13
meat suit, you know, on Earth, um, is like what? Like, one in a zillion. And you have one life, and letting it and spending it in this pettiness of, like, whatever management has got going on when they're not a good management is just not a way to live your life. So if you want to decide to stay.
stay, by all means, you know, if it's paid well, and it's, like, next door to where you live, and you can pick your kid up after school because of it. Like, stay, but learn how to live joyfully while you do it, right? It comes back to, you know, I talked about.
A long time ago I worked in a shift where I worked with this veterinary nurse and she helped out in this orphanage in Africa and there were women with AIDS, you know, HIV-positive women would come and have.
give birth in this place, and the kids… the babies coming out were all premature, and they didn't have incubators, they didn't have anything, and if they'd been born in Europe, they would have been perfectly okay, and become babies and become humans, but these were too small and too tiny, and they didn't have the structure of.
the infrastructure to help these babies. So they just had to carry them inside their shirts, inside their bras. The women would just abandon them and walk around them until they died. And that was, to me, I'm sorry if this is triggering, if anything like this has happened to you, you lost a child or something, but it just puts into perspective that.
Even when the situation is not ideal.
We can do what we can, you know, to help everybody out within.
The badness, right, and of course it's unfair and of course it's horrible, but what could you, what could, what can you do for that little, little baby, that way you can carry it, you know, near your heart and you can let them pass peacefully, you know, feeling warm and hearing the heartbeat of a mom, right.
And we can do that or we can argue all day, well, there should be incubators in this place and they should have other medical and the women should never, and so on and so on. We can argue all day, but that was the reality she was living, you know, and she found a way, the best way to help she could and managed to live with it, you know. So that's like a super extreme case, like, and we're talking about bad management in the veterinary clinic. You can learn to manage your mind around it and you can learn to be joyful, or if not, you can learn.
to coach yourself, and learn about your priorities, and find the good reasons to leave or to stay, and you can also leave and be perfectly happy. But you've got a choice, you've got autonomy, and you've got…
your own life to lead, that you have to lead the best way possible, because this is… there's no rehearsal here, right? This is one life only, so get the most out of it. Um…
so much love for you I really enjoy having you on the podcast as in I really enjoyed recording this for you I really enjoyed being back what I'm trying to say I really enjoyed recording again my podcast after my little break uh during the summer I really enjoyed having that time off and finding myself and finding what I want to do and I really enjoyed reconfirming that this is what I want to do and this is why I created the thriving vet Collective and I.
so invite you to come, and if you're fast, you can get in at Founders Rate, and I'll put the link in the show notes below, and I also put the link in for…
the webinar coming up, Boundaries, which is happening in October, and which is $25, but it's free if you're in the collective. Alright, that was a lot of information. Take care. Bye.
