HipHopTalks Top 20 Albums in 2024 (11-20), Missionary Review, and Much Much More!

Join us on a hip-hop odyssey as we sit down with our guest Sean to explore the multifaceted world of rap music, from its storied past to its vibrant present. Kicking off with a personal journey to Charlotte, my mom and I reminisced about the golden days of Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg, setting the stage for a nostalgic yet critical examination of their evolving careers. We also celebrated Michael Vick's new role as head coach at Norfolk State, reflecting on his journey from NFL icon back to his roots.

Our conversation takes a critical turn as we dissect Fat Joe's latest album, lamenting the challenges veteran artists face in staying true to their sound while adapting to modern trends. We compare his work to past albums like "Jealous One's Envy," pondering the evolving nature of hip-hop albums and how they resonate with audiences today. The Wu-Tang Clan's "Iron Flag" and Lupe Fiasco's "The Cool" provided rich ground for discussion, with Sean and I evaluating the storytelling and legacy of these pivotal works in the rap genre.

The episode crescendos with a lively discussion on the legacy and authenticity of hip-hop figures such as Nas, Lil Wayne, and DJ Clue. We explored Nas's "Stillmatic" and "God's Son," highlighting their impact on his career and the genre at large. The show wraps up with a tribute to DJ Clue's influence on the mixtape era and the vibrant New York hip-hop scene. Join us for an engaging exploration filled with insights, critiques, and personal anecdotes that underscore the enduring influence of these legendary artists on hip-hop culture.

Chapters

• 0:00 Hip Hop Talks
• 10:39 Fat Joe's Evolution and Critique
• 16:13 Evolution of Fat Joe's Music
• 27:50 Evaluation of Wu-Tang Clan Albums
• 40:02 Appreciating Lupe Fiasco's "The Cool"
• 53:34 Rap Artists Need to Speak Truth
• 59:12 J Cole's Garden Performance Analysis
• 1:07:38 J Cole's Arena Performance Analysis
• 1:13:09 Examining Rap Album Production Timelines
• 1:20:55 Jay-Z and Diddy Legal Drama
• 1:30:23 Debating the Impact of Classic Albums
• 1:44:22 Debating Greatest Hip-Hop Talents
• 1:48:43 Dre and Snoop Miss the Mark
• 1:56:57 Dre and Snoop's Collaborative Album Critique
• 2:06:25 Analyzing Dr Dre's Recent Projects
• 2:10:43 Sequel Album Approach Critique
• 2:16:30 Nas' Stillmatic
• 2:27:26 Nas's Impact on Hip-Hop Legacy
• 2:35:14 Analyzing Nas' Personal Albums
• 2:43:06 Nas' "Hip Hop Is Dead" Reflections
• 2:53:48 DJ Clue's Impact on Mixtapes
• 3:03:38 Nas' Album Track Analysis
• 3:12:48 Nas, Beans, and Philly Reppin
• 3:23:34 Hip Hop Talks Subscription Drive

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

🎵outro music plays🎵 Yo what is good?

Speaker 1: 0:39

everybody. Ag, what's up? You want to do the intro? Yo, what's good? Welcome to Hip Hop Talks, episode 48. We got the homie Sean with us. We got the homie Koo. You know what I'm saying On the road. You know we want everybody to pull up, like, subscribe and share the channel. You know what I mean. We trying to get our subscriptions up. We almost at 2,000 subs, so you know, keep on sharing with other friends and tell them to pull up to the best hip-hop podcasts out there. You can also find us on Apple Music and Spotify in our heart.

Speaker 2: 1:15

Yes, sir.

Speaker 1: 1:18

So what do we got going on today? Gentlemen, I'm currently on the road heading to Charlotte. Unfortunately, I have to take goodbye to some more family, so handling family business. So actually, I actually have my mom actually in the front seat driving right now, and it's kind of funny that she's in the car because when we get to the Dr, dre and Snoop portion of this show, I actually have some comments to make about my mother which is probably going to surprise her because she's probably never heard me say this before. She's actually going to be part of the show and not because she's driving, but because of actual memory I have that involves Dre and Snoop and her, and it's going to explain some of the context of some of the mixed reviews of this album as well. Yeah, peace to Mama Coop. No doubt I hope you say something crazy.

Speaker 2: 2:11

and she just reached back and slapped you, man That'd be great.

Speaker 1: 2:13

I don't even know why, yo, you ain't have a real childhood. You ain't have a real childhood unless you got. You know your mom may tear a rotator cuff, reaching into the backseat to slap you or something. You know what I'm saying, just swinging blindly trying to keep her eye on the road. You know what I mean and landing every punch. It was funny. I was having a conversation with a couple of ladies who were actually older than me about this and they was both like, yeah, I talked to my mama like that one time. Yeah, that's all you had One time, one time, one time, one time, absolutely. But we're doing good, man.

Speaker 1: 2:50

I wanted to kind of start off with the vibe that I can. It's kind of actually AG, this is something that's kind of like in your wheelhouse and mine. I'm from North Carolina, you're from West Virginia, but Michael Vick just got named the head coach of Norfolk State, which I think is a pretty big deal. My takeaway from it was that this is why you always hold home down. I mean, as everybody knows, like the area of Virginia, michael Vick is from Newport News. Bad news, norfolk is not very far for those. Yeah, bad news. Everybody who's been through VA know they call Newport News bad news. That's where Mike Vick is from, but Norfolk and Norfolk State isn't too far away.

Speaker 1: 3:36

This is about HBCU giving a black man who has been downtrodden typecast definitely, in my opinion, drug too far through the mud by the media, not saying that he didn't deserve some of the drag, but just too far. And it just reminds me that when you take care of home, home is eventually going to take care of you. This is Virginia's own coaching. You know, a football team is obviously a legend in the state and I don't think that he was going to get this opportunity elsewhere, unlike an Eddie George or a Deion Sanders. I think this was probably going to be his only opportunity. So I'm really excited to see what he does with it. What are you gentlemen's thoughts? I think it's a dope opportunity. His name has actually been in the news a lot lately with that news, as well as Lamar getting ready, you know, to break one of his records. So you know it's been a lot, a lot of Michael Vick trending lately with that. So you know that's dope to see.

Speaker 2: 4:35

Oh yeah, especially the. You know the Michael Vick story is unique story man. You know this guy came out, he was on fire. You know he uplifted an entire city. You know, going to Atlanta and just changed the entire culture of football down there and made it fun Not just for Atlanta but just for the NFL in general.

Speaker 2: 4:54

Like you have to learn, like defensive coaches would tell you all the time, like there are certain plays that come into the league that changes how they play defense, changes how they draft, how they change the entire landscape of their defense moving forward. And he was that guy, he was that offensive weapon that you had to learn. You had to go get faster linebackers, you had to get smaller defensive ends because you needed speed up front and speed in the middle to make sure that you could attain this guy the best way you could. And when you even did that, you needed safeties that knew how to not only be smart but it knew how to play you up on that line and play off of that line, because you didn't know what he was going to bring. He was deadly with the legs, deadly with the arm, had a cannon for an arm and just had so much potential as to be one of those.

Speaker 2: 5:41

Then that thing happened. That happened. It really put him and his career in a vice grip. At first, the Eagles who I cannot stand picked him up and we saw a resurgence For a little while we saw that resurgence.

Speaker 2: 6:00

It was still never the real thing that we saw in Atlanta. You know what I'm saying. He couldn't duplicate that in Philly for the long haul that he did in Atlanta.

Speaker 1: 6:13

Not for the long haul, but I will say that there was a stretch of about 12 games where, if you look at how the modern day quarterback plays football, that stretch of football that Michael Vick actually played for the Eagles is the prototype of it, because that was the running. Patrick Mahomes, josh Allen, lamar Jackson, specifically that style of play that they play is actually what Andy Reid got Vic to buy into. But take it from somebody that's seen him live in Atlanta. You've never seen nothing like that on the football field and this is no disrespect to even Lamar. But I mean, you guys are highly intelligent guys. Neither. None of us are mathematicians.

Speaker 1: 7:10

Michael vick used to pull runs off down here in the dome. That mathematically seemed incorrect. You get what I'm saying. What I'm saying. It's like when you look at the actual angle that he would take and then look at the linebackers, it's like, well, no, this 250 pound guy runs a four five at this angle. He should stop him about four yards into this play. Somehow this guy is 17 yards up the field. It literally defied logic. It was one of those things. He was actually faster than his four two speed.

Speaker 2: 7:39

With the football in his hands it seemed like yep and so ahead of his time, way ahead of his time, way ahead of his time, way ahead of his time Way ahead of his time, way ahead of his time, way ahead of his time.

Speaker 1: 7:47

I was actually about to say my final thoughts is that when people talk about him now, I reference another, sometimes maligned Atlanta legend, andre 3000, because Michael Vick is the prototype.

Speaker 2: 8:00

That yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:01

Yeah. So on to some new music fellas. Fat Joe dropped a project the World Changed On Me, crack, okay, first of all, crack, somebody need to tell crack that he changed on the world. The world didn't change on him. That's the first thing we need to talk about. I said the nerve of him to name this album the World Changed On Me. That's like look at what you're doing you've been doing the last three to four or five years. You've got a lot of nerve. But, ag, I'm going to go ahead and let you take the lead. What are your thoughts on this album that got totally named backwards While we're in that bag. He got a lot of nerve.

Speaker 1: 8:40

I probably got the most kick out of the Chris Rock skit, where he was talking about hip-hop being the first music form by free black men and he said nobody exemplifies that more than Fat Joe. That threw me all the way off. I was really confused, I was befuddled. Even I was just like yo, this is crazy. It's a word for the night, but for real, though, this album was okay.

Speaker 1: 9:12

Joe's rapping didn't sound inspired to me, but what I will say? Joe, for as long as I can remember, has had one of the best ears for beats, you know almost bar none. Like you know, top five probably arguably in rap and Kool and Dre. Usually Fat Joe beat-wise is up there. You know what I'm saying. As far as like consistent over, you know more than a decade you got Ross is consistent with the production. Fat Joe Jay's up there.

Speaker 1: 9:45

I I mean it's only so many guys that, like, really have consistent production throughout all the years and I think joe's one of them. But, um, but cool and dre always provide them with a with a dope backdrop. You know they didn't produce the whole album, I don't think, but they did a lot of joints but um, uh, they don't get enough credit in the uh, pantheon of like, you know I'm saying dope producers in the modern era because cool and dray have really laced joe throughout his year, but throughout his years. But something on this album for me really didn't connect. I think it was, um, I mean, it was pretty forgettable, if I'm being honest, and I hate to say that, but you know, for the part it was pretty forgettable. Hey, want me to jump back in? Sean? Would you like to go ahead and want to keep the Joe train rolling? I mean?

Speaker 1: 10:33

yeah, you want to try to pick Joe up. You want to try to pick Joe up?

Speaker 2: 10:37

Give me a second, because I'm pretty sure you get that. Look on your face that you want to say something real nasty right now. And, by the way, coop, you can't get away with that absolute tweet that you made. That was foul.

Speaker 1: 10:50

I didn't see it. What'd he say?

Speaker 2: 10:52

I said it was foul. I told him the truth about himself.

Speaker 1: 10:55

Oh man, I was very respectful when I told him. I was very respectful when I told him about himself. I gotta look for that there. When I told him about himself, I did. I got to look for that, dan. I didn't say that we got to stop enabling these guys. Speaking of enabling guys, fat Joe, this album's not good. Okay, this album's not good. Let me tell you why this album's not good.

Speaker 1: 11:19

First of all, aj, I do hear what you're saying about how Fat Joe is a dope beat picker, but I think that is more the version of Joe that we grew up with than the version that exists now. Some of these beats are just a little too Miami Vice-ish for me. You know what I'm saying. And he's not current. See, he doesn't sound as good over some of these productions, even though the beat selection is good. Does the beat selection work for the artist? I would say no. Delivery on this album is terrible. His delivery is terrible on this album and I'm going to tell you why. He suffered from the same thing that Busta suffered from with his terrible album. Stop trying to keep up with these kids and do what works for you best.

Speaker 1: 11:59

It was Drake flows on the album. Did you catch that? He was trying to flow like Drake on a couple of joints? Oh, I thought he was trying to flow like Drake on a couple of joints. Oh, I thought he was trying to flow like Drake, cole and sometimes Kendrick on this album and sometimes Future. I'm like you're just picking the popular rappers from this era and trying to adopt some of their style. That's not you.

Speaker 1: 12:17

When he actually got into his bag, which was the last two records of the album, I'm like these are the two best songs on this album. They're at the very end because I think he's still. He's still one of those guys. It's like, even though he's had a lot of hits, even though he's had a lot of success, I think he's still kind of like chasing something. That's really not for him, like, uh, like a prime mess, like a prime jada kissing.

Speaker 1: 12:39

It's like that's not your lane. Jealous ones envy is your lane. Don carter. Gina is your name, not your lane. Jealous One's Envy is your lane. Don Cartagena is your lane.

Speaker 1: 12:47

John Blaze? Crack Attack, that's it. Remember Crack Attack? That started off. Don Cartagena? It's like. No dude, you're doing that.

Speaker 1: 12:53

That is what makes it move, and I just wish some of the OGs that we grew up with would accept who they are in the game and where they are in the game and just make the quality record. You guys aren't even making the money off the music anymore. Your other endeavors are what's paying you. Why are you trying so hard to pop? You're already a legend, you're already an icon. Just make the music dope.

Speaker 1: 13:13

This was the thing about the Nas and the Hit-Boy. Run with the buy-in and it's like no, I told people all the time, do I think he's the greatest MC of all time? Yes, but the music is what got me to buy in back in, and I think he's one of those guys and I mean this as respectfully as possible. He's not legendary enough on the microphone to get you to buy in at this stage in the game, because it's hard for a black thought and mouse to pull that beat off. That's fair. That's fair. Was was Batman? One of the last tracks of the album, because that was the one that stuck out to me. That sounded like most in his wheelhouse, that that was towards the end. That would probably be my third favorite track.

Speaker 2: 13:54

I literally think the last song to the best song, it's like like seven or track seven or eight.

Speaker 1: 13:59

I know what you're talking about yeah, that was a nice little sample, but yeah, yeah, that was my favorite joint, yeah, but I hear what y'all saying.

Speaker 2: 14:08

I don't disagree. I do think that with Joe, you go to Joe for a specific thing. He doesn't give you that specific thing if it was short. And, like you said, we go to Joe because we want to hear that crack. We want to hear Joey crack, we want to hear Don Cartagena. Because we want to hear that crack, we want to hear Joey crack, we want to hear Don Cartagena, we want to hear you know, when he was rapping alongside Hunt and we've seen glimpses of that in different spots, right, we saw the Terror Squad, both of their albums he was able to do his thing and held his own.

Speaker 2: 14:37

But to your point, I think, with Joe and this album is not that long, it's like a 37, 38 minute album. It's not that quick at all. So if an album is that short, it should have more punches to it. I do think the production is okay. I think that he again Joe got a pretty solid ear when it comes to music, very similar to Rick Ross. He has a pretty good sound, a pretty good ear when it comes to music.

Speaker 1: 15:00

Look at you give it Ross credit, sean. I'm proud of you. First of all, I'd like to pause for the cause. We just heard Sean give Rick Ross credit, first time this happened since this podcast has been in existence. And second of all, I'm going to have to push back with you guys. With this fat Joe and the beat picking, am I the one that's off base here? Am I missing something?

Speaker 1: 15:17

He's like that as a beat picker, is this a consensus hip hop opinion that he's like up there with Ross and West Side? I think?

Speaker 2: 15:25

that's what carried his discography. Because you can't really read quite a lot of his rhymes, because nothing really stands out to you, it doesn't have a lot of punch to it. Post Don Cartagena, in my opinion, you know, it's hard to go back and say, man, you know, thank God for that, white is one of my favorite joints, you know. Post Don Cartagena, because he went crazy, right, but that's a Primo beat, that's a Primo doing what Primo does, right, right, right. It's hard to find anything else.

Speaker 1: 15:56

You want to know what I think y'all may have just changed my opinion, because when you said that Sean about it's like well, you said that Sean about it's like well, he's really not known for his mic performances, and I'm thinking about all the Fat Joe songs I've been popping my head to these last couple decades. I'm like might have a point, got a point Don Cartagena had some of the best.

Speaker 2: 16:13

I think Don Cartagena was better than Capital Punishment.

Speaker 1: 16:18

Absolutely Production-wise. Yes, it was more concise, it was more concise too. So I Production-wise. Yes, it was more concise, it was more concise too. Okay, so I tell people, the best songs on Pun's album are blowing out the stuff on Don Cartagena. But from beginning to end I'd rather listen to Don Cartagena. I've told people that people think I'm crazy. I'm like y'all are talking about Pun's mic performance.

Speaker 1: 16:39

Y'all are talking about the high-level songs like Dream Shatterer, super Lyrical and all that I was like, but the album. I told people all the time that I've got too many skits, it's too long. Some of the production is a little lackluster here and there. I don't know if the best is blowing out the best on Joe's album either, though I think Dream Shatterer, I think Dream Shatterer, dream is one of one. Dream Shadows is one of one that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 17:02

Dream Shadows has everything on the board. Don Cartagena has some of the best features. You're talking. Awesome Features are like.

Speaker 1: 17:09

Well, I was about to say the pun features, the pun hook on my World and the pun verse on John Blaze is part of what makes Don Cartagena so great. Yes, yeah, then you got joint with.

Speaker 2: 17:27

Nori Misery Needs Company. Yo, that joint is crazy. Love that record, jose Luis Yo.

Speaker 1: 17:31

Nori is one of the dopest non-lyrical cats ever man. People know Nori as a podcaster, but we got to do a Discord dialogue with Nori one day. Nori got over so much on style points. It's insane. I mean, there was a point that Nori was the hottest rapper in New York and people forget that it really was.

Speaker 2: 17:47

It was a brief moment, but it happened.

Speaker 1: 17:49

Nori and Thad, for a brief moment was like the hottest thing out.

Speaker 2: 17:53

And.

Speaker 1: 17:53

Nori gave Pharrell his big break. Nori has a lot to give thanks to. Pharrell has a lot to give thanks to Nori for, yeah, super Thug is what got them in the door. Yeah, absolutely. Do y'all see yourselves going back to this album? Because me personally, I ran it through twice. I don't really see myself revisiting this album anymore. It'll be 10 months and the cover's nasty work. Change that cover, no, I know what the cover is that's his brother man.

Speaker 2: 18:23

That's his brother. Oh, I didn't know that. No, I know what the cover is that's his brother man. That's his brother, oh I didn't know that.

Speaker 1: 18:26

See, now I have some context. Who just goes like, what is the cover? But for somebody that's dealing with a lot of loss right now, it appears to be the theme of my year. I can give that a slide. You want to know what I really thought about when I was listening to this album, and this is my trapped in the 90s moment. I'm like this is not the dude that I grew up with, from Digging in the Crates with Showbiz and AG and Lord Finesse and Big L. This is not that guy, and that's why I'm talking about the title of this album. The world changed on who you were from digging in the crates.

Speaker 2: 19:04

He's changed. He has changed a lot. This ain't the same joke. He has changed.

Speaker 1: 19:07

Remy's verse was dope. Remy's verse was dope. I seen what she was trying to do. Her flow was a little off, but the bars were there. I don't want to hear nothing from Remy right now.

Speaker 2: 19:17

I heard the voice before the verse came out. I changed the channel. I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 1: 19:23

Are we canceling Remy Because she's you know street rocker?

Speaker 2: 19:27

We listen and we judge, yeah for sure.

Speaker 1: 19:30

But last question, before we move on to you guys I said this was the year of the OG. You know we said Nas had a call to arms the end of last year on Magic 3 said, called my counterparts, told them to try this. Do you think this is Joe? Just you know, because he was doing his media thing. Do you think like he was just like yo? I got to throw my ring in the hat and, you know, put something out, and you think it wasn't inspired, he just did it to be doing it.

Speaker 2: 19:55

I think he did it to be doing it Honestly. I don't think that motivated Joe.

Speaker 1: 20:03

He's got so many, he's got such a good relationship with Kool and Dre. I do want to say that some of this was organic in its shape, you know, like I think I think the intention was organic. The execution was not. The execution was a 50 year old rapper trying to make 20 year old sounding records just like Busta Rhymes, and it's not going to work for your I'm about to start saying this more get you a young dude in the room.

Speaker 1: 20:34

If you're an old rapper, if you're really gonna take the Nas formula, you go get you a hit boy or go get hit boy. You know, go get somebody that's about 10 to 15 years younger than you, that's accredited like even or or. The parent just got to be special. You want to know what the best non-hit boy Nas pairing actually the last five years has been was Black Thought and Danger Mouse. Go get you somebody. But let's not act like this didn't have potential because I don't know if it was a year ago or two years ago. He dropped that joint project with Dre and that joint was pretty fire. I didn't know if it was a year ago or two years ago. He dropped that joint project with Dre and that joint was pretty fire.

Speaker 1: 21:09

I thought that project was way better than this one. It was, it was.

Speaker 2: 21:15

It was too obvious, honestly the beats, all the flips, all of the samples. It was just too heavy on that man. It was just way too heavy on that man. It was just way too heavy on that for me, I understand.

Speaker 1: 21:28

I went Sean on that one. Actually it was a little bit too much for me. It is better than this. That's not saying a whole lot, not saying much in my humble estimation. If you were even going to do something like he has so many connections, there were so many opportunities for him to do something it he he has so many connections, there were so many opportunities for him to do something. It's like I. I would love to hear, like you know, you got access to pun and big l like give me, you know, I mean, give me, give give me a moment, give me something. You're too connected to the history of hip-hop you're on return of the boom bap.

Speaker 1: 21:59

You're on krs1's return of the boom bap album. Like you, you're culturally're culturally so immersed in this thing. Give me some of that culture out of your album. Don't just give me the cool and dre like Miami vibe beats. You know what I'm saying? That's your style really. He's the best representative of free black men, that's a fact.

Speaker 2: 22:20

That's a fact. That's a difference between him and the GOAT, honestly, because if you really think about it to your point, cool, you got fun, you have fun, you have you got stories that you can share, but you can't put those stories tastefully and organically and make it creative Like a Nas doing a store run and Nas talking about reminisce and make it creative like a Nas doing a store run and Nas talking about reminisce.

Speaker 2: 22:45

you can't do songs like that at this stage in your career because Joe was around for a long time too, and if you can't package those kind of stories and make it appealing for an audience that was growing up with you, then, yeah, you're going to miss the boat all the time.

Speaker 1: 22:59

Well, this is why I don't understand the album Sean. He tells these stories on live air all the time.

Speaker 2: 23:06

All the time. That's a great point.

Speaker 1: 23:11

It's time to rap about it. I'm like hold on. It's like he has so much history at the tip of his fingertips and it's like you don't want to share any of this on the album. Valid point. Valid points.

Speaker 2: 23:26

Valid points. Some of the stories be incoherent. Some of the stories be all over. You all got to stop everything.

Speaker 1: 23:33

How about this? Nas has told multiple stories on record about being in Queens and feeling the pain from the bridges over. Show us from the Bronx, talk about the other side of what it's like when the bridges overdraw. You us from the Bronx, talk about the other side of what it's like when the bridge is overdrawn. You're in the Bronx when the bridge is overdrawn. Talk about what it was like for the Bronx. You feel what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 23:52

I don't think he can articulate himself in that manner. He's not a writer.

Speaker 1: 23:57

Joe was not a writer, that makes me misplund that you said that when you said that I was like. Oh, I was like, oh, I missed pun yeah, yeah yeah, all right, let's slide to some anniversaries, if we can fellas, starting off with a little ele from buster rhymes, december 15th 1998 um the ele, buster rhymes best album. That's the same thing I was gonna ask I think I think it is.

Speaker 1: 24:24

I was going to pose that question to y'all because I think it is. I think people refer to when Disaster Strikes the most, but I think this is better. I think so.

Speaker 2: 24:34

I think this is it. I think it's still going.

Speaker 1: 24:37

Yeah, the big song's on here, I mean, put your hands Hold on, hold on when Disaster Strikes, put your hands where my eyes can see them, yeah, but outside of that, I think this album is smoking when Disaster Strikes.

Speaker 2: 24:48

This one. You got Janet Jackson on this one. That's big.

Speaker 1: 24:54

And I might be in the minority, but I'm a big Anarchy fan too. I love Anarchy, Anarchy is crazy Anarchy's underrated, it doesn't get enough news. It is Anarchy is underrated, it doesn't get enough news. It's in his top five albums. Very much, very much so.

Speaker 2: 25:09

Busta will run. You got to give Busta credit. He was knocking them out year after year. He was a little run he was.

Speaker 1: 25:21

But I mean just for me, I still think Becoming is his best album because I think his two best songs are still on there Everything Remains Wrong. Wu Hai still two of his three best records in my opinion. And when I look at Ill Vibe with Q-Tip, it's a Party with John, a Flip Mo Squad meets Death Squad. There's a lot of stuff on the Cummins. I feel like the Cummins didn't get enough to do. I'm probably still going to lean on the Cummins and it might just be my bias for the buster that I kind of remember and what it was like.

Speaker 1: 25:48

I think and and this is crazy, and I think this is the thing that's marked his career all of these albums are dope that he did on this like stretch around. He never made a top five rap album for the year when he came out like think about it the comments 96. Yeah, he doesn't have a definitive classic album. We get on the Method man and Jadakiss a lot, but Busta doesn't have one of those either. His projects are better than their projects, though. His projects are better than their projects.

Speaker 1: 26:14

He was consistent, that's fair. Yeah, he was consistent.

Speaker 1: 26:17

You know consistent B-plus area you know, and a bigger and a better hit maker than both of them. Right, but I think the reason why I think ELE is his best album because he's a more complete artist on ELE than he was on his previous two projects, the Coming and when Disaster Strikes. I can agree with that. I can agree with that. All the tools that are in his bag are evidenced in full on ELE. It's not just a piece of the bag, it is all the gifts that you're getting, and not instant full on ELE. It's not just a piece of the bag, it is all the gifts that you're getting, not for nothing.

Speaker 1: 26:47

We're going to talk about sequel albums here shortly, but I think that's why he went back to it and named the one album ELE 2, because I think he's referencing that as his one. That's the one that's the closest For my catalog. Yeah, if you pick a sequel album, you're going to pick the. You know what I mean. You pick your cream of the crop, you pick your manifesto. He did pick ELE, you're right, not the ELE. Aj, that's a good one. We're going to slide to Nicki Minaj with the pink print, december 15th 2014. To Nicki Minaj with the pink print, december 15th 2014. I'm going to tell you, like David Alan Greer and Damon Wayans told us on Men On Film, hated it Next. Keep going, yo. The views and opinions of Coop are not that of Hip Hop Talk, so we don't want the Barbz coming for us.

Speaker 2: 27:38

We don't want the Barbz coming for us. We welcome you doing that Coop, though we would love to see that that would be fun.

Speaker 1: 27:45

You're all getting together. The side wasn't no good. All right, next Go ahead. What do you guys have?

Speaker 2: 27:51

I don't know what to say on it. I know AG probably want to pander. So, AG, what do you want to say?

Speaker 1: 27:56

I'm not saying anything after that I'm just leaving it alone.

Speaker 2: 28:05

I'm just like I'm, just like the whole by himself, and they hit up his social.

Speaker 1: 28:07

Hit him up on socials. It was definitely Queens get the money. Because she took everybody money and ran yes, she did. Yeah, this album had too many features for me, but she was a megastar by the time this dropped, like you know, and you could tell she was leaning into that. You know, pop heavy bag and it had a lot of features. Heavy bag and it had um, a lot of features. Uh, not my favorite from her, but you know, this is this is the transition I feel like. This is when she stopped rapping. That's why I'm not a fan of the album yeah, Very, very.

Speaker 1: 28:35

She's a pop star, you know, and different audience.

Speaker 2: 28:39

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:41

I mean being a different artist. I mean the music can't be good. Music still ain't that good. But whatever, We'll slide to the next one Iron Flag, December 18, 2001. Don't do it, Kool, Fellas, fellas. He said don't do it, Kool, I'm going to leave this. You want to know what, Sean? You take the lead. Go ahead, Tell me what you think about Iron Flag.

Speaker 2: 29:00

No, I'll bit underwhelming in real time. I'm not going to lie. This album came out in 2001. Hell, this album came out the same day as it Still Matters, didn't it? It did it still matters, yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:14

It was underwhelming. I'm not going to sit here and sugarcoat it. Pinky Ring didn't really grow on me until later on, because I think the W was before this right. It was the W in 2000 and then you dropped this in 2001 and I felt like Wu was trying to find their feeling on both albums. I think the W was a pretty solid effort but I think when it got to the flag, the Iron Flag, I really feel like they kind of just trying to get their feeling back. You could tell the chemistry was off. You could tell they were all doing their own thing. Different mindset. It probably didn't even want to put together this album so soon because it still was trying to crank out the solo joints. You know from those who weren't even, you know, really out there like that Right. And we saw some misses. Immobiliarity was a miss leading up to this. You know, debt was a miss leading up to this. Golden Arms was a miss leading up to this.

Speaker 1: 30:13

There was a lot of stuff going on before this happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of that, what you mentioned, sean, about the album coming out so quick, oh, real quick. I mean I left the vinyl upstairs. I meant to grab that vinyl, shout out to my son my son bought me um iron flag for my birthday last year. You know I'm saying my son, george, so he know I'm a wu-tang fan. So cop that joy for me.

Speaker 1: 30:33

I appreciate it okay, did you did you tell your son after you got the vinyl he could have done better, like they could have okay oh nah, nah, we'll take us for the children, man, man.

Speaker 1: 30:43

But this was, you know, this was when the fall off was clear. The W you could see signs of it as the group, but the iron flag was when it was evident that it was falling off at that point. But what I'll rebut to what Sean says. Sean said is I heard half this album around the time the W came out. It's weird because a lot of the tracks I think they recorded during the w sessions and remember kaza, the downloading site that was around that time. I had half of these tracks like months and months before the album came out.

Speaker 1: 31:19

So to me that always begged the question why do two albums you know, back to back two years in a row and just put the best songs together from both projects, trim all the fat and have a real potent album? Because I remember I did that at the time. I like burned the cd, took the best songs from each and then just made like one dope woo album and it was fire. But that's kind of the approach that I wonder why rizza didn't take that at the time, unless they just really wanted to spin the block the next year because it was so many years that went between Wu releases. They never did that as a group before come back the very next year. So maybe he just wanted to keep the Wu name buzzing, you know, in back-to-back years. But if it were me, I would have just took the best from both projects and made one really dope. Could have been close to a four-and-a-half, mike, I would have did that.

Speaker 1: 32:17

Let me ask both of you something. First of all, we all agree Uzi Pinky rings the best song on there, right, are we agreed? I like Reasons, I like Dashing Reasons. That joint go hard. I like Dashing Me. And my son's favorite song is the Glock. We play that joint all the time.

Speaker 2: 32:43

He loves the Glock.

Speaker 1: 32:44

Okay, so let's say we were to take Y'all been warned. Son's favorite song is the Glock. We play that joint all the time. He loves the Glock.

Speaker 2: 32:48

Let's say we were to take.

Speaker 1: 32:49

Y'all Been Worn Mess. Go Crazy on that. That's one of my best, better verses. The beat is fire. If you could pick two tracks from Iron Flag, what two are we taking? Pinky Ring and what else? I'm taking the Glock. Taking the Glock, you cool with that? Yeah, that was me and Sean's theme song when we was chilling, right when you were chilling at Shelby. Yeah, that was our theme right there when we was dealing with Overzealous Crackheads.

Speaker 2: 33:21

Talking to AG, we got a crackhead in the corner. Good thing we brought the Glock. Oh, I forgot.

Speaker 1: 33:33

You brought it with the ball Kupo, sorry. I was definitely looking at AG like why. I was looking like, hey, why AG keep tapping his jack. I'm like, oh, never mind, oh, okay, I'm going to start looking around. I was like, oh, okay, I'm like, oh, never mind, okay, I'm going to start looking around. I was like, oh, okay, but yeah, that's my joint, man, me and my son, we listen to that. That joint goes so hard, man, we listen to that joint a lot. So let's say we were to take Gravel Pit and yeah, gravel Pit's got to go. Let's say we were to take Gravel Pit. What's the other weakest song on the W? Because I actually think the W is criminally underrated.

Speaker 2: 34:08

I think so too. I think over, yeah, in hindsight overrated yes.

Speaker 1: 34:14

Here's how I feel. I feel like the W not getting the response that it deserved prompted them to take these tracks, which I think probably this was probably supposed to be another double album, and I think they was like well, we can't do that again. I think the lukewarm reception to the W from their core fan base I think prompted them about not trying to suffer the fate that the duel of the Iron, michael and Liquid Swords is talking about. Caused them to do something that they weren't really known to do, which is to rush a product. And this is the result when the greatest rap group ever rushes a product, it's this. This is what it is, because, truthfully, they would have just and I was just asking y'all because I kind of feel there I feel like there's about four or five really good songs on Iron Flag. I'm like, well, just take those two or three worst songs off the W and put them on Iron Flag and you actually have your flag replanted in this game.

Speaker 1: 35:12

Absolutely, some of it is just revisionist history and unfortunate. Because when I go back and listen to the W, I'm like, man, no, hollow Bones is great. Careful Click, click is great. I Can't Sleep is great. Careful click, click is great. I can't sleep is great. Let my niggas all these joints, these uh conditioner with snoop and odb. It's like no, these records are dope. It just wasn't into the wu-tang and wu-tang forever and so it had people feeling like it was over because of some of the solo releases. And I'm and I'm actually going to be nice today and not include kappa in that, because kappa's album is better than Deck album and you Got album and all that stuff. That was like the dark ages of Wu-Tang Clan and the W was actually the W and Supreme Clientele are actually the shining light of it. The rest of the stuff is just not that good.

Speaker 2: 35:57

Yeah, and the.

Speaker 1: 35:58

Ghost Dog soundtrack. The Ghost Dog soundtrack was hard. It was just the beats. I was a little mad at RZA for giving the beats to a soundtrack. But Cakes with Kool G rap was crazy. But real quick, coop. I'm glad you brought up Cappadonna. Iron Flag hold a special place to me because this was the first time he got acknowledged as an official member of the Woo. He's on the cover, nothing said featuring Cappadonna anymore. So that was dope. And out of all the Wu albums this is my favorite cover. You know taking that iconic shot. You know what I'm saying. See how I give you an inch and you take a mile. See how I give you an inch and you take a mile.

Speaker 1: 36:33

See how I give you an inch and you take a mile. Hey, man.

Speaker 2: 36:36

It's Wu-Tang Forever over here Wu-Tang Forever, wu-tang Forever. No, I agree that is an iconic shot because that's, you know, marines on Iwo Jima. So they kind of owe a day to the Marines on Iwo Jima.

Speaker 1: 36:48

Yeah, when my son bought that album for me, like he knew the reference, I was like, okay, you was paying attention to history class.

Speaker 2: 36:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:57

I just I think RZA was in such a.

Speaker 2: 37:00

Go ahead, Kool.

Speaker 1: 37:01

Go ahead.

Speaker 2: 37:05

Go ahead, kool, go ahead. Go ahead to the RZA point, because I think we're about to make the same point. Go ahead. I think RZA was in such a different space musically, man, because you're talking about the Bobby Digital era. Even you think about the album. The Sting came out that he produced and it was just heavy, heavy digital man, no analog. He just went away from his sound. He went away from that RZA sound and he was spearing so many different things original concepts, original music. Rza's greatest feat to me was the fact that he was able to take one song and make 12 tracks off of one song. Sample one song and make 12 tracks in different ways. To me, that's the greatest feat that any producer can do on a budget. He's not doing that, no more. He's actually composing original music.

Speaker 1: 37:53

And that's beautiful, but this we're going to keep on saying this about the OGs but what do you do best? Is that what you do best? You should do what you do best. We are all taught in life to do what we do best.

Speaker 1: 38:05

This is where, when people talk about money and power and how it corrupts, well, it's really not the money and the power that corrupts, it's the freedom that it provides that corrupts, because the reality of the matter is that, well, think about how many years he had to work analog versus digital. You're a master at one, you're learning the other. Yeah, and that made it innovative because his resources was limited. So you have to be innovative. You have to be innovative, and as innovative as it was. Nobody's done more with less, probably production. What's the phrase?

Speaker 1: 38:43

Go Poverty is the father of invention, or something like that. I forget how it goes. It is, it is. But look at it like this, and this I do hold against him, and it probably is what's keeping him from being the greatest producer of all time. Think about the stuff that Dr Dre made before Suge sat him down at that board at Death Row, and then think about what he did when he actually got access. That's what I'm saying. Rza didn't necessarily level up with the access, dream leveled up with the access, dre leveled up with the access, and that's why I have them ahead of him. They leveled up with the access. You can tell when their equipment and their stuff got better and went digital too, then still they knocked it out the park more.

Speaker 2: 39:25

Yeah, that's true but you brought up, oh go ahead Coop.

Speaker 1: 39:29

My fault, I'm just holding him to his high end contemporaries. But you brought up Death Row and before we go on to the next thing, I just want somebody to screenshot this and photoshop Coop with the vibe cover of Death Row, with Shug, pac, snoop and all the all black with the chains. You know what I'm saying? Photoshop Coop in there with the vibe cover. You know what I'm saying? I just got that request from one savvy fan out there. That's all I got to say.

Speaker 2: 40:02

Yo, we got a couple of super chats.

Speaker 1: 40:04

Get your gold chains from TrioGoldShopcom, that's all I got to say Yo, we got a couple of super chats. All right, Get your gold chains from Triogoldshopcom. We got a sale going on at the end of the year. You can get you a Cuban Lincoln or Franco too. About to put a couple of diamond pieces on my Franco About to drop a couple jewels on there soon, Coming soon. Good job, All right, you wear super chats. There you go, fellas Can. All right, you were super chat. There you go, fellas. Can you see AG? Yeah, what's up to CJ? The kid would follow our super chat. We appreciate you. What's up, fellas? Bless you guys. As always, anything I missed? Um, just cover some new music. Uh, fat Joe's new album. And we're going through some uh classic, uh music Robusta Rhymes, ELE, Nicki Minaj, Pink Print, Wu-Tang, Iron Falak which is not classic? I'll keep it real. That's all we've covered so far.

Speaker 1: 40:51

You see the other one. Oh yeah, CJ the Kid with another $5 Super Chat. I'll take Rumble from you. Got Over Most Tracks on the Pillage. Don't shoot me.

Speaker 2: 41:00

Dude man, he don't know where to stop. Man, he don't know where to stop man.

Speaker 1: 41:03

He don't know where to stop. You're going to have to stop. That's going too far. This is for somebody this is for me who doesn't like the pillage. Like that we're going too far. We're going too far, darth Rowan's on the pillage. I remember when I first heard Rubble by you guys, I was like what is going?

Speaker 2: 41:18

on. Yeah, I got a crazy story about it. Yo, t2 is crazy. Man, shout out to T2, man, t2's new album is all.

Speaker 1: 41:31

You know T2 is one of those guys. You know what T2 is. T2 is the guy. He's the most hated guy on the team that you play, but as soon as he becomes your teammate, he's your favorite person. He's your favorite person.

Speaker 2: 41:44

He's like Metta World.

Speaker 1: 41:45

Peace he is. He's our test. Yeah, he is Right. It's like man. It's like I can't stand that guy. It's like he play on our team. It's like we about to win the championship.

Speaker 2: 41:52

Right.

Speaker 1: 41:57

So you two is hip hop talks. Ron our test, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:59

That, that's right, yeah. From the bridge Ain't I?

Speaker 1: 42:03

test from the bridge.

Speaker 2: 42:04

Yeah, I test from the bridge. I test from the bridge.

Speaker 1: 42:06

You can tell from how he play basketball Definitely play basketball like he had a pistol in his hand All right, that's what we do Go ahead, go ahead. Cj the kid with another photo of Super Chat, Appreciate it. I was going to say, Coop, I see you with the firm fit in the car. Be careful out there. What am I going?

Speaker 2: 42:31

to do All right.

Speaker 1: 42:36

The last anniversary we have. Don't believe that I'm saying. This is actually my favorite albums of the one that we've mentioned so far, which is Lupe Fiasco's the Cool, which was released December 18, 2007. Guys, I would just like to say I think this is still Lupe's best album. I think so highly of this album, guys, and I'm never going to stop glowing about it, even if I don't always agree with some of the personal aesthetics and thoughts and feelings of the person who made the album and thoughts and feelings of the person who made the album.

Speaker 1: 43:03

I consider this album to be Illidel by Midnight Marauders. Stakes is High level type of album. It's better than anything. Most definitely quality did, in my opinion, and that's together and solo Go. I agree with you, kool.

Speaker 1: 43:19

It's crazy because it's not stated enough how Lupe dropped back-to-back classics, because I feel like Food and Liquor is a classic, but the Cool. I don't think I would be overselling it if I said this is a brilliant album, like conceptually, from front to back, this album is conceptually brilliant. Man Lupe, as a writer, is in his bag on this album storytelling, deep concepts, um, the beat selection that he used, flow and pocket, like this album literally has everything. This is lupe at his zenith. You know what I mean. So, yeah, I'm with you, coop. Out of all the uh, you know ones that we just named so far, this has been my favorite at the anniversary so far. I played this album more than any album that came out in 2006, 2007, and 2008,. With the exception of Hell, half no Fury by the Clips. That's how highly I thought of this album. If my daughter could remember, she would be a Lupe fan, because when she was a baby, this was the album that played in the car with her the most Cause. Even when I was younger, it's like I don't want to be playing all this, all this trap dope boy music, for let me go ahead and put on the cool why baby girl in the backseat, and so that that was what I used to ride to man it is. It has some of everything. It has hit records. It has thoughtful conceptual records. It has thoughtful conceptual records. It's got far work out of this world.

Speaker 1: 44:46

Go Go, gadget Flow and Dumb it Down is, lyrically, some of the best stuff you'll find. This side of a, I feel like the end of their first prime, jay and Nas' prime. I actually thought this was the guy that was lyrically about to take the mantle. When I heard this album I was like this, this is the guy. This is the guy, because dumb it down was the first rap record I heard. I'm like nas can't make that record, sign me up for him next. Yo cool, yo get out of my head. Man for real, like that serious, like it sounds crazy to say this now, but when this album dropped I remember I was telling a lot of my friends like this guy is the perfect hybrid of Jay and Nas.

Speaker 1: 45:27

He can make a hit sounding yeah, man, he can make a hit sounding record effortlessly flows, always in pocket cutting through the tracks. But he's really deep as a writer conceptually. You know what I mean, if I ever you know, I feel like you know, jay and Nas are really not even similar. They're both great lyricists but they're not even similar. But I think if they ever had like, if they ever had a baby, so to speak, lupe around this time was the perfect hybrid between those two MCs as far as what Nas is great at and what Jay is great at. So this is the greatest compliment I can pay him.

Speaker 1: 46:06

Everybody looked to those two and bought and took from those two From his era. He is actually the person that showed himself the ability early on to apply it the best, and that is the highest praise I can give any MC Like from his whole like. That includes TI Wayne, gain Ross, like all those guys. It's like, yeah, he was the guy, but after this album he went somewhere else. But his trajectory was at this time he was the perfect hybrid between the two. I thought I was hearing a potential top 10 MC all the time. When I heard Goddamn Listenin' to the Cool, I'm like, oh man, I was like this dude, keep this up, he's going to be up there, up there, up there. When it's done, he's not missing anything. Because it's hard to keep somebody, it's hard to make a Paris Tokyo, a Dumb it Down and a Hip Hop Save my Life in one album.

Speaker 2: 46:54

But you won games.

Speaker 1: 46:55

Yes, it's really the coolest. The record's the coolest. Oh my God, crazy, crazy, crazy. Five mics, easy, easy five mic really the coolest, the record the coolest, oh my god, crazy, crazy, crazy. Five mics, easy, easy, five, more five so what happened to?

Speaker 1: 47:12

him. That's what I. He wanted to be too smart and wrap over everybody's heads. It's, it's right. It's like game said see, I stayed the same, didn't go weird like Lupe when he said that. I was like, oh, he shouldn't have said that, but it is the truth. He just went too far left. He just went too far left and, to be honest with you, it wasn't until these last couple of projects that he really started to come back to give us something palatable, not something like you have to understand what palatable means. It means something that, beyond us as hip-hop heads, we're going to listen and sit down and digest and talk about all these entendres and this cornucopia of metaphors and similes and alliterations and bar work that he uses. But at the end of the day, the people that are not like us are like yo is the record dope and it's like a lot of the time with him, the answer has been no.

Speaker 1: 48:05

Lupe knows how smart he is, and I think after this album, he got to be focused on trying to prove that. Take it from somebody that has often been the smartest guy in the room too. That shit is overrated. Lupe, please make some fire shit, let's go. The music gotta sound good. The music gotta sound good. That was always the buy-in. The buy-in was always. It wasn't even about remember. It wasn't even about like remember. It didn't always used to be about can the guy rap? Can the guy not rap?

Speaker 2: 48:28

It's like can he make a?

Speaker 1: 48:29

dope song. Can he make a dope song? It was to connect.

Speaker 2: 48:33

I've always wished that Lupe would have got into the studio more often with Kanye, Because the Lupe that we saw on Touch the Sky and then you go into this album and you see what he can do he needed some direction. He needed the right people in the studio with him. He needed a family to put their arm around him.

Speaker 1: 48:52

Do you think let's say Lupe does? I love that, sean. Let's dig on this real quick before we slide. Do you think what does Lupe's career look like if, instead of Common getting B and finding Forever, that goes to Lupe? What does a career?

Speaker 2: 49:09

look like.

Speaker 1: 49:10

Y'all forget. They were supposed to make an album that's CRS Child Rebel Soldiers. It was supposed to be Kanye, pharrell and Lupe. They were going to make a collab album.

Speaker 2: 49:18

They got derailed.

Speaker 1: 49:20

Circa 2000,. I want to say 10?

Speaker 2: 49:25

I think it was 8 or 9.

Speaker 1: 49:28

Okay, but yeah, they were in deep talks of making an album, but it never came to fruition. First of all, when Kanye talks about making an album, I don't believe it. The same thing happens with Pharrell.

Speaker 2: 49:40

This one, Kanye, was still. You know. I don't know if he was ever that, but he was ever that.

Speaker 1: 49:45

He was close to it, he was close to it, man, that future Metro album has turned out to be the best rap album of all time. We can't trust you. All I had to say to everybody was we can't trust you, Can't trust that. We still can't trust you. Still can't. Speaking about people. You can't trust Skip Bayless, that's right. Speaking about people. You can't trust Skip Bayless, that's right. Skip Bayless interviewed Lil Wayne. This thing is crazy. But Skip Bayless interviewed Lil Wayne guys and Lil Wayne had some insightful things I guess you could say. I mean, it'd be so hard to call the stuff Wayne say insightful, because it's like 50-50 what you're going to get when you get a Wayne interview. Because it's like 50-50 what you're going to get when you get a Wayne interview. But I hate this humble downplay approach that he is taking with this. But, fellas, tell me what you think about just the Wayne interview with Skip and just the thoughts about the phone call of Kendrick, his thoughts about the Super Bowl and all that. I didn't like it.

Speaker 2: 50:42

Can we get these two super chats real quick before we answer that? Sure, all right and all that. I didn't like it.

Speaker 1: 50:46

Can we get these two super chats real quick before we answer that? Sure, cj the Kid, yo appreciate the $20 super chat he says. I was in my music school anniversary party and a DJ told me the best I played made him want to cry. I never thought I'd hear that. I'm sharing it here because you guys are on the journey with me, yo, that's dope CJ.

Speaker 2: 51:06

Appreciate that. Forget your journey man.

Speaker 1: 51:08

Yo, that's crazy. Sean Yo Esquire yo. Peace bro. Thanks for the $5 super chat. His situation with Atlantic jaded him with lasers released, that's true. Since then he made a conscious effort to go as left as possible from that point forward. That's very correct. Shout left as possible from that point forward.

Speaker 2: 51:27

That's very correct Shout out to CJ.

Speaker 1: 51:29

Sean, you want to take the Wayne thing first? Excuse me for one moment.

Speaker 2: 51:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:35

I don't like this man, wayne, acting like he didn't know that all the fun was for him. He acting like he didn't tweet out. You know, while y'all messing with me, leave me alone before you wake up the dragon or whatever he said. I don't like that man. Like you get on there with Skip and you're acting like you know. You're oblivious to all of this. You know what I'm saying, that you're oblivious to what's going on around you and you're not, I'm sure. And you, if he didn't hear the song, like you said, he didn't hear the song. Someone in his circle told him, which I believe, like someone touched you.

Speaker 1: 52:11

Like you know, like Did you hear it, you got it.

Speaker 2: 52:14

Someone in your circle even if you didn't hear it, someone in your circle told you. You're not that, you're not that In reality, come on, come on, this is stuff that I don't like. Man, you realize you might not have it and you realize you may not want to get into the ring with Kendrick at this time. Just admit to that, it's okay. It's okay, I hate that. I don't.

Speaker 1: 52:40

First of all, I think more highly of him getting with Kendrick in the ring than a lot of other people do. I have him ahead of Kendrick. I do think he's a better emcee than Kendrick overall, but no, wayne, I have Wayne over Kendrick. Oh, wow, yeah, I do. It's too much. It's too much. How about this when you take five years off and then come back with a subpar product? Guys like Wayne, I will not let you jump over. No, no, no, not Wayne, not with all, no, not with all those albums and mixtapes and verses and surviving eras and being part of one of the greatest rap crews of all time. It, like it even has a cultural icon is still a way bigger impact than Kendrick. There's not a lot of Kendrick's running around. There's a whole bunch of Waynes running around.

Speaker 2: 53:27

There's a lot. There's a lot of them.

Speaker 1: 53:30

That's a good thing. I didn't say it was a good thing, but I don't love his comments. I've never been a fan of Waynes' interviews because so many of the interviews have been nonsensical that it's hard to tell the difference between the truth and the lie. I am like you, sean. I'm like well, I've heard enough about you. You know through circles to know that. Do I think that you heard this record? No, I don't think you heard this record, but I know the people around you heard the record and played it for you. So why are you playing? Why are we playing?

Speaker 1: 54:01

You heard this record. Why are you playing like you didn't hear this record? You heard this record. Why are you playing like you didn't?

Speaker 2: 54:06

hear this record. Somebody played the record for you in the studio.

Speaker 1: 54:08

You live in the studio. People be forgetting like that is like there's a world of us out here that have like been in recording studios and lived in recording studios and we are the people when he says that we are looking at him like now fool. You know what we do when we're in the studio. We talk about each other, we listen to each other's music on downtime and some of the homies is always coming up with something new.

Speaker 1: 54:30

Half the rap beats that I found out about I found out about when I was recording in the studio, because somebody walked into the studio and was like oh yo, such and such just dropped this record. Don't stop acting like that. Don't happen. That happens to you. Right, and just say, like you know, I heard the record. I didn't love it. I reached out to him about it. I'm not happy about the Super Bowl thing. Jay screwed me over. Keep it a book. Keep it a book. Like you are one of our goats, you are one of our icons. It's like you do have the right to say those things. Stop doing this whole coy 17-year-old Lil Wayne thing. You're 47.

Speaker 2: 55:09

I didn't know he was going at me. I ended up following him. Come on, don't do that. You know what I don't like about it more is because he mentioned that he called Kendrick and congratulated him, said you better kill it. But on the other side of that thing he was talking about like yo, I'm disappointed because they didn't look out for me and let me do it. Which one is it? Which one is it Because you got the Barbz and you got Nicki. You got everyone on your back like saying yo, we got your back, this is Rome. You know they're going at Kendrick and Jay and everyone who's responsible in their mind for this. For the strength of you, you come out on Skip Bayless' platform and you're saying I didn't know he was going at me.

Speaker 1: 55:56

I didn't hear that.

Speaker 2: 55:56

I don't know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1: 55:59

He tweeted out the same day. The album dropped like leave me alone. He tweeted.

Speaker 2: 56:04

Again. Maybe he was hot, I don't know. I don't want to put that on him, but maybe he was hot, I don't know. But to Kool's point, artists know who artists are talking about. You know what I mean. No exception to the rule, you know. You have an idea. If someone says something about you, whether it's subliminal, whether it's direct or whatever, you know people in your camp are telling you.

Speaker 1: 56:28

There you go. Yeah, if you don't hear it directly, it's going to get to you one way or another. I mean, this is what I mean. Think about this Y'all remember that classic J and Nas picture where Nas is in the blue bubble coat. I remember the first time I saw that picture I was like, oh, these guys are petty. I was like both of you guys just got here. I'm already hearing you talk about each other. Y'all are taking pictures together. I'm like get out of here with this. That was 1997. That was 1997. That was four years before it quote unquote popped off. I'm like nah, it been popping. It was popping on day one. It was when it popped off when Jay showed up. When Jay showed up, that's when it popped off. Why are we acting like it popped off when Jay showed up? Yeah, it did, because guess what? Nas was supposed to come to the studio and record. The record Didn't come. Jay didn't like it and it's been something ever since. Yeah, facts.

Speaker 2: 57:17

And that's one of my biggest pet peeves.

Speaker 1: 57:20

They said it too. They ain't never said it either. That's why I'm talking. I'm so sick of these dudes doing this every single time. It's like just tell the truth. Yeah, that's, that's one of my biggest pet peeves of any rapper to act like that. They're so out of touch and they don't listen to nobody else.

Speaker 1: 57:34

I think it was a thing circulating a couple years ago. Kendrick said he don't even own a phone. Like you know what I mean. Like I was just like no, it was thing. Like Kendrick said he don't own a phone and like Wayne acted like he didn't hear this track. I'm just like yo man, stop the cap. Like Coop said, just call it what it is. But I did see a lot of people online. I'm not a Skip Bayless fan so I'm not shooting him, no bail. But they were trying to say that Skip was clout chasing, bringing Wayne on there to jump off his show. But you know I can't say that like Skip and Wayne have been friends for a long time, so this is not a clout chase move by Skip Bayless. They actually have a friendly relationship.

Speaker 2: 58:15

So yeah, I don't think that was clout, because they are really close, right, because, oh, I don't like it goes, I don't like it. That's why I respect as much as I didn't like Cam back in the day when he was going at Nas. You got to respect the fact that Cam and those guys, they were fearless, they didn't care. You say their names, you're going to get a response. You say Game's name, you're going to get a response and he's not going to stop.

Speaker 2: 58:44

That's what happened with 50. He went at 50 at the time when G-Unit was on the top of the mountain. He didn't care If Kendrick were to say the same thing to Game that he said to Snoop. If he would have said, you know, game shit, and I posted the song or whatever Drake's song Game would be on his head the following two hours straight up. He wouldn't. He doesn't care. I respect that. I respect that more than saying I don't know what's going on. I didn't hear. Yeah, I don't respect.

Speaker 1: 59:12

That's crazy well, what I gotta ask you guys is how much do you think it was all cap that joe button was saying on his podcast? Or did he just get fed wrong information? Because I found that hard to believe. I think I said on this show, like some weeks ago when he was like Wayne is in the booth because enough of a response. I said that's hard to believe because push the T was going at Wayne for years and Wayne never went in the booth really on, you know, on pusher. So why is he going to do it now behind this Kendrick situation?

Speaker 2: 59:41

I texted you when that happened. I texted you when that happened. I said yo. I said Joe is saying something, but that's not happening. I was in when that came out and Wayne was not nowhere close to a booth. He wasn't. Even the people that's close to Wayne was telling Wayne to stay away from that, for right now don't engage don't engage you can't engage Kendrick right now.

Speaker 2: 1:00:06

It's too dangerous. I know I see what you're doing, but I'm just saying it's too dangerous to engage Kendrick right now. If anybody who could possibly do it because of his fame was Wayne, he had a puncher's shot.

Speaker 1: 1:00:24

Yeah, but Kendrick's the new people's champ. Wayne was the people's champ before and he's not anymore.

Speaker 2: 1:00:29

Bingo, bingo, bingo. But they don't hate you, right, right.

Speaker 1: 1:00:36

They don't and what I would submit to you and this is, of course it's always going to sound shady and petty coming from me when I'm talking about Kendrick Is GNX really staying in people's consciousness like that? Outside of Cali, I'm still running the album personally.

Speaker 2: 1:00:52

It's out there, it's still moving, it's still moving.

Speaker 1: 1:00:57

Coop, it's still moving. No, no, no. I'm asking legitimately because I haven't been active because of the personal stuff to really keep track of how the team leads have been going for the last two weeks. So I am sincerely asking like, oh, how is it moving? Because just for me, let's never forget the J move on Prodigy. As soon as he realized H&S he wasn't moving, he was like, oh, let me go hit Yank, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:22

And again position oh, he's still with this. Again position oh, he's so this. Okay, he's not there, he's not.

Speaker 1: 1:01:27

yeah, yeah, let me go let me go ahead and pull his card. What I'm hearing the most, you know I'm saying just on different things, and moving and shaking like a squabble up is, of course, making a lot of brown steel. The title track, which I'm not a big fan of, gnx, that's getting a lot of play. And uh, gloria, gloria is getting a lot of play as well. So, yeah, gloria, in my opinion, is probably the best song on there. Squabble up is my favorite song on there. I did give both of those songs a five and so I'm I'm with if those records, if those records are still spinning them all for those, because I do think those two records are the closest thing that he has to a greatest hits. Something on GNX which Mr Morale has none of, which was my problem. I'm like, no, there's classic stuff on this GNX, never going to let it go, going to be petty for life. I'm going to be petty for life. Shout out to Wayne.

Speaker 1: 1:02:24

No, not shout out to Wayne. No, wayne. No, not shout out to Wayne. No, stop being so nice to these guys. This is rap. I want to finish you with love. Speaking of love, I love to talk about this guy. J Cole did Madison Square Garden. Now, if he can only do a classic rap album, keep going. Guys. J Cole at the Garden, yo dope show at the garden by.

Speaker 1: 1:02:44

J Cole. Now, if you can only do a classic rap album, keep going, guys. North Carolina J Cole at the Garden. Yo dope show at the Garden by J Cole. Like was able to stream that joint live because you know subscription to the Inevitable podcast, so got to stream that joint. I subscribed so that I could see the show and so that I could hear those bonus tracks. So I didn't see the show. Yeah, yeah, the joint was dope Um and the setup.

Speaker 1: 1:03:07

He gave out 500 free tickets uh, prior to the um people to come see him rehearse. And then he had the um 2014 tickets that were for a dollar to keep the dollar in a dream um, uh theme going. But the show itself he, of course, he performed uh 2014 force heels driving full. But he did a little intermission in between to perform his hits. Like you know, workout and uh, power trip and um. You know I'm saying other joints like uh can't get enough. He did that and um outside of the hits.

Speaker 1: 1:03:40

The biggest highlight of the show for me was he went into his mixtape bag. He just dropped those mixtape bag. He just dropped those mixtapes on streaming and he did joints. Like you know, off the warm up, like grown simba. He did joint off. Uh, friday night lights, um, uh, two-face. Two-face is one of my favorite j cole songs of all time. So when you're really in front of your base, these are not a quote-unquote like hit records or um, or they're deep cuts. You know what I'm saying. Like I can't explain how hype I was when I was at a nas concert and he did. You know I'm saying take it in blood, or he did. You know I'm saying um, you know joints like that. You know joints from the lost tapes.

Speaker 1: 1:04:22

I think he did Purple, do Rags and one concert I went to. Like when you're in front of your bass and you can pull deep cuts like that, that means something. And he's performing a mixtape joint in the garden in front of like 20,000 people. That's dope. You know what I mean. But yeah, and he did 2014 Forest Hills Drive in his entirety.

Speaker 1: 1:04:44

The stage set was dope to look like his house. It was on a slant. He about fell once. Well, he did fall Coming off the slant one time. That joke was kind of funny. But yeah, dope show overall, he killed it. He repped in the garden. You know what I'm saying. And just the simple fact that he chose the garden because a lot of his roots are based in New York. When he was living in Queens trying to get his deal Like. So that's dope in itself. The DJ I can't think of his name, but he opened up with a set playing joints from each borough, you know what I'm saying. He was like I know I got people in here from other places, but this is New York tonight, you know what I'm saying. So I mean it was a very New York-centric show and that just shows the love that Cole has for New York and shaping his career and I thought it was really dope.

Speaker 2: 1:05:34

It's dope man Sean what you think Likes please, likes please is my joint. I've always loved Likes please and he performed it. The fact that people were in the audience actually reciting lights please, bar for bar, didn't feel alone To me. That's more than Jay, I think. In my personal Jay Cole that's like his top three for me personally.

Speaker 1: 1:05:57

It's pretty high. Oh, you think it's top three too.

Speaker 2: 1:05:59

Yeah, I agree. Just the story behind lights, please. Just the way he constructed.

Speaker 1: 1:06:05

Lights, please. I think it's top ten. I think it's top ten for me too. So I put it in my ten.

Speaker 2: 1:06:10

The simplicity of it to me, is genius. It's conversation, j Cole.

Speaker 1: 1:06:17

Yeah, I think me and AG share the same favorite J Cole song, which is Middle Child, correct? Yes, yes, lights please. Probably the same favorite j cole shong, which is middle child, correct? Yes, yes, I'm a light. Lights please probably be second or third for me, okay, okay. So I guess maybe I like lights please a little less, because I do feel like it. Middle child does some of the same things. That's fair, I think. What lights please? Uh, what sean is saying about lights please, because it toes the line, what he's what he's talking about is conversational is telling the and it's a hit record. To do that and make it a hit record is a hard feat. You know what I mean. So that's why I enjoy the record so much.

Speaker 2: 1:06:54

The beat doesn't stand out to you, but it gets the job done. It's catchy, it's catchy, it's catchy To me. That's his signature song for me. That's what caught my attention on J Cole. But overall I'm glad that he was able to go to the garden and perform and actually get his core audience. You looked at the diversity amongst his audience. That was a beautiful thing, because J Cole, he toes that line and I know people always ask like, how is he selling? How is he selling records? You know the way, you know his style and the way he does and how is he getting this done? Look at the audience. The audience tells you everything. That diverse audience that he had out there.

Speaker 2: 1:07:38

Everyone's like reciting his rhymes and people like really vibing out to his rhymes and he doesn't. Somebody posted rhymes and people like really vibing out to his rhymes and he doesn't. Somebody posted that this is a boring concert but it gets. It gets the job done and I understood the dichotomy to that because he doesn't have a lot of stadium music. He doesn't have a lot of stadium uh beats. He doesn't have like that, that arena, that arena, stuff, right, he doesn't have anything that's going to get you jumping out the seat and like yo, this is like is like you know, this is exhausting, but it feels good. Right, he doesn't have one of those. Everything that he was putting out was potent. He doesn't have a lot of the stadium or arena flow. Everything is still potent. And that shows you how, how great, honestly, j Cole really is to still move the crowd with the tone of music that he has. Yeah, it's a very hard feat. Not many can do that. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:08:27

True, true MC. Because if you look at it, the stage set didn't change. It didn't have a lot of power techniques or crazy stuff to add to it to throw you off. He was by himself on stage because the band was off to the side that was playing. So to be an MC to move the crowd and control it, you're a single MC on stage. You're not animated, not a bunch of power techniques and stuff, the stage backdrop is not changing and you to still captivate the crowd like that is a big feat and it's the garden.

Speaker 1: 1:08:59

Why do I always have to be the one to go humbug? So this show was good, j Cole is great, but it's, it's still. It just still left me wanting something like first of all, this is something that I noticed. So when you're talking about like uh, when you're talking about everybody singing the words word for word, sean, well, it wasn't like that. For all of the records like that, there were a lot of casual like. I gauged the crowd interaction and engagement as best as I could from a live stream and it did appear to me that somebody who's been to countless concerts and so have you, two guys that some of the crowd engagement for some of that core stuff you're talking about wasn't all the way there. That's what I was catching. Now, when Power Trip is coming on, everybody's singing the shit word for word. So when something like that happens, I'm like we got a lot of casuals in the building tonight.

Speaker 2: 1:09:55

You feel me yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:09:56

And I could tell you why that is Coop, because my main critique on the show after he finished the album and did those hits and mixtape joints in between, the concert was done. He didn't do anything past the uh, 2014 forest hills drive era, so a lot of that those people that was tapped in was day ones and the casuals might be more so, like kod going into like that when jay cole was jay cole. You know what I mean. People who popped up after the blow up, which is right, rob is the blow up. Yes, he did not perform anything after forest hills drive era, so that's why that was because I thought the same thing, like yo, he really ended it off here. Yeah, I just, I just noticed that it seemed like some of the crowd didn't, and this might be some of the nas effect, because the only time I've been to Madison Square Garden was for a Nas show, but it just seemed like damn niggas knew every word of every song. It's true too, but Nas, you know that's a different level.

Speaker 1: 1:10:55

It's Nas in the garden and so like I understand that. But that would bring me to my second critique, which would be and I'm going to keep on saying this critique, which would be, and I'm going to keep on saying this I want to thank Hip Boy for giving Nas some stadium flow. That Garden Show is not the same without them.

Speaker 2: 1:11:10

Hip Boy records. I don't care what nobody says.

Speaker 1: 1:11:12

That's fair. His different. Shit is not the same without 30 ringing out in the building. Shit is not the same without Reminisce ringing out and Mary coming out looking like Mary from Real Love. It is not the same. And so I did find myself listening to these records like yep love most of these records. Yes, I do think this is his best album. There's not enough stadium flow still, yeah, but look at it like this. Like I said before, he might have had more stadium flow, but everything he performed was music he had before.

Speaker 1: 1:11:41

He had dreads Like if you want to look, want to look like you know what I'm saying it's fair, he wasn't dreaded in this era, so look out, but he's the one that chose. I mean not he. I mean it's smart to commemorate this moment. It is his biggest moment. It is 10 years removed from it. It is intelligent to commemorate it and this is what I mean. It's like oh, I'm nitpicking just because overall like a great show. Just, you know a couple of things here and there that I've seen. The casuals were something that I've seen the stadium flow, and that was really the extent of my critique. Other than that, I thoroughly enjoyed the show.

Speaker 2: 1:12:18

Yeah, I'm happy you enjoyed the show.

Speaker 1: 1:12:19

No, but I also like the record to that show don't mean shit to me. But no, that should be a normalized thing, like for real, like classic albums, playing the album from front to back, like you know. Artists should really normalize that, like Nas did it with Illmatic Raekwon and Gilston did it with Cuban Link Cole's doing it with Forest Hills Drive. Like y'all MCs, like get out there and perform some of your you know your best joints from front to back. Well, it's just an intelligent business move, because whatever album made you a star, that's also probably what's going to generate you the most revenue when you go on tour. So it is just an intelligent business decision. The scenes information from Taj about Nas' strategic rationale for how he moves with stuff when he tours. You know what I'm saying? That's what I mean. It's like, oh, it's cool that you did it. The strategic rationale for this would be well, this is part of the rollout for the fallout.

Speaker 1: 1:13:20

It's by reminding people of your greatest piece of work. He gave people a hint, like when he walked off stage the last Dreamville Fest is in April. And then he said like yo see y'all in April at Dreamville. Hopefully I'll have some new music to perform for y'all.

Speaker 1: 1:13:38

So maybe he's going to drop first quarter. Man, that shit ain't funny or cute. He still ain't made album of the year in a year yet. So like, do that shit ain't funny or cute. He still ain't made album of the year in a year yet. So like, do that shit. I say, look for him. First quarter next year, 2025. Oh, we just got done looking for him all this year, this was the year to do it.

Speaker 2: 1:13:54

This was the year to do it. This was the year.

Speaker 1: 1:13:56

Like this was the year. This was one of those that might be a little bit marred by his apology, though. If you want to step outside that, yeah, I'm just saying Drop the album.

Speaker 2: 1:14:06

Drop the album.

Speaker 1: 1:14:07

Look here, man.

Speaker 2: 1:14:07

Look here, shut everybody up.

Speaker 1: 1:14:09

Shut Coop up. I'm tired of telling people this. They're like, oh, no, no, no, r Kelly was in trouble, didn't step in the name. It's like, oh, he's not a pedophile. They're like, yes, but damn, this is banging. Yeah, this is crazy. Listen, we're going to move away from that. But what Eve said on this show, on the inevitable show, he's like when you got something, you can hold on to it and make tweaks and changes to really craft a classic. They've been working on the fallout for a handful of years at this point. So I mean, little stuff's come out here and there, but the fact that he has been working on it for years makes it worse. Why, why do you say so? It took Nas four years to make Illmatic. Pretty much that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 1:14:56

Not four, but three.

Speaker 1: 1:14:58

The only time that you have time to take your time is when you were telling the story for the first time. After that, you were on the motherfucking clock.

Speaker 2: 1:15:09

So I do not want to Every rap album.

Speaker 1: 1:15:11

Think about this Name, one rap album that we've heard from a legendary MC or producer that took years to make. That was a classic when it came out. Name when it happened For me Wu-Tang Forever. They did not spend years working on that project yeah, they did Not years Not years AG 93 to 97?

Speaker 1: 1:15:36

I don't believe when they first started recording that joint it was probably. The recording process took over a year. I'll give them a year, but them sounds are fresh. There is nothing about them sounds on Wu-Tang Forever. That says 93. And what about Life After Death? Like how long did Big take to record that?

Speaker 2: 1:15:53

About two years.

Speaker 1: 1:15:55

No, you get a couple of years, but that makes sense because of the breadth of it. They're both double albums, so you know that still gives you a point. You know how about this? This is what I'm saying because I don't know how long he's been working on the fall off. If this is exceeding year number two, we have a problem. If it's what exceeding year number two of working on one project, we have a problem from how, the way it's been taught, the way they talked on the podcast, they've been working on it for a couple years or more. You know, I'm saying just carefully, crafting it like this is not gonna make it. This is gonna make it. This is not gonna make it. This is gonna make it like ag.

Speaker 2: 1:16:30

Back in the day that was the norm. The norm was it wasn't common to drop an album once a year. Right, right. The elite artists were dropping albums every two to three years oh yeah, jay.

Speaker 1: 1:16:41

jay started that trend and, like said Busta, was like every year. You know, jay started that High-foddy projects every year.

Speaker 2: 1:16:47

Right and it was like a carryover. They had the lead single that was a radio single, and the back half of that first album had another lead single and it carried to the second album. So it was a good formula that they used at that time, but it was normally two to three years before you had an elite artist to drop an album.

Speaker 1: 1:17:07

Like OK, so this is what I mean. Think about. Think about it like this Well, I know Dr Dre Worked on 2001 pretty much from the moment that he started Aftermath until it came out. But when you listen to those records and I know because I've talked to Glove it appears that the only record that made it that was more than two years old was Forgot About Dre. So what I'm saying is that the more time goes by, hip-hop changes. It is rare that these records get kept.

Speaker 2: 1:17:48

It's like dog years man.

Speaker 1: 1:17:50

No, you're right. You fall in love with something and then it sounds dated to you when you're about to put the album out, and then it don't even make it. But that's kind of my point, coop. I think we don't get a mic delete later. If he's not working on this over the course of some years, might delete later might be something that's like we ain't putting this on the fall off, but we made this during this time, so we gotta form another project. I think that's how stuff like that come about. Yeah, he ain't got no alibi, and neither does the next person we're about to talk about, which is Jay-Z's accuser.

Speaker 2: 1:18:26

Let's get these all super chat back, the four or three super chats.

Speaker 1: 1:18:30

Yeah. That's why $2 super chat. No anniversary talk for Godson Stillmatic and Hip Hop is dead Stay tuned, we're going to get to that.

Speaker 2: 1:18:40

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 1: 1:18:42

We know better than that on it's us. Give us more credit than that. Yo mj with the ten dollar super chat, appreciate you. If jay cole was independent, he would be currency. Wow, if gibbs was signed to rock nation, he would be the best rapper of this generation. Cole catalog equals overrated, and you know what that's. That's. That's a wild take to say he would be currency, though.

Speaker 1: 1:19:07

Esquire with the $2 super chat that's just disrespectful Esquire with the $2 super chat. Just curious what was the best album in 2013? That was a good kid. Good Kid is December 2012,. Isn't it November, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:19:32

I keep thinking it's 13.

Speaker 1: 1:19:34

No, it's 12. It's 12. It's like December-ish. Did we miss Good Kid Mad City anniversary, or is it coming? I have to go back and look. It wasn't this week.

Speaker 2: 1:19:45

No, lb got it. Lb will get it to us.

Speaker 1: 1:19:50

Okay, shout out to LB, we got any more Super Chat. Fellas, are we sliding?

Speaker 2: 1:19:55

That was it. That was it.

Speaker 1: 1:19:57

So you know, we talked last week, guys, about what these potential allegations and ramifications could mean for Jay, and now his accuser and I think this is attorney driven pressure, which is part of what I was talking about, poking holes in stories early is is that she doesn't even really recall exactly where she was, who she was with, dad, can't recall picking her up. Guys, is this stage?

Speaker 2: 1:20:26

I don't know, man, because now new reports are coming out. It's not looking good. Yes, new reports are coming out. It's not looking good. Yes, new reports are coming out now saying that they're going to sue Roc Nation for going after some witnesses or just some other stuff. I'm trying to pull it up right now, but there are some new reports coming out that they're about to be sued. Are they going after a lawsuit against Rocten Nation for, I guess, going after witnesses?

Speaker 1: 1:20:55

Witness tampering. Is that what we're talking about?

Speaker 2: 1:20:58

Here's the thing.

Speaker 1: 1:21:02

We don't know the truth. You know we don't know, we weren't there right. So we don't know the truth. But all that matters is is can this be proven in a court of law? And right now is the evidence is stacking up? I don't. It doesn't look like this could be proven.

Speaker 1: 1:21:19

You know what I'm saying. Like jay said in day of presidents, one alibis ain't matching up bull catching up. You know what I mean and that's how it's like. That's how it's looking is, uh, her dad can't corroborate the story. Um, you know, and uh, it's a five-hour trip from like, where she lived, to even get to the uh music award. So it wasn't like a just like you know, a short drive kind of thing. And um, she doesn't recall certain events. And then then people that she said she interacted with I think it was Bleak 182 was one of the bands. They weren't even there, they were on tour. So a lot of people can't corroborate this story. So it's not looking really good for the accuser, but their team is using certain trigger words like you know what I'm saying with her health, her mental state, and throwing that out there. So it's it's. It's going to turn nasty. I hate to say it, but yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:22:22

Yeah, I don't got too much more to add about that, but I just want to continue to highlight to our Black men and women who are in a position of power and authority they will try to take everything from you if you let them. You have to be beyond and above reproach with all things. I think the most striking thing that really happened this week that let me know that this is sincerely something that's being pursued by the powers that be is that Jay's attorneys separated him and Diddy. This week it literally came out and made statements saying oh no, that guy, not Jay friend. Him and Jay are more like. You know that that is just an industry thing. That is not a real friendship. I like man. They took all that baby oil and they slid right across the room with the baby oil like slide. I don't think that did Jay any favors, though I don't like that they did it. I didn't say it was a wise move, but it is a move that they chose to make.

Speaker 1: 1:23:17

Because, everybody with eyes can see that that's not true. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely not true, but that's what I'm saying. The occurrence of that happening is what lets me know. Oh no, this is really going to take shape, because attorneys don't do separation from somebody that's a not even your co-defendant this early, unless it's about to come to fruition and some sort of saying not saying it's the truth. When I say come to fruition, I mean, oh no, somebody is trying to take him down and is about to try to see it through. So we need to get prepared for what's about to come, because I feel like it's about to be on. Get prepared for what's about to come because I feel like it's about to be on.

Speaker 1: 1:23:49

Well, I don't think that it's out of the blue, though, because I think that it didn't do Jay any favors, but it's almost like a necessary thing that had to be done, because Diddy was named in the act too. You know what I mean. Right, right, how about this? I'm looking at it kind of like no, did he get close to the oj jay, and closer to bill cosby? But they got bill cosby ass too, yeah, but then. But then, even saying that from a defensive team, I'm not saying jay did anything, but don't insult people's intelligence and logic, and saying they're not friends, because you don't have to be friends with somebody that sexually assaults somebody together. That's, but that's, but that's the beat. But these are the games we play. I actually this. This is funny and this is totally by circumstance.

Speaker 1: 1:24:31

I happened to talk to one of Bill Cosby's attorneys right before they went for the first deposition. It was just totally by circumstance and happenstance, and I remember asking her one question. I was like do you believe that he did this? And she just looked back at me and she said now you know how they do us here. And she walked away because she couldn't tell me any more than that. And so you know, just be prepared, like all of us in this community need to be prepared and we need to remind ourselves within this hip hop community. It is in a seat until proven guilty, because there ain't 10,000 bottles of baby oil and tapes and pornography and freaking extortion going on with this one. This is just a straight up and down. We're coming to get you there. Well, public opinion is too loud. So, unfortunately, coop, I know you say it's supposed to be like that, but now it's guilty until proven innocent.

Speaker 1: 1:25:21

You know, because because of social media yeah yeah, and like we always do here at hip-hop talks, we need to push the boundary and push the butt the other way and remind people that this is an innocent till proven guilty nation. It's supposedly what makes it one of the greatest nations in the world, if not the greatest nation. I beg to differ. So any final thoughts before we slide.

Speaker 2: 1:25:44

It's nasty stuff, man. Regardless Of course, the lawyer job is to try to separate the two entities, and the two entities are Jay and Puff. We don't know their relationship, nor do I care about their relationship. What his lawyer is saying is that, yo, they're not as close as you guys may think, but there are times when I had to be like yo because you saw me with homie. That doesn't mean that I do what you do, right, because I got that, I grew up with that, do other things that I don't do. So there are times when I have to be like yo.

Speaker 2: 1:26:17

When I go back home to see the people I made I go over there, I may send you a text. Y'all I mean tom, hope y'all doing well. I don't want to be close over there because I want to make sure that you understand, just because you saw me and this guy in a couple of pics and we might have grew up in the same neighborhood or the same, you know, same situation. We we parted ways at the sea, at the Red Sea, and I think that's what Drake James lawyer is probably just saying.

Speaker 2: 1:26:43

He's going to say to himself the lawyer is saying like look, they're not close. They're not as close as you may think, and here's why that's all they can do. If that's the case, you might as well incriminate everybody that you see in pitches with Puff.

Speaker 1: 1:26:58

You kind of did that to us when we got back from North Carolina. In the discord you was disowning me and Coop. You was like I don't really know those guys like that. You put the blinky out. I got to make sure my hands are clean Now. In fairness, ag, in fairness to Sean, he was disowning us long before we met in person. Long before we met in person he was disowning us Disregardless, just devil's advocate over here. Oh, that's great.

Speaker 2: 1:27:26

It's all love, though.

Speaker 1: 1:27:29

But hey, just one final thought with all of this, and this is what I mean, like, watch out, this is being handled by jay's team in opposition to how diddy's team has handled things, because they do have some sort of template to go off of, because, because puff feet getting thrown in the fire first and and and notice this, oh, jay hasn't said a word, and that's exactly how I should say it. The first thing that I had a problem with Puff doing is when Puff started releasing statements. I'm like what are you releasing statements for?

Speaker 2: 1:27:57

You were supposed to be quiet right now he's talked.

Speaker 1: 1:27:59

He released his statement. He released two statements, but not on camera. He released them, like you know what I'm saying about when the accusations initially came out and then when the stuff went down, oh no, I read those statements. Okay, this is what I mean about ego and power. It's like, oh no, I read Jay's statements, it's like those are the attorneys. That is my Jay. I read Puff's statement. I was like, oh, puff had them write that statement. I was like that's stupid. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Like Puff, ego is in a place that Jay's ego isn't, because Jay was really outside.

Speaker 2: 1:28:29

Because he's trying to get in front of social media, because social media, the social media courtroom, is ridiculous, because everyone has an opinion and their opinion is loud. Everyone is saying, yeah, I knew he has to do with it. And these are all people who just want to be a part of something that they're not part of. So sometimes these people, sometimes these artists and others feel the need to get in front of the social media court, as opposed to what the actual judge is going to say or what the judge is going to do, and it's one of those things, fellas. I just feel that the same way, people going at Jay, you can go at a thousand more artists and business people who've been around Puff Might as well, put all of them under that same umbrella, including our favorite who's been in pictures with Puff and all of these things. You got to be careful how you incriminate or go after somebody when other people are around.

Speaker 1: 1:29:23

those guys you got to be careful about that, yeah, you can't really hang your hat on guilty by association, because it's a lot of situations where you might not be guilty at all, just because of you know who you're around.

Speaker 2: 1:29:35

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:29:40

I think, I think there's. I mean, we're all in the holding pattern about this. Let's just you know wait to see what happens next, you know this goes on.

Speaker 2: 1:29:48

This is what goes on.

Speaker 1: 1:29:50

Look here let's stay positive and text negative. Next, topic. Yeah, let's slide west, fellas. The Chronic actually is celebrating the anniversary in December, december 15th 1992. Y'all ready for a little Dre and Snoop talk? This is some of my favorite stuff. I love me some Dre and Snoop talk, let's get my favorite stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:30:10

I love me some great Snoop talk. Let's get it, let's get it top five album of all time that okay, ag.

Speaker 1: 1:30:17

Well, you took my question for me. Is this a top five rap album of all time? There you go, jump in. I I think it is. Um, this was the first album I actually bought with my own money as a youngin' and you know what I'm saying, brought it to elementary school man. It was a prized possession, man, classic album, love it. I always associate this album with 93. You know what I mean, because it was released in late 92, but it ran all of 93. Ran the whole year of 93. And you know well it seemed like it was a continuation. Because of doggy style drop it, it seemed like death row was just just took 93 by storm. But, um, but yeah, man, I mean I could talk about this album all day, but love this album. For me it's a top five album of all time. And um, yeah, dre was in his bag like reinvent, reinventing himself after the NWA fallout, you know what I mean. Second chance and he knocked it out of the park.

Speaker 2: 1:31:17

I'm going to have to push back AG. I think the Chronic ran its course in 92. There was some carryover going in early 93, but when Doggystyle came out, I think Doggystyle actually took the baton from the Chronic and ran 93 going into 94. Because in 93, when Doggystyle released, it was everywhere. Man, what's my Name was everywhere. Mtv was pumping my name like crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:31:41

It was a karaoke, but they're my four and five favorite albums of all time.

Speaker 2: 1:31:46

Like I got Doggystyle 4 and Chronic 5 for me all the time I can rock with that, I want to have the Chronic number 5. For me personally, it was just. I always felt that aesthetically and musically, doggystyle was maybe two to three levels ahead of Chronic Two to three. Two to three.

Speaker 1: 1:32:09

They two sides of the same coin.

Speaker 2: 1:32:11

I can't go that damn far, you are absolutely correct, but I'm talking about 13-year-old 14-year-old Sean versus 12-year-old 13-year-old Sean. Sean, 12-year-old Sean, cannot handle the Chronic. He cannot no.

Speaker 1: 1:32:29

Thank you, you want no, thank you, you want to know what? Okay, first of all, definitely something going on in the atmosphere the last few months of being agreeing with Sean too much. We're going to have to fix that at the top of 2025. All right, that's the first thing we have to fix for Hip Hop Talks top of 2025. It's been too much. Agreeing is going on. Ag.

Speaker 1: 1:32:54

I'm actually with Sean on this, so I'm going to tell you what I do think. Both of you, uh, do you think the chronic is a top 10 rap album, not a top five rap album? But part of my rationale for it is something that I realized today when I was actually been talking to my mother the last few days while we've been preparing to go home. The chronic wasn't made for our generation, was actually made for the generation before us. Oh, it's not my fault, I was emotionally more mature than y'all. That's not my fault. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not that, not that. No, no, no, not that. I'm not even going to let you pull that card, because you want to know why. And this is what I mean, because and it seems like that, it's not a lot, but that age gap from 11 to 12 to 13 to 14. Oh no, it's big. And we didn't feel the impact of the chronic like we felt doggy style. Yeah, that is. That is not true.

Speaker 1: 1:33:44

I found out about the chronic, you know, my first time listening to the chronic my mom's best friend, tara. We were staying with her on Memorial Drive and Tara bought the Chronic. I found out about the Chronic from my mother. My mama and her best friend played the Chronic. I didn't have a copy of the Chronic. I had to listen to their copy of the Chronic. I had my copy of Doggy Style when it came out. And that's the difference in terms of how we look at the album generationally. Ag, you can sit up there. Ag, you can sit up there and make it seem like every 12-year-old was walking around with the Chronic. No, I just said I bought it with my own money.

Speaker 1: 1:34:19

That's what I said, I believe it. My first purchase was by Baragata, by Bobby Brown. I was eight. I stand corrected. It's not the first album I bought with my own money. It's the first parental advisory album I bought with my own money. To clarify Okay, I say this to say that in 1992, well, my mother was 30. That's who the album was made for. That album was made for that generation.

Speaker 1: 1:34:46

Oh especially with the samples. Yeah, yeah, I was 11 years old, but my mom was 30. That was for her. I think Tara was probably about 26. No, no, no, they were playing the Chronic. Kids our age were playing the Chronic. We were playing there. It is on the east side of Atlanta, you feel what. I'm saying I had to buy it again. I got my joints confiscated at school.

Speaker 2: 1:35:03

I can see that as you should be.

Speaker 1: 1:35:06

But also what I will say is that it's more of a cultural piece than doggy style, because its cultural relevance and significance is what catapulted it for an adult generation that was seeing the Rodney King beatings and the riots and LA lifestyle and knew who NWA was. These are just in our peripherals and AG, not joking. You might have been advanced, but for most of us the Chronic wasn't that, it was Doggystyle, that was that, and so I have the Chronic at about seven, I have the Chronic at about seven or eight, but I have Doggystyle at number four Sometimes five yeah me too.

Speaker 1: 1:35:41

I got Doggystyle at four, then Chronic at five, but Chronic was a springboard that helped Dog board, that had helped Dolly style be out of here, absolutely, absolutely, and I and I totally agree with that. And also too, I think both of you are actually like, like the chronic did dominate 93 all the way into the fall and by the time it had stopped dominating what's my name? My stupid drop. So it was essentially the same run and the only interruption in the run, truthfully, was actually into the Wu-Tang. That was the one that everybody was kind of like, oh, and stop for a second.

Speaker 2: 1:36:19

That was it it was Drake. But not on a commercial level.

Speaker 1: 1:36:23

though Not on a commercial level on a rap level, but Drake and Snoop ran 93 and 94. Guys, it's like I hate to be the one to bring it to people.

Speaker 1: 1:36:33

It's like, like big and naz are not the artist of the year in 94 that's snoop and quite frankly and quite frankly, big didn't become big till 95, not 94, like naz was who he was at the mc in 94. But naz did become naz till 96, it turned out. That's true, right, so. So so when people are talking about, yeah, the, the Chronic came out, and this is what I mean about the Interscope machine, they started this fourth quarter shit with the Chronic and Doggy style back-to-back years because they realized, oh no, we can do numbers to end the year and then go dominate next year. It is a genius move. This is where the fourth quarter comes from. There was never no fourth quarter talk before the Chronic and Doggy Style dropped it back-to-back in December. Guys, that's the real classic part about it. Nobody remembers this is the creation of the fourth quarter. That's a very good point.

Speaker 1: 1:37:18

They're moving.

Speaker 2: 1:37:21

I'm trying to move numbers like Snoop, oops, big set. You got to acknowledge that. You got Snoop in New York with the blue flag on, with the baseball bat saying you've got no love for West Coast. They weren't West Coast. The West Coast was on top at that time because, don't forget, ice Cube was still dropping some bangers at that time. Ice Cube was still on fire Ice Cube was on fire at that time.

Speaker 1: 1:37:47

Ice Cube was actually the best rapper on the planet. When Dre dropped the chronic Thank you, he was on fire at that time. Ice Cube was actually the best rapper on the planet.

Speaker 1: 1:37:52

When Dre dropped the chronic Thank you, he was my favorite rapper Ice Cube's the best rapper on the planet in 1990, 91, and 92. But you gotta show respect to Dre from leaving the group situation, going to death row and surrounding himself with a bunch of MCs that would. You know what I'm saying. A perfect example of that. Stranded on Death Row, that's a posse cut that's not talked about enough. You know what I'm saying. Everybody's going off on that record. You know what I mean. And Dre, he's a producer. Yes, he's the star of the show, he's the rapper. I mean, he acts as a rapper on his album, but it is really a compilation album and he's surrounding himself with all the talent to win a championship, like after he came out of the like best group, one of the best groups of all time. So what Dre did in that transition period was flawless. That can't be spoke about enough.

Speaker 2: 1:38:44

Man listen, dre Davis.

Speaker 1: 1:38:48

I still think Ice Cube's degree of difficulty was harder, but I do agree with what you're saying. Yes, as an MC versus a producer, yes, I agree with that. But Dre also he left when they were the biggest thing in the world.

Speaker 2: 1:39:00

Yes, listen, dre made Dre Day. They had a video for Dre Day. Dre Day was all over MTV Every single day, every hour on the cloud. Dre Day was playing and you had no choice but to love it. And then he follows it up with Let Me Ride, and Dad started playing every hour on the hour on MTV. It was crazy. And then after that you run right into what's my name. You can't compete with that, no matter what origin, what region you're in, no matter what and people are forgetting this.

Speaker 1: 1:39:40

These singles weren't playing for like 30-60 days. It's like these singles lasted like six months but, there's one main point that we're missing, though, that we're going to get to when we talk about this new album. For sure, dre reinvented himself Because the G-Funk Wasn't a thing Until the Chronic started the G-Funk era. He's coming from the NWA sound, and he made a whole new sound that he ushered in during this time.

Speaker 2: 1:40:10

It wasn't new AG, it was more, he revitalized it. Because you're talking about Parliament, funk, right.

Speaker 1: 1:40:16

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:40:17

You're talking about. You're going to get Boosie. You're going to get the father of funk right. You're going to get George Clinton right.

Speaker 1: 1:40:25

Growing up there was a lot of Boosie Collins being played in my house by my uncle man. It was a lot Growing up. There was a lot of Boosie Collins being played in my house by my uncle man.

Speaker 2: 1:40:30

It was a lot my nickname was Boosie.

Speaker 1: 1:40:35

So this goes back to the Glove interview and I'm like you know, where did all that come from? And he's like oh no, he's like we riding around LA playing that, roger Troutman playing that, yeah, glove is literally telling me. He's like I was there with Dre when we came up with these ideas. It's like yeah, it was different.

Speaker 1: 1:40:57

Yeah, well, I mean people forget the LA scene in 1992 and 91. The LA scene that you see now. That was not the LA scene in 91, 92. No, these dudes are still wearing jerry curls and gangbanging in their free time. That's different.

Speaker 2: 1:41:17

I see, kenny Mack, you're right. Above the law they start to G-funk. But what I'm saying was Hold on.

Speaker 1: 1:41:24

Stop for a second Above the law. I was executive produced by who.

Speaker 2: 1:41:38

Dr Trey, right and Trey second. Above the laws. Ex-executive, above the laws. First, I was executive, produced by who? Dr trey and right and dre. He revitalized it. He brought it to a mainstream space where it made you be like yo, I heard this somewhere. I heard it somewhere, but I don't know where I heard it from.

Speaker 1: 1:41:46

He revitalized I mean to be honest with you. I mean Dre is really the first producer to take the samples that we don't know and make them funky. Yeah, that's what made me connect as a kid, like so early, because I heard those samples in my household growing up. My Aunt Sonja, god rest her soul. She was a big Funkadelic and Bootsy Collins fan and so like when me and Cuz is listening to the Chronic we're like oh, these are your mama's records.

Speaker 2: 1:42:16

He flipped them. He did the West Coast version of what RZA did. On the East Coast version, RZA took a lot of East-based samples and he made classics out of them in a dungeon type feel where Dre took the G-Funk and he glossed it up. He made the sound so pristine and he made it feel you can't take that away from him and he mastered it on doggy style. He mastered it. He was like oh shit, I got that Now it's over.

Speaker 1: 1:42:51

You want to know what it was. So the way the Aftermath machine runs is actually it runs the way Doggystyle got made Like. Doggystyle is actually Dr Dre's template for how he wants to executive produce All the other. All the Dre albums that he's put his hands on have run like doggy style, since not to the same effect, but you can see it in how he approaches it. You can see it in how he positions everything Like a band conductor you know, yes, like a band leader, yeah, but that starts with doggy style.

Speaker 1: 1:43:29

It's like, oh, no, no, no, dad's doing all those drums. Yeah, oh, such and such as playing. But it was like when I was asking glove about, I'm like, so you know, cause you know, a couple of the people that had played, you know, had complained. One of them was dad's cousin and man glove was just like yo, you're like man, that record don't sound the same and Dre don't come in and put it together, that's just it. At the end of the day, who put the record together? Yeah, who put the record together and made it sound that way? Because even when I can hear Daz beats on All Eyes On Me, you're like oh no, no, no, you learned from Dre.

Speaker 1: 1:44:06

I can hear it in the beats on All Eyes On Me. You can hear it on Ambitions as a Rider. Those beat drops, that's Dre shit. I mean, even though Daz made the beat. You know what I'm saying. So you can see how Doggy Style is actually the start of the factory. The Chronic is the foundation and it's a beautiful moment. Not as beautiful as this album that just dropped Missionary. First Week Sales $37,000, which brings me back to the point that I was actually making 36. 36, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:44:31

I thought it was 37.

Speaker 1: 1:44:34

That's a lot of mainstream promo.

Speaker 2: 1:44:35

The update had it at 36. It was projecting at 37 and then the update came out earlier today and said 36.

Speaker 1: 1:44:43

Yeah, yeah, before we do that we got a couple of things. You said, we got super chats. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:44:53

And LP. I think we already got this LP asks can y'all speak on Jay and Puff friendship or lack? We got that for you. Lp 88 Spence.

Speaker 1: 1:45:03

Peace. Rip to legendary Philly Radio Club and DJ Gary O oh man, 40-plus years in the game, yeah, rest in peace to Gary O. Peace to legend.

Speaker 2: 1:45:12

Gary O, what up CJ?

Speaker 1: 1:45:17

the Kid with another $20. Super Chad, appreciate you, cooper. I remember you said the Chronic has the greatest introduction of a collection of artists ever, but did that collection have a better introduction than the collection of artists on 36 Chambers? That's a very good question, cj. Yes, hard question actually yes, no. But here here's why the answer is yes. I said collection of talent, not collection of MCs, not MCs talent. Think about. Think about what everybody like you got to go behind the scenes Jimmy Iovine, interscope, dr Dre, suge Knight, snoop Dogg, lady of Rage, rbx, nate Dogg, thaz Corrupt. It's not even a conversation. It's not even a conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:46:02

I think it is, though we got to consider what RZA was doing as a producer.

Speaker 1: 1:46:08

We got Divine, like IZA was doing as a producer.

Speaker 2: 1:46:10

We got Divine.

Speaker 1: 1:46:10

Like I said, Jimmy I-Veen Suge Knight, it made legends out of everybody.

Speaker 2: 1:46:17

Steve Rifkin, don't sleep.

Speaker 1: 1:46:22

Hold on, hold on. Nothing against Steve Rifkin. He is not Jimmy I-Veen or Suge Knight in life, in culture, in hip-hop. But, when it comes to Vision, though, I don't know, Kool.

Speaker 2: 1:46:32

The vision was brief.

Speaker 1: 1:46:34

No, the vision was brief. The house that Death Row built is still running. I don't know, kool, we could have a whole other show about this, but just even the way the Wu's deal was structured, that changed everything. I mean it mostly changed things, but it changed things for them. It really didn't benefit anybody else. Dr Dre and Death Row changed the whole landscape of hip-hop music forever.

Speaker 1: 1:46:58

We literally were making jokes about for everything, for groups that wanted to spawn solo artists, it did change. For other people no, no, no. Listen to what I said. I said it is the greatest collection of talent for one album, and it's true. No, no, no, no. Listen to what I said. I said it is the greatest collection of talent for one album, and it's true. Talent, because talent goes to everywhere. That's why I'm saying Right.

Speaker 1: 1:47:19

That's why I'm saying. That's why I'm like no, jimmy, I Mean Suge Dre, nate Dogg, think about this, like Nate Dogg. Not to be funny, guys, nate Dogg's more important in the history of hip-hop than half of the rappers who rap in Wu-Tang Clan. It's just the way that it is. And Nate Dogg might not even be a top five star on this album. So like, yeah, it's really not that much of a conversation. Like RZA is the only thing that even makes it a conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:47:43

I'm not mad at you saying it's a chronic, but I think it's closer than what you're giving it credit for. I mean, it might be, but I'm just looking at you, god and Inspector, deck and Master Killer, and like I love those guys. But I'm looking at their careers. It's like no, no, no, the Dogtown had a better career than all you guys solo and together, unless I get into Daz's production discography that's what I'm saying, like in a lot ofang, except for the top guys, I mean, but Like they weren't top guys at death row, but RBX, they had a better career than nobody in the Wu. Like I hate to do that. Oh, I mean hey, hey, you can't win them all, but how about this? Hold on, hold on. Let's say this Dre cancels. Let's say Dre and RZA cancel each other out. Let's say Dre and RZA canceled each other out.

Speaker 1: 1:48:30

Let's say Snoop and Meth canceled each other out.

Speaker 2: 1:48:32

You want to keep going Because you don't want to keep going after that.

Speaker 1: 1:48:35

Right, that's what I'm saying, but, all right, what do we think about missionary? I mean, how about this guys? When I saw the album sales, I was like, and I think this is so funny, I'm about to make a joke. Okay, so my mama may have been listening to the chronic when she was 30 years old on memorial drive, but my mother in her 60s now, my mother is actually a missionary who, like, has been to haiti and do relief funds and, like, goes and does empowerment conferences in africa.

Speaker 1: 1:49:02

Part of why this album isn't selling and part of why I didn't want them to make this album is because, quite frankly, the people that bought doggy style in the chronic guys, they're not in their 40s, they're in their late 50s and 60s. They don't listen to rap like that anymore. Your fan base has literally moved on and that's why I didn't want them to do this. It is better off to remember you guys as you were I would have. We were better off remembering you as you were I would have. This album would be so much more enjoyable if it wasn't Snoop and Dre and if they just would have popped up with it if it was Snoop and Dre, all this promo and preparation for it and all that to get just a solid product out of them. Solid is not good enough for them. A four is not good enough for them In a lot of ways. A four and a half is not good enough for them. These guys have gotten together for three projects. Guys, all the projects are fives. Anything less than a five is below the bar that they set and this is why I didn't want to see it, because I knew that they weren't going to sell, because people who used to listen to your stuff 30 years ago, like my mother, have totally different lives, lifestyle, lifestyle choices. That's happened. The album's just good though. The album's good. Snoop sounds great. Yes, he sounds stellar. Yes, snoop sounds stellar. He sounds as good as he's sounded since the Blue Carpet treatment. But it's just, it's not there. They're fighting like sean.

Speaker 1: 1:50:31

Think about the songs that you listed. Think about listening. You listed the singles to the chronic and doggy style. It like no, no, leave that right there, because you don't stand a chance, and this album is proof positive they don't stand a chance. Even coming anywhere in the stratosphere is replicating that stuff. There is no dre day. There is no let me ride. There's no g thing. What's my name? Gin and juice. Ain't no fun doggy dog world. Y'all had it. Let people remember that you've had it. So I don't love this. I just like it. It's just good, it's enjoy everything you just said.

Speaker 1: 1:51:05

That was their first mistake, naming it, you know, missionary as a direct sequel to doggy style, because they're setting themselves up for this kind of talk. If this was named something else then I think people would be a little bit um more lenient with how they grade this. But you know that's fair. If you want to name it a sequel, then it has to be somewhat comparable um, and we'll get more to the uh into that in a little bit. But I like what you said, that Snoop sounds good. I think Snoop sounds sharp on here, very much in pocket.

Speaker 1: 1:51:35

Snoop was always one of our you know what I'm saying best MCs. As far as the flow is concerned, I love everything he's doing. To me it's Dre that doesn't sound inspired on here. He tried to make like a vibey-type record instead of keeping it like real west coast centric. And here's the thing too. This is what obsessed me with dre and why I'm have a hard time struggling with this album. If dre is really the go producer of all time me personally, I have him third um then he should be more inspired than what he is in recent years because we had the casa blanca joint, um, you know, I'm saying earlier this year where he took he's he's baiting people on nostalgia, right, you know what I'm saying. Like he used a lot of the illmatic classics for that record and then you get over here he's using a lot of these samples to try to rope in middle America. You got Pink Floyd, you know, breaking the wall like sample on Hard Knocks, which I love.

Speaker 1: 1:52:35

That record, hard Knocks, is probably one of my favorite joints. He got Tom Petty with you know Last Dance with Mary Jane and then he got another part of me with Sting and these is like one to one. These ain't even like really flips. These is like one to one. These ain't even like really flips. These is like one to one cut and paste songs. That's big and middle America. And then he's trying to grasp that fan base and it didn't work at 36 K on the sales.

Speaker 1: 1:53:00

I just think Drake's uninspired when it comes to making like production. Like we wax poetic earlier, especially Sean, about what he did with his production and took you know what I'm saying funk classics and made it something new. He's taking something that we already love and nostalgia and have nostalgia for and is doing like a one-to-one. You know what I'm saying like cut and paste on here. But Snoop is like killing every beat that he threw at him on this record. But for me personally that's the only gripe I have about. It is Dre don't sound inspired but the features like I love. The Method man joint is my favorite record Skyscrapers.

Speaker 1: 1:53:40

Meth has the best verse on the album. We talk about J Cole's feature run. We talk about Wayne's feature run. Method man has been blazing everything that's been thrown at him the past few years and this collaboration took way too long to happen. Because they came, their comeuppance was at the same time. You know what I'm saying. In 93 on to now, they're two of the best flowing on the mic that we've ever had, and to be 2024 and it'd be the first time they collab is insane to me.

Speaker 2: 1:54:10

But that's my favorite record.

Speaker 1: 1:54:14

I feel like they've been on a record somewhere together before.

Speaker 2: 1:54:17

I don't recall any.

Speaker 1: 1:54:19

I don't recall any. I think this is for sure their first collab. I feel like there's been a compilation or a mixtape somewhere where they're on the same record. If anybody knows that in the chat fact, check me. But I think that that's their first collab. But, um, you know, the m and 50 joint to your point. Coop snoop outwrapped both m and 50 on that joint you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 1:54:40

Snoop in pocket, going crazy on there now. Granted, he's in the wheelhouse of what he normally talks about lyrically. He ain't doing nothing crazy lyrically, but it sounds appeasing aesthetically to the ear. And but Dre, dre is what disappointed me about this man, snoop. Snoop showed up. It's a marriage. They both had a task. Snoop got the assignment To me, dre did that's. That's what I got out of that.

Speaker 1: 1:55:06

So I think what we're, I think what we're finding out in hip hop's 51st year, is that it is easier for an all-time great MC to get back to all-time great levels than it is for the producers to. That's what we're really finding out. We've been finding it out for a while now. We just haven't been paying attention enough like we should. It's like AG, one of the strongest points I think you made this year. You was like yo, why the beats on the Pete Rock Common? Why the beats that's fading out, that you don't rap over better than the beats that they are rapping on? It's like oh no, that is a mistake from a producer. Maybe they'll be on part two. Right, and both you and I both spoke about how we'd like oh, we hope that those are on part two, because those beats are better, defy my Name, by DJ Premier beat wise is underwhelming in relationship to Nas's bars.

Speaker 1: 1:55:54

Dr Dre's production on here is underwhelming in relationship to Snoop's delivery and cadence and flow and mic performance, I mean, and Snoop, and Snoop's voice sounds as good as it sounded a long time. And you want to know what else Snoop, as far as like hitting the end of a bar, like there's a way that you punish a bar at the end by punching and finishing with your words, it is like it is like watching a boxer hit a heavy bag. Oh no, snoop is hitting the heavy bag on every record almost, and I've not heard him do that since blue carpet treatment. And so this is a failure by dre. And I was afraid this is what it was going to be, because failure by Dre means oh, this album is just like a four.

Speaker 1: 1:56:32

You're like oh no, we did not come to Dr Dre for a four. If we were okay with a four, we'd be okay with the firm. But true, but real quick before you go, sean. I'm glad you said that, coop, because the vigor that Snoop is punching with is not like Dre was giving him a whole bunch of crazy beats. I think he was just hyped to be tapped in with Dre for a whole project.

Speaker 2: 1:56:52

Like yo, I'm going to give this my all.

Speaker 1: 1:56:54

He went for his. Yeah, he did. Snoop went for his and Dre didn't. Because it's like, well, not to be funny, the producers financially has always been more better off than the artist and I think it's starting to show in, like their elder years, how it's's like. Oh no, you do not have to starve, like the artist does. You do not have to tour. Like the artist does. You get to sit at home and just make beats, so that fire may not be in you. Snoop is still going on tour. No, I'm still going on tour. These guys still go on tour because that is where the majority of their bread comes from.

Speaker 1: 1:57:24

Still, the producer gets to sit at home and make the beat and make his money, and I think we are starting to see that them not being involved in the process maybe the way they used to be, is hurting some of our all-time great producers. Because I wasn't super impressed with Pete Rock this year, wasn't super impressed with Prem these last couple years. And go ahead and add Dre to the mix. That's three of the top ten right there. Oh, and Kanye, don't get me started on Kanye foe. What about it's been Kanye for a minute? How them beats on Almost Dry sound from Kanye. They sound dry. Yeah, they do. Them beats ain't no good. So you know there's something to be said about these guys that are sitting down collecting these checks for all these fat beats when they're in their prime and then they get a little bit older and they're just fat and the beats are not fat anymore. It's just the person.

Speaker 2: 1:58:13

I don't know. I don't know. I got to push back on what y'all I get, what y'all are saying, but I got to push back a little bit. I think the main reason why we feel this way is because of the name of the album and who it is. Sometimes the names clouds the material, right. Sometimes, you know, the name can be bigger than the output. Because we're living off of nostalgia, we're thinking in our minds like man. We just wax poetic about the chronic and about doggy style, and you have the predecessor of doggy style, which is missionary that they named it missionary. I wonder if they would have named it something else, where we had a different expectation on what we were going to get.

Speaker 2: 1:58:54

Because I listened to this album. The first time I heard this album in the Discord, I was like man, this is bad, this is not good. And then I had to hear it again and I had to hear it a couple more times just to understand. I had to change my listening so I could understand what I was like really taking in. And I'll be honest, fellas, the biggest thing for me is this there's a lot of producer and writers on this album. This is not Dre and Snoop locking in the studio together and having that symbiotic relationship that we saw on the Chronic and on Doggystyle relationship, that we saw on the chronic and on doggy style, the symbiotic relationship that these guys had with that group of people that you just mentioned. Coop off the chronic when you're talking about the element of lady of rage, the element of um of daz, the element of nate dog corrupt, you had different pieces to that puzzle that made chronic and Doggy Style so unique.

Speaker 1: 1:59:49

The.

Speaker 2: 1:59:49

Dumbo. It was different. You replaced that with Sting, you replaced that with Meth, you replaced that with Jelly Roll, you replaced it with Tom Petty. You're talking about a whole different dynamic and a whole different aesthetic to a core of Snoop and Dre. So now the blend, it's not symbiotic anymore. And what Dre is known for is sequencing. Dre is known for putting songs, bleeding songs into another song. Even the skits will bleed into the proper song in the transition. This didn't have that. This album was 58 minutes long, fellas, and it sounded disjointed at best.

Speaker 1: 2:00:34

I don't even think it was mixed. It didn't even sound like Dre mixed it, because usually his mix is different. They released the instrumental version of this and I listened to it and it didn't sound like it was hitting like Dre. Joints had no cohesion, thank you. So both of y'all are speaking to the two things that actually made him king Executive production, which involves the engineering process, the mixing, the master and the song sequencing.

Speaker 1: 2:00:56

This is where he has reigned supreme over his contemporaries. This is where his contemporaries may not be as good as him and he separates himself right there. And, sean, you are 100 percent correct. There is no separation as a matter of fact. It is a step of fact. It is a step down. It is a step down, it is. And here's the reality of the matter.

Speaker 1: 2:01:18

I never forget when glove told me he was like, you know, talking about the chronicle doggy style. He's like no, no, no. He's like if we made a banger. He's like I'm trying to call everybody, the girls, the weed man, the artist who all was there, and they could have used that on this project. It's like no, no, no, no, no. I I like the fact that it is a dre and snoop solo mission.

Speaker 1: 2:01:45

Y'all should have tried to pull off this solo mission in 1995, 96, 97, 98, 99, 2000,. 2001. How many years passed by? That's what I'm saying, dude, because it's like, if y'all aren't going to not to be funny, if y'all not going to do the group thing and call the whole gang up like Dre and Snoop usually do when they get together Cause here's what it is. And Friends, this album is just Dre and Snoop and Samples, and what we're finding is that the samples don't replace the Friends. And you all should have done this project. Y'all should have done the Dre and Snoop project, like it's just going to be me and Snoop that's going around. I don't know. That would have been the appropriate thing to do right after the Chronic 2001.

Speaker 2: 2:02:27

That's because of all the writers in that room, who's ever been writing for Snoop? And again, there's a lot of people. Names of credit to the production, to whatever. Ag and I were talking about this earlier briefly, you got so many names attached to this album so you don't know who did what. You don't know who produced what, you don't know who wrote what, all of these different things, right, and you can tell it doesn't.

Speaker 2: 2:02:56

It doesn't have a Snoop feel in some of the records. Some of the records sound like one of them even sound like it was like a Wiz Khalifa type of flow or Wiz Khalifa type of feel. And you can tell someone else wrote something else for someone else, right, someone else wrote something else for someone else, right. And again, guys, you think about this. Think about on Doggystyle, when you heard the toilet flush and it goes straight into Gin and Juice. That just that small aesthetic, that small attention to detail, was very important for that album. Even having the skits, that small attention to detail floating to the other song. With this you don't have that. It seems like it sounds forced. Even that Eminem 50, dre and Snoop joint, that sounds forced. It didn't sound right. It just didn't sound like it wasn't. It didn't sound like the symbiote suit getting on the Venom suit. It was, it was. It's everything we're afraid of, guys. Suit it was a muck, it was a muck.

Speaker 1: 2:03:53

It's everything we're afraid of, guys, because really what we're talking about, they're just the victims of their own success. They don't have time to sit in the studio with each other, with the homies, for hours on end and make it happen again. That's why I didn't want to hear it. That's why I was like no, no, no, dude, I'm cool with Doggy style in the Chronic, in the Chronic 2001. And whatever bangers you want to put on Snoop's album, I was cool with that. So I just feel like they hurt their legacy some in terms of their batting average. It's like how about this, if Michael Jordan don't play that? Last two seasons with the Wizards, you know his scoring average is like 32 points per game instead of 30.6. And then he's two points clear of everybody all time on average, and so they just kind of regress back a little bit on the average. It's like, oh no, y'all ain't averaging 32 points a game anymore, it's more like 30 now. Yeah, it's the truth. Yeah, I like that analogy too. But here's the thing we got to take some of the onus on us as fans because we got to pick one side of the fence, though I'm glad they ended up coming out with this album. I know you said you was cool without it, but we always complained about Dre holding on to music and I think Snoop really held his feet to the fire on this one and said like yo, I really want to tap in with you on a project and let's put it out.

Speaker 1: 2:05:11

Dre's known for vaulting music because he's a perfectionist and doesn't want the. You know I'm saying the critique if it's not perfect, if it's not good enough. And we could. You know I'm saying, and we criticize dre for that for like gatekeeping all of this music. You know what I'm saying. So I can at least respect that he tapped in with Snoop and then put it out there. Is it up to snuff? No, it's not, but at least he like stepped out there and did it you know what I'm saying Instead of gatekeeping the whole project like he's done so many times throughout the years. We can't have it both ways though we can't be like I'd rather them not drop it. You know something like this at all. And then when we hear Dre's working on a project and then it don't drop, then we like yo, dre Wildin, he need to put that out because he can't keep all his music. We got to pick one side of the fence on that argument, though I'm just trying to keep it above. As far as us fans, I like the perspective some. But let me push back and ask you something, ag, just for the sake of uh, I find this dialogue to be fascinating.

Speaker 1: 2:06:25

Now, I don't know if anybody noticed, the last time Dr Dre made a project was Compton. I want y'all to make me the beats on this project or Compton that you think are Dr Dre level, because truth of the matter is is that when I listened to this album, I was like, oh, this writing might have been on the wall and about who he is. We might not be willing to say it, but the reality of the matter is is that well, these beats on Compton and the beats on Missionary, this ain't the type of shit you ride to on Compton and the beats on missionary, this ain't the type of shit you ride to? And if I'm a pull Kendrick's card about a West coast artist not making something for the West coast homies to ride to like, it sounds West, but it ain't nothing to really ride to like that. And so and this is what I mean it's like no, I'd rather remember you the way that you were, because, really, as an executive producer on your last two projects, these projects are just average, slightly above average at best, from a production standpoint.

Speaker 1: 2:07:12

With Dread at the helm, would you hold Eminem's joint over Missionary With Death of Slim Shades? Yes, I would have to. I would too, but I was just checking in with that. I would have to.

Speaker 2: 2:07:26

Again, fellas, I really think that we're critiquing this based on expectation and not based on reality, because we're we're trying to. Okay, we talk about nas all the time and we talk about jay all the time as well, and we say how nas music grow with nas, where he was able to talk about his legacy in his music and his song Fly, and everyone can't do that right. Snoop couldn't do that off a year, and Snoop's legacy is one for the ages as well, and Dre's legacy is one for the ages as well, but they weren't able to channel that.

Speaker 1: 2:08:02

And I don't think that was the intent.

Speaker 2: 2:08:04

The problem I have with it. I don't know what the intent was. I don't know what the direction is. I think if I'm listening to these songs separately and not in sequence, I can enjoy these songs a different way. I do think that there's songs on here. I love the song Part of Me. I love the song with him and Sting. I love the song with him and Jelly Roll. I love those songs.

Speaker 2: 2:08:24

I think it's vibes on here. There's some vibes on here, but the vibes doesn't fit the nomenclature of what we know, who these guys are and what they are. And again, I know you got to grow with your artists. These guys are 50 plus or what have you, so you can't have a certain expectation. They shouldn't be talking about smoking chronic or smoking weed or whatever, or you know the crazy things that they talked about in 92. They shouldn't be talking about that. But however you've made it, You've made a conscious effort to say this is missionary and nothing rings off remotely close to that, because you said it's the sequel. The doggy style is the first time Dre and I got together in 30 years.

Speaker 1: 2:09:11

I think you got something right there, sean, and I think I may have identified a common ground problem that we can all agree upon. So I'm about to submit a statement to you guys and tell me if you agree. Part of what makes this album so disappointing, on different levels, for all three of us is that, in the history of hip-hop this is what I'm about to say these are two of our 10 most savviest people ever to walk in the building right, and so the fact that they missed the mark makes us think that it might be over, because it's like well, when have they missed the mark? It's like, because there are a lot of things like all the stuff that we're talking about is essentially a nice way of saying these dudes are old, out of touch and off base a little bit, and we say it about other artists all the time. We're just having trouble accepting it because, well, it don't get any savvier on the business side of things in terms of promoting and preparing a project and getting you ready. It doesn't get any better from that side, like we forget. No, no, they're not just great at the music side, they're great at the business and marketing and promotion and getting you excited side and I think them not delivering on that side might be contributing to this failure. What do you say to them? I'll say oh, go ahead, sean. I Wait, wait, wait, please. You know, and this will set up a transition going forward. But I think I'm glad you used that word savvy, and you know what I'm saying. I'm going to use the word clever because, as sequel albums go, you said it missed the mark.

Speaker 1: 2:10:43

The mark is evidently doggy style. If you're going to name something after a previous album and it's going to be the direct sequel, you have to be savvy in your approach to that, because everything is going to be measured by that and that's part of our main disappointment. And it doesn't have to be the same classic, but it has to stand on its own. You talk about all the time like um, you know what I'm saying? Up'm saying updating the formula. They had a formula, but they could have. They didn't have to recreate doggy style. They could have updated the formula, made a sequel album. That's something new and classic in his own right, a la what naz did on stillmatic, because stillmatic is a sequel album to illmatic. But he's clever and savvy enough to let you know.

Speaker 1: 2:11:31

When the first few bars they thought I'd Make another Illmatic. But it's Never forward. I'm moving, I mean, but it's always forward, I'm moving, never Backward stupid. Here's another classic. So I'm smart enough to let you know I can't recreate that back there, but I'm giving you something Else that you can lean on as classic, and is that a sequel album, as sequel albums go? So I think their approach was just wrong and how they did that and they set themselves up for failure. They could have did it in a better way, where we would have judged this album on its own merit versus comparing their previous work and and I think the title has a lot to do with that- Right, and that's why I said I have to separate the two entities, because even a title you think about, even the artwork, is a condom Right.

Speaker 1: 2:12:22

So you're saying I'm taking it, the bottle is dope, though I ain't going to hold you. It's wild but it's dope.

Speaker 2: 2:12:27

You're saying I'm taking it there, but you really take it there musically. And I'm okay with that because, again, 44 year old sean, I don't want to hear about the stuff they were talking about back in 93, 94, 93. I don't want to hear that this time. You know this time and age, I don't care about that. But I want to hear something that can say you know what? That's the Dre song I'm looking for, or that's the Dre and Snoop collaboration. That gives me some kind of nostalgia in a different way, right, yes, not so much as nostalgia in smoking weed and all of this. I'm talking about nostalgia in a way of there is some DNA there. I can see the DNA between the two entities.

Speaker 1: 2:13:10

OK, so Right. So when you talk about updating the formula, let's go, let's, let's just take a couple of records. It's like OK, it's like ain't no fun is something that you can redo with a different song type. You could be taking something like the day the niggas took over, which talks about the LA riots, and, and you could be turning around instead and talking about a George Floyd uh uh and Amir uh rice. Um, what's a Trayvon Martin? You get what I'm saying. They touched on these subject matters before. It just feels like this was. I feel like they tried to come in and have a good time, but the chronic and doggy style are focused and concise, and so I am going to put this on Dre. I am.

Speaker 2: 2:13:55

Yes, it's definitely on Dre Dre's head's in the clouds on this.

Speaker 1: 2:14:00

He's trying to make a sound too big and the irony of this whole thing, the West Coast has such a large resurgence this year that if they would have just kept it in the West Coast wheelhouse everybody would have ran to that. You know what I'm saying. But Dre trying to do this big sound and let's get Sting and do Pink Floyd and all that. They don't want to hear that from Dre and Snoop. I know I don't and not to be funny, this is coming from me. Listen to what I'm about to say. Where the hell is Kendrick Lamar on this album? You're dropping a West Coast album at the end of the year, after all this stuff, and you're not putting Kendrick on a verse. Yeah, that is crazy. Who Kendrick signed to Failure.

Speaker 1: 2:14:40

That's why I'm talking about failure and not being savvy. It's like hold on. To be fair, kendrick was mad at Snoop about the edible stuff. Okay, tell him to shut up and get in the booth. Go ahead and give him 500 grand and say, shut up, give him 500 grand, get in the booth.

Speaker 2: 2:14:58

End of story.

Speaker 1: 2:14:59

End of story. Mr Righteous ain't saying no to 500 grand for 16 bars. He's not that righteous, guys. But I like how we're compartmentalizing because don't get it twisted. Snoop did his thing on this album.

Speaker 1: 2:15:11

One thousand percent. So it's Dr Dre fault, just like it. Pete Rock fault, just like it's about to be DJ Premier fault if he do this Dr Dre thing. Don't do that. Contact, contact, contact. Okay, shout out to Q-Tip. Wow, giving none of these other old dudes no credit. Kanye is old now too. He belongs with the era. We can go to the next topic. And speaking of the next topic, ag and I have a question for you. Now we're doing some little Escobar season anniversaries when y'all want to start, y'all want to start with the worst album, or y'all want to start, y'all want to start with the worst album, or y'all want to start with the best album. Where are we starting? We are starting with the worst album. You know where we are starting Stillmatic, stillmatic, okay, stillmatic. Ag is stillmatic. Wait, you said the worst album. What are you doing?

Speaker 2: 2:16:01

I thought you said we started with the worst album I was asking you.

Speaker 1: 2:16:04

I said we're starting with with the worst album, we start with the best album.

Speaker 2: 2:16:07

We'll go in order of release.

Speaker 1: 2:16:09

We'll go in order of release. You know the classic. So God's Son came out December 13, 2002, if we're going in order. No, stillmatic was 01. God's Son was 02. Ah, that is right, got my years back from getting old. Okay, so Stillmatic Do you think Stillmatic is the sequel to Illmatic? Because I never looked at it that way, but when you said that it made me think it's like ah, it's only Illmatic Part 2 in name to garner attention. There's nothing about it.

Speaker 1: 2:16:39

I've always considered it that. But to your point, like you always say, updating the formula, like I said, he lets you know in the first few bars. Like I'm not trying to recreate that, I'm gonna give you a 2001 version of that which he did. Everything that's present on the original Illmatic is present here on Stillmatic the storytelling, the like you like to say Coop, the timeless themes, like every the bar work, everything is there. The AZ feature he's reaching and pulling back like and Sean, you alluded to this I want to see the dna pause in the record that calls back to, you know, the, the classic of yesteryear, the dna of illmatic is instillmatic but it's still different. You know what I mean. And it's a classic when it can stand on its own right, and it's it's. It's not better, but it's comparable. I could argue with somebody like yo you. Let me take the best nine records off still matic. I'm slap boxing with ill matic, sean. What's up? Queens, get the money go ahead.

Speaker 2: 2:17:43

It's innovative. You got songs like rewind on there. You got one mic on there. You got the intro, the still matic on there. You you got one mic on there. You got the intro, the stillmatic on there. You got so much original music on there. You cannot lose with that. And you update your formula with original music and original stories. You got what goes around on there. Tell them the story.

Speaker 1: 2:18:05

Top five Nas records.

Speaker 2: 2:18:07

Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1: 2:18:09

I don't know if it's top five. For me it is.

Speaker 2: 2:18:12

I might be top three bro.

Speaker 1: 2:18:15

If we're talking about the bar work, then yeah, but I mean, I mean I think it's his best mic performance outside. Of it Was Written or Illmatic as far as the song.

Speaker 2: 2:18:31

It's crazy because we haven't even gotten into you know, we haven't gotten into ether. We're talking about the song song zone here. We're talking about everything that represented the importance of Still Illmatic, because you're talking about someone who was once the champion, who was crowned a champion since his inception and then the industry turned it back on because one person said you had one hot album every 10 year average and that's so lame, as if, as if we forgot about it was written. But I digress. So you got someone who's back against the wall and he's only two years removed from when you're talking about his albums itself and really a one year removed from having QB's fondest. So it's not like he was out the spotlight and he was on a hiatus. He was just not putting out the material that his contemporaries wanted him to put out, because everyone still was wanting. They were still searching for Illmatic. They were still searching for that.

Speaker 2: 2:19:33

We never said that Snoop. When he did Dogfather after Doggystyle, right, we were like, oh, it's Snoop, it's okay, you know what I'm saying. But they criticized and ridiculed him. Even when he dropped, it Was Written. They were saying they didn't like the line. When he dropped, it was written. They didn't like the line when he said I'll be flooded with ice and hell fire. You can't scorch me. I love that line. I love that line.

Speaker 1: 2:19:55

Cormega wrote that line.

Speaker 2: 2:19:59

And they hated it. They didn't want him to say that, so he took it back to the essence. He went back to storytelling, he went back to being who they wanted him to be, which is an original MC, mc of all MCs and someone who was able to put together some phenomenal writing in Stillmatic. Stillmatic phenomenal writing, phenomenal concepts cool To me. I think Stillmatic concepts are the best in his discography.

Speaker 1: 2:20:27

It is in my collection. If you pull the best nine records off, steelmatic, I'm telling you, it's Slapbox and Wheelmatic, I'm telling you.

Speaker 2: 2:20:36

Easily Beats were on point, because you cannot. Now you can't say, oh, he picked bad beats, because the beats on Steelmatic, with the exception of Braveheart Party. Thank you, swizz, it was phenomenal.

Speaker 1: 2:20:47

Shout out to Trike. But do you agree with that now, coop? Because even what Sean is saying, it lends to the fact that this is very much a sequel album. I still don't totally feel that way about it because of the diversity of the product. You know, illmatic is a straight up and down product. Stillmatic is not that to me. But I do see a little bit more of what you're saying, even though I still don't consider it to a sequel. But here's what I will tell you about everything that you all said, because I was actually thinking. That's why you were talking and then you all convinced me of it while you were talking. It is the most triumphant return to glory that we have ever seen from an all-time great MC. Hence the title. It's the return to form.

Speaker 2: 2:21:33

Still Matic, matic, I still got it. Fellas, I don't understand. But what are we talking about? The brother still Matic? I caught up on it. You thought I'd make another ill Matic.

Speaker 1: 2:21:48

Yes, and it is all of those things. But you want to know what I realized when y'all were doing all this talking. It's like man, we are all really really super big Nas fans and part of why my press play is the way that it is. Jay's not totally right with what he's saying on the takeover, but there's enough smoke there that he's not far off base. A great MC is never needed an album the way Nas needed a stillmatic, because this album is so far superior to I am and Nostradamus put together. It is so far superior. You could put how about this? Take the best nine songs from I Am and Nostradamus and they don't come close to the best nine songs on Stillmatic.

Speaker 2: 2:22:36

No, that's a fact.

Speaker 1: 2:22:37

This is the most triumphant return to form we've ever seen from one of our all-time great MCs. Nobody had ever released and I'm not going to call the material poor, because I don't think I Am is poor material. I can't stand Nostradamus, but I don't think that it's poor material.

Speaker 2: 2:22:55

But I like that point Coop.

Speaker 1: 2:22:56

I like that point because Nas was cheating during this era because, like you said, take the best Nas songs off. I Am Like. A lot of those songs didn't make I Am, and then he released them on the lost tapes. So now this is cheap during this era. It's like you want the best songs from I am that didn't make I am here, you go, here's the lost tapes, yeah, but. But I'm. I agree with you, sean. Conceptually this is his manifesto, ag. Uh, as far as lyrically is concerned, I think what goes around is is how about this? Lyrically, what I think of what goes around, it's the only song post it was written. Then I'm like, oh no, that belongs on. It was written. It is so lyrically like that's. I've always told you 96 noz is the best lyricist I've ever heard. What goes around deserves to be on.

Speaker 1: 2:23:42

It was written, not still, maddie, that's how lyrically inclined that record is and how brilliant that record is the flyestest with AZ. Here's where I don't think it's like Illmatic and this is why I'm going to push back with you guys on it. This album has a personality that Illmatic doesn't have One mic in. Destroy and Rebuild is why I do not think this album is like Illmatic. The guy that is on Illmatic does not need to make rewind. The guy that is on Illmatic does not need to make rewind. The guy that is on Illmatic does not impersonate Slick Rick. His personality is not like that. On Slow it Down, he tells you who he is Mean mug and was slow to speak. This is Nas coming out of his actual shell for the first time, and that's why I don't think it's like Illmatic. The guy that's on Illmatic is dark, dense, dreary, intense, quiet, aloof. He's none of those things. On Stillmatic, this guy is talking shit. He is crushing people at every turn. He is impersonating Slick Rick. He is actually screaming on record, which we had never heard him do before prior to one mic, and so I don't think it's like Illmatic.

Speaker 1: 2:24:46

Because of all the beautiful things that make Stillmatic a classic, this is his most colorful classic of all the classics. When I talk about how Illmatic is the Sistine Chapel. Well, you know, the Sistine Chapel got different rooms, but it's all Michelangelo's painting. If we were to compare, you know, nas's artworks to the sistine chapel, this would be the one fresh. This, these would be the frescoes with the brightest colors. This is his most colorful album and so I don't think it's like ilmatic, because ilmatic's not colorful. Ilmatic is dark, depressing and very new york.

Speaker 1: 2:25:21

This is a home run, derby, there's a lot of home run, it is. So what do you? So? What do you think about my pushback, sean and ag?

Speaker 2: 2:25:29

it's. It's a reason for that because, you know, I I kind of compare it more to um the zack snyder superman. Right, when um ilmatic is not not confident in his own strength at the time, right, and if you think about what she said, uh, she said yo calab, calab're not, you're not showing your strength.

Speaker 1: 2:25:51

Right.

Speaker 2: 2:25:51

Okay, Still Illmatic. You hear a different tone because now he's showing off his strength. He know what he is, he know who he is.

Speaker 1: 2:25:58

Now he's reflecting on who he is. How about this? How about this? You know what A little biblical reference. So for me it's like on Illmatic he is like King David before King David becomes King David. You know King David just in the field. You know singing these songs and there's the most beautiful song anybody had ever heard. For those who had heard it, that's what Illmatic is. Oh no, stillmatic is. When David decided he'd grab a slingshot, he like oh no, I will kill the whole tribe with these three stones. Who won't go to war with the king? That's what's still Maddox to me.

Speaker 2: 2:26:33

It's the difference between David.

Speaker 1: 2:26:34

It's David in the field. Illmatic to me is David in the field singing those beautiful songs and still.

Speaker 2: 2:26:39

Maddox is the guy it's evolved.

Speaker 1: 2:26:44

It's like oh no, I'm not singing in the giant Come on, let's go.

Speaker 2: 2:26:48

I like that Kool, but I still think it's more about his youth in 93, 94, because he's so young. But he's being crowned so young and he's speaking from an honest place on Illmatic. He doesn't even know what he is. He doesn't know his own strength on Illmatic. He doesn't even know what he is. He doesn't know his own strength on Illmatic. By the time you get to Stillmatic you know again. Like Superman on the second Justice League, when he came back now he's confident with strength. He went straight to Steppenwolf like it was nothing and he's looking at him like yo, that's all you got. You know what I mean. Like really.

Speaker 1: 2:27:24

But he's still confident with that perspective. I'm glad you said that, sean, because, like on the intro, walking out the door, all of us poor, I learned the difference between the real ones, that who saw you know what I'm saying, talking about born in the Tash Browns, like those bars, and then second childhood, those bars, like you know what I'm saying Like he's still speaking from that Illmatic perspective. He was still young. I don't okay, I don't okay, I don't like, I don't. How about this? On Stillmatic, even though great nostalgic rapper, it's not about the nostalgic moments on this album, it's his most current album too. But I do hear what you're saying. But you know what, sean, when you were talking, I thought about something it's like when it got pretty special if you were talking about Superman. I'm talking about King David, the greatest king in the Bible. We're talking about David and Superman. To compare MC and that means this guy is just out of this world.

Speaker 1: 2:28:15

But to your point, coop, he did need this because this was the first uptick back, because even I love it was written, and I think it was written in a lot of ways is just as good, if not better, than Illmatic. So, even if you say it's a lateral movement from ill matic to. It was written im was a drop, nassar, we're not going to talk about firming qb's minus, but for solo. Then nassar domus was another drop, way further still. Matic is the first uptick and it was a major uptick back on the level of you know I'm I'm saying it was written close to Illmatic territory. So yes, he did need this in fact.

Speaker 2: 2:28:53

He needed it At the time because of the timing At this time, jay had the game in a chokehold.

Speaker 1: 2:29:00

We talk about trending. Like you know what I'm saying. If we're being honest, as Nas fans, he was trending downward. So, like what Jay said has some truth to it, yeah, I work. So, like what jay said has some truth to it, yeah, I mean. This is why I compare it to david. It's like, oh no, no, no people was running around acting like the giants was really running it, and and, and. The way the game really went it was like, well, it was never really meant for them to run it. God was just waiting for david to step up. So that's why I'm saying it's like like one of the most important things that really happened in the happened in the history of hip-hop, is Jay doing what he did on Summer Jam. I'm not talking about the prodigy, I'm talking about when he uttered those words. Ask Nas, he don't want it with Ho, that would be equivalent to the Goliath and the Giants walking out of the land like yeah, yeah, this is ours and we got this. And then David pull up there like you don't have anything Bang bang.

Speaker 1: 2:29:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:29:51

When he said it, I was like did he say that? Did he just really? Did he just say that?

Speaker 1: 2:29:58

He was on top of the world, though he could say that. But that one moment changed the course of hip hop so much, because it took David out of the field and put a slingshot in his hand, and he's not grabbing that slingshot if that doesn't get set.

Speaker 2: 2:30:10

And so we don't get.

Speaker 1: 2:30:11

So we don't get stillmatic. If Jay doesn't do that, imagine that. Imagine this rap game without stillmatic in modern day era. Yeah Well, you know what I'm saying. And then, taking it a step further, you know what I'm saying. When he cuts off Goliath's head and like parades that around, you know what I'm saying we get the victory lap album. I think that's very much what Godson is.

Speaker 1: 2:30:33

That's where the Rudyard Kipling quote comes in at on the Made you Look video. It's like oh, coronation ceremony, got it copy. So beautiful moment. One of the best rap albums of the 2000s, easily.

Speaker 2: 2:30:49

Absolutely. You followed it up with Godson. Another anniversary Came out roughly a year later.

Speaker 1: 2:30:56

Yep December 13, 2002.

Speaker 1: 2:30:59

Actually a little less a week before. So actually 51 weeks later dropped Godson so not quite a year. And I mean I tell people I think I'm somewhere in the middle about this album. Sometimes I think it's good, sometimes I think it's great, sometimes I think it's borderline classic. But I'm never mistaken about the fact that I think Made you Look is the best single he ever released. So what are your thoughts about Godson? Because every time I talk about Godson I just go to Made you Look. It is one of the best rap songs ever, in my opinion. It is one of my favorite rap songs ever.

Speaker 1: 2:31:33

It is a moment of moments for him and I still think it's his best rap song. It rings off the most when he performs. Live out of anything.

Speaker 2: 2:31:44

It was a victory lap song.

Speaker 1: 2:31:46

Can you imagine if Major Luke was on Stillmatic? My God, okay, if Major Look is on Stillmatic, we're having a top 10 to 15, 20 album conversation. Just that one song, like matter of fact. Think about this and I know Braveheart Party's not on Stillmatic anymore, but imagine Braveheart Party not being there and Major Look being there. That is a top 20 rap album of all time. Easy Jesus, yeah, that's a huge. What if? But yeah, godson is a great. I'm with you, coop. I have it ranked 10th in his discography, which is saying a lot as great as Godson is. This weekend in our Discord I did a little playlist with the bot that's in our Discord. I did KD2 versus Godson and it was a pretty interesting matchup. You know what I'm saying, because I got KD2 at number 9 and Godson at number 10 for his discography and to have an album that great that low is kind of crazy.

Speaker 2: 2:32:49

I owe Godson a very close. It's one of my most personable albums for me. I know it's very personable for Nas but he was going through some things. You know his mother. He just lost his mother. Very somber album. But I also I lost my grandaunt, who was actually my godmother at the time and that was the first time I lost her that close to me and I was away.

Speaker 2: 2:33:14

I was stationed in North Carolina at the time and I remember just playing one dance over and over. My weirds didn't tell me to stop playing it. She was like you got to stop playing it. I was playing it over and over. I couldn't get out of it To this day. I can't really play that song to this day because I don't want to go back into that memory bank. During that time this entire album was very personal to me because you guys were in 2002. We was at War Without War. I was in the middle of all of that. Warrior Song was one of those songs that kept me going. Heaven was one of those songs that kind of kept me going. You know, heaven was one of those songs that kind of kept me going. It was just in such a beautiful yet realistic human form, in my opinion, as an emcee showing his vulnerability. See that most emcees weren't doing A lot of rappers don't do that. That most MCs weren't doing A lot of rappers won't do that.

Speaker 1: 2:34:13

So, sean, I'm actually going to echo your sentiments and I think you know what makes an album great for some is actually what can hurt its ranking in his catalog and overall. So when you said that, I thought to myself well, part of what drew me to the album. I lost my grandfather, who raised me a military man, 2001. And so songs like Dance and Heaven and Warrior Song, oh, they resonate with me because I was going through missing my grandfather and I you know.

Speaker 1: 2:34:44

So there's that relatability. Take the personal emotion out of it and let's just look at those records objectively. It's like, well, heaven's probably still a classic, but I'm not sure about Dance and Warrior song objectively, if you take the personal feeling, attachment out of it. And that's how I try to look at God's Son, when it comes to the quality of the songs, because I think it's arguably prior to life, is good. This was his most personal album. It was most introspective, but like I like how you said, cooper, it dangers, you know, it teeters, because if you can identify with it it's going to be great to you. But those are not just tracks you could put on in any setting, you know.

Speaker 2: 2:35:29

Correct.

Speaker 1: 2:35:31

That's what I mean about that record. That album, like Godson, isn't for everybody. Maybe you look and get down. It's for everybody. I Can is for everybody, but the album itself isn't for everybody. It does connect more dots. If you have been dealing or experiencing loss and you just know how it is in the streets, Sometimes people be like oh, I lose people every day, I just want the shit in the bank. You know what I'm saying. And you've got to make music for those cats too.

Speaker 2: 2:35:55

I think that's what makes it so special, because we gravitate to music personally where it reaches us the way music. I can identify where I was in life, you know, physically or even professionally or mentally, based on the music I was consuming at that time. Hip hop is like the soundtrack. Music is the soundtrack of my life, so I can tell you specifically where I was, what state of mind I was in, based on what I was listening to at that time. You have to be able to connect with the artist and connect with the music for it to be one of your very own. If you can't connect with it, then it becomes baseless to you, and to me it wasn't baseless because it has so much depth to it that it spoke volumes to 22, 23-year-old Sean when he was going through.

Speaker 2: 2:36:42

I'm facing my mortality, we at war, I just lost my aunt. I got a lot going going on, so it connected some dots for me personally. And not only that. My favorite artist just came off of a battle with one of the biggest, if not the biggest, artist at that time. This is him on the back end of that battle. He's been going back home with the spoils. So now it's time for me to sit on my throne and now I got to deal with coming back home. I have a lot. I lost my mother, the closest thing to me. I have to deal with that after this battle. It's crazy when you look at it. It's a tough place to be in as an artist.

Speaker 1: 2:37:20

So so this is what I would submit to you about that. So there were times, sean, that I would listen to it's Dark and Hell is Hot and about the impoverished situation that I was in. I would listen to it's Dark and Hell is Hot and it would actually make me cry because it made me realize how poor we were. You get what I'm saying. It would hit that nerve in me when I listened to the records and that's the nerve that it would hit on me like dmx struck the poverty curve uh chord with me. He didn't strike a street dude curve, because I always felt like it's like oh no, he's not just talking about the dudes, who was robbing dudes, he's talking about the people who do not have, and I was one of the people that did not have, and so it resonated with me and I took the album more personally. But I take my personal feelings and emotions out of it's dark and hell is hot. Those songs are still remarkably brilliant, and that's my quibble with godson. I don't know if it's remarkably brilliant like that if you take my emotional attachment out to me. That's all I'm saying. But for those with that emotional attachment to it, it's like I understand, because you're talking about godson. Oh, that's how I feel about it's dark and hell is hot. You can't tell me nothing about that album. You can't tell me nothing because it struck such a chord with me personally that I can't detach myself from the personal attachment I can't. Every time I listen to it. I can remember walking up and down badies ford on the way to school when it's dark and hell is hot was out and I was like I gotta get out of here, like I gotta get out of the West side of Charlotte. It's like I got to get out of here Because, because, because, because, listening to him talk about his situation made me realize how much, how dire my situation was. It was like it's like oh no, I got to get out of here. And so there are albums that motivate you like that. I just I've always been of the train of thought that sometimes your emotional feelings attached to it may make you like the album more. That's why I have it's dark and hell is hot over reasonable doubt. When I tell people they're like you're crazy, I'm like well, I'm not attached to reasonable doubt Like I am. It's dark and hell is hot. I wasn't selling dope in 96. I was broke in 96. I was broke two years later, when it was dark and hell is hot, came out and that's why I related to it more.

Speaker 1: 2:39:21

But he's such a good writer. He strikes a balance with records and other records are still personal but they have so much flair to it, like to be able to pull back the curtain and give the fan this is coming off the battle people love. Whacked out murals because kendrick addressed everything that's happened in the past year. Well, do yourself a favor and go listen to last real nigga live by naz. Because for the fan he pulls back the curtain and says, okay, yeah, me and homie was in a battle, but I'm going to start early 90s, when everybody was just getting on, and walk you step by step through what led up to this point to where we're at now in 2001, 2002. And then the writing on that is just brilliant. You know what I'm saying Just taking the listener through that ride and that experience and to me his arguably the most slept on song in his catalog as far as conceptually Book of Rhymes Love.

Speaker 2: 2:40:18

Book of.

Speaker 1: 2:40:19

Rhymes, alchemist. That's how I got hit to Alchemist. That's how I got hit to Alchemist. Yeah, I think Book of Rhymes might be Nas' most slept on song in his catalog. I think Book of Rhymes might be Nas' most slept on song in his catalog. I think that's a brilliant concept, man and I just you know it's a very personal album, but it's tracks like those two that like really still strike a good balance. So even on Book of Rhymes, which is the concept, he ends it with a personal thought Look at me jealous of my own baby, infant. It's so personal. I felt me jealous of my own baby infant.

Speaker 2: 2:40:50

It's so personal, I felt every bit of that. So personal.

Speaker 1: 2:40:53

Even the concept of it. No, so it's there. It's one of those ones. But you want to know what? Just real quick guys, real talk. The still bad at God son has made me realize yo Jay was super arrogant. He had no business stepping to this dude. He was not prepared for this. The more we are talking about this out loud, I'm thinking to myself. He must have been having the biggest moment of all time to think that he was about to step to this dude with all this information this dude had on the table and it wasn't about to go this way. He really thought he had him.

Speaker 1: 2:41:24

Sometimes you can't see past your own ego. It's the most arrogant man damn just um.

Speaker 2: 2:41:34

Yeah, that's a show. Yeah, and don't forget, he also dropped um the lost tapes in that same within that window, within that year. Yeah, we got some super chats real quick. We have a few that we gotta get to.

Speaker 1: 2:41:51

CJ the Kid follow super chat. Appreciate you, sean. After that comparison you might need to do a chronic versus 36 chambers of Flavibot. Yeah, yo, appreciate Ethan Hill with the follow on super chat. Snoop sounding good is credit to Dre, because Dre is coaching his vocals on every line. Yes, dre is a producer, he doesn't just make the beats, he does you, he does you know vocally. But you know, instead of you know, coaching Snoop on how to say things, he should have been focusing more on, like his production, in my opinion. But that's just me though. Cj the Kid with 5.0 Super Chat, you said Missionary is a 4, but the Firm got a 3.5. Is, but the firm got a three and a half. Is the firm better than this album? That's hard to compare. I'll just say both were letdowns for their own, for different reasons.

Speaker 2: 2:42:44

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1: 2:42:48

CJ, with another thought on Super Chat, since you guys were in real time in this resurgence of the West Coast now looking like how it did in 93 and 94 when the West was on top. This is a resurgence, but this is not 93, 94. By any means. Stop that. Stop that, okay. So let's get this straight. 1993 and 1994, ice Cube, snoop Dogg and Tupac were walking around. They don't have any of that and Drake, what was? That going on?

Speaker 2: 2:43:15

Warren G Was active.

Speaker 1: 2:43:19

Like I said, we can stop at. Tupac Snoop we can stop at Tupac Snoop and.

Speaker 2: 2:43:22

Ice Cube no, Warren G.

Speaker 1: 2:43:26

Oh, Regulate the G-Fuck era, oh, this is great the West was killing it back then. I mean there are dudes like Spice One, mc8, dj Quick. I was a big Ravcast fan man.

Speaker 2: 2:43:38

I was a big DJ, I love.

Speaker 1: 2:43:40

Ravcast and DJ Quick Alcoholics.

Speaker 2: 2:43:44

Pyro.

Speaker 1: 2:43:48

Cliff is casual Del funky homo sapien. No, it's not the same. It's not the same. Shorten 40. Lp with the $5 dollar super chat, appreciate you. Narration describes the lives lost tribes in the ghetto trying to survive. Top five intro ever. Definitely feels like a spiritual successor. Pause the illmatic. Um, yeah, I mean, I've always considered it that always. Uh, cj the Kid with the $5 Super Chat. If Made you Look was on Steelmatic, would it be better than it Was Written? Short answer yes, absolutely. That one song would make the difference.

Speaker 2: 2:44:23

It's not based off one.

Speaker 1: 2:44:26

Yes, that caveat too. Cj, the Kid with the $5. Super Chat Revolutionary Warfare's All Fair Love of War, for the Cause I Gotta Take you Off. I'll super chat Revolutionary Warfare's All Fair Love of War, for the Cause I got to take you off here. Nah, I spazzed on that track, yeah you want to know what.

Speaker 1: 2:44:40

Hold on, you want to know what I might take you all up on. That it Was Written Stillmatic. What Made you Look thing? I don't know about that. I might take you up on that. I thought about that for a second. Oh no, I'm not beating Made you Look, but I'm going to take a lot of them Stillmatic records. The writing would be better on. It Was Written Still, but the home runs on Stillmatic is just like it just sounds bigger. If that makes sense, yeah, but how about this? It's like I like the Stillmatic intro personally better than the Message, but it's not better than the Message. No, I wouldn't say that.

Speaker 1: 2:45:13

That's what I'm saying, but it's not better than the message. No, I wouldn't say that. That's what I'm saying. I don't know if it was written. I don't know if Still Madigan's beating, it was written even, which made you look. I don't know about that. We might have to. Alright, quick question what goes around? Or silent murder? What goes around? For me Super close, what goes around?

Speaker 2: 2:45:33

or taken in blood.

Speaker 1: 2:45:35

How about this? What goes around silent murder and taking in blood, or in the back half of his top 10 to me? So I can go with those I go seven three of my top five nine songs.

Speaker 1: 2:45:44

Right there, they're in the same wheelhouse. Yeah, they're three of my 10, yeah, yeah, but but notice, but notice how, taking in blood and silent murder, on it was written two of your three. Or on it was written Two of your three are on it. It was written Fair enough, fair enough. And yeah, my mere thoughts with the $10 Super Chat Top Nas albums one, illmatic, two, it was written. Three, stillmatic, four, magic Five, kd3. Six, life is Good. Seven, magic Three. Eight, god's Son Nine, 8, god's Son, 9, kd2, 10, kd1. I'm not mad at that list. It's a pretty good list. It's a pretty good list. I'm impressed.

Speaker 1: 2:46:19

Unfortunately, we have to slide down the scale a little bit and go to something a little bit less stellar from Nas. Yeah, this is not a top 10 Nas album. On this day 18 years ago, he released Hip Hop Is Dead. It's not a top 10 Nas album. Um, how about this, guys? I will tell you the part of me that was disappointed in nostradamus has more to do with the young man and his early fandom of his favorite rap artist. This was the album that disappointed me the most, because I had such high expectations for this. After winning the battle. After still matic, after god's son, after lost tapes, after the deaf jam signing, after the jay reunion and all the hoopla, I thought we were getting the classic album. And then I hear this Lucy call where y'all at and I'm thinking to myself it is about to go down. Where y'all at is still. How about this? This is what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1: 2:47:07

Where y'all at is one of my 25 favorite Nas songs. Like to my top 25, somewhere it might be top 20. So you have to understand. Think about this, for godson, godson stillmatic, lost tapes, winning the battle, signing the death jam where y'all at. I thought this album was going down like a classic and it is just submitted. We just need to call it what it is. You talk about one song making a difference. Man, I was sick when where y'all at wasn't on the album, but I did get the track.

Speaker 1: 2:47:33

I bought my joint from best buy and it had like two downloadable bonus tracks. They had where y'all at and then the end joint. You all remember the end. You know what I'm saying. I had those but it wasn't on the official album album. I do got an import joint that got it on there and it got the uh, the blood diamonds joint shine on. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, I got an import that got those three tracks on it. But at any rate it was somewhat of a letdown because you had all the hype coming with. Black Republicans when y'all at was buzzing crazy on the underground level. It's crazy.

Speaker 2: 2:48:08

It had potential.

Speaker 1: 2:48:09

It's tracks on there, it's dope joints on there, but it's just uneven. It's not that it's not fire on there, it's it's. It's just uneven. It's not that it's not fire on there, it just sounds like the retail version of I am, but a lesser version like it's um it's uneven.

Speaker 2: 2:48:22

It didn't fit the aesthetic of that year and that era. That hip-hop was changing drastically during that time and jay and nas honestly both of them didn't drop albums within that window. That fit the aesthetic of that time, because during that time the South was on point. The South was killing everything. The music was different, the tone was different. If you were in the clubs, you heard it different. There was nothing on hip hop. Instead, that you can ring off in a club or ring off in a whip that had bass in the back, because during that time people was buying a lot of bass music, a lot of speakers.

Speaker 1: 2:49:00

Hustler's got some knock to it. That's Dre.

Speaker 2: 2:49:03

Hustler has it, but still the tone. The tone just didn't fit what we were listening to at that time. The sound was on fire.

Speaker 1: 2:49:12

You want to know what's funny. You want to know what's funny. You want to know what's funny, though and this doesn't have nothing to do with the quality of the album, but remember, when Jeezy was on the radio like you know what I'm saying popping off about Nas because hip-hop was dead, like you know what I'm saying with Monie Love and all that, and he was like basically talking about you know, nas don't bust as good Nas. Don't know if I ain't the fan Nas irrelevant. But if you go back and look at those numbers and I hate to, you know, be the one to talk numbers, but Hip Hop Is Dead, outsold the recession, you know what I'm saying for the first week and stuff. So it's kind of ironic because Jeezy and you know Jeezy was one of the people that was running the era. You know what I'm saying. But if you go back and look at the numbers, hip Hop is Dead, outsold it.

Speaker 2: 2:49:52

Yeah, that's what Nas said on.

Speaker 1: 2:49:54

They dropped around the same time.

Speaker 2: 2:49:56

What Nas said on Success walking to, the walking to the Lions Take everybody's chips.

Speaker 1: 2:50:01

About to cash the man Up your catalog dog. Mine's worth as much yeah he was taking shots at all those dudes that were taking shots in those mid-2000s.

Speaker 2: 2:50:10

That was that was those. Yeah, that's what he said.

Speaker 1: 2:50:12

He said you ain't gotta brag about the feds. Young man right old cribs I sold y'all. Drive by like monuments, google Earth knobs. I got flats on other continents. It's like I was like, okay, don't talk too greasy to him today he's from the A-Town. You need to be nice to my Atlanta brethren all right.

Speaker 1: 2:50:33

I will say this, I think well, you know, I mean I don't want to give this album too much run because it doesn't deserve it, but I do think Money Over Bullshit is one of his more underrated intros. Not the best, but I think it is one of his most underrated start-offs to an album.

Speaker 2: 2:50:46

Might be top five dude. Might be top five. It's not top five. It's not top five.

Speaker 1: 2:50:54

It's not top five, but it might be six or seven, but it's not top five. I respect that you said six or seven, because it's right there, man. The way it starts off is crazy. We got a stillmatic intro of the message in New York State of Mind, so it's fourth at best, and then I'll put speechless over it. Speechless definitely. Would have started off KD2 with Death Row East. Be going with Death Row East too. Could have started off KD2 with Death Row East.

Speaker 2: 2:51:23

Top five, you would not survive. Rule one come on.

Speaker 1: 2:51:28

Rule two thought you knew don't. Rule three see, If y'all reach top five, I'm going to eat y'all reach top five.

Speaker 2: 2:51:35

I'ma eat y'all alive each one of you rappers who claim hip hop is still alive. I need an agreement with Nas. I said it's dead.

Speaker 1: 2:51:44

He doubled down. I like that he doubled down.

Speaker 2: 2:51:47

I like that. He doubled down.

Speaker 1: 2:51:49

Yeah, good times, good times we'll just blame Khalees for 2006 to 2010 and keep it pushing.

Speaker 2: 2:51:58

Blame Khalees, it's an easy thing to do Y'all want to hit the Discord dialogues and then get into this quick press play called the Night?

Speaker 1: 2:52:12

Yeah, because that one thing we're going to do, we need to really lock in for that next show. We do Like, as a whole, Just nothing but that I was thinking about that too. Actually, I'd like to actually end the show by reading off our top 20 the last time we talked, so that we have a template to go off of, because I went and found the notes from our mid-season review show. I got it too. Coop Say less Great minds.

Speaker 2: 2:52:40

I thought we were going to make it this far.

Speaker 1: 2:52:42

I'll do mine, AG what kind of Dear Lord AG. Discord Dialogues DJ Clue oh my God, yeah. Discord Dialogues manue oh my God, oh yeah, yeah. Discord Dialogues man Queens get the money. Dj Clue, more Queens. I was actually kind of hyped that DJ Clue, you know, made the Discord Dialogues this week. I nominated him because, I wasn't, I wasn't excited. This is your fault, this is your fault, this is your fault, this is happening.

Speaker 1: 2:53:12

That's wild. But yeah, the professional also had an anniversary this week. Hold on, ag, not to cut you off. You talking about Queens, get the money to sign the Rockefeller. Okay, keep going, keep going, keep going. Okay, say less. But yeah, the professional had an anniversary this week as well. And I don't think people give the professional, uh, enough credit because, granted, um, funk, master flex had 60 minutes of funk, a couple volumes maybe out before professional, but on a major label scale putting out a compilation.

Speaker 1: 2:53:48

The quote-unquote mixtape was done in the biggest of ways when coop dropped the professional and I don't think people that wasn't tapped into that era knew what clube meant to the culture. Like artists used to really fight for, like placements on a clube tape, like you know, being first or second, you know, on a clube mixtape. During that time in new york clube was breaking new artists, like if you had somebody in your camp like a Seagull or you know what I'm saying Rough Riders. You know if they had, like you know, whoever, whoever in Terrace Walk, yeah, anybody who was a new artist coming up the first time you heard them would be on a Clue tape. And then the world got introduced to them when they were on a feature on an album or, you know, in a video, but guaranteed, the first time anybody heard him was through dj clue. You know he was breaking these new artists and to get a placement on clue tape was of the highest esteem.

Speaker 1: 2:54:49

You know, especially in that era, from new york, especially if you can get on the jump off track, or you know track two or three and um New York, especially if you can get on the jump off track, or you know track two or three, and I just don't think he gets enough credit for the rise that Rockefeller had. I mean, that's actually kind of a cheat code because you know what I'm saying, all the new, you know what I'm saying, the sauce, money tracks or whatever. You know what I'm saying. They had him in house to break all these new Rockefeller artists during that time. But he was also, you know, showing love to, like, you know, all the other artists too. So it just not. It's just. It's not like he was just showing Rockefeller love, he was really breaking artists all the way around, man.

Speaker 1: 2:55:30

And DJ Clue was somebody who was a legend Once you heard his voice. Now, granted, he talked a little bit too much over some fire tracks, I will say that he talked a little bit too much. Over some fire tracks, I will say that he talked a little too much, but once you heard his voice you knew it was on, and so many classics respond from his mixtape. So I don't think he's a legend that gets talked about enough in this game. Sean, you have some kind words.

Speaker 2: 2:55:52

No, you hit on the head man.

Speaker 2: 2:55:53

I think that as much as we laud him for being with Rockefeller, I think it also kind of hurt him in some way as well.

Speaker 2: 2:56:01

You know being from Queens and also you know being part of that backdrop and being on Rockefeller and not getting a chance to maximize his time on Rockefeller when Rockefeller was on fire. I think one of his biggest, you know, tributes to Rockefeller was when he did the backstage joint right, because he was all that and I still think that I don't know if it was by a byproduct of just what was going on, because the engine was Jay. You know everything, all the everything, the energy and all the resources are pushed into Jay to get Jay at the forefront. And you had, like you said, you had Lou in that camp who had an opportunity to do mixtapes for Bleak Beans, all those guys and break those guys a bit further, because to be on a Clue mixtape was very heavy in New York and maybe it was just a sign of the times, because I don't think Clue was with the Rockefellers until like 98, 99. I think that's when he 98.

Speaker 1: 2:56:59

So by that time Late 97, early 98. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:57:03

So maybe by that time it was like his. The legend of Clue was already established. But also, you're talking about a time when artists weren't clamoring to get to him because they had other outlets. You still, you had on Funk Flex, that was still out there. You had Big Cap. About a time when artists weren't clamoring to get to them because they had other outlets, you still. You had on funk flex, that was still out there. You had big cap. That's in peace. Yeah, you had all these other uh uh djs out there that you could go to, and not only that. You know, you still had.

Speaker 2: 2:57:29

It was a very small backdrop, because now clued with rockef, we don't want to go. You know, if I'm mobbed deep, I don't really want to contribute so much to that, right, because right now you're looking kind of shaky. For me the battle wasn't in full display, but there's some things, there's some underlying things going on, there's some undertone there and you don't want to be a part of that in some way. And clue was on that side. So I don't know if that impacted him as much. Um, but clue is clue, still legend, still made man and he was moving and shaking.

Speaker 1: 2:58:05

One thing I don't think he gets enough credit for more so than other djs. He was really out there getting some exclusives, Like exclusive exclusives. You know what I mean. I've heard stories about situations that Clue had been in to get an exclusive to put on the tape that he wasn't supposed to have certain records. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 2:58:28

But I think Clue's a legend Ain't cheating if you ain't trying. I like Clue. I don't love Clue. I do feel like he is one of those people that just his presence with him being from Queens but helping put on a Brooklyn artist like Fab, always going to Jay and Rockefeller but still getting a Nas record I do feel like he was part of the friction that kind of started a Cold War because he was on both sides. I don't like dudes that play I that kind of started a cold war because he was on both sides. I don't like dudes that play both sides. That's why I don't care for Steve Stout like that. I don't care what nobody say, he got something to do with all that starting too. I don't deal with dudes that really do that because it's like really you may get in the music business, you ain't going to survive outside like that.

Speaker 1: 2:59:07

But I'm a big fan of the professional and the professional part too. I think both of those mixtapes, as far as for public consumption and release, is better than Funk's, Flex stuff, K Slay's stuff, Cap's stuff, Clue put together the best mixtapes for mass consumption for people outside of the New York State area to hear, and I do appreciate him for that I'm with you. I think his biggest contribution to Rockefeller is actually backstage. To me, Beanie Siegel's In the Club is a top three bean song and I can't front. Part of my attachment to that record is when Clue come in. Dj Clue professional.

Speaker 2: 2:59:46

DJ.

Speaker 1: 2:59:47

Beanie Siegel In the Club, what no? So it's part of my attachment to even one of my favorite Seagull records. You know, I personally think that Live from the Bridge is better than Queen's Finest. I'm one of the few people that feel that way. I've been arguing with Queen's. I think War is better than both of them, and that's on the Professional 3. That's fair, it might be, but how about this? This is what I hold on. It's just more of a naz risk, but it's like, oh no that he's live on live from the bridge. That's why I like it. I like it when naz gets animated. Get animated. But what pacified is the bastard who died, rumors say I came back a lot to attack, to attack niggas acting like my eyes. My passion is to capitalize. Come to my hood. You get jacked for your ride, hit you from the passenger side.

Speaker 1: 3:00:36

My eyes turn to sea red like the eyes of a weenie. Y'all peep my lead and hide like east of the edge.

Speaker 2: 3:00:43

Ooh, when he's talking like that.

Speaker 1: 3:00:46

I will say this. I will say this, ag, and you brought it up on War. There is something about a clue mixtape that always gets Nas to talk like that, and that's why I was like, oh, I don't love the guy but I can see how he brings out the best in artists.

Speaker 1: 3:00:59

He brings out the best in the best artists. That would be Nas and Jay. He helps break new artists like a Beanie, siegel, a Fab, a Drag on. He has done a lot of good work in Queens and in Brooklyn. He is a legend, shout out to Clue we got nasty Nas on war. He said God gets me out of this. The devil swallowed me up and burned a hole in his guts. That's just crazy.

Speaker 2: 3:01:22

You know what I'm saying Like Gangsta, live in the sky. He was going off. I grew on paper.

Speaker 1: 3:01:32

He fell down into a whip and he said blast Nas shit. He fell down into a whip and he said blast Nas shit.

Speaker 2: 3:01:37

To the whip saying blast Nas shit.

Speaker 1: 3:01:39

Yo, that song is crazy. But one thing about Clue he didn't play favoritism because a lot of people don't remember when Nas first jumped stuff off with the I4Ni freestyle, that was on a Clue tape, it was on Clue tape. Clue put that out.

Speaker 2: 3:01:56

Like I said, that was on a clue tape. Clue put that out While you were beside the Rockefeller.

Speaker 1: 3:01:58

But that's what I mean about playing both sides of the fence and it not being a smart idea. It's better to be diplomatic than to just be one-sided to Rockefeller. I look at it like that because you're a DJ.

Speaker 2: 3:02:10

But it also got suppressed, though it also got suppressed by Jay, because if you know who had it, who else had it in their possession around the same time?

Speaker 1: 3:02:19

You can't be diplomatic when you're dealing with Jay. You either are with Jay or you're not with Jay.

Speaker 2: 3:02:24

You can't be diplomatic when you're dealing with Jay.

Speaker 1: 3:02:27

That's why a lot of things happen for him the way you do.

Speaker 2: 3:02:30

That's the freestyle. A lot of people didn't know about that freestyle. This is true. Jay made that line. They didn't know what he was talking about.

Speaker 1: 3:02:38

They didn't know what he was talking about. I think that verse is slap boxing with his verse on the actual real record. But I digress absolutely you can see that it's a possibility. Alright, fellas, time to get to our last segment for the day. A little press play from the fellas.

Speaker 2: 3:02:54

Yes, sir, you know it's time to get to our last segment for the day. A little press play from the fellas.

Speaker 1: 3:02:56

Yes, sir, you know we decided to switch speeds a little bit and cut our press play down to a little four-pack. When AG hit me up with the four-pack idea, sean, and told me we were condensing down the four, I immediately thought to myself. I was like, well, we are talking about Nas's fifth studio album today. He has four projects. Before I wanted to pick the four track fours from the first four albums to show some of the things that Jay was actually talking about. That led to the triumph return. That is still Maddie.

Speaker 1: 3:03:32

A little 4-4-4 for Nas, a little 4-4-4 for Nas, a little 4-4-4 for Nas. Glad you picked it up, ag. Glad you're liking it. The first number four is the World Is Yours by Nas off Illmatic. Anybody who knows me, this song is my motto and been my anthem since I was pretty much 13 years old. It is my personal favorite rap song and it seems crazy to say this is actually becoming an underrated song of his, because nobody really plays the World is Yours like that anymore. It ain't hard to tell, and New York State of Mind have circumvented it in terms of, I think, what the street heads play and I think One Love and Life's a Bitch lives on in street lexicon more, and so I think a lot of people have forgotten about the brilliance that is the World Is Yours, which I still think is a better song than it. Ain't Hard to Tell, but that's just me personally.

Speaker 1: 3:04:19

Next we are going to go to maybe the most lyrical manifesto ever written, which is Nas. On track four of it Was Written I Gave you Power, I think. Just bar-wise and hook-wise. This is the best song lyrically ever created and a lot of people forget. The lyrics on here are so astounding.

Speaker 1: 3:04:35

This is one of DJ Premier's most underrated beats that nobody talks about. This beat is actually really, really great. It actually sounds something. This beat sounds very group home living proof like it. I mean that in a good way, the understated tone of it was good so he could tell the story he was trying to convey Correct, and that's what I mean about it having that group home feel, because a lot of those group home beats are brilliant but understated, but have a real hip hop feel to it. I do think I Gave you Power is in that vein. And now I would like to illustrate some of the fall off. Track four, small World off of I Am and I love Small World. Small World is a Small World, is a great story and it's a great song. If you think, if you all think, that Small World is not a drop off from the World is Yours and I gave you power, you a sniffing Peruvian flake. Let's go to all nah man.

Speaker 1: 3:05:33

I ain't let you do that. Carol is the Lady Hair, crazy Peruvian flake. Let's go to all the way to Nah man, I ain't letting you do that Coop. Carol is the Maryland she's Lady Heroine, she elegant.

Speaker 2: 3:05:38

Yeah, crazy I like Small World.

Speaker 1: 3:05:41

Small World is a top five song on I Am, but that's the problem with I Am and my man's wig. She said the eulogy you can spit those bars on. That is not. The world is yours or I gave you power, and then we're going to go all the way to the bottom with number four, number four, on album number four, some of us have angels yeah so we went to, the world is yours, so some of us have angels.

Speaker 1: 3:06:06

That's what we doing. That's Coops, faux, faux, faux. And now you can see. And now you can see why stillmatic is so important, because you can see the drop-off between Illmatic and it Was Written, and I Am and Nostradamus. You can separate and see some decline how I still love this Track four on Stillmatic. You know what I mean Smoking, smoking. I never was a big fan of smoking. From being honest, what's crazy about it? I love smoking. Me too, I love it.

Speaker 2: 3:06:40

It was good for me early on.

Speaker 1: 3:06:42

It's for the West Coast cats. I think I was.

Speaker 2: 3:06:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:06:45

Yeah, it's for the West Coast. That was a West record.

Speaker 2: 3:06:49

These super chats real quick. I almost forgot we got like four of them. No doubt, no doubt, no doubt.

Speaker 1: 3:06:57

Yo Chief and them with $5 super chat. Add Street Dreams remix or Take it In Blood 2 and it was written We'll get Stillmatic out of there. Those are both very good songs.

Speaker 1: 3:07:11

I can use the Street Dreams remix. It's over for y'all. Yeah, that's a fact. With Nastyasty as R Kelly on it, andrew Williams with the $5 Super Chat, hip-hop is dead. It's not good, but I will say this Hold Down the Block is my favorite Nas song ever. Wow, wow. Some of the hardest bars you'll ever hear is on that second verse, for real.

Speaker 2: 3:07:31

I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that.

Speaker 1: 3:07:33

Me neither I'm going to go listen to the song again, just because I respect Andrew's acumen.

Speaker 2: 3:07:38

Yeah, go listen to the song, andrew.

Speaker 1: 3:07:40

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Ill Magic with the $5 Super Chat said I feel like Dre should have did what Hip Boy did and just focus on the beats, let Snoop do his thing. I don't think that's necessarily true, because I think hip boy did coach nas and produce nas. I don't think he just showed up, pulled up with a beat pack and let nas do his thing. They were very collaborative and how nas, like, rapped on the track, I don't think. I don't think hip boy produced nas that much on kd1. I believe from my interview it's like he he really didn't start executive producing nas till kd2. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:08:14

But if you, if you watch the masterclass that Nas had and the hit boy with him when they was crafting the song, big Nas hit boy is very instrumental in how Nas, like you know, lays out. You know the flow pattern. You know what I'm saying. Like he he's lit, he's open to his feedback. We'll say that. You know what I'm saying. It's a very you know I'm saying it's a very you know um give and take relationship. Like you know. You know, this is this. This is somebody that did the first verse to new york state of mind in one take and then turned around as dj premier did that sound good, so he is a collaborator. Yeah, does that sound good.

Speaker 1: 3:08:51

Is that all of them? Sean? Are we got more? Are you good? Okay, you want me to go next? Yes, sir, please. Okay for my press play. I wanted to stick with the theme of the albums that we got for anniversaries. My favorite track off of the Professional is the Fantastic Four featuring the likes of Big Pun, cannabis, nori and Cam'ron. Dope track you know what I'm saying? My favorite joint on that by far. And one thing you can count on for a clue tape you would get the dope collaborations. That wasn't normal pairings that you would get to hear every day. So, yeah, this is definitely a classic record. I still go back and forth with who had the best verse. I think all of them brought it on this track. I like Cam on the record. Style points, cam with style points.

Speaker 1: 3:09:41

You know, what I'm saying. Like Faithy Dash, you know. The rest you already know. I'm sorry about saying that line earlier. Coop, I forgot you was in the car with your mom. Yeah, come on man. Headphones are in. Headphones are in. Headphones are in Headphones are in oh okay, got you.

Speaker 1: 3:09:58

That's some cool man, got you. Next, I got the Glock. I said I had this joint. You know what I'm saying. I said shout out to my son for copying me the vinyl. You know what I and flag man love that record, that joint just goes hard. We listen to that joint in the car often, me and my son, so I had to put that on here. Um, next, uh, coop.

Speaker 1: 3:10:24

We talked about this, the conceptual brilliance of the cool. My favorite record on the cool is put you on game. Like, conceptually, what lupe does with that song is very coherent, it's palatable, it's digestible, like everything is, you know, from a great storytelling track is there, the beat is there, and, um, I just wish Lupe cause I'm a big Lupe fan I wish he would get back in this, back, you know, but it might be a hey, real quick. The cool has a lot of it was written to it in terms of the lyrics are very complex but very digestible at the same time. Yes, right, he said he studied. He said he studied it was written to make the cool not necessarily a one to one comparison as far as, but just how Nas approached certain themes. He said that it was written was his template when making that album is documented that. You know he studied that to make it so you can hear it. You can hear it, absolutely love love that album.

Speaker 1: 3:11:14

It's documented that. You know he studied that to make it so you can hear it. You can hear it. Yeah, absolutely love, love that album and love put you on the game. And then um, for my last track. Uh, I mentioned this earlier, stranded on death row from the chronic. What a hell of a way to end the album. Um, and I just don't think it's talked about enough. As far as posse cuts go, you know what I'm saying? The track's banging, everybody brings it with their verses and I just wanted to show us some love, man, you know it's one of my favorite posse cuts of all time. I don't love that record, to be honest, which is one of my least favorite records on the chronic.

Speaker 1: 3:11:52

But, everybody else loves it and I see why I was never about it like everybody else because, because it's the outside of, maybe like little ghetto boy it's, it's the lyrical.

Speaker 1: 3:12:03

I don't think that. I don't want to say lyrics wasn't a priority, but I just think that's the one to say okay, we're going to spit on this record. You know what I'm saying, I? So this is more to the doggy style thing too, ag, I think I, like all the posse, cut records on doggy style better than stranded on death row. Oh, that's fair, it's doggy style. You know right, I think that has something to do with it. I can see that.

Speaker 2: 3:12:27

Yup. So mine start off with you're the man we're listening to. Stillmatic. Love this joint, love the reflection that he portrayed on You're the man, how he was able to really just reflect on himself really quick and get right back into the floor of the battle, and I love this joint. I think this was like a small diss record to Jay as well. I think it was like a subliminal song for us.

Speaker 1: 3:12:55

I was told that this was actually part of the I Am Nostradamus sessions.

Speaker 2: 3:13:00

You're the man.

Speaker 1: 3:13:02

I was told that you're the man is actually from the Nas Nostradamus. I'm not sure because I heard another version of you're the man that got leaked out and it had a lot of bars. Nas tweaked stuff over the year so that might be true, cool, but I heard a version that you remember the scarface joint in between us. Yes, okay, with faith. Yeah, yeah, I heard like it was. It was a version of that that the bars were in you're the man and he was going at jay and he was saying some like wild stuff. You know I'm saying it was leaked around, uh, napster and all that stuff around that time. You know I'm saying but that's the making for that verse became what was part of in between us.

Speaker 1: 3:13:46

You know I'm saying so it was. Yeah, because, because I feel like somebody had told me a long time ago that him and large pro did that record in 99. And if you listen to the beginning of it, it would make sense because that would coincide with Jay's reign, kind of happening. The plan was to knock me off the top of the game, but I understand the truth is all lame, it just happens to fit, but I think he said it before. Yeah, and I'm glad you brought up Large, because the way Large flipped that sample, that Sugar man yo.

Speaker 2: 3:14:15

Sugar Man's sample was crazy, crazy best beats. You're the man's one of his best beats, large, did his thing I know I don't know how he even did that, how he took his sugar man. He turned it into you're the man like.

Speaker 1: 3:14:27

I don't even know how he did it, it's you know it's the only thing I will compare to it like that tweet is the it Ain't Hard to Tell remix, where you know what I'm saying, lars, same person to you know what I'm saying Biz Marquis Nas, where he said recognizes the king of disco. You know what I'm saying, like where he takes the end of it and says Nas is the king of disco. You know what I mean. Lars is a genius man. He don't get enough credit.

Speaker 2: 3:14:54

That was Sanchez's song, right? Sugar man, the guy Sanchez, yeah yeah, one of the biggest artists that never existed, really. He disappeared. I disappeared, man. My second one was a game featuring non-street riders. Love street riders, love street riders.

Speaker 1: 3:15:14

I was talking about this track today with Mahoby man. Why you play it?

Speaker 2: 3:15:18

It was harassing the illest. He went crazy on that. What?

Speaker 1: 3:15:23

we was talking about was the random shot fired at Ferris.

Speaker 2: 3:15:27

It was random, I don't think it was. It was intentional. I think it was popping. It was intentional.

Speaker 1: 3:15:34

Do you like Street Riders better than Letter to the King? Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:15:40

This is the best for me?

Speaker 1: 3:15:42

Yes, and it didn't end up on the album. It was on his Break Lights mixtape, I remember. I agree, I think this is the best record they did together. I don't know Pharrell. He wear pastel colors. I wear the pain of the Soledad brothers and the chrome gap buses.

Speaker 2: 3:16:00

My arm, I could go shots, you niggas Come on man.

Speaker 1: 3:16:04

He ate 50 spoons on that joint. I should fix their first Bentley. I went to the shop, went to the shop. Crazy, definitely talking crazy.

Speaker 2: 3:16:14

Crazy, I actually dig into the craze. Man D Definitely talking crazy. Crazy, I actually dig into the craze. Man DMX had a birthday yesterday, man. Rest in peace to the.

Speaker 1: 3:16:20

X.

Speaker 2: 3:16:22

Rest in peace to X man. And I dig into the craze man. I went and listened to Grand Champ a little bit and that Grand Champ album was underrated. Man Underrated, I agree. I agree. Crazy young man. He was fed up. Oh, I mean, he was fed up with everything. He was fed up. This is my favorite song on there.

Speaker 1: 3:16:42

Actually it's the best song on there.

Speaker 2: 3:16:44

This is his fourth best album, this is better than the Great Depression it is. It really is. If he would have dropped this before, Great Depression different conversation.

Speaker 1: 3:16:54

this before Great Depression, different conversation. Yes, I think the Great Depression slowed his momentum down greatly.

Speaker 2: 3:16:58

Yeah, it really did.

Speaker 1: 3:17:00

Yeah, because he was on an all-time great run until the Great Depression.

Speaker 2: 3:17:05

Yeah, yeah, the Styles had a crazy verse. He was like he said if you got your shoulders how you said, that shit start off in that verse. I forget, I ain't heard it in so long.

Speaker 1: 3:17:18

but yeah, styles always said wild stuff man.

Speaker 2: 3:17:22

He said if your head not off your shoulders, you ain't got shot, you got nipped. Nigga Just nipped. My last one was Bees Got Nowhere. Shout out to Bees. If there's a song that represents Philly, this is a song that represents Philly to me. I don't know if 88 Spence is in the chat still, but Got Nowhere is one of those songs that just chilling man that beat, man Beat man that beat is awesome.

Speaker 1: 3:17:53

I don't know how Jay let that get past him over to State Property. I think Beans might have had to shoot the fairway with Jay for that one, I mean, he's the original. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:18:10

That's an A-folder beat. That is yes. Well, Lord knows, Beanie.

Speaker 1: 3:18:14

Segal didn't get a lot of those because of somebody. That's what A-folder beat. That is it? Yes, Well, Lord knows, Beanie Siegel didn't get a lot of those because of somebody. That's what I'm saying. I don't know how he got a hold of this one. Jay must have not been at the studio that day and being like I'm taking this.

Speaker 2: 3:18:26

I don't know if Jay could have pulled this one off with the velocity.

Speaker 1: 3:18:31

So remember earlier in the show when I'm like, oh no, jay man, he did one of the greatest things in hip hop history when he stepped on that stage and said, oh no, he don't want to hold. This is the worst thing he did yeah, suppress me. I'm never letting it go, because Beans is a top five talent.

Speaker 2: 3:18:51

Beans is better Beans?

Speaker 1: 3:18:53

how about this all the Kendrick shit? Cole talent how about this All the Kendrick shit. He eat all their food in his prime Gaines was a problem, man. Oh yeah, With ease.

Speaker 2: 3:19:06

Oh yeah, With ease.

Speaker 1: 3:19:10

Alive.

Speaker 2: 3:19:11

Yeah, he wait.

Speaker 1: 3:19:17

All this boogeyman stuff. No, no, no. You want to see a boogeyman? Go see Beans in 01. That is a real boogeyman. That guy is terrifying. He is the guy that had Jay and Nas scared. You can tell he had Jay scared. Look at what Jay did to him.

Speaker 2: 3:19:31

Yeah, had to suppress to him. He had a suppressor. He just didn't have the charisma that Jay had. Of course, everything else, check, check, check.

Speaker 1: 3:19:41

Nobody this side of Big and Tupac has Jay's charisma, so there's not a good enough reason to do that Freeway was up there too.

Speaker 2: 3:19:51

Freeway's first album.

Speaker 1: 3:19:53

Freeway's first album was fire Freeway's first album was crazy. I think the first five, the first six records on. There is just.

Speaker 2: 3:20:02

Line them Up is my favorite.

Speaker 1: 3:20:05

The first six, seven records are all fives on Free's album, though we flip side, yeah, flawless.

Speaker 2: 3:20:12

But yeah, that's mine, fellas, that's my four right there. For yeah, that's mine, fellas, that's my four right there For this press. Play man good show fellas.

Speaker 1: 3:20:21

Yeah, I know we didn't have time to kind of start doing our top 20 albums of the year, but for everybody watching us and everybody stay tuned our last show of the year or second our last show of the year or second to last show of the year is going to be a year end recap where we break down the top 20 albums of the year according to Hip Hop Talks AG. Did you want to read out the top 20 albums that we had before? Alright, starting from the top, we had Rhapsody. This is the last time we talked about it, so a lot has dropped since then. Just so people know, we had Rhapsody. This is the last time we talked about it, so a lot has dropped since then. Just so people know. We had Rhapsody at one Please Don't Cry.

Speaker 1: 3:20:57

Number two I Am God with Blood Stain, sway 2.5. Number three we had the Game and Big Hit with Paisley Dreams. Number four we had Schoolboy Q with Blue Lips. Number five we had Gunna, one of One. Number six we had gunner, one of one. Number six we had big hit.

Speaker 1: 3:21:19

Hit boy in the alchemist with blacks, black and white. Um number seven we had future and metro booming where we don't trust you um, number eight we had um, my commie, uh. And then number nine I got a lot of scribble on here. Number nine we got the Dog Pound with WAWG. Number 10, I think we had Master Ace, but I got that scribbled out. And then 11 through 20 was kind of all over the place. You know what I'm saying on my notes. But we had. I'll tell you what we had, in no particular order, but we had. I'll tell you what we had, in no particular order. We had Ransom, lavish Misery School, sorry. Crooked Eye, joel Ortiz with Tapestry, lupe, samurai Benny, everybody Can't Go. Bodie James, across the Tracks, conway Slap Face, killer Rock Marcy with Marciology, ghostface with Set the Tone I don't think that made it while you're playing. And then we had 21 Savage American Dreams and that rounded out our top 20 then. So a lot of these about 10 or 12 of these are going to get cut. I can see that right now.

Speaker 2: 3:22:27

Yeah, that's going to get tossed.

Speaker 1: 3:22:30

I was about to say AJ, when you started reading off the side I was like oh man, 12 of them albums is gone.

Speaker 2: 3:22:34

Yeah, easy, easy.

Speaker 1: 3:22:39

That's a whole flip fellas. Oh, and I left out Ben Staples' joint. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so we got some work to do.

Speaker 2: 3:22:46

It's okay to leave that out. I mean, it's a lot to be left out.

Speaker 1: 3:22:50

Man free big hit. Man Free Big Hit. They made two of the 10 best albums this year. Free Big Hit. You really did. Yeah, free Big Hit. They made two of the 10 best albums this year. Yep, and I think I had Eminem on here. Yeah, eminem was in the running for top 20, but I don't know if he put him in with Death of Slim Shady. Definitely need to call LA County. Y'all let OJ out once upon a time. You can let Big Hit out If you can. That's what's up. Y'all Dope show fellas and Big Hit ain't wearing no Bruno Mali and stabbing white chickens. Free Big Hit. Okay, on that note.

Speaker 2: 3:23:32

Yo, we appreciate y'all. Like, subscribe, share, tell a friend. Tell a friend. Follow us on Discord. We put the link in the chat. Follow us on Twitter HipHopTalks1 at Twitter. Follow us on Facebook HipHopTalks on Facebook. Follow us on IG HipHopTalks on IG. And definitely follow us here. If you're not already following on YouTube, make sure you put the thumbs up in the chat, put the thumbs up on the actual screen of our YouTube and make sure you share it, like and subscribe. That's all we're asking for. We're close to hitting that 2K mark. We're actually at 1.8, going on 1.9, but our shows are averaging at 2.5 to 3K views. So those of you who are still pulling up, we appreciate the love. We're just asking that you go ahead and subscribe and make it official and join the family. A lot of things we are working up for the finish of the year and we're going to kick off 2025 really strong. Our 50th show will actually kick off 2025. So we may do something special for you all for our 50th show. It's a milestone for us, so we appreciate y'all.

Speaker 1: 3:24:43

I'm not black emoji. Hey, andrew, I waited till the end of the show to compromise our ad revenue Victory. I'm pretty certain YouTube doesn't watch at the end. All right, it's only because you're in the car with your mother. Coop, stop it. That's the only reason.

Speaker 2: 3:25:02

The only reason. Oh my God, right, you did not go unconscious.

Speaker 1: 3:25:06

Yo, I pay so much money to watch her pull over and tell Coop to go get a switch. Right, coop's like hold on, I'll be back y'all. You see, I see the camera move on all places. How do you know that didn't happen already when I blacked out the camera? Right, yeah, yeah, you just need a hand to come out the sunroof and smack.

Speaker 2: 3:25:28

Coop on the side, coop passes and be like this.

Speaker 1: 3:25:37

Mom has the dual sunroof in the car. I'm in the back sunroof. She hits you. You be seeing stars, like you're in the Maybach.

Speaker 2: 3:25:47

Back in the Maybach Face, that Don't taste. That Yo man Peace y'all, peace y'all. That Yo man Peace y'all, peace y'all.