Marketing - Marketing Red Flags

Marketing can make or break a business, but what happens when you fall for the wrong tactics? In this episode, Joel and Martha dive deep into the red flags that should set alarm bells ringing when working with marketing agencies, freelancers, or even in your own campaigns. From misleading reports and over-promising results to the dangers of blindly following trends, they break down the biggest mistakes businesses make.

With their signature blend of brutal honesty and humour, they also explore why some business owners wear “being busy” as a badge of honour, how pricing strategies affect perceived value, and the psychology behind luxury branding. Whether you’re hiring an agency or handling your marketing in-house, this episode will help you avoid costly mistakes and make smarter decisions.

Key Takeaways:

• The dangers of misleading marketing reports: How some agencies manipulate data to make results look better than they are.

• Beware of unrealistic promises: Why any agency guaranteeing success without knowing your numbers is a massive red flag.

• The pricing perception trap: How pricing affects consumer perception and why charging too little can hurt your brand.

• Selling the dream vs. reality: How some sales tactics manipulate buyers and why forced deals often lead to bad clients.

• Marketing for different audiences: Why marketing a budget product isn’t the same as marketing a luxury brand—and how agencies often get this wrong.

• Vanity metrics vs. real impact: The difference between impressive-looking stats and actual business growth.

If you want to protect your business from bad marketing decisions and level up your strategy, this episode is a must-listen! 🚀

Links:

Website: https://www.codebreak.co.uk
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/codebreakcrew/
Facebook: https://facebook.com/codebreakcrew/

Joel's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joelstoneofficial/
Joel's Facebook: https://facebook.com/joelstoneofficial/

Free Marketing Budget Calculator: https://codebreak.outgrow.us/knowyournumbers

Arrange a call with Codebreak: https://form.jotform.com/241272835208051

Transcript

0:13

Hey Marth we're back hello and George is on the pod George is here yeah if you hear any little snorts I don't know if he's on camera well yeah just on your so we're talking about marketing red flags today yes I love the red flag conversation do you know just in general yeah we heard about beige flags is this I wait it's I'm sure it means boring yeah well yeah yeah or like it's like a flag but it's not like a red flag but it's still I keep getting serve those tick tocks of like outrageously awkward red flags like not awkward like outrageously how do you explain it when someone's like got red flags that just ridiculous like they're never gonna find anyone so like they hate it when their significant other accidentally puts their t-shirt on inside out and that be it yeah or like not allowed a phone or to go out in a skirt that's too short yeah or like uses the upside-down smiley emoji that's it that's more of an ache I think okay yeah oh we should get into this before we get into the math so what's the difference between a can a red flag well an ache is like someone running after the bus right as well X was because X can be something so random like chasing after a table tennis ball your biggest dick it's difficult when you've got a partner because you didn't like these things don't crush your mind as much yeah I did say to Josie the day though that gave me the ache when you did that because I find myself like for example talking to George in a silly voice sometimes and then I'm like if anyone but Hannah heard me talking like they would like have me committed I did it earlier and everybody kind of looked at me and I was like yeah I am NOT the world's sexiest man right now as I talk in a high-pitched that's the only way you speak to him though yes that's the language you understand and have you guys ever ticked out the other day about have we spoke about this before about Spanish dogs speaking Spanish and like English dogs well like you know I mean like they know Spanish because they know what like says well yeah and you think they have like a Spanish accent I was do don't they do you know about that you guys have regional accents like regional moves yeah well very so you'd be the same if you have the same breed of cow in Scotland and the same breed of cow in Shropshire they'd have different moves and what do you perceive those moves to be? well the Shropshire cow goes I'll move on I'll play you to that too please yeah I couldn't come back quick enough with like a Gladwidge and Moo I didn't even set you up that's off the cuff that's the level of comedy you get on this podcast so yeah ics are like when something makes you go and then a red flag would be like must be a paedophile yeah yeah it's an extreme red flag but yeah like girlfriend is yeah ten years younger I'm trying to think of like red flags I've had and ignored probably the biggest red flag I've had and bear in mind that my wife sometimes listens to this podcast it wasn't her but pre Hannah I think third date I went round to a woman's house and and she was going through a divorce and the man that she was having an affair with that caused the divorce came around and threatened to kill me that's definitely a red flag yeah what so not the husband no not the husband husband was pretty sound still friends no we mates neither was like a see I used to have like a savior complex so I'd be like but I can I can change them which is like looking at a terrible situation yeah you meet this I don't mean this in a sexist way but I'd say but you do meet a lot of women who think they can like change or fix yeah dick heads yeah I think I think it's fix a lot like oh I can help my idiot mates had girlfriends like I'd be like why does anyone like you you're an absolute fucking moron what side of you are they see yeah and I think it was like they had like an urge to like fix them I say they I mean I'm sure men get this as well I definitely have been with people I shouldn't say that and there's plenty of red flag yeah but when you look back what's that called hindsight is a wonderful yeah you get hindsight is 2020 vision hindsight is wonderful thing yeah so I guess like we'll get on to marketing red flags because that is kind of the point of this podcast but such a fun topic there's business red flags too yeah I was gonna say that I'm sure that they're like when somebody says oh I'll pay that invoice next week oh I've got one at the moment I've got no I mean I've got fucking loads but we've got one that could come in as a client and he asked if like I could like make the payment plan more favorable to him so like rather than doing 50-50 split he wanted 25 25 25 25 let's say but then said I can't start yet because I'm just waiting on some cash flow issues at our end I'm like so you've asked me to extend the sort of credit essentially and then warned me that you can't start because you've got money issues if anything I should make the credit stricter you got a hundred percent out front and I just made me chuckle that someone's logic works that way that's a big red flag the red flag that used to get me and it was always at like breakfast networking like bacon sandwich brigade was the person that showed up and banged on about how busy they were but that's the standard answer isn't it house business I don't care if I asked on how they are I quite like I don't want their life story don't get me wrong but I quite like a bit of insight like oh yeah things have really picked up this January like December was a bit slow because someone left the business and then we lost a couple of clients but thanks for asking just like a real answer yeah or like oh actually my wife's just got a new job and then I'm having to work from home to look after the kids so it's making balance in the business quite tricky right like not yeah busy I'm so fucking busy it hurts I'm busy I was definitely people to think my business is gonna be the most sexist podcast ever it's definitely blokes are fucking terrible for this I'm so busy it fucking hurts do you think the ratio of male business owner well it obviously is still a lot higher and you think that's why that is our reference point because of like just weirdly no because like we're like somehow massively entrenched in the coaching world and there's a lot we meet a lot of female business owners now female business owners as as I see it rarely talk about how busy they are as a not as a boast sometimes as a like I'm close to burnout I've like this and this is such broad-brush sexist nonsense really but I'm targeting men so leave off Ond, ie, dydw i ddim yn gwrthwynebu llawer o ddynion sy'n defnyddio'r bwysigrwydd fel badge o honno. Ac rydw i'n gwrthwynebu ddynion sy'n defnyddio'r effeithiolaeth fel badge o honno. Dwi'n meddwl mae hynny'n ddiddorol iawn. Dwi'n cydnabod hynny. Efallai, ar lefel super-sexist, mae oherwydd maen nhw'n defnyddio dynion sy'n defnyddio llawer o ddynion. Nid y byddwn ni'n cael... Dwi'n meddwl, yn hanesol, mae'r dynion yn mynd i weithio gyda phobl. Ac dwi ddim yn credu mewn rôl dynion, nid ar un moment, ond pan mae gennych bywyd, mae dynion yn cael llawer i'w wneud. Beth dweudwch chi ar hyn o bryd? Dydw i ddim yn gallu chwarae'ch bywyd. Ie, dyna'r pwynt yna. Yn amlwg, gall dynion gynhyrchu ac yna gall dynion gynhyrchu'r bywyd, neu gall dynion gynhyrchu'r bywyd, neu beth bynnag. Ond, mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw ddefnyddio. Maen nhw'n chwarae llawer o ddynion. Ac mae llawer o'r dynion rydych chi'n cymryd, yn enwedig busnesau, ddim yn ymwneud â hynny. Maen nhw'n bwriadu ym mhob shop Cina, ddim yn meddwl am effeithiolaeth, dim ond yn meddwl am gael peth i'w wneud. Ac y ffordd gorau i gael peth i'w wneud yw gweithio'n byw. Ac nid yw'n iawn, mewn gwirionedd, os ydych chi'n edrych yn ôl ac yn edrych ar bethau'n logigol ac yn rhannu'r pethau. Felly, rwy'n meddwl, un o fy mhlaenau hawdd yw'r dynion sy'n dweud i mi pa mor bwysig maen nhw. Mae hynny'n ddiddorol iawn. Nid yw'n ymwneud â'r busnes, mae'n ddiddorol iawn. Rwy'n credu bod rhan o hynny hefyd, mae pobl, os ydych chi'n eisiau gwneud ymdrechion, fel, dweud, mae cyflenwyr poblogaidd yn y stryd, dydych chi ddim eisiau dweud, nid yw'n bwysig i gyd. Ie. Mae hynny'n ymdrech, nid yw'n? Ond yna, mae gweithwyr bwysigol yn un o'r fflaenau hawdd i mi. Rwy'n hoffi ddweud storïau cyflawn os yw'n helpu rhywun arall yn y stryd, neu, mae'n helpu i ni greu ein busnes, oherwydd mae hynny'n bwysig i mi i gefnogi'r datblygiad a'r busnes. Ond dydw i ddim yn deall bod y bobl sy'n anodd, anodd, yn dechrau bostio am eu busnes. Mae'n anodd. O, mae hwnna'n fflaen redd. Mae hwnna'n fflaen gwych, dim ond i mi, mae'n fel therapu. Os ydych chi ar y cyfarfod, neu'r Q&A, neu'r mastermind, ac mae rhywun yn rhoi'r dŵr i gofyn cwestiwn... Dyna ni. Wel, mae yna rhan o hynny, mae yna rhan o hynny. Na, dyma'r fflaen redd. Felly, yn amlwg, fflaen redd. A'r cwestiwn yw, mae cwestiwn yn dod, ond maen nhw'n defnyddio'r cyntaf 90% o'r pethau maen nhw'n ei ddweud i siarad am eu hunain. Felly, maen nhw'n dimuno eu busnes yn ystod yr holl bobl eraill yno. Helo, dwi'n Joel, a dwi o CoBreak, a rydyn ni'n brifysgol o helpu'r busnesau i ysgael dros 7 ffigurau a'r hyn. A beth yw eich cwil hoffi? Ffwrdd! A fyddwch chi'n dod i mewn i'r cwestiwn? Ie, fyddwch chi'n dod i mewn i'r cwestiwn, ie. Felly, beth yw hynny? Nid oeddwn i'n gallu gweithio gyda'r bobl hynny. Ie. Ie. Ac mae pawb yn mynd allan, ac mae'r person sy'n ysgrifennu'r cwestiwn yn dweud, ffwrdd. Ac mae gen i ddiddordeb. Diddordeb busnes. Paul ysgrifennodd i hyn, fy hyfforddwr. Pobl sy'n rhoi cwestiynau bywyd dros un munud. Ie. Mae gen i ddyfwriadau sy'n mynd i'r cwestiwn nawr, ac rwy'n meddwl, ffwrdd, mae gen i ddiddordeb dros un munud pob amser. Ac rwy'n adrodd, ar hyn o bryd, mae gen i ddiddordeb dros un munud, ac rwy'n adrodd, os oeddwch chi'n meddwl am dechrau podcast. Rwy'n dod i ddod i'r cwestiwn, dwi'n gwybod, dwi ddim yn mynd i gysylltu â'r podcast, ond, felly, weithiau mae yna lawer o ddweud a chyflwyno. Fel, pan mae'n rhywbeth technigol. Dw i'n meddwl ei fod dros un munud. Mae'n lwm. Ie. Ie. Mae angen gweld. Ie. Dwi ddim yn hoffi pan fydd pobl yn rhoi'r adroddiadau ffwrdd i mi. Mae'n rhaid i fod yn amgylchedd ffwrdd. A wnaethoch chi weld, ar iMessage nawr, a fyddwn i'n ysgrifennu i chi? Fel, os ydych chi'n rhoi'r adroddiadau ffwrdd, dwi'n meddwl maen nhw'n ei ddweud, ond mae'n rhoi'r ysgrifennu. Dwi'n meddwl, mae'n 2025. Pwy sy'n defnyddio iMessage? I mi? Dwi ddim yn rhoi adroddiadau ffwrdd ar iMessage. Nid. Wel, dydych chi'n ei ddweud oherwydd dydych chi'n cael ysgrifennu. Wel, pwy sydd wedi cael iMessage? Fy enw sydd wedi cael ffwrdd Android. A ydy hi? Dwi ddim yn gwybod unrhyw un sy'n Android, ar ôl Hannah, yn amlwg. Whatsapp. Nid yw pobl ar Whatsapp ar hyn o bryd. Wel, dwi ddim yn gwybod. Wel, dwi ddim yn gwybod. Dwi'n dweud... Nid yw pobl yn defnyddio iMessage, Martha. Dwi'n gwneud hynny. Ac ysgrifennu, hefyd. Apple yw'r un sy'n ysgrifennu'r ysgrifennu. Wel, dyna sy'n digwydd ar fy ffôn. Nid yw? Nid. Oh. Mae'n amlwg. Rhaid i mi edrych ar hyn. Dwi'n meddwl a fyddai'n iawn. Felly, Mark... Nid, dwi eisiau gwybod eich fflagau ffyrdd. Yn y busnes? Wnawn ni... Dwi ddim yn gwybod... Dwi ddim yn gwybod a yw hyn... Mae pobl gyda'r enw gyntaf ar gyfer ysgrifennu, oes hi? Dwi'n hoffi bobl gyda'r enw cyntaf ar gyfer ysgrifennu, neu'r enw cyntaf ar gyfer ysgrifennu. Felly os yw eich enw... Scott Owen. Os yw eich enw Martha Dale... Mae Marth... Mae Dale yn enwedig yn enw cyntaf. Dale, Dale. Dwi ddim yn credu eich bod chi'n cymryd hynny'n hir i ddod i'r hyn rydw i'n ei wneud i chi yno. Dwi'n rhaid i mi ddweud fy nghwaraeon. Ac mae hynny'n fy... mae hynny'n fy fflag hawdd. Fy fflag hawdd yw pan mae Martha yn cael cwaraeon, mae rhywbeth yn iawn. Hei... Fy enw yw... Dwi ddim yn hoffi pan mae pobl yn defnyddio gwerthoedd dwi ddim yn deall. Dwi ddim yn gwybod a yw hynny'n... Fy enw yw... Ydw i'n gwybod a yw hynny'n... Mae'r fflag hawdd. Dwi'n gwybod a yw hynny'n... Mae'r fflag hawdd. Ydw i'n gwybod a yw hynny'n... Mae'r fflag hawdd. Mae'n dweud eich bod chi'n dysgu gwerthoedd gwastraffol y cyfnod. Ie, oherwydd dwi'n credu mai'r fflag hawdd yn ddiddorol yw fflog gwastraffol, yw enw gweithredul yng Nghymru. Yw'r beth sy'n ei gynnwys? Na. Nid ydw i. Efallai ydw i. Beth yw'r gwirionedd? Ie, beth yw'r gwirionedd? Beth yw'r gwirionedd? Dw i'n meddwl y byddai rhywun rydych chi'n gallu ei ymddangos. Ymddangosol? Oh, y ffaith hwn! Ie. Felly... Fflag hawdd y gweithredul... Mae'n rhaid i mi ddod yn ôl. Sut ydych chi... Oherwydd dwi bob amser yn mynd i ddod yn ôl i bobl, ond rwy'n credu y byddai pobl... y byddai hynny'n fflag hawdd. Felly, rwy'n ymddangos â hyn. Yn rhan, oherwydd dwi ddim yn gwybod pa rydw i eisiau cyflawni a pa dydw i ddim eisiau cyflawni. Ac mae hefyd'n depennol ar sut mae cyrraedd yn fy ymgyrch cymdeithasol. Oherwydd dwi'n fel... Rydych chi wedi gweld i mewn gwirionedd, ond rwy'n... Rwy'n gallu bod yn y bywyd a'r dŵr o'r parti. Rwy'n gallu bod yn y pwynt a'r pwynt ddim eisiau cyflawni. Felly... Rwy'n teimlo ei fod angen cyflawni, ond... Ie, mae'n rhaid i'r siol eisiau cyflawni ar chi. Oherwydd dwi'n ddiddorol yna... Dwi'n ddod yn ddiweddar. Ie, i fod yn broffesynol a... ddim yn gwneud cyfeiriadau. Os yw eisiau cyflawni, dwi bob amser yn dweud dydych chi'n cyflawni neu'n ddod yn ddiweddar. Oherwydd dwi ddim eisiau cyflawni. Dwi ddim eisiau bod unrhyw un yn teimlo bod unrhyw un yn teimlo bod eu bod yn rhaid i mi cyflawni. Dwi'n ddod yn ddiweddar os yw pobl yn teimlo nad ydyn nhw'n rhaid i mi cyflawni. Dwi'n teimlo'n sexy hefyd. Beth yw'r ddewis? Dydw i ddim yn gadael y ffilm hwn. Os yw'n ddiddorol, dwi'n gwneud iddyn nhw cyflawni. Yn enwedig, dwi'n teimlo bod yn rhai cyflawni ar y moment pan mae rhai ffyrdd macho. Ie, dwi'n... Dwi'n... Dwi dim ond cael client newydd sy'n edrych... So I'm like, right, you've got to hug me. It looks like he'd be painful to hug him though. But more than a washboard. Yeah. Yeah, I quite like it when we've got a tradesman or something who's like, dad was a tradesman and granddad was a tradesman and never got hugged as a kid and I give them a long lingering hug. I feel like you needed that. What's that rule about you wait for them to pull away? The guy I'm thinking of, he'd play along. We'd just be stuck there. Forever. No, you break it up. No, you hang up. I do think we've got a bit of a bromance now, so we'd probably just be stuck together forever. Right, we're 15 minutes in, Martha. We've not talked about single markets and red flag. Do you know where the inspiration for this came from? No. Somebody sent us a report from another agency and said, I feel like this is a load of bullshit. Are we the baddies? Can you help me? I used to fucking hate it when other agencies used to audit my work. Yeah, but we just don't. Yes, when somebody sends an email. Unsolicited, but this was solicited. I've just audited your website. Fuck off. I haven't asked for it. But that, I think, is a huge red flag. I don't know if it's bad, like they just don't know what they're doing or they're bad people, but it's marketing agencies, marketing people who lie on their reports. Fucking out. Or leave bits out. Or put conversion values on a report that's nothing to do with sales but haven't explained that they're just trying to weight the Google ads. Which, I'm not going to bore people to death on what that means, but you can't tell a client that they've had 3 million pounds worth of sales in the last quarter from their Google ads if they haven't had 3 million pounds worth of sales in the lifetime of their business. And how would you think they wouldn't be like, well, where is this money? Don't put it on the report. I had actually a conversation with Jack about how ROI is difficult because it's not as linear as you think. Did you ask him if he's ever been up a hill? No. Has he ever fetched a pail of water? I thought you meant he had some mad fear of the reeking. Does he know anyone called Jill? I've got one on me today, can you tell? Yeah, it's not as linear as that. Even with the best tracking, is it 7 day attribution? It's tricky. It's not as black and white. And I guess it's recent, this ad generated this much because of... What's the phrase? Lies, lies and statistics or something? And it's like, you can make data say anything. So report like we, we do report but we also send a loom explaining the report because I think like in our game, there's just so many agencies that are like spinning the numbers to make a positive out of a negative. And I just would rather say to clients, you didn't have as many leads this month, it dropped off, it's August or there's uncertainty in the markets or you didn't run your webinar this month and so you haven't had as many conversions. Or like with some clients, people aren't searching for that. You need to reach out to them with the meta ads but nobody's googling how to wax my feet. I am googling that. Are you? I was trying to think. Yeah, that's how I was going with that. Fucking hell. Okay, selling the dream. Rats a red flag. Do you agree? Just had this on a call, just been on a sales call and the lady was aware of the person that taught me a lot of sales stuff and I was like, okay, well don't worry, I'm not going to use any of that shit on you. She laughed. And it's that whole like, there's little things when you oversell that really bug me and like a really obvious one that everyone sees all the time online would be like, join my cause for 997 worth 15 grand. Who's decided that's worth 15 grand? Where have you plucked that number from? Demonstrate to me where you've ever sold that for 15 grand and if you can, I'll write you an apology. So there's that kind of oversell. Then there's the whole not letting somebody out of a sales scenario until they've bought and I think that they always end up being your worst clients because they're full of remorse. Or they couldn't quite afford it which is why they were so on the fence. Never do someone a deal for the sake of doing them a deal because they'll be a shit client. If it's like I'm willing to sign up for 12 months of course do them a deal. If it's I'm bringing two businesses in at once do them a deal. If it's their 10th visit to your car wash do them a deal. If it's oh can you sharpen your pencil? Fuck off. No, I know my worth and I'm not doing you a deal because all that will happen is you'll be asked to justify what you've charged and the red flag should be if you feel yourself having to adjust what you know is right and oversell either through a deal or by inflating the possible result you're setting yourself up for hiding to nothing. It's also a positioning piece if you knock off however much, a grand they're like well he was overcharging me a grand before where's this come from? Loyalty bonus a bit different clients that stick with us they don't pay what new clients pay because I think it's like grandfathering their pricing until it's not feasible yeah which is kind of like the opposite of what Sky do Sky do it the other way so you get a special deal if you're new drives me barmy Yeah, but then it's the effort of switching over Yeah, well I said that to Hannah recently because the annual Sky debate came up and it's like, but I love football Is that, yeah, if you watch live sports you're kind of I just love football and then, she likes the movie channels and we like the documentaries and so then we've got the internet with them and so it starts to like make a bit more sense but every time every year or two years, whatever it is when the renewal comes through and it costs more for us to renew than it would to leave and come back again that bothers me And you see all the ads Yeah, like I'm not in through a sense of like a great trusting relationship I'm in because I'm trapped and that's gross Yeah, because you need, well I guess you don't need it I don't need it They got me this year, big time right. It's not essential, definitely not essential. But they promised that there would be at least 20 Shrewsbury games on Sky through this season. Who promised that? Sky or Shrewsbury? Yeah, they've done this thing with EFL clubs where it's like you can go on the red button essentially and watch whatever game you want as long as it's not a three o'clock kick-off. And that added so much value for me because that's the level of football I want to watch, judge me if you will. Whereas previously all the games would be at Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Arsenal. It's funny because I didn't tell Hannah this is what had happened. Shrewsbury are on telly a lot at the moment. I'd be with that, I'd be with her. I've got a bit of a patsy if it's Shrewsbury on telly because they're never on telly. No, they're always on telly. Are you ever on telly? At the games? No, because the camera position's behind me. So the camera's on my side. But that means I've got the best view, so it's fine. Other marketing red flags? I would say when you approach an agency and they promise you results without asking you any questions. About figures? Either your figures or past data. Because a good agency would turn you down if they're never going to be able to... If your numbers aren't viable with their fee and ad spend and you haven't got much margin in it and you're not selling a lot of them, then they should say no. I literally just said on a sales call to someone, how much do you make for every course that you sell? She said, what do you mean? I said, what are your business overheads? I said, if you sell 100 courses, divide the business overheads by 100 and we'll have a margin. I don't know. How can we do ads? It blows my mind. It doesn't look profitable. How are you even pricing? This was currently charging 1,600 quid, planned to charge 2,980 quid. I was like, that's double. Have you ever sold for that price before? Yeah. Oh, right. Fucking great. Looking forward to this. We've had this recently with a client, haven't we? Doubling their prices and then being surprised when volume... Yeah, but then at Pando, they're actually doing all right. But yes, exactly that. Double your prices. Expect. It's not about... It's not about your product's not worth that, because it could well be. It's about convincing everyone else. You've never had to convince them at that level before. It's a different thing. It would be like selling a Dacia and then... A what? A Dacia. D-A-C-I-A, the car. Dacia. Okay. They're like budget cars. They don't even come with radios. Oh, okay. Like an in-betweener type. They're actually nice now, but when they broke into the... A bit like Skoda years ago, broke into the market with cheap budget cars. Or Kia did it and other brands. But it'd be like selling a Dacia and then decided, actually, I'm only going to sell Mercedes, but I've only got the skill set of when I sold Dacia. So you do all the adverts like Dacia and you're putting deal stickers on. It's a completely different mindset, marketing game set up. Everything. You might need a wait list. There's so much... You probably aren't going to put your prices on the front end because you can't handle any objections. Yeah, exactly. You don't know the nuances between handling a price objection and handling a value objection because now you've got to justify the value because you're charging in the thousands. And actually, you'll encounter less price objections because you should have geared people up for that. But you will encounter more value objections. All sorts goes on. I had the other day when I went to buy something, I was like, it's too cheap. It's going to be crap. There is the flip side of perceived value. I get really nervous. I never used to. So when I had no money, it used to be like, what's the cheapest I can get it for? Then I had a little bit of money and it was like, what's the cheapest I can get it for where it'll still be good? And now I've got not a lot of money, but some money. It's like, which one can I get that will last me the longest? It's a really interesting change because if you're thinking about it from the other way, your customers, how are they perceiving you in the marketplace? Are you the budget option? Are you the mid-range option? Are you the premium option? Are you the luxury option? Longevity. So luxury doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. It's just the most luxurious. So there is chocolate that is technically the best chocolate, like high density of cocoa, organically sourced ingredients. And then there is luxury chocolate, and that's not the same thing. But they can be the same thing. And there's so much nuance to that. And if you approach an agency, and this is a red flag, a marketing red flag, agency, freelancer, staff member, if their tactics are the same for whatever thing you're doing, so whether it's launching a budget product or a premium product, you should run a mile. Yeah. Because they should be taught. I had a conversation with Ethan, one of the new guys on the team, for a shout-out on the podcast. He doesn't listen, so waste of time. Does he not? I just caught him out. I just caught them both out. They've never heard the coffee advert. Sorry, Paul. But like I said to Ethan about spacing the margins when you're designing things, like giving it room to breathe, and he didn't know what I was talking about. And then I thought of how to explain it since, but like a Mercedes advert has very little on the advert because everything's got room to breathe. It's luxury. It can afford the space. Sometimes you don't even see the car for ages. Yeah, like a watch advert as well. They can afford a lot of space. And the psychology is room to breathe, airy, luxury, can afford the space. A car warehouse will litter it with listings. It'll be packed. But also I said to him, if you go to like a nice restaurant and they've laid the table, how do they lay the table? I didn't say this to him. This is what I should have said to him. They don't lay the knives and forks right on the edge of the table and the table mat right on the edge of the table. They put it into the table because space, they can afford the space. You're not sat in the restaurant with your elbows bumping into people behind you. There's room. There's room to move. When you get up to go to the toilet, you don't worry about banging into the person behind you. And that's the same logic with design. It's like can we afford the room to breathe? And there'll be ads that like stop the scroll but positionally give the impression of a budget product. And like we have to dance this dance quite a lot where it'll be like we want to stop the scroll. We want to get attention. But in this instance, this needs to look fucking cool. Yeah. Because if it doesn't look cool, people are going to assume it's cheap. And if they assume it's cheap, get loads of price objections on the other side and the client's gonna tell us the lead to crap yeah and that is like a at the game we play and I guess like another big marketing red flag is when the agency talks loads about vanity metrics reach impressions likes even even clicks it depends what your yeah goal is but I explained to one today that clicks is a really good metric for monitoring the effectiveness of an ad and she was like well why and I was like because if if the click-through rate and the cost per click is where it should be normally everything else falls into place with the client know that no but it is an important metric but when a agency is like spouting this stuff you've reached thousands of people so many more people know about you know well the till hasn't run and probably not after one ad like what's the frequency how often are these people seeing how clear is it your brand in the ad because my my recall lift on almost anything to be honest I like even some my favorite foods I've been at what's it called what's the brand who's that by but who's it but Barrett's yeah Barrett's flumps who do wine gum maybe they definitely do licorice all sorts no facets see oh shit point that is my thing I do I think they do those fruit ones what are they called fruit gums no they're like they're in a wrapper orange and yellow wrapper black Jack's they do and then free oh yeah I know what you're talking about those things yeah I look because they come together sometimes you can get a mix pack on you yeah that's Barrett's yeah yeah yeah thank you if you listen in Barrett's yes sponsor me because I just bought more flops than anyone else in the UK this year I'm single-handedly and they keep disappearing from places like my local Tesco they've gone well I know where I can get a wholesale mouth because I bought you two boxes yeah I know but I like it's such an addiction I've got I was doing to a day you're the flumpasaurus yeah just right flump me wow Marth you shouldn't be on the spot today because you've been warned about this moment but what are your big takeaways from this pod mine would be if anyone you approach to do marketing or maybe already anything know your numbers know your numbers yourself so when when you're asking the questions or when they're asking you questions if they're good you've got the answer also you can work it out okay well their fees this they want me to spend this on ads this isn't viable who at what point is gonna tell me if they're not talking to you about viability fuck them off exactly take away because that would have been a great spot to end but what's your take away tell me you're dating someone and the bloke they're having an affair with threatens to kill you don't date them anymore Roger that