EXTRAordinary Women Episode 8 - Hannah Wrixon

This episode features Hannah Wrixon, CEO of KELLA, and a seasoned entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience in startups, technology, and HR.

Recently exiting WrkWrk, her third startup, which was a multi-award-winning company formerly known as Get the Shifts Ltd., Hannah brings extensive leadership and innovation to KELLA. She leads the "Back for Business"; and "Going for Growth"; programs and has been a judge for the National Enterprise Awards for the past four years.

With a background in leading international teams and developing bespoke software, she is an alumna of the prestigious EY European Winning Women program. Honored as the Image Digital & Technology Businesswoman of the Year in 2019 and the Network Ireland Businesswoman of the year 2019. Hannah also holds qualifications in Strategic Leadership (L9) and a Dip Corporate Governance.

EXTRAordinary Women podcast is created by O'Brien Learning Solutions. O'Brien Learning Solutions helps create a corporate culture that attracts and retains top talent. O'Brien Learning Solutions is a leadership development firm with a focus on helping individuals, teams and organisations to successfully navigate through periods of change, no matter how big or small.

If you’d like to get in touch check out our website at https://obrienlearningsolutions.ie.

Thanks for listening!

Transcript

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So welcome everybody to this month's edition of Extraordinary Women, my podcast aimed to promote women to do extraordinary things. My guest this month is Hannah Wrixon. And Hannah is a native of Clare and she is joining me today graciously to tell us a bit about her journey as a female entrepreneur, a mother, a founder. She is just a success story from start to finish. And I'm always in awe of Hannah. And as to how she does everything that she does, and we were just talking about that before we started. Hannah has started a new company as well KELLA which is going to talk to us about. She's recently climbed Kilimanjaro. So we have a lot to talk about. So, Hannah Wrixon, you are very, very welcome to our podcast. Thanks Denise. So we were kind of chatting earlier about being busy now and, you know, maybe taking holidays and things like that. So just talk to me about your life at the moment before we go back to where it all started. So what has you busy these days and where are you at right now? So I suppose just now I exited my last business in October 2023, and I went straight into a Start-Up environment again, which I love. So I'm just on the thick of my Start-Up environment. You know, all of the all of the scrapping that's involved in that, between getting the business off the ground and making sure we are our customers are identified, making sure that there's a market for what we're thinking and making sure that our tech is working, making sure that our funding in place. So there's a lot of balls in the air at the moment and you know, working through the summer with two teenagers who are loving an absent mother because they get to spend all day on their devices isn't ideal for the girls either. Oh dear. Okay. So we have a little bit of mum guilt we might talk about, you know, the the burden that comes, I think at times with women in business and motherhood and all that kind of stuff. But let's just talk about your new business for now. Do you want to tell our listeners what that's about and what who it's for? Yeah, so I suppose it's a bit of background. That was when I came out of the last business I was in a good position. It was my third exit and it was a really nice time in my life to start thinking about how I could possibly give back. I've been very supported over the years through different networks. I'm a lead on going for growth and back to business for Paula Fitzsimons. I've also been a mentor through EI and through all of those experiences, I suppose I recognised that there was an issue, but the issue was that some women in Ireland are not very well supported, so I think some women are very well supported through the entrepreneurship programs like for Going to Growth, Back for Business, Starting Strong Acorns and Network Ireland doing amazing job as well but the women that we looked at that really had less support were the women who were in corporate positions. And then when we started to drill down into that, we discovered that there was a huge drop off around middle management and that at senior leadership, there's only 19% representation of women. So we started to drill down into those numbers and kind of realised that actually those women have to be very lonely and unsupported. And and the research set up saying 67% do feel unsupported and lonely in their roles. And 70% of women say it gets worse on the way up. So, you know, we started thinking about kind of what kind of architecture support system could we put around women on their journeys through their careers. And that's where Kella leadership came out of so it started off very focussed on the senior leader, the established founder, the exited founder, but it has now developed into two tiers because actually women at mid-level leadership management and kind of scaling founders were really, really interested in what we're doing and really interested in getting a support network. And I suppose unlike other networks and other conferences, this is an ongoing support system. So it was about for me, it was about I go to these amazing conferences and events and then I am so enthused and inspired and I think these most amazing women and I'm like, my head is going to fall off. It's so full of ideas and new connections and relationships. And then I go back to the desk on Monday and it's kind of like, okay, here I am on my own again.... and its about supporting women at that stage. So that's Kella leadership. It would be webinars, speaker series, masterclasses. It's a way to connect, to engage and support women. There's beautiful retreats. There's one day executive seminars, so there's a lot going on. Excellent. And you're collaborating with Caroline Dunlea and Gina London on that project? Yeah, they're my co-founders. Excellent. So Gina has been a previous guest on the podcast, and Caroline is obviously another Shannon native. So that's absolutely a powerful dynamic that you have going on there. So I wish you wish you well with that because you know, some of the work that I do, obviously, I see women and men, you know, I work across different genders and industries as well. And I do see people on the way up and struggling to figure out how do I lead what is expected of me, how would I like to lead, and what kind of a legacy, what kind of a legacy do I want to leave behind? You know, so It's also having a peer group because I think and again, this is not a feminist movement. This is not a burn your bra This is not anything like that. This is all about levelling the playing field. So it's not anti men or pro-women. It is about levelling the playing field. And I think that we have a lot of male speakers, we have a lot of male leaders in our webclass our masterclasses and our webinars because that's really important and that male voice is really important. But where it really comes down to it is women in senior leadership positions may be the only woman at that level, and they need a peer group that they can actually speak to and discuss issues in a safe environment where they feel that they can trust the other people. And I think I spoke to one senior leader in a multinational tech company in Ireland here, and she said she didn't feel she'd been honest in her job for 20 years, couldn't because it would make her look less than her peers. So that's not a good place to be in. Yeah, now I think the time is definitely ripe for this kind of a movement. So more, more power to you. And Hannah, you mentioned there it was your third exit. In terms of those previous companies. What did you learn from from setting those up, from building them up from the ground? Do you want to talk a little bit about that for our listeners as to what kind of a legacy you had before you stepped into Kella? Sure so I suppose I'm an accidental tech entrepreneur, so the official term is, a non-tech tech founder. So I wanted to use technology to connect people. And so every, every role I've had is really about connecting people. And my first development, I literally wrote it out on A4 sheets of paper. I had it on the ground and brought my developer by the hand around the sheets of paper; okay, so if you press the button on page one, you end up on page four and on page four you've got your choice, and that's how I developed the software. So I think the first thing would be to be not afraid of what you don't know. If you, if you are very clear about your vision, are very clear about what you want to happen or what you want your business to do and how you want it to support people, you can bring people in to tell you the how. You need to know the why. If you're very clear on the why. So I suppose, that's the first thing. The second thing is that it doesn't get any easier to to have a Start-Up. Like start-ups are hard. But what it does get is faster because every problem I am meeting, I've already met it like it's like, bring it, I can do this, no problem. And I always think that again, if you know your why and you know where you want to go, there's no straight line. There doesn't have to be. That can be an up and under, an around over, you know, you get there if you're very, very focussed. And what is it about the Start-Up dynamic that appeals to you? You think, the uncertainty, the risk, the adrenaline, the the absolute. It's not. So, you know, there's absolutely from day to day, your your day is different. You never know what's going to come up in front of you. I think that, you know, I think totally undiagnosed ADHD. So I like to be very busy, but I like to be very busy in a lot of things all at once. My three kids are diagnosed ADHD, and my oldest is looking at me saying, you know, it's hereditary. So, you know, you need to look at that. So I think that's what it does. It kind of keeps me engaged. I also love it. I love it. So, you know, do something you love and never feel like work. I love what I do. And what kind of skills do you think you've developed over the years? If you look back to say, you know, when you were, I presume you were probably in your twenties when you started out in your career, what skills have you developed over time that have helped you to have this entrepreneurial mindset and skill set and start up mentality? like everyone that you talk to, would probably say resilience, you know, like resilience, resilience. I mean, I think that's a very overused word in, in this space. I think you have to have a sense of humour. You have to you have to laugh at things. You have to not take yourself too seriously. You have to not take things personally. It's not personal. If something doesn't work, it's just business. You have to let things go. You have to not hold on to what happened yesterday and keep looking forwards and move on. But what's happening today or next week? I think everything that happens in your past, you know, makes you stronger if you let us and if you use the lessons from the past, you will move forward. But if you if you try and dissect them and you stay there in that moment, then that's a very stagnant place to be. So I think always learning, I think you're never the smartest person you know that you know, you should always assume that someone else knows something that you don't know. And every conversation, every opportunity, every interaction is a learning opportunity. So, okay, so open mindedness is what I'm here and, you know, and just an ability to be able to adapt quickly and move quickly and know when an idea maybe is past its sell by date, know when to let go of things that aren't working. Have you had one of the the articles I wrote recently was just about the power of failure, you know, and learning from so-called failed ideas. Have you had any learnings like that over the years where you've maybe had the project up and running and decided, actually this is I'm going to let this go or Yeah, so many times, about three times a week. So everywhere, everywhere I go, I'm like, this would be an amazing business. I literally cannot go anywhere. We come back from holidays and I was opening restaurants, bought the domain. I was like, This is amazing. I'm just going to do it. It's it's constant. It's constant. And then you go, okay, I've looked into it, you know, very high level. Is this something I really want to do? Is this something I'm passionate about? Is it something that I'll be passionate about in a year? Yeah. If not, no. Yeah. Okay. And how would you know? And also, is it something that's going to make money, you know, like there's no point in being in business if you're not going to make money, so. You know, it's all well and good and so much value if it is purpose led. Absolutely. But you also have to put food on the table and a roof over your head. So, you know, you really need to think. Is it going to make money as a viable. Yeah. Okay. So you're not opening a restaurant yet anyway? No, not yet not yet And tell us a bit about your earlier life, you know, at school and, like, what were you like? Were you always full of ideas and creativity? What was that like for you back then? So I started my first business and I was 11 and I spent I had a teacher called Sister Jennifer in primary school, and she taught us how to make stuffed animals. And I thought, this is the best thing since sliced bread. So I spent all my pocket money. I bet I bought a load of fur, fake fur material, and spent the summer holed up in not even in my house, in my mum's friend's house in Galway, where we stayed for the summer, making these. I took over their office, their back room, and I made these things on the sewing machine for hours, didn't sell any and was left with loads. They followed us around for years. Okay. But I think that that was kind of, you know, I was always interested. I was a really curious child. I was interested in electronics. I was interested like in circuits for Christmas. I got like crocodile chips and batteries with bulbs. So I was always taking apart things much to my parents to just take a practice speaker, to have a look and see how it worked. I knew how the car engine works. I was always really curious about those kinds of things and I suppose I wasn't pushed into those directions and I think if I had been are encouraged, I would have probably looked at an area of engineering. But at the time it really wasn't something that was done. You know, both of my parents, my father was an entrepreneur. My mother is a very creative person, but, but neither of them were really interested in education. It was kind of like, you know, something that you had to get through and sustain and come out the other end. So there was no expectation that I would go to college. Yeah, not that any of my siblings would go to college. It was just about kind of getting out and getting into the workplace and yes, being happy with whatever you're doing but that that was kind of difficult. And it's difficult now to think that if I had been a little bit more encouraged or pushed, I might have done something like that, but hey, go I wouldn't be where I am today. So yeah. And what did you like? What did you find yourself doing then? Like after school? You know, some people are very interested in, did people go down an academic route? Didn't they? Don't mean anything. Does it matter? No, so I hated school. I absolutely hated school. I was. I wasn't a good student. I found it really hard to stay focussed. I didn't like to study. And again, we weren't encouraged to study at home. We weren't there's no pressure put on us at all to study. And if we need to a sick day, my mother would say, No, ok stay at home You know, you need the break. So it was a very different approach to what I would have with my children. Yeah. So I think then, like I remember being told by the careers teacher, I had said that I was interested in something to do with STEM, and she was saying, You can't do that, don't be silly, you know, don't ...no. So I left school feeling very stupid. I'm not interested at all in progressing in education, but very disillusioned by it. It had been a very horrible experience for me. But what I did do was I did new opportunities for women, was was a programme at the time government initiative to try and bring women into a kind of male dominated industries. So I went and did aircraft maintenance Technician and Shannon Airport. Wow, Yeah. As part of that and got involved as a working with my hands. You know, it's very technical. I know I've always loved maths and but again was told there's no jobs for women so the money is being made in consultancy or travelling all around the world as you know from Shannon and you know was kind of fly in, fly out in a very rudimentary form. But no women would be taken on in those kind of roles. So what to do next? So then I did General Engineering in FAS because I was kind of desperate to stay in that. And again, it was probably a years course. But, you know, it didn't it didn't really capture me. There was no jobs. I went off to Australia when I was 20 and for a one year working visa, met a guy and fell in love, got pregnant and came home pregnant to my mum. And she her reaction was, at least you're not getting married. So it's a very different way of being in the world, in my mum's world, which was great because, you know, she was so delighted and very supportive with Callum. And then I went back to Australia when he was ten months old because I felt at the time in 1998 and didn't want to be a single parent in Ireland. I thought society, I didn't want to be pigeonholed and I felt that I had been a lot already and I didn't want to kind of give people another excuse to look at me in a different light. So I went back to Australia, which in hindsight was very brave, crazy, left my support system, went back with Greg, separated from Greg when I was a single parent in Australia, and I decided at that point to go back to study. So I went back because it was easier than having a full time job with him. I felt I was more available to him. So I went back to study Human resources, business Administration and marketing through TEIF. So if you've ever watched Home and Away, okay, you've heard of TEIF that's would have been the equivalent of kind of the technical institutes here. Yeah. And then I got accepted into university to study human resources. Very excited about that. But then I had also there was a lot of stuff going on in my personal life, and I decided to return to Ireland and Caitlin was around four and a half. So dropped out of university came back to Ireland. So it was a difficult decision to make, but it was the right one for our family. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Part of my story would be similar as well to the action going back then as a but I went back as a mature student with a child with a mortgage to study eventually. Did you go back into studies at any stage in your in your career? So in 2022. I went back sorry, in 2019 I started a masters in an LIT I was accepted onto a master's program. Based on my experience, I goes, But it came within a couple of months. I was kind of going, I'm doing all this stuff in my in my job. I don't need to do this for a piece of paper. You know, it really doesn't make sense to me to kind of dedicate that amount of time for a piece of paper. And there was it was an internal battle with myself that I didn't feel good enough if I didn't have the piece of paper. So I I'd have a really big chat myself at that point and go, You have the skills. Just because you don't look at a piece of paper, doesn't does that actually make a difference? No one is tracking that except you. But what I did do then is in 2022 I went and did something I really wanted to do, which was the Professional Diploma in Strategic Leadership, which was level nine in UL And I loved that. And I really came out of this going, I've got this. I, I know what I do I've done it. I went and did in 2023 I did my my diploma in corporate governance. Again, something I'm very interested in and something that I felt, you know, I can add value here by sitting on boards and and that would be an interesting thing for me. So education's really important. I've always studied all through the years I've kind of done diplomas here and diplomas there. I'm really interested in learning, but it's just I never got the degree. Yeah, what you have you've taken a very practical stance though, when you've you've got accreditations and qualifications and master's and all kinds of diplomas that you're actually put an end to use on your. Yeah. So absolutely. And I think that comes back to my value as well about if you know where you want to go. You know there's lots of different ways to get there. And for me, that's been my case in my relationship with education. Yeah, absolutely. And in terms of, you know, prioritisation and trying to manage everything you mentioned at the start, teenage children being at home and maybe you're gone away a little bit. Like how Because it is an important discussion to have, you know, around balancing things and maybe sacrifices you've had to make. I don't know. Like, have you any thoughts on that? Like, how do you make that work? What what, what do women... Yeah, there's no there's no magic bullet. There's no there's no one size fits all. Everybody's individual. And I've always said to parents who ask me for advice, I've said, Don't ever ask other parents for advice. Just do whatever you want to do. You know, I think it's really important because once you invite people into that conversation in your personal life, they feel like they can give you their opinion. Their opinion doesn't always match your opinion. So I think it's really important again, to know to know what you want to do. For me, it's always been about quality versus quantity of time with my children. When I'm with them, I'm with them 100%. So there is no laptop, there's no screens. There has definitely been times where I've had to take a call or I've had to do X, Y and Z. But we have I'm all about experiences and we have really beautiful and lovely experiences together so that they know I'm in their corner. They know if there's a problem, I'm here and we we have fun, we have to the craic. So yeah, the relationships and really exciting things like that. So let's give you an example I was at a conference in Madrid, I flew back into Dublin. I had a going for Growth's meeting in Dublin, and then I had asked my husband to collect me from Dublin with my children and we drove to Belfast. We went to see Lizzo in Belfast. We drove up as far as the the Giant's Causeway to meet at the Giant's Causeway, and then we did Sam Fender in Dublin on the way down. We were gone for three days, four days, three nights. They're still talking about us like I can't believe We went to concerts and one weekend like that and it's that kind of stuff. But you know, like getting down to their level, having that chat about FIFA, you know, I've no interest in who's what's happening in football or anything like that. But, you know, my 16 year old really does. That's his passion. So let's have that conversation. I've had to learn the offside route for him in order to have those conversations and figure that one out eventually, eventually as well. But I just think it's really important. So I always think it's quality versus quantity, and to be there I work from home, I'm available to them. I've always made it. One of my values is time and one of my personal values and time with them. It's very, very precious. So when they were smaller, we always walked to school and we walked home. We always had chats. We always eat together as a family. And it's gotten harder as we've as they've gotten older. But that's that's is a huge priority for us that that happens 3 to 4 times a week at least. There's no devices and everyone is engaged. And it is a really good time for just chatting and sharing information quality over quantity. I like that. And it sounds like you make efforts to be present with each other for each other, you know that. Yeah. And that's I think that improves the quality of those relationships. Then even if the touchpoints aren't as frequent as you might like, but it's really making them count. Yeah. You know, if I, if I spend more like, you know, I, I do spend a good quantity of time with my children, but like, if we can make it really lovely and then every day doesn't have to be Disneyland or, you know, like that, that's not real life, you know, And there will be the roars. And who didnt do the dishwasher and put on a wash and all those kind of conversations as well. That's real life. It doesn't need to be Disneyland, but it is. They're looking down and I spot it and I say, You alright. What's going on? That's that's the secret sauce. You know that. And you don't notice those things if you don't spend the time. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. And safe to say, obviously for our listeners, that's you you've you married at some point you have you've more children now Yeah I met Davey when Callum was 8, he's 26 now and Oscar is 16 and Clara-Rose is 14 so yeah and again I was quite anti marriage I didn't want to get married I didn't want you know long term relationship was really not for me. I wanted to work. I love my businesses and I was doing that with Calum. I was having a lovely time. And my mother said to me, you know, do you expect someone to walk into your kitchen? And I said well, they kind of need to to mum because I'm too busy, you know, it really wasn't a priority for me. And I actually met Davey in the kitchen of a friend house That was so I saying, Now they did walk into the kitchen, it just wasn't mine amazing, I love it Okay, so obviously Davey's been a support for you then as well. You support each other. I know. Yeah. He's my absolute biggest cheerleader. He's just so supportive. He's. He's very supportive of women in business. He is very supportive of equality and equity in the workplace. He's very supportive of what I'm doing. So, you know, he is always there to step in and and just take the lead whenever I need him to, which is amazing. He also works away a lot. I like to call it his holidays. So when he goes away on his holidays to the hotel and gets his dinner handed up to him, so he works away a lot. So I've been on my own a lot throughout our relationship. But that said, I know that when I need him he would drop everything and he'll be there. So if the kids need him, he would drop everything and be there. My oldest Callum, he's his dad As far as he's concerned, they just adore each other. So it's just it's been a really lovely story. All's well that ends well there. Yeah, absolutely amazing. Just in terms of your career and so much has happened and we could do a whole other podcast where you talk purely just about networking and all those fabulous, you know, support groups for women that you mentioned at the start. But for yourself Hannah when you look back at your career so far and I'm sure there's so much more to come, what would you say are your proudest moments? Are one or two of your greatest achievements professionally? Professionally, I suppose. You know, I'm a really big believer in your name is is gold. You know, if you've got a really good reputation, that's that's really important. So I'm very proud of my reputation. I'm very proud that I have a reputation of being very straight talking. I'll show up when I say I'll show up, I will help you out. If I can , really big believer in pay it forward and don't ask what they can do for you. Ask what you can do for them. That's always the first thing for me. How can I help you? Who can I introduce you to? And I think that kind of has stood to me in in all of my career in that really strong belief that I, if I can connect you with someone that will help you out, I'm going to do that. So I think that's that for me, I'm really proud that I can say that people know that about me. I suppose there's other highlights. You know, I've won awards that I'm very proud of. I've I've made really good friends that are in the business community, and I feel like I can pick up the phone to a lot of people at this point and and they will help me out. Yeah. So I think that's that's what I'm very proud of. And the recent climb then as well with Kilimanjaro, I mean, that's no easy feat. That was for charity, right? Yeah. So we raised for three children's charities, all about empowering education. Wow. Okay. And how long ago did you do that..that was recently. It wasn't it that was. Yeah. So we came back on the 29th of June, so it was recent. It was very recent. It was nine days on the mountain. Again, I went with people that I've met through work. Yeah. So again, very proud to, to, to say that they actually were okay about spending nine days with me, so that's accolade in itself what was that like the climbers was amazing. Yeah it was a it was amazing opportunity. I think one of the really big things for me I was challenged last year when somebody said to me, Who are you if you're not a business person? And I went, pardon? Who are you? If you don't run a business, well, that's your identity. But also, who are you if you're not Davey's wife? And also who are you? If you're not the kids? Mom, you are of that. And I really, really struggled with that Okay. Yeah, really, really struggled with that until I was halfway up that mountain and on summit night. And it was cold and it was dark, and I felt very alone. And I was trudging along and I was watching Samuel's feet going from left to right in front of me. I felt quite sick. I felt like I was going to faint. I felt like I was going to make cause it was really, really tough. And at that point I realised there's no one I can ring here. No one's going to rescue me, no one is going to take me off this mountain. And I realised that I could only rely on myself in that instance. And that was it's actually one of the very few times in my life that I've ever been in that situation where it was only me, my head and my feet that were going to get me out of the situation. No one else was going to save me. I didn't have to because Davey would put me on his back and say, come on up you come, let's go. You know, there was no secret quad. There was no nothing. And at that point I realised that I can do it. I'm strong and resilient I'm enough, I can do this and I'm a nice person and I'm kind and I realised all of those things on that trip. And I think, you know, when we speak about resilience, it's for entrepreneurs, it's cognitive, for business people, it's cognitive resilience that we always fall back on, you know. Ok So that that was a no. But yes, I look at this and here's the solution, and this is what I said, that mental and physical resilience I hadn't ever had to deal with that before. That kind of getting to the end and realising that actually I still have more to give. I think probably the closest to that, if your listeners have experienced childbirth, is that , is that labour where you're ready to go home, you're like, I actually can't do this anymore, Thanks a million, but I'm out of here and you have to then give it that extra bit. And I think that's probably the closest. So that was amazing, that metaphorical and literal. Extra push. Yeah. I love it. Okay, wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing your story with us. Finally, a word of advice for anyone who might be listening to this, who has an idea, any so-called ordinary woman who's just going I have this idea. It niggles in the back of my mind. Maybe it's silly. Maybe I should do something. Maybe I shouldn't have you any advice for someone like that who might be listening? Yeah. Write it down. Investigate it, see if there's a market to your market, research talk with people, you know, really, really drill down before you leave your job before you pack it all in make sure that other people think it's a great idea. That's that then because, you know, there's this whole thing, you know, turnovers for vanity, profit is for sanity. If you're not making money, the amount of stress that you bring into your life. It's not worth it, to scratch an itch. So you have to have to make sure that it's a viable business idea before you go with this, and if it, then just go for it. Yeah, well, that's really solid advice. Hannah, thank you so much. Hannah Wrixon you are an extraordinary woman, and thank you for being on my podcast. Thank you so much. You're welcome.