Growth - The £10,000 Effort Rule: What It Really Takes to Grow

In this episode of the Stay Hungry Podcast, Joel and Martha break down one of the harshest truths in business – you get out what you put in. They challenge entrepreneurs to assess whether their expectations match their effort, using real world examples of businesses aiming for big profits but only committing small investments.

From sales events and passive income myths to the realities of scaling property investments, they reveal why success is not just about working hard – it is about working smart. They also discuss the power of mentorship, the cost of playing small, and why putting in the reps early can lead to long term rewards.

This episode is a must listen for business owners looking to level up their mindset, pricing strategy, and work ethic to achieve sustainable success.

Key Takeaways:

• Effort vs Expectation If you want to make £100k, have you put in £100k’s worth of effort

• The Passive Income Myth There is no such thing as effortless money – recurring revenue takes more work not less

• The Cost of Playing Small Underpricing your services and staying in the comfort zone keeps you stuck

• The Power of Mentorship Investing in the right guidance can accelerate your growth far beyond what you would achieve alone

• Work Now Reap Later The people you admire today worked hard yesterday – now it is your turn

If you have ever wondered why your results do not match your ambitions, this episode will give you the reality check and strategy you need. Tune in now.

Links:

Website: https://www.codebreak.co.uk
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/codebreakcrew/
Facebook: https://facebook.com/codebreakcrew/

Joel's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joelstoneofficial/
Joel's Facebook: https://facebook.com/joelstoneofficial/

Free Marketing Budget Calculator: https://codebreak.outgrow.us/knowyournumbers

Arrange a call with Codebreak: https://form.jotform.com/241272835208051

Transcript

0:13

Martha. Our second recording today. Our second recording where I have a migraine and I have to stare into some lights. George's second ever recording. George is in. He's loving life. Doesn't look like he's loving life. Does he not? And we're talking about, um, effort. So, really, this is about, like, if you want to sell £10,000 worth of stuff, have you made £10,000 worth of effort? It's a question I ask myself a lot because, like, I'll give you an example. A lot of our clients will run sales events. Could be an open day. Could be a webinar. Could be, like, a Black Friday offer. And they'll be like, oh, we're going to make £100,000 out of this. And then they spend a grand on ads and they do some leafleting and some promo. And, like, the honest question is, are you going to make £100,000? Have you put in £100,000 worth of effort? And if the answer is no, you're not going to make £100,000? Yeah, I see this a lot. A lot, a lot of clients will come and say, I want to have a real care and review. Yeah, yeah, great. I want to sell a £30 thing to anybody. Anybody who comes into my, I want to sell them this. And it's like, is it good? Like, is it actually good? Is it going to retain? That's the dream of passive income, right? And it's really difficult to tell people there's no such thing as passive income. Yeah, it's a lot of effort. Like, reoccurring revenue, if anything, is more effort because you've got to prove every month your worth. It's a huge amount of effort to make it look like you're making no effort. A lot of people get caught with this in property. They'll be like, I'll get one or two properties. I'll make two, three hundred quid a month extra on each of those. And it's like, I'm telling you now, six hundred quid a month profit isn't not going to be enough to make it worth it with all the headaches two additional properties in your life come with. And like a guy I know is like, if you want to get into property, unless you're going to have at least ten, don't bother. Really? Because the headache's so bad that until you hit that magic number, it doesn't make logical sense. I don't like a guy that I know really well has recently got into rent to rent and he's really finding it brutal. It's giving him a beating. Is that like arbitrage? I don't know what that means. Airbnb arbitrage? Might do. Basically, he's renting a house and then re-renting it for Airbnb, yeah. But you get all the headaches. Sounds great for the landlord, though. Yeah, the landlord washes his hands, like five-year long-term lease. And then you rent it out. And obviously, short-term rents should be higher value than the long-term lease. And then the difference pays for the laundry and the turnaround and keeping it tidy and stuff. But it just doesn't, unless you're really, really good and you've got a special enough property or enough properties. And so then the thing becomes the other way. You're putting in twenty grand's worth of effort for ten grand back. Yeah, because you're looking at, like, I've got all this profit. And then you're like, but I'm on the phone for twenty hours a day. So I'm actually being paid six pound an hour. And I guess the skill comes where you can put in five grand's worth of effort and get ten grand back. But the reason that that happens is because you've done the reps before. Yeah, because you're talking about this, weren't we, about the origins of Stay Hungry. And, you know, you work really hard for five years and then you can retire. You know, you just cane it for five years and then you can chill for a bit. You can't do the chilling without the caning. Clip that up. Just that bit. You can't just prompt to clip every time you want Jack to fucking edit the podcast. You can't do that. Poor Jack. Jack, clip that up. That could be so badly. Just clip up. What kind of cane? You've got to cane it. But it's essentially you get out what you put in. Now, sometimes some of those reps will have been ten years ago. And sometimes it'll be like directly attributable. But you meet a lot of people who get into business. And they're like, this is going to be easier than my nine to five. Or like, I've done this because I'm fed up. I'm sick of answering to the man. And it's like, well, fucking hell. Wait till you've had to answer to a client. Then you'll fucking learn. It's, yeah, the grass isn't greener. And like, when you meet these people who've... I mean, I know there's always outliers. You'll occasionally meet someone who's won the lottery or who's accidentally made a fortune out of Bitcoin or something. Generally, when you meet someone who's made a lot of money from nothing, they've made a lot of sacrifices to do it. Or they're not happy. Well, that's the sacrifice, right? Like, they're probably divorced and cry themselves to sleep at night. Like, you know, like, I've been on the cusp, not of divorce, but... Well, I don't know. Like, speaking honestly, like, I'm sure there's been times where Hannah's gone, what the fuck am I doing with this lunatic? But business is hard. And sometimes it's hard to switch off. And you'll go, like, we have a very good relationship. I can go home. I went home really late last night. And she was jabbering at me. And I was like, I'm ever so sorry, but anything that comes out of my mouth in the next hour is not aimed at you. I'm just fucked. And I was like, well, why is it? Because I'm putting in a lot of effort at the moment. Because I want to get the business to the next stage. We've recruited three people. We've got clients flying in. It's fucking hard. And that's not a woe, it's me. I don't want someone to show up with a tiny violin and play it for me. Although, if you would, that might be nice on a Friday. It's just the reality. Like, I went to the football on Saturday with my mates. And they're like, you look knackered. I am knackered. I hate when people say that, though. It's so fucking rude. Depends who it is. But it's like, you think I don't know? You think I don't have a mirror at my house? Oh, yeah. Or I've fallen asleep. Are you okay? You look ill. Yeah, I'm fine. But, like, that's the point, right? Like, it's offensive to other business owners when you're expecting a result that no one else has ever got. So you're like, oh, I'm going to put on this event. And I'm going to make a million pound. But I'm still going to only work two days a week. And I'm going to spend the other five days in the pub. No, you're not. And I want to keep that million. And I'm going to spend £10 on ads. Yeah. And like, oh, well, so-and-so did, did they? Do you know that for sure? Yeah. Like, do they have a relationship with their children? Like, do their families still speak to them? Do you know the ins and outs of their lives? Did they have to sell all their cars? Like, do they seem to be wearing the same clothes every day? Like, you don't know the full story. And we can all pluck, like, the anomaly, who's like the shining beacon of I made a million out of nothing. But that ain't you. Well, I don't know anybody. Like, everybody who I know who has a good, like, who I aspire to be, like, all work really hard. And do you think it's that if you look from the outside at someone's, like, Instagram or their posts where they're trying to attract clients, you'd be like, oh. I really worry about this. Because I work, like, I deliberately do the opposite now sometimes. But I worry that sometimes my Instagram gives the impression that it's easy breezy. But that's what Instagram does, that's what everybody's Instagram does. You look your best. Yours doesn't. Half yours is fucking high rocks. I look at yours and go, fuck that. Yeah, but you haven't seen the pictures that didn't make it on. Yeah, yeah. This is me looking good at high rocks. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, those are the good ones. Can you imagine what those ones look like? Yeah, but like, you know, for every picture of me, like, in a hot and sunny place chatting to famous people from the marketing world, there's a hundred could have been pictures of me rocking myself to sleep at night. Crying over your laptop. Yeah, literally, like, even today, I was messaging you, I was like, I'm going to have to stop messaging Martha, because I'm in a stinking mood, and it's going to reflect in my messages. And like, people don't realise that's what other people are like, dealing with. Yeah. They're having a great time. It must be fun running a market. I mean, it's fun running a market. I wouldn't do it otherwise. But... It's hot. It's not. Yeah, it's not. It's not. Finish early on a Friday. Well, no, it's meant to be. But we've never quite cracked that. Yeah, like, I'm very sort of keen for people to see their effort as an investment in themselves. Like, I think people who aren't in business very often, my family included, can be like, if you carry on like that, you're going to kill yourself. And that's fair. But I'm putting in the reps now, so at some point, life is easier. And I'm not saying it'll be easier, like, you know, everyone's got problems, stuff goes on. But there should come a point where I can be a bit more detached from the business. I reap my rewards then. And the hours you spend training people, teaching them how to do it, it's so that they can do it. Yeah, like, right now, the maths don't math, if that makes sense. Like, leaders eat last. That's the new Simon Saynette book. You're welcome, Simon. But... It will. Because, you know, either one of you guys will decide to take over the business, or run itself, or we'll get to a place where I'm not needed as much. And that'll be great. But we're not there, and I have to put the reps in. George has decided to exit the podcast. Yeah, he said, don't like this one. It's boring. The last podcast was way better. He's like, I'm not putting any effort in, fuck off. Someone called me Josh today. Did they? Yeah. Who? Someone on our sales call. It says my name on the screen. Yeah. I was going to call you today, though, didn't I? In an email. To be fair, the name that you used was in the subject line of the email, so I see how it happened, but they were really looking forward to sticking the knife in on you in that email, weren't they? Yeah. Yeah. Just what I was. Does not zap my energy, that. So... Sorry. No, I'm excited for what you were going to say. Oh, I was just going to say that we had a client who spelt their own name wrong on a podcast the other day. What? They put... Actually, I'm not going to say in case they listen. I'd rather you didn't do that, George. Oh, my God. Look at your dog. Embarrassing himself. Why? He's like, I'm getting on this podcast one way or another. I'm going to scoot. So, one of the things that I don't think people grasp is there's a cost to playing small. So, like, I would say a lot of people watch what I do and see, fucking Ali's taking some big risks, but they're calculated risks. And unless you play big, and I don't mean like massive, I'm not hiring fucking Wembley Stadium, am I? Yet. Yet. Yeah. But unless you play with a certain amount of risk and at a certain size, the returns aren't worth it. When you play small, you're just forever playing small. It doesn't compound because there's not enough of it. Yeah. And that was something I really struggled with early doors in business was like, I wanted to be affordable. I wanted to be competitive. I wanted to be... And so you price yourself low. You work really hard. You show up to the opening of an envelope. And then two years later, you're in exactly the same position because you couldn't afford to reinvest in yourself. You couldn't afford to grow. Couldn't afford drugs. You're still talking to the same people who have the same mentality. And then I changed and was like, actually, I need to charge what I'm worth, reinvest in myself, and put myself in rooms that make me feel uncomfortable. And now I would say every three years, I'm like, I'm not going to do that. And now I would say every three or four months, I make a new friend in business. And they're normally someone that inspires me and has done things that I haven't. And it pushes me to that next level. They're someone who's... If I've made 10 grand's worth of effort to make 10 grand, they've made 100 grand's worth of effort to make 100 grand. Birds of a feather. If you hang around with five drunk people, you'll be the sixth drunk. You hang around with five millionaires, you'll be the sixth millionaire. Hopefully. I better bin off all those crack addicts. I've got a question, actually. You're the first mentorship. Maybe not the first one, but the first high ticket. Did that feel uncomfortable? I joined. So it's called One Man Empire. Rambo guy called Charlie. He's a real sane guy. It's for men. But if you work by yourself and you're looking to grow your business, top bloke. Does he still...? Still does it. I haven't spoken to him since I left. That's kind of one of his rules. Oh, is it? You're out, you're out. Yeah. Fair enough. I think so. And he can't be emotionally attached then. He's like, well, this person's not paying me anymore, and I've got my own family to think about. And people who are paying me. And he told you all along that was the case. And I respect that. Like, I'm sure if I saw him in the pub, we'd be mates. Yeah, he's not going to run out the door. No, but it was a grand a month, I think. Yeah, it would have been. A grand a month. Yeah, it would have been. A grand a month, which is not a small amount of money. And once a month, he'd sit around a table with the other members. And then once a week, he'd do like an online thing. And that 12 grand investment in that first year, I reckon added 100 grand to the business. Just by being around people who'd done stuff I'd never done. Completely changed my outlook. Yeah. Like, the first time you upped your prices. Scary, right? I remember when Charlie found out our prices. Fucking hell, it was embarrassing. So I'm not even sure Code Break existed. It might have been just pre-Code Break. And I think we used to manage Facebook ads for like 400 quid a month. And then for an extra 200 quid, you'd do your organic. And he was like, you need to be charging like 10 times that. 200 quid for organic is... Honestly, the amount of Christmas days I've lost to fucking posts going out at 2 minutes past 12 instead of 2 minutes to 12. But yeah, he was like, you need to be charging 10 times that. And my arse fell out. I was like, what? People won't pay that. He's like, yeah, they will. The right people will. Yeah, all right, Charlie. And it was such a, it was like, I'd probably, in that first six months with Charlie, and we were probably with him four years, I probably learned more about business and life in that six months than at any other stage of my life. Because, yeah, I guess when you've been in a few- Well, I went from like yokel, structured business, charging 50 quid to design and print and deliver some business cards, to charging like two grand for a full-service marketing product. And that's a hell of a curve. And an effort. Well, what Charlie was saying is like, you are currently the guy that's doing two grand of effort to make 20 quid. Yeah. Like, this is fucking insane. No wonder you feel ill. And I do quite like being on that side of the equation. I always like the client feeling like they're getting great value, that I've got bases covered, I'm looking after them. I think there's something to be said for that. But then you need to be smart behind the scenes to make sure you're not burning yourself out. And I wasn't, I never used to be smart behind the scenes. I've even had it. I've had it like, so many times I've like, gone above and beyond and for nothing. No one cares. I'm just not doing that anymore. It's not good for me, it's not good for them. Yeah, and also like forgetting to tell people. You go above and beyond. Silent soldier. Yeah, they don't give a shit. It's like, oh, by the way, your Zapier broke at the weekend. We didn't build it, but I noticed it had happened. So I jumped on and I fixed it all. You have to tell them. I was like, yeah, so I think, I guess like that was the first mentorship where there was like dramatic, dramatic difference. And then that's when we decided to stop was when I met Neil. Yeah, was it in COVID you saw him speak? Yeah, I saw him speak on a virtual conference. And the long story short was it was like, he was saying things I'd never heard people say before. And I've met a lot of people in the digital ad space. It doesn't matter what it costs, I have to work with this man, which was kind of lovely. Yeah. So yeah, and then I've been in other mentorships as well. You know, I did Expert Empires, which is a big one. I'm in one now. The one I'm in now is more mindset for me. There is loads of business advice and all sorts in there, but it's more mindset for me. And like you always, like you probably haven't told the new buds that like they wouldn't have been able to cope with old Joel. Yeah. Like they don't think I'm chilled, but I'm way more chilled than I used to be. Yeah, and I am. Well, me and you have been on a journey, Marth. We have been on a journey. You've seen it all in three years. Yeah, nearly four, maybe even more. We'll be here, end of COVID to 2025, yeah. That's wild. Fucking hell. Yeah, but I used to get stressed over such silly things. The pebble in your shoe. Yeah. And like, I went to a lot of events with you that have just completely like, sometimes I feel like on this podcast, like I shouldn't be like, like I'm not qualified to talk about like business growth because I haven't grown a business. You've been to more business events than most business owners. And I've met a lot of people who are insanely inspirational and they've all got coaches. Oh yeah, this is funny. So our client Lewis, another top guy, posted about his event the other day on Instagram and some guy, he's called Jack. No other name mentioned. Do I know him? No. And he jumped on the post and he was like, this is a fucking, Lewis is a coach and he teaches other coaches how to make their clients adhere. So like, do what they said they would. So like, stick to their calorie plan. Do the reps. Run the miles. Write the journal. Write the journal, yeah, exactly. And this Jack guy's commented something like, fucking hell, soon it's going to be coaches for coaches for coaches for coaches for coaches. And Lewis was like, oh, he commented something like, had a look at your video editing agency. Amazing that you managed to learn to do all that editing stuff by yourself. Well, that's fucking, but anyway, there was loads and loads of back and forth. And this guy claimed that like, most people in the video space learn how to edit through practice and nothing else. And he was like, well, that's fucking ludicrous. If someone could show you how to do something, why wouldn't you let them? Yeah. And like, surely, like even watching a YouTube video, you've looked, you haven't taught it to yourself. Yeah. And anyway, it panned out. This guy was like, yeah, so just go and sell another course. And he was like, I don't sell courses. It was just so weird. But I don't even know what point I was trying to make. Well, he does have a coach though, right? That was, yeah, this is the point I was trying to make. It's like, a lot of people are like, oh, fucking hell. And it comes from the life coach thing, but oh, another coach. But it's just a word, like mentor, coach, like icon, fucking role model. Jackie Chan. Yeah. Was he a coach or a mentor? He was in the- Karate Kid? New Karate Kid with Jaden Smith. Yeah. If you want. See Jaden Smith's outfit yesterday? Yeah, the house. I thought it was a castle. What was the meaning? Somebody's got a- Got a castle on his head. Yeah, but why? I don't know. Did you see Kanye's wife? Yeah. Was she actually naked or was it like a naked bodysuit? I guess she wouldn't know if it was a good one. I didn't ask her. I wasn't invited to the Grammys. All the pictures I've seen, like people like covering the photo. Oh, really? I guess for like nudity, so you don't get banned. It was a lot. And he's just fully clothed. And she's young, isn't she? Like, that's a strange relationship. I forget he's remarried. In my head, he's still married to Kim. Yeah. Anyway, they've probably got coaches. They need them. They've got something going on, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so sort of back to the point then. How do you know when you've put in enough effort? Not that it's easy. But that it feels rewarding. Yeah. Either with results. I brought that up with the lads this morning. That most people are afraid of a challenge, but they don't realise that that's where all the reward is. Yeah, that initial step out your comfort zone is terrifying. Heart palpitations, sweating. The next step feels good. Yeah, and it's not necessarily financial, but you're not gonna feel like you enjoy your job or your business or your sport or your hobby unless you're doing things that are actually challenging you. Yeah, treading water is... It's just shit. I fucking hate... Did you have swimming at school? Yeah. Does it make us tread water? I swear it's because the PE teacher could not be arsed. I used to hate it. I'd be like, what are we doing? Like... I was in the rubbish group with an oil kid. You knew something terrible then, didn't you? No. I was gonna say shit and then I'd say... Oh, okay. I was just too naughty to be allowed in the deep end. Oh, really? Well, for some reason, they used to make us tread water for about 15 minutes. I used to be like, what are we doing? Survival. Well, I think that's the logic, was like, if you ever get washed out to sea, I was like, well, more than 15 minutes. There isn't a side to hold on to. And I won't be swimming back. And also, the joy in here is when I get knackered, I can just sink to the bottom and then jump back up again. So, yeah, it's just fucking doing my head in. But yeah, treading water is bad news. And like, totally appreciate that every once in a while you have to have a tread water day, or like a veg out day. But I think... Gotta have big goals. And challenges and a bit of purpose in front of you is what works. And if you're like trying to achieve something, but you want to achieve it without any effort, it's not going to feel like an achievement anyway. No, it'll always be the next thing. That was my end point, you ruined it. What's been your biggest takeaway? Oh, you're getting me on it, are you? Josh came in and he said to me, every time I listen to the podcast, it seems like you're never ready for the final answer. And I was like, oh, you've noticed that. What was that? Sounds like we just had an earthquake. It's probably them not cabling. That sounded awful. That's some euthanism, I don't know. So what's my biggest takeaway from this podcast? It's, I think it is that, like, if you're expecting to feel a sense of achievement, but you haven't made any effort, expect not to feel any achievement. So yes, there might come a point where you're so good at business that you can literally magic 100 grand out of nowhere, but it won't feel very good. Wouldn't it be better to magic 500 grand and then reward all of your staff with a bonus? I mean, this is very facetious, but do you know what I mean? Like that, my takeaway is like. There's no value, is it? They're like the monetary value is the most. And be grateful for the grind. I don't mean like hustle and grind. I'm not saying like, you'll be fucking out there hustling, but some people aren't afforded the opportunity to like grow a business or step up to the plate, take responsibility, because they've got enough shit going on. I saw something today that was like, be grateful that you get to go home and make tea, even though you don't want to. Be grateful that you're able to go to the gym, even though you don't want to. Be grateful you've got a messy house to tidy. Be grateful that, you know, that you've got, you've can grind. People are relying on you. Yeah, I mean like, this is probably an odd direction to take at the end of a podcast, but at the moment I visit my dad quite frequently in a hospital, he's on a psychiatric ward. And like a bit of a structured phrase, like what do you know? As in like what you've been up to? What's the latest news? Like what's happening? I always say to him, oh, dad, nice to see you. What do you know? Not a lot, mate, there's nothing to do here. And I literally, he can read a book, make his bed, make a cup of tea, watch the snooker, repeat. And I'm fucking moaning that I've got a triad at work.