Chat out of Hell

Episode 5.1 Tear Me Down | Objects in the Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are

• Emma Crossland & Sam Wilkinson • Season 5 • Episode 1

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Five alive! But not the delicious soft drink of the 1980s. We're back for the first proper episode of series five with an exploration of Meat Loaf's sad origins. And really, they are sad. Poor bloke. But we still managed to find some fun in there, as we also get answers to the big questions. Questions like:

- Is there anything Michael Bay can't wedge an explosion into?

- Is there any song Jim Steinman can't wedge a vampire into?

- Is there any conversation Meat Loaf can't wedge a massive lie into?

PLUS we chat about early 2000s electro dance duo Moloko, learn what novelty pop hit will be torturing Emma this series and make a long-overdue correction to our Meat Loaf song rating system.


Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com, find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Chat out of Hell and don't forget to use the hashtag #DearA1saucewedontneedyoursaucenowwevegotourown


Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy.Music extracts on this episode:
Tear Me Down by Meat Loaf from the album Couldn't Have Said it Better (2003)
Objects in the Rear View Mirror by Meat Loaf from the album Bat out of Hell II: Back into Hell (1993)
Die Unstillbare Gier by Steve Barton from the Tanz der Vampire Original Cast Album (1997)
Confessions of a Vampire by Steve Barton from the Dance of the Vampires Original Cast Album (2003)

Send us a text

Sam:

What is this?

Emma:

This is Chat Out of Hell, the podcast where we carve ourselves a big old slice of Meat Loaf with a side order of Jim Steinman and smother it all in delicious A One Steak Sauce.

Sam:

that is appetizing. Who is Meat Loaf?

Emma:

Meat Loaf was a singer, actor, writer, blah, blah, blah, You know, all of that now he was also a guy who in his youth in Texas, saw not one, but two guys lose ears in bar brawls.

Sam:

you know what Oscar Wilde would've said to see one

Emma:

see, one guy

Sam:

lose an ear in a bar brawl might be unfortunate,

Emma:

but to see two is careless.

Sam:

Sorry, do you have a question for me?

Emma:

Who's Jim Steinman?

Sam:

Jim Steinman was a man of whom Meat Loaf said. Jim wasn't my friend, he was my other wife and I've always said,"I'm Henry VIII, and he was Anne Boleyn"

Emma:

Wow. I think

Sam:

meant that in a nice way.

Emma:

Oh, who are we?

Sam:

We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland. Two comedians who love Meat Loaf, love Jim Steinman also love doing homework. Hence this podcast. Welcome to Chat Out of Hell Bow now now now

Emma:

Bing.

Sam:

We're back. Yeah., It's series five.

Emma:

Series five.

Sam:

So Emma, what have you been up to in the mid series break?

Emma:

I've been watching Ghost

Sam:

Yeah. of course.

Emma:

part of our homework, which took a lot of time. I've been having COVID. Yeah. I've also been to a ukulele festival.

Sam:

Oh, well that's nice.

Emma:

was lovely. Yeah. That was a lot of fun this year. And I've been doing a lot of making and doing, which is the thing that I like to do when I'm not doing this old shite..

Sam:

Yeah. That's a very 1950s things to make and do to

Emma:

make and do Yeah. But my things to make and do are usually like crocheted animals with arses and things like

Sam:

Yeah, that's true. Things to make and do. Wasn't that an album by Moloko?

Emma:

I think it might have been. Moloko. Gosh, they had a song, didn't they?

Sam:

Yeah. Things to Make and Do, 2000 studio album by Moloko, who... didn't they also have an album. Right.

Emma:

This is a rabbit hole. We've accidentally fallen down.

Sam:

is, but this is our vibe, isn't it? Oh, Emma. Have a guess at This is an early quiz for you. Which one of these is not a studio album by Moloko? Do You Like My Tight Sweater? I Am Not a Doctor or Statues.

Emma:

I'm, I'm gonna say statues is

Sam:

They all are. They all are. Yeah. I can't ad lib a quiz that quickly. There you go. Little Moloko facts.

Emma:

Wow. I can't really remember much of what Moloko did.

Sam:

Well, their first single was called Where is The What if, The What ins? I haven't had a stroke. Where Is The What If, The What Is In Y? You remember that one? went to number 189 in Australia. The big song was the Time is

Emma:

Now. Yes.

Sam:

I'll sing it back. Anyway. This isn't a Moloko podcast. sorry. All you Moloko fans out there. This is a Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman podcast where we both bring a Meat Loaf or Jim Steinman song to our musical dissection table to analyze in our own inimitably half-arsed way, piggybacking off the back of other busier, more accurate researchers, and then doing some jokes and that about it, calling that a podcast. Emma, what have you brought?

Emma:

I've brought track called Tear Me Down, which is from the Couldn't Have Said it Better album. What have you brought?

Sam:

I've brought Objects in the Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are from the album Bat Out of Hell Two. Just to warn you that this episode does contain discussion of childhood trauma. So if that's not for you, that's fine. Don't listen to this one. We'll see you on the next But we are gonna start with your one this time, Emma, aren't we?

Emma:

Yes. We thought we'd do a bit of a dive into Meat Loaf's past We've had a good old root around inside Jim's dirty sock drawer.

Sam:

Uh, But also, yes,

Emma:

he would have a dirty sock

Sam:

Li listen, I don't think anybody wants to spend any more time thinking about the contents of Jim Steinman's sock drawer. Okay.

Emma:

When I said dirty

Sam:

drawer. Stop it.

Emma:

Sorry. I'm

Sam:

Oh, it's so crusty,

Emma:

Emma. Is it full of dirty socks? No. Has

Sam:

drawer itself No.

Emma:

Or is it

Sam:

itself is festering and green, and if you were to poke the wood, it would dissolve into powder.

Emma:

Anyway, with, with

Sam:

socks all had holes in all of them, and he was one of those men who never wears matching socks. You'd have two different black socks from different packets. So that one of them was actually very, very, very, very, very dark blue. And the other was very, very, very, very dark brown. And you could tell Jim,

Emma:

I'm very sorry to have put that picture in your head Sam

Sam:

Anyway, we're not talking about Jim Steinman's filthy sock drawer today. Emma. What are we talking

Emma:

we're, We're having a route through Meat Loaf's, dirty sock drawer instead. I'm stuck on dirty sock drawers. I can't get out. It's awful. We're gonna delve into Meat Loaf's Yeah. And find out a little bit about his sort of pre-fame history.

Sam:

Yeah. We know a fair amount by now about Jim Steinman's pre-fame biography. about time we gave Meat Loaf the same treatment. So yeah, that starts with Tear Me Down. So listeners, go away, find your YouTubes or your Spotifys or your accordions. If you're a, an accomplished accordion player, you could get the sheet music and play it to yourself. Give that a go. I'm gonna put a little short clip in here and we'll see you all after that.

Emma:

That was Tear Me Down from the, Couldn't Have Said it Better album. Sam, do you have any initial opinions?

Sam:

It was only three minutes long. I'd only just started

Emma:

listening to it. Yeah. This is very much not a Steinman effort.

Sam:

It's not a Steinman. I can see why you this for a Loaf biography day. Because there is

Emma:

a tiny bit of

Sam:

a bit of biography shoved in there for no apparent reason. As songs go, it's all right. it's a little bit of a bop, but it's quite forgettable, I guess, in Meat Loaf terms.

Emma:

Yeah. It's not originally a Meat Loaf.

Sam:

Ooh.

Emma:

a different version of this song is the opening track to Hedwig and the Angry Inch. a guy called Stephen Trask wrote the music and the lyrics for the musical Hedwig and the Angry Inch. Trask is a fan of Meat Loaf and has stated that Bat Out of Hell was a huge part of his adolescence. So the song was actually rewritten by Stephen Trask. Who said,"I've made lyrical changes, so it's more appropriate to Meat and less appropriate to Hedwig." I've had a look at both sets of lyrics. And there are definitely plenty of differences I think it's

Sam:

well, I would assume so. Yeah. I have seen Hedwig and the Angry Inch a long time ago.

Emma:

I haven't I'm not up on it as much. Obviously I've been reading around

Sam:

certainly the the protagonists of both are quite different characters, fair to say.

Emma:

The spoken word section in the original is about the Berlin wall and its erection and later demolition,

Sam:

if I may, tee hee hee erection.

Emma:

Of course, always..

Sam:

And then that certainly explains the otherwise completely nons, sequitous verse that comes after the spoken word section in the Meat Loaf bit. There ain't much difference between a bridge and a wall. That makes sense if somebody had just been talking about walls. Yeah. As it is. What, all right, fine.

Emma:

It doesn't,

Sam:

bit of architecture advice from Meat Loaf.

Emma:

Can't afford to rewrite the whole song. Steven Trask is a busy man. Yeah he's not gonna do the whole thing, but he'll certainly do bits of it."Song introduces Hedwig as a person who has been just like her hometown of Berlin split in two. Most obviously she's part male and part female. As the song progresses, we also see that she's a cross between conquer and victims spirituality and repugnance. Accessibility and imprisonment" said Wikipedia. As I say, I've not seen the musical, so I don't wanna comment too much on it. But I just thought it was an interesting little crossover that I wasn't expecting.'Cause this was supposed to be, Meat Loaf History Week. And instead it accidentally became Musical theatre Week.

Sam:

So 2003 Meat Loaf. He's not quite descended into the full angry, ranting old man that we know and

Emma:

He's not gone full Trump

Sam:

Yeah. Just interesting that a song from a avowedly gender queer celebrating musical makes it onto his, isn't Yeah. But

Emma:

then you think back to his past as well, being involved in Rocky Horror.

Sam:

Oh, well, absolutely. Yeah.

Emma:

so he wasn't always a... a raving right winger. Perhaps that's just what happens with Age Awkward Face, Paul.

Sam:

Oh, cool. All right. Yeah I'm a bit more on board with it now.

Emma:

Yeah. I thought that was really interesting.'cause as I say, the only reason I picked it up at this stage was because it had a teeny weeny bit of background in

Sam:

it. Yeah. Uh,

Emma:

Done over the top by a lady talking and that.

Sam:

a lady doing, who is the lady doing

Emma:

talking about? I've just been trying to find that out.

Sam:

Ah, yes. It is often difficult to find out who the ladies are in Loaf Steinman

Emma:

Yeah, There's a few potential contenders on the but none of them listed for the right track, but that doesn't mean anything'cause it's it could be Giselda Vatcky or it could be Tanja Reichert I don't know.

Sam:

Not to worry. It is not your problem if somebody else hasn't credited the right person.

Emma:

been trying to find things out about the song and nobody gives a shit about it.

Sam:

Unsurprising, I suppose it's.

Emma:

It's just an album track.

Sam:

It's an album track from a,

Emma:

a mostly ignored

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

tellingly. I had a look at the online comments. And there's bugger all. Nobody has said anything

Sam:

Oh. Just

Emma:

a few people going, oh, this came from Hedwig. And that was about it really. Nothing, not even on the official channels. So it's not loved track. But there are gonna be tracks like that.

Sam:

Yeah, it's fine.

Emma:

I have thought that this album suffers from, maybe that's not the right term, has been inflicted. This album has some very interesting production techniques for Meat Loaf bit at the

Sam:

Yeah. Can I just replay that?

Emma:

Yeah. That is so early two thousands. It hurts,

Sam:

It isn't it? Talking of Moloko.

Emma:

Indeed. There's a lot of that kind of production on this album. I think. It was desperately trying to l Meat Loaf up to date, and I don't know if that really

Sam:

Yeah. For a man whose biggest success has been very out of t certainly his stuff with Jim has never been fashionable. And that was what was always interesting And then again, like in the late eighties when he is adrift on his own and working with various people,

Emma:

Yeah. Making

Sam:

of leaning towards, popular styles forms of the time it doesn't work. So yeah.

Emma:

There are other bits like that to be found on that album and also later albums as well. We can look forward to some distinctly new metal sounding bits. Ooh, yeah.

Sam:

Ooh. Gird your loins, listeners shall we talk about the biography bit then?

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

That's the reason you brought this song we wanted to delve into Meat Loaf's past a bit and there's a big chunk of Meat Loaf's past delivered. Hamfistedly.

Emma:

the second part of the spoken word bit is, yeah, everything from Texas is big, larger than life and non bigger than little Marvin Aday so big, his daddy called him Meat Loaf. He grew into a big man with a big voice and he sings big songs and has big hits. You can try and tear him down.

Sam:

Take that.

Emma:

Yeah. My notes on this say, this feels like a bit of a fighting back song from the incredibly tedious stuff I've read in his autobiography. Meat Loaf seems to have felt like he was constantly bouncing back from setbacks, whether it was fallouts with Jim or management issues, or problems with money. There's always that feeling of having to bounce back. You can't tear him down'cause he's gonna come back with another album whether you like it or not. It's quite a vitriolic.

Sam:

Yeah. You've skipped over it, but the first part of the spoken word section is a history of how Texas joined the union. And obviously Meat Loaf is a proud Texan. Yeehaw, et cetera. Apologies to any Texans listening. Um, Texas is the best and it's massive. And we produced the best massivest musicest man in the world.

Emma:

Marvin Aday.

Sam:

Marvin Aday.

Emma:

Interesting that his original name is used in this rather than Michael.

Sam:

Yes. So shall we get onto that right now and acknowledge a disservice we've done to Meat Loaf, perhaps

Emma:

we we do we need to change the Meat Loaf

Sam:

don't know. I was wondering about this. So his birth name is Marvin, and then his name legally becomes Michael. Yes. But from, well, as soon as he enters performing he's Meat Loaf to everyone.

Emma:

Do you know the story behind why he hated Marvin so much?

Sam:

A bit. But why don't you tell it?

Emma:

So Meat Loaf was a big old lad, right from being a kid. This is a quote from his autobiography he weighed 240 pounds in seventh grade, which is age 12 to 13.

Sam:

What's that with Stones? Okay, I'll do it Fuck me. Sorry. How old was he?

Emma:

12 and 13.

Sam:

17 Stone. so the Dead Ringer movie was bang on then,

Emma:

Two 40 pounds in seventh grade. And people were not kind about it. He said in his autobiography,"after we moved, I remember going down the street to play with this kid. I was in sixth or seventh grade,'go away.' His mother yelled at me,'you can't play with my son. You are too fat.' Weird, huh" and then he says,"being too fat to play with the other children. I had to spend a lot of time alone, which probably has a lot to do with the way I am today. I'm usually alone in my hotel room right after the show until the next day's soundcheck. And I'm never bored. I don't get bored. Probably because mothers wouldn't let their kids play with me"

Sam:

Oh, that's so sad.

Emma:

Yeah. I really fucking hate

Sam:

that. That's awful. Hey, mothers of Texas. Go fuck

Emma:

Yeah, it's hard enough being a fat person mm-hmm. without having to put up with the bullshit. So I really, empathize there. I think it's really shitty. And there was, when he was a kid he struggled to fit into blue jeans, which of course was trouser of choice for every kid. And Levi's had an advertising campaign that stated"Poor fat Marvin can't wear Levi's. so Meat Loaf never wore Levi, even when he lost a load of weight. He always maintained that he would never, ever buy Levi's jeans. So he'd wear Wrangler and anything else he could get his hands on, but never, ever Levi's and that's all part of why he wanted to get rid of Marvin.

Sam:

Okay. So what do we do, Emma? We've done it by accident, but we now know what we've done.

Emma:

Yeah. And as somebody who has experienced an awful lot of fat shaming, I don't know

Sam:

Yeah I think scale is Michael Lee Aday

Emma:

I think we should.

Sam:

Michael Lee a Day Yeah. from the scale is now Michael Lee Day.

Emma:

Good.

Sam:

Yes. That's the right thing to do. It is. I hadn't realized till we delved deeper into his biography that yeah. The connotations of the

Emma:

Because of the Marvin, we're admitting our

Sam:

That's right. That's what grown ups do.

Emma:

I've been working my way through bits of the autobiography, and I'm not gonna lie, it's a slog. It's not my favorite thing to read. But I've been trying to dip in and out of it. Meat Loaf was born on September the 27th, 1947 in Dallas, Texas to school teacher mum Wilma Hukel and former police officer dad Orvis Aday. Orvis had also served in World War II and he started drinking when he returned from war, became an alcoholic and a salesman.

Sam:

You've gotta fund your alcoholism somehow.

Emma:

Absolutely. Nice little fact here. His mum and her sister, along with two other women, formed a gospel quartet in their younger days called the Vo-di-o-do Girls. And Meat Loaf said that his mother had a really powerful voice and as a group they'd appear on local radio

Sam:

Cool pieces like the Carter family,

Emma:

Yeah, I guess so. They would've liked to have, taken it further and become stars. Mm-hmm. But the religious nature their father meant that was never gonna happen. But yeah I'm guessing Meat Loaf got his singing talents from his mum. So that's, I thought that was really nice. It's nice to put something nice in, isn't

Sam:

it? It's

Emma:

nice because the rest of

Sam:

things. Grim. Yeah.

Emma:

Grim.

Sam:

Speaking of grim,

Emma:

indeed, speaking of grim. His dad's alcoholism is a real focal point his childhood. His mother would drive around town looking for his dad when he was off on a bender'cause he wasn't a man to drink at home. He liked to go out and go missing for long periods of time. So age like eight or nine Meat Loaf would end up going into the bars to look for his dad on his mum's behalf. And he said,"I think it was at those moments that my career as an actor began, I remember very clearly copping an attitude as I was about to go into a bar. Brave as I appeared to be. I was absolutely terrified if I developed my acting skills anywhere it was there." So he'd go into bars to try and drag his drunk old dad home. That's awful. That's so sad. So sad. His mum, who I think was the sort of, kind light in his life died in 1967 when he was nineteen and in his autobiography describes running away to LA when she was ill then being sought out by the police when she died. they were looking could pass on the news. Yeah. Then he returned home to Texas. And this is all taken directly from his autobiography. One night, shortly after the funeral, I was sitting in my parents' house with Billy Slocum. Just hanging out at the dining room table. In walks my dad and he's drunk. Violent.'Get all these whores out of here,' he's screaming. Of course there's nobody in the house, but me and Billy. Billy got up. He could see my dad was out his mind. Under my breath, I said,'Billy, you better get out of here.' I jumped up. I went into my bedroom and shut the door."The next thing I know, my father's standing in the doorway with a butcher knife in his hand. His eyes are blank as if he'd been hypnotized. I knew he was very disturbed. So my first thought was,'oh my God, he's going to kill himself.' But when he walked towards me and raised the knife above his head, it took a split second for me to realize,'God, he's gonna kill me'. I backed up as he came towards me tripping and falling backward onto the bed. In a panic, I realized there was no way out. The bed was against the wall. He put both hands on the handle of the knife and brought it down. As I rolled to the end of the bed and dropped to the floor, I could hear the knife ripping through the bedding into the mattress. I looked up at him. There was no one there behind his eyes. Believe it or not. Dad was bigger than me and stronger. He could always throw me around. When I was about 12, he threw me through a screen door. He just picked me up and threw me right through. When he put the knife into that bed, he was really trying to kill me."To him, the screen door incident was just good, clean, fun. I crouched by the bed. It was a moment of pure terror... I was trapped. With some kind of crazy energy I just lunged at him. He stumbled into the dresser... We had this huge fight that ended up in the living room... he threw me across the living room, and I crashed into a lamp. I got up and he was still coming at me. I hit him in the face. He lost his balance, went tumbling back across a barrel type chair..."he didn't get up right away, and I just ran straight outta the house. Why he tried to kill me, I don't know. Maybe he was feeling guilty about my mother and I looked like her. As soon as I got out of the door, the full horror struck me. My own father had tried to kill me, not my father didn't love me. He actually wanted me dead. I went out the front door and never came back. I walked over to Billy's house and called my Aunt Mary and that was it. I never looked back."

Sam:

That's heavy stuff.Really heavy stuff. It's heavy. Welcome to the cheery fun Fun podcast. Oh yeah.

Emma:

That's gotta fuck you up,

Sam:

That's gotta fuck you up, but it is to Meat Loaf's credit. from all accounts, he is a very loving family man. Yes. And to have grown up in that sort of environment and been able to come out of it, deciding I'm gonna be an amazing dad and his girls are, speak particularly highly of him Yeah. As a father. So good on him for getting past that horrible start. It

Emma:

It is just horrific. and yeah, really sad. But you know, he went on to be a megastar.

Sam:

went, on to be a megastar. so fuck you here's one thing I wanna bring up, which is mentioned in the song.'Cause I've heard two versions of this, The song says his father gave him the nickname Meat Loaf Meat has also said that he was given the nickname Loaf by a high school football coach.

Emma:

I've got this somewhere. Hang on a so again, this is from his autobiography, which is proving useful for the first time.

Sam:

Do you know? Yes. That was another thought I had actually, gosh, we've skimmed over his autobiography on just about everything. He's written some heartfelt stuff about his early life and the rest of it's just like, oh the, the guitarist did a load of drugs. And have an no d fuck him.

Emma:

Yes. This bit of the autobiography is genuinely quite interesting and poignant at times. I've told a lot of stories about how I got the About how football coaches and other kids called me that. How I made a bet with some kid in high school that I would let my head get run over by a Volkswagen. And after I'd done it, this kid said,' you're as dumb as a hunk of Meat Loaf'. Or there's the one about the coach who said,'get off my football team, you, big hunk of Meat Loaf.' All that actually did happen, but they didn't come up with the name. Leave it to my dad to do that. He called me Meat Loaf almost from the time my mother brought me home.

Sam:

Well, what's an unpleasant thing to call your own ch... The more I hear about this dad, the less I like him. Emma,

Emma:

I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of all

Sam:

of father a day. Orvis I have something funny to say. Run over by a Volkswagen. Oh, his friend bet him that he couldn't get his head run over by a Volkswagen. And he went, yeah, all right.

Emma:

This is a guy that had at least 17 concussions throughout his life

Sam:

and a Volkswagen on his head. Apparently.

Emma:

Maybe they were lighter back then. I can't even imagine it

Sam:

because it's impossible. Emma.

Emma:

Yeah, I like We know that Meat Loaf and Jim both talk a load of

Sam:

bullshit There's a lot of self mythologizing in all of this. I'm taking everything about his relationship with his father at face value. But you did not get your head run over by any form of Volkswagen, Meat

Emma:

I can't help but imagine it being a Beetle

Sam:

Yeah, me too.

Emma:

I think it's time we rate this one.

Sam:

Is it?

Emma:

Cool. Okay.

Sam:

We've been on a journey.

Emma:

We have.

Sam:

It's not really Meat Loaf's best work. It's interesting that we've learned a bit about his Texan roots and the tragic backstory, but it doesn't make the song any better, does it?

Emma:

Well, the song doesn't really touch on the backstory.

Sam:

No. The monologue that he wedged in the middle does. But vaguely. So yeah. Let's, dust off our brand spanking new Meat Loaf song rating scale, which runs from Michael Lee Aday at the top down to Michael Lee Okay in the middle, all the down to Michael Lee No Way at the bottom. Emma, what is this? It's an Okay. It's an Okay. Isn't, it's fine. It's not offensive. No, it's just a, it's just, It's a genre transposed song, which is all right, but works better in the hands of a stage musical about a queer

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

This is a Michael Lee Okay. It's all right. It's

Emma:

So Sam, what have you brought?

Sam:

I've brought Objects In the Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are from the album Bat Out of Hell II. This was a Jim Steinman. It does have a music video, I'm sorry to tell you, it's another music video directed by Michael Bay.

Emma:

Oh,

Sam:

but that said, we should watch it anyway, Emma. So listeners, if you do, the video is quite instructive in some of the stuff I'm gonna talk about. So if you can bear to watch 10 minutes of Michael Bay, please do otherwise find it on YouTubes or Spotifys or written on the subway wall. That's a Simon and Garfunkel See you all in a few minutes.

Soundtrack:

When the sun descended and the night arose, I heard my father cursing. Everyone knows he was dangerous and drunk. Defeated and corroded by failure and envy and hate.

Sam:

So that was, Objects In The Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are from the album Bat Out of Hell II. Emma. I know we both love it, but Oh yeah. Tell us what you think.

Emma:

What a banger.

Sam:

Well, it's brilliant. It's not a banger

Emma:

No, it's not a banger. You gonna struggle to dance to that one aren't you? If you're not a psychopath.

Sam:

Yes.

Emma:

It's a brilliant song. It's a classic Jim.

Sam:

Is it a classic

Emma:

Well, there are several acts. Got a lot of drama to It

Sam:

It plays with a common phrase.

Emma:

Yes. Some banging piano.

Sam:

there is some banging piano. Bill Payne on the piano. Okay. I think that might be a first for Bill Payne. A first shout out for Bill on this podcast. And sorry Bill, we don't have time to learn who you are today. I promise. We'll check in another time. But Jim definitely will have written that piano part. he is a marvelous pianist as we know. Yes. But. It's unusually retrospective for Jim. most of his songs, pretty much all of his songs bar this one are about living in the moment and living today while you are young. Let's go party, et cetera. So, there are very few songs about, particularly from men, about past trauma and its impact on your current life. And this is one of them. And it's really good. It

Emma:

is really good. That middle section so powerful, and heartbreaking.

Sam:

Yeah. shall I run through for people who couldn't be bothered to listen? It's okay. I don't

Emma:

mind.

Sam:

This is released April of 1984. This was the third single from the album Bat out of Hell II. It got to number 38 in the US and number 26 in the UK. Reviews mostly positive. I will point out that Q Magazine called a"hopeless near Springsteen parody." Dick's,

Emma:

yeah unnecessary.

Sam:

I mean the review is generally positive about the album as a whole, but it's, even, without knowing the backstory, which we will get into on the face of it, I don't think it comes across as parody. It just comes across as a sad. Story to be singing about. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Spin Magazine,"a traumatized family chiller". People said this was the album's haunting centerpiece."Meat Loaf, who's now 46 sings chillingly of how the ghosts of youth pursue you, but remain just out of reach when you look over your shoulder". And the BBC said this was a song about"a melancholy middle-aged man reminiscing about his youth. In many ways, uncomfortably close home, dealing as it does with episodes uncannily, similar to events in his own life" and that is the first bit I will just jump on. Yeah. So I, and you, and most of the world has assumed that this has been written specifically about Meat Loaf's life. Meat Loaf tends to deny that. Right. Jim hasn't commented either way that I could find Meat Loaf said in an interview with the New Zealand magazine Investigate. so the question was, is this based on your life? Not a prayer, I wouldn't allow it. That's like, if an artist painted a picture of a place he'd never seen before, that he couldn't bring any truth to that because he has no point of reference. No, he does have a point of reference. His truth is the point of references and that's what the point of reference is. That's what any kind of artist endeavour should have is always finding the truth." Now you might ask Emma,"what?" And I agree, but I think we have to focus on the first chunk of that sentence. It's like if an artist painted a picture of a place he'd never seen. I think we're supposed to take away from this, that it isn't about Meat Loaf's life, but it is perhaps inspired by Yeah. Or about, sadly, a lot of people will have had similar lives And they're singing for all those I do wonder, particularly in that interview, if Meat Loaf being a bit too defensive. I've seen a quite a few really lovely live performances He always skips out the verse about his dad.

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

Which is interesting. And then the video itself is filmed in Texas. Which was a choice, I guess. Yeah. So it's not about Meat Loaf's life, but it is about, but it's relevant. Yes, exactly. It's relevant. It's kicking up the kind of feelings Yeah. We have no evidence either way. If after he walked out on his dad, Meat Loaf went and banged a hot chick

Emma:

a car, In a car

Sam:

in a car

Emma:

I did make a note on that little section particularly the video. So when he said it was a Michael Bay I did wonder if there were gonna be explosions and he didn't let me down. Tick. They really made the most of that one explosion.

Sam:

Yes.

Emma:

I'm sure as many times from as many angles as possible. But also I'm really glad that young Meat Loaf and his lady managed to find somewhere dry to park that convertible car before they started shagging.'cause it was raining quite heavily in the background.

Sam:

Yeah. But they had just had a hose pipe fight, so, you know, they weren't bothered about that. It is a three act structure. The first act is about the singer's childhood friend Kenny who, dies tragically.

Emma:

I was very surprised. Because I've not seen the video before until today, I have always imagined that to be a car crash.

Sam:

of course you did, Emma.'Cause you are not insane.

Emma:

So the fact that it was like a crop duster plane.

Sam:

Did you see who Kenny's dad was played by? No, that was Robert Patrick. AKA, the T 1000.

Emma:

Oh my God. Amazing

Sam:

Little cameo for Robert there. And then the second verse is covering the stuff we've already talked about an abusive father. And then verse three is a. relationship with a sexy lady who brings some sort of hope into the young man's life and she disappears and he goes out into the world and there's the haunting refrain that objects in the rear view may appear closer than they are. And if life is just a highway,

Emma:

the soul is just a

Sam:

which is when written down utter horse shit Absolute shites.

Emma:

But it's shite of the highest Jim level,

Sam:

It is, isn't it? Somehow when Jim writes that and delivers it through Meat Loaf, you believe

Emma:

it. Oh god. It tears that middle verse really gets me. Really

Sam:

yeah. Music journalist, Mick Wall, we're gonna hear a lot from Mick Wall, this series. Okay. He says"perhaps the most sober and reflective song Steinman has ever written."

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

argument here.

Emma:

It's yeah, it's no Surf's Up is it?

Sam:

Well, The words the most could be replaced with the

Emma:

only Yes.

Sam:

Wall also does point out this song is about two best friends who lose each other tragically. And given this is, in their reunion album. Fair point on that. Yeah. Yeah. The Anne Boleyn to his Henry the Eighth. In Jim's own words,"the hardest song to write and get across was the song Objects in the Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are. It was really gruesomely hard to write. In fact, it was the last song I wrote for the record, which was basically done. The record label just wanted to stop."They wanted to put it out, and I insisted I really wanted to write another song," classic Jim,"and that was a really emotional song to write. It's a very passionate song. It's really, I think, maybe the most passionate one on the record. I'm really proud of it because that's really one that goes over the top in the sense that it's got images, it has religious imagery of resurrection, it's got images of fertility and rebirth. It has really good sexual images. Images of cars, which I always like." You had to ruin it. Jim,

Emma:

why does he always ruin it?

Sam:

of course this song has done the rounds, it was in the Bat out of Hell musical. Where it gets utterly ruined because the three verses get split among different singers who are each reminiscing about their pasts. So two of them sing about horrible dark pasts with dead friends and abusive fathers. And one of'em comes in and goes, I boned a girl.

Emma:

That was a high point in the musical, wasn't it?

Sam:

But it's also appeared in other musicals, Emma. Yes. to Jim's house of recycling. Some of the melody you might have noticed is recycled from Surf's Up. then Jim later reuses the tune on the Tanz der Vampire musical. The original German song was called Die Unstillbare Gier or the Unquenchable Greed.

Emma:

Crikey, that sounds like

Sam:

Have a listen. that was Die Unstillbare Gier

Emma:

And what is that about?

Sam:

So it's a vampire. He's using the same structure, so it's a vampire reminiscing about different times in his past. Okay. Across hundreds of years. I quite like what he does with it. He's remembering different women over the centuries that he's corrupted and ruined because of his unquenchable vampire greed. Okay. The singer on that recording's brilliant. He's got a heck of a voice on him and it's a really operatic piece becomes a massively operatic piece. But then when the musical translated to the US in English the song title became Confessions of a Vampire

Emma:

Okay.

Soundtrack:

She never knew my soul was cursed for good. I fought to overcome my thirst, I thought I could, but when I kissed her lips then I had no control. And the furies all ran wild..

Sam:

I wanna come back Tanz der Vampire in the future. Jim didn't do the lyrics in the original German but I suspect he had more of a hand in the translation into English, which was famously unsuccessful. But yeah, Jim goes and takes this very relatable, very heartbreaking song and shoves it in his vampire musical.

Emma:

I imagine Jim taking like his masterpieces regularly and running them through his Vampire machine.

Sam:

My Vampire machine. Vampire from Ghost Wars, season two. I'm gonna send you a link. this is the cover art to the single which I would like you to look at. We've just been talking about a very moving heartbreaking song about real trauma and real pain. And this is the art they chose to use to sell it.

Emma:

Why

Sam:

Emma, tell the listeners what you're looking at there.

Emma:

So what I'm looking at here is some terrible nineties montage art. it's all sort of shades of green and black. On the right hand side, there seems to be a hooded figure showing its skeletal ribcage off.

Sam:

That's Death flashing you, isn't it? Death Death is literally holding up his shirt, showing off his

Emma:

nail polish on.

Sam:

Yeah, that looks to be red nail. Is it, blood?

Emma:

Maybe. And then there's some sort of beast at a window.

Sam:

There's a monster at a window, and there's another monster down at Death's feet. Bit weird.

Emma:

bold

Sam:

Yeah. That was by the artist Michael Wheelan, who also did the cover out to the album.

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

Which we've not yet discussed, but you know, you've all seen it.

Emma:

Yeah,

Sam:

I guess they paid Michael Wheelan for three pieces of art and they're using three pieces of art.

Emma:

goddammit. Doesn't fit with the song at all, but also

Sam:

very strange.

Emma:

Wow. Thank you for sharing that little

Sam:

You're welcome. Emma, would you like a quiz?

Emma:

Yes. She said, wondering what this season's

Sam:

a quiz, isn't it? It's a quiz.

Emma:

Wonder what this series's torture's going to be

Sam:

Here's three facts. Which of them is true? This song holds the record for longest song title without any brackets to ever appear in the UK top 40. Okay. B. This song was bumped from its highest point in the charts by Babe by Take That C. famous car addict, farmer(for tax avoidance purposes) Jeremy Clarkson unexpectedly has a bit part in the video for

Emma:

I think the truth is the length of the song title

Sam:

One nil to you. Yes.

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

This is the longest song title that doesn't have Yeah. That ever appears in the UK. Top 40. The longest song title with brackets is a song by the Faces slash Rod Stewart in 1974. And it's called, You Can Make Me Dance, Sing or Anything open brackets, even Take the Dog for a Walk. Mend a Fuse, fold Away the Ironing Board or any other Domestic Shortcomings close brackets.

Emma:

Wow.

Sam:

Any thoughts on what the other two might have been about Emma?

Emma:

Not a clue. Come on. Okay.

Sam:

The song was bumped from its highest point in the charts by Babe by Take That. So that's not true of this song. But it is true of the song Mr. Blobby performed by novelty children's character, Mr. Blobby. Okay. From the album Mr. Blobby.

Emma:

Yep.

Sam:

Yeah. However, Mr. Blobby himself did shift, I'd Do Anything for Love from the top.

Emma:

Yes he did. I remember this happening. And being mortified.

Sam:

Your two favorite acts, battling. and Jeremy Clarkson was in the Mr. Blobby video. Of course

Emma:

he

Sam:

was. Yeah.

Emma:

Is it gonna be Mr. Blobby then?

Sam:

I regret to tell you it's the Mr. Blobby single this time.

Emma:

Oh no.

Sam:

It's funny how he makes us understand

Emma:

his influence has spread throughout the land.

Sam:

Indeed. Sorry, Americans.

Emma:

Yeah. Americans. Look that one up.

Sam:

Or indeed, British people under the age of 38. What would you like to hear what the people of the internet think?. As you might imagine, this video has so many comments of people remembering childhood traumas and long lost loved ones and sharing grief. Yeah. And almost all of the replies are people offering solace to their fellow man across the internet, which is wonderful. It's wonderful. They're all reaching out hand across time

Emma:

and space. I'm sensing a however,

Sam:

Luckily, though there are some people who've really let the side down. So let's start with this comment is fine. It's from ZA tennis fan, Bat Out of Hell. Quite simply, one of the greatest albums of all time. There is not one weak track on that record. It is a work of the most sublime genius from beginning to end. Reply from at TheFonzKiss. This isn't even from that

Emma:

album noob.. Brilliant. No.

Sam:

And then in the midst of all the people reminiscing about their lost loves at BalooUriza said the airport in question here has the FAA ID of three XS zero if you want to see it.

Emma:

Nerd, I like that you did your best nerd voice

Sam:

well. Thank

Emma:

you,

Sam:

Emma. I have seen three different airports on

Emma:

this

Sam:

and then I do have some Meat Loaf memories scattered around. Meat Loaf memories. just reminded me that one of the reasons I think we both like Objects in the Rear View Mirror is'cause we can actually sing it in our registers.

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

Doesn't, a lot of rage to it compared to most

Emma:

Steinman Loaf Yeah. We could belt this one out really

Sam:

Yeah. Anyway at RailYardProductions, my wife and I met him on his bus. He came up from the back wearing a pink bunny pajamas, like the ones in A Christmas Story, rest in peace Meat. It's a long time since I've seen a Christmas Story. Do you remember the pink bunny pajamas?

Emma:

I don't, but I love the idea of Especially on Meat Loaf

Sam:

in my head. I've just added some bunny slippers as well. Yes, of course. Yeah. And at Mark Richie 49 68, I met him in Glasgow about 94, when I was in school. He had a concert on. My wee bro banged a window in the SECC foyer and he opened the blinds and tried to talk to us through the glass. Then a crowd gathered and ruined it. Security dragged him off."

Emma:

Aw,

Sam:

Yeah. I like dragged him off though.

Emma:

It dragged him

Sam:

off.

Emma:

not the fans. It's not the crowd. Him.

Sam:

the easiest way to solve this problem

Emma:

to remove Meat Loaf from the

Sam:

There you go a couple of lovely Meat Loaf memories, A few facts

Emma:

They're nice.

Sam:

They're nice. It's time to rate this song. It is this is a Jim Steinman written song. So we are breaking out the Jim Steinman scale for the first time this series, as though we need the end of it. But we start at the top with Jim Steinman In the middle we go for Jim Fineman and all the way down at the bottom, it's a Jim Declineman. Emma, what's this?

Emma:

It's probably just a Jim Fineman. I'm kidding. It's

Sam:

a Jim Steinman, but in a sadder, more melancholy tone of voice.

Emma:

Yes. It's a Jim Steinman. A Jim Steinman.

Sam:

Jim Steinman. Jim It's a Jim Steinman. It is a Jim, no, not that's my other podcast.

Emma:

Good.

Sam:

So that was our songs this episode.

Emma:

We're

Sam:

back listeners. I hope to edit it down, but I think we'll both agree, it's been a bit of a slog getting back into game match.

Emma:

Fuck, we can't even talk about how shit we are

Sam:

that one.

Emma:

that

Sam:

but I'm really glad we're back doing this. Yes, it's nice It's lovely, isn't it? If you had opinions on those songs, if you'd like to disagree with our ratings ratings and how dare you, you can drop us an email, chat We have quite a few emails that we've been accruing lately we didn't do emails for the past couple of episodes, so shall we dive in Emma? Yeah.

Emma:

that's

Sam:

RL Gray, lovely. RL got in touch about Surf's Up slash Masculine a couple of episodes ago. I adore Surf's Up. It is gorgeous and huge and dumb horny, but what else do you want from a Steinman song? And Masculine is like that, but without the gorgeous, I still think it's fun, though. It works well in a workout mix. I can see Masculine being in a workout mix.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

Right after Ravishing by Bonnie Tyler.

Emma:

Oh god. This, not my workout mix, obviously.

Sam:

You can't have two sexy a workout mix. Thinking about it

Emma:

do you know what has worked it's way into my, I say workout mix. It's my swimming Do you wanna know what's worked its way in there?

Sam:

Tell us Emma

Emma:

California Isn't Big Enough

Sam:

Yeah. You're playing that all the time now. I love

Emma:

I

Sam:

it. That's become your song for closing out gigs to empty the room.

Emma:

Quite good job.

Sam:

Chris Matts my friends have absolutely chastised me for being a regular contributor to a Meat Loaf podcast, but I don't care what they say'cause I know I'm cool."

Emma:

You should hear what our friends have

Sam:

to say

Emma:

about it

Sam:

mostly. Yeah. I've not listened. The perfect song for you guys to cover is One more Kiss from Blind Before I Stop. There are so many things happening in this song," I don't know it yet. Um, Do I stick it on the list? Thank you, Chris. And if you've got a song you'd like us to cover, do drop us a line chatoutofhell@gmail.com. And then this is David Gillespie who wrote. All right again, fellow young people". And David is the one who recommended Mick Wall's book Like A Bat Out of Hell. Okay Um, so to quote David Mick is a legendary rock writer whose career has spanned from the late 1970s until the present day and was a colleague and flatmate of writer Sandy Robertson, whose reviews you have regularly quoted. Mick managed to piss off Axl Rose enough to be included in the lyrics to the song, Get In The Ring off Use Your Illusion 2. The book is rife with stories about both Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman, and the Pandora's Box chapter is a particular highlight". Boom. that will be my go-to reference. So yeah, thank you Dave. And then we have an email from Charlie Etheridge Nunn, whose content I won't reveal, but it does pertain to our choices next time. Emma, what songs are we bringing next time?

Emma:

So I'm gonna bring a time for Heroes, which was the theme from the 1987 Special Olympics that Meat Loaf sang

Sam:

Lovely. And because it's a hero themed episode next time, Emma has kindly allowed me to go back to Bonnie Tyler. So I'll be bringing Holding out for a Hero from 1984 and we are all gonna have an amazing time. Oh yes. Let us know your opinions on those. chatoutofhell@gmail.com If you could keep giving us five stars on your podcast listening app of choice, that would be lovely. Recommend us generally to your friends. If you're on a date or you've just joined a five a side football team, tell everybody about us. Let us know your general Meat Loaf thoughts and anecdotes. Did you see Meat Loaf playing Toe Jam and Earl on the Sega Mega Drive or Sega Genesis to Americans? Let us know. chatoutofhell@gmail.com Emma, I think that's all of the everything now. Lovely. Well, that's all of my everything too. We'll see you all again in two more weeks' time for another Chat Out of Hell. Bye.

Emma:

bye.