Chat out of Hell

SPECIAL FILM CLUB #2

• Emma Crossland & Sam Wilkinson • Season 2 • Episode 7

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Chat out of Hell's autumn break is almost over but there's just time to squeeze in a quick round of Film Club.

We dive into Meat Loaf's first big acting role in Fight Club, then just talk mostly about the admin involved in getting men to punch each other, then enjoy 90 minutes of Alec Baldwin pretending to be invisible in the Shadow. How exciting! Probably.

Chat out of Hell returns for series 3 on Monday 2nd December - be there or don't!

Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com

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Sam:

What is this?

Emma:

This is Chat Out of Hell Film Club, where we discuss films starring, or just loosely connected, to Meat Loaf and or Jim Steinman. Even though this is supposed to be our break from the regular podcast, we just can't resist setting ourselves more homework. If you've not heard any of the other episodes, then stop! This is a terrible place to begin. Start at episode one or something. Actually, maybe not episode

Sam:

one? No, we weren't in the swing of it by then.

Emma:

three? Yeah, three. Episode

Sam:

Go to episode three, and then go back to

Emma:

Yeah. Who is Meat Loaf?

Sam:

Meat Loaf was third on the call sheet for the movie Fight Club.

Emma:

Ooh.

Sam:

Or maybe he was fourth. It depends if women count.

Emma:

I suspect they don't.

Sam:

Who is Jim Steinman?

Emma:

Jim Steinman wrote a song called Original Sin and he liked it so much that he knew it had to be the soundtrack to a massive Hollywood blockbuster. And maybe one day it will be!

Sam:

be! ho ho Ho! I'm laughing like a twat, even though I wrote

Emma:

that thing. Who are we?

Sam:

We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crosland, stand up comedians and the two Sisyphuses determined to keep rolling the rock of critical analysis up a hill made out of Meat Loaf's face. And I'm watching it roll back down, every time. A hill made of Meat Loaf's face. You picturing that?

Emma:

We're

Sam:

we're climbing up it with our little

Emma:

rock? I don't like it. No, I don't like it.

Sam:

Welcome to Chat Out of Hell! FILM CLUB! Bow now, now, now!

Emma:

Ding

Sam:

Films.

Emma:

Oh, nice. Nice.

Sam:

Emma, so this is Film Club, right? We've just both had to watch two Entire films. Entire films and now we're going to talk about them. And the films that we've chosen are linked to the works of Meat Loaf and or Jim Steinman. Choice was the movie The Shadow, which came out in 1994, starring Alec Baldwin, which had a Jim Steinman song, Original Sin, as its theme tune. Theme tune didn't appear in the actual

Emma:

film, No. just in

Sam:

over the closing credits, like what used to happen in the 90s. What was your film?

Emma:

film was Fight Club, which stars Brad Pitt and that other one whose name has just escaped me.

Sam:

David Incredible Hulk.

Emma:

Ed Norton, isn't it? That's it, yeah. Edward Norton. And also stars Meat Loaf.

Sam:

Emma, tell us about Fight Club. What is it?

Emma:

A depressed man discovers that in order to sleep, he has to emote. Ha ha Ha! And the only way you can do that is while feeding off other people's misery and learning to cry a bit. He goes to loads of support groups for horrible illnesses and is cynical about it. Then a woman starts doing exactly the same as him and suddenly it's not all right. The girl, Marla, is a manic pixie nightmare

Sam:

I got that as well!

Emma:

Exactly the same

Sam:

I got manic pixie nightmare girl.

Emma:

Then the, it's unnamed protagonist, isn't

Sam:

it? Yeah, I just call him Edward Norton throughout my notes.

Emma:

I've been just calling him the man.

Sam:

The man?

Emma:

The man. Yeah, we'll

Sam:

Yeah, we'll call him The

Emma:

Man. The man meets another man, Tyler and they start a fight club after some conversation and shit. Eventually they fall out about the girl and also about the project to blow stuff up. There seems to be a lot of testosterone. The man discovers that he is Tyler. Sorry, spoilers there. And has been beating himself up and orchestrating everything from the beginning. The man needs therapy. But instead ends up blowing up a bunch of credit card company buildings after shooting himself in the face and getting rid of his imaginary friend and all the edgy boys wank themselves to death over how meaningful it all

Sam:

it all is. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe I

Emma:

I think that sums it up.

Sam:

The opening credit sequence is zooming around. I had to look this up afterwards. It zooms around his brain as the relevant hormones for fear are injected around his

Emma:

brain Of course it

Sam:

an exciting EDM dance song on the credit sequence which is, it's a bit like Scooter's cover of The Logical song.

Emma:

Oh God, here we go.

Sam:

or Scatman Ski Bop Bop Bada Bop by Scatman John but angrier.

Emma:

The whole thing feels achingly 90s a

Sam:

Oh, Let's go straight to Brad Pitt, who I call Brad Pitt throughout thing. He meets Brad Pitt on a plane, and Brad Pitt spouts some of the classic stoner conspiracy conspiracy shite heard all the time in sixth form, and I imagine he might keep that up all film. Edward Norton wants to be his friend because he is a fucking idiot. This is a man who smokes rollies and never does his share of the washing up because Fairy Liquid was invented by the man. He believes that every film and book in the history of mankind is full of drug references because he can't understand not being obsessed with drugs all the time. He owns one crusty pillow

Emma:

Ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha. Yes, Yes, I have been out with that man several times in my life. One crusty pillow and a torn bed sheet. Yep.

Sam:

Brad Pitt sounds like a character from a Coen Brothers film, except that character would be the local idiot who gets put in his place by some folksy wisdom from the local sheriff. He's a more self important Jeff Bridges from The Big Lebowski. The Pseud, if you will, and then I took the rest of the day off because,

Emma:

Very nice. Thank you. What I'm getting here is that neither of us particularly enjoyed this experience.

Sam:

No,

Emma:

I have to confess when I first saw this film back in Probably 99, I thought it was incredible and inspirational, but I was a naive child at that point and since then I've discovered things like, I dunno, female empowerment, And how toxic masculinity is ruining everything.

Sam:

Shall we quickly zoom in on that bit? Because this is a film that critiques masculinity.

Emma:

Supposedly.

Sam:

It's aim is definitely to critique toxic masculinity.

Emma:

Yeah I'll

Sam:

that. It's message, if there is one, is that men are really easy to turn to fascists because they are fucking twats. All of which is a nice message to try to put across. But if you meet a man whose favourite film is Fight

Emma:

Club It's not for those

Sam:

You should run

Emma:

away. Yes. In fact I wrote down here much has been written online about how this is a critique of fragile masculinity, but I fear it's probably been taken out of context, as so many of these things are. See Al Murray Pub landlord. What do you think to the misogyny in the film? fan.

Sam:

fan of the old misogy.

Emma:

Me either. There's one line in particular that really grates on me these days. And that's the line, we're a generation of men raised by women.

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

Fuck off.

Sam:

unlike every. man

Emma:

really hate that.

Sam:

But Brad Pitt's character is supposed to be a

Emma:

twat Yes.

Sam:

He's more of a twat than I think the filmmakers intended. And you are supposed to hear that line and think, fucking hell, what a bellend. bellend But again, there's so many bellends out there who don't think that.

Emma:

I think, in the current climate, where we're dealing with incel culture and the Andrew Tate, rhetoric. These sorts of films are genuinely a little bit scary now. Because there are so many men and boys falling for that. And that makes me sad and angry.

Sam:

So you mean to say that David Fincher didn't solve the problem back in 1999 with this

Emma:

film? No, if anything, it's exacerbated it.

Sam:

of exacerbated.

Emma:

That is just my opinion, and I am just a girl.

Sam:

That's true. Yes. And my notes on girls this goes back to the minute he sees Marla he's faking being ill at all these support groups so that he can do a cry, the fucked up manly bastard. He can't even do a cry without having to pretend he's dying. But oh no! Here comes Helena Bonham Carter and she's pulling the same scam. Her name is Marla and she lives in a world of slo mo shots because she's a girl and girls are trouble. Edward Norton gets sulky that she exists but also he fantasizes about her because girls are trouble.

Emma:

That's very much the attitude of the incel community.

Sam:

Bitches. After he confronts her about going to these support groups and faking it. and harshing his mellow, They decide to split the support groups between them. And while they're doing that, she steals some clothes from a laundrette

Emma:

Yes, Yes she does.

Sam:

shop. Why? Girls are bitches.

Emma:

It's to show just what a fucked up bitch she is. Yeah. As I say, manic, pixie, nightmare goth. Which is, Helena Bonham Carter's shtick.

Sam:

Yeah. She's done a lot of that. And an ape.

Emma:

And an ape, of course, yes, she was in.

Sam:

she did play a ape

Emma:

once. Yeah. That would be the crossover you'd like to see, wouldn't it? I'd

Sam:

I'd love it if the whole film was the same, but she was a ape.

Emma:

I'd love it if the whole film was the same, but everybody was Muppets except for Edward Norton. Club.

Sam:

Who would you get to play Tyler Durden

Emma:

Fozzie Bear.

Sam:

Okay, who's playing the Meat Loaf role?

Emma:

Oh Sweetums the monster. nice,

Sam:

good call. Obviously Miss Piggy is Helena

Emma:

Carter. Of course, She wouldn't have it any other

Sam:

way. No, that and who else could she play? Jared Leto?

Emma:

Gonzo? Maybe? Yeah.

Sam:

who's Kermit?

Emma:

I think Kermit might just have a minor role in this.

Sam:

this. My God. Yeah,

Emma:

I know that goes against

Sam:

Yeah, you've really undone the whole Muppet

Emma:

ethos here. Yeah, yeah, but I just, Kermit's so wholesome.

Sam:

Kermit doesn't fit any of the roles. Oh, is Kermit Edward Norton's boss? Because He's just a guy trying to get on

Emma:

job. Yeah, Yeah, and Edward Norton is being a

Sam:

coming to work being a

Emma:

a yeah, okay.

Sam:

I'm glad we've been able to

Emma:

cast

Sam:

Muppet

Emma:

Club Fight

Sam:

we did fall into a very serious hole

Emma:

we're a broad church here at Chats out of hell

Sam:

talk about the Fight Club?

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

The Fight Club originates because Brad Pitt says, Hit me in the face. And Edward Norton says, I don't want to hit you in the face. But then he insists. They have a fight and they enjoy it. And then they have another fight later on and some other men come over and are well up for getting in on a fight. Bloody hell, they say. Fights are so cool. And then Brad Pitt rides a bike around his horrible house, exactly like the twat you knew at

Emma:

sixth form. Yeah, we've all shared a house with that twat. If you haven't, then you might be that twat.

Sam:

get a cellar to do fights in, and then the rules of Fight Club come in. They're very admin

Emma:

heavy. Heh.

Sam:

I'd forgotten about how much admin there was in the rules of Fight Club. We all remember that the first two rules of Fight Club are the same because Brad Pitt's script had it at the bottom of the first page and then the top of the second

Emma:

page Um,

Sam:

But if you were a man who was up for some fighting, You don't need fight club. Can we just go fight outside and then Brad Pitt won't tell us off for wearing our shoes or whatever it was.

Emma:

Do you think you would like to join Fight Club? I

Sam:

I just want to feel something even if that something is pain.

Emma:

Have you ever thought about therapy, Jesus Christ.

Sam:

Therapy is for GIRLS and I am a man and I joined fight club. For men. very admin heavy, fight Club. They stare down the lens at one point and say, Everything that happens after this point, cigarette burn in the corner, Is weird and fantasy, so you don't have to worry about the admin. So it's fine that it makes no sense Act Three: all Fight Club, all l the time.

Emma:

they start a cult.

Sam:

It's called Project

Emma:

I wrote, Project Mayhem is the most stupid edgy boy name for anything ever. Fuck off.

Sam:

we don't learn its name for a little while so my notes start calling it the Fight Club Mega men. Edward Norton and Brad Pitt do fight club constantly now and keep getting their fight pals to do catastrophically, childish acts of edge lordery like hitting cars with a baseball bat or getting a pigeon to do shit on them. Ooh, they blew up a computer shop. Take that the man there is some sort of shitty test for potential fight club mega men where they have to stand outside the house and not take no for an answer. Ah, and then Meat Loaf's character Oh, comes up and tries to join the

Emma:

Men. So we've not talked about Meat Loaf's character yet. Meat Loaf plays Robert Paulson, or Bob. And he meets Edward Norton at the testicular cancer group. Where Bob is presented as being a big bloke with massive tits.

Sam:

Bitch

Emma:

Bitch tits. film calls them. Yes. Which is nice, isn't it? Bitch tits. That's to distinguish them from the desirable lady tits. The two different types of tits.

Sam:

Tits. Okay, taxonomy of tits.

Emma:

Indeed. Think Meat Loaf plays it pretty well. Yeah? I think it surprised people that he was capable of acting. Sure. And I think, he Plays the character well, he's quite emotional

Sam:

Bob's character is the most Emotionally healthy man in the whole film, and he gets fucked up as a result. He is comfortable crying about the difficulties and encourages Edward Norton to let it all out as well, and Edward Norton sees that as a weakness in him, even though he is That's why he's gil. He's gone To the club, to the

Emma:

group. Yeah. And he is able to sob into Bob's big tits.

Sam:

Yes. Thus, emasculating Bob.

Emma:

Yes the character of Bob is emasculated by everybody.

Sam:

Yes. By an incredibly on the nose script. Huh. He's had to have a double orchidectomy. Yes. And therefore it's physically emasculated, as well as having another man cry on And then later on He joins Fight Club and has a lovely time there.

Emma:

Oh, he really seems to enjoy himself.

Sam:

has a lovely time at Fight Club. It's a club for men. Meat Loaf goes and has some fights and then he wants to join the Fight Club Mega Men. But because he's such a, insert misogynist term here, he does take no for an answer for joining the Mega Men, and Edward Norton has to go over to him and say, actually, this is a test. Keep refusing to give up. Yeah.

Emma:

Edward norton should have just let him go. He's not cut out for that life.

Sam:

Yeah. And then later on he gets deaded. he's shot Loaf has been shot in the head by a cop while he was out doing edgelord crimes. Edward Norton is mad. All the Mega Men are confused because he's using Meat Loaf's name, but the Fight Club Mega Men don't use names. It's basically the bit in Life of Brian where the mob does everything that brian says Edward Norton says,"his name is Robert Paulson" and they all start chanting that like a religious

Emma:

his name is Robert Paulson.

Sam:

And that catches on with fight clubs around the world and Edward Norton's one attempt at undoing the burgeoning fascist cult just entrenches it even further. Yes! So it is just like that bit in Life of Brian, where all think he's the Messiah and won't leave him alone

Emma:

but really he's just a very naughty

Sam:

It's at that point that Edward Norton realises that Brad Pitt has been flying all over the shop starting fight club clubs. At one of the cities, he realises, HE IS TYLER DURDEN OMG FUCKING HELL WHAT THE SHIT CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS? So he's Brad Pitt. That don't impressa me

Emma:

much. Oh nice! Very well done. So yeah, he's flying around trying to catch Tyler and then he realises he is. And so Tyler appears before him and they

Sam:

another boring And then the very end, edward Norton is being held prisoner by imaginary Brad Pitt. Who is holding a gun to him and Edward Norton realises that to kill Brad Pitt. He has to kill himself So he shoots himself in the head which

Emma:

which kills

Sam:

Pitt. And then it turns out he shot himself through the cheek and therefore Brad Pitt died for nothing.

Emma:

It's such a weird ending. It feels like such a cop out, actually. Cause

Sam:

There's the obvious question that if he knew he was not shooting himself to death,

Emma:

Exactly! why didn't Tyler it's almost like a, oh, we have to try and make this a little bit upbeat. Cause him just killing himself at the end would be

Sam:

Do you think it's upbeat?

Emma:

No, The film ends seemingly on a positive note with Ed Norton and Marla together. Yeah. Holding hands and now, in theory, better versions of themselves. Suggesting that the toxicity and abuse was all worth it in the end. And such a message is so deeply problematic, I think. Especially for those that have taken Fight Club a bit too literally.

Sam:

Hahaha

Emma:

This is what I was noting down last

Sam:

Yeah, that's absolutely true. My reading of it is that when, he says, My eyes are open, just before he shoots himself.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

And then Brad Pitt dies. He amalgamates both his personalities into one, even though only one of the personalities needed dealing with. Because the Edward Norton personality at that point knows what's going on and is a goody in, yeah, he's, he's the best version of himself. But he chooses to absorb,

Emma:

Do you think he absorbs, or do you think he's just

Sam:

No, I don't think

Emma:

think he

Sam:

does eradicate. Because Marla comes in. Escorted by some of the Mega Men. Because Brad Pitt had arranged for her to be brought up and murdered and he says let's not do the murder bit But we will blow up capitalism

Emma:

See, I thought it was resigned to the fact that they couldn't halt it at that point.

Sam:

he seems quite happy

Emma:

don't know, I think he's just euphoric that he's survived shooting himself in the face. Oh,

Sam:

Shoots himself in the face and then within 12 seconds he's talking, a bit hoarsely. He's got a huge hole in his cheek, Emma! I know in films when you get

Emma:

shot,

Sam:

you're it's just a bit it's an inconvenience, isn't it It's like an insect This a whole new level and of course the film has an out for this, because they've already told us that all of this is a fantasy so it doesn't have to make sense. Get fucked David Fincher before we move on from the ending, do you know about the Chinese ending? When this film was released in China, victory of the anti authoritarianist group at the end

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

couldn't be allowed by the Chinese censors. A caption just comes up and says, Through the clue provided by Tyler, the police rapidly figured out the whole plan and arrested all criminals. Successfully preventing the bomb from exploding. After the trial, Tyler was sent to lunatic asylum receiving psychological treatment. He was discharged from the hospital in 2012.

Emma:

Is that the end?

Sam:

Amazing!

Emma:

Amazing! Yeah! Oh my god! I love

Sam:

it. I would have preferred it, to be honest.

Emma:

be On Rotten Tomatoes it's got 81 percent favourable reviews. But I was reading a Guardian review, because Fight Club was re released earlier this year it's the 25th anniversary, I think? Yeah. And the Guardian only gave it three stars. Tremendously acted classic, still feels overblown. Its ungainly final twists and unreal violent sequences dim a film with a brilliant premise and rage that still stings."

Sam:

It feels like we're edging towards rating this film. Before I reveal the rating scale that we've been assigned by the BBFC Let's separate the legions of men who don't understand

Emma:

it

Sam:

from the piece itself.

Emma:

As I say, previously, I have really enjoyed this film. At the time, it was very stylish. Very beautifully

Sam:

it's very well edited and shot. It does. address an important problem that society still struggles with where should or does masculinity lie It's just too long. It's

Emma:

It's too long and it's been taken too seriously by the edgy boys. And in a world where that's a little bit scary, it's quite hard to stomach.

Sam:

Yeah. Emma the BBFC did call me up after they found out that we were doing this. this Yes. And, And, Mr. BBFC. The British Board of Film Classification, for anybody who's have the following to say to me. If you are going to rate this film, please use the official BBFC film rating scale for director David Fincher, which has David Fincher at the top, David, I wouldn't throw it in the bincher, in the middle, or at the very bottom, David Finchy, the misogynist bellend from the original UK version of The Office. Emma, what's this film?

Emma:

As you say, it's not a terrible film. The subject matter is just difficult and misinterpreted. But also it's painfully long and laboured. Yes.

Sam:

It's painfully long and laboured, yet still misunderstood, and if you're going to make it painfully long, it's your fault if people still don't get it. I think we do have to call this a David I Wouldn't Throw This In The bincher. David, I wouldn't throw it in the bincher! That was Fight Club, Emma, 1999. Shall we talk about a more fun film?

Emma:

We probably should.

Sam:

I have brought us The Shadow.

Emma:

The Shadow.

Sam:

The Shadow.

Emma:

Shadow.

Sam:

This is a 1994 film starring Alec Baldwin,

Emma:

Sam, how would you sum The Shadow up in one sentence?

Sam:

it Magic Batman. And then a second sentence to explain that yes, nerds, I do know that the Shadow came before Batman, but we live in a Batman era, so everything I do and see is filtered through the lens of Batman. The Shadow is a character who is Batman, but is also a wizard.

Emma:

Bat wizard.

Sam:

Bat wizard. Wizard man. You can see why they settled on the Shadow. An old timey car drives through what the captions sensitively call

Emma:

OPIUM FIELDS

Sam:

TIBET. This is going to be completely culturally sensitive and fine. The car pulls up to a temple and two guys in suits rush James Hong into a room. James Hong has murdered one of the crime boss's men, and the crime boss is Alec Baldwin! He's all long haired and long nailed like a vampire or some

Emma:

about the nails? Because, eugh! I really hated that

Sam:

Something of the 19th century opium fiend. It was grim. Yeah, he like there's only one scene that he looks like this, but it's very much Gary Oldman in Dracula He's really vampire y and horrible but he's clearly a massive opium addict and runs the opium crime gang quite successfully.

Emma:

And everybody knows you're not supposed to, places. Yeah, yeah.

Sam:

To prove what a badass he

Emma:

Ha ha ha!

Sam:

Alec Baldwin gives a small speech about how one of his men is such a loyal guy and almost like a father to him and then has his goons shoot through that guy to kill James Hong.

Emma:

I said, what a bastard.

Sam:

I'm positive this film is going to explain very easily and non dodgily why a white American guy is running this opium gang in the middle of Tibet. Spoiler alert! It doesn't try, it doesn't it doesn't

Emma:

Nope, not even a little bit.

Sam:

it's probably the best route to go down. Then, Alec Baldwin gets kidnapped by some other guys who take him to their

Emma:

You've missed the bit where so he's disturbed in the night by dreams. Of the teacher who is gonna be at the temple. He wakes up from a bed full of women.

Sam:

Do you know what, I must have been typing during that he's

Emma:

Yep.

Sam:

kidnappers take him to their temple."What, that temple," he asks, pointing to a little shabby hut."No, the one behind" they pointing to a massive gold building which is right next to it. This is literally a thing that happens in the film without an ounce of exaggeration. Hahaha.

Emma:

I liked that bit. It made me laugh so hard.

Sam:

The temple is home to a bald dude who has a lot of gold. The bald dude Alec Baldwin's real name and wants to recruit him to fight crime because he's so good at crime himself. And then, the director is too lazy to do an actual training

Emma:

montage. Text on

Sam:

Yeah, we just get a sub Star Wars scrolling paragraph. Other films would give you a training montage showing how he turns from this Yeah, turns from this evil villain into a modern day hero. No, It's like the Chinese censors got to Alec Baldwin gave up evil and became a goody under the guise of

Emma:

The Shadow

Sam:

and then he went to New York.

Emma:

Yes, because now we're in New York city.

Sam:

years later,

Emma:

Some generic New York gangster baddies. They're about to do a murder.

Sam:

Using the old concrete overshoes technique. Lovely. And are about to throw a guy off a bridge when mysterious laughter echoes all around. The ghostly voice of Alec Baldwin taunts the gangsters. One of them goes mad, shoots his gun all over the place and just fires into the dark. After not killing anything, he gets another, bigger gun and does same The spooky ghost of Alec Baldwin beats him up a bit and then tells him to go confess to his crimes, he rescues the victim and the victim, who's obviously terrified at this point, what Alec Baldwin does to reassure him is, shoot at his feet loads and loads and loads to break the concrete off. this is where we learn that the Shadow isn't just Magic Batman, he's Magic Batman with even fewer ethics. Because he rescues this poor guy and then says

Emma:

Now you work for me. You're one of my agents now.

Sam:

you work for me. Oh, but in order to let the agents identify each other, Alec Baldwin gives them all magic rings. Oh

Emma:

Ah yes, the magic glowing

Sam:

Yes, but at no point does he measure the guy's finger. So from this we can infer that as well as invisibility, his powers include knowing everybody's jewellery

Emma:

size. Everybody's ring size. I think it would detract somewhat from the film if you brought out a ring

Sam:

brought out the ha! The set of The Measurers, the yeah, oh, hang on. Oh, you're between

Emma:

that's quite frustrating.

Sam:

an F, that's quite but if it gets loose do let me know. So then Alec Baldwin goes to a nightclub, but not like today's nightclubs. Instead of repetitive electronic dance music like Scooter's cover of The Logical Song and teenagers taking drugs, they have a lady singing jazz and Alec Baldwin's uncle eating prime rib.

Emma:

I'm up for that kind of nightclub.

Sam:

Everyone in the 20s seemed to have the best nightclubs, because there were

Emma:

stake And music that you can talk over.

Sam:

Uncle Prime Rib gets mad because alec is always late for stuff and needs a hobby. And then mentions that Alec disappeared after the war for seven years, which is weird because his training takes seven years as well. So this means either he sets up the opium gang in a couple of days, or he's in constant contact with his police commissioner uncle while he's running the opium gang.

Emma:

Hmm. almost as if this is quite a badly written film.

Sam:

Emma Crosland, how dare

Emma:

you. well. Oscar

Sam:

winning stuff. Uncle Prime Rib is going to set up a task force to catch this shadow character, but then Alec Baldwin does a Jedi mind trick on him and he changes his mind. Alec Baldwin then pops over to a sexy lady two tables over and invites her out for a succulent Chinese meal. You've been wanting to get that in, haven't you? Ahhhh. eating a They're eating a meal Emma.

Emma:

A succulent Chinese

Sam:

Chinese meal, but she's a mind reader! OMG, he's thinking about how nice her dress is and She thinks like,

Emma:

yeah, she that's just women's intuition. Oh.

Sam:

As a result, Alec Baldwin has to spend the rest of the date awkwardly trying not to think about how he's secretly the shadow. Or, presumably, her tits.

Emma:

Is that what men think about on dates? Do they think about, tits? Tits, yeah, on occasion. Okay. Yeah?

Sam:

What, were you expecting men to never think about tits?

Emma:

I know that, I just wondered if, on a date you were so

Sam:

No, but it's, it's, No, but,

Emma:

a naive fool I

Sam:

it's more that if somebody says to you, don't think about my tits, cause I'll know, what's the first thing that you're it's don't think about a pink elephant, isn't it?

Emma:

Yeah, I suppose so. I suppose so.

Sam:

He's thinking to himself, shit, I'd better not think about how I'm the shadow. Oh, I better not think about thinking about how I'm a shadow. That must have been stultifyingly dull conversation for her because he's staring into the distance trying not

Emma:

think any. Not to think

Sam:

any thoughts But regardless she wants to see him again And he decides not to because no brainer just find any other non psychic woman Alec Baldwin There are probably like

Emma:

in your...Dozens Meanwhile dum dum dum.

Sam:

at the Natural History Museum, Professor Exposition and his museum pal are examining a sarcophagus exhibition from tibet. Which I'm pretty sure isn't natural history, unless there's a dinosaur in there. But there isn't. There's a Genghis

Emma:

Khan in there! This was such a weird moment for me. Yes. Because I wasn't sure where it was going. We'd obviously seen some gangsters. Yeah. And I thought, oh, maybe it's going to be a bit about that. Because I've not read any synopsis or anything. I went into this cold. Yeah. And then suddenly a Genghis

Sam:

Although, let's do a spoiler alert, because we think A Genghis Khan does come out but then for no reason, we later find out he's not the Genghis Khan. Just his last living descendant, who got a lift in his sarcophagus to America for no reason whatsoever. NB, Genghis Khan was a notorious shagger, And it's reckoned that around one in two hundred people alive today are descended from him. This Then we cut to the federal building, where Dr. Ian McKellen and his Ian McKellen

Emma:

McKellen is

Sam:

I know!

Emma:

shit!

Sam:

And his assistant, a confused Tim Curry who isn't sure if he's British or

Emma:

American Tim Curry!

Sam:

They're doing science for the War

Emma:

I love the lab setup that they've got. It's proper, b movie science stuff. So they've got all the electricity and various bottles bubbling away. So they've mixed their sciences big time. Yes. There's no This is physics, or

Sam:

no.

Emma:

or, it's all science. He's polymath. all the happens. what happens. if we mix this chemical with the electricity? Exactly.

Sam:

Answer, Genghis khan. Ian McKellen turns out to be the father of the psychic woman, and also colourblind. I I bet that doesn't come up again. A cop, wearing one of the Shadow's secret rings, takes a message to a mysterious office. We are then treated to an incredibly long and expensive sequence of the message in a pneumatic tube system going ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE CITY, on the outside of buildings, in and out, up and down, under the sewers, whatever, and then goes to Alec Baldwin's secret spy base. Did the council not notice him installing hundreds of of miles of tubing around the city for his secret spies

Emma:

How long has he been back this point or Tibet or? No time?

Sam:

no time,

Emma:

he had that done? Or was it pre existing? Is he a Oh, is it a a pre existing message this? Yeah, yeah. Stop

Sam:

finding logical reasons for this stupid plot to make

Emma:

But why is it pre existing? And why is it not on some sort of council Yeah! Dunno!

Sam:

thEre's a man gathering messages on behalf of Alec Baldwin's spies all around the city.. And then he presses a button that makes Alec Baldwin's ring flash. Which tells alec baldwin to then go to his Not the bat cave, his Alec Baldwin cave, where he can then call that man on a sort of futuristic radio

Emma:

know that this is set well and truly in a fictional past. Why can't they just phone?

Sam:

of Yeah they did have phones then.

Emma:

then You're right. They had phones. What's with all of the faffing around?

Sam:

this is Pulp, Emma! while he's been speaking to the man, Genghis Khan, who turns out not to be Genghis Khan, has snuck in and they have one of those lovely conversations between the goody and the baddy. Where not Genghis Khan lays down his plan to conquer the world, and Alec Baldwin gives him tips on where to buy a tie from. And then Khan pays for his drink of bourbon with a mysterious coin.

Emma:

Yeah!

Sam:

And then somehow in New York he's found a squad of other Mongolian dudes in full armour.

Emma:

This blew my mind. Where did they come

Sam:

incredible, look, there's no

Emma:

to their origin

Sam:

origin

Emma:

They're just there.

Sam:

all separately shipped over in sarcophaguses? just in the previous scene, Siwan Khan is very clear to lay down that I am not Genghis Khan, I am a modern man from the modern day. And now I'm gonna go hang out with a bunch of men dressed like Genghis

Emma:

khan's. Yep. Yep.

Sam:

army. Alec Baldwin gets his newly rescued science pal to analyse the coin and it turns out to be made of bronzium, a mythological Chinese material which the universe was made of according to a myth that definitely isn't made up by a writer who knows nothing about China. Bronzium.

Emma:

Bronzium.

Sam:

Also, bronzium is used for making atom bombs for some reason, but you'd need a weird case to build one in. I sure hope Dr Ian McKellen isn't working on one one right right now. Alec Baldwin transforms into the shadow in the back of a cab and we realise for the first time that the shadow involves a disguise which looks just like normal Alec Baldwin but with a big fake nose for some reason. Did you enjoy this? I

Emma:

I enjoyed the fake nose. Really fugly

Sam:

but also he wears a bandana over it as well. and a big hat pulled out over his

Emma:

eyes, and he's He could be going around in his pants and nobody'd know. And

Sam:

unnecessary!

Emma:

he could just hypnotise it away.

Sam:

He's got so many powers, he doesn't need fake nose power as well. But the baddies attack Ian McKellen's top secret lab, Alec Baldwin comes in and has an exciting fight, and given his superpower is being invisible, he doesn't even have to do any acting. The baddies just fall over a lot and go, ah, like they've been punched, but not as expensively.

Emma:

It's convenient.

Sam:

Alec then goes off to Chinatown to have a chat with the baddie who has bought the same suit and tie as him, which is very sweet. And then they have a fight. They both shoot guns at each other and the bullets smash into each other in mid air. is very exciting, but the film does not in any way imply that this is due to magic. It's just a massive

Emma:

coincidence. There's no real reference to that again, is there? This incredible

Sam:

There is a lovely FX of the

Emma:

of the bullets

Sam:

hitting each other. Neither of them had glowy eyes or did anything that is associated with magic in the film.

Emma:

coincidence. That is quite the coincidence. I'd love to know the probability of that

Sam:

If you know the odds of two bullets hitting each other in mid air, do emails it and chat out of hell at gmail. com. A sailor on shore leave makes fun of the baddies clothes in a transphobic way. So he hypnotises him into jumping off the Empire State Building, which is fair enough, really. yeah, yeah, yeah. That sailor was a prick. Alec Baldwin goes to confront Tim Curry,, but does so, for some reason, in a massive water tank.

Emma:

Yeah, I gave so few shits about the Tim Curry character. And I didn't really understand why there was the water tank.

Sam:

Yeah, at first I thought, oh, Tim Curry lives in some sort of eccentric house by the docks. It was just a big water tank and the Shadow felt it so important to speak to him that he had to go there then. And, wouldn't you know it, Tim Curry filled it with water!

Emma:

Dum, dum,

Sam:

And then runs away so that Alec can drown.

Emma:

But he uses his special magic

Sam:

Yes, he's got another magic power, it turns out. The brain

Emma:

Yes. Why didn't

Sam:

he use that to speak to the spy guy

Emma:

earlier Well, yeah! I like the idea of the brain phone, but, oh, I don't know. I might get cross line, and then you end up saying something that you don't. It's like when you accidentally text the person that you were texting about. That'd happen, you know it would. Yeah, it would. You'd think in the wrong way and suddenly you're bitching about Susan to Susan.

Sam:

I think this is supposed to be her reading his mind again. He decides to think, oh, come rescue me from the water. So that implies that for the past, whatever it is, two days he's been resolutely, not thinking about

Emma:

anything, Or she's heard everything. Oh, I really need a piss. I

Sam:

I'm she's known, he's the shadow since day one she's been very politely waiting. Yeah, I do have nice tits, he's

Emma:

alright.

Sam:

Yeah, she rescues him in the lowest stakes action sequence we've had so far. Quick, let's go to the baddie's Mongolian themed penthouse, where they're putting the final touches on their magic atomic bomb. And then, Emma! It's our favourite trope, SPINNY NEWSPAPER!

Emma:

Love a spinny spinny newspaper and

Sam:

a kid shouting, EXTRA. Extra,

Emma:

Extra!

Sam:

This film is five stars, give it all the

Emma:

Oscars. Hehehehe!

Sam:

The baddie sets the bomb's timer for two hours and then he says to Tim Curry, We're gonna leave in one hour. Why not just wait an hour, and set the timer for an hour?

Emma:

such a long

Sam:

time! It's so weird! Obviously the shadow breaks in, Cowardly Tim Curry is sent along with three of the tough guys to find him, And immediately sends the tough guys away. He gets all beaten up. And then Alec Baldwin displays another of his trademark unethical punishments. It's after subduing Tim Curry, he hypnotises him into jumping out of a window. Hypnotise him into turning himself into the cops? Nah.

Emma:

Window.

Sam:

Then there's the boss fight on the top floor. And then we cut back and forth between the boss fight and Ian McKellen and his daughter

Emma:

Oh my god. Chasing

Sam:

the bomb around the hotel because for some

Emma:

is pure

Sam:

sphere.

Emma:

slapstick. Yes! So the bomb was the big sphere and it might as well have had bomb written on the side of it. Yeah, fuse. A big fuse, and so Ian McKellen tries to defuse the bomb and manages to knock most of the two hours off. And then it becomes detached and rolls around the hotel. It chases them down the stairs at one point. It does!

Sam:

point. It does! Which

Emma:

is really stupid.

Sam:

Yes, how they achieve that? And then at the end, the old red green confusion comes in with a wire. Yep, but fortunately she's there to save the day. Women!

Emma:

Sometimes they're

Sam:

alright. That's

Emma:

That's the lesson that we take away from

Sam:

from this. battle with the baddie which takes place in a perfume advert.

Emma:

Yep.

Sam:

all the mirrors smash and there's glass everywhere. Alec Baldwin stabs him in the head with a piece of glass. And then we get the coda scenes at the end where the baddie is stripped of his powers after his life is saved by brain surgery and sent to a 1920s y insane asylum. But, the doctor who performed the operation shows off his shadow ring, implying one last time, just how much Alec Baldwin is up for unethical, vigilante acts of justice against

Emma:

can just jails. Yeah.

Sam:

Alec Baldwin gets off with the psychic lady in the street and walks off, confident that he's put in enough effort to enter franchise territory. Or has he

Emma:

This flopped big time, didn't it?

Sam:

Yes, so it had a budget of 40 million dollars and it grossed 48 million worldwide

Emma:

yep. It's got a 37 percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which feels about right. As you've already mentioned, it was anticipated that this was going to be the start of a mega franchise, sort of Batman esque but it flopped so badly that no followup ever came and they'd even completed a SNES game for it. They built and completed a SNES game, but it was never released. Yeah, that's how much of a flop It was. Amazing. Yep.'cause Dark Wing Duck got a video game. Post

Sam:

Game. So this came out in 1994. Yeah. The early 90s was a big time for pulp revival. There was a Dick Tracy movie in 1990 with Warren Beatty. Do you know about Warren Beatty's Dick Tracy sequels? So Warren Beatty has the rights to make Dick Tracy films. And to prevent the rights reverting to, I think it's Disney, it might be Universal, whoever, he's been making a shit sequel every however many years it is, to keep the rights rolling over with himself. He just puts on the Dick Tracy costume and bitches about something in the modern day. and releases that in the most minimal way possible to qualify for a film release. So the most recent one is Dick Tracy Zooms In that was made during the pandemic and he literally is talking into his laptop wearing the Dick Tracy costume complaining about Covid regulations.

Emma:

Wow. Wow. Is bloody mindedness,

Sam:

It's incredible. Can we talk about what's good? Because I love the visuals in it.

Emma:

Okay, yeah,

Sam:

The 1920s pulp New York, and the miniatures, there's a lot of camera work zooming around the city which is clearly made of models, and I think all that Deco stuff looks really good. Oh

Emma:

yeah. Yeah, it's quite a pretty film to look at The script is terrible

Sam:

bad script. It's

Emma:

really bad script

Sam:

I found a lot of fun in it though.

Emma:

It's a silly Saturday afternoon film. That's

Sam:

I thought as well,

Emma:

well. It's a, oh, it's raining, there is literally nothing else in the world to do. Let's watch this daft film that happens to be on.

Sam:

cast it has, it is dreadful. Everybody is rubbish in it, absolutely everybody.

Emma:

The premise for the film I feel like they did it a disservice with the script. It's been really badly written. And it could have been a lot more fun and campy and

Sam:

doesn't lean into this. Yeah, you're right it doesn't lean into

Emma:

so the reason that we've picked this particular film to talk about

Sam:

about Yeah,

Emma:

Is because as the end credits roll you get version of Original Sin which is one of Jim Steinman songs It's a song that I really like as we discussed at the last proper episode of Chat out of Hell. Yeah It's a banger of a song. It's Steinman's Bond theme.

Sam:

Yes,

Emma:

it's been pissed away on this.

Sam:

Yes. now This is interesting because it is steinman's bond theme he clearly wants to put this song on a big, bombastic, brilliant action film and puts it on this. I realised after we talked about it last episode, the reason it isn't a Bond theme is because we were in a big Bond drought at the time. Timothy Dalton's last film was in the 80s and then it's like a decade until we get Goldeneye. I do believe there were like big arguments over the rights, and it was stuck in production hell between different companies. But I think probably at some point in the early 90s, Jim Steinman says,

Emma:

this'll do.

Sam:

have to do. But! The director of this film was Russell Mulcahy, Who did the first two Highlander films, featured a lot of accent confusion, so maybe Tim Curry's his fault But he also directed the video for Total Eclipse of the Heart! Double link! So I think we must be able to infer from that at some point Russell rings up his old mate jim and says, I think we

Emma:

from the themes of the song, I was expecting a very different film.

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

It's not dark enough to have to have original sin.

Sam:

No, it's not. The character starts out as a crime lord and he's redeeming himself and, bullying baddies in all sorts of horrible ways, but it doesn't lean into that enough. No. I think if it was made now, it could be really exciting. If you Batman Beginsed it yeah. you could make it very dark Yeah. We've got ideas. Call me. You

Emma:

fly me out. I don't mind travelling economy. I

Sam:

It's time to rate this film,

Emma:

Emma. Yeah, God. What have you been sent?

Sam:

This one I had to build a big AI. in between episodes, I've been working on an AI to generate Rating scales for me. Yeah?

Emma:

make one yourself

Sam:

did have to make You're out

Emma:

Yeah,

Sam:

they're not good enough for our purposes. I did build a Rating Scale Namer

Emma:

5000. Ah, what a surprise was

Sam:

attempt.

Emma:

You have been busy.

Sam:

the lever, and the electricity sparked between the two big towers on top and the tiny little black and white screen in the middle of it opened up little metal iris thing. on the screen it said, Is this film Russell Mulcahy? Russell, I guess it's okay y. Or, Russell, absolutely no way y. And then it exploded, so we'll never use it it again. What do you think, Emma?

Emma:

It's a bad film but it's quite entertaining.

Sam:

I am going to place this film alongside things like Prince of Thieves, Ghostbusters 2 the less good Star Trek films. This is a fun film to watch on a Saturday afternoon. So I am calling this a Russell I Guess Is Okay.

Emma:

I will agree with that.

Sam:

Okay, you don't have to.

Emma:

no, I do agree with that. I think it's a bit of fun. bit of

Sam:

of fun. Emphasis on the bit. That was Chat Out of Hell Film Club. But listeners, what did you think of Please don't watch either of them. And I know some people did go ahead and watch them last time because they thought they sounded fun. Don't watch Fight Club. If you are going to watch one of them, watch The Shadow.

Emma:

Fight Club doesn't need any more people to watch

Sam:

Exactly. Whereas, if you watch The Shadow, you can play with your phone while it's on. You have opinions on those films, do let us know, at chatoutofhell@gmail.com Or, we're about to return with Series 3, crashing into December, and we are going to be talking about the Jim Steinman monologues. Wasted Youth, also called Love, Death and American Guitar, from the Bad for Good or Bat Out of Hell 2 albums, Nocturnal Pleasure, which appears on the album Dead Ringer, and also on the Pandora's Box album I've Been Dreaming Up a Storm Lately, and I've Been Dreaming And finally, the Want Ad, both of which are, again, Pandora's Box. So if you can find those, Tell us some opinions about them. We have had some emails in our break, but we're going to save those for next time. Emma, any final thoughts on Film Club?

Emma:

I'm just thinking about the Jim Steinman monologues, which was a less successful one woman show.

Sam:

Emma done a funny.

Emma:

Mean. You did! It's just the way you say it.

Sam:

I'm sorry. I found it funny.

Emma:

Good. Thank you.

Sam:

found it funny, but I also didn't have a laugh

Emma:

ready. You have to have a laugh prepared? What fucking psychopath are you? Jesus! I just knew that if did a

Sam:

knew that if I did a fake laugh, you'd think it was a fake laugh But it funny. Now I have nothing else to Anyway, that was Film Club. We'll see you all some point really soon, because we're running late on this, but it'll be December 2nd, whenever that is. See you all then. Bye! Bye! Bow now, now, now!