HipHop Talks Podcast
Introducing "Hip-Hop Talks Podcast/Media'' - a captivating experience that immerses hip-hop enthusiasts in the boundless world of the genre and its cultural impact. Join hosts Shawn, Coop, and Adriel as they pay homage to the foundations of hip hop, from its origins to the present day with a diverse take on Hip Hop. Shawn, takes you through the boroughs of New York, while Coop provides a provocative, yet daring take on the South’s stake in the Hip Hop game. Adriel brings the unique perspective of Hip Hop through the lens of those that cling onto the lifeline and purity of Hip Hop. Combining their thoughts and views, is liken to your favorite superhero team assembling to lean into each other’s strengths. Through insightful conversations, passionate debates, and meticulous breakdowns, they explore the intricate fabrics of hip hop, including its powerful lyrics, infectious beats, mesmerizing breakdancing, vibrant graffiti art, skillful DJing, and electrifying MCing. "Hip-Hop Talks" is the ultimate destination for fans seeking to deepen their understanding and appreciation of this influential art form. Tune in and become part of the unified community that celebrates the timeless legacy of hip hop.
HipHop Talks Podcast
Should OGs Make Follow-Ups to Classics? Plus Cam/Mase/Elliott Wilson, Hit-Boy, and MORE!
🎵outro music plays🎵. Happy New Year, hip-hop heads. Welcome to Hip-Hop Talks. I did that without stuttering. I feel great. Happy New Year, hip-hop heads. Welcome to Hip-Hop Talks. Ah, I did that without stuttering. I feel great. Happy New Year, motherfuckers. That's right. Well, hold on, hold on. Can y'all see what I'm wearing? Right quick. Can y'all see what I'm wearing? Can I show you what I'm wearing? Yeah, you know, I'm the only guy in Georgia like this, really. But what is that Notre this really? What is that Notre Dame, sir Fighting Irish? Oh yeah, why they beat the brakes off Georgia. First of all, somebody that's a Cowboys fan. You really need to watch your mouth.
Speaker 1:You really, really, really need to watch your mouth as a Cowboys fan.
Speaker 3:My question to you guys, I support the Irish. You know what I'm saying. My girl, she graduated from Notre Dame, so I support the Irish. I could rock with that.
Speaker 1:That sounds actually just like your Bill Cosby number 23 sweater-wearing ass. It sounds like you. When's the last time somebody held Georgia to 10 points, though y'all that is crazy, that is crazy. It's not even that they beat them. It's like they held them to 10 points When's the last time somebody held Georgia to 10 points, Like for real.
Speaker 2:It's been years. It's been years.
Speaker 1:Can we win the national championship? Ohio State looks like they're about to whip everybody's ass they can, they play like that, they can. Yeah, if Ohio State plays their A game, everybody's going home.
Speaker 2:Everybody's going home. Yeah, they had George and number. Nothing you can do about that.
Speaker 3:I'm a Michigan guy. Y'all ain't gonna get me started over here about Ohio.
Speaker 1:State. I mean, ohio State is my pops team. Man, I'm gonna tell you what he starting to hear about Ohio State. I mean, ohio State is my pop's team and I'm going to tell you what you know. He's not the type of guy to call. You know what I'm saying. But I remember one day he called me in 2022, and it's after Ohio State got done, whooping Notre Dame's ass. And what I would really like is to have a championship game where Ohio State and Notre Dame are playing. And you know, my father is getting a little bit older and up there in years and there's nothing more that I would like to do than to talk straight shit to him and whoop Ohio state path. I would love that for me. I would love that for me.
Speaker 2:That'd be crazy. That is crazy Cool.
Speaker 3:I'm happy with anybody being Ohio State, so I'm with you.
Speaker 1:You want to know where I get my petty from? Go talk to him.
Speaker 2:I can see that All right.
Speaker 1:We got a couple super chats already as we get started with this New Year edition.
Speaker 1:Gentlemen Queens, get the money. Happy New Year, gentlemen. 007 in the house. Double O, what up CJ Kidd with a dub. Start off 2025. Good day, fellas. Happy New Year. There's a lot going on. Joey. Gone at Dot and the West. Lord Jamar address, the Hispanic inclusion on the Elephant and Uncle Murders 2024 wrap-up. Can't wait to see your insight. Ill Magic with the 199. Happy New Year, fellas. Peace, Ill Magic. So, fellas, where we want to kind of slide to next, you want to talk about the Joey, you want to talk about the hit. Where are we going? How are you feeling? Click like share, subscribe to us. We are closely approaching 2,000 followers. We do over 2,000 views all the time, but if you don't click like share and subscribe to be a part of this tribe, yeah, run the numbers up.
Speaker 3:This is episode 50. This is a milestone, so in part of me I'm a little under the weather. But yeah, run those numbers up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no doubt, no doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 1:Let's start with hit boy. Okay, ag, I'm gonna let you go ahead and kick it off.
Speaker 3:Tell me what you think about the new hit oh yeah letter, letter to my mentors. You know I'm saying hit boy is always presenting himself as a humble guy in the industry man, and we talked about this a little bit on the last episode. But I think that this is a track that everybody needs to check out because you know I'm a, you know I'm a big person who, uh, who subscribes to pay an homage, you know, to people that helped you along the way, and in our culture that's something you don't see very often. You know what I'm saying Cats be too prideful to give homage to the people that paved the way for them, um, to be where they're at. So you know I'm thankful that hip boy, you know, is not afraid to do that and put out a track, you know, showing love to polo, don kanye nas, amongst others, you know, and it's a dope track, you know I'm saying shout out to hip boy.
Speaker 2:No, no, I love it, man. I love it anytime you can pay homage to those who help you get to where you are. To me, that's just one of the most humble things you can do. Hip boy is a humble guy anyhow. You know the stories about him and Kanye and what happened there and some of the fallout there. But the fact that he still reached back to show love and respect to what Kanye and JV did for his career Of course it was an extension of what he talked about with Nas and just that whole run that they had together and just showing respect to all of that, that just to me. I love that kind of stuff, man, because sometimes you've got to show respect to those who help you along the way, regardless of what. And I love that kind of stuff, man, because sometimes you've got to show respect to those who help you along the way, regardless of what. And I love it. It's a great album, a great song and also a great, great, great, great video. Love the visuals that he put together, love it, nice touch.
Speaker 1:Y'all done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, here comes Mr Hater of 2025, the reigning champ, the reigning champ.
Speaker 1:Did I win, did I?
Speaker 2:win. Yeah, you did. You did by a landslide Day, one Landslide.
Speaker 1:Well, nothing like a repeat champion. I like the record. It's good. Three years in a row Right, triple crown numbers, it's good. Right, triple crown numbers, it's good. It's just good, though, guys. I mean all that waxing poetic that y'all did. Content was nice. It was just good overall. You're not gonna be playing this record in 30 days. It's good, though. Good job by it. No, I fuck with them, like. You know what I'm saying. It ain't even nothing personal. I'm'm just going to continue to be honest about what I hear. It's cool, it's a good record. I do like the video. The video is dope. I do agree with you, gentlemen, about the video. I like you, sean. I feel like people from Hit-Boy's generation are the last generation to really pay homage. I do feel like it's cool that he is paying homage on here. So that's what I'm saying. It's just good, though it's in rotation right now. I don't know how long it's going to be in rotation, though.
Speaker 3:But I mean, we don't know if it's attached to a project. So if it's a project that comes with it, then there's a very good chance we could be listening to it in 30 days. But you know, we don't know if it's attached to anything or if he was just doing this as a gift. You know what I'm saying around the Christmas season to show love to the people that helped him out.
Speaker 1:Might be a Lucy. Might be a Lucy. Might be a project.
Speaker 2:Let's see. I think the attachment to it to me is the most important part. You know what I mean important part. You know what I mean. It's just the sentiment of it is the most important part for me. That's why I appreciate that song more than anything else. You don't see that much in the industry anymore. Everyone want to be self-made, Everybody want to have their own voice and say they got here because of them and for him to reach back like that. To me, the sentiment is the most important part of it.
Speaker 3:And you know, sean, you alluded to it because you know we got the recency bias with the Nas thing. So of course he's going to pay homage to Nas, but for him to go back because he's not where he's at without Kanye and although him and Kanye's relationship isn't the best, you know what I mean. He he's showing an alternative direction. Like who was talking about being Mr Petty? You know he. You know being Mr Petty. You know Hip-Boy could have very well been Petty and been up in interviews or what have you talking spicy about Kanye? But he chose another route to show love and pay the respects that Kanye helped you know what I'm saying build his career.
Speaker 1:I mean, he has taken shots at Ye, though let's not act like that, hasn't?
Speaker 3:happened. I don't look at what he said as taking shots. He just told the truth. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:If it feel like an uppercut, it's usually because you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean, sometimes the truth is a shot. Truth hurts. Yeah, I'm about to say sometimes the truth is a shot, just like stereotypes sometimes can be true. You know what I'm saying. Not all stereotypes are negative. Some of the things actually occur and are problematic in all aspects of all communities. People say Asians can't drive. I was on Beaufort Highway a couple days ago. Definitely getting flagged. Definitely getting flagged. Definitely getting flagged to start the new year. Great way to start. Let's get to some more super chats. Ill Magic with the 999. Shout out to Crimes. I heard on their live stream that Nas and Dot are supposed to drop something together this year. Here we go with this to start. This is what we're doing to start the year. This is what we're doing to start the year. This is what we're doing. This is how you want to spend your money, gentlemen. Any comments? Any comments? Who said?
Speaker 3:that when did?
Speaker 1:he say he saw?
Speaker 3:that the source though Thought crimes.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what that is. To be honest, there's so many different sources out there, man. Everyone wants to be a source to something that's possibly going to happen. I won't believe it until I see it. If you ain't hear it from here, it don't exist. I'll put it like that Everybody's the plug now. Everybody's the plug, everybody, everybody's the plug.
Speaker 1:Everybody's the plug. We're going to talk about that later too. All right, CJ, the Kid with $18. Appreciate you, CJ. Also, Sean, I remember you said that didn't galvanize the West, but most podcasters immediately disagree. Like I said, perception versus reality, Perception greater than reality Also get well, AG. You know CJ's been a little bit spicier lately especially with you two guys.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. It sounds like something that you might say, though.
Speaker 3:CJ. Shout out to CJ. Cj on brand because he be like that in the Discord. Shout out to CJ man.
Speaker 1:He's on brand CJ is spicy in the Discord.
Speaker 3:You would know that if you were there.
Speaker 2:Coop it's 2025. I'm just saying you got a point though.
Speaker 1:I'm going to give the discord 16 bars every week, at least. At least 16 bars every week. I think they're good, I think I'm good shit, coop once again bars every week I think I'm good Shit.
Speaker 3:We got a few more Once again acting like he's a celebrity doing the club walkthrough.
Speaker 1:All I'm saying is when I do come into Discord they'll kick you out the back door. No, play the belly intro, fool. Play my belly intro. Play my belly intro. Play my belly intro. Put it up on the big screen. Put it up when I come through, anyway, img, img, butterfly Spark, the $5 Super Chat.
Speaker 2:First Super Chat.
Speaker 3:What up Eng?
Speaker 1:Eng.
Speaker 3:Eng, she's been with us since the stationhead days. That's an OG right there, oh what up Eng Ing Ing.
Speaker 1:She's been with us since the stationhead days.
Speaker 2:That's an OG right there.
Speaker 1:Oh, what up Ing? Okay, okay, what up BK? I see you. Happy New Year everyone. It's Ing, let's talk Brooklyn boy, joey Badass. It's competitive in this, but he's talking to the public and NYC as well, absolutely. Ooh, we're about to get to that next. As a matter of fact, hold on, let's get to the next couple of super chats and then we need to slide to the Joey badass, unless you all have some more poetic that you like to wax about.
Speaker 2:The hip boy, nah let's get these super chats.
Speaker 1:Show more love no more Corinthians and Leviticus. Okay, do say Falco, $50 in the house. Appreciate you, playa big 50. Happy new year to everyone Appreciate that, bro.
Speaker 3:Salute.
Speaker 1:And Trife One more time Happy new year, everybody Congrats. Try a milestone of one episode for every track on the album. I think that's album. Only try it, man. I think that's great. How's the Muddy Waters 2 staying with y'all? Is the Muddy Waters 2 staying with y'all?
Speaker 3:Absolutely it's pretty dope.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to front Part of me. Now it's too late, but part of me would probably put it in my top 20 now.
Speaker 3:I've been meaning to condense it and cut out tracks. You know, just put like a fire track list together the joints I go back to. But I haven't had a chance to do that yet.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I'd like to hear that when you do that.
Speaker 3:But we're going to talk about that album shortly, anyway, so T2, my man look at T2.
Speaker 2:T2, my man look at T2. T2, crazy.
Speaker 1:I want to say shout out to Jack and your whack ass list. I gave you some shine on Twitter today, jack.
Speaker 3:Your list fucking sucks nah, jack's list was solid bro. I rock with Jack's list over yours, coop man, it was solid.
Speaker 2:I stand with Jack, I stand with.
Speaker 1:Jack. Well, here's the thing about it. Nobody asked either one of you. It was solid, okay, okay. Well, here's the thing about it.
Speaker 2:Nobody asked either one of you.
Speaker 3:I mean, your list is your list.
Speaker 1:You want to know what, as much as this year feels new, this shit feels old to me. All right, let's go to Joey Victory cigar for the Fighting irish who were about to beat ohio state the national championship. In a couple weeks we'll see what happens. So joey badass starts off the year with the rulers back freestyle. Some of these uh bars appear to be barbs aimed at Kendrick in most people's eyes. Sean, tell me how you're feeling about it.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love it. Brooklyn stand up. New York stand up. I saw a lot of people talking about Joey. The Discord was talking about it a lot. I didn't get a chance to engage the Discord like I wanted to, but people need to understand. Joey is a student of hip-hop and I don't think that people really fully fully get the fact that Joey can spit too. He can make music, he's a writer, he's a spitter. He has every right to do what he's doing setting the tone for 2025. And we're going to talk about this a little bit later as part of our other topics and everything. But the fact that people are trying to, you know, downgrade who Joey really is is ridiculous. Can't listen to social media, man. You've got to go out there and listen for yourself. Don't fall into that trap. Joey is a definite spitter, a great writer. He just doesn't have the name appeal as some of his peers.
Speaker 1:I don't agree with that. What do you mean when you say that I don't want to say I don't agree? But can you elaborate upon that a little bit more for me?
Speaker 2:Because they don't talk about him in that pantheon at all. You don't hear Joey name pop up or circulate in that three or him circulate in the top five amongst his peer group, his peer group. They're a little bit more louder with regards to just the love that they're getting from really social media than anything else, and not so much as the craft or the art Joey can fit with the best of them. Don't forget, joey was one of the ones who actually responded back in the day when Kendrick dropped that verse. He was one of the ones that came out there and again, a lot of people they want to lean on to, what they want to lean on to. But I'm glad that he came out, I'm glad that he was able to put some stuff out there. He said what he said. I hope he continues to move the momentum and let's see what happens.
Speaker 3:Let's run it up to.
Speaker 2:Joey.
Speaker 1:AG.
Speaker 3:Just kind of piggybacking off what Sean said. I think part of that, why he's not mentioned with a lot of those guys, is failure to remain in the public eye. You know what I mean. He's not a person who, you know, releases projects consistently, you know what I mean. He kind of drops and, you know, goes away and he never did establish that major core fan base. You know, in my opinion, you know what I mean To build up off of that. But he's definitely a spitter, one of the best ones. I think guys like him and Dave East, uh, you know, don't get enough credit, but um, but yeah, he's repping hard from New York and then we and how can you leave them out If you're talking about some of the best New York uh spitters right now currently, um, you know, outside of Griselda, you know, joey's one of the first names that I would like to think people would run to, but he's been making waves this week, you know, unfortunately, initially it was for a fight that was caught on camera and then after that you got this freestyle.
Speaker 3:So really, joey's name's in the public, you know, more so than I ever think it has been, period. But I like this, I like the sport of it all. Um, you know like you, but you got to be willing to stand on when you, when you say something like that, you know I mean, because, regardless if he was talking to kendrick or addressing the whole west coast, you know you got to be ready for that response. You know, I mean, and I think it's a call to arms for New York rappers. You know what I'm saying. To step it up, you know, to the East Coast. So I think that. But yeah, so you got a lot of West Coast people that you know have something to say about it.
Speaker 1:Hold on. Is Joey top 10? For his era, top 10 what For his era Top 10. What For his era is he top 10? Let's say, from when did Joey pop up About two? He popped up the same time as, like, trav and Kendrick and Cole and all them right Like he's around.
Speaker 3:If you're just talking about spitters, I don't see how he's not in the top 10.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Of his class, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean. So let's say we were like doing like the last 15 years. It's 2025. Now let's go from 2010 to 2025. We have your obvious choices, which I think are Kendrick, Drake, Cole, I think, Future Big Sean got to be in there. I'm with Sean being in there ASAP, I'm putting.
Speaker 3:Joey over ASAP. Mm-hmm, I'm putting Joey over ASAP.
Speaker 1:I prefer ASAP, but I think Joey is the better rapper of the two, even though I prefer ASAP. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:ASAP got more notoriety. He got more star power, but bar for bar I'm taking Joey no no, no, asap's bar work is strong. No. I'm saying but bar for bar, though I'm taking Joey. Yeah, I'm taking Joey.
Speaker 1:I might take him barely, but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:No, that's not a landslide. No, it's not a landslide.
Speaker 1:To be honest with you, for me it's like okay, so let's say that would be 6-7. Who else would you put in Joey's stratosphere other than the guys that we mentioned from his era from?
Speaker 2:his class.
Speaker 1:Crit. Is he better than Crit to y'all?
Speaker 3:to me yes, but it's close it's not a separation there okay, better than Crit, better than Wale to me.
Speaker 2:Yes to me. Yes, Wale probably a me. Yes To me. Yes, Wale probably makes a little bit of more crossover songs, of course.
Speaker 3:But Wale belongs in that 10 as well. But to the point I was getting to everybody you named, it's only two New Yorkers. Yeah. Wale is different.
Speaker 1:Asap and Joey you know what I'm saying, and neither one of them would make the top five most likely, unless you would put one of them ahead of Sean Is Joey better than. Sean.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:Right, I don't think he's better than Sean either.
Speaker 3:But I like what he's doing. He's throwing his ring into the hat though because, like I said, out of all those people, it's only ASAP and Joey really representing the newer class from you know what I'm saying the New York side of things. So I mean, I like what he's doing, but you got to be ready for the repercussions. The same way that Kendrick dropped control, you got to stand on that. You know what I'm saying and all the responses that come with it. So Joey got to be ready for all the stuff that's going to come his way. So you say that stuff intentionally and let's not get it twisted.
Speaker 3:It's an old J-Bar, you know what I'm saying. That really got people tight. You know what I'm saying from 22-2s. So he knew what he was doing when he said that bar, because he's like we're going to revisit this again because this West Coast you know what is happening right now, in 2024, know going into 25 they had the most albums on my top 20 list, and I didn't include larry june's album right, and when jay said it in 96, the west coast was running it.
Speaker 3:So it's like you know if the shoe fits where you know I'm saying, I mean truthfully.
Speaker 1:I mean the, the west actually ran the better part of the 90s until tupac got killed right.
Speaker 3:But you know I'm saying some, some people, they it might rub them the wrong way and joey, like he got to stand on that I'm you know I'm not this discrediting that at all. Like you know, I'm saying for the sport of it. You know, like throw your ring in. Let's put it this way, right, Nobody would even consider Joey badass to like even take shots at Kendrick, or even Because when this whole Drake thing happened, everybody's like well, I'd like to see Kendrick in the game. You know what I'm saying. I'd like to see Kendrick in the Lupe, I'd like to see Kendrick and this person, that person. Nobody was even thinking about Joey, but Joey's like shit. Nobody else will step up. I'll step up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we like the move because it's a good rep move. It's a good competitive move. He's dope enough and nice enough to take these shots into box. Overall, it's a good look because this is what hip-hop is competitively based on I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't think there's nothing behind it. I don't think there's nothing like really. Uh, some people might think it's clout chasey. Some people might think you know I don't think.
Speaker 1:I think he's too big for this to be clout chasey though right.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm saying. I don't think he has an actual problem with Kendrick or anybody on the West for that matter, but I do think he's ready for the sport of it because, like I said, joey is somebody who don't really drop like that, or he drop and he kind of disappear. But if he feel a certain kind of way, if he's sitting on some heat, if he's like saying like yo, you know, I'm here and I'm willing to take out whoever. You know what I'm saying. I'm here and I'm willing to take out whoever. You know what I'm saying, because that the way Joey is rapping is the way we thought Cole was going to be. That's how Cole's talk was for these past few years that you know. That led to the apology no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:Expound upon that a little bit more for me.
Speaker 3:Cole was rapping like anybody. Come at, I'm tearing your head off. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Okay. Okay, so you're saying Joey's approach to this has been what Cole's approach has been, which is what has made people for the better part of the last few years, even without a classic album, until that, he's the best MC based on you know the versatility and array of bars that he's been given on these guest shots.
Speaker 3:Well, cole got a better resume than Joey, because people would tell you Forest Hills Drive is a classic. But he's doing. You know, to me it's very similar.
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean for me, like Cole got three albums better than Joey's best album and we talk about Cole's catalog and how it's not you know maybe sometimes what we like it to be his hip-hop purist, old heads, old head like whatever but I'm.
Speaker 3:But I'm glad you said that coop, because it's like all right, even if cole does got three albums better than joey's best output, that doesn't take away his ability to throw his name out there into the ring for me. You know what I mean. I think anybody should be able to challenge as a contender. You know what I'm saying. You might not be the number one contender, you know what.
Speaker 1:I'm saying On the board no, no, no, no. The fight need to get sanctioned. Because I'm going to tell you what you know. One of the most important things about the takeover is how jay ended it, and it's when he said and for all y'all other cats throwing shots at jiga, y'all only get half a boy y'all talked about this morning what he did, okay.
Speaker 1:So the most beautiful thing about the the takeover isn't even the bars, because in the bars are just vicious, but the perspective is. The most stellar thing about the takeover isn't even the bars, because in the bars are just vicious, but the perspective is the most stellar thing about the takeover. And when he said that he classified himself and declassified those other people like that were like, like, taking those shots. It's like the only person that really deserves this smoke is prodigy. And just because I know who this other guy is and I feel like he might be falling off and he might be having some personal problems and I feel like I might be able to go ahead and take him off the board. Oh no, these dudes deserve these shots. The rest of you dudes, the rest of you dudes don't even deserve shots. Don't even think that we're on the same level. And that's why I was asking you if you think Joey is top 10, because Kendrick's reply might be like hey, hey, don't play yourself. You know what I'm saying. I don't think Kendrick will reply.
Speaker 1:I just want to make sure we feel like Joey is nice enough, I'll tell you this.
Speaker 3:One. I don't think Kendrick replies. I think somebody else from TD or somebody gets at him. I don't think Kendrick comes out for Joey, but what I will. I think Kendrick might treat Joey kind of like how Drake treated Joe Button, but Joe was going directly at Drake. But here's the thing, though. Remember how we, a couple of weeks ago, we had all that talk about like if Wayne and and, uh, dot went at it. Say what I think that Joey's more suited to go at Dot than Wayne is why.
Speaker 1:Because, like, because you know, because I mean I'm saying that, because I mean we all know that like Joey is not Just like that type of talk.
Speaker 3:You know we say you talk heavy Like that type of talk, like and no disrespect to Wayne, I love Lil Wayne, he's just outside of my top ten. But if you're doing that type of talk and you're addressing somebody and you're really trying to take it there, like Wayne, a lot of time a lot of his stuff is not coherent. It's like not one coherent thought. He's all over the place. You know what I'm saying? Joey, that's cool. He's abstract.
Speaker 1:You're right. Right, it's not an excuse, though, man. You can't give that to him.
Speaker 2:Because you can't come out and say that I'm the greatest rapper of all time, I'm this and I'm that, I'm one of them, and then you're going to come back and say that he's too abstract. No, just say what it is. He's not talented enough, he doesn't have enough ammo to shine.
Speaker 3:I don't think it's talent.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's, I'm going to push back, Sean, because your number two rapper of all time is Ghost. How more abstract does it get other than Ghost?
Speaker 2:and Wayne, that's true I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:As far as battling, yeah, but do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:Like Joey would be more surgical and could dissect things. He's more of a classic fundamental battle rapper.
Speaker 3:Right, that's not Wayne. Wayne would be all over the place, man trying to like. Go at somebody, bro Like exactly, I mean he's not he's not. You used this opportunity to be disrespectful. I, before I said what I said. I said no disrespect, and then you take my quote and use it as disrespect. That's great.
Speaker 1:Use every opportunity possible to show disrespect.
Speaker 2:I have that disrespect when I say he doesn't have that.
Speaker 3:You just said Wayne wasn't talented.
Speaker 2:I'm saying Not talented enough.
Speaker 1:You said he wasn't talented enough, but that's still wrong.
Speaker 2:How is that wrong?
Speaker 1:Hold up, hold up you thought the disrespect was at an 8. It's just at a 6.5.
Speaker 2:Okay, so now we're going to do this. Then you guys are saying you're hip-hop heads. What is one of the pillars of hip-hop Storytelling? What else?
Speaker 1:Lyrics.
Speaker 2:The battle right.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. The whole culture itself is actually based off of battling in a creative manner instead of using violence. So battling is part of the core fundamental. Actually, battling is the core fundamental of this culture, even before the rapping occurred.
Speaker 2:Even before the rapping occurred yes, so Wayne cannot be exempt from that. No, no.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying he's exempt.
Speaker 1:Are we exempting him?
Speaker 3:No, sean, I wasn't saying that. My thing with Wayne was it's not that he's not talented enough, I just don't think a coherent thought to craft a track is not in his wheelhouse. A lot of people don't talk about Family Matters enough. The way Drake dismantled like he lost the battle so don't kill me in the chat but the way he picked apart every one of the people he was beefing with he went at like five or six people in that record the way he picked it apart over the course of the Family Matters track I don't think Wayne is capable of doing that.
Speaker 2:So that of the family matters track. I don't think wayne is capable of doing that, so that means okay, but hold on, hold on to do it, and that's not that's not shitting on him at all, no, no, but you want to know what it's limited.
Speaker 1:Here's where. Here's where. Both of you, I think, like, have a point. Somewhere in the middle of of what I just heard is very much the fact that one of the failures I feel like Drake had in the battle against Kendrick is that he actually spent energy on the rest of the guys. True, none of the guys deserved any attention, except for Future, and Future actually should have gotten the same kind of treatment that maybe Nas got on the takeover, where it's really about prodigy.
Speaker 3:But that's the petty, and Drake though, drake's petty though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. I get that, but when you're in a battle, it's the same failure that Jay had. Because when you go back and listen to the takeover, I'm like it still confounds me to this day and I'm like instead of Nas.
Speaker 1:It's like are you really like if you go? Because once you go pull the card it's like no, no, no, like, go ahead and go fam. You know what I'm saying? You can go ahead and Like if the takeover is four verses, the first three verses should have been about Nas, the fourth verse should have been about Prodigy and then the fuck y'all niggas bar at the end, that's how it should have went in terms of how the art of war in terms of winning.
Speaker 3:But in real time. Like Sean said, we thought Nas was killed with the one we Nas fans.
Speaker 2:It's easy to say but who was going at Jay in real time? It was Prodigy. Prodigy was dumping all over Jay. We think HNIC was no, no, no.
Speaker 3:Prodigy is nice enough on the mic.
Speaker 1:He's nice enough on the mic that he deserves the attention. Sean, you probably know this better than I do. There are still people in New York probably around the time that Jay is dropping the takeover that think Prodigy is a better MC than Jay. Yes, there are people walking around like that around that time. Cool.
Speaker 2:In New York.
Speaker 1:Jay had to feel that way.
Speaker 2:Jay had to feel that way Until H&IC didn't do the numbers that it was projected to do. That's when Jay was like, oh, you ain't go.
Speaker 1:I got you. Now you want to know what happened to Prodigy dropped. Keep it, thor it thorough. I can remember, like when he dropped, that like the climate literally had changed like right around the time that dropped. And I think that's part of what happened too, because, as great as the record is, it's like I still look at that and I'm like shouldn't have made that the first single, though like definitely should have dropped it, but it should have been like there should have been a different approach because like it had changed right in front of them.
Speaker 3:We leaving out one key element and this is a nice sidebar but we leaving out one key element. Prodigy played himself by letting them release that on a Rockefeller label. Release the backstage as a single. That's your lead single.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good clue yeah.
Speaker 3:Before H&IC even came out. So then Jay came behind that and, like Jay was playing chess dog, let's call it what it is. Yeah, let's call it what it is. But, sean, to your point though, I do see what you're saying. I agree, I just wasn't trying to be disrespectful about it. But Wayne has the name recognition, the superstar power to go at kendrick. But what I'm saying is joey badass has in his wheelhouse the technical ability to, like you know, I'm saying, really battle and spar on a level that wayne doesn't possess he's also.
Speaker 1:That is very problematic for me, because what you were saying is that in order to beat Kendrick, you actually need Joey Badass' technicality with Lil Wayne's star power, which really does make him boogeyman-like. Are you telling me it's like that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't buy into the whole boogeyman thing until this battle happened To me. There wasn't nothing done before that to really prove it, but he lived up to it.
Speaker 1:There was no bar work. We have quantifiable facts now, don't we?
Speaker 3:Before that I wouldn't say that it was.
Speaker 1:You like that? Don't you Sean how I used quantifiable?
Speaker 3:facts and gave Kendrick props at the same time.
Speaker 1:Look at me growing Trademark. Hey yo Trademark. Hey yo Trademark is wild. Whoa. Did you just PM me when we're doing the same podcast together?
Speaker 2:What in the no, that's for us, that's for us, just in case.
Speaker 1:No, no no, everybody else. Hey, hey, hey, listen God.
Speaker 2:He too said people crashing out on you on other shows and everything. We ain't talk about people in a long time. They still crashing out over cool.
Speaker 3:It's been a long time, it's been like two weeks.
Speaker 1:What we're not still having these issues are we? That's what T2 said.
Speaker 2:I don't want to get sidetracked.
Speaker 3:Let go of this.
Speaker 2:Do y'all think it's all about my wife texting me saying why AJ says he's incoherent? You're talking about? I'm hating him. You say Wayne is incoherent.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of that was the drugs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but who fault is that? It's bad's bad.
Speaker 1:Stop doing drugs, I mean okay this is my thing with the drugs. When a painter, like when Picasso has like one of his, his periods and does, like you know, abstract art, or when Salvador Dali, you know, melts freaking watches you know, melts freaking watches, you know, on canvas in real time, and stuff like that, and it's influenced by drugs, you know, and it's like we don't have a problem when it's like in that form, but when Wayne does it it is not as brilliant because I equate it to like very much to what Salvador Dali does as a painter when Wayne kind of like goes on his abstract rants.
Speaker 3:Wow, I don't think we get some of the metaphors that we got from Wayne.
Speaker 2:You gotta pick a side.
Speaker 1:You know, like when he says shit like like you know, come on, baby, let the car to make you toss you like a fruit, salad, strawberry grape. You're like when he says stuff like that, it's like it's not your typical fundamental technical bar that a Joey badass is going to give, but it is thoughtful and abstract and it does offer something different to the game and you do have to respect that. And even with all that said, who's to say he would approach the battle that way? So check it okay.
Speaker 2:So now you're talking about I'm just playing devil's advocate you're talking about weight class at this point now, because I mean, every fight there's a weight class. So what it's saying to me? You guys are saying that joey might not be in k dot's weight class based on popularity, right he?
Speaker 3:is not on, mike, he's not, he's not right.
Speaker 1:And it's funny because I'm hearing y'all tell me that Wayne isn't the really heavyweight MC in the ring that Kendrick is, which actually makes me think.
Speaker 3:That's why I got Kendrick ranked higher than Wayne.
Speaker 1:I was about to say, and I actually have Wayne one slot ahead of Kendrick, which makes me think y'all think Kendrick is better than Wayne.
Speaker 3:I do.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't agree.
Speaker 3:I mean, there's not a whole lot of separation between the two of them.
Speaker 1:I have them right next to each other.
Speaker 3:What I value more in an MC? Kendrick Possess is over, Wayne.
Speaker 1:See, that's the thing about it. How about this, how about this? Of all the all-time great MCs, wayne is probably the biggest outlier, style-wise, even from Ghost, because Ghost does have the New York fundamentals that I think you guys are talking about. I call them New York fundamentals because it's where hip hop was originated. I'm not saying that to like you know, like saying that it's only like exists there. Like you know, the fundamentals of the culture started there. The fundamentals of the culture started there, and so Ghost does have fundamental tendencies, has an MC, even throughout all the abstract rants, and it can get very, very abstract with Ghost too.
Speaker 3:But Ghost is a great storyteller, as is Kendrick. That's something. That's a box that Wayne doesn't check. I agree.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think Ghost is a top five storyteller. I think Ghost is a top five storyteller. I think Ghost is a top five storyteller. I think Ghost is a top five storyteller. I don't even know if I would have Wayne in the top 20, and I probably would have Kendrick in the top 10 at this point. So that's fair.
Speaker 3:And then the battle box that we're talking about. Kendrick has that checked in spades. And then Wayne doesn't.
Speaker 2:Again, there's a lot of boxes that we're talking about. He's not checking. There's no discography. Again, there's a lot of boxes that we're talking about.
Speaker 3:He's not checking.
Speaker 1:Discography. I'm going Kendrick. I don't know if I'm doing that. I feel like the discography is more of a draw.
Speaker 3:Even now, are you counting the mixtapes, mixtapes, it'll go to Wayne?
Speaker 1:No, I'm saying, are you counting mixtapes when you're talking, the discography? No, I'm just talking about retail discography.
Speaker 3:You're talking to discography? No, I'm just talking about retail discography. But they both got hits and this is a nice sidebar conversation, but lyricism, I think you have to pick Kendrick right.
Speaker 2:I mean I don't see how you're going to take your worst moral theory.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let me submit a couple things to you. I do agree that Kendrick is the better storyteller. Yeah, are you sure he's the better lyricist are you?
Speaker 3:I mean I would put my money on it okay, like okay.
Speaker 1:So where do you have like evidence of that? Because Wayne does have bar work. That is like this is what I keep on saying no, no, no. Wayne has had Rhyme of the Year. Worthy stuff, wayne is a beast.
Speaker 3:Wayne is a beast. A lot of years, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:Hold on, aj. Listen to what I'm saying. Not a few years. Think about how long Wayne's been rapping. There have been a lot of years where Wayne has had rhyme of the year, contender verses, and Kendrick does not have that.
Speaker 3:So I'm sure he's a better lyricist. But I go back to my initial coherent statement and how it's like pieced together, like would you pull any Wayne verse and say he has a joint like nostalgia. How that was coherently pieced together and still made lyrical bar work and all that. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Oh, as far as like a guest appearance, like a 16?.
Speaker 3:It could be on his own album. It don't have to be a guest appearance. I'm just saying, like you know, I'm just asking because I can't think of none off the top of my head.
Speaker 1:I get what you're saying. Something where he approaches it like like scheme and theme wise and it makes the coherent point all make sense at the end, like like. In a very brief a brief way to stitch together.
Speaker 3:That's why I said that's kind of needed in the realm of a battle.
Speaker 1:I think. I think. I think OK, so. So I think Kendrick might be a better writer, but I don't know if he's a better lyricist. That's what I'm saying. Writer, but I don't know if he's a better lyricist. That's what I'm saying and I'm not saying that I think For me I would call it a draw on the lyricism, but I would give Kendrick the edge on writing because he's a better storyteller, has more thought-provoking content.
Speaker 3:Well, wayne can lean on the fact that he doesn't write. So there you go. I mean, you get what I'm saying, though.
Speaker 1:No, but I'm saying like I mean, he said he does it right, so let's say that it's like okay, so who's the more charismatic character? Oh, easy, Wayne. Okay, who's? The better guest appearance artist.
Speaker 2:Come on now, Wayne.
Speaker 1:Wayne.
Speaker 2:He got more to pull from.
Speaker 3:Kendrick doesn't have enough.
Speaker 1:Who's the bigger icon with more kids in the game?
Speaker 3:Definitely Wayne.
Speaker 1:And so that's why hold on, listen to what I'm saying. I'm only saying this because the reason that I have them so close is that there are boxes that Kendrick checks over Wayne. I acknowledge those, but Wayne also has boxes that he checks over, kendrick. Let's not go to hits. Let's not go to hits.
Speaker 3:It's not a lot of separation, because I got Kendrick at 10 and Wayne is my number 11. So it's not a lot of separation.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I have them like 11 and 12. So I have Wayne at 11 and Kendrick at 12. But it's also one of those things too, that if we were to do a versus, it's like go ahead and take Kendrick over Wayne if you want. So you are in all kinds of trouble.
Speaker 3:That would be a hard day for Kendrick. That would be a hard, long day for Kendrick.
Speaker 1:That man has so many hits and bangers. Hits and bangers and also listen to what I'm about to say, works within the realm of a group better, because started off doing group work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but let's go back to the original point. Even with that said, with them two being close in the MC rankings, don't y'all agree that Joey would be better, even though he's not in the weight class? Don't you think with his skill set, he's better equipped to get in the ring with Kendrick if it came down to?
Speaker 2:that Bar for bar, round for round, without social media involved.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's a nice caveat, because social media will remind him that he's not in the wake class.
Speaker 2:He's not going to get the popular vote.
Speaker 1:I lost the super chat on my thread. Sean Pull up the chat.
Speaker 2:We got several actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, run the super chatsats right quick. Yeah, let's get to the superchats.
Speaker 2:Let me go to the last one. We got CJ the Kid.
Speaker 1:Glasses, Malone Dialet AD from Community and Hitta J3 already responded to joey, though malone already saying it's a diss to the whole west coast so be it that's what I was about to say.
Speaker 1:So be it. What's the next one? Cj the kids speaking of the west. Thanks for another 20. Cj speaking of the west.
Speaker 1:You guys consider dochi and scissor west coast artists due to tbe similar to how they considered rage and corrupt west coast artists because of Death Row. Well, corrupt actually spent time in California because he went to high school with Snoop, if I'm not mistaken, because they battled when they were in high school. So I believe Corrupt actually spent some time in Cali. Now, I know Rage is from Virginia. I believe Snoop found Rage when he was. I believe Snoop found Rage when he was on tour and although Rage has repped Death Row, rage has never really repped the West and, if you'll notice, was never involved in any of the East Coast West Coast conflict, and part of that is because she's from Virginia and has always really actually repped that.
Speaker 1:She's just down with Snoop. She's down with Sno snoop, she's down with snoop. She's down with death row via snoop, but really like her, her affiliation is via snoop, but she reps va outside of like snoop and whatever it is that snoop got going on. So, yeah, let's go. We got more super chats. Okay, that's where I'm at cj the kid chat. Said game is making 700 bars and running for Joey as we speak. That's nasty, nasty word. I can see that. I actually can't see that. That's wild. The Raisin Head, joey, or 38? 38 fairly easily has an MC. In my opinion, I like the way 38 talks more than I like the way Joey talks. Joey's better lyrically, man, I'm going to just call it what it is Joey's better lyrically man.
Speaker 2:I'm going to just call it what it is Joey's better lyrically. Yeah, you got to respect Joey man.
Speaker 1:Joey's put in the work that I'm going to give him the advantage because of the work, but 38's coming, guys, he's nice 38's, fly with it.
Speaker 3:But I think Joey digs a little bit deeper. I think just his lyrics yeah, it's more to him.
Speaker 2:He's a student of hip-hop.
Speaker 3:I don't want to say 38 is surface level, but Joey does more with the pen bro.
Speaker 1:We'll see what happens in the next couple of years. I think that was an interesting question, even though I'm still going to give Joey the advantage as well. Raising head again with the $4.99 super chat. Abstract is Ghost saying that he was just making up ish for Supreme clientele In 2001,. Prodigy wasn't nice enough to spar with Dre J. $95 to $2,000, yes, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:But we didn't know that until it happened. We saw the fall off in real time. We.
Speaker 2:We saw the fall off in real time.
Speaker 1:We did Right Like that super chat. That's a revisionist history super chat yeah. Because, no, there are people that felt like Prodigy was as nice or nicer than Jay.
Speaker 2:It happened.
Speaker 3:Remember, Murder Music is 99. Murder Music is 99. Hnic although it's not like a classic record or nothing, is 2000. Nobody was saying in 2000, when we went into 2001, Yo, Prodigy, not like that. Nobody was saying that that's why Jay got so Infamy was the first we heard of that.
Speaker 2:And that's why Jay got-. That was months after.
Speaker 1:Months and months after.
Speaker 2:Right, right. It's easy to say it now, but that's why Jay got applauded so hard because he went at Prodigy, he put the stuff on the Summer Jam screen.
Speaker 3:That's why Jay became a real threat, because it felt like Prodigy wasn't killing the joints on QB's funds.
Speaker 2:He's killing everything. He's killing everything.
Speaker 3:Killed everything on.
Speaker 2:QB's funds Killed everything on QB's funds and we have one more.
Speaker 1:CJ Everything on QB's finals we have one more CJ. The Kid Jack said Joey vs Dot is like Jaheim vs Usher Jack is crazy man.
Speaker 3:First of all, he's crazy, that's not wrong. Yo, yo yo.
Speaker 1:Jack, jack, I got a pod name for you Wild Takes and Whack Lists with Jack. There we go, wild Takes and Whack Lists with Jack. There we go, wild Takes and Whack Lists with Jack.
Speaker 3:Jack, you're not wrong, but you're wild for that analogy.
Speaker 1:You can have that one for free, Jack you can have that one for free. Jack's a wild boy.
Speaker 3:He really is.
Speaker 1:Speaking of a wild boy, guys Elliot Wilson.
Speaker 2:Wild.
Speaker 1:What Esco say. These are our heroes. These are our heroes. First of all, I don't want you all to say anything. I'd like to take a moment and have a little soliloquy time.
Speaker 3:Let's go. You know, with Cooper Justice, jensen's glasses is going to be some shit yeah you know, when he takes his glasses off, he don't see anything.
Speaker 2:So that's when he's zoning out. He's like daredevil, he's just like so in awe of his hate right it's like when Cyclops takes off his glasses the hate just goes everywhere.
Speaker 1:You don't see anything like Daredevil, he's just a bunch of so much hate so all I'd like to say is is that I tried to tell you, niggas, I tried to tell you about him. I've been saying you about him. I've been saying this about his hateness for a couple of years, and you know what I've been called A hater. That's because a hater knows a hater when he sees one. I know, I know when I'm dealing with a hater.
Speaker 3:So you're not denying the allegations on yourself, you're just saying that like Hold on, hold on when I'm dealing with a hater. So you're not denying the allegations on yourself, you're just saying that.
Speaker 2:I told you.
Speaker 1:I'm a hater, hold on, hold on. Especially when I put the glasses on, I see, oh, I'm like, oh, that is big hate right over there. And all I've been saying the entirety of this time is like this guy used to be a journalist and now he's a media personality, and now all's a media personality. And now, all of a sudden, two years later, everybody want to pop up and have a journalist versus media personality-ass conversation based on this drunk hating-ass nigga that I said was a hating-ass nigga and not only a hating-ass nigga. A hating-ass nigga done bit a lot of my shit too. Now, he may not have liked how I've executed. That doesn't mean take my shit because you don't like how I execute. That is neither here nor there, hey there, I thought just a light actually let y'all have it today.
Speaker 1:This ain't about me, alright, definitely about me, okay. Definitely about me, okay, definitely about me. I hate this, but somebody needs. Somebody needs to tell him, yo, to write an article and maybe get off of, uh, the camera. You know so much. Those are my thoughts. Maybe write an article, maybe get back to the core of what made you who you are. I can always count on AG to break down the intricacies, so I just like to give synopses at this point. Ag, go ahead, I'll be honest.
Speaker 3:I've never been. Now, granted, I was a fan of Double XL, but once I got to learn who Elliotiot was, I never really liked him as a personality. You know what I mean. He has his allegiances and he, you know, does a lot of tap dancing for, like you know, certain people gets a little too giddy around certain rappers for me. You know what I'm saying. So, like, I've never been a big fan of his.
Speaker 3:But for who he is, to the culture and the era that he established himself during, and you know who now is an og status, it's kind of disappointing to see him move like this. You know what I mean for people, you know, to have comeuppance and then you're hating on how they're getting it. Like, you have to evolve, you know what I mean. So it's like, yeah, you got more competition in this sphere now, but you have to evolve and make yourself dope all over again. You know, don't hate on the next man because of how they're getting it. You know what I'm saying. Like, if anything, he should be praising what Cam and Mase are doing because, being a journalist and covering them in hip hop, he should be saying yo, I'm proud of you, brothers, we're transitioning into a secondary career after you hung the microphone up, but instead they like OK, you eating off of my plate or whatever. You know I'm saying it's just really hater like, and it's disappointing. He should be congratulating those guys. Take that picture down, sean. He should be. He should be congratulating those guys. And uh and he, I don't know it. For me it was more disappointing than anything to hear him talk that way and shout out to Roy and Maul and I think the lady's name is Damaris on there. They were really firing those tough questions at him. They was telling him straight up to his face like yo, bro, you sound like a hater. You know what I mean. And they was really, you know, holding his feet to the fire on the pod.
Speaker 3:But I don't know, and you know Cam, cam, once he, you know Cam ain't going to stop. You know what I'm saying. He's going to keep applying pressure. You know what I'm saying to Elliot. But you know the thing that I like that they brought up on the pod is how are you getting mad at rappers who have relationships with other rappers, that lending to them getting certain interviews and so on and so forth? How are you hating on them now for their relationships, getting them interviews. When you use to leverage your relationships to get interviews over other journalists. You know what I'm saying. Now that somebody else is doing it, you have a problem with it. So it's I don't know, bro, it's just nasty work to move like that and I think he's going to suffer behind this. You know what I'm saying Because I mean, a lot of people looked at him as corny anyway, but I think this is going to be another blemish on his jacket for real.
Speaker 2:Look corny anyway, but I think this is going to be another blemish on his jacket for real. Look, man, you said you were disappointed. He is who he is, you know. And, at the end of the day, I'm glad he mentioned Cam, because Cam ain't going to stop, you know, and someone needs to check him. Here's the thing, fellas, about the journalist versus the media personality, and I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way. Before I get into that, shout out to the chat. We got one of the best chats in the pie game. You guys are very active, we argue, we disagree, but we show love. So we appreciate the chat, first and foremost, and thank you for the super chats as well.
Speaker 1:But what I want to say, is the thing about Elliot?
Speaker 2:you know he's a journalist and a lot of journalists have lost the. I don't know what happened to Coop. I think Coop didn't want to hear this conversation because Coop think he's a journalist. Sometimes the journalist thing is dead, because what you listen to on a podcast, then you listen to someone that you can gravitate to and unfortunately and sometimes fortunately no one cares about the facts anymore. They don't care about what's right and what's wrong. They want to care about the entertainment piece of it. Right. And people throw the word journalism out there so loosely. And it's not such animal. There's no such animal as a journalist anymore. Anyhow, even when Eliot was, you know, in the major game of journalism in his heyday, he was one of those that kept the information sacred, meaning there was information that he withheld just to be able to spin the narrative in the favor of who they wanted to protect, right? So now you're talking about, journalistic integrity is already compromised.
Speaker 2:He's spitting right now, bro, I'm just saying so if the journalistic integrity is compromised in print from whoever else, then you're only doing it a different way than what they're doing today. So now you've got social media personalities. You've got Cam, you've got Maze, you've got Coop, you've got others out there, even local pods out there, who are doing their thing, those in the same spirit of real. Everyone has a personality that you gravitate to. People gravitate to Coop because they want to hear Coop say some outlandish wild stuff. They want to see Coop say certain things that get under their skin but they still pull up so they can argue with Coop. Right, that's a personality.
Speaker 2:That doesn't mean that Coop's going to be and going, interviewing and getting notes and everything from different artists or different people just to come back out here and say, well, I got this scoop on this, this and this. He's sharing his opinion as a fan of hip hop. All of us in this space, we are part of the body of hip hop, so we have an opinion. So now what's happening is the journalists, who only had the voice in the game at one point because they had the power of the pen, meaning they were writing these reviews on albums and they were saying who doing what when they were doing all of that. They were the only voice, but now you've got others out there in the space that's sharing their opinion, and their opinion is being heard by the masses.
Speaker 2:That makes you a threat, and that's where elliot is at right now. He's threatened because his voice no longer matters. His voice is just another voice in the sea of people so do you mind if I share something?
Speaker 1:you mind if I share something honestly with you, gentlemen, and I love, I love everything that you just said, sean, and I was like, while I was getting like reset up, I was was listening to you on the iPad talk. Still, I just muted it, like when I pulled back up. So I was listening to everything you were saying while I was gone and you're like 100% spot on. I'm not joking when I'm exaggerating when I'm saying this. Is you why? Because I'm a writer by trade and by nature and by gift from God, and so I know why. I know specifically why his ego is getting in the way and causing all of this. Because I can't front.
Speaker 1:Cam and May started their pod. I was thinking like them. I was like that's another rap dude, like taking up space in this space that I'm trying to make a name for myself in. And here's the thing about it, though my intent was never to make a name for myself in this space. I am a writer by trade the podcast that the other network has started based on an article that I wrote. Guys, my original intention Sean you will love this was to be the ghostface killer of hip-hop writers. I didn't want anybody to see my face or know my name. I was writing under my middle name. That's why, if you ever see my stuff, pull up on Google or anything, it says Colin Daymar. Those are my middle names. I never intended for anybody to know. Armand Cooper the plan was to write under my writing handle and do it that way.
Speaker 1:He is somebody like I'm in this space because I wrote something and we got more traction for me talking about it, to me writing about it. He is somebody that has traction based on the things that he has written and built, and so he has an avenue. Quite frankly, how about this? Not that he has a different avenue that you and I or any of the three of us has, but let's keep this shit funky. We're more still like on a two or three lane road and he's operating on a super highway.
Speaker 1:He doesn't have to be a media personality. He is chosen to be a media personality because, quite frankly, there's more money in doing that now than there is in writing. Let's call a spade a spade. So this is a financial decision, because if it was about the game and it was about the integrity of the game and we wouldn't even be having this journalist versus media personality conversation, because he, much like me, is a journalist by trade and way more people know about his journalistic writings than mine, like, by literally millions and leaps and bounds.
Speaker 1:And so there is somebody like me that sits in the same space with him now, that really never wanted to sit in this space, like, would prefer to have be writing for something the caliber of a double excel and be married to somebody who ends up being the editor-in-chief of vibe magazine. You get what I'm saying and it's like. No, like those of us who are black journalists, you have had a path and a life that most of us envy, so watching you go out like this is just nasty, literally nasty, like, really Like. When you don't have to do this, you just need to tap back into your pen, nigga, because people already Really, it's not respected anymore.
Speaker 2:This pen is not respected anymore.
Speaker 1:I would rather I mean this wholeheartedly If I could get the same traction writing four to eight articles a month as I do doing podcasts. I probably wouldn't be doing podcasts, guys, because writing is really my passion. I'm not being funny about it, just in terms of personal preference. If my writing was doing the same thing that the podcast was doing, I probably wouldn't be doing the podcast, the podcast was never the intent.
Speaker 1:anyway, and quite frankly, to give the other guy some credit, the podcast also wasn't my idea. He did pick up the phone and call me one day and ask if I wanted to talk about it. I didn't call him asking to talk about this shit because the plan was to be Ghostface Killer Schema.
Speaker 3:Actually, well, to you know, cap off what both of you said. You know made some good points. Let's look at the life elliot chose, because if we're talking about real journalism, the a journalist's job would you know sean spoke to journalistic integrity is to report the facts and then when you choose to like go over and be a media personality, then you leave that behind because you know I'm saying we're all, like Sean said, talking heads and we're just giving opinions. We're just a bunch of cats that love hip-hop giving our opinions, you know. And then people you know we're gracious to have you here pull up and listen to us, but that in and of itself is not journalism. It's not true journalism. So, and then you know you said you wanted to be Ghostface Killer Coop.
Speaker 3:I was talking earlier about how Elliot is looked at like the corny dude. He probably would have did himself a better service because he had built up this legend behind his pen in print media, but when he chose to step out from behind that and become a media personality on the camera and doing all that is when, like you, hurting your own brand, in my opinion, and he probably feels like he needed to do that for the rap radars and all that stuff of the world. But in my opinion, you hurt your brand and how people looked at you and held you up in this game, because everybody shouldn't be in front of the camera. And I'm not going to sit here and act like I should be in front of the camera, because this is something that was presented to me as well. You know what I'm saying, because I was just a fan of this. But he made the choice of himself to be in front of the camera and be a media personality. So this is the life he chose and if he losing that's his fault so ag.
Speaker 1:So now, let's okay. So now I want to get into a psychological component of this, and and and, and. You'll understand this too. Both of you will. Most writers are fucking nerds at the end of it, guys like at my core. Oh no, I'm just a nerd, nerdy guy like, and here's what I mean. I'm a nerdy guy if I could literally just spend my time reading books and writing and that's all I would do. I'm completely okay with that and I know know that there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1:No, there's nothing wrong with that. Now, due to life circumstances, environmental situations, family that I come from, on both sides, oh, this is what you get. You know what I'm saying, but at the core we prefer to be that, and sometimes when a writer steps outside of a writer's box part of why most great writers are great writers because the person isn't the type of person that fits into a box, that a socialite would fit into, and that's what being a media personality requires. It's like and even I've had to accept some things. It's like oh no, I might have a better personality than a better pen and that's maybe why the podcasting thing took off way quicker than the writing thing did, even though I still do the writing thing. You get what I'm saying. He needs to accept that, because he is a corny nerdy-ass guy, that the media personality thing. Accept that, because he is a corny nerdy-ass guy, that the media personality thing doesn't work as well as the dope hip-hop writer thing and somebody needs to tell him that's all.
Speaker 2:That's all that needs to happen. I think he knows it, coop. I just think that when people are that so corny, they can't change from that. You can't change corny right, because the industry ties that he has he could easily put himself in position, let those relationships that he made let them talk. He don't have to be a personality, he can just honestly be someone to have a platform to bring all the connections that he's had. He can do. He can do shows on double excel and why they went the routes that they went and why they were, uh, catching up with the source and all of those things. When you're, like you said earlier, as a writer, even I used to write a lot when I first joined the military to write. I had a journal, used to always write, whether it was lyrics, poems, it was my way of getting all of my emotions from the military out.
Speaker 2:It was my way of communicating to myself. In that moment I built an ego because when I started realizing I could write and I knew the power of words and how to sway conversations, it was like I got the. I got the bargaining power. Now I can have any conversation and get myself out of that conversation or whatever that may be.
Speaker 1:So this, this is what I mean. No, no, no, no. So this is what I mean about his ego. So sean andrew will tell you this.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'll never forget being in 10th grade when they actually published like my first piece in the high school newspaper and people started walking up to me. I was a freshman. People didn't. I didn't know nobody. You know what I'm saying. I came from the hood on on from West Boulevard, I was off babies. For people that know Charlotte know that I was going to a different high school than everybody went to middle school with. So I knew very few people.
Speaker 1:And so I can remember what happened to my ego as a writer when people confirmed me and that was just me being in a high school fucking newspaper, which is where I met Andrew. Actually, shout out to Andrew, andrew can tell you all of this stuff. It's like, oh, no, no, no. That ego fed me into the writer that I am. So I know what type of ego that guy has for the level that he's operating on, and it's like you'd rather go out like this than fade into that, into the sunset, because let's call it what it is too Well, a rapper's life. Shelf life has been extended, but most like most rapper's shelf life has been extended. Well, not everybody's having the same shelf life extension of a career, though, and the same thing is for these journalists, her media personalities, and his is looking like it's going out bad, am I wrong?
Speaker 3:no, and and I, I think I came up with the answer in real time while we're talking. But to your, to your point, coop, and I want to ask you a question first. Uh, well, you know, shout out to my son, because I see what you're saying, coop, because this my son's senior year of high school and he was writing for his school newspaper. He doesn't have an ego behind it, but you know, I could just tell by the way he took pride in what he wrote, that it was something that was real gratifying to him, and I would read his articles and I would be real proud as a dad. I'm like yo, that's dope. I didn't even know that's something he had in him. You know what I mean, and it made me proud. So you know, shout out to my son, because he really did a good job at that and he's good at what he does with it. But the question I want to ask is if you saw, anything with Elliot.
Speaker 1:How many times have you watched?
Speaker 2:it for him and his personality, versus who he was talking to or talking about Like, how about this? Let's go Good question.
Speaker 1:This is one of those things. Okay, he uses the cachet that he built as a writer to get him His clout, has a media personality. So the play is smart, but this is what I mean about it looking proper. Oh, he was on Boulder Crest with young Nutty a couple years ago when nutty was blowing up. That's east atlanta.
Speaker 1:My homegirl shot a shot a. The artist y'all done seen shot a before. Yeah, okay, so we're nutty and 21 shot a video and the texaco and all that where ellie did the interview. Oh no, shot a, stay right across the street. It's like, oh no, I'll be over there.
Speaker 1:Like like all the time, ell, ellen can't pull up over there. I can barely pull up over there and I'm from there and have people that literally right around the corner right there and I got to watch how I pull up around there. There is something about it that's inauthentic, if you know. You know because, think about it I was raised on the east side down here, got friends all around that area be down there with them all the time, and even I got to watch how I move when I'm on that corner specifically, I just I just literally had a conversation with a homie. We was watching the nutty video and he's like yo coop. He's like that's the most dangerous texaco in atlanta. And this is from somebody that's from the south side of atlanta saying that yeah, he, this is.
Speaker 3:This is what I figured out while we've been talking. We we described him as the corny guy. The difference is, when he made his comeuppance, writing for double xl, you're the corny guy, but in that era all the cool rappers had to come to you to get their stories out. You know what I'm saying. So the corny guy has a purpose. All the rappers that have the cash they have to come to you to get everything to the public. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:But now, in the modern era, you don't need a print media journalist to get the story out. The artists can stream themselves. You know what I'm saying. You got social media. You got other people who are more interesting and more charismatic that can talk to the artists maybe another artist themselves and they can share a conversation that you can't have.
Speaker 3:It's just like the conversation, like you know, if Charles Barkley is interviewing another basketball player, they're a part of a fraternity that another journalist can't understand, like a Skip Bayless can't get on there and like have that kind of vibe and that level of conversation with another athlete. So it rubs them the wrong way and I think that's what Elliot going through now. Like you know, I was the corny guy that all the people had to come to me to get the word out. Now they don't have to come to me no more, because they can go to anybody and everybody who's a little bit more charismatic than I am and then get their story out there. So what purpose do I have in this realm? And he's having trouble finding his way this realm. And he's having trouble finding his way, but instead of like being inventive and you know what I'm saying and like going back to the drawing board.
Speaker 1:He's just hating. No, well, this is what I mean, is it? Well, this what I've kind of been saying for the last couple years? Well, he's actually been hating the whole time because, you know, the lane that he's filling guys is actually ours, because he doesn't have the cachet to pull those artists anymore. Because of his cachet, the younger artists will. His people can get in contact with them and they'd be like well, you know who that is. He started double excellent and now a young and up and carmen artist.
Speaker 1:So what he is doing is he's using his notoriety as a writer and as a founder of publications to transition into the media personality realm by getting the up and coming artists to gravitate towards him because of the cachet that he built in the realm as a writer and entrepreneur, not as a media personality. So we're getting exposed to a new character who we are not familiar with because you all know this is writers as well, and you can probably ask your son this from the writing that he's done. Oh no, writing writers have characters within themselves like that's what I mean is like I mean and you guys talk to me behind the scenes more than I let most people in, and even more so with andrew, it's like, oh no, I'm not, not even like this off the camera 90 of the time. You know what I'm saying. I look at it from the perspective of even doing this podcast. It's like, oh no, I have a personality, I have a character on this show, you know.
Speaker 3:And that's very true. And you brought up the young people who and this is an honest question, I don't know the answer to it. It just popped in my head uh, uh, up-and-coming rapper in 2025. How much reverence do you think they even have for the source in double xl?
Speaker 1:no. So I mean, the industry works kind of like. It's like one of those things. Okay. So when I came into the hospitality business, in at there used to be this guy, pano, and he started this restaurant called Pano's and Paul's and you know they pretty much started the fine dining culture in Midtown and Buckhead in Atlanta in the late 70s, early 80s. Okay, and so for me, when I am coming into the business and coming back from California, it's 2006 and Pano is coming into an establishment that I'm working at. That is the talk of. You know, he's a legend. You get what I'm saying. And so the industry works, that the rap industry works in that same way. It's like oh no, no, no, I didn't work with him. He was literally building this shit out before I was born and when I was an infant. But when I was in this and I was in my mid-20s and he was coming through the building, it's like oh no the whole building was like shaking because of the legend.
Speaker 1:It's like knew who he was and, you know, got a chance to sit and talk with him one time which was like really, really dope, and that's just one of those things, and that's what I'm saying. Elliot's cachet, as far as being a hip-hop journalist is concerned, is like that. It is so, even if the guy doesn't know, even if the guy doesn't know, oh, somebody on his team knows and it's like, oh, no, no, no, that's a good look for us.
Speaker 1:We need to do that Because the artist might be like, who this old nigga Be like? Oh, no, no, no, that's the dude that. Did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did. What my uncle?
Speaker 3:used to tell me about Okay, bet, okay, do that Bring him down to the neighborhood.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying. I had a homie make sure everything's straight, and then it happened.
Speaker 2:But cool. That's the thing. He became a caricature of himself over the years Because you're talking about someone who may have had respect at some point, because they probably felt like he had to have the respect, but over the years he started doing some funny things. So now you become a caricature of who you were. And again I know we got to move on from this. I'm going to say it like this and I don't want I hope no one takes this the wrong way Any pop space.
Speaker 2:You know it's a privilege and it's an honor to be able to come on camera and talk hip hop with two good dudes and I don't take that lightly. You know I told AG and I even told you when you and I first started talking. I never wanted to get on camera. I never wanted to share stories that I know that could go viral. But out of respect for those stories, there's nothing to talk about for those stories for the public consumption. There's nothing to talk about for those stories for the public consumption. But you have, you know, characters out there, you have personalities out there who think that this is the career of careers, where they only get a few thousand subscribers and a few thousand likes and all of these things. And that's where you have me, with someone like Homeboy, like Elliot.
Speaker 1:So so this is what I mean. So when you say that, sean, my immediate thought when you said that was that I've probably only told about 10% of the stories that I've had since I've been doing the pod over the last four years. I could easily do this for about 20 years without sharing all of my stories. Think about the stories he has and how much writing material he has based on these stories, like he could be literally writing short stories to these publications based on a conversation he had with jay and when the 40 40 40 club opened and he got invited to the. You get what I'm saying. It's like he has some.
Speaker 1:He has such a plethora of hip-hop history at his fingertips If you were to put a pen or a keyboard in front of it instead of that, maybe he gets back into the habit, because although it is like hey, how about this? It's like you know how they say it's like riding a bicycle Well, it's like, oh no, you can get on a bicycle and ride it again once you've ridden a bicycle before, but it ain't the same if you ain't ridden a bicycle in a while. And really what needs to happen is he needs to get back on that riding bicycle, because that's where his star really shines, that's where he is a legend to us. He is not a legend as a media personality, he is a legend as a journalist.
Speaker 3:But to be fair to, be fair, our era, and maybe a little bit after us, are the only ones checking for print media. Like you know, you get into this younger age group. I don't think they're checking for print media.
Speaker 1:He's significant. He is notably older than us, and so even having his demographic in our age bracket, which is a step below his, is still viable enough to make yourself viable. We have made ourselves viable with way less.
Speaker 3:Right, but I'm not saying it's totally dead, because we scroll all day long and I read articles on the Internet. But real talk, when was the last time you bought a magazine?
Speaker 2:It's a dying magazine, it's a dying IP, it's nothing.
Speaker 1:But he is one of those guys that can thrive in that dying environment because he is a hip-hop legend and icon. As a hip-hop journalist, he is one of the people he's grandfathered in, and so how about this? The county that I live in doesn't allow happy hour. Okay, there are a couple of places that open. If you opened a place before 1990 in this county, you're allowed to have happy hour, because that's when they changed the drinking laws. About the happy hour, he is although that these laws and these rules have changed his grandfathered in because of how long he been in establishment in an entity as a journalist, and so the rules that we are talking about that apply in this modern day game. They do not apply to a select few, and he actually is one of those select few. That's the part about it that makes it nasty work. It's like you know this shit don't apply to you, right?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think we're saying two different things. You're saying he needs to fall back on what made him great. What I'm saying is like podcasting is all you know. I told sean this before everybody got their. You know I'm saying throwing their names in the hat and we're all eating off the same carcass. You know what I'm saying? We're just a bunch of vultures out here eating the hip-hop podcast.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the hip-hop podcast is overrun, bro, so maybe I'm giving Elliot too much credit, but I'm saying, as smart as he is and then, where he comes from, he should be thinking about the next thing he comes from. He should be thinking about the next thing, like, don't try to hate on the podcasters doing their thing now, because they're caking up and they're doing their thing. Okay, so you might have missed this boat a little bit. You need to be thinking about what's next. You know what I mean, and pioneer that instead of falling back on what made you great, because, like, I think that's a dying IP, what Sean said. And as far as hip-hop podcasting, you know, I think we the dopest out, but we only got the shy 2,000, like subscribers or whatever. You know what I'm saying, but it's because everybody is consuming the same content. They're all eating off the same carcass man, so somebody gotta find that new.
Speaker 1:Right. I mean, you know, truthfully, for us and this is what I mean about he's not in this space in order for us to thrive, we have to outwork our competition. We don't even have to be better than our competition, we just have to outwork them. I do think we're better than our competition. Well, it has to be a combination of those things. Well, it has to be a combination of those things. I mean, it has to be a confluence of circumstances, for sure, and what I'm saying his confluence of circumstances look like is that he doesn't even have to be in this space to thrive and exist.
Speaker 1:He is deified in this space and what he is doing is playing with his deification, because this is not like. How about this? If he was the Michael Jordan of hip hop journalists? Oh no, this is not Michael Jordan with the Wizards. This is not like. How about this? If he was the michael jordan of hip-hop journalists? Oh no, this is not michael jordan with the wizards. This is like michael jordan like right now, like if you ask mike to play, like that's what this look like, you know? I mean, this ain't no 20, 22 points a game, like that's not what he out here giving yeah, I know we gotta move on.
Speaker 3:But to my original point. Some cats just don't need to be in front of the camera because we didn't know he acted the way he acted like. He might have been giddy as hell, like every time he interviewed jay for double xl, but when you put that optic in front of the camera and people see it, you know what I'm saying. You want to talk about like really, you know I'm saying like messing with your brand or whatever people like come on, bro. Like you know what I mean. Like you know it's like it's out there for public consumption. Now, you know what I'm saying. So, everybody, you know the, the image of people, the image what people had in their head the ones of us that did hold us high for what he built in the past, that's, that's tarnished, bro. We don't look at him in the same way because of how. How he acts when the camera's on. Well, that's tarnished, bro. We don't look at him in the same way because of how he acts when the camera's on.
Speaker 1:Well, that's because now you can go back to his writing work and be like oh well, he has biases and that hurts your integrity, it's blatantly obvious. How about this? Not to be funny, I'm about to bring up some old white men, right quick. Did y'all ever know how Peter Jennings, Tom Brokaw or Dan Rather voted? Because they delivered the news to us throughout our entire childhood, teenage and 20s about politics and we never knew if they were Democrat or Republican. Did you ever know if they were Democrat or Republican? Or?
Speaker 1:republican right, because that's what true journalism is and so that's what him, being a media personality, has exposed. Is that? Well, we have you as an icon, as a journalist, and it's like it looks like you have, like you know, not the journalistic integrity that should be bequeathed to iconic journalists in any sort of sphere of writing. He's too much of a fan In a bad way. Yeah.
Speaker 2:In the worst way.
Speaker 1:We got to get out of here. We can literally do this for the whole year we got to go.
Speaker 2:We say all this with love, Elliot. If you were to get access to this in any kind of means, we say all this with love, Elliot. If you were to get access to this in any kind of means, we say all this with love. If you don't take it as love, who cares?
Speaker 1:No, Sean's saying it with love. I ain't saying it with love. I'm saying this shit like it fucking does.
Speaker 2:Love is love in 2025, man, love is love. Yeah, I would love it.
Speaker 1:Love is love love. Yeah, I would love it. Love is love, love, love is love, love. That's a Capitano quote. Please don't do that to start 2025. I would love it if they would stop what I would love for 2025, if, elliot, if you would stop doing this bullshit and if they would stop quoting Capitano. That's you two over there, that's crazy man, you two.
Speaker 2:Cool, let's get some super chats, man.
Speaker 1:Let's get to these super chats. I lost the damn super chats again.
Speaker 2:I got you right here.
Speaker 1:I got you right here. So, blind CJ the Kid back in with $5. Once I found out that Elliot is the one that gave one day to all, makes this three and a half mics. That's crazy. That's crazy. I knew never to trust him he's embracing.
Speaker 2:He's embracing his villain role.
Speaker 1:He's really embracing his villain role. Cj's that guy man it is an easy 4 mic album though the real raisin head 499 on the super chat, even before X's death. Why is it funny to laugh at Wayne's drug issues but not DMX's? And if Wayne were from New York, who would be Question? Love the pod, salute.
Speaker 3:If Wayne were from New York, who would he be? I guess Jewels, yeah.
Speaker 2:Way better than.
Speaker 1:Jewels no, he is not a cop, the Raisinhead, I'm not about to argue a cop. The Raisinhead. I'm not about to argue about that the Raisinhead. Dear Elliot. For a hip-hop journalist who claims to support a culture, the rep's the voice of the unheard. It's sad. The day of the gatekeeper is over. The rabbits ain't giving the guns back. Wow, we have. You want to know what we have? We have some very Ghostface-killing Lil Wayne abstract bar work super chats tonight.
Speaker 3:We appreciate y'all.
Speaker 1:Y'all starting the new year right. It's been stellar. The super chat game has been stellar. Hold on. We have more 007 stepping in the building again. Premiere just towered some-ish that Nas project may be one of those Greats. Don't speak like that and not deliver. Kind of reminds me of Nas talking about Stillmatic during the Nostradamus promo Insight from Double O to start off the new year, and we are going to go to a topic that does not involve journalists and media personalities. But back to the artists, gentlemen and I use that term loosely about both of you motherfuckers. Who needs to have a successful campaign in 2025? Artists, producers, producer. Yo God, you already know.
Speaker 2:You already know what I'm about to say Sean, Go ahead and say it for me Cool, cole.
Speaker 1:You already know. You already know what I'm about to say. Sean, go ahead and say it for me, cole.
Speaker 2:Cole got it. This got to be the year Cole dropped the fall off in the first quarter and dominated 2025.
Speaker 1:I would like to let J Cole know that we have gotten to the point in this dance where Sean is finishing my thoughts and sentences and, quite frankly, that makes me sick. No, no, no. Shame on you, cole, for putting me through this. I don't know how many, I don't know how many years I have to come on a podcast and say that he needs to make album of the year, but I'm just not going to say anything this time. You think Cole needs that more than Drake to come on a podcast and say that he needs to make album of the year, but I'm just not going to say anything this time.
Speaker 3:You think Cole needs that more than Drake?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Drake is.
Speaker 2:Drake. Let's not get it twisted guys. Drake is Drake.
Speaker 1:Do a baby with a Cole. Do a baby with a Cole need purple Tylenol Look man Cole was a chosen one from a pure standpoint. You can't do this. Look what I've been subjected to. I'm from the west side of Charlotte and east side of Atlanta and I've been subjected to Andre 3000 and J Cole for the entirety of my podcast career. I'll be damned, I'll be damned, I'll be damned. We need some W's. We need some W's that don't involve Rhapsody.
Speaker 2:Quite frankly, the fall off got to be the most.
Speaker 1:I'm not joking, I'm not exaggerating. Do you understand what has happened to Atlanta and North Carolina artists since I've been doing this? Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3:Look what happened to the baby.
Speaker 1:The baby's from the same side of town that my family is from. He's from Huntersville. My family is from West Boulevard, that's Westside.
Speaker 3:I agree that Cole is the one. The fall-off needs to be a five-mic classic album. I agree with everything y'all saying. But there's other names out there that needs a really viable 2025. Drake, that 100 gigs and all that stuff was cute. But he needs to bounce back and not talk about a joint for the casuals. He needs to get back what he did on those six tracks with the Scary H? Um, the scary hours, three on the for all the dogs. He needs to make a joint like that and really appease the rap fans.
Speaker 3:And like, you know what I'm saying because he lost the battle, but I think he can save some face if he releases an album with a lot of those.
Speaker 3:Right, and y'all might think I'm tripping, but Jay, it couldn't hurt Jay to drop an album that's really dope in 2025. Because he took a hit. You know what I'm saying in the PR. You know we don't have to talk about the case, but when Jay-Z addresses stuff on record and granted, like if you don't have any kind of trial, like by then, then of course your lawyers are telling you don't speak on it or whatever. Right, but just hypothetically, when Jay addresses stuff that's going on in his life, he really, you know that's when he's sometimes at his best. You know what I'm saying and I think that if he comes out of this unscathed and you know, hopefully not guilty of anything, unscathed and hopefully not guilty of anything a Jay-Z album would be big and dope for him in 2025, where he gets to address the issues from his vantage point and I think a lot of that public perception that's been ruined could swing in the other direction if he's not guilty.
Speaker 2:I respectfully disagree. I think Jay is who he is. I don't think Jay have to respond to nothing else. I don't think he needs to make an album. Maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago, yes, 2025? Nah, jay is who he is man. Jay doesn't have to make any more music. If he chooses not to, if he want to drop a Lucy in 2025 just to address it, so be it. That's a stretch. I don't think he has to drop a full album. I think again, aj, I get what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Drake is Drake. Let's not get it twisted. Drake's still selling like crazy. Right now, in the midst of all of this battle. If you take away all the noise from social media and the hip hop police and all of these things of social media, drake is still selling like crazy. He's still a major drop. He doesn't. 2025 would be great for him to have. Of course, that's a gimme right, but for someone like Cole, who actually has already he tweeted on I think it was first yesterday, yesterday, he tweeted the fall off. Cole did, yeah, cole did. So he's saying like, yeah, it's coming this year. He's the one who needs to have like that banging gear to close everything.
Speaker 1:Let's address the J thing. Everything you're saying actually about the J thing, everything you're saying actually about the j thing, is spot on ag, except for the hip-hop connoisseur perspective of it, which is, well, he is going to be forever compared against one guy musically, and I just don't think it's wise for him to step into that foray, because then what can happen is is that you know him releasing a subpar album post this nas run can make it in public opinion like, well, you know, you want to know. Oh, that guy is the goat actually, you know what I'm saying. And so about about that, about that. Unless he got it like that and I've been saying this, I've been saying this for some years too unless he has a king's disease, one worthy album in the bag, it is not a wise decision for him on rap terms to do it. But I understand totally everything that you were saying, cole, forest Hills Drive just can't be your best album and you'd be a top 20 MC all time, and so that's just really it at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:And I'm not saying that, like, forest Hills Drive isn't Madison Square Garden worthy because it is. But this is also not 1996, where your 20th best rapper is probably like somebody who we never grew up listening to in like who would fall in, who would fall as a number 20 rapper of all time. In 1996, like when all of us became like, you know, kind of like hip-hop heads, like official guys, like think about it, it's like in 1996 jay wasn't even solidified as a top 20 rapper all time. Like, so we grew up in a climate where it's like, oh no, cool, modi, grandmaster and Melly Mel are still going to make a top 20 list easily. We grew up in that world and so being a top 20 MC of all time Forest Hills Drive is not good enough for that. I agree with that Not as your magnum opus, like because watch this, okay. So where do you have red man ag?
Speaker 3:yeah, money. Why we're not even going to do that? Because money waters is better than forest hills drivers, so we're not going to do that okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, where you got cool g rap oh man, cool g rap would be in my top uh 15 so think about this Is Forest Hills Drive better than Wanted Dead or Alive or Live and Let Die, or Road to Riches? Do you think it's better than any of those three? I would say no.
Speaker 3:But I think part of me saying no lends to my age, demographic, because I think at a certain point a lot of people would resoundingly say yes in Cole's favor. How?
Speaker 1:about this. Is Forest Hills Drives Better Than Long Live the Kane. No, that's one of the greatest albums of all time, so he's not ahead of Kane. You know, most people don't even have Kane. Where you got Kane?
Speaker 3:Because that's all Kane has to bring to the table.
Speaker 1:I think that's what hurts Kane, so you got Cole ahead of Kane.
Speaker 3:I don't. You know, I never really thought about that, but that's Kane's only buy-in and I think that hurts him a lot. You know what I'm saying, Because we hold legends different.
Speaker 2:We hold guys like that, I mean Kane's impact Kane's, Some of those guys.
Speaker 1:Their impact is so different because of the time in which they evolved.
Speaker 3:Kane has Biggie and Jay as children, so off that alone I'll put him ahead of Cole. But with that said, as great, as long-lived as Kane is, that's your only major buy-in and that knocks you down. That's why Kane is not in my top 10. But I love Kane. But to clarify the Jay thing real quick, Coop, I agree with what you're saying, but what I meant was on the content side of things, because I know people. You know one of my best friends. He thinks Jay is the GOAT. But he was like yo. I could care less about hearing Jay in 2024, 25, talking about his paintings on the wall being married to Beyonce. All that stuff I'm saying is this gives him viable subject matter to really delve into. People trying to take him down.
Speaker 1:Oh, you mean, this is good inspiration for writing material, right?
Speaker 2:That's what I meant. No, no, no Love that Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Hold on, hold on AG, and would not be surprised if he hasn't already even recorded some records. Just don't know if those are ever going to see the light of day.
Speaker 3:Because I think that's when he's at his best.
Speaker 1:That's still a safe place, yeah, oh, when you put him up against it, yeah, that's the whole problem.
Speaker 2:The blueprint. He's done it before. We've seen it too many times with Jake. He don't have to do that anymore. He doesn't have to do that anymore if you want to drop a long verse on a calot joint or whoever God did no, no, no.
Speaker 1:I don't want to hear that. You want to know what AG? When you were talking, I did think to myself though I could see him maybe doing like a little quick four pack of songs and maybe dropping it out the blue and be like I don't think it all has to be on the case, but today's rap fan base doesn't view Jay the way the people view him that we came up on.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying, so I think that there's a lot to be said from his vantage point behind it.
Speaker 1:You want to know what's crazy and I didn't really find this out until this past year of kind of like working in Midtown and downtown in Atlanta again like regularly. Town and downtown in Atlanta, again like regularly there's a generation of people that literally look at him and it's like, oh yeah, that's Beyonce's husband and I'm like nigga what they're like, yeah, that's he used to rap. Right, that's what Sean says. First of all, sean says that because he's petty in disrespect. These people are saying that because this is their reality.
Speaker 3:I mean, I thought I heard you say that before.
Speaker 1:Pretty certain. It sounds like something Sean would say. I said it's. Blue's father. I said it's Blue's father.
Speaker 3:All right, moving on Next topic. Next topic this dude, Sean Wilde.
Speaker 1:Wow, no Super chats. Then next topic Jermaineson with the 999 super chat. Elliot was hating. Elliot is also correct. A lot of these media platforms are trash. It's mostly just hip-hop, gossip, not music, and then they call themselves the journalists. Well, you know, we got these glass houses, so I try not to have stones when I step outside of that, motherfucker. All right, thank you. My mere thoughts 199. Jay-z In my Lifetime, volume 2, 2025. No, how about no?
Speaker 3:How about no, I'm glad you said that Volume 2. That's a good segue to our next topic, when we get out of these super chats.
Speaker 1:All right, pull up the rest of them.
Speaker 2:Okay, the last one, my mere thoughts with the 999 Super Chat.
Speaker 1:Appreciate you my mere thoughts. The fab north of Montana is fire. It is yeah, I was impressed.
Speaker 3:I was skeptical to listen to it. Once I saw the cover art I was like come on, fab.
Speaker 1:And then it was pretty dope. I didn't see the cover art. Somebody sent it to me. But I'm glad they sent it to me. It's one of the better records he's made in a minute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, shout out to Fab.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shout out to Fab. Speaking of Fab, og Classic sent me. So, gentlemen, a lot of our great and all-time great MCs have been making returns in the 2020s, but what do those deposits look like? We've seen a lot of albums made with predecessor titles of their greatest works, and is this just an overall good look for hip-hop is really what we want to ask, and are these artists potentially hurting themselves by releasing classic album redos and sequels of the same name that? Maybe it happened too late? Did they miss their time? Did they miss their moment?
Speaker 1:What's the thought on the return of all the ogs? Because we got a ton of guys that have made returns in the last couple years. Ice cube just dropped the projects, because we got a ton of guys that have made returns in the last couple years. Ice Cube just dropped a project last year. We've always talked about the Nas run. Wayne is still here and viable and, as much as people hate to admit it, even the guys that people call the big three the Waynes I mean the Coles, the Kendricks, the Drakes those guys are all 15-year vets now. They're not you know. Yeah, like, think about this If Steph and LeBron and KD are on the back end. So are these guys, because they've been rapping as long as those guys have been balling pretty much Yep. So we got to look at the game the same way. So what do you think about the state of the OGs and how's the game looking right now?
Speaker 2:AG do you want to oh OGs and how's?
Speaker 3:the game looking right now AG, do you want to? Oh yeah, I don't think it looks very good at all. If I'm being honest, Tell people how you really feel.
Speaker 3:Tell them why you mad son yeah like you know we was going to focus around you know legends doing sequel albums. Right, and just to clarify, like a lot of times, like you said, coop, they read, they revisit a theme and then, you know, do a sequel album, a lot of times with some distance or gap in between. So when they come out with this you know follow-up album, when they title it as such as a, you know, successor to the original classic, they want people to hearken back to their original work. And then they're trying to come out with, um, something new. And we often get disappointed behind those releases because we say, oh, missionary, is not doggy style.
Speaker 3:Um, although the chronic and Chronic 2001 are both classics or whatever, I know a lot of people that will say it didn't live up to the first Chronic.
Speaker 3:And then, you know, lost Tapes 2 is in Lost Tapes 1, and then I can go on and so on and so forth. But we usually crucify the artists for not living up to their previous works. But to the point that you said, coop, how's the game looking? I think a lot of time these older artists got to revisit their previous works and try to tap into something dope, because there's not enough dope artists in the current game. So you know I'm having to get off my lawn moment. But at the same time, if you look once kendrick cole and drake decide to hang it up, and some other people that we named early in the show, in their, uh, in their class, like the big shawns and you know the joey's and you know those are the world, who's really up next to carry the torch? I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't look good, you know. Know, we are all Griselda fans here, but those guys are our age.
Speaker 1:You know what I?
Speaker 3:mean they are Absolutely. It doesn't look good. So like listening to Muddy Waters 2, is it Muddy Waters 1? Not at all. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:Very few albums are Very few. Rap albums are.
Speaker 3:Right, but is it a dope project? Yes, and I don't want to come on here and crucify Redman for not living up to the original Muddy Waters. The question I want to ask is what new artist is putting out an album that's as good as the second installment?
Speaker 1:Oh, shoot, okay. So, ag, I guess I think on the level of like, shoot where's, when is one of these artists going to make a muddy waters? Because that is the bigger problem. So I think I think we're asking a good question, but I actually think the better question is is well, if there was a new crop of ms that were making something that was Muddy Waters level, only built for Cuban Lynx level, illmatic level, we wouldn't have to talk about the redos that these other artists are doing, because the game would be changing precipitously, fast enough that then making those types of albums wouldn't be an option for them.
Speaker 1:In this climate, you all actually taught me something. When we were talking about stillmatic and y'all talked about it being the follow-up to illmatic, I thought, oh, he's ahead of everybody else on how quick you're supposed to do a follow-up as well. That is another feather in his cap, because Stillmatic to me, was never a follow-up, because I'm so used to follow-ups taking so long. But then you got to think about it the way rap years work and it's like, oh no, releasing a follow-up to your quote-unquote, undisputed classic seven years after its release in rap years, it's like doing it 20 years later. It's perfect timing. Literally doing it 20 years later is not a good idea, and very few people have pulled it off.
Speaker 1:Well, because I thought about something the best redos, the best sequels or whatever that we've had, both came seven years apart, and that's the Chronic 2001 and Stillmatic. Talk about it, guys. The best sequels that we had came seven years apart. What's wrong? You had the Chronic ready. You knew we were going to talk about it. I didn't even tell you I was going to talk about this. You had it ready, so you were going to talk about this anyway. So you already know. So this is. The thing with it is is that the problem isn't the rappers doing the sequels, it's the fact these niggas waited too long to do the sequels the space yeah seven.
Speaker 1:I mean okay, so shout out to the Purple Tape 2. I think the Purple Tape 2 is the best example of somebody taking their OG classic and transferring it into modern day form, because there is what a 14 year gap. 14 year gap, the 14 year gap. There's no other sequel that's as good as the purple tape that it took that long to make in hip hop history, I think. And so the purple and I was going to bring this up the purple tape too, for me would be the barometer by which we measure the modern day sequel in terms of how we should gauge it. Because is it the purple tape? Well, no, it's not a top five rap album of all time. But isn't it appropriate followup? Oh, yes, it is. It's a very appropriate followup for the amount of time that it took.
Speaker 3:And in the context of the Wu, if we name in the top 10 Wu albums, I think it makes it might make the cut at the very end.
Speaker 1:From a solo artist perspective.
Speaker 3:Just Wu albums in general.
Speaker 1:Wu albums in general. So we have Enter the Wu-Tang and Wu-Tang Forever. Right, we got the Purple Tape. Liquid Swords, iron man, supreme, return to the 36 Chambers. Yeah, I mean after Return to the 36 Chambers. I don't necessarily know if there's an album better than the purple tape too. Am I missing something?
Speaker 3:like I mean, you could throw to cal in there.
Speaker 1:I mean I don't think the cow's better than the purple tape too.
Speaker 3:It's not I don't necessarily think so either.
Speaker 1:The beats away, but I mean nothing against riz's production job on. The beats on the purple tape, too, are the better than the beats on.
Speaker 3:To cap, and I know you're going to think I'm talking funny, but the Pillage man, like the Pillage, would make that top ten bro.
Speaker 2:No no, no, I'll go to the side.
Speaker 1:The Pillage might make the top ten, but I don't think that's better than the purple tape too as well, and that is me saying that objectively.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's. I would give the edge to Purple Tape too, but I think it does make the cut for the top 10 move project You're right, because I think you can drop it at about seven or eight or nine.
Speaker 1:I love Nigga, pleased by Old Dirty Bastard. I don't care what anybody says, that's in my top 10.
Speaker 3:That was a wild area because we got Bobby Digital and that around the same time and you had to be a diehard root.
Speaker 2:It came about a year apart because Bobby Digital was like yeah, that's what I'm saying Like around the same time.
Speaker 3:But I remember they came out like if we doing fiscal year they came out.
Speaker 1:Hold on. No, that's two years apart, isn't that 98-2000? 98-2000.
Speaker 3:I remember them both being like my freshman year of college. One was towards the front end and one was towards the back end.
Speaker 1:If ODB is 99, he's late 99.
Speaker 2:It had to be yeah.
Speaker 1:Like definitely fall this fall. Fall had to have been fall.
Speaker 2:Bobby Ditchie came out in 98.
Speaker 3:I think it was the second year. Yeah, my second year, because I only spent two years in the dorms by my own spot. I remember both of those was out. You know what I'm saying? Before spot. I remember both of those was out before, when I was in the dorms. It was a year apart, but still that was a wild time to be a Wu fan.
Speaker 2:I fought through it, though I ain't going front, I fought through Rest in peace to Holocaust for real. Rest in peace to Holocaust, aka War Cloud.
Speaker 1:Rest in peace to ODB, one of the dopest, one of the dopest lyricists.
Speaker 2:man in that Wu Camp from the West Coast man.
Speaker 3:Best verse on that Bobby Digital album arguably Best verse Best verse on that Bobby Digital album.
Speaker 1:That and meth verse on NYC Everything are the two best ones.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sit behind the can as we go inside the mind again Never mind the man, drop a gym. Can you shine again? Most definite, the milk is crazy man. You guys killed that. If I can add on just a little bit, you guys really killed that. Real talk, bravo, I think.
Speaker 2:For me, my take on the emotional side of me, I don't disagree, I agree with HG. The logical side, I don't disagree. Or vice versa, sean, you echoing a little? Yeah, I got this other device trying to get stuff in. Am I still echoing? No, all right, let me turn this thing off because I'm in the chat at the same time. Alright, that's better.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing, fellas, the OG's never had anyone to pass the torch to, so they didn't have a successor and because of that they got to come back and circle the block. I think when Jay had an opportunity when he was a successor, and because of that they got to come back and circle the block, I think when Jay had an opportunity, when he was trying to get Bleak, to be the next one to be the new, improved Jay, it didn't pan out and he leapfrogged that and went to Wayne when Wayne was on his run, remember, he said you know, pass the torch to young Carter, go further, go farther. I think when you have stuff like that happening, when you start inventing the region itself, you don't have someone to replace what you already created, because we always talk about it. You are not even behind the scenes. We talk about how important you know the early 90s were when it came to hip hop and you had the pillars.
Speaker 2:And you even go back to 88, 87, 89, when you also had different pillars. You had Rakim, you had Kane, you had Kairos One, you had Coogee Rap, you had the who's who who was dropping gems, phenomenal albums. So now you're building a strong foundation, you're building a strong house and you start adding room to that house. In the 90s you got Big, you got Nas, you got Pop, you got Jay coming along, you got Woo, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:Redman.
Speaker 2:Redman right. You got all of these outcasts, goody Mob, right Outcasts opened the door for Goody Mob to come through right, although their inception is the same time, but they allowed Goody Mob to come through after they established themselves.
Speaker 1:Outkast is the South Gateway drug to hip-hop. Outkast is like oh no, they got Goodwee down there. We all need to smoke this.
Speaker 2:Bingo. So it made people say, okay, I want to hear more, but I want to hear from that Goody Mob chamber. And because of that the door was opened for those guys to come right behind outcasts with fairly ease and they were dope themselves Even in New York. You know, when Nas came through, you had Mobb D. You know you had others coming, you had CNN.
Speaker 1:You had all of that. All Boys was big for a minute. They were repping South Side too. Nas Voice Right, Onyx CNN.
Speaker 3:You had all of that, all Boys was big for a minute.
Speaker 1:They were repping South Side 2. Onyx, that was just Queens. Tribes, that's just Queens.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of talent floating around A lot of talent. You got Tribe, who started some of that lineage as well. Now you're talking about cosigning. You're talking about unity. You're talking about Nas being on Live at the Barbecue. You're talking about Nas being on Verbal Intercourse. You're talking about AZ being on Illmatic. So you're talking about opening the door for others to follow because of cosign. Think about how many albums we purchased just because our favorite artist was on that album.
Speaker 1:I bought Door Die on a Cosign right of a.
Speaker 2:Cosign, because you saw Nas Naples on there as a feature artist. I want to hear Nas verse because that's the only way I can get it. I can't stream it, I can't buy the single.
Speaker 1:I got to get the whole album well, my favorite rapper is backing this guy. He's on his album, he's in the guy's first single, like Nas is in the Sugarhill video, exactly so it's like oh no, no, no, that's the reinforcement of the backing that used to be all you needed. It's like oh no, this guy can rap my guy backs him like that's like Red.
Speaker 1:Oh no, this guy can rap, my guy backs him. That's like Redman and EPMD. That's all Redman needed. It's like oh no, no, no, I heard his verse. It's like oh yeah, I heard his verse.
Speaker 2:It's like, oh no, that guy and that's all you needed, even with Jay bringing Jay trying to get Bleak to be the next one. But you have Beans, who was much better than bleak so see, but that's see, that's the thing.
Speaker 1:So hip-hop, hip-hop. Here's what really happened. This is where the pat the the passing of the torch stopped. Hip-hop used to decide for you. Yes, so when you're bringing up jay, yeah, he was trying to give it the bleak and and something happened to him and to Bleak and something happened to him. And you want to know what happened to him. Crew Love happened and all of us said, man, nothing against your boy. Bleak, he's dope. That other guy that's on the record with him Beans, oh, that dude is next level.
Speaker 1:That was the first time we heard Beans on Crew Love, we was like who in the fuck is that nigga? That is the same effect that it happened when you hear Snoop on deep cover, when you hear Nas on live at the barbecue. It's one of those when you know, you know moments. And let me tell you what happened, because Jay has something to do with this.
Speaker 1:The OG stopped passing the torch when it was 50's turn and that's the fucking problem, and Jay is implicated in that, and not about Bleak and not about Beans. It was time to pass the torch to 50 and them dudes didn't want to do it. And I'm going to tell you because I'm one of those guys that didn't want the torch passed, and I'm going to tell you why. If you go, look at everybody in New York who was king before, oh, he is the least lyrically inclined of all of them. And New Yorkers, even when 50 was taking the reins, were still funny about their lyricists, because they're used to Rock M and krs1 and cool g rap and big daddy, kane and naz and jay and big and even kiss, and 50 does not fit that mold as a traditional lyricist. And that's where this shit changed about ogs passing the torch because nobody gave it to 50, so 50 just had to snatch it out of their hands.
Speaker 3:I see your point, Cooper. I halfway agree, halfway disagree. I think Nas tried to pass the Tours to 50 when 50 wasn't ready for it. You know what I'm saying. He took them on tour when he didn't have to.
Speaker 1:You're talking two years before he's ready.
Speaker 3:He's not ready, then Right, that's what I was just saying. I said he wasn't ready for it then. And granted, m is not New York, but by that time M was an OG by OG standards, passing it down to 50. And he had the Dre backing too. So he didn't have it from NY I do see your point on that but he did have OGs backing him. It just happened to be two of the biggest, most famous OGs. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:But that's OK. So, ag, everything that you're explaining is actually spot on. The makeup of it changed. That's what I mean. It wasn't. It wasn't him getting the co-sign from from from who really had the torch. Eminem never really had the torch in hip hop eyes. That's where the co-sign 50 is, where the co-s cosine becomes the thing and not the torch bearing and torch passing you don't think he had it in o2 after eight miles and all that, because I mean 50 is o3.
Speaker 1:I think him had the torch in o2 no, I mean to be honest with you, man, I mean so. So so this is what I mean about how this still works. If you're talking O2, most people walking around in O2 still think that Nas, jay, dmx, like definitely those three Ghosted, made Supreme Clientele which brought Woo all the way back and was in that mix.
Speaker 3:And it's still New York. But the Eminem show and 8 Mile ain't nothing to sneeze at and I know y'all ain't as big of Eminem fans as I am.
Speaker 2:No, you're right.
Speaker 1:It's not anything to sneeze at. It's actually a very, very big moment in hip-hop history, but you know, to quote, J Streets is talking Can.
Speaker 3:I say this when 50 joined Eminem, Eminem was at his hottest like we like to say, hottest fish grease. And I really find it comparable to when Drake was brought on to Young Money, because Wayne was at his highest and his peak when Drake came on there. So it's like a power vacuum. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Those moves were strategic, by Eminem and Wayne, respectively, at the peak of their powers to make a power move like that.
Speaker 3:And the difference with Jay and I hate to say this, but y'all alluded to it with Beans. He would never let them get that close to him. You know what I'm saying as far as in the ranks, that's what I mean about cosigning instead of torch passing.
Speaker 1:It's like oh no.
Speaker 3:Here's the thing about it.
Speaker 1:Think about it 50 always talks about. I always ride for Eminem because of what he did for me. He's not necessarily he has talked about over the years about how close they are, but when he talks about what he would do, he talks about what it did for him. That's a cosigner Right.
Speaker 2:That's a final line.
Speaker 1:There's a difference between somebody passing the torch and somebody cosigning. Input his name on the line behind 50, not passing a torch to 50.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that's the big point.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. That's where it changed, because, well, really, and AG very astute observation about how Nas did take him on the tour of Bravehearts. That was the matter of fact. If I'm not mistaken, that was the R Kelly Nas tour in 1999.
Speaker 3:It was Nostradamus tour, but I do believe R Kelly might have been on there too.
Speaker 1:No, he had tour dates with R Kelly too, because they came to Charlotte. I remember because I went Damn, that's crazy, because that's around the time Did you Ever Think? Came out, yeah, and the remix to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he. So Nas did try to pass the torch to 50. You are correct about that. But 50 was not ready, but it was Jay's to pass. By the time it was 50's turn and they, not passing it, set up a confluence of circumstances where an emcee from Detroit who happens to be the biggest cellist artist in the game and a guy from California who happens to be the biggest producer this game has ever seen, had to come in and co-sign this guy for him to get that torch, and that was different what Jay said in himself, because he was in quote unquote retirement and he tried to pass the torch to his guys.
Speaker 3:He said this guy, 50 Cent, is coming and he's going to crush the game. So get y'all affairs in order, because if it's not y'all that's doing this, then we got a problem. He wanted to pass the torch to one of his dudes.
Speaker 1:How about this? Before M Cosign 50, MCs didn't co-sign other artists of 50's stature. They passed the torch. The producers co-signed. This is what I mean about a producer co-signing Marley Marlhill's Big Daddy Kane rap-averse outside the front door of his apartment is like no, no, no, you come back.
Speaker 3:Co-sign 50 had both. No, no, no, you come back, Cosines. Well, 50 had both. He had Drake too. That's what I mean about how that's where it changed.
Speaker 1:It's like no, he had the artist and the producer and shit. They're like oh no, everybody on the cosign now it's like it used to be. It used to be the producer would be like I got this guy that can rap Dr Dre and Snoop. I got this guy who can rap you know.
Speaker 2:Right. But that's the thing, coop. It's not a cosign anymore. I mean, it's not a torch anymore, it's a cosign, because what artist really passed the torch? I hear what you're saying, ag, but Nas never really passed the torch to 50. He cosigned 50. He said, yo, 50 is the future. That's not the same as passing the torch, because, again, rapping is all about.
Speaker 1:I'm the one. This is what I'm looking at. So people pass the torch differently. Though, sean, I've heard some stories about how, you know, g-rap wouldn't give Nas the same type of shit that he was giving the other MCs in the studio, because he could hear a guy like he could hear Nas rapping and was hearing the stuff that large pro was paying for him and it's like oh no, he talked shit to a lot of them other dudes about their rap skills as opposed to his, but even with a young Nas, he didn't necessarily talk to Nas that way because he could hear what is coming. There is some torch passing in those moments because, because different people pass the torch differently Like G is a gangster, so he's not about to like you know what I'm saying, just be like oh, here you go. But his way of passing it may not be to talk shit about you and give you the shit in front of everybody the way he is all these other dudes that's in the studio. He might let you just sit over there and write in silence instead.
Speaker 2:But I don't think just one person had the torch to pass. It is what I'm saying. Like even with Rakim, right? I don't think even during Rakim's reign he didn't have the torch, just isolated to say here, here's to Nas or here's to whoever, like Big said there's to whoever Like Big said.
Speaker 3:Rakim didn't pass Nas anything, if we're being correct.
Speaker 2:Hold on hold on. He never passed to anyone.
Speaker 1:I don't agree because the two most isolated moments that I can think of of one person having the ring is actually Rakim and Jay respectively, for about a year, year and a half, where it's like, oh no they got it.
Speaker 3:And there's nothing you can do about it. Let me say well, let me say this real quick, because I think y'all are saying two different things, or hold it, sean, it sounds like you're putting more weight on the passing the torch and Coop. You put more weight on the cosigner. But let's just break down the definition of cosigner. So all of us, you know successful men that secured a lot of loans. Sometimes people can't secure loans in this world unless you have somebody put the name on the dotted line for you in order to get certain things. But I'm just saying like, that's how the world works sometimes. So what koopa's saying is actually right, though, because 50 had eminem and dre put their like names on the line for his success. Naz, cosign, az, az got a deal behind. Life's a bitch and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:I think past passing the torch is less formal. Like when naz was rapping on um, uh, the made nas proud. The response to the j cole like let nas down. He said yo, here's the crown, there's nothing, I pass it to you. Like you know, blah, blah, blah. Like that's a passing of the torch moment. Like yo, it's a wink, it's a knock. I tip my cap. I see you carrying on tradition of what I'm doing, so I'm passing the torch to you. But he didn't co-sign J Cole, because co-sign would be like put my name on the line like Wayne did for Drake. You know what I'm saying. You know what I mean. I think the co-sign is the heavier weighted thing.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. There's no such thing to me as really passing that torch, because in hip-hop it's too competitive to say here, here you have it. Because even from Rakim you gotta think about. Ll was there and LL thought that he was the one. So many people thought that they were the one. Where it's hard to say, this singular person honestly has the crown to pass, even when Big was in his prime. What he said he said there were. No, I don't have any peers in his prime. What he said he said there were. No, I don't have any peers in his rap name.
Speaker 3:In so many ways he did pass the torch to Jay. A lot of people like to frame it like Jay just picked it up after Big died. But Big respected who Jay was in real time when they both were alive and Jay is one of the emcees that Biggie. It's documented that Biggie feared Jay-Z. You know what I'm saying. Passing the torch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if that's passing the torch. So when Jay is calling the conversation where he plays, big Streets is Watching and Big is like the whole album is like this. Yeah, it's the whole album like this. I don't think he got to pass the torch, but I think if he did, that's the person he's going to how do you know that Big wasn't saying that from the perspective of like oh no, I can do that and make bigger records. I can up the ante.
Speaker 1:That's what they do that's competitive nature is Big saying it like, oh, I'm concerned. Or is Big saying it like, oh, I already got you because I do that and I do the other thing better?
Speaker 3:I think it's more out of concern.
Speaker 1:You think it's out of concern. I do, but it's a matter of perspective. But here's what I'm saying. As much as I love Streets is Watching, it's not better than Ten Crack Commandments to me, because the creative license and the delivery on 10 crack amendments like, like sometimes, sometimes being rooted in the reality of it can hurt you as a writer. When you're up against somebody like I don't know big, Cause big can be rooted in the reality of it and flip the fly shit better. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I think the passing the torch is less you know, it's more informal. Like we, I'm looking at it like a relay, like yo, you carry it on, you know what I done started off and you carrying it on and you carrying it even further. You might spin back and like I take it back again or whatever. But cosigning I think like careers are built off of cosigning Absolutely. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:The passing of the torch thing is more informal, to me In hip-hop, it's hard to pass that torch because it's too competitive. That's true. You're looking at the field and you're saying, oh, they're doing that. I've got to go back and do this. What Big said, you took Ray, da took home study shit. Come on. He's saying you're taking what I'm saying and you're trying to do what I'm doing at a high clip because now you're raising the bar. It's not passing the torch anymore, it's raising the bar. All those guys Nas, big Prodigy, ray that was the four at one point Remember 95, that was the four. They were raising the bar with each other. When Cuba Link came out, it set a whole different style when it came to Mafioso rap.
Speaker 2:That's all G-Rap though Exactly, but guess who raised the bar.
Speaker 1:G-Rap is kind of like the author of it, but what the purple tape does is up the ante, because what you have is you have them actually adopting aliases and you actually have them talking about things and, quite frankly, like Arthur Meyer, lansky, cristal, like all that I found out, about that from the purple tape. Is that?
Speaker 3:not what you're supposed to do. I just said is that not what you're supposed to do? I said if you're past the baton and the relay you're supposed to do. I just said is that not what you're supposed to do? I said if you're past the baton and the relay, you're supposed to take it faster and further, correct?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how about this? The foundation that G-Rap laid, it's like the purple tape is the upping of the ante of that, but in the upping of the ante it actually became the standard bearer, because now it's the benchmark, because nothing has really surpassed it since it's and while we on Mafioso, to that point Coop remember, I said on this show I still, to this day, think we don't get an.
Speaker 3:It Was Written if Doe or Die is made, I don't think we get that album. I don't know man, that's the bridge piece from Illmatic that shows the direction of where it was going next.
Speaker 2:I think it was written because of the success of Ready to Die.
Speaker 3:That was the culprit. You know what I'm saying. What put him in that mode? But A was already there.
Speaker 1:I think what he did with it Was Written was try to take the infamous and ready to die and do his best take. I think.
Speaker 2:Cuban Link plays a part in that too. Cuban Link too.
Speaker 1:I think Cuban Link is influencing the scope, but I'm talking in terms of the records being made. I think there's a lot of ready to die. Infamous influence on. It Was Written in terms of the approach.
Speaker 3:Go, listen, to Do or Die. I was written in terms of the approach yeah, but go go listen to do or die? I don't think it gets the credit. The best thing about Illmatic and the best things about it was written. It's the perfect companion and bridge piece between the two albums. And who was Nas running with at the time? Az?
Speaker 1:No, I mean do or die. Do or die is actually the first uh rap album that I bought with my own money. Uh, I bought the tape when it came out and so, like no, door die is like that people understand. Like door die has a lot of classic records on it and very few misses, very few actually, I mean, if any, I can't think of one I don't love the beat to we Don't Win, and as much as I love Uncut Raw, I would have preferred a different intro, even though I love that record.
Speaker 1:I would have preferred a different intro, because I feel like a different intro would have helped that album achieve the instant classic status.
Speaker 3:It would have been a better executive production.
Speaker 2:I was just about to say that, because after you hear Cuban Link in 95, and then you go in here, it's tough man, it's just, it's not fair.
Speaker 1:The sequencing could have been better. I don't love Uncut Raw going into Gimme Yours. I love both of those records separately, though I agree Separately, like isolated, both of those records are brilliant to me.
Speaker 3:It's too much of a shift. It's too much of a shift.
Speaker 1:To start off the album Right Gimme, yours is too early. It's a banger, but it's too early. Matter of fact, they could have even flipped. How about this? Even if you want to flip, give me yours and Rather Unique. You know what I'm saying? Love Rather Unique, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Rather Unique is one of Pete Rock's more underrated production jobs too.
Speaker 3:Crazy, bro, crazy. Let me ask you all this real quick Do y'all think in my mind, I think that Chuck D passed the torch to Q? What?
Speaker 2:do y'all say to that I can see that. I can see that, because Q was radical, just like Chuck D.
Speaker 1:Well, his production team produced his first solo album, so that's how he passed. He was in that camp and Ice Cube is very much Chuck D West and always has been orator wise, they're in the same wheelhouse.
Speaker 3:You know, I'm saying they're both natural orators radical guys strong personalities, content driven rappers.
Speaker 2:They didn't care yeah, alright, let's get to some super chats, right quick rappers.
Speaker 1:They didn't care. Yeah, freedom of speech. Let's get to some super chats, right, quick. Throw the first one up, because it already passed me by. It's my mere thoughts. I know I saw my mere thoughts up in there. Pull it up. There we go. After Kenny Cole and Drake, hip-hop will get dark, that's a fact.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Brandon Rogers with the $10. Appreciate you, brandon. Only built for Cuban leagues had a pretty solid sequel. We spoke to that. Absolutely it's one of the best sequels ever. It's not still Matic or 2001 level, but it's. It's up there. Jermaine Johnson $4.99. We need our listeners to drop sequels because unfortunately there are no great mainstream MCs under the age of 30. It literally doesn't exist. It's a fact. Ooh, it's a fact. That might be a show topic for another day. That's a show topic for another day. Ill Magic with the $9.99. If there was a biopic movie on Lauryn Hill, who would y'all want to play her? My pick is Ryan Destiny. I saw her in the Clarissa Shields movie and was shocked by how much she favored Lauren so much.
Speaker 3:I would want I can't think of her name right now the lady that played in Us and in Black Panther.
Speaker 1:Lupita.
Speaker 3:Lupita yeah, I'd like Lupita to play.
Speaker 1:So it's now the wrong time for me to pick Delicious from Instagram. No, no, no, not Delicious. Okay, so moving on. No Bad time, alright, keep up with the Super Chicks.
Speaker 3:No, the chick that play. The chick that play Walmart like drawing a blank Walking Dead and Black Panther as well. Yo nah, the chick that play. The chick that play Walmart like draw on a blank Walking Dead and Black Panther as well.
Speaker 1:But have you seen the little brown skin?
Speaker 3:thing Nah nah. You don't think the nah would kill? I think the nah would kill that.
Speaker 1:Have you seen Delicious on IG? You know the little brown skin thing I'm talking about. No, just ask questions, just ask questions, just ask questions, ask questions. Public has a right to know how you feel about delicious. I'm going to send you guys a couple links. Definitely my thing.
Speaker 2:I know LP might be looking for it right now, though. Not too old man, Respectfully.
Speaker 1:Whoa, that sounded disrespectful. With that, we're going to go.
Speaker 3:Lupita would be the better choice. Lupita would be the better choice and her acting range is great Speaking of disrespect.
Speaker 1:Gentlemen, it is time to get to this week's Discord dialogue. As we close this show, the Discord has decided and said that we are going to talk about a little bit of state property. D-block rap wars. Sean, you kicked us off. You was in the mix, was I?
Speaker 2:oh my goodness, I was never tell those stories live again man, ever get a chance to see something like that again. Ever, ever, ever, ever, um, one of the best times in hip-hop. Man, you know where he stayed prop, going up to font flex and doing that freestyle um, going crazy. I didn't like it. I'm not gonna going to lie to you. I hated it. I hated it. We wanted to jump in the car and go up there and see what time it was, because we all hated it.
Speaker 2:Because he started off with Nas, all of those guys started off with Nas, and then they started going into Kiss and then they started going into Styles and it was a funny time because they already had music together you know Rockefeller State, you know, and the locks, and they already had, you know, tours together and everything. So there was some connective tissue. And, you know, new York looked at Philly as a little brother. Respect to Philly, you know. But New York looked at Philly as a little brother, like how dare you? You know, come at us like this. And this was really part of that big Philly wave that was coming through. Rockefeller was a big part of that big Philly wave, with Beans leading the charge and Freeway right there beside him. It was crazy because in real time, I could never fathom, I could never concede to the fact that it was. Even at that time, I'll be honest, I felt like yo. You know? Lox, jada, we're killing them right now. Yonkers, we're killing them right now.
Speaker 1:People understand how nice Beans was, Beans. That day was going at Nas and Kiff and Styles and I was worried and had legitimate cause to be worried because he was like that. I was like, oh, I was like this is like this. I was like, oh, no, I was like not with this dude.
Speaker 3:Jay had that boy on the front line. I'm like the other dudes are nice.
Speaker 1:The other dudes can rap, yes, but that was the day that Beans, I was like, oh, I'm like. The other dudes are nice. The other dudes can rap, yes, but that was the day that Beans, I was like, oh, I'm like, but this dude, I'm like. This dude built different, because he built for the moment. No, he about the, he about the. He was just going and going and I was like, oh no, I was like he here like he I'm like I'm like this is a problem.
Speaker 1:I'm like he's a whole problem, like he's the first dude, he's died you on a holiday.
Speaker 2:Styles, died you on a holiday Like he was going crazy. Man Damn flexing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh my goodness, no, no, no. He went berserk. He was the first dude that I heard go at somebody like of their caliber and I was like, oh no, they need to be worried right now. Like I don't know, Like I didn't heard him. I knew he was like that, but no, he liked that, like that, Like when he got done, I said he might end up being one of the five greatest MCs of all time. That was my takeaway from him walking out of Hot 97. I was like he might end up being one of the five greatest MCs of all time. Like it might go Nas, Big J, Rocky and Beans.
Speaker 3:Look, nas wasn't speaking hyperbole on Ethan when he said compared to Beans, you whack. Like I mean that wasn't. I mean Beans was really like that. You know what I'm saying. Like people know that wasn't true but it wasn't a far-fetched claim.
Speaker 1:How about this? The boogeyman that popped out that kendrick showed sometimes you gotta pop out and show niggas, right? The boogeyman that finally popped out in 2024 that kendrick showed after 14, 15 years in this game? Oh, no, beans showed us that in about the first six months. You want to talk about some boogeyman shit. That was what that was. When people be talking about, it's like yo coop, like when I be talking about the happy beats.
Speaker 1:I got that from beans when they played nas is like and told him to rap over, he was like cut them happy, beats off yo you know I'm thinking like you do not talk about nas is like like that. And then I'm thinking about it. It's like oh no, this dude is nice enough to talk like that because he might go rap over the beat and sound just as good as nas. And I can't remember nothing but a handful of times that I felt that way about a rapper. It was a stellar moment.
Speaker 3:Flex got a little too giddy when he said that I didn't like that man.
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean he did. That was the JFA.
Speaker 3:That was the.
Speaker 1:JFA. Now you know Elliot and Funk Flex love Jace Frodum. All right, now Wing it on that motherfucker. Yeah, but not Flex anymore.
Speaker 2:Flex. He been calling that Jay.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, it's too late. Once you done swang from the balls, you know what I'm saying I mean them checks might have stopped coming. Checks definitely stopped coming. That's when the attitude changed. It became a real media personality again. But that's when the that's. That's when the attitude changed. It became a real media personality again. But that's neither here nor there, you know. But but it. But it was great times. Man, the empire strikes back mixtape, all the d-block drops and stuff. But who do you think won the battle?
Speaker 3:ag, I think you should take over right here so before, before I go, I'm gonna let sean finish his thought. You know I'm saying because he was.
Speaker 1:You know I'm saying I'm good, okay, um real, real quick.
Speaker 3:Before I get into who I think won, which, well, no, I answered that first. I think overall it was a tie. I think this is the only hip-hop battle that I will call a tie. Um, it was just like that, but me personally, I was ruling, uh, rooting for Jadakiss, the Locks, d-block and J-Hood Don't get it twisted. It was a problem around this time it was a problem.
Speaker 1:And rest in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Speaker 3:But one of my homies when I was in the dorms at college. He was from Philly. Rest in peace to Dan. You would have thought, have thought, when they went up there and did those freestyles and was killing every Nas Mobb Deep or what it locks be, you would have thought that state property was the Wu-Tang fan man. Because I never. Dan would remind me every day, like yo, they're killing your bulls, like you know what I mean. Like they're killing your bull, nas. They're killing your bulls Like you know what I mean. Like they're killing your bull, nas. They're killing your bull like Prodigy. You know what I'm saying. He would tell me every day but it was undeniable man.
Speaker 3:And what I got most out of that beef of the crews back and forth was, you know, street dudes, just real gutter rhymes going back and forth. But the youngins like was like 16, chris and neef was like 16, 17, they were like dogs on the mic and they were getting after it. You know I'm saying didn't even have albums out. Like they were, you know, starving for a deal or whatever and they was giving it their all. So that's what I took the most from it is the youngins like really, really cooking.
Speaker 3:But you know, if you, if you're not familiar with this battle, do yourself a favor, go on YouTube, type in D-Block versus state property and I'm sure it'll be like a playlist of 20 videos or more, because you'll hear every freestyle. That's why I said we lived in a great time with this draken um kendrick battle, where everything with social media is rapid fire, like, oh, 40 minutes later, kendrick drop and then the next day drop again, and then we get this and we get that, but it's not. There's nothing new under the sun. This is not something we haven't seen before. If you was alive during this battle back and forth, I'm telling you like, and I think some people have it mixed up too.
Speaker 1:It's not like Beans and his freestyle, like they weren't really taking shots at Nas, it was more the in-between talking shit.
Speaker 3:Right, it was, but the bars were in there. But, like I said, it's nothing new under the sun. Stuff was getting released literally every day. Nothing new under the sun. Stuff was getting released literally every day. If you couldn't get to the bodega and cop the mixtape that had all the joints compiled on there, all you had to do was it wasn't the youtube back then, but it was napster, it was limewire and you had the blogs, yeah, and you had kaza and you had the blog sites. That was like, it was like hip-hop game and you had um, allhiphopcom, yeah sohhcom yeah socom.
Speaker 3:It was the blogs like that that were on fire, because one joint would come out the next day. Less than 24 hours, another joint would come out, and joe budden even spoke to this on his podcast. They didn't care. It was like forget mixing and mastering, I'm going into the studio, I'm blazing, I'm getting back at this dude and then I'm putting the record out. You know I'm saying it was so rapid fire we couldn't keep up. So you know, a lot of people were going crazy over this drake and kendrick thing in that regard.
Speaker 3:But we lived that, you know I'm saying, 20 years ago, and what a time it was to be alive, man. It was really, really dope. I'll call it a draw. And you know I just wanted to, you know, highlight something real quick. We revisited this and this is something me and Sean always said. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:We got the time stone in our possession and, going into 2025, you know Hip hop talks want to give you all original content and you know what I'm saying. We wanted to revamp uh, discord dialogues a little bit. So, instead of really focusing on just specifically artists or, you know, producers or whatever, we want to focus on specific times in hip hop. You know what I mean, because events mark time and we have these big events that everybody, if you weren't there to live it, it's not a lot of pods out there covering stuff like this. You know what I'm saying. So we wanted to take it back, use the time stone and revisit this classic moment and give it to the people. You know what I'm saying, because we can't take for granted that everybody's familiar with this stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, give it to the people. You know what I'm saying, because we can't take for granted that everybody's familiar with this stuff. Well, you want to know what AG? I thought about something when you said something, and then we can go to our press play and finish up the hip-hop blog site world as we know it, this mixtape war and beef between them two has a lot to do with the existence of those sites and the hits that they got and the traction that they garnered that ended up turning into the youtube thing, because I know this ag for a fact.
Speaker 1:Every day you went on hiphopgamecom to see if somebody dropped a new dish, just like every single day I skipped class to like just be on those blogs, bro, just so we can get to a desktop and get to the audio, because this is back in the time where you couldn't get to that type of audio if you had a phone. Yes, weren't available, so you had to get to a desktop and, trust me, I was slinging burnt cds.
Speaker 3:I was trying to be the first one that had all them joints, burn them on a cd, then hit the campus and sell them joints. Man, for real, you'd have thought I was an artist, trying to be the first one to have all them joints, burn them on a CD, then hit the campus and sell them joints. Man, for real, you would have thought I was an artist trying to push my own stuff.
Speaker 1:For real, that's all I did every day I stayed with this cool-ass white boy who was a pie cap and he had this big-ass Mac computer. This is like some of the first Mac desktops. Them things used to be massive. They used them. Things used to be massive like they used to literally take up the whole desk, but he used to let me jump on on his line wiring on his website and on his internet. All the time and every day I would go and get on hip-hop game or hip-hop sitecom and see who dropped what. And this was start. This is kind of what started the whole youtube era before the youtube era.
Speaker 1:This is this is actually even a little bit before the myspace thing you'd like. So this is right around myspace, but this is a little bit before the. Myspace thing. This is right around MySpace, but this is a little bit before MySpace too. Guys had blown up and this was the thing, this was the move, and to your point.
Speaker 3:Coop, this was the undercard and if you was tuned into this you was really Ahead. Yeah, you was really ahead because the Jay-Z and Nas thing was so big. It was the main event. It was the main event, but this was arguably more entertaining and you was really ahead if you was tuned into this battle because they was really going for it. I just think that it doesn't get the publicity and the shine that it got because of Jay-Z and Nas, but this battle, kins and Beans was on the front lines.
Speaker 2:I think it did AJ.
Speaker 1:Some of it is timing, and this is what I mean. For a hip-hop head, you can actually say that the state prop D-block thing was more exciting because it was more engaging and more active. I can remember arguing about jay and oz before the beef happened in live time. We was already. We was already aggy with each other about that part of it. This was a pleasant surprise and so that's why I got the traction that it got like what jay and oz was doing.
Speaker 1:If you was paying attention, we all seen this coming since about 97, 98, right. So this was years in the making, the whole D-Block State prop thing popping up like that. And it popped up that day at Hot 9-7, it was like whoa. And then you started hearing the Locke story about the Reservoir Dog session and you're like, oh, there's some, oh there. And you're like, oh, there's some, oh, there's a little friction in here going on, because Beans is in that session, sauce is in that session, jay is in that session and that's also too where the ether bar you pop shit. Apologize, nigga. Just ask Kiss. This is the day that Nas is referring to about Jay apologizing about, because this is where they got disrespectful and D-Block hadn't said about state prop right.
Speaker 3:Well, here's the thing quite frankly, here's the thing to tie it up they didn't know yeah, yeah, they didn't know the rest of the cast.
Speaker 3:But to kind of tie it all in together, um, we talked about how drake went at all his ops and he should have just focused on more. So, on Kendrick and then Coop you alluded to like on takeover, jay should have focused a couple of verses on Nas versus a couple of verses on prodigy or whatever. But during that time Jay has so many ops that he had to like, okay, I'm gonna focus on prodigy, I'm going to focus on Nas. But Kiss was coming up the ranks too, because in 2001, other than Prodigy's solo, it wasn't nobody more anticipated than Kiss.
Speaker 3:Yes, it was anticipated, but Jay-Z knew not to bite off more than he could chew. Like yo, I'm going to have my hands full with Nas and P, pause. But like Beans, you go over there and you get that guy. You know what I'm saying, because Beans and Jada didn't have a problem, but Jay-Z needed Beans to go handle that while he took care of, like P and Nas, people who already had stakes somewhat acclaimed in New York's hierarchy. Jada Kidds hadn't staked any claim in that hierarchy yet really, he was right.
Speaker 1:Okay. So part of me does still feel like J put him up to the Bean side of things or to the Kiss side of things.
Speaker 3:Bean said that out of his own mouth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because if you really look at New York around that time, kiss is the guy who had next. Kiss was the guy that Big wanted to do more records with. Kiss was the guy that they were talking about lyrically being the next version of Nas. People forget this. Jay popping up and becoming part of this upper echelon conversation was a surprise. There were guys that were firmly stamped before Jay came along. Prodigy was stamped, ray was stamped, redman was stamped, meth was stamped, nas was stamped, big is stamped, pocket is stamped, snoop is stamped. Jay had to work for it. Jay is the guy that came into the fray and kind of messed up the motion of how things had been going and how the pace had been dictated. He was the unexpected guy. A lot of the moves that he's made have affected hip-hop for better or worse, whether you like it or not, because he was the guy who unexpectedly walked into the room sooner than expected.
Speaker 3:It's not only unexpectedly. Remember you said earlier about outworking your competition.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, no, no, no, he did that clearly. You want to know what my favorite bar is actually when he says and as far as progress, you'll be hard-pressed Find another rapper hot as me, because if you listen to this guy on In my Lifetime and then listen to this guy on In my Lifetime and then listen to the guy that knows how to rap over a sparse instrumentation like Friend or Foe, that is two totally different MCs and about 12 months time in 12 months time no no, no, I'm sorry his 12 month turnaround from 94 to 95 into 96.
Speaker 1:It's the greatest. It's the greatest jumping.
Speaker 3:And we and we talked about his competitive fervor. That's why, because Jada did have next. But if you're a rapper to an all time great rapper in a year but if you're Jay Z you looking at, okay, this is the guy they saying got next. I'm a stifle, Everything he's on. I'm going to come with the Fiesta remix. I'm going to come with the Best of Me remix.
Speaker 1:But that's because he's petty and he never had next. That's why I'm saying his jump is the great. We don't talk about it enough, because it's him. His jump as the MC is actually the greatest jump in hip-hop history. He went from being an average MC to an all-time great MC Him or Wayne Wayne's in that combo no, it happened for Jay in 18 months. It took Wayne years.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:It was years of an evolution, of Wayne changing and upgrading Jay, literally.
Speaker 2:He was just using the entity flow.
Speaker 3:That was the difference I think it was harder for Wayne because him being from down south, he had more going against him as far as traditional lyricists and up north New York rappers.
Speaker 1:But Wayne didn't have to switch pace the way Jay switched pace. Jay literally had to dial back hard guys. That's why I'm saying the guy that's rapping like, the guy that's rapping like is the same guy that's on friend or foe.
Speaker 3:A year later going friend or foe, yo state your biz, yeah All jokes aside, we crown him for the flow days, but I think that actually helped him. I think once he realized he wouldn't get traction with that, because if we name him the best flows ever in the game, jay-z's up there. I think everything got in slow motion for him, like Neo in the Matrix, where he's like you know what I'm saying, like this and catching bullets and doing all that. I think when Jay slowed it down, it was like everything was in slow motion for him.
Speaker 1:Even when this is what I mean about his growth slow motion for him. This is what I mean about his growth. You can even hear the growth on Reasonable Doubt. He is rapping slower on the Preem tracks, which you can tell came later than he is on the Clark Kent tracks. Go listen to. Can't Knock the Hustle. Y'all niggas munching, punching the clock. My function is to make munching. Sitting back, munching, sipping Remy on the rocks, my crew nothing to stop and wanting to watch Unstoppable scheme on your crew. I got.
Speaker 3:No, he's still rapping like that on.
Speaker 1:Reasonable Doubt. He's still rapping on that, like that song. So like his, yeah, the jump is. It's stellar guys. Sean, I know you hate that we waxing poetic. Okay, let's just go to press play and get out of here, let's go to press play and get out of here.
Speaker 3:88 Spence. Sean got a whole scowl on his face.
Speaker 1:Let's go, sean is so stand-alone right now. Let's just go to press play and end the show. Let's talk about the 88 Spence.
Speaker 2:Yo, 88 Spence went on when Jada said in Philly. He said send Seagull to Wyoming riding again. We're getting it on. Throw your man leg on the lawn and throw your man leg on the lawn, he can't walk. That was bold. I think Spence was in the crowd looking at him crazy.
Speaker 3:He got batteries and stuff, though they went crazy. They was throwing full soda cans at him.
Speaker 2:Spence threw a battery at him. Spence threw a battery at him. I bet it. Let's press, play guys, let's play AG. You got to kick us, so I had you line up first alright, no doubt I was in the holiday spirit.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying for my press play. I'm doing, yeah, christmas theme related joints going into the new year's first up. I got, you know, shoot them up. My nas off nostradamus, you know saying the interpolation of uh. You know carol of the bells, you know the christmas song and um, that's one of the highlights of nostradamus.
Speaker 3:I know this album gets uh panned a lot but that's one of the dopest joints on there. You know, yeah, havoc on the beat nas killed the flow and that interpolation of carol of the bells. They executed it perfectly but it's a grimy, grimy street track, you know, over a christmas melody. So love that joint and keeping that same energy. We talked about this uh record a few shows ago. Um, iron flag, another. It's a woo album. That's not that great but I love dashing reasons. Taking Jingle Bells and the melody and killing it the way that comes in on the verse that bodies it, followed by GZA. I love it when those two are on a track together, just them sparring. Love that track. You know what I'm saying. They killed the Jingle Bells melody.
Speaker 2:Next up What'd you say? Sean Never liked that song man.
Speaker 3:Oh, I love it. I think it's a dope way to end the album you don't like, dashing. Never liked it.
Speaker 1:I think it's one of the better songs on Iron Flag.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I thought it was a strong way to end the album.
Speaker 1:High five on that album.
Speaker 3:Yeah of them. Yeah, I agree, cool um. Next I got outcast players ball in, particularly the christmas version. A lot of people may not know that in late 93, christmas, 93, outcast debut, you know, for that single was on a la face compilation, la face family christmas, and the original version, which you'll never get here heard, played nowadays, you know I saying when the players ball is happening on Christmas Day. But to reach a wider audience and to keep the life of the track going, they changed it for the album version. They say all day, every day you know what I'm saying which was genius. But the origins of this track was for a Christmas compilation. A lot of people don't know that this is one of the greatest hip hop songs of all time. So got that joint on there. Now I can make ATL proud.
Speaker 1:Love that you know the history of it and the proper history of it.
Speaker 3:Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. And then for my last joint we talked about fab earlier and I can't speak enough about this track. Like who plays, uh, take it in blood. Every birthday, every new year's, I play this song ball drop by fab and french montana love this record. It's appropriate and what I will say, that young og project from fab for me personally. I don't know if y'all disagree, but that's one of the better projects of the last decade. It came out christ Christmas of 14.
Speaker 1:So you know what I'm saying? I was about to say when you talking, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it came out Christmas of 14. So it was a few days, you know older than a decade. But that whole project, a lot of people slept on that that whole project is fire from front to back.
Speaker 1:I slept on that project. I got to it late, you're right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that project is fire. Fab did his thing. He's going crazy on there, but every New Year's I revisit that song. When the ball dropped, that song comes on for me. Played it last night, I mean night before last, matter of fact, dope.
Speaker 2:You up, my man.
Speaker 1:You know, when I heard about the Discord dialogue thing I don't know if you guys noticed I'm a big fan of Beanie Siegel and I feel like what has happened to Beans is arguably the most tragic case in hip-hop history that doesn't involve somebody losing their life, because I feel like if this guy signs to anybody else around that time and if he can keep his legal difficulties at a minimum and by minimum I mean a TI minimum I think we are looking at one of the 10 greatest MCs of all time. Easy and a top five candidate. He is the only guy that I have heard post Nas and Jay in their prime that, just off of everything that he brings to the table, would present a problem to them in their prime. A legitimate problem, because he is more ferocious on the mic than both of them Delivery wise. Delivery wise, he is better than a prime Nas and comparable to a prime J. I will say this version of Nas that we have gotten during the hit boy run has a better delivery, but delivery wise he is better than nas, lyrically wise better than j, and so my press play is has is my favorite. Four solo records for him that have no features.
Speaker 1:So we're going to go to number one, which is Feel it In the Air. Feel it In the Air when is this? This is 2005? I think it's 2005. Right, yes, okay. So Feel it In the Air dropped as soon as the year started. It dropped this time in 2005. I can remember when Feel it In the Air dropped, saying to myself if rap songs are going to sound this great this year, we're about to have a great year. This was the first perfect record I heard in 2005. And I still think it's one of Bean's favorite records, and he even references this record in terms of recording it without writing it, which is one of the first records. He did like that because Jay had been working with him to make his flow sicker by not writing, and so he didn't write this record, and you can just hear where his delivery has just improved from him not writing the rhymes down anymore, which is crazy because his delivery was already sick.
Speaker 1:Next we got look at me now. Look at me now is actually my favorite beans song. It is one of the most underrated songs in his catalog. It is the song right before the song everybody talks about, which is the duo with Jay. It's on, but this is the song where you actually get the Philly version of beans. That actually explains his comeuppance from the streets to Rockefeller to actually the tribulations that he's going through to becoming a successful man from his circumstances. I love Look at Me Now. It's my favorite Beans record and these are all solo shots, by the way, he has no help, because I have other records that I love that I could have picked, like One Shot Deal with Redman, but these are all Beans solo shots because I think people really need to dig into Beans' catalog and see how truly brilliant he was.
Speaker 1:My next choice is what's your Life Like? Yeah, what's your Life Like? Yeah, what's your Life Like? Bar-wise is probably the best record on his debut album, the Truth.
Speaker 1:I think what's your Life Like epitomizes what Beans brings to the table as an MC. I think something that doesn't get stated often enough. Bean's got a lot of Ray in him. Like he gives you that gritty, unfiltered street talk the way Ray does. It just doesn't have the high slang. It's not the slang linguistics and the fly talk ain't his fly. He's a more gritty, grimier version of Ray, which seems crazy to say.
Speaker 1:But when I listen to what's your life like, I'm like this is the type of record ray would have put on the purple tape had he made it.
Speaker 1:And so what's your life like is a purple tape level like street record to me, because he literally is talking about what life is like for people like inside prison not jail but prison and, last but not least, a buck wild joint. This was the banger on the album that I think got everybody's attention. Stop chill this is beans kind of like in. This is a record where it's like, if you like street rap but you like to nod your head and you need it to be like not just super lyrical but you still need to feel the ethos of it, stop and Chill is Beans' level. To me this is the record that I feel like I wish he would have made more records like it because I think this is his lane and this is a lane that actually Jadakiss and Styles ended up filling, which I think is funny because of the beef. But stop and chill was my favorite record to actually like playing right around to off the truth. That an actual record, the truth. And I could have gone through more beans records, but those were my four.
Speaker 2:No no, all right. So I went with on new year's theme as well, and I wanted to start with Nas, new world, oh boss.
Speaker 3:Nah, this song is dope.
Speaker 2:This song is dope.
Speaker 3:This song is not good.
Speaker 2:It is a good song. You got to stop hating on this album. Everything he was saying on this song in hindsight makes sense. I love that song. You guys give out more In hindsight. Everything he was saying on this song in hindsight makes sense.
Speaker 1:Love that song. You guys give out more hall passes on Nostradamus than the freaking home economics teacher in 11th grade. This is the worst.
Speaker 2:It'll cost a lot one day.
Speaker 1:I'm not no.
Speaker 2:My second one was Perfect World from Myth. This is one of the first songs I actually kept playing. I was in boot camp when this album came out. In Perfect World, meth went crazy. He was going crazy and I actually remember hearing this song at an actual party, a New Year's Eve party and the DJ kept playing it over and over, kept playing it over and over, and this was like the kickoff to Takao 2000. Love, perfect World. I like Perfect World. Perfect World's a dope record. It gave me hope for the album. To be honest, I thought the album was going to be like you're doing this.
Speaker 1:Torture is what gave me hope for the album.
Speaker 2:Torture was dope yeah, spazzola for me Spazzola Party. Crasher, party, crasher Party, crasher was crazy too.
Speaker 3:Suspect. He got some joint suspects here. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:No, it's just too long. There are bangers on there. If he would have made Judgment Day as short as Takao, he'd have a banger on his hands.
Speaker 2:He was a skit scoop. He had many skits Skits been all through his life.
Speaker 3:It's a lot like this Muddy Waters too, if we're being honest.
Speaker 2:Just like it Actually.
Speaker 1:Think about it. Spazzola, suspect Chim Music Play for Keeps. Like you know, he had Party Crasher. He had about eight or nine or ten bangers on there. Drop the ten bangers, give us three skits.
Speaker 3:The Angelo joint was a dope single too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Break Up the Makeup. I like that record Shout out to Street Life.
Speaker 3:Street Life did his thing on that album all through the seven joints.
Speaker 1:Street Life did his whole thing through that whole little era where he was running with Matt Paffey. Actually he didn't get enough credit he was.
Speaker 2:This one is 50 Cent. Happy New Year. Not sure if you guys heard this one before. Try not to listen to it.
Speaker 1:No, this is a dope record.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately it's not on Apple and we are going to put our playlist on Apple and we're going to post it for you guys. I did ask AG to do an alternate. I'm going to make another alternate, ag, if you don't mind, because 50 Cent Happy New Year would not be on the Apple playlist or even the Spotify playlist. So we're going to replace it with Jay, because one of the joints I love with Jay actually he did it with the Kid Capri and it's like that Love that joint. I thought Jay went crazy on it. Like that I'm going to hop, skip and jump, rip and pump.
Speaker 1:We're just happy that it's 2025 and you're giving Jay-Z some sort of credit.
Speaker 2:Always give Jay props. That's the problem. Y'all don't pay attention when I give him props.
Speaker 1:You don't pay attention to how you be talking. I need you to come back and watch this show.
Speaker 2:It's a top five MC, top five MC, but still Queens get the money. But Jay went crazy on. It's like that.
Speaker 1:You were from Corona, Queens. That is close to Brooklyn. I've been looking at my map. Not close enough, he said. I've been looking at my map.
Speaker 2:Geography. I told you I was a nerd.
Speaker 1:I looked, I was like Corona, I'm like, hold on. I'm like hold on, nigga. I'm like, oh, this nigga can get on the train and he's right there.
Speaker 2:He was circling it on the map. I respect Jay, but y'all know I gotta protect home. I gotta protect home man. I respect Jay though you gotta protect home. Shout out to Nir bin Al-Udaira.
Speaker 3:Wow, it's time to go.
Speaker 1:No, it's time to go. Don't give him another shot.
Speaker 2:My last song actually is funny because I heard a snippet of this song because Swizz was actually playing it on New Year's night on Instagram and it was Nino man featuring Jada, and I was listening to this song, man, and I just zoned out listening to this, so I don't know if you guys heard it yet. So if you get a chance, please, listen to this.
Speaker 3:I haven't heard it, but I think you will love it. That's happening anytime. Jada, on a feature, I'm with it. You know what I'm saying. Right, right, right right, right.
Speaker 1:No, I didn't catch that one. I'm going to check in when we get done.
Speaker 2:It's a dope joint. It's a dope joint and again, it's one of those joints where I like to try to do when I press play, I like to try to drop a gem or what have you, and I'm glad I stumbled on this one. I hope Nino man can actually get something going, having Jada on his album. I think he was torn with Jada as well over the past year or so and I hope you can get some some momentum behind him. But this is a dope record right here. Dope message it's the kind of energy that I think I'm going to be on in 2025. And it was. It was dope man. So shout out to Nino man. But that's my press play.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, don't miss Idle Gray. Tell Coop man. He said Corona is a world away. It's a world away, man. Corona is a whole different place. Man Yo Nino Idle man.
Speaker 1:Yo Nino Idle Grace Looks like a 30-minute train ride to me nigga, but okay.
Speaker 2:So far away. Man Looks like 30 minutes, Looks like 30 minutes.
Speaker 1:It look like 30 minutes. I know how to read a map? Not at all.
Speaker 2:Idle Grace said that, nino managed from his hood. Salute, salute.
Speaker 1:So fellas, fellas, any parting shots. First show of the year, great show.
Speaker 3:No doubt Real quick. Check out my man, sales McFly, new beat tape. He going for the three peak. You know what I'm saying. Sales McFly on Twitter. You don't say on Twitter yeah, yeah, hero in Business, part 3. Check it out on Audio Mac. You know what I'm saying. He got some heat. If you're an aspiring rapper, check out the homie Shout out to.
Speaker 1:Selza and Fly Selza. I'm going to catch a wreck on one of your beats this year. That's my word. He's got heat man For real.
Speaker 3:This is the third installment.
Speaker 1:I'm going to snatch one of these beats and catch one, because I actually have been writing some bars, again low-key. I don't even know where they've been coming from, they've just been coming to me when it comes.
Speaker 3:They're. Sean Disses it's okay. No, no, no.
Speaker 1:I am planning for those. This is the art of war. I'm talking about what comes to me naturally as an artist. I'm not talking about. I'm not talking. I'm not shh. Ag our plot to take Sean down. Keep that shh don't.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's crazy man. Keep that, keep that, that's. Oh, that is wow.
Speaker 3:Yo, that's the one Sean has to fly, and do his little, that's but yeah, but that's it. Though. You know, check out the homie sales mcfly if you haven't tapped into his beats yet you know, I'm saying he got, he got some heat.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna check out sales. I vow to be on twitter and discord dialogues this year but, all jokes aside, last year was a rough year. I mean, you guys know it. I suffered a lot of family and familial and friend loss it was a really, really rough year. I'm looking forward to jumping back in the fray. I will be on Twitter and Discord Dialogues this year. That's bad for all you sucker-ass podcasters out there, beware. Alright, put it in the air.
Speaker 2:We got a super chat on 88 Spins.
Speaker 1:Shout out to 88 Spins 88,.
Speaker 2:We need your. We need your playlist 88 when I post it. You need your playlist out there too.
Speaker 1:I hope your list is better than Jack's. Whack ass list 88 Spence. Alright, go look at Jack's list we talking about the press play. Okay, no, no, I just want to step on Jack's list every chance I get we gonna put the Spotify and the Apple links up.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying here shortly.
Speaker 2:Life goals.
Speaker 1:Can we get some station heads cracking this year? I believe I have some unsub will be. You guys have had Hold on. What's that shit? Y'all talking about the cow versus the pillage, was that y'all?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, put that on the docket. And then I was going to beat you with I Am vs Volume 3 and then call it low. And then I'm doing Kiss the Game, goodbye vs the Thug Motivation, whatever you want to do all three of those.
Speaker 1:I want to do all three of those that's wild Kiss the. Game Goodbye vs 101.
Speaker 2:I'm going to call it right now. I want to call out Idiot Spence. Philly vs New Spence, philly versus New York. What up Philly don't want to do that. What up, what up.
Speaker 1:Spence. The Black Thought and the Roots Records is not going to get it. They ain't going to get it. Spence, not enough against all of New York Not enough Spence.
Speaker 2:I would go Queens.
Speaker 1:You mean like really Philly versus New York, like.
Speaker 2:You mean, like really Philly versus New York, like we're not going to pick a borough? You know what Spence I'll give you all of Philly. I'll just take Queens. I'll just take Queens, I'll take Queens they got.
Speaker 3:Black Thought Eve they got. Allstate Prop they got.
Speaker 2:If you want to use Eve, I guess.
Speaker 1:Whoa, don't do that, don't do that, don't do that right now.
Speaker 3:So this has been Hip Hop.
Speaker 1:Talks that's my first talk.
Speaker 2:That's my first talk.
Speaker 3:If you got to go in the bag and get Gilly, then yeah, you lost, if you go in the bag and get Gilly. That's my first talk.
Speaker 2:We got to go man, thank You're going to die. That's my hurt talking. We got to go, man, thank you all for coming out. We got to go.
Speaker 1:Subscribe to the page. Happy New Year, everybody.
Speaker 2:It's been fun.
Speaker 1:It's been real.
Speaker 2:We appreciate y'all. Thank you for the super chat.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:That's love. Subscribe, like, share, subscribe, get the word out, tell a friend to tell a friend. Let the other folks know we are not responding to the noise 2025, we're focusing on hip-hop talks and the movement. We got a lot of stuff going on.
Speaker 1:I really don't even know what's going on and I'm glad.
Speaker 2:But if Sean makes you feel, uncomfortable just blink twice and I promise, put the bat signal in the air.
Speaker 1:So you got to blink twice and put the bat signal in the air. There'll be some dusty ass rich white man to come save you, because my black ass ain't coming. Happy New Year.
Speaker 2:Yes, shout out to yo prayers for New Orleans. Prayers for New Orleans.
Speaker 1:Yes, I don't know Prayers for New Orleans. I don't know Prayers for New Orleans, seriously.
Speaker 2:Prayers for Queens. There was a shooting in Queens last night as well. Prayers for Houston. There was a bomb actually on I-85 where I'm at, going towards from Charlotte to Atlanta in that corridor. A lot going on in 2025. A lot going on in 2025. It's been two days. How did we do all?
Speaker 1:of this in two days.
Speaker 2:Not a good way to start. Two days already. Clf we are doing Collapse. We got all of those things on the dock. There's a lot going on for Hip Hop Talks. Coop got a show coming out really soon on rap. You're going to get Coop unhinged unprotected. All of that. It's going to be raw uncut. Unprotected is wild.
Speaker 1:On that note, y'all don't make me leave the live early again. Cut the tape with that wild shit. On that note, remember stay positive, test negative. This has been Hip Hop Talks, Good night.
Speaker 2:Good night. Your spits going to smoke your boots in that battle, oh my.
Speaker 1:God.