Episode 5.5 - More Than You Deserve | California Dreamin'

As we cruise towards the end of series five, we’ve time to visit more of Jim’s dodgy musical past, but then cleanse our palate with a very modern dodgy cover of an absolute classic. And while we’re there, let’s ask some questions like:

- Is Emma more of a Bert or an Ernie?
- Is Jim Steinman more of a 70s Kermit the Frog or the rubbish modern one?
- What did Bob Mortimer think of Mr Blobby?

PLUS some more Blobby classics from the archives, a bit more chat about old man Meat Loaf raging at the sky and an exciting cliffhanger of a rating.

Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com, find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Chat out of Hell and don't forget to use the hashtag #DearA1saucewedontneedyoursaucenowwevegotourown

Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy. Music extracts on this episode:

More than You Deserve by Meat Loaf from the album Dead Ringer (1981)
More than You Deserve demo by Jim Steinman (1974)
More than You Deserve by Meat Loaf recorded from the More than You Deserve Musical at the Newman Theatre (1974)
California Dreamin’ by Meat Loaf from the album Hell in a Handbasket (2011)
California Dreamin’ by Barry McGuire (1965)
California Dreamin’ by the Mamas and the Papas from the album If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears (1965)
California Dreamin’ by Freischwimmer (2015)

Transcript

Sam 0:00

What is this?

Emma 0:01

This is Chat Out Of Hell, a podcast about Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman. It is not the unofficial CD released of an interview with Meat Loaf in 1994 that is also called Chat Out of Hell. Truly, there are no original ideas.

Sam 0:16

Yeah. I found out about that a little while ago, and I thought, this'll break Emma's heart.

Emma 0:21

Oh, I've known about it for a while.

Sam 0:23

Who is Meat Loaf?

Emma 0:24

Meat Loaf was a big musical theatre nerd who happened to tumble into rock music. turned down the opportunity to be in Grease when the guy that made Hair suggested he ditch Grease in favor of his next project called Rainbow. Not with Zippy and George and

Sam 0:43

Oh, Meat Loaf instead instead of Geoffrey. That's a show, isn't it?

Emma 0:49

Who's Jim Steinman?

Sam 0:50

Jim Steinman is a musician who was born in Hewlett, New York. They're not all fun facts. Some of them are just facts.

Emma 0:58

Who are we?

Sam 0:58

We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland. And if we were Sesame Street characters, we'd be Bert and Ernie. Aw, welcome to Chat Out of Hell Bow. Now, Now, Ooh,

Emma 1:12

Who?

Sam 1:13

Sorry, what are you really gonna ask?

Emma 1:16

Yeah, I am. Who? Who's Sam?

Sam 1:19

who's, Who's who,

Emma 1:19

who's who?

Sam 1:20

who? The tall, thin, uptight one

Emma 1:23

but I'm a short, fat, uptight one. And I'm not that short actually, when we stand side by side, in photographs and stuff, it just looks like I'm some sort of Jeanette Krankee kind of figure. I'm five foot seven, which is above average height for a woman.

Sam 1:43

You're right, that is exactly the sort of thing that Bert would say. Ernie would just go with the flow.

Emma 1:50

How's your rubber ducky?

Sam 1:52

Oh shit. But then you are all about the rubber duckies.

Emma 1:54

almost as if it's not a perfect uh,

Sam 1:57

oh,

Emma 1:58

anyway.

Sam 2:00

Who else was in Sesame Street?

Emma 2:02

I identify with both Oscar the Grouch and the Cookie Monster, both for different reasons.

Sam 2:09

for different but very obvious

Emma 2:10

also, i'm a big bird.

Sam 2:14

Oh, sorry. I forgot it was 1997. Awright? That's a big bird, innit.

Emma 2:21

It's like we're on TFI Friday.

Sam 2:24

Oh

Emma 2:24

A fun one to explain to the Americans. Yeah.

Sam 2:27

Don't forget your toothbrush.

Emma 2:28

Oh God. That's

Sam 2:29

another show. Good.

Emma 2:31

Good. Yep. That's alienated half of the

Sam 2:34

so this is Chat Out of Hell. The podcast one, which is, is a podcast where you and me both bring a Meat Loaf or Jim Steinman song to our podcast analysis club, every episode for us to discuss, talk about its origins, chat some nonsense, and then we rate it on our legendary Meat Loaf and or Jim Steinman song Rating Scales.

Emma 2:56

Is all true.

Sam 2:57

Good. I'm glad. I thought it was in the wrong room. So, Emma, what song have you brought for our listeners?

Emma 3:01

I've brought More Than You Deserve from the Dead Ringer album. What have you brought?

Sam 3:06

I've brought Loaf's cover of California Dreamin' from the Hell in a Hand Basket album in 2011 slash 2012

Emma 3:13

Now I think we've got a correction to make.

Sam 3:15

We do have a correction to I was gonna do it later,

Emma 3:17

Oh, that's, oh fine. Yeah

Sam 3:18

no, I'll do it. Now. Last episode, I did say that this will be our first foray into Hell in a Handbasket. And of course, we have already covered Stand in the Storm, which I had completely forgotten about because it is awful. Completely forgettable. Yes, but we're not listening to that one yet. We're gonna go to your song More Than You Deserve. There is a video

Emma 3:36

is a video. It's worth a look'cause we're gonna talk about it.

Sam 3:39

Good.

Emma 3:40

So, go away to your YouTubes or the VHS that has been tucked under your dad's bed.

Sam 3:47

Do you think that's got the video of More Than You Deserve on it?

Emma 3:50

No.

Sam 3:50

you, grew up in a very wholesome household.

Emma 3:54

I regret saying that. I was trying to think where the VHS could be. I meant for it to be like tucked behind the back of a TV cabinet, but I forgot all the words. Yeah,

Sam 4:06

we go. Listeners, go look for the video of More Than You Deserve in your dad's grot collection. We are gonna watch it on YouTube. We'll see you all in a few minutes.

Emma 4:30

So that was More Than You Deserve from 1981's Dead Ringer album. Sam, any first thoughts?

Sam 4:37

Oh, I love the song.

Emma 4:38

it's a good

Sam 4:39

dead good, isn't it?

Emma 4:40

Do you know much about the song?

Sam 4:42

I'm aware it's from a, musical.

Emma 4:44

We will be coming onto that later on.

Sam 4:46

It's a fun song.

Emma 4:47

In a dark kind of a

Sam 4:49

Well, it's in either in a dark kind of way or a very modern kind of way.

Emma 4:51

Well,

Sam 4:52

Is Meat Loaf poly, you know?

Emma 4:54

Indeed. this was the very first song that Meat Loaf performed for Jim for. Now at the initial audition for More Than You Deserve? The Musical.

Sam 5:06

So that was the show that they met at? Yes. Wow. show Okay.

Emma 5:11

this is quite a big

Sam 5:12

Cool. Yeah. In the history, in the Canon

Emma 5:15

verse. No, I regret that as well. Yeah.

Sam 5:18

Yeah.

Emma 5:19

So

Sam 5:19

scholars, Emma, come on in the literature.

Emma 5:23

So I think it was one that was shoved in Meat Loaf's direction for the Dead Ringer album by Jim. Yeah. Because we know that he was frantically trying to toss off any old shit to fill.

Sam 5:33

to film. Yeah. But this was some good stuff that he tossed

Emma 5:35

that you tossed off. There was, I think, I still think there's some great stuff on Dead Ringer.

Sam 5:38

Yeah. You know, I've changed my mind on this. I think it's a good album. album. Um, So this is one of the songs that Jim wrote before they'd

Emma 5:44

Before they'd met, yeah. Yeah. still as well. It's slightly adapted for this version. There's an extra verse thrown

Sam 5:49

there. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Emma 5:52

That isn't in the original. but we'll come onto that later on. Musically, It's a classic romantic eighties love song, isn't It's got that

Sam 6:02

Oh, musically, sorry. Yeah. yes it is. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Compositionally, it's got a little bit of a country vibe to it. Yeah. It's got that little bit of a twang and it's about a girl and a truck

Emma 6:11

and there's the, all the oos and the piano's quite soaring in

Sam 6:15

Yeah. It's very much in Jim's theme of the first two albums where a 1950s slash 1980s mashup.

Emma 6:22

Yes. Yeah, it is. The piano on this isn't played by Jim it's played by a guy called Nicky Hopkins who was an English pianist. And he worked with loads of mega stars. The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Who Oh, wow. All the big bands. All the Bigs, had a huge career. I think there's even a documentary made about him called something like The Session Musician or something that. So yeah he was a piano on this. And piano's a big part of this song. I would say. The Independent, the newspaper, has listed this song as one of the 10 essential songs to understand the real Meat Loaf.

Sam 6:56

Okay. I don't really know what to say about

Emma 6:59

I suspect it's because I

Sam 7:01

think songs are how you understand the real Meat Loaf.

Emma 7:04

I suspect it's because of the history him and Jim meeting. And this being the first song that performed in the audition.

Sam 7:12

Can I share my theory about the video?

Emma 7:14

You can share your theory about the video.

Sam 7:15

You remember we watched The Dead Ringer movie? Yes. Which was cut for YouTube with some of the songs taken out. And do you remember there's that scene where Meat Loaf's mad that there's no pie.

Emma 7:24

Do you think that this is,

Sam 7:25

I think he goes off and gets pie at this diner. I think that's come out of there

Emma 7:29

very possibly. It feels like it fits,

Sam 7:32

it? Yeah. In the same way that the Peel Out video doesn't really fit the film, but they wedged

Emma 7:37

Yeah,

Sam 7:37

there. Yeah. Because they were filming anyway, so you might as

Emma 7:40

this has definitely got more sort of music video vibes than the Peel Out video

Sam 7:46

would say yes.

Emma 7:47

It feels a bit more considered yes, And directed. I mean it's still been made for about 50 quid.

Sam 7:53

Truck stop, couple of extras

Emma 7:54

And some pie.

Sam 7:55

and some pie.

Emma 7:56

It is nighttime. A truck pulls into an all American truck stop. Neon diner sign, the works, and then the piano begins, and Meat Loaf gets out of the truck in his trademark frilly shirt, and he walks into the diner and sees a pretty waitress behind the counter. And as she serves him, his pie and coffee he falls in love with her. Immediately. Besotted And so of course he begins to sing. And when he hits the line, then I saw you making love to my best friend. She goes off to serve another guy at the counter. And pie is a big metaphor here,

Sam 8:31

It?

Emma 8:31

Pie equals sex. So she serves this other guy and Meat's furious. And he aims his"won't you take some mores" at this guy but the guy is oblivious. So it's all a big kind of fantasy

Sam 8:46

Yeah. I really like that. So it escalates from that, that more and more truckers come in and get served pie and he's stalking up and down behind them singing angrily at them. And they're just eating their

Emma 8:56

Eating their pie. As he starts singing, the more romantic part of the second verse, about the happy parts of the relationship, the waitress is back with Meat Loaf and giving him his check and she's all smiley. then he gets up and starts walking around the diner following her. And she's just trying to do her job. Sam, it really annoys me. He's pestering her. Yeah. And it's, she's just trying to do her job and he's very creepy and some people perceive that as being romantic.

Sam 9:21

Oh no. It's incelly

Emma 9:22

It's, it is incelly, but a lot of things that have been perceived as romantic over cinematic

Sam 9:29

That's certainly

Emma 9:29

Are creepy. ah. Anyway So yeah, she serves all these other customers customers as is her job. And then Meat Loaf starts singing about having to leave her because he's very angry. Can we talk about the angel that turns up,

Sam 9:43

The waitress kind of transmutes into a different waitress of, I would, this is all subjective, but I would say exactly equal attractiveness. Now it, you would expect for this trope to her to be either suddenly super beautiful or perhaps suddenly hideous. And that kind of is something weird, but she just transmutes into a different, equally attractive

Emma 10:03

woman. Another, all right. Looking woman. Perfectly fine, nice looking woman.

Sam 10:07

Yeah. I don't, I didn't quite get what was going on there.

Emma 10:09

To start with, she becomes this other woman dressed in what I've referred to here as school Nativity play angel costume.

Sam 10:18

Yes, it is. It's a tinsel

Emma 10:19

white knight.

Sam 10:19

a white nightie Yeah.

Emma 10:22

A bit of fluff

Sam 10:24

It's an interesting directorial decision.

Emma 10:27

Yeah. Decision

Sam 10:29

because it's just layers upon layers of weird hallucination.

Emma 10:32

Yes. But then, all those other men come in and right at the end when Meat Loaf had enough and he's, he stormed out of the diner. They all creep forward.

Sam 10:42

Yeah. He storms out of the diner, and then it's a scene from Meat Loaf's PoV. Where all the truckers are whoa. Looking down on him.

Emma 10:50

It's really weird in a GCSE drama kind of a way.

Sam 10:55

In a David Lynch kind of a way.

Emma 10:58

Maybe

Sam 10:59

I'm not denigrating David Lynch, but it does have that sort of a vibe.

Emma 11:04

David Lynch has got a lot to answer for, especially in GCSE drama. None of the kids have seen any of the David Lynch stuff by that point, but the teachers certainly fucking have. and if they're young, then they're still in their Twin Peaks phase. Anyway. I've got off topic. So then Meat Loaf bursts back into the diner. And none of the men are there. And it's just the normal waitress. And he's puzzled. And so he asks her if anybody was there and nobody was. Oh, it was all a dream.

Sam 11:38

imagined the whole

Emma 11:40

Oh my God.

Sam 11:41

He's so insecure that he fell in love with a girl and then immediately imagined a load of men to take the girl away

Emma 11:46

So that's the video. It's really weird. It wasn't a single. I don't think I haven't found a release

Sam 11:52

it. Oh. Well that just adds fuel to my part of the film theory

Emma 11:55

Yeah.

Sam 11:55

I like it, I

Emma 11:56

Oh, it's fun.

Sam 11:57

The Meat Loaf in the, the character that Meat Loaf portrays in the video is just this really insecure guy that is so worried about even before I fall in love, a bunch of other men are gonna come around and make love to my girlfriend. And there's something interestingly sad about that.

Emma 12:14

I think because I know the other context of the song it has coloured my perception somewhat.

Sam 12:20

Are we gonna dive into that now?

Emma 12:22

Yeah. Let's talk about the musical. Before we do, I just wanna say there's some quite dark material in so listeners beware there could be some potentially triggering stuff it's a troublesome musical, I would say.

Sam 12:39

Any particular topics to warn people about?

Emma 12:41

Sexual assault.

Sam 12:42

Okay. Right. So, yeah, if that is not something you wanna listen to,

Emma 12:47

maybe skip ahead to our rating.

Sam 12:48

Whenever that is, whenever that

Emma 12:49

whenever that happens.

Sam 12:50

I'll edit in a line here when I've finished doing the edit to tell you exactly what time code to skip to.

Emma 12:55

That would be marvelous. Thank you, Sam. so, this was originally a musical written by Jim Steinman, and Michael Weller, who also wrote the screenplay to Hair.

Sam 13:21

Okay.

Emma 13:22

he'd done all sorts of other bits and pieces. Yeah. And then they got together and wrote this. So I think the book was written by Weller and Steinman did the music, and I think they both worked on the lyrics for the songs. I'm gonna give a really brief synopsis because musicals are big and lots of things happen in them. And it can be really complicated to go through an entire one, especially when you haven't seen it. As I haven't. There are recordings available on Jim's website. They are as high quality as the ones for the Dream Engine. Dreams. Engines. Chugga chugga woo woo.. They're as high quality as the recordings for that. So they're quite difficult to listen to. It is set in a US army base in Vietnam during the Vietnam War. Major Michael Dillon, who is impotent, falls in love with a reporter who has been sent to cover the camp. The reporter turns out to be a nymphomaniac when she apparently enjoys being gang raped by the other soldiers in the camp. However, she realizes at the end that she would be happier giving up her newfound lust for sex to settle down with the

Sam 14:34

Right.

Emma 14:40

Yeah, there are problems with that.

Sam 14:45

There's maybe one massive glaring flashing red problem.

Emma 14:52

as red flags go, this one is big who. Wow. And when I read that, I felt weird.

Sam 15:02

Well, yeah.

Emma 15:03

Really uncomfortable and I didn't want to listen to

Sam 15:08

Okay. That's fine. You don't

Emma 15:09

to, I just don't think it's A place that I want to go to. So yeah, brief synopsis, like I say, I'm sure there's a lot more to it. Yeah. I think Meat Loaf's character in it is into blowing people up. With bombs. So

Sam 15:25

he is in a war

Emma 15:27

From what I was reading, every time one of the characters told Meat Loaf's character that they wanted to go home, he blew them up.

Sam 15:34

That is quite funny.

Emma 15:36

Send them home. Oh, edgy theatre boys I've revisited our friend Mick Wall's book. And he's got quite a lot to say about this. More Than You Deserve is an extraordinary song, in many ways, the keystone song for all of Steinman's work, and certainly one of his greatest. It would not be recorded for Bat Out of Hell, but instead for Dead Ringer, the belated follow-up, where it's given a much more refined, orchestrated arrangement, but its true significance lies in that first connection. The meeting of author and subject. The first time that Meat Loaf would come to embody Jim Steinman's interior universe, feeding on planets and shitting stars"

Sam 16:16

That took a turn at the end, didn't

Emma 16:18

Did, Didn't it? It really did. So the lyric,"Won't you take some more boys, it's more than you deserve. For a lyric like that to work. It can't be sung by a good looking bronzed Robert Plant type. No girl is going to gang bang his friendship group when she's got the real thing waiting for her back at home. As with so many of Jim's songs, it's only artistically true when someone who's been beaten down by life is singing"

Sam 16:44

That's all true, but I just didn't realize how much of a hottie young Robert Plant was. As soon as you said a good looking Robert Plant type, I had to Google him and, I would,

Emma 16:55

Oh yeah. There's a certain

Sam 16:56

Yeah. Yeah. I never realized. I've only ever seen an old Robert Plant. But yeah, no, this is a loser's song.

Emma 17:02

Yeah. it's from the loser's perspective. It's pretty bleak. I've sent you something that I found on Jim's website. It is a version of this song sung by Jim himself. I think it was from the preliminary recordings of the

Sam 17:16

Okay.

Soundtrack 17:17

From the very first moment I saw you,

Sam 17:21

Is that Kermit the Frog?

Soundtrack 17:23

I knew our love would be so strong and the very first moment i,

Emma 17:35

That's got some real country vibes going on there.

Sam 17:37

That's so Gram Parsons. And he's even got his own Emmylou Harris doing

Emma 17:41

Yep.

Sam 17:41

backing singing I love that.

Emma 17:43

It's a nice version.

Sam 17:44

We know that Jim doesn't have a great range and he is a bit Kermit the Froggy at beginning. But this is one of those songs that really suits his voice and his way of singing. Yeah. Much like we've not talked about it yet, but Left in the Dark Yeah. Is a song that's been sung several times. And I like Jim's version the most again, because it's a loser's song.

Emma 18:04

Yeah. And he sounds like a loser.

Sam 18:06

Bless him. Jim is the best at conveying loser in love. Yes. It's good.

Emma 18:13

On that topic again from Mick Wall's book one of Jim's Amherst classmates had discussed this with him and said"Jim knew what it was to be cool, and he knew that he wasn't,"

Sam 18:26

I can't remember if I've used that yet, but that I've had that quote in my back pocket for ages. it's, absolutely true.

Emma 18:32

It's so true. Oh, Jimmy.

Sam 18:35

Do you want to hear the Meat Loaf singing the version in the stage think it's slightly illustrative.

Emma 18:41

Yes,

Sam 18:42

is from the Newman theatre, 1974. So there's loads of clapping there. But the video has a quote from Jim Yeah. That says"they all stood up and cheered wildly, and he was in tears. It was one of the most thrilling things I've ever seen. And you could tell not only that he was an astonishing singer, but also a great actor."

Emma 19:10

I've read that quote elsewhere. And in a review that I read Meat Loaf's performance, particularly this song was heavily praised

Sam 19:21

that that is such a, that's a very good performance.

Emma 19:24

it

Sam 19:25

shame about the rest of it,

Emma 19:28

As I say, perhaps if I'd seen it, I'd feel differently, but the topic

Sam 19:32

yeah.

Emma 19:32

Makes me a bit

Sam 19:34

Well,

Emma 19:35

in fact, more than a bit uncomfortable.

Sam 19:36

Understandably so. Yes.

Emma 19:39

So I've had a look to see what the people of the internet thought, and we're going back to the video now and Loaf version of this song, and so I found some comments. And I'm not gonna read out the names of the people.

Sam 19:51

uh Oh.

Emma 19:53

Not for any. I don't, let me see what you think. So I've got two comments. Yeah. And they both have replies from the same person who seems like a nutter

Sam 20:04

How

Emma 20:05

So should I anonymize

Sam 20:07

Okay give me a quick"name redacted" in a big, loud voice

Emma 20:11

name redacted.

Sam 20:12

And now read them out.

Emma 20:14

Oh, you're such a pro, Sam. So, at that AMC guy said,"what I've always loved is how Meat could pull off the split personality. His Meat Loaf character is loaded with angst and intensity. Yet the man Michael stroke Marvin is actually quite the opposite. A very humble, honest, almost fragile human being." Now, evidently he's not seen that clip of the Apprentice that we've seen, but okay. Name redacted said,"that makes Meat Loaf a perfect man. Modest and humble in real life, but passionate in his soul, many exclamation Oh, I am so in love with him." Okay. So then kopilit, we'll say kopilit said"easily one of the greatest music videos ever made." So this is somebody that's never seen any other music videos but okay. And name redacted. in all caps said,"I easily agree with you, Meat Loaf mesmerizes me in this video. I am drawn to him like a baby to breast milk." There's some fucking weirdos out there.

Sam 21:24

There are some oddballs out there Emma.

Emma 21:26

Oh my God. Like a baby. To

Sam 21:29

Okay, baby. To breast milk.

Emma 21:31

Yeah. That's what the people of the internet to say.

Sam 21:34

Lovely. What do we have to say? Is it time to rate this song?

Emma 21:37

I think it is.

Sam 21:38

Okay. Well, we're gonna rate this on our Jim Steinman Steinman song rating scale, which runs from Jim Steinman up at the top to Jim Fineman for those songs, what are in the Middle, all the way down to Jim Declineman for the bad songs, what he wrote.

Emma 21:52

Yes, I know. what What is this?

Sam 21:55

I know what I think

Emma 21:56

what do you think it

Sam 21:57

It's a Jim Steinman.

Emma 21:59

You think so?

Sam 21:59

It's a really good song. It is definitely, probably marred by the context of the horrible sounding show that it appears in. But. It's then been decontextualized from that by being put on the Dead Ringer album. That's my pitch.

Emma 22:17

Okay. I can roll with that.

Sam 22:18

You don't have to roll with

Emma 22:19

that. No, I think

Sam 22:20

were you, were

Emma 22:21

is a good song. I'm I it was top end of fine. Okay. Or bottom end of Stein. And I think I can roll with that because Meat Loaf does a really good job with it

Sam 22:33

He does do a really good job of it. No wonder they got him to sing it at the audition'cause it's perfect for his voice. So we are gonna call this a Jim Steinman ding.

Emma 22:45

a ding

Sam 22:46

I thought throw a ding in.

Emma 22:47

Fair enough. I Sam, what have you brought?

Sam 22:51

Emma I have brought Meat Loaf's cover of California Dreamin'. I bet

Emma 22:55

I bet that's brilliant.

Sam 22:56

Well, we're gonna find out in a minute. This was on the album Hell in a Handbasket, which was released in 2011 or 2012, depending on where you But you can find it on YouTube or Spotify or a car boot sale, I imagine. So listeners, go away, find that. We're gonna listen to it now. We'll all meet back here in about five minutes.

Emma 23:15

Bring snacks.

Soundtrack 23:16

Leaves.

Sam 23:34

Meat Loaf's cover of California Dreamin' from 2012's Hell in a Handbasket. Emma, your face told a thousand words, but let's have a thousand words out of your face.

Emma 23:48

It's not my favourite... song that we've listened to today. Good grief. there's so much wrong with it. Okay, so the original song, was it The Mamas and Papas?

Sam 24:01

The Mamas and the Papas did do an earlier version. Somebody else recorded a version before them

Emma 24:05

version that I'm familiar with is the Mamas and the Papas. And oh God. The way that Meat Loaf sings it, he misses the rhythm throughout. That's interesting. Yeah. And this is, this is something that I've picked up on before with Meat Loaf. The last time I went to see him when I was, I think I was about 20. And he was going through a not good phase. I think his health had been suffering and I went to see him with my mum and my dad this time. And he wrecked every single one of his songs by not singing the correct rhythm. Yeah. The tune was off as well. Yeah. But the rhythm was out. Yeah. And he kept using the same rhythm for everything. And it just, it really throws you off a song because there's nothing wrong with doing a cover. There are some absolutely bloody brilliant covers out there. And some covers are better than the originals. This is not one of them there's some serious two thousands production going on in there.

Sam 24:59

There is, we can thank Paul Crook of the Neverland for production on Hell in a Handbasket,

Emma 25:04

very funny noises

Sam 25:07

i'm about to make a spirited defense of this song. I'm not in any way claiming this is a good cover of this song, but it is exactly the sort of thing that Meat Loaf should have been trying to do at that age. Because the rest of this album is more of the same. Well, let's go to an interview with Leigh Valley Live, where the origin of the name of the album,"the world's gone to hell in a hand basket every day that I listen to the news, I think the hand basket is getting bigger," Meat Loaf says,"it's crazy out there." does that make it worse if the hand basket is big? I is what?

Emma 25:44

Yeah. Yeah. Very much. What I think I've read this quote before as well and found myself thinking that's meaningless garbage,

Sam 25:54

hell is the problem, not the basket Meat Loaf goes on to say,"I'm not picking on one side or the other. They're all nuts", which we all know is code for. I'm on the bad side, but I don't want to admit it.

Emma 26:06

I'm one of the baddies now.

Sam 26:09

and then I'll skip over to a review of this album by Paul Whitelaw for the BBC.

Emma 26:13

Okay.

Sam 26:14

He says of this album,"all he's prepared to communicate is a sort of non-specific rage, couched in generic metaphors about rainstorms, making him sound less like an apocalyptic preacher and more like a weatherman having a mental breakdown. It's simply not good enough to splutter,'I cannot believe this stuff' without bothering to explain what this stuff actually is."

Emma 26:36

so true though.

Sam 26:38

Yeah, absolutely. So that's what Meat Loaf's up to at that age. But this is him. Well, again, I'll go back to Meat Loaf. In the interview with Leigh Valley Live,"he says he never paid much attention to this song, dismissing it as standard pop tune when it first debuted." How can you miss that? Like I was maybe six years old when I heard this song, and I would've thought to myself, gosh, this is terribly melancholy, isn't it? Yeah. Meat Loaf thinks it's about fear of failure, but I, it's a song that a, an aging musician with a failing voice should be trying to make something interesting out of. And I'm not saying he has, Yeah.

Emma 27:15

if he'd have Johnny Cashed it. If

Sam 27:17

he'd have Johnny Cashed it, I think even with that arrangement and that singing a few tweaks here and there, would've made it

Emma 27:24

less cringeworthy

Sam 27:25

better

Emma 27:26

sexy saxomaphone.

Sam 27:28

Saxomaphone Jesus Sexy saxomaphone See, that's Patti Russo on the backing vocals there. Doing her best to salvage something,

Emma 27:38

doing what she does,

Sam 27:39

Yeah. is

Emma 27:40

best to salvage a shit

Sam 27:41

Meat Loaf's career.

Emma 27:43

It's not for me.

Sam 27:44

No. just me. No. Well, Emma, would you like a palate cleanser?

Emma 27:48

Go on. Then

Sam 27:48

let's have a listen to the original version. Okay. Which as you've already forced me to reveal, wasn't actually by the Mamas and the Papas, the first recording of this is by Barry McGuire. Do you know Barry McGuire?

Emma 27:58

I don't think I do.

Sam 27:59

Sixties folky singer. His biggest song is a song called Eve of Destruction which is quite good, but it's a very on the nose Vietnam protest song. Right. But have a bang on this.

Soundtrack 28:13

the,

Emma 28:25

That's good,

Sam 28:26

It's good. Does it sound familiar?

Emma 28:29

Yeah.

Sam 28:30

Well, here we go, Emma. Here's the twist within the twist. This song was written by John and Michelle Phillips of the folk band, the New Journeymen, who then got it recorded by Barry McGuire on Dunhi ll Records. New Journeymen provided the backing lyrics under their new name, the Mamas and the Papas. And then not long after that, Lou Adler, who was the head of Dunhill Records, he was so impressed with the Mamas and the Papas that he had them rerecord the single, but using the same backing tracks that had been laid down for Barry McGuire. This happened to Meat Loaf, we talked about when he was with Motown, with Meat Loaf and Stoney. He stomped off in a huff'cause I can't remember who it was now, but somebody else rerecorded one of their songs, but they just took out their So the same trick was pulled here and Wow. The harmonica solo was replaced with a flute solo by Bud Shank, and that was apparently improvised. The fun twist within a twist, can just about hear a bit of Barry McGuire's original vocals that are left on the left at the beginning of the Mamas and the Papas version. And you can also just about make out his harmonica solo underneath the flute solo. We know it by now. But obviously that's the best version in the world ever. I've been on such a Mamas and the Papas hit today thanks to this song. So I'm forgiving Meat Loaf, everything.

Emma 29:52

I've just been living in terror while you've going off on this sort of little tangent. Yeah. that somehow you were gonna involve Mr Blobby in it

Sam 30:02

What? Why would I do that? Strange,

Emma 30:04

Don't you gaslight me, Wilkinson.

Sam 30:07

So this song's been covered a few times, Emma. It has um, notably by America Uhhuh the Beach Boys did a version. Meat Loaf's cover is so historically insignificant that it doesn't appear in the list of covers on the Wikipedia page. Yep. But there's this, which is by a German dance something outfit called Freischwimmer. the whole thing looks and sounds like a Grattan advert.

Soundtrack 30:31

All and the sky is grey.

Sam 30:43

I generally don't know if I like that or not. it's achingly cool, isn't

Emma 30:47

it? in a way that makes it probably quite uncool.

Sam 30:50

Yeah.

Emma 30:50

it's trying very hard to be achingly hip and I don't know if it is.

Sam 30:54

Yeah. But coming from someone who hasn't been anywhere near achingly hip in the past, let's say 15 years, be generous.

Emma 31:02

Are we talking me or you here? Okay. As we know, I am

Sam 31:05

still yeah, you're still achingly hip. Yeah. I'm not getting into those kind of clubs anymore. that was the 2016 version by Freischwimmer, which was the first time that song ever got to number one. Wow. Yeah. None of the previous versions made it to number one. So

Emma 31:21

it's cool then.

Sam 31:22

is cool. Yeah. 53 years since its first release till it got to number

Emma 31:27

and it took somebody to feed it through both a John Lewis machine and the dance music machine as well.

Sam 31:33

That's all it takes, Emma. Yeah. Now that 53 years thing is quite interesting'cause by that metric, this song is over a thousand times worse than Mr. Blobby by Mr. Blobby, which only took 19 days to go to number one released on the 30th of November, number one on the 11th of December. You alright? Yeah, yeah, We're just doing a podcast. What's up with you? It's over now. You're fine.

Emma 32:01

Is there no quiz?

Sam 32:02

Well, there is a quiz. Yeah. Do you wanna do the quiz?

Emma 32:04

I was gonna say it's never over, Sam. It's never over.

Sam 32:07

Here are three quotes from reviews. Which of them isn't from a review of Meat Loaf's cover of this song? A."There aren't words enough to describe the horror. B."This track is completely unnecessary". C,"most irritating."

Emma 32:25

The one that's about Meat

Sam 32:28

No. One of them isn't.

Emma 32:30

Sorry. Say A isn't.

Sam 32:32

So thus far in this series this is episode five and I believe you are three. One up. You're now three two up.

Emma 32:43

No.

Sam 32:45

There aren't words enough to describe the horror of the cover of California Dreamin' by the Mamas and the Papas. Meat Loaf duets with longtime touring vocalist, Patti Russo, on this slow overblown take of an otherwise beautiful song". That's from Consequence. Do you wanna choose between the completely unnecessary or most irritating?

Emma 33:02

I think most irritating is probably Blobby.

Sam 33:05

Yeah, you are right. Yes. The track is completely unnecessary," This comes from Goldmine."Comes off more like karaoke next to the Mamas and the Papas original. Patti Russo's classy backing vocals, attempt to salvage a song halfway through, but to no avail. The track is completely unnecessary even for b-side fodder", absolute slamming. Here's a quote from Classic Rock, which didn't make it into the quiz."This album is hobbled by Meat Loaf's tendency to go on on a bit," and then Mick Wall in Like a Bat out of Hell, called it a"mad cover."

Emma 33:35

Yeah, that's

Sam 33:36

all he had to say about it. Most irritating. That was from a review of Mr. Blobby singer of the single Mr. Blobby in the Independent. Mr. Blobby wasn't popular among all his fellow entertainers. Michael Parkinson's found the character to be"far from amusing" while Bob Mortimer called him"a pink spotty rubber twat." And then here's a bit of uh, Mr. Blobby memories fun, which I'd forgotten about. Do you remember, in 1994, it hit the news that Mr. Blobby had reduced a child to tears at her own birthday party.'cause he went in and chucked her cake on the floor. And her father attacked Mr. Blobby on stage. Amazing. Yeah.

Emma 34:15

And that's a real thing and not one of the Noel's house party pranks.

Sam 34:19

No. That was a real thing that happened. Yeah.

Emma 34:21

the nineties

Sam 34:23

What a time. Time. Do you wanna hear what the people of the internet

Emma 34:26

Yes.

Sam 34:27

Well, much like you, I've brought somebody who likes responding to people. Okay. The first comment is from Elijah Sway. This is four years ago. Meat Loaf owns this song now" To which Dennis McGrath 30 88, replied three months ago."The Mamas and the Papas do", and then Elijah Sway came out of hibernation to say"they may be the original, but Meat Loaf did it better" Give it up, Elijah Sway. Then further down, Don Jay, 7 7 7, 2 years ago,"the critics can be damned to hell. This is better than the original," which Dennis McGrath 30 88 replied three months ago."Worse."

Emma 35:10

Dennis McGrath fighting the good fight. Yeah,

Sam 35:13

and that's it. Shall we rate the song? I think we probably should Let's rate the song Emma. So this is a Meat Loaf song that didn't have Jim Steinman involved. So we rate these on our Michael Lee Aday scale, running from Michael Lee Aday for his good songs down to Michael Lee Okay, for his all right, averagey songs all the way down to Michael Lee. No way. What's the story, pal?

Emma 35:35

For me, this is a

Sam 35:36

is it?

Emma 35:37

Yeah. It's bad, Sam.

Sam 35:39

It is bad, but

Emma 35:41

I know it's not,

Sam 35:42

want to reward intent. No,

Emma 35:47

I know. It's not like bad in a creepy way.

Sam 35:51

Yeah. Some of the stuff that falls into the Michael Lee Aday slash Jim Declineman is genuinely horrible, Unpleasant stuff. And it's not that

Emma 36:00

It's not even fun. Like California isn't Big Enough. Which is brilliant fun. This is not fun. This is a slog. it's an immediate skip if it comes on.

Sam 36:11

What, on this album. On this album, Emma, this is your oasis of peace.

Emma 36:16

I suspect this is an immediate skip kind of an album. I

Sam 36:21

Oh, I can't wait to listen to Stand in the Storm again.

Emma 36:24

No, we're not listening to that one either. It tortures a beautiful song. Tortures it. It takes a bleak but beautiful song with so much soul and pisses on

Sam 36:36

it. but he's not trying to piss on it. He's really trying to record an appropriate song for a man his age with a voice in his condition.

Emma 36:47

If you had kids, your fridge would be covered in in terrible artwork. it'd just get more and more layers of terrible artwork because the intent was there.

Sam 36:57

I don't know what to say to that. Other than sorry to all you parents listening. And also, as you well know, Emma, I've got a fitted kitchen and my fridge. my fridge is behind a wooden cabinet,

Emma 37:13

So is mine. And I mourned my loss of fridge magnets

Sam 37:16

too. Otherwise, I'd have Maisie's artwork

Emma 37:18

up there.

Sam 37:19

Every, I think we're gonna have to split vote on this

Emma 37:22

Okay.

Sam 37:23

I think it's an okay.

Emma 37:24

It's a no

Sam 37:26

This is a, that was the Tim Allen noise from the end of home improvement.

Emma 37:33

It's been a while since you've done one of those

Sam 37:36

Ooh, Listeners, if you would like to swing the vote, either way, please do drop us an email chatoutofhell@gmail.com

Emma 37:44

You do of course know that I am right,

Sam 37:46

So that was our songs this episode.

Emma 37:48

Yes it was.

Sam 37:49

Did you like our songs? Did you agree with our ratings? You couldn't possibly agree with all of our ratings'cause you are one person and we are two. Drop us an email chatoutofhell@gmail.com. And if you are the person who signed chatoutofhell@gmail.com up to a match.com account. Thanks, I

Emma 38:05

guess. Oh no. Yeah. God. I find it funny. But

Sam 38:11

Thanks for the bantz lads. We do have a comment on Spotify. Yeah. thanks to LivinAfterMidnight, who left a comment on our last episode about No Matter What."Good one as usual," thanks LivinAfterMidnight."Here in America, virtually no one has heard the Boyzone version, so Meat's felt fresh and new". And that's a fair point. Boy bands don't travel so well, do they?

Emma 38:35

No, they certainly don't travel from the UK to the US particularly

Sam 38:39

or Ireland to the us

Emma 38:41

Sorry. From Ireland to the US. Because I'm so indifferent towards the boy bands. I forget where

Sam 38:47

Well, I don't think we had a successful homegrown British boy band in that era. We had a few minor ones, but the big ones, Boyzone and Westlife were both Irish.

Emma 38:55

I mean, there was Take That.

Sam 38:58

Which now I think about it outsold the both of them by miles. why let facts get in the way of a good, good bit of podcast, eh?,

Emma 39:08

You can prove anything with facts.

Sam 39:09

Cool. Well, thank you. LivinAfterMidnight. And if you want, you can also leave a message on Spotify, which I might spot at some point whenever I log into our Spotify creators account. So yeah. Next time, we are coming up to the final episode of series five. And as has now become traditional, we'll be dipping into our requests bin. And Emma, what are you gonna bring?

Emma 39:29

I'm gonna bring Good Girls Go to Heaven. That was requested by Chris Matts. And that's gonna be from the Bat out of Hell Two album and I'm looking forward

Sam 39:38

it. It's a good one.

Emma 39:39

It's a good one.

Sam 39:40

And then somebody called Tom Wilkinson. I wonder who that could be. I dunno. There's a famous actor one, which is probably who it is. That seems likely.. Yeah. Yeah. He's requested Meat Loaf's cover of Somebody Loves Me uh, which was released in 1994 and I don't think I've ever heard it, so. Oh, wonderful. I'm looking forward to that. That's a Gershwin song that's dead classy in that. Yeah.

Emma 40:00

Good.

Sam 40:01

So there we go. Let us know what you think about those listeners. chatoutofhell@gmail.com. Please continue giving us five stars on your podcast listening app of choice. Recommend us to your friends or your dentist. Chat Out Of Hell is one of the only podcast names that you can nearly say with your mouth jammed wide open. So, perfect. how Emma's trying it right now. Keep your Meat Loaf thoughts and anecdotes flying in. Did you see Meat Loaf playing Alex Kidd in Miracle World? The game that came built into the Sega System? Let us know. chatoutofhell@gmail.com. That's it. I think any other business, Emma? All business concluded. We'll see you next time for the last in this series of Chat out of Hell!

Emma 40:41

Bye. You'll not do goodbye.

Sam 40:43

Yeah. Bye

Emma 40:45

bye.