Chat out of Hell

Episode 6.4 - Left in the Dark | A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste

• Emma Crossland & Sam Wilkinson • Season 6 • Episode 4

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Off we go again! Time for us to analyse the saddest Jim Steinman you've ever heard, the fairly saddest Barbra Streisand, and just a regular Meat Loaf. 

And with those three gathered, we can get some answers. Answers to questions like:

- What made the Everly Brothers fall out?

- How many Steinman stage shows featured a motorbike in the big first act closer?

- How many veterans of the UK military credit Jim Steinman with their career success?

PLUS a lot of chat about feelings, a child doing reggae and all the usual sundry nonsense.

Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com, find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Chat out of Hell and don't forget to use the hashtag #thechickenonesareareallynice

Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy. Music extracts on this episode:

Left in the Dark by Jim Steinman from the album Bad For Good (1981)
Left in the Dark by Barbra Streisand from the album Emotion (1984)
Left in the Dark by Meat Loaf from the album Welcome to the Neighbourhood (1995)
Lämnad i Mörkret by Cecilia Vennersten from the album Cecilia Vennersten (1995)
A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste by Meat Loaf from the album The Very Best of Meat Loaf (1998)
A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste from the Whistle Down the Wind Cast Album (1998)

Send us Fan Mail

Sam:

Hey Emma, what is this?

Emma:

This is Chat Out Of Hell. It's a podcast about the music of Meat Loaf and his occasional friend and musical collaborator, Jim Steinman.

Sam:

Cool. Yeah. Rad Man. Who's Meat Loaf?

Emma:

Meat Loaf was a singer from Texas who KD Lang refused to meet because he was named after a meat product and she was a vegetarian. Even though he was one too. Who's Jim Steinman?

Sam:

Jim Steinman was a songwriter from New York, who, in 1992 worked on an album with the punk band, Iron Prostate. They broke up during recording, so they didn't have to hang out with Jim anymore.

Emma:

And who are we?

Sam:

We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland. And we know way more than the average person about the worlds of Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman, but also nowhere near enough as some of the internet. Welcome to Chat Out of Hell. Hello.

Emma:

Hey Sam.

Sam:

Hello, Emma. Shall we talk to the listeners about what we got up to last night? Yeah. So, what did we get up to last night?

Emma:

For my birthday, Sam bought me and him tickets to go and see Meat Loaf by candlelight at Selby Abbey.

Sam:

So for listeners, not in the, well, nevermind, not in the UK, not in this very tiny corner of the UK that we occupy. Meat Loaf by candlelight it's been touring around big cathedrals and massive churches for a few years, and now towards the end of its run it's been appearing at small churches in regional market towns.

Emma:

Yes, I think that's a fair description of what happened last night.

Sam:

A lovely big church for such a small town, but,

Emma:

Entirely the wrong shape for a concert.

Sam:

Tell that to monks, Emma.

Emma:

Also, it was more like Meat Loaf by phone light than by candlelight, wasn't

Sam:

it? Well, it was. I rather feel we were missold that. There were six candles and they were all on the stage Yeah. Surrounded by plexiglass screens so that the exciting musicians couldn't knock them over and burn down a church.

Emma:

I was expecting something a bit more atmospheric

Sam:

not to say we didn't have a good

Emma:

time. Had a blast..

Sam:

we had fun time. It was just some West End singers and a band playing some Meat Loaf in a church, which is a fun space designed for music. Yeah. But not this kind of music. How subversive, how Jim,

Emma:

Jim would've loved it.

Sam:

Jim would've loved the idea of it.

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

One thing I, enjoyed slash noted about it was that the performance was just an hour long Yeah. So that the olds could get to bed in time. Yeah. And yet they still needed three male singers to do the part of one Meat Loaf.

Emma:

Yep. Definitely had more of a boy band

Sam:

There was definitely a boy band vibe. Also, one of the singers bore a strong resemblance to friend of the show Eddie French.

Emma:

Yes. Yeah. That was odd.

Sam:

Yep.

Emma:

It has fed into my feeling of hell is other people that I've been really developing quite a lot lately.

Sam:

Crikey. So Emma's just come back from holiday. This is Emma in post-holiday excitement mode,

Emma:

Oh, I'm post

Sam:

fucking Sartre.

Emma:

Sorry. I'm post-holiday which means I'm extra sad because I want to still be on holiday. And hell is other people. Because on the flight there was a man sitting very close to me eating boiled eggs out of a bag. So the hell is other people and hell is other people because the people sitting next to me at the concert were not only moaning about the fact that there were songs other than Meat Loaf songs included. Bonnie Tyler,"what the fuck are you doing Bonnie Tyler for" was a direct

Sam:

And there was a complaint about Celine Dion as well.

Emma:

All coming back to me Celine Dion.

Sam:

We should have leaned over and educated them, Emma.

Emma:

Oh, I'd run out of energy by that I think you'll find. They were playing with their phones all bloody night, and I'm just turning into an angry old man. At one point one of the singers encouraged everybody to get their phones out, torches on to wave at the band, like we used to do with cigarette lighters. So while the act may have got to see the glorious torch light, what anybody sitting towards the back saw was everybody's home screen. You've

Sam:

a lot of pictures of

Emma:

So hundreds of pictures of people's grandkids or pets.

Sam:

It was a data protection nightmare, Emma.

Emma:

it was fun.

Sam:

Anyway, that's our opinions on that. But Emma, what is this normally?

Emma:

This is a jukebox podcast where Sam and I both bring a Meat Loaf song to the table to dissect and discuss and then rate on our Meat Loaf and or Jim Steinman scales,,

Sam:

what songs have we brought today?

Emma:

I've brought A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste. What have you brought?

Sam:

I've brought Left in the Dark.

Emma:

Lovely stuff. Shall we go with Left in the Dark first?

Sam:

We'll go with Left in the Dark first. left in the Dark has been recorded by Jim Steinman, then Barbra Streisand, then Meat Loaf. So we've got some songs to listen to. My favourite version is definitely Jim, so if you can only be bothered with one, go listen to that. Go away. Find your YouTube or your Spotifys or your sad men sitting alone in the bedroom singing to themselves. Listen to Left in the Dark. We're gonna do that now. That's how that works.

Soundtrack:

Will you tell me where? You tell me when?

Sam:

Oh, Jim.

Emma:

Oh, Jim.

Sam:

Oh, Jim.

Emma:

Oh, Jim, the Kermit the Frog. He's at his most Kermit in this, I

Sam:

He is. He is. don't believe Jim ever had a guest slot on the Muppet show, he usually could have done, Poor Jim.

Emma:

It's a heartbreaker of a song.

Sam:

It's a proper tear jerker. Yeah. I like Jim's version the most, not because he's the best at singing it, heaven knows. But because he does portray such a believable, desperate loser. In Still Beating, do you remember that, Jim Steinman fanzine we picked up. So that's, it's Still Beating songs for Jim Steinman by Claire Napier and friends. There's a lovely quote summarizing this song as"guy who has been cheated on, tries really hard to be cool about it. Fails."

Emma:

About sums it up,

Sam:

it Yeah. Oh, we've all been there in that awful, desperate moment where you know it's over, but you're willing to make any kind of desperate bargain.

Emma:

I'm really bad for that. Yeah. Oh God.

Sam:

Oh, It's the album Closer On Bad For Good. Yep. Which is Jim's solo album, 1981. Nominally the album closer. It's the last track on the LP. Yes. But as we might recall, the LP came packaged with a seven inch disc. Yeah. Which was supposed to contain, and I can't even get through it. A Prelude and a an epilogue to the album. So the idea was that you, listened to side A of the seven inch to listen to the Storm, an instrumental, you'd listen to the LP and then you'd come back to listen to and Roll Dreams come through.

Emma:

I bet loads of people did that.

Sam:

Oh, that's a narrative jar, isn't it? Oh, so left in the dark. But don't worry about it. It's rock and

Emma:

roll. Just imagine the faff of, right, you've gotta put the seven inch on first. Yeah. Taking it off side one, side two. And then the second side of the, are you just not bothering, are you?

Sam:

I imagine not. And that's why, weirdly enough, my CD release isn't two separate CDs. They just stuck the extra tracks on the end. Yeah. Like mums did when they were burning CDs in the late 90s. late

Emma:

You gotta fill it up. These CDs don't grow on trees. You fill up every minute of that thing

Sam:

Uhhuh. That's Jim's attitude and that's mums's attitude. The tune has its origins in a song called Could She Be The One from More Than You Deserve. The stage show where Meat and Jim met.

Emma:

can hear

Sam:

Yes. Influence is a very generous term to some extent, I have a lot of respect for Jim going, do you know what? This is better actually. I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna keep doing it until somebody buys copies of it. It's also one of the songs that was famously stolen from a dressing room in Toronto in 78. Oh no. An earlier draft of this song in 78 was one of the ones that was nicked and is now in the possession some man in Toronto. Gosh. Going around parties What do you think of the song,

Emma:

I like it. I first heard the Meat Loaf version which I'm sure we're going to come to in a bit.'cause that was from Welcome to the Neighbourhood. it's a soft one.'Cause it's a heartbreaker.

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

I do remember thinking, well, why are you putting up with this listening to it?

Sam:

Isn't it? Yeah. It's awful from the outside, but we have all been on the inside of that,

Emma:

It's very recognizable. Quite a, a hard listen in that why are you putting up with it kind of a way.

Sam:

Yeah. Just so desperately sad. Yeah. And like I said, Jim's version is my favourite because Jim is such a believably, desperately sad person.

Emma:

He does sound like a sad teenager in

Sam:

He does. And what I also actually like, different versions do or don't have this, a spoken intro. Where did he touch you and how did it feel? And why did you let it begin? What did you whisper and when did you cry? And where do you think it will end? How long did he do it? And why did you stop? Did he get to try anything new? How good was he, honestly? And where did you go and who made the very first move?

Emma:

Oh, God, these are questions that you don't want

Sam:

Right. But they're quite pleading in that first half. Yeah. And then there's a closing epilogue monologue where it's quite angry and actually, you know what? Fuck you. And there's a, and that is quite real as well, the realization that you're never gonna recover this relationship and it transforms grief into anger. Oh. I have a quote from Jimmy. I write a song, thinking about a movie or a play. It's hard for me to write unless I can visualize it in a film or on stage. So I'll just make up a whole movie and write the song for that. Left in the dark. Was for a teenage Othello."Okay,

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

I get that. Yeah. Yeah. A lower stakes Othello, I presume. yeah. Meat Loaf loves it. Yeah. Meat Loaf infamously isn't mega keen on a lot of the stuff out of Bad For Good? No. Even though he later covers it. But he says I do love left in the dark. I love the stuff that was different from what was on Bat.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

And it is, there's nothing like this on bat, I think, or really in a lot of Jim's oeuvre

Emma:

No. Jim doesn't do the heartbreak side of it as well.

Sam:

Emotional honesty. Yeah. Normally he'd stick a motorbike on it, stack up motorbikes until you can't hear your heart over the sound of Brum. Brum.

Emma:

It is a bleak song. It's not one to listen to if you too are feeling bleak.

Sam:

Are you off the school of like, let's listen to something fun and poppy when I'm feeling sad?

Emma:

It depends on the kind of sad. Depends on how, how big the sad is. When the sad is really big, then I'm afraid it's Radio Four all the way

Sam:

That's what I listen to when I'm I

Emma:

can't cope with music if the sad is

Sam:

real, all you want is speech radio and soap operas about farmers.

Emma:

I just need to be constantly distracted from the noise in my own head. And music doesn't do that.'cause music really heightens emotion. I think when I was younger. I spent a lot of nights weeping while listening to such songs. As an adult who's gotta get shit done I can't wallow like that. And also I know what it does to me. Yeah. So this is self preservation and this kicked in after a breakup with a significant ex when I just couldn't listen to music for quite a long time. I just went for noise, like talking, I felt better if there was voices and conversation

Sam:

like leaving a dog alone in the house,

Emma:

leaving a dog alone in the house. But I'm fine.

Sam:

Well, I've unintentionally dug Emma into a deep emotional hole.

Emma:

What I will do though speaking of the deep emotional hole, what I will do is are times when I feel like I need a bit of prompting to emote. Shall we say? Okay, I could do with a cry or something like that. And it won't just spontaneously come. That's when songs like this really help. When you can allow yourself to luxuriate in the misery. And that's quite cathartic. I sound mental, oh God, I only saw my therapist yesterday. I think I need to book in for another appointment quite quickly.

Sam:

And there was me thinking to myself, wow, Emma's really in tune with herself.

Emma:

Oh,'cause you were looking at me like I was sounding mental. Yeah,

Sam:

Yeah, but you know it. Well, Emma, we're all really sad for Jim. With his poor broken heart. heart. Shall we cheer ourselves up by listening to Barbra Streisand with her poor broken heart? Yeah, let's go for it. Okay, so this is Barbra Streisand's version from her album Emotion in 1984. There is a video for It's got Kris Kristofferson in it

Emma:

Has it?

Sam:

If that doesn't lure you in, I don't know what will.

Soundtrack:

There are many. You tell me you tell,

Sam:

Emma, tell the listeners what you've just seen.

Emma:

Oh, that's a video of its time, isn't it? Lot of smoking in that video. Yeah.

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

Don't see that anymore. It's oddly jarring. That video was I mean it was just the story of the song really, wasn't it?

Sam:

Yes, but with some extra. So Barbra plays a lounge singer. Yes. Whose devious partner Kris Kristofferson

Emma:

is doing it with somebody

Sam:

He's doing it with somebody else. Yeah. And then Barbra keeps skipping to these sort of 1930s noir fantasy sequences where she plays a detective in a trench coat with a hat who does even more smoking.

Emma:

so much smoking.

Sam:

I dunno if you noticed, there's a very good bit where she takes a massive drag of a cigarette and then sings a whole

Emma:

version. Yes. Yes. that breath. That is a skill, isn't it, to be able to smoke,

Sam:

sing.

Emma:

The bronchitis must be horrific. My favourite bits though, were every time there's a clock shown the line, quarter to three. Yeah. And a big neon clock showing quarter to three is on screen.

Sam:

Just so you're completely clear. Uh,

Emma:

But then later on when when Barbra walks in on Kris Kristofferson at it with another girl, the other girl knocks an alarm clock onto the floor. And it smashes. And it too says quarter to three. Ooh.

Sam:

The sad hour, the

Emma:

the saddest of hours. It's not my favourite version. No, No,

Sam:

Fair enough. It's all right. It's all right. Yeah. The opening monologue was done by Holly Sherwood. This is a big full Jim production. Jim's producing and arranging. We've got Max on drums. We've got Roy on piano, Rick's on guitars. Yeah. I'm first naming everybody now. we're all just pals Pals, Rory is on backing along with Eric and Holly Sherwood. I've full named Holly Sherwood.'cause every time I hear the name Holly, it always makes me think of the comedian Holly Walsh. Okay. So I've, I've never seen pictures of Holly Sherwood, so I'm just picturing

Emma:

you just picture Holly Walsh. Fair enough.

Sam:

Yeah. Barbara Streisand is Celine Dion's hero.

Emma:

Really?

Sam:

So there's a, fun link. nice Across the, the ladies that Jim's worked with. Fun Barbra Streisand fact. Her stage name Barbara Streisand. Her birth name, is Barbara Streisand, but Barbara is spelled differently. Amazing. Her birth name is B-A-R-B-A-R-A. Her stage name is B-A-R-B-R-A. Barbara. Barbara. Barbara.

Emma:

Barbra.

Sam:

She was the first woman to receive the Golden Globe for Best Director.

Emma:

Coming back to that, that's,

Sam:

that's That's fine. Yeah. Go women, whatever. But tell me more about Barbara.

Emma:

Barbara, do you think that that was just a mistake that she then had to run with?

Sam:

Let me find it. Hang on. She was convinced to enter a talent contest at a nightclub in Greenwich Village. She performed two songs after which there was a stunned silence from the audience, followed by thunderous applause when she was pronounced the winner. She was invited back and sang at the club for several weeks. During this time, disliking her name. She changed it from Barbara to Barbra.

Emma:

Fine,

Sam:

fine. Yeah. You

Emma:

do you. Love.

Sam:

Would you do that? Would you like switch up to Emma with three M's

Emma:

or no. No, why? The, the noise is the same

Sam:

Maybe it isn't if you are saying

Emma:

Barbara. Barbara. Barbara. Apologies

Sam:

to the Americans. Yeah. Emma's gone and semantic satiationed herself.

Emma:

Sorry.

Sam:

But if Barbara and Barbara sound different in your accent, do let us know. Ba twats.

Emma:

Of the worst kind.

Sam:

Number 50 in the us. 85 in the UK. Crikey. Australia and Belgium 27 did slightly better in Europe, so, not amazing, but better than you and I have ever done. So,

Emma:

yeah. But we've never tried.

Sam:

Yeah. That's the only thing holding us back. Yes,

Emma:

yes. Absolutely.

Sam:

That and the spellings of our names compared with their phonetic sounds. sounds Steinman enjoyed working with, Streisand, he said although she wasn't entirely comfortable with the song, he told Tower Records magazine,"she didn't wanna sing some of the lyrics on my song Left in the Dark'cause they conflicted with her feminist ideals. Amazing voice." Well the song is so recontextualized when it's Yeah. And particularly in the video that we've just seen, it ends with Kris Kristofferson coming back to Barbra and them kissing at the end. Yeah. And then making up. A wronged woman being all pathetic and getting a man back is such a different context to a young man being the vulnerable one

Emma:

Yeah, I feel that this song comes across better when sung by a

Sam:

man. Yeah. Agreed. And I think that's'cause Well there's a few reasons, but there's a lot of torch songs by and about. And for, for women,

Emma:

there's loads of songs for women these

Sam:

they've got enough songs.

Emma:

where are the songs for men. I think the reason that I like this song, particularly from the male perspective, is because it's so and it's not about getting back together with somebody that's done you wrong. It's about still wanting that person, even though the relationship is

Sam:

you know, It's over, but you are not able to act on that

Emma:

yet. Yeah. Because mourning a relationship is hard and horrible. you've gone from being together with somebody To probably never seeing them again. That's brutal. It's, it, it is something that you need to take time to mourn. And this song is the beginning phase of that.

Sam:

I should have known that it was coming to this, but I must have been blind. I bet you've still got a trace of his love in your eyes and you've still got his eyes on your mind.

Emma:

it's that self torture that you do after such an event.

Sam:

I agree. Yes. In a traditional gender role sense, the male vulnerability of it is what makes it such an interesting

Emma:

Yeah. The female vulnerability of it is still incredibly valid. Yes, absolutely. But I think what twists it in this version is that coming back together at the end. The taking him back. Yeah. And that doesn't sit very comfortably.

Sam:

Mm. Again, that recontextualizes the entire song. Not her working herself through the fact that this is over. it's her working out what she needs to do to ignore his infidelity. Yeah. is, yeah. I can see why she had thoughts

Emma:

it. Yeah. Yeah.

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

It's not a song for a woman to sing.

Sam:

That's Emma Crossland. Telling women what to do. I'm gonna be

Emma:

gonna be do, I'm gonna be clipped out, aren't I? Fuck. That's gonna be somebody's ringtone

Sam:

shit.

Emma:

shit.

Sam:

Just so we're clear, could you give us the full list of things that women can't do

Emma:

Oh God.

Sam:

He, he, he, bit of fun. Well tell you what, shall we go back to a man singing it like a man's supposed to do for men?

Emma:

Yeah. I'm tired of these weak, pathetic female voices.

Sam:

Good.

Emma:

I need a big strong man.

Sam:

Well, here's the biggest, strongest man

Emma:

in music.

Sam:

This is Meat Loaf covering this in his, album. Welcome to the Neighbourhood in 1995. Oh, I did the DJ voice there. Shall I leave that in? Yes. This is Meat Loaf from 1995.

Emma:

Later, traffic and Weather.

Soundtrack:

But I must been blind. I bet you still got a of his love in your eyes and you still got his eyes on your mind.

Sam:

Meat Loaf's version there. And maybe it's the fact that we've just played three versions back to back. But my first instinct was, come on Meat Loaf, get over it.

Emma:

See, this is the first version I ever heard and so it's one I'm the most familiar with. I think there's some excellent emotion in there. There's the lovely bit where he is doing the, you tell me who, you tell me where. You tell me when. Yeah. Then it's, but don't tell me now. Yes. I don't need The move from the rage to the kind of resignation mm-hmm. Of that. I think that's a really nice bit in there. But it does go on

Sam:

it and all of all three versions are about eight minutes.

Emma:

Listening to the dirgy song three times

Sam:

But it is more dirgy when Meat Loaf does it. Obviously, he's a much better technical singer than Jim. Yeah. But I don't believe that Meat Loaf's ever been in this position. He's had to imagine a character doing it.

Emma:

Yeah. I feel like it really has happened

Sam:

yes. Meat Loaf did perform this a lot in his tour set. Yeah. It was the last one in the pre encore bit. Okay. The main chunk of show, he performed it sitting in a big armchair with just a little lamp by him.

Emma:

I'm trying to think if I saw that. I feel like I did, but the memories are vague

Sam:

Yeah. That's fair enough. You were young, you didn't think you were gonna record a podcast

Emma:

it

Sam:

30 years later

Emma:

If I'd have known then what I know now.

Sam:

Few other versions won't listen to'em. It was translated into Swedish for a singer called Cecilia Wennersten.

Emma:

Yeah, that's not for

Sam:

Cecilia Wennersten, singing, apologies, Sweden, Lämnad i mörkret from her self-titled album. This is another of Jim's links to Eurovision'cause Cecilia came second place in Sweden's contest to pick their Eurovision Yeah, there you go. Not for you.

Emma:

Not for me.

Sam:

Fair enough. Well, how about my favourite cover version, Emma.

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

Which comes with a quiz attached.

Emma:

Ooh.

Sam:

Which of these is not gonna be a feature of this final cover version? A, a dog barking on every fourth bar. B, soaring fiddles C rattling through the song at ridiculous dancey pace, or D, a child singer.

Emma:

So, which of these is not, which of

Sam:

is not a feature of this version?

Emma:

Oh, which one is the most likely to be in Cotton Eye, Joe, with the soaring? I'm hoping for a dance beat, but it's a bit Child singer's a weird choice for this. Oh God. Sam, you've got me everything now. I think it's. the lie is the dance

Sam:

let's find out.

Emma:

What the fuck was that?

Sam:

I don't think it's fair for me to name this because we hate it so utterly, it's totally stupid. There won't be a clip of that going in the podcast, but that was 1993, a 17-year-old boy doing a sort of reggae dance hall cover. Yeah, Weird samples appear once in it and then go away. So we had a little xylophone that we heard,

Emma:

Yeah. And there was a

Sam:

was a trumpet

Emma:

but at least the dog

Sam:

dog

Emma:

consistent throughout. Yeah.

Sam:

not sure if it's either a dog or one of them weird bits of percussion, but it sounded very doglike

Emma:

it, it had doggy

Sam:

Mm-hmm. So Emma, you were wrong. You did lose

Emma:

Yeah. yeah. I, I know.

Sam:

All of those other traits were of course traits of Cotton Eye Joe by Rednex. Good stuff. So it's two all now. And anybody take this as we go into the final third of this series. Emma. Wow. That song three minutes. 50. So the way to handle Jim Steinman's overwriting is just to race on through it. it you wanna hear what the people of the internet have to say? On Jim's version, here's a comment."This should be taught in school. As should all Steinman albums. I was the simple guy on the thick table in school in the eighties in the UK. I had to join the army. There was no prospects, but the military and this album set me up for the rest of my life" now. Fair enough. this album helped him find some purpose in his life, but this is the second time that people have attributed Jim Steinman to their success in the military. Do you remember Bear Grills crediting I'd do anything for love for him getting into the SAS?

Emma:

Yeah

Sam:

Was the entire 1980s army just inspired by Jim Steinman songs.

Emma:

I'm so baffled by all of that.

Sam:

One on the Barbra version."I used to play this song over and over every weekend in Toronto, in my little studio apartment, and I would hear the neighbours knocking on my door to turn it down. Barbra, you don't know how talented and gifted you are." And on behalf of everybody who's had neighbours, who won't turn their fucking music down, I hate you. There's a lot of comments, obviously, a lot of people seeing themselves in this. Yeah. And there's more than a few philanders in the comments being like, eh, it seems all right.

Emma:

Seems

Sam:

Seems fine. I philandering's alright, isn't it? Anyway, that's what the people of the internet think. But Emma, what do we think?

Emma:

what do we think

Sam:

Is it time to rate this song? be. it is. We're gonna be using our Jim Steinman song rating scale, which runs from Jim Steinman at the top for his finest magnum opus. Jim Fineman in the middle for his finest in the other sense, regular and Jim Declineman at the bottom for his

Emma:

mini magnums that they gave us on an airplane.

Sam:

Lovely stuff. I was gonna go for Magnum PIs. PIs Ah, what is it?

Emma:

For me it's, it's middle ground. It's Jim Fineman.

Sam:

Do you think?

Emma:

Do you think Do you think it's a Steinman? I,

Sam:

I think this is an absolute Steinman. It's not a traditional Steinman.

Emma:

I'm happy to put it as a Steinman. It's not one that I would put on a playlist, I think But I appreciate

Sam:

That makes sense. Yeah.

Emma:

But I do appreciate that.

Sam:

Because we've stymied ourselves with our stupid song rating scale. Yeah. This isn't the most Jim Steinman song.

Emma:

No.

Sam:

But it is a very good song that Jim Steinman has

Emma:

it's, not what I'm going to The Meat Loaf slash Steinman Shop Well, I

Sam:

I am,

Emma:

but I might pick it up while I'm there.

Sam:

Okay.'cause it's on the, the little stanchion three for two. Yeah, do you know what I think And that's why this is a Jim Steinman. Steinman. It's a Jim Steinman. So Emma, what song did you bring?

Emma:

I've brought A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste. There are a few different versions of this. There's the version from Whistle Down the Wind which was the Jim Steinman and Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. But we are going to start out with 1998's Meat Loaf version released as part of the Whistle Down the Wind concept album, where a bunch of artists recorded versions of the songs from the musical and was also featured on the Very Best of Meat Loaf later that year. No video for this, so go and find it wherever you find music, whether that be Apple Music, Spotify, a CD, or down the back of the sofa.

Sam:

Apple Music. No, I know. I, I don't even know what episode number we're on now and I've never once mentioned Apple Music.

Emma:

No.

Sam:

Just goes to show how embedded Emma is in the Apple

Emma:

the

Soundtrack:

a terrible thing to waste. One of these

Emma:

Boom.

Sam:

Bing.

Emma:

What do you think to that then, Sam? So do I It's huge.

Sam:

It's massive. It is everything that Jim and Lloyd Webber do well. It's songs that never end.

Emma:

With so many acts to them.

Sam:

Yeah. Ridiculous imagery. All the good stuff. Motorbikes,

Emma:

Girls. Girls,

Sam:

girls.

Emma:

all the things that I guess we go to the Meat Loaf shop Yeah. This was the version that was released on, as I said, the concept album. Yeah. Where they got a load of stars to perform songs from the musical, but those songs were adapted. When we talked about No Matter What. Mm-hmm. That version had been created for Boyzone to perform. And likewise I only heard it for the first time on the Very Best of Meat Loaf album that came out that same year. Which had loads of greatest hits on, and then a few new bits and pieces that weren't that well hits at all. Weren't. Yeah. And I know you have feelings about that. Yeah. I I have feelings about it too. I'm all for it. I like it when they throw a couple of new songs and this, I wouldn't have heard this without that. Yeah. I love this. I loved it right from the very first time I heard it. It's big and silly and

Sam:

Mm-hmm. I can see why it's not that well known though, because it is, it's a little harder to get into than a Bat out of Hell or an I'd Do Anything for love.

Emma:

definitely. But for, for a proper Meat Loaf fan, I think this is something that you would like. Yeah. Other people that appeared on that album, obviously we've touched on Boyzone

Sam:

Uhhuh.

Emma:

but Bonnie's on there as well on there. Yeah. But Bonnie's on this is

Sam:

is, she

Emma:

The duet Tyre Tracks and Broken Hearts, that's Meat Loaf and Bonnie

Sam:

Ring The secret. Bonnie Tyler klaxon. wha wha

Emma:

ding. D

Sam:

that. I do like that. Just to provide some context for what just happened, when we rang the Secret Bonnie Tyler Klaxon, Maisie, the dog looked up at me as if to say you loser.

Emma:

Maisie isn't really that into Bonnie Tyler is she?

Sam:

It it has caused a

Emma:

Yeah. Yeah. I thought it might.

Sam:

Yeah.

Emma:

I thought you'd enjoy that little, that little fact. Bonnie's song from this is Tyre Tracks and Broken Hearts. That's what it's called. Yeah. And so it has all of that in it, but it's, it's a sexier version. think we probably need to cover that at some point, Sam. Oh, I think you're gonna enjoy it because it's Bonnie at her horniest. So you're gonna be well on board with that one. We should cover that.

Sam:

Okay. That's good. I might Oh, well, you know how I love to cover the

Emma:

Bonnie songs. I know you do. I think that would be a special treat, you're gonna love this. are gonna love this. we talked about Whistle down the Wind before Yeah. With the Boyzone mega hit. So I'm not gonna dwell too much on that this time. Mm-hmm. This is one of the, major songs from it though. Okay. The story in Whistle Down the Wind is that a girl finds a convict and believes him to be Jesus and lets him live in her barn. Yep. There's lots of other subplots about the village looking for this guy and also about the love story between this young girl who is growing up and a potential suitor as well. And so all three of those characters are present in this song. Okay. Let's have a bit of a listen. Listeners at home, if you are interested, go for it, but I don't feel like you're gonna miss out tremendously if you don't decide to listen

Sam:

what a pitch

Emma:

that was the musical version, which feels long.

Sam:

It was quite long. did have one of my favourite musical tropes in it though. That's when somebody is singing a song and somebody else just pops in every now and then with one line. Like,"this is my opinion on that."

Emma:

I love that.

Sam:

"I think that's interesting. Do go on."

Emma:

I'm still here." That's what they're saying. me? I'm still here."

Sam:

I'm in this scene too."

Emma:

I think that was quite a big production in the show. Mm-hmm. there it. There was a motorbike in it. Jim,

Sam:

was it as good as the motorbike in Bat Out of Hell, though, Emma,

Emma:

Well, we, we'll never know unless we go and see it. It's telling more of the story of the show, whereas the Meat Loaf version doesn't have to do that. No. So he can just crack on with the silliness and the Bonnie Tyler duet. And I think I prefer that, but it's probably aimed more at me than the musical that I haven't

Sam:

Yes. And you are not a big musicals person

Emma:

That's, I'm not,

Sam:

i, I did like hearing the original musical version and getting the context of how much they've rocked it up for

Emma:

They really have rocked it up. There's a lot more soaring guitar in there. Yeah. And I'm here for that.

Sam:

Yeah. Yeah. This, this version felt a little bit weedy by comparison.

Emma:

Yeah. Meat Loaf wasn't very happy that Boyzone got the big hit from

Sam:

He's never happy.

Emma:

He's not a happy man. He's quite a jealous man. And it just struck me when I was listening to it the other day there's the lines,"the loneliest words you could ever know. If only, if only it was so. The emptiest words that there'll ever be. It could have been me. It could have been me." That strikes a chord with Boyzone in mind, don't you

Sam:

Oh, it does, but don't forget, Meat Loaf sang this song as a character and therefore Meat Loaf the man had nothing to do with the emotions

Emma:

Yes. absolutely. Of course, Meat Loaf the man was not present. It was just the character that he had created, especially for this song. just, I found that quite amusing and I wonder if that's a little Jim joke in there. We've got the Tyre tracks and Broken Hearts in there. Yeah. Which we've heard before. Tyre Tracks and Broken Hearts is its own song on Whistle Down the Wind. Yeah. But it prominent phrase in both versions of this song. Also we've heard it before. Because it first appeared in Peel Out.

Sam:

Of course it did.

Emma:

course it did. So tyre tracks and broken hearts are what Jim Steinman's all about.

Sam:

Yeah. Well there was also we'll never be as young as we are right now in there. Yeah. Which is another Jim classic.

Emma:

Oh, yes. And true of every second

Sam:

Accurate, but you don't need to keep reminding us, Jim. Okay.

Emma:

No. So I thought that that was gonna be it for this, but while I was digging around, I was looking for the lyrics for the show tune version. Yeah. And I found something else. I found a completely different set of lyrics. And so I started a little trail and fell down a rabbit hole. There's another Steinman pen song called A Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste.

Sam:

Oh, he's done this before.

Emma:

Yep. This song has nothing to do with the whistle down the wind version. It just shares a title with it. It has more in common with Out of the Frying Pan and Into the Fire, as you'll hear when we give it a listen. Okay. The first version of it that we're gonna listen to is from the wonderful archive of Jim and Rory Dodd demos that are on YouTube.

Sam:

I'm not sure what to make of it. Emma.

Emma:

It's odd, isn't it?

Sam:

it's very poppy. Yeah.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

It could easily be one of any early eighties pop hits.

Emma:

Did you recognize the piano?

Sam:

Did I recognize the piano?

Emma:

To start with, it's very soft. Yes. And then it kicks in. Yeah. And when it kicks in, did you recognize that? Riff. That piano riff?

Sam:

No.

Emma:

Outta the frying pattern into the fire,

Sam:

oh, hang on, let me go there Yes.

Emma:

Yeah. Yeah. So that's where,

Sam:

that's, that

Emma:

that came from. It seems,

Sam:

I tell you what, a a, a piece of music is a terrible thing to

Emma:

waste, isn't it, as far as Jim's concerned. So that was obviously shelved for a while. Yeah. But then in 1987 the Everly Brothers,

Sam:

the Everly Brothers,

Emma:

the Everly Brothers, worked with Jim and recorded a version of that version. Interesting. They recorded it in 1987, but it wasn't released until 2005. So it was obviously just shelved for a bit. And then it was released on their album on the Wings of a Nightingale, the Mercury Studio recordings. Okay. we'll just have a little blast of that. Again with the Out of the Frying Pan into the Fire.

Sam:

Yeah. Love that the Everly Brothers have reappeared. Do you remember the last time they came up? When Meat and Rory first met, Meat sang, Wake Up Little Susie. Cool.

Emma:

of course

Sam:

joined in on the Harmony.

Emma:

Yeah.

Sam:

And it's lovely. That's come full

Emma:

Okay. So some other interesting little bits then. Yeah. The Everly Brothers also feature on the Whistle down the Wind concept album, Uhhuh. They did a song called Cold. I've sent you the link, but I don't think we need to worry ourselves with that.

Sam:

That extracurricular

Emma:

reading, listeners.. Indeed. But do you wanna hear what Jim had to say about the Everly Brothers?

Sam:

Oh boy. Do I.

Emma:

He must have been working with him in like the, well, 87. And the Everly Brothers were big, like Fifties and Sixties sort of time. Yeah. And then they took a lot of time off and they didn't get on particularly well. Mm-hmm. they came back together to do some recording. And Jim was involved Jim said,"the Everly Brothers, they're really fucked up. One of them is, anyway, Don. But they did an album together where they hadn't sung together for about nine years. They start singing, they can sing the way only brothers can sound, and they're singing."And Paul, the producers going, this is great, man. They're singing, these guys are so fucking good. Then he looks up and he sees Don Everly get up, take off his guitar and Kapow, he smashes Phil in the face."Just coldcocks him. And Phil goes down like a sack of potatoes and Don picks up the guitar, puts it in the case, and walks out."So Paul runs up to him,"what, what the fuck was that? What the fuck are you doing, Don? What the fuck was that? What the fuck are you doing? You fucking knocked him out cold." And Don just looks up at him and says,"he fucked my wife."" Thought you'd like that.

Sam:

That's incredible. Have you seen the new Spinal Tap? I

Emma:

have. And I thought the same.

Sam:

I talked about Iron Prostate breaking up while Jim was working with them earlier. Yeah. Def Leopard had a miserable time with him. Yeah. Sisters of Mercy. Yeah.

Emma:

Yeah. Didn't seem

Sam:

to get on. All I'm saying is there is a link between all of these.

Emma:

isn't there, Oh, what a great story. I love it

Sam:

Whallops him in the face with his guitar

Emma:

but yeah, I watched the new Spinal Tap film,, on the plane. Yeah. So I watched it on the way over on holiday. Mm-hmm. So it's quite fresh. Yeah. oh, when I read that, I just thought it's Pure Spinal Tap.

Sam:

It's

Emma:

I was delighted to have found this. Yeah. And then, and then there was another one. What?

Sam:

What?

Emma:

Jim has penned another slight different version of the song this time as a demo for Pandora's Box.

Sam:

me, Jim.

Emma:

So that is the last link that I've sent you. I would recommend skipping the first bit of it, right? Because as with a lot of Pandora's Box stuff, there's some irritating noise. The Pandora's Box version, which again, is a different set of

Sam:

Yeah. I like that version. I swear some of that made it onto Original Sin.

Emma:

It's entirely possible.

Sam:

Possibly certainly on the version that I've got, it has a, a, track called Pandora's Box, or Pandora's House Room by Room, which is a ten clip of every single song on the album stitched together, possibly with a few extra bits.

Emma:

Oh, Jim.

Sam:

But yeah, I like that.

Emma:

So from what I thought was just an extra on a Greatest Hits album. When I, when I first done it, I discovered

Sam:

industrial complex.

Emma:

It has a whole universe to it. And I've really enjoyed finding all of that and digging it all up. It's been a lot of fun to to trace it and see where it ties in with other songs.

Sam:

It is nice to see Jim's obsession with using absolutely every good thing he's done

Emma:

to

Sam:

it, until it works

Emma:

Yeah. I love the drama of this song. First heard it when I was a teenager and I got the very best of Meat Loaf on double CD. And this is one of the more exciting tracks'cause it was new. But it also did see me through a brief heartbreak when I was about

Sam:

Oh, 2017. Hang on. Meat Loaf memories.

Emma:

Oh, I'm well off there dear. Yeah. So I was 17 and I'd bonded with a boy over this very album. And we had quite a good time together. And then he

Sam:

decided sorry, Emma, just to clarify, is that a cough because you are ill or a cough?

Emma:

It was a cough to sexy but then he decided he'd rather get back with his ex. And so I was heartbroken, but this helped a bit.

Sam:

Yeah. Not Left in the Dark, then

Emma:

No, definitely not Left in the Dark. Definitely not. But it did feel like I had wasted a

Sam:

Aw. But Emma, they're free.

Emma:

Are they

Sam:

Willow? I mean,

Emma:

No. You're not taking into account the emotional toll.

Sam:

Tall. you say tall?

Emma:

say toll.

Sam:

Do you say toll? Toll.

Emma:

No, I say

Sam:

when? When are you driving on the M4? Do you pay on the toll?

Emma:

Yes.

Sam:

Blimey.

Emma:

Okay.

Sam:

never heard anyone say to

Emma:

Really?

Sam:

Yeah,

Emma:

Do you wanna hear what the people on the internet got to say?

Sam:

I'd love to.

Emma:

Gareth Hayes, 3 4 7 0. This is on the Whistle down the Wind version said. Saw Whistle when it was on at the west end of London. Hard to believe Steinman only wrote the lyrics. His musical trademarks run all the way through this'cause

Sam:

mean, I think

Emma:

Webber did the

Sam:

Well, I think we've just established that Steinman didn't just write the lyrics, did he? I think

Emma:

think he's had a bigger influence than that.

Sam:

Yes. I'm sure they both had big influences on one another because their, musical stylings are very

Emma:

Yes. And then on the Meat Loaf version Colin Ritter said"this song helped me through the years that I felt alone in the early two thousands. I'd never really had any luck with women because of too many passed up opportunities. This song helped me understand that others felt the same way and to hold on. Since then, I've been married and now divorced, but this song helped me through the worst parts." So there, that's, a Kiss is a Terrible Thing to Waste.

Sam:

Oh, lovely. Shall we rate it, Emma?

Emma:

I think we should.

Sam:

Let's dust off our Jim Steinman song rating scale.

Emma:

Oh yeah.

Sam:

From the dust that it accrued from half an hour ago, It is very dusty. That's why we've both been crying so much at Left in the Dark. But what is this? Is this a Jim Steinman, a Jim Fineman or a Jim Declineman?

Emma:

There's no doubt that this is a Jim Steinman.

Sam:

Oh.

Emma:

Do you disagree?

Sam:

Well, I like it. In the same way that you don't wanna put Left in the Dark on your playlist. playlist. I wouldn't put this my playlist, but obviously. I would, If we're, I'm happy to make this trade. You've been flexible for me, so I think it's fair to return the favour and we'll call this a Jim Steinman. Thanks to diplomacy. So that was our songs this week,

Emma:

Weren't they lovely.

Sam:

Weren't they lovely? Well, if you thought they were lovely, let us know by emailing us at chat out of hell@gmail.com. You could let us know if you agree with our ratings for those songs. You could let us know what you think of our songs for next time. And what are they gonna be, Emma?

Emma:

I'm gonna bring Love Is Not Real from Hang Cool, Teddy Bear,

Sam:

and I'm gonna stay in the 2010s. I'm gonna go to Hell in a Hand Basket and I'm gonna bring the song Our Love and Our Souls. And for those who don't my accent, that's our souls.

Emma:

There was an advert on TV not so long ago where one of these strap lines was whispering into our souls and every time came on me and Ed pissed ourselves.

Sam:

Well, if you think there's something funny about our souls, well let us know. Chat out of hell@gmail.com. Like these people have. We've had some emails, Emma.

Emma:

Woo-hoo.

Sam:

This is from Jay. Hello, Jay from Scotland here recently discovered your podcast. It's truly an interesting and fun podcast. Thanks I'm a massive Meat Loaf fan. Thanks mainly to my mum playing the Bat out of Hell record when I was a kid. I'm not sure if you've maybe covered these songs, but there's some great songs by Ted Nugent in which Meat Loaf lends his voice in songs like Street Rats, Hammer Down, Writing on the Wall, Together. And that's true. Meat sang a lot with Ted Nugent around the Bat out of Hell times. Yeah. I think we probably ought to maybe not cover all of the stuff they did but maybe dive into a little bit of Ted Nugent. And Jay also mentions a song with Luciano Pavarotti that Meat Loaf performed in, come Back to Sorento or so it was during Pavarotti's concert and Friends together for the Children of Bosnia. And I vaguely remember this, but I couldn't tell you anything about it.

Emma:

We should probably dig it

Sam:

there, but that Absolutely, yeah. Sounds like our sort of thing, so we'll stick those on the list. Thanks, Jay. Claire Muncaster has been in touch. Hi Claire. Hi Claire. Claire suggested Souvenirs will be best suited to Chat of Hell's final episode. So Souvenirs is a song off Meat Loaf's final album, Braver than We Are. Okay. The way Meat Loaf sings, by the way, in his thin little voice makes me think he knew who was gonna be his last album. It makes tears stream down my face. Oh. So, thank you for the suggestion, Claire. That's definitely going in our suggestions bin. Yeah, we have secretly chosen the final songs. Which will remain a secret until we get there in many years time. But maybe we'll save Souvenirs for the last series somewhere. Yeah. That seems fair. And maybe by then we'll have got over our problems with Meat Loaf's awful voice. Other people have emailed, but we've massively overrun already, so we'll do a couple more emails next time. But if you do wanna drop us a line chatoutofhell@gmail.com, like what I already said, you could suggest some other songs for us to cover, like these people have. Don't forget to give us five stars on your podcast listening app of choice. Or if it goes up to six, do six. Do all the stars. Recommend us to your friends and family over a plate of delicious Heck's sausages.

Emma:

Yum, yum. The sorry.

Sam:

The chicken ones are really nice. Do you wanna take on that one? They

Emma:

They are so

Sam:

Yeah, they're yeah. Keep your Meat Loaf thoughts and anecdotes flying in. Do you have any Meat Loaf memories of your own? Maybe you saw Meat Loaf on Fort Boyard, The European, the European offshore adventure game show, which Channel Four didn't want to pay the licensing for. So they made Crystal Maze, meaning that when Fort Boyard eventually came to the UK on Channel Five, we all mistakenly thought it was a Crystal Maze ripoff. Let us know. Chat

Emma:

alex

Sam:

Any other thoughts, Emma?

Emma:

None whatsoever.

Sam:

Lovely. Well, that's us. Bye.

Emma:

Bye