HipHop Talks Podcast
Introducing "Hip-Hop Talks Podcast/Media'' - a captivating experience that immerses hip-hop enthusiasts in the boundless world of the genre and its cultural impact. Join hosts Shawn, Coop, and Adriel as they pay homage to the foundations of hip hop, from its origins to the present day with a diverse take on Hip Hop. Shawn, takes you through the boroughs of New York, while Coop provides a provocative, yet daring take on the South’s stake in the Hip Hop game. Adriel brings the unique perspective of Hip Hop through the lens of those that cling onto the lifeline and purity of Hip Hop. Combining their thoughts and views, is liken to your favorite superhero team assembling to lean into each other’s strengths. Through insightful conversations, passionate debates, and meticulous breakdowns, they explore the intricate fabrics of hip hop, including its powerful lyrics, infectious beats, mesmerizing breakdancing, vibrant graffiti art, skillful DJing, and electrifying MCing. "Hip-Hop Talks" is the ultimate destination for fans seeking to deepen their understanding and appreciation of this influential art form. Tune in and become part of the unified community that celebrates the timeless legacy of hip hop.
HipHop Talks Podcast
RZA + The Best Year In Hip-Hop, New Music from Westside Gunn & Freddie Gibbs, Much More!
What happens when the NBA season leaves us feeling underwhelmed, and the obsession with football pulls us away from the court? We kick off this episode with a lively chat about our mixed feelings on Milwaukee and Philly's performances while tipping our hats to Phoenix and Golden State for keeping things interesting. Our nostalgia takes center stage as we reminisce about the iconic opening scene of "Belly," sharing tales of our pre-club shenanigans inspired by the movie. It's a trip down memory lane filled with laughs and light-hearted banter.
Next, we dive into West Side Gun's latest release, "Still Praying," dissecting its place in the hip-hop landscape. Is it a masterstroke or just another entry in the Griselda repertoire? From beat selection to guest appearances, we explore what makes this project tick. The conversation naturally shifts to the indomitable Wu-Tang Clan, celebrating their monumental impact from "Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)" to GZA's "Liquid Swords." We revel in the rich tapestry of hip-hop legends, like Redman and Freddie Gibbs, acknowledging their enduring contributions.
And what would an episode be without some spicy commentary on the Hot Boys reunion and the intriguing dynamics between Drake and DeMar DeRozan? We wrap up with a nod to Quincy Jones's influence through iconic samples, and a thrilling play-by-play of an electrifying football face-off between Baltimore and Cincinnati. Join us for a rollercoaster of topics, a celebration of hip-hop's storied past, and a night of unforgettable sports moments.
Outro Music what up, what up, what up. Welcome everybody, thursday night Hip Hop Talks. I'm Coop, that's Sean, and AG Park Hill, belly AG, always with the merch, sean, always representing New York. How we doing fellas.
Speaker 2:Doing great man, outstanding, outstanding.
Speaker 1:We got a lot of places to go, a lot of ground to cover. What you think of the start of the NBA season, real quick.
Speaker 2:What are your thoughts? Trash.
Speaker 3:Trash. Wow, you said that simultaneously.
Speaker 2:Trash.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think the play has been subpar. Any surprises, Anything that surprises you early.
Speaker 3:If you remember the last show not the last show, it was a couple shows ago I told you Cleveland is the sleeper. You did, I did. You know what I'm saying. They coming out swinging. But the rest of the East is pretty disappointing, especially Milwaukee and Philly Extremely.
Speaker 1:I think, where Milwaukee and Philly are surprising disappointments, I think Phoenix and Golden State are pleasant surprises in the West right now, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, I don't know about you guys, but I have a hard time tapping into basketball until football is wrapped up. It's tough, yeah, yeah. Okay, I don't know about you guys, but I have a hard time tapping into basketball until football is wrapped up, it's tough yeah, not for me.
Speaker 2:I'm done with football, I can have that.
Speaker 3:My team is trash and I'm still not done with football yet, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my team is trashy too. I mean, I have the worst owner and the worst organization in football to root for?
Speaker 2:No, I probably got you beat. I probably got you beat.
Speaker 1:What are you? No, no, no. You're a Cowboys fan, see? No, no, no. You have the most unrealistic fan base and the worst expectations. You don't have the actual worst team. I have the worst team you do. Yeah, you just have. I have the worst owner and the worst organizational structure and the worst owner and the worst organizational structure and the worst player. You just have the worst fan base. I'd like to remind you that you're part of that fan base. You're part of the problem.
Speaker 2:I'm not one of those, though I'm realistic. I knew it would be trash.
Speaker 1:Like to realistically tell you the team's not going to win a Super Bowl while Jerry.
Speaker 3:Jones is alive. That's an anomaly for the Cowboys, though.
Speaker 1:Team's not going to win a Super Bowl while Jerry Jones is alive. They're not. It's not.
Speaker 2:I've said that for years.
Speaker 1:It's not he wants too much of the credit.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He is the credit, and that's the problem. That's the problem.
Speaker 2:That's the problem. That's the problem. That's the problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, favorite scene in Belly AG Quick sidebar.
Speaker 3:The opening scene, man, that club scene is the best entrance to a movie ever, not just a hip-hop movie or whatever, like you know what I'm saying. That's, you know, best intro to a movie ever, in my opinion. You know I'm saying quick story. I mean we had an anniversary like november 3rd was the soundtrack, november 4th was uh the movie 26 years. Um, I had a manager I used to work at a foot action in the mall when I was like 19. You know I'm saying come home from college or whatever.
Speaker 3:My own manager was from alabama and um, you know, we came here to west virginia and uh, he would take, and he would uh take me out to the um, he would take me out to the club with him and stuff. But what was funny was, you know, before he would like dip out, he had a ritual. He was like all right, before we got to go out, you know saying we got to watch the opening scene, the belly, to get the mind right. He watched the opening scene to belly and we'd listen to like volume one you know what I'm saying, in particular, imaginary players. That was the ritual before the club every weekend.
Speaker 1:Okay, Sean. What about you? What's your? Definitely opening scene.
Speaker 2:Definitely opening scene. I think I ran after that scene every time I went to the club for no reason, walking slow and everything looking crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it definitely opens me first of all, I can see you trying to do that and failing miserably.
Speaker 2:So that sounds about right, so sean had the context like he really did like you know the context, that the white avarex that nabs had in the park and everything I had the same white avarex that Nas had in the park and everything. I had the same white avarex that he had in the park. All of that, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think we're actually three for three because I actually think that the opening scene is the best scene. I tell people that was actually me in the club once upon a time. That was actually me. That was me Doing what. Once upon a time, that was actually me. That was me.
Speaker 2:Doing what?
Speaker 1:All of it, all of it, all of it.
Speaker 2:That's my life story.
Speaker 1:That's my life story and I'm sticking to it, just like you're sticking to that basketball shit. We know it's true.
Speaker 3:A lot of people don't know that was shot in the tunnel. You know what I'm saying. That was dope man, the legendary tunnel, the legendary tunnel.
Speaker 2:Have you been to the tunnel before?
Speaker 1:No, you're bad. I like how you tried to point that out. I think you kind of knew. I think you kind of knew no, no, no. I think, you kind of knew that me and AJ hadn't been to the tunnel, which is why you did that shit.
Speaker 2:I'm just having fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not today. Not today, we have a fully packed show, sir, we don't have time for your shenanigans, smug.
Speaker 3:Sean.
Speaker 1:We don't have time for your shenanigans, we don't. We have things to do. All right, let's go to the vibe. My vibe today, on this Thursday, is the vibe. My vibe today, on this Thursday is that, well, it appears that Blackstar is about to release, no Fear of Time, in what is it? Vinyl, cassette, cd, have some merchandise coming that will be available this upcoming Black Friday? Is that correct? Do I have all of that information correct? I think that's what it was Black.
Speaker 2:Friday.
Speaker 1:Now usually on my vibe. I like the vibe, but today I'd actually like you gentlemen's thoughts before I, you know, do what I think everybody knows I'm about to do. Ag, you want to go first? Sean, care to jump in?
Speaker 3:I actually don't have any thoughts because I collect vinyls, but I don't plan on copying that one.
Speaker 1:AG. Mayi inquire, AG, as to why you don't plan on buying this vinyl? With yourself being a vinyl collector, I'm fascinated.
Speaker 3:Number one. I didn't like the album.
Speaker 2:Fascinating.
Speaker 3:When I heard it you know that's number one it was alright. But for that long a hiatus between you know saying the first black star joint and that joint and then to make it um, exclusive behind a paywall. It wasn't that good, you know so. And I and I heard it for free I ain't gonna act like I got that subscription service, service play it, pirated that joint Listening to it. That one time was enough for me. I was cool on that.
Speaker 2:Sean, yeah, same for me. I listened to that one time and then went back to it. I think Tri-Fash sent it to me. I want to put Tri-Fash on blast. I think Tri-Fash sent it to me.
Speaker 1:You just did. You don't want to put him on blast. When you just put him on blast, I just said it again.
Speaker 2:He does this to me all the time. I know Shout out to Tri-Boogie, but Tri-Fash should have sent it to me. But nah, I'm good on that. I'm not copying that. Yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 1:Here's my problem with it. It's the same problem that I always had with it. If you really say that you have a fan base and it's been two decades since you released a project, don't you think it's just a wiser business decision to make it more available to the masses? And then the time that now has elapsed, in today's climate, let's forget whether or not that you like, love, hate, indifferent, ambivalent about the album, about the player who wants to buy something two years after it's been released unless it's not definitively a classic, no matter what genre of music it is ain't nobody
Speaker 1:buying anything nobody like. If you want to buy, like a Purple Rain or Thriller, two years later, no, that makes sense, no fear of time. And this is what I mean about these grandiose thoughts from these quote unquote conscious rapping ass rappers that have these delusions of grandeur and it's really just like bad business and bad money plays and bad decision making, because if they were actually going to do this, they should have done this at least at least 18 months ago at the latest, like at the latest. But they're not really in tune with how this cycle works. They have these delusions of grandeur where they think that they're greater than everybody else artistically in this hip-hop space. And at the end of the day, I'm gonna say just like I said before when this album was coming out, just comes off as bad business from bad businessmen who got taken advantage of at a young age by the industry and, instead of learning how to pimp the game, have just continued to cry about it and haven't really evolved in terms of their business acumen. That's my real takeaway from it.
Speaker 1:I know you can wrap your ass off. Known that for a quarter century. What's your, what's your business portfolio and profile look like? Because that is how we, how we actually now Like greats in our culture too. We talk about the influence that they have in business and diversification and having an actual portfolio of business that extends beyond rap, or even how they conduct that business portfolio through rap, such as a Snoop acquiring Death Row Records again. So it just wreaks a bad business to me and I'm just tired of guys like that taking advantage of the fan base that they actually do have that supports them, like actually do write by the people that actually do support you and did actually wait two decades for you to release this project. Quite frankly, I think it's better than both of you guys do, but I don't think that it's worth waiting two years for a piece of fucking vinyl for.
Speaker 2:Nah, nah.
Speaker 1:It's not like that enough.
Speaker 3:It's not a relic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not a relic, no, no, that means you're overvaluing yourself for the sake of the product itself. You overvalue yourself over the product, and a product is not good enough to value at that point. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I mean they're continuing the same thing they did when it initially came out, but, you know, putting it behind the paywall of the subscription service. So it's like this is on brand with what initially happened. So I'm not, you know, moved by it either way.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah, on brand with what initially happened, so I'm not, you know, moved by it either way. Right, yeah, yeah no one talks about that album? Really no one talks about it. We don't hear about that album, no more. No one says, oh, this is like a go-to or that was one of the dopest albums of the year that year. No one talks about it like that. We don't hold it in high regard like that, is it? Yes?
Speaker 3:and, you know, maybe the physicals are coming because they didn't, you know, wasn't able to amass enough money from the subscription service that they put it behind in the first place. That's what. I mean.
Speaker 1:When I talk about these delusions of grandeur, these are it. Like they actually think that there is a big, viable market for their merchandise and for their work right now, like when there was barely a market for it two years ago and they've done nothing work-wise, or business-wise, or music-wise to increase that fervor to go seek out their product and their merchandise. Like they've done nothing. They've done nothing about it. Think about it right.
Speaker 3:Well, I think've just got to be realistic. Two of them are two of the you know to live and Yassin like they're two of the most dope MCs we've had. But let's be real when physicals was a thing before the streaming era, neither one of them were moving units back then. So I don't know why the mindset would be that you would move, you know, units like that.
Speaker 1:Now, in today's climate, in today's era, no, that's fair, they were barely gold artists then.
Speaker 3:Correct Overvalued Overvalued.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so we actually have a couple of albums to discuss. Gentlemen, I'm actually excited to hear y'all's thoughts on these two albums. We're about to start. Where do y'all want to start, y'all?
Speaker 2:want to start with West Side, or y'all want to start with Freddie?
Speaker 1:Either one. Let's go West Side, let's go West Side. West Side Gun released project number 97 and a half from him Still praying.
Speaker 3:That's crazy, it's not wrong, though it's not wrong, though it's not wrong at all. West.
Speaker 1:Side got more tapes floating around than Smack DVD back in the day. How many tapes West Side got? Tell me your thoughts on Still Praying, Sean, since you were all New York Parked Hill out Parked.
Speaker 2:Hill Project.
Speaker 1:I said I want to talk to Westside first. So go ahead and talk your shit. Tell me what you think about the Westside.
Speaker 2:Dope album. Nothing to go crazy over, man, I don't want to say it like this. You hear one Westside project you heard them all. You know what I mean it's starting and I one Westside project you heard them all. You know what I mean it's starting to be. I love Westside, westside. You hear this, do you Do you? Do you, do you? I'm going to need to edit that Drake, who do you love I?
Speaker 1:know, man.
Speaker 2:The Max Castor joint is my favorite joint because to me's classical Wes, the ad-libs are there, the creation is there. You got drama in the background.
Speaker 3:It has to mix.
Speaker 2:You got everything Again. Maybe that's the wrong term to use that. You heard it, you hear one, you hear them all. I think it's the same thing I really do. I don't see a variation or a variable to this right or anything that I would say. You know what this is different than the last project? I can't say that because I feel like it's really the same thing. If you're good in a certain pocket, you've got to, I guess, stay in that pocket.
Speaker 2:Most artists that we love they venture out a little bit more, they put more body into the album, and I'm not saying this doesn't have that. There's no difference between drinking good wine. You look for the good wine that has a good body to it. Right that it has that robust feeling to it, that robust taste to it. And I think about this album, I don't know if it have a robust flavor to it, I think it just have a flavor. You know what I mean. I think it's a dope album. You're getting what you're getting from it. You know the grisaille de sang. You know what Wes is going to do. Nothing shocked me on this album, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:No, I get what you're saying, but I guess I would have some subtle rebuttals, and some of those would be that, well, you're kind of calling this project table wine and it's like, well, I think it's better than table wine. It's just not like you know, it's not. It's not a, it's not a 2003 silver oak from napa valley. You know what I mean. It's not not a sasakaya from the piedmont, like it's. It's, it's not that. But it is better than table wine, though, and I think when you're talking about who it satisfies, I was actually part of why I was excited. Talking about these albums is one of the questions that I had for both of y'all is is that for the age demographic that we're in? Is your boom bap aesthetic pleased by this west side project in particular? Like, does it? Does it? Are you getting your boom bap hip hop feel from this album? That's what Griselda specializes in, so if he did it, then he did his job.
Speaker 1:That's what I just said, but you're trying to call it a weed plate and table wine.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. That's what I said. I said that if you're good in his pocket, you mastered that pocket. What I'm saying is it's the same flavor.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm saying I'm not saying it's the wrong flavor.
Speaker 2:It's the same flavor. So if I'm talking about variation of projects and I'm talking about growth of a project, a growth from this album to this album there's a lot of growth there. It's like I'm here in his pocket, I'm a. It's like I'm here in his pocket. I'm going to remain in his pocket because I'm great in his pocket, I'm the best in his pocket. That's what you're going to get. You're going to get the best version of Westside in his pocket.
Speaker 2:That's all I'm saying I mean no hating that, I'm just saying that's what I got. I feel like this is him in all his splendor. This is who Westside is. How would you rate it? Give it a three and a half.
Speaker 3:Okay, ag, am I good to go, please? I see what Sean's saying and he's not wrong, but I have a different viewpoint. You're looking at it as like you're not hearing any growth from Westside Project to Westside Project. Correct, that's what you're saying. It's in the same wheelhouse. But the way I look at it is, westside brings a certain aesthetic that's missing on all the other Griselda projects. So you know, even if we hear a Benny album, a Conway album or who have you, we might be like yo, it's missing something.
Speaker 3:Then we circle back around the West side. His curation is always top tier. We get the posse cuts like the Still Praying cut. You know what I'm saying. And just the way he puts albums together. You know he can't spit like the other members in Griselda, but Just the way he puts albums together, you know he can't spit like the other members in Griselda, but it's always going to bring it back home to that original Griselda feeling where I think a lot of the other guys fall short. You know what I'm saying. So I think it's refreshing because even though if you just comparing it to his other albums, it's virtually the same in that regard. But you know, if I listen to the benny album, where benny tries to step outside the box a little bit and then come back and listen to west side.
Speaker 3:West side gives that classic grizelda sound and, um, I ain't gonna lie, I was worried after that 11, uh, ep because I wasn't feeling that at all, wasn't feeling that in the least. I was yeah, and then see we the opposite. So when I put this on, this was like refreshing man. And then dj drama has a whole nother element. When you got him in there with the you know, um, you know talking over the tracks, it gets you amped up. And then he was, you know, uh, wheeling it back. You know, I'm saying the first opening bars of.
Speaker 3:You know I'm saying, like some songs here and there, um, when drama brings that element to the table, you know I'm saying this is, it's like an event. So, um, I was, I was very pleased with this project. I mean, it wasn't nothing like crazy. But if I'm going to tap into a griselda album like this is the sound aesthetic that I want and it gave me that. You know what I mean. I would be more so to rate it along the lines of a 3.75. You know, I don't know if I could give it quite a four, maybe a four, but that's where I'm at with it 100%.
Speaker 1:I'm closer to your thoughts, ag, than Sean's too. I think that a Westside project I'm just going to call it what it is it's the beat selection, Because he has the type of beat selection where the producer doesn't matter. I think when it comes to the other Griselda artists, it's like well, we want to see them work with certain producers to bring out a certain style or aesthetic with them. West side already has a vision for what his projects are supposed to sound like and I think that's something that you're kind of like saying to sean. Like, like, with it is, it's like, well, west side project is kind of like already mapped out. We need, we're gonna get about 17 boom, boom, boom, boom. You know what I'm saying. We're gonna get a real slow down track with a slow, heavy drum, like I call it the come clean effect from the dj premiere and jay rube the damager, come clean. That come clean sounding real slow, melodic, super boom bappy track. You're gonna get that record. You're gonna get the best grizelda Posse cut that you're probably going to get on a West Side album.
Speaker 1:Most of their best songs as a collective are on West Side's projects. That's not accidental If you were to pick the top 20 crew songs that they've done, I'd probably tell you probably about 12 to 14 of them come on West Side projects. That's not accidental, but that happens, and so I was impressed by the album. The second half of the album is stellar actually. So it's really the first half of the album that really actually hurts this project. I think I'm going to echo your sentiments about the 3.75. But that's just for the slow start to the project and it's not like the beginning of the project is bad, it's just not great. And I think the second half of the project and it's not like the beginning of the project is bad, it's just not great. And I think the second half of the project is great. And I think if the second half of the project would have been more of the consistent theme throughout, it would have been a better project. Now, with that being said, I've always looked at West side as a curator, and part of the reason why the second half of the album is better is because he's doing more curating, ie more guest appearances and less rapping, as in putting the songs together, putting people in position and places to succeed see stove, god. Speaking of which. Where the fuck is your album? Where's that we need a stove out. We need that stove. It's long overdue.
Speaker 1:But the record, like the record, with everybody on there with Boldy and Stove and Conway and Benny what was most impressive about the record outside of it being the best collective song I've heard from them in a minute probably since they did, since him and Benny and Conway did Hell on Earth 2 off of Hitler. Where's Hermes 10? I don't know. He's got 97 and a half projects. Conway did Hell on Earth 2 off of Hitler Wears Hermes 10. I don't know he's got 97 and a half projects, so I'm not sure which Hitler Wears Hermes. That was. I think it was 10. Years ago. But shit, hitler Wears Hermes 8. It was 8. It was 8? I think it was 8. But you're going to get that from the West Side project. You're going to get the project of the production, the curation, the stylistic boom BAP. I just don't think it's as good as some of his peak moments, like a pray for Paris, a Supreme blind tell. It's definitely not that level. So I think it's closer to a, a fly God 2.
Speaker 3:Comparatively speaking to Benny's not the one with Spesh, but let's say Summertime Butch or Conway's Last Project. How would you rank this?
Speaker 1:with those. I think it's better than Conway's Last Project. I really like Summertime Butch.
Speaker 3:Butch is dope. It was dope, but I could see myself going back to this West Side more.
Speaker 1:The second half of this project is better than Summertime Butch, but just the second half. It's kind of like when I tell people well, all Eyes on Me, book one to me is better than book one or two on life after death. But life after death is the better project about the consistent greatness of book one and book two, whereas on book two, of all eyes on me, there's some classic songs, but not classic throughout, right, yeah, so I think there's some of that going on, so I think it's about what you like. In a vacuum, I'd probably tell you I would ride to the benny from beginning to end more, but might play certain songs off the west side more, if that makes sense yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, west side got that swag man, he got that confidence he does overrides everything, his confidence overrides the flow, to be quite honest.
Speaker 1:He's like the Bobby Brown of rappers. In that sense it's like well, he's actually the third best singer in the group, but he's the nigga you like the most in the group.
Speaker 2:He got that. If factor man, there you go.
Speaker 3:You know he doesn't have the bars that Conway or Benny has, but the way he says stuff is clever and witty enough. You know what I'm saying. And it's just that fly talk where he just you know what I'm saying, it just hits you every time, you know.
Speaker 2:I put the thing on your blinky. The way he says things and the way he he has found on the things that he's saying. It's just, it's the effect.
Speaker 1:Well, expound on the things that he's saying. It's just, it's, it's the effect. Well, you want to know what it is too. He's actually a really really dope rapper. It just so happens he is in a crew where charismatic, wise speaking he has somebody who rivals him, who's under him, and so, yeah, and his cousin and his brother are just like l, lyrically speaking like A-list rappers for their generation, for their generation they're A-list like lyricists and rappers, and so it's easy for his stuff to get drowned out, like you know, like he says stuff that you got to catch, like skip my spot at the microwave, you're going to die tonight, you know.
Speaker 3:Or when he's like my nigga, my shooter shot five niggas in a row and yelled bingo but I mean, but the thing that Westside does, that like you know he's appealing to more niche audiences, like he'll weave a bar that has like a drug reference, a wrestling reference and a high fashion reference all in the same bar and like you know what I mean, and every you know sub subset of fans, like you know I'm saying, can latch on to that it's. It's really dope how he puts stuff together to me. You know what I mean he's very charismatic.
Speaker 1:He's very charismatic man like you know, like you know what he embodies, what they embody, they pull from that era of new york rap that we grew up on, and so what he really has is there's some, there's some wu-tang in them, but there's some mob deep but there's like rick in them. You know what I'm saying. Like he's got a lot of those things like in him and that's what we're drawn to, that. So that niche that you're talking about, like it's actually us that are drawn, yeah, yeah, I see a lot of ghost face.
Speaker 3:You know I'm saying in um and where.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like no, he's got the same type of kind of like swagger where it's like you expect him to pull out wearing like a platinum robe with a gold eagle on, like with like 17 girls around him, like screaming west side, west side, like yeah, like, yeah, he's like that, like he, he embodies that style that comes with that, and so I think that's important on his projects and so overall I think it's a successful effort from them. But I would tell you that you know, I don't know, and this is the thing the other side of making so much work is that then it becomes hard to place a project like this that's not elite, it's like so where does it fall in this catalog? So my last thought and impression about the project would be does it benefit his legacy any, or is this just another good project from West Side Gun, like Sean said?
Speaker 3:Doesn't benefit his legacy any, but this just another good project from West Side Gun. Like Sean said, doesn't benefit his legacy any, but it helps write the ship of Griselda some.
Speaker 2:How.
Speaker 3:Because, like I said, you know, they haven't been putting out the quality projects as a whole, collective, like they were at a higher clip previously.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's the album that writes that ship, though I don't think it's the album that writes that shift, though I don't think it's a good start.
Speaker 3:We'll put it like that you know what I'm saying, what Benny's been doing, um, you know the Benny and special, and then you know what. You know, uh, what West side did with this project. You know, if you get a good streak of projects, have a thousand projects. So if you get a good streak going of consecutive projects, then you know that's a start, because everything they used to put out was quality until it wasn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think I don't think that they're not pulling out quality projects. I just don't think the quality is as high as it was at its peak a few years ago. So where I think they were like, like, like a few years ago they were making albums that were closer to fives than fours, and now they're making albums that are closer to fours and fives, and so not saying that the quality is not there, like, and even their subsidiaries, like love and skis, have dropped a dope projects this year. Benny's dropped three dope projects this year. Yeah, he's got everybody can't go. He's dropped three dope projects this year. Yes, he's got Everybody Can't Go.
Speaker 1:Summertime Butch and the Joint with 38. So it's not like they're still not here, it's not like they're not relevant. I think it's about. Well, I don't think that they're impacting the culture the same way, and that comes over time. It doesn't matter what crew you are. I mean, mobb Deep and Wu-Tang weren't the hottest things in the streets by the time we were going off to college, fellas, you know what I'm saying, because by then, a lot popped up and become the hottest thing in the streets. Yeah, you guys are kind of plateauing at this point, though, because again when you hit a certain zenith and you cannot overcome that.
Speaker 2:Think about the Mobb Deep. The Mobb Deep I think their Zenith album was murder music, because everything leading up to murder music was a knock at the park. Right, you get murder music and you had your Zenith. Now you have reached that. What else can you do to overcome that? You know what I mean and what else can you do to really break the next barrier?
Speaker 1:That was the first time they went flat Absolutely, and it was well-deserved, I think also, too, it was the first time they made songs that were great, that you could play outside of New York or outside of being a New York hip-hop fan and love the song.
Speaker 2:Exactly, fellas. Think about Wu-Tang Forever. Wu-tang Forever was the button up of everything they'd done from 93 up until 97. That was like it. That was like the closing the door, the chapter of Wu-Tang Forever.
Speaker 1:I almost feel like they put in too much work on Wu-Tang Forever and hurt their run by a little bit absolutely because it was so good.
Speaker 3:It wasn't necessarily evil, because the plan is so big that they had to make it gigantic. You know what I'm saying? Because it was larger than life as a brand.
Speaker 1:It's just sound wise outside of Supreme Clientele and some moments on the W, it was never really the same.
Speaker 1:You know it's like you know you can. You know sometimes when you shoot your shot you know what I'm saying it can cost you, like future championships. You know what I'm saying. It's like them going for that championship ring might have cost them another couple of rings down the line to keep that run going better. And maybe some of those songs like how about this? Maybe something like a black shampoo that actually gets held off for actual you, God's project, helps you, God's project garner more momentum and keep the run going. You get what I'm saying. Maybe something like an MGM on, like imagine if they hold the MGM or something for the Purple Tape 2, and it elevates that album to almost comparable.
Speaker 1:You get what I'm saying it's like well, if you can hold the joint or two here or there why? Wouldn't you? The only niggas that know that it's old is you.
Speaker 3:But you gotta break down the science on that. Like, if you look at, you know we going off on a tangent, but I just say this real quick if you look at 36 chambers and you look at forever, you know, on 36 jZA had a solo and then Method man had a solo joint and then Ray and Ghost did their one, two thing on. Can it be all so simple? So they pretty much got their time to shine. So Black Shampoo was like a necessary evil on forever for you guys to get that off. Like you know I'm saying the city is a necessary evil for, like you know, I'm saying you guys to get that off. Like you know what I'm saying, the city is a necessary evil for, like you know what I'm saying, inspector Deck to get that off. On the project Sunshower with RZA, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:No, I get what you're saying, but what I'm trying to say is not. If you're not dropping their projects right after, it's not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah it has to be a lead up and I don't think Master Killer got his solo effort on a clan album until the W. You know I'm saying that the one blood joint. But I very much look at Forever, like you know, me and Chyna, both Marvel heads. I look at Wu-Tang Forever like Infinity War and Endgame and everything else was just a lead up prior to that and that was like a grand finale of sorts of Riz's five year plan. And then after Infinity War and Endgame we saw Marvel kind of take you know a dip which the plan did the same thing with the exception of Supreme Clientele. So I look at Wu-Tang very much like the Marvel. You know what I'm saying. Template damn.
Speaker 2:You smoked that we need to cut that. You smoked which.
Speaker 3:I said that shit first but you didn't so and probably weren't going to to cut that.
Speaker 2:I wish I said that shit first, but you didn't and probably weren't going to, and probably weren't going to. I think I was going to get there somewhere but that was a damn good point.
Speaker 3:I broke the idea.
Speaker 2:I blew breath in your lungs and gave you the idea, and I talked about Wu-Tang forever being a zenith. But no that's a damn good one bro.
Speaker 1:It's going to be kind of like a Wu-Tang-centric show, because we've got some albums to cover. But let's go ahead and get to our next album review, which is Freddie's you.
Speaker 2:We've got three Super Chats. We've got two big Super Chats, you've got.
Speaker 1:Super Chats Okay, tj, the Kid with the $5 Super Chat, just got here, guys, hope you guys are doing great, as always. Did I miss anything important? No, just me and AG schooling, sean, as usual, cj, you didn't miss anything at all CJ with the $10 Super Chat.
Speaker 1:Again, thank you, cj. We'll be touching on serious topics today because I wanted to bring attention and prayers to a certain legend. But if you don't want to touch that topic, I understand. Well, I mean, cj, we're always open to all sorts of topics. There are a lot of legends that need help. Okay, look at Sean. He's a legend in his own mind and his basketball career. He needs all kinds of help. So we can pray for Sean today. We can pray for him. We want to pray for CJ. Jermaine Johnson with the 499 Super Chat. Westside should now just focus on curating executive, producing full albums for other MCs within and outside of Griselda. That's his true calling. Fellas. What y'all think about that? Last thought before we slide to the Freddie.
Speaker 2:He's a necessary piece to the puzzle. You need the curation, but you also need what he brings to the table as well. He's a necessary piece. You take away that piece. If you don't get this West Side Gun album, you can tell there's a missing piece. You take away that piece. If you don't get this West Side Gun album, you can tell there's a missing piece to the puzzle. I would argue he's the most important piece.
Speaker 1:I would argue the puzzle doesn't exist without him. Yeah. I wouldn't argue that he's not just a curator, he's the architect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he is In that capacity. Yes, he is. Yeah, he's the architect. Yeah, he is In that capacity. Yes, he is.
Speaker 1:He's the architect of it. Now, when you're listening to his daughter she's talking about I'm in middle school now I've been telling y'all since I was three. I'm thinking to myself man, nice run, Nice run. When you're putting your three-year-old daughter on your records, and now she's in middle school, that means she's pretty much a teenager now. You know what I'm saying. That's a nice run to have.
Speaker 3:What year would y'all say, is their Zenith Like 01? I mean not 01, 21?, 22? Somewhere around there, I think so. I think 20.
Speaker 1:I think 18 to 21 is their Zenith.
Speaker 2:Okay, when we got to that point where we said you know what? I'm not surprised by the ad-libs anymore, or surprised by the coke talk anymore, I think that's when you start realizing you're starting to hit that zenith point, you're starting to hit that plateau point, because the trickery in those words they don't hit like they used to I just think it's their best album making time.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Mean as far as Tana Talk. Three Plugs I Met. Supreme Blindtail. Pray for Paris From a King to a God. Look what I Became. Everybody is. Food 2, the Black Tape.
Speaker 3:And you gotta figure they collaborated less after those years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I, I mean also too. I mean like well, if you look, and this is why I say it's 2020 it's 2020 is, I feel, like the year that they introduced stove and armani, yes, and so not only did they peak, but they also introduced new stars who still have our attention, and so I know we got to. So I know we got to move on.
Speaker 2:But that's the point, because Stove Project with Rock Marciano.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Reasonable Drought.
Speaker 2:To me none of them albums that we talked about is touching that, still, still.
Speaker 1:To date. You think Reasonable Drought's better than Pray for Paris? Absolutely, I think they're Drought's better than Pray for Paris. Absolutely, I think you're wild.
Speaker 3:I think they're both of five. Mike Adams, but for different reasons.
Speaker 2:I said that without hesitation.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, I love Reasonable Drought. I don't think Reasonable Drought's a five, though I love that album.
Speaker 2:We can tell without.
Speaker 1:No, we can have the conversation for another day behind the scenes. Reasonable drought is not better than pray for Paris. Shit, crazy. Talk George Bondo's better than everything. On reasonable drought You're bugging, Colin.
Speaker 2:I'm not bugging. Everything you can put them up on the station and go toe to toe. You don't want to do that.
Speaker 1:You don't want to do that. You don't want to do that.
Speaker 3:I've already did that and Sean and Tribe cheated, so I'm going to hero step all over your ass, literally.
Speaker 2:You don't want to do that that ain't cool a lot sent me a lot sent me I A lot sent me.
Speaker 1:I mean, you have to understand. You have to understand. Two of the best five tracks that may have come out of that camp are On Pray for Paris and A Lot Sent Me and George Bondo. I love Reasonable Drought. You don't have. I'm telling you you don't want to do that. Don't do that to Stove.
Speaker 3:It'll be interesting. I love both of those albums.
Speaker 2:Reasonable. Drought is a better listen, but yeah.
Speaker 1:We'll tip it out, okay, freddie Gibbs. Freddie Gibbs, speaking of consistently good Freddie Gibbs with you Only Die Once. Gibbs said he was going to take a little time off before he'd come back and he may not come back at all. Looks like he came back. He did take a year off. We definitely missed his presence all of 2023 pretty much Last time seen he was dropping Soul Sold Separately, which I thought was the culmination of what was one of the better rap album runs of modern era times, in my opinion. What do you think about is now that the hiatus is over? What do you think about Freddie coming back out to play again with you? Only Die Once. Ag, I'm going to let you take the reins on this one.
Speaker 3:I'm with you, coop, like Freddie, freddie, don't miss, freddie, don't miss, he don't, he don't, you know't miss, you know. Like you know, you know, and you said that, like the run was over at Soul, soul Separately, that run is still going, you know, and that culmination, oh okay, I got you. Yeah, the zenith of it.
Speaker 1:I feel like Soul Soul Separately was his victory lap.
Speaker 3:I got you. You know, I would say I would argue that outside of Nas and his Hit Boy, run, freddie's been the most consistent person in rap period. You know, if you go back to you know 20, bandana was what 2019? And then you got Alfredo, and then you got Soul Soul separately and now you got this, like this album, run is crazy.
Speaker 1:And you got Piñata before Bandana, theata before bandana well, piñata was a while ago.
Speaker 3:Um, I forget what year piñata came out. I was like 15, 16, 16, something like that. But yeah, I'm just talking about the last handful of years though yeah, I include piñata.
Speaker 1:I include piñata. And so how about this? When you talk about nas and the hit boy run ag, it's like I feel you, but it's like, well, freddie was making dope albums before nas and hit boy started making those albums while they were making those albums, and then we're still making albums as they were finishing that run. So if we're talking about consistent quality album making from this area, that's the conversation need to be had.
Speaker 3:He's actually that guy, in my opinion yeah, he, he is, he's, he's, he's super dope in that regard and, um, you know he's and this is actually a sequel to one of his other earlier albums you only live twice you know what I mean, correct which is dope.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a dope project. Yeah, nobody even talks about that and that's a fire project. And then you got to soul soul separately and you kind of continue like that scene, that theme. Somewhat he has like the devil kind of tempted him and harassing him throughout the course of the album is the concept of this project and whoever does that. You know I'm saying the voice of the devil was like hilarious. I thought it was D-Ray at first, the comedian. I thought I read somewhere that was somewhere else because it sounded like d-ray to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, but I mean freddy's always thematic. You got the concepts there and it's something about like you know those slow, soulful beats and samples, but benny coming um with a rapid fire flow over those slow beats you know what I'm saying, it's like a perfect marriage. You know a lot of people don't like his flow, but I think Benny be killing it. You know what I'm saying. He be having dope hooks and everything. And you just like you take Ruthless with the 112 sample, like you know who would thought you could attack that beat like that, you know what I'm saying? That beat flip like he killed that. And then it's your anniversary joint, like not only did he kill it.
Speaker 3:Flow wise the concept behind it. You know what I mean. Like you know the death anniversary of a cat, so it's just like I mean. All all these joints on here man, brick fees, wolverine is Yo, steel Doors. Origami is one of my favorites, like Freddie and I might be jumping out of the window, but the more I listen to this, I'll probably listen to it about 10, at least 10, 11 times. This is slap boxing for my album of the year. Like, if it doesn't, if it's not number one, it's going to land in the top three, for sure, for sure. Like I like this project that much, put my stamp on it for real, I'll give it a solid four and a half.
Speaker 1:Ooh, sean, crazy AG with the hot takes today, yeah man AG with the hot takes Crazy.
Speaker 2:I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1:Don't give us no warm shit, sean, give us more fire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, look, it's easy to listen to that album 10 times it's. I mean, look, it's easy to listen to that album 10 times only 37 minutes.
Speaker 1:Let's not be disrespectful. A lot of your favorite rap albums are under 40 minutes. I'm just saying.
Speaker 2:Here's what I would say. One of our conversations we talked about Gibbs. I kept asking y'all why y'all are so high on Gibbs. Have you got him rating the albums this high? Why you don't have him higher on your pantheon of rappers? That was my argument against you two, and I went back to this catalog.
Speaker 2:I wanted to get a better understanding of what my partners are feeling. This album was that sounded kind of wild. I hope you didn't take it that way. If you take it that way, then it sounds sound crazy to you, not to me. You should have paused that. I shouldn't.
Speaker 2:I could pause both of you right now. I was Saturday morning, I was listening to the album in the gym and Ruthless came on and I screenshot and I sent it to AG and I was like, is this what it is Like? Because I again, I'm still learning. He was surprised, I was surprised and I'm like why didn't young Sean thought about flipping the Cupid beat and rapping over Cupid beat? Right, I probably would have got the deal If I would have freestyled over the Cupid beat, one of my favorite songs of all time.
Speaker 2:It forced me to go back and listen to the out to the 112 album. Shout out to my whiz to listen to the um to that 112 album brought back memories. I'm like yo, he killed that cupid beat. So again, I was impressed by that, even flipping the anniversary beat.
Speaker 2:And to me, I really feel that when you do stuff like that, you're thinking outside the box, because no one has done that before and his flow was on point. Everything, lyrics, the comedy was there, the entertainment was there and I kept asking myself what is missing from Fred. What is missing? Is it the voice, inflection? Is it because he's from Indiana? What is it? What's keeping him from that opportunity to be like. You know what. What's keeping him from that opportunity to be like. You know what this is.
Speaker 2:He should be higher on our pantheon of rappers, based on the quality of music that he's putting out. Because this album is quality and I agree with you, ag, this album is slap boxing for that top spot and we're going to have a hard time when we get close to that you know the end of the year to really talk about who had the best albums of the year. I don't think we can really say one through. Whatever we may have to look at doing a tiering bracket here is tier one and here is tier two because this album, it competes with some of the albums that we felt were albums of the year contenders and I'll be honest, if you Start playing this album alongside them, maybe we are, maybe I'm recency biased right now. Maybe I'm like, okay, trying to understand my own feelings toward this album, but this is a really dope album. I'm not going to front.
Speaker 3:I'll share one man I'm trying to tell you, man Freddie.
Speaker 2:I won't go crazy and say 4.5. Um, I would definitely give it a good, a solid four, maybe a 4.2, maybe Because, again, I'm still learning. You know my, my, my thoughts around Gibbs. But dope out.
Speaker 1:I don't know. We know you're still learning. First of all, we know that you're still learning. That's evidence. That's every week when we go do playback and watch the tape.
Speaker 2:I keep evolving, you stagnant, I evolve. I know I can predict what you're about to say right now.
Speaker 1:Cause I know I can predict what you're about to say right now, because you're not involved, when you're as consistently brilliant as I am, when you're as consistently as brilliant as I am.
Speaker 2:Go ahead and say it. That's not brilliance. Go ahead and say it. Though. Go ahead and say it are you finished? No, no, go ahead.
Speaker 1:I want to hear it well you know what I found to be fascinating about this project Fascinating Yep Great, let's go. Are you done? No, go ahead.
Speaker 2:You can't fuck with me on this kind of level. I can do this all day, baby, let's go, go ahead. What do you want to?
Speaker 1:say. What I find to be fascinating about this project was actually that it made me realize how great his previous projects were and how people really haven't been giving him credit for how truly great he is. Because when I listened to this project, I thought this project might be the album of the year, like you all say, but it might be the worst project of the last five projects that he's made, which is astounding about how people are really not paying attention to how great his run is. Because when I listened to this project the first time I was like this project is really dope. Second time I was like this might be the album of the year. But the third time I was too. I was like hold on. I was like I don't think this is better than alfredo. I don't think it's better than soul's hole separately. I don't think it's been better than bandana. I don't think it's better than Bandana. I don't think it's better than Pinata.
Speaker 1:But that's the thing that's so consistently great about him is that he doesn't have to make his best rap album for it to be an album of the year contender. That's the most impressive thing about the album to me. He's strikingly versatile. He doesn't get enough credit for the soul samples that he uses, coming from gary indiana, and I think he just made it more blatantly obvious on this project with the anniversary and the cupid flip, because he's actually been doing this for a while now. He's been taking samples like this. He's just been taking more obscure samples and so I think he's like kind of blatantly putting it out more often. It's like oh no, no, I can wrap on the more popular samples a la like a Biggie, you know, puff, bad Boy, run type of thing.
Speaker 1:So I echo most of you guys' sentiments. I think it's a super impressive project. I think it might be album of the year. When you all talk about what Gibbs suffered from, I think what he suffers from is that for the style of music that he makes, I realize that your legend is kind of bigger when you have a bigger co-sign. Let's remember Pusher T is kind of what he is because the Neptunes co-signed it early when he was with the Clips and I feel like if the relationship with Jeezy had not been frayed and Jeezy had been in his corner at the start of his career and his come up it's in this album run I think that the masses might look at Gibbs a little bit differently, because the biggest thing that he's really lacking is a hit single. I think it's a combination of those things.
Speaker 1:He's lacking the hit records and the major cosign. Like, think about it, even have a grinding, you know what I'm saying, or something like that, like he would need something like that, but that's really all he's missing as far as album making. I think we just really need to have a discussion and he might be the best album maker of this generation, because that's what he really sounds like to me that's.
Speaker 3:That's all I care about. But let me let me ask you all this, because you know both y'all bring up good points. What you said holds true. You know that co-signing in the hit record, but I think it's also a little bit of where he's from. Like sean said, you know nobody's repping gary in indiana outside of the jacksons, so that has a lot to do with it. If you can't really relate to that area. We talked about bone thugs in harmony a week ago. So like when they was representing cleveland, they stood out so much that it made cleveland like a landmark area. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:And I don't think gibbs stands out that much to really bring attention to gary. And then some people don't get with his voice, some people don't get with his flow. But I think the number one thing that keeps people from recognizing his greatness is the same thing that plagues the discographies of the game and TI. It's the off. You know off the music antics where people don't want to give them their just do. Gibbs is going to be in that category. You look at TI's catalog, you look at game's catalog. They have top 10 catalogs in rap period. You know what I'm saying All time.
Speaker 1:All time.
Speaker 3:No lower than 15. I'm talking about solo artists. Solo artists, not including groups. Game and TI's discographies are both up there.
Speaker 1:up there, I might put Games above TI's. I don't know about TI's being top 10. Maybe Games is top 10. They're both top 20 discographies. I think 10 is who Easily easily.
Speaker 3:But even you know, even if they're fairly close, this is the same problem that's going to play Gibbs. Gibbs is going to have, like all these great and stellar albums, but he's not going to ever get that credit because of who his character is, you know. I'm saying when he's not doing the music.
Speaker 2:So I think that's the main problem in a group of problems why he don't get his due and that's why my argument was that argument about you guys are saying his catalog is here, but you have him here. Where's the disconnect?
Speaker 3:there's a disconnect yeah and then you know to coop's point about the hit record, some of that is it factor stuff. You know where you were saying that west side had the it factor. Freddie has been making better music but he lacks that it factor.
Speaker 1:I actually thought about the fact that he doesn't get enough credit as a beat picker, because when I played these projects back to back and set them next to each other today, you're right. How about this? Gibbs would probably be a multi-platinum artist if he was as charismatic as Westside is Like if you were to take his bars and put like Westside swag on it, like, yeah, I think you have a platinum rapper. So I don't know how to say this. Is he not personable enough? Like what is it that he's missing?
Speaker 3:I don't know what it is, because if you look at One Way Flight with Benny the most, the thing that grabs you the most about that record is the beat. But secondly to the beat is Freddie's hook, is it not? Yeah, the hook. You see what I'm saying. The hooks are there, the bars are there. The album making are there. The bars are there. The album making is there. The song, the beat picking, everything is there. He checks every box.
Speaker 1:But where is his moment which makes me say you both might be right, motherfuckers, just don't like him.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying where is his signature moment? Where is that moment where you say you know what, this is his moment?
Speaker 3:I think Alfredo was the moment. I think Alfredo.
Speaker 1:I think Alfredo, because Alfredo was the right album at the right time for his career, for the style of music that he makes, because it happened in a time where, because of the pandemic major label industry, artists were on ice, were on ice, and so it's the perfect time for somebody like him that had actually been making great projects for five, six, seven, eight years prior to that, to finally get there. Just do like grammy nominations. People who maybe not normally familiar with freddie gibbs in the style of rapping that he does, are now acquainted with them because their hip-hop void isn't being filled by the normal major label artists, because the major label artists aren't being put out, because all the labels are on ice right now and financial freeze and so I think that might be his moment and, like most people's moments, it has to do with the situation and the circumstance of the time.
Speaker 2:Like part of why.
Speaker 1:Illmatic is so important is the time that it came out. It came out at the right time.
Speaker 3:It came out right before everything changed right and let's keep it a, but this is something about Alfredo that nobody talks about. People want to talk about Alchemist Run in the 2020s. Alfredo was the album that made people check for Alchemist like that again but again that goes back to my point.
Speaker 2:Is that a Freddie signature moment or is that a combination of Al as well?
Speaker 3:it is for both of them. It's a signature moment for both of them not for him, I'm talking about him but that's like saying nas, nas's moment with hip boy is not a signature moment for him. It's a signature moment for him and hip boy. You can say that, but I mean it's still a signature moment it's still.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's. We're talking about a different run.
Speaker 3:We're talking about a different tears. Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:We're talking about a third run, that he's doing this at a high clip. Yeah, at that stage in his career when most in his career, in his arena or his class, his rap class, they're not dropping six albums, they're done, they're done. So that's his own signature moment within itself. I'm talking about Freddie's signature moment that we say you know what this is, why he is who he is. It's hard to say that. It's hard for us to even identify that.
Speaker 3:I think Soul Soul you know Coop alluded to this earlier where Soul Soul separately was that? I think how good that album was surprised a lot of people because he was coming off of Alfredo and Alfredo was classic status to a lot of people. But when he spun the block and sold separately to me was better than Alfredo. I think that raised a lot of eyebrows.
Speaker 1:I think the agility and complexity of sold separately is better. That's what I mean. Alfredo to me is what Freddie does best in a quick vacuum. I think he expands that Like I think on Soul Soul Separately. You see how big a fan of Pimp C he is. You don't see that on Alfredo. You know, I think on Alfredo you forget that this is, you know, jeezy sidekick sleeping on the couch opening up for local acts in the club. You hear that on Soul Soul separately. You know what I'm saying. So I think Soul Soul separately like gets more into his actual soul than Alfredo does. But there's something about the records on alfredo that are really like menacing and melodic, that just go perfect with his flow and his style. Like when I hear 1985 and scotty bean and baby, I'm like no, no, that's him at his best, in his best element. Soul soul separately is the display of all the talents a la murder music of sorts.
Speaker 3:But to be fair though, let's look at the year. If KD3 doesn't drop, soul Soul Separately is runaway album of the year.
Speaker 1:Easily. I said that on my former pod as far as that year is concerned, it was KD3, Soul, Soul, Separately Cheat Codes, and there wasn't even any other albums close to those three albums. In my opinion, it was like there were those three albums and then there was what everybody else made.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was those three albums and what everybody else made. And I had those albums 1, 2, 3, just like that, kd3, sss and Cheat Codes, and everybody else was just like. I was like, no, those albums are like exceedingly great and those and everybody else's projects are just okay this year, yeah, no doubt. All right, we're um, we're gonna slide to the next segment. We actually uh, I see why sean's wearing the park hill today, because it's really like a wu-tang forever type of moment. We're gonna be talking about all day.
Speaker 1:Um, into the wu-tang guys just is about to celebrate an anniversary. Actually coming up this weekend, november 9th, is going to make guys, 31 years since Enter the Wu-Tang 36 Chambers came out. It seems crazy to say that that album came out 31 years ago. This upcoming Saturday seems crazy to say. I personally am going to want to take the lead about the next classic album we're going to discuss, so I'm going to give either one of you guys the opportunity to set it off. The wax poetic about, in my opinion, what is one of the best 10 rap albums of all time. So maybe we start right there. Is into the wu-tang one of the 10 best rap albums of all time? Tell me yay or nay and tell me why Either way.
Speaker 3:Lead it off with the.
Speaker 2:Park Hills. Huh, in my opinion, yes, definitely top 10 for what it did for hip hop. I think that 36 Chambers took us into the different place of hip hop. You know, we were just coming out of the, you know, with 93, we were just coming off, still the high of the-hop. We were just coming out of the 93. We were just coming off, still the high of the West Coast. West Coast was still killing it. Doggy Style was already ramping up, the Chronic was ramping up. Everything was all West Coast at that time. Hip-hop was a variety at that time too, because you still had the MC Hammer era, you still had the dancing era. You had so much going on in hip hop. And then Wu-Tang came out of nowhere and you got the karate joints. You got the intro of a karate movie. You got all of the skits. You got these guys with masks on. You got like a whole group. You got nine members in one group.
Speaker 2:That's actually spitting fire, nine members on one album and it's only what like nine songs on there, like nine recorded rap songs on there and you got nine members. It's like 10, I think 10 or 11. Like 11. But, I think it wasn't like one or two of them, like a.
Speaker 3:That intermission. You know what I'm saying. Before I think it was Seven Chamber. That was one of my favorite beats man. That joint was hard.
Speaker 2:Crazy. And you know the thing about them there was no ramp up for them, there was like no roll out for them, it just like they just came, they just hit. And again this came out with 93, November 93, where we were still trying to figure out where East Coast hip hop was going, because East Coast hip hop was kind of irrelevant at that time. East Coast hip hop was really just, we just came out the Kane and Rakim era, so it was kind of a standstill. West Coast took over and now here comes Into the Woo and it's gritty, it's dark, it's grimy, it's grungy.
Speaker 2:To me it was one of the first albums, if not the first album, that represented the climate. I'm talking about the temperature, because it sounded like a November, December type album. It sounded like an album that you need to be wearing a jacket, a hoodie, download everything. That's what it felt like. It didn't feel like it was an album that could be placed nowhere else but the fall and winter time frame and it was a game changer.
Speaker 2:It changed every single. It changed the current of hip hop, because now you have nine members who's fitting, you have nine members who have a different personality. Then they had the monikers to go along with it. They had so much going on that it took us a while to catch up to it. We didn't catch up to Wu-Tang until probably 94, 95-ish maybe, when it started resonating with us. So they were so far ahead of their time because we couldn't understand what was going on during that time. So to me, hands down, it might be one of the most pivotal collective albums, or group albums, if you will, top three, in my opinion, group albums of all time, maybe top 10 album of all time.
Speaker 3:I agree, I agree, for me it's a top five album of all time. And I'll be brief because you know I echo the same sentiments as Sean. But you know, 12 year old me when that album first came out like, I can honestly say I don't think I've been as blown away by one particular album as I was by 36 Chambers. It's just like, uh, what the hell is this? You know what what I'm saying? Type of moment. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:You just everything you hear from the, you know what I'm saying, the Kung Fu samples we grew up on Kung Fu flicks and stuff, and then just what they were doing on the microphone, everything was just so like outside of the box of what hip hop was at the time. It was like so unorthodox. And then the gritty, grungy production was just crazy Like. For me, 36 chambers always was the antithesis of Illmatic. You know, illmatic was the classic that was one MC with a group of super producers, and then 36 chamber was one producer with a group of super mcs gotta cater to, like you know, eight, nine different styles and um, that's why rizzo will forever remain my favorite producer of all time to be able to, you know, craft that around so many different personalities and mcs. You know it was just just dope to me and um 36 chambers was it's like I a top five rap album of all time man and it was deeper than the music. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:We look, you know, like I said, this is a 12-year-old me we looked at the Wu like superheroes. We didn't even know what those cats looked like. You know what I'm saying. It's like yo, whoever spit in the first verse on the Mystery of Chess Boxing. You know like, who is that like? Who is that? You know we trying to learn all their names. You know I'm saying we're learning all their aliases. We're learning. You know I'm saying you finally get to see them in the video. Oh, that's ray kwan right there. You know you get to see what they look like. I mean it was just like it. I mean they were a whole movement. You want to talk about aura? You know wu-tang was that and still is that. You know it's a whole movement and it was bigger than just the music and it started with that album right there. Absolutely.
Speaker 3:But I'm a little bit salty with Wu-Tang. I'd be remiss if I didn't say I missed out on the Wu-Tang dunks. Today. I was real pissed off about that. I sat in line for about an hour, hour and a half trying to get those Wu-Tang dunks and I didn't get them. So you know, rza, anybody on the Wu staff, if you're watching, y'all need to send them my way. Because I'm pissed off about that. I copped the Mobularity. That should count for something.
Speaker 1:Send those sneakers my way, you're not the only one that suffered through a Mobularity. All right, I'm going crazy. The Mobularity has some joints on it. There's some joints on the Mobularity.
Speaker 1:That's better than the shit that's on the pillage 36 chambers sneakers alright it stops right there, it does it does stop right there into the Wu-Tang is still, to this day, the most innovative rap album ever created. I don't think people understand, and we probably didn't realize, that this and AG I love that you like kind of went into the 12 year old self to to speak to this. Listening to this album for the first time, listening to these songs for the first time, you would literally never heard anything like this before. It was dense, it was dark, it was choppy, there was kung fu samples, there were guys coming out of nowhere. The bar structure and the format changed rap forever because they were like fuck a bar format, fuck a bar seminar. We are the bar seminar because they said damn the structure. The structure is that niggas is nice to me to get on the microphone and we gonna find a way and chop it up. And so some guys got look at shame on a nigga. It's like Ray has like 10 bars. It's not even like it's 10 bars.
Speaker 1:It's like you got these 10 bars. Make these 10 bars work, nigga.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying then it was a conducive to radio play, but they didn't care yeah yeah, but they didn't know.
Speaker 1:It wasn't about the radio play, it was about we got too many talented dudes. We have to find a way to get these guys in. So it's like on the first verse, which is and. And there are a couple things I just want to run down right quick.
Speaker 1:First of all, ghostface has always been severely underrated. If you actually go back and listen to ghost on this album, you want to know what hurts ghost on into the wu-tang, that there are members of this group that, quite frankly, are some of the most lyrical guys that you've ever heard in your life. And the guys who aren't the most lyrical guys in your life have some of the best rap voices that you've ever heard in your life. And in the case of Raekwon it's actually both where he has one of the best rap voices you ever heard and he's lyrical. Ghost is great on enter the wu-tang. It just gets overshadowed by the fact that method man shows his ass on cream and method man and wu-tang clan ain't nothing to fuck with. That old dirty bastard shows his ass on chest boxing. And shame on a nigga ray is all over into the wu-tang.
Speaker 1:Ray is on. Bring the ruckus ray is on. Shame on a nigga. Ray is on Bring the Ruckus Ray is on Shame on a Nigga Ray is on Seven Chamber Ray is on Can it Be All so Simple? Ray is on Chest Bottom Ray is on Cream Ray is on Protect your Neck. Ray has always been the glue guy. Ray is all over this album, but the main takeaway from it that I really realized is that part of why these guys are all super lyrical is because the guy that they looked up to is actually the best MC on this album. Super lyrical.
Speaker 2:The.
Speaker 1:Jizz is the best MC in this crew on this album. He's the veteran, he's the vet. When you listen to these other guys rap, you can tell Ray is the star. But the Ray that we hear on Iron man in 96, that's not Ray in 93. That's not the same guy.
Speaker 3:The.
Speaker 1:Method man that even we hear on to Cal. That's not the method man that we hear. The old dirty bastard that we hear on Brooklyn zoo that's not. That's. That's not the same guy. The only guy that's actually the same guy when you come back around and hear him again, is the jizzer, which lets you know that, like he was the one that they were all you can actually hear inspector deck on the album trying to rap like the jizz. You know what I mean. Like that's his template. He's trying to rap like the way that the jizz of raps, you know he always took a back seat, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did, he did so. Yeah, one of the most important rap albums of all time. One of the most important rap albums of all time. One of the greatest rap albums of all time. I still think the most innovative rap moment in history. They are our superheroes because of this. Like, I still remember that moment. Okay, so, guys, the first song that I heard was Chess Boxing. When I moved into my aunt's house, when I moved back to Charlotte, my cousin Six was playing Chess Boxing. When I walked in the room, you understand, like, when I heard Old Dirty Bastards verse, I was like what the fuck is that? I didn't know what that was. I didn't even know if that. I was like, is this a rap album? I was like you guys.
Speaker 1:It's like a kung fu flick, but it's like rock and roll, but it's like rap. This guy is screaming out Ghostface Killer. I don't know who the fuck Ghostface Killer is. I don't know who the fuck Ghostface.
Speaker 2:Killer is. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean, but you wanted to find out. I wanted to be there, think about it, think about how innovative. Just that is Just dirty saying that is worth a million dollars, because think about how many times it's been used. Ghostface Killer Niggas didn't do that on rap records before. No.
Speaker 2:No, no. Speaking of psych it's the God. Get your Shit Right on rap records before. No, no, no.
Speaker 1:Speaking of the sight it's the God that you should write yeah, I'm like the way my ass is overstocking over my face and went to school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was 13. Y'all got my ass whooped when my mom socked it over my face. I don't know what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1:Like Method, like method man, the actual record method man. People didn't rap like that, like people didn't have flows and cadences like like that you heard from these guys. So it was something completely different. It came completely out of nowhere. It shook up the rap world, the music community. Rap has never been the same. Uh, it's wu-tang forever. And that's the album that started it all. And now we're going to slide to, I think, the album that culminated what is the greatest run in rap history, which is Liquid Sword. This is actually celebrating its 29th anniversary today.
Speaker 2:Yep, because we got into the super chat.
Speaker 1:Man, it better not be Mad Max.
Speaker 3:Mad Max catches trace.
Speaker 1:DJ, the Kid with the $5 Super Chat. Don't forget Midnight Marauders also celebrates an anniversary too. Down, down play, just because we still got to do that station here.
Speaker 3:Are you playing?
Speaker 1:on Midnight Marauders Sean CJ is crazy man. Are you playing on Midnight Marauders?
Speaker 2:Not at all. Cj crazy? Not at all.
Speaker 1:As much as I love Midnight Marauders though Not at all, CJ crazy Not at all as much as I love Midnight Marauders. How about this? Let me go ahead and lead into this. Well, Liquid Swords is better than Midnight Marauders. That's how highly I hold Liquid Swords.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, yep, that's an elevated shaft, that is murderous.
Speaker 1:Check the print. Swear veterans, fark the letter. A slow-moving MC is waiting for the editing. The liquid soluble that made up the chemistry, gaseous element that burnt down your ministry, herbal vapors and biblical paper smoking X and dust. Every square yard is flushed. Fuck the screw. Face photo sessions. Facial expression leads impressions. Try to keep us sharpening against it.
Speaker 3:Lyrical masterclass.
Speaker 1:Look here, try to keep a sharp lyrical masterclass. So when I tell people that the best three mic performances of all time are Nas on it Was Written and Rock Him On Let the Rhythm Hit Him, and Big On Life After Death, what I never get to say is guess what. Number four is Liquid Swords by the Jizz. As far as mic performances go, bar for bar, rhyme for rhyme, it is the fourth best mic performance of all time and I only put big's mic performance ahead of the jizzes about the versatility of the performance because, lyrically speaking, it's a better mic performance than life after death.
Speaker 1:Lyrically speaking, it's very, very, very, very comparable to let the rhythm which is about the highest compliment that I could pay any solo mc which puts it in it was written territory in terms of the lyrical complexity. Um, the jizzle on living in the world today alone. How about this like lyric lyrically speakingle on living in the world today alone. How about this Like lyric lyrically speaking him on living in the world today. Dual of the iron Mike. That's just as good as everything lyrically on it was written with the exception of I gave you power and take it in blood. That's the level that he is rapping at on this album. It goes extremely understated and unappreciated. I actually think the best run of songs on any Wu-Tang album is on this album, which is the run from 4th Chamber all the way to the end. You all remember the first time you heard the beat to 4th Chamber come in. It was like you swore Armageddon was coming.
Speaker 1:It was like man these guys are different yeah, and this is after the first half of the album where you're hearing lyrically some of the best stuff you've ever heard before, like Labels, killer Hills 103.04. These are stories and lyrical exercises and mic performances that are nothing short of astounding. Fake Fake niggas getting blistered, mike fights her, swing swords and cut clowns. Shit is too swift to write. You record and write it down. I flow like the blood on a murder scene, like a syringe on some wild-out shit to insert a theme. But it was your art, the shop-stolen art. Catch a swollen heart for not going smart, put mad pressure on phony, whack rhymes and get hurt. Shit's played like Zodiac signs on sweatshirts. It's minimal.
Speaker 2:It's minimal.
Speaker 1:He's like this. The whole album he's just playing. And if you actually want to talk about entertainment, value for lyricism, nobody's actually been this lyrically entertaining for an album about lyrics. Yeah, like it was written, has mafioso themes. Let the rhythm is. Hit them as much as I love, let the rhythm hit them. It's not as entertaining as liquid swords. The beats aren't better, it's not as entertaining. So if we're actually talking about lyrical mic performances ever, not only is it the fourth best mic performance of all time, but lyrically it's the most lyrically entertaining mic performance of all time. Because look at how we all know the words to this super lyrical, highly articulate, super metaphorical rapping-ass, rapper, bar seminar, founding definition, defining inclusion.
Speaker 1:The whole album is a bar seminar whole album is a bar, seminar, restaurants on the stakeout to order the food to take out. Chaos outside the spark steakhouse. Maintain the power, feels the deals gone sour nigga whist the wind late, a fucking half hour. He's so descriptive and so vivid. It's only it's literally like it's literally, only it was written. It's lyrically more vivid in its imagery of like street tales and distortion. Think about the. Think about the weaker songs on here, like I got you back in gold, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Those are the weaker songs and and for the chamber and shadow boxing. Just production wise is you know.
Speaker 2:Those are two of riz's 10 best beats, maybe five yeah, you know, yeah different, I don't know what else to say about this album?
Speaker 1:I still tell people that, like in terms of my personal list, I have it ahead of albums that people love, like midnight marauders and reasonable doubt. Moment of truth it's dark and hell is hot. I love liquid swords more than I love all of those albums, and I think that it's better Shout out to the Jizzit Jizzit Genius Even. Rza ad-libs Yo RZA flip the trip.
Speaker 2:Just even this by itself, everything about this album, everything about the album, is classic.
Speaker 3:Can I speak to that next song, or do you want to go?
Speaker 2:No, go ahead please.
Speaker 3:I'm going to take a different angle than Coop, because Coop smoked that. You know what I'm saying, because this is one of the best lyrical displays ever in the history of rap. But you know, for me and Sean, you alluded to this earlier with it being the producer's moment just as much as the rapper's moment, this is just as much of a RZA highlight as it is a GZA highlight. Gza, like this had to. You know what he's doing with the lyrics, is like crazy difficult to maintain over the length of an album. But if you really break down the process of making this album, jizz's job was fairly easy. Rizzo said that jizz had heard the album when it was done. When it was completed, like rizzo attacked this album like he was scoring a movie and he said jizzo, you just show up and you just rap. Give me the bars. If you look at this album, jizzo doesn't really have any hooks on the album. No, you don't need. All he had to do is just show up and rap. And usually I would take points off of that. You know for that because like, okay, you don't have a hook game, but rizzo was so masterful and like yo, I'm gonna get you god for this hook on investigative reports. So I'm gonna get dirty on dual, on the iron mic or whatever, like he filled in those gaps masterful. And like yo I'm going to get you guard for this hook on Investigative Reports. Or I'm going to get Dirty on Iron Mike or whatever. He filled in those gaps, like a true producer does, and masked what could have been a deficiency for GZA if he had to do his own hooks. I think this is a testament to RZA's genius, just as much as it is to Jizz's genius, and it's a flawless album.
Speaker 3:Flawless album, like you know, it's probably a top 20 hip-hop album of all time. You know, as far as in the Wu solo catalog I have it ranked third. You know what I mean and that's nothing to sneeze at. You know what I mean. So I mean it's just just a classic. I think this and supreme is a conversation. You know, if you rank in second, I ain't mad at it. But you know, and and for just for the record, I'd be remiss if I didn't say this this is my favorite hip-hop album cover of all time period. The artwork shout out to mathematics. You know I'm saying wu-tTang. Dj Wu-Tang, producer drew the artwork for the album cover. So you know, just all around, classic, from the aesthetics of the album cover, to the bars, to the production, it's like no blemishes on this album whatsoever. Period.
Speaker 1:Oh, and three of the best Wu-Tang posse cuts are on here. Because, you know the Iron Mike investigative reports and Force Chamber.
Speaker 3:Listen. I was at Shadowbox and it was crazy. I was at a concert Rage Against the Machine with the Wu-Tang Forever concert. When 4th Chamber came on, the white boys in the mosh pit lost their minds. You know what I'm saying Because you had the rock crowd from Rage Against the Machine. Seeing that crowd go crazy to fourth chamber, I was like it was bugged out. It was bugged out.
Speaker 1:Fourth chamber hits like that that's like like the beat the fourth chamber is like what they play at the end of the infinity war, like like you know what I'm saying? Yeah, fact, superhero shit sean nah, y'all sum it up.
Speaker 2:You know how I feel about this album. It's one of those.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna rehash it bar seminar, man bar seminar. I listen to all these albums that we're talking about. I listen to them all today and the jizz is just level of lyricism. What was most striking about the album? It stands out. It's so extremely high level. You immediately have to go to Rockin and Nas and Black Thought to find just comparable bars in general to what's going on here and very understated a la Purple Tape is how the guest appearance artists show up. No, the Inspector Dex verse and Master Killer's verse on Dula Iron Mike. That's two of their best verses. Is it better than their verse on Guillotine and Glaciers of Ice? No, but it might be the next best verses that they did on the Wu-Tang Project.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's up there, that's you guys' best hook on investigative reports. Fourth Chamber on investigative reports fourth chamber in investigative reports is Ghost's real coming out party, where it's like, oh shit, like Ghost's him like when I heard him say why is sky blue? Why is water wet? Why did Judas grab the Romans while Judas slept?
Speaker 2:I was like hold on. I'm like Ghost's different. I'm like Ghost out.
Speaker 1:Here rhyming different right now Ghost's about that.
Speaker 2:He was hitting his stride then that's the stride moment for me.
Speaker 1:That's like when Ghost started becoming all-time great to me is actually on.
Speaker 3:That verse I'm like oh shit.
Speaker 1:I am going to be sipping rum out of Stanley Cup. I was like, oh shit. I was like this is crazy. I was like this is real rock star superhero, like rap shit going on. That they got going on and a lot of that takes place on Liquid Swords, like for me. Like the Purple Tape is their street album. This is their rap album.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know what I'm saying, like, if you're into the craft of emceeing, this is the album that the people who love emceeing flock to in the Wu catalog the way this was positioned.
Speaker 2:It sounded like it was the follow up to 36 Chambers. Yep, very much so. This was made. Rza probably had this one done in 94. He probably had the beat selections and everything this one done in 94. He probably had the beat selections and everything the layout done in 94. It was just a matter of timing of getting it out, because this was like the follow-up to 36 Chambers, because we already had got Takao Takao was like the different chamber to 36 Chambers Right after that. Then you have Return to the 36. Think about that, fellas. Rizzo was on a roll, rza was going crazy.
Speaker 1:The purple tape Liquid Swords turn in particular is just the best selection of beats that you'll find from a producer 95, RZA was insane. Yeah, think about this. People forget that he did stuff like Shimmy, shimmy Y'all earlier that year.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm saying like just yeah, 95 earlier than you, it's 95 earlier than you. Can I ask both of y'all a question which do y'all think is the greatest leap in hip-hop history, from a freshman album to a sophomore jizzle on words from the genius to liquid swords or mob deep, from juvenile hell to the infamous?
Speaker 1:mob deep. And I'm going to tell you why because the jizzle still had a couple of records on words from the genius where you were like, okay, like life of a drug dealer, which is where killer hills 103 or 104 comes from. There was still some stuff on there that you could trace. There were still traces of that guy on Liquid Swords. I don't think the Mob Deep that we know that exists existed until the infamous. They literally killed off the guys from Juvenile Hill, hit it from the back, had a little track.
Speaker 3:Hit it from the infamous. They literally killed off the guys from Juvenile Hill. Yeah, I mean, they hit it from the back. Hit it from the back.
Speaker 1:Isn't that the Prem joint?
Speaker 3:I don't know if Prem did that or not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, prem did one of the joints. I feel like Prem did hit it from the back, but yeah, that's what I mean. They scrapped their whole persona and came back with something different. The GZA didn't scrap his whole persona, he just elevated his persona, in my opinion, what you got, Sean.
Speaker 2:I say GZA because I think that even when you think about it, exit the genius into the GZA, even though into the woo he dropped everything he was before because he was on that super love flow back then. On the words of genius, On Diverse and Genius, I think Amab Deep.
Speaker 1:They wanted him to be Kane. They wanted him to do some Kane shit.
Speaker 2:That's the crazy thing. Because he was comparable, he just didn't have the panache that Kane had.
Speaker 1:He wasn't as charismatic as Kane. He wasn't as charismatic or as good looking. He was a comparable MC?
Speaker 2:I think Amab Deep. That's a great question, hd. I think, amab deep. I just think they grew. I just think it was you're talking about, uh, growing up at that time, you know they grow up, they grew up and now you get the infamous right and they had.
Speaker 3:They had the pressure of following up illmatic.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying illmatic was the blueprint for them. That's how to get to the next level, just a different blueprint in front of him. He just did what he wanted to do in the first place. He just elevated naturally, he elevated organically.
Speaker 3:Right Dope.
Speaker 1:Another super chat from CJ, the Kid Coop. Whose side are you on? I'll battle them on station here by myself.
Speaker 2:Cj first of all, you need to watch. This CJ is aggressive. You need to stop with all caps.
Speaker 1:The all caps are very aggressive. Cj Very aggressive with all caps. He is great. Cj is aggressive. I didn't say that I thought Wu-Tang was. I mean that the native tongue was going to beat Wu-Tang. I just felt like Sean was being disrespectful by saying he's going to wash it.
Speaker 2:I don't sound disrespectful.
Speaker 1:He's backpedaling already. I still think there's a chance that Wu-Tang will win. There'll be no washing of the native tongues, okay, there'll be none of that. Who doesn't need to talk about native tongues? Because something crazy goes by? Speaking of hanging around Sean, I'll be hanging around Sean this Saturday at the Summer Soul Music Festival in Shelby, north Carolina. I'm sure you've seen us all over our social platforms promoting it. Shout out to LT. The three of us will be together for the first time in the same place this Saturday. That's worth the price of admission, in my humble estimation. I want to find a basketball court to see if Sean can play like he says he can. First thing, we're going to find a basketball court. No, no, no. You just bring some shorts.
Speaker 2:Bring it up, bring us some shorts. It's crazy.
Speaker 3:If Sean calls you up, I'm gonna be dead, I'm gonna be rolling.
Speaker 1:You got to be cool. Then you on the court. Oh man, I have to get you on the court and see what you can do. I don't get into this rap shit Shout out to LT. Yeah, shout out to I. I have to get you on the court and see what you can do before I get into this rap shit Shout out to LT. Yeah, shout out to.
Speaker 2:Rally North Carolina. I got my team in North Carolina right now. Y'all got some bad stuff going in Rally man. Y'all bugging out, Shout out to my team in Rally Shit.
Speaker 1:All right, also, guys late, great Tupac Shakur celebrated the anniversary Machiavelli, november 5th 1996, 28 year anniversary for Machiavelli. What are your takeaways from Machiavelli? My favorite Pac album yeah mine too.
Speaker 3:I think he was at his best as an MC on this album, more so than his previous. You could say All Eyes On Me has better songs. But Pac, the MC, was at his best on this album and you know a lot of people think it was watered down by the outlaws features. But on this album, you know, I I enjoyed the outlaws features but um it it was more concise, um, as compared to all eyes on me and um, you know he was just in a different bag when this album, the beats, like the production, was like, you know, some of the best that pock has, I think, and it just you know. I just love this album from top to bottom and it's my favorite part, joint. You know what I mean yeah same here same here.
Speaker 2:Very, um very interesting album came out. Came, of course, came out at an interesting time, um. You know what the story is behind this. You know there was so much speculation in 96 when this album came out um like pop still alive that you know they had people saying, oh, he should kill me. It was all kind of weird stuff around this album. It was just so much going on 87 macabelly tapes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, it was going crazy, even the artwork to this album. There was just so much going on 87 Machiavelli tapes. Yeah, man, it was going crazy. Even the artwork to this album was crazy because you had you know, I think he's big on there you had Puff, you had Drake, you know, it was just a very interesting space that Pac was in, pac was in war mode and Machiavelli was just that. He dissed everybody Jay Nas, big Dre. He dissed Dre on it. Yeah, everybody was getting it. No one was safe at that time. This was Pac's in his I guess his final form, if you will, if you really think about it, because at this time he was the one, he was literally the one at this time there was nobody else.
Speaker 2:We can say what we want to say. We can try to rewrite history. Pac was the one at this time. His ultimate demise, or his unfortunate demise, came off the heels of this as well, or came before this Dope album. I had some hard feelings about this album during the 896, but I grew to appreciate it what'd you say, aj?
Speaker 3:I was just asking what some of y'all's favorite tracks.
Speaker 2:Bon Forrest was dope man, I'm not gonna lie, to kick it off like that with that beat and you're just going crazy like that at the gate. That's, that was tough.
Speaker 3:Like on front, that was tough the lyrical version of well, I don't want to say it wasn't lyrical, but like the growth that I've seen as the mc comes on songs like blasphemy. You know White Man's World and I Love to Live and Not Die in LA. Those are my favorite joints. That's a sad song to me though. I can see that.
Speaker 1:I still think Me Against the World and All Eyes on Me are better than Machiavelli. But I do agree with you, ag, as far as the MC that is, tupac. The best version of the MC is actually the last two versions that we got of him. People forget he died when he was 25. What if I told you he was actually getting better as an MC Now? Maybe the songs, maybe he wasn't under some of the strife that he was under because he wasn't, like you know, getting shot and being charged with aggravated sexual assault, which will prompt you to make songs like Death Around the Corner and so Many Tears and Dear Mama and Temptations that live, you know, in the lexicon of black hip hop music forever because of the classic nature of the songs and the themes and the empowering of his voice. So I don't think that Machiavelli has the classic songs that me against the world or all eyes on me has. It doesn't have that. But the songs are great enough and, man, he is astounding as a rapper, which is one of the least talked about things, about the project, because of the subject matter of the album. People forget this is somebody whose timing has an artist whose delivery, whose flow, whose cadence, whose pattern, whose versatility, ability to switch speeds as far as rhyme faster, rhyme slower, rhyme more melodic, how to use your voice in certain spaces, how to stack ad-lib hook. It is actually one of the masterclasses that you could have on how to approach the microphone from all angles, which is what he did on Machiavelli, which is probably because you guys are both hip-hop heads. You probably hear all those things and you love all of those things.
Speaker 1:I just don't love the guy on this album. I'm going to be honest, the guy on this album is very divisive. That's not the guy that I bought into and fell in love with. So, although I love this music, I don't love this album like that because of that, because he's never sounded better as a rapper, but I've never been more worried or troubled about the things that he's saying as a person. So when I'm hearing records like Crazy Bomb, first Hail, mary Blasphemy, all Eyes on Me, me and my Girlfriend, to Live and Die in LA no, these records are brilliant and he sounds brilliant, but he also sounds trouble. He also sounds too focused on wanting to ruin this, these other people's empire, when the POC that I grew up on was all about building the empire within the community, and so, like I just don't love, I declare war. Poc, as much as I love, keep your head up, I get around dear mama Pac.
Speaker 3:He definitely had different versions.
Speaker 1:Ambitions as a rider. Pac, and no more pain, pac, and picture me rolling, pac. That's as far as with that Pac that I'm riding. I'm not riding into Machiavela territory, you know. Bye, bye, bye, let's get high and ride. Murder lyric and I'm not gonna cry. I'm a bad boy. Killer jay-z died looking out for mob. Weak motherfuckers don't deserve to breathe. No, no, it sounds great.
Speaker 1:That's not the guy that I'm riding with, though I'm riding with the guy that's gonna picture me rolling talking about y'all. Look mad that I got out. Oh, busters like laughing at me Like that's the Pac that I love. You know what.
Speaker 3:I'm saying Machiavelli is him on 10.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he on 10 on Machiavelli. I want him on 10 about the community, about his mama.
Speaker 2:Like you know what I'm saying, mama you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I don't want to get more intent about these niggas.
Speaker 2:It was the climate, though, the climate of Phil Pop at that time.
Speaker 3:Very tense.
Speaker 2:It was a very tense climate. Man 96 made me afraid to go to the West Coast. I was afraid Even when I got into the military. I thought the Marine Corps was going to send me to San Diego or Camp Pendleton in California. I was like I do not want to go to. I did everything in my mind to get myself prepared. If I had to get stationed on the West Coast Because I went to boot camp I was out by 98. I'm two years removed. I'm still traumatized by this album and everything that took place around this time.
Speaker 3:So it was wartime.
Speaker 2:It was literally wartime against two different coasts and he was the major figure. It was wartime. It was literally wartime against two different codes. He was the major figure to that. He was really the light and the fire to all of that. It's a very dark album, very controversial album, aggressive album, all of those things.
Speaker 3:Real aggressive.
Speaker 1:Actually, I was about to say one of the more controversial things about the album now, and it kind of was then and we've kind of glossed over it. Well, I mean, the artwork on the album gives credence to some things that are currently going on Exactly.
Speaker 3:They had a lot of people talking back then. But real quick, coop. I wanted to add something else to your point about this him in his final form and like what I said about him being the best version of himself as an MC. You could tell that not only on this album but songs during this era that didn't make the album, that was on soundtracks, like Staring Through my Rearview and Made Niggas and Joints Like that Pac was getting better. You know what I mean. I just you know taking away too soon.
Speaker 1:Man, you want to know what it was. He was recording at the pace that. I think he was recording before, but he had been doing it for longer now. That's what I mean. It's like when you're becoming a master of your craft. It's like people forget. Well, his rap career just started in 1990. He got locked up in 93, 94.
Speaker 1:He's coming back out in 90, you know what I'm saying. In 96, this is like you know you got to look at. It's like no, this is like year number four, five, six, four, four star quarterback. It's like that's. When you start seeing the guy, it's like, oh shit, this motherfucking ball yeah yeah, this.
Speaker 1:no, you can leave my franchise for another 10 years. It's like we probably didn't hear. I mean, we know People don't understand this. We know we didn't hear Big's best stuff about the brevity, but because Pac did so much while he was here, we forget to ask the question did we hear his best stuff? Because he was getting better. When we last heard him too, it wasn't just Big that was getting better last time we heard him. The last versions that we heard of Pac were astoundingly greater than the previous versions, just like Big.
Speaker 1:Good point, yeah, and so we may not have gotten the best of Pac either, and that's why I didn't want him, on what he was on, not have gotten the best of Pac either, and that's why I didn't want him on what he was on. Because him think about this the guy that made Dear Mama goes back to those types of messages but is a better rapper. That is a genre changing type of thing. He was already a genre changing type of rapper. Imagine if the rapper with the best content and the best voice that knows how to make you feel more than anybody, starts rapping lyrically at the level of a Nas and a Rakim consistently Like. Imagine what that looks like. Yeah, so speaking that rhyming at a. That's not that's not Max.
Speaker 1:Michael Williams with the $5 Holla Holla. Yesterday was the 17th anniversary of American Gangster. Where do you have it ranked in Jay's catalog? To me that's one of his best mic performances. I don't agree that it's one of his best mic performances because I don't think it's one of his three best mic performances, which is kind of like how I would rate it. But I would tell you that American Gangster is maybe a top five J, but if so it's fifth.
Speaker 3:I have a fourth or fifth. I go back and forth between that and volume one for four and five.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, I have volume one, clearly like ahead of that.
Speaker 2:I have it touching it now.
Speaker 1:Okay, cj, the Kid with the $5. Mob, went from being Queen's version of the youngsters on Juvenile Hell to one of the greats that could rival Titans of the Golden Era on Infamous. I actually think they helped start the Golden Era when I think of hardcore.
Speaker 2:East Coast hip-hop.
Speaker 1:I think of Mobb Deep. They helped start the Golden Era of East Coast hip-hop. To me, I think of hardcore East Coast hip-hop. Mobb Deep is immediately the sound that I go to, which is why I have Havoc ranked so high as a producer, because I feel like he's the architect of arguably the most popular East Coast sound in the history of rap. Let's get to our last. We got another one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got another one.
Speaker 1:Okay, just popped up CJ the Kid with the $10 Super Chat. All love Coop Caps on aggression, but more so shock CJ Kid. Very, very good. This Toastmasters has been excellent for you, sir, very good at formulating your words. Now, even if it's true, do we not acknowledge it? For the time being, none of the Wu albums from 93 to number 7, 93 to 97, are better than the low end. I don't agree. Into the Wu-Tang and the Purple Tape are better. No, cj, no, are better than the low end. But I would tell you that the low end and Into the Wu-Tang are comparable albums though. Yeah, so it is one of the albums that gets deserved to be mentioned with Into the Wu-Tang, but Midnight Marauder's not so much. Is that all for the Super Chat? So we slide into our last.
Speaker 1:Oh oh, oh, oh live. Thought we're going to start calling our classic album review sections Rewind that. You like that? Yeah, hopefully these hating-ass busters out here don't take that from us. A lot of you dudes out here using words like bar seminar and soundscape Don't act like you don't know where you got it from. Anyway, last one volume one by Jay in my lifetime, november 4th 1997, 27 year anniversary. In a lot of ways, guys, I feel like this is Jay's best lyrical performance. I know people say that the mic performance on Reasonable Doubt and the Blueprint is better end to end, and that might be true. But if we're just talking about Jay talking his shit and wrapping his ass off, I think this might be the album and I still prefer the Volume 2, volume 3, the Dynasty American Gangsta Blueprint 3. I personally have it. 3, but that's my personal list. What about you guys? Sean?
Speaker 2:Can you go to AG? I have to think about it. You said you have them at 3?.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh no. 4, black Album. I forgot about the Black Album. I got it at 4. It's comfortably at 4. It would go Reasonable. Doubt Blueprint Black Album, volume 1.
Speaker 3:Yeah, go, reasonable doubt, blueprint, black album, volume one. Yeah, I, I get, I get, I go back and forth between, uh, american gangster and volume one. I think american gangster tapped back into something that we was missing with um jay for a while and you know it's curated as a great front to back album where volume one is a little bit more all over the place, a little bit more messy, with some, some of the misses. But to your point, coop, his mic performances he's more polished than what he is on reasonable doubt. So if we're going off my performance alone as a buy-in, then you, I don't have no problem with you putting it over american gangster. Um, and you know, let's be honest, like uh, it's far and away better mic performance wise than the blueprint. The blueprint just sounds better as an album.
Speaker 3:I think he's rapping better on the black album, even more so than he is on the blueprint. You know, I'm saying as far as what he's spitting, so, um, but volume one, as far as what he's doing on the mic, like he just didn't have those hit records to boot. But as far as who, what, who he was as an mc, he was up there with the, with the best, with the bigs, the nazis. You know I'm saying the prodigies, like it was there, you know. But just to you know sean's point with the freddie gifts thing, he just wasn't getting the notoriety to go along with it. But you know, sean carter is the smart businessman. He put himself in that race who's the best MCs? Biggie, jay-z and Nas? He put himself there and he stayed there from that point forward and that happened on that album.
Speaker 2:It did it did. The highs on this album are really really high, super high, really high, and it overcome the lows. Because the lows? Right, because the lows are the songs that I think he was chasing the bad boy song. When you got a song like I Know what Girls Like you know I cannot stand that song. When you got, I didn't even like Always Be my Sunshine he was-. I could deal with Sunshine, I could steal it. I just don't like it.
Speaker 3:I don't like nothing about that song, but when you got streets of watching on there, I don't care that sunshine's on there.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. The highs are so high that it just blocks out the lows. I think I just yeah.
Speaker 1:It was kind of sneaky Because of the uneven nature of the album. I think we forget how truly breathtaking the songs that are great on there are because it made us forget about those moments. He was so breathtakingly great, I mean, with this album. Lyrically he did jump over a lot of great MCs and I think that's what people forget about this album.
Speaker 1:This album is the album where has an MC, in terms of his notoriety amongst his peers, grew because of these records? You know, because streets is watching. I remember when streets is watching an imaginary players drop. No, those were the type of records that made other rappers afraid about the level that he was rapping at the way that he was talking. If I shoot you, I'm famous. If I shoot you, I'm brainless. But if you shoot me, you're famous. What's a nigga to do when the streets is watching blocks keep clocking waiting for you to break? Make your first mistake. Can't ignore it. That's the fastest way to get exhorted and my time is money at 25. I can't afford it. Beef assorted like Godiva, chocolates, niggas imported. I pull a slot back and cock it. He was rapping his ass off.
Speaker 1:We hadn't heard very we had heard very few guys rap like that with that ease and make it sound cool, and so I think it's one of the more understated moments of his career because he's never stated it properly, he's never really performed these records, he's never done these songs if he goes to where I'm from.
Speaker 3:I've seen jay-z live twice he does where I'm from, okay I mean that's probably my.
Speaker 1:I mean that and imaginary players are probably my two favorite jay records on there and two of my top five five j records. But if we're talking about his 20 best songs, well, I mean shit about six of them are on this album, in my opinion that's why I hold it so high how do y'all feel about faith off?
Speaker 1:a million one questions and rhyme no more. Is the top 20 j song correct? Yeah, for sure. Imaginary players, top 20, right. Yes. Streets is watching top 20, right. Yes, where I'm from is top 20, right, yes. Streets of Washington top 20, right. Yes, where I'm from is top 20, right. Top five for me Right. So then it becomes like how you feel about you Must Love Me. Fender Phone 98, face Off.
Speaker 3:Do you like Face Off?
Speaker 1:I love Face Off.
Speaker 3:I like Face Off. I don't think it's one to cut. But if you cut off Face Off, I like Face Off. I don't think it's one to cut. But if you cut off, I Know what Girls Like and Sunshine, and that takes it down to what 12 tracks.
Speaker 1:And City is Mine. That has to go too. Take that one too. Okay, take that one too.
Speaker 3:All right, 11 tracks. This is one of the greatest albums of all time.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to hold you If you take those three records off. How?
Speaker 3:I don't know about that, but it'll be close, it'll be close.
Speaker 1:Reasonable Doubt has some moments that like how about this? And this is nothing against it. But if we start getting funny about it, well, friend or Foe is great, that beat's not Okay Coming to age.
Speaker 3:That's one of the weaker Primo beats yeah.
Speaker 1:I love the rhyme, the Cashmere Thoughts, the beat, beat, I don't know. There's some moments on Reasonable that where it's like eh.
Speaker 3:Then Can I Live Too. Is not that good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but again the highs are so high that you forget those little points. That was Jay's recipe, jay's recipe for every album. I don't want to go in this rabbit hole. He had high, high songs, but he also had a bunch of eh eh, eh, but we the hole. He had high, high songs, but he also had a bunch of eh eh, eh, but we didn't talk about the eh eh eh. We talked about the joints that were really really high. I'll just leave it at that. I don't want to go in that rabbit hole.
Speaker 2:We already you know.
Speaker 3:We know how you feel about Jay.
Speaker 2:I'm a Jay fan, yeah.
Speaker 3:That yell at the end of that was to convince yourself. Right, right, that yell at the end of that was to convince yourself, right, that's like.
Speaker 1:That's that white guy that just voted for Trump. You know what I'm saying. Like has a confederate flag. Like in the back of his house.
Speaker 2:Like I'm not racist then he falls and looks around to make sure everybody believes him.
Speaker 1:Cj the kid with the $20 super chat guys. It's all jokes. I'm just saying stuff cause it's war for now. Of course I know Wu's legacy. I'm just talking ish until the battle is had. So I expect craziness. Lord, you guys are protective of the purple tape. My god, biscuits, biscuits is actually on to cow CJ. So we're not protective of biscuits, but we are protecting them.
Speaker 3:The purple tape is a national treasure to hip-hop.
Speaker 1:It is Top five rap album. Okay, guys, let's get up to some current news and stay current. Louisiana. We have a Hot Boys reunion sighting that we were all talking about that. We were praying that we would get and we got it. And now the first thing that's happening is people are feeling like there's not proper support coming from Drake and Nikki's camp about what Weezy has going on with Weezy, anna and the Hot Boys reunion. Fair foul player haters in the air. How do we feel about this? It feels a little haterish to me. It feels like people trying to create some news out of something instead of celebrating and enjoying the moment. Bingo.
Speaker 3:I didn't make nothing of it.
Speaker 2:Bingo, bingo, cool. This was not a Young Money event. This was a cash money event. This was for New Orleans. This was for that crowd, this was for them. This wasn't for a Young Money group, it wasn't.
Speaker 1:People making something out of nothing.
Speaker 2:Drake not being there.
Speaker 1:Who cares? Drake is from Greenland and Nicki is from Queens. These things are from far, far away.
Speaker 2:Right who cares Like you said, making the story out of nothing.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean, I just feel like the rhetoric seems to be more focused on what Drake and Nicki didn't do I don't think they were supposed to do anything anyway Instead of focusing on the fact that one of the most influential crews, especially in the southern region of this hip hop climate, you know just came back together literally for the first time in it's been 24 years, four years, since they were all together.
Speaker 3:They did a lot of joints. They did about 15, 16 joints. Well, they got joints.
Speaker 1:They were in the studio together for about five years straight. You know what I'm saying, doing joint projects, producer projects gotta be dancing in the videos owner projects. You know what I'm saying? Everybody, they did a lot of joints. People don't realize they they very much had a um, not not quality wise but run wise. It was very wu-tang like for about four or five years for them, whereas a crew they were the crew and I mean this was the core of the crew. I think Juvenile is still the star of this crew. Oddly enough, when they are together, you can hear when they perform, because I've watched some stuff on YouTube. When they perform these songs together, you can tell that this is coming from a time when Juvenile is clearly the front man of this crew, don't you think that's obvious? When they come together, that Juvenile's the front man, which is probably like a strange space for Wayne, because Wayne's like I'm a top 10 MC all time. I'm not even the front man in this crew.
Speaker 2:He's the OG. He's the OG. He was the one who got all this going and I told you guys that I was with Juvie a couple months ago, before this all happened. I said, fellas, he's about to get the group together, he's about to get them back together. He was very keen on that. He said straight up he's like yo, they're all going to be here. And this was even when BG and Turk had their thing going on, you know, when they had their back and forth forth and he kept saying they're going to be here, they will be here.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm just happy for the city. Um, you guys know I'm down there a lot, I'm working on a project down there. Um, just, I was in baton rouge this week and, um, some of my team who was actually who lives in new orleans, who went to the concert I went to the um, the before parties and everything, dj drama actually did a show on friday beforehand. He said the city man, they loved it Seeing those guys on stage together. Like Kuk said, for the first time in what 20-plus years? They didn't think that was going to happen because when Wayne took off he was out of here when Wayne did the Weezy at a Fest that's a solo thing.
Speaker 1:And Turk and BG being incarcerated, right, right, so many things that happened. Yes, that's a solo thing.
Speaker 2:And Turk and Gigi being incarcerated, right, right, right. So so many things that happened between the years. You know Juvie's still down there. He do Juvie Tuesdays. Shout out to Juvie in Juvie Tuesdays. So he's still part of that community, still loving me uptown and back north and all of that. But you know, to get all of them on stage, even Birdman and Manny, all of them on stage at one point. Then you had Master P come on stage and give the key to the city, to Wayne. That was a big moment for New Orleans as a whole, to my New Orleans family, my team down there. Salute to all of y'all because I'm happy that they got a chance to see that. That was a big moment for them.
Speaker 1:It's a beautiful moment. It's a big moment for New Orleans, a big moment for hip-hop Shout out to Weezy Weezy Anna for putting it together. Shout out to the hot boys Time to start campaigning for a hot boys reunion album, since we actually got a hot boys reunion performance.
Speaker 2:I think I'd love.
Speaker 1:I'd love a hot boys album right now. That'd be dope. That'd be dope Cause I feel like the game could use like some, it could use what they do, because when you look at what people do now, it's actually what they did first. It's just like they're just more fun when they do it. You know what I'm saying. Some of the fun be getting lost in some of the rap that I hear these days. It'd be too hard trying to catch a vibe. Instead of being the vibe, the hot boys were the vibe. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we're not going to address the elephant in the room.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, go ahead, ag. What's the elephant in the room With Wayne's speech? I mean, you know, go ahead, ag.
Speaker 3:He said the Super Bowl was snatched away from him. I mean, do you think that you know that his statement has any credence to it?
Speaker 1:I think we all know that. I think we already knew that he's telling us stuff. We already knew. We know what's going on. We know who did it. We know who done it it was you know, mr Carter, in the kitchen with the candlestick. You know what I'm saying. We don't need clue nigga. We know who the fuck did what. We don't gotta open up the envelopes. Wait till the end of the game, with the candlestick in the kitchen, mr carter.
Speaker 3:Well, the thing is, I just don't like where he framed it. Like that, though, because I want to know, matter of factly, was he told that the super bowl was his to perform at? Because if you say that something was snatched away from you, like, like if it wasn't promised to you, then that's acting entitled. You know, that's a sense of entitlement.
Speaker 1:If there's anything that I've learned from from just being in this podcast world and, from time to time, getting in contact with people who know what's really going on behind the scenes in different, various forms of life and in the world, like if I know like people tend to know stuff in these circles weeks and months before we do, wayne's not the type of person that comes out and says stuff like this this isn't really his deal. He doesn't speak like this. He doesn't speak on matters like this. This isn't really his deal. He doesn't speak like this. He doesn't speak on matters like these. Think about what him and Baby went through. He maybe said five words over six years about it. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:But you don't think he was just assuming, because he is right, he did work his ass off to get that position. But do you think that he's just assuming that it was his for the taking, like we all were?
Speaker 1:I think when look at who he's talking about, look at how he moves, look at how that person moves. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I want to say this but I want to be careful how I say it and how I frame it when New Orleans initially got the word that they were going to be the Super Bowl representing the Super Bowl, I spoke with someone because I was down there when it got announced and I spoke with someone who's a vendor that was going to be representing and holding things down for vending for the Super Bowl and he said Wayne was going to be the option and everything was gearing up Because they were working on some stuff and I don't know if some communication got broken down and this was in the very early embryo stages. So I don't want to go into details about that. I don't want to blow those spots up. I want to be like oh, it's a hot take, because it's not.
Speaker 3:But Kendrick was MIA during that time.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, because this was over a year and a half ago when it was being considered at that time and he was in consideration from what this vendor told me, and everything was gearing up for that. But to your point, it pivoted really quick, really really quick. So I'm I wonder if again, I don't want to throw anything out there speculate, but I wonder if wayne also got that word, or his managers or whoever, in the very, very, very beginning, when they were saying hey, it's coming here, we're going to tap you on the shoulder and here we go.
Speaker 3:Now we're just going with the hot hand now because nobody saw that situation coming.
Speaker 2:Right Again, I'm not saying that that's for you know, proof or truth or whatever. I'm just saying that was speculative during that time you know proof or truth or whatever.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying that was speculative during that time. So before we move on, I'm going to ask you all, seeing the performance, you know, and Wayne did a lot of records. He did a lot of records, including the Hot Boys set. So what was y'all's takeaway from it? Do y'all feel that a lot of those records he could perform on the Super Bowl stage in a condensed you know, 13, 14-minute set? Or do you think that his catalog, because you know he left it, you know he performed just about anything he could perform at the Louisiana Fest. So do you think they made the right choice from just a performative standpoint?
Speaker 3:Because there's no question that.
Speaker 1:Kendrick's the better performer? No, not necessarily, because part of the performative exploits of it is what's going to work for that city and what works for the city in New Orleans music-wise for the Super Bowl better than Wayne. And my real piggyback thought is that what I really don't want to happen now is that. Well, you know, New Orleans is a regular place where the Super Bowl gets held, but so is this Coliseum that they built in Los Angeles. So I just want to see the fuckery come totally full circle, where these stupid motherfuckers have Kendrick performing at the Super Bowl in New Orleans and then have Wade performing at the Super Bowl in LA, to show us just how truly fucking stupid they really truly are.
Speaker 3:Oh, so you're saying it's going to be one of those make-up situations like the Harden and Westbrook MVP swap up?
Speaker 1:This is stupid. You know a good damn well a Super Bowl is coming to LA soon, and Kendrick is about seven years younger than Wayne. Why don't you just have his ass perform then?
Speaker 3:Man. We talked about which records he would perform too. I think he got a handful of joints that will ring off at the Super Bowl. If I'm being honest, so fucking dusty.
Speaker 2:If they really wanted him, they wouldn't make it work.
Speaker 1:So fucking dusty, they dusty Everybody involved in this dusty. They wouldn't make it work. Somebody get me a cheap-ass duster from Dollar Tree in a fucking can of Pledge. Dusty, Dusty, Dusty-ass niggas. This is one of the dirtier things that I've seen be done to an artist of Wayne's stature in this hip-hop space by another artist. It just looks like some jealous hater shit to me. Speaking of jealous hater shit, it seems that Drake and DeMar DeRozan have some issues with each other. It seems like DeRozan, who was originally an LA native but obviously repped Toronto for a long time rep Toronto for a long time seems to have taken Kendrick's side in the now. Well, it's not infamous, it's very famous Drake and Kendrick beef. Is Drake right, wrong, indifferent, ambivalent for taking issue with DeRozan, and is it fair for him to be you know, quite frankly standing on the sidelines of games that DeRozan is playing in like he's fucking birdie from above the rim?
Speaker 3:Yo, I see that tweet. I lost my mind. That shit was hilarious.
Speaker 1:It was hilarious and it was appropriate yeah.
Speaker 3:And he was wearing fatigues. Birdie was wearing fatigues.
Speaker 1:The break is now standing on the sidelines of DeMar DeRozan's games, throwing up gang signs and screaming thug life, apparently. What say you, gentlemen?
Speaker 3:I just cracked up how DeMar actually looked back in the direction, like looking at the scoreboard. You know that had me dying laughing. But real talk. I see why Drake is mad, because him and DeMar they considered each other friends and I would say this is some not your real friends, industry friend politics and stuff like that. But DeMar's on record to saying that Drake was a real friend to him when he was down bad after getting traded from Toronto. So I do think that they had a real friendship. But DeMar was on some home team vibes and to getting traded from Toronto. So I do think that they, you know, had a real friendship. But DeMar, you know, was on some home team vibes and, you know, decided to I don't even think he looked at it like I'm sided with Kendrick over Drake.
Speaker 3:This is West Coast, this is Compton. This is a unified moment for us because Sean called this early in the beef. In the beef, like you know, once, like you know, lines was drawn on regions or whatever. You know you knew the west coast was going to unite. After that taylor made freestyle. So but I do think that drake has a right to be upset, but just the way he did it was like really corny to me. You know I'm saying staring at him and then mumbling stuff under his breath whatever it was, just wow it was. It was just wild corny man, corny, corny man, corny energy, and.
Speaker 3:But at the end of the day, though, my biggest problem with the whole thing is this is what everybody's talking about, including us. Instead of the great Vince Carter being inducted, I mean, sorry, getting his jersey retired the first ever Raptor to get his jersey retired. You know what I'm saying, and he was famous in Toronto before Drake was even a thing, and all this hoopla about DeMar DeRozan and Drake's beef with each other has overshadowed him. Getting his jersey retired. You know so, and you know I had a problem with that. And then Drake talking about he going to climb up in the Raptors and take DeMar's jersey down. Like, demar's jersey will be up there. The Toronto Raptors don't have a lot of jerseys to retire, so you can count on DeMar's jersey being up there one day. I mean, it just is what it is. So, drake, you know what I'm saying. Get your ladders ready.
Speaker 2:Look, drake is corny for that. Right, drake is corny for that. I looked at it like this. I personalized it myself.
Speaker 2:Demar had an interview with Shannon Sharp and he was saying how Drake looked out for him and consoled him when he was going through that trade situation from Toronto. Drake took that as like yo, I was there for you at a time when you was down because the city got rid of you. And now I see you popping up on stage, you know, with one of the. You know one of the biggest songs, this and me, if not the biggest song of hip hop this year this and me. You're on stage. So where's the loyalty? So I can understand that part of it, because I'm big on loyalty. My team knows that, that you give me your hand, I give you my heart. Loyalty is everything right. So I can understand that part of it. Everyone doesn't live by that code. What I have done, what Drake has done, he's going to sign it under court and me mug him and call him whatever under my breath.
Speaker 2:Nah, you handle that situation a different, in my opinion. Handle that situation a different way. You don't deal with them at all or you go to the source. Let's have a conversation, right, but to just be on the side of the court trying to be a thug or whatever, be a tough guy, that wasn't the way to handle it. Can you justify the way he should be feeling? You can justify it, yeah, but the actions behind it, nah, you can't justify the actions behind it. It's for the cameras. It's for the cameras. If you really really feel that way, let's have a conversation. Let me let you know how I really feel, because I thought you were friends. If I came to you at a time you needed somebody the most and you did this to me. Now I feel the way we have a conversation, that we can part ways, but he chose the other part.
Speaker 3:He chose another way to do it.
Speaker 2:That's my take on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this shit whack. Next subject this is buster shit. This is hater shit. It's just having a bad year.
Speaker 3:It's making the laws worse than what it is.
Speaker 2:There's a spotlight on it, let it go. Take the spotlight off of it. Everything you do is putting another spotlight in more previous years, make hit records.
Speaker 1:How about? That Do what you do best. Make hit records. Blaze these features. Be an ambassador for the culture and for the game he might come at Joe next.
Speaker 3:Joe straight up called him bitch on his podcast, like you know what I'm saying, so go at Kendrick again, make it round two.
Speaker 1:Look, give us the first round two like real, real round two of like an epic heavyweight title fight. Like, give us some Ali Frazier action, give us another round of it. Like, if you're, if you're really feeling that way, but don't, don't attack a man where he's at work, cause that's like, that's like DeMar going to the suit. Do those ad libs over nigga, yeah, nigga. You ain't made, you ain't made a top 10 record since fucking 2015. You know what I'm saying. Like this is yeah, just for context, so corny to me all the way around. Now we're going to get to the central part of our show, which is guess what More?
Speaker 1:Wu-tang RZA in the house saying with Complex doing some shorts, talking about what some of hip-hop's best years were, which he pretty much said were 86 to 88 and 93 to 95. Do we agree? Disagree? How do we feel about him saying that things started to get watered down in 89, which I don't agree with. And how do we feel about him not mentioning the epic year that was 96? Because it's funny that he cut it off at 95, which is the pinnacle of his run. It was only one Wu album in 96. Because from 93 to 95, that is the moment that is the rap moment for rap's crew, and this is the guy that's the architect of it, and after that it's Iron man in 96 and Wu-Tang Forever in 97. So the momentum is there, but the moment is the 93 to 95 moment. I felt like that was a little egotistical of him, a little bit to leave 96 out of the fray.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I didn't look at it like that, but I see what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Hold on. We got a couple of super chats, cj showing love tonight. Appreciate you, cj.
Speaker 1:CJ with the $5 super chat. Funny enough, BDOT on his IG is watching Ray live doing triumph Prayers to Buckshot. Whether jumped or one-on-one, he didn't come out pretty good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I heard that that happened.
Speaker 1:Have y'all heard about everything with Buckshot? Yeah?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was nasty work, man that was sad.
Speaker 1:That seemed pretty nasty. Yeah, cj the Kid again. If Pac's name was Birdie, then this was Drake being pigeon trying to face Fightin' to Rosa. You know, cj, you know CJ.
Speaker 2:Nasty work.
Speaker 1:CJ. With the nasty work, cj got some more work today. I see you, cj. Toastmasters in the house. Toastmasters.
Speaker 2:Man fellas, I can understand RZA's through his lens. I can see why he would say that through his lens Because you know, RZA, looking at it, the journey that he took for hip hop in retrospect and where it was going 86 to 87 was a pivotal year. It was a. It was a giant year for hip hop, giant leap for hip hop. And then he's saying what 93 to? He said 92 to 95, 93, 93 to 95, that was another giant leap, that probably was the biggest leap in hip-hop from 93 to 95, because you did have woo illmatic.
Speaker 2:Um, you did have uh ready to die in that arena you had like everything that shaped and I think he even mentioned that. He said how the originality is what shaped everything that came afterwards and those albums, the original flavor of those albums. You think about Cuban Lynx. Do you get a reasonable doubt without Cuban Lynx?
Speaker 1:No, I don't think you do, because he wouldn't have felt as comfortable talking that way without an album like Purple Tape.
Speaker 2:No one would, no one was.
Speaker 1:Nobody had since Cool G Rap really, but people didn't rap like that, because Cool G Rap wasn't moving. No damn records.
Speaker 2:Yes, I can understand his lens.
Speaker 3:Remember, I think the 80, 86, 87 thing was more so, you know, because where he's older, the era that inspired him, and then he picked the era that was, you know, most active in his, his pinnacle, right Remember.
Speaker 1:No, ag, I totally agree with you. I think he picked the era that he was inspired by and then picked the era that he was active in, which is what most of these niggas do yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And if you remember one that, can it be all so simple let them talk in. Before the for the song, drop he they on the block. He said yo remember 87. That was my favorite shit, like you know what I mean. Right, yeah, so he's taking you back to what inspired him. But for me personally, you know, like you said, 96 is my favorite year in hip-hop period. It was just stacked.
Speaker 3:Hip-hop underwent a lot of changes. Um, my second favorite year would be 2001, just because of what the battle was between jay and oz and you know. Then you had the locks and um, you know I'm saying the state property and everything surrounded that. But it just I have a hard time breaking it down into like two or three year sections, my formative years. I look at it as like a decade. If I'm picking any decade and rap for myself, I'm picking 93 to 2003. That window right there, that decade of my formative years, from where I was 12 years old to 22 years old, like if I could only listen to one era of rap and hold that near and dear and then just eliminate everything else, that would be what I would pick. But I have a hard time narrowing it down. You know any less than a decade for me.
Speaker 2:I can dig it. I can dig it.
Speaker 1:I think that for me, 1994 to 1996 has more classic and impactful albums and impactful artists than any other climate that I can recall. It is my formative years. I think the younger version of me probably would have told you that it's that 86, 87, 88, 89 gap that RZA is talking about. But when I think back and I sit back now and I look at what hip-hop has become now that we sit here in 2024, well, the reality of the matter is that KRS-One, rakim, kool G Rap Kane, rakim, all the guys who came after them and came out in 94, 95, 96, with the exception of Rakim making paid in full. Well, all those artists have ended up being bigger artists and, in a lot of ways, better artists with better catalogs. It's just the reality of the matter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's not a hot take.
Speaker 1:I think that's bare Illmatic, ready to die. Southern playalistic, the infamous, the purple tape, liquid swords, reasonable doubt, the score Illidelf, half-life AT aliens. And they achieved that early.
Speaker 3:You know fairly early yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so if you were asking me that question in 2004, 2005, the answer would still be 86, 87, 88 then. But now look at what time has done. It's like it's that 94, 95, 96. That's where our legends like look we still. People still want to outcast album Wu-Tang is still impacting culture. This whole show has been Wu-Tang centric. We're still talking about Liquid Swords and Into the Wu-Tang. We're still talking about Liquid Swords and Into the Wu-Tang. We're still talking about Machiavelli. You know what I'm saying. One of these albums come out in 96, all Eyes on Me. You know what I'm saying. There are so many important seminal moments that are coming from this era, even for women. The first female artist to go platinum is Da Brat with Funk Defy to 94.
Speaker 1:So, if I'm actually picking the air, I'm picking 94 to 96, because it has everything. It has the sales, it has the hits, it has the classic artists, but mostly it has the most classic albums, in my opinion, for a three-year stretch. If you actually think about your 20 greatest rap albums of all time, I guarantee you at least five to seven of them come from that three-year period. Probably Illmatic, ready to Die, reasonable Doubt to die, reasonable doubt, the purple tape, the infamous.
Speaker 3:That's five and I actually like that you cut it off there. I I sit here talking about you know I struggle with cutting it off, you know at a certain point and have a whole decades, man, but 97 might arguably be one of the biggest shifts ever in hip-hop. So I like that you cut it off from 94 to 96, even though 97 is. We talked about this, you know, a couple weeks ago. 97 is a sneaky good year. It's a it's a monster year, but the more commercialized hip-hop got that 97 was the biggest shift of that but that is, that was between 96, 98 to 98 was another major shift that we saw.
Speaker 2:We saw the rough ride. We saw the DMX movement. The DMX movement was massive and you're talking about coming off the heels of 98. And before then again, we're talking about what happened in 96.
Speaker 2:97 was like more of a. It was a somber type of year because you're talking about you losing big. You're talking about the changing of the guard. It was a badber type of year because you're talking about you losing big, you're talking about the changing of the guard. It was a bad boy. Era Wu-Tang was just finishing up their run, 97 probably had the most the monumental times, the monumental moments at that time.
Speaker 3:True. But here's what I think we're looking at those time frames differently. I think you know for the most part at those timeframes differently. I think you know for the most part y'all are looking at it from the aspect of where music was during those time periods. But when I'm gauging it I'm all in, tell me if I'm wrong. I'm also gauging it where I was personally, because, like at 98, I'm 17 and 99, I'm 18. During that time I'm going to college, I'm having these arguments in the dorms or whatever. I've got a better understanding of hip hop, we breaking down lyrics, so on and so forth. I think that plays a big part into what you view as the best time, like your formative years.
Speaker 1:It does and it can. But that's why I kind of brought up the fact. Well, my perspective now is based on looking back at that young man, not thinking like that young man. You know what I'm saying. It's like I'm looking back at the music that that young man fell in love with and it's like, no, that shit held up Like ATL aliens held up muddy waters. Held up you know, half life. Held up Stakes is high Held up. Yeah, like I was saying, held up Stakes is High, held up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like I was saying, 12-year-old me with 36 chambers.
Speaker 1:Do or Die by AZ. Held up, that's 95. That's what I'm saying. It's like no, no, no, all that shit held up pretty well, that's why I'm picking it. It's like the 13, 14, 15 on me. It's like damn, my taste was really that fucking good. I knew what.
Speaker 3:I was talking about.
Speaker 1:I knew I was supposed to skip school the first two periods to go get Iron man. I knew that that was supposed to happen.
Speaker 3:I was right, look how versatile that landscape is. It's not real narrow. Everything you just named, it was something for everybody.
Speaker 1:Even going to get stuff like OC's Jewels. That's what I mean, stuff like that in there. I was bumping everybody. Oh, I mean even going. Even going to get stuff like oc's jewels. That's what I mean, like stuff like that in there yeah, I was.
Speaker 1:I was bumping times up the other day, man I was bumping my world the other day, not me. Crooklyn, crooklyn dodgers. Remember the crooklyn dodgers joint? Of course, that's what I'm saying. It's like I even look at little loosies, like that record wise. You know what I'm saying. It's like I even look at little loosies, like that record wise. You know what I'm saying. It's like that shit. All the remixes. Look at all the rap remixes that came out around that time. Think about the 95 nas feature run. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:My favorite ever all that shit j cole could never. No, not at all none of you thinkiggas could never. It was a lot going on at that time. It was our formative years.
Speaker 2:It was the roadmap to our personalities during that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but also, too, those things were impactful. That's what I mean when people ask like how about this? Let's go to the J Cole thing. Like the performance is there, mike Wise? The performance is there, mike wise, the performance is there. Is the impact there? Like when we're talking about this 95 feature run, you would think that this nigga did like 15 verses on 15 records. Guys, we're talking about three or four verses yeah, that's it that's all he needed.
Speaker 1:That's all he needed. He needed three or four verses that year on his off year. It's like oh no no, that guy's still the best rapper out here, in my opinion. I've heard him three times this year and all the shit is Rhyme of the Year stuff. One of them, I think, might be the best rhyme I ever heard.
Speaker 3:Yeah, out of that lot like More Money, more Murder, more Homicide might be the weakest out of that feature run. And look how dope them verses are.
Speaker 1:That's wild. Them verses are that's wild.
Speaker 2:That's wild, but that's the thing, guys we're talking about all these albums this year and we're talking about how to figure out how they're going to go into next year. Every album that we talked about so far nostalgia-wise the GZA, j Pop those albums had carryover.
Speaker 1:Those albums, you know, 96 albums Carryover, lifetime carryover, lifetime carryover.
Speaker 2:We were listening. It was written all the way up to 98. In clean rotation. I'm talking about 96, all of 97, we said, listen, it was written, he was still dropping videos. If it was written in 97. The carryover was crazy back then.
Speaker 3:That's the world we lived in Today. That's gone.
Speaker 2:It's gone, it's gone, it's gone. They don't have the lyrics you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:No, even movies at the theater. Y'all remember the same movie. Be at the theater for a whole damn year, yeah, and you can catch it At least six months, at least six months. Yeah, now it six months. Yeah, now joint gone after like three, four weeks at the. You know what I'm saying. The box office.
Speaker 2:So it's the world we live in now. Staying power is not there. Don't keep your attention. True, the album kept our attention. We kept going back. That's why we can recite them so easy to date, because we consumed them so much. Back then we all, we were all rapping, rhyming to Jizzle. Just not too long ago, we all sang the lyrics together.
Speaker 1:But now I came out in 95 no, but think about this. We're rapping the lyrics to songs that weren't even fucking singles. That's how the that's how much we had.
Speaker 2:These are album tracks.
Speaker 1:We're rapping the verses to we're rapping to the album tracks these aren't even lead singles.
Speaker 2:Right, cold World was the single, labels was the single. Right, we're wrapping for the album tracks.
Speaker 1:These aren't even lead singles. Right Cold World was the single. Labels was the single.
Speaker 2:Right, we've been listening to albums in so much rotation. We pop our tapes. We're popping tapes.
Speaker 3:They don't know about that, sean, you don't even want to take it there. They don't know about that.
Speaker 1:I'm popping my label single tape because I kept playing the start again, because I thought it was the best start off. Tommy, ain't my motherfucking boy, when you fake moves on a nigga you employ. I was like, oh, this nigga's mad.
Speaker 3:Why doesn't that get brought up? In one of the best in the conversation, the best concept songs ever? That song never gets brought up.
Speaker 1:That's why I say it's like no, his performance is very. It was written level. It's up there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like Killer, hills 103.
Speaker 1:Killer Hills, 103 or 104 is just as good as Niggas Bleeding in the setup.
Speaker 3:If it didn't have more bravado, we would be talking about it like that.
Speaker 2:He was for events. He did it so effortlessly, it looked too easy. It looked too easy for him.
Speaker 3:That's why they call him the genius. That's why they call him the genius.
Speaker 1:Anyone skin the gold in Syria. I want their small intestines ripped from the interior. I got a price for those jewels. Ship the freight cargo. Don't forget the launder the cream through Wells Fargo. Reconstruct the process of 200 pounds of reefer. Hold on, what'd he say? 200 pounds of reefer, 400 barrels of reefer and 50 immigrants for fake visas. Shit Like this nigga's out here going Tony Montana on these niggas. He's looking for salsa out here.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and we know all of that because we played it over and over, right, over and over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so special moment. We don't get special moments like that anymore. But yeah, 94 to 96 would be my pick. And, speaking of 94 to 96, somebody who was very, very active around this time is our Discord Dialogues Artist of the Week. And, speaking of 94-96, somebody who was very, very active around this time is our Discord Dialogues Artist of the Week, and that would be the legendary Redman. Once again, 94-96,. There is a dark side, muddy water.
Speaker 2:Hey, y'all take it away. I'm about to jump into chat and drop the socials and everything.
Speaker 1:Discord. Dialog ahead AG Discord dialogue sir.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the winner of the Discord dialogue for this week. Shout out to Jack. You know what I'm saying. He's been nominating Redman for a few weeks now and then I apologize for whoever nominated him this week but he finally I think it was Iron Myers that he finally got in to win this week. But one thing I say about Redman Redman is one of the dopest emcees to walk the planet Earth man. Like you know, he has countless collaborations with Method man and I'd say 75 percent of the time we get the best of Method man and that's like. That's like saying something, something.
Speaker 3:And you know, when I really started thinking about how can I wax poetic about about red man in his career, I really started breaking it down and I'm thinking about his catalog. Like you talked about coop, you know 92, you know there's a dark side, and then you got 94. What the album? 96, muddy waters, and then docs the name, uh, after that, and then Doc's the Name after that. And then you got the highly, highly, highly slept on El Nino group album and that was around 98. El Nino was fire. Redman was a big part of that. Then you got Blackout, which was not a classic but a great, great album, not a classic, but a great, great album.
Speaker 3:Your Red Redman is almost a full decade in and seven projects in before we get his first quote unquote miss, which is malpractice, which wasn't a terrible album, but it just wasn't what the other stuff was. And I was sitting there thinking that's one of the greatest runs, from start to like, you know, a decade in your career, that any artist has ever seen. And I'm trying to think, has anybody else seen a run like that? And the only people I can think that come to mind is like face, maybe two and ghost face. If you count the woo stuff, it's a very, very short list of MCs, if you like, 2001,. Your debut album comes out in 92, and then here you get in 2001, and you get your first quote-unquote misstep. That's pretty amazing. So that's a testament. How dope Reggie Noble is so shout-out to him, you know. Shout out to Brick City. Just one of the best man who never gets enough love and one of the best starts to a career we've ever seen.
Speaker 1:Very, very well spoken and said and articulated, ag. I think that Redman is somebody that is only supplanted as an all-time great MC by our truly most iconic figures. The only people who are ahead of him or ahead of them are about their iconic nature and the iconic nature of their work, nature of their work. And so for me that makes reggie noble, an mc's mc, which means only the truly best of the best mcs are better than red man, and I still don't think that there's 15 guys that fit that bill, which is why red man is still in my top 15. I like how you articulate the fact that more often than not he usually gets the best of Method man on a verse. Well, here's why and this is kind of true. Well, you know, on Into the Wu-Tang, method Man's probably the fifth or sixth best lyricist Lyrics were never necessarily the thing that were the major draw in with meth.
Speaker 1:Meth grew into an all-time great lyricist. It was his flow, cadence, delivery, word usage and placement, not necessarily bar work for meth. Early he did have moments where he would lyrically spaz out, I think the most obvious first time we hear it is actually on the what with big. But Redman is that as in a lyrical tactician and technician of the highest order. Tactical tactician and technician of the highest order and because of his style, maybe doesn't get mentioned in that black thought.
Speaker 1:You know, nas Rocky, maybe he doesn't get mentioned in that territory but please believe he can wrap in that territory and I think it's about the off the wall nature of it that's not rooted in what I like to call black struggle content. Like you know, like when bread man's talking about brick city, well, he doesn't talk about jersey. The way naz talks about queensbridge, the way talk talks about la, it's a little bit more. Like you know, I'm the one that started that rah-rah shit and so, speaking to the guys that talk that rah-rah shit, he's at the top of my list of that. It's like I have him over him. I have him over Busta Rhymes, I have him over Old Dirty Bastard, I have him over all of those guys. The type of guys that I have ahead of him are the Nas and Pox and Biggs and Ice Cubes and Scarfaces and Ghostfaces of the world.
Speaker 1:It's the content, yeah, and it's the content, because everything else is there the bars, the guest appearances, the impact, the legacy, the albums, the collaborations. I love what you said about El Nino. El Nino might AG. El Nino might be the most slept on rap project of the 90s. Nobody talks about el nino nobody.
Speaker 3:There's people that don't know it exists.
Speaker 1:Bro, that album is man, it's one of eric sermon's best production jobs.
Speaker 3:Yes, shout out to eric sermon man saying a lot yeah, man, green eye bandit man like yo, that that album is fire. I might have to revisit that. Man. Like you're right, nobody talks about that, it's just those years was so packed and you know that's one of the things that got lost in the shuffle.
Speaker 1:Man el nino was crazy and red man is the superstar on el nino. He is the front man of the crew on el nino. You can tell that this show is being centered around red man, like most of those beats are for red man, like eric sermon and keith murray rapping El Nino. You can tell that this show is being centered around Redman Most of those beats are for Redman. Eric Sermon and Keith Murray are rapping on. Those beats are for Redman and he showed his ass.
Speaker 3:But the fact that he did Muddy Waters and then in 96, and then El Nino in 98 and then Blackout in 99, that run is like crazy.
Speaker 1:There's a Dark Side in 94, a dark side, 94 money dark side is 92, what the album is? 94 no, no, what? The album's 92? There's a dark.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's reverse okay, yeah, right, but I mean even those first three albums, that's two classics and impossible, right right, correct.
Speaker 1:I love docs the name too. Docs the Name is a strong album, I think. How about this? I like El Nino better than there's A Dark Side and what the Album Actually? So I think I would have that only behind Muddy Waters in terms of projects that he's been involved in.
Speaker 3:You got Muddy Waters as his best right Easy. Yeah, I do too, and you could argue that's a top five album in 96, as stacked as 96 is.
Speaker 1:It's arguable, depending on who you ask.
Speaker 3:Definitely top 10, arguable top five.
Speaker 1:Definite, definite top 10, not even questioned Matter of fact. I can't see putting it lower than seven, which I think is saying a lot for that rap year. Like, how about this? This is how I feel about that. If you're talking about a rap album, rap album. Muddy waters is actually a better rap album than a score by the fugees. You get what I'm saying. Yeah, the rapping you're doing. Yeah, we're talking about a rap album, right? Yeah, we're talking about a rap album. It might be a better rap album than ATL is. It's all close.
Speaker 3:I mean you're like really splitting hairs between Iron man, muddy Waters, atl, all them joints are splitting hairs.
Speaker 1:So how about this? I think that for me personally, I don't like it more than Illidelf Half-Life, but objectively probably think it's better than Illidelf-Life, but objectively probably think it's better than Illidelf. I have it over Illidelf Half-Life? Objectively I do, but not personally. I got you you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:But yeah, you caught it right the content is the only thing that's like Redman's Achilles heel is the content.
Speaker 1:It is. But also to understand if he had that content that would take some of what he does so well Like what he does well. Is that third verse on high how high? You know what I'm saying? He's too content heavy. He doesn't kick verses like I don't want, you don't want Redman doing Ghostface on Impossible, that's not what I want. That's not what he was here for. That's not right, it's not.
Speaker 3:it's not a lot of lower bottom here, you know before, before we move on, um, let me ask you this question. Um, you know, method man is in a you know current Renaissance with his like, um, yes, versus. And then you got, you know, the LL Cool J's the Nas is like you know, everybody you know from our formative years is coming back out. Redman did post that he is coming out with a Muddy Waters part two. In today's climate, in 2024, going into 2025, do you have any expectations at all for Redman?
Speaker 1:When you say expectations, I think he has the expectations that should come with an all time great MC, and so we should expect a great project for him, but also not being so unrealistic that we are expecting him to replicate past successes. So I'm not expecting this album to be comparable to muddy waters, although it is called muddy waters. To the same way, I wasn't expecting the purple tape to to be comparable to the Purple Tape 1, and so I think that's a good comp.
Speaker 1:I think the only time somebody has really equated their first all-time great classic project with another all-time great classic project, it's probably the Chronic 2001 yes outside of that, there are legendary step downs that are still more than viable, like the purple tape too, and so he's somewhere in purple tape to territory with muddy waters too. That's perfectly fine. I think that's the ceiling. Anyway, if he delivers us the ceiling, I mean delivering us a ceiling like that this year will get you album of the year yeah, yeah, hopefully.
Speaker 3:Eric sermons on the production. Um, you know, but yeah, I don't know. I think it'll be dope either way. You know I don't have crazy expectations, but I think it'll be dope. And for all the Eminem fans out there, eminem is directly off the Redman tree. He'll tell you that that was his biggest inspiration right there. So shout out to Redman.
Speaker 1:And Meth is actually the better MC of the two right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Meth is killing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I would like to see some more collabs from them. So I know we're running a little behind the day. Sean, thanks for popping back in. We're about to get to this press play so we can play on. This week's press play I actually kind of was inspired by our Wu-Tang-centered themes. I actually kind of was inspired by all Wu-Tang-centered themes, and so I picked seven songs from the Wu-Tang run, one from each album. So the first song that I picked from press play this week was Bring the Ruckus Off. Enter the Wu-Tang.
Speaker 1:I think this might be the most underrated intro to a rap album. This song doesn't get talked about enough. This is Ray and Ghost starting off the album. It starts off with Ghost and goes into Ray and then guys, what a treat Inspector Deck and JZA close out the song. Think about this the first time you hear Wu-Tang Clan, you get Ray, ghost, deck and JZA. How about that? Bring the ruckus Next.
Speaker 1:And it's kind of funny that CJ the Kid brought this up I got Biscuits by Method man off Takao. Nice, yeah, cj the Kid, with a little foreshadowing, cj, you said Biscuits. It's like Biscuits is actually the record that I picked from Takao. You know what? This was the record that made me realize that Method man was more of an abstract star than your traditional lyrical bar seminar star. So Biscuits was a feel a slept on record. I think it's one of RZA's better production jobs.
Speaker 1:It doesn't get discussed Next. I had just had to go with this. I don't know how this record's been on my mind. Shimmy Shimmy Y'all by ODB. Know why this record's been on my mind? Shimmy shimmy y'all by odb? I think no song sums up who an artist is the way shimmy shimmy y'all and the song in the video in the beat sum up old dirty bastard. If you don't know who old dirty bastard is, if you wonder why people from our era talk about him like he is like the urban legend of urban legends and just like this, almost like mythical figure, just like play shimmy shimmy shimmy y'all. Like he gives you like all the answers that you need real quick, he's so great.
Speaker 1:You can play this video on silent and you still understand everything that's going on.
Speaker 3:You're like this guy special but that's what I was gonna allude to. Real quick, like we didn't, he spits the same verse twice and we didn't even care. It's so dope.
Speaker 1:Nobody cares.
Speaker 3:The first and the second verse are the same.
Speaker 2:Nobody cares. It didn't change anything. No.
Speaker 1:You got to listen to the record and watch the video to be all the way there with it. You know this is back to. Oh, you want to know what a vibe looks like. Old Dirty Bastard was a vibe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, god bless the dead man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, God bless, God bless for real.
Speaker 3:Miss Dirty man.
Speaker 1:Then we go into the purple tape. I actually picked Knowledge God off of the purple tape.
Speaker 1:I think this is the most slept on song from that album and I think when people talk about Ray's solo shots on here they tend to lean on spot rushers and, of course, incarcerated scar faces. Knowledge God is just as good and I think it's one of those records that kind of like really get the Purple Tape started in the right direction for its arguable all-time greatest rap album process. It's one of those records that's really sneaky, great, raised, really really sharp. It's another one of those RZA beats where he's just frighteningly consistent. So Knowledge God would be my next pick. And then we are going in to what we just discussed earlier, which is Liquid Swords. My pick from Liquid Swords is Killer Hills 103.04. I'm going to keep it short and keep it brief. Like I said, story-wise, go listen to Killer Hills 103.04. It is comparable to Niggas Bleed off of Life After Death and the setup off of it Was Written. That's how visual and that's how brilliant and great that story is. And that's one of RZA's best beats too. Love that beat. My favorite RZA beat run is Fourth Chamber Shadowboxing and Killer Hills 103.04. That's my favorite beat run. That he had those three beats because they're all succinctly brilliant for all drastically different reasons and somehow someway he put all those songs in order and made them fit and made them make sense. It's literally a genius move on the Geniuses album.
Speaker 1:Next we're going to go to Ghostface Killer on Iron man and actually, to start off, my favorite song on Iron man is actually the first song, which is Iron Maiden. I love to beat the Iron Maiden. I think it's the most underrated RZA beat of all the RZA beats in my opinion, and I feel like Ray and Kappa and Ghost. Just you know, ghost's bar work on here is just so sterile. Dead on the prosecutor. Smack the juror, me and my girl will run like Luke and Laura. That's a general hospital reference. Ghost just got. Ghost is wild. Ghost is wild. Ghost makes ice skater references, makes soap opera references. Ghost when he's in his bag is just about as special as specialists can get. Ghost when he's in his bag is just about as special as specialists can get. And to close things out, for my press play I picked Bells of War off of Wu-Tang Forever.
Speaker 2:Love Bells of War.
Speaker 1:Yeah, bells of War. Bells of War to me, is the best quote-unquote Wu-Tang record on Wu-Tang Forever, as in like the posse cut record that they're known for, where they really deliver the goods that we had started to see over time. A la Winter Wars, a fourth chamber. I consider Bells of War to be in that vein and that's my press play for this week. All Wu-Tang inspired because it's Wu-Tang forever.
Speaker 3:Right, you got to go to summer school this year.
Speaker 2:EG what you got, homie.
Speaker 3:All right. First up, most of my press play is based on conversations we had on the last episode. It made me tap into certain songs. First one I got is Big L with the 98 Freestyle from the album the Big Picture. Um, you know we brought up big l on our last episode and you know l? L had everything, man. He had the bars, the witty punch lines, the metaphors. He had the voice. I think not enough people talk about his voice. I think his voice is very underrated. He had like almost a perfect rapper voice. And, um, you know another person that was taken away from us too soon but I was running that freestyle back. It's so many quotables in that 98 freestyle man, he just went crazy on that. Love that, love that joint.
Speaker 3:Next joint I got is a prodigy, uh, with the power rap freestyle from the QB's finest um album. And you know we had talked about Prodigy last week and we spoke about him some this week. Prodigy man, he just you know what he couldn't do lyrically like the Nas's and Jay-Z's of the world and the Biggs. He just tapped into something else. You know he did it with. You know his voice and unorthodox delivery. And just you know he did it with you know his voice and then unorthodox delivery and just you know, p was one of the greatest to ever do it. Man, I don't see how anybody can think otherwise. And um, that's one of my favorite records off that. Uh, qb's finest album. Like p did his thing and the beat is um, it's real dope, real eerie, and um, always like the transition of that going into, uh, street glory. But yeah, that's one of my favorite joints.
Speaker 3:Um, the next one I got is a 50 um, don't push me off the get rich or die trying album featuring lloyd banks and eminem. A lot of our conversations last year I mean not last year, I'm getting sleepy last episode episode was talking about Lloyd Banks and how he shined brighter when he was rapping next to other artists versus himself, and he can be kind of monotone. I think this is one of his shining moments. You know, on that 50 album with that feature Because I mean he's rapping beside 50 and Eminem, which Eminem had a stellar verse, but if you ask me, I think Banks stole the show on that record and if you go back and listen, what I love about his verse is very Tupac and the delivery, the cadence and you know, just go back and listen to that song and then think of when you're hearing this. I don't know if he was channeling pock on that, but a lot of the, a lot of the stuff he does in that verse. I can hear pock doing that same verse, but I love that verse from lloyd banks and he shines the most when he's beside other artists.
Speaker 3:Um, next one I got is naz uh black republican featuring jay. We had our discord dialogue producer segment last, uh, last week and we shouted out to LES. Les produced this track. He took the sample from the Godfather 2. It was grandiose, which was appropriate for the occasion, and I really like this record.
Speaker 3:This is probably other than success. This is probably my favorite collab that the two of them have done and I think around that time the fact that the song leaked out early kind of hurt the song as well, as I think the fans more so wanted somebody like a kanye west or just blaze produced the record. So when it was produced by les, I think a lot of the people were kind of let down, but I think he showed up to work and did his job, you know. But I just don't think it had his name, didn't have the notoriety around it for Jay-Z and Nas for it to be their first collaboration after the beat, and I think it would have been received differently had it been somebody else. But shout out to LES. I think he did a great job. Um, next this one's, particularly for Coop. I got O'Donnell off the Capappadonna Pillage album.
Speaker 3:Yo, listen O'Donnell, Yo, ghost and Cappadonna. We talk about Raekwon and Ghost as a combo all day long, but whenever Cappadonna is partnered up with Ghost or Ray or you get the trio of them three, it's going to be classic material every time and those two complement each other very well. One of my favorite songs on the record and this is the shout out to Mathematics. Like I said before, up until this point in 98, I just knew Mathematics as the Wu-Tang DJ. You know what I mean. And then this was the first record I was like shit, he dope as a producer, you know I'm saying. And he understudied rizza and ended up becoming one of wu-tang's main go-tos as a producer. So shout out to mathematics. This is one of the first tracks that kind of opened my eyes. Like yo, mathematics is dope on the boards. Um, we had a dray, look at cool. We had a dray segment.
Speaker 1:Um, last week oh, donna, for you to figure out. Mathematics was nice. On the board, sean, where's your list? Get this guy.
Speaker 3:no, I mean no, don't do that coop in. In 97 98 nobody was talking about mathematics on the boards, stop it. I mean I mean fourth disciple and true master, yeah, but not mathematics like that. Yeah, I was. Name the tracks, we'll get to your list. That's what I thought. Moving on, we had a Dre segment and this is my personal favorite. Dr Dre beat G's and Hustlers off Doggystyle. That's my favorite Dre beat of all time. The way that come in like slapping man listen and the whip Jeeves and Hustlers. Dre lost his mind on that beat. And then the way. I've heard different things. I've heard that the Snoop verses, the freestyles, you know which. I would believe it, you know.
Speaker 1:Some think Dog things. I've heard that the Snoop verses the freestyles. You know which? I would believe it. You know, I think doggy style is a freestyle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would believe that too, because Snoop used to do that back then. But this beat right here is by far my number one drape beat. And for those of you who don't know, little fun fact at the beginning of the skit you know what I'm saying the little kid that says he want to be a hustler, that's Lil Bow Wow, when he was real young.
Speaker 1:That was Lil Bow Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was Lil Bow Wow on the skit.
Speaker 2:I did not know that.
Speaker 3:I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or you're being real. I'm being sarcastic. Alright, Some of the fans may not know Sean, so we're moving on. Last one I got and it's just an homage to the homie Clark Kent. I got and it's just an homage to the homie Clark Kent, I got Brooklyn's Finest. We talked about this last week. You know J and B exploring back and forth. I think it was dead. Even Clark Kent was left in the studio. They went out to the club and he took it upon himself to do the hook to finish the record so it could go on Reasonable Doubt. So I thank him for that and rest in peace to Clark Kent, man who also produced the track. And that's my press play segment. It's on you, Sean.
Speaker 1:Good list.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, good list. My list is inspired man by Quincy Jones actually.
Speaker 1:I thought about doing that. I couldn't do it.
Speaker 2:I had to. I didn't want to go into the actual songs that he produced. I wanted to go with the route of those that were sampled from his collection. I wanted to keep it hip hop To your point, coop. I found myself kind of getting a little worked up when I was trying to go into that realm and I just didn't do it. So I just went with the samples. Of course, nas, it ain't hard to tell. We know where that sample come from. Legendary song, legendary rapper, flipped it did really well with it. So my first one is Nas, it ain't hard to tell. Also, I went and found hey Lover by LL, the Dirty Mac anthem. This is Dirty Mac.
Speaker 3:Anthem that's a fact.
Speaker 2:This is the Dirty Mac Anthem he said Is this the name of the song?
Speaker 1:or is this your life story being told?
Speaker 2:No, I can't Dirty Mac like that, not like that. That was heavy.
Speaker 3:LL is the king of that.
Speaker 2:LL is the king, ll is the Besides. He drinks too much and smokes too many bucks, but I be working out every day. He's working much, since Dude is a bum.
Speaker 3:LL was wild man.
Speaker 1:LL will take your girl.
Speaker 2:He'll let you know I'm taking your girl by hating her in front of you.
Speaker 1:I'm going to pull up at the bus stop and put her in my car.
Speaker 2:He said your man must think it's safe for you to travel that way. That's some hater shit. He did, he did. That is crazy, but that is a dirty Mac.
Speaker 3:Shout out to LL man, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:We definitely know that the Head Lover sample is a classic sample as well from the Crazycy catalog. Mobb Deep's Shook Once, part Two is also a sample from the Quincy catalog, so I had to put that in there. Definitely a classic song. You all know the story behind that. Also, mobb Deep's QU Hectic one of my favorite joints, qu Hectic. I was really in the grind at that time. But again it's another sample from the Quincy catalog. Kanye the Good Life that song is one of those. I felt that this song was like one of Kanye's. He's here now To me. This is one of those songs that you say okay, kanye is the one he hands down the torch that's in his hand. He's out of here. I was on a crew from the Marine Corps at that time. That was my anthem before I went to sell a kid in the Marine Corps. Definitely out of the Quincy catalog.
Speaker 3:One of the best feel-good songs ever. I can see how you just trying to get out of the mindset you're in to put that song on. Absolutely yeah, that's a feel-good record.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, nas Surviving the Times. I struggled when I had played this song and I thought about Quincy. I struggled with that one because that beat, you know, what would I do? You know, I want to get in From the Wiz. That was a Quincy sample, you know, and I really loved that song. Now I was reflecting on that song. You know, just one of those dope joints, man. But I had to get up out of it because I started getting a little emotional. And my last one that rounded out was the Worst by Wu and Onyx. Remember that joint from the Onyx joint, shut them Down, the Worst. That was also another Quincy sample that was used and there were so many different places. I could have gone with the Quincy samples, but those were the songs I really wanted to highlight for tonight's press play Again. Rest in Peace to the Legend, one of the greatest producers of all time 90, hands down. I mean just, we lost the girl.
Speaker 3:Super dope concept on that Sean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love the concept.
Speaker 3:And rest in peace to Quincy. If y'all haven't checked it out yet, it's a documentary on Netflix that shows the making of we Are the World. I've watched it probably about three or four times and nobody could have pulled that off other than the incomparable Quincy Jones man.
Speaker 1:Well, I think here's something people need to understand about this man. This is a man that first of all played next to the likes of Duke Ellington, dizzy Gillespie, sinatra, count Basie was a band leader for Count Basie and Frank Sinatra. Count Basie was a band leader for Count Basie and Frank Sinatra produced Aretha Franklin, donny Hathaway, sammy Davis Jr, lena Horne, diana Washington, like you name it. It literally is the who's who of music history of the last 100 years of music. About 80 percent of little richard like. He literally has done work or played with, been in a band with, led the band produced. And here's what I will tell you for all that work, when you go through the list of all the people he's worked with and it's literally everybody in jazz, r&b, soul like, it's literally everybody. Like everybody Ella Fitzgerald, you name it he's literally worked and played and done everything with everybody. The only time you see him work with somebody over and over again is the mic running. It lets you know how special Mike is actually.
Speaker 1:What I really noticed about going back through Quincy's discography is that Quincy spent his entire career hopping around from band to band and artist to artist, and the only time the greatest producer of all time stopped to continuously do work for somebody. It was mike. He always moved on. Yeah, he always moved on. He never stayed working with he's done work with the isley brothers, james ingram barry. He always moved on. And that's what makes the mic run special. It's because mike's only person to actually get quincy to sit down behind the boards and really produce his stuff. People forget Quincy produced those records. He didn't compose and arrange them and direct them like he did early on, for, like Frank's stuff and Count Basie's stuff, he just produced it because he was always hopping around, but Mike was enough of talent to get him to sit down. So rest in peace to Quincy and Mike. Now they're both gone. Yeah, rest in peace to Quincy and Mike Now they're both gone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I, you know. And then Quincy, the man, I, you know, I, just outside of the music, my great uncle was fortunate to be good friends with Quincy Jones, my uncle, my great uncle, was a jazz player in France and, you know, growing up he would always tell me and my cousins about you know, quincy, who he was as a person, you know, just outside of the music, like fun times they shared and you know this and that. So you know this was a real sad, sad loss, because this is, you know, somebody who was also, you know, on a personal level, special to somebody in my family. So you know, we lost the building.
Speaker 1:Institutional legend 91 years old, full life, mm-hmm. Yes, sir, all right. Well, everybody, make sure you click like and subscribe to the page we're in a little late today. Thank you everybody for staying up late with us supporting Baltimore's up 35-28 on Cincinnati. With a minute and a half left, cincinnati has the ball. We'll see what Burrow does with it. Burrow's got almost 400 yards and three touchdowns. Lamar's got 300 yards and four touchdowns. So they've been slinging, yep.
Speaker 2:Yo Appreciate y'all. Appreciate y'all Like, subscribe, share. Get the word out Peace, peace. Rip. Quincy.
Speaker 1:In doubt.