Ep 37_Audio

Jordan: [00:00:00] This year I'd imagine there'd probably be about 250 to 300 people running naked up and down the pit

Carl: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Rugby Through the Leagues podcast. This week we are welcome to join, join us with The Flaming Unicorns, is actually the man, the my- the legend, the Stu is in person. And we've got Jordan, the organizer from Heart of Wales 7s, who I had the pleasure of actually going to the tournament last we- last year.

Carl: A lot of people wind me up saying that Andy Powell stepped me. I'm just gonna say moved out me channel. But we are here with the two, two legends that are ... We'll, we'll, we'll probably start with Jordan, 'cause obviously it's the Heart of Wales 7s episode that we wanna try and hopefully c- coordinate something a little bit bigger.

Carl: Those that have followed the channel for a while already know Stu, and it's not a, it's not a mirror. There are two people that look like us, so it's ... Jordan, [00:01:00] thanks for joining us, mate. Really appreciate it. 

Jordan: Yeah. No, looking forward to it. 

Carl: So Heart of Wales 7s, for those that haven't been, it's basically lots of massive fields in the hills of Wales Whether the weather is good or not, there's lots of beer, lots of sports, lots of fun, and some naked running.

Carl: How did it all come event? Uh, how did it all come around? How did it all start? 

Jordan: Yeah. Well, that's definitely the best introduction it's ever had, isn't it? I'll, I'll give you that one. Um, yeah, no, it, it- to be honest with you, it, it just happened by chance. Um, I think we're coming up year 11 now. Couple of rugby teams locally to us had, uh, or a couple of rugby clubs have, have tried to launch a sevens, didn't, didn't quite take off.

Jordan: Um, and then just through sort of pure contacts, just through, um, you know, sporting contacts, uh, education contacts, and a few other things that I've done in business, you know, we managed to get 16, 16 men teams for the first year, which, um, you know, which sort of launched us off. And [00:02:00] yeah, sort of you summed it up really.

Jordan: It was just in the middle of nowhere, so it's perfectly neutral. Um, I think everyone was happy with their two-hour round trip to the middle of nowhere. And as usual, we give them a, a good looking after. Plenty of booze, plenty of, uh, plenty of fun, uh, somewhere to sleep when there was a break really. And so, um, it's sort of grown, grown from there.

Carl: I'd made it to the first time last year, and I traveled up from Portsmouth, and I think I lost count after the four hours. I think it made it about six. I don't know. And I was like, all there is is just signs in a different language that I don't understand, and just more hills and fields. I was just like, I'm...

Carl: I was about to ring Stu. I was like, "Mate, I'm lost." Like, the Yeah. I don't, I don't know where any of this is. But, so 11 years this has been going, and obviously it's grown more and more. Obviously the facilities have got better, entertainment. How did it go from 16 teams to where it is now? Especially with such a major blip like COVID in the middle as well, which must have thought, "Fuck, how am I actually gonna [00:03:00] resurrect this?"

Carl: Or did you manage to just survive through? 

Jordan: Oh, well, to be honest with you, my, my only memory of whenever somebody says COVID is just my, uh, my index finger pressing refund, refund, refund on, uh, on a lot of money, which was, uh... Yeah, it, it almost put us, uh, put us in a right pickle, but, uh, yeah, no, we, we sort of, as I said, we, we were quite happy with the, with the 16 teams, and it was a, you know, it was a fair sized tournament for, for where we are.

Jordan: Um, and what we sort of struck quite early on was a lot of the teams really did wanna divide into a bit more competitive sevens compared to the sort of super social, you know, play half-cut in fancy dress sevens. So that wa- that was the, the s- first sort of surge really in, in team numbers. Um, I, I again know in- no background in events or anything like that.

Jordan: I'm a PE teacher by trade. Um, so, you know, all of a sudden there was a, a few years of learning how to get a bit of security on site, um, where to put the fences, [00:04:00] um, how, how to separate some of the compound. Um, and, and then just sort of, you know, logistically what that looks like. And then the big one for us really was Um, you know, how, how do we, how do we get more women here for the men essentially, which is, I think was a fair question.

Jordan: And then so obviously the, the women's rugby kind of grew quite quickly as well. And then the, the school site that I work at, um, has got a number of netball teams, and as you can imagine, even more fields, um, around the back, uh, and plenty of signs. Um, so we started to introduce netball, um, just by shuttle busing them down just for the Saturday.

Jordan: Um, and all of a sudden without even realizing really, we were three years down the line, and we were around 1,500 people. Um, and it, it just sort of Continued from there really, and we, we just keep, kept sort of adding pieces of the jigsaw, if you will 

Carl: As you said, you've now re- reached roughly sort of [00:05:00] 1,500 people over a weekend period.

Carl: How does ... How much of a team does, do you need throughout the year? 'Cause everyone will probably just, all they see is that one bit of the weekend, the three or four days of fun. But- 

Stu: Yeah ... 

Carl: but it's, it's like Santa Claus, isn't it? You've literally got a full-time activity all the way up to those four days.

Carl: 'Cause everything you pre-plan in those four days usually goes wrong, and you gotta start again. How, how m- how many have you got behind the scenes that save the day? 

Jordan: Uh, yeah. We, I, I think we're lucky. It's, it's sometimes as well, it's not numbers, it's, it's just good people, I think. Um, and um, to, to be fair, you know, w- we s- we started off, it was myself and a few people from the rugby club.

Jordan: Um, and then obviously that's sort of grown now into, um, you know, we've g- we got a full, full group of around 10 boys who, who sort of, you know, will take time off work. They'll be there for 16-hour shifts on weekends, uh, probably 24, 24-hour shifts on the actual weekend itself. Um, [00:06:00] they're basically powered by booze, pizza, and, uh,

Jordan: and Yeah ... 'cause it's, it's, the

Jordan: s-

Carl: the Saturday's sort of a bit more of the fun day, then there's the, obviously the Sunday's a bit more of the seven set up. There's a ... It all sort of rolls [00:07:00] into ... You got the bigger, the bigger events, obviously the Shane Williams game that we- Yeah ... um, we obviously have on the, on the Saturday against the Unicorns, and obviously, uh, the women's that also play there.

Carl: Yeah. That you've got a few t- sort of- Bespoke games on the Saturday to welcome everyone 'cause, uh, it does start on the Thursday night, doesn't it? 

Jordan: Yeah. So sort of- Yeah, so what, what we, what we try to do about, uh, I would say sort of like six years in, but you know, six years sounds like a long time, but it's, it's six events where we didn't know what we were doing for the first four really.

Jordan: Um, so I would say by year six, we really looked at trying to in- in- increase really the sort of the experience and the value people were having when they were coming to us. So not just did the, the music increase and, and the sort of different genres of music and the amount of local acts, but we, we got, you know, Flamingo Bingo in.

Jordan: We, we try, we tried to get these other things. You know, white collar boxing soon followed. [00:08:00] Um, and of course then the, the, the Friday night charity matches with the Tough Enough to Care, Flavin Unicorns just almost came at the right time I think for, for us and I think for, for Stu and Tough Enough To Care to just take it to that next level in terms of value and sort of the build-up and the experience.

Jordan: Do you know what I mean? Um, because I think where we are, to put it in perspective, we, we were looking at about 6,000 people attending this year. Uh, the population of Llanidloes is about three and a half. Um, so yeah, so ju- just trying to get the locals on board and, and, you know, give them a, a weekend that you know is gonna be in their calendar every year, um, without taking our eye off the, you know, the experience of the, of the sport, and that's why a lot of people are there really.

Jordan: So, um, yeah, there's a lot of bespoke little bits that we've tried to add in. Um, I will give a shout-out to, uh, Charlton Park. Um, no, the Charlton Park Boys, I can see Stu nodding. Um, they [00:09:00] were one of the original 16 teams, um, and they haven't missed a year in 10 years. Um, and to be honest with you, they pretty much invented the naked run on that first year.

Jordan: Um, and it was, uh, it was one of those where the event was so small, um, I remember going home for a shower about, you know, 7:00 at night, where I don't leave the site these days really just in case. Um, but no, I went home for a shower about 7:00, turned up, um, and all of a sudden I'm at the top of the site, I've just pulled in, and I was like, "Okay, there's at least 20 people there running around the pitch naked, and I got no idea why."

Jordan: Um, so to be fair, they are they're a very, very big part of our family and our, our experiences really. I, I would imagine, before you even ask the question, I'll save you the embarrassment, uh, this year I'd imagine there'd probably be about 250 to 300 people [00:10:00] running naked up and down the pitch It's a fair sight, like 

Carl: A- and that pretty much is, is rugby all in a, all in one situation.

Carl: Like, you wouldn't find that at many other events, just random naked running round a field. 

Jordan: Yeah. 

Carl: That amount of people. It would, um... Especially in this day and age, there's a, there's a l- there's a lot of, uh, easily offended people, so- 

Jordan: Yeah ... it's- No, I th- I think it, I... Yeah, I think people have taken to it quite well really, as in obviously a lot of people wonder what the hell's going on, but then by y- by u- by the second year when a team comes back they've got to have a nominated naked runner so, uh, they, they do buy into it all right, I think.

Carl: Brilliant. So Stu, obviously you've, you've, you now sort of become part of the pillar of, of Heart of Wales 7. How did that all start with the Flaming Unicorns? Was it there or had you already been previously and then it sort of tied into that? Or how did you, how did you get into it? 

Stu: So I'd, I'd never been before.

Stu: One of my jobs used to [00:11:00] take me out Jordan's way all the time, and I'd driven past it almost every year and thought, "Oh, that'd be a good crack one year." Um, and then I think randomly through lockdown, Jordan did a, a Horace lads quiz, and I was invited to it 'cause I had raised a bit of money through, through it, and we just got chatting and Jordan said, "Oh, if you fancy it we'll sort something out."

Stu: And then we turned up the first year not knowing what to expect, and it was just the best kind of crazy ever. And when, when Jordan says about family, this will be our third year in a row now, and you turn up and it is family. 

Carl: Yeah. 

Stu: You know, with... You don't even get through the gate and there's half a dozen people coming up and giving you cuddles, and everywhere you go people now know the Flaming Unicorns, and it's just, it's brilliant.

Stu: And talking of the Charlton Park lads, I was out in Magaluf last month for the, uh, for the beach rugby, and tap on my shoulder at the opening night party, and it was, uh, it was one of the [00:12:00] guys from Charlton Park- ... that, that recognized me. And, uh, we had a cracking weekend. So it, again, it's, it's just all about that rugby family.

Stu: And anybody listening or watching this that is on the fence whether to go or not, I definitely don't take part in the naked run, so- 

Carl: Get your tickets now. So obviously the Flaming Unicorns, we've discussed it previously on the, on the sort of the channel with other bits. For, for those that aren't fully au fait with it, what, what was the...

Carl: I know the, the non-PC version of the, the starting of the, the Flaming Unicorns, but there's, there's also the under- underlying meaning of the Tough Enough to Care situation. Can you explain that for everyone, Stu? 

Stu: Yeah, so brief overview for the, for the charity. We set up seven years ago. Um, I lost two friends to suicide in the space of a week and- I was a, I was a product of a male-dominated environment.

Stu: I'd grown up down rugby clubs, been in the military, done engineering, so I was that man up, [00:13:00] macho, manly man, mental health doesn't exist. And that's... And Tough Enough got set up. Few years after we'd set up, we thought, "Well, most of us are rugby lads, let's stick on a charity match." And then after that, we'd all had a good laugh.

Stu: Most of us had retired or we were semi-retired, and we thought, "Well, why, why can't we do it, not on a regular basis, but more than just once a year?" And that's where the Flaming Unicorns were set up. The PC and non-PC version. The non-PC, I'd had a falling out with someone, and I wanted a charity match. They wanted a charity match against us, and I just wanted to get FU and their name on the scoreboard, so I had to go r-round the houses, flopping umbrellas, floating ukuleles, flaming unicorns.

Stu: And the other version of it is, uh, that we kind of thought, "Well, this is the one," that a flaming unicorn's a mythical creature, and at that point, a man talking about his mental health was as much mythical creature as you could get. [00:14:00] So we stuck with it, and every rugby club that we'd ever approached to go and do a talk at, and for free, we'll come and have a chat with the lads, they were very much against it.

Stu: You know, "We, we don't have mental health here. We're fine." You stick on a gangster unicorn purple and blue shirt, rock up with a bunch of lads that are gonna drink a hell of a lot of piss after the game as well, and all of a sudden we've got waiting lists as long as your arm to go into clubs, and it's all around giving blokes that safe space.

Stu: We've branched off now, we've got the ladies team as well. Because it was so popular for the men's side, we wanna make everybody have... We wanna make it available for everyone to have that space. And we've gone, I think we met you when we were down in Southampton. We've gone to Middle Earth in the heart of Wales and, and everywhere.

Stu: And again, people come up to us, they wanna get involved, they love the kit, they love all the merch, the kids love getting a unicorn bucket hat and all that [00:15:00] stuff. But at the baseline of all of everything we do, it's just making sure people have got an avenue to talk about their mental health. And I think more so now than ever before in sports clubs where it's that outlet for people, it's where they find that support group and that, and that network as well.

Stu: So we just wanna make sure that people can talk. And as much as the Heart of Wales weekend is a party weekend, and it is phenomenal, the amount of conversations we've had in that, in one of Jordan's fields just by him saying, "Come and chuck a ball around, stick out a SuperSocial team as well," and we put the tent up and people will come over and, and open up, and it's the first time they've ever done it.

Stu: So, you know, for... We always say it to Jordan, but again, you know, thank you for giving us that stage to, to support. You know, there's 6,000 people going If one person has a conversation and one person gets that support, then in our mind that's a win. It's, it's brilliant. [00:16:00] 

Carl: Yeah. There's, uh, as we've discussed, there's so m- so much going on in society, and there's fundings being cut everywhere.

Carl: You guys have, have created it as a, as an opportunity for people. It's ... You, you bu- you've built it as a, as a charity to help support people, and Jordan supporting with a platform like that to just even open exposure and awareness to 6,000 people. There's not many charities or situations that you can find a, a viewpoint of that amount of people to start with, but how much did that resonate, resonate with you, Jordan, for, to make that happen when you first sort of heard about the charity, then obviously met Stu, and he's, he's all right bloke, isn't he, to be fair, and you kind of thought, "Right, I've gotta really try and help support this and put this on a platform that it deserves"?

Jordan: Yeah. I th- I think it's like a lot of things, isn't it? It's just that sort of natural progression really where as, as you said, we, we met through Good People, um, at a very tough time, I think. Um, and as he said, he's, he's sort of ... You come along to the, to the [00:17:00] first sessions that Stu come along to, and you, you just, you, you realize quite quickly, you know, these are our people.

Jordan: They, they, you know, they, they are us and, um, you know, as you, as you said, I think, you know, in, in education as well and, and obviously being in those environments myself, you know, I think it's getting a bit tougher and tougher out there at times. Um, you know, I've lost a couple of people now even since, you know, two, two lads since, since Christmas.

Jordan: Um, so you know, it's, it's almost for some people where they, they know it's going on. They ... and sometimes it's in the distance. Um, but I think it does sort of hit home with people- closer home sometimes as well. Um, and then like you said, it, it didn't take long to realize that they were our people and, and, and it just evolves and grows naturally.

Jordan: And, you know, I, I, I'm a big believer in, um, do, doing the right thing a- as it comes along, when it feels right, and, and not forcing things. And I, I, I think that's how the, the, the men's game has, has grown in, in, um, in the, in the, in the sevens. And obviously when we introduced the women's last year was, was good.

Jordan: Um, and[00:18:00] 

Jordan: we give it the same platform as the men's game. Um, and then obviously, again, there's, you know, they're, they're trying to bite my hand off for another one this year, so I'm really looking forward to it, really. So for, for me, I think it's that natural sort of coming together for, for the, you know, for good people and for the right purpose is what it's all about.

Carl: Yeah. 'Cause there's, there's a few superstars that sort of turn up as well. Obviously I've recently just interviewed Josh. Josh Navidi was on the pod. It, so that's, that's now out. That, that come out the other day. But I, I caught up with him there- Yeah ... and he sort of resonated how much it was, like, about giving back to the local community, back to Wales, back to obviously the, the, the mental health charity as well.

Carl: He was like, he just heard about it, and then just turned up. Next thing you know, he's roped into it, and then he's three years deep, and- Yeah ... they're co- coordinating games at Car- at Card- Cardiff Arms Park- Yeah ... and all of these other bits. It's obviously you've got Shane Williams, Andy Powell. There's been a few, there's been a few others.

Carl: Yeah. Some can't drive [00:19:00] any longer because of the back of traveling to Heart of Wales Sevens. But- 

Jordan: Yeah ... 

Carl: when you get there as well, like all the, all the teams, there's a good majority of them are Welsh as well. You kind of feel absorbed within it as well. Like, 'cause there's a lot of issues within Welsh rugby as a, as an international stage and sort of on that.

Carl: But when you go there, you kind of think, "Actually, it's, it's in Wel- it's in very good hands. It's just bubbling under the surface." Do you, do you sort of feel that- And not, not feel part of being sort of keeping Wales Rugby together, but having everyone in that one space to sort of showcase what can be done because the, the rugby on show is phenomenal, and the ringers that Shane brings in, the he does.

Carl: Yeah. He must ha- he must have 'em rats up everywhere. 

Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, there's a, yeah, there's a few bits to all that really, yeah. But I, I think to be honest, Hugh, you know, my, my, my picture was always there used to be a, a sevens tournament called Cwmtawe Sevens down in Pontardawe in, uh, in obviously [00:20:00] South Wales, and, you know, I remember my brothers playing in it.

Jordan: I remember going down with my own man to, to watch it. And, you know, you watch the Fijians play, the army team play, things like that. And y- and, and you have, you haven't had that for a long time at that sort of level. Um, and when we had that opportunity for it to grow beyond your sort of, like, club level, um, you know, your sort of local level tournament, um, you know, it, it was something that's been driving me for the last 10 years really is not, not just the standard but that enjoyment factor.

Jordan: Um, and like I said, you know, we, we've got teams coming from Ireland this year, Scotland as usual, um, we had a team from Holland last year, and I think the, the retention rate that we have is probably in the 75, 80%. So although we do grow, we're not this ... You know, I still teach full time. We're not this big h- hidden multimillion benefactor that's putting all sorts of money into it.

Jordan: It's, it's growing in its own time, and it's, you know, [00:21:00] when, when it's kind of got a piece of the jigsaw, we're adding it, uh, not forcing it. Um, but that retention rate is everything to me because I think, like, as I was still saying, you know, when a team walks through the door, and they come through those gates- And I know 80% of them from last year or the year before or six years ago.

Jordan: They're getting that welcome. Um, but also all the other teams, again, are welcome with each other as well. Um, so, you know, the, the word, the word family to me is, is massive when it comes to it. It's, it's what are we doing to look after everybody this year and add some value? And like you said, from, from that Welsh experience, um, you know, the, uh, w- we have obviously got to

Jordan: that point now where, you know, we, we're, size-wise, we're obviously a lot bigger than the other service tournaments in Wales, uh, which are a lot more local and things. And, you know, we, we feel quite proud really of just putting that, us on that platform UK-wide. So yeah, that, that's, that's [00:22:00] a good, good thing.

Jordan: And, and giving everybody a good welcome is obviously massive for us and, uh, you know, it is, it's little things. It's, it's little things like I, I, I'm al- I'm open people tell us about the little tweaks that we, we, we need to make. Um, you know, for in- for instance, we had a year where we jumped from 1,500 people to about 3,000, and we all, we pretty much doubled in a year.

Jordan: Oh, God, you know, wh- when you're, when you're gonna bed Friday night and you've already run out the toilet paper, when you've already ordered thousands of them, it's not a good feeling when you're sending six lads to different villages and different towns to, to try to get it. But again, they know and they trusted us to put things right.

Jordan: Um, and I think that, that means the most to us really, is just knowing the teams are coming back 'cause they really have enjoyed. 

Carl: Yeah, the o- the only thing I could call out was the weather last year. That was, uh, that was pr- pretty wet, to be fair. But as you said though, 1,500 to 3,000, [00:23:00] and then you found out that you didn't have enough toilet roll.

Carl: Mm. That contingency plan, obviously, until, till it happens, like, you don't... Shit literally hits the fan sort of thing. Yeah. But it's a case of how do you now... Obviously, you learnt from that. Do you, do you have stuff on sale and return? Or do you just over-order and have it back stocked for, there's a barn somewhere with just loads of shit roll- Yeah.

Carl: tucked away for the year after? 

Jordan: Yeah, a bit of both. Yeah, a bit of both. Um, yeah, I th- I... To be honest with you, the biggest, um, the biggest learning through sort of all those phases, I suppose, is, you know, just get, just don't skimp on getting good teams of people in. Um, so for instance, we used to do a hell of a lot ourselves, and I probably pushed...

Jordan: Not, not that they didn't want to, but obviously when you get in the thick of it, it's too much, and you, you don't realize until it is too much. And, you know, I, I'd say there was probably one year where, you know, I had to go to a toilet, you know, a portaloo [00:24:00] myself for a good little cry a couple of times.

Jordan: And, uh, you know, you, you genuinely are crying, thinking "Shit, this is fucking overwhelming." Like, this is, this is a bit too much. And not, not that anything necessarily is going that wrong, but you just think, "Fucking hell, this... You know, this is, this is just something I haven't experienced before, plus I am fucking shattered before it's even started."

Jordan: Um, whereas, you know, there's a lot of things we don't skimp on now, you know. And not as if we did massively before, but you- maybe we just didn't have the money for it because we weren't of that scale. Um, like I said, I, I... We can't speak highly enough of our, our medical team as 24 hours all, you know, for five days.

Jordan: But, uh, but yeah, no, it, it is one of those where I think, you know, special mention to obviously Sally, the wife, um, Sam, who has been with us for a good few years, who's, um, Sally's brother, uh, the brother-in-law. You know, we, we... I think we used to take on so much ourselves [00:25:00] that You know, it was, ah, it w- it was just, it was just too much.

Jordan: It w- it was to the point of I can't do that again next year. It's, it's gonna fucking kill one of us. Um, and to be honest, Stu, I would say to the point where even if somebody's saying nice, something nice to you, you're fucking breaking down 'cause you're just shattered. You're just gone. I m- I remember the first time we had some celebrities up, um, or ex, ex, ex sort of pro players, and it was before, it was before the Flaming Unicorns game, and we had Sean Olley, uh, Lee Byrne, Mike Phillips.

Jordan: Uh, I think it was... Yeah, I think that was it maybe. Um, and I remember we, we done a legends lounge, you know. So the idea was is, you know, again, you give somebody value, get a few different tickets. And within the first 30 seconds, Sean Olley, uh, obviously had the mic and he introduced, uh, the boys, and he said, um, "You know, I can see Jordan in the

Jordan: back there, you know. Um, you know, massive credit. I didn't know this existed in Wales," and [00:26:00] blah, blah, blah. I literally turned around, went to the toilet and cried . I... You know, so I would say y- the last couple years I've probably enjoyed them more myself as well just to... Because you know all those potential issues, or 90% potential issues.

Jordan: You've got contingencies, you've got the backups, you've got the right people in the right places. 

Carl: Uh, and then I, I... Obviously Stu, as you, as you saw first-hand from last year for even the e- even the f- the Unicorns game, how many players was there? Like- 

Stu: I think we took 35 with us, and then we set up and throughout the day people were like, "Oh, are you guys playing tonight?

Stu: I... Could I bring my, you know..." I was like, "Mate, if you want a game, bring your boots, we'll get you a run out." And I think at the end when we started drip-feeding players on, there were probably about, between both teams, there was probably about 80 or 90 players on the pitch. Yeah. And about six referees as well.

Carl: Yeah. 

Stu: So 

Carl: But obviously to, to coordinate a game like [00:27:00] that, Jordan, and obviously put just such a spectacle on, as you said, the contingencies, they all... When it, when they all fall together and all those teams have all worked out and you've know everything there- And you get to the, the Monday or Tuesday night when everything's sort of done.

Carl: Do you now start think for next year, or s- do you just sit down and you sit and think, "Fuck, it's done"? Like I just need- 

Jordan: Yeah. To be honest, so I, I pro- genuinely, genuinely, and it's only happened the last couple of years, but, uh, sort of planning for next year started probably about two months ago. Um, because you want the trial and error, you wanna sort of try to tap people up, you w- you know, you wanna sort of think about that logistically so you can tease things out and all the rest of it.

Jordan: Um, but to be honest here, when the actual event is done and dusted, I will hopefully get the majority of the cleaning done with the boys and the team about 7:00, 8:00 on a Sunday. I will pick a Chinese up, and [00:28:00] normally my parents are at my house looking after the kids. Um, and obviously me and Sally's had a bit of a, bit of a weekend of it.

Jordan: Try to fall asleep as quick as I can because I'm in work each and fucking 8:00 next morning, on Monday morning. Wow. But, um, but yeah, it i- it is one of those b- it is one of those things where, uh, I'm in a bit of a habit of trying to enjoy the event because, you know, you, you, it's easy to sort of overlook something if you're not on the ball with things.

Jordan: Um, but that, that Monday night is, is... Or the Sunday night even, when you, when you sit down and think, "Right, you know, touch wood, nobody's fucking died. Nobody's fucking done

Jordan: this, nobody's done that. That's happened. I've got one spare toilet roll for tonight for myself." Um, you know, whatever the, whatever the scenario is, you know, when you, when you sort of go away and you think, "Yes, it's, it's done," that's, that is, that is a feeling you can't top, I think. Like, it's, it's a v- it's a, it's a very strange, accomplished [00:29:00] feeling, but you're just sort of happy that everybody's enjoyed, everybody's safe.

Jordan: It's, it's done what it's do- You know, the, the job is there for. Um, and then, yeah, you, you start seeing the messages that week, you start reminiscing, you start having little catch-up calls with people, and, you know, you realize sort of what has happened. You, you realize the impact it's had on people. You realize the m- you know, the money and awareness you've raised.

Jordan: Um, you know, the, the fact that you, you know, you've just had a rugby pitch in Mid Wales with, with a combined, you know, 600 Welsh caps and 12 Lions tours and stuff like that on it. It's j- it's just surreal, really, like. 

Carl: What, what's on the Chinese order? What do you normally order after? What's... Is there, is there a go-to, or do you just, just shout numbers and just hope you pick it up 

Jordan: and just, uh- Yeah, it's bas- it's, it's basically give them, give them the menu and just say, "One of everything, mate.

Jordan: Go for it," yeah. 

Stu: I should've put my mortgage on you saying Chinese- ... 'cause every year we give you a cuddle on the Sunday as we leave. Oh. And you've just got that beaming [00:30:00] smile. "Can't wait for a Chinese tonight." Oh, no. Every 

Jordan: year. It's... You know what? We work, we work so bloody hard on a Sunday to start packing things down and fucking tidying the place.

Jordan: Oh, it's mental. Our Chinese is something else, like. 

Carl: Is that, has that become, like, a bit of a tradition now, that it's Chinese? Or do you just love a Chinese that 

Jordan: much? Yeah. No, I, I... To be honest, I think it's quick and easy, and, uh, yeah, the k- the missus loves it. Kids of that age, they love it. My parents love it.

Jordan: Um, but no, the, the, the go-to during the week is, uh, is a full English, mate. Full, full cooked breakfast, I gotta get it in for the boys. Gotta keep them refueled, so, uh, I, um, I d- I dread my bill from the local cafe more than anything on Monday, I think. 

Stu: Can we, uh, can we get that tiny little bit there clipped that Jordan prefers English?

Jordan: Oh, 

Carl: 100. I'll take that. 

Jordan: That's- 

Carl: Full breakfast. So before, before the event then, how, how much... How, when does it all start? Is it, have you got enough time to do it over a period of time, or is it a case of, right, bang, we got to get it [00:31:00] d- in and out and done in a week? Is, or is there- 

Jordan: Um, yeah, so I'm, like, I'm, I'm sort of...

Jordan: Again, I, I always count myself lucky, you know. I've, I've coached in the, in Llanidloes Rugby Club for a combined nine years over the last, sort of since I've been here. Um, so I, I moved up in 2010. Um, I, I'm from Neath originally. Um, but, uh, yeah, so I've coached in the rugby club. My, my boys are playing in the rugby club.

Jordan: Obviously I work in the local school. I'm, you know, out and, out and about in the local community with a fair bit, so it's, um- You know, we, we've, we've got a good relationship with a lot of, you know, sponsors, businesses, the, the committees, clubs, and other groups and things, which is, which is brill. And then we've got a bit of a, bit of a two-week window really.

Jordan: So the, we just sort of work inwards really. So, you know, you start talking Monday, Tuesday, we'll have the big marquee, the big, uh, the big tops will go up. You know, the generators, the electric, um, all that type of stuff will get sorted. Then probably Wednesday, you're looking at the glamping site. [00:32:00] The glamping site will, will take shape.

Jordan: Then we make everything pretty then, sort of inwards. So we get this, the Flamingo Bingo stuff set up. Um, for my, for my own sanity, we'll make sure that we've obviously got the hockey stuff in a pile, the netball stuff in a pile, so we know that we can just grab and go. Um- And then, uh, yeah, Wed- Wednesday's always a funny one though, 'cause it's sort of like you s- you send the boys home, you know, I, I...

Jordan: Then I'll have a nice little hour there. The outdoor stage will arrive late Wednesday night. Um, and then obviously the music guys will turn up Thursday morning. Um, yeah, and it, it just sort of, it just goes step by step really as the site builds. Um, I do try to do my little, uh, little infamous, uh, video updates where I, um, it's, it's literally me with my phone about two inches from my face just saying, "Hello, it's Jordan," and, uh, you know, just showing around the site and giving little updates.

Jordan: But I think, you know, all that, all that build-up is, is such an exciting week and, um, you know, the amount of people that [00:33:00] offer to come down for an hour or they wanna pick their tickets up early just to ease the traffic on the, on the gate or, you know, uh, what, what, you know, local businesses offering a couple of hours work.

Jordan: You know, whatever it is, that, that week is, is such a good week. It's such a good build-up and, and, and again, the atmosphere starts there really. It's, um... No, I, I count myself very, really grateful for the people involved. 

Carl: It, it's quite impressive once it all comes together and as you say, then it's all, it all ticks together.

Carl: So

Carl: this year we've obviously h- seen that Shane's, Shane Williams has pulled out. James, James Hook- Yeah ... is, uh, one, one of the, one of the ringers. Uh, when I was speaking to Josh Stu, he said that he's already texting a few to try and hopefully top up the pot. Is there, has there been any movement on that? Have we got any Fijians turning up just to sort of bolster, bolster the- Uh-

Carl: bolster the ranks? 

Stu: The last I heard, I think Nico got about 17 different people asking him to come along. [00:34:00] Um, so if you ever, if you ever play for the Unicorns or against the Unicorns and go, "I'd love a run out sometime," careful who you say it to- ... and what group chat you're in- Yeah ... 'cause everyone's like, "Yeah, do you fancy a game?"

Carl: Yeah. 

Stu: Um, I've, I've asked him and a few other lads to get their little black books out just to try and, trying to put, put something out there. But, you know, when you got the likes of big Alex Love, big Alex Harrison coming out, you know, Carl, you're putting your boots on, mate. You know, I might even have a token 30 seconds at the end.

Stu: To be fair, just by putting that out there, Shane's probably just hung his boots up straight away. Yeah, retired. Retired straight 

Carl: away. But

Carl: no, it's, it's just amazing to be out, 'cause I... It was quite surreal 'cause- I was obviously turned up, drove up, turned up, got- played the game. Then I was obviously chatting with Andy Powell. I was playing... I was chatting with, with Shane Williams. Then the Lions game was on the next morning, and I was sat watching a Lions game with Shane Williams, which was just, just mental.

Carl: Yeah. Like, just m- some people pay an absolute [00:35:00] fortune to do that. I was sat on a park bench in the rain watching a Lions game that kept glitching 'cause Jordan can't get proper internet in the middle of 

Jordan: Wales. 

Carl: But those are... those, those moments must m- when you s- when people come away and say f- that, "Jordan, oh, I met, I met my idol," or, "I met this," or, "I met this player.

Carl: I met..." They, they just... It just seems to tie together. Like- Mm ... that must make all of the whole effort of inviting those peoples down, 'cause the last thing you want is an ex-pro or one of them that turns up and everyone comes away and says, "What a fucking knob." 

Jordan: Mm. '

Carl: Cause it, it does happen at other events, but- 

Jordan: Yeah

Carl: but that just seems to not happen in, at those events when people just like, yeah, just sit, chat, and it j- it just carries on, and it... That must make it so much easier for you to invite those sort of people along. 

Jordan: Yeah, and I th- I think it was, it was sort of... It was, it was quite hard to get the first one, and then once we got sort of Mike Phillips over the line with, with Sean Olley and stuff, I think, you know, you, you...

Jordan: Again, like you said earlier, you b- you build a bit of a relationship with them, and, and they know who's who and what's [00:36:00] what and who will be good value and, and things like that. And yeah, I'm, I'm just so glad it's grown, to be honest with you, on that side of things because obviously with the women's, with the women's game now on that, on that Friday night, uh, you know, we had Rachel Taylor last year, who is, um, you know, an ex-Welsh captain, player, b- barbarian, absolute legend.

Jordan: Um, and then she brought probably o- you know, only, only about 800 caps worth of, of women's talent with her. Um, and then this year now has just been, um... again, gone on over to Jenny Trickle and, uh, Elin Evans who have got 160 or 170 caps between them. So it, it's, it's good to see personally, like sort of them seeing the value in it and them seeing an outlet in it as well.

Jordan: And you know, that, that Friday night is just... Is, is... Talk about surreal. You know, you, you've got the w- the w- the women's game is, is just ep- Last year I was just so... Not that I wasn't expecting not to be blown away, but it was just that exhibition-style rugby, and it was, [00:37:00] it was just epic. It was unreal. And then obviously we got the, the, um, air drop, the parachute drop at 7:00, and then obviously followed by the men's game as well.

Jordan: And I think, um- You know, it's, it's an ad- it's an adult event, and I think we've played around with things in the early days about trying to get things down there for kids in the day and all that type of stuff. The, the way that we've grown now, you, you c- you know, you can't sort of move away too far away from the 18 plus.

Jordan: But we do have a, we do have a cutoff at 9:00. So we do allow... You know, kids are free. Chil- children can come down with their families, with their, with their parents and, and everybody else, and w- and we encourage that. Obviously have a bit of, bit of sense around a few drunkens, but there's n- you know, there's nothing too serious like that really and, and it's all done in good spirit.

Jordan: Um, so to see them sort of, you know, really clinging to that 9:00 deadline because they wanna wait until the end of the game to get their rugby ball signed, to get their vest signed, to get their jersey signed, all that type of thing. You know, the, the, the couple of messages I have after it and it's sort of like, [00:38:00] you know, you know, "My, my 10-year-old has just got his ball signed by Shane Williams."

Jordan: And, but, you know, it, it's, it's, it's surreal, like it's surreal. But, um, no, in, in general, like you said, the, those little anecdotes, those little, little comments, those little memories, those little things that, you know, they will, they'll just keep 'em forever. You, you know, you won't have that moment again with Shane, will you, at, at that given time there and then doing that.

Jordan: Um, and I, I knew we were onto something after about year, year four I think it was, and I, I knew we, I knew we'd cracked the whole male, female and we'd had the balance and we were starting to grow 'cause, uh, I had a phone call from one of the local shops and they said, uh, "Bloody hell, John, why didn't you tell us this event was on?"

Jordan: And I was, I, I was, I was thinking, "Bloody hell, I'm having a row. You... What, what have I done?" Well, by Saturday afternoon we'd r- we'd run out of toilet roll, paracetamol, and condoms. And, uh, yeah, you know, [00:39:00] it, it's those little memories, it's those little, those little things that people just sort of, you know, randomly, you know, randomly two years, four years, six years down the line and they just say, "God, I remember that."

Jordan: And you just think, "Yeah, it was bloody funny." Like, it was good.

Jordan: Hmm.

Jordan: Yeah, I, I think, I, I think there's dreaming and then there's realistic, and you've got to follow a full spectrum in between, don't you? Um, I think the, the difficult thing for us if, if we're talking seriously, I think we're, we're, we're difficult where we are with sort of things like the distance and accommodation is a massive one.

Jordan: Um, you know, there's n- the nearest airport is 45 minutes away, but they can only fly sort of, [00:40:00] you know, little, little, little things. Um, and then you're two hours... And this is why I say we're perfectly neutral 'cause we are two hours from Cardiff, two hours from Carmarthen, all the border, Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool.

Jordan: Um, so I, I think realistically, I think, you know, we, we can't throw £50,000 at Facebook ads and try to grow by 5,000 overnight. Um, I think for us it is, it is our word of mouth. It is just doing a good job. Um, and it is just val- you know, adding that value and experience, um, and, and focusing on our retention rate and, and hopefully keep doing what we're doing well and tweak the other bits really.

Jordan: Um, I think we, you know, when you, when you look at it, obviously you've got Bournemouth 7s, which is a different animal in itself. Uh, 30,000 people. You know, I, I've spoken to Dodge a few times and he's, you know, he's, he's, he's a great guy. Um, and, um, you know, we're, we're probably in that second to fourth bracket in terms of size around the UK in terms [00:41:00] of other events that are between sort of five and 10 and, and sort of fluctuating or stalling.

Jordan: Um, but, um, no, I, I, I, I think there's growth there to be had. Um, but, but there's no rush. I, I, I think I'm conscious I'm in it for the long haul. Um, and I think people involved are in it for the long haul. Um, you know, there, there's options that we could You know, just sort of take a few more farms on and hire a few more fields and everything else hopefully, and, and just grow naturally, which would be, um, which would be nice.

Jordan: I, 

Carl: I think that's quite crucial for events as well. A lot of events sort of try to outgrow the organic stage. For you to say that you've done 11 years, you've learnt the hard way, you've run out of bog- bog roll, you've, you've managed to find enough of it to save the- the- Like, they're, they're, they're the bits that events that throw a lot of money at and hope that they can grow from, [00:42:00] as you said, the 50 grand's worth of Facebook ads, they wouldn't have enough bog roll.

Carl: They wouldn't have all those other bits. They wouldn't have the team that you've built. So i- it only adds together because as you said, your retention rate, Stu, co- in the, in the, in the WhatsApp group constantly in the build-up to it is Heart of Wales 7s. It's like, it's like a countdown. People want to come back, and you can't, you can't get that from a new event that gets shut down every other year and comes back with a different name.

Carl: So- Yeah ... massive kudos for that, and to, to grow that. But as you said, you, the location's difficult for international teams 'cause they want- Mm ... a hotel next door, and they're not gonna build a hotel next door to your, to your rugby club just for Heart of Wales 7s- No ... unless you get some Saudi money and nobody - 

Jordan: Yeah

Carl: nothing comes in from. 

Jordan: Yeah, like I say, we, like we've, um, just as a side note really, we, we launched, uh, five years ago something called the Welsh 7s Series. Um, so that was essentially, again, just lis- [00:43:00] listening to teams, listening to what they want. Um, and it was the, the sort of two or three elite Welsh teams, if you will.

Jordan: So, you know, back, back in the time, just sort of shout out to Preseli Barbarians, Carmarthen Warriors, um, you know, sort of who've b- again, been with us since the very, very early days. You know, they, they, they don't really want the super social, and they, they're good boys. They'll stay there all weekend and drink and things, but when it's rugby, they want the, the high-level rugby.

Jordan: So- Top 

Carl: tier ... 

Jordan: what we've done with the Welsh Sevens Series is we've got, um, one, the first round was actually last weekend, so that was down in West Wales. Then we've got round two, which is, uh, central South Wales, so we'll be in Torfaen this year. Um, so we've gone Carmarthen round one, Torfaen round two, and then we've got round three, um, which obviously comes back then, and, and the big finals then at the heart of Wales.

Jordan: So, you know, something like that, we've gone from worrying about losing two or three elite teams because the competition isn't there, to [00:44:00] almost trying to give them what they want. They're round, three rounds, 5,000 pound prize money, uh, video recording the, the g- their games with commentary and, and giving them the full experience.

Jordan: Uh, where this year now we've got 12 elite teams who are, um, yeah, apart from Remy, which is the, obviously the, the military team, you know, we've got 11 elite men's teams that are, that are competing. Now that, again, talking about what you would've wished for a few years ago, um, I remember the year one of the Welsh Sevens Series where we had six teams, and we were begging anybody to play, and it was sort of a bit of a tough sort of nut to crack really.

Jordan: Um, but again, that's, that's been organic. That's grown slowly. It, it's got a pathway in place. Um, and now we've got, you know, we've got three new teams this year that have cropped up from different parts of Wales, and they're, you know, they're straight in on the, the full series. So for me it, it's listening, having those [00:45:00] relationships, hopefully being open so people know that they can, they can throw some ideas your way, um, and, and sort of grow there really.

Jordan: So, you know, the, for me, it's not that one event. It's, it's adding back to the whole sort of experience as much as we can in Wales really, um, because the, the, the one event that we've just done now, we had 95 teams, um, and 85 teams of them were under 16 boys and girls, uh, down to under 10s. You know, they, they need to have that.

Jordan: They need a funnel. They, there's a demand there for it, Rick, for a professional event on that scale. Um, so yeah, we, we, we're just sort of growing as, as people talk to us and have a listen to what they want, and hopefully put something in place, which is, which is what it's all about really. Yeah. 

Carl: Yeah. Th- that, that's, that's amazing.

Carl: I didn't even know about that. Uh, obviously the... But Sevens seems to be A lot of people, you love it or hate ... I'm [00:46:00] not built for sevens. Stu's not built for sevens.

Carl: Like- How dare you? We're ... I'm not built, but I, I still, I'm fully on board and think that it's the easiest way to bring people into the game and engage people if it's, if it's dealt with properly. When you said about the, obviously your recording, your commentary, et cetera, et cetera- Mm ... how, how have you, how have you found that being

Carl: Is it, is that sort of as ... Have you had much of an uplift? Because sevens seems to be a really hard product to, to sell or view for, like obviously TNT pulled out of the World Series. That's now on RugbyPass, which is free. Everyone that seems to want to try and push the game forward seems to struggle to sell the product that I think could change the way we see the game.

Carl: How have you found it bec- i- or has it become easier because it's local teams, local production, local situations? 

Jordan: Yeah. I, I th- I think it's sort of ... Well, [00:47:00] again, may- maybe a bit personal, but obviously, I, like you said, I, I still teach full time. You know, my, my mortgage is on my job, do you know what I mean? I, I've got that security, touch wood, that I can

Jordan: You know, me and the wife, we both teach in the same school, so you know, we, we've got our security where, you know, if I was, you know, if, if, if the sevens was to go kablamo tomorrow and, and we could, you know, we, we could go to zero and that's, it never happens again, we, we'd sort of carry on. Um, whereas I think a lot of businesses obviously will have to really look at how they, um, sell that product, but they will sort of go all in or bust.

Jordan: Where, as we've mentioned, 'cause we're doing it incrementally, when we're adding things, it's almost like a low stakes decision. Even though it's costing us a lot of money, it's low stakes because I know that money's there to be given, and it, yeah, and that'd just be used to add value. Um, so like if you look at the Vidduen this year now, for the Welsh Seven [00:48:00] Series, I've always called that the nonprofit part of the business.

Jordan: Okay. So although all the o- the other two events down South Wales, all that money will go back into prize money, it will go into the experience, it will go into the communication, it will go into having, um, a good refereeing team, it will go into, you know, proper good m- you know, over the top medical care for a junior tournament type thing.

Jordan: Um, so something like the Vidduen for me is the added value that because the Seven Series has been going so well and we've got new teams, I'm not pocketing that and going to Barbados. I'm putting that back in. Um, so I, I think that is where maybe, you know, you, you listen to Bulmer Evans with, with Dodge and he talks about how he remortgaged early on in the, in his career to, to get it off the ground.

Jordan: Now I know it was a different era, a different time sort of, you know, 25 years ago. Um, but we have had to [00:49:00] go that route and, and do that. Um- So I think for us, the product is for the people at the moment. It's not about getting new people, it's about servicing and having a really good product for the people that are already involved.

Jordan: Keep that retention rate, and then the base grows naturally. Um, like one, one thing for instance now is talking about planning for next year. W- I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm speculating in my head about maybe trying to introduce like a big boy 10s, um, simply because about four years ago maybe, uh, we introduced women's 10s.

Jordan: Um, and like you were saying earlier, the ... even though it can be quite niche for the sevens, um, obviously introducing the 10s, that, that just took off. Um, so this year we've actually got 16 teams. It's the first competition that sold out was the women's 10s, and it's [00:50:00] probably just because it's a bit more social, a bit more inclusive, oppositions and, and, and everything else.

Jordan: So again, we, we just ... You know, and I, I always remember 'cause we, I put a poll out on Facebook and we had something like 400 replies, which was quite high for back, you know, back then for me. Um, we had about 400 replies and it was something like 75% do not introduce women's 10s. Keep it to sevens. You know, luckily I just listened to the people that were talking and the demand that we was coming in.

Jordan: Um, yeah, it, it, it hasn't looked back really. It's one of the first ones that sells out most years really, but, um, this year it sold out double quick, which is, which is good. So yeah, if we could duplicate that into sort of a big boy 10s, then you're opening up another group of blokes that might just wanna get a- get away for the weekend.

Carl: Yeah. So, so there's, there's an event here in Spain, so it happened just the weekend just gone. I wasn't able to go, but it's called Fat Rugby. 

Jordan: Okay, yeah. 

Carl: So it is perfect, right? So the unicorns, obviously we ... I've already ... Stu, this is already there. [00:51:00] So- 

Stu: Mate, that is definitely where I'll park my car ... 

Carl: right. So it's, it's eight players, so it's e- it's eight a side, right?

Carl: But all of ... You can't be under 90 kilos. You have to be 90 kilos or above to play. Everyone has to go in a scrum. So if you go into the scrum, all eight players go in, the ref feeds it in, and then the, the eight has to pick it up and pull away while one of the flankers comes away with them. So like, it, it just-

Carl: it's chaos. Like, so e- if it's a scrum, all, all, everyone's in. Everyone's in, the ref feeds it in, and then you have to like play on. But like yeah, it looks banging, mate. I, I, I think- Music festival weekend. Yeah. Unreal. 

Jordan: I th- I think it could take off, I reckon. I reckon we could get after it, yeah. 

Stu: I reckon we give it a crack at that this year on a Friday night.

Carl: Yeah, yeah. Eight, it's eight a side, and I think they only paid 35 euros for the whole weekend, a- all their booze included, all food Music festival, camping, the whole lot Uh, you c- you c- Like crazy ... 

Jordan: right, well, you can get rid of that. I can see why you've moved lockdown now. [00:52:00] 

Carl: But yeah, no, that was just unreal.

Carl: Like, I was thinking th- this needs to creep across to- 

Jordan: Yeah ... 

Carl: to England. So that's- I, 

Stu: you've, you've gotta sign me up for next year before that goes bankrupt. Yeah. I've gotta try that. 

Carl: We'll have to get a Unicorns team in there, 100%. Um, Stu, obviously this year, big focus again on the game. Obviously two sides going out.

Carl: What's, what's the main message you guys wanna keep relaying back to everyone? Obviously, uh, the, the main focus of this episode's been on the Hartwall Sevens and, and part of it, but the Unicorns obviously got a big part of my heart, and obviously everyone else that comes part of it. It's just where and what is the vision for the Unicorns?

Carl: Is it a g- a continual growth as well? 'Cause obviously Alex is part of the team now, and you sort of do it full time, and changing lives, mate. It's just they kinda go unnoticed. 

Stu: We go where we're asked. Mm. You know, we, we've gone kind of past the point of approaching clubs now. We're trying to work through the backlog of clubs that want us to go there.

Stu: [00:53:00] It was a fundraising team. That's what it was. The Unicorns was to raise money so Tough Enough To Care could go and do the work. That's what we set out at. And it w- the question was, "Are we gonna sell enough merch at that place?" 'Cause it's quite a small club. And, and, and I'll, uh, you know, I'm always honest to people.

Stu: Just like Jordan's developed and evolved with the, the Sevens, we've done that with the Unicorns, and it's no longer a how much are we gonna make there? Are we gonna get a good enough footfall there? It's do you know what, if there is that one club that's got a, a car park the size of a postage stamp, that there might be three men and his dog watching the match.

Stu: If they're desperate for us to go there, then there's a reason they're asking for us to go there. It's not 'cause they're gonna make 10 grand over the bar. Th- there's, there's a genuine reason. So I think- Where we used to want to go was world domination, get us on the world stage, and that's not it. We wanna go to the places that [00:54:00] genuinely need these conversations.

Stu: And with my charity hat, with the, the Tough Enough hat on now, so many times people will act out. They'll act in a way that people- they want people to ask if they're okay, 'cause they don't know how to reach out for help. And I'd like to think that the way The Unicorns is going, we can go to those places that really need the help but don't know how to ask for the help.

Stu: They can just say, "Can you come and have a charity match?" Knowing full well that with the merch, with the crazy stash, we're also bringing the message of today is the safe space. Even if you don't feel safe any other weekend of the year down this club, today, this weekend, is the safe space to have that conversation.

Stu: And, and that's what we want, and off the back of that we always say to anybody, "If you've played with or against The Unicorns, you're an honorary Unicorn." So it's to kinda leave that legacy at the club. Um, we'll leave all the merch, [00:55:00] and the biggest thing, me and Alex leave our contact details, so a couple of people at that club can just go, "I know where I can send someone now, 'cause before I didn't know."

Stu: Um, and so in terms of where we wanna get to, we wanna, just like Loose Heads and other people like that, aim and focus at these rugby clubs. Uh, sports clubs in general, but mainly rugby clubs, 'cause I think that's where the, the man up attitude has been left to, to grow unchallenged for so many years. We just want to become that Not the household name, not the go-to name, but one of the names that people go, "If you're struggling, mate, there is someone there for you.

Stu: You, you're never alone." And to also create a, a culture in the club that you don't have to reach out to someone else. You've got that group within the club. You've got your band of brothers. You go to war for 80 minutes for each other, kick the living piss out of people for each other on a Saturday, kick the living piss out of [00:56:00] each other on a Thursday, like within your own team.

Stu: Why can't you reach out to someone and say, "I could do with a chat"? And, and that's what we wanna get to. We wanna get to people just being able to open up and just be honest with each other and say, "I'm not in the best place right now." And there's no judgment there, there's no fear of judgment or stigma, and they can just have a chat.

Stu: And like I said before, that's what I love about the Heart of Wales weekend. It is 99.9% party. Everybody is there to have a good time, and everyone does have a good time. But on the occasions where someone's not been having the best time, for us to have the opportunity to be there for them. They haven't gotta go and sit in the tent and wait it out for 48 hours before they get their lift home.

Stu: They haven't gotta get picked up the next day 'cause they're just not feeling it. They come over to the big massive 12-foot huge purple unicorn marquee and just pull one of us aside and go, "I could do with a chat." [00:57:00] And we're there. We're, we, we're there available on site, not as counselors, not as psychiatrists, just as someone that just gets it, and they can have that chat and just then go on to enjoy the weekend 

Carl: And then they usually walk away with a unicorn bucket hat and everything's all good.

Stu: Okay. No one ever buys flip-flops though. 

Carl: I was g- I was just about to say, how, how many flip-flops have we still got to sell? Like, off the back of this- Oh ... we might have 

Jordan: I, I haven't got a desk- Nice ... I haven't got a desk bit, I'm j- I've just got stacks of flip-flop boxes. 

Stu: I'm actually sat on a box of flip-flops right 

Carl: now.

Carl: Oh, gents, it's been an absolute honor to, to get you on. Obviously we'll be, we'll be up there. We've got a little proposition for Jordan after this episode anyway, so we'll, uh, we'll, we'll chat that offline before we throw this onto YouTube. Uh, gents, for anyone that's still on the fence, one last little message from our, both of you separately, however you want, and then I'll do the little outro and- 

Jordan: Yeah, no, thanks for having us [00:58:00] on.

Jordan: Yeah, no, it's good, it's good. Like I said, I think, uh, hopefully we're doing the, the right things with the right people and, uh, you know, it's not, uh... You can't go far wrong if you've got the right people involved, can you? So, uh, that's, it's all positive for me. It's good. 

Stu: The Heart of Wales 7s is by far the best weekend-

Stu: in the rugby calendar, the social calendar, the family calendar. Honestly, it is just from start to finish, family fun and rugby. It's, yeah, it's amazing, so get there. And do you know what? If you don't like it, you don't have to come back, but give it a chance. 

Carl: But Jordan will batter you with emails to keep you on that retention rate.

Carl: So anyone- He 

Jordan: said that's right, that's right, yeah. 

Carl: Everyone, uh, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you enjoyed this one. If you haven't got your tickets, make sure you get to this one. If you can't get to this one, get to the next one. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining [00:59:00] us.