Chat out of Hell

Episode 5.4 - No Matter What | In the Land of the Pig, The Butcher is King

• Sam Wilkinson

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Sam:

What is this?

Emma:

This is Chat Out of Hell, a podcast about the works of Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman. But if you're listening to this, then I reckon you probably know that already, don't you?

Sam:

who is Meat Loaf?

Emma:

Meat Loaf was a singer and actor who was in the original cast of the musical Hair. He declined the opportunity to be in the famous nude scene stating"you got an extra$12 50 to be in the nude scene, and I didn't need an extra$12 50." Who's Jim Steinman? Uh,

Sam:

Jim Steinman was a musician and composer whose first foray into musical theatre was when he was at college. Where he wrote for a musical adaptation of a Bertol Brecht play

Emma:

Oh no. Which one?

Sam:

A Man's a Man

Emma:

Oh, I didn't do that one. Uh, Who are we? uh,

Sam:

We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland. And we are fans of Meat Loaf, Jim Steinman, and one of us likes musical theatre and the other one not so much. So this'll be all right, won't it?

Emma:

Oh yeah.

Sam:

Welcome to Chat Out of Hell Bow. Now, now, Now. here we go again.

Emma:

Hey, Sam.

Sam:

Hi, Emma. You alright?

Emma:

I'm not bad. Thank you. How are you?

Sam:

fine. I'm just gonna adjust my own volume.

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

Oh, there is that deep seductive tone that only I can hear of my own head.

Emma:

Lovely.

Sam:

Oh yeah.

Emma:

What about my deep seductive tone?

Sam:

Easy now. And if you'd like to hear Emma's deep seductive tones, you can call oh eight nine one.

Emma:

Sexy time. Sexy

Sam:

Is it oh eight nine? I don't even remember

Emma:

can't remember.

Sam:

for sexy numbers was. Do you think they still do sexy

Emma:

It's probably all like web based sexy web chat. I do occasionally consider trying to take on that line of work because I'm in the position where I'd like to earn more money, I don't really want a job. And I've considered things like The old sexy chat.'Cause I'm a versatile woman and I could, I figured for the tape I could send in our Christmas special from last year.

Sam:

You think they have audition tapes? It's a self tape. This one Is your

Emma:

the glamorous World

Sam:

be off screen reading the other part? What are you wearing

Emma:

in the glamorous world that I imagine the sexy phone line exists in. Yeah. Yeah. And there will be an audition to make sure that I can, bring the goods.

Sam:

Yeah, if you want, if you want. Oh, it

Emma:

Oh, it got weird again, didn't it?

Sam:

got weird. This is Chat Out of Hell, which is a Jim Steinman and Meat Loaf discussion book club of a podcast. So every episode we both bring a song written by Jim Steinman, or performed by Meat for our listeners' delectation, we are gonna listen to them, talk about them, rate them on our patented Meat Loaf or Jim Steinman song rating scales. So we are talking about musicals this week. We're talking about two songs that Jim Steinman wrote for musicals originally. Emma, what have you brought?

Emma:

I've brought No Matter What, which comes from the Whistle Down the Wind soundtrack, But the most famous version is by boy band Boyzone so we're gonna start with that one. What have you brought, Sam?

Sam:

Well, if you can get past Emma's incredible enthusiasm for No Matter What by Boyzone, we're then gonna listen to, In the Land of the Pig, the Butcher is King.

Emma:

is a title and a half,

Sam:

Which Meat Loaf sang on Bat out of Hell Three and is from the Batman the Musical soundtrack which was a project that Jim Steinman worked on, which somehow never happened. we'll learn about that

Emma:

but it sounds like it could have been so good.

Sam:

Oh, good. Well, we'll find out how good it could have been. But we're gonna listen to Emma's first. So listeners, if you can tolerate it, please go find No Matter What by Boyzone,

Emma:

there is a video. So we will be commenting

Sam:

Oh, crikey. Go find No Matter What by Boyzone. Find it on your YouTube or your Spotify, or your copy of Now That's What I Call Music 1996. We're gonna play a short clip of it now. That's the end of that sentence,

Emma:

that was No Matter What by Boyzone. All I really have to say about this is chch-a-chch-ah-ah

Sam:

I'd completely forgotten that the intro

Emma:

it's so bad.

Sam:

I've probably not heard that since 1998.

Emma:

No. It used to be on the radio a

Sam:

It was, yeah. the era when boy bands still walked the

Emma:

Were you a boy band kind of a boy,

Sam:

Was I a boy band kind of a boy. Emma. I was gonna say great question. Um, no,

Emma:

no, no, I dunno if it comes across, I wasn't a boy band kind of a girl

Sam:

You weren't queuing up outside your local arena screaming, holding a big card saying, Ronan, I love

Emma:

No, My thing.

Sam:

Did you know that this was a Jim Steinman as a kid?

Emma:

I didn't know it was a Jim Steinman until I bought the Meat Loaf's Greatest Hits album I don't think this sounds like a Jim Steinman song, and I dunno if it's because it's been run through the boy band machine. When I heard it on the Meat Loaf album, I was very surprised.

Sam:

So Meat Loaf did a cover, did he, is this spoiler alert?

Emma:

Yeah, spoiler alert. Meat Loaf did a cover,

Sam:

we'll be listening to in a bit

Emma:

And he oh, he has things to say about it. Oh, wonderful.

Sam:

Oh, wonderful.

Emma:

So I didn't realize that it was a Steinman song until I heard the Meat Loaf cover. And I don't, again, spoilers, I don't particularly like the Meat Loaf version either. There's just something about it that doesn't have the drama that I want in a Meat Loaf stroke Steinman song., Perhaps it's because it was run through the boy band filter and that kind of turned me

Sam:

They're so young, Emma, they're so young. they're children.

Emma:

they are exploited children. And one thing that I've noticed all this week while I've been listening to this and doing bits of research on it is when I've been kicking back and watching the TV at night on one of the Sky channels, there is going to be a documentary called No Matter What that he is talking to the remaining members of Boyzone about that time and the difficult period that it was for them. I think they talked to Louis Walsh, who was their manager as well. And I don't think that they've ended on good terms. So I suspect it was quite a difficult time for those children. those young men Alongside the potential exploitation that may have been going on, they're also like these young guys that have come from Ireland who are suddenly surrounded by screaming girls. That's gotta be a head fuck, hasn't it?

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

Nobody comes out of that unscathed. No, you look at like, the guys from Take That, who went through the

Sam:

kind of Yeah, yeah. The charts were full of men with no shirts. Yes. Singing in four part close harmony, largely insipid songs about how you are nice and I want to do a kiss with you.

Emma:

Yes. It was designed to tap into the teenage girl psyche I hate it. One Christmas I worked at HMV Meadowhall and we had a really strict playlist of stuff that was allowed to be put on in the store. And oh my. God, that's a special kind of torture. I think that year there was a Robbie Williams

Sam:

Was that when he did, like, Robbie Williams covers Frank Sinatra.

Emma:

Oh I can't remember. I've tried to block Robbie But there was definitely a Westlife or something out at the time that was monotonous dirge pop. Mawkish, that's the word I'm groping for. Mawkish and that's how I feel about

Sam:

So there we go. That's our context for how we are talking

Emma:

this

Sam:

song.

Emma:

I say all of this, but if you look at the chart it was number one in about 18 countries. Yeah. Which is huge. So, you know

Sam:

yeah. We've just spent a lot of episodes talking about Meat Loaf songs that got to like, number 84 or something, or didn't even chart,

Emma:

but this smashed it.

Sam:

absolutely smashed it.

Emma:

Perhaps we should look at the video first.

Sam:

had proper flashbacks there.

Emma:

It's so nineties.

Sam:

It ticks all the

Emma:

It's got, it ticks all the boxes. It, it really does it. It is. Yeah. I Spy 90s Music Video

Sam:

You've got the band themselves of course. And you've got a bunch of people of appropriately different ethnicities and

Emma:

Yes. It's so right on

Sam:

wearing a liney,

Emma:

everybody is dressed in white

Sam:

which in the context of Whistle Down the Wind, which is a musical about

Emma:

Yeah. Suddenly So it's all a bit Jesus. There's definitely a Jesus figure in there. Yeah.

Sam:

Somebody's building a big hot air balloon

Emma:

the indoor hot air balloon, that doesn't, yeah. It's a nonsense.

Sam:

And then at the end, all the silver tickets from the Crystal Maze rain down on

Emma:

So they've lost all the prizes'cause they've collected too many silver tickets. Not enough gold ones. Enjoy that, So the Boyzone video was directed by Michael Geoghegan and it was filmed at the Roundhouse in London. And I guess it's big enough

Sam:

inflate a big balloon in it.

Emma:

An alternate version was later produced for the tie in for Notting Hill'cause of course it was

Sam:

on, this was in

Emma:

for that. it's the same kind of video, but they had a load of clips from the film mixed in as well.

Sam:

Yeah, I remember that one. Yeah, like screens going by in the background that had a little bit of, was it Andi McDowell?

Emma:

No, that was Four Weddings

Sam:

four. Was that Four Weddings. the same, isn't Julia Roberts. Yeah.

Emma:

They were basically

Sam:

Oh, I'm just dusting off the late nineties here. Aren't we?

Emma:

formative years. Um, It was originally written for Whistle Down the Wind, which was a collaboration between Jim Steinman and Andrew Lloyd Webber. Yep. Who feel like weird, chums, but chummy they were

Sam:

do they feel that weird?

Emma:

I don't think I'd've made that prior to us doing this.

Sam:

Creepy Obsessives hanging out in basements writing big, dramatic,

Emma:

Musical theatre kids, aren't they? Yeah. That's what Jim So they, collaborated on Whistle Down the Wind and the version that's used on Whistle Down the Wind is totally different.

Sam:

How did this fall into the hands of Boyzone then?

Emma:

Right.

Sam:

And by I do mean fall into their hands. How did they intercept the lyric sheets?

Emma:

They wanted to put out a tie-in album featuring songs from Whistle Down the Wind. But done by big artists. And we'll probably be coming back to that album at some point

Sam:

cause Bonnie Tyler's got a song on it.

Emma:

'cause Bonnie's got a song in it. and so they wanted a big band to, to take

Sam:

some. Right. So they approached various big artists of the day and Boyzone just happened to be in

Emma:

that. Yeah. It was rewritten for them. So the version that we've just heard now is their version. It's also the same version that Meat Loaf sings. But the actual version from Whistle Down the Wind is very different. Cause it sung by children I'm not gonna go too deeply into the story of Whistle Down the Wind, but I will do a really basic cover. Whistle Down the Wind tells the story of three children in 1950s Louisiana, who discover an escaped convict, the Man, their barn. They believe that he's Jesus Christ. And they pledge to protect him from the adult world, who instead see him as a dangerous criminal. Swallow, who's the eldest child, develops feelings for the man. The children's secret becomes impossible to keep, leading to confrontation between faith and reality that culminates in tragic consequences.

Sam:

It's basically the first scene of Great Expecations

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

with extra Jesus,

Emma:

a lot of extra Jesus. And there's all sorts of different storylines that's the basic plot. Cool. So it's some kids that are stupid enough to believe that an escaped convict is Jesus.

Sam:

And this is them singing about how they can't deny that

Emma:

this. Yeah. This is the end of act one. And they're singing about how they'll protect Also, you get like the other villagers singing along, in about the crimes and how they want to protect the village it's worth a listen. I think.

Sam:

All right. Well, we are gonna listen to it now. Listeners, do what you like. Everything's just fallen into place. the music was Lloyd Webber. The lyrics were Jim. Yes. So when you take one of the songs from the musical and strip out half the lyrics and give that to Boyzone, of course there's no Jim left. Yeah. It's just generic insipid I love you stuff. But that was quite Jim.

Emma:

It's certainly more Jim

Sam:

It's got wrestling with the devil in it, emma,

Emma:

is very Jim, isn't

Sam:

and actually the trio of lines,"if only tears were laughter, if only night was day, if only prayers were answered". That's such a Jim line,

Emma:

you could hear that in a proper Jim

Sam:

Jim, forever young, raging against God. My huge disdain for all child actors aside. There. Technology yet, hasn't provided robot child actors to make them more tolerable. So,

Emma:

yeah. Come on, technology. get a move on.

Sam:

I quite like that.

Emma:

I It's all right. It's not for me.

Sam:

me. Contextually it's the first act showstopper, so draws on in that

Emma:

Yeah. I have heard one or two of the other songs in that act and there's some that I really

Sam:

Oh, good.

Emma:

that I'm sure we will pick up on'cause they are also covered by Meat Loaf and Bonnie The musical wasn't very successful on its first release. It premiered in New York off Broadway in 96. And'cause it wasn't a hit, it never made it to Broadway. Lloyd Rose from the Washington Post said"it's just dull. Steinman and Lloyd Webber's differing styles of gothic intensity might have been expected to be mutually enhancing, but in fact they cancel each other out." So it was reworked after that. Yeah. And it was brought over to London in 98 when it ran from 1998 to 2001 was performed 1044 times and was generally a lot better received. I think Jim quite enjoyed working with Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Sam:

Well I think we've mentioned this before. Lloyd Weber wanted him to do the lyrics on Phantom.

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

but he was too busy working with Bonnie. He made the right choice.

Emma:

I think so. so, yeah that's the musical,

Sam:

an interesting journey that song's been on, isn't it?

Emma:

And it's not over yet. Because Meat Loaf does a version.

Sam:

Now. And that's a funny joke for those of you who listened all the way through,

Emma:

Oh God,

Sam:

that's a bit of a slog, innit. That's definitely Jim Steinman. One minute, 25 of intro, a minute and a half of outro. After the intro, it comes in with the sparkly noise off the Toys R Us adverts.

Emma:

Yeah. Yeah. Jim's got his Christmas, noises out, hasn't he? God, that's a slog. It's one that I skip on the album.

Sam:

Okay. I was enjoying it at first.

Emma:

It's a mashup of two songs from the soundtrack. of course Meat Loaf couldn't just do the normal song so he's got to mash it up with another track that's called Home by Now. Yep. Which is what you get at the intro and the outro.

Sam:

Is, I assume the kids saying,"oh, we should be home by now. Let's not go in that barn."

Emma:

there's a disappointing lack of chk-a-chk-ah-ah

Sam:

Once he got into No Matter What I was quite enjoying the first couple of verses.'cause he sounded like a scared man in the dark. Ploughing on no matter what happens. But then he got too confident Or confident. Better way. He got too powerful Emma.

Emma:

Meat Loaf wasn't thrilled that the big song had been offered to Boyzone. And he said,"this keeps happening to me. I was supposed to be the one that recorded No Matter What, not Boyzone. Okay, they did a big hit version, but come on, are you kidding? It was like nothing. No body, no soul. Can you imagine what I would've done with that song?" And then, imagine No more because he did it anyway. And had to mash it up.

Sam:

such a whiner, isn't he?

Emma:

Oh, he really is.

Sam:

Oh, I never get anything I want except all this money and fame and

Emma:

Yeah. There, there's,

Sam:

I this was mid eighties Meat Loaf, I'd understand him being a bit sulky. But this is but this is

Emma:

post. Yeah, this is post bat two He's in a good place.

Sam:

I quite like his version, but it goes on too much. any song that Jim has written for somebody who isn't Meat that he then covers.

Emma:

It doesn't sound right, does it?

Sam:

It doesn't work. No. Interesting. He should listen to when Jim tells him what's for him and what isn't.

Emma:

It, goes on too much and not in a fun way like some of the other songs do. Do you wanna hear what the people of the internet had to

Sam:

please.

Emma:

Opinions vary. Raquel said"this song was for the Andrew Lloyd Weber musical Whistle Down the Wind. Meat Loaf also did a version of it," So this is commenting on the Boyzone version. Don't listen to it. It'll make your ears bleed. I love this song so much and it was lovely to see them sing it live." So she's obviously been to a Boyzone concert some point but doesn't like the Meat Loaf version.

Sam:

I'm happy that she's happy.

Emma:

Conversely, Iris Brandt 2 9 5 9 said,"no one can sing this song better than Meat. I love it. And goosebumps at the end".

Sam:

A real spectrum of opinions

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

Has anyone chipped in to say, actually those 11-year-old drama school children sing it best?

Emma:

I haven't got that. A lot of people feel really emotional about the song, so I'm not gonna diss

Sam:

not gonna yuk anyone's yum.

Emma:

Lot, lots of people cite the Boyzone version of being like really meaningful the comments. So it's got'em through tough times. It's been played at weddings and funerals and stuff, so I can't be cruel it, but it is mawkish and cheesy.

Sam:

Is. And I think we'd both be lying if we pretended we didn't have something like that in our brain somewhere. That is an objectively bad song that we still have a

Emma:

lot to. Yeah.

Sam:

Is it time to rate this song then, Emma?

Emma:

It's time to rate this song. this

Sam:

up. Good.'cause we've been talking about it for nearly an hour

Emma:

Yeah. I'm exhausted and

Sam:

we've got a lot to go. This is a song by Jim Steinman, so we rate these on our patented wind whistlingly good Jim Steinman song rating scale, which runs from Jim Steinman, up at the top to Jim Fineman, for his middle of the road songs, all the way down to Jim Declineman for his very, very bad songs. Some of them are dodgy uh, but what's this?

Emma:

It's a Fineman, I guess.

Sam:

the Boyzone version, I would decline.

Emma:

Yeah. version

Sam:

in the context of the show has a bit more of the Jim to it. It's fine. It's not offensive. Meat's version is, well, lyrically it's the Boyzone Meat's version is better produced, but put it through the Bat out of Hell Two Meat machine. Is that gonna sound good? Can you even conceive of it as a Bat out of Hell Two era song?

Emma:

It's definitely not a Jim Steinman.

Sam:

No, I'm not saying that. No. But

Emma:

I'd be happy to decline the whole lot. Okay. But. I appreciate. I don't have much time for the boy band stuff, and that has very much coloured my perception.

Sam:

The things we've declined so far. Hulk Hogan's theme, the Want Ad, More, Requiem Metal,

Emma:

Oh God.

Sam:

And all of the Dream Engine. Does it share that illustrious company?

Emma:

It's not as shit as those, is it?

Sam:

No,

Emma:

it's a fine.

Sam:

It's fine. Yeah. This is a,

Emma:

It's inoffensive,

Sam:

It's a Jim. Fine. Fineman. fine.

Emma:

Good. So, Sam, tell us what you've brought.

Sam:

I've brought in the Land of the Pig, the Butcher is King, which Meat Loaf recorded on his album Bat Out of Hell Three, and was originally written for Batman the Musical, which was never performed. So listeners, go away, find that on your YouTubes or your Spotifys or your local slaughterhouse. I guess there's no video for it, it is just an album track. So look at something else while you're listening. We are gonna listen to it now and we'll see you very soon. Oink oink. there you go. Do you feel like you're in a regional rock rock club in the late two thousands?

Emma:

That

Sam:

What?

Emma:

Really?

Sam:

really hate it?

Emma:

It's quite two thousands, isn't it?

Sam:

It's very two thousands.

Emma:

Yeah. Some of the lyrics made me chuckle.

Sam:

you not feel much better than having listened to No Matter What? You listen to some hard rock,

Emma:

definitely a lot more rock."With all that we can take and pocket. No one needs to know we are the plug and they're the socket. Give us the juice and we'll go."

Sam:

They're good, but there are some better lyrics. Here's one."We know what to say. If you stand in our way, don't stand in our way."

Emma:

It's not Jim's finest set of lyrics.

Sam:

No. An incomplete song from an incomplete show. And this is the context of Bat out of Hell Three where something happens, Jim doesn't wanna play, or he's too ill, or he is pretending to be ill and he just throws Meat some old photocopies of stuff had lying around and off you go with it. Another set of lyrics though, they're the big dogs waiting for their mother. Come to the confessional, so I can tell you all to bugger off," it, I love it because it's, like a lot of Anglophile Americans, Jim still doesn't quite work out how British swearing works. works. Yeah. We Would never use bugger off in that context. I'm so mad and angry and I want you to bugger off.

Emma:

How had I missed that? That's amazing.

Sam:

I do enjoy the audacity of rhyming bugger with mother.

Emma:

Yeah. That's not a rhyme. Mother bugger. Oh wow.

Sam:

And just like other Jim songs this is a recurring problem with Jim. We had I'd do Anything for Love being the name of the song and the lyric is, I would do anything for here the song is In the Land of the Pig, all the lyrics refer to pigs, plural.

Emma:

I liked the noises at the end. That noise at

Sam:

the end. They were fun, Yeah. It's big and it's crashing and it's sort of thing you've come to the Meat Loaf shop

Emma:

Yeah

Sam:

It might be the own brand version, but it's the product that you're after. In the context of Meat's stage persona, you can picture him stalking around the stage being the big cartoon villain of himself being brought on by two attendants in a cage as Jim wanted him to do, Breaking out and singing this animalistic and Yeah. Fun fact for you. This song is the last time Todd Rundgren gets credited on a Meat Loaf song.

Emma:

Really?

Sam:

Yeah. This is Todd's final appearance

Emma:

this is Todd's swan song

Sam:

He's one of the background vocalists.

Emma:

Wow.

Sam:

A fun but not particularly deep fact.

Emma:

Do you think he'd he'd had enough after this bullshit?

Sam:

think he got out when the going was This is from Batman, the musical. Emma. There's two versions of this floating about, this is obviously the one that was recorded properly in a studio. There is Jim's demo version We'll learn about Batman the Musical in a minute, but we all know it didn't happen. And after it hadn't happened, Jim released some of his demos to the internet. So have a listen to this. Let's see if it changes your mind. Even on the demo, he got the pigs in at the end, so you're clear what the song is about.

Emma:

it. Love it. How'd

Sam:

you feel about that

Emma:

I like that more.

Sam:

Do you? Yeah. Interesting. I don't like it less

Emma:

the drama in it is better.

Sam:

Yeah. This is theatre Jim, isn't

Emma:

This theatre. It's theatre Jim. But if you think back to like Bat of Hell Two, that's very theatrical. it really benefits from that. I think stylistically it's been taken too far into I guess what was fashionable at the time in the naughties.

Sam:

Bat out of Hell Three has been criticized for being too nu metally.

Emma:

And doesn't work.

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

if Meat Loaf had've sung this version, I think it would've been mad and

Sam:

That is Jim hammering away at the keyboard with his lovely chord progressions, which are really good. The piano accompaniment, piano led accompaniment I find much better than the guitar in the Meat version. So Meet said to our lovely sauce mc wall. When he was recording his version of the song, that's when he realized he was making a Bat out of Hell Record. Sorry, I didn't mean to make you spit your drink out. And then he's also dissed Jim's version. Yeah. He says Jim's version is"very West End Broadway. So Oklahoma that it's ridiculous." It was for a Broadway show, so I'm not sure you can criticize it too hard for that, but it's quite Phantomy, I think. Have you seen Phantom? you seen enough of Phantom

Emma:

to talking about

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

It's big villain action. And that's what you want from a, Batman musical, isn't it? Something a bit camp. And I'm on board for that.

Sam:

So let's talk about Batman the Musical and why nobody's ever seen it. We're gonna go with the quiz, Emma.

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

We're gonna start with the

Emma:

How has Mr. Blobby fucked over Batman the Musical?

Sam:

Put yourself into the shoes of a Broadway producer. Jim's just played this for you. But what do you think the song's about? Is it about A), the corrupt officials who run Gotham City gleefully singing about how they love being Is it B) A song by super villain, the Butcher, singing to his gang, the pigs, who all dress in pink with pig masks and only say pigs, pigs, pigs. Or is it C) A song by the criminal Joe Chill about how he's gonna do all his crimes to Gotham City, but ending with him falling into the radioactive guns that turns him into the Joker.

Emma:

I hope that it's A but gone.

Sam:

You've gotta gimme an answer.

Emma:

I'm giving the answer A the first one. That's what I think. That's what I hope it is.

Sam:

three one to you. This series well done. Yeah.

Emma:

Oh, good.

Sam:

My God, do you know. I have lost sleep this week trying to work out how to wedge Mr. Blobby fucking this song is an albatross around my neck.

Emma:

I love that you've done this to

Sam:

yourself

Emma:

that you've painted yourself into this stupid corner.

Sam:

I thought, oh, maybe there was like a Batman Mr. Blobby crossover comic or something at some point. Were they both in, in the Beano or,

Emma:

What is Mr. Blobby part of the DC Universe?

Sam:

Well it turns out he isn't, Emma. Maybe there was a Batman villain called the Blob or work with that. No. No.

Emma:

Batman's too gritty for that shit.

Sam:

Well, they've got like clay. Oh fuck. Oh. So yeah, you saw straight through the gang of people dressed in pink who go around saying their own name.'Cause that's what

Emma:

that's blobby. Blobby, blobby.

Sam:

yeah. Yeah. And Joe Chill falling into the radioactive gunge that makes him the Joker. All of that is true, but I just added gunge.'cause that's what Mr. Blobby would cover people Okay. So you're trying to lead me down that Yeah. Oh that's an element. So, I hate you Mr. Blobby.

Emma:

I love that it's doing this to you this time.

Sam:

Yes. We know very little about the plot of Batman the Musical, but we do know that this song was by the corrupt people who run Gotham singing about how they love being so corrupt. Oh

Emma:

such exposition.

Sam:

Yeah, it presumably is one of the opening songs. Batman the Musical was commissioned by Warner Brothers in the early two thousands, music and lyrics by Jim Steinman, story by the playwright David Ives. The New York Post is my source for a lot of this, and they are a despicable rag, so might not be true, but their report is that in the late nineties, Warner started looking enviously over at what Disney were getting with the Lion King stage musical. And there was the Beauty and the Beast Show. Yeah. And they thought, we want a piece of that. So they turned to Jim Steinman to make that happen.

Emma:

It's a weird leap

Sam:

that isn't contextually it makes a little sense., In this timeframe, Jim is working on Tanz der Vampire Yeah. Over in Germany, which was a success in the original German, less so the American We'll get onto that in a minute. But obviously he's just come off Bat out of Hell, he's worked with Lloyd Webber in the past, he's just been doing Whistle Down the Wind, so he is got the cred. Right. Jim has opinions on Batman. Batman is the only great superhero in my opinion. I've always loved Batman'cause he's really human and is the way he is because he saw his parents being slaughtered." Other people might have said, murdered, killed, slaughtered.

Emma:

Slaughtered.

Sam:

He's a total psychotic, neurotic, non-functioning human being who... a playboy who has a totally superficial, silly life by day and by night, gets dressed up in cod pieces, fetishistic vinyl with enormous nipples."And he goes out with Robin on these adventures. I don't think you could find anything kinkier. And yet he's a hero. And it's that combination that's really cool. The complexity of the human element, the vulnerability and the power, and just sheer visceral, fun and excitement combined of the gothic transfigured image."

Emma:

Ooh,

Sam:

Yeah. And they went, yeah. All right. You'll do

Emma:

I can see if Warner Brothers were trying to replicate the success of Disney's Lion King musical then it sounds odd to say that they got Jim on board, but if they're trying to do that with Batman, then it makes perfect sense to get Jim on board.

Sam:

Even more sense when I tell you that Tim Burton was attached to direct. Someone describes the idea of the setting as they're gonna have Gotham City Germany in the thirties. Cabaret, corruption everywhere,

Emma:

all

Sam:

that

Emma:

This sounds like a musical that I would go and see.

Sam:

New York Post is quoting a source that's quoting Tim Burton. He's not pleased with the goofy, campy turn the franchise took with Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, both of which were directed by Joel Schumacher." Didn't need to mention that, just could have named the films. Yeah we're gonna go after Joel Schumacher He wants to reestablish his original vision. His major impulse is to redeem the soul of the Batman series." Yeah. And then Jim chipped in to say"it's more like his first two movies than any of the other Batman movies. It's very dark and gothic, but really wildly funny. It was my dream that he do this" and then we don't really hear anything about it after that point. Warners pulls the plug in 2004.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

For one of three possible reasons. Possibly because Batman Begins, was about to come out in cinema and they didn't wanna dilute and confuse the franchise? Possibly it's because it was rubbish. Possibly it's because they realized what Jim Steinman was like to work with. We just don't know

Emma:

it could be a combination of the three,

Sam:

Possibly all three. Since then, Tim Burton has also distanced himself from it. He claims he was never really attached. What he said was,"they approached me about that and I was interested because I liked Jim Steinman. I met him a few times thought he did some great stuff. But at the end of the day, seeing this guy prancing around and singing, I dunno, look what happened to Spider-Man." I what?

Emma:

So the King of the Goths didn't want to play anymore. The King

Sam:

of the Goths didn't want to... musicals are about guys prancing around

Emma:

and singing Yeah.

Sam:

The title of the email should have been a yes or no. Tim talking about Spider-Man there, that's a reference to Spider-Man: turn Off the Dark, The infamous Spider-Man musical that was written by Bono and the Edge out of, off of U2. Do you remember news of that?

Emma:

Wasn't it catastrophic? Did it also lead to the Kimmy Schmidt?

Sam:

Kimmy Schmidt has that joke about Spider-Man 2: 2 Many Spider-Men yeah. That he is a joke about this. It came up in the news a lot because about every three months in rehearsal, and then in the early performances, somebody would catastrophically injure themselves

Emma:

was one of those doomed ones, wasn't it?

Sam:

It's got reputation for being this massive, colossal flop, it ran for about four years. Yeah. I didn't realize that till I looked it up, but yeah, like it just lives on, in pop culture memory as this awful production that failed and broke a lot of actors' legs. But it also didn't even open until 2011. So Tim was just covering his own arse there. This song was actually also present in another musical that you have seen.

Emma:

Was it in Bat out of Hell?

Sam:

It was in the original.

Emma:

The original version Bat out of Hell.

Sam:

And I can see that working there. Obviously, that's Falco singing

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

Nahahah, I run the city. I'm so evil. Hahaha. Yeah, it's a big evil villain song. it's good.

Emma:

love a big evil villain. it's another one of those songs of Jim's that Meat Loaf has covered at the wrong time, like Train of Love.

Sam:

Yeah

Emma:

the Jim demo version of that is on my playlist.

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

so much fun.

Sam:

it's

Emma:

it's gorgeous and silly

Sam:

And poor old man Meat singing Train of Love

Emma:

Sounds terrible. And in this one, it's the wrong era because he's got a bit nu metal, which doesn't work

Sam:

Yeah. I think this could have worked on Braver than We Are, even with his fucked up

Emma:

Voice

Sam:

Copyright Jim Steinman Because it is a song about an old. Villains.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

I the penguin and I'm all horrible

Emma:

It could have worked on Bat Two.

Sam:

It could have worked on Bat Two. Yeah. About the only place in his career it couldn't have worked was

Emma:

where it was

Sam:

Bat Three

Emma:

or

Sam:

possibly a couple of albums after that. Yeah.

Emma:

Bit rough.

Sam:

Bit rough. Bit rough. There are seven songs off the Batman musical that Jim put demos out and couple more of them were covered by Meat Loaf. So we'll return to the Batman musical, possibly in another series where I've got a different novelty pop here to try and wedge in there. Would you like to hear what the people of the internet think?

Emma:

I really would. Yes.

Sam:

No strong opinions on either versions. on Meat Loaf's version at Little Scissors, that's not scissors. That's like scissors, but without the C.

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

My favorite song,

Emma:

It's a bold choice. How many other songs have you heard?

Sam:

And that's a comment from two years ago as well. Not even like when it first came out.

Emma:

It's a weird choice

Sam:

and crazy mofo in a magic box.

Emma:

Oh

Sam:

"I love this song. Take that everyone who says Meat Loaf songs are girly. Who

Emma:

saying that? Of all the criticisms of Meat Loaf songs, I don't think I'd have ever gone for girly.

Sam:

isn't it? All that motorbiking

Emma:

and all those motorbikes are dead girly.

Sam:

All that. All that. Doing it with ladies. So girly

Emma:

Is this what Andrew Tate's doing to the world? Because doesn't he, have a thought that if a man enjoys sex with a woman, then he's gay.

Sam:

seem to know a lot about Andrew Tate, Emma.

Emma:

I'm oddly fascinated. Every so often, No, does nothing for me.

Sam:

I assumed it wouldn't, That's I made the joke.

Emma:

Every so often I find myself delving back into the artist formally known as Twitter to go and get some like, full on hardcore hate to just see what the hate is doing out there. What's

Sam:

the so

Emma:

I'll go and look at there. There's a couple of comedians that I go and have a look at. and then I'll go and have a quick look and see what Mr. Tate's got to say. I don't know why I do it, cause it always makes me really angry, but I feel like I probably need that anger in order to get shit done,

Sam:

'Cause all the shit you get done.

Emma:

Imagine how little get done without that.

Sam:

I think it's safe to say this song is really beloved of Meat Loaf's most confused fans Yes.

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

So shall we rate this one Emma? It's another Jim Steinman. So we're rating from Jim Steinman to Jim Fineman, all the way down to Jim Declineman. what is it?

Emma:

Is it? another Fineman?

Sam:

I know where you're going with this. It could be, it could have been a Steinman, couldn't it? It could have been a Steinman, but it isn't. Get Todd Rundgren to make pig noises with his guitar.

Emma:

Oh, yes.

Sam:

Have Jim actually produce Meat singing it?

Emma:

Yeah. Get the piano going

Sam:

Find an excuse to wedge in another three minutes somewhere. And that would've been a Steinman. Yeah. This is a Steinman in waiting, but right now it's just a, it's a Jim Fineman.

Emma:

It's a Jim

Sam:

Jim Fineman. So that was our songs this episode. was, It was, did you enjoy them? Did you have opinions on them? I've gone a bit Fast Show haven't I? you like them sir? Do you? Let us know. Chat out of hell@gmail.com. Does she do email, sir? Does Americans, Yeah, oof. Let us know what you thought about those chatoutofhell@gmail.com. Did you agree with our ratings? Did you think we were talking nonsense? You can email us like this person has done. It's Claire Muncaster. Hi Claire. Always a pleasure. She says"This podcast makes me so happy". Aw yeah. I thought we could use that ego boost. need that On the video for Cry Over

Emma:

Oh, yeah yeah

Sam:

The the young man that looks halfway between Jim Steinman and Meat Loaf Claire"says, maybe I'm naive, but I don't think he looks like he's spying on the woman. I think he's like a guardian angel, checking if she's okay,'cause she's crying so hard." Which a lovely,

Emma:

optimistic

Sam:

place to live, isn't it? That

Emma:

the old, er, Jim Loafman

Sam:

The old Jim Loafman. Yeah. So Emma, what are our songs gonna be next time?

Emma:

Next time I'm gonna bring More Than You Deserve from Dead Ringer.

Sam:

and I'm gonna zoom right to the other end of Meat Loaf's career with one of his later albums, Hell in a Hand Basket, which was not, we've not talked about Hell in a Hand Basket How. So I'm gonna start our delving into that album with his cover of The Mamas and the Papas' California Dreamin'.

Emma:

Lovely stuff.

Sam:

is it?

Emma:

Dunno.

Sam:

We'll find out and if you have opinions on those songs, do let us know. chatoutofhell@gmail.com. Keep your Meat Loaf thoughts and anecdotes flying in. Give us five stars on your podcast app of Choice. Recommend us to the person sitting next to you on the bus. That's a win-win.'cause either it gets us a new listener or it gets you a whole bus seat to yourself. Did you see Meat Loaf playing Dr. Kawashima's brain training on his Nintendo DS? Let us know. chatoutofhell@gmail.com. Any other thoughts, Emma?

Emma:

No. No further thoughts?

Sam:

you've just gotta do your brain training for the day, remembered. He's still waiting. You know that disembodied Japanese head going

Emma:

sorry Dr. Kawashima.

Sam:

He's so sad.

Emma:

Shit, I've not attended to my Nintendogs

Sam:

Oh, Emma. The Nintendo R-S-P-C-A are coming around. Alright, everybody, go do your brain training. We'll see you all in two more weeks for another Chat out of ell. Bye Bye. No, no, No.