Chat out of Hell

Episode 2.5 - Rock & Roll Dreams Come Through | Couldn't Have Said it Better

• Emma Crossland & Sam Wilkinson • Season 2 • Episode 5

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Sexy saxophones, stirring songs and pseudo-Steinmans! It's Chat out of Hell!

This episode we answer the key questions:

- Where did Rory Dodd get his moustache ideas?

- Where does Meat Loaf get his coats from?

- What Tripadvisor rating did Beefsteak Charlie's get?

PLUS all the usual blather, Emma gets in on the hashtag game (#pleasegiveemmaamichaelbaybudget), we accidentally create a podcast villain and we continue to plug our show at the Nottingham Comedy Festival (10th November, be there or be in the majority).

Next time! We close out series two with a warmup for the next Film Club, with Original Sin taking to the ring against Bad For Good.

Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com, find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Chat out of Hell and don't forget to use the hashtag #dearA1saucepleasesendsomeofyourA1saucetosamfromthereallygoodpodcastchatoutofhell or the much shorter one #pleasegiveemmaamichaelbaybudget

Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy.

Music extracts on this episode:
Rock & Roll Dreams Come Through by Jim Steinman from the album Bad for Good (1981)
Rock & Roll Dreams Come Through by Meat Loaf from the album Bat out of Hell 2: Back into Hell (1993)
Couldn't Have Said it Better by Meat Loaf from the album Couldn't Have Said it Better (2003)

Send us a text

Emma:

What is this?

Sam:

This is Chat Out of Hell, the UK's most downloaded fortnightly podcast about the works of Meat Loaf and his best pal Jim Steinman. Now guaranteed to contain as much truth as anything Jim Steinman says. Who is Meat Loaf?

Emma:

Meat Loaf is the undoubted star of the definitely not at all shit sci fi horror show, Ghost Wars. Currently available on Netflix. I've watched it, so you should have to as well. Who's Jim Steinman?

Sam:

I don't care Tell me more about Ghost Wars

Emma:

It's so bad, but it's good. It's good bad. It's very serious. And I giggled all the way through it.

Sam:

Well, To answer your original question, Jim Steinman is some guy who got into college by lying about writing an opera based on a James Joyce novel. Because of course he

Emma:

he did. Who are we?

Sam:

I'm Sam Wilkinson and you're Emma Crossand and we are stand up comedians, glasses wearers and fans of Banana Man, the spin off cartoon from the Beano.

Emma:

Welcome to Chat Out of Hell.

Sam:

Bow dow dow dow. I was worried you weren't joining in that time.

Emma:

No, I'm joining in. So we're recording this on the 1st of October. Last Friday, the 27th of September, would have been Meat Loaf's 77th birthday. yeah, there's that. that. Do you

Sam:

There is that. Do you know what would have been better? What? If you'd told me that for the episode that we recorded before last Friday.

Emma:

I only know about that because I've been browsing through the Meat Loaf Facebook page this evening.

Sam:

Oh, the loaf

Emma:

the loaf archives. yeah.

Sam:

Happy retroactive birthday Meat

Emma:

What did you do to celebrate?

Sam:

Last Thursday was it? Friday. Oh, last Friday. Oh, actually last Friday I drove to a house in the Midlands to spend a weekend playing board games with 20 other massive nerds. It's exactly what he would have wanted.

Emma:

Yeah. I got drunk in a bar with a friend.

Sam:

He would have liked

Emma:

that I think he would have liked

Sam:

that. Wonderful. So this podcast, the way it works, we both bring a Meat Loaf and or Jim Steinman song to the table every two weeks. We do. We watch the video, we listen to the song, we chat shit about it, and then we rate it on our patented song rating scales. So what have you brought this time?

Emma:

I have brought a song from the album Couldn't Have Said It Better and I've brought the title track, Couldn't Have Said It Better, and I think I could have said that better.

Sam:

I was about to make the very same joke. But it's crueler if I do it, so well done you. Thanks! And I've And I've brought Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through, which is from the Meat Loaf album Bat Out of Hell 2, and Jim Steinman's solo album Bad For Good. So listeners, go away, get on YouTube, Spotify, wherever you find your music. 8 track, God, I've got to get one more in before the end of the

Emma:

series.

Sam:

Go find those two

Emma:

you done Minidisc yet?

Sam:

Oh, that's good. Thank you. Find those two songs wherever you get your music from. Start with Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through. Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman have both recorded versions of this song. You don't have to listen to them both, they're functionally identical except one has better production values. The Meat Loaf one has a crazy music video, as they often do, so if you want to look at something stupid, watch that. Oh, and the Jim Steinman one also has a much cheaper, crazier music video, so pick one to go to listen to. We're going to start with Jim Steinman, and then we're going to punish ourselves and listen to Meat Loaf afterwards. See you all in a few minutes.

Laptop:

Think of how we'd lay down together We'd be listening to the radio so loud and so strong Every golden nugget coming like a gift of the gods Someone must have blessed us when he gave us those songs

Sam:

We've just listened to Jim Steinman's version of Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through. I know you want to talk about the video. We do have to talk about the song first. This was from the 1981 album Bad For Good, which as previously established Was his solo album that he did when Meat Loaf's voice was all fucked up in This version went to number 52 in the uk. It was released as a single. Okay. 52 in the uk, number 32 in the us, and number six in New Zealand. Ooh. Yeah. Which was 33 places higher than Scatman(Ski-Ba-Bop-Ba-Dop-Bop)

Emma:

ah, John. Getting in early.

Sam:

It's from Bad For Good album, but it wasn't originally on the album disc. The album was packaged with a 7 inch single, which had this on it, and the instrumental The Storm. So The Storm was supposed to be the prelude to the album. Yeah. So you'd play the Storm, then swap the LP in, listen to the album, then you'd swap it back out to listen to this as the epilogue. Yeah, I think that's why my CD just has it in the middle

Emma:

quite

Sam:

it's quite a nice song, I like it.

Emma:

Yeah, it's a brilliant song. It's a good song. my first encounter with it was on Bat Out of Hell 2, And we will come to that version good time, I'm sure. It's a little bit daft but there's a nice sentiment I think

Sam:

Yeah, so this, this one is the song of a young man being like, yeah, rock and roll, it's gonna get me through. And then when Meat Loaf sings it later on, he's A middle aged man lecturing the kids on why they need some more rock and roll in

Emma:

in

Sam:

Yeah. Yeah. There's a sort of weirdly tinny piano on it. It's a bit honky tonk. Yeah. There's a very sexy sax solo in the

Emma:

the middle. A saxy

Sam:

Sax y solo. Do you remember Garth Marenghi's Darkplace? In the last episode of that, they break into song for no apparent reason. Garth Marenghi plays the sax in almost exactly the same way in a little solo at the end. was inspired? I hope so, because pretty much the

Emma:

the same Yes, yes,

Sam:

So I've described this as a Jim Steinman song. Of is it It isn't, no. This is one of three songs on the album that aren't actually sung by Jim, but by Rory Dodd instead. the liner notes don't even credit Rory for this song. Well, we'll get on to that, because yeah, poor Rory. you can tell this isn't a Jim Steinman song, because the singing's alright.

Emma:

Yeah, it's no Meat Loaf.

Sam:

no meat loaf

Emma:

it's

Sam:

No

Emma:

tombstone.

Sam:

Steinman. Steinman. Lord bless him. He tries his best as a performer. But It's

Emma:

He's an awkward bugger, isn't he?

Sam:

it? Awkward is exactly the right term, yeah. This is his only top 40 hit as an artist. Aww. Which must really sting that he didn't even sing on it. So let's learn about Rory Dodd. Okay. The Salieri to Meat Loaf's Mozart. That's the angle I wanted to go in with. But I've not seen Amadeus. I've seen the episode of The Simpsons where they parody Amadeus. Have you seen Amadeus? Of

Emma:

I haven't!

Sam:

haven't! Okay. My understanding is that in that, Salieri is portrayed as like really jealous and envious of Mozart's success and wanting him to fail. And less talented. But if we apply the Amadeus thinking to this, I think Meat Loaf is actually the Salieri to Rory Dodd's Mozart.

Emma:

Do you?

Sam:

Rory Dodd is a lovely man.

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

Meat Loaf, as we know. Bit of a cock! Rory Dodd some of our listeners will know this, because we've attracted some Steinman Mega fans to our lovely podcast. Some of them just listen for the sound of us blathering on at each other. is wonderful

Emma:

I like

Sam:

all for listening. Rory Dodd sang backing on Bat Out of Hell when Meat Loaf and Steinman had their break up in the early 80s. He went with Dad. He went with Dad.

Emma:

Dad. He went with Dad. Jim

Sam:

Steinman took him with him. He's performed on almost everything Steinman's

Emma:

worked on since. What I like is in that analogy, Meat Loaf is Mum.

Sam:

Oh absolutely,

Emma:

Oh

Sam:

Meat Loaf's mum. Rory performed on both albums with Bonnie Tyler, he performed with Air Supply, Streets of Fire. Pandora's Box, Celine Dion, Rory was there for all of it. At one moment he was singing on the number one, number two and number three singles all at the same time.

Emma:

a delightful

Sam:

Yeah. Well done. So he had Total Eclipse of the Heart at number one. Making Love out of Nothing At All at number two, and he sang on Tell Her About It by Billy Joel. Wow. Yeah! I've watched a few videos of him, I've really fallen for this guy. He's this, he's very quiet, well spoken, kind Canadian man. And he looks like this perfect cross between the cowboy in Big Lebowski and Earl in My Name Is Earl. Do

Emma:

I want to see a picture!

Sam:

There he is.

Emma:

Aww. Yeah that's a good description.

Sam:

exactly him. He's done a few interviews and stuff. He's very willing to talk about the stuff he's done. Because he's sung with everybody. He did a couple of solo albums, but he's not really known for that. He's just this incredible session singer that everybody wants. He sang for James Taylor and Carly Simon. while they were in the middle of a divorce on the same day. That's how

Emma:

That's how in demand

Sam:

he was.

Emma:

You can picture the arguments

Sam:

James Taylor called up and asked for him 12 o'clock, and he was like, yeah, brilliant, I'm gonna sit with James Taylor. And then a few hours later, Carly Simon's manager calls up and says, Can we get you at 12 o'clock on Thursday? And he says, No, can you do six? And they said yes! It's amazing! His story starts in a Canadian touring production of a musical stage show called Rockabye Hamlet.

Emma:

Okay!

Sam:

Which, as you might imagine, it's a cool rock musical version of Hamlet. That transfers to Broadway in 1976 Rory Dodd is playing the part of Horatio, who is Hamlet's best friend. When he arrives at Broadway, he's chatting to the writer, and the writer says,"There's all these people here, there's a guy called Meat Loaf." And I'm like,"Huh, that's interesting". And they meet, and neither of them are interested in doing the press junket that they're supposed to be doing. So they skive off to a restaurant called Beefsteak Charlie's.

Emma:

Oh, hello!

Sam:

Yeah, Beefsteak Charlies. Sounds amazing. while they're there, Meat Loaf starts singing Wake Up Little Susie by the Everly Brothers. And Rory Dodd harmonises higher than him. And Meat Loaf says,'Nobody sings higher than me! You've gotta meet Jimmy! I think this is the first appearance on the pod of Meat Loaf calling Jim Steinman Jimmy. He He calls him Jimmy. I find it adorable, Jimmy. So yeah, he takes Rory off to go meet Jimmy. Meanwhile, Rockabye Hamlet closes after seven performances. Maybe they should have done that press junket, I don't know. The show was briefly revived under the name Something Rockin in the State of Denmark, which, much better, Much better title. But yeah, Rory is in on the Bat Out of Hell crew from the off. It's him Ellen Foley, Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman, they're the ones going around to record labels trying to get the album picked up. He was the first person to hear the whole record, Meat Loaf Jimmy sang it to him in the rehearsal room with just the piano. And then if we skip ahead a little bit, Meat Loaf loses his voice at the end of that tour. He's, I believe this happened because I trust Rory with my life. I don't know if Meat Loaf knows that this happened, but according to Rory, they just faded Meat Loaf's vocals down and Rory was singing his lines from further back on the stage

Emma:

because

Sam:

his voice was so ruined.

Emma:

Oh god!

Sam:

"They called me Icehead because I'm Canadian. How original! Later they shortened it to Icy. Do you remember we had Bitton who was the Professor as part of the band, now we've got Icy as well. we've Yeah, we've got a really cool band going together here.

Emma:

So when we do our own Meat Loaf song,

Sam:

we

Emma:

do

Sam:

We need cool nicknames, yeah. Yeah, Talking about recording one of the albums for 12 hours we did this song and every time I had to sing, at 1. 30 in the morning, Roy Bitton said, I'm exhausted, but I think we can do another. And I said, you can go fuck yourself. Rory goes with Jim after the acrimonious breakup, and he does some of the lead vocals on this album. On this song, Jim put his vocals on. He wanted it to sound amazing. And it came out as best as he could, but then Jim lets Rory come in and sing this, and he did it in one take.

Emma:

it's just showing

Sam:

Yeah, this was recorded in the same year that Scatman John was doing vocals on the album Animal Sounds by Sam Phipps. FYI. Yeah. And now we get into some of the sad times for Rory. Rory says he and Jim were best friends in the 80s. I believe Rory thought Jim was his best

Emma:

But Jim didn't think that Rory was

Sam:

friend. Let's get into this. So Rory sang the male part on Total Eclipse of the heart. Yeah. Jim told him this was a duet and then the record comes out, his name's not on it anywhere.

Emma:

Oh God. What?!

Sam:

I didn't complain a lot because they had my immigration over my head. For me to stay, they had to do stuff for immigration.

Emma:

They've

Sam:

got his visa status over him. They're holding him hostage He can't really complain. He's going to have to go back to Canada if they don't keep covering his visa. So he's not in a position to complain about being utterly screwed over. He's really chill about it though. He's just yeah, bad shit happens and you can't hold on to that stuff. He's so cool and relaxed.

Emma:

I wish I could be like that.

Sam:

Yeah, me too. I would still be seething. He says people said I wish I had a penny or five cents every time we hear this on the radio. Well, So do I!

Emma:

Shit,

Sam:

I never made a penny on Eclipse. After all the ways I got screwed, he says, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. He's he's just really happy to be in the middle of all this cool stuff that's been going on. Rory is effectively Jim Steinman's voice from the 80s onwards all of the songs that he writes He gets Rory to demo first and there's some really good youtube of Rory kind of testing stuff out for him. But he just sort of exists in the background unlike Meat Loaf The scene stealing bellend. He's just a nice guy, he kind of shrugs and smiles and gets on with life. So we're, we're very pro Rory Dodd on this podcast.

Emma:

We are. I can get behind Rory

Sam:

So that's the Rory Dodd story. And now let's talk about the video that you've just watched.

Emma:

Oh, blimey.. The first thing that struck me about it I've thought this for a little while watching videos that particularly Steinman's been involved with. For as much sort of cool rock, God Behaviour that they both put forward, both Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman

Sam:

Steinman

Emma:

Whenever you watch any of the videos, they are just theatre nerds playing, aren't they?

Sam:

Absolutely.

Emma:

nothing cool about no. There's no. sort of, there's this sort of faux rebellion kind of vibe, but nah, it's just theatre kids mucking about.

Sam:

is.

Emma:

this video is,

Sam:

right? yes, Yeah.

Emma:

because we're

Sam:

that's who we are.

Emma:

theatre kids mucking

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

Oh, my lovely drama A level.

Sam:

Brecht. Anyway, So the video is, it's very cheap. It's on a, soundstage that's dressed up to look like the album cover of Bad For

Emma:

There's, There's definitely like a post apocalyptic vibe, which is very much in Jim Steinman's wheelhouse, isn't

Sam:

It features Jim stood perfectly still on a rock at the back of the stage, occasionally moving his arms up and down, lip syncing to Rory Dodd's vocals, while a shirtless male ballet dancer dancer Oh, we get

Emma:

to watch him take his shirt off.

Sam:

Oh, sorry, yes, you're right. man walks on, and then a woman appears, who's also skimpily dressed. The man takes off his shirt, and then we have three minutes of very weird ballet.

Emma:

But, Jim Steinman's holding onto the woman for a bit. He is.

Sam:

bit. He

Emma:

really awkward way.

Sam:

like, I think he's going for a sort Garden of Eden vibe. God. he is God. yeah. He introduces

Emma:

He uses Adam,

Sam:

who who prances around.

Emma:

And then

Sam:

then creates Eve and then gives them the guitar that represents the apple,

Emma:

is

Sam:

this is 100 percent Steinman. But by God, it's cheap.

Emma:

Oh, so cheap.

Sam:

There's a big polystyrene rock. Yeah. man just spins round and round holding. Jim's videos all involve people spinning round and round really fast.

Emma:

They're very dance heavy. Yeah. Theater nerds, they wanna put on a big musical. Let's put on a show!

Sam:

put on a show! That's the Jim Steinman version. Let's go straight on to the Meat Loaf version. number 11 in the UK, number 13 in the US, and number six in New Zealand, 33 places higher. Than ski-bop-ba-da-ba-bop by Scatman John. Three mentions for him this episode. Good, isn't it? So before I'd show you the video for the Meat Loaf version, we've got a quiz

Emma:

Ooh.

Sam:

Which of these things do not happen in this, Michael Michael Bay's second stupid bombastic video for Meat Loaf's Bat Out of Hell 2. A, Meat Loaf plays a culturally insensitive gypsy fortune teller who lives in a jukebox in an abandoned junkyard. Is it B Meat Loaf plays an abusive father whose behaviour causes his daughter to run away, but not forever? Or is it C, Angelina Jolie plays a teenage girl who defeats non specific baddies with her power of making jukeboxes explode?

Emma:

They all sound very plausible for both Meat Loaf and Michael Bay. I'm wondering, because the other single from this is Objects in the Rearview

Sam:

Yes, that's right, Michael Bay directed that video as well.

Emma:

Is it the running away one that's not

Sam:

Meat Loaf playing an abusive

Emma:

yeah, yeah. yeah.

Sam:

daughter to run away.

Emma:

Is that not in this?

Sam:

That is true, it's in this

Emma:

Is it in this one? one

Sam:

Yeah. Oh

Emma:

go on, which one is it then?

Sam:

So C, Angelina Jolie does play a teenage girl. She doesn't defeat non specific baddies with her power of making jukeboxes explode. That, again, is Meat Loaf.

Emma:

Wow.

Sam:

get ready for some excitement!

Emma:

I'm really looking forward to this.

Laptop:

beat is true. True. When you really need it the most, That's when rock'n'roll dreams come true. Once upon a time was a backbeat.

Emma:

That's just mental.

Sam:

All right, let's talk the video first for this one and then get on to the song. What have you just seen, Emma?

Emma:

I don't know some strange fever dream

Sam:

Do you want me to run through the synopsis that I've written for it? Yes, directed by Michael Bay, whose subtlety allergy has really started building up at this point. Angelina Jolie plays misunderstood kid who is bullied at school and shouted at by her dad, causing her to run away, exactly on the line, you can't run away forever, to a mysterious magical oil refinery

Emma:

slash scrap ass Yeah.

Sam:

She finds a weird jukebox which for some reason has Meat Loaf's singing head in it. The jukebox immediately explodes because baddies are coming up to attack Angelina Jolie. Meat Loaf plays Angelina's abusive dad and the new father figure she finds in a magical scrapyard. A sort of culturally awful, very insensitive, gypsy fortune teller. Like in big. It's that vibe, right? he's not as heavily made up as in the I'd do anything for love video. But he's made up to look, a bit weird and wooden looking.

Emma:

Yeah, it's culturally

Sam:

Well, Dodge. The pair become a sort of Batman and Robin, travelling the city on a motorbike and sidecar, saving abused and or endangered kids with exploding jukeboxes. The sexy women from the I Do Anything For Love video have a brief appearance which feels completely inappropriate in a story of teen liberation. Rock and roll saves everyone, and at the end, Angelina returns to her dad, who is fine now.

Emma:

Fine now? Sorry about that, love. Fine

Sam:

now? Yeah. I'll give Meat Loaf and Michael Bay, The Benefit of the Doubt on the dad. He's shown shouting, he could just be a bit grumpy in that particular bit There's no established pattern of behaviour there. We're not meant to be sure whether he's just having a bad day, or if he's a genuine threat to his

Emma:

Yeah. She might be a nightmare!

Sam:

LAUGHS

Emma:

hashtag believe women, obviously, but, as teenagers. We were all nightmares.

Sam:

teenagers are pricks. Yeah, very weird video. expect. Very, very literal interpretation of the brief, as you'd expect from that director. Meat Loaf's take on the song I do think it's a kind of listen kids, it'll all be fine, rock and roll saves everybody, it saved me vibe.

Emma:

Yeah but then you get to like the, I treasure your

Sam:

your love. Exactly, or even worse than that, in that video he's singing to a teenage runaway, think of how we'd lay down

Emma:

Yep

Sam:

I treasure your love, I never want to lose it. It's I

Emma:

want to show you how to use it.

Sam:

Big time ick factor.

Emma:

With that video, big time ick

Sam:

the song, on its own Isn't as icky as Michael Bay has

Emma:

feel like

Sam:

The sax solo version, sexy on Jim Steinman's, a dangerous dark city on Meat

Emma:

I do like that.

Sam:

that. yes.

Emma:

I like a dangerous dark

Sam:

Next time I'm gonna bring a song about Meat Loaf as villain in a dangerous dark city. little build up to that. at the end of the show, per the format.

Emma:

Fine.

Sam:

Ah. You're never alone because you can put on the phones and let the drummer tell your heart what to do. I like that sentiment and I think it's really cool and fun. Yeah. But you asked me if I was all right during the song because I was checking my pulse. Yeah. I was trying to work out what it would feel like to have your heart beat in 4 4 time. And I think that's actually much too slow. My pulse is currently faster than that.

Emma:

that. Okay,

Sam:

or maybe it's gone off a bit. Anyway, look, if there are any medical professionals listening who want to tell me off for my pulse being too fast or too slow, get fucked. I'm rock and roll, man.

Emma:

Yes, good. Did you do like a line of coke before you got here tonight?

Sam:

tonight? Yeah, or

Emma:

in the car?

Sam:

yorkshire Tea

Emma:

able to The

Sam:

Blend. Hashtag Dear Yorkshire Tea Bedtime Blend, please send Sam something,

Emma:

Yorkshire Tea

Sam:

know that. The b side to this single was an acoustic version of I'd Do Anything For Love.

Emma:

Ooh.

Sam:

That's sort of the noise I made, yeah. I was thinking, I'd quite to hear that. Oh, for seven minutes though. Bit much. I would quite like to hear that if anybody, I'm sure I could find it on the internet.

Emma:

I imagine so.

Sam:

it's got all sorts of shit on it, hasn't it?

Emma:

Internet? Oh, it's full of stuff, You should

Sam:

You should buy it! The people of the internet have opinions on this song. Nathan111ism, When my life got flushed down the toilet and I ran, Just as I left, my wife said, You can't run forever. I paused. This song came to mind. I replied, There's no harm in getting a good head start. left and closed the door. Three years now, still haven't caught up yet.

Emma:

caught on to

Sam:

Nathan, you're either an arsehole or you're safe now. I'm not sure which one. I'm out. But well

Emma:

done. Well done.

Sam:

you. And with that,

Emma:

let's

Sam:

rate this song. This is a Jim Steinman song. As always, we'll be using our patented Jim Steinman rating scale, which from Jim Steinman at the top for his finest songs, Jim Fineman for his most middling of works, and Jim Declineman for the shite that he wrote. But what is this?

Emma:

What is this,

Sam:

think I, I know And I realised what it was as we were listening to the Meat Loaf version. Both versions are very similar, they're similar arrangements, just one is much better produced. Yes. And it absolutely whips. I think it's a Jim Steinman.

Emma:

I'm with you. I was considering a Jim Fineman.

Sam:

It's the lower tier of the Jim Steinmans, but it's still a Jim Steinman.

Emma:

It creates a world in

Sam:

creates a world. It's

Emma:

images. I'd like to say the world that it creates in my head isn't represented in either video. It's hard to describe what it creates in my head, but it's not that.

Sam:

I'll give you a Michael Bay budget, and we can find out what it is.

Emma:

Oh, please give me a Michael Bay budget.

Sam:

Please give me a Michael Bay budget! This is a Jim Steinman! That's an explosion, like in Michael Bay.

Emma:

I would like to introduce a hashtag at this point, please because, you've got several now,

Sam:

I've only got one? Oh, okay,

Emma:

you got two hashtag please give Emma a Michael Bay budget.

Sam:

Hashtag, please give Emma a Michael Bay budget. Not Emma from the really good podcast, Out of Hell. What Emma? Which Emma?

Emma:

Emma? I'd like it to actually get used, this one. not. Yours is too long,

Sam:

Cool. So Emma, what song have you brought today?

Emma:

I have brought song called Couldn't Have Said It Better, which is from the album Couldn't Have Said It Better. Let's watch the video.

Sam:

do the listeners have to watch the video or?

Emma:

They don't have to watch the video. They don't have to do anything. I'm not their mum. But I'd recommend watching the video just for context. It's not a terrible video. It's not an amazing video. But it is something that you can do with your eyes.

Sam:

We'll see you all in a few minutes.

Laptop:

I couldn't have said it better myself Tonight the conversation takes a fall Just love me like you love nobody else And I know you feel the same You've been

Emma:

So you've just listened to Couldn't Have Said It Better. Sam, what do you make of

Sam:

That's an absolute banger, Emma. That's more Steinman's than some of Steinman's stuff.

Emma:

Do you know who's written it? Would you like You've not read into it. That was written by a guy called James Michael and Nikki Sixx. Off of Mötley Crüe. Ha! Yep, Nikki Sixx gets heavily involved in Meat Loaf from this point onwards.

Sam:

Can I just correct your pronunciation? There are umlauts, it's pronounced Mötley Crüe. Ha

Emma:

Ha! I always forget about the umlauts. Ha! Mötley Crüe. Mötley Crüe! They've been introduced as Mötley Crüe before, haven't they? In countries that use the umlauts,

Sam:

yes.

Emma:

because they are just rock'n'roll umlauts, Mötley Crüe. James Michael is the lead singer of 6AM, which is one of Nikki Sixx's bands. He's worked on several Meat Loaf albums from this point onwards, as does Nikki Sixx. But he's also worked with Kelly Clarkson, Alanis Morissette, and Papa Roach!

Sam:

Okay, yeah, I was feeling all those vibes. Yep. So I had a listen to it a couple of times before we recorded. I'd not heard it before. My note says, This is so early aughts slash mid eighties blended together.

Emma:

First came across this when my parents bought me the album for Christmas. So it came out in 2003. So I think it must have been Christmas 2003. That is smack bang in the middle of my university years, when I am attempting to be cooler than this.

Sam:

Ha ha ha ha Ha! Emma! There is nothing cooler than this.

Emma:

I think the album has largely

Sam:

anything else good on it?

Emma:

I didn't listen to it very much when I first got it because, as I say, I was, I was too cool. I was an indie wanker and I don't think I came to listen to it properly until, God this is sad, until I'd finished university and I'd been broken up with by a boy

Sam:

Aww and music. Oh hang on, hang on, sorry, is this a Meat Loaf memory? Yes,

Emma:

Yes, I think it is. I've been broken up with by a boy and I needed some music to listen to that didn't make me think about him. I And so I needed to find in my collection of stuff, I needed to find something that just wasn't gonna trigger memories. so I dug this out because it was just the right level of emotion to help me process a breakup without actually making me think of him all the time. So I have a real soft spot for this album, but I will be honest with you, It's not the best.

Sam:

I do love that Meat Loaf is always there for you in moments of romantic crisis. We've heard about how teenage Emma was pining over boys listening to Meat Loaf,

Emma:

So

Sam:

then

Emma:

this is early 20s Emma

Sam:

Emma went back to Meat Loaf when boys had let her down.

Emma:

He's always been there for me, man.

Sam:

for you.

Emma:

Yeah, so I wouldn't cause I, I stopped paying attention to Meat Loaf's output after this album. And I suspect that his output was like, post me meeting the man that would become my husband. And so I didn't need meatloaf

Sam:

he decided to become God awful.

Emma:

It is a classic Meat Loaf duet. Mm-Hmm And he's singing there with Patti

Sam:

Okay, I wondered if it was

Emma:

Yes. She's the

Sam:

of Meat Loaf's regular female

Emma:

Yeah. She does loads of stuff on tour with him throughout the sort of nineties. I think from 93 onwards. She is his tour girl. She's got a belter of a voice.

Sam:

does. Yeah.

Emma:

She's toured with him loads but also she's got her own solo career. She's been the lead vocalist with symphonic rhapsody of queen. So she's done a lot of queen covers and things.

Sam:

Mm hmm.

Emma:

And I just think she's got an incredible voice and she Plays the other part in this really

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

It's lovely.

Sam:

I Do you know what? I really, so this is a song about how not speaking conveys so much. A lot of Meat Loaf's outputs would be like women don't have to say

Emma:

anything,

Sam:

so I'm not going to have a woman say anything here.

Emma:

But in this song, the woman's got a voice. And it could have gone the other way.

Sam:

have, that's exactly what I was trying to

Emma:

She's got a voice. She has agency. Hashtag

Sam:

feminist.

Emma:

Indeed. As feminist as this ever gets. me Oh. Yeah, as feminist as

Sam:

out what a good ally I

Emma:

Thanks, Sam. We really appreciate when's

Sam:

that medal coming

Emma:

It's in the post. There's not a lot about this song out there which I think is a shame because it's a classic Meat Loaf It is

Sam:

a really good belter.

Emma:

This was actually the second single from the album it got to number one in the UK rock charts. That's cheating. 31 singles charts. And it did reach the top 40 on the USAC charts, whatever they are.

Sam:

Where did it get to in New Zealand?

Emma:

No information is provided.

Sam:

don't believe

Emma:

I couldn't be bothered to find any more information.

Sam:

It does tick all the Steinman boxes. It's got a central cliche stretched to breaking point. Yes. It's got different musical styles awkwardly crammed

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

And it does have a bit of a three act structure to it.

Emma:

a duet, which is

Sam:

yeah. another,

Emma:

diamond. I

Sam:

I feel

Emma:

like, our Steinman song should have a duet.

Sam:

Yeah. Otherwise, one of us is getting away with something.

Emma:

Yeah. Oh shit. Yeah. I could have away with something.

Sam:

Sucks to be you!

Emma:

Had this been released on the Welcome to the Neighbourhood album, I think this song would have made more of an impact.

Sam:

Hmm.

Emma:

Cause that album still had the momentum

Sam:

it. From Bat Out of Hell 2., did this album do that well?

Emma:

In the UK album chart it's peak position was number four. So that's not bad. That's the highest it reached in any of these listed here. Oh, in New Zealand, the album reached number 17.

Sam:

Oh, it's a pity you're talking about the album because I've no idea how well Scatman John's

Emma:

well I'm doing. I just thought you'd like that. So yeah, not bad in the UK. I feel like the UK. Has always been

Sam:

prime audience. That's right, yeah. Ever since Bat Out of Hell. In fact, here's something I didn't talk about in my section. They took out an advert in the musical press, or the industry press, to say thank you specifically CBS, all those who attended our concerts, listened to our records, and made us feel great in Manchester and London. Thank you, it's people like you who make rock'n'roll dreams come

Emma:

Aww!

Sam:

Which is lovely, except they've done that thing of spelling through, T H R U

Emma:

thru?

Sam:

two extra letters. No it's not, it's three extra Sort yourself out.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

But yeah, and that's the first recorded use of that phrase.

Emma:

Is it?

Sam:

That I have been able to

Emma:

find. Yeah!

Sam:

Meat has always done much better in the UK than at home

Emma:

We just love Wagnerian

Sam:

We do love Wagnerian

Emma:

Dramatic idiots that we all

Sam:

It was the Old Grey Whistle Test. Do you know about this?

Emma:

I'm aware of what the Old

Sam:

Yeah, that was a, music show on the BBC. But the reason they did really well in the UK was they went and performed one of the singles whichever one I say it is, somebody will email me and say it wasn't that one. They performed one of the singles off Bat Out of Hell on the Old Grey Whistle Test. And then, Old Grey Whistle Test repeated it the following week. Because it was so good, people who were at the pub the last Friday deserved to see it again. Aww! Yeah! Isn't that cool?

Emma:

Oh, BBC.

Sam:

BBC.

Emma:

Ah, that is really cool.

Sam:

It's a good

Emma:

It's a fact, isn't it? I like

Sam:

that. Yeah. That's excellent. And like all facts, it's exactly as accurate as anything Jim said. I'm sure I've misremembered something.

Emma:

I have got a review that was written by Frood Jonsrud from the Metal Express Radio couldn't have said it better contains several songs written by Nikki six from Mötley Crüe And other songwriters and it's obvious that they're trying to copy Steinman both the song structures lyrical content and arrangements are sounding almost like Steinman But only almost. They lack that little twist that only Steinman can muster up. Would you agree with that?

Sam:

agree with that, but the way you've read it makes it sound like they intended it as a bad thing.

Emma:

Yeah, I think they intended it as a bad thing. I don't think this

Sam:

got

Emma:

good reviews.

Sam:

If you are a songwriter, Steinmania is the highest level that you can

Emma:

that you can I agree. If we look at the video, I think Meat Loaf's looking pretty

Sam:

look pretty good, doesn't he? Wow, and I

Emma:

like his coat. Let's go through the video because it's not an epic production but it does have production values, unlike Jim's.

Sam:

Michael Bay was not anywhere near this, but nor Jim

Emma:

Steinman no, I can tell you who was

Sam:

near this, actually,

Emma:

I've found the information, a guy called Nigel Dick,

Sam:

Hee hee hee hee hee hee hee Hee. Nigel.

Emma:

was born in Catterick, so he's a Yorkshire lad. And some of the other videos that he has directed, Band Aid, do they know it's Christmas? Apparently. And then something for S Club. A track called Seeing Double.

Sam:

No, I don't know it.

Emma:

I don't know that. Nickelback, Those Days. So yeah, he's a music video director and is evidently still going.

Sam:

crack. Still having

Emma:

having a crack innit. Live performance kind of video, but with some dramatic elements to it, I'd

Sam:

they're in a theatre.

Emma:

Yeah, all the musicians are on stage, but you can't really see them because of the clever lighting. So you can't really tell who they are, but they're not the important ones in this,

Sam:

it's Meat Loaf and Patti Russo. Yes.

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

a lovely sort of

Emma:

looks incredible. That dress is amazing. It's a really nice shade of blue.

Sam:

It's the same shade of blue as your hair.

Emma:

Yes. my hair is very rock and roll. There's a bit quite close to the beginning where Meat Loaf is sitting backwards on a chair looking like he's trying to be a cool supply teacher.

Sam:

Yes, Yes he does.

Emma:

then he flings the chair away as the song gets dramatic. As he tells us that he's going to guide us all the way. Oh yeah. I did write, presumably this is a sex thing because it's a Meat Loaf song. I assume he's once again going to guide us in the ways of the sexy

Sam:

It's not time for messages yet, but I will read out a message related to this. Do you remember couple of episodes ago, we talked about Everything Louder than everything else. RL Grey.

Emma:

Oh, lovely R. L. Gray. I'm enjoying R. L. Gray's

Sam:

comments on Yeah, RL Grey, regarding the weapons in Everything Louder Than Everything Else, Yes, of course they are penises. Every metaphor in a Jim Steinman song

Emma:

is exactly what

Sam:

you think and probably something

Emma:

be, and probably something LAUGHTER yep. And

Sam:

And Steinman imitator songs.

Emma:

guess this record doesn't have much love, Which I think is a bit of a shame

Sam:

it's a real banger. Yeah.

Emma:

yeah

Sam:

Sing along fun.

Emma:

we'll be good in the car

Sam:

Weird phrasing now and then. Overstretched a metaphor. This is a Jim Steinman! Wait, no! Is it time to rate or do we have anything else?

Emma:

I've got some quotes from the interweb.

Sam:

Of course, yes, we've not heard what the people of the internet think.

Emma:

Jesse Sinclair 4491 said,"Oh, how I love Meat Loaf's almost unrealistically epic songs. They get on the verge of silly or cheesy because they're just so good. I say this because in general, nowadays, not just in music, but in a lot, all one word, of aspects, people are just not as passionate on top of those whom speak English."Elaborate expression in decay. Seldom. Is it that you hear a man expressing feelings using English in the style of Prince, Meat Loaf, Barry White, Isaac Hayes, etc. And it's been a steady decline in English since long before all of them too, the English language was designed to be more direct, adaptable, and universal at the cost of emphasis."I believe this in turn to impact lyricists both content and delivery." And then Nelly Ringworm replies, What a load of fucking nonsense! ha ha ha! Ha ha ha

Sam:

nelly Ringworm, I really hope you're listening because, well done.

Emma:

and then I've got one here from Underture."Like many of Meat's songs, it sounds like a not so subtle reference for some extremely passionate lovemaking. When there's one thing two lovers want, brackets sex, the tension in the air can be so thick that mere words can totally ruin the moment. Tonight the conversation takes the fall. Can back this up as well as, I'll get the lights, you get that smile. I love Meat Loaf duets. His ladies always have such charged voices."

Sam:

There is something about Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman's refusal to stop singing about doing it that attracts people who want to take a very thinly veiled metaphor and pull that veil off even further.

Emma:

But that's what the people have got to say.

Sam:

Yeah, thanks the people. But what do we have to say, Emma? Let's rate this on our patented, trademarked, copyrighted, handcrafted, organic

Emma:

Ethically sourced.

Sam:

Is it?

Emma:

No.

Sam:

Meat Loaf song rating scale. Which starts at the top with Marvin Lee Aday. In the middle we go to Marvin Lee Okay. And for his awful sexist songs we have Marvin Lee No Way. But what's this?

Emma:

Oh, this is

Sam:

a Marvin

Emma:

Lee

Sam:

Aday.

Emma:

Day!

Sam:

Lee Aday! God that was so tuneless.

Emma:

We need to work on that if we're going to produce a rock opera

Sam:

ha ha ha! Shall we go to this week's messages?

Emma:

Are you going to dig into the mailbag?

Sam:

I'm going to dig into the mailbag. RL Grey has left a couple of comments. I will summarize a few bits of them. They've clearly been catching up."Dance in My Pants is a rough one. Started listening last week and looking forward to getting caught up so I can offer rejoinders and wildly angry corrections." Now that was before Anthony emailed us last time, so RL wasn't jumping on a bandwagon there. No. And I've not yet had a wildly angry correction from them, but looking forward to it when it does arrive. And then this is a really good one. So last time we talked a bit about Karla DeVito. Yeah. LAUGHS And her work outside of the Steinman I said her biggest hit was probably Is this a Cool World or What? Brackets. Or what?

Emma:

Um,

Sam:

But RL points out In the US, Karla DeVito is known a bit for contributing the song We Are Not Alone to the Breakfast Club

Emma:

Ah. Do you I've seen The Breakfast Club numerous times. I'll be honest with you, that song doesn't ring a bell. Because the one that I always get stuck in my head is the one that everybody

Sam:

does. Don't you forget about me. it's that scene where, they all lock the principal in a cupboard or something and start dancing on the desks. so yeah. It's where

Emma:

they bond or

Sam:

they bond. They all bond, or, yes, R. L. says, I don't know how well known the movies of John Hughes are in Blighty, but for many US Gen Xers, Breakfast Club was practically a holy text. I haven't seen it since I was exactly the kind of teenager who would find it really deep, so I don't know how well it holds up". Yeah, we are elder millennials rather than Gen Xers, so I think there's a bit of a divide there. Have

Emma:

have you seen the breakfast

Sam:

I have seen it. I saw it in my early 20s, I would guess, late at night. I saw it in my teens.

Emma:

at night.

Sam:

I think I was probably exactly the sort of teenager who would have found it really deep. Yep. Yeah. But yeah, not quite as big over here, I think, as it was in the US, but still fairly well

Emma:

I think it's the most well known of the John

Sam:

RL did give us some other comments on what Jim Steinman wanted Meat Loaf to be. And I'm going to gather those up and put them in the next episode, because they're on a theme that I want to discuss next time. Over to the emails We've got one email from Tim. Tim. Hello Tim. Hey guys, love the show, brackets, genuinely do. See, those brackets make me feel, why would you add the brackets? Do you know what I mean?

Emma:

Maybe he thinks that we get like loads of mail

Sam:

and, we get a lot of insincere people who write to him. But no, that's really nice of you, thank you genuinely nice that people who don't know us personally are listening to this codswallop. No! Tim says, Anthony sounds like a right laugh. I'm I'm having a party soon, would love for him to be there so you can pass on his deets that'd be swell." Now, I do have to be the grown up here and say we're not having Anthony be the villain of this

Emma:

Oh god no, that's not what this is

Sam:

to be about. No, but that was very funny, thank you, Tim. And if you do have some good bantz about Anthony What? No, shut up!"I'm also looking forward to the song you are making, so that's at least three people." People haven't forgotten Emma.

Emma:

Shit!"I have

Sam:

a nomination for a very random song for you to review. Los Angeloser."I hated it the first 12 times I heard it, then it grew on me, and now rather like it as something original. So interested to know what you would think, given it's different to anything he's done before. Or is it complete pants? You may need to listen many, many, many times. So there's something to look forward to." I've not heard Los Angeloser, or I remember

Emma:

from the album Hang Cool, Teddy Bear. Which is

Sam:

2010s album, isn't it? Okay, yeah.

Emma:

and I've heard very little from

Sam:

this. We've never delved into Hang Cool Teddy Bear.

Emma:

we've had a request so

Sam:

yeah, it needs to go into the rotation.

Emma:

yep

Sam:

Yep, so we're committed for the last episode of this series and then the first of series three, but Los Angeloser slotting in for episode two of series three. And we can argue about who has to cover it. I'm sure it'll be great. With a name like that, it's either going to be amazing or fucking awful, Yeah. So yeah, thank you, Tim, so much for writing in and really glad that people out there are enjoying this. It is

Emma:

lovely. Thanks Tim.

Sam:

So that is the end of this episode. Anything we want to say?

Emma:

Come to our shows in Nottingham?

Sam:

please do come to our shows. We are stand up comics, I nearly said in our day jobs, and that's a that's the funniest thing I've ever said We are stand up comics. We have a show at the Nottingham Comedy Festival on November the 10th So especially our new listeners if you do live near or in Nottingham and you wanted to come down see us That would be amazing

Emma:

Please please do

Sam:

you just want to share our posts on the old socials and try and

Emma:

Draw up

Sam:

drum up an audience. Drum up more of an audience. That would be fantastic. just search for Crossland and Wilkinson on Facebook where you can find out about our show, which is, it's a sort of induction into a weird evil Megacorporation.

Emma:

is. We're part cult, part

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

all weird.

Sam:

Both wankers. so please do come to that or tell people about it, that would be fantastic. We do have a website, crosslandandwilkinson. com. It is not up to date.

Emma:

But I'm sure it will be soon.

Sam:

Yes, it I think that's all the plugs. Do you want to plug anything?

Emma:

If you happen to be in Leeds, come down to Big Duck Energy, which is the comedy night that I run on the third Wednesday of every month the Bridge End Social. We are a female and non binary comedy night, but everybody's welcome in the audience and even if I it's fucking brilliant

Sam:

It is fucking brilliant so emma, what song are you going to bring next time?

Emma:

Next time I'm going to bring Bad For Good from Jim Steinman's album of the same name and also by Meat Loaf on Bat Out of Hell 3.

Sam:

You're really keen on bringing the title tracks of albums.

Emma:

It's just what keeps

Sam:

Yes, fair enough. And Next time is the final episode of series two, and then we're gonna go for a short break, but in the interim we will have another film club. So to tee us up for that film club, I'm going to bring the song Original

Emma:

Ah, ha.

Sam:

which Meat Loaf did on Welcome to the Neighbourhood. Jim Steinman did it with Pandora's

Emma:

He did.

Sam:

And Taylor Dayne sang it as the soundtrack to the movie The Shadow.

Emma:

Ooooooh.

Sam:

that's all gonna be really good, innit? It is! Good! As always, keep your general Meat Loaf thoughts and anecdotes flying in. Did you see Meat Loaf at the Keswick Pencil Museum, admiring one of the world's biggest colouring pencils? It's eight metres long and it's yellow. Let us know, chat out of hell at gmail. com. Keep sending in your Meat Loaf memories.

Emma:

Memories.

Sam:

And corrections to trivial things that we've got wrong. Or massive things that we've got wrong.

Emma:

Notice we've not got a jingle for the corrections yet.

Sam:

Nor will

Emma:

Ha ha ha!

Sam:

much for listening

Emma:

Yes, thank

Sam:

see you all again in two more weeks time for the last in this series of Chat Out of Hell. Bye everybody! Bye!