DJ PREMIER'S MOMENT OF TRUTH? // Rufus Sims Interview, ODB, Meth, Red, Wu, Beans, & MORE!

Chapters

• 0:41 Episode Introduction and Bar Seminar
• 10:37 Celebrating Beans' 'The Becoming' Album
• 21:36 Carmelo Anthony's Hall of Fame Legacy
• 38:43 Best Female Guest Verses Debate
• 59:15 Interview with Chicago Artists Ill City and Rufus
• 1:54:57 DJ Premier Beat Battle: Moment of Truth vs Big, Jay, Nas

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:41

Yo yo Yo, what up people. Welcome to Hip Hop Talks. Yo yo, it'd be crazy Like I've been doing this for five years, Like how you going people. Everybody knows who I am already. Everybody knows who y'all are too, and everybody watches us. That's why our views match. Our subscribe, our subscribers, Speaking of which, hit like, share, subscribe, tell a friend, tell somebody that you don't like Maybe you don't like coop and you think to yourself there's somebody else that I don't like Coop. And you think to yourself there's somebody else that I don't like in my life, but they might like Coop because I don't like Coop and I don't like that person. Put the people that you don't like together Click like and subscribe to the page.

Speaker 1: 1:40

Yeah, do something productive with all that hate you got in your heart. It's a dedicated to the coalition Right.

Speaker 3: 1:50

Right Hashtag. That's a new strategy. I haven't heard of that one Cool, but if it works, yeah, put all your haters together, hashtag, fuck your team.

Speaker 2: 2:00

We're going to uh, we're going to kind of kick things off. We're going to format things a little bit differently today, guys. We're kind of actually going to start off by doing something that we always share on Twitter every week to actually start off the mornings before the show, which is the Bar Seminar. For those of you who are not familiar with the Bar Seminar, the Bar Seminar is Sean, ag and I's essential hip-hop quotable for the month or for the week. So every week, sean picks a verse, ag picks a verse, I pick a verse, and that's kind of our bar seminar for the week. This week, I actually picked somebody who we are going to be talking about frequently throughout the course of this show Old Dirty Bastard's verse on Brooklyn Zoo. Old Dirty Bastard's verse on Brooklyn Zoo.

Speaker 2: 2:46

Like most people in our age demographic in bracket who are familiar with Old Dirty Bastard, this is probably the song that we're most synonymous with in terms of his rapping style. Would that be a fair assessment in terms of, like the actual rapper? That is ODB? This is the song that we associate with that, and so this is my bar seminar, because I'll never forget when I was in 10th grade and Michael Hubbard and I were having an argument about who the best rapper in Wu-Tang was, and he was like, well, when old dirty bastard raps, he's the best rapper.

Speaker 2: 3:22

And I was like, nah. He was like go listen to Brooklyn Zoo. And every time I listen to Brooklyn Zoo I go back to when he says that and I always say to myself it's like well, I don't know if he's right, but he damn sure not wrong. Every time after I listen to Brooklyn Zoo that was my bar seminar for the week was Old Dirty Bastard with Brooklyn Zoo, and we'll be unpacking that a little bit further a little bit later on in the show. But that's what I got to get us kicked off CG yeah, man, um, I picked Inspector Deck, another Wu-Tang member, off.

Speaker 3: 3:54

Uh, above the Clouds, a feature record on an album that we'll talk to again later. Um, uh, talk about again later is a moment of truth. And this record always fascinated me. It's actually my favorite dj premiere beat of all time and I know you know he has a plethora of beats you can pick from, but this is my personal favorite. But this song always fascinated me because, you know, the who kept everything in house, you know, even features.

Speaker 3: 4:22

They would never really jump outside of the camp, you know, and this is what I consider to be one of Dex's best verses of his career, and it's not even on a Wu record, you know what I'm saying. So, and it was just dope to hear him on something that wasn't a RZA production, so it was refreshing in its own way. If I heard Deco on Pete Rock production or premiere production, it was, you know, it was something in its own way. If I heard deck on Pete rock production or premier production, it was, you know, it was something to get excited about. Inversely, how we talked about on the last show, biggie ramen over RZA production on long kiss, good night. You know what I'm saying so cause they kept everything so in house. So, yeah, that was my bar seminar for the week. My my, you know, butter clouds. My favorite primo beat and deck is my favorite woo member of all time and this is one of his top verses. In my opinion, he killed it without my.

Speaker 1: 5:15

I had to double dip on my fellas. I had to go with um once again. It's on for jay and beans. Um, I really, really wanted just to give it to Beans, but Jay went crazy on here as well.

Speaker 2: 5:29

He wasn't as potent and as surgical as Beans.

Speaker 1: 5:32

But Jay's moxie on his once again his own is ridiculous. You know what I mean. Beans came into. I feel like Beans came into this song wanting to prove a point that not only can he spar with Jay, but he can get the best of them if they're going back and forth, because he took the bulk of the song like he had the bulk of the bars, of course, in his joint. I think it was like two to one ratio when it came to the bars.

Speaker 1: 5:56

But Jay's moxie and his confidence, and this again, what? 2005, when this album came out you know by this time he's on like. You know he's somewhere else at this point. He's somewhere else as, as a legend. Um solidified everything, og all of that, and he just came in and did his one, two step and still has some of the best quotables on that song. Although beans did a phenomenal job throughout the entire song and I know, cook, this is one of your favorite albums of beans as a whole andans went crazy on this album, but once again, this song really told me then. It was like the. To me it was like a full circle moment for Beans, because it showed you how great of a lyricist and as a deliverer, that Beans really is amongst one of the greatest bitches, james, so I really want to dump a dip on that one All right, Pete.

Speaker 2: 6:45

First of all, Sean, we're proud of you for giving Jay some props. I'm actually putting Jay in a bar seminar. We are so very proud of you today. He's my top five.

Speaker 1: 6:57

He's my top five AG.

Speaker 2: 7:01

I think that Dex's verse on Above the Clouds might be a top five verse for him, and that's saying a lot. It's definitely top 10. It might be top five. I can only think of three Top five. I can only think of three verses that I prefer over it AG, so you might be right. It might be my fourth, so it might be top five.

Speaker 3: 7:18

We might be perfectly aligned on that. I got triumph over it, I got guillotines over it, and then I got protect your neck over it.

Speaker 2: 7:29

Okay, see, okay, so I might have protect your neck right after it. I'm going to tell you the verse that I love of his. I love his verse on Duel of the Iron Mike on Liquid Swords that's fire. Yeah, I love the verse on Duel of the Iron Mike that's fire. Yeah, I love the verse on Duel of the Iron Mike, but it's R-Duel. Yeah, those are all great bar seminars this week, fellas.

Speaker 3: 7:54

Do y'all think the Beans sorry my fault. Do y'all think the Beans and J-Collab is their best? I personally do.

Speaker 1: 8:00

I think it's number one If it's just those two. Yes, Not Adam.

Speaker 2: 8:07

You want to know what it is. That's one of those underrated duo songs that doesn't get talked about enough, kind of like a double trouble by most. In thought on, things fall apart where it's like two guys really just get busy, really just get busy. And one of the beautiful thing about that that record and why I'm bringing up the thought and uh and yassine record is because you can hear the guys competitively feeding off of each other in a healthy way on those records. And so when you're sean, when you're talking about um, jay is jay's moxie, it's like oh no, he hasn't wrapped with beans in about a year or so. You know what I'm saying. It's been a no, he hasn't wrapped with beans in about a year or so.

Speaker 2: 8:45

You know what I'm saying. It's been a minute since he's actually wrapped with beans around this time of memory, sir. And so he probably did walk in there. Do you know what I'm saying? Like Jay's always bringing his game. He did. Yeah, it was like hold on, it was one of those moments where it's kind of like. It's one of those things where it's last year in the playoff, where you know, and Edwards idol is Kevin Durant, but they're on the court now and it's looking at Katie like and you know Katie's still in his prime, but at the end of his prime and eight's at the peak of his powers right now. That's what the Beans' J record is like. It's like oh no.

Speaker 2: 9:29

J's still going to get you 30. J's going to get you 30, but Ant's about to make him work for that 30, guys, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1: 9:37

That's not an easy 30.

Speaker 2: 9:41

Not an easy 30. Not an easy 30.

Speaker 1: 9:44

In the past, that's the layout for Jay In the past.

Speaker 2: 9:46

Right, that's what I'm saying. It's like, oh no, kd going to get 30 on hand, but it's like, oh no, they're coming on 25 shots. He usually get 30 on 18 shots, yeah.

Speaker 3: 9:53

But that was a perfect analogy. But to your point earlier, Sean, about the two-to-one ratio on the bars, that's like KD getting his 30 on less shots, if you feel what I'm saying when less is more Great point.

Speaker 2: 10:11

I think Beans may have caught him by surprise, because, Sean, I agree with you on this too. That is that moment where you realize it's like oh shit, Beans is an all-time great MC. Yeah, he's just not like this era great. It's like oh no, he's all time great he's all time okay, it's all time great.

Speaker 2: 10:32

So yeah, and speaking of which, we have anniversary of what I feel like his best album. On march 29, 2005, he released the becoming 20 year anniversary for the album. This is is his best project in my opinion. I could go on days about it. I think anybody who follows me follows this show knows that Beans is one of my personal favorites. Hold him up high Feels like he could have been top five all time if not for some personal problems and personal troubles and a certain CEO slash rap artist. So, with that being said, what are your favorite records on the Becoming and what is your favorite verse on the Becoming? Sean, kick it off.

Speaker 3: 11:13

You want to go AG. Oh yeah, for me you know we talked about it's on that's my second favorite record behind Feel it In the Air. I think Feel it In the Air is one of the greatest cerebral hip-hop songs of all time. You know, I'm saying, if that makes sense, like beans really locked in for that song and I think that's his magnum opus as far as like solo records, you know, I mean his highest performance. Um, as far as, as far as the album as a whole, I do think this is his best work. Uh, you know, I'll give it a four and a half. It's very close to a five.

Speaker 3: 11:54

Um, I just think when I, when I think about this album, I get a little bit upset about it because it came at a bad time. I try to imagine if this album, when it came out circa 2002 or 2000, going into 2003, when the Rock were still flourishing before the breakup it was just a lot of things surrounding this album. He didn't want it released when it was. It was during the Rockefeller fallout. He was in jail, it was just so many things that marred this release. It was, it was during the rockefeller fallout. He was in jail, it was just so many things that marred this release, and it was just um, it was just a bad look, man. I think this. I think in the annals of hip-hop, this album would get held a lot higher if it didn't come out during all that turmoil that was going on with himself as well as his uh you know um label mates.

Speaker 1: 12:45

So yeah no, I agree, man. One of my joints on here is all one shot deal, um. And I also love purple rain, the bum b. It's hard. Purple and bumpy is crazy man. Again, that's beans going into a different pocket and that's showing that he can rhyme along, round along anybody, anyone. And I've always felt that, even with this, he also had a joint with Cam on here. The last song of the album with Cam on here after his own.

Speaker 2: 13:14

Yeah, running is crazy, crazy, Crazy.

Speaker 1: 13:18

Running is almost as good as it's on. Yes, because Cam showed up and you think about all the features that you have on this album from Snoop Bun B, Cam Free, of Course. I think Petey is on there. Petey, Moschino, Redman, Redman. Everyone knew when you get on this record with Beans, you got to bring your A-game. No one mailed it in because you had to come with your A game with beans. If you don't come right with beans, you're going to get destroyed with beans, and this is 2005. This is beans.

Speaker 1: 13:52

I don't want to say past its prime, but to your point, AG, it was marred in a lot of the stuff that was going on with the Rock. The Rock at this time was done, to be quite honest. A lot was going on. So you kind of he's in the middle of all of that. He got Dame on one side, Jay on the other side. Kanye is out of here. You know Dipset has taken off by now. There's a lot going on and Beans was kind of left behind in all of that stuff Because when Kanye took off, Beans kind of took a step back Because he was no longer Jay's sidekick at that point or Jay's side-by-side with Jay anymore. Kanye took that spot.

Speaker 3: 14:32

And it was a lot of pressure on this as well, because wasn't this the first release on Dame Dash Music Group? Wasn't this the first release?

Speaker 1: 14:39

I think it was yeah, this is post. Yeah, this is post-everything, this is post-graduation 2005.

Speaker 3: 14:46

Right, because when they split I know that the first thing that the ones who went with Jay went I know the Bleak album and the Young Guns album came out under Jay, but I think the Beans album was what came out under Dame but, like I said, it couldn't even be promoted right with the situation going on with them or whatever. So it was a lot of pressure in that too. Um, being the first release on the dame dash music group, unless I'm mistaken, but I think it is the first release and in real time, even though the split had already like happened happened.

Speaker 2: 15:19

It was being pitched us like it was still ongoing.

Speaker 3: 15:23

Exactly, it was still unfolding.

Speaker 2: 15:26

Right. The split had already happened behind closed doors. It was getting presented to us like a sprain or a fracture. It's like, oh no, that shit broke. See you niggas, See you niggas. Right, that's not how it got kicked to us.

Speaker 2: 15:43

Sean, I want to piggyback off one one of your thoughts with with my a couple of mine. First of all, I think the best actual verse on this album is actually means verse on one shot deal. I love one shot deal. I think that's the verse on this album that would be the bar seminar I would pick from this album.

Speaker 2: 16:03

It's hard to stun on Redman, especially when Redman's a feature artist, but that's actually my point about this album. Beans actually got the best of everybody on this album and that's how you know he had ascended to all-time great MC status Because, well, Redman, Cam, Jay, Puba, Bun B, Skino, Petey Well, none of them sound as good as Beans do and he actually did an excellent job about putting the artist in the right places. And so I think in Snoop, even on Don't Stop, and I think one of the more underrated moments of this album and I agree with your four and a half rating, AG is actually the placement of the artist on the songs Bun B on the Purple Rain Joint that's perfect placement for Bun. You know. Puba on Bread and Butter that's perfect placement. Who?

Speaker 3: 16:53

else, like nobody was even reaching out to Puba around that time. Like he's one of the most popular, oh no.

Speaker 2: 17:01

He pulled that one out Like Puba on Bread and Butter is like the rabbit in the hat on the album where it's like ooh, I wasn't expecting to get that. The aha moment.

Speaker 2: 17:12

Yeah, that was like oh nice, pull, nice play. This is booked in. This album is booked in. I know the album ends with the Jay feature and with the Cam feature, but for me the album is booked in by his two best records. In my opinion and that's Feeling in the Air. And Look at Me Now these are the type of records that I feel like only a prime Scarface could achieve, and I think he might even be more lyrically inclined at his peak than a prime Scarface. Just lyrically speaking, I agree.

Speaker 3: 17:43

With the wordplay, with the wordplay With the wordplay and the verbiage.

Speaker 2: 17:48

And so look at me now and feel it in the air are his one and two records. For me they're both on this album and he's just special special on those records because he's the MC's MC on there. But he's also thoughtful. He's also insightful. He's also insightful. He's also pulling at some of your heart strings. He's also giving you game. Read their body language 85%. Communication non-verbal 10%. You know their story. Man, love the five-time show. You just know you pull their strings. You're the puppet master. Fuck them. Other bastards. Now watch who you puffin' after. That's woo.

Speaker 2: 18:29

As far as some rap shit go, it doesn't get much better than Feel it In the Air, in my opinion. I can remember when this album came out. This record was one of the first records to drop. It dropped like January of that year. It was the first record that I heard that year. I was like that record's a classic, like instantly. And so first record that I heard that year, I was like that record's a classic, instantly, wonderful piece of work. I could go on and on about what his career could have been and should have been. I still think he's a Hall of Fame MC. And speaking of the Hall of Fame. In this week's news we have Carmelo Anthony, six-time All-NBA, multiple All-Tar selection, three-time gold medalist, ncaa champion and tournament most valuable player, rightfully and dutifully so elected to the Hall of Fame. I think he's still on the top 10 scoring list, even though KD just recently passed him and bumped him down from ninth to 10th. So what do you all think about Melo getting into the Hall of Fame?

Speaker 1: 19:24

I'm happy for him. Man, Pure bucket Can score at every layer, every level on the basketball court. I've always wished that Melo got to push the NBA game to LeBron Maybe not the same push because LeBron is LeBron, but just something to help him get that. Push, man, Because that rookie year he should have got rookie of the year or at least co-rookie of the year, like they did Grant Hill and Jason Kidd back in the day.

Speaker 1: 19:50

Even when I look at his son, you know, kyan Anthony. They put a report out today that he was not selected for the McDonald's All-American right, but they gave it to Bronny. That's neither here nor there, but it just it feels that Melo, the NBA never got behind Melo and I feel like in his first year in Denver and his second and third year in Denver he made Denver a legit contender as soon as he stepped foot on that court and Denver wasn't really nothing before he got there. They were, like, you know, just trying to figure out, find the pieces, and that's why they had that number three pick, of course, but for me, melo, I think because he went and got the bag as he should.

Speaker 1: 20:34

He didn't do the super team thing. I mean, he was supposed to be, you know, there before Chris Bosh. It may have hurt his legacy overall, but I do wish that he would have gotten a championship, but he did it his way. I don't think he regret it. He did it his way. Love Melo man. So happy for him to get the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2: 20:53

AG, you mind if I go and you can finish this up with the Melo talk.

Speaker 3: 20:56

Go ahead Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 20:58

So this is from somebody who was raised in Atlanta and was my favorite player growing up. He's this generation's Dominique Wilkins, in my opinion, and listen to what I'm about to say. Oh, if you ask the people who played with him and played against him, oh, they have him at the highest of the highs. Like go ask Larry Bird and Michael Jordan what they think of Dominique Wilkins. They'll talk to you end on end with praise. You know, those are two top 10 players. In one case, the goat, you know. The other guy's the only person to win the MVP three times in a row. So to me he's one of those people and we just kind of bought this guy up to heat. In a lot of ways he's very much that guy. In rap terms, he would be Scarface, you know it's like oh no guy. In rap terms he would be scarface. You know, it's like oh no, he might not be on your number one list, but your number one rapper. Love that dude and how he gets buckets.

Speaker 2: 21:52

I think when it comes to nba basketball, we have to kind of separate. Basketball is sourced out to hype more than any other sport. Sport is sourced out for one thing, you know. So I think, centers and conversations involving centers and all other players should be separated. And so if you take the centers out of it, so you're taking Will Kareem, russell, Yoke, mb, the team shack, you taking those guys out. As far as scores of the basketball are concerned, oh no, he belongs in the category with Kobe and Jordan and Durant and Iverson and Bernard King and George Girvin and like that select of just when they got the rock in their hands, it's like pretty much Bucket Bucket. You know what I'm saying. He is one of those guys and so if you were talking about one of the 10 best pure scorers of all time non-center he would be on that list, and so he's a pretty special player.

Speaker 3: 22:55

He is. Yeah, absolutely, klub, you cooked that Me. Personally, I would liken Mello more to a Jadakiss. You know I hold both very high and feel like they don't get the credit that they deserve. Mello is my second favorite player of all time that I've ever watched. Now I know, before the chat starts going crazy, that he's not the second greatest player of all time, but as far as my personal favorites, since I've been watching basketball when I was a real small kid Melo's my second favorite, behind none other than Michael Jordan, and I think that you know what Melo brought to the table.

Speaker 3: 23:33

You know, say what you want about his defense, but on the offensive side of the basketball, I personally don't think it's anybody to do it better because it's nothing that he couldn't do. You know he was pretty efficient as a three-point shooter free throw For his size. His first step's crazy. Like you said, he can score in a phone booth. He can shake you out of your boots without even taking a dribble. You know what I'm saying Get to the basket, dunk on you.

Speaker 3: 24:00

That second jump on a putback was crazy fast, like he doesn't present as athletic as he you know really is and he would give people fits Like like Coop said. You asked like the Paul Pierce's of the world, kobe's Paul George, a top tier defender. He was a nightmare to to defend and I only slightly put them over your boy Durant, coop, because you know Durant's a little bit better efficient of a three-point shooter or free throw but Melo in his postgame, and his power and what he's able to do on the block and go up against forwards and bully them on the block, that's the one key element that I think he slightly edges Durant on, you know but he's one of the best AG.

Speaker 2: 24:46

I was actually thinking to myself Durant and Melo are the best all-time scorers at all the levels, as in at the free throw line, at the mid-range, at the three-point line. I would argue back with you that although Melo is the better post player obviously due to size and girth uh, because they're fundamentally comparable kb is the better three-point shooter. He is the better free throw shooter, he is the best. This sounds crazy to say this. Even with mellow. Now kb's the better mid-range shooter, because kb might be the best mid-range shooter ever, guys right, you know him or mj, but I'm not.

Speaker 3: 25:23

I'm not gonna squabble if you got mellow or duran is the best pure score overall he's got a better field goal percentage all the time he's more.

Speaker 3: 25:31

He's more efficient, for sure, but I just love watching mellow mj took way more shots, but yeah yeah, I just, I just like watching mellow with his first step in his jab step series and all that stuff, like he could just like guard him. You want an island bro, like. But one thing about it it's like well deserved him getting into the hall of fame. People want to talk about, you know, him not having a championship or whatever, but all his other accolades is there. You know, as a freshman leading Syracuse to a title, been a fan ever since then he got, you know, all Olympic gold medals.

Speaker 3: 26:04

I hate to be the woulda, coulda, shoulda guy, but to Sean's point, I do think it was a concerted effort to make Melo the antithesis of LeBron, because I think if you got the second pick in Detroit with Joe Dumars, I wonder if the league called him and said, yo, you got to take Darko Milichev, because I don't think that's a call you make in sound judgment. If Melo's on the board and if Melo goes to that Detroit team you know, constructed as they were, he probably has at least two rings and him and LeBron are battling in the East also with Wade. But I personally think that they wanted Melo out west to clear a path for LeBron because nobody saw d way coming, like you know, uh, the player he became, but real quick. You know we forget about the stops. I think it was the um stop snitching dvd and then mellow was on.

Speaker 3: 26:55

There was a lot of turmoil, like I think you know, and god, god rest his soul. Rest peace to david. Sir, I didn't. I think that david stern didn't want a repeat of like what he had with iverson, so he took certain steps to kind of, you know, stifle mellow, if you will, and that continued through his whole career. Like I'm a bulls fanatic, you know, and I held phil jackson as the greatest coach there ever was, but when, when he was an executive for New York, how he did Mello during that tenure, spreading the narratives about him and all that stuff that made me look at Phil in a different light. And I didn't really rock with Phil that much after that, you know, because Mello didn't deserve that.

Speaker 1: 27:39

That's a super chat, fellas.

Speaker 2: 27:40

Yeah, let's get out my head, sean. Let's knock out some of these super chats before we get lost. Go ahead, pull them up, run it, run it, run it, raising head, rank the verses on guess who's back? I'll take that. I'll take that. I actually think Scarface is my number one on there and then. Jay man, come on, man, don't do that. From the womb to the tomb, a hot pot of jar and a spoon, trying to make me 40,000 and move. No, no, it's face he was spent.

Speaker 3: 28:18

But I give you this though Jay's ability to out swag everybody like he. All he had to do was compete lyrically. He would just out swag everybody on the song finesse is way through it worked more often than it did.

Speaker 2: 28:35

I'm going face Jay Beans, but if you want to go, jay, that's fine. I'm not going to argue with you. Super chat.

Speaker 1: 28:41

I go Beans Jay.

Speaker 3: 28:43

No, beans facing Jay oh, so we all three got a different number that shows you how dope the song is.

Speaker 2: 28:48

Yeah. It's a great record, yeah, artist, formerly known as Kanye West, the Raisin Head Mellow or T-Mac, and did he underachieve Mellow for me? I mean actually for me. I will tell you like I was always a big McGrady fan and for me McGrady was only the only person when Kobe was active that actually could bust Kobe ass and guard Kobe at the same time.

Speaker 1: 29:16

He was an animal man.

Speaker 2: 29:17

And I think there's something to be said for that. I think Melo, objectively, is the greater all-time player, but I'm taking T-Mac.

Speaker 3: 29:26

Yeah, t-mac had a lot of length pause, but I don't think it's fair to compare him because of injuries. I like the Dominique Wilkins comparison you said earlier, coop, but the injuries that T-Mac had I don't think that's a fair comparison for him because Melo was, he had a lot of minor injuries but he was relatively healthy most of his career.

Speaker 3: 29:45

But let me ask you this real quick before we move on. I saw on ESPN today. They were talking about the best players to never get a ring and they were asking if Melo would make that top 20, which is an absurd question. But you know, I personally think Melo would be in the top five NBA players of all time to never get a ring. I have three or four people above him.

Speaker 1: 30:08

I won't put him in the top five.

Speaker 3: 30:11

You don't think he tracks that top five.

Speaker 2: 30:14

No, elgin Bailey, yeah, I got him both above Elgin. You have him over Elgin Bailey, I do. I got Barkley Malone Stockton Eone.

Speaker 1: 30:26

Stockton Ewan. Stockton John. Stockton Ewan.

Speaker 2: 30:33

You don't think Carmelo Anthony is better than John Stockton all the time?

Speaker 3: 30:38

He had Carl Malone, though. No, no, no.

Speaker 2: 30:42

I've been explaining this to everybody my entire life.

Speaker 3: 30:45

John.

Speaker 2: 30:45

Stockton didn't have Karl Malone. Karl Malone had John Stockton.

Speaker 3: 30:50

He benefited off of Stockton, but they had each other, so that should count for something. Melo's personnel that he's had on his team doesn't compare to any of the other guys. Man, no, I'm sorry, I think Barkley got the top of the list though.

Speaker 2: 31:02

John Stockton's chest pass, bounce pass and basketball IQ is a point guard. Derek Coleman would have got those buckets. Sean Kemp would have got those buckets. Barkley would have led the league. Malone had that working jumper that those other guys didn't have. If Barkley would have had Stockton, barkley would have led the league in scoring. Jordan wouldn't have all those scoring titles.

Speaker 3: 31:28

True, I think Melo's somewhere in the range of AI and Reggie Miller somewhere in that ballpark.

Speaker 1: 31:36

I'll put AI over him and Reggie Miller over him, though Me too AI didn't have anything.

Speaker 3: 31:42

AI had a higher ceiling.

Speaker 1: 31:48

He had a higher ceiling, but he wasn't as great for long as Melo was. Ai got more in the league at 6'1". Yeah, he did Hold on.

Speaker 2: 31:56

He's got more scoring titles, finals appearances and MVPs than Melo.

Speaker 1: 32:00

Yes, he's got all of them. The MVP does count for that.

Speaker 3: 32:04

Yeah, does count for that.

Speaker 1: 32:07

He's got to carry Snow to the championship.

Speaker 2: 32:10

Yeah, that team that's the biggest back pack ever. Eric Snow wasn't the issue, but I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 1: 32:17

Okay, we got any more super chats. One more CJ.

Speaker 2: 32:23

CJ the Kid. What up, I'm here, ogs. Bless you guys, as always, bless CJ. I'm excited for a possible moment of Truth Album Talk today with the primo subject. So are we? We got you, we're almost there, but right now, summer Jam lineup Fellas, go, don't do that.

Speaker 1: 32:42

A.

Speaker 2: 32:43

Boogie Gunna, glow Rilla. Know how I feel about glow my girl money long Cash Dog. Cash Cobain, jim Jones. Ja Rule and Friends with Ashanti. Did they really pitch it like Ja Rule and Friends? Ja Rule and Friends, it's an earth tribute. Ja Rule and Friends. Ja Rule and Friends, it's an Earth tribute. It's an Earth tribute though. Ja Rule and Friends though. Yeah, I mean Fuck. Is it Sesame Street Summer Jam?

Speaker 3: 33:14

Ja Rule and Friends Okay, all of them had a black child ever drop the album, so that's how they got to market it.

Speaker 2: 33:20

You know what? Every time, every time, I'm not even going to go there, I'm looking forward to the Irv. I'm looking forward to the Irv tribute. I hope Ashanti shows up. It's going to be hard to do a lot of those hits without Ashanti. Yes, what are your thoughts about the lineup though? Guys? All jokes aside, how the hell did Jim Jones get on this lineup? What is Jim? Jim Jones get on this lineup? Jim Jones be politicking boy. He be politicking, he be politicking.

Speaker 1: 33:52

This is crazy. This is. I have no true thoughts. I'm beyond. I have no true thoughts. I think Glorilla's going to do her thing, because I agree with you.

Speaker 2: 34:03

Thank you. Have you finally come over to my way of seeing things? Are you rocking with Glo? Finally?

Speaker 1: 34:07

Not yet, but I can acknowledge that she got some motion. I think she should be the headliner, to be quite honest.

Speaker 2: 34:20

To be honest with you, when I was looking at it I was like so who's headlining? Gunna or Glo? Are they giving it to A Boogie? Because A Boogie from Uptown and A Boogie from Uptown.

Speaker 3: 34:31

But if you headline like her set going to be mad short bro, let's call it what it is. Like, can you? Be, a headliner with a set that short.

Speaker 2: 34:39

I don't Hold on. How long were you expecting her set to be? And Hold on. How long were you expecting her set to be? And how long do you think the set would actually be? Because I think Glo can give you a 20-25 minute set at this point.

Speaker 3: 34:49

I think she can give you that. I would say a headliner need to do a minimum of 30.

Speaker 2: 34:55

I think she's there, fam. I think she's about there.

Speaker 1: 34:59

I think so. She got enough features out there right now that can get her through.

Speaker 2: 35:02

Yeah, I'm about to tell you the feature songs she done made about three or four big records. Now AG, that's about 12, 15 minutes plus the features and you know they're going to be doing some talking and crowd interaction and some dancing and some yeah.

Speaker 3: 35:14

Well, you got to take into consideration the feature verses. Ain't a whole record. You know what I'm saying. You go through a feature verse in 60 seconds.

Speaker 1: 35:21

You can stream them out.

Speaker 2: 35:23

I mean, like, think about it like this. Like think about it like this, oh no, when Jay did the takeover thing and he did the takeover, oh no, that took about 10 minutes. Like you can stretch it out.

Speaker 3: 35:36

Right, he's a showman. He's a showman, though I mean y'all gonna stop hating on Glo. No, no, she can perform, I don't know how.

Speaker 2: 35:46

I'll end up defending Glo on this show. I don't know.

Speaker 3: 35:48

I just don't know if she a headliner though, but what I'm? More interested in is the response to the older acts like Ja Rule and Jim Jones, because remember, it wasn't last year the debacle where Redman and Method man said he was never going to. Method man said he was never going to come back because of the reception they got.

Speaker 2: 36:08

Well, I think I mean AG to answer your question. I think Hot 9-7 took notice of it and that's why I'm asking how Jim Jones made the list, because I understand Hot 9-7 being smart enough and intelligent in New York City to want to pay homage to Irv, and so I know why Ja Rule is being invited. But based on what happened last year, based on all of the lineup outside of Ja Rule and friends, I don't see where Jim Jones fits into this algorithm. Am I wrong about that?

Speaker 3: 36:34

I think it's an ongoing relationship but the Dips, like, they performed at a lot of different summer jams, so they got that rapport, you know, and he has a new project out.

Speaker 2: 36:46

I was always one of those guys that's like it's not dipshit to me if Cam's not there.

Speaker 3: 36:50

That's fair enough. Yeah, fair enough.

Speaker 2: 36:54

Like Cam's, my buy-in.

Speaker 3: 36:56

If you let Jim tell it, he's the only one that's been keeping the flag waving all this time. You let him tell it.

Speaker 2: 37:02

Look here Even a country that has suffered, a country that has suffered a hostile takeover from a dictator, still waves his flag. What are we talking about? Yeah, jim Goonies, yeah okay he should also be the headliner too. That's another thing. He'll take goons.

Speaker 3: 37:25

Okay, he should also be the headliner too. That's another thing he'll take. He got more heads than anybody.

Speaker 2: 37:32

I've had enough summer jam talk. We might have to table this conversation.

Speaker 1: 37:35

Let's move on from that we might have to table this conversation next year.

Speaker 2: 37:38

So VOD Magazine actually did something productive for a change. They did the top 30 female guests versus yeah, ain't nobody safe this year, everybody getting aired out like. On something productive for a change, they did the top 30 female guests versus Ain't nobody safe this year, everybody getting aired out on site You're not about to do fuck shit. No, you're not about to keep on doing fuck shit.

Speaker 2: 37:55

I don't care if you're big, I don't care if you're small, I don't care if you buy a magazine, I don't care if you're an independent contributor, I don't care what space you operate on. They be doing sucka shit. But this list I actually thought was a pretty dope list. I thought some of the placements were misplaced, I thought they missed some things, but as a whole I found this list to be good. Do you mind if I highlight some moments for you and gather your thoughts on them?

Speaker 3: 38:20

Sure, I'm in agreement with you, coop. This is one of the better lists I've seen in a long time.

Speaker 2: 38:25

It's one of the best as far as lists go. Some of our bigger rep pundit commentators whatever the fuck they are need to take notice. This is what a real list looks like. This list is actually really good, really quality. What do you think about Lauryn Hill's verse on nobody cracking this list At 25. I actually think that you could argue that it could be a little bit higher, because it's actually, lyrically speaking, one of the better verses on here. Too recent Might be too recent. It is a classic record, though. So Da Brat on Socket to me. I like that. The Brat made this list a lot too, and she deserved to make this list. Yeah yeah, left Eye on you. Know what's Up.

Speaker 3: 39:16

Left Eye don't get enough credit as a rapper.

Speaker 2: 39:19

I thought maybe Left Eye might have made this for the Ladies Night remix was one of my thoughts left.

Speaker 3: 39:25

I might have made this for the uh, ladies night remix was one of my thoughts that that's a caveat because it's for features, and that was like um, I don't think that was one in one person's in particular record. I think that was a cumulative like effort thing, like it's not like missy's record or the brats record or whatever. So I, I don't think they, I think they didn't count that in general.

Speaker 2: 39:44

Yeah, what if I told you that Foxy Brown made this list more than any other artist, and I think they still might've missed the verse, and she should have. I thought Kim, I thought Kim was on here the most no Foxy's on here for bang bang, which I want to talk about at 22.

Speaker 2: 40:06

Yeah, foxy's back on here for the I Shot you remix at 16. And Foxy's on here at number eight for Affirmative Action. And Foxy's on here at number three for Ain't no Nigga. That's four. Yep, you're right, because Kim got three, but I thought she could have made Touch Me Tease Me. I thought Touch Me Tease Me could have been in here. Touch Me Tease Me should have been in here. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?

Speaker 2: 40:34

Touch Me, Tease Me, should have been on here, right? That's a big fact. So my hot take when I read this list Foxy is actually the best female guest appearance artist of all time.

Speaker 3: 40:44

Yeah, you could take off 30, 29, 28, or one of them joints and put Foxy in there.

Speaker 2: 40:49

Now here was my next thought. Foxy's the best, but Kim operates at the highest clip still, because when Kim hits the mark man, kim hits the mark, it's a show stealer. This is what I mean about Kim. First of all, I think having the Quiet Storm remix at nine might be too low. Guys, right, I think Bang Bang and Quiet Storm remix where they are obviously taking shots at each other I think both of those are too low. I think Quiet Storm remix might be top five too. Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2: 41:23

They put I Can Love you at number four. That's my personal favorite Kim feature verse. I was about to say that's my favorite Kim verse on the low. That's the one I mean. There's a Honda with Tanisha and Ron. She went off. She went off. She, more than at any other moment in her career, is the female version of Big on the I Can love you verse. Like that's a big level verse. It's big and so I love that. I think Nikki at monster at two is still. It's still a little bit high.

Speaker 2: 41:57

But when I looked at this wrist overall, I realized that the people that made this list are our age and younger. Nobody older than us made this list and they're probably and when I mean they're probably younger than us, I don't mean much younger, but probably like 35, 36, 37. Because most of the stuff on here, when you look at it, think about the stuff that they missed. Queen Latifah on the I Wanna Be Down remix. Mc Lyte on Self Destruction. Yo-yo on it's A Man's world. The brat on don't hate on me. Off Jermaine Dupri's 1472. That was a sleeper pick for me. Bahama D on push up your lighter off the roots.

Speaker 3: 42:37

So, yeah, I think they got it right for the most part, though I don't agree. I mean, I don't disagree with number one, kim on Benjamin's, because I because, if it wasn't for the beat switch on Big's verse, I might say Kim has the best verse of the whole song.

Speaker 1: 42:55

I can see that. I can see that I'm glad they're showing Foxy love. Though, to be quite honest, she's my favorite.

Speaker 3: 43:00

She's my favorite female emcee of all time.

Speaker 1: 43:03

As we get further away from, you know, the 90s era of hip hop, we forget how great Foxy was, man, her performance Foxy was blazing every track she was jumping on man. Foxy was dangerous as a feature emcee, you know. I mean, like I said, you think about you know the joint she had with Jay Ain't no nigga. I mean she stole the show regardless of who wrote it. She stole the show. She's like 16. I mean I shot your remix. She stole the show. You know affirmative action she stole the show. You got Nas and AZ on affirmative and she stole the show. When I look at it like that, like who was saying before, when you think about Kim and what she's been doing she stole the show in the time she hopped on it All about the Benjamins when that beat flipped and Kim is on that, steal the show. I'm not mad. They did. Even Mia X got to give love to Mia X. Got to give love to Mia X. Okay, so now I don't know.

Speaker 3: 44:09

He's had two placements as well. Man forget he.

Speaker 1: 44:14

Oh, whoa, oh my God, sean, I'm bad, I'm bad.

Speaker 3: 44:18

No, but this is what I will say I really had to think Of what went into play During the list, because the one thing that raised the eyebrow For me I was like Yo, where is Lean Back With Remy on here? But that's not a Fat Joe record, that's a Terror Squad record and she's part of Terror Squad, so it's not considered a feature. You gotta really you know what I'm, so it's not considered a feature. You got to really think about the technicalities when they make these lists.

Speaker 2: 44:42

I'll tell you this I do feel like a lot of this stuff should be on here. I do feel like Mia X at 7 on Bout it is appropriate. I do think Mia X at 14, I'll make them say might be a little bit too high. I think Queenpin on no Diggity at 27 should be higher. I think Foxy Brown on I Shot your Remix is top five for me.

Speaker 3: 45:09

guys, I don't care what they do that's their best verse, I think, the Queen Pan. I'm glad you brought that up, Coop, because I thought that was very, very low. It should have been a lot higher.

Speaker 2: 45:22

It should have been at least. How about this? I would be cool with swapping out Mia X and Queen pin on the Make them Say Un, putting Queen pin's no Diggity verse at 14 and Mia X's Make them Say Un verse at 27, because Mia X does have the Bow that Bow, that verse, and that is the verse that we remember her for Well.

Speaker 3: 45:39

I think to that point, though I think that out of all the names on here, like Queen Pin's name doesn't ring as many bells as a lot of these other female MCs, so she probably got pushed down to the bottom Before you went off screen Coop. I do think it needs to be something said about the impact of the monster verse, because I think the monster verse is why the impact of it is, why it's, uh, put so high at number two. So I wasn't mad at that. But another another thing on here that I loved about it and this um, you know, we can move on unless y'all have anything to add, not so much to feature artists, but it's a ton of missy records on here where she was the main artist and had somebody else feature. I love the flowers that Missy was getting on this list for her song.

Speaker 2: 46:28

First of all, I thought it was a nice call by them because my favorite Nicki burst might be Nicki on the Hello Good Morning remix. I'm happy that it might be her best verse to me. When I'm saying Monster is too high, I get the impact, the notoriety and the game-changing moment it is for her. But what I'm saying is it probably belongs objectively at five, not at two, because the I Shot you remix verse for Fox is better. It's better. I would tell you that Trina's NAMM performance is better and more Like. There are women out here who are doctors, who are partners in law firms and if you cut on NAMM, alright, you understand what I'm saying. You understand what I'm saying. You understand what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 47:17

I'm glad you put Lauryn Hill. Nobody verse on here as well.

Speaker 2: 47:22

First of all, she doesn't have that many guest appearances for her to make this list.

Speaker 1: 47:26

There's no reason she doesn't. The verse deserves to be on here. It's just a stellar verse. It's a stellar verse. I don't think Soleil should be on here. If I'm being honest, that record's too big.

Speaker 2: 47:38

That record's too big. That record's too big. But. Jt was big down here it was big. Yeah, do you?

Speaker 3: 47:43

want to kidnap her. We ain't hear from her for a while.

Speaker 2: 47:47

She should have blinked twice. She should have blinked twice Put her on mute.

Speaker 3: 47:51

But yo, the Lady of Rays joint on Stranded Death, death Row, aka Baby D Yo, that was a good pull to put that. That made the top 10, I think, no, it was 13. But yeah, I like that they put that on here. Stranded on Death Row is a posse cut. That I don't think gets enough love. It ranks up there pretty high for me.

Speaker 2: 48:11

They got a good one, I think. Remy on the Anteup remix I think that might be a little bit too high. That's at six. I think they feel bad. I think they feel bad about Remy not making it. I don't know if that's top ten action, I don't know. Coop, I think that's right.

Speaker 1: 48:25

That Anteop remix was going crazy and she was the reason for that. When she came on that changed the momentum of that song.

Speaker 2: 48:37

Rhapsody on Complexion Too Low?

Speaker 3: 48:42

I don't even know if that makes the list for me. I would replace that with the what did you say earlier? The Touch Me, Tease Me joint. I would replace that with the Rhapsody.

Speaker 2: 48:55

I feel like the guest appearance she did on the Busta Rhymes Best I Can is better than the Complexion one.

Speaker 3: 49:00

That might have been an inclusion vote. Like we gotta get her on here.

Speaker 1: 49:05

Yeah, I think they just put that one on her.

Speaker 2: 49:07

to be honest, I thought Vida's verse on Put it On Me was a nice pull because it's one of those verses that us, as fellas, don't realize how many women know that verse, until we hear it in the club again and every chick in the club sings the verse.

Speaker 3: 49:25

It resonates with them. I saw Drew's rapping that joy. Like yo. What are you doing First?

Speaker 2: 49:31

of all, you must have been in Midtown Atlanta, where I'm working, san Diego. You have been in Midtown Atlanta.

Speaker 1: 49:40

He has the same difference.

Speaker 3: 49:45

I hate to say this, because I love Rhapsody. I think it's an inclusion pick and it's on a Kendrick Lamar song, so that garners extra clicks. Just having Kendrick's name on the list, what's going on, they got to get the algorithms.

Speaker 1: 49:59

Man. What's going on.

Speaker 3: 50:03

They got to get the algorithms, man, they got to get yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:06

No, no, no, no, but overall they did a good job. Nice pull about the Missy thing. Eve did make it here twice. I'm not a big fan of the Hot Boys remix, like period, even though Eve does have the best Same here.

Speaker 3: 50:22

I love that record. I think even Q-Tip got off on that joint man.

Speaker 2: 50:25

You can keep that for me. Actually, I like the original better.

Speaker 3: 50:29

And Nas went crazy on there. Man, that's a staple at his shows. You go to the Nas show. He's performing that verse during his lady set.

Speaker 2: 50:37

And I understand it, but I think it might be his most overrated verse. The verse ain't that good. Sorry, it ain't that good, it's just okay. The Nas Hot Boys remix verse y'all think that's dope yeah.

Speaker 3: 50:52

I don't think it's overrated or underrated. I think it's properly. I don't think nobody raves about it, but it's a fire verse on a commercial record. That beat is crazy, the beat is crazy. Escobar. Cbr bikes, switching gears, headlights Shines so bright, it's a freeze like this. You know what?

Speaker 1: 51:11

I mean Freeze like this. It's not the freeze like this. That's what I mean.

Speaker 3: 51:17

Who don't like the verse birds? Because when we came back from Don't Call Out, he hit that deer.

Speaker 2: 51:22

First of all, the deer hit me Motherfucker, jumped over the median and kicked the car.

Speaker 3: 51:33

Sorry for bringing that up, Coop.

Speaker 1: 51:36

Still paying for the shit.

Speaker 2: 51:43

How the fuck fuck you get insurance on a car. It's just make you pay money. After you got insurance on the car, it was like, yeah, it was like, well, a deer hit your shit. The insurance really don't come with a deer hitting the car. It's like oh okay, I can have the insurance phone in overall dope list. Dope list shout out to Vop. We got our artists ready, our Rufus and Ill City. Are they in the backdrop in the background? Are they ready?

Speaker 2: 52:10

for us are they here because if they ready, we can go ahead. You know, get this party get this party started.

Speaker 1: 52:18

I'm about to bring them up. We got Ill City.

Speaker 2: 52:24

We got any super chats before we get this cracking off, are we good? Yeah, we do. We got a couple. Hold up, let's knock those out. Bring the homies in CJ the Kid first and foremost. Some rappers. We like fruit toast. When I look back on those lyrics, y'all punks beat the guts.

Speaker 1: 52:45

Just beat the guts. Cj is wild man.

Speaker 2: 52:50

We're seeing the maturation.

Speaker 1: 52:51

Look here, toastmasters has made CJ assertive he's an animal man. He's an animal Animal tough.

Speaker 2: 53:00

Animal CJ. Cj the Raisin Head Foxy should have had the top three guest verses. She's got a lot, she's got a lot. She's got a lot. You know what else I thought about. I thought she had the best verse on the no One Else remix too, with the Brat and Foxy and Kim. I thought she had the best verse on there when she said it off-brand Nigga, uh, chrome that whips and shit Bubbling laying up with them Colombians yeah, foxy crazy on the guest verse.

Speaker 3: 53:28

Foxy's the one for me, but I think real quick, I think she didn't over-sexualize herself like Kim and she wasn't as lyrically gifted as Lauren, so she got lost in the shuffle.

Speaker 1: 53:41

I don't think she got lost in the shuffle. Ag, I don't think she got lost in the shuffle. You know, fox was on way more. I think she got black. I think she got black ball. She got black ball. Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. I think China Dog messed her up, because when China Dog came out, china Dog was terrible. It was terrible. It was a big, big drop. The beats were bad.

Speaker 2: 54:04

It was bad. It was chasing the sound of 1999.

Speaker 1: 54:06

And it just didn't click. It didn't click at all, and Jay was heavily involved on that one. His pen was all through that album and it was just Jay's pen wasn't the best on that as well. We gotta keep that, that above too.

Speaker 3: 54:17

No, it wasn't. The album's not good.

Speaker 2: 54:20

She's not good, the beat's not good. No, sean's actually right, the beat's not good, she's not good. Broken Silence, broken Silence, was, was, was the one. That's the one. Broken Silence is the album. I tell people. Broken Silence, that first half of Broken Silence is as good of any project that I heard that year. That first half of that project, the second half it tapered off a little bit.

Speaker 3: 54:42

But there's stuff on there. But, her discography couldn't stack up to Kim's, that's just being real.

Speaker 1: 54:50

That's the J-Roll channel. All right, so we about to get our fellas up on here. L-city what?

Speaker 5: 54:58

up man. What's happening, what's happening.

Speaker 6: 55:04

That broken silence was crazy. Yeah, davin had something to do with that? Right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:16

That's her brother, isn't it? That's her brother. That's her blood, isn't it? That's?

Speaker 1: 55:21

her brother.

Speaker 2: 55:22

That's her blood brother.

Speaker 1: 55:24

The one who produced.

Speaker 3: 55:26

Hate Me Now for Nas.

Speaker 5: 55:28

Yep, okay.

Speaker 2: 55:32

Fellas, tell us what's good. We've been following I Am God for a couple of years now and you know, by process of, you know osmosis and assimilation, I've been getting familiar with what we have been getting familiar with you all and everything that's just going on in the Chi. So tell me how you all linked up, known each other, met each other, what the Chicago movement is like, before we get into the project. I want to talk about the city because, like when I hear y'all shit and that's like I said it on the last episode I question it's like is this kind of like how Griselda kind of like got started, where it's like well, everybody's kind of doing their thing but everybody kind of is together for like a common cause and a common good? Ill City. Are you the in-house producer? Are you the new Derringer? You know what I'm saying. Tell us how the dichotomy of the team is put together and broken up and all that.

Speaker 5: 56:30

Go ahead, bro. Well, you know, I'll put it to you like this, though, they did kind of like their presence as they became what they are. When they started, when grizzled started, they did a lot of fire under us, you know, being as though that they was coming to the city and really, when nobody really hit to them, like that shit. So, you know, we was going to the shows when it was only like 15 20 but, like you know, we know Vic Spencer and Vic Spencer is real connected with like Westside, so, just being in cahoots with him and knowing that he is one of the guys that they, you know, rock with, we had to really step our thing up. But yeah, they lit a fire under us and we just started doing our thing, but it's our own sound. So but go ahead bro.

Speaker 6: 57:21

Yeah, I first heard of Brazil through Vic and Chris Crack. They was doing songs with them, like back in. Crack had a song with Conway, like in 2016, and then that's how I got on their wave. But I think, as far as me, me and Eel, like real brothers man, We've been locked in for a minute. Me and Eel, like real brothers man, we've been locked in for a minute and at one point he was just helping me and my brother Jay Hayes, out just whether it be with studio time or you know what I'm saying making merch, selling merch. Then, maybe in I don't know 2020, maybe I think Bro started DJing and he became our DJ and not too long after that he got him an MPC and then it was like he started making the beats and they was cool at first, and then bro just started going crazy but by him being my brother, I'm rapping off the beats right off the bat and then he getting all the weak ones, all the weak beats.

Speaker 5: 58:20

He trying to make it make sense, you know.

Speaker 6: 58:23

And then, as far as the movement in Chicago, we all have been aware of each other. I had came home from jail right, this is why I say it started. I had came home from jail like the end of 21. And I had texted Nick Spencer for his birthday. I got out on his birthday and he like check your messages. I started a group, and he started. He had like this little group it was like me, him, feel More Green and I Am God, and then he was like you know what I'm saying? This is, we're going to do a project, and we actually started working on a project, but we never finished it, though.

Speaker 6: 58:57

But then, at the same time, I was doing music with, like to me, me, jujilla and Panamera P are more like the street hip-hop cats in Chicago, so I was doing, as well as doing music with God and Fillmore. I was doing a lot of music with Jujilla and Panamera P, and then I kind of think I was the bridge Jujela and Panamera Pete, and then I kind of think I was the bridge, and then now, at this point, we're like we don't have a name or anything, but it's definitely a strong circle of like seven or eight of us that always appear on each other's albums, support each other at each other's shows, and I guess it would be because they're the Esk. But we're technically not a label, not a group. We just understand that we need each other to really push through and establish what's going on in Chicago.

Speaker 3: 59:53

As far as the album Ill Dirty Rufusus, can you guys walk me through? How did that concept come about to adopt some of the themes from the classic album Return to the 36 Chambers and the inspiration of Old Dirty, like you know, whose idea was it and who helped craft and curate? Or was it a team effort to craft and curate the album to what it ended up becoming? It was more of a team effort to craft and curate the album to what it ended up becoming it was more of a team effort, I think.

Speaker 5: 1:00:22

Uh, around around the time, the uh the woo docu, the rule, uh docu-series that they had on hulu came out, me and bro was just always on the phone watching it.

Speaker 5: 1:00:33

And then, um, old dirty's character started to come into fruition for Bro, and I always saw Bro like that too. You know what I mean. Like you know, the ace in the hole, the one, you know, the one-hand army, a son, you know what I mean. And so, like you know, he was just like man. It'd be a cold thing. If you know, we do a project together. But we called it like Eel, like ill dirty rufus, you on the beach, you know, and I'm on the rams and, and you know, because his rams game is so different and so unorthodox, which is why we use the title uh uh, uh, use the uh, old dirty, um uh character, because it's like there's no father to a staff. So that was the whole reason. So I just really wanted that way to shine light on his lyrical ability. You know what I mean.

Speaker 5: 1:01:27

We didn't really want to make a Wu-Tang S album, because it's still my sound and, like I've been saying through all the other interviews too, when people ask, rza can only do RZA. You know what I mean. I didn't want to cop a sound like the RZA. I think there's a point in the album where we did go there. You know what I mean. But we didn't start that. We knew we wanted something like that in the album, but we didn't want the album to be just totally Wu-Tang, you know type.

Speaker 6: 1:02:06

You know we wanted to shine on our sound, but still pay homage to the art that we was using too.

Speaker 2: 1:02:09

And I want to no go ahead, rufus, no, no, no go ahead.

Speaker 6: 1:02:12

I want to pay homage to just the originality of ODB, because I was on house arrest for two years and you know I ain't a spring chicken so I was almost like, alright, this case gonna take me under, my rap career is over with. But then I end up having fun again with rap, just experimenting with certain things. And then I came to the conclusion, like man, I want to start making music that, like, it's hard to copy. You know, I said, or have a, a style that's hard to copy. So I just I don't know. It's like, even if you, if you hit some of the stuff I was doing like three or four years ago, it wasn't as polished as like the way I do it now. So I jump in and out pockets. I got an end goal where it's always the land in the pocket. But I just kind of do this thing and to me it was kind of reminiscent of just how ODB just kind of did what he wanted to do, but it made so much sense, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:03:10

That's dope.

Speaker 2: 1:03:14

So, rufus, I would equate your style in boxing terms to having to fight a Southpaw. And so, yeah, if you've ever boxed before, like fighting somebody who's lefty, who know how to punch, is like the worst thing in the world for you, because they can beat you with their style, even if you're stronger or faster. And so the first time that I heard you on another project produced by L-City City of Gods, I said to myself it's like of schoolboy q and of two chains where you're having fun when you rap, but it is unorthodox, but it's actually like low-key gangster, like you're having, like you're having so much fun on this project.

Speaker 2: 1:04:09

People are missing a lot of the shit that you're saying, because it's like it took me two or three times to catch it and I'm like oh yeah, I'm like he having too much fun because he's making me have so much fun that I didn't start catching some of the stuff that you were saying until the third time around, because I was enjoying the style and the cadence and the flow and the put together so much.

Speaker 6: 1:04:28

I used to think I was the next like at one point in time in my career I thought I was the next Meek Mill. So I was doing like I was always doing hip hop, but I was doing like I was trying to catch what the streets wanted. I was around so many street cats, so I'm trying to make these street anthems and bangers. And then I finally got to a space where I was like man, fuck them, man, I'm going to do what feels good to me and I'm having so much more fun. Now. My content is still very street. It's a reflection of a lot of things that I've been through, but you know I come from. You know jumping in certain pockets already, so I'm like all right, how can I take this to another level and just make it super creative? Not too far where I'm running somebody off, but still enough where it sounds fresh. Though you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 1:05:21

No doubt. But that's hip-hop. Hip-hop is pushing the boundaries, it's being authentic and being, you know, genuine to yourself. And we hear that a lot in this album. I listen to Cap Crazy a lot. I love Cap Crazy. I even love Cap City. For you to even that production on Cap Crazy, just to have that hint in the backdrop of Dirty, you know that shit is genius. And the fact that, like you said, rupert, your style is so unorthodox, it's not about writing a beat, it's really just getting crazy on it. You know what I mean Just really just blowing on it and doing what you want to do. There's no boundaries to it, there's no rules to it.

Speaker 6: 1:06:01

And you can feel that in the freedom of actually what you're rapping on on that joint as well. Man just rapping regular got born to me Like it's like and it's so easy to copy. And then I had all these people like man, I mean you still going crazy, but that new stuff you're doing a little bit I'm like man, that's what I'm at with it, man.

Speaker 5: 1:06:18

So take it or yeah, and I think for like cap crazy. We just wanted to like have fun. You know what I mean. Like bro, bro got so many. You know, if you go back to um, you know, dig into his. Uh, you know, slow down, go to his yeah, go to his discography um, and really just follow up all the way.

Speaker 5: 1:06:39

Up until now Well, listen, up until now, all those projects before I came in and did my thing, those projects were like serious projects. So in the midst of everybody you know, winning the Boy Scout Logic, giving him all this production and him putting his thing together, it allowed me to just say you know what? They're giving him real serious beats. I'm going to give him like the best production, the fun entertainment production and we just going to go crazy with it. The number one thing for me about us with this project and me and bro we talk like every day. So it was like the rollouts. I just wanted the rollouts, the anticipation, and then once the project hit, boom, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5: 1:07:25

And to ag's point on the uh last show, you know I know like a lot of people were saying we had a lot of features and that was. It was a reason for us having all the features on this one because, like I say, his previous albums he really only had like probably like two or three features and the rest was just him. So this was like an opportunity to because we already widened the wave in the city. So this was like a perfect opportunity to not only show you know, uh, our ability to have fun in hip-hop. It also showed you, showed his camaraderie amongst the guys and who he hanged with you know what I mean and basically go throughout the city and get different artists, you know, like we had Bizarre, we had Sapphire, you know just a lot of guys that he's connected with just to make a great album. You know what I mean. But yeah, that was the whole goal for this whole album, not just Cap Crazy is just to have fun, give them a fun product.

Speaker 3: 1:08:22

Right, that was an honest critique. But you know, once I think about it, it kind of fits the theme of the album because if you're making an O'Day to like, you know a Wu-Tang solo album, most of the Wu solo albums have a lot of features, you know, featuring the rest of the crew. So it makes sense when you think about it. And cat crazy just so happens to be, um, my favorite joint on the album. That gives you that old, dirty, uh bastard vibe to it. Um, but rufus, you spoke to earlier about how your old stuff from a few years ago doesn't sound like you know the stuff you're doing now. You wanted to do something where nobody could bite or copy your style and have more fun with the records. So in that, did your writing process change any, like when you go in the booth? Or you know your whole process leading to record the album? Did you have to switch that up?

Speaker 6: 1:09:11

In the process I start writing at the mic. At the mic and it kind of it's like I still write some songs, but to me it's almost like a pump faking a free throw when you're writing sometimes, because it's like when I scratch it I can say this better, I can say that better, and sometimes it's like living in the moment kind of, and I kept getting better and better at it. So it's like I so it's like I record off energy drinks and my mind gets moving real fast and I just, you know, I got to remember what the thought, that I just thought and then still had a conviction, but yeah, I make most of it right at the mic.

Speaker 2: 1:09:51

So hold on, hold on. So let me hold on. Ag, are you finished? You mind if I piggyback off that? So I'm fascinated by that because I used to be an artist and so some of the last things that I was doing is I was teaching myself to have four to eight bars ready before I would go to the mic. So when you're saying that you have, are you? Are you like? Are you in your mind, like, is the beat playing? And you're writing the bars in your mind and then you're stepping to the mic, are?

Speaker 6: 1:10:20

you talking about you really just going to the mic on some uncut, like in riffing. Sometimes I might have a four bars, I might have a hook, right, right. But I record so much music though now you don't have time to write, yeah, and I just get into a zone, almost like a basketball game. I get in the zone, I know my mind already knows what it's time to do, and once I get to the mic, like my mind, I think, goes to a different place. So I make them right at the mic, most of them, and all I need is like one good line and then I'm gone. I can just keep building off that. So I've been just punching. I'll stop, give me back, come on, give me back, give me back, give me back. And then, yeah, kind of got real good at just doing it like that. I still write and I do what you said too.

Speaker 6: 1:11:06

I might come in. If I come in with eight bars, it's over with. I'm finna, smoke, right, I'll be nervous. It's like a fun thing, because I'd be nervous sometimes I don't have the a-bomb and I'm like ah, yeah, I tell people, I tell people all the time, yeah, I got the verse ready, and then I get in there and I'll be like, all right, what are we gonna do? But then I make some of my. I start with I start realizing like damn, I make some of my best music like this. So I kind of just thought, um, um, just catering to the process and making the process better. And then I do it in front of everybody and it's like some of the best lyricists in the city. They be like oh you crazy bro.

Speaker 2: 1:11:47

You mind if I ask just one more question, right quick, before you jump back in. Sean, yeah, so I've listened to Panamera, peas and Jujilla's project as well and of course you know we've been down with I am god for a minute. You do come off like the odb of the crew with the unorthodox style and voice. So how do you feel when you're in the studio with these quote-unquote uh, traditional lyricists? Because they're great at what they do, like jujujilla's verse on I Am God's Morse Wade was probably my favorite guest verse on there and it made me go check for him and Panamera. So I have their projects too, and all of those guys. I would consider those three guys to be your more traditional, fundamental emcees. Does working with guys like that make you go further outside of the box? Does it push you to be like when you're walking in? Does that nervousness is that higher when you and I Am God are sitting there in the yo with you?

Speaker 6: 1:12:50

It's this song that me. I remember this one session I had for the loyalty project and I had a song, one song I Am God, then one song with you and they going project. And I had a song, one song with I Am God, then one song with Jew and they going crazy. And I'm just like I got nothing ready, which I never do, but I was just like they definitely pushed me lyrically. You know what I'm saying. And it's like the people that I rap with they push me in different ways, almost so I would say Jew and I Am God push me more lyrically. Somebody like Vic Spessa, he's like he's a lot of fun. He's like the funny, he's like a funny guy. Then Pano we call Pano Tim Duncan it's just like big fundamental, don't miss he just. You know what I'm saying, he just. But I don't know. Yeah, they all push me, not enough to change up my process, but maybe just to be aware, like, all right, you with the killers today, you know what I'm saying Right, so, fellas, we got a super chat.

Speaker 1: 1:13:57

From my Mere Thoughts Does this quote look familiar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the record that's my shit.

Speaker 6: 1:14:08

I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:14:10

That's my favorite song.

Speaker 1: 1:14:11

Favorite song yeah, that's my Mere Thoughts.

Speaker 5: 1:14:15

That was like the second and third record that we actually had finished for the album. But the first track that we had that I built off of was Grits and Eggs. Once I, you know, had this ability and I'm like man, you know we're not there yet, but once I got Grits and Eggs broke one in one day, did it. The next day, I think, richie West came by his crib, laid down his verse and it was done, and I'm like all my beats need to have that type of vibe, and then so on. Then we came up with this concept called Rucka. Actually, rucka is actually a concept from a joint he had on there called Jim Carrey, on Aim Hot, which he dropped in 2021. And I was like man, it'd be cold if you take this one line and just make it a hook and Bro just, you know, did his master thing with it, you know.

Speaker 6: 1:15:15

I wrote I actually I wrote Rucker, I wrote that one.

Speaker 1: 1:15:17

Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's dope, that's dope. So, siddy question for you, man, you got different ends of the spectrum. You got Rufus on one end, you got IM on the other. As a producer, as a curator, and you're putting together the sounds, the soundscape for all of the artists on the crew, the soundscape for all of the artists on the crew. Do you see yourself gravitating more to one style based on how it makes you feel as a curator, as someone who's producing a record? Because, going back to what Rufus said earlier, having fun, getting to have fun on a record, having fun on the album itself, as a producer, do you feel that same way? Are you having fun on the album as you're producing for a specific person? Or do you feel like I have to lock in a certain way because I have? I am who's going to bring a different flavor, different energy on this record? Are you changing your vibes and you coming up with the actual beat itself?

Speaker 5: 1:16:11

you know, when I do come up with like certain beats, bro is out, they first. Ruth is always here. Everything I do first before anybody even hears.

Speaker 6: 1:16:22

So the cat is me and Jay.

Speaker 5: 1:16:27

Hey, they hear the beats first before anybody, and the beauty about that is is that they'll tell me who to kind of like to let to go to and be like hey, you might want to take that to. I Am God you know what I mean, and so like.

Speaker 5: 1:16:43

I'll take that to I Am God and he'll probably like it. Like Stephens is like the intro track. You know Hayes had that first, but Hayes was like you know what, get that to I Am God. I think he'll sound real cold on that. And so I was like man, you know he'll take that joint and he did what he did with it. But, like I said, yeah, in my process you know the bros, they always around, so they they hit a lot of stuff before anybody else do, and so we just like make certain plays. You know, man, you might want to hook up with this artist or you might want to hook up with that artist, and actually that makes it fun for me because it shows my versatility to be to able to give people tailor-made production is what I call it, you know, I mean that's what I want, that's that's my goal.

Speaker 5: 1:17:30

to work with anybody is to make the production tailor-made to fit them, so, like with the last two projects that I did, and that's what happened. You know, I just made the teller made two different sounds, but the same approach, if that makes sense, absolutely.

Speaker 6: 1:17:48

Me and Jay Hayes, our group. We like a duo. We are both solo artists, but we do a lot of music together, and he's one of the main guys in the city too.

Speaker 4: 1:17:57

So me and Jay Hayes, we even before this whole thing, the little people, the little people, yep, yep.

Speaker 6: 1:18:07

So yeah, we've been rocking out for a long time, but I think Chicago just really starting to realize, man, it's much easier together than apart, you know what I'm saying. And then a lot of people low-key, like Chicago is a hating-ass city, so it's like there's a lot of guys that can spit, but we formed this little circle and then everybody be like oh man, y'all won't let me in, or you know, we can't be down with the cool kids and be like man, this is a real organic thing. Y'all hands, y'all the rules. You know what I'm saying? Keep down with this.

Speaker 5: 1:18:38

The bar is set really high in our camp, like it's a way you got to really you know rhyme. It's a way you got to present yourself. You know what I mean. You know, because a lot of the guys that's in our circle man have great accomplishments. We got a couple guys that did European tours in Fillmore Green and big Spencer. You know what I'm saying. You know they did European tours. You know uh uh, you know you know they work. Speak for itself. You know Rufus. You know his years of work in it. So it's like the bar is really really set. You know what I mean. And we we done been around a lot of guys that you know, kind of like they just go to the gym and just taking shots. You know that ain't what we do.

Speaker 6: 1:19:23

Yeah, they export hoopers yeah, they export hoopers.

Speaker 5: 1:19:27

We really that's why the music sound the way that it is. It's because we really really trying to, you know, set the bar at a high level. A lot of people would think like we just doing too much. It's like nah, bro, we gotta be authentic and like so go ahead, go ahead cool no, you go ahead no, you go ahead I want to hear you talk so, nah so.

Speaker 5: 1:19:51

But, like I said, the bar is set pretty high and so, like you know, the music has to match. And so for us, you know, we just we just want to put our best foot forward. You know the music has to match. And so for us, you know, we just, we just want to put our best foot forward. You know what I mean. And then we older too. So, like the music, for us at our age, it has to make a lot of sense. You know, we ain't in the clubs, we ain't, you know, popping bottles. You know we, we real men, live a real life. So, like the music has to reflect that. You know what I mean. And you know it's nice. You know, like we say, we clean up, nice too, while we doing it.

Speaker 6: 1:20:26

I think a lot of people in our city right, they could spit. But it's like I'm not a fan of everything. I ain't a fan of stuff. That's just about anything. It's like what are you talking about? You know what I'm saying it's like and how does it relate to you for real, as a man, as a person? You know what I'm saying. So I want to hear about you, I want to see your growth as a man, and that's what I want to hear. And I think a lot of people get lost in what everybody else want or what will or what won't work. But the guys I'm around, those are my favorite artists.

Speaker 2: 1:21:00

Dope. Dope.

Speaker 3: 1:21:06

AG. Oh no, you was going to say something.

Speaker 2: 1:21:09

I just want to know Ill City. So what is it like with you? I know for me your producer in the studio is kind of like your tour guide, so it appears that you are organized and have objectives when you all are recording. Is that accurate? Because, based on what you all are telling me and from the conversation that I've had with I Am God, it's like y'all are synchronizing what y'all are doing, so y'all are coming to the yo with objectives in mind about knocking shit out, getting shit in. Yeah, yeah, to the yo like what's objectives in mind about knocking shit out, getting shit? Yeah, yeah, uh, working most into the movement. Do you ever have to get on any of the artists about, kind of like, staying on task, getting shit done?

Speaker 5: 1:21:49

um, not not all the time, not all the time. Um, it's like you know, these guys are so focused and then they make me so focused. So, it's like you know, since we probably like hooked up and did this thing in 2020 and started, just you know, cooking up and being on the rise of where we are right now, it just was a nonstop thing. You know, we just always, you know, sharing ideas. You know on how each one of us could be effective. You know sharing ideas. You know on how each one of us could be effective. You know, you know, and all these guys got a vision of their own. You know, it's just for me, I just, like Alchemist said, provide the big point. You know what I mean. So I just provide something for them that they could just really, really be dope on. You know what I mean.

Speaker 5: 1:22:39

But like, yeah, we definitely have that camaraderie where, as though it's that I am like all hands-on very hands-on If I can't be hands-on as a producer, be able to curate, be able to say something, be able to have any type of input. That's how I intend. I want to work with you because I just don't want no trash on my street. You know what I'm saying. So for them guys, I don't have to really do that because they already, like you know, polished in the way you know what I mean they already set. It's just, you know. I just expand what I do and make it, you know, make it really better for them. You know what I mean Because I am God. A guy like I am God man. That's like a cheat code for me. You know what I mean. The beat could be trash, but we're going to put the dopest concept together. He's going to put the dopest lyrics on there and it's going to take off. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 1:23:37

Dope Only got one more question. So you all speak about your crew is kind of like a collective, nothing official like as a group or not signed to the same label. But is it any chance that we can get something like a compilation album from you all, with you at the helm of the production Ill City? Is that something that could come down later on?

Speaker 5: 1:24:04

It's actually kind of in the works, but we don't discredit a lot of other producers too, because it's like I'm just really not taking off. There were guys that it's like a whole group of us it's me, it's Billionaire Boy Scout, it's Logic, it's Scripps, it's Mike Jacks, it's Kid Breeze, it's just a whole crew of us that actually collectively put this whole sound together. And it could be just I could have the momentum, but everybody else, all the other producers, may have their input or something. You know what I mean. Like the compilation that we put together. I may have three, four beats, billionaire may have three, four beats on there, but it all syncs in the same together. You know what?

Speaker 3: 1:24:53

I mean, and y'all are in the studio with each other while you record Gotcha.

Speaker 5: 1:24:57

In the studio on the phone, facetime, whatever it's really that's major. That's major Everything.

Speaker 3: 1:25:03

Yeah, you know what I mean. As it should be. That's how classics are created, like that.

Speaker 5: 1:25:08

Yeah, yeah, and we get on each other's nerves too. Like man, I gotta do this again. Man, I don't wanna do this verse again, and I don't feel like putting this bass up in here. Man, now they want this louder. But it's all good, though, because it's like we all strive for perfection, so there's no hard feelings in that, or nothing.

Speaker 6: 1:25:29

It was like, quote unquote more established producers in the city. Ill kind of just jumped the line Hard, like hard 2025. Slow down, but Ill like the way Ill come. Everybody see it and they're respecting it and I'm just so happy for my brother you know what I'm saying that he getting recognition for what he doing. Ill been making beats for what? Five years now.

Speaker 5: 1:25:53

Yeah, about five years.

Speaker 6: 1:25:55

So, naturally.

Speaker 2: 1:25:56

I am a drummer.

Speaker 5: 1:25:57

You know, I used to play drums for churches, so that's where like technically like the musical groove.

Speaker 5: 1:26:04

You know the musical background really come from. So, like I just had to make the step to just buy the equipment I always wanted to produce. I always wanted to buy MPC but I just never acted on it. You know what I mean. It was one of those things where, yeah, money don't make no money type of situations. You know what I mean. So it was just like man, you know I'm sitting at the crib, I might as well, just. You know, at first I was looking at it as a hobby, but I didn't take it serious until Bro technically made the transition and was like this is the route we're going to go, this is the type of music we're going to make.

Speaker 5: 1:26:39

And it was like man, I've been wanting to just lock in and make some dope hip-hop anyway, so it was like perfect timing. So all that 2020, during the pandemic, I'm working like tip agency jobs and the majority of the time I'm really at home.

Speaker 5: 1:26:55

You know what I'm saying. So I'm like, man, I got to do something with my time. I just can't sit here. So I just went on the head, bought the npc one and, you know, sat down, watch a few videos, shout out to scripts. He came through, showed me how to chop up samples and everything. You know what I mean. And from there it just. You know. It was just history.

Speaker 3: 1:27:15

You know what I mean for the record. It sounds like you've been at it longer than five years.

Speaker 5: 1:27:20

Man, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Like I say, that just comes from the ability of being around music. I was thinking about that. You know what I mean Knowing music, having an earful. I was about to.

Speaker 2: 1:27:32

Go ahead, go ahead I was thinking, this is how your beats. I was about to say it's like you must be classically trained, because ain't no way. You've just been making beats for five years and you about to say you had to have been musically inclined prior to it. Because ain't no way. Because I mean, I want to say this is that well, two of our best five projects that we've heard this year you've handled the production for and we don't consider that a small feat and you've made me question production wise, like what the difference between an independent and a major is at this stage in the game.

Speaker 2: 1:28:08

Because the soundscape that you're giving these artists for me I know because I've been around and I've been an independent artist oh, every major city got a bunch of independent artists with a bunch of talent. So for me the producer is kind of the tipping point, and so the stuff that you put together for these gentlemen is the tipping point, in my opinion. You know what I mean. So like, shout out to you, shout out to your team. Now my last question is is it, are you guys doing shows in the city with some sort of frequency? Doing shows in the city with some sort of frequency? Is there a plan to kind of like, get out regionally in your area and do something with you all, having such a strong core of mcs and producers in chicago, becoming such a hub and will be in such a hub for a long time yeah, we was doing a lot last year.

Speaker 6: 1:28:55

Like last year was kind of like, um, the city, kind of a reintroduction of the city, like, oh, this is all here and I think a lot of the city was like you know probably listen to graville, especially a lot of the artists. And then we had a certain show that, uh, me and water put together called renaissance of the culture, and it was sold out, packed and then all of the hip-hop artists was there and I could just see the look on their face, the people in front of like man, I a lot of people didn't even know what was really going on in the city and then whatever. Then from there we did another show, um, called purple box. I got this, um, I'm like co-owner of this purple box um company called purple box. It does like interactive videos and and it kind of just went through the city and we. That was another sellout show and I think that kind of set the stage.

Speaker 6: 1:29:48

We ain't been doing as many shows this year because I think everybody kind of looking at it like they want to do the right shows and then I'm kind of one of the people that throw some of the shows here. As far as in hip-hop, we got some coming up, but you know there's been a lot of people trying to jump on the wave and they want us to just come pull up and they want to get the whole crew there, but then they don't want to break bread, so I'll be like man, y'all trying to jump on the wave. Nah we cool.

Speaker 2: 1:30:20

We might as well do our own show Plus like too. You know, we'll do it. Wherever we can to help y'all throw it, we'll pull up and help y'all throw it yeah.

Speaker 6: 1:30:25

Man, we need to do that For real. That would be great. I'm serious. I mean it's too bad.

Speaker 4: 1:30:35

I mean. So I tell y'all, like no no, no, we can tell.

Speaker 5: 1:30:37

Even with us going back and forth to Detroit too. You know what I mean. We went to Detroit, did a couple shows with Bazaar too, you know what I mean, and that kind of helped us outside of the city to throw some of these shows. They came to us, we came to them and we look at it as a nice market. Detroit is actually a beautiful city to actually do hip-hop in. They actually got a beautiful hip-hop scene. That kind of like took, took me away. You know what I mean. I was like damn, I ain't know, it was like this, but they so locked in with us. You know what I mean. That it's just man, it's just crazy, but yeah.

Speaker 6: 1:31:18

Detroit got a lot of hitters too yeah they got some hitters, bro. Yeah, detroit got some hitters yeah, they got some hitters.

Speaker 2: 1:31:25

I be peeping. They music scene too. They got some guys out there, yeah we did a Chicago to Detroit thing.

Speaker 6: 1:31:30

I went out there. I had Link with Bazaar. Bazaar's name is Rufus, so it was only right I had him on the project and he kind of he reached out to me. I went and did, performed at his birthday party show, and I locked in with him and Taff Ferris and Guilty Simpson and just a lot of other cats out there, and they showed a lot of love. Then Bazaar pointed to the satellite bro y'all. The bigger market though, and so then we went back out there and we did like the Chicago to Detroit thing, where we all went out there me, guy, jujela, panamera P. Then they came back up here. It's dope yeah.

Speaker 5: 1:32:12

Yeah.

Speaker 6: 1:32:17

I'm in classic studios, guys All right fellas we're about to let y'all go For sure.

Speaker 5: 1:32:24

I just want to say no, no, no, you're good.

Speaker 2: 1:32:25

We're about to let y'all go. Ill Dirty. Rufus is out on every major streaming platform, correct? Yes, sir, yes sir.

Speaker 3: 1:32:35

Ill City was saying something real quick.

Speaker 5: 1:32:38

I was saying I love the show watching. Ever since I learned about it, I've been watching it like every Thursday you know so dope concept, love the fact that y'all show love to underground artists such as Rufus.

Speaker 5: 1:32:55

I Am God, man, the topics be on point. You know the album reviews and everything. Y'all put a lot of people on newer hip-hop because a lot of people don't know that they can actually go out and find a nice. You know the underground actually is really bringing a better sound than the mainstream. They just got to go look for it. You know what I mean. It's pure. Yeah, it's pure, but it's platforms like y'all, man, it's platforms like y'all that actually keep us going, man, and y'all give people the information and people receive that, man, and we've received a lot of love since y'all guys did the review on the album. Man, it's been crazy. So I love, love that for y'all. Thank y'all for both reviews actually for me, man appreciate it hey I appreciate

Speaker 2: 1:33:44

y'all hey, ill, I'll share something with you and rufus before I get out of here, and this is conversations that I've had when I am god behind the scenes, when I was an artist and this is down here in atlanta I mean, I had people that knew me and that I was connected to, like djs that I helped promote the major radio.

Speaker 2: 1:34:01

Like they used to ask me for money, like to play my shit, and I'm like I'm like you know me, it's like nigga, help spark your shit. And so for me, me being in it on this side was always about the artist who I thought may have next. You know what I'm saying. Like whoever it is, it's I don't care who it is, it's like I just want them to get their fair due and their fair shake, because that's how the game used to work. Is that like the media outlets used to put you on to the motherfucker that was next, and it's like it became a money thing and it's like, no, I'm a hustler myself, I like my paper too, but like not at the expense of the game. You know what I'm saying and so anytime we can run across the camp like y'all.

Speaker 2: 1:34:42

it's like and I've been telling Sean and AG this since me and Sean and AG actually met up for the first time it's like, oh no, we got to go to Chicago and go see these guys. We got to be at a show live.

Speaker 6: 1:34:55

So you know other with y'all. That would be amazing, bro. We got to do that for real we do yeah, we down for that.

Speaker 5: 1:35:06

Get the security right. When y'all get the chance, man, go back and listen to some of Rufus' other work. Man, I think you guys have really enjoyed the work that Rufus has presented before the Ill Dirty Rufus. I'll never take nothing away from those projects, because that's how I actually got to Ill Dirty Rufus is the guys making the projects.

Speaker 5: 1:35:25

You know what I mean. You know he's one of the most. You know this is my brother. I've been knowing him for like 15 years plus. You know what I mean. So like this, you know it was just easy doing a project like this. You know what I mean, especially like me and him know each other, come from the same hood, grew up you know. But yeah, this brother is actually history. You know he had a lot of family history out here too. You know you can learn about it. But yeah, definitely, rufus Sims is one of the ones man. Go back and listen to his whole discography man, you won't be disappointed.

Speaker 6: 1:36:04

I appreciate y'all and I love y'all opinion on hip-hop and y'all very versed on sports too, I see. You know, what. I'm saying that's my life, that's my life sports and hip-hop man.

Speaker 2: 1:36:16

Yeah, appreciate it guys, rufus, you're, that's my life sports and hip-hop man. Yeah, appreciate it, guys. What's up, rufus, you're going to like my new show coming soon. I'm going to be getting into some more sports stuff too. Me and Sean have been talking about doing some more sports-related stuff.

Speaker 5: 1:36:30

Yeah, All three of you, y'all nice.

Speaker 6: 1:36:34

Y'all nice with it. A lot of people don't even know what they be talking about.

Speaker 1: 1:36:40

Appreciate you, fellas. Peace. Peace, peace, that was dope, that was dope.

Speaker 3: 1:36:56

Y'all haven't heard the project yet, go check it out.

Speaker 2: 1:36:58

Rufus Sims, ill Dirty Rufus on all streaming platforms produced by Ill City we need to go in the summertime because I'm not going to Chicago in late November, absolutely not not at all, absolutely not crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:37:20

We skipped over the inspiration for the time and we didn't talk about the Dirty Joint, the return to 36 on the anniversaries. Y'all want to get that real quick.

Speaker 2: 1:37:31

Well, actually that's what I was actually about to kind of get to. Oh, okay, time-wise, I knew they were already ready. That's why I was like, well, well, let's go ahead and jump to them. Go ahead and get to this on. Where do you rank this album in the Wu-Tang solo catalog? Would be my question for today. Where does this album rank in the Wu-Tang solo catalog? Would be my question for today. Where does this album rank in the Wu-Tang solo catalog?

Speaker 1: 1:38:07

Right, this is tough, it's tough, yeah, it's tough.

Speaker 2: 1:38:16

Because I think placing the album in the Wu solo catalog will be able to provide appropriate context from there.

Speaker 3: 1:38:26

I'm going to say six or seven Because this is early. This is only the second solo project.

Speaker 2: 1:38:30

This is early. There's still, I'm going to say six or seven for me. Sean, what say you?

Speaker 1: 1:38:40

Cuba Link Jezza Liquid Swords.

Speaker 2: 1:38:45

Man, you got Supreme. Iron. Man Cuban Link Liquid Swords right.

Speaker 1: 1:38:52

About five or six. I have it over to Cal.

Speaker 3: 1:38:56

I got Cuban Links too over this. That's a push, that's a push. Yeah, that's a conversation, and I think Pillage is a conversation for me, because I hold Pillage high. Coop knows this.

Speaker 1: 1:39:15

Look, man, you know how I feel about the Pillage. I won't put Pillage over this. We can't be having a feel about the pillage. I won't put pillage over this.

Speaker 2: 1:39:20

We can't be having a conversation about the pillage in conversation oh my god, okay, look here. I had to clip Coop's reaction.

Speaker 3: 1:39:28

But I love the pillage man, I really do. But, um, this was a nice change of pace, like Sean always talks about when he waxes poetic about this album and I think about the entertainment factor. It's one of the most entertainment, entertaining albums ever made and coming off of to cal being the second solo I mean the first solo album in to cal, 36 chamber was gritty and grungy. To cal took it to an even more dark and damp place. You know what I'm saying Than even 36 Chambers was. And then, coming off of Takao, you got.

Speaker 3: 1:40:04

This album, like Sean said so many times, is real bright and entertaining, good change of pace and I think that we're talking about where it ranks among the solo catalogs. Just the entertainment factor and Dirty's style, what he brings to the table will help it leapfrog some of those other albums. That's a close conversation. You have to give Dirty's album the edge. If I'm being objective, so it probably falls in about five and before you know, one of you take the mic. I just want to point this out because I was talking to Sean about it and I had a thought Dirty's position with the Woo. We actually spoke about it on the last show, on the latter albums where he was, you know, god Bless the Dead when he had transitioned. That's the one element, that ingredient that was missing, you know, from their albums. You know what he brought to the table and it got me to thinking Dirty.

Speaker 3: 1:41:06

His contributions to hip hop was just so major but it was in a limited, you know, concentration, if that makes sense, because if you think about all those other solo albums from the woo it's not a lot of dirty features out out there. You talk about dual of the iron mic. That's one of the only few features on the solo albums. But he just adds that ingredient, like he does the hook and takes the track to a whole another level. Then you got joints. That's scattered on soundtracks like diesel from the soul in the Hole soundtrack, windpipe from Belly he's like it's just joints here and there.

Speaker 3: 1:41:44

But Dirty wasn't really popping up all over the place on these Wu projects. So his presence when he did, you know, get on a song, it was really felt. I mean, of course he had the big hits outside of the Wu camp the mariah fantasy remix and then the um ghetto superstar and stuff like that. But I'm just talking about woo joints. It's not a whole lot of material out there featuring dirty and that made me a little sad when I thought about it, because he is the brightest spot of the group, if that makes sense. You know what I'm saying. And it's not a whole lot of material out there outside of 36 Chambers and his contributions to Forever, where he's really with the Klan, a whole lot.

Speaker 1: 1:42:29

Let me ask you this though, both of you guys when does he fit on the Cuban link? Honestly, where does he fit?

Speaker 3: 1:42:37

He doesn't belong in that chamber because that's a different chamber.

Speaker 1: 1:42:41

And I'm okay with that. I give what you're saying, the sample size is not as much as you probably want.

Speaker 2: 1:42:50

I've often thought to myself that he should have you guys verse on knuckleheads.

Speaker 1: 1:42:56

I love that verse, though I think you kind of need you.

Speaker 2: 1:43:00

I love that verse. I love that verse. But when I listen to the beat and when I listen to like the story being told by Ray and Ghost, I'm like no, that would be actually a great place to insert Dirty. So if you're asking me where that would be, where, I think you got what's needed for that reason alone.

Speaker 1: 1:43:18

Just for that, because if you think about the aesthetic of Cuban Link, that was orchestrated very well and executed even better.

Speaker 3: 1:43:26

I got it. I got it, though I'm sorry my bad Sean.

Speaker 1: 1:43:29

He just didn't fit. If anything, I would have wanted to see him more on Liquid Swords, just because the connective tissue between him and GZA, because GZA brought a lot.

Speaker 3: 1:43:38

He's on Duel of the Iron Mike.

Speaker 1: 1:43:42

I'm talking about more because the connective tissue between him and GZA. Gza wrote the majority of Return to the 36th, so it should be some carryover into that in some capacity. But it's very tough to say where you can put him in the play sales.

Speaker 3: 1:43:58

I got it. I got it and it would make sense when you hear it Wildflower.

Speaker 2: 1:44:04

That's Iron man. Yeah, that's some old shit, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:44:10

Yeah, it is Iron man.

Speaker 2: 1:44:11

But yeah, I can see that. No, he fits on Wildflower, though you are right about the fit. Yeah, okay so here's the thing.

Speaker 2: 1:44:24

You said Cuban, are you are right about the fit? Yeah, okay, so so here's the thing. You said cuban links, did you sean? Yeah, yeah, so here. So here's what. So here's what I would say. I would tell you that this album should be fifth in the solo catalog, and it would be slightly over the purple tape too, and here's why the purple tape, too, is better, from beginning to end. There is no brooklyn zoo no, there's the shimmy shimmy. No, there's baby, come on. There's no hippa to the hopper, no raw hide, no different from the purple tape too. Like those, four, five, six records are all classic, classic, classic hip hop songs.

Speaker 3: 1:44:51

Right, that's a good point.

Speaker 2: 1:44:53

And so what I'll tell you is that the only actual solo rap projects out of the Wu-Tang Clan that are definitively better are the original Purple Tape, liquid Swords, iron man and Supreme Keyword. Definitively, definitively. Because here's the thing, and I don't think people really realize this, and this includes Method man in this this crew has never been a bright and happy crew. No, this has always been a very dense, intense, dark, street-oriented crew. Think about this they rose to notoriety on a song that literally talks about the struggles of inner-city life in Cream and the need for money. They didn't Dirty was the fun. This is the fun project. This is the fun album.

Speaker 2: 1:45:46

This is the fun artist, and hip-hop needs fun. That's why I like Rufus so much, because when you have one fun artist, oh it changes the dynamics of the entirety of the group. It does, and it's why Dirty was never the entirety of the group. It does, and it's why their shit was never the same he was the heart of the group man.

Speaker 2: 1:46:06

He didn't take it so serious but much like I just said Rufus, he's the southpaw of the group. It's like, oh, that style just comes and hits you and it's infectious and there's nothing that you can do about it. Think about how legendary he is. Aj, you spoke to this. He barely made any material, guys, but the stuff that he made is so impactful, like the quality of it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:46:31

Yeah it's there.

Speaker 1: 1:46:34

You only get one return to the 36th chance. That's the thing, that's the unique part about it. You can only do that once. You cannot do that again, and, again and again. You can only do that one time he.

Speaker 2: 1:46:48

I hear what you're saying. He can't do Brooklyn Zoo again. But Niggaplease is essentially Shimmy, Shimmy Yari done a variety of ways.

Speaker 3: 1:46:57

It's entertaining. It's just as entertaining. It's entertaining, yes.

Speaker 2: 1:47:02

That's what I'm saying in terms of that entertaining factor of like oh, this is old, dirty bastard the entertainer, not the rapper.

Speaker 3: 1:47:09

It's the same chamber, but it's a different part of the chamber.

Speaker 1: 1:47:14

It doesn't give you that same feel. Think about his brain.

Speaker 2: 1:47:21

No, it doesn't, but that's what I mean about it not being as hip-hop oriented. It's the entertainer Think about this Name a rapper that could actually remake Billie Holiday's Good Morning Heartache and Rick James' Cold Blooded on the same album.

Speaker 3: 1:47:36

Nobody would attempt it, nobody would attempt it. Think about that.

Speaker 1: 1:47:39

I didn't like it in the very beginning was crazy. Nobody would attempt it. Think about that. I didn't like it in the very beginning, fellas. I'm being honest, nobody would do that.

Speaker 2: 1:47:44

I didn't like it in the very beginning, but think about it. If you actually follow the artist, it's like no that actually makes perfect sense that he did it. I mean it's like not on some rap shit, but he did artistically maintain that entertainment, that fun and the high-quality song-making. So you're not going to get a Brooklyn Zoo or a Raw Hide, but it's like, oh no, you're going to get cold-blooded Redone. You are going to get the actual record, nigga, please, with the RZA in the back screaming you can never fuck with the dog.

Speaker 3: 1:48:21

That's why I said a couple shows ago on Conditioner on the W. As much as I like that song, it kind of makes me sad when I hear it because you can hear the pain in his voice. It's not the fun dirty that we know Granted, it's recorded from jail but you can hear the pain in his voice with that.

Speaker 2: 1:48:39

So this is what I mean. There's a fine line between the pain and this is what I mean about Good Morning Heartache making sense on Nigga, please. Oh no, he's saying shit on that album. I get the cocaine. It cleans up my sinuses. Oh, he's still going. I was still going then. Right, he's a wild boy. He's still a wild boy on there, so shout out to Dirty. Return to the 36 Chambers Classic Top five songs. An album that is not top five Wu-Tang album on any level is celebrating the music anniversary as well. Meth Ray and Ghost released Wu Massacre on 3.30.10. Okay, the only thing that's a massacre is what this album's sounding like. This is an atrocity. All three of them should be ashamed of themselves. There's three good records, one for each great rapper on here. That is nasty. I thought the album was alright. It's three records.

Speaker 1: 1:49:33

It wasn't great. I think it was kind of leaving you wanting more. I think of leaving you wanting more. I think it leave you wanting more because a lot of these, all the tracks on this album it actually leaked way before the album came out. There were Lucy's all over the place when this album came out and I don't even think it was. It should have been an official album. It could have been a mixtape. To be quite honest, I agree it could have been a mixtape, but they released it as a full-length album and you got three of the most potent MCs, or three of the most potent MCs in Vogue. I don't think they pulled it off.

Speaker 3: 1:50:08

My only complaint is I love Mef, but I think the third person should have been Capadonna, because those three got the chemistry.

Speaker 1: 1:50:15

That's a good quote, man, or Dex, dex wasx. Originally it was going to be, I think Dex got his czar face thing.

Speaker 2: 1:50:24

Dex got his czar face thing he's like. I got some top. I got some top billing over here.

Speaker 3: 1:50:29

I'm not doing that you rolling your eyes, coop, but name a track with all three Kappa Ray and Ghost on it. That's not classic. Name one humor me, coop.

Speaker 2: 1:50:38

No, a Ray and Ghost on it. That's not classic Name one. Humor me, humor me, coop. No, okay, first of all, I like Capadonna. I like the Pillage. I just don't like Capadonna and the Pillage as much as you all. Ray, ghost and Capa are epic together. The level that we've had to talk about Capadonna and the Pillage in the year that we've been doing this podcast is fucking ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 1:51:01

The poor rhythm on Soul. Paul, it is fucking ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 1:51:06

We have talked about the pillage. I want to count on how many times we have talked about the pillage. We have talked about the pillage like 92 times in a calendar year. It is ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 1:51:15

It is ridiculous, cooper, it's the right thing to do. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 1:51:21

I'm going to go listen to Super Ninjas when we get done.

Speaker 1: 1:51:25

Is that going to make you feel?

Speaker 2: 1:51:26

better yeah, milk this cow Milk this cow is my joint though Milk. This cow is my joint. That is my favorite joint. That's the cow's fire. Feels like a fish knockoff from Iron man, but whatever.

Speaker 3: 1:51:40

Nah, it ain't competing with fish at all. That's one of the true. It feels like a fish knockoff from Iron man, but whatever, yeah, yeah, nah, it ain't competing with fish at all. That's one of the true master.

Speaker 1: 1:51:47

That's one of the best movies ever. We eat fish. Fish is epic Rap ballads, crazy, crazy record.

Speaker 2: 1:51:51

It is crazy. Okay, Speaking of more Wu-Tang, it's a Wu-Tang Forever type of show. Method man and Red man have some new music out. It's a Red man song, La La La off his Muddy Waters 2 album, but the remix has been done by none other than DJ Premier. Guys, what do we think about this DJ Premier remix with Red man and Method man? La La.

Speaker 3: 1:52:17

La. I feel like Premier is ramping up a little bit. I feel like Premier's ramping up a little bit. Like you know, after the Marcy joint, I think this is another hot joint that he put out there. So if he keeps on, you know what I mean. Seems like he's getting more active, putting out more joints and then leading us to this Nas album. I get a little bit more confident with every little loose to your single that he's putting out since the rock Marcy joint. Yeah, I can dig it.

Speaker 1: 1:52:40

I think it's just a wrap up every little loosey or single that he's putting out, since the Rock Marcy joint. Yeah, I can dig it. I think it's just a wrap up. I don't think it's something that was supposed to do anything more than that. I just think it's a wrap up. I really do Nothing to go crazy over, respectfully, but both of them sound good on Premiere Production. By the way, Method may still sound good man, which the way Red Method Method may still sound good man. It's crazy. It still sounds crisp man.

Speaker 2: 1:53:07

I liked it. I felt like it was a step up. Yeah. It's a step up. I don't have too much more to say than that it's a remix record. Yeah, it's a remix record. I mean, Redman and Method man are consistently great when they're together. They're not doing anything mind-boggling. The beat is pretty dope. I think the drums and the snares and the kicks are nice. It's a good beat.

Speaker 1: 1:53:34

Yeah, this is a little loosey Something to get us ready.

Speaker 2: 1:53:39

Yeah, something a little in and out. You know, not good, not bad. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, a little 3.5. Yeah, yeah, light that up, smoke it. You know it's all good. Method man and Red man La La La Remix that's it now you about to wax poetic though.

Speaker 2: 1:53:59

I was about to say. But now to the moment. We've all been waiting for, the moment of truth. On March 31st in 1998, one of the truly great rap albums of all time got created. I feel like that. The moment of truth, quite frankly, is a top 20 rap album all time. When I talk about all time great rap albums, very few of those rap albums have more than 15 songs on them. This is one of the five albums that does, and so not only is it great, it's great on every level, by every measure, including, like you know, as far as extended length player. You could argue that there aren't five rap albums with a better collection of songs, because this one actually has a collection of 19 songs, and the majority of those songs are actually stellar. They're 20. Well, I don't count. There's one in the middle where the chick's just talking.

Speaker 3: 1:54:52

Oh no, that goes into the. You know what I'm saying? That's blended with another track. That's a two-part track. That's the oh shit, what is that?

Speaker 2: 1:55:03

that's uh I got them all written down. That's the um. I think that's uh, my advice to you. My advice to you new york, straight talk uh-uh it's um, it'll come to me.

Speaker 3: 1:55:16

Um, your rep grows big. The rep grows bigger, I think. I think it's the rap grows bigger when she's doing the shout outs Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:55:26

It's like two minutes worth of shout outs and it's the same thing in memory of. So it's like I kind of count it as 19, because both of those songs aren't really complete. Complete songs, but thoughts on Moment of Truth. Guys, ag, you want to kick us off?

Speaker 3: 1:55:42

yeah, I think this is their magnum opus. Man, I think um, premiere is at an all-time high. I think guru, as an mc, is at an all-time high on this. Um, dope concept, dope rhymes. Um, as far as like front to back, you know um, from track one to the end of the album, this is their best album. Some people may say hard to earn, but I disagree. I think this is D1. You know this is by far the one and it's a really great album. I think it's a Bob Mike album.

Speaker 1: 1:56:16

It's up there. I don't know if I'd give it a Bob Mike, I'd definitely give it a 4.5, but I really feel like I give it a 4.5 respectfully. I think from front to back, paws is the best. It's their best album to me. It's their best album production wise. The completion of the production to me is the best that we've seen in one setting. Guru did his thing on it. Really. He wrote an entire album. The only thing I dock it for. If I had to dock it for anything and this is just really, really, really, really pulling hairs, if you will, or just being anal about it for us it's just more so just I wonder if we would have condensed it. Take my two or three songs off and make it a little bit more condensed. Then I would have given more of a classic, but I wouldn't argue with nobody who feels this is a classic.

Speaker 1: 1:57:09

I wouldn't say you think it's a classic. I just give it a four and a half. I think that it's a great completion of an album, a full body album, but I wouldn't give it a full classic.

Speaker 2: 1:57:20

But I love this album. But again I won't argue.

Speaker 1: 1:57:23

If you got a classic, you got a five mic. You got a five mic. I just wish it was a little bit shorter, that's all.

Speaker 2: 1:57:30

This is one of the few easy fives I've ever actually listened to in my life. In my opinion, where I don't argue about the five of it I hear what you're saying Like, for me, some albums are just five. The Infamous is a five, this is a five, the Low End Theory is a five. It's like that for me when it comes to this album. And you're right, ag, you're right, guru never sounded better on here. But production-wise, when we're're talking about actual beat side of it and the actual executive production side of it, it's arguably the best executive production and production of beats that the east coast ever presented from one producer outside of a rizzo project. And so that's what I mean is like, oh no, it's special. It's like there's Q-tip on the low end theory, there's RZA on liquid swords in the purple tape and then there's primo, moment of truth as far as East coast producers like, as far as like, manifesto jobs. And so this is this is a manifesto job in my opinion, so just the production alone makes it a five. I did is a manifesto job in my opinion, so just the production alone makes it a five.

Speaker 2: 1:58:43

Um, I did a little thing today and I was just having some fun and I'm gonna post it when we're done where I was realizing, if you go through all the stuff that preem was doing, you know, before um, before moment of truth came out, he really held all his best beats for guru. Like it's remarkable when you look at the stuff that he did because I went back and listened to some of the. Like it's remarkable when you look at the stuff that he did because I went back and listened to some of the other stuff, it's like, oh no, he kept the best beats, like with the best drums. Like the best drums that he did are all on here. Like he didn't give none of that shit away. He didn't give it to Rakim, he didn't give it to Nas, he didn't give it to Jay, he didn't give it to Jay, he didn't give it to Big. Big got the best of it because Big got 10 Crack Commandments.

Speaker 2: 1:59:21

That was the accident. That wasn't for Big, that was some old shit. Prima done. Big just had him go back and cook that back up. So, outside of kicking the door, I can't think of in a million and one questions. I was going through the stuff and I'm like, no, he gave all of the best beats to Guru. But I thought to myself what would it look like had he actually given these beats away to someone else? So I did a top three list of all the beats that I thought the emcees would have rhymed over best over the beat. So do you mind if I run it down right quick.

Speaker 2: 1:59:52

It looks like you wanted to jump in and say no, no, go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 1:59:58

So for you Know my Steez, I think big would have sounded epic on you know my C's, and so I actually got big at number one on you know my C's. I got KRS-One at number two. I got Rock Him at number three. Oh, quick caveat you had to have been on a beat by DJ Premier before Moment of Truth for me to include you in this list of people. So these are all the people that had already rhymed on Premier's beats, so could probably get a Premier beat because they had already had one For Robin Hood Theory. I thought this beat would be for J Rue Damage, J Rue, the damage of the best. I have Bahamadi at second. A lot of people forget that he worked on Bahamadi's collage album. So I have Bahamadiya at second. A lot of people forget that he worked on Bahamadiya's collage album, so I have Bahamadiya. And then I have Prodigy at third. A lot of people forget that he produced a record off Juvenile Hell on Mobb Deep's first album. So Prodigy, I'm going to make this list. Hit it from the back. Yep, For work. I got Jay. When I listen to this beat, I think Jay would go crazy on work. I love to beat the work. I got KRS-One at two. I got Nas at three. For work For royalty. I got Nas at one. I got Rock M at two. I got OC at three.

Speaker 2: 2:01:14

Oc For above the clouds listen to this. I got Big because I think Big would sound great on above the clouds. Listen to this. I got big because I think big would sound great on above the clouds too. It would Well, big would sound great on everything.

Speaker 2: 2:01:26

I got J. My third choice ODB. Interesting ODB the Big Daddy Kane joint that Preem did. Odb is on that joint. Yes, A lot of people forget about that. I thought ODB yeah, yeah, A lot of people forget about that. I thought ODB, yeah, yeah, A lot of people forget that. So I think ODB would sound pretty great over above the clouds too, Like something a little bit outside of the box for that. Jfk to LAX. I got J. I think that would be the beat for J that J would take. Of all the stuff that I heard on here, I think that that beat fix J-Style the best. The next two options are going to kind of throw you off a little bit. Chub Rock and the Lady of Rage are my two and three for that. He did some stuff for Lady of Rage and he's been doing stuff for Chub Rock. Chub Rock is nice. People forget Chub Rock is nice. He only made one album, but that album was nice. Chub Rock can spit.

Speaker 3: 2:02:20

I used nice chub rock can spit out of cousin that used to play the album all the time man like

Speaker 2: 2:02:23

it's a great album. Chub rock was nice. He's nice, was nice. It's a setup. I thought this beat was perfect for rock him. I actually think he probably should have taken this beat instead of a couple of other beats he actually ended up taking from preen. But that's a whole nother story. Actually it's a setup beat. I was was like this is the OG beat because I got Rakim Kane and KRS-One as the people that should take this beat. The actual Moment of Truth record. I have Nas at one. I think that would be the record he should rhyme over. I got Heavy D at two. I got Kane at three On BI vs Friendship. I got Kane at three On BI vs Friendship. I got Fat Joe at one. I got DOS Effects at two. Wild Card. I got Shaheen at three.

Speaker 3: 2:03:12

That is Wild Card I like it.

Speaker 2: 2:03:13

I like it 98, Shaheen. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, Shaheen on BI vs Friendship yeah, good look the Militia.

Speaker 2: 2:03:22

I got KRS-One. The Militia got KRS-One all over it to me. I got OC after that and then I got J at third. The rep grows bigger. I got JRu and then I got Big and then I got Prodigy. What I'm here for, what I'm here for, is Kane. I love that record. I think Kane would float here for Me too. I got Nas at two and then I got Jay at three on there Four. She Knows what she Wants. I got Bahamadia Another sleeper pick. I got AG at number two from Showbiz and AG.

Speaker 3: 2:03:59

I'm the original AG, though I'm not joking. Okay, that's actually my heavy D at number three. My fault, I was just going to say this is my least favorite record on the album.

Speaker 2: 2:04:16

It probably is mine too, ag. It's on the bottom half. How about this? This album's a five to me because if you're telling me that this is like the week record five, right, new York, straight Talk. Right, new York, straight Talk. I picked Rakim again for that. I got Prodigy at number two. Got Chubb Rock at number three. My advice to you. I got Prodigy at this one. I would love to hear prodigy over my advice to you. That would be fire. I like that. I got yeah. I got yeah, 98 prodigy over my advice to you. I think the title would fit too. Yeah, that sounds like a prodigy record opening bar would be crazy yeah yeah, the opening bar would be crazy.

Speaker 2: 2:04:58

I hit you with a brick and then leave your moms out the building. And I got Nas at 3 for Make Em Pay. I actually think Make Em Pay would be a great J record. I got J Rue at 2. I got KRS at 3. The Mall is my least favorite record, ag. I think I got J Rue at two. I got KRS at three. The Mall is my least favorite record AG. I think I got DOS FX at number one for this one, yeah, because it kind of has that rowdy kind of like up-tempo thing that they were known for in the early 90s, you know. And it's got the kind of like old school.

Speaker 2: 2:05:36

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:05:40

No, no, no, I like, like it, I mean this in a good way. These, I mean I'm a flying, you know, I'm saying I used to kill them all, so right.

Speaker 2: 2:05:46

Okay, we're just gonna go to the next one. I got prodigy one more time at number one for betrayal. I think prodigy would sound great over betrayal. And then I got naz and Madea. Right after that On Next Time I got Rock, MJ and OC and on In Memory Of I got Big Nas and Kane. So that was just a little fun I was having. I'm going to post the list afterwards. I think it's a top 20 rap album of all time.

Speaker 3: 2:06:13

A couple quick thoughts. That was a fire concept that's going to come into play later.

Speaker 1: 2:06:18

It's crazy how we all on the same wavelength that is a very creative thought, but it also gives credence to me feeling like it's not a classic because we just took Guru off of every song and replaced his voice. Don't do that.

Speaker 3: 2:06:32

Sean, that was an exercise. Did Coop freeze? There you go. A lot of Bahamadi love on your list, coop. If I heard right, it wasn't any AZ or Big L on here. I'm here.

Speaker 4: 2:06:50

It wasn't an AZ. No, not AZ or Big L yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:06:52

Yeah. We got some super chats as well. Fellas Coop, you there.

Speaker 2: 2:07:02

There you go, all right.

Speaker 3: 2:07:08

I think he froze again, Froze again. Coop Might have to hop out and hop back in.

Speaker 1: 2:07:14

Let's get a super chat real quick.

Speaker 3: 2:07:17

Double barrier. It's a classic that does seem a bit long. Their best, I mean to hold up that level of consistency through 20 tracks is difficult.

Speaker 1: 2:07:27

Yes, I would not argue with anyone saying it's a classic. I would not Straight up and down.

Speaker 3: 2:07:34

You're raising your head with the $5 Super Chat. We appreciate you, man. If Moment of Truth was a Mobb Deep album, where would it rank in their catalog? I ask the same question for Tribe, called Quest, as well.

Speaker 1: 2:07:46

Again, that's another good question, because you're taking Guru out the frame. You're taking Guru away from it and you're replacing Guru with other MCs. Yeah, that's another question. Would you want to hear Mobb Deep on every track, though, of this album?

Speaker 3: 2:08:07

The production. You don't get to say Mobb Deep over Primo production as you do over Havoc production. Exactly.

Speaker 1: 2:08:16

Square point, though we got Raisin Head sean is guru the reason?

Speaker 3: 2:08:23

uh, you don't think it's a classic?

Speaker 1: 2:08:26

I think that's the reason ag and coop just shared as well. I mean, they just replaced guru almost every track.

Speaker 3: 2:08:33

Rest in peace, guru coop did a dope little concept exercise.

Speaker 2: 2:08:38

Man Sean tried to turn this into something else all I'm saying is is that if Primo doesn't work on this album, where do these beats go? Because there's obviously guys that are going to take them that's a perfect transition.

Speaker 3: 2:08:55

Is that all the super chat, so we can slide to the next main event? Okay, fun fact freddie fox was supposed to be in gangstar and not guru. I, I did know that, but thanks for the super chat. That's dope. Um, yeah, it's crazy how he's on the same wavelength coop because, for you know, saying our main event today, we had another little fun exercise.

Speaker 3: 2:09:17

Um, me and sean was having a conversation and he was bringing up the big j and nas records that primo gave to them and how impactful those records was to their careers. And then I started talking about how the narrative was a lot during that time that primo gave his best beats outside of the camp, a gang star, and your point was that he kept the best beats for guru. So in me and sean's conversation I thought you know what would be dope between jay naz and big primo did 20 tracks. It's 20 tracks on moment of truth. So I said let's put moment of truth through the gauntlet and match it up versus style and don't think about the MCs, because a lot of times who's on a track can elevate it.

Speaker 3: 2:10:07

But if we take, say, take Nas out of the equation, take Guru out of the equation here, on that side of things, which one is the better produced track? So I don't have any vote in this. I don't have any dog in the fight, because I curated the matchups. You know what I'm saying. I tried to match them up as best as possible with the. You know vibes and energy and you know the sound and stuff and the quality of the track. So, coop, when you did your exercise and you was putting certain MCs on certain tracks and you was putting certain MCs on certain tracks, some of the matchups is going to, like you know, spark to your brain. We was thinking on the same wavelength or whatever.

Speaker 2: 2:10:45

Okay, Okay, I see Okay.

Speaker 3: 2:10:48

So, chad, we're going to need your help because I don't get to be the third vote because, like I said, I came up with the matchups, these first couple of matchups, or whatever, but you know, I tried to make it progressively more difficult to choose as we go along through the battle.

Speaker 1: 2:11:03

So, Chad, we'll need your input. It's like Cooper, not meth for a shelf, like there's no right or wrong answer, just more so, right.

Speaker 3: 2:11:11

Because I don't even know what the matchup looked like.

Speaker 3: 2:11:13

Right, yeah, so they don't have no clue. This is blind. I'm the only person who you know what I'm saying. I clue this is blind. I'm the only person who you know I'm saying I curated the matchups. We don't know. This information has been hidden from us, right? So we'll see what my person, uh, my personal thought is that sean will lean into the jay-z, nas and big tracks coop will lean to the you know moment of truth tracks because you hold it as a top 20 album. But these matchups get tougher as they go along, so let's get it kicked off. If you're all ready, let's go ahead. First couple rounds, or whatever Round one. We got Beat Breaks by Nas versus she Knows what she Wants off the Moment of Truth album.

Speaker 2: 2:11:50

She knows what she wants.

Speaker 1: 2:11:52

Yeah, she knows what she wants, okay yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:11:56

So that was an easy one. Like I said, these first couple rounds is fairly easy.

Speaker 1: 2:12:01

You want me to poll them as well you can okay, I'll get the second one up, okay, alright, let's go next round.

Speaker 3: 2:12:11

Define my name by Nas versus my advice to you off the moment of truth out my advice to you off the moment of truth, out my advice to you who. That's what he has, what you got, sean. My advice to you, yeah, Okay, so we'll count that you don't even have to poll that one, right?

Speaker 1: 2:12:34

Yeah, let's just poll the ones.

Speaker 3: 2:12:35

That's a discussion. Let's just poll the ones that y'all you know are in disagreement on. Let me split them, okay? All right, that'll be the third vote. All right, now we're starting to get to business a little bit. Friend of foe 98, specifically 98 by jay-z off volume one versus new york straight talk on moment of truth friend of foe, Picking the beat right Only the beat.

Speaker 2: 2:13:03

I'll give Friend of Four 98 that one.

Speaker 1: 2:13:09

Okay yeah, not by a lot, not by a lot, but it's there.

Speaker 3: 2:13:12

This is easy. Like I said, it's going to get progressively more difficult as we go along.

Speaker 1: 2:13:16

Friend of Four is crazy. Listen to it, that's crazy. Yeah, friend of Four.

Speaker 3: 2:13:20

The original Friend of Four is crazy. Listen to it, that's crazy. Yeah, friend of Four, round four the original Friend of Four. Off Reasonable Doubt by Jay versus the Rep Grows Bigger off. Moment of Truth.

Speaker 2: 2:13:32

Rep Grows Bigger.

Speaker 3: 2:13:37

I ain't mad at it. Sean's more than a friend.

Speaker 2: 2:13:41

I went to hear the beat again.

Speaker 1: 2:13:44

The original friend of foe beat is not like that it's a little lower grade and again, I'm trying to separate as much as I can the MC from the beat. It's tough to do. So what's your pick, sean? The beat it's tough to do. It is what's your pick, sean? I can't go. Friend of Fall. Rep grows bigger. I agree with Kool. Friend of Fall, the first one is not the best.

Speaker 3: 2:14:14

This is going to show how the moment of truth stacks up. Production Roz because we're putting it through the gauntlet this will be able to tell, is the difference maker, guru, and who rhymes on the other track. So that's why we're doing this round number five yeah, round number five. Come get me by Nas off Nostradamus versus the mall from moment of truth.

Speaker 1: 2:14:36

I gotta go, come, get me go in the mall.

Speaker 3: 2:14:39

I hate that, beat we have me go in the mall. I hate that beat. We have to poll it. The mall, the mall. Shout out to Jack. Jack should love this segment let me see the mall. Come get me what we doing first. One to 20 20 votes, 20 pieces, fine.

Speaker 2: 2:15:01

What are we doing First? One to 20 votes 20 pieces, fine. The 14% of you that said Moment of Truth is not a classic. I want you stricken from the trap for life. Find you niggas out in the street, open hand slapping.

Speaker 1: 2:15:16

Let's see, let's post it in there.

Speaker 2: 2:15:18

We can all keep going.

Speaker 1: 2:15:20

AJ and just come back to it, Okay.

Speaker 3: 2:15:25

You want to get that for a week, Cause in case we got a poll the next one, can't you run?

Speaker 1: 2:15:30

multiple polls, Only one at a time. Yo, it's happening. Yo can y'all see it?

Speaker 3: 2:15:38

It's the first one to 20 y'all see it, it's true, our first one to 20 didn't call it.

Speaker 2: 2:15:43

No, I mean we can go to the next one and we'll just pull it up. Okay, all right, bet.

Speaker 3: 2:15:49

Round number six rap phenomenon that's Biggie off the posthumous Born Again album featuring Method man and Red man.

Speaker 1: 2:15:58

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:15:59

Versus BI, versus Friendship, featuring MOP on Moment of Truth.

Speaker 2: 2:16:14

Taking BI versus Friendship.

Speaker 1: 2:16:25

Yeah, I agree with.

Speaker 2: 2:16:28

Cole, okay, the mall beat. Come and get me. By the way, did it? Okay? 55 to 45.

Speaker 1: 2:16:37

All right, close. I think that's Nas fans keeping it close, though, all right.

Speaker 3: 2:16:40

Speaking of Nas, round number seven, new York State of Mind. Part 2 from I Am versus what I'm here For, off the moment of truth.

Speaker 1: 2:16:51

State of Mind Part 2. State of Mind Part 2, baby Come on.

Speaker 2: 2:16:58

Yeah, barely, but.

Speaker 3: 2:17:00

I love.

Speaker 2: 2:17:00

what I'm here for Don't get it twisted, I love it.

Speaker 3: 2:17:03

That's a hard record right there it is.

Speaker 1: 2:17:05

That's a tough one. That's a tough one.

Speaker 3: 2:17:09

Alright, moving on Round number eight. Ten Crack Commandments by Big versus Next Time off the Moment of Truth. Ten Crack Commandments.

Speaker 1: 2:17:19

Ten Crack Commandments. Ten Crack Commandments, that's high level right there, that's up there.

Speaker 2: 2:17:27

That's one of his five best beats.

Speaker 1: 2:17:29

It could very well be that beat is tough.

Speaker 3: 2:17:36

Round number nine Bring it On by Jay off reasonable doubt versus make them pay off the moment of truth.

Speaker 1: 2:17:45

make them pay is tough. Man make them pay is pretty tough. Make them pay is tough.

Speaker 2: 2:17:52

I'm going make them pay, yeah make them pay make them pay is tough alright so that's okay. Round number 10 let's slow it down a little bit you can poll that one if you want to, because a lot of people in the chat.

Speaker 1: 2:18:11

Bring it on versus make them pay you want to go ahead and put that one up?

Speaker 2: 2:18:17

yeah, let the people decide, because a lot of people are saying, bring it on. Okay, you want to go ahead and put that one up? Yeah, let the people decide, because a lot of people are saying, bring it on.

Speaker 3: 2:18:25

Okay, so while they're doing that, all right, you good Sean. Yeah, we're going to slow it down a little bit. Like I said, trying to match vibes, we got round number 10. Second Childhood by Nas off Steelmatic matic versus betrayal featuring scarface or a moment of truth I'm sorry, say that again.

Speaker 2: 2:18:52

I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said.

Speaker 3: 2:18:53

I'm sorry, say that again second childhood off of still matic by Nas versus Betrayal featuring Scarface off Moment of Truth. Slowing it down a little bit on this matchup, it's Betrayal Going Betrayal. Yeah, I'm going Betrayal.

Speaker 1: 2:19:17

I gotta go. Second Childhood man Alright, once this other poll is closed, we gonna have to open that one.

Speaker 3: 2:19:20

I gotta go. Second childhood man. All right, Once this other poll is closed, we gonna have to open that one.

Speaker 2: 2:19:24

Oh, okay, make them. Pay is up 53 to 47 right now, with 15 votes in.

Speaker 1: 2:19:31

Yeah, we can call that one in.

Speaker 2: 2:19:33

Now it's 50-50. Nope, I'll say 50-50. Come on, somebody close it out for us, somebody close it out for us, somebody close it out. I'll write that one down, we'll come back to it. Second Childhood, second Childhood and Betrayal and Betrayal Yep.

Speaker 3: 2:20:01

Who won the other one? I can't see it up on the Bring it on and Is that a gridlock?

Speaker 2: 2:20:07

Is that a?

Speaker 1: 2:20:08

gridlock. Yeah, that's wild, do we call it?

Speaker 3: 2:20:17

We gotta let one get to 51% Right. We can call it a draw, we call it. We got to let one get to 51% Right.

Speaker 1: 2:20:21

We can call it a draw. We can call it a draw, that might be the first draw. Nope.

Speaker 2: 2:20:27

Bring it on. Just broke the gridlock. All right, we'll take it. Bring it on Okay.

Speaker 1: 2:20:33

Bring it on, all right.

Speaker 3: 2:20:37

Next one is Second Childhood, second Childhood, second Childhood Betrayal.

Speaker 1: 2:20:48

Betrayal. Alright. What's the next?

Speaker 3: 2:20:53

one Round 11 Nas. I Gave you Power Off. It Was Written vs Robin Hood Theory Off Moment of Truth. I Gave you Power Off. It Was Written versus Robin Hood Theory Off Moment of Truth.

Speaker 2: 2:21:04

I Gave you Power. Yeah, I think that might be his most underrated beat. Actually it is.

Speaker 3: 2:21:10

It is. It's real sad, real sad. It matches the tone of the song it does.

Speaker 2: 2:21:16

It's underrated because people don't even know that it's him.

Speaker 3: 2:21:19

Right, it doesn't have a signature premier sound. It doesn't All right this. This is the point of the battle. Where but?

Speaker 2: 2:21:26

also to a signature per premier. Sound would have hurt. It was written as overall sound and scope, so it's still execution, especially in 96.

Speaker 3: 2:21:35

It would have it would have Very good point, yeah, very good point. So this it would have signed out very good point. So this is the part of the battle where it really heats up from here on out. It's crazy. Alright, number 12, round number 12. So Ghetto by Jay-Z off volume 3 versus. It's A Set Up off Moment of Truth. I love so.

Speaker 2: 2:21:57

Ghetto, I do too. I'm with Soghetto on that actually.

Speaker 1: 2:22:02

I gotta go Soghetto.

Speaker 2: 2:22:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:22:04

Soghetto's actually one of my favorite.

Speaker 2: 2:22:08

Soghetto's, one of my favorite J records.

Speaker 1: 2:22:11

It is one of my favorite J records, for real.

Speaker 2: 2:22:12

Yeah, see me in the streets with no bodyguard, just two big guns, though the body is small.

Speaker 3: 2:22:20

Listen, this is Primo competing with himself, Like did he give the best beats to other people outside the camp or keep them for Guru in their magnum opus? This is where it heats up Round number 13. Memory Lane versus In Memory Of.

Speaker 1: 2:22:44

Memory Lane.

Speaker 2: 2:22:44

Memory Lane. Memory Lane is memory lane versus a memory of memory lane. Memory lane memory lane is one of those man, it's one of those. It's one of those beat wise, it's one of those. Yeah, yeah, like lyrically it's that, but beat wise, it's that too and it doesn't even sound like another primor track.

Speaker 1: 2:22:55

It doesn't fit what he was doing it.

Speaker 2: 2:22:57

That's, that's, that's fair, that's right I think ilmatic is when his sound got established, though, because when people are like, well, he gave nas and big and all those guys better beats, it's like, yeah, when he was done with the gangsta album, like he did this in between two gangsta albums and and then he blew up so he did hold everything, like from 95 to 98, he held everything for guru okay, so did we get a winner on Second Childhood versus Betrayal?

Speaker 3: 2:23:22

I'll let you check.

Speaker 2: 2:23:24

Let's check Second Childhood's winning, although. I don't agree, you can go ahead and call that it's too far ahead. It's 69-31 with 15. 69, yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:23:33

Big J and Nas is on a run. They got the last handful of rounds. All right, coop, I'm going to ask you this you know my Steez, when you said, did your exercise at MC's, who did you pick as the number one for that record, big?

Speaker 2: 2:23:47

Big, big name all over it.

Speaker 3: 2:23:52

So for round 14, I got Kickin' the Door versus. You Know my Steez Kickin' the Door man.

Speaker 2: 2:23:58

Kickin'. You Know my Steez Kickin' the door man. Kicking. You know my Steve's Kicking the door man. Let's put it in the polls.

Speaker 1: 2:24:04

Let's put it in the polls. That's a tough one. That's a tough one. I ain't gonna lie. That's a tough one.

Speaker 3: 2:24:09

Put it in the polls. Put it in the polls.

Speaker 2: 2:24:13

Yeah, see, y'all are thinking about Big's mic performance. Y'all ain't thinking about the beat, the mic performance.

Speaker 3: 2:24:17

I ain't thinking about the beat, no, I love the beat. That's my second favorite premiere beat of all time. My top three is Above the Clouds Kicking the Door, and then New York. State of Mind. That's my top three.

Speaker 2: 2:24:30

You know my C's might be my favorite Gangstar record Period.

Speaker 1: 2:24:35

No, my C's is crazy. I was thinking about.

Speaker 3: 2:24:37

Nas' Like, Nas' Like would be in there, three or four, something like that.

Speaker 1: 2:24:40

But yeah, I just pulled that. That's a bit tough one, man, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:24:47

Go to the next one. That poll is going to happen fast.

Speaker 1: 2:24:49

Yeah, all right.

Speaker 3: 2:24:51

Round number 15. Jay-z, the intro, a million and one questions slash rhyme no more versus royalty off moment of truth Taking royalty.

Speaker 2: 2:25:00

Actually one question slash rhyme no more versus royalty off. Moment of Truth. Taking royalty, actually you taking royalty, I am.

Speaker 3: 2:25:07

I love a million and one. And it's switched to rhyme, no more.

Speaker 2: 2:25:12

I love royalty, though, because royalty is one of Premiere's best beats. That doesn't sound like a primo beat, though.

Speaker 1: 2:25:18

It doesn't, and that's why I have to go with Jay. Man, I have to go with Jay on this. I got to go with Rhyme, no More.

Speaker 3: 2:25:26

We'll have to pause that and put that one in a poll after this other one.

Speaker 1: 2:25:32

Yeah, Rhyme no More and Royalty right. Yeah, Kicking the door, 53% so far. Did we call it? It's six now.

Speaker 2: 2:25:42

No, no, no no, no, I want to wait.

Speaker 3: 2:25:45

How many votes does it have, though? Does it have more than 20?

Speaker 2: 2:25:48

Kicking the door. One it's 58 to 42. Yeah, 58 to 42. All right, we're looking better than a million and one. I'm sorry guys, I know man that million and one, y'all ain't thinking about Jay. Y'all ain't thinking about the beat.

Speaker 1: 2:26:00

I'm trying to compartmentalize it, man.

Speaker 3: 2:26:03

It's the beat switch for me. I'm a sucker for a beat switch.

Speaker 2: 2:26:07

I'm a sucker for a beat switch too, but that beat the royalty. The beat the royalty is so silky and so smooth. It's like if you were to just drop that record and be like DJ Premier made that beat, he'd be like no, he didn't.

Speaker 3: 2:26:19

It's a top five record for me on the album.

Speaker 1: 2:26:24

Let's put it out there, let that marinate.

Speaker 3: 2:26:29

Y'all ready to go to the next round? Yep, let's get it. Round number 16,. We got Represent by Nas of Illmatic versus the Militia, featuring Freddie Fox on Moment of Truth.

Speaker 1: 2:26:43

I got to take it. You going Militia, I'll go. Represent.

Speaker 3: 2:26:48

We might be pulling all these last matchups.

Speaker 1: 2:26:54

And Militia is tough, but I love Represent. Represent one of my favorite songs of all time. Yep, I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 2: 2:26:59

I don't love Represent the way everybody else does.

Speaker 3: 2:27:03

Represent is the most energy on Illmatic.

Speaker 2: 2:27:07

But it's the third best beat that Primo gave him on Illmatic I have it above Memory Lane.

Speaker 3: 2:27:14

I do too. Oh, I don't. It's Nas' rapping performance on Memory Lane that puts it up over top of it. Militia is special man, but Represent I don't. I don't. It's Nas' rapping performance on Memory Lane that puts it over top of it.

Speaker 1: 2:27:21

Militia is special man, but represent.

Speaker 2: 2:27:25

Okay, royalties up 60-40 with 15 votes in what the hell.

Speaker 3: 2:27:34

I love Sean rooting for Jay-Z. I'm not rooting for Jay, I'm rooting for Cream.

Speaker 1: 2:27:42

So we're going to do so. We call him.

Speaker 3: 2:27:45

Royalty. We call him Royalty on this one.

Speaker 2: 2:27:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:27:48

Royalty Represent versus Militia Yep.

Speaker 3: 2:27:57

Alright, oh, for everybody in the chat, I, you know, saying, got these joints in a playlist, this versus matchup and playlist for Spotify and Apple music. So tonight I'll be putting those on socials so y'all can listen to them joints for yourself no ready for the next one all right round. Number 17 unbelievable by big off of ready to die versus work off of moment of truth going unbelievable.

Speaker 2: 2:28:33

I love that beat.

Speaker 1: 2:28:33

That's one of my favorites work is good, though, man, work is crazy. Work is crazy. Man, I got to go. Unbelievable is special. Work is good.

Speaker 2: 2:28:52

Okay, people forget so Unbelievable is one of those beats that, stylistically, when it came out, we'd never heard. Came out, we'd never heard anything like that. Never heard it. We'd never heard those types of sounds being used that he used on Unbelievable no you didn't.

Speaker 1: 2:29:08

You hadn't heard those sounds before you got a glimpse of it. You got a glimpse of it with J Rool, with some of the production he did with J Rool, but not in full throttle like Unbelievable.

Speaker 2: 2:29:18

Right, he was on some other shit that day when he made Unbelievable Last record that got made for the album. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:29:26

Rightfully so. Yep, crunch time Alright. So we, you both went Unbelievable on that. So moving on Round number 18. This is my personal favorite round the Evils by Jay-Z on Reasonable Doubt versus JFK to LAX A moment of truth.

Speaker 2: 2:29:48

I'm going to go to Evils. Man, when I picked Jay for JFK to LAX, the Evils was the record that I was thinking.

Speaker 3: 2:29:55

That's why I was smiling the whole time you was talking Coop because I was like yo. This is lining up with what I heard in my matchups.

Speaker 2: 2:30:02

Does the sample count as part of the beat? Absolutely, then I would give the Evils the edge, because that Snoop, the Prodigy spice is just flawless execution. But I tell you, the beats are a tie, but the mix and the scratches on the Snoop and Prodigy sample is the tiebreaker for me. So I tell you the evils.

Speaker 1: 2:30:24

The evils is another high level. It's hard. It's hard to beat that.

Speaker 3: 2:30:28

So you're going to evils too, sean, absolutely. So yeah, when you said that Coop, you put Jay as your number one, that made me smile because I was like, okay, my ear was telling me right Because I number one. That made me smile because I was like, okay, my ear was telling me right, because I was like these two the vibe is in the same vein. It's very Jay-Z-esque. Same vibe? Yep, sure is.

Speaker 3: 2:30:46

Sure is so it's funny how that lined up unintentionally Round number 19, nas, the original New York State of Mind off Illmatic, versus my personal favorite, primo beat Above the Clouds off Moment of Truth.

Speaker 1: 2:31:02

What's your finales? Again, I'm sorry, new York State of Mind.

Speaker 3: 2:31:07

Oh, New York State of Mind.

Speaker 1: 2:31:09

You said that kind of quick Because, honestly, I was never a huge, huge fan of Above the Clouds.

Speaker 2: 2:31:17

I'm going to say Above the Clouds, we're going to have to poll that. Hold on. First of all, represent. Beat the militia by 71 to 20 guys. Take that down. Take that down Above the clouds. New York state of mind. Let's throw it up for debate.

Speaker 1: 2:31:37

You know I can't go against New York state of mind. Y'all have to understand that right. But we just talking about the beat, though I know Exactly yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:31:47

Wow, I got a butt of clouds, but I don't have a vote.

Speaker 1: 2:31:52

I just think that New York State Amar, it just represents New York. So much man it smells like New York.

Speaker 3: 2:32:00

So much man. It smells like it. New York has to hit different.

Speaker 1: 2:32:03

When you hear it, it smells like it Right.

Speaker 2: 2:32:05

I was about to say, it probably feels different for you as a native New Yorker, than it does for us still to hear it with hip-hop fans right, yeah. See, we're attached to the artistic merit and execution of him bringing us into that New York state of mind. You are a New Yorker and so that New York state of mind is different For us. It's being invited into a world. You have already been a part of the world so it probably hits different.

Speaker 1: 2:32:31

You can smell that shit right now. That beat. It smells like trash out here, that's fair.

Speaker 2: 2:32:40

When he said or either on Betting Grants, with the C-Lo champs laughing at base heads trying to sell some broken amps Like oh no, no, no, no, you can smell the piss from the staircase, you can smell the piss from the staircase. It's like, oh no, no, it's really pissy around here okay.

Speaker 1: 2:32:54

You see this redhead running across the street like yo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, redhead running across the street like yo.

Speaker 2: 2:32:58

Yeah, yeah, chuck a dick for VCR and all that.

Speaker 1: 2:33:03

Yeah, I don't see that. But yeah, I get it Sorry.

Speaker 2: 2:33:06

Sorry, that was that's the west side of Charlotte. That's west side of Charlotte.

Speaker 1: 2:33:10

That's west side of Charlotte, but we still have to compartmentalize the song Nas from the actual beat itself, so I do get that part Okay we Nas from the actual beat itself.

Speaker 2: 2:33:22

So I do get that part of it. Okay, we're 16 votes in. We're 50-50.

Speaker 3: 2:33:24

So let's go to the last one. All right, the last round, Round number 20. Nas is like off of I Am one of my personal favorites versus the title track Moment of Truth.

Speaker 2: 2:33:38

Okay, so I'm going to start out with okay, so, okay, so anytime start out with okay so. So I was never a big okay, so I'm not the fan of the Nas' like beat that everybody else is and I'm just gonna leave it right there, you just said that, cause Seagull said that on Hot 97.

Speaker 3: 2:33:54

It was too happy.

Speaker 2: 2:33:55

That's the only reason why you said it changed everything. Too happy, too happy. But that's the only reason why you said it Changed everything. Too happy, too happy. But I will tell you that it's still better than the Moment of Truth beat, in my opinion.

Speaker 3: 2:34:07

Moment of Truth is arguably the best record on the album.

Speaker 2: 2:34:11

It is Nas' Like is pretty special.

Speaker 3: 2:34:14

I still got Nas' Like, but Moment of Truth is heavy. I think Nas' Like is better like.

Speaker 1: 2:34:18

But moment of truth is heavy, I think not. Not like it's better and it's sad because not like was to your point, ag, when, all when beans made that comment. That's when we start hearing the narrative about not speak bad beats. Shortly after that, that comment on nas is like was a catalyst to not speak bad beats because of nostradamus and because everything I thought it was around before that, but it surely didn't help.

Speaker 3: 2:34:41

Definitely didn't help.

Speaker 1: 2:34:43

No, definitely not, they clowned it. They clowned that joint.

Speaker 3: 2:34:47

That's one of the greatest records.

Speaker 2: 2:34:49

Somebody break this tie between New York State of Mind and Above the Clouds please. It's 50-50.

Speaker 1: 2:34:54

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:34:56

There's 76 of you in here, just hit the button. Somebody hit the button Hit Above. Yeah, the worst. There's 76 of you in here, just hit the button. Somebody hit the button Hit above the clouds. Speaking of hitting buttons, hit like and subscribe if you haven't done that already, and then some asshole hit New York State of Mind when I just said something.

Speaker 3: 2:35:13

So New York State of Mind won.

Speaker 2: 2:35:15

Okay, I want to let you know what a real special asshole did. Somebody hit New York State of Mind and then the other person hit above the clouds to make it even again, and then the person that hit above the clouds took their boat away.

Speaker 1: 2:35:27

So if you're going on in the chat, that's why nobody liked it, new York State of Mind, and this stand is still at 53.

Speaker 2: 2:35:39

That's a conspiracy. We got to give these guys the Rico for this or something.

Speaker 3: 2:35:47

So the Biggie Jay-Z and Nas collaboration songs got 14 out of 20 rounds and the Moment of Truth album got six rounds. But I'll almost be inclined to give one round to y'all, because y'all took it to the chat even though y'all both voted otherwise.

Speaker 2: 2:36:06

So well, also, too, a lot of these records got made, I believe pre preem, like making this moment of truth stuff. It's like, well, the stuff that's on ready to die, illmatic and reasonable doubt. You know what I stuff. It's like, well, the stuff that's on ready to die, ilmatic and reasonable doubt. You know what I'm saying. It's like the stuff that's on I am is is more comparable time wise. The stuff that's on volume one is more comparable time wise. The stuff that's on life after death, the stuff that's on the 18th letter, that would be the stuff like so for me, I wouldn't necessarily pull the stuff from illmatic. That is like it's crazy that it seems like, well, it was four years apart but it's a whole nother world yeah, the conversation is if moment of truth is his zenith as a producer.

Speaker 3: 2:36:53

You know, if we put that album through the gauntlet of some of his other best produced tracks for more notable mcs, what does that look like? And I didn't expect moment of truth to win, but I was more interested in seeing how close it was well, here's the thing about it.

Speaker 2: 2:37:08

Is that, well, the stuff that's in those artists catalog, that's their best stuff, and so that actually lets you know how strong moment of truth is the fact that it's competing with jay and Nas' best stuff?

Speaker 3: 2:37:19

Yeah, it was majorly instrumental no pun intended, instrumental in their early careers. Big time, all three of them. It's like Primo was a rite of passage, like you know, on their debuts and that Big Jay and Nas all had to go through pre to create their classics.

Speaker 1: 2:37:36

He helped orchestrate the sound of the golden era of New York hip-hop. He was from Texas. He's a pillar to that. Honestly, he's one of the pillars to that and it's not many producers you can say that are a pillar to that. He's one of them. Him RZA, who else? Lars Pro? Yeah, these guys are pillars. I mean Pete Rock, Pete Rock.

Speaker 2: 2:38:05

Those would be the five guys. When people talk about East Coast hip-hop to me from the era that I grew up in, I know Marley Hall proceeds, but for me I was taught Lars Professor Q-Tip Havoc. Primo RZA Havoc.

Speaker 3: 2:38:21

Those are the guys and that's what makes Illmatic special Cause he had 75% of those people curate that one out.

Speaker 2: 2:38:28

Yeah, and this is what I keep telling people about. It was written. No, he's not wrong. He subbed out Q-tip for Havoc. Subbed out Q-tip for Havoc. Primo's still on there, I have it.

Speaker 3: 2:38:38

Cream is still on there, you know what I'm saying. No, lars Pro, lars Pro got subbed out for Trackmasters.

Speaker 2: 2:38:43

We can talk about that. Talk about that behind the scenes. We'll talk about that.

Speaker 1: 2:38:47

What do you get? What do you get? 96 RZA on. It Was Written.

Speaker 2: 2:38:52

Oh my God, not fair. It's Chico shit.

Speaker 3: 2:38:55

Chico Can't imagine.

Speaker 2: 2:38:57

Chico.

Speaker 1: 2:38:58

That's crazy.

Speaker 2: 2:39:01

All right, fellas Anything before we get out of here.

Speaker 3: 2:39:03

That's it.

Speaker 2: 2:39:05

All right.

Speaker 3: 2:39:05

Great show fellas.

Speaker 1: 2:39:07

Like, share, subscribe. If you rock with this dope content, this original content, spread the word. Spread the word. We're going to post it on all the socials. Ag, if you can, let's post this matchup on the socials so the people on socials can actually engage as well. Tell a friend to tell a friend. Hit us up, let's get it, peace.

Speaker 2: 2:39:32

Great week guys. Long live hip hop Salute.

Speaker 1: 2:39:36

Salute, queens, get the money.