Episode 6.6 - Torna a Sorrento | Like a Rose

From high-culture to the lowest of the low, it's Chat out of Hell!

As we close out series six with listener requests, Sam pays attention to what Meat Loaf was up to when he sang with Pavarotti for the children of Bosnia, while Emma draws the short straw and has to listen to some sexist crap he did with Jack Black. But we still answer other Meat Loaf-adjacent questions, like:

- What kind of song would convince the Prime Minister of Italy to build a sewer system?

- What did that cheeky scamp Bono get up to when Pavarotti's people told him he couldn't smoke cigarettes around the maestro?

- How exactly are women like roses?

PLUS some good chat about first dances, a brief apology to the people of Ireland for Oliver Cromwell, and Sam's been allowed to send emails again.

We're off for a break now but we'll be back on May 25th with a Film Club all about Jim Steinman's Wuthering Heights. Sorry about that.

Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy. Music extracts on this episode:

Torna a Sorrento by Luciano Pavarotti and Meat Loaf from Pavarotti and Friends for the Children of Bosnia (1995)
Like a Rose by Meat Loaf from Hang Cool Teddy Bear (2010)
Like a Rose by New Medicine from Breaking the Model (2014)

Transcript

Emma 0:00

What is this?

Sam 0:01

This is Chat Out Of Hell, the podcast where we discuss the works of Meat Loaf, Jim Steinman, and the good people at Heck's Sausages. Hashtag the chicken ones are really nice.

Emma 0:10

And who's

Sam 0:11

Meat Loaf? Meat Loaf was a singer and actor from Texas who used to get annoyed at his record labels when they spelled his name Meatloaf, all one word. It's two words. Meet last name Loaf. Who's Jim Steinman?

Emma 0:23

Jim Steinman was a musician, composer, producer, and writer who most definitely would not have given either Sam or I a part in any of his musicals, even the really dodgy ones.

Sam 0:34

Wow, that's an ego deflation.

Emma 0:37

There's reason

Sam 0:38

Who are we?

Emma 0:39

We? We're Emma and Sam Wilkinson, and we are comedians who absolutely regret our decision to sing Paradise by the Dashboard Light last weekend at our friend's party. We've not got the range for it, Sam. This again, Emma. We've not got the confidence either.

Sam 0:54

Yo, you don't have the confidence No.

Emma 0:56

Or the skill.

Sam 0:58

I'm worried about your self-confidence.

Emma 1:01

Yeah, me too. But it's okay because my therapist is here to prop me up. Not here tonight. Here in a general sense.

Sam 1:10

Welcome to Chat out of Hell. Bow. Now. Now, Now.

Emma 1:14

ding. Sorry. Am

Sam 1:17

just, karaoke, mate. It's fine.

Emma 1:19

It's not. It's to be

Sam 1:21

It was rubbish.

Emma 1:22

It was awful.

Sam 1:23

karaoke is rubbish.

Emma 1:24

How you doing, Sam?

Sam 1:25

Oh, hello? Hello, Steve Wright in the afternoon. Yeah, I'm all right. Thanks, Emma. How are you?

Emma 1:30

I'm alright, thanks. I'm just trying to up the enthusiasm

Sam 1:33

up. Z

Emma 1:35

up.

Sam 1:35

What did I say?

Emma 1:36

Z

Sam 1:37

They're both made up words. Anyway. Chat out of Hell. Series six, episode six.

Emma 1:44

Yep. Ready for a break.

Sam 1:48

This is the 36th mainstream Chat out of Hell

Emma 1:50

that's a fair ol' whack of songs covered, isn't it? Yet, still so far to go.

Sam 1:55

It means we've triggered a certain number of spam bots.

Emma 1:59

Oh, congratulations.

Sam 2:00

Which like to contact our official email address to say Hi. You've hit 40 episodes. Wow, that's incredible. But we can't find you. YouTube has no clear signal when your episodes ati. I fucking, I don't care. Spam bots go away. So, yeah, we've made it Emma.

Emma 2:17

Oh, if we're getting that kind of spam,

Sam 2:19

then we'd better take a break after this to recover.

Emma 2:24

But it's okay.'cause we will be back after the

Sam 2:25

We'll be back. Yes. I just wanna address that now.'Cause we got an email from Claire Muncaster yesterday who was, I think we maybe had phrased something badly and implied that this was the last series of Chat out of

Emma 2:37

It's not, we're going

Sam 2:38

we're barely halfway through. But we have already planned out a lot of what will go into the final series when we get there. But this is still series six. And this is Chat Out of Hell. It's the podcast where we both bring a song performed or written by Meat Loaf for Jim Steinman to our podcast workshop, and we take all the screws off the case and have a look inside at what makes it work and realise we can't put it back together again at the end. So Emma, what song have you brought?

Emma 3:09

I have brought Like a Rose from Hang Cool. Teddy Bear. What have you brought? Sam? I

Sam 3:14

I have brought Meat Loaf's performance of Tona a Sorento or Come Back to Sorento, which he sang with Luciano Pavarotti in 1995. that was requested by Jay,

Emma 3:25

Lovely stuff. And that's what we're going to start with

Sam 3:26

today. We are gonna start with that one today. You can find that on YouTube it was released on CD also, so you should be able to find it on like Spotify and Apple Music Deezer, although I think Deezer might be pod, I'm not sure. You know what, like

Emma 3:42

could you find it on Napster,

Sam 3:43

Yeah. Find is what is Deezer old.

Emma 3:46

I don't know. I feel like

Sam 3:47

Find it on Limewire. Don't do that. That's a crime

Emma 3:51

And will inevitably just be a virus that you're downloading anyway.

Sam 3:54

Go find yourself a virus on Limewire and we'll see you in a few minutes. There is a video on YouTube. It's vaguely educational. What did you think, Emma?

Emma 4:11

Very dramatic, isn't

Sam 4:12

it?

Emma 4:13

What's it about?

Sam 4:14

It's a traditional song from, would you believe it? Sorento. Okay. Yeah. Written around the turn of the 19th century, which is to say when it became the, is that the right way around the turn of the 20th century? I don't written around 1900.

Emma 4:29

Okay. Gotcha. yeah.

Sam 4:30

This is from Wikipedia, tradition holds that the origin of the song dates to 1902. When, forgive me, Italians Gomo. Oh, no, I'm not.

Emma 4:43

It's

Sam 4:44

okay. Emma. You can do this. I'm so glad it's not me. When the Mayor of Sorento asked his friend Giambattista de Curtis to write a song for the visiting Prime Minister Giuseppe Zanardelli, I couldn't say the mayor's name, I'm very sorry. So the Prime Minister was staying at the Mayor's hotel and it was claimed that he'd asked his friend to write a song for the Prime Minister. Some claimed that the song's a plea to Zanardelli to keep his promise to help the impoverished city of Sorento, which was especially in need of a sewage system. So it's this beautiful song about how lovely Sorento is, with the implication that it won't be for long, mate,

Emma 5:26

If we don't turn the sewage out, it's gonna smell.

Sam 5:30

English translation."Look at the sea. How beautiful it is. It inspires so many emotions like you do with the people you look at, who you make to dream while they are still awake. Look at this garden and the scent of these oranges, such a fine perfume. It goes straight into your heart and you say,'I am leaving. Goodbye.' You go away from this heart of mine, away from this land of love and have you not the heart to come back", et cetera et cetera You are nice. This place is nice. Why you, nice person, leaving this, a nice place. PS can we have a sewage system? So that's what it's about. Okay. Just to give you some framing on this, that performance there came from the 1995 version of Pavarotti's annual Pavarotti and Friends concert. Okay? So, between 92 and 2003, he would put on an annual concert to raise money for various humanitarian causes. So this one was for the children of Bosnia. Massive deal. Televised. This is Pavarotti's height of his fame. Yeah. Just after Meat Loaf performed Pavarotti did Ave Maria with Dolores o R Okay. Bringing Princess Diana to tears. It's this massive occasion other people involved. And this is a weird sort of split because obviously Meat Loaf just sang a traditional Italian folk song. Yeah. Dolores Sang Ave Maria. Also involved that year we had there's a variety of Italian pop musicians as you might think, Simon LeBon was there singing Ordinary World. Michael Bolton was involved. Brian Eno. Bono, the Edge and Brian Eno formed a super group called The Passengers it is a weird thing, Emma. Yeah. But these concerts were absolutely massive at the time. Prior to singing this Meat Loaf had done a lovely rendition of Heaven Can Wait. And then came into this, what did you think of Meat Loaf singing there?

Emma 7:19

I thought he sang pretty well.

Sam 7:22

Okay.

Emma 7:23

It was from, what, 95?

Sam 7:24

95.

Emma 7:25

So

Sam 7:26

Just after Bat Two. Yeah, just before Neighbourhood.

Emma 7:29

He he seemed to still be rocking a ponytail.

Sam 7:31

He was rocking a ponytail,

Emma 7:32

so it was before he did the Samson thing of cutting off his hair and losing all of his power. Mm-hmm.

Sam 7:36

I thought it was a little bit weird.

Emma 7:39

It's really weird,

Sam 7:40

all No, but I thought his voice sounded a bit off and I found out why. So I came across a really good article by the journalist, Jim Shelley who was doing a bio piece on Meat Loaf just before and during the concert. Right. Meat Loaf was plugging his upcoming Welcome to the Neighbourhood album. But it's quite an eye-opener to Meat Loaf's inner life. We've talked a little bit about it, but we don't touch on it a lot. Meat Loaf's famously quite a, I guess shy is probably the word. Yeah. he's not his stage personality. No. Not an outgoing person. He feels very uncomfortable in company. And he's been pitched into this massive fundraising show with all of these other huge artists crammed into the backstage of some place. The piece from Jim Shelley opens up the day before, during rehearsal"on the day Meat Loaf is due to sing with Pavarotti, sits slumped on a hotel sofa and describes his present state of mind as stressed. It was real nerve wracking singing with Pavarotti.' He gushes like a child.'I was real jumpy. I get silly when I'm nervous. I get like a little kid.'" But he had a really bad rehearsal,

Emma 8:47

right?

Sam 8:47

At the rehearsals it's a weird kind of atmosphere for Meat in particular. Pavarotti's got all these different artists lined up and doing their songs with them, and he's having a great time with loads of them. So there's this Italian rap star called Jovanotti where he's so enjoying his duet with him that Jim Shelley says he enters into the spirit of his duet so enthusiastically that at one point that seems a very real danger that Pavarotti was gonna start break dancing." And then he is hanging out with Bono after that. Bono's been told that he's not allowed to smoke cigarettes around Pavarotti. And Bono pulls out a cigar and smokes that, which Pavarotti finds really funny. Yeah. Pavarotti's like, yo, oh, great bantz. And then Meat Loaf comes on and does his rehearsal and he fucks it. Yeah. It doesn't go well at all. And as he's leaving, somebody tells Meat Loaf that he's offended Pavarotti in some way. Yes. Yeah. And Meat Loaf offers to go home. I know. yeah.

Emma 9:50

A lot of the time the things that Meat Loaf says or does come across as really dickish.

Sam 9:54

Yeah.

Emma 9:54

But this is a real insight into that.

Sam 9:57

Linked to this the article mentions another anecdote from Meat where he had a really bad show in I think Berlin at one point. Yeah. And he said to his promoter, is there any way we can give all these people their money back? yeah. Uhhuh.

Emma 10:12

Oh. I don't really know what to say

Sam 10:14

I know. Me neither.

Emma 10:14

Because The man that we've been painting a picture of for a little while now is a dick, a difficult guy to get on with. Yes. A of a man baby a lot of the time. But then to turn it on his head and to see this insecurity. Loads of people have bad rehearsals.

Sam 10:30

One of the reasons the rehearsal was bad, and the reason I thought this sounded a little bit off, is'cause Pavarotti asked him not to sing in his natural key. He's had his key changed on him. And the reason that's happened is'cause he did sing in his natural key in rehearsals and Pavarotti thought he was taking the piss. yeah. And then the other thing is they're in front of an orchestra. Yeah,"'I've never sung with an orchestra in my life,' he exclaims. It, scared the hell out of me. As soon as I started singing, I couldn't hear them. And I turned to the guy and said, can you turn them up?'" Which is funny in the rock world,'cause Yeah, obviously we've got the, he's, he'll have a monitor. But yeah,"it's okay for him. Pavarotti, he just knows where the notes are". He follows the conductor and Meat Loaf's, so totally out of his element here. Yeah. So, yeah, it's yeah.

Emma 11:17

I feel quite bad for him.

Sam 11:19

him. I do as well. He doesn't feel comfortable with celebrity as a concept and he doesn't feel comfortable hanging out with all these celebrities. But he's got to. He talks about his relationship with Jim being on the way down again and that is because,'Jim's a bit strange, we're completely different except for artistically. On Bat Two we would sit there not saying anything, then suddenly turn to one another and say the same thing.' And the relationship changed when Steinman turned to him and said,'I hate you.' And when asked why, he said,'because we did these albums together and you became a star. And I didn't.' Jim always wanted to be famous. Jim likes the circus. I don't like the circus.'" Massive caveat, of course, that Jim and Meat lie about

Emma 11:58

Yes, And everything else.

Sam 11:59

else. Later on, right, day of the show, here's a nice bit. He's backstage. His wife Lesley's there. Lesley pulls a snakes on a can prank on Jim Shelley. You know they open the cans, bring loaded snakes everywhere. Oh. Bit of fun. Meat's enjoying that. Princess Di stops by to wish him luck and Meat is gesturing to Leslie to give her the can. Give her the can.

Emma 12:23

Meat Loaf's not a sophisticated man, is he? I love that.

Sam 12:28

But Di disappears. Before we can find out what would've happened

Emma 12:32

I think that would've been amazing.

Sam 12:34

So that's two princesses Meat Loaf's hung out with.

Emma 12:38

Oh.

Sam 12:38

cause of course he's got that photo with Sarah Ferguson from It's a Royal Knockout.

Emma 12:44

I'd forgotten about It's a Royal Knockout.

Sam 12:46

That's a little bit of a background.

Emma 12:48

It sounds very uncomfortable.

Sam 12:49

It does sound uncomfortable. These concerts, are absolutely massive. Raising loads and loads of cash. There's a CD released it's a big deal. Yeah. To be invited to, to play in these, but for him to have such a difficult experience when fucking Bono's out there puffing cigar, smoking in Pavarotti's face, it's so, so unfortunate.

Emma 13:10

It does make you feel for the guy. Yeah. And I'm not usually brought to No. these days. He

Sam 13:15

'cause he makes it very hard sometimes. Yeah.

Emma 13:17

it makes me think of desperately wanting to fit in with the cool kids and not quite managing it. Yeah. Trying to do your best and not being able to pull it off despite everybody else somehow seeming It's a really uncomfortable, it's to be in. No wonder he offered to go home.

Sam 13:32

Do you wanna do a quiz to clear your palette? Luciano Pavarotti. Meat Loaf one is a tall, heavy set genre busting singer with a powerful tenor voice, a reputation for being a little bit unreliable and hard to deal with, a loving family man with a surprising link to now former Royals and so is the other one. So, Emma, are these Pavarotti facts true or false? Pavarotti loved riding motorbikes.

Emma 14:02

That's so tricky. Fuck it. True. he's not got the frame for it, has he?

Sam 14:13

Fact number two, Pavarotti's stage costume in the seventies was a dinner jacket or tuxedo worn with a frilly shirt and a white handkerchief while he sweated all over the stage.

Emma 14:24

We know that Meat Loaf preferred a red handkerchief, so I'm going True.

Sam 14:28

Oh, you big nerd. Yes. got it right on the handkerchief. Back to Jim Shelley's article. That was Pavarotti's outfit that he'd been wearing since about 68. Meat Loaf had pretty much bang on the same stage outfit with hanky, but with a different colour hanky. The funny thing is, says Meat Loaf, that the first time he saw Pavarotti in January 79, he thought Pavarotti had ripped him off.

Emma 14:50

t

Sam 14:51

This was'cause ever since he started playing live in 68, Meat Loaf had gone on stage wearing a tuxedo and waving a red scarf. Pavarotti's is white. I mentioned it to him last night. Meat Loaf smiles. Yeah. Asked him if he'd stolen my act. He just looked at me and went like this" taps his index finger to his temple."So who knows? Maybe he did." Jim Shelley, does go on to point out that tapping an index finger to your temple can either mean'you are very smart,' or it can mean'you are crazy'. One, right one wrong. Fact number three. Pavarotti was a successful high school footballer.

Emma 15:27

False. Oh, really?

Sam 15:29

Oh, really? Yeah when he'd graduated from school, he was interested in pursuing a career as a goalkeeper. But his mother convinced him to train as a teacher, and through that, he eventually went into singing. Pavarotti fact number four. So, I believe you are one right two wrong. Fact number four, Pavarotti holds the world record for most curtain calls of any performer with a total of 65 in one performance.

Emma 15:56

I'm gonna say true. I don't like it, but I

Sam 16:00

It's false.

Emma 16:01

It's not Meat Loaf, is it?

Sam 16:02

Here's the quote from Guinness. On the 24th of February, 1988. Luciano Pavarotti received 165 curtain calls and was applauded for one hour, seven minutes.

Emma 16:15

Oh. That's

Sam 16:16

after singing the part of Nemorino in Donzietti's La Lisia D'amour at the Deutsche Opera in Berlin. That is exhausting. a an Hour and seven minutes of applauding.. It's too much, Emma. One curtain call is fine. Yeah, I'm happy with that. Well done you, that was, do you know what, that was especially good acting. Come back and we'll just,

Emma 16:36

I know how you feel about things like applause and ovations. Don't feel

Sam 16:39

don't feel badly about applause. I do feel a bit annoyed that every fucking West End has to feature an ovation now. I would give Pavarotti an ovation. He was very good. I will not stand there for half the runtime of the show. I've just seen

Emma 16:54

Oh God. No, no, no.

Sam 16:56

Seven minutes.

Emma 16:57

I think I would be out in the car park by then.

Sam 17:00

How? You're not getting out, Emma.

Emma 17:02

You'd clamber through. I've got sharp elbows.

Sam 17:07

You've missed your last bus home.

Emma 17:08

Oh, you had to pay extra on the parking?

Sam 17:11

Yeah. You probably got a ticket.

Emma 17:14

And back then there's no app to top up your parking

Sam 17:20

An hour and seven minutes. 165. once you've passed 20, how do you stop?

Emma 17:28

Surely Pavarotti could have said, no, I'm not going back out. That's it. That's enough now. This is stupid. I'm tired. I've been singing all night. It's lovely that they like me, but I want, want a cup of tea or a biscotti. I don't know.

Sam 17:47

Bloody hell. I'll pass the emails on to you.

Emma 17:50

No, I regret that already. Is it ever gonna end? Is this my life now? These are the things that will be going through my head and It's very indulgent to keep doing that. Sure. Because surely he could have just said, that's it. Let's all go home.

Sam 18:06

Oh, come on, would you?

Emma 18:08

Yes. Yeah.

Sam 18:10

You've You've got a show on tomorrow night. If you got 165 curtain calls, do you keep getting back? No.

Emma 18:17

I'm usually desperate to get off by that point. We've done the raffle.

Sam 18:23

Yeah. Pavarotti's not even got to the raffle

Emma 18:25

We've done the raffle. I've gotta turn the lights off so they can cool down so that we can pack them away. I'm thinking practically, Sam, no fucking curtain call. Rubbish. No, Encore. Let's just go home. We're all tired.

Sam 18:39

Oh, I don't know though. I think there's a certain madness of crowds in it that once you've hit that 20, it's like, you know what? Fucking, yeah, we're keeping going lads. We're keeping going.

Emma 18:49

oh,

Sam 18:51

How much would your hands hurt? hurt?

Emma 18:53

Oh, so much. This is stupid. It's

Sam 18:58

stupid

Emma 18:59

and it's made me angry.

Sam 19:01

It's stupid how good you were at opera, Pavarotti

Emma 19:04

But is it even about how good he is at that point, or is it just about continuing to see what we can do as a crowd?

Sam 19:14

Pavarotti fact number five. On his death, Pavarotti owned three apartments in New York

Emma 19:21

I don't... true?

Sam 19:23

Three, three apartments. Why have you got three flats in one city? Pavarotti,

Emma 19:28

because you've had how many curtain calls? I'm sorry. How many? The guy likes things in numbers.

Sam 19:35

But that does mean that Pavarotti matches Jim Steinman for number of mattresses owned by a single man across New York City.

Emma 19:44

I wonder if they're in the same state.

Sam 19:50

Oh. Pavarotti facts, born 1935, died 2007. His first singing success, he was a member of a choir from Moderna which won first prize at the International Eisteddfod in Llangollen. Yeah, so that's two languages I've been able to butcher in one piece. Trained as an opera singer, blah, blah, blah. Performed around the place. His big breakthrough was he hit nine high Cs in the signature area of La fille du Regiment which was apparently very good. And he got the nickname, the King of the High Cs, which is a good pun. He also had the nickname, the King of the Cancellations because he pulled out of performances a lot. was only mid-tier popular in the opera fraternity'cause he was very good, but also very unreliable. But then he became famous worldwide in, do you remember how he became famous?

Emma 20:44

Not really. No.

Sam 20:45

No. Okay. It was 1990, his rendition of Nessun Dorma. I just wanted to sing it. That was the theme song to the BBC's coverage of the Italia 90 World Cup. Yeah. And whatever dumb reason, the BBC's theme tune to football tournaments often becomes a massive seller in the charts. Because my goodness, do you remember Des Lynam reading out the poem If

Emma 21:13

Yeah. Yeah, I do. That was

Sam 21:17

I believe over the top of Pavanne by Fauré, maybe wrong. Anyway, that helped him achieve pop status. But there was also he and the Three Tenors, their first concert was on the eve of the World Cup final. That performance became the biggest selling classical record of all time. So it was football what brought him to fame.

Emma 21:37

It's always bloody football.

Sam 21:38

And he was a massive football fan. Yeah. I think he was a Liverpool fan, because I was at Proms in the Park 2007. And the opera singer, Leslie Garrett, got the crowd to sing You'll Never Walk Alone in his memory. yeah. Also performing at Proms in the Park was Chico.

Emma 21:59

Was it Chico time?

Sam 22:00

was, Chico told this anecdote, It was Chico's taken out a second mortgage to fund his new album time.

Emma 22:06

Oh God,

Sam 22:07

I know.

Emma 22:08

Oh, Chico.

Sam 22:10

And we all know how massive Chico's second album

Emma 22:12

Yeah. I remember that. We were queuing up in the streets to buy it. Yeah. Oh, I don't really remember anything from Chico's

Sam 22:23

other than it being Chico time.

Emma 22:25

And even then, wasn't really aware of that much of Chico time because, well, I didn't really follow. Chico's career. Even then.

Sam 22:35

I don't want to delve into Chico's career today

Emma 22:38

because you're saving me that for the next series.

Sam 22:40

I did just have a little light bulb go off over my head. Yeah. you wanna hear what the people of the internet have to think? Yes. About this beautiful

Emma 22:47

I do. Yeah. Go on.

Sam 22:48

At Jason Montgomery Cavern at 7 2 2. Pavarotti has the worst haircut I have ever seen on a man. And it's true. He does not have great hair.

Emma 22:59

bad isn't, There's the unkempt beard that just needs tidying. I'm trying to figure out what it's doing. It's,

Sam 23:07

Well, he is much like Meat. He's a very sweaty man when he performs. And that doesn't help.

Emma 23:11

Maybe he needs to grow it long and tie it back like Meat

Sam 23:16

we've not even talked about opera at, you're not an opera person?

Emma 23:18

I've not an opera person.

Sam 23:19

Have you

Emma 23:19

Are are you an opera person?

Sam 23:20

I enjoy a bit of opera now

Emma 23:21

I have never been to an opera, so perhaps if I went I could get into it. But it's just not something I ever particularly choose to listen to.

Sam 23:28

I'm the sort of person that goes to opera a bit, but not enough to know about opera. Right. I just sit there and listen to the lovely singing

Emma 23:35

I haven't even done that.

Sam 23:38

Is it time to rate this song, Emma? I think it is, yes. okay. So, this is a song by Meat Loaf with no Jim Steinman involvement. So we're gonna use our Meat Loaf song rating scale, running from Michael Lee Aday at the top, down to Michael Lee Okay in the middle, all the way down to Michael Lee No Way for the bad songs, what he'd done. What's this?

Emma 24:01

It's a hard one to judge. It's, not something that I would ever actively choose to. I think Meat Loaf did all right in it. I don't think his voice was terrible

Sam 24:10

like that. Yeah. But it wasn't at its best either. No. Due to the weird restrictions upon him. Yeah. But obviously Pavarotti's banging in it'cause he's Pavarotti.

Emma 24:19

Yeah.

Sam 24:19

In it.

Emma 24:21

that's what he does.

Sam 24:21

That's what he does. So what we're effectively saying, Emma, is how we rating this Pavarotti song on our Meat Loaf song rating scale?

Emma 24:28

Have you not managed to get the rights to the Pavarotti scale?

Sam 24:31

Oh, what? The one that runs from Luciano Pavarotti to Luciano pava. Hang on, Hang

Emma 24:38

sorry. sorry.

Sam 24:40

Luciano Pavaiforgotti, all the way down to Luciano Pavanotti

Emma 24:47

Luciano Pavanotti or Luciano Pavagrotti.

Sam 24:54

Where are you in the writer's room? As a song. We have this sort of mystery about it.'cause it's in a language neither of us speak, so it sounds lovely, but the English translation I read out is, it's nice, but it's not it's not Jim Steinman putting in boner jokes. So, if that had been an English folk song would've gone, oh, lovely English folk song. Fine. Performance wise Meat Loaf is good, but not at his best on it. It's an okay. Yeah.

Emma 25:22

Yeah. Yeah. I'm happy with that.

Sam 25:23

Michael Lee. Okay.

Emma 25:28

Oh. Oh.

Sam 25:31

So Emma, what song have you brought?

Emma 25:33

I have brought Like a Rose from Hang Cool Teddy Bear. This was requested by Stephanie. There's no video for this one, so go away and find it wherever you find your music, you hip young things.

Soundtrack 25:45

She can you on. She kick you when you

Emma 25:50

That was Meat Loaf singing Like a Rose. And that was the Meat Loaf reinvention of the Beastie Boys that we never knew we wanted. Did I take the words right out of your mouth?

Sam 26:03

No, Emma, please don't.

Emma 26:04

It's a stylistic choice, isn't it?

Sam 26:06

Certainly is. Did

Emma 26:10

we enjoy that then Sam?

Sam 26:12

Enjoy is an interesting word.

Emma 26:13

isn't it?

Sam 26:14

Am I glad to have headphones on so that song didn't reach anywhere else in the

Emma 26:19

Yeah, I was thinking that every time I listened to it. I don't want people knowing I've heard this. So it's from Hang Cool Teddy Bear, which is an album I appear to have been stuck on a bit. This series, I'm looking forward to doing something else. It was written by Kevin Kadish and Jake Shearer. Kevin Kadish also co-wrote, produced, and mixed All About That Bass by Meghan Trainor.

Sam 26:43

All about that bass. That bass. Treble. Which I believe is about bums. I know how Very rude. We would never find bums amusing, Emma.

Emma 26:55

Jake Shearer a member of the band called New Medicine and they also did a version of this song on their 2014 album, breaking The Model. The commenters on YouTube seem to be having a battle about who sung it first and who's got ownership of it. But Meat Loaf's version came out in 2010. Theirs came out in 2014. So,

Sam 27:16

So it's Meat Loaf's fault.

Emma 27:17

Jake wrote it, but Meat Loaf sang it first, I assume he wrote it for them

Sam 27:22

and Jake listened to that recording and said, yes, this does work.

Emma 27:27

Have a listen. We can just do a tiny bit.

Soundtrack 27:31

She's kind like a she'll cut you on your tongue, she'll kick you

Emma 27:35

to me, that sounds a little bit like um,

Sam 27:38

I was, I was looking around for a backwards baseball

Emma 27:40

Yeah.

Sam 27:40

I felt bareheaded wasn't the way to listen to that song.

Emma 27:44

It felt very

Sam 27:45

Fred Durst.

Emma 27:46

Yeah. Sort of new metal vibes. Not enjoyable for me personally. The people of the internet disagree with me. There's a lot of praise for that version. And of course, whenever there's more than one version of a song by anybody,

Sam 28:00

there's

Emma 28:00

arguments

Sam 28:01

Can we talk about the lyrics?

Emma 28:03

Absolutely, Sam.,

Sam 28:04

I would just like to take issue with the central premise of the whole song, really. Uh, Yeah. So the chorus goes, she's kind of like a rose uhhuh and first, have the courage of your convictions. Is she or isn't she like a rose? Don't throw in this, She's

Emma 28:19

Like a rose,

Sam 28:20

Like a rose, but

Emma 28:21

kind of like a woman.

Sam 28:23

So she's kind of like a rose. She'll cut you on your thumb. Uhhuh. That is roses do that. They've got sharp thorns. Yeah. The other things that she will do that apparently make her like a rose, include kicking you when you are low. Fucking

Emma 28:35

done

Sam 28:35

she's done. And every time you think you've got control, she got it.

Emma 28:39

Yeah.

Sam 28:40

Like roses do. This

Emma 28:42

this is absolute dog shit. It doesn't get any better. The worst lyric in it is"yeah, it doesn't really matter that she isn't 21.'cause she's always backstage when the band gets done."

Sam 28:55

Sorry, I'm just doing a quick bit of maths.

Emma 28:57

Oh, for the age difference between a 21-year-old and

Sam 29:00

And Meat Loaf.

Emma 29:01

Yeah. At this point. It's not gonna be a happy

Sam 29:05

Meat Loaf was 63 when he sang. It doesn't matter that she's not 21.

Emma 29:10

And of course he's in character. he's in character and he's playing one of the various versions of the Dying Soldier because it's Hang Cool Teddy soldier just won't stop. So in this case, the woman that he's singing about,'cause he's always singing about a different partner in, all of this, is some kind of crazed wild child girl that is so often fetishized in this kind of song, when really it's probably about a woman who needs a lot of help.

Sam 29:42

Like roses do

Emma 29:43

roses need a lot of help.

Sam 29:44

Yeah, Do make sure to give her an appropriate feed around springtime.

Emma 29:49

This song features the word fuck. Which does not come up in Meat Loaf songs.

Sam 29:54

He's not actually a big swearer.

Emma 29:55

Particularly when he is singing Jim's stuff. Jim will have sex and drums and rock and roll. And uh, cheaper than spit so, you Jim actively avoided.

Sam 30:07

Did we ever hear why that was? Because I've heard Jim eff and jeff in interviews and stuff.

Emma 30:12

I dunno if we've actually found

Sam 30:13

that he's not prudish about swearing per se, but he doesn't put it in his, oh wait, no, he put it a lot in his earlier

Emma 30:20

Yeah. But he hasn't put it in the things that he wants to be

Sam 30:23

On the radio.

Emma 30:24

On the radio. yeah.

Sam 30:24

Those 12 minute songs that he's made for the radio,

Emma 30:27

But I guess he's still got his mind on some sort of commercial success. Or maybe he feels that it's not necessary in these contexts. For these stories.

Sam 30:36

Yeah.

Emma 30:37

Because his early stuff, he's looking at some quite edgy pieces, commentary on like Vietnam War situations

Sam 30:43

Uhhuh,

Emma 30:44

and of course the but this whole album has some quite edgy concept in it. I say edgy in that edgy boy.

Sam 30:57

yeah. EE edgy, like the people of the internet.

Emma 31:00

Yeah.

Sam 31:02

Not you listeners. You are lovely, but you know the ones we

Emma 31:04

You know who we're talking about. It's an unpleasant song. with unpleasant themes. And again, this fetishization of

Sam 31:12

The damaged girl. yeah.

Emma 31:15

That's a horrible trope that you see a lot of. It's not good to perpetuate this myth that all these damaged girls are incredibly sexy when really these damaged girls just help and support. but that's not very rock and roll, is it? I think back to being a teenager. I am very not edgy. I never really have been. but I fetishized And then you see the reality later on and it's not sexy, it's just heartbreaking. And I resent the fetishization of that in a lot rock and associated culture. As As, a, woman who requires support.

Sam 31:53

Mm-hmm.

Emma 31:54

This sort of thing doesn't help, but it's there. It's not going anywhere. She's kind of like a rose. She attracts a lot of bees.

Sam 32:06

She makes a lovely tea.

Emma 32:09

She's kind of like a rose. She flavours Turkish delight.

Sam 32:14

She's kind of like a rose. Your gran likes her.

Emma 32:18

She's kind of like a rose. Your wife will be delighted if you take her home.

Sam 32:22

She's kind of like a rose. You get a big tub of them at Christmas.

Emma 32:27

She's kind of like a rose. No one really likes the coffee ones.

Sam 32:31

Another one, just another one of those. Yeah.

Emma 32:34

Meat Loaf doesn't torture this to death by himself. Jack Black is also involved.

Sam 32:39

Oh, Oh I'm not surprised.

Emma 32:41

He's doing the duety bits with Meat Loaf. We've talked about Jack Black's affection for Meat Loaf before. Meat Loaf played his father in the Tenacious D movie. But why choose to get involved in this horrible song?

Sam 32:54

Well. Have you heard the Tenacious D's output that isn't that one good song

Emma 33:00

No, No, I haven't. And I suspect that might be for my best.

Sam 33:04

I would say I'm sure I mentioned this when we talked about, it Kickapoo? Yeah. That he did in, in, yeah. Tenacious D are a band that have learned that fuck rhymes with suck. Made a career out of it. Oh, but also now he's the voice of a cartoon panda, so

Emma 33:21

it's all

Sam 33:21

are you gonna do?

Emma 33:23

Yeah. I don't like this song.

Sam 33:24

Yeah, me neither.

Emma 33:26

I know how we're gonna rate it already.

Sam 33:29

We've heard some proper misog on this podcast from across his career. Yeah. And some of them are at least a bit singable or have a catchy hook or have some good word play in their treatment of women as things. This has none of that.

Emma 33:44

No, and yet there are people out there including, review sites that really rate it.

Sam 33:50

Why is it a fucking Beastie Boys tribute act for the

Emma 33:54

yeah.

Sam 33:54

30 seconds?

Emma 33:54

It really isn't it? who thought that was a good idea? And it's like your uncool Uncle has decided to have a go at doing a Beastie Boys. Sit down Granddad. You're making us all look stupid.

Sam 34:09

But frame that as well. We talked about last week, his first pass at this album was with lovely folk singer Sean McDonnell. And then he put all of that aside and went, do you know what I'm gonna sing about how women are

Emma 34:22

Yeah,, ah subjective sounds.com said"Like a Rose is one of the best songs on Hang Cool Teddy Bear, it is not, and it's one of my all time favourite Meat Loaf tracks."In part, it's due to Jack Black's involvement, but the tip of the hat to the Beastie Boys takes Like a Rose to another level. If there was one aspect I'd change, it would be the mix. The guitar is simply too concealed." No, wrong in your be bad dog, just bullshit. Do you wanna hear what the people of the internet have got to say?

Sam 34:59

A bit, but also

Emma 35:00

also no

Sam 35:01

I'm sort of scared and sad. Emma.

Emma 35:03

Yeah. So. Superthrowndownone said, so happy my kick-ass girlfriend showed me this song."

Sam 35:12

Oh, well they've got us now Emma. Girls

Emma 35:17

And to make it worse, Amber Jet said,"I love this song. I'm sure he's singing about me, LOL. No, I know. He's singing about me."

Sam 35:28

Emma, can you handle these?'cause if I say anything, it'll damage my credibility as a, as an ally,

Emma 35:33

whereas I have no credibility left. Oh, don't try to be these people the dark 1 5 0 8 said,"well, it sounded awesome on paper. This song is fucking horrible."Yay. Yay. Should we rate it

Sam 35:50

Michael ly no way.

Emma 35:51

Michael Lee.

Sam 35:52

Not even introducing the scale.

Emma 35:53

It's awful.

Sam 35:56

What was Stephanie's

Emma 35:57

Stephanie said that she'd been a bit of a Meat Loaf apologist at times, but this is the worst one and the misogyny is horrible.

Sam 36:03

There we go. Yes.

Emma 36:05

So, yep. Thanks Stephanie.

Sam 36:06

Thanks Stephanie.

Emma 36:07

Nice to have that one out of the way.

Sam 36:10

So that was our songs this episode.

Emma 36:13

Yay.

Sam 36:16

What a way to end the series. And I know we had a pre-show chat about whether to end on an introspective note about Meat Loaf being really shy, or a song that hates women.

Emma 36:28

Was no way to win this

Sam 36:29

There was no last minute comeback where we pull out an incredible version by Dido.

Emma 36:36

Rory Dodd.

Sam 36:36

Oh. I said Dido you said Rory Dodd? Yeah. Meet in the middle. But what did you think of those songs? You can let us know with an email to chat out of hell@gmail.com, which some people have been emailing. Emma. Yes, people have been emailing that email. Email address. With an

Emma 36:51

email.

Sam 36:52

With emails. And we've been forgetting to do them for the past couple of episodes. So let's do our email emails now.

Emma 36:58

Let's Let's have a good old rustle through that mailbag

Sam 37:00

Let's open up our email, email bag and pull out the first email, which is from Shane

Emma 37:07

Hysteria's really set in badly tonight, isn't it?

Sam 37:10

There is a noticeable difference between the ones we record just after lunch and the ones we record just before bed. It is from Shane Hogan. Hey Emma and Sam, maybe it's a sign that I've been listening to too many of your episodes, but my mind immediately thought of your rating scale when this name popped up on the Lincoln Lawyer credits, which was this is a film executive produced by Ross Fineman, And I agree, having seen it, the Lincoln Lawyer is a Ross Fineman. alright. It's fine. Whatever.

Emma 37:38

lovely stuff.

Sam 37:39

I love the podcast, particularly the episodes covering tracks from Bat One, Dead Ringer, and Bad for Good. The Rory Dodd interview was amazing, particularly to hear him ripping off his Irish mammy's accent. I've been a fan of Meat Loaf and Steinman here in Dublin Ireland since my school days in the early eighties when it was seen as desperately uncool during the emergence of the new romantics and synth music. And Meat Loaf has remained desperately uncool for all of the time since then. Yay. Each of those early tracks takes me to a special place. You might enjoy this documentary on Meat's 1990 tour of small venues in rural Ireland. The title comes from British Colonist, Oliver Cromwell's, standard refrain to the Irish"To Hell or to Connaught" during his ethnic cleansing of Ireland during the 1650's describing him as British colonist. is honestly letting him off.

Emma 38:24

Yeah, it's, it really is. Wholesale bastard.

Sam 38:30

Absolute rotter. Connaught refers to the West of Ireland, west of the Shannon River, generally seen as poor quality land for farming. But hey, who's gonna hold a grudge for 400 years bracket, most of us Fair play. And there is a link to that documentary, which I've not yet watched, but it is on my to-do list for our break. It's nice to see the early nineties Meat Loaf when hope was high and misogyny w as so far away except for all the misogyny he'd more recently done in the eighties. Thanks Shane. Thank you, Shane. And then Chris Matts. Uhhuh

Emma 39:04

Uhhuh

Sam 39:05

regular listener. Chris Matts sent the same email twice. Yes. Once from his work account and then once from his personal account a couple of days later. And we are laughing Chris, but we find that amazing. Yes,

Emma 39:16

That's the sort of thing that I would do,

Sam 39:18

I'm so touched that Chris clearly thought to himself, oh, I really must email Chat out of Hell. And then a couple of days later, thought, did I send that? Email It's not in my outbox. So I but Chris said so sorry for not being in contact for the last few months, but I've had a busy time of it getting married and all that entails. Congratulations. First of all, also it's lovely, Chris you don't have to apologise for not emailing two idiots talking about Meat Loaf in their living room. Thank you though. It's lovely. Thanks. Chris said"we had Dead Ringer as our second song, and I thought that would raise an interesting question. If you had to have a Meat Loaf first dance, what would it be?"

Emma 39:57

Oh, there's a question. Sam, did you have a first dance at your wedding?

Sam 40:02

Not at our actual wedding. We had our reception a couple of years later and called it a visa renewal party in order to cut the bill by about 50%. Got away with it. We didn't intend a first dance, but we were bullied into starting the dancing by other people. So our first dance ended up being to the Luckiest Guy on the Lower East Side by the Magnetic Fields. This is quite a nice one actually. I, we'd landed quite nicely on that. Did you have one?

Emma 40:29

No, we did not. Ed and I, neither of us are what you'd call natural dancers

Sam 40:34

whereas Kat and I are

Emma 40:36

and I are ballerinas. Yes, I can imagine. So when we first got together, or not long after we first got together we went to a friend's wedding and we got drunk enough to have a go at dancing. It was bad. Ed's dancing is somehow even worse than mine, which is really saying something. And so a joke formed that Ed wouldn't dance at any more things because I had him on a dance ban. A three year dance span that has since been extended to well, we celebrate 18 years together in a couple of days, so we decided to opt out of the first dance because the world's not ready for our version of rhythm.

Sam 41:13

I'm really sad'cause the things that you and I and our friends do together, never include any opportunity for dancing. Now that's all I want to see. I'm trying to work out where and how we can get some dancing on just so I can witness this.

Emma 41:31

Well, I'll let you figure that one out. So, yeah we didn't have a first dance, however that That's

Sam 41:36

question is: Meat Loaf first dance. What you having?

Emma 41:40

I don't know I suppose you want something quite sweet and romantic.

Sam 41:45

Heaven can Wait

Emma 41:47

Yeah. something Like that. A hilarious suggestion. Yeah. You're thinking of California Isn't Big Enough, aren't you?

Sam 41:51

enough aren't

Emma 41:51

thinking of California isn't Big Enough, but our lovely friend Becky, didn't she mention something about the idea of Two Outta Three Ain't Bad?

Sam 41:58

I think she had I think she had that.

Emma 41:59

Yes. Which is an awful choice.

Sam 42:05

50 50 on it, I think because, it is quite a good song. How do

Emma 42:09

I need you There ain't no way I'm ever gonna love you.

Sam 42:10

know, I'm aware of the lyrics,

Emma 42:14

But

Sam 42:14

but it's also quite a good song to slow dance to. You don't have a lot of those in the Meat Loaf canon.

Emma 42:20

Ah, I suppose we could go really outlandish. Life is a Lemon And I Want My Money Back.

Sam 42:26

Oh, hello. It's a really, he's a lucky boy. I doubt you gonna beat those two, to be honest. Dead ring Ringer's a good call.

Emma 42:32

Dead Ringer's a lot of fun.

Sam 42:34

Dead Ringer's is a nice dancey one. it's quite quick. Everybody's gonna come and join in on

Emma 42:38

Dance in my Pants

Sam 42:41

Oh geez.

Emma 42:44

Surf's Up. That's a nice

Sam 42:46

Surf's Up is a slowey. Yeah, sure.

Emma 42:48

I'm gonna go with Surf's Up.

Sam 42:50

So Emma's going with Surf's Up. I'm gonna take the question seriously, gonna say Heaven no, I'm not. I'm gonna say Love, Death and an American Guitar. Listeners, if you had or might have or just have a suggestion for a Meat Loaf slash Steinman first dance, let us know. Chat out hell@gmail.com. and last one is, the email from Claire, Muncaster that I mentioned earlier. So, we've confirmed Claire, this isn't the final series. You can get back off the edge of But Claire's also suggested we review, She Waits by the Window on the Stoney and Meat Loaf album. Mm-hmm. that's not psychedelic soul, that's folk. Jim Steinman would've had a field day Claire adds some insightful commentary on the song, which no sense to me because I've not heard it yet. But Claire we'll take those on board and we'll put those on our suggestions list. Thank you for those. And if you've got any other suggestions of songs for us to listen to, you can email those as well. You can email too, chat

Emma 43:48

chat out of hell@gmail.com.

Sam 43:50

And finally, Emma, there's one more email, which I have just found in our sent items.

Emma 43:56

Sent items?

Sam 43:57

Yeah. Very strange what it's called. the chicken ones are really nice.

Emma 44:02

Oh God, what does it say?

Sam 44:05

It says: Dear Heck's Sausages, open. Do you mind if we call you Heck's? We've been saying Heck's all this time, but actually your packets just say Heck, like how the supermarket is called Tesco but people call it Tesco's, as though it was owned by Kenny Tesco. Anyway, hello? No, first up, love the sausages, hashtag the chicken ones are really nice. My name is Sam Wilkinson and with my colleague Emma Crossland I host Chat out of Hell, Britain's most downloaded fortnightly podcast about the works of songwriter Jim Steinman and his musical collaborator and best bud Meat Loaf.

Emma 44:40

Hang on just a second. Most downloaded because it's the only one

Sam 44:43

Shush.

Emma 44:45

Uhhuh do go on.

Sam 44:47

It's all about the razzle dazzle. I guess you could say. Jim Steinman was the soft white roll to Meat Loaf's delicious Heck's Sausage. Why not give it a listen? Every episode we each pick a song by Meat or to research and present our findings to the other. There's a bit of discussion about the creative process, the musicians involved and their surprising links to other bits of pop culture, and then I always hide a surprise reference to Cotton Eye Joe by Rednex somewhere in the show to annoy Emma with, I bet I've really got her with this one. She thought she was safe by now. Did you know Rednex has 16 members and 12 former members. That's three packets of Heck's chipolatas you'd need just to give'em one sausage each with one each left over for Jim Steinman and Meat Loaf. What I'm saying is the show's good fun even if you're not a Meat Loaf fan, as long as you're up for occasional side chat about meat products and or the sauces you can pour on them, which you definitely would be, of course, give it a go. I know you are saying to yourself,"what is the point of this email, Sam? Don't waste my time sitting at this computer when I should be making a range of affordable but high quality sausages." The thing is, a while ago we learned that A1 sauce once ran an ad campaign with Meat Loaf. Do you know A1 sauce? It's like a thin version of brown sauce that Americans eat with steak. If you've never tried it, I've got an almost full bottle. You can have no really take it.

Emma 46:15

Okay. Yep.

Sam 46:16

I wrote to the A1 people to ask if they had any more info on what am I doing?

Emma 46:22

You've started now.

Sam 46:25

A while ago I had a thought that if I could go back in time and tell my 20-year-old self I'd be interviewing the man who sang on Total Eclipse of the Heart, Uhhuh, he would be amazed. PS three months later, this is what I did. I wrote to the A1 people to ask if they had any more info on the ad campaign, but all I got was a very generic corporate email back and since then we've been on the lookout for other, better, meat associated companies to talk about instead. This series, we've been on a bit of a Heck's obsession So with that in mind, I have three questions I hope you could answer. One. What's your favourite Meat Loaf song? Two. Have you seen the full book performance of the Bat Out of Hell Musical that ran in Manchester in early 2017? And three. Any chance of some free sausages? Go on. Emma really loves the ones you do. Thanks, Sam and Emma. Chat out of Hell. It's weird. I don't know how that got in our outbox, Emma. It's the second time this has happened.

Emma 47:28

How little work have you got on at the moment? Hence displacement activity. Astonishing email, Sam. Bravo Well done.

Sam 47:38

it was just there. It was just there.

Emma 47:39

I need to start checking our sent items as well as I received items

Sam 47:44

Got you, didn't I? You thought you were safe?

Emma 47:46

When did you send it?

Sam 47:47

Just today. Yeah. I wanted to put some tension in for the break that we're about to go on.

Emma 47:52

Oh my God. We might get a reply. Yeah. we might. From some poor, baffled person at customer support.

Sam 47:59

Well, their email address is sausages at heck's dot co dot uk so, oh, well

Emma 48:05

inviting this kind of bullshit then, isn't it?

Sam 48:07

yeah. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Emma 48:11

Who's playing the stupid games? Us all sausages out. Heck.

Sam 48:15

well, ideally it's, it is us, so that we wouldn't

Emma 48:17

I

Sam 48:17

yeah. All the listeners. Are you gonna be glad to not be doing this for a while?

Emma 48:24

because I've been a bit stuck on Hang Cool Teddy Bear, I've not been having much fun. I'm looking forward to having fun songs again.

Sam 48:34

Okay. Soon. Well, we can have fun songs after the break. Yes, we are about to go on one of our regular breaks. We are taking a slightly longer break than we normally do because I am very selfishly going on a bit of a holiday in May. But we will be back on the 25th of May with our next edition of Chat out of Hell Film Club and because we are a podcast with our finger on the pulse of popular culture. Wuthering Heights was very recently all the rage, and by the time May comes along, there'll be zero rage about it whatsoever. We are gonna take a look at Jim's version of Wuthering Heights that he made for MTV in the early two thousands. You know how Cruel Intentions was a, modernised version of. Whatever it was a modernised version of

Emma 49:24

Yes.

Sam 49:25

Oh, les liasons dangerouses, Yeah. Ah, I know things. And also

Emma 49:31

10 things I Hate About You was the modernised version it the Taming of the Shrew?

Sam 49:36

It was Jim Steinman's modernised version of Wuthering Heights set in California, I believe, goes under the name of Wuthering Heights.

Emma 49:45

It's gonna be fun.

Sam 49:48

And if film adaptations of classic novels ruined by Jim Steinman aren't your thing, then we'll be back with the regular podcast two weeks after that on June the eighth where we'll be listening to.

Emma 49:59

Stark Raving Love from Bad for Good,

Sam 50:02

and I'm gonna be bringing Razor's Edge from Midnight at the Lost and Found. And they're not rubbish, Emma. Yes. So if you've got opinions on those, let us know. Chat out of hell@gmail.com. don't forget to give us five stars on your podcast listening apps. That does a thing with an algorithm where when people do it, it recommends us to somebody else. So it is quite nice if people want to do that.

Emma 50:23

us with

Sam 50:24

recommends to your friends and family across a big Easter egg. We're gonna be gone over Easter. And just keep your Meat Loaf thoughts and anecdotes flying in. Did you see Meat Loaf on Robot Wars operating Razor, the most successful robot in the world with 40 victories and only seven defeats thanks to its hydraulic crusher and hardened steel armour, let us know. Chat out of hell@gmail.com. Use the hashtag, the chicken ones are really nice, keep eating those Heck sausages. Emma, any other thoughts? all. No thoughts whatsoever. Thanks for listening to Chat out of Hell. We've enjoyed it. Hopefully you have too. We'll see you in a couple of months.

Emma 51:00

Bye

Sam 51:00

Bye bow now, now, now. Ding.