The Cameron Brown Show
Where people, ideas, politics, culture, science, and the unknown collide. No limits. Just conversation and discovery.
The Cameron Brown Show
Producing Bussin' with the Boys, Building Make it To Midnight & Why Authenticity Wins w/ J.P. Hovey
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J.P. Hovey joins me in studio to talk producing Bussin' With The Boys, hosting Make It To Midnight, and co-hosting The Slice Tennis Podcast. Two South Carolina guys, one conversation about the world of podcasting and the future of human connection.
J.P. shares the unglamorous origin story: working as a houseparent at IMG Academy, knocking on doors in Boca Raton, paying $600 a month rent thanks to a generous friend, and grinding through two years of loneliness before landing the Bussin' With The Boys gig through a chance connection with Michael Chandler.
Five years later, he's been cage-side at the UFC, on the field for College Football Playoff games, and interviewed guys he grew up idolizing. The conversation goes deep on the stuff most podcast interviews skip:
- Turning 30 and what actually changes
- The "strength of weak ties" and how every major break comes from someone you barely know
- Why authenticity is going to win the next decade of media
- The looming AI bubble and what happens when people start craving real human connection again
- RFK's media strategy vs. pro-athletes who often want clips edited out
- Why long-distance runners and pro tennis players are leaving millions on the table by ignoring their personal brand
- The Michael Vick redemption arc
- David Goggins, mogging, and how kids today are growing up in such a different world than we did
- J.P. also breaks down the vision for Make It To Midnight, a passion project built around a line his dad gave him during one of the hardest stretches of his life: "You just gotta make it to midnight every single day. You never know what could happen in the next 24 hours, but you've gotta show up for them."
Follow J.P.: @jhovey34
Make It To Midnight: @makeit2midnight
Bussin' With The Boys: @bussinwtb
The Slice Tennis Podcast: @theslicetennis
The Cameron Brown Show is where people, ideas, politics, culture, science, and the unknown collide. No limits. Just conversation and discovery. Watch on YouTube. Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and iHeart Radio.
The Cameron Brown Show — Conversations on Politics, Culture, Science & the Unknown
#JPHovey #BussinWithTheBoys #MakeItToMidnight #TheSliceTennisPodcast #CameronBrownShow #PodcastLife #PodcastProducer #SouthCarolina #SECFootball #SportsMedia #ContentCreation #Entrepreneurship #Networking #sports #Tennis #podcast
It was so ground floor to what I'm doing now and like fully knocking on doors, introducing myself, having doors closed in my face, all of those stories that you hear. So I start getting better and better at editing, but I'm not seeing any opportunities for growth. So I'm like, I'm just gonna go start my own videography business, try to and see what happens. Now you look at these last five years, and it's like we've got to meet the president, we've got to sit case shot at the UFC, we've gotten to be on the field for college football playoff games, we've been to the national championship basketball game, we've interviewed guys I've looked up to my whole entire life. It's just crazy to go from that to what has been these last five years. And it was truly, I've been like trying to sort of look at it as like math, not math, I'm bad at math, but maybe a math problem of like, though, I spent like two years of really, really hard work, loneliness, and all kinds of things. JP, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, man. How you doing, man? Doing great. I know you're you're a familiar face, even though we've never met. Yeah, I swear we've met before. I'm excited to get to it. Maybe know you.
SPEAKER_00Maybe it was a past life. Had to be a past life.
SPEAKER_02You all do you know Cam Jensen? I do not know. So he went to um he went to Citadel also. Okay. He's a music agent now. We were roommates in Nashville.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Y'all got the same great, uh, like great jaw lines, great chins, great, like high cheekbones. Y'all kind of look the same.
SPEAKER_00We appreciate that. Handsome guys. Handsome guys. Appreciate that. That's awesome. That's a great way to start the podcast. Yeah, honestly. We've got we've got to compliment the boys more often. I feel like that needs to be the case. But uh I'm not, I'm not a um, I'm not sure how much you've you've you've all this stuff online, but I'm not a maxer or a mogger or whatever the new words are. I'm like, dude, all these, I was like, I have no idea what's going on anymore. No hammer to the chin. No, there's no hammer to the chin. I mean, I've been hit in the face before plenty of times. But there's no hammer to the chin, to say the least. That world, it's a different world. I can't stand a different world altogether. Well, it's also for show, and I think that's like the other thing, too. And you're like, okay, like we we do podcasts and we we love this space, but um, there's obviously like a level of authenticity to you that you're like, I'm trying to be an authentic guy. Like this is me. I'm not trying to be something else. And those guys are all like they're they're very much uh putting on a show. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think a temporary show. I mean, I think it starts out as a show and then it does become their identity because it's like, especially that in the stream world, 24 hours a day on camera. Yeah, how do you not get lost in it?
SPEAKER_00Well, like it has to become your identity, especially when you start making you know big money. You're like, okay, well, I'm now at a million dollars a month. The only way to keep this going is to just become more extreme. Right. And to max or MOG more, whatever the words are now. Once again, I we we we throw them around kind of jokingly in our in our friend group, and some of our more like I would consider them more like intellectual individuals in our friend group.
SPEAKER_02They love it because they're like, this is the most hysterical thing I've ever seen in my entire life. It's cool to them, like they they finally know something that the kids are doing. We had uh Dan Orlovsky come on the podcast that I work for, and at the end of the episode, they took a photo and Dan was like in the foreground, and so was Taylor. Will was in the background, and they were like, Taylor was like, Oh, Will, we're moging you. And Dan, if you've watched Dan Orlovsky on TV, he's like the dad of the year, like the most dad person ever. And he's like, What's mogging? And I'm just like, Man, imagine just being mid-30s, early 40s. You're mogging is taking over the conversation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I mean, it's like for us too. It's like any anything growing up, any new dance, any new word. I think about like our like middle school and high school teachers, probably like learning all about these new words these kids were bringing to the table. And you're like, What is this kid talking about?
SPEAKER_02Like, what is this is a new vocabulary. We didn't teach them that, dude. I was listening to a uh podcast with the Navy SEAL, his name is like DJ something. But they were talking about, he was like, dude, in the 70s and 80s, you show up to a job fair, and there's three people there's a jacked cop with a mustache, there's a fireman, and there's usually a black marine that's just doing pull-ups all day. And those were the three things you wanted to be in the 70s and 80s. He's like, now kids want to be clav, moging, and doing like TikTok dance and everything. He's like, no, be a fighter pilot. And he says it in kind of like an OD military way, yeah. But I'm like, that is true. Like the whole what people want now is just so different.
SPEAKER_00Well, I don't, it's like also, how do you tell a kid that they can't be that, right? It's like for me, like I wanted to be a I wanted to play in MLB as a kid, right? And I told them I was like, I'm gonna be a star baseball player, and then you get to like 10th, 11th grade, and you're like, I don't really like enjoy this as much anymore. But and they told me that when I was eight, nine years old, but I didn't want to listen to it. Right. They were haters at that stage. Absolutely haters. And so it's like the same thing, you don't want to tell a kid they can't be something necessarily, but you do kind of want to try, I get it now. You want to try to guide them down a good path, which you know, serving the military, firefighter, whatever, those are great occupations. Right. And we really should be steering more people towards those kinds of occupations. But when you have somebody like a clav that's making all this money live streaming and doing all these things, I mean, it's true. Like the why would you not want to potentially be do that and live that lifestyle when it looks so appealing online? Yeah. But it I feel like it does take maybe till you know how exactly how old you are, but till like roughly 30 years old. I'm 30. Yeah, and you hit this age and you're like, well, I don't really know those things matter that much anymore. Are you are you 30? I am, just turned 30.
SPEAKER_02How did your how was your the week of the I just turned through I turned 30 in December? Oh, yeah, right. That's right. We got birthdays right by each other, one week apart. Joint birthday party soon. Yeah, you gotta do that. But how how was it? Yeah, true. I was for those that don't know, I was born on Christmas Day. Uh and my yes, my name is JP. I'll let you figure out what the J stands for. Uh but how was your 30th birthday week? Because for me, like it hit me hard, but um you might have it might have just been another day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think 30 for me was like it was just another day, and I'm not a big birthday party guy, never have been a big birthday party guy. And I I think more than anything, I was just like, wow, like we've got to start figuring certain things out. But then I also simultaneously realized that I there's so much to figure out, and I'm okay with that. I'm like, okay, like there's still a lot to figure out, but I the same thing that happened to me at 21, same thing that happened to me at 25, same thing that happened to me at 30. It's probably gonna continue to happen the same way. I don't think we've ever we ever really fully know everything. So we have so much more to learn, which is ultimately what makes life kind of enjoyable too, right? It's like there's so much more to find out and figure out. But I just for my birthday, I was like, yeah it's just it's just another one. And everybody wants to throw a party, nobody wants to do all these things. I just I all I was actually I was abroad, we were I got engaged that week of my my birthday, and so we were abroad and we had a great trip. Uh we did Scotland, uh, and then we went into the Cotswolds and then finished in l in London. So we did a full like UK trip, which was which is great. Yeah. Um, but I I would my that's how I like to like spend my birthday. I don't want to be like at a birthday party necessarily. Right. Um, so but but how about you?
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean what was kind of the the biggest dude, I like for whatever reason, and again, like my birthday is on Christmas, so birthday parties don't really happen. Sitting, my wife, she's now thrown me two surprise birthday parties, crushed it, and they're a blast. Yeah, but you know, typically it's like my birthday is not to make everybody feel bad for me, but one of the more forgotten birthdays because you you give me your text, like, hey JP, Merry Christmas, man. Hope you hope and your family have a great day. Like, yeah, man, Merry Christmas, like whatever. But uh, I'm not as salty as I sound on the show. But they uh You share it with a great individual. I do, a hard one to live up to, but it was uh for whatever reason, I just could not stop thinking about how 15 years from now I'll be 45, and 15 years ago I'll 15. And I I felt so just like man, how in the heck did we get here? And I I uh I never wanted to grow up as a kid. I loathed like you know, going from elementary school to middle school, middle school to high school. I enjoyed all of them, but I never was looking forward to like the next step. And it was, I think when I got to 30, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so far away from my childhood, and I'm only getting closer to more of my adulthood. I'm married, I'm 30 years old, but I definitely have more of like a kid spirit, childlike mind. And uh, I don't know, dude, 30 was just hit me. And then it's I'm a deep person. I like to think, like I think about a lot of these things, but even more so when I'm 30, it's just like, dude, what do I really want? And like, what do when I'm 45, what the heck do I hope my life is like? And how different do I want it to be than right now? And then by doing the things that's gonna make it different than it is right now. And this is all happening in my apartment in Nashville, and I'm just pacing around the room. So it's like, what happened to you? I'm like, I'm 30, you don't understand, like you're still 29.
SPEAKER_00I I told I told you the story, but like my I I'm training for this 50 miler, and last week during my 20-mile run, which was miserable because I'm a bow-legged guy. Like I've always been a sprinter, I've never been a long distance guy. Yeah, my body literally is just not built for it. And uh, the outsides of my knees and my IT band, everything's just hurting terribly. And uh, I got to like mile 11, mile 12, and I just I kind of started crying for like it was like a five-second bit, and I was like, what is going on right now? I was like, is this like a am I emotional right now, or is that is just my body reacting to the run, or am I hurting that bad? And I just it hit me for a moment. I realized like there's just so much going on in in the world, in our lives, at this point in your life, in your existence, and it it's it's heavy stuff, and so at random times, I'm not like guys cry too. Hey, right, it happens, but it hit me so hard. I was like, Well, I was like, why am I crying right now at this point in my life? I was like, I should, I'm super happy. Yeah, I was like, but I am it all just hit me at once. Um, so I don't necessarily pace back and forth, but I do go for for long runs right now that lead to kind of the same thing.
SPEAKER_02I haven't done it since. Hopefully, I've been taking the steps in the right direction. But yeah, it was just interesting. So I'm like, man, I don't know. It's there's a part of me that too, when you look back on it, I'm like, it is fun to grow up. Like we're talking before, I've been in my job for five years, and recently I've just been thinking, I'm like, man, I'm such a different person than I was five years ago to now. And like five years and in a 75-year lifespan is not crazy, but it's nuts, just like how your interests can change. And I think that's so many people will get stuck, and like you do your thing at 26 years old, whatever job you're having, it's like this is this is for me, this is all that's for me. Yep. And not realizing just like, man, they you you're hopefully you've changed. If you haven't changed since you're 26 years old, and if you don't have new interests, like you might need to surround yourself with some different people.
SPEAKER_00Right. I mean, I think that's kind of one of the main reasons of podcasting too, and like just having these conversations in general is to meet new people and to think about different things from a different perspective, or to think about things from a different perspective. And uh, this has been eye-opening to me and super humbling too over the past couple years of having these conversations and having these experiences. But what I do find is that there's a lot of consistencies across the board. And you have met with some of the, I mean, some incredible people over the past five years too. Um, and I do want to talk a lot about you know your experience as a producer and all the above. Um, but I'm sure it's been kind of a bit of a roller coaster, like having these conversations with these folks that have done incredible things and they're still doing incredible things, but there's still like something they're looking for, they're still trying to like reach across the board. Yeah. Um, and I think for me, I I you try to be as fulfilled as possible in everything you do, but there's it's like always like there's something else, like you're reaching for, you're trying to find something else in yourself. And a lot of people looked for like spirituality and religion to fill that void and fill that gap. And I think it does to a certain degree, but I think there's also a human element for us that's like, wow, this is kind of wild that I I still desire other things, right? Even though my 15-year-old self would be like, Whoa, dude, it's kind of cool that you know you've you're doing certain things now. I I would never would have expected you to even done those things. Right. Um, so with let's just dive into busting with the boys though. Um, you started that five years ago?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 20 May 2021. So around this time is when I moved to Nashville.
SPEAKER_00Cool. And uh you've been with them obviously ever since. Y'all have traveled all over the country and have y'all done any world travel? No world travel.
SPEAKER_02We've tried, but okay, other outer forces prevailed.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha. Gotcha. But um, but just let's just talk about that for a minute. What does that what does that look like? How's that been?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, it's been cool because before busting with the boys, I was living in Florida and I worked at IMG Academy for a little while, and I was basically your freshman year RA, or do y'all have RAs at citadel?
SPEAKER_00I mean, something similar. Yeah, but you know what they are. Yeah, yeah. But like we had like TAC officers overlooked battalions and people on each floor and about his different roles, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh I was like, yeah, like they call it like a house parent too there. So I was when I first started there, I was with a lot of the different high schoolers going to different floors, different sports, whatever. Then for a full school year, I was with middle schoolers. And it's like one of me and 50 kids that are all boarding from all over the world, and it was fun. I love working with kids, love pouring into them, but it was hard emotionally. It was hard. And the whole time I'm like doing building my videography skills in hopes to like, oh, let me go. Maybe I'll get it on the marketing side, social media side of IMG, because all kinds of pro athletes train there or whatever. So I start getting better and better at editing, but I'm not seeing any opportunities for growth. So I'm like, I'm just gonna go start my own videography business, try to and see what happens. Florida, tons of people, tons of great athletes live there, tons of MMA gyms, tons of tennis, tons of football, all things I'm into. And so I started, and actually, Steven Garcia, who we were talking about before, he former GameCog quarterback, he's going through stage four colon cancer right now. But he was one of the first guys that I was working with, and I met him through this other guy, Matt Jones, who played running back at Florida. But Steven was there throwing, and I'm a lifelong GameCog fan. And I'm see Steven Garcia there, and I'm like, oh snap. And we become friends, awesome relationship. But the business, I don't know how to run a business. I don't know what to charge people. I don't know how much I really need to like each month to make ends meet, whatever. And so I knew that whatever I was making over in Bradenton wasn't enough. So I moved over to Boca Ratona, Florida, and that's where I started to like get my footing a little bit, working with a lot of MMA gyms, uh a lot of tennis players, tennis academies, and that's when the Bust with the Boys opportunity came up. And the reason I'm giving any kind of backstory is because it was so ground floor to what I'm doing now, and like fully knocking on doors, introducing myself, having doors closed in my face, all of those stories that you hear. And uh now you pass you look at these last five years, and it's like we've got to meet the president, we've got to sit cage out at the UFC, we've gotten to be on the field for college football playoff games, we've been to the national championship basketball game, we've interviewed guys I've looked up to my whole entire life, and it wasn't but five years ago that you know I was making like a thousand dollars a month and could only live there because my boy Juan Puerta was letting me pay rent for six hundred dollars a month, and but it's also crazy that finds you find you a boy that'll let you pay six hundred dollars a month for a month. Find you Juan Puerta in Boca Ratona, Florida.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02But uh yeah, man, it's just crazy to go from that to what has been these last five years, and it was truly I've been like trying to sort of look at it as like math, not math, I'm bad at math, but maybe a math problem of like okay, so I spent like two years of really, really hard work, loneliness, and all kinds of things, but it got me five years of lifetime experiences, like that trade-off is so worth it. Yeah, and but I've just like man, as you try to level up, it's like it gets harder and harder because you get to make more money, you get a little bit more comfortable. But yeah, so it's been the last five years have been a dream compared to the two years prior to that.
SPEAKER_00Right. And I mean, once again, you've met some incredible people along the way, built a lot of skills. I mean, you earlier we were talking about production and sitting in this studio and all the things that I can do. And frankly, I appreciate all the insight and all of the I mean, I just think it's it's gonna be very helpful in helping me to level up what we're doing here, which if anybody's been watching any of my stuff over the years, they know that a lot of that's been like garbage content because I've just been trying to just get it out. Yeah, but when you realize how much goes into this, I have mad respect for what you do. Yeah, um, now that I've been doing it and well, trying to do it. Um, but for those that are listening in, JP's been sharing a bunch of his knowledge over the past like 30 minutes with me. Different tools, different kits, you know, roadcasters, all this different stuff and technology, and you're like, there's so much that goes into this, but also it can be as simple as just picking up your phone and recording on your phone to get things started. And I think for the for those that are like maybe getting started and thinking about getting started in this space too, when you think about doing any kind of recording or anything in life, people like to overcomplicate things and say, Oh, you have to get all this stuff or do all these things. Yes, it does make it easier to have the technology and tools, but more than anything, it's like you just gotta get started, you just gotta do something, just move in the right direction and like start surrounding yourself with good people and start surrounding yourself with people that are actually gonna support you and whatever it is that you're you're planning on doing. Um, because obviously now five years later you've been busting the voice and the podcast has grown significantly. Yeah, um, and uh and y'all are y'all are crushing it. So true testament to all the work that the guys have put in, plus obviously the the folks on the back end that are making it happen, right?
SPEAKER_02And dude, you're so right with just like the especially the equipment, like you it's so easy to convince yourself of a million reasons to like why not to do something. I need this thing, I need that, like nothing will work if I don't have this. But dude, I mean YouTube was literally built on people like screwing around with they didn't even have camera phone, like camera phones, and then the one like the I don't really like Logan Paul, but like what he built is insane, yeah. And that was all from his phone and like mini cameras, and they upload it every single day for a year. Yeah, and a lot of people can be mad and hate on him, but it's like okay, like you you can go out there and film and upload a video for 365 days, but you won't because it's hard. And now he's getting to live a great life because he was willing to like face the hard. But even in busting, dude, like some of our best content is truly just off the phone, yeah, and it's in all of the real-time content, like it's not the long-form vlog video that I'm making, it's not the podcast clip, it's when a guest walks through the doors and you're filming it on your phone and something random happens, and you just upload it and it's like boom.
SPEAKER_00We we talk a lot about on this podcast. I told you before, it's a lot of politics and business and conspiracy theories. And um, this well, the one that I'm uh releasing probably next week. It was with a guy who's been abducted multiple times his entire life. And the past abduction experience was him on a spacecraft, and he actually videoed it. And we have the film or the the um the video to analyze, and we analyzed it in the last podcast. All these random things. Um, but I think about a lot of those things, and I think about the sensationalism now online, like everything's sensationalized, and all this information gets shared, and it's like doomsday into the world, whatever, and like that seems like the way to get people's attention, right? Which it does, but you're almost kind of manipulating people into getting their attention, and I've I've become a lot less of a fan. I'm not a huge fan of that anymore. I'm just like I've never really been a fan of it, but it is what evokes like an emotional response from individuals, and so I I have this opinion with all the podcasts and all the stuff that's starting in the media space that like authenticity is gonna it's gonna win at the end of the day. When you see like Sean Hannity now has his own show where he's like trying to chill out and be more like Tucker Carlson, and all these guys are trying to be more relaxed, so a camera angle of you just talking is like the most authentic version of yourself, just you with your camera hanging out and having a conversation. So I think that's my opinion of the next five, 10, 15 years is more of that will win.
SPEAKER_02Definitely, and it's crazy because in the political world, like I do I love the the game of it, like how these people are getting the influence over everyone. Like, how did Donald Trump win? Why did Kamala Harris lose? Where like because to me, it's all like that social strategy now is everything. Yeah, and the people that win that are winning the elections, right? And what was interesting is we interviewed RFK like when while he was running for president, and obviously everybody felt a whole lot different about RFK when he was running compared to they do now, because everybody believed in the things that he was running for, or that group of people believed in things he was running for. Then when he stopped, they're like, we actually hate him. Crazy. But one of the most high profile people in the country's history, yeah, just with his family. And you know, we have athletes on all the time, musicians that they want to see the episode after, get things cut out, probably shouldn't have said this, probably shouldn't have said that. RFK Steam, post it straight through. Whatever y'all think is gonna do best. Post it and I'm like, wow, like, but unnamed starting running back in the NFL doesn't want X, Y, and Z thing because it could make him look whatever. And I'm like, and like that's rare, and it's why I think he had some like he had success. And it's why a lot of those people have success. But it's just it's so fascinating to watch.
SPEAKER_00Agreed. And there's um, I mean, whether or not whether I like it or not, I think more so from an editing perspective, it just takes a lot of time to edit things out.
SPEAKER_02That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, that's why I don't do it more than anything. It's like it just takes so much time.
SPEAKER_02All right, you got no idea that you you could have just lost some votes. You asking me to edit this thing out just because it's gonna take me an hour to go do it.
SPEAKER_00And it is so true that like the in the last election cycle, though, I mean, the Trump did dominate the podcast scene. Like he dominated the podcast scene. And the den on the Democratic side, they just did not want, they didn't care to hop on his podcast. Now they're doing it. Right. Very clearly now they're doing it. Um, but that media strategy is is also wild to analyze and review over time. Not saying I'm I'm leaning any any direction now. I'm very independent in my political views at this point. Yeah, a million percent. And I like staying independent in my views. Um, because frankly, I think there's a lot of information, there's new information that comes out every day that as I consume more knowledge and information, some of it might be disinformation, but as I consume more of it, I'm start, I my opinions on things change every literally on a daily basis. Right. And I think I think that's okay. Um personally. But some people be like, oh, you have to pick a camp and go with it. Like, no, no, that's not how I feel about it.
SPEAKER_02Independent, man, it's the way to go.
SPEAKER_00I don't know how you feel about like sports teams, but do you have who are your sports teams?
SPEAKER_02I'm just I'm pretty much just a game cock through and through. So growing up, I was like a Falcons fan. Okay, but I was a Falcons fan because Michael Vick, like, you know, I'm at the time when Vic's coming up, I'm like eight years old, nine years old, which is peak. Yep. Your brain is just ready to get imprinted with whoever the best, most fun NFL player is or college football player. And Michael Vick was that guy. He was the man. And I'll, yeah, I mean, I'm somebody that I defend Michael Vick to this day. Still, still it's uh in in a in a fun way.
SPEAKER_00From a football perspective, I'm assuming like football football. Okay, just for that.
SPEAKER_02I am I'm I am all about Michael Vick's redemption arc as well. I think he's doing amazing like him going and taking a job at Norfolk Steak, which HBCU, like the amount of kids that look up to Michael Vick, and especially these kids that he's coaching, like the amount of lives that he's going to be able to change is awesome. And he has the story of like, guys, like this is what happens when you surround yourself with the people that I surrounded myself with. Right. You get into bad situations, and I it will still blow my mind that he did he had to do like 60 days solitary confinement at one point, and it's like, wow. So I'm all about the redemption arc, I'm not about the dog fighting.
SPEAKER_00I didn't defend that. Got it. As long as as long as we can draw that line too. I was like, let's just make sure we think we're gonna go. One second.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um cool.
SPEAKER_00But I forgot what was the uh I don't know. We're talking about Michael Bacon dog fighting.
SPEAKER_02I'm kind of oh my sports fans. Yep. I was a Falcons fan like growing up. Um, but as I got older, I just went into the NFL as much. And I'm really just kind of followed my college guys to the NFL, so whatever team they're on. Gotcha. I support them. And I and I love being a fan. And I think what's cool, there's definitely a lot of unhealthy fans out there where I'm like, you gotta let this get like at the end of the day, these are college kids, and like we are fans of South Carolina, like we're not gonna win every game. We lost the Citadel. But such a great game, such a great game, crazy game, crazy game, and uh, but it's cool because like my fandom has helped me in the industry that I'm in. Like it made me more of a desirable candidate for the job because, like, oh, he loves SEC football, right? He loves South Carolina, and South Carolina has a big fan base at the end of the day, and I'm have been able to like evoke emotions out of South Carolina fans just by sharing my fandom. Right. And it's cool to see like the thing that you love so much as a kid become an asset for you when you're an adult. And I think a lot of people it's like in most industries, you know, your fandom doesn't matter at all. But it's like how many kids you know growing up, what they want to do is be a broadcaster or do something with sports. Something around sports, all of us, right? Every single one of us. And it's like you get to college and a lot of the jobs are low paying, yeah, and especially in the beginning, but like you kind of lose your fandom of the game just because of you know, I don't know, like the things that you end up wanting out of life. So it's been cool that like the the fandom has helped.
SPEAKER_00This is just a fun side conversation. But I when I think about like kids that that want to do things, especially after like you graduate college and then you you want to be in an industry or you want to be like around this, you want to be in sports of some kind or an organization, and they're like, oh well, the pay is not near as good. You're like, well, the way that I look at it is if you really, if you know for a fact you want to be in that space, those are the people you need to be around. And frankly, like take the job, take the gig, figure it out, find yourself a a friend that'll that'll charge you $500, $600 a month for rent and like go do that because you're the people you network with and have those experiences with more than anything, are gonna lead to better opportunities long term. Um, and maybe this is just the way that society has screwed with our brains nowadays. But you think, oh, I graduated college, I've got this degree, I should be making a million dollars a year or whatever the amount is that people think they should be making. Um it's like, no, like this is a this is a grind, this is a process. Right. Um, and unless you already have the network and you're a trust fund, maybe you don't necessarily have it. And that's and that is totally fine. Um, and um, but I think taking that role, and I've got a couple friends that are still doing it right now that are with these organizations because they love the sport. Yeah, one friend in particular um works for he's a basketball coach, and he's like watching him work his way up the ranks has been really cool, but also he just loves it. And you're like, dude, go do that because eventually you know you're gonna be asked to become the head basketball coach and or GM or whatever, and you're gonna make making plenty of money and it's gonna be the best experience of your life. Um, but I feel like too many people drop out too early on because it's just not necessarily paying as much.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And as I know it's difficult, it's like difficult for me to because I I was the same way. I was like, I can't do this anymore. Um I want to make money. But if you are that passionate about something and you know for a fact that that's what you want to be doing, stick in and be around that environment. Yeah, all the time.
SPEAKER_02The environment is everything too. Because the that first gym that I was finally found some footing in in South Florida, uh, Michael Chandler, he trained at that gym. And he's for those that don't know Mike Chandler, he's a UFC fighter, like what was one of the top guys for a while, and uh somebody I looked up to a lot. I just love everything he's about. And so, you know, I get to know him just a little bit, nothing crazy. But when Will puts up his Instagram story about the busting with the boys job, and I go search up their podcast, and I see Michael Chandler's been a guest. I go to Michael Chandler, I'm like, hey, what what's the deal with these guys? You like them? Like, I'm just starting interviewing. Oh, those are my boys. You know, you do good work here, I'll put in good work for you there. And it's like all that happens because of just the relationship and networking. And I didn't know Michael Chandler knew these guys. I didn't know I'd be applying for a job with them, right?
SPEAKER_00But the world is a lot smaller than we think. The world's a lot smaller than people think, and also like Instagram and LinkedIn and Facebook and Twitter and whatever. I mean, like you were a message away. Like, and especially, you know, the way that we met was through Instagram.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And a friend was like, oh, like y'all should y'all should connect. But just like you got to put it out in the universe. I'm gonna say, like, this is what I'm looking to do, or I'm interested in this, and especially for people like myself where like you might have a million different interests, and if you're like, I don't really know what it is, but put it out there, go meet with somebody, and then you'll realize if it's what you want to do or not want to do, and you just keep going. But don't stop putting it out in the universe, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like people will complain all the time about not having what they want and people not helping them get what they want, but they've never told anybody what they want. Yeah, and it's except outside of their just like close friend. It's like your close friend is not gonna do much. And there's a there's a book, it's called A Defining Decade. Have you read it? I'm not, no, but I'm familiar with it, but I haven't read it yet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, also not a big reader. I need to like, I need to read a lot more. A big audiobook guy.
SPEAKER_02A big audiobook guy, yeah. So when you when somebody asks you like how many books did you read this year, do you give them like no?
SPEAKER_00I'm like, I don't, I just like I read a I read a bunch online. I read a bunch of articles and like, but I don't necessarily read a book from start to finish.
SPEAKER_02The reason I asked that is because I take issue with the people that are like, oh man, I've read 10 books this month. And I'm like, well, hang on. I'll I'm not gonna let audiobooks slide.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. I listen to a lot of content.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Do I read from start to finish very rarely? Yeah. Oh gotta get better at that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but it was uh in the book, I think Meg J is the name of the lady that wrote it, but she talks about the strength of weak ties and how those like one-off connections are way more likely to help you than your like inner circle. And she breaks down the psychology of it that I don't have down off the top of my brain. But truly, like every single, I feel like major connection I've had in my life has come from like weak ties, and it's just it's fascinating to look to observe like from a zoomed out perspective, and I'm like, man, it's just you have to network. You've got to network.
SPEAKER_00I've never thought about it like that, but that's so true though. Yeah, but just like the saying weak ties. I've always thought it was like I have to build really strong relationships with all these people in order to get to this next level or in order to reach what I you know, what I want next. I've also struggled with like asking this is another asking for something from somebody because you don't want to use up like that relationship, you don't want to abuse that relationship. You appreciate that you have that connection, but you don't want to abuse it. Um, but there's nothing wrong with just like throwing out an ask. Like, hey, would you mind connecting me with this person? Right. Um, especially if you have something valuable to offer. Or you bleed you.
SPEAKER_02It's just like this. I mean, like Jake and I are friends, but we're not like close friends. Right. And but he was the one that messaged on my Instagram and was like, hey, I have a friend that does this. Let me get you connected. Yeah. And now, you know, in a couple hours, hopefully, I'll have one of my bigger guests on my podcast because of Jake putting us together. Right. And it's like, that's a perfect example of the strength that we've got to do.
SPEAKER_00You gotta appreciate it, but you also have to know what you want too. I think that's another thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know that a lot of I think a lot of us don't really know exactly what we want. And I think that's one of the biggest things is once you figure out what you want and then you put it onto the universe, then it starts to come to you. But until you really can define what that is, it's hard for the anybody, whether you're spiritual or religious, hard for anything to give you any. It's hard for the universe to give you anything if you don't know what you want to begin with. You can't be like, oh, I just kind of want to make money. It's like, well, that's great, but you can go make money, but are you doing it in the way that you want to do it?
SPEAKER_02You gotta be detailed, right? That's why I know somebody, I can't remember if they came to speak to a class or something, but it was like, you know, they asked somebody, like, what's your dream? What's your dream? What do you want? type question. I want to be a sportscaster. Okay, like for what company? What sport do you want to cover? Which who do you want to work next to you? And there's like the more, you know, like clarity is everything, or like uh, I forget the exact like quote for it, but basically the more detailed you can get, the more clear the path becomes. So true though. And it's hard though, like because I went to speak to a college class last year, and it was my first time. I was super nervous. But till I was using it on some of those kids, they're like, dude, you know, these are the things I'm interested in. Can you help? Blah blah blah. It's like, well, what do you want? Right. I want this. And you ask a few more questions. It's like, I can't help you until you can answer these like five other questions. And I'm like, man, I wish somebody would have been telling me this stuff in college too.
SPEAKER_00Cause I didn't know. But then your desires and wants in life changed too. I mean, I think that's the that's kind of the other part of it. Um, anyways, I we we could go down that road for for hours, but I I do think about it often because of like the podcast and other things. And it's like, what do I really want here, like with the podcast? And I think more than anything, it's like a just it was a discovery. I wanted discovery, I wanted to learn different things. Yeah, I wanted somebody to challenge the way I thought about things, and I think I got that now. But it's like, okay, what does the next level look like? And you really do need to be very clear about like what you want for growth, for growth in the future. Speaking of growth and think of other things as well, you have multiple other avenues, um, podcasts. You can talk about those for a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, make it to midnight, which is what the reason that we got connected, also, is podcasts that the idea started back in when I was living in Florida, because like I said, I've had some very like hard weeks, months, days, uh, and very lonely. And so I was just talking to my dad on the phone one day as I'm walking on the beach and just like, man, I this does not feel like it's working. Like, I'm not making any money. I don't really have that many friends. And every one of my friends back in South Carolina has jobs. They're, you know, going out on the weekends, they're going back to football games, they're doing all these fun things. Like, this sucks. Like, I don't know if I can keep doing this. And uh, he just dropped a line on me. He's like, You just gotta make it to midnight every single day. So you never know what could happen in those next 24 hours, but you gotta make sure you show up for them. Yeah, or else, you know, we can guarantee nothing is gonna happen for you. Yep, and that just stuck in my head, and so that would have been in 2020, and now probably I guess it was 2025, yeah. Nah, maybe 2002, end of 2024 is when I finally started Make It to Midnight. And because I love like motivational speakers, I love big David Goggins guy. Yeah, I I had my David Goggins phase. I feel like everybody has a David Goggins phase. I we met David Goggins one time. Very cool, and it was uh exactly how I would hope it would be. You know, he told us to stay hard and like, yeah, dude, I will for sure. Carrying the boats. Yeah, like I'm actually gonna run back to Nashville for Law Service just to show you like that's awesome and vlog the whole thing. Yeah. Um, and uh, so I love all those things. I've I love quotes, I love different like small essays that people can write. All right, so let me just like start this page with the goal of like helping people make it to midnight through this inspirational, motivational content. Right. So I started out because my job has me very busy. Like I'll just find clips that I like in the beginning of the video, I'll share why I like it, and then enjoy this clip. And then I knew that I would want to grow it into a podcast where I'm sitting down with people that have stories that could that I believe could help people make it to midnight, whether it's educational, motivational, anything. Everybody has something that you know they can give to someone else. And uh so then this year is when I first do started doing my first interviews and starting to get some more long-form content out there, and similar to you, like I also just want to connect with more people and learn from people. Right. Because that's my the number one goal I'm trying to do every single day is learn something. And having a podcast is it's like for whatever reason, it's kind of easier to get somebody, a stranger, to come onto your podcast than it is to like, hey, let's go get coffee.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, you have a they have a reason to like then meet and they're like, wow, this is valuable, this is cool. I love what you're doing. Yeah. Versus let's just grab coffee, but for what what are we what's the point of grabbing grabbing coffee? Just to pick my brain. Yeah. So can I pick your brain over a podcast? And they're like, oh, sure. Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And uh, so yeah, that's my goal there. And I think, especially now with how many kids, like, you know, anxiety rates are through the roof, depression rates, suicide rates, all of these things are just rising. Yeah, and it's all from the cell phone. And so everybody's on their phone, they're all doom scrolling. And if I can make something that can stop a doom scroll and you know, shift whatever is happening in their brain to something positive, that's like my number one goal of it. And uh it's been cool, like, you know, obviously still very much in the growth phases, but we're starting to get some momentum on some guests being interested. Uh, and then, you know, just those random messages that you get one off that like just keep you going enough. And uh, so that's been awesome. And that's my passion project. That's if you were to ask me, like, where where do you hope you are in 10 years? It's like, I hope I'm doing make it to midnight full time, and we're telling stories and you know, recording stories that are changing a whole lot of people's lives. Because there's so many the podcast game, everybody's doing it, but it's still like there's still so much meat left on the bone that people don't realize. It's infancy, just everybody's doing it, but not every but very few people are doing it well. Yeah, and you know, now you got guys doing podcasts that are premiering in like movie theaters, yeah, and it's like that's still just scratching the surface. Right. And uh, so I have some ideas that I'm looking forward to. Hopefully, if I get the time, then to carry those out. So that's my make it to midnight goals. Um, and then my other one, Pat like just a fun one, the slice. I do a tennis podcast. Tennis is really what got me my first work with professional athletes. My guy Dennis Shapovalov, he was 19 years old at the time, top 20 player in the world, and he was training at IMG. And I went out there, like, hey, you mind if I take some photos, videos of you, I can send it to you? He's like, bro, I never have any content. Like, I would be awesome. So we grew a friendship, and that's also where I realized the opportunity. I'm like, this guy is top 20 in the world in a sport that's global popularity is insane. What does that mean for everybody else? Right. And so I host a tennis podcast. We just kind of cover what's going on on the tour. But I would love to pour more into tennis too because those guys are missing out on a lot of money. Sports fans, they used to love tennis in the 70s and 80s, now they don't. And have they transitioned to pickleball now? Dude, I saw you were grinding pickleball last night.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I like pickleball. I mean, it's it's it's it's fun recreationally. Fun recreationally. It's so much fun recreationally.
SPEAKER_02They uh I played pickleball with Jack Sock one time. Nice. And that was I was pretty nervous for that. How did that go? I was on his team, so we won, but the matches got a little tight, and I started to feel a little bit like I know I'm the one, like they're they're starting to aim at me and they're trying to come back right now. So that wasn't fun. Yeah, but cool experience. Yeah, uh, but yeah, bro. Tennis, the the stories how you can storytell and package content is will like determine so much popularity, and tennis players are behind on it. They're the only sport that you don't really see guys with podcasts or like full-on social media presences. You just see like Carlos Alcaraz doing something cool, and he's the man, but like they're more the marketing of the athlete is just not where it needs to be.
SPEAKER_00I've thought about this a lot with like the marketing of like long distance runners, especially. Um, but we had we went to Leadville, the Leadville 50 last year. The guy that won it, he ran like a 714, 715 pace for the 50 miler, up and down. I mean, at a 10,000 to 12,000 elevation the entire time. And that guy like is not known at all. Like he and he wins, these guys come out and they win these things, and you know, it kind of applies to all sports, but they win these things. There's just not any like there's no PR for that individual. Um, not that there has to be, but I've always found it incredible that the guys that are you know they're finishing them, but they're not necessarily winning them tend to be the guys with a much bigger online presence. Right. And you're like, it's it's how do you find those guys though to like train you and support you and work with you that are literally winning these things but have zero online presence? And it's it's just been mind-boggling to me that they still don't have any kind of online presence when you know how much they could capitalize on it, but they're just doing it for the love of the game, right? Andor the love of whatever it is that they're doing. That for me has been cool, but also kind of humbling too. Yeah, you're like, okay, I don't know that I'll ever I will never be at that level. Um, it's also like a 21, 22-year-old kid that it just has an incredible VO2 max, probably like 70, 80 right now. But I I find that to be kind of wild too. It's like, are we is the goal here to market myself, or is the goal and it depends on the person, or is the goal to compete and be the best version of myself? Because I feel like nowadays, more than anything, it's like, are we marketing ourselves to become a better version of ourselves? Or are we marketing ourselves because we maybe feel like we're missing something? Yeah. When the guys that are winning are the guys that sometimes have zero online presence, like what has he done to get into the right mental state to be able to compete at that level and not give a flying F who sees him online? That's what that's I'm like, how do I get there? That's that's like ego death to to a to a different degree, right? And once again, I we're we're in the media space, like we're not gonna get there. It's it's it's just different. Yeah, but I also think about that from a personal perspective of like, how do I get to that mental state of not caring at all and just doing it for the love of the game?
SPEAKER_02I know one of my favorite little phrases in the creative world is like, document, don't create. And I feel like that's where those top athletes could benefit from is like you don't have to put on this, like your brand doesn't have to be this like cultivated thing. Right. You just literally need somebody following you around and like leave it at that, keep your distance. Yep. That's how those guys can make it, but it is it's fascinating. It's like if that guy wasn't how he is, like would he be the number one runner? And uh I don't know. It's it's just crazy. Like could you even could you name a male American tennis player right now?
SPEAKER_00I mean I could name a maybe a two or three but like I not know. I mean like I'm not a I'm not a tennis guy. But even think like who are the two or three that you know um so like American guys would be like friends of mine that like I played in high school like I I couldn't even name like a professional tennis player right now. Exactly. I could name I could name guys that I like grew up with that I knew that played tennis that still play but they're not professionals. But it's like you don't know the number one male tennis player right now I'm also you're speaking to like the guy that does not watch like yeah I don't watch any sports right now. Like I am just like completely disconnected from sports altogether. So I won't act like I do know. But I think of like guys from high school but thinking about like American tennis players I do have a couple friends though that it's it's wild how much they know about sports. Yeah. And whenever you ask them they're like oh like a damn 50 right off the top of my head I'm like right I just don't pay attention to so to your point though they need better marketing.
SPEAKER_02Because he it's like it's nuts to me that the number one American male tennis player which is who Taylor Fritz okay or actually sorry Ben Shelton. Okay. They kind of flip-flop okay but it's like that sport is the the global popularity is crazy that like he has a bunch of followers but in the US they just don't and he actually does a good job with his media but if he dates uh Dennis Rodman's daughter who Trinity Rodman she does she doesn't have a good relationship with Dennis okay rightfully so probably but it's just yeah it's it's wild he's a neglected character.
SPEAKER_00Yeah he he gets into North Korea yeah oh I don't know if I um you probably didn't watch any of these but I had a I have a girl that's now come on the podcast twice who um takes tourists into North Korea Afghanistan Syria and uh Afghanistan and she lives in she's from the UK but she lives in Taiwan and adventure tourism is her job. Wow and so she leads people on these tours into these different countries and I'm like that's nuts to me.
SPEAKER_02What a scary job.
SPEAKER_00Dennis Robin would love her. Yeah for sure let's go hang out.
SPEAKER_02I know I only know one person that's been there and he's traveled he's actually traveled to every country in the world. That's sick. I actually I'm not super close with him but we can test the strength of weak ties to see if he'll come on your show.
SPEAKER_00That is that is so cool. I'm gonna start using that though it's so true though that the weak ties are the ones that tend to connect you because they don't think about all the past experiences with you. They're just like oh cool stuff he's doing I'm sure this would be a value to this person. Let's connect them exactly it's just like it's easier that way.
SPEAKER_02Dude I know and even when I had a similar thing where I was able to connect this guy that one of my friends from college knows that's a videographer I wasn't able to go to a tennis tournament but my dentist he needed somebody to do content let me ask around right so I ask a guy that I'm not even that close with but we went to college together and I know he's like a high achiever right hey do you have anybody for this he sends us in a group text because I always like I'm always a little bit too wordy when we I get linked in the group chat he says hey JP I got Yazim in the group chat both sides have more context I'll leave y'all to it love it. And I'm like that's the perfect introduction message. Brand Turp he's out of it he did his job connected us me and this dude we hit it off and then we connect and it's like and he's also not looking for anything at the moment.
SPEAKER_00I think that's the biggest thing too you have to disconnect from like a desire or like a want or a need and be like listen I'm just connecting because I see value here and I think this is going to be valuable to these guys to or and gals to connect um but if you disconnect from like needing something from every single situation it's almost like when the when you know the universe starts to get back to you to a certain degree. Exactly um and say hey how can I literally help you or how can I connect you I don't necessarily need anything out of it right now. Hopefully it good karma does come back. Right um but you've now that particular individual that connected you you've now put him up on a high pedestal you're like this guy's this is so cool. Exactly and so when you need something in the future or he needs something in the future you're probably the first to be like I got you I know exactly to connect you to exactly so it is it's it's just fascinating.
SPEAKER_02And just the connections from school that like end up being the ones that help you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I'm like absolutely I do appreciate the one off messages from random people who are like dude this is so sick like yeah and you're like why some days I think to myself why am I doing the podcast or why am I doing any of this and I'm like what's the point of any literally any of this and you do you get a random message from somebody you're like that's why right and that's when kind of back to the uh like of the authenticity how old like I think we're in such a massive AI bubble right now where like AI is everything.
SPEAKER_02It's making things easier it's making people a lot of money but it's also being shoved down our throats on like every article that's written every tweet you see you know it's here's how you can make $10,000 a month using AI like follow this thread and ultimately like I like to believe and maybe I'm so far off on it but I've got to believe that people when this is when the bubble pops they're gonna be yearning for the human connection even more. And the more that you're able to build that connection during the AI like period the better off you're gonna be like once it does pop. And that's why I even try like I'll use AI a little bit on some of my clips or like maybe to help me with my titling I try to make a point of it of like dude you got to do this because at the end of the day like it's gonna push through the the BS and a lot of it is BS right now. But it sucks because I'm sitting there and it's taking me way longer than it should. And I'm trying to balance like all right like how do we optimize like but I I see all these images of the brain when people are using AI and how there's just zero activity going on and I'm like that scares me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah this is this is this is necessary like this has to keep happening and I think subconsciously another reason I'm doing this is because I I see the same thing happening and I've been using AI a lot for like everything. Right. And I'm like I get into this weird kind of like doom scrolling you know thing where it's like the same thing with AI. You start using too much AI and you're kind of like doom scrolling with AI. Right. And you're like what is going on? Like I we thrive on human connection. We are human at least I think we're still human to a certain degree um but what happens when that becomes like our everything we're going to uh rely on these human interactions we're gonna rely on more like concert venues and in-person activities right um and yes obviously this is to produce online content but it's also it should be done to say hey it's it's a good idea to go get around friends and like go have conversations with people do a little you know scrolling watch a podcast from time to time whatever but go get in front of people and go make those human connections because that's where all your values are going to be at at the end of the day. And I also think the hauntivirus now and uh and AI and wars and everything else that's going on which I I let consume me like it's all consuming. Yeah and I have to completely back away and realize at the end of the day the only reason we do this is for these kinds of conversations and interactions. Right. Which are most important.
SPEAKER_02Oh man people are that's why I think podcasts are still just in the earliest phases because people are getting worse and worse at talking to each other. Yep. So it's a rare skill and for the history of time the people with the rare skills always like rise up.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely so cool. Anything else you want to add as a at the kind of the concluding part of this episode anything you know fun you want to add in there or shout outs etc plugs bust with the boys plugs podcast plugs yeah follow bus and WTB yeah uh we just got to 700k subscribers on YouTube.
SPEAKER_02Wild so maybe we push to a million uh and then for sure follow make it to midnight my passion project hopefully that'll be the one that we could change change the world with change some lives with and yeah of course shout out to game cognation always but I appreciate you having me on dude it's it's been cool cool to get to know you yeah good getting to know you too uh really appreciate it and uh looking forward to seeing all the wonderful things that come out of the podcast and yeah everything else you have going on. Boom appreciate it bro