Well Grounded
Step into a world of meaningful conversations and heartfelt stories with lifelong friends, Diane and Leigh Ann on the Well Grounded Podcast!
Join us as we navigate the joys and challenges of life, parenting, and friendship, sharing our experiences and insights with honesty and humor. From laughter to tears, each episode promises to leave you feeling uplifted and inspired.
Grab your coffee and join the conversation! Subscribe now for your weekly dose of wisdom and encouragement.
Well Grounded
GOOD Grief - Seeing Beauty From Ashes With Special Guest Cathy
TW: Loss of a child, addiction, alcoholism, loss of a parent
In this week’s episode, hosts Diane and Leigh Ann are joined by guest Cathy Sullivan as they dive into the topic of grief. Cathy bravely shares the story of her eldest son Chris who struggled with alcohol addiction, and tragically passed in November 2024. While we don’t always understand how God is good in the hard, this story from Cathy will bring us encouragement even in our grief, reminding us that His ways are not our ways. Make sure you grab a box of tissues with your favorite cup of coffee as we share this week’s episode.
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Latte Moment Recipe: Iced Blueberry Latte
Verse of Encouragement: Psalm 30:4-5
Season 3 Theme Verse: Romans 8:28
Joy in the Morning - Tauren Wells, Elevation Worship
A Grace Disguised Revised and Expanded: How the Soul Grows through Loss by Jerry L. Sittser
Follow us on Instagram: instagram.com/wellgroundedpodcast
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Subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite listening platform to be a part of our community and help others discover the joy of living a well-grounded life:
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Never give up when it feels hopeless, when you feel like,
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oh yeah, we've been here, done that.
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Never give up. If you are praying for the will of God,
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keep praying and know
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that it may not be the answer may not be
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what you are looking for.
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I was looking for healing here. Yeah. Right.
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And a long life with him here, here.
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And God said, I'm gonna answer your prayer,
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but it's, you know, this is how it's gonna look me.
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Yeah. It's gonna be different than you think, right? Yeah.
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So I would always say that's to anybody struggling.
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Don't give up. Don't give up.
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I love that.
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Welcome, welcome to the Well-Grounded podcast. I am Diane,
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And I am Leanne.
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And we are two lifelong friends sharing life over coffee
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and conversations, and we are so excited
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to be back in the studio, ready
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to bring you this next episode.
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And before that, we just kinda wanted
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to say hi to each other.
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We haven't seen each other for a little bit. I know.
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And it's, this episode's coming out while I'm
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on vacation at the beach.
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So definitely, definitely, uh,
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be texting pictures of that for sure.
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And sharing. So this is summer. Yes.
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And our schedules are wild at times, but all, um, all good.
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Yes. All good. All good. All things good. For sure.
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It's so fun. You know, I think
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whenever summer does come about, it's just neat to,
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you know, your routine is different Right.
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And you just can go and do some different things. Right.
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You know, we're very busy the school year,
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whether you're have kids in school or not.
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You're kind of still in that, you know, cyclical time of,
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um, August through June, I guess.
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And, uh, and so it's, it's just a lot of fun
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to have a good summer break.
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And a lot of our episodes have, um,
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because of that, our summer schedule, we, we have
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that variety like Summer of four J Yeah.
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And so we're, we're kind of seeing that today with Yeah.
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With our conversation today.
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Um, it's a little bit, um,
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if you've watched all the episodes in season three,
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you know, that we've had sort
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of a bittersweet season, right?
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Yeah. We've talked about some really hard things.
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We've talked about, um, how God is working in the hard Yeah.
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We've talked about, um, some really silly things
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that are going on in mine
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and Diane's life as maybe a coping, maybe it's a
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Little bit of, of Therapy for us.
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A little Holy Spirit therapy. Yeah. But, um, but yeah.
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So we are, um, just right in the throes of this. Mm-hmm.
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It's been a beautiful time to see God working Yeah.
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To see him weave together. Yes.
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Much just like Romans 8 28 says mm-hmm.
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That he is working all of these things together. Yes.
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He's good. Yeah. We've established that. Yes.
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Start with season three, episode one, one. Yes.
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If you need a refresher, um, the goodness of God Yeah.
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Is very real. And we, we have to come
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to him rather than him becoming like us.
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Yes. We want to be more godly. Yes.
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He is not, you know. Yeah.
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Um, and I just, you know, for those listeners
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who might be new today, I just want to kind
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of run down our little laundry list of things to make sure
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that you know where to find us.
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Right. You can find us on Instagram at Well-Grounded
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Podcast, and we're also on Facebook
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and TikTok is new, so
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that's something we've added this summer.
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Amazing. Thank you to my college daughter. Amazing.
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And so she is putting us out there and, uh,
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but you can connect with us in between episodes.
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We wanna hear from you, you know, DM us, um,
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send us questions, send us comments, let us know
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how you like those latte moments.
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I, um, and the different coffee, if you tried
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Any of them, If you tried them for sure.
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You know, but like, subscribe, share, you know,
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we wanna reach more people with this podcast so
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that we can just bring that encouragement
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to anyone and everyone.
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And so some, sometimes it's hard.
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Um, you know, it's, it's hard
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to get out there in, in the airwaves.
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So, you know, maybe just give us a like, and a,
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and a share. That'd be great. Yes,
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Yes, yes. And comments
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we'd love to hear from you.
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Um, well, speaking of latte moments. Yes.
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This looks delicious. I have not tried it yet.
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So if you are new to season three,
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I have totally up my game.
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She really has, like, there's like, we went
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From very simple like coffee drinks last season
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to like these, I like actually made the simple syrup
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for today, which goes toward, this is ice,
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this is next level blueberry latte.
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I'm trying. So kind of an ode to July
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and July 4th and things.
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Um, it has in there. It's not very many ingredients.
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Oh my goodness. So again, if you're new to us,
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you're gonna know, my God, coffee drinks have
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to be simplistic, um, or store-bought.
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So, but these, um, so you can make a blueberry syrup
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or you can actually buy it,
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but you're gonna have so good,
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basically I used blueberry juice sugar,
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and you just put that on the stove top December.
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It's very sweet. And that makes it, it is very
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Refreshing and sweet.
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Yes. How about 4th of July with this, I
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Know with the blueberries. Right.
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And you could add raspberries to the top too.
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Oh, you could just be very cool. Cool with that. Very.
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Um, and then you just, when you make it, uh,
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you're just adding the blueberry syrup first,
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then you add a milk of your choice.
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I used almond milk today,
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and then you add your coffee on top, and that's it.
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I use blueberries for garnish and ice.
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It's gorgeous. And there you go. So
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Is there something about just putting fresh fruit in?
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I know any beverage that really elevates it a little bit.
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Yes, it's very fun. It's a very fun thing.
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So it's something different, actually.
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Um, when I looked up summer coffee drinks, this came up, um,
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because it's summer and it's fun.
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And I think it's the fruit. Yeah. The fruit flavor. Love it.
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But I guess there's a trend right now
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for blueberry lattes that it's very fun.
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Oh, nice. It's very trendy. We could,
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we could go viral on this one. Maybe we're,
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This is it, this is our secret.
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This is it. This is it. If the blueberry
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latte isn't missing thing,
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It could go big For us.
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The world sick.
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Well, I am so excited about today.
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And, um, you know, even though I know today's subject is,
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is gonna be hard for a lot of people mm-hmm.
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Um, I know that God works right
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In the good. Right.
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And I've seen it in my Life. Mm-hmm. I have
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Seen it in my mom.
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I have seen it in my children. Mm-hmm.
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And so today I just know it's gonna be a great,
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great source of encouragement. So. That's right. That's
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Right. And
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you've seen from the topic, if you're watching
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on YouTube or on Spotify today
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or on Apple podcasts, you've seen from the topic
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that we are addressing the topic of grief today.
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And because we know God,
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because we know, um,
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and we've walked with him for many years, we know that how
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we don't have to understand, to know that God is God,
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that he is on the throne, and that, um,
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even grief can be made good.
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Mm-hmm. And I say that as I introduce my precious friend
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Kathy is here with us today. Kathy Sullivan.
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You so welcome. Welcome. Thank you for having me.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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This is a fresh story. It
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Is. You're walking through
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it right now.
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This is not from years ago. No.
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So this is summer and
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So, and it was in November.
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It was in November, yeah. That you lost your son. Mm-hmm.
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And we are going to just give a little bit of background,
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and then we just wanna let you share Yeah.
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And we're gonna try not to interrupt you.
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We don't have a great reputation for
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That. Yeah. Right. But we,
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we want
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to be good, good at it. We have really a firm team.
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Today's the day. I believe it. Okay.
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So, um, tell us a little bit about you
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and your precious Kent.
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Um, Kent and I have been married almost 54 years.
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Wow. Amazing. Awesome.
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We have, um, five adult children
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and 14 grandchildren.
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Oh, that's Beautiful. And two great grands. Oh,
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beautiful.
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Oh, That's gener generations. Yes. We love it here.
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So we are a full group.
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Um, we all, well, all of my children
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live within three miles of us.
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Wow. Love it. So my middle daughter
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and my newest grandchild live three miles away.
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Oh. Everybody else lives within a block. Wow.
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So we're together a lot, uh,
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like every week, more than once.
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Spend a lot of time together. Really enjoy.
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That's beautiful. Each other's company.
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It is, you know, it is chaos most of the time,
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but it's a real blessed chaos.
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Yeah. Blessed chaos. There you go. I like that. I just
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Really quickly, did y'all set out
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to have this commune going on?
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Or was this something that just sort
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of evolved over time with Well,
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You know, we kind of stumbled across it when we were
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looking for a place to buy a lot, to build a house,
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what we found was these three lots
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that were really close together.
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Oh. And we asked our adult kids,
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we don't know if you wanna live
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that close to us, but, you know,
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What do you think? Yeah. Oh,
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I love it. And so we bought
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all three lots at the same time,
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and all three houses were in con
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under construction at the same time.
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Oh my goodness. And then, uh, our youngest daughter,
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she and her husband bought the house next door to my son.
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So then,
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So you kept it going. So now
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We have four houses. Oh,
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wow. And, and my granddaughter, who is the mom
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of my great-grands, she
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and her husband are building a little house in the backyard
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of my daughter and son-in-law.
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Oh, love it. So love
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It. This is the dream.
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Seriously. Little commune. It's to my family.
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Are you listening to this? Yeah. Right.
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Look how, look how precious this is. Yeah. Okay.
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That's beautiful. That's awesome. That's
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Awesome. Well, God obviously
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had a purpose in all of that,
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and so that's just truly remarkable. Really.
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00:09:20.145 --> 00:09:21.845
And I feel blessed, and I tell them all the time,
242
00:09:22.005 --> 00:09:23.605
I know you can change this anytime.
243
00:09:24.075 --> 00:09:25.485
Yeah. As long as you let me have it,
244
00:09:25.545 --> 00:09:27.325
I'm just gonna relish in it. Yeah, that's right.
245
00:09:27.475 --> 00:09:30.565
Nice. That's so great. What a great testimony to that.
246
00:09:30.625 --> 00:09:31.965
For sure. That's great.
247
00:09:32.545 --> 00:09:34.805
So why, um,
248
00:09:35.745 --> 00:09:37.805
why are you our guest on grief?
249
00:09:39.665 --> 00:09:43.135
Um, do you want me to tell my whole story now? Whenever?
250
00:09:43.235 --> 00:09:44.335
Am we going into my whole story?
251
00:09:44.555 --> 00:09:46.415
If you, if you want to, yeah. Yeah. Okay.
252
00:09:46.415 --> 00:09:47.495
You're ready. So my, you
253
00:09:47.495 --> 00:09:48.495
Can talk about anything you want.
254
00:09:48.995 --> 00:09:53.175
Um, our, our children range in age from, um, 53
255
00:09:54.205 --> 00:09:56.055
down to 44.
256
00:09:57.075 --> 00:10:01.615
And, um, our oldest was Chris. He's, he would be 53 now.
257
00:10:02.235 --> 00:10:04.535
Um, and he, uh, he died in November.
258
00:10:05.115 --> 00:10:09.695
And it was, uh, it's been a long hard journey
259
00:10:09.965 --> 00:10:14.695
with Chris, um, because I know this is about grief,
260
00:10:14.715 --> 00:10:15.895
but I'm afraid it's gonna be a
261
00:10:15.895 --> 00:10:17.375
little bit about addiction also. No,
262
00:10:17.395 --> 00:10:18.395
That's great. Yeah. Because that's,
263
00:10:18.395 --> 00:10:20.015
that there's grief in that for
264
00:10:20.015 --> 00:10:21.015
Sure. That kind of
265
00:10:21.015 --> 00:10:21.935
the deal.
266
00:10:22.175 --> 00:10:26.055
I mean, he was, um, he was lighthearted, he was fun loving.
267
00:10:26.355 --> 00:10:30.415
He was, uh, really kind of focused.
268
00:10:30.715 --> 00:10:33.935
Um, he loved taking things apart, figuring out
269
00:10:33.935 --> 00:10:35.495
how they worked, putting them back together.
270
00:10:35.725 --> 00:10:37.935
Like he was that kind of kid.
271
00:10:38.235 --> 00:10:40.895
Um, and, and that's how his mind worked.
272
00:10:40.915 --> 00:10:43.775
It was, you know, analyzing and processing and evaluating.
273
00:10:44.475 --> 00:10:46.375
And that just kind of became
274
00:10:46.675 --> 00:10:49.135
how God worked in him in terms of his career.
275
00:10:50.395 --> 00:10:52.775
Um, and then, uh, that we,
276
00:10:52.775 --> 00:10:54.335
we lived in Nebraska at that time.
277
00:10:54.835 --> 00:10:58.695
Um, and we moved to Florida, not intending to move
278
00:10:58.695 --> 00:11:00.775
to Florida, but we actually moved into a motor home.
279
00:11:00.775 --> 00:11:01.935
We had four children at the time.
280
00:11:02.585 --> 00:11:05.535
Moved into a motor home, traveled for six months. Wow.
281
00:11:05.785 --> 00:11:06.975
Ended up here. Yeah.
282
00:11:07.835 --> 00:11:08.835
Wow. Weaved Your way
283
00:11:08.835 --> 00:11:09.615
and landed, this Is where
284
00:11:09.615 --> 00:11:10.975
landed this and that. Yeah. Landed
285
00:11:10.975 --> 00:11:11.975
In Florida. Um, and,
286
00:11:11.975 --> 00:11:14.655
and Chris loved life in Florida.
287
00:11:14.835 --> 00:11:16.095
He was involved in our church.
288
00:11:16.195 --> 00:11:19.535
He was involved in youth group. He went to Awana.
289
00:11:20.435 --> 00:11:23.015
Um, and really at that point,
290
00:11:23.015 --> 00:11:24.295
we lived next door to the church.
291
00:11:24.755 --> 00:11:27.015
We were very involved. Life was good.
292
00:11:27.755 --> 00:11:29.855
Um, we were homeschooling,
293
00:11:29.855 --> 00:11:32.735
we were like pioneer homeschoolers at that point.
294
00:11:32.755 --> 00:11:34.975
Oh yeah. That was very unusual then. Yeah.
295
00:11:35.595 --> 00:11:38.095
And then, um, when Chris really,
296
00:11:38.315 --> 00:11:42.175
before he turned 15, there was a little, you know, just kind
297
00:11:42.175 --> 00:11:44.695
of odd stuff that we just didn't, couldn't quite figure out.
298
00:11:44.865 --> 00:11:47.735
There were things I, I believe in his young life
299
00:11:47.765 --> 00:11:50.655
that affected him that we weren't aware of at the time.
300
00:11:51.715 --> 00:11:55.565
Um, but when he turned 15, he, he turned surly,
301
00:11:55.665 --> 00:11:58.245
and pretty quickly he turned rebellious.
302
00:11:59.505 --> 00:12:02.405
And, uh, and it was rough.
303
00:12:02.745 --> 00:12:06.925
Um, he, he was in juvenile detention twice.
304
00:12:07.185 --> 00:12:08.645
We went to court a number of times.
305
00:12:08.945 --> 00:12:12.485
He was in the Orange County jail twice. Wow.
306
00:12:12.665 --> 00:12:15.605
For long periods of times. We went to the jail and visited.
307
00:12:15.825 --> 00:12:20.325
And, um, so, you know, that was kind of the beginning
308
00:12:20.705 --> 00:12:23.365
of real heartbreak when he was 17,
309
00:12:23.705 --> 00:12:27.285
is when he really left home, um, for about 10 years.
310
00:12:27.945 --> 00:12:31.845
We, we really, we heard very little of him. Wow.
311
00:12:32.065 --> 00:12:33.885
Um, we didn't know where he was living.
312
00:12:33.985 --> 00:12:35.165
We didn't know if he was working.
313
00:12:36.185 --> 00:12:37.845
You know, we, we just had little,
314
00:12:37.845 --> 00:12:40.765
every once in a while he'd show up and then he'd be gone.
315
00:12:40.945 --> 00:12:43.485
And we just didn't know much of anything. Wow.
316
00:12:44.225 --> 00:12:47.285
Um, during that period of time,
317
00:12:48.425 --> 00:12:49.805
he had become an alcoholic.
318
00:12:50.185 --> 00:12:52.685
Um, so when he did come back to the family,
319
00:12:53.665 --> 00:12:54.885
he was almost always drinking.
320
00:12:55.665 --> 00:12:59.365
Um, and we were really concerned about that.
321
00:12:59.665 --> 00:13:02.885
Um, he, he was hospitalized several times
322
00:13:02.995 --> 00:13:06.485
with alcohol poisoning and other alcohol related injuries.
323
00:13:06.665 --> 00:13:08.325
That's when we would find out where he was.
324
00:13:08.565 --> 00:13:11.165
'cause we'd get a call and we would go to the hospital.
325
00:13:11.625 --> 00:13:16.525
Um, uh, we would try
326
00:13:17.185 --> 00:13:18.885
all the time to convince him that,
327
00:13:19.195 --> 00:13:21.325
that his life needs, his lifestyle needs to change.
328
00:13:21.355 --> 00:13:23.205
Like, this is gonna kill you.
329
00:13:24.105 --> 00:13:27.325
Um, and about 20 years ago, he was diagnosed with cirrhosis.
330
00:13:27.545 --> 00:13:30.285
Wow. So at that point, he was in his thirties. Wow.
331
00:13:30.385 --> 00:13:33.005
And they were saying, nobody gets cirrhosis this young.
332
00:13:33.565 --> 00:13:35.925
I mean, this just doesn't happen, but this is serious.
333
00:13:36.225 --> 00:13:38.005
And if you keep drinking, it'll kill you.
334
00:13:38.745 --> 00:13:42.205
And so for six months, he didn't drink for six months.
335
00:13:42.985 --> 00:13:44.245
And at the end of six months,
336
00:13:44.595 --> 00:13:46.805
they had arranged at the hospital that once he was dry
337
00:13:46.805 --> 00:13:49.245
for six months, they were gonna do a liver biopsy.
338
00:13:49.745 --> 00:13:52.765
Oh. So, and see if things changed. Yes. Okay.
339
00:13:52.865 --> 00:13:54.205
And how serious they were. Oh, okay.
340
00:13:54.365 --> 00:13:56.325
'cause they had already decided this is cirrhosis
341
00:13:56.545 --> 00:13:58.045
and you know, really, what are we gonna do?
342
00:13:58.155 --> 00:14:00.405
Yeah. Um, so he had blood,
343
00:14:00.495 --> 00:14:02.485
blood work done a week before that appointment.
344
00:14:02.485 --> 00:14:05.485
And when he went to the appointment, the doctor said,
345
00:14:06.295 --> 00:14:09.205
we're not gonna do the biopsy
346
00:14:09.795 --> 00:14:11.765
because your blood work says you
347
00:14:11.765 --> 00:14:12.925
have a completely healthy liver.
348
00:14:13.625 --> 00:14:15.965
Wow. So if we did the biopsy, we'd be cutting into a healthy
349
00:14:15.965 --> 00:14:18.005
liver, and we're not gonna do that.
350
00:14:18.865 --> 00:14:21.045
And he called me on the way from home from that appointment,
351
00:14:21.345 --> 00:14:25.085
and he said, so God obviously has cured me.
352
00:14:25.105 --> 00:14:27.125
The doctor said, we have no explanation for this. Sure.
353
00:14:27.125 --> 00:14:28.965
Like, cirrhosis doesn't go away. Yeah.
354
00:14:29.395 --> 00:14:30.485
Once you have it, you have it.
355
00:14:31.105 --> 00:14:34.245
And he just said, I, I can't, I can't tell you why. Yeah.
356
00:14:34.565 --> 00:14:35.605
I can just tell you. It's,
357
00:14:35.835 --> 00:14:37.205
it's not there by your blood work.
358
00:14:37.305 --> 00:14:40.365
Wow. Wow. And Chris said, I powerful. God healed me.
359
00:14:40.485 --> 00:14:41.725
I know he did. Yeah. And I know he did,
360
00:14:41.725 --> 00:14:43.565
because you guys are praying and the people at the church
361
00:14:43.565 --> 00:14:45.925
are praying and, you know, thank you for that.
362
00:14:46.065 --> 00:14:48.325
He gave God the credit He did for that. Yes, he did.
363
00:14:48.385 --> 00:14:50.645
And he, and he had accepted, he had a walk with the Lord.
364
00:14:50.705 --> 00:14:53.085
Yes. He had accepted Christ as a savior when he was five.
365
00:14:54.025 --> 00:14:57.965
And really, all of his early life was indicative
366
00:14:57.965 --> 00:14:59.405
of his relationship with the Lord.
367
00:14:59.545 --> 00:15:03.725
So even though he had really strayed, I still kind
368
00:15:03.725 --> 00:15:04.805
of prayed.
369
00:15:04.805 --> 00:15:07.365
Yeah. For God Yeah. To bring him back.
370
00:15:07.535 --> 00:15:10.835
There were a lot of nights were, you know,
371
00:15:10.875 --> 00:15:12.075
I didn't know if he was indoors.
372
00:15:12.075 --> 00:15:14.955
Yeah. I didn't know it's raining, you know. Yeah.
373
00:15:15.005 --> 00:15:19.075
We're, and I prayed that God would call to his mind songs
374
00:15:19.075 --> 00:15:20.835
that he had heard learned in Sunday school
375
00:15:21.175 --> 00:15:22.995
and scriptures that he had learned in Awana.
376
00:15:23.025 --> 00:15:26.475
Yeah. And would just be present and draw him. Mm-hmm.
377
00:15:26.475 --> 00:15:28.515
That, that's, that was the only thing I knew to pray.
378
00:15:28.615 --> 00:15:31.475
So that's kind of where my prayer life went.
379
00:15:32.615 --> 00:15:33.795
Um, but
380
00:15:33.795 --> 00:15:38.075
after this like, amazing healing moment, um,
381
00:15:38.135 --> 00:15:41.675
it wasn't too long before he was, he was drinking again.
382
00:15:41.775 --> 00:15:42.995
Mm-hmm. And,
383
00:15:43.335 --> 00:15:45.995
and then he was gone again, you know, when he's drinking.
384
00:15:46.175 --> 00:15:49.235
We did not hear from him much at all.
385
00:15:50.215 --> 00:15:54.195
Um, and then in 2010, he came to us
386
00:15:54.495 --> 00:15:57.955
and said he had been living in an apartment near downtown.
387
00:15:57.975 --> 00:16:01.675
And he said, I have been trying to drink myself to death.
388
00:16:02.095 --> 00:16:05.075
He said, I keep Oh wow. Drinking until I pass out.
389
00:16:05.295 --> 00:16:08.075
And the last thing I remember thinking is, okay,
390
00:16:08.095 --> 00:16:09.275
I'm not gonna wake up from this.
391
00:16:09.415 --> 00:16:12.195
And then I wake up. Oh, goodness.
392
00:16:12.255 --> 00:16:14.955
And I think God's ne not gonna let me die this way. Wow.
393
00:16:15.535 --> 00:16:18.355
So I guess I need to stop drinking, but I can't.
394
00:16:18.535 --> 00:16:21.555
So would you help? So we got him into a program
395
00:16:21.665 --> 00:16:23.275
that was a year and a half long.
396
00:16:23.275 --> 00:16:25.595
He went through the whole program. He did great.
397
00:16:26.215 --> 00:16:28.715
Um, but what we didn't know going in was
398
00:16:28.715 --> 00:16:32.235
that they were not a program that gave really good tools
399
00:16:32.495 --> 00:16:36.075
for him to be able to, you know, continue Yeah.
400
00:16:36.075 --> 00:16:38.435
To, to, to really get to sobriety. Yeah.
401
00:16:38.495 --> 00:16:41.555
So he got dry, but he didn't really
402
00:16:41.575 --> 00:16:42.675
get big distinction there.
403
00:16:42.765 --> 00:16:44.875
Sober. Sober, yeah. But when he came out of
404
00:16:44.875 --> 00:16:46.115
that program, he got a job.
405
00:16:46.495 --> 00:16:50.435
Um, he, he was a master audio technician.
406
00:16:50.555 --> 00:16:53.155
I mean, he was superb. He was gifted.
407
00:16:54.015 --> 00:16:58.915
And so, and he had worked in audio visual off
408
00:16:58.915 --> 00:17:00.235
and on for all those years.
409
00:17:00.935 --> 00:17:03.355
So he went to Marco Island for this job.
410
00:17:03.455 --> 00:17:06.435
He was there for several years, got transferred back
411
00:17:06.435 --> 00:17:10.355
to Orlando, um, moved back into our home.
412
00:17:11.255 --> 00:17:11.475
Um,
413
00:17:12.655 --> 00:17:16.405
and Okay.
414
00:17:16.405 --> 00:17:18.645
Sorry. No, you're good. You're good. Oh.
415
00:17:20.055 --> 00:17:21.685
Moved back into our home, um,
416
00:17:21.945 --> 00:17:26.765
and was really dry for about six years.
417
00:17:26.865 --> 00:17:30.565
In 2014, he actually went on family vacation with us.
418
00:17:31.425 --> 00:17:33.845
Um, and that was great.
419
00:17:34.825 --> 00:17:38.445
Um, I know that during that time, he wasn't totally dry.
420
00:17:38.445 --> 00:17:40.045
He did drink from time to time,
421
00:17:40.065 --> 00:17:43.085
but he didn't, he didn't over consumed.
422
00:17:43.085 --> 00:17:44.845
Right. There was, yeah. Right.
423
00:17:44.945 --> 00:17:46.925
And I, I don't even mean that he didn't get drunk.
424
00:17:47.065 --> 00:17:49.045
I'm sure that he did, but he
425
00:17:50.105 --> 00:17:51.405
didn't destroy his life with it.
426
00:17:51.405 --> 00:17:54.045
Mm-hmm. Like mm-hmm. Was the still functioning typical still
427
00:17:54.385 --> 00:17:56.405
The family and able to be on the trip
428
00:17:56.625 --> 00:17:57.625
And, yeah.
429
00:17:58.065 --> 00:18:01.485
Um, so when we went on in 2014,
430
00:18:01.545 --> 00:18:03.245
we had a really great time.
431
00:18:03.305 --> 00:18:06.285
He helped to drive, you know, grandkids went with us.
432
00:18:06.285 --> 00:18:08.245
It was just really sweet.
433
00:18:09.225 --> 00:18:11.045
Um, and,
434
00:18:11.945 --> 00:18:13.805
and he was the most amazing employee
435
00:18:14.935 --> 00:18:16.925
until Drake got ahold of him again.
436
00:18:17.025 --> 00:18:20.485
And then he drank enough to lose that job, you know? Wow.
437
00:18:20.485 --> 00:18:21.725
Quit going to work. And Yeah.
438
00:18:22.305 --> 00:18:24.525
And, um, and then he was gone again
439
00:18:24.625 --> 00:18:25.885
for a long period of time.
440
00:18:26.425 --> 00:18:29.325
Um, we saw him again in 2020.
441
00:18:29.665 --> 00:18:31.245
Um, and again, he had hit bottom
442
00:18:31.865 --> 00:18:34.565
and asked again if we'd help get him into
443
00:18:34.615 --> 00:18:35.965
rehab, which we did.
444
00:18:36.345 --> 00:18:38.325
Um, it was a year long program.
445
00:18:38.585 --> 00:18:39.685
He stayed about eight months.
446
00:18:40.685 --> 00:18:42.885
Somebody that he met there, left the program.
447
00:18:43.945 --> 00:18:48.085
His deal was drugs. He overdosed on drugs and died. Oh, wow.
448
00:18:48.705 --> 00:18:52.685
And Chris in processing death, began to drink again.
449
00:18:53.905 --> 00:18:56.845
Um, and then was gone for months.
450
00:18:57.305 --> 00:18:59.525
Um, I do need to say this.
451
00:18:59.935 --> 00:19:02.685
Every time he came back to our home,
452
00:19:04.185 --> 00:19:05.685
we always let him move in.
453
00:19:05.825 --> 00:19:08.885
And we always said, this is the deal. You can't drink here.
454
00:19:08.885 --> 00:19:10.685
Mm-hmm. You're welcome to stay here.
455
00:19:10.825 --> 00:19:14.325
We love having you around. Yeah. We cannot, you're our son.
456
00:19:14.505 --> 00:19:17.565
Yes. Yes. But we can't facilitate your drinking
457
00:19:17.565 --> 00:19:19.325
because we know that it's killing you.
458
00:19:19.595 --> 00:19:21.005
Sure. And we can't do that.
459
00:19:21.905 --> 00:19:23.805
And so, you know, when he was at our house,
460
00:19:23.825 --> 00:19:26.205
for the most part, if he drank, he drank away from home.
461
00:19:27.225 --> 00:19:29.725
Um, but then we would discover
462
00:19:29.835 --> 00:19:31.205
that he was drinking in the house,
463
00:19:31.625 --> 00:19:34.045
and then we would have to insist that he'd leave.
464
00:19:34.115 --> 00:19:35.725
Yeah. And that was always really hard.
465
00:19:35.725 --> 00:19:36.885
That's because Oh, hard.
466
00:19:37.245 --> 00:19:39.405
I always knew, chances are he
467
00:19:39.405 --> 00:19:40.445
is gonna be living out of his car.
468
00:19:40.625 --> 00:19:42.845
You know, I, I I didn't, your choices
469
00:19:42.875 --> 00:19:43.875
Were terrible. Yeah. It
470
00:19:43.875 --> 00:19:45.405
was, all of your choices were terrible. Yes.
471
00:19:45.405 --> 00:19:47.125
It was like, we can't do anything
472
00:19:47.125 --> 00:19:48.125
that feels no good option.
473
00:19:48.195 --> 00:19:51.325
Good here. Yeah. But we knew we had told him,
474
00:19:51.385 --> 00:19:55.565
and we had to stand by that, that he, he couldn't live
475
00:19:55.565 --> 00:19:56.725
with us if he was gonna drink.
476
00:19:56.865 --> 00:20:00.365
So we insist that he leave again. Yeah.
477
00:20:01.065 --> 00:20:03.365
Um, so then after, uh,
478
00:20:04.015 --> 00:20:06.765
after he left that program, um,
479
00:20:07.305 --> 00:20:09.165
and then again was in a hotel
480
00:20:09.305 --> 00:20:12.645
and drinking long enough that the hotel manager called us
481
00:20:12.645 --> 00:20:13.805
and said, somebody's gotta come and get him.
482
00:20:14.105 --> 00:20:18.485
Wow. Um, then we brought him back again.
483
00:20:19.035 --> 00:20:21.285
This time he agreed to go to Salvation Army. Mm.
484
00:20:21.985 --> 00:20:25.255
Um, and it was the one we kept wanting him
485
00:20:25.255 --> 00:20:26.455
to get into all along,
486
00:20:26.955 --> 00:20:28.895
but that's the one he finally agreed to go to.
487
00:20:29.915 --> 00:20:31.015
And he had been there a month
488
00:20:31.235 --> 00:20:33.175
before we saw him, you know, the first time.
489
00:20:33.435 --> 00:20:35.375
And he said, now I know the difference
490
00:20:35.765 --> 00:20:39.495
between a faith-based program and a Christ-centered program.
491
00:20:40.155 --> 00:20:42.135
He said, these people are the real deal. Wow.
492
00:20:42.405 --> 00:20:45.295
They love Jesus first, and then they love us.
493
00:20:45.755 --> 00:20:47.885
And they are, you know, they're here
494
00:20:47.885 --> 00:20:50.845
because they really are committed Wow.
495
00:20:51.025 --> 00:20:56.005
To this. So in that program, he did business with God.
496
00:20:56.265 --> 00:20:58.725
You know, he, um, he experienced repentance
497
00:20:58.785 --> 00:21:01.245
and redemption and restoration.
498
00:21:01.305 --> 00:21:04.005
And we are so thankful for the Salvation Army. Yeah.
499
00:21:04.005 --> 00:21:08.885
Because it just was a redeeming thing in Chris's life.
500
00:21:09.115 --> 00:21:10.285
Yeah. Um,
501
00:21:10.705 --> 00:21:12.485
and we were as hopeful as we'd ever been in
502
00:21:12.485 --> 00:21:13.525
his whole adult life.
503
00:21:14.305 --> 00:21:17.605
Uh, but he still wasn't really quite done.
504
00:21:17.785 --> 00:21:20.525
You know, he, um, he still
505
00:21:22.195 --> 00:21:25.885
felt like he needed to make up to us for all
506
00:21:26.035 --> 00:21:27.405
that his addiction had cost us.
507
00:21:27.705 --> 00:21:29.125
He was striving all the time.
508
00:21:29.665 --> 00:21:32.525
He could not rest in, in forgiveness.
509
00:21:33.065 --> 00:21:37.165
And, you know, just accept that. Wow. It, it was good.
510
00:21:37.225 --> 00:21:38.765
We were good. And he didn't know anything,
511
00:21:38.985 --> 00:21:40.005
you know, he couldn't get to that.
512
00:21:41.345 --> 00:21:45.125
Um, so after the Salvation Army, he went to South Florida.
513
00:21:45.265 --> 00:21:49.365
He was there briefly, uh, for a job that didn't work out.
514
00:21:49.425 --> 00:21:52.325
And then in January, 2024, he moved back home.
515
00:21:53.905 --> 00:21:58.465
Um, he got a part-time job at the Hard Rock for,
516
00:21:58.565 --> 00:21:59.745
he worked there for nine months.
517
00:22:00.085 --> 00:22:01.865
He kept trying to find a full-time job.
518
00:22:02.165 --> 00:22:05.865
He would, he would interview, interview would go great.
519
00:22:05.865 --> 00:22:08.345
He'd get a second interview, then they'd give it to the,
520
00:22:08.495 --> 00:22:09.385
they were down to two,
521
00:22:09.405 --> 00:22:10.545
and they'd give it to the other person.
522
00:22:10.645 --> 00:22:13.265
And, and when that happened, the fifth time mm-hmm.
523
00:22:13.525 --> 00:22:16.825
He, he just, he just, just ultimate discouragement.
524
00:22:16.825 --> 00:22:18.945
He just discourage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
525
00:22:20.085 --> 00:22:21.425
And, and we talked to him
526
00:22:21.445 --> 00:22:24.865
and we said, you know, we had many conversations about God's
527
00:22:24.865 --> 00:22:26.705
timing, about God's goodness mm-hmm.
528
00:22:26.955 --> 00:22:28.265
About God's provision.
529
00:22:28.645 --> 00:22:31.825
Um, we reminded him that, you know, you can get to the point
530
00:22:31.825 --> 00:22:35.145
where this job that you're so looking for becomes an idol,
531
00:22:35.205 --> 00:22:36.345
and God isn't gonna do that.
532
00:22:36.375 --> 00:22:37.825
He's not gonna share that. You know.
533
00:22:38.925 --> 00:22:42.465
Um, but he, he started to drink again,
534
00:22:42.485 --> 00:22:44.505
and we had to ask him to leave again.
535
00:22:44.565 --> 00:22:47.825
Mm-hmm. So on November 5th, he left
536
00:22:47.845 --> 00:22:50.385
and went to an extended stay hotel here in Kissimmee.
537
00:22:51.365 --> 00:22:54.865
Um, he, the man never answered his phone, like ever. Yeah.
538
00:22:54.865 --> 00:22:56.425
But he would reply to my texts.
539
00:22:56.525 --> 00:22:58.585
So I texted him pretty much every day.
540
00:22:59.225 --> 00:23:00.425
I wanted to see where he was.
541
00:23:00.545 --> 00:23:01.505
I wanted to see if he was working.
542
00:23:01.625 --> 00:23:02.705
I wanted to see if he was okay.
543
00:23:03.135 --> 00:23:06.985
Most of the time. He didn't answer, um,
544
00:23:07.045 --> 00:23:09.065
on November 14th was my first answer.
545
00:23:09.125 --> 00:23:11.265
And he said, everything is good. Mm-hmm.
546
00:23:11.345 --> 00:23:13.825
And I knew that was not true. And then, um,
547
00:23:14.285 --> 00:23:18.425
on November 16th, he said, thanks to my,
548
00:23:19.205 --> 00:23:21.025
um, statement that we were praying for him.
549
00:23:21.965 --> 00:23:26.025
And then on November 22nd, he texted, you are a good mother
550
00:23:26.775 --> 00:23:27.785
with a wakey face.
551
00:23:29.645 --> 00:23:32.225
And then at seven 20 in the morning, on November 25th,
552
00:23:32.285 --> 00:23:35.665
he texted, I spent all my
553
00:23:35.665 --> 00:23:37.545
money, I lost my job.
554
00:23:39.035 --> 00:23:40.195
I need to check out today.
555
00:23:40.675 --> 00:23:43.035
I would like to come home for Thanksgiving,
556
00:23:43.615 --> 00:23:45.925
and I'll go back to the Salvation Army on Friday.
557
00:23:48.865 --> 00:23:52.005
So I responded that that was a good plan to get to a point
558
00:23:52.005 --> 00:23:54.365
of sobriety that could last the rest of his life,
559
00:23:55.345 --> 00:23:57.285
and that we would do anything we
560
00:23:57.285 --> 00:23:58.445
could to help him on that path.
561
00:23:59.805 --> 00:24:03.965
I said, one thing that never changes is that we love you
562
00:24:03.965 --> 00:24:05.885
and we want the best for you, so come home.
563
00:24:06.075 --> 00:24:08.845
Yeah. And we will work on this together.
564
00:24:10.705 --> 00:24:14.245
And he packed his car and he left the hotel and hit it home.
565
00:24:14.425 --> 00:24:19.045
And at 1115, he was in an accident
566
00:24:19.045 --> 00:24:20.845
that we still don't really fully understand,
567
00:24:20.865 --> 00:24:22.765
but he lost control of his car.
568
00:24:23.145 --> 00:24:26.085
It went through a six foot fence and into a retention pond,
569
00:24:26.785 --> 00:24:29.045
and sunk immediately, and he drowned.
570
00:24:29.385 --> 00:24:32.845
Wow. So we thought he was coming home,
571
00:24:33.835 --> 00:24:35.085
literally on the way home.
572
00:24:35.305 --> 00:24:37.445
But yeah, God reached into that water
573
00:24:37.545 --> 00:24:40.565
and took him by the hand and lifted him out,
574
00:24:40.685 --> 00:24:42.525
and took him really and truly home.
575
00:24:44.945 --> 00:24:49.365
And I'll just say, this is the way God has dealt with us.
576
00:24:49.395 --> 00:24:50.485
Yeah. Minister to us.
577
00:24:50.705 --> 00:24:54.765
Um, that morning in my, in my Bible reading, I was reading,
578
00:24:54.985 --> 00:24:59.965
um, I was doing a consecutive, is that what it's called?
579
00:24:59.965 --> 00:25:02.005
Chronological. Oh, yeah. Reading of scripture.
580
00:25:02.185 --> 00:25:04.485
So I, I was in the New Testament in the gospels,
581
00:25:04.505 --> 00:25:06.165
and so you're reading the same
582
00:25:06.165 --> 00:25:07.445
stories like three different times.
583
00:25:07.545 --> 00:25:09.885
Oh, yeah. 'cause you know, you're all three gospels. Yeah.
584
00:25:10.185 --> 00:25:14.765
And, and it happened to be a place where Jesus speaks a word
585
00:25:14.905 --> 00:25:17.325
and demons are cast out or touches somebody,
586
00:25:17.325 --> 00:25:18.845
and they're immediately healed.
587
00:25:19.825 --> 00:25:21.605
And I just kind of complained to the Lord,
588
00:25:21.865 --> 00:25:25.005
and I just said, this is, this is not helpful to me
589
00:25:25.005 --> 00:25:29.805
because this reminder that you can, with a touch
590
00:25:29.865 --> 00:25:34.005
or a word completely heal somebody just causes me
591
00:25:34.885 --> 00:25:37.765
angst over why, why not Chris,
592
00:25:38.225 --> 00:25:39.845
we have prayed for this for years.
593
00:25:40.305 --> 00:25:41.365
Why not? Yeah.
594
00:25:42.505 --> 00:25:46.445
And when I got that call that he had died from Kent,
595
00:25:46.525 --> 00:25:48.005
I was at work and I drove home,
596
00:25:48.065 --> 00:25:51.765
and in the car, I was just weeping on my way home.
597
00:25:52.185 --> 00:25:54.245
And I don't even remember praying, honestly,
598
00:25:55.065 --> 00:25:58.525
but I know that the Lord just kind of spoke into my spirit.
599
00:25:59.085 --> 00:26:01.845
I touched him and he was healed. Wow.
600
00:26:03.305 --> 00:26:07.285
And I just thought, oh, how sweet to answer that cry
601
00:26:07.285 --> 00:26:08.845
of my heart that just happened this morning.
602
00:26:09.075 --> 00:26:11.045
Sure. Right. And obviously God knew this is
603
00:26:11.045 --> 00:26:12.205
where we were gonna be, you know?
604
00:26:12.205 --> 00:26:16.045
Yeah. But it was just a precious thing.
605
00:26:16.265 --> 00:26:20.085
And then, and then my husband was laying on our bed
606
00:26:20.225 --> 00:26:24.045
and just weeping over the loss of this son of ours
607
00:26:24.045 --> 00:26:27.485
who had lived most of his adult life in wayward living.
608
00:26:27.795 --> 00:26:29.845
Yeah. And he said,
609
00:26:30.385 --> 00:26:33.565
God just gave me a picture of,
610
00:26:33.785 --> 00:26:35.845
of the prodigal son coming home
611
00:26:36.545 --> 00:26:40.325
and the father running to meet him and restore
612
00:26:40.505 --> 00:26:44.005
and renew everything that had been broken in his life.
613
00:26:45.385 --> 00:26:49.725
So we just were able together to say,
614
00:26:50.385 --> 00:26:52.245
in the midst of all of this, yeah.
615
00:26:52.705 --> 00:26:54.725
God is good.
616
00:26:54.825 --> 00:26:57.165
And he's about redeeming and restoring,
617
00:26:57.185 --> 00:26:58.965
and, you know, this is, yeah.
618
00:26:58.965 --> 00:27:00.565
It's the Ultimate restoration.
619
00:27:00.615 --> 00:27:02.965
Right. This is where we live, you know? Right.
620
00:27:03.465 --> 00:27:07.325
So I'll never stop missing his presence, you know,
621
00:27:07.705 --> 00:27:10.325
but not for a moment would we wish him back here.
622
00:27:10.335 --> 00:27:13.165
Right. Because he's finally at peace. He's
623
00:27:13.165 --> 00:27:14.645
The only, he Resting.
624
00:27:15.145 --> 00:27:18.965
He has four grandparents who went ahead of him, prayed
625
00:27:18.965 --> 00:27:21.325
for him his whole life, and we just, you know,
626
00:27:21.805 --> 00:27:24.645
I could imagine them greeting him when he arrived
627
00:27:24.865 --> 00:27:28.045
and, you know, Jesus first and then grandparents. Yeah.
628
00:27:28.505 --> 00:27:30.325
Oh yeah. Yeah. Wow.
629
00:27:30.395 --> 00:27:32.245
It's an incredible story of,
630
00:27:32.945 --> 00:27:35.085
but I just love to hear the way, you know,
631
00:27:35.085 --> 00:27:37.125
and I've not actually heard you share everything.
632
00:27:37.235 --> 00:27:40.245
I've known more bits and pieces from Leanne and things,
633
00:27:40.345 --> 00:27:42.885
but just to realize that
634
00:27:45.165 --> 00:27:47.055
when, especially as a parent
635
00:27:48.315 --> 00:27:53.255
and, you know, you try to, to be there for your children,
636
00:27:53.395 --> 00:27:56.335
any which way, um, the good, the bad, the ugly,
637
00:27:56.915 --> 00:27:58.695
the sad, you know, all of it.
638
00:27:59.035 --> 00:28:03.335
And, you know, just to, just to be able to say at the end
639
00:28:03.805 --> 00:28:05.695
that despite all of that,
640
00:28:05.755 --> 00:28:09.495
and despite everything that God is good, um,
641
00:28:09.835 --> 00:28:11.975
is just kind of mind blowing.
642
00:28:12.525 --> 00:28:13.855
It's, it's beautiful.
643
00:28:14.355 --> 00:28:16.055
And it's kind of crazy to use
644
00:28:16.055 --> 00:28:18.495
that word when you're talking about something
645
00:28:18.555 --> 00:28:20.055
so deep and hard.
646
00:28:20.675 --> 00:28:23.055
Um, but it is, it's kind of that, that beauty
647
00:28:23.085 --> 00:28:25.975
that rises from ashes that God gives us. Well,
648
00:28:25.975 --> 00:28:28.495
And really, I do wonder people who don't have
649
00:28:28.495 --> 00:28:30.495
that understanding of the goodness
650
00:28:30.495 --> 00:28:31.935
of God, I don't know how you survived this.
651
00:28:31.945 --> 00:28:33.815
Right. I don't know. I mean, yeah.
652
00:28:33.995 --> 00:28:35.655
It would've ruined us. Sure.
653
00:28:36.045 --> 00:28:39.175
Yeah. I Mean, you would've felt just as lost
654
00:28:39.235 --> 00:28:40.375
as he did sometimes.
655
00:28:40.375 --> 00:28:42.495
Oh, yeah. You know, always with that,
656
00:28:43.455 --> 00:28:47.695
I just keep thinking, this is now my third time
657
00:28:48.035 --> 00:28:50.415
to hear this.
658
00:28:51.665 --> 00:28:55.215
First of all, thank you so much for so beautifully.
659
00:28:57.595 --> 00:29:01.355
You, God has given you such a incredible
660
00:29:02.275 --> 00:29:05.355
communication skill to be able to share this
661
00:29:05.775 --> 00:29:07.595
and be walking through it at the same time.
662
00:29:07.665 --> 00:29:09.795
Yeah. And I know you and I know that
663
00:29:09.795 --> 00:29:11.115
that is the Holy Spirit in you.
664
00:29:11.115 --> 00:29:15.315
That is not, you are so quick to say, this isn't me.
665
00:29:15.315 --> 00:29:18.035
This is God working through me and His power.
666
00:29:18.935 --> 00:29:23.035
But being at his service
667
00:29:24.495 --> 00:29:29.335
and seeing everyone, your whole
668
00:29:30.325 --> 00:29:33.895
Crew, which you shared at the beginning of this, you,
669
00:29:34.275 --> 00:29:35.895
you are not alone in this.
670
00:29:35.895 --> 00:29:38.935
Mm-hmm. Even though we're never alone, even with,
671
00:29:39.155 --> 00:29:40.575
if it was just us and the Lord.
672
00:29:40.635 --> 00:29:43.925
And if somebody's feeling very alone in grief right now,
673
00:29:45.155 --> 00:29:48.365
your story happens to be this literal crowd,
674
00:29:48.625 --> 00:29:49.685
as you mentioned, the chaos,
675
00:29:49.905 --> 00:29:52.765
but the, the beauty of a big family
676
00:29:53.985 --> 00:29:58.205
and being at the service last November,
677
00:29:58.905 --> 00:30:02.375
um, I have never
678
00:30:04.465 --> 00:30:07.575
walked through so much
679
00:30:08.775 --> 00:30:09.895
spiritual encouragement.
680
00:30:11.405 --> 00:30:12.895
Yeah. In the midst of that.
681
00:30:13.085 --> 00:30:17.095
Like, just not only you being able to share that,
682
00:30:17.095 --> 00:30:19.615
you could even stand upright and do it,
683
00:30:21.155 --> 00:30:24.805
but every person sitting there,
684
00:30:25.775 --> 00:30:30.725
every person who just heard this now is getting to see
685
00:30:31.705 --> 00:30:35.365
the reality of the power of God in
686
00:30:36.495 --> 00:30:38.265
humanly in humanity.
687
00:30:39.365 --> 00:30:41.745
The worst case scenario right.
688
00:30:42.285 --> 00:30:44.025
Is we have a lot of hard stuff. Yeah.
689
00:30:44.085 --> 00:30:46.665
We talk about it, we pray with it,
690
00:30:46.665 --> 00:30:47.705
with our friends, with it.
691
00:30:47.835 --> 00:30:52.225
We're all walking through hard things, but losing your child
692
00:30:52.355 --> 00:30:57.025
after this roller coaster in human terms, right?
693
00:30:57.025 --> 00:30:58.265
Mm-hmm. In human terms. Mm-hmm.
694
00:30:59.615 --> 00:31:04.465
Yeah. Is Is just the unimaginable, like we
695
00:31:04.485 --> 00:31:06.185
as humans want the happy ending.
696
00:31:06.885 --> 00:31:11.865
We want the healing to look a certain way. Right? Mm-hmm.
697
00:31:12.005 --> 00:31:13.065
God is a healer mm-hmm.
698
00:31:13.145 --> 00:31:15.465
That his, his character hasn't changed. Yeah. That he heals.
699
00:31:16.485 --> 00:31:19.265
He can touch someone, he can
700
00:31:20.225 --> 00:31:21.905
strengthen someone to go through.
701
00:31:22.615 --> 00:31:25.105
There's dozens of ways, even in the Bible
702
00:31:25.105 --> 00:31:26.225
that we see him heal.
703
00:31:26.225 --> 00:31:30.785
Mm-hmm. But the one we're talking about today is
704
00:31:30.785 --> 00:31:31.785
that ultimate healing.
705
00:31:32.135 --> 00:31:36.905
Yeah. And that when God says, this is
706
00:31:38.155 --> 00:31:40.255
the end of the striving, this is the end
707
00:31:40.255 --> 00:31:42.375
of the, the wrestling.
708
00:31:42.675 --> 00:31:46.695
So me seeing you from November to now in the summer,
709
00:31:48.835 --> 00:31:50.095
how has this changed you?
710
00:31:53.435 --> 00:31:56.135
Big question. And maybe it hasn't. Big question.
711
00:31:56.145 --> 00:31:58.695
Maybe it hasn't. I mean, like, when you're ministering
712
00:31:58.695 --> 00:32:01.135
to other people, when you're talking through grief,
713
00:32:01.165 --> 00:32:03.375
when you're talking through that, and you're still very much
714
00:32:03.475 --> 00:32:06.495
in the, the tenderness of it.
715
00:32:06.675 --> 00:32:07.855
I'm just saying like, yeah. I,
716
00:32:07.895 --> 00:32:12.695
I, I mean, I think I still, um, I don't like the idea
717
00:32:13.365 --> 00:32:15.175
that somebody has a relationship with Jesus
718
00:32:15.675 --> 00:32:19.095
and can't overcome whatever it is.
719
00:32:19.165 --> 00:32:21.895
Sure. I mean, in Chris's case was addiction.
720
00:32:21.955 --> 00:32:24.255
But, you know, it feels
721
00:32:24.275 --> 00:32:26.695
to me like you have a relationship with Jesus.
722
00:32:26.695 --> 00:32:27.775
Everything is manageable.
723
00:32:28.515 --> 00:32:31.535
And, and you know, I know that the enemy is at work,
724
00:32:31.595 --> 00:32:35.095
and I know that he's, you know, there's always this Yeah.
725
00:32:35.185 --> 00:32:36.535
Subterfuge that's coming.
726
00:32:37.315 --> 00:32:39.685
Um, and there's different levels of weakness.
727
00:32:39.925 --> 00:32:42.645
I don't think that that means you can't know Jesus.
728
00:32:42.825 --> 00:32:44.765
It can't be, you know? Right.
729
00:32:44.765 --> 00:32:46.325
It doesn't negate the ultimate Yeah.
730
00:32:46.325 --> 00:32:47.405
Your relationship with Jesus.
731
00:32:47.825 --> 00:32:51.165
But he and my Chris did not know the power of Jesus.
732
00:32:51.445 --> 00:32:54.285
I know that for sure. Mm-hmm. He knew the salvation. Yeah.
733
00:32:54.285 --> 00:32:56.325
Yeah. This relationship, he trusted
734
00:32:56.355 --> 00:33:00.205
that God was at work in his life and he's creator.
735
00:33:00.475 --> 00:33:03.565
Yeah. He's the savior. Yeah. All men have have to have him.
736
00:33:03.565 --> 00:33:04.925
He would pray. Yes. He, he would say, you know,
737
00:33:04.945 --> 00:33:07.325
I'm praying about this job and, you know, whatever.
738
00:33:07.465 --> 00:33:10.685
And, um, but, but the mm-hmm.
739
00:33:10.865 --> 00:33:13.685
And I think, I think there is a much more of a, um,
740
00:33:14.395 --> 00:33:15.925
empathy in me for that Yeah.
741
00:33:15.925 --> 00:33:17.005
Than there used to be. Mm.
742
00:33:17.355 --> 00:33:19.085
Because it used to be, well, if you're a believer
743
00:33:19.395 --> 00:33:20.205
Sure. Get
744
00:33:20.205 --> 00:33:21.205
Over it. Yeah. Tough
745
00:33:21.205 --> 00:33:22.245
n know, let's go.
746
00:33:22.495 --> 00:33:23.525
God's got you walking
747
00:33:23.545 --> 00:33:26.525
and walk the freedom that he's giving you. Right. So
748
00:33:26.665 --> 00:33:30.245
Was there a verse or something that just resonated for you
749
00:33:30.425 --> 00:33:33.565
during this time or continues to resonate for you?
750
00:33:33.675 --> 00:33:36.445
Like, is there something that, like, that one verse
751
00:33:36.505 --> 00:33:39.405
or maybe there's a couple others that, uh,
752
00:33:39.525 --> 00:33:40.845
I know I'm probably putting you on the spot,
753
00:33:41.145 --> 00:33:44.165
but, um, I know, I'll let you think for a minute.
754
00:33:44.195 --> 00:33:46.605
I'll just share with my own grief with my mom.
755
00:33:46.905 --> 00:33:49.485
She was in hospice, and so it was very different journey.
756
00:33:49.665 --> 00:33:52.405
But as she journeyed, you know,
757
00:33:52.745 --> 00:33:55.685
my dad had died 10 years prior to that in hospice.
758
00:33:55.865 --> 00:33:58.485
And so we kind of knew what the hospice journey looked like.
759
00:33:59.185 --> 00:34:02.445
Um, so then when she had, she had lung cancer.
760
00:34:02.665 --> 00:34:05.725
And so when she, um, started her journey on it, we kind
761
00:34:05.725 --> 00:34:07.005
of knew what was gonna go on.
762
00:34:07.005 --> 00:34:09.485
I, I read the book. I knew kind of the stages of things
763
00:34:09.785 --> 00:34:12.845
and stuff, but, um, it's always, you know, unique
764
00:34:12.865 --> 00:34:13.925
to each individual.
765
00:34:14.905 --> 00:34:18.765
And she truly, um, to me,
766
00:34:19.105 --> 00:34:22.845
and I know not everybody that knew my mom would say this,
767
00:34:22.905 --> 00:34:25.365
but she truly epitomized the word joy.
768
00:34:26.145 --> 00:34:29.445
And even in the midst of the sorrow,
769
00:34:29.945 --> 00:34:31.685
she showed joy.
770
00:34:32.465 --> 00:34:36.565
And when she got very close to, um, passing,
771
00:34:37.305 --> 00:34:40.285
um, I was reading from a devotion with her every day,
772
00:34:40.625 --> 00:34:42.285
and her caregivers as well.
773
00:34:42.465 --> 00:34:44.525
We had some, um, nurses and things there.
774
00:34:44.525 --> 00:34:45.845
And they would read with her this book,
775
00:34:46.385 --> 00:34:49.765
but we would talk about, it was Psalm 30, verse five,
776
00:34:49.905 --> 00:34:52.045
and it says, weeping man, endure for a night.
777
00:34:52.045 --> 00:34:55.125
Mm-hmm. But joy comes in the morning. Mm-hmm. And
778
00:34:57.105 --> 00:35:00.315
It's beautiful because she passed in the morning
779
00:35:01.295 --> 00:35:04.365
and I said, there's no greater joy
780
00:35:04.535 --> 00:35:05.535
Right. Than to know
781
00:35:05.535 --> 00:35:06.125
that she is
782
00:35:06.185 --> 00:35:07.725
Now with her creator.
783
00:35:08.465 --> 00:35:10.085
And it was just a beautiful moment.
784
00:35:10.705 --> 00:35:13.005
And I was like, God, you're so good.
785
00:35:13.275 --> 00:35:16.005
Because could have happened at any time. Mm-hmm.
786
00:35:16.085 --> 00:35:17.365
But it happened in the morning
787
00:35:17.505 --> 00:35:20.005
and it was just something towards the end for me,
788
00:35:20.035 --> 00:35:23.365
that was a real connection for me and her.
789
00:35:23.465 --> 00:35:27.685
Mm-hmm. That mom, every day it's gonna be Okay.
790
00:35:27.865 --> 00:35:30.365
Joy comes in the morning, every day, every day.
791
00:35:30.545 --> 00:35:31.685
Joy comes in the morning. Yeah.
792
00:35:31.685 --> 00:35:34.805
We would end the night talking about joy comes in the
793
00:35:34.805 --> 00:35:37.965
morning, and then the ultimate joy came that one morning.
794
00:35:37.985 --> 00:35:41.605
Mm-hmm. And so that was a verse that just, you know,
795
00:35:42.765 --> 00:35:45.365
I clung to, um, and still does, still
796
00:35:45.365 --> 00:35:46.365
Do. Well, one of the things that
797
00:35:46.365 --> 00:35:48.485
we saw with your mom who
798
00:35:49.255 --> 00:35:53.685
loved the Lord and attended church and had her, you know,
799
00:35:53.685 --> 00:35:56.405
but the closer heaven came mm-hmm.
800
00:35:56.785 --> 00:35:59.045
The more laser focused she was. Yeah.
801
00:35:59.745 --> 00:36:03.005
The more bold she was, the more quick she was,
802
00:36:03.065 --> 00:36:06.925
the more it was like a, a heavenly power to,
803
00:36:07.185 --> 00:36:09.725
to be courageous and speak out about that.
804
00:36:09.725 --> 00:36:12.965
Mm-hmm. And so you, you hear those stories of
805
00:36:14.185 --> 00:36:15.485
we are living in this
806
00:36:16.475 --> 00:36:19.245
earthly reality, the natural world.
807
00:36:19.315 --> 00:36:22.565
Yeah. And there's just something about the supernatural.
808
00:36:23.745 --> 00:36:26.085
And as they start to merge together, when
809
00:36:26.085 --> 00:36:30.095
that person is touched
810
00:36:30.525 --> 00:36:31.695
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
811
00:36:31.775 --> 00:36:33.415
And healed Mm-hmm.
812
00:36:33.495 --> 00:36:34.735
Completely Healed. Mm-hmm.
813
00:36:35.435 --> 00:36:37.695
No more there's a peace. No more. There's a peace.
814
00:36:37.805 --> 00:36:40.295
Yeah. No more battles in this. Right.
815
00:36:41.155 --> 00:36:44.375
But on our timeline Yeah.
816
00:36:44.845 --> 00:36:46.535
What we would, what we would count in
817
00:36:46.535 --> 00:36:47.735
is really different Right.
818
00:36:47.845 --> 00:36:51.215
Than understanding God. Yeah. In picture in that.
819
00:36:52.525 --> 00:36:55.615
Well, is there, I don't,
820
00:36:55.735 --> 00:36:57.855
I just don't wanna cut you off in this at all
821
00:36:57.855 --> 00:36:59.415
because if there's something else
822
00:36:59.445 --> 00:37:02.215
that God has put on your heart to share with us, we,
823
00:37:02.315 --> 00:37:04.335
we wanna give you that opportunity to do that.
824
00:37:04.435 --> 00:37:09.015
But I just really feel like we are laying out,
825
00:37:10.975 --> 00:37:15.315
we say about this format that we start conversations so
826
00:37:15.315 --> 00:37:18.595
that people can go get into the word, they can go dig in,
827
00:37:18.945 --> 00:37:20.275
they can seek God about it.
828
00:37:20.275 --> 00:37:21.475
Yeah. They can pray about it.
829
00:37:21.785 --> 00:37:25.915
Because grief isn't a, we talked about this.
830
00:37:25.915 --> 00:37:27.835
It's not a straight line. You haven't really
831
00:37:27.835 --> 00:37:28.955
wanted to share Yeah.
832
00:37:28.985 --> 00:37:30.275
Much of this, because
833
00:37:30.945 --> 00:37:33.035
It's very Hard when you're processing it yourself.
834
00:37:33.335 --> 00:37:36.035
And not to be, you know, put on the spot with that.
835
00:37:36.055 --> 00:37:37.955
But yeah. Is there anything else you wanna,
836
00:37:37.985 --> 00:37:39.675
Well, I mean, I would say Just in conclusion
837
00:37:39.825 --> 00:37:41.315
that you wanted to share with it.
838
00:37:41.635 --> 00:37:43.475
'cause I, we just appreciate
839
00:37:43.475 --> 00:37:44.475
You. I would say,
840
00:37:44.475 --> 00:37:48.555
um, one of the things that has just has just
841
00:37:49.155 --> 00:37:52.515
crystallized for me is do not give up.
842
00:37:53.345 --> 00:37:56.835
Like never give up when it feels hopeless.
843
00:37:57.385 --> 00:37:59.875
When you feel like, oh yeah, we've been here, done that.
844
00:38:01.285 --> 00:38:04.035
Never give up. If you are praying for the will of God,
845
00:38:04.745 --> 00:38:06.035
keep praying and know
846
00:38:06.035 --> 00:38:08.235
that it may not be the answer may not be
847
00:38:08.385 --> 00:38:09.875
what you are looking for.
848
00:38:10.355 --> 00:38:12.875
I was looking for healing here. Yeah. Right.
849
00:38:13.215 --> 00:38:15.515
And a long life with him here, here.
850
00:38:15.935 --> 00:38:18.475
And God said, I'm gonna answer your prayer,
851
00:38:18.535 --> 00:38:20.675
but it's, you know, this is how it's gonna look.
852
00:38:20.745 --> 00:38:22.395
Yeah. It's gonna be different than you think, right? Yeah.
853
00:38:22.975 --> 00:38:26.435
So I would always say, that's beautiful to,
854
00:38:26.435 --> 00:38:27.635
to anybody struggling.
855
00:38:27.885 --> 00:38:28.955
Don't give up. Don't
856
00:38:28.955 --> 00:38:29.955
Give up. I love that. Mm-hmm.
857
00:38:29.955 --> 00:38:31.155
That's very encouraging.
858
00:38:31.155 --> 00:38:34.155
And you know, I think our listeners today, you know,
859
00:38:34.155 --> 00:38:35.725
whether you have walked through grief
860
00:38:36.065 --> 00:38:39.125
or you're in the midst of grief, um, you know,
861
00:38:39.125 --> 00:38:42.165
we felt very compelled in our planning time
862
00:38:42.425 --> 00:38:44.445
to have an episode on this
863
00:38:44.635 --> 00:38:47.485
because it's, it's real.
864
00:38:47.755 --> 00:38:49.485
It's, they're part of life. It's a part of life.
865
00:38:49.985 --> 00:38:53.445
And your story is so impactful for people
866
00:38:53.445 --> 00:38:56.085
because as a mom, you never gave up.
867
00:38:56.625 --> 00:38:59.005
You know, you had that door always open.
868
00:38:59.505 --> 00:39:02.205
And that is an encouragement to so many people.
869
00:39:02.465 --> 00:39:04.485
You know, we're, you know, and,
870
00:39:04.505 --> 00:39:07.685
and I pray for you that your blessing, like, you know,
871
00:39:08.025 --> 00:39:10.965
by doing this and sharing this story, that you're either
872
00:39:11.645 --> 00:39:14.205
encouraging someone right now or someone's gonna come around
873
00:39:14.205 --> 00:39:16.445
and encourage you because they've had
874
00:39:16.445 --> 00:39:17.565
something happen to them.
875
00:39:17.565 --> 00:39:19.445
Mm-hmm. And so, you know, I just pray for
876
00:39:19.445 --> 00:39:21.285
that connection for you as well.
877
00:39:21.345 --> 00:39:24.085
And I know we do have to wrap up today, know. I know.
878
00:39:24.085 --> 00:39:25.245
And, you know, if there is more things
879
00:39:25.245 --> 00:39:28.805
to continue on our conversation, I think we can always, um,
880
00:39:29.025 --> 00:39:31.605
you know, put that out in our show notes and, and things.
881
00:39:31.605 --> 00:39:33.485
And if there's any resources you wanna share
882
00:39:33.755 --> 00:39:36.005
with our audience, um, we always will,
883
00:39:36.155 --> 00:39:38.165
will put those resources out for them as well.
884
00:39:38.225 --> 00:39:39.685
Mm-hmm. Um, you know,
885
00:39:39.685 --> 00:39:41.765
we certainly love your story and your time.
886
00:39:41.815 --> 00:39:44.765
We're so sorry that this is part of your,
887
00:39:45.355 --> 00:39:47.605
your life and things. But, um, we
888
00:39:47.605 --> 00:39:49.205
Need to have Kathy back to talk about
889
00:39:49.785 --> 00:39:51.365
how cute her grandchildren are. Children are,
890
00:39:51.545 --> 00:39:52.545
You know what I Mean? I can
891
00:39:52.545 --> 00:39:53.725
talk a long time on that. Yes,
892
00:39:53.725 --> 00:39:54.725
Yes. You need a much longer show.
893
00:39:54.725 --> 00:39:55.005
894
00:39:55.005 --> 00:39:57.965
Bring bring the albums, bring the pictures, do all that. We
895
00:39:57.965 --> 00:39:59.005
Are so thankful though.
896
00:39:59.005 --> 00:40:01.645
We are so thankful. 'cause this is not, this is not an easy,
897
00:40:02.275 --> 00:40:04.125
easy, easy breezy topic.
898
00:40:05.265 --> 00:40:06.645
Can I jump in with Yes, please.
899
00:40:06.945 --> 00:40:10.405
One more thing that I just, I just keep thinking is that
900
00:40:11.375 --> 00:40:13.045
grief, you, you really have a
901
00:40:13.045 --> 00:40:14.205
choice what you're gonna do with it.
902
00:40:14.265 --> 00:40:17.525
So grief can make you really bitter and angry,
903
00:40:18.145 --> 00:40:19.805
or it can make you really soft and tender.
904
00:40:19.865 --> 00:40:23.325
Mm. And I just have kind of watched that as the Lord has
905
00:40:24.405 --> 00:40:27.965
ministered to me that there is a, there's much more
906
00:40:27.965 --> 00:40:31.125
of a tenderness in my interactions with other people
907
00:40:31.265 --> 00:40:33.445
and their difficult circumstances.
908
00:40:33.445 --> 00:40:35.885
Sometimes there are difficult circumstances that come about
909
00:40:35.885 --> 00:40:37.045
because of their own doing,
910
00:40:37.545 --> 00:40:40.525
but there is still something that's tender. Yeah.
911
00:40:40.665 --> 00:40:43.365
Wow. Because grief makes you soft if you live it.
912
00:40:43.365 --> 00:40:45.405
Mm-hmm. That's, and I don't never wanna be bitter. That
913
00:40:45.405 --> 00:40:46.765
Is, that is absolutely beautiful.
914
00:40:46.795 --> 00:40:50.325
That is the perfect way to end this. Yeah. And yeah,
915
00:40:50.805 --> 00:40:52.365
I think It's in that tenderness
916
00:40:52.475 --> 00:40:53.805
that we can say the words,
917
00:40:54.545 --> 00:40:55.545
Be encouraged. Mm-hmm.
918
00:40:55.545 --> 00:40:56.725
Be refreshed
919
00:40:56.985 --> 00:40:58.725
And stay well Grounded.
