Chat out of Hell

Episode 5.2 - A Time For Heroes | Holding Out For a Hero

• Emma Crossland & Sam Wilkinson • Season 5 • Episode 2

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Continuing the theme of doing themes, this episode we take a look at two rockin' songs about heroes. And somehow made it through the whole thing without once talking about Cadbury's Heroes. Well done us. But we did discuss the big questions, questions like:

- What on earth was going on at Marvel comics in the late 80s?

- What's gone wrong with nerds lately?

- Is it wise to dance on the edge of the Grand Canyon when you're that hungover?

PLUS another episode of Bonnie Tyler Explains Pop Culture, a brief chat about early 2000s electric ethereal nonsense duo Frou Frou and Emma learns what Bardcore is then regrets it.


Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com, find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Chat out of Hell and don't forget to use the hashtag #DearA1saucewedontneedyoursaucenowwevegotourown


Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy.Music extracts on this episode:
A Time For Heroes by Meat Loaf, Tangerine Dream and Brian May (1987)

Holding out for a Hero by Bonnie Tyler from the Footloose Soundtrack (1984)

Holding out for a Hero by Jennifer Saunders from the Shrek 2 Soundtrack (2004)

Holding out for a Hero by Frou Frou from the Shrek 2 Soundtrack (2004)

Holding out for a Hero by Nothing But Thieves (2015)

Send us a text

Emma:

What is this?

Sam:

This is Chat Out of Hell, one of the only fortnightly podcasts about the works of Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman alongside Chatadise by the Dashboard Chat, Two out of Three Ain't Chat, and I'd Do Anything for Love, But I Won't Do Chat Bye listeners.

Emma:

Oh wow.

Sam:

Who is Meat Loaf?

Emma:

Meat Loaf was an actor and musician who, during an appearance at the Reading Festival in 1988, was hit by a two litre cider bottle that now contained piss.

Sam:

And then what happened?

Emma:

That was the year that the organizers of the festival decided to broaden the lineup from just heavy rock to other softer options and even some indie stuff. Apparently Bonnie Tyler had been on earlier also got bottled, but stood proud, like the angry Welshwoman that she is. But Meat Loaf did leave the stage.

Sam:

Meat Loaf retreated after being exposed to only two litres of

Emma:

What I love more than anything is that Reading really changed over the years. I went to Reading in the mid two thousands and I saw Belle and Sebastian there.

Sam:

Do you not remember? Daphne and Celeste got bottled in about 1998.

Emma:

I think it was about 2000 because I think it was the year before I started going to Leeds.

Sam:

Anyway, this is still the intro bit. Yes

Emma:

Who's Jim Steinman?

Sam:

Jim Steinman is a hero. He's the streetwise Hercules who fights the rising odds just as long as he doesn't have to drive to get there. Who are we?

Emma:

Ah, we are comedians Emma Crossland and Sam Wilkinson. And we're the heroes you deserve, but not the ones you need right now.

Sam:

Welcome to Chat Out of Hell. Bow now now now.

Emma:

Ding.

Sam:

You all right?

Emma:

Not bad. Thank you. How are you?

Sam:

Exhausted?

Emma:

Busy weekend.

Sam:

Busy. Old weekend

Emma:

Tedious life

Sam:

Tedious life things. Yeah. I mean, I already explained it to you before we started the recording. I'm not doing it again.

Emma:

Yeah. Cause these people listening give zero fucks your life admin.

Sam:

They don't give a shit. But Yeah. I'm a bit tired. And that's why I need some uplifting songs about heroes

Emma:

Well, you're in the right place because we've both brought songs about heroes sort of

Sam:

Well they are, they're they're about here, aren't they?

Emma:

Yeah. Yeah. They are.

Sam:

Is yours about drugs?

Emma:

Oh, it's not that interesting.

Sam:

Okay. This is Chat Out of Hell, the fortnightly podcast where we both bring a Meat Loaf or Jim Steinman song to our music book club to discuss, analyze, make gentle jokes about, and then rate on a simple three point rating scale. Right? That's the deal. doing. Get on board or get out.

Emma:

You've had quite a long car journey today, haven't you, Sam?

Sam:

Go on, hop it. I don't want you. Okay, so now they've all gone. Emma, what song did you bring this time?

Emma:

brought a time for Heroes which came out in 1987 and was the theme song for the Special Olympics that year. Sam, what have you brought?

Sam:

I've brought Holding Out for a Hero by Bonnie Tyler,

Emma:

of course

Sam:

so we're gonna listen to your song first, Emma, right?

Emma:

Yes, that's right. We thought we'd get it outta the way,

Sam:

but in a cool way. Yes. Yes. In a cool way. So listeners, go away, find your YouTubes or your Spotifys or your,

Emma:

the copy that you sent away for off the back of a magazine,

Sam:

the copy that you sent away for off the back of a magazine. Hashtag spoilers. We are gonna listen to the entirety of the song right now if you can't bear to, here's a very short clip. See you all very soon.

Emma:

So that was a Time for Heroes. Came out in July, 1987. during what I think we can affectionately call Meat Loaf's wilderness years.

Sam:

Can we, should we,

Emma:

It's what they are.

Sam:

Okay.

Emma:

That was a theme song for the Special Olympics held that year. Why did they choose Meat Loaf to do the theme song

Sam:

know.

Emma:

I can't find anything out about that.

Sam:

I have several questions, probably none of which you have the answer I assume the Special Olympics are actually international, but you don't really hear about them over here. They're not.

Emma:

So the Special Olympics World Games started in the sixties. And originally it was just held in the US to start with, they had two nations

Sam:

US and Canada,

Emma:

since then it, it's come on considerably. for the first sort of 10 games that held every four-ish years was always in the US but in 2003, they held it in Ireland. 2007. It was in China. 2011, Greece. Back to the US in 2015 United Arab Emirates in 2019. And the most recent one in 2023 was in Germany. And the next one in 2027 will be in Chile. And over that time, the number of competing countries has,

Sam:

so yeah. What that's proven there is not that the Special Olympics isn't international, it's that I'm very ignorant.

Emma:

Well, it's one that I hadn't heard of before, and for a moment I wondered if it was one of those horrible things that Americans sometimes do of renaming things.

Sam:

Oh, you thought it was the Paralympics

Emma:

thought it was a badly labeled Paralympics. Oh, I see. Yeah.

Sam:

I see.

Emma:

But no, this is an entirely different thing. It is recognized by the international Olympic Committee.

Sam:

you only hear about it over here in often unkind jokes in sitcoms and stuff.

Emma:

There's now 190

Sam:

Fair

Emma:

it's a significant

Sam:

event. But to go back to your other question, why Meat Loaf? Why not

Emma:

He was probably very

Sam:

was

Emma:

free

Sam:

Well, it wasn't just Meat Loaf though, was it?

Emma:

No. It wasn't just Meat Loaf.'Cause part the way through there is quite the guitar solo,

Sam:

sweet guitar solo, which is

Emma:

by our

Sam:

That's right. Lovely friend. He doesn't know he's our friend,

Emma:

he is our friend., friend. Any friend of the badgers is a friend of

Sam:

Brian May and Tangerine Dream are also credited.

Emma:

Yes. They produced the instrumental version that was used throughout the

Sam:

Okay. So This wasn't just like a a fundraising single. Was it a fundraising thing or was it just like the cool theme tune for bringing on the, because Emma, I have to say I was a bit cynical going in, but it is quite a banger for that sort of event. It's a cool, like, yeah, we're all gonna be awesome at what we're doing in a very 1980s way. You could see it on a sporting competition or on a cartoon about kids who team up to defeat an evil pollution company.

Emma:

All I can really tell is that this was the official theme song and theme music of the 1987 International Summer Special Olympics games. And the proceeds for the record benefits the International Summer special. Okay.

Sam:

Yeah. So it was a fundraising single as well as a, as well as a cool

Emma:

as well as a

Sam:

motivational

Emma:

Yeah. The 1987 Special Olympics held in South Bend, Indiana.

Sam:

Not a town I'm familiar with. I'm sure it's lovely.

Emma:

At the University of Notre Dame and there were over 4,000 athletes from 70 countries at that stage it was quite a

Sam:

quite a big event, I do just wanna correct you on behalf of Americans, Notre Dame.

Emma:

Notre Dame. Sorry, Notre Dame. Sorry. Sorry, Americans. Sorry.

Sam:

Americans.

Emma:

It was written by three people, a guy called John Lyons, who was an American multi-instrumentalist songwriter and producer from Indiana, who often worked under the alias of Nathan Crow. I can find as much about Nathan Crow as I can about John Lyons, and that is it, a

Sam:

it, a very successful alias.

Emma:

A guy called Rick Emmett who was a guitarist and vocalist in the rock band Triumph. And a guy called M Scott Sotebeer. Who I can find absolutely nothing about.

Sam:

Okay. So this song is a wealth of information then. Yeah. Yeah.

Emma:

There's been so

Sam:

So what's our angle, Emma?

Emma:

Well, we were sent a request to cover this by Charlie Etheridge Nunn because Charlie, the big nerd, has been doing some research on our behalf has plundered some amazing stuff. This single was advertised on the back of comic books with what I can only describe as one of the worst cartoon strips I've ever seen. Sam, would you be able to put a link to this Yeah. Yes, of course. Yeah,

Sam:

I'll share it. I might even make it the album art for this particular episode.

Emma:

It comes with a beautiful article which I will dip We'll

Sam:

a link to that in the show notes

Emma:

The advert raises more questions than answers. And there are already so many questions about this song.

Sam:

It's 1987. I'm a kid. I've just finished reading Spider-Man Uhhuh, and on the back page of my Spider-Man comic,

Emma:

it says,"Meat Loaf: humongous rockstar of the universe" Heroes Helping Heroes. A couple of things there.

Sam:

I have a question. Go on. Are we talking humongous physically or in a. metaphorical context. for the size of his rock

Emma:

all I can really say is question mark. I don't think this was at the height of his appeal or indeed his weight. So the answer

Sam:

was it the height of his cocaine habit?

Emma:

I can't find anything about it in his autobiography, Uhhuh, which is not a surprise. No, because he doesn't really comment about any of these songs that he's been involved in. Just the financial battles

Sam:

That's his true art.

Emma:

Oh, wow. The first panel is of a man that is so unlike Meat Loaf, that on the guitar he is holding, they've had to write the word Meat Loaf.

Sam:

A Meat Loaf wasn't even a guitarist.

Emma:

Meat Loaf wasn't a guitarist. He's wearing a red jacket that he never wore, has a chin that he never had. it's just bizarre. And while he is on stage also, it looks like the guitar is like embedded in his torso from the angle that he is

Sam:

holding. Yes. It's sticking out. It's such an odd angle.

Emma:

I've never seen anybody hold and play a guitar like that. But while he's performing, he's busy thinking when you doing important things, you get distracted. When I'm driving, I think about Yeah. Other things. And obviously, of course the famous one is, when you are having bad sex and you're writing shopping lists in your head while it

Sam:

Sure. Or when you're doing a podcast and you're just thinking about what you are gonna say next, rather than listening to the other person.

Emma:

I dunno what you could possibly mean. So Meat Loaf does this while he is performing, so, he's busy performing to a massive auditorium of people. And he's thinking"special Olympians are the real heroes. I'm gonna give them everything I've got."

Sam:

are we to infer from this that he's playing to a crowd of special Olympians?

Emma:

He doesn't really specify.'cause the next frame he says out loud."But who's gonna help me?" Presumably to a baffled audience

Sam:

because we can't hear inside your head, Meat Loaf.

Emma:

But next it's a panel of superheroes. I think it's the Marvel. It's

Sam:

load of Marvel superheroes. Yeah. Marvel

Emma:

And they'll shout out, we'll help Meat Loaf But how there's also like some kids thrown in there just for good measure.

Sam:

I think just to head off any emails. I think those kids might be kids from the Marvel universe I don't, just don't tell us. Okay.

Emma:

Yeah. Sorry. Nerds, I'm not interested.

Sam:

That's Emma Crossland calling you a nerd Emma Crossland thinks you are a nerd. It's, you are a nerd. Do email about that, won't you?

Emma:

Oh wow. I'm gonna get hate mail.

Sam:

Just corrections. I would say uhhuh,

Emma:

and Meat Loaf answers their question with another weird drawing of himself with a nose that I've never seen a human have. It's so pointy. It looks like something that you find in a cartoon of an evil goblin in fairytale.

Sam:

a very goblin nose, isn't it?

Emma:

that. And he just says, by returning this coupon today and pointing to the coupon that you can fill in to order a copy of the single and all of it's so badly done. In the panel with all the superheroes The Hulk is grey. One of the people on Reddit said Ooh, grey Hulk in the eighties.'Cause I do understand that and somebody replied with Hulk was originally grey but turned green because green ink was cheaper. Whatever the writer wants the Hulk to be a color. grey, green, red, blue, they do it. And then somebody else called Big Hey Zeus replied with one of my favorite things I've read on the internet in a long time. He's actually a mood ring.

Sam:

Take that biggest entertainment franchise in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Crossland's coming for you.

Emma:

Well, via the people on

Sam:

Reddit via some other pe Yeah. But we are broadcasting them now to a much bigger audience. What amazes and horrifies me in equal parts about this, and I'm not well versed in 1980s American comics, but the fact that the Marvel superheroes appear in this comic implies it's not just an advert that somebody sold to Marvel and said, we'll pay you to put this on the back of your comic. They went, is it all right if we get my. Mate, Joe, to draw all your characters old Thumbless. Joe, can he draw your characters and put them on the back of your

Emma:

Oh. Joey thumbs.

Sam:

Joey, no thumbs. Do we know the artist?

Emma:

I do not. Okay.

Sam:

I'm assuming nobody does because it would be all over the internet if it was. This is a sort of multi-stage process that started with let's Get Meat Loaf to do our theme tune. That went on to become, okay. But how do we advertise our theme tune? a Marvel. They have heroes and Meat Loaf is singing about heroes.

Emma:

You can see where the dots have been joined. but it doesn't make a coherent shape.

Sam:

Joe produced this and gave it to Meat Loaf, who went, yeah, sure. That's me. I assume he's, that this is his image rights that he's controlling. Is

Emma:

he so coked up that he thinks that's what he looks like at

Sam:

this point? Maybe.

Emma:

Maybe. Who knows?

Sam:

There's something I've just spotted at frame two where Meat Loaf is holding his guitar up saying,"who's gonna help me?" Yeah. He looks he's in his dressing gown That That it looks like he's just got out of bed.

Emma:

Yep.

Sam:

Oh who's gonna help me?

Emma:

That is no outfit that he ever wore on stage.

Sam:

Yeah. it's quite a nice polo neck, I think with a red

Emma:

red sweaty for a rock gig

Sam:

very sweaty for a rock gig. Yeah. Cripes. And he was a sweaty man at the best of times. he was. That's why he wore a lot of loose lineny shirts. Mm-hmm. Thumbless Joe. Look at some reference photos.

Emma:

Meat Loaf wrote nothing about this in his own autobiography, but now we have the extra resource of Mick Wall's Like a Bat out of Hell. During this time there was only one new Meat Loaf track released US only single a Time for Heroes."The official theme tune to the 1987 Special Olympics World Games... sung by Meat with Queen guitarist Brian May, playing lead, there was a concurrent instrumental recording by Tangerine Dream of the same track on the B side."It was precisely the kind of thing guaranteed to muddle the thinking on Meat Loaf in America, still further. It was a great cause, a wonderful event and a terribly cliche song."

Sam:

Can't argue with any of that.

Emma:

true,

Sam:

about a cliche when we're writing about Meat Loaf or Jim Steinman.

Emma:

If you look at the lyrics and also if you listen to the music, it has got that this is an uplifting generic

Sam:

it's uplifting. Generic eighties rock song.

Emma:

The lyrics are all about changing the world and working hard and being brave and all of that shit.

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

Which is lovely.

Sam:

It's the sort of thing we need, isn't it?

Emma:

Probably

Sam:

when I sit down at my desk tomorrow to start work. I'm gonna listen to a Time for Heroes. Are you? No, I'm probably gonna listen to Radio Four. You seem quite down on this song. I Okay.

Emma:

It's It's all right. I've not really fallen for It,

Sam:

Okay. It,

Emma:

it, it doesn't really do much for me. Perhaps it's because I'm a horrible, cynical old witch. just doesn't really do anything for me. I think it's a bit hamfisted.

Sam:

That's why I like it. It could be the theme to, it could be the theme to the raccoons

Emma:

dare dish the theme, tune to the raccoons. I'm not,

Sam:

not, but objectively speaking, that is a dog shit song.

Emma:

I've really enjoyed being part of the podcast. However now it's time to

Sam:

We've just watched a lovely cartoon about forest animals fighting a weird pink, big nose guy, not even fighting, just, mildly being inconvenienced by him. Great cartoon. Lovely. And then we get this completely left field Run With us

Emma:

Perhaps if I'd heard Time for Heroes when it came out. Oh, just when it came

Sam:

out. I never know how to Raccoon, raco. Raccoons. Raccoons, ra

Emma:

Raccoon,

Sam:

rah, raco, raccoon, sorry. America.

Emma:

Perhaps if I'd heard this when I was of the age that the Raccoons made a massive impact on my entire life. Yeah. Then I'd have been on board, but Okay. As a cynical 40 something. Hearing it for like the first time it just doesn't hit the spot for me. Fair enough.

Sam:

Fair It's not going on my workout playlist. Like I have one of those. it's not going on my berry picking

Emma:

Oh.

Sam:

But I quite enjoyed it and I think

Emma:

that's great. I'm glad that you enjoyed it. I just don't really have any affinity to it. But that's okay because we're different people and we're allowed to have different opinions.

Sam:

Friends, friends,

Emma:

Friends,

Sam:

the

Emma:

But if you come after the Raccoons again, I will fuck you up.

Sam:

Just, I borrowed Cyril Sneer's glasses and it all went downhill from there. part of the appeal of the Raccoons is that entirely incongruous song at the end. Yes. Which is a very 1980s American cartoony thing to do. Oh yeah. And you can hear this song at the end of something like that. Yeah. And actually, with that in mind, got some comments from the internet. Okay.

Emma:

A few people said this or things along these lines. So psychonaut three 16 said"this should be the theme for the forthcoming Avengers movie" and somebody else commented,"yeah. Why don't they use this for Marvel movies?" I'm not really into the Marvel

Sam:

I'm not massively,

Emma:

but you've seen some of the

Sam:

seen some of them. I've enjoyed them. Yeah, fair enough. But. It's quite simple thinking, isn't it? This song features the word hero, ergo, puts it on a film about a hero,

Emma:

When I was digging around on YouTube I did stumble upon a weird video somebody had made where this song is laid over a clip from Smallville where a whole bunch of other superheroes start to appear with young Superman. It's painful to watch.

Sam:

Back in my day, Emma. Nerds were clever.

Emma:

Do you

Sam:

that? I do remember Do you remember that, yeah.

Emma:

clever

Sam:

Do better, nerds.

Emma:

Come on nerds. Show us what you're made of. I, I don't know. Why am I antagonizing the nerds?

Sam:

I dunno. Yeah.

Emma:

because I'm definitely nerd adjacent.

Sam:

are a nerd. No non nerd has any business with that much Lego in their house.

Emma:

Yeah, fair point.

Sam:

so it's time to rate this, Emma, using our special patented, copyrighted, legally protected site of special scientific interest Meat Loaf song rating scale, which runs all the way from Michael Lee Aday at the top for his finest works to Michael Lee Okay, in the middle, all the way down to Michael Lee No Way at the bottom. But Emma, what is this one?

Emma:

an Okay.

Sam:

Yes, it's Okay, isn't it? It's Okay. I think it's top end Okay.

Emma:

I think it's mid-range.

Sam:

But it's okay.

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

It's a okay. A Okay. Means in the middle and not at the top. Ding.

Emma:

So, Sam, what have you brought for us to dissect

Sam:

Well, Emma, I'm sticking with the heroes theme, so I'm going back to Jim Steinman's work with the delightful Bonnie Tyler. And we are gonna talk about Holding out for a Hero, which was on the soundtrack to the film Footloose in 1984. There is a video to this. I'm not gonna say it's a great video, but Bonnie is clearly, absolutely hanging out of her arse, so it is very funny to watch. So we're gonna watch that. Now, here's a tiny bit of it. Let's all have a banging time with Bonnie Tyler, 1984s Holding Out For a Hero.

Emma:

The world of music was a much better place for Jim Steinman, wasn't it? Just I love it. I've always loved that song.

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

Um, came out the year I was born and whenever I heard it as a kid, I just thought, oh God, I want that kind of adventure.

Sam:

Interesting. I genuinely thought you'd be a bit cynical on this one. I

Emma:

love It's a classic. It's,

Sam:

It is. It's a banger. I love it. Where shall we start? Shall we start with the video? Obviously everybody knows the song. Everybody knows the song.

Emma:

The video itself you are right. It's not great, but there's some classic Jim Steinman things in there. The girls dancing in their nighties. Yes.

Sam:

It's not very Jim. Yeah. So the video mostly features Bonnie in a, an old Westie Yeah. Wooden cabin being threatened by baddy cowboys in black with neon all over them.

Emma:

I love the uh, sort of drum hit where it's like the lighting up whip Yeah. Or the gun going That's so

Sam:

1980s. And then yes, we cut to a harem of ladies in their nighties singing the backing vocals. And then occasionally just Bonnie stood on the edge of the Grand Canyon doing a big sing. Yep. Because I'm in America? I'm going to the Grand Canyon, find a way for me to put it on my expenses. But she looks absolutely hanging. Yeah.

Emma:

Yeah. She looks tired and emotional.

Sam:

Oh. Oh. A very 1980s press phrase. So yeah, this song, it was written by Jim. Yeah. Lyrics are not by Jim. Really? Yeah. So this is from the soundtrack. Have you seen Footloose? I have not. I've also not seen Footloose. And up until about halfway through preparing this, I had Footloose and Flashdance Confused, So, Footloose is the one about a town that has banned dancing, and Kevin Bacon comes along and dances at everybody

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

Dean Pitchford, who wrote the screenplay also wrote all of the songs on it. The soundtrack included this, the song Footloose. And let's Hear It for The Boy. All of which were written for this as well as some other songs, which I'm sure are good, but less famous slash I don't know them as well. But yeah. Dean Pitchford, approached Bonnie."We decided that we were gonna go after Bonnie Tyler, who was not even really happening at the time. I had fallen in love with Bonnie Tyler because she'd sung It's a Heartache, and the song Total Eclipse of the Heart was a hit in Australia when I heard it, but it had not broken in the US yet. But in order to get to Bonnie Tyler and to get her to sing something for us, I was gonna have to work with Jim Steinman. I'd known Jim Steinman's work from all of his Meat Loaf days. So I sat down and listened to a lot of Jim Steinman and I came up with'Where have all the good men gone and where are all the gods? Where's the streetwise Hercules to fight the rising odds'. I wrote that lyric with an ear towards snaring, Jim Steinman, and it worked."

Emma:

So this guy did what we're trying to

Sam:

do. Yes.

Emma:

Wow.

Sam:

Holding out For a Hero is the song that we will end up writing. Emma. Yeah, I,"Jim looked at the lyric and he immediately knew what to do with it because it was so much in his style that he was familiar with" blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, what Jim did with it is pair it with a tune that he lifted wholesale from his solo album. So let's not pretend that he worked particularly hard on this one. The tune comes from Stark Raving Love. Yeah. In 1981, which has the lovely do dos and other elements in this song. We'll talk about Stark Raving Love in a later episode I'm glad he got to reuse the tune for something good.

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

Dean tells us an anecdote about something, which Jim does a lot that we've not yet mentioned ever. I remember bringing in a girl to sing, Holding out for a Hero with Jim Steinman, pounding the crap out of the keyboard. We were done. I looked over and there was blood on the keys. Everybody was just grooving along and he's pounding and this girl's singing. And at the end of the whole thing, I looked over and there was blood up and down the keyboard. It cut his fingers." People say that as well about the early days of them trying to get the Bat out of Hell album to different publishers. He would go in and play until his fingers bled.

Emma:

That's

Sam:

say what you like about Jim, but he's committed.

Emma:

Crikey, that's That is intense, isn't it?

Sam:

I've never arted until my fingers bled.

Emma:

I have, but only through like, cutting my fingers while doing a bit of art and craft stuff. An accidental slip up, not through passion.

Sam:

And then you kept going, Emma,

Emma:

No, then I went and found a plaster and maybe went and had a drink and a calm down.

Sam:

Oh. Doesn't say anything about Jim doing that.

Emma:

Jim didn't have like a nice cup of tea. Jim did

Sam:

Jim did not have a nice cup of tea. I'm gonna go out there and say, this is probably one of Jim's more famous works after the two or three massive Meat Loaf songs, this is next.

Emma:

And he didn't even write it.

Sam:

Well, he wrote the

Emma:

he wrote the song but didn't write the lyrics. I honestly thought that he'd written the

Sam:

Well, picked up on something while listening to it over and over. The protagonist of the song isn't a very Jim protagonist, she's a damsel in distress. Ah. And Jim is very much about, probably too much about girls doing that they to do.

Emma:

Yeah. He's not really into rescuing

Sam:

This is a very old timey gender role song. Yeah. It's a banging good song, but especially paired with the video, it's Bonnie saying, come along big muscly man, and take me away from

Emma:

it. It's Bonnie being horny again.

Sam:

It, oh, it's, It's horny Bonnie. Bonnie didn't even know the single had been released until it charted.

Emma:

I imagine Bonnie existing in this sort of, the word?

Sam:

A parallel dimension think

Emma:

she's quite on this I don't think she's quite on this planet.

Sam:

Oh, well it's interesting you raised that Emma. Do you remember when we were talking about Ravishing slash Hulk Hogan's theme? Yes. And I read you out a piece where Bonnie painstakingly explained who Hogan was. Yeah. There's this man in America he's very muscly he's Hulk Hogan. Sorry. Welsh people especially sorry, Bonnie. Well that came from an article in Tracks magazine and I have another installment for you. Oh, lovely. Tyler explains pop culture.

Emma:

Do we need a jingle?

Sam:

Holding out for a Hero happened when Paramount Studios phoned my manager and asked if I'd be interested in doing a song for the film Footloose. I said, yes, I would do it if Jim could produce it."Before we did it, we went into the Paramount Studio and had a sneak preview of the part where the song was going to be. A city boy's father died, so the mother wanted to move into the country where she had some family. He met this girl and of course she was already going out with a country boy."So this song happens where they are having a competition. Whoever could stay on a moving tractor longest would win the girl. The two tractors are coming along this narrow ledge and they're going hell for leather towards each other. The city boy can't get off his tractor because his shoe is caught, but the country boy doesn't know that and ends up jumping off and abandoning his tractor. So the city boy won". Now I know we go into a lot of detail in Film Club, but bloody hell, Bonnie. It was released as a single off the Footloose album. There were four hit records off that album, none of which were mine, so we forgot about it. Then 18 months later, they began to play my song as the theme of the American Football Program every Sunday," the American football program, and I don't know if that's a program in the US or in the UK there, but either way, that's an adorable phrasing."Then every Thursday people were also hearing it on another American TV soap called Coverup. Because they were hearing the song twice a week, they were going into the shops and asking where they could buy it. So the record label had to re-release it because of the big demand. It became number two for three weeks and the only thing that kept it off number one, was the fact that Mick Jagger and David Bowie were number with Dancing in the Streets". It's very what I did on my holidays, isn't it? And then we released a single and it didn't do very well, but, and we

Emma:

went home. Oh God.

Sam:

This was originally released as a single off the film soundtrack, but it was later then put on her second album that she, did with Jim Secret Dreams and Forbidden Fires. And here's Bonnie on the cover of the album:"I'm pleased they've, used a full face on the sleeve. When I buy albums, especially if it's a woman, I think you want to see the eyes. I always think that it's very important to see a person's face close up. There should be some contact there, like Tina Turner for instance, when I'm listening to her album, I look at her album cover and I see her there."

Emma:

Okay. Yeah. right.

Sam:

Very much made for Jim, I think. Yeah. Two sides of the same intense hor coin.

Emma:

Oh wow.

Sam:

Yep. Bonnie was the first British female star to go straight to the album charts at number one,

Emma:

Well done Bonnie,

Sam:

which is a fact, but not necessarily an interesting

Emma:

one. Indeed.

Sam:

On release, it only hit number 96 in the UK. And number 34 in the US Really. It later did come back and hit number two in the UK, but it's not as much of a big, massive hit as you might have expected.

Emma:

That's really strange because it, it's been all over the place. Oh, yes. The last however many it's been on adverts, it's been in film and TV

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

It's been on spoof

Sam:

Yeah, it originated on Footloose. Other films it's appeared on include Short Circuit Two, Shrek, two Uhhuh and 2011 remake of Footloose for some reason. And then tons and tons of trailers and TV spots and stuff. It's a very commonly used song. I think it's probably one of. I'm gonna go out there'cause nobody's ever gonna be able to contradict me but I think this is the most covered Jim Steinman

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

And that's based on a bit of poking around on Spotify. Okay. But it's one of his most commercially viable songs as well. You're not get a lot of big name artists covering Bat out of Hell. But yeah, tons of people have covered this. Yeah, quite a few. I said it was on Shrek Two. Yeah. Have you seen Shrek two? No. No. Have I? I'm not a, I'm not child.

Emma:

I am a child, but I've

Sam:

I've not In the film, it's sung by Jennifer Saunders playing the Fairy

Emma:

Uhhuh.

Sam:

I've got a few covers to play for you, so we won't do all of them or all of any of them. Yeah. You'll get the So this is Jennifer Saunders singing it in the film.

Soundtrack:

hero. A hero.

Emma:

I have thoughts.

Sam:

Please share your thoughts.

Emma:

Big fan of Jennifer Saunders she's been a hero of mine for many and I liked the opening part, the When it went a bit Euro

Sam:

Uhhuh

Emma:

so big of a fan.

Sam:

Emma I regret to tell you just how many idiots on the comment section think this is the best version. Madness.

Emma:

Absolute madness.

Sam:

So that's that version. But then on the closing credits, there's another version. Okay. Are you familiar with the band Frou Frou? Oh, this is the worst possible introduction. I think Frou Frou would be really up your street, but this is not gonna be a good introduction to them. Do you know Imogen Heap the singer? Yeah. She was in Fru. Okay. If you know Imogen Heap, you know Frou Frou, it's same thing. In that case, you might like

Soundtrack:

Hercules to

Emma:

So that is the version that Iceland would submit for Eurovision.

Sam:

This was trend in a lot of, particularly I think in kids' films at the time. Get established cool underground

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

Band. Get them to plug a popular song through their band Yeah. Yeah. And let's not care about whether or not it's any good.

Emma:

It's

Sam:

It's interesting. It's interesting. There's a, I can't remember what film it's off. There's a Regina Spector cover of While My Guitar Gently Weeps Yeah. That falls in exactly same category. It's not a song that she should be singing, but they've just gone have some money. do it. So yeah, that was Shrek Two's visit Which introduced whole new generations of kids to the song. So, fair enough. Bonnie herself has rerecorded it three times, Because she loves spending her money. 2004, 2011 and 2013.

Emma:

Can I ask, has she done a weird slowed down version featuring lots of puppies?

Sam:

Nor has she done a version with a complete unknown Canadian singer because she was walking past the studio at the time, the 2013? I'm my searches I couldn't find it, but it was the charity single for Children in Need that

Emma:

Oh, right, okay.

Sam:

Yeah. But has since been scrubbed from the BBC's website, possibly for copyright here's a version. This is by a band called Nothing But Thieves.

Emma:

So that's just been run through the Goth machine?

Sam:

that's been run through the Goth machine. That was used on the trailer for a season two of the TV show, Vikings. I've never seen Vikings. No. I assume it's about Vikings, but we can all picture what that trailer was. There were burning villages. There was a man walking very slowly with a big

Emma:

and with each sort of pulse of the music, there was a blackout and then back up again. Yeah.

Sam:

It's one of those songs that you record in certain knowledge that someone will stick it on a trailer of muscly men walking around looking tough eventually. there are multiple bardcore covers.

Emma:

Bardcore.

Sam:

Yeah, I'll play you, I Okay. What do you think

Emma:

oh, I've got a horrible feeling that you might hear it at Renaissance fairs.

Sam:

I won't do the artist the disservice of putting this clip on the podcast'cause we're about to rip into it. But as a genre, it's one of those that isn't designed to be enjoyed. It is just designed to make you sit there and go, oh, yeah. See what you did there. Well done.

Emma:

Oh yeah. my reaction to it as soon as the vocal kicked in was I let my head flop back and I shouted, fuck off.

Sam:

sorry. bardcores. Not, a, it's a It's not, it's just not

Emma:

for me.

Sam:

No. That is just a tiny selection I'm gonna say, obviously every song in the world has a billion covers Spotify by now. But in terms of big label commercial covers, I think this has a good shot of being the most covered Steinman song. would you like to do a quiz?

Emma:

No, but I know it's gonna happen.

Sam:

It's time for the quiz, Emma. Woo. Today we're gonna mix things up in the quiz, we're gonna play Bonnie or Blobby. So I'm gonna read you out five quotes from reviewers. You're gonna tell me whether that was a quote about this or about the Mr. Blobby single Mr. Blobby.

Emma:

Bonnie or Blobby,

Sam:

Very basic and utterly irresistible."

Emma:

I'd like to think I'm gonna say Bonnie,

Sam:

That was from music and media, and they were talking about the Mr. Blobby

Emma:

Jesus Christ.

Sam:

Here's number two."What might be the worst song of all time?"

Emma:

I've been thrown because I feel like that should definitely be Blobby, but people probably have strong opinions about Bonnie Tyler's

Sam:

if it helps. This is from a very well known outlet. This isn't just some blog or

Emma:

Right.

Sam:

This is somebody with a bit of cache.

Emma:

I'm gonna say Blobby.

Sam:

You were correct. It was MTV talking about the Mr. Blobby single. Yes."It tried to kill music with what might be the worst song of all time." Oh

Emma:

Yeah. I

Sam:

yeah. All right. So yeah you're one out of five so far. Question three."Displays some of the worst of its decade's typical excesses."

Emma:

Bonnie.

Sam:

That is a Bonnie. That's the AV club talking about Bonnie's single"displays some of the worst of its decade's and creator's excesses". So you're two outta five, if you get either of these next two right, you'll have won and it'll be two nil for the series for you.

Emma:

Oh, no. Pressure

Sam:

number four,"the ultimate pop anthem."

Emma:

Tricky. It shouldn't be tricky. Fucking'ell Blobby is awful. I'm gonna say Bonnie, is it Blobby?

Sam:

You still got time to change your mind.

Emma:

No, I'm sticking with my original answer.

Sam:

That was Metal Hammer and they were talking about Bonnie

Emma:

Phew.

Sam:

And this is just for the victory lap.

Emma:

I just to. Point out.. When you said it was Metal Hammer. I knew I was home safe. I knew I was home safe.

Sam:

Emma, everybody has opinions on the Mr. Blobby single. So the last one,"musically, quite complex,"

Emma:

Blobby.

Sam:

It is. It's Blobby. That's number ones blog. Talking about Blobby. Tune nil for the series. Wow. Well done.

Emma:

Ah

Sam:

do you wanna hear what the people of the internet think? Good. at 10, she rt e"It sometimes amazes me how there are a few songs in the world that seem to be so timeless. Songs by Abba, and literally, this. Gives me chills that every generation and walk of life will know this song until the end of time."

Emma:

That's asking quite a

Sam:

Well. I wanna pick up two things, one songs by Abba and this, but I'm gonna continue to go out on my limb and say, this might be the longest remembered Jim song.

Emma:

Could

Sam:

Could as the years go by,

Emma:

also somewhat cynically,

Sam:

Uhhuh

Emma:

depends on where the world ends really, doesn't it?

Sam:

cheery tonight, are you? Let's assume Emma. We live on into a utopian Star Trek future.

Emma:

Oh, well this is still gonna be played at weddings then, isn't

Sam:

it? Yes, it is. Whereas Bat Out of Hell, they won't know what a motorbike is in the space future. Oh oh God.

Emma:

I don't wanna be in a space future where Bat Out of Hell isn't played at a wedding

Sam:

what Bat Out of Hell was

Emma:

Actually,

Sam:

Weddings.

Emma:

no. Probably more Paradise by the Dashboard Light is a wedding.

Sam:

I'll allow that. Did you have a Meat Loaf song at your wedding?

Emma:

No, but we had DJ iPad that was playing horribly hip indie music because I'm awful.

Sam:

Fair enough. Shall we rate this song? This is a Jim Steinman song, so we're gonna use our lovely Jim Steinman songwriting scale, which runs from Jim Steinman, up at the top to Jim Fineman in the middle, all the way down to Jim Declineman. Begin the discussion.

Emma:

A Jim Steinman.

Sam:

Is it?

Emma:

Do you think? It

Sam:

I.

Emma:

Oh,

Sam:

it is a good song and I like it. It's not my favorite of even the songs that he's done with Bonnie.

Emma:

What you've just said Yes. About it being the most well known and popular of Steinman's ra.

Sam:

You've convinced me using my own words. It's a Jim Steinman,

Emma:

I win.

Sam:

I just wanna point out though that Jim would be horrified to know that we'd used commercial success as any means of determining quality in his work.

Emma:

I'm sure that he would be horrified by that while he sat in his disgusting mansion.

Sam:

Oh, the Ying and the Yang. Mansion.

Emma:

Disgusting.

Sam:

That reminds me, I can't remember where it was. I found an anecdote somewhere that mentioned he lived in a hotel in New York for quite a while, even though he had an apartment down the street. And we all know why

Emma:

those poor cleaners at that hotel.

Sam:

So that was Chat out of Hell.

Emma:

was wasn't

Sam:

it good? What did you think of this time's songs? Did you agree with our ratings? Do you vehemently disagree? Do you think Frou Frou did the best version of Holding out for a Hero? Let us know. chatoutofhell@gmail.com. Or you could give us your opinion on next time songs, which are

Emma:

Amnesty as Granted from Welcome to The Neighbourhood

Sam:

and I'll be bringing Cry over me from Bat out of Hell Three: The Monster is Loose. And that's the end of another Chat out of Hell. If you don't mind giving us five stars on your podcast, reviewing app of choice, telling your friends, recommending us on a date sending an all company email to tell everybody at work about it. You probably won't get fired. Just let'em know. Did you see Meat Loaf playing Tetris on his Game Boy, while waiting to be picked up after sports practice? Let know. chatoutofhell@gmail.com. Any other business, Emma?

Emma:

No. No other business from me. No other business from me.

Sam:

other business from me. We'll see you next time for another

Emma:

chat. Out of Hell Bow.

Sam:

Bow.

Emma:

Bing.