Episode 6.1 -Read 'Em and Weep | Going All the Way (A Song in Six Movements)

Here we go, diving into series six!

Two delicious slices of Meat Loaf are served in the forms of Read 'Em and Weep then Going All the Way. And why we enjoy them, we'll mull over the big questions like:

- What's the opposite of pearls?

- What did the doctor say to the famous sad clown Barry Manilow?

- Is there a finer sausage than Heck's Sausages? #thechickenonesarereallynice

PLUS we learn what irritating dance hit of the 90s will invade our brains this series, an actual thought about why Braver than We Are is the way it is, and a revelation about Meat Loaf and Emma's stock footage buying habits.

Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com, find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Chat out of Hell and don't forget to use the hashtag #thechickenonesareareallynice

Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy. Music extracts on this episode:

Read 'Em and Weep by Meat Loaf from the album Dead Ringer (1981)
Read 'Em and Weep by Barry Manilow from the album Greatest Hits vol II (1983)
Going all the Way (A Song in Six Movements) by Meat Loaf from the album Braver Than We Are (2016)
Braver than We Are Demo by Karine Hannah (2001)
Braver than We Are by Karine Hannah (2017)

Transcript

Sam 0:00

What is this?

Emma 0:01

This is Chat Out of Hell. The podcast resolved to spend this year giving you more actual facts about Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman.

Sam 0:09

Who is Meat Loaf?

Emma 0:11

Meat Loaf was a singer and actor who, in 2007 appeared on Dick Clark's New Year's Rockin' Eve. Who's Jim Steinman?

Sam 0:21

Jim Steinman was a composer and musician whose musical Dance of the Vampires closed in January, 2003.

Emma 0:29

Who are we?

Sam 0:30

We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland. Comedians, artistes and resting actors. Determined to find the exact last date that you can say Happy New Year to people and not look weird. We think it's January 12th. So with that in mind, Happy New Year. New

Emma 0:46

Year.

Sam 0:46

Welcome to Chat Out of Hell Bow now now now. Ding. Good. You all right?

Emma 0:53

Yeah. I think this is the bit where we talk to each other, isn't it? Yes.

Sam 0:56

we the small uh, Rory Dodd.

Emma 0:59

Rory Dodd.

Sam 1:00

Oh, that was good, wasn't it?

Emma 1:01

Oh my God he's such a nice guy.

Sam 1:04

such a lovely man.

Emma 1:05

He was very generous with his time. That was only a snippet of what we talked about, wasn't it?

Sam 1:11

We had, if you think you know a lot about bargains in Ontario,

Emma 1:16

Not as much as we do.

Sam 1:18

Yeah. Genuinely. That was a really nice lovely thing for us to do just

Emma 1:21

Yeah. He was just so up for it

Sam 1:23

yeah. So if you haven't listened to the Rory Dodd special,'cause I know a lot of people skip the... things that aren't us talking about songs, I would definitely go back, listen to that. He shares a lot of genuine insights into what it was like making music with Meat and Jim. And some stories about them both.

Emma 1:40

but better than that, you just get a real like snapshot of the man

Sam 1:44

Yeah. And he's so lovely.

Emma 1:46

Really,

Sam 1:47

He's a good egg. Yeah. Yeah. This is series

Emma 1:50

Yeah, series six. Normally we like to start the series with a, a, something good.

Sam 1:54

Hey, we'll get onto that. We'll get onto that. Hello new listeners, of which there are thousands. This is Chat out of Hell. It's the Meat Loaf slash Jim Steinman jukebox podcast. do you remember somebody called us a jukebox podcast

Emma 2:07

Yeah. We can work with that.

Sam 2:08

Yeah. Where every episode, me and Emma dive into the back catalogues of Meat Loaf and his on again, off again, slash never possibly was, best bud Jim Steinman. And see what we surface with, is it pearls? Is it bit bits of plastic from the bottom of the sea

Emma 2:29

Microplastics.

Sam 2:30

Is it microplastics? And then we rate those songs. Well, we talk about'em for a bit Yeah, I, and talking about'em is probably the least necessary part of the whole,

Emma 2:40

We could bring this down to like a couple of

Sam 2:42

minutes. Yeah. Bish bash bosh.

Emma 2:44

God, it'd save us hours. But all this setup wouldn't feel worth it then.

Sam 2:48

No. I bought these mic stands. And then we rate those pearls and or microplastics our special Jim Steinman and Meat Loaf song rating scales. So that's who we are and what we do. And this is the start of series six, which puts us roughly one third of the way through.

Emma 3:08

Oh

Sam 3:09

yeah.

Emma 3:10

But we've already done all the good ones.

Sam 3:12

There's a few good

Emma 3:13

There's a few good

Sam 3:14

There's quite a bit of good stuff

Emma 3:16

There's a lot of stuff I've not heard.

Sam 3:18

Diplomacy.

Emma 3:19

Yeah. that's what that was.

Sam 3:23

There's a lot of chances for us to find out about session musicians who played on the background of some other song. We might meet another Rory,

Emma 3:31

exciting prospects

Sam 3:33

indeed. So Emma, what song have you to open series six. Or, if you will, act two.

Emma 3:42

Ooh.

Sam 3:43

Act two of Chat out of Hell. Curtain up. What song has Emma brought for us?

Emma 3:49

have delved back into Dead Ringer from 1981 and I have brought Read'Em and Weep. Ooh. What have you got, Sam?

Sam 3:58

Well, Emma, I've gone to Meat Loaf's final album, Braver Than We Are, and I have selected a very long song. Going all the Way brackets a Song in Six Movements, but we're gonna listen to Emma's song first. So listeners, go away. Find your YouTubes or your Spotifys or a kazoo.

Emma 4:20

A kazoo. And play it yourself.

Sam 4:22

Yeah. Find yourself a kazoo and play yourself, Read it and Weep from Dead Ringer.

Emma 4:29

I would recommend going to YouTube though, because there is a video.

Sam 4:32

Here's a very tiny clip of it.

Emma 4:37

that was Read'Em and Weep from Dead Ringer. I have to say, since we started this podcast and we've delved deeper and deeper into the whole sound and also since talking to Rory I'm finding I really appreciate the background noises a lot now. Yeah. And the choral work on that is just lovely,

Sam 5:00

it? It's beautiful. Yeah. We saw in the video there and heard Rory and Eric Troyer, the Blendos, providing their background vocals.

Emma 5:08

This is a Meat Loaf memory,

Sam 5:10

Meat Loaf memories

Emma 5:15

Yeah. I remember getting really into all the backing vocals when I'd been listening to it all the time. And I think Bat Two was probably my discovery for that and just. There's so much in the background that creates this whole sort of Steinman sound. And without it, like in the albums that Meat Loaf did, without Jim and the various backing singers.

Sam 5:40

yeah.

Emma 5:40

You just don't get that same massive sound. It's really made me appreciate that quite a lot now, and I do really like it. And as a result, this is a song that I didn't really give too many damns about when I was younger, but I think it's great.

Sam 5:56

What's changed your mind on it? Is it just knowing about the technical skill that's gone into it?

Emma 6:01

In this case, knowing more is helping me to appreciate more. Yeah. Because sometimes you worry about delving into things and you never wanna visit the sausage factory, do you?

Sam 6:12

I love sausages,

Emma 6:14

but do you really want to see how they're made?

Sam 6:16

Well, I do a bit, I'm really sorry to take this off topic, but if you drive north from here A1, you know what I'm talking about? There's a big sausage factory that has like Heck's Sausages written on the side.

Emma 6:27

is it the Heck's I quite like their chicken sausages. Exactly.

Sam 6:31

I wanna go, if they've got this massive, very rarely are sausage factories advertised, but they've just got like a massive sign on the side saying, Heck's Sausages, I wanna go to that sausage factory. But I certainly understand your metaphor. Oh good. if you are listening, hashtag dear Heck's sausages, please send Sam from the really good podcast Chat Out of Hell, some sausages.

Emma 7:01

The chicken ones are really

Sam 7:03

Hashtag the chicken ones are really nice.

Emma 7:07

One day somebody's gonna bite.

Sam 7:10

on a delicious Heck's Sausage.

Emma 7:13

Coming back to my point finding out more about the mechanics of the process has been really fascinating and I'm appreciating it on a deeper level. Which I'm personally really enjoying because sometimes this feels like a slog, but this one really didn't.

Sam 7:27

I like that. sometimes we have little to say and it is nice sometimes to remember why we're doing this, to dive into the process and learn why it is that we really like. Yeah. When all of them are firing on top gear, all cylinders, all gear cylinders When the whole crew are firing on top gear cylinder, there is absolute magic that happens. It's fun to dissect that and work out exactly how that's come about.

Emma 7:54

This song from Dead Ringer, which is of course when Meat Loaf's voice is still pretty shot.

Sam 7:58

For the benefit of any new listeners who might not know. This is Meat Loaf's second studio album. The first one Back Out of Hell. Lovely. Big smash. Took a while to build up. Toured the world a lot. Did a lot of drugs, voice is ruined, goes into the studio to record the second one. Whoa. It's not working.

Emma 8:15

There's a lot of criticism for that on this album, but I think this album's quite underrated'cause there's some absolute bangers on there as we've it's not typical Jim fare. cause Jim wrote a lot of new stuff for this, which he didn't ever usually do. As we, As we know. If you can recycle an idea, then my God, he's going to. Yeah. So I haven't found any evidence of this existing before this recording. Yeah. And I quite like the subject matter for this one.'cause it's basically a dear John letter, isn't it? Yeah. And we've all been there,

Sam 8:48

Yeah, we have all been there. Have you ever been dumped by any form of writing, Emma?

Emma 8:52

Yeah.

Sam 8:53

Yeah. Me too.

Emma 8:53

Yeah. It's shit, isn't it? It's

Sam 8:54

Yeah. It is shit, but it was at least brief.

Emma 8:59

Thank God for text messages. This is

Sam 9:02

five minutes. Jim is making you read a five minute essay about why you are so horrible to go out with,

Emma 9:08

can we talk about the video?

Sam 9:11

the video.

Emma 9:11

Because that's the first time you've seen that and I enjoyed your

Sam 9:15

It was lovely. So it's a typical Meat late seventies video. Yeah. It's just on a sound stage with the band, but with a

Emma 9:23

little bit of mucking

Sam 9:24

with some mucking about. Meat plays two characters. He plays Meat the Singer and in the same costume, but with an overcoat thrown over it, and a big hat like Dick Tracy, he plays the writer who is sat at a typewriter typing away and screwing up bits of paper and throwing them across like a journalist in a

Emma 9:43

in It's exactly that kind of superhero journalist from the fifties. Like Clark Kent. Yeah. Yeah. typing furiously, but, oh God. It's not good enough. As ever it is a song set in the fifties and in the eighties. There's a lot of shots of Meat singing and we get shots of the band and we get shots of the backing singers including Rory. Yay. So that was a nice little spot. And you can spot him quite easily. Look for a guy with a mustache and a hat, then it's probably Rory, isn't it? Yeah.

Sam 10:19

Mm-hmm.

Emma 10:20

As ever in these sorts of things, we do reach a point where a pretty girl comes into shot and evidently the anguish of the song is aimed at her, the hussy. Otherwise, fairly straightforward inoffensive video, probably filmed for about 50 quid. But overall just lovely stuff.

Sam 10:38

Yeah, it's nice. I like it. It's a bit of a slow burn, isn't it? It's not what I'm super familiar it's not a grab you by the jacket, let's go Bat out of Hell. No. But I do like it for all that.

Emma 10:52

There's some schools of thought that this album follows very much in the same footsteps as Bat out of Hell. So you get the sort uproarious number to start with. And this one's been compared to, I think it was two Outta three Ain't Bad.

Sam 11:06

Yes. It does have that vibe. It's unfortunate you brought it up'cause it's definitely not as good as Two Outta Three Ain't Bad, but it's still quite nice.

Emma 11:13

Well, we've gotta save some of the good stuff for later on. haven't we. It's not as good, but it's a similar vibe mm-hmm. On an album that kind of does echo the first

Sam 11:23

very much so.

Emma 11:24

It's a song about trying to end a relationship that you know isn't working, but not really being able to find the right way to do it. Yeah. Not a lot to say about the Meat Loaf track apart from Meat wasn't the only one to do it.

Sam 11:37

indeed. I don't even think he was even the most successful person do

Emma 11:41

wasn't the most successful person to do it because Barry Manilow was

Sam 11:47

Big Baz.

Emma 11:48

We're gonna take a little listen to Barry's version. Again, there is a video. Do watch it. Do watch it. Please do.

Sam 11:57

Oh, do watch it do. A man goes to the doctor and he says, doctor, life is all sad and gray and miserable, and I don't know why. And the doctor says, I know exactly what you need. Go see the famous, sad clown, Barry Manilow.

Emma 12:19

But Doctor, I'm the famous sad clown, Barry Manilow.

Sam 12:24

Well, I enjoyed that a lot.

Emma 12:26

thought you might. what do you think of Barry's take on it?

Sam 12:31

I like it. I really like it. You know how I feel about Jim Steinman's work of the mid eighties. Yes. I'm very on board with it. What do you think of it, Emma?

Emma 12:40

it's growing on me. It's growing on me. I've never been a particular fan of Barry, but I don't dislike him either. Yeah. I love how delightfully camp the video is. I really got on board with that. So yeah, I, it really was a much more successful version. I don't know how Meat Loaf did in the charts'cause I couldn't find any info about that, which I suspect means it didn't. But Barry's version charts at 17 in the UK. Okay. 18 on the US billboard. Hot 100 and number one on Canada's adult contemporary charts, whatever that

Sam 13:13

Good old

Emma 13:16

It was Barry's last top 40 hit. Oh, okay. Ever. So yeah. That's, yeah, because it seems like quite a long time ago.

Sam 13:26

Yeah. I, huh,

Emma 13:28

because this came out in 83 That was the last time Barry Manilow troubled the top 40. Yeah, it is. It is. Meat Loaf's version is listed as rock. Barry Manilow's version is listed as easy listening.

Sam 13:46

Have you resorted just to seeing what iTunes metadata they've got?

Emma 13:51

No, this was from

Sam 13:53

Oh, okay. I do apologize.

Emma 13:55

There are a few lyric changes in Barry's version Uhhuh. The second verse, following on from one of the, now the present is nothing but a hollowed out dream lines. Mm-hmm. Meat Loaf says"and I've been dying for hours trying to fill up all the holes with some sense", whereas Barry's version is,"and I've been dreaming forever, hoping something would eventually come. I saw your eyes in the dark. I felt your kiss on my lips. I traced your body in the air until the bodies were numb". Whereas, Meat Loaf was,"and I've been dying for hours trying to fill up all the holes with some sense. I'd like to know how you faded and you threw it away. I'd like to give you all the reasons of what everything meant".

Sam 14:35

Oh, Barry's is 100% sexier. It is sex. Oh, this is, this is horny Jim of the mid eighties though, isn't it?

Emma 14:42

He's in his horny era.

Sam 14:43

He's on the phone to Bonnie at the same time.

Emma 14:46

Dirty Jim. you wanna talk about the video? Because it's bonkers.

Sam 14:53

It's brilliant. It's proper eighties, isn't it?

Emma 14:56

it really is. So we've got a little preamble

Sam 14:58

Yeah.

Emma 14:58

Where the kids from Fame are walking in.

Sam 15:02

Barry is, playing two characters in this. Yes. He's playing himself playing a sort of theatre performer slash clown. Yeah. Slash sad clown. Sad clown. He's playing Pagliacci. And the kids from Fame are all his mates who are like,"you coming out Barry?" No, I'm too busy being sad. And then he does the meme of the clown makeup going on and the wig.

Emma 15:23

Yeah.

Sam 15:24

and then Sad Clown Barry goes to perform at a theatre

Emma 15:27

in front of

Sam 15:28

regular Barry.

Emma 15:29

in a suit,

Sam 15:31

Who is mouthing he's so heartbroken by seeing himself on stage.

Emma 15:36

One of my favorite bits is, when the kids from Fame join in with a word here and there

Sam 15:42

every now

Emma 15:42

and then, every now and then

Sam 15:43

to They're all doing their makeup in the dressing room. Yeah. And then, yeah, the, like the Beastie Boys, they'll join in on every fifth word.

Emma 15:52

It's just really fun.

Sam 15:53

It is fun. I like it. Yeah. I like both versions. I think I prefer Barry's version cause the production

Emma 16:00

the production's better on it. Yeah. I I prefer the Meat Loaf version'cause I usually do. It's the one that I'm most familiar with again.'cause I've listened to this as a heartbroken teenager.

Sam 16:11

Yeah, absolutely. It's fair enough.

Emma 16:12

Do you wanna know what Meat Loaf thought of Barry's version?

Sam 16:15

I Meat

Emma 16:17

Loaf thought

Sam 16:18

okay. Know Barry's version, knowing what I know about Meat Loaf and I now know more about Meat Loaf than I wanted to. I don't think he was a fan.

Emma 16:26

Meat Loaf wasn't impressed with Manilow's version of the song and let him know it. Eventually. Meat Loaf said"Barry knows what I think about his version of that song. I met him six times before telling him what I thought." He told musical historian Michael Cavacini. I said, Barry, you have to know how to sing a Jim Steinman song. One time, Barry was on Johnny Carson down on his knees singing the song. He tried to bring out the dramatic elements of the song, but it just didn't work, and he knew it didn't work. He told me'that's why I don't sing it live'."

Sam 17:05

It's a bit bloody rich from Meat to say other people don't sing this song live, isn't it? He's something of a jealous ex. Is our Meat.

Emma 17:12

He is, he does have that, that vibe. Bless him. Then of course, there's the people of

Sam 17:18

Oh, I love the people of the internet. What have they been up to lately?

Emma 17:20

Well, they've been doing a bit of talking about this and I've had to look at the comments from both performances. This is one about Meat Loaf's from Canis. It just says, I love this track, pure theatre sung by a fine singer who is also rock's greatest ham.

Sam 17:41

I can't argue with any of that.

Emma 17:42

no, I like that. I think that sums it up nicely. Ham. ham. At Brew City 17 said,"I'm a huge Manilow fan, but my take on it is this is just flat out one of the greatest songs ever written. Both versions are amazingly special in their own way. Both are the finest entertainers we'll see in our lifetimes. There is no shame in admitting that you like both versions. Heartbreak is not a contest." So that's very much some fence sitting there from Brew City.

Sam 18:16

hyperbolic fence

Emma 18:17

Indeed.

Sam 18:19

Crikey, I lost count of the number of superlatives.

Emma 18:21

that is all I have.

Sam 18:23

Lovely. Well, is it time to rate this song, Emma? Well, you know what, Emma, I think we should rate this song on our very special, Jim Steinman song Rating scale that we've worked so hard on. So is this song a Jim Steinman? A Jim Fineman, or is it a Jim Declineman? Are you on the fence on the top two, are you?

Emma 18:47

What do you think? I'm curious. I don't think it's the heady heights of a Steinman.

Sam 18:51

I don't think it is either. I'm gonna read out the list of things that have made it to Steinman, But out of Hell, You Took the Words Right Outta My Mouth, All Coming Back to Me Now. Nowhere Fast. Paradise by the Dashboard Light. I'd Do Anything for Love. These are

Emma 19:04

Yeah,

Sam 19:05

Love, Death and American Guitar. We must have been having a light day. Original Sin, Rock and Roll Dreams. Total Eclipse. Is it in that illustrious company? It's nice. It's a lovely song. I'm going to listen to it more. Yeah. But it's not If this was the best song they'd ever done together, we wouldn't be doing this podcast, So on that grounds, we're gonna call this... it's Jim Fineman?

Emma 19:31

Jim Fineman.

Sam 19:32

Jim Fineman.

Emma 19:33

It's fine, isn't it

Sam 19:34

Jim Fineman, isn't it?

Emma 19:37

Good. So Sam, what have you brought?

Sam 19:40

Well, Emma, I have brought, Going All the Way, Brackets, A Song in Six Movements from the album Braver Than We Are, which was Meat Loaf's final album in 2016. The album version of this song is 11 minutes long. But there is also a single version, and it has a video. it's a five minute single version with a video. We are gonna enjoy it now. If you do decide to listen to this listeners... best of luck. See you on the other side.

Soundtrack 20:10

much, we never rock.

Sam 20:15

That was Going All the Way from the album Braver than We Are. Meat Loaf's tragic final record. Emma, do you wanna talk about the video first?

Emma 20:27

Oh, there's

Sam 20:28

Oh, because the video had a hidden joke in

Emma 20:30

there's so much to say. They've really rinsed the stock footage archive there, haven't they? In the same way that I do.

Sam 20:38

Yes. So the Emma and I, in one of our recent shows, we little joke about how companies overuse stock footage Yeah. And how it makes you look like an idiot. Yeah. And the exact same stock footage has appeared in this video.

Emma 20:53

I wonder if they're using the same cheap, scary site that I'm using.

Sam 20:58

so it was directed by Meat's daughter Amanda Aday Okay.

Emma 21:03

Is this like nepotism film project?

Sam 21:06

Possibly. But it maybe gets, I've I've not learned a lot about the process of making the video, except that some people think that they fell out over their visions. So Meat and his daughter made this video together and then fell out during the edit. Wow.

Emma 21:22

Wow. And Meat Loaf is the kind of guy that could fall out with himself

Sam 21:26

Oh, we'll get onto that. the song, So Braver that the album Braver Than We Are every song on it was written by Jim, but almost all of them had been written by Jim a very long time ago. Yeah. Jim was involved in some of the production side of things. He wasn't the album's producer, that was Paul Crook. Okay. But Jim was a little bit hands on. Right.

Emma 21:49

I have so many feelings about this album anyway.

Sam 21:52

Yep. We've gone on record before as saying that obviously Meat's voice is, in Jim's words, ravaged".

Emma 21:59

Yeah.

Sam 21:59

And

Emma 22:00

not in a good way.'cause ravaged can be used to great artistic effect.

Sam 22:05

Yes. Um, Johnny Cash. Exactly. Yeah. This should be meets Johnny Cash American Recordings and it's not, it's Meat just cracking on.

Emma 22:14

Yeah, it's Meat trying to re do all of his sort of past and he's just not got the range or the voice anymore.

Sam 22:21

So I have some insights on all of that In the past we've perhaps been a bit unfair on Meat about this album,'cause we've said he's pretending not to be aging. During the sort of the press for the album, he acknowledged this was gonna be his last run out.

Emma 22:38

Right.

Sam 22:38

So this isn't I'm pretending I'm who I used to be. this is the real swan song. This is the real swan song. Yeah. Which yes, I agree with that facial expression. In many ways that makes some of this even

Emma 22:50

Yeah.

Sam 22:50

But in other ways I

Emma 22:52

I mean

Sam 22:53

cause I

Emma 22:53

guess it's one last swing at

Sam 22:54

two. Exactly. And so far as he can, he's brought in some of the other big hitters. It's a whole album written by Jim. Yeah. On the song that we've just heard were Ellen Foley and Karla DeVito. Yeah. His big female collaborators in the seventies and eighties coming back with one last song. And that's like nice and a a

Emma 23:14

There's a vibe of getting the gang back together.

Sam 23:16

for one last job.

Emma 23:17

I think because his voice is so ravaged and it's so noticeable.'cause the production is like, a bit overproduced.

Sam 23:26

I agree. It feels overproduced. It's not a Steinman production.

Emma 23:30

I just, I find listening to any of the tracks from the album, it makes me sad. Because it's someone reaching the end of their career.

Sam 23:39

Yeah.

Emma 23:40

And it's not the glorious bow out that you would hope it would've been. It is quite a sad thing because we've taken the piss out of Meat Loaf and Jim all the way through and we'll continue to do But we do this outta love as well.

Sam 23:56

We do, yeah. A

Emma 23:57

A genuine love for the music

Sam 23:59

Absolutely. Like I said before, like when Meat and Jim and the whole gang are firing on all cylinders, it is amazing.

Emma 24:08

Oh, it's so good and so much fun.

Sam 24:09

And I totally understand why at the end of his career he would be saying, let's try and do that one more time.'cause what else would you want to do?

Emma 24:16

Yeah. These are songs that could have been belted out brilliantly in his forties.

Sam 24:23

Okay. We'll hear some people belting it out later on. We'll not listen to anybody belt out the whole thing. I do have to go home tonight. But yes, this song has a very long history. Yeah, it goes back in the form, I'm gonna call it Braver Than We Are from now on, because a, that is the refrain constantly throughout the chorus and it's what has been called almost all the time, except for when it appeared on this album.

Emma 24:45

Except when it appeared on the album. That bears the name. Come on, guys.

Sam 24:53

This is classic recycling Jim. The song in the form that you've just heard it, as a sort of duet, that came from Dance of the Vampires. Yeah. And indeed the German version, Tanz der Vampire. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I'm not even gonna bother playing it to you. It's quite good. There's a lady who, like the vampire's trying to seduce her, but she's got human friend who's trying to get her to run away together. Right. And that's that whole refrain of we're not as brave as we feel we are. And she doesn't know what to do. It's quite nice. In the original German version, it was called Draussen ist Freiheit or Outside is Freedom. Ah,

Emma 25:26

yeah.

Sam 25:27

So that is from 2004 or so. Okay. But the tune itself goes back much longer than that to 1972. Oh.

Emma 25:35

Ooh.

Sam 25:36

A show called Little Friend from Front Street. We have nothing from the show at all. It was on at Northampton High School in Massachusetts where Pat Keating, who was the mother of Barry Keating, regular Steinman collaborator, was a teacher book and lyrics by Esther Budger and Jim Steinman. And it was a play about the considerable financing of the American Revolutionary War by a Polish born Jewish immigrant to America named Haym Solomon. Which I would go see a rock musical about the financing of a revolution. That sounds amazing.

Emma 26:13

Yeah

Sam 26:14

Yeah. First appearance of this melody, though, was in that show in 1972. Right. And the song was called Sail On Haym. But I must apologize, Emma, nobody thought to record it, at the

Emma 26:25

You mean there's no awful tape recording of plinky plonky school assembly piano to listen to for this one.

Sam 26:32

that.

Emma 26:32

Oh, okay.

Sam 26:34

Because do you remember, we've listened before to demos by a singer called Karine Yeah.

Emma 26:41

Yeah.

Sam 26:41

So Karine Hannah was somebody that Jim was going to produce an album with in the very early two thousands. They recorded four demos which were later leaked. And then hang on, Sometime after these four demos leaked to the internet and the Stein community, Karine and her management decided to pursue other options." Jim's only comment on this project was that"Karine has the best voice I've worked with since Celine Dion," who was the last person he'd worked Yeah, Here's a little burst of Karine's version.

Emma 27:25

Okay. I was glad when it stopped.

Sam 27:29

It's a demo. It's very under produced. Yeah. That album never happened. But then in 2017, about 20 years after that demo. Yeah. She was set to record an album with Jim called Renegade Angel, which was attentive listeners will remember the name that they were going to give to Meat's second album. Which was then lost'cause somebody broke in and stole all the songs from the changing room in somewhere in Canada. One single was released, which was this. Okay.

Emma 28:01

And

Sam 28:01

then the album disappeared again. Oh.

Emma 28:03

Oh.

Sam 28:04

This song is cursed. It really

Soundtrack 28:11

so much.

Emma 28:16

Some bits of that. I quite like.

Sam 28:18

Yeah. I think that there's some good Jim style production on

Emma 28:21

There's some nice guitars in there

Sam 28:22

Um, a

Emma 28:23

sort of low bassy

Sam 28:24

Yeah, I, it's it's got a cool kind of witchy vibe. I the cover is a drawing of Karine in a scary wood with a wolf.

Emma 28:33

Excellent.

Sam 28:34

nice. I like the song overall. It's big and it's stupid and it's much too long.

Emma 28:39

Can I talk about some of the big stupid bits in the song or more specifically some of big stupid lyrics?

Sam 28:44

Yes, please. Is it by any chance, there are secrets I can never tell. There are shadows of darkness in heaven. There are so many suburbs of hell and their hours are 24 7."

Emma 28:58

It wasn't, but Oh, suburbs of

Sam 29:02

suburbs Oh, you live in Hell. Well, so Zone two Hell.

Emma 29:10

No. There's a lyric. Sometimes it's the day, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes it's the night, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It implies that there are other times as well.

Sam 29:19

Oh,

Emma 29:21

that's, it just struck me as really stupid Also there's a lot of repetition of the phrase"crusaders of the heart". Yes. Which to me makes it sound like it's something out of the care bears. Yeah.

Sam 29:36

Oh, okay. I think I'm fixating much more on the crusaders side. It's all I'm thinking of white supremacists, Emma. Sorry.

Emma 29:43

Oh, I went much nicer than that.

Sam 29:45

Yeah.

Emma 29:46

We're very different people, Sam.

Sam 29:47

Indeed. I like crusaders of the heart as a lyric.

Emma 29:50

Oh, it's fun. It's

Sam 29:51

fun.

Emma 29:52

It's dramatic in that silly Jim way.

Sam 29:54

Yeah. Well, the whole song is really, and it weaves in and out of half a dozen different melodies and its roots in musical theatre are incredibly apparent.

Emma 30:04

If this had been done in the good old Meat Loaf days The Bat two days, then it probably

Sam 30:13

I think it is still a lot of fun, but that's mostly because of the effort that Karla and Ellen put in. Because by goodness, they put in a shift on that song. Oh,

Emma 30:23

really do.

Sam 30:24

Yeah. And they lift it up significantly, Let's talk a bit about Braver as an album. Because I've got some interesting quotes from Meat and I've got some colossally boring quotes from Meat.

Emma 30:37

Brilliant.

Sam 30:38

Um, First thing I want to talk about is so I said this was produced by Paul Crook. Mm-hmm. He and Meat didn't completely get on. The biggest problem he and I have is the toaster" Meat Loaf:"His toast sucks." Paul Crook,"he likes his toast chewy. I like mine burnt." Meat Loaf."Yeah. He is fine with guitar and producing. It's just his toast." Bit of fun.

Emma 31:01

This reminds me of when we went to the Brighton Fringe and we couldn't agree over crumpets.

Sam 31:08

I've forgotten that.

Emma 31:09

You like them twice cooked. And I'm not on board with

Sam 31:12

Oh, yeah. You like a soft crumpet?

Emma 31:14

and, not, stupidly soft, but I don't require it to be crunchy.

Sam 31:20

Sorry. I've gotta go home.

Emma 31:22

have I split up the band

Sam 31:24

Crumpet Gate.

Emma 31:27

Gate is Awfully

Sam 31:29

Crumpet Gate my favorite street in York.

Emma 31:33

even an argument. It was just a

Sam 31:35

It was just yeah. conversation. Oh I see your crumpet is less toasted than mine.

Emma 31:39

Yep. How incredibly English?

Sam 31:44

Well, Emma, here's something that hasn't happened between us. Meat Loaf sings all his songs in character. Mm-hmm. And I will get a little insight into that from Meat Loaf's angle in a minute. Yeah. But he chooses a character for all of his Yeah. Some of them are less likable than others. Paul tells a story of a time when they're recording and the character that Meat Loaf singing in is being such an arsehole that he's scares and upsets Paul. So Paul tells him to fuck off, at which point Meat comes out of character and doesn't know why he is being told to fuck off. So he gets annoyed at Paul telling him to fuck off. God. It's like a sitcom. So he gets angry as himself instead of as the character. Oh.

Emma 32:32

Oh. It's like a sitcom, but also it's one of the wankiest things I've heard in a while.

Sam 32:39

Oh, well strap in. Here's a wanky thing. Meat wanted the whole album to be a symphony with no tracks at all. It only has tracks'cause of how iTunes sales works. This album would've been one long track. If he, oh, that's Jim as fuck.

Emma 32:55

If that was a CD it would be coaster material instantly.

Sam 32:59

So Meat getting into character. a few of these songs, particularly the first one on the record, they were written by Jim when he was 19. So Meat decided to do every song as a 19-year-old, Quote."For each song I created his parents, I created his friends, where he went to school. For Who Needs the Young, he's very angry. I'm not gonna tell you what he's angry at." So these are different 19 year olds with different internal lives. Jim has never once told me why he wrote a song and what's it about. He's never once asked me what the character is." That's quite nice. Hmm. That's an interesting insight. This is about the song Souvenirs off the album, which rightly should wait until we cover Souvenirs, but it's so funny, I have to tell you it now. Okay. So"for Souvenirs, I didn't sing anything for about a week'cause I was trying to give him a backstory and make him 19, but he kept being 35 and it was driving me insane. And then it came to the lines of,'I'm not gonna play with you anymore. I'm not gonna play with you anymore.' And I went, well, those are the lines of a 13-year-old. So I went from there and gave that 13-year-old a backstory and then made him six years older. Then I had a 19-year-old."

Emma 34:12

Oh, god, you make it so hard to like you.

Sam 34:20

This is quite interesting. And it's something I'm gonna start looking out for. When he performs on stage, he performs all these in the different character for each song. And he thinks about what each character is going to do with their hands and with the mic and stuff. And I can see Emma is rolling her eyes. Her eyes are gonna roll out of her head. But I think it's quite interesting to look out for that. Now I know he is got that we're

Emma 34:44

have to watch a proper live performance,

Sam 34:47

Just to spot the different characters. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Do you want a very boring story? I've got two boring stories. I dunno if I'll do both.

Emma 34:57

There's always the wonders of editing.

Sam 34:59

The film I'm most proud of is a film called Focus with Laura Dern and William H Macy, written by Arthur Miller, One day Bill Macy and I had a scene. I was sitting in a chair like this and someone comes and sits next to me. I didn't really see who it was, but I looked and it was Arthur Miller and I freaked out totally. I picked up my chair and moved it down the street and hid it behind a tree. And the first AD had already seen me and comes along and says,'where did Meat go?' And I had to go,'I'm down here' and I go up to Bill Macy and lean over and say,'did you know Arthur Miller is here?' And he said,'yeah.' I said, I'm freaked out. And he says,'look, you know what you're doing. Forget he's here. Let's do the scene.'" That's the whole story.

Emma 35:39

Okay. it's an insight

Sam 35:43

It's a bit of an insight. Yeah. Having somebody he deeply respects come and sit next to him and he gets up and runs away. That's the anecdote, not the bit where

Emma 35:51

this is

Sam 35:51

h Macy says, it's all right. You can act.

Emma 35:54

This is why Jim does the words and Meat Loaf doesn't, you'll have to read his autobiography for that.

Sam 36:05

Well, Emma, we've dwelt enough on Meat's press tours. I think it's time for some sort of quiz. Oh,

Emma 36:12

Oh, no.

Sam 36:13

Would you like to do a quiz, Emma? Yeah.

Emma 36:15

Yeah.

Sam 36:16

Would you like to do a quiz, Emma?

Emma 36:17

Yes. Let's do a quiz. Do a quiz. Emma.

Sam 36:19

So can you spot the real review of this song? A for sheer audacious, it's not surprising that the record is garnering such attention." Is it B,"it deserves credit for its gumption at least." Or is it C?"The chorus is so great, they deliver it copious times with increasing hysteria."

Emma 36:41

I think it's B,

Sam 36:42

you think"deserves credit for its gumption at least". Emma, that is from the Miami Herald Uhhuh

Emma 36:48

Uhhuh,

Sam 36:49

and they were Cotton Eye Joe by Rednex.

Emma 36:55

Of course, it was gonna be okay. And

Sam 36:57

if it hadn't been for Cotton Eye Joe, I'm not gonna edit out this silence. So you're down to A or C. Sheer audaciousness, it's not surprising that the record is garnering such attention", or"the chorus is so great, they deliver at copious times with increasing hysteria." I'm really proud that I found these. They could both, they could all be either of them.

Emma 37:29

They could, they really could because, oh, I'll choose C.

Sam 37:34

C was a review from Louder Sound of Meat Loaf.

Emma 37:39

What was a

Sam 37:40

that was also Cotton Eye Joe.

Emma 37:41

So it's gonna be Cotton Eye Joe. Is it?

Sam 37:43

I think that's nice. that I love a bit of Cotton Eye Joe, I listened to it earlier today and I thought, yeah, I would like to listen this once a fortnight for the next six, twelve weeks.

Emma 37:54

You say that now

Sam 37:57

you wanna hear what the people of the internet have to say? they are buffoons to a man. At Dipsis2851."I love this song. It chills me to the bones a masterpiece. You really have to listen to the 11 and a half minute version all the way through to appreciate this gem."

Emma 38:16

No.

Sam 38:16

If you just listened to the five minute single cut, or if you stop listening 12 seconds before the end, you are never gonna appreciate it. It's very lovely exchange here@Paullacey1344"crap" to which at Hank Scorpio 17 m replied"absolutely amazing heart emoji". So there you go. That's the, two sides And finally, from at Timzamborough"coming to a car boot sale near you". Shall we rate it?

Emma 38:50

We shall.

Sam 38:51

Well, Emma, this is another song written by the maestro Jim Steinman. Mm-hmm. But is this one of his most maestro works? Is this a Jim Steinman? A Jim Fineman or Jim Declineman? What is it?

Emma 39:06

It's another tricky one.

Sam 39:07

What this comes down to we've not got a brilliant version of it.

Emma 39:12

No.

Sam 39:12

Is a brilliant version of it possible?

Emma 39:15

Tricky.

Sam 39:16

Would that brilliant version deserve to be in the company of Bat out of Hell Paradise by the Dashboard Light, et cetera.

Emma 39:23

Oh, sorry. I thought that we were struggling.

Sam 39:25

Oh, you struggling between the bottom two? Yeah. Oh, it's

Emma 39:28

Definitely not a Steinman

Sam 39:31

think it could have been a Steinman had the brilliant version existed, maybe.

Emma 39:35

I'm happy to agree on a Fineman, but I it won't be going on any

Sam 39:40

Well, do you wanna hear about what Declinements we've had? Yeah. Requiem Metal, the Dream Engine, brackets, dreams, brackets, engines, the Want Ad Hulk Hogan's theme. All the Declinemans we've had so far have been...

Emma 39:57

this is,

Sam 39:57

troubling, is it? It's troubling, but it's not peak

Emma 40:00

No.

Sam 40:00

So I think it's definitely a, I think

Emma 40:02

it's a bottom end of Fineman.

Sam 40:04

It's a lower tier Jim Fineman

Emma 40:10

Just don't make me listen to it again.

Sam 40:12

Oh, I do, Oh

Emma 40:15

no.

Sam 40:17

Ding. So that was our songs this week. was. did you enjoy those songs? Do you have opinions about them? Let us know. chatoutofhell@gmail.com We're overrunning, so we're not gonna do messages today. But Emma, what songs are we gonna do nex t time?

Emma 40:36

I'm gonna bring, you Never Can Be Too Sure about The Girl From Midnight of The Lost and Found.

Sam 40:40

That doesn't sound like any misogyny will appear in it whatsoever. And I'm gonna bring a song I can't remember hearing. I've just picked it based off the name. And that's Rock and Roll Hero from the Album Blind Before I Stop.

Emma 40:53

I bet that's dead

Sam 40:54

It's probably dead good. It makes me think of Guitar Hero. Yeah.

Emma 40:58

I never played Guitar Hero

Sam 40:59

What?

Emma 41:01

I know,

Sam 41:01

Right, well we're gonna go back to my house and play Guitar Hero all night. Like we're 22 Again.

Emma 41:06

I can't play Guitar Hero all night tomorrow I become 42. So I need to go to bed now.

Sam 41:16

Let us know your opinions on those if you have them, or if you wanna suggest songs for us to cover, please do drop us some suggestions. We've been working through them at the end of every series, so I'd love to get some more chatoutofhell@gmail.com for all of those, keep your general Meat Loaf thoughts and anecdotes flying in. Did you see Meat Loaf on Channel Four's, the Crystal Maze in the nineties? Let us know. chatoutofhell@gmail.com. us five stars on your podcast apps of choice. Make it your New Year's resolution to recommend Chat out of Hell to somebody you know every day. every Day. Day. Every single day, a

Emma 41:50

the whole year.

Sam 41:52

don't forget to use the hashtag. The chicken ones are really nice.

Emma 41:58

That is definitely this.

Sam 41:59

That's our series hashtag this year. If you do work for Heck's sausages and you want to give us a tour chatoutofhell@gmail.com. I assume it's quite like Willy Wonka.

Emma 42:09

Oh no. We're gonna swim in a lake of sausage meat,

Sam 42:13

or

Emma 42:13

it be gravy?

Sam 42:14

Oh yeah. A

Emma 42:15

northern, isn't it? Driving

Sam 42:16

across across some gravy.

Emma 42:19

I wonder what the sausage factory oompa loompas would

Sam 42:22

It's grumpy northern men in flat caps. Hey up darling.'Ow do you do? I've got some old school sexism for you. Cheer up darling. You're prettier when you smile. Oh no. Get my tea on table. I'll be home in a while. Improv. It's easy, Yeah. Anything else to add? No. Okay, good. Well that was the start of series six of Chat Out of Hell and there'll be another Chat out of Hell in two weeks time. So we'll see you all then. Bye, Bye, Bow. No. No. ding.