Chat out of Hell

Episode 4.5 - Surf's Up | Masculine

• Emma Crossland & Sam Wilkinson • Season 4 • Episode 5

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Grab your boards and hit the waves, dudes. Surf's Up! Jim Steinman's sportiest song slash rude joke meets Meat Loaf's MANLIEST number in this episode. We're stuck in the 80s again, so there's big shoulders and pastel coloured suits aplenty. BUT:

- How MANLY can one song be?

- Was Meat Loaf in on the joke?

- Why does masculinity smell just like Lynx Africa?

PLUS all the usual nonsense, discussion of radioactive animals and a dog determined to make it onto the recording today.

Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com, find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Chat out of Hell and don't forget to use the hashtag #DearA1saucewedontneedyoursaucenowwevegotourown

Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy.

Music extracts on this episode:

Surf's Up by Jim Steinman from the album Bad For Good (1981)

Surf's Up by Meat Loaf from the album Bad Attitude (1984)

Masculine by Meat Loaf from the album Blind Before I Stop (1986)

Hang on Sloopy by the McCoys from the album Hang on Sloopy (1965)


Send us a text

Emma:

What is this?

Sam:

This is Chat Out of Hell. It's a sort of internet radio program, just like normal radio, except instead of DJs, you have two dorks in a living room and instead of loads of cool music by different artists, you have tiny clips of music exclusively by Meat Loaf and or Jim Steinman, who is Meat Loaf?

Emma:

Meat Loaf was a singer who, when called up to the draft for Vietnam, deliberately gained pounds in four and a half weeks in an attempt to fail the physical.

Sam:

Sorry, I'm just mathsing that into stones. That's a lot. Yeah.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

Crikey.

Emma:

Who's Jim Steinman?

Sam:

Jim Steinman was a musician and producer, described by his manager David Sonenberg, as having"the intellect of an Orson Wells. Frozen in the emotional body of a 17-year-old." Who are we?

Emma:

We are Emma Crossland and Sam Wilkinson. And because I'm tired, I did what all teenagers do before they do their homework these days. I asked Chat GPT who we are. Oh,

Sam:

Oh,

Emma:

Apparently Emma, me is a comedic storyteller and local comedy champion in Leeds, uplifting underrepresented voices. Sam, you, apparently compliment me.

Sam:

I don't recall ever doing

Emma:

with linguistic, observational, standup musical flair and a tech archivist's edge.

Sam:

Yeah, and this is why you should never trust chat GPT because there is another Sam Wilkinson

Emma:

Yep.

Sam:

much more famous than me. He calls himself Sammy Wilk.

Emma:

Does he?

Sam:

Ah. And yeah, he got a bit YouTube famous. Anyway, welcome to Chat Out of Hell Bow goodo. Any pre-show chat?

Emma:

Um, no, I don't think so. Should we crack straight on with it?

Sam:

Alright. You got somewhere to be?

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

Oh, okay. Where you going home?

Emma:

Home Where my cat is?

Sam:

Yes. Your cat's out of jail.

Emma:

cat is out of radioactive jail.

Sam:

Yeah. Shall we provide any context for that or just leave it to the listener's imagination.

Emma:

My cat recently had to have radioactive treatment for her hyperactive thyroid. It's been really weird'cause for a week she wasn't in our house and I really missed her. And then for another week she was in our house, but confined her one room and I really did not enjoy that.

Sam:

And now she's allowed in the rest of the house. Yes. But you are only allowed to hug her for four hours a day.

Emma:

Uh, one.

Sam:

already burnt through more than

Emma:

that. It's just an hour a day.

Sam:

Is it just an hour?

Emma:

Just an hour at a time,

Sam:

Oh,

Emma:

Oh, and I've definitely burnt through that.

Sam:

Do you have a radioactive cat? Let us know. Chat out of hell@gmail.com. I'm

Emma:

so disappointed that she doesn't glow in the dark.

Sam:

Good. So this is Chat Out of Hell. It's the Meat Loaf slash Jim Steinman podcast where we both bring a Meat Loaf and or Jim Steinman song to the podcast

Emma:

we do, and then we rate it on our patented Meat Loaf and or Jim Steinman scales.

Sam:

Yeah. But before that, we, we talk about the

Emma:

We do

Sam:

we bring the song,

Emma:

Unfortunately we do talk about the songs. Sorry about that, guys. It could be over so much quicker.

Sam:

Emma, what songs have you brought this

Emma:

Uh, brought Surf's Up from Jim's Bad For Good album, but also from Meat Loaf's Bad Attitude Album.

Sam:

So much Bad, in one cool surfer song, dude.

Emma:

What have you brought Sam?

Sam:

Oh, thank you for asking. I've brought Masculine from Loaf's Blind Before I Stop album.

Emma:

Sounds like it's going to be exciting.

Sam:

It's manly AF Emma. I'm not sure you're allowed to even listen to it.

Emma:

As one of them girl

Sam:

ones. As one of them girl ones like what you get now. Ugh. It's just, it's too much testosterone in this song.

Emma:

Oh, is it gonna make me a bit faint?

Sam:

I suspect you may fall in love with Meat Loaf via the medium of your ears. Because of how manly he

Emma:

is. Oh. Oh. I'm very excited about this now.

Sam:

Yeah. But we're gonna save that. We're gonna listen to Surf's Up first.

Emma:

Surf's Up, dudes!

Sam:

Yeah. Uh, so go. Listeners, go away to YouTube, Spotify, wherever you find your music, perhaps you find it... Down the back of the sofa with a few pounds in change and the program from a musical show you went to see a few months ago.

Emma:

Has that turned up recently then Sam?

Sam:

Yeah, I found it just the other day while I was tidying up. Yeah. Um, go listen to Surf's Up. We're gonna listen to it now and then we'll come back and all talk about it together?

Soundtrack:

How hard try.

Emma:

that was Surf's Up from Jim's Bad for Good album, sung by Rory Dodd, of course,

Sam:

that was going to be my first comment. There are some beautiful high notes in there that Jim didn't have a hope in hell

Emma:

not a chance. What a silly

Sam:

song. What a silly song. Emma.

Emma:

I've really enjoyed digging into this one., It's been a lot of fun. The themes of the song are not subtle.

Sam:

I've said it's stuffed with not quite double entendres, let's call them 1.5 times entendres.

Emma:

Some people online have said that it's a song about the end of a summer love feeling, but I think that we all know that it's just really one big joke about dicks and erections. There's no subtleties, nothing about that. you

Sam:

losers.

Emma:

It's about banging. It's about, but more specifically about getting hard. I mean the how hard bit good Lord

Sam:

followed immediately by surf

Emma:

up. And so am I, I love this. I love, that Jim wrote this, and just meant it as a big, silly dick song.

Sam:

Of course he did. banging guitar solo on there,

Emma:

banging guitar solo. Some absolutely gorgeous stuff. All the usual crew. That worked with, with Jim on his album throughout Rory Dodd, of course, taking the vocals

Sam:

a singer,

Emma:

a good singer, and Jim is not, It's just a fun song.

Sam:

It's a very fun, I, I, I,

Emma:

song sung in a very serious way. Yeah. Which makes it even

Sam:

it so much fun. It's all about having a huge boner,

Emma:

Yeah. And

Sam:

it's sung. I do like that he's sort of, he's tried to Maisie, come here. Oh no,

Emma:

headphones. Okay. Oh, no, Hang on. Hang on

Sam:

Uh, yeah, sure. Um, I love you too. Sweet dog. Yeah. Come this way. This way. Over here. Oh, you sat with your foot around Emma's headphone cable. There we go.

Emma:

There we go. Good girl.

Sam:

girl. Okay, Maisie, come here it is. Time to settle darling. You were settled and then you heard us talking about bonus.

Emma:

here. Dirty Mazie. We

Sam:

fixed

Emma:

sort of thing.

Sam:

Aw, that's my puppy. Yeah. What were we saying?

Emma:

I can't even remember.

Sam:

Um, oh yeah, no. Um, I like that Jim went for quite a Beach Boysie sound. A Big Brian Wilson sound.'cause of course that's what you want on a song called Surf's Up. So Yeah.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

And then he's given Brian Wilson a massive boner.

Emma:

The more I've, or the more we've got to know Jim mm-hmm. The more I enjoy how much of that sort of thing he pulls.

Sam:

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Emma:

At first I sort of thought, oh, he's gonna be quite a serious musician, but he's not, he's not, he's dicking around

Sam:

Well, that line about, being trapped in the emotional body of a 17-year-old Yeah. That is both, in terms of his fascination with incredibly deep, intense relationships. Yeah. But also dick jokes. Yeah. Ma

Emma:

Because that's what 17 year olds are. They're just like, intense,

Sam:

Hang, hang vi Maisy. Okay. Hi, beautiful. Oh, that's your good to, Do go on.

Emma:

I've lost my train of thought. Now. that, that is, that is exactly what 17 year olds are. They're incredibly intense, but also just wall-to-wall dick jokes. And there's no, nothing in between. No subtlety,

Sam:

no. No.

Emma:

No. Uh, and Jim. Jim is that and never really grows out of it, which I think is kind of

Sam:

It is, uh, it's, it's 50% wonderful. 50% a horror

Emma:

film. Yes. Should we watch a

Sam:

Yeah. Shall we watch the Meat

Emma:

video? Shall we watch? Let's, let's watch a Meat Loaf

Sam:

Come on up. This is Meat Loaf's version of Surfs Up. We're gonna listen to it. You don't have to, do they have to Oh, Emma says, watch the video.

Soundtrack:

And my body is burning like a juice. I fall what I'm hoping you'll be and the waves on the sand tonight. I wanna

Emma:

That was Meat Loaf's version of Surf's Up, which came, from his Bad Attitude album from 1984. It was a single, hence why it has, quite an elaborate music video. It did not trouble the charts,

Sam:

but why? It's quite good. is His vocal performance is very good on

Emma:

I mean, this is

Sam:

I, this, this is when he still has a voice. Sure.

Emma:

There's a review from a website called Crowd Full of Pockets, and it says here,"Surf's Up only got a Meat Loaf cover in 1984, when not even Meat Loaf's family was listening. I think it's a beautiful song. One of the best on this album. But I suppose a five minute dick joke has limited appeal."

Sam:

He delivers it less like a dick joke.

Emma:

It's much more po face and serious and own earn earnest, isn't

Sam:

it? Yeah. Yeah. I, one does wonder if Meat Loaf was in on the joke.

Emma:

I don't think he was. I mean, that video, that video is

Sam:

Tell the listeners about the video, Emma.

Emma:

We start out in black and white, and we find a piano covered in cobwebs. Is it a wrecked nightclub of some sort? It's hard to tell at this stage. Meat Loaf is sitting at a table and he's also covered in cobwebs. Is this Meat Haversham?

Sam:

I knew you'd get there first.

Emma:

Camera sweeps around and suddenly we're at the same table, but we're in colour cobwebs. It's a busy nightclub. Now. People are dancing. Meat Loaf is wearing a horrible eighties suit jacket.

Sam:

He's very Miami

Emma:

Vice. Yeah. It's weird, isn't

Sam:

it? I, well, I quite like that look, to be honest. I don't think it works on me, but, Meat Loaf carries it

Emma:

Yeah, I think he, he does all right with it, but it is, it is a very definite Yeah. Look. We're dipping about through history, because there were black and white, but it's full black tie, maybe in the fifties. And there's a girl, and then there were the eighties again. But there's still a girl. It's the same girl, but with slightly different bigger hair. And we are attempting to depict a timeless feeling, perhaps. Eighties Meat smashes the table that he's sitting at Back in the cobweb black and white era, the woman is walking through wearing what looks like a wedding dress. Then we're back to the eighties, and then she's looking glam. Everybody's suddenly blinded by a shining guitarist. Is this a Jesus? Who

Sam:

You can't put a Jesus in a song about surfing, about boners.

Emma:

Maybe, Jesus represents the boner. I don't know. It's all very confusing. But he's a shining guitarist, dressed in white. People are dancing in a worshipful way towards him. Suddenly we're at the beach, and it's nighttime waves are crashing. The guitarist is still doing his thing just on the beach now and less shiny. Then we're in the fifties for the next verse where the guitarist is also still there. Meat Loaf still sits at his table while people dance around then we're back at the beach again. Meets with his table this time at the beach. And the bride She's been splashed by the waves, which I feel might be a subtle metaphor. Meat Loaf finally stands up and walks over to her. He's standing behind us singing, and we see the moon and even a shooting star, she turns to him, they hold hands. And then lightning strikes in the background of this impossible beach. We flash back to the eighties for a bit, and then we finish on the beach and fuck knows what any of that's about.

Sam:

Well, I, I. As you were talking, I was obviously thinking about something else.

Emma:

Of course, I wouldn't expect you to actually

Sam:

listen no.

Emma:

me. no. just waiting for your turn to speak. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how this works.

Sam:

I was mentally comparing it with Meat Loaf's video for, It's all Coming Back to Me Now. Because this is a trend of Meat Loaf videos of Jim Steinman's songs. Where Jim wasn't involved is he takes the central idea and just stuffs it full of hot

Emma:

chicks.

Sam:

It's All Coming Back to Me Now, the video is very similar to the Celine Dion one, but with more hot babes. Yeah.

Emma:

While I was scouring the YouTubes, under this video there's a guy called MarkBenson2021, who was in the music video.

Sam:

Oh, hello.

Emma:

He said,"this was partially shot at Paddington Town Hall in Sydney, Australia in 1984 or 85. Hasn't been heard of for years. Me and my girl were part of the background dancers. Free sandwiches and beers till about 3:00 AM. A cattle call came over the radio. We lived locally he had a broken leg at the time, was on a carousel spinning to make it look like we were circling him.

Sam:

That explains a shot that I'd been wondering about then.'cause there is a shot of Meat Loaf sitting alone in a chair when everybody else is off dancing. I was wondering, why have they made Meat Loaf look like he's in a wheelchair? He might well be in a wheelchair.

Emma:

He fell off stage while touring Australia. He was very sweaty, wearing heaps of makeup. There are about four sound stages. I'm clearly visible at one minute, 45, wearing what looks like a footy jumper. No one ever believed us. Thanks for the post. It's a really great song."'Cause I think the video was missing for years. and somebody's Oh, okay. Restored it and found it and, and sort of looked after it. So I just thought that that was a lovely little snippet.

Sam:

Sorry, I've closed the tab, but I now I wanna look for this dude at one minute forty-five Meat Loaf is, singing to the camera with a selection of dancers

Emma:

Any one of those, I guess any one of them lovely

Sam:

Could be a footie jumper. Second face in from the right. Does that remind you of

Emma:

Go on? Who does it? Remind me of

Sam:

me.

Emma:

some. Are you in this video?

Sam:

looks a bit

Emma:

some. Did you, are you older than you, than you claimed to be?

Sam:

He's got the sort of, it's a, it's a very pixelated video of course. But he does have my sort of a nose going on and the hair that I had in my early twenties. That's disconcerting, isn't it? Good. good stuff. Anyway, you did something that didn't involve seeing a sort of time travel Mandela effect version of you in a music video. Tell me about that boring shit.

Emma:

You mean, the extract from Meat Loaf's autobiography? Well, as you know, I've been battling with this particular book for some time now. So once again, I put in the search term into the Kindle, and we've got one response about a single that he released

Sam:

Did you look for Surf Is Up?

Emma:

I didn't. Perhaps I should have done,. It has very little to do with the song. In fact, it has nothing to do with the song, but I'm gonna read it

Sam:

That's never stopped us before, has it?

Emma:

Indeed. We went up to Toronto to do a show. We were big in Canada. More people in Canada owned Bat out of Hell than owned snow shoes."

Sam:

Fuck off.

Emma:

"I got Jimmy to come up for that show. While we're on stage, somebody broke into our dressing room. They stole all kinds of money and our guitars, but these were replaceable. What was really disastrous was that Jimmy had brought his lyric book with him, with all the new lyrics for the next album. They stole that too. This was the album that was gonna be called Bad For Good. That very night we were gonna sit down and start going through these new lyrics. The book never surfaced. That was a huge, huge setback. I think that was a really terrible reversal for him. He'd written all of these songs and worked really hard, and when he lost that book, I don't think he ever completely got it back."That's where the second album disappeared. I think some of the songs he got back, Left in the Dark, Renegade Angel and Surf's Up are a few of them, but he could never ever get them all back in his head. After that, he sank down in the deep end. The blow was devastating for him and somehow that second album got lost there."

Sam:

I think that is a very important extract. Actually, we've never talked about this event before. No., The album that could have been had some cheeky scamp in Toronto not wanted some money and guitars. Or alternatively, perhaps there is a man in Toronto, even now entertaining house parties with a 12 minute mega epic.

Emma:

Oh, we will never

Sam:

We'll never know. But I do have to say Meat sort of imagines that this second album never existed when it, it does Bad For Good came out and

Emma:

my mom's got it on vinyl.

Sam:

Yeah. Lots of, it's all right. it's quite good.

Emma:

Would you like to listen to another version of

Sam:

Well, not particularly, but since we're

Emma:

another version from what feels like a different perspective. Okay. I've sent you a link.

Soundtrack:

and my body is burning like a naked. I wanna turn on the juice, fall in the fire. I'm gonna drown in the ocean sea. I'm gonna give you one I'm hoping will be given me

Emma:

The version that you'll just heard a short clip of, and we've listened to the entirety is by a woman called Danielle Steers. She was the original Zahara in the musical. She's also been Catherine Parr in Six. So a lot of, West End musical type stuff. Yeah. But in 2021, she released an album called The Future Ain't What it Used to Be, seems to be an album of Meat Loaf

Sam:

Yeah. I've Big Stein fan.

Emma:

She is a big Stein fan. This is a really weird choice though, this song, because the whole thing with this song. It's a dick joke. And it doesn't work with a woman singing. Jim wrote loads of really good songs for women, really good banging songs for women. This is not one of them. It just, it doesn't work on any level, doesn't it? I don't think so.

Sam:

I think, this is a meta joke.

Emma:

Really.

Sam:

yeah. She's delivered this with sort of absolute sincerity. Yeah. But in an easy listening style like the incredible Todd Rundgren guitar solo from Jim's version has been replaced with a sort of jingly jangly. Surely that has to be sort of,

Emma:

maybe, maybe I'm missing the joke,

Sam:

I don't know. Emma. She's got a good voice though. Good

Emma:

got a great voice. Just doesn't quite work for this song, I

Sam:

Yeah. I, yeah. I don't know. I'm gonna have to listen to the rest of the album.

Emma:

Yeah. Um, Considered that my gift to

Sam:

you, Thank you for that gift. I, it is genuinely cool that there are, you know, professional singers who are big enough Steinman fans who wanna just, I'm gonna cover all my favorite

Emma:

Jim songs. Yeah. It's quite a lovely thing to find. Yeah., So the people of the internet had things to say, do, I know we'll go with Jim's version first. Vanessa Warren, 1919 just said,"I want this song played at my funeral." Jim Steinman was a genius. Do you want a dick joke at your funeral?

Sam:

Listen, People, lots of people want their funerals to be a sort of a celebration of their memory.

Emma:

Mm-hmm. you know,

Sam:

actually I saw an advert last night that was making me think,'cause there's a chain of funeral directors here in the UK doing an advert of like, talk to now about what you want. And I was, what would I want? No, I wouldn't want Surf's Up. But, there is somebody, and that is a much more extroverted somebody than me who would find it fun to play a song about dick jokes at their funeral.

Emma:

this YouTube viewer. Yeah, indeed. Martin Price 6 7 9 3 said, just simply puts me in the best place ever. This song makes me want to do better. Just imagine singing this song at your best mate's wedding or something similar without them knowing the gift you have been given. Am I going sing it? Loud and proud, Rory. Love you, Jim.

Sam:

Are we going mad Emma? I

Emma:

can only think we might be are.

Sam:

Please tell me the comments were full of hurr hur boner jokes.

Emma:

There was a couple of her, her boner.

Sam:

Okay, good. We're not

Emma:

alone, but, but there was a lot of this kind of mawkish shit inappropriately mor his shit

Sam:

Have we gone mad? This song is definitely a five minute dick joke. Yeah, please do. Please do that as no chat out of hell@gmail.com. Surf up

Emma:

Surf's up and so am I. How hard. It's a dick I don't wanna sing this at somebody's wedding.

Sam:

Oh God. At somebody's

Emma:

I don't really wanna sing anything at people's weddings.

Sam:

is weird.

Emma:

Meat Loaf's version jedi, UK said,"this song is just absolute love and lust and longing that is quintessentially the male condition. A desperate, burning, fleeting yearning that totally consumes you and saturates every feeling, thought and instinct. God knows where it goes after, but that internal raging tide is all encompassing when it threatens to break against the cliff face."

Sam:

And if having an erection gives you a desperate burning, please do contact a doctor. Is it time to rate

Emma:

this song,

Sam:

It's Okay. So we are using our traditional artisan handcrafted Jim Steinman song rating scale. So that runs from Jim Steinman at the top for his finest of works to Jim Fineman in the middle for his averagest of works all the way down to Jim Declineman for the bad and or sexist songs that he sometimes did. But Emma, what's this? What is this?

Emma:

What is it? I

Sam:

love it. But I also love Rock and Roll Mercenaries and we both agreed that was

Emma:

shit. I don't think it's as shit as rock

Sam:

and roll. Oh, it's absolutely, listen, it's, it's either a Steinman or a Fineman. But it's dancing on that border.

Emma:

I think it might be a Steinman, you know? Oh, Because it's just a big, funny dick joke in an over the top romantic way.

Sam:

It's a lot of the things that we look for in a Jim song, isn't

Emma:

it? It is. It does tick a lot of

Sam:

and, uh, both versions are

Emma:

Boxes

Sam:

grow up, Jim Steinman's, bat Out of Hell. You took the words outta my mouth. It's all coming back to me now. Paradise by dashboard light, I'd do anything for. Love. Everything louder than everything else. Rock and roll dreams come through. Original sin, total eclipse of the heart. Life is a lemon. Oh, it's definitely better than life is a lemon. It is. It's a Jim Steinman. This is a Gem Diamond Steinman.

Emma:

Woo. Sam, what have you brought to

Sam:

Emma? I have brought, a song that I guarantee only the most hardcore of Meat Loaf fans in our audience have listened to, and that is Masculine from the album Blind Before I Stop.

Emma:

Ooh, this sounds like it will be really good.

Sam:

Let's find out. We've just listened to Masculine by Meat Loaf, and I'd like to apologize to Emma for exposing her to that much testosterone.

Emma:

Whew.

Sam:

I know

Emma:

It reeks

Sam:

What do you think of that? You've never listened to that one at all,

Emma:

Never heard that. Yeah. And it feels unlikely that I will ever hear it again. My goodness. If a song had a stench, then that would be teenage boys' bedroom or maybe like boys' locker room at school.

Sam:

Lynx Africa

Emma:

Lynx Africa

Sam:

The song had a stench.

Emma:

That song definitely has a When you think, you know this song. that Meat Loaf obviously decided to record at some point. It was written for him. As most of his songs were he decided that this is definitely one that he wanted to record. Compare this to any of the Jim Steinman works, and it's just so weird. A strange

Sam:

It's, uh, well, dad's choice. We're in the realms of, Blind Before I Stop. Yeah. Which is also where Rock and Roll Mercenaries came from. Yes. We're in the era of I don't need songs, I don't need lyrics. I've got big

Emma:

Yeah. It's a time of poor decisions, isn't it?

Sam:

I don't know. Right now he's following the eighties of big guitars and lyrics. I'm imagining a shoulder pad. Obviously there was no video. But,

Emma:

it definitely comes from the same universe as, rock and roll

Sam:

Yeah. Doesn't it? Yeah. It's very stupid.

Emma:

And it's very testosterone heavy. Uh, so madly in the most ridiculous and rubbish of ways.

Sam:

Yes. Well, I would say for a song called Masculine Uhhuh, I was expecting worse, to be honest. It is stupid in the same way that, Hulk Hogan's theme is stupid, and Real American, the other Hulk Hogan theme is stupid. And that is because they come from the same writer. It's that same, it's like wrestling. It's so stupid. It must be fake.

Emma:

It's fake masculinity. It's, it's a bit

Sam:

It's, it's a bit toxic, but it's also obviously a pantomime to anybody who

Emma:

Who's a teenage boy. Yes.

Sam:

Which, you know, the modern pantomime to everybody who isn't a teenage boy is much more damaging. But we're not at that. We're just a silly song about being masculine.

Emma:

I like the, I like the The answer Phone message at the beginning.

Sam:

Yes. It opens with an old lady with a thick New Jersey accent calling to complain about the noise and saying she's gonna ring the cops if you don't stop rocking out.

Emma:

Can you imagine rocking out to this song though? you know me, I enjoy a bit of a rock

Sam:

out. I have witnessed you rock out on at least three occasions. When it's times get tough. I'm masculine. When she wants to play rough. I'm

Emma:

Ugh.

Sam:

anytime, any place anyway, in the heat of the night and the dark of the day. When it's time to get tough. I'm masculine. When she wants to make love. I'm masculine.

Emma:

Oh

Sam:

God. That's most of the song. There are a couple of verses at the beginning, one of which contains an utterly horrifying lyric The girl's so deep inside, like blood in my veins, never lets me hide. Now I'm going insane. It makes me climb the walls, bite my nails to the bone. It's always by my side. It never leaves me alone." Bite my nails to the bone. To the bone, Emma. That's genuine body horror. Yeah. Stuff., I'm so masculine. I've bitten off the end of my finger.

Emma:

Oh, like it, Sam. Okay.

Sam:

I Don't like it. Okay. Sorry. Emma, would you like to learn about Rick Derringer, writer of this song?

Emma:

Probably,

Sam:

um, we'll see.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

He was born, in the 1940s in Ohio. His birth name was Richard Dean Zehringer. Had an early hit with his band, the McCoys, singing a song called Hang on Sloopy. I'm assuming you don't know that one? This is 1965.

Soundtrack:

Hey,

Sam:

Quite an influential song in, US Garage Rock

Emma:

Okay. So it was

Sam:

After release of this song, he changed his name from Zehringer to Derringer. Mm-hmm. Slightly more Anglicized version yeah. But also Derringer is a type of gun. Yeah.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

Albeit a small gun you can put in a handbag. He's, quite a big guitarist all over the place. He's played with loads of names, some of which have cropped up before. He played with Johnny Winter and then his brother Edgar Winter. Mm-hmm. And you'll remember Edgar Winter as the man who invented the key guitar.

Emma:

Of course.

Sam:

Under his own name and with bands that he's led, he's released something 30 albums. Wow. He joined Steinman and his little crew of session musicians via Todd Rundgren, who was his neighbour.

Emma:

Do you think they, he went round and knocked on his door. Do you want to come out and play?

Sam:

Alright, Mrs. Rundgren, can you

Emma:

Todd Go out.

Sam:

He played on some of Todd's albums and then he met Meat and Jim through that. Yeah. Of interest to the podcast, he was lead guitar on Making Love Out Of Nothing at All. As discussed last week, total Total Eclipse Barbara Streisand's version of Left in the Dark, which we've yet to talk about. Cyndi Lauper was a good friend. He played on the True Colours album, not on the song True Colours, he played with Weird Al Wow. He produced Weird Al's first six albums, and he played on the, song. Eat It,

Emma:

Which is the Beat

Sam:

It. Yeah. Yeah. And Fat, which was a, Bad parody. So both the Michael Jackson parodies, Weird Al was also a good friend. He posted warm Rick went down the same route as Meat Loaf in his later life. Rick, became, an evangelical Christian self-described Jesus freak, but also big into right wing conservative politics. Yeah. In a way that gives us the ick. Um, but he also rerecorded the, so the Hulk Hogan theme, Real American that he wrote, he updated the lyrics on it to be more inclusive in 2017. Yeah. So, the lyrics changed from,"I gotta be a man. I can't let it slide" to,"I gotta lend a hand. I can't let it slide.

Emma:

And

Sam:

for the right of every man became fight for the rights of everyone. Real American's interesting because he always wanted it to be more than, the theme to a wrestler running around pretending to hit guys. Yeah. And it did become that it's been used several times by politicians on both sides of the aisle in campaign stuff, which delighted him, no matter who used it. So Hillary Clinton used it as part of her first presidential bid in I think 2008. When Obama released his birth certificate to shut the stupid birther

Emma:

up. Yeah. He

Sam:

the song Real American. And of course, the bad, horrible ones have used it as well. Of course they have. But, he had this desire that this would be kind of the new national anthem. Oh, it's ly naive and weird. And, I'm sorry, Americans, your brand of patriotism is particularly baffling to those of us from outside. But it's, it is a huge instance of that. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it's very odd.

Emma:

Sounds like a complicated

Sam:

A complicated man,

Emma:

especially when he's being masculine,

Sam:

yeah. Rick wrote this song for Meat Loaf, Rick, the, guitar playing legend. Didn't bother playing guitar on the song. No, no. The guitar on this was by Peter er, who was a fairly well known session in Germany. He's not well known enough in the English speaking world to have an English Wikipedia entry. Right. That's Rick Derringer for you. Interesting chap. Yeah. He, um, he is very well regarded in guitar circles and like I say, he's played with absolutely tons of bands. He's a Grafter. But Emma, it's time for the quiz.

Emma:

My favorite bit.

Sam:

he's released so many albums, but which one of these is not the name of an album that he's released either under his name or one of his bands? A Guitars and Women b. Hey Mac, or C if I Weren't so Romantic, I'd Shoot You.

Emma:

Well, Hey Mac feels like a trick, but the first one. The first one, what

Sam:

that Guitars and Women.

Emma:

Guitars that's a terrible name for which makes me think you didn't make it

Sam:

up.

Emma:

So

Sam:

thank you.

Emma:

I, oh, I never get these right, and it's, it's starting to, starting to have an effect. Dread this bit. Now you talk

Sam:

about this at therapy? I got it again.

Emma:

He tricked me again. How am I gonna get over this this time? I know it's not important that I win everything, but it's important that I win everything.

Sam:

Even an obviously rigged quiz,

Emma:

Right, I'm gonna say that Hey. I know. No.'cause that feels like it was too obvious as well. Oh, you got into my head, Sam. No sleep for me tonight. I'm gonna say, Hey, Mac is the one that he didn't do.

Sam:

Well done. Yeah. Hey, Mac is half of a lyric from Macarena. Of course. Hey, Macarena. So

Emma:

did make it simple.

Sam:

I did. And I knew that you would do that.

Emma:

I hate you. I hate you.

Sam:

Well done Emma.

Emma:

Thanks.

Sam:

You've got a point, I think got a point. I think you've got two points, this series, that's which beats your all time series record by, by two points. Do you wanna hear what the people of the internet think? do. At Brian XU nine D one, I've been a huge Meat Loaf fan since 1977, but this song sucks.

Emma:

He's not wrong.

Sam:

He's not wrong. He's not wrong. Basically all there is to say about it.

Emma:

Yep.

Sam:

We're gonna apply our special Meat Loaf song rating scale to this song, which starts with Marvin Lee Aday at the top to Marvin Lee Okay in the middle, all the way down to Marvin Lee No Way. Emma, what's this?

Emma:

it's a no no way. isn't it?

Sam:

not offensive. It's just bad. It is just bad. There's nothing to recommend. There's nothing that makes me say

Emma:

it's not even like so bad. It's good.

Sam:

Right? It's not that like rock and roll mercenaries. is just nothing. It is just four minutes on a cd. Yeah. Um, filler. So this is a Marvin Lee. No. No way.

Emma:

Good.

Sam:

so that's our songs this episode. But what did you think about them? Did you agree with us? Did you disagree? Do you wanna rate that last song higher? No, are wrong. Drop us a line at chat out of hell@gmail.com. Like these people have. Why don't we hear what the people of the people of the internet, specifically the people of the internet who listen to our podcast have to say in general. We forgot to do email last week'cause we were quite tired Claire Muncaster has been back in touch. Hey. Hi Claire. Hi Claire. We talked, a little while ago a song that had Justin Hawkins out of off of the Darkness on Yeah. Claire has discovered that he has his own podcast. Justin Hawkins rides again. Ooh,

Emma:

Ooh.

Sam:

Claire says. I had the biggest crush on him back in the day. Can we induct him into the Loafverse too? I don't know if those two things are linked. But yeah, he's a bonafide member of the

Emma:

Loafverse. Yeah. He's done writings and that, and performances on, various Meat Loaf

Sam:

Yeah. We need to dive further into Hang Cool Teddy Bear, is the album that he was on. Claire does suggest chat out of hell rides again C-O-O-H-R-A Ra

Emma:

rah.

Sam:

Uh, can Sam get his voice that high as high as one of the most famous falsetto singers in the 21st century British rock cannon? No. Get your hands off of the motherfucker. Speaking of toxic

Emma:

masculinity,

Sam:

Emma, next time we're gonna dive into the recommendations bag from our listeners to mark the end of the series. Right. so what are you gonna bring,

Emma:

As

Sam:

Wonderful. And I am gonna go to a request from Tom Woffendon several series ago, I think. So it's about time we picked it up, Kickapoo from the Tenacious D film soundtrack, and that is by Meat Loaf, you know, Meat Loaf, that guy that we like. Let us know what you think about those. Chat out of help@gmail.com. And then this email is from Kathryn Richards. Dunno, dunno. Don't dox my wife. Hello team. I've just started listening to your podcast and recently finished your episode about Rock and Roll Mercenaries. watched the music video on mute while listening. Good call, and observed that Meat Loaf looks like he was playing Guitar Hero in a bedsit.

Emma:

Seat. Thank you, Kat. That's very, very

Sam:

It's very apt. Yeah., You know how Jim couldn't drive or ride a motorbike? Do we know if Meat could actually play the guitar?

Emma:

I think he could. But we need to, clarify. Is there any

Sam:

of skill, I guess.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

Meat Loaf and guitars are inexorably linked in the mind. But I, I'm wondering if that's just the power suggestion

Emma:

It could be

Sam:

A few of our listeners have seen me. You've seen Meat Loaf

Emma:

Live.

Sam:

Yes. Was he,

Emma:

Was he at times? I think he had guitars. Whether he was playing them or not different

Sam:

Did he have,, one of them special lackeys who bring on, another guitar when he bored of the color of this one?

Emma:

I think, I think there were lackeys that brought on guitars.

Sam:

Listeners, I know a lot of you have seen Meat Loaf live. Those of you who have, how is his guitar playing? Is he any better than perfunctory? Do let us know. Chat out of hell@gmail.com. Also, do you have a radioactive cat? Can you confirm for us that Surf's Up is indeed a dick joke? Chat out of hell@gmail.com. Let us know any general Meat Loaf thoughts or anecdotes. Did you see Meat Loaf playing Kabadi chat out of hell@gmail.com. Also, proper podcast. Ask this all the time, we keep forgetting. Um, us a favor and give us a five star review on your podcast listening app of choice. Recommend us to your friends. If you are the sort of weirdo that listens to two dorks chatting on about Meat Loaf, your friends are probably into it as well.

Emma:

None of our friends are.

Sam:

Sure, sure. Chat hell@gmail.com that you have friends, go on, give us a recommend, mention it. Um, everybody listens to podcasts now I reckon it's probably good I've not been on a first date in. 15 years. You are very similar, right? Oh,

Emma:

even longer than that. Mine's been like 17, 18 years since I was on a first

Sam:

So podcast basically didn't exist when Emma and I were last single. But any of you who are out dating, you probably have like, oh, what? What podcast do you listen to? Mention chat out of hell. It'll get you either to a second date or you weren't right anyway, it's fine. Let us know how those dates go. chatoutofhell@gmail.com. That's the end of the podcast. Anything else to say, Emma? Wonderful. And it's all good from me. Bow

Emma:

Chat out of hell will not get you