Rugby TTL - Series 2 - Episode 23 - Finlay Harrison - Youngest International DOR

Building Hungarian Rugby: An Interview with Finley Harrison

In this engaging episode of Rugby Through the Leagues podcast, we sit down with Finley Harrison, the 21-year-old head coach and director of rugby for the Hungarian national team. Finley shares his fascinating journey from a young player who transitioned into coaching due to injury, to becoming one of the youngest head coaches in international rugby. We discuss the challenges and opportunities in Hungarian rugby, the growth of the sport in the country, and Finley's ambitious plans to take Hungarian rugby to new heights. Don't miss out on this inspiring conversation that highlights passion, perseverance, and the potential of Hungarian rugby.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:17 Meet Finley Harrison: The Young Head Coach
01:18 Finley's Journey to Coaching
03:19 Challenges and Achievements in Hungarian Rugby
04:26 Cultural Integration and Language Barriers
06:01 Growing Rugby in Hungary
08:12 Pathways and Development in Hungarian Rugby
09:53 The Role of Analysis and Technology
12:40 Club Loyalty and National Team Dynamics
17:47 Coaching and Development Pathways
26:09 Future Goals and Aspirations
31:46 Adapting to Hungarian Rugby
32:21 Building a Transition Game
35:38 Embracing Vulnerability as a Coach
37:07 Non-Negotiable Standards
38:47 Changing Public Perception
46:12 Balancing Sevens and Fifteens
50:49 Challenges and Ambitions
57:34 Final Thoughts and Call to Action

Transcript

Finlay: [00:00:00] Hungarian Rugby. I will say it now. It's, it's about 10 years away from being absolutely massive. 

Carl: Hello and welcome to another episode of Rugby Through the League's podcast. Just wanted to say thank you to everyone that's been following. I know it's been a little while since the last episode, but we've got a great one lined up.

Carl: This one's been in the planning for a little while, but we finally managed to get a date in the diary 'cause the man that sat opposite through the internet. Finley Harrison is pretty busy. Was with Henley. Hawkes, also the youngest head coach of an international side slash DOR slash kitman, whatever he probably ends up having to do of Finley.

Carl: You are obviously part of the Hungarian rugby set up. For those that don't know you, can you just do a little intro and I, I think we've got plenty to get into, mate. I think this is gonna be a great one. 

Finlay: Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. My name's, uh, my name's Finley. I am, uh, the head coach of the, uh, Hungarian national team.

Finlay: I'm also the director of rugby. Kind of, [00:01:00] uh, run two roles. It's, it is a really, really great, uh, job. Uh, yeah, I'm only 21. I got appointed when I just was just turning 21, so I was 20 when I got appointed. Um, and yeah, I'm, I'm one of the keen coaches you'll probably meet, uh, my, my youth comes with a lot of, uh, passion and excitement for roles.

Finlay: Um, but yeah, no, that's, that's a little bit about me. 

Carl: How at 21 did this come about? 

Finlay: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, to be fair, I've been very lucky over, um, my space. So I played rugby until I was 18, and as most coaches, uh, an injury stopped me playing. I, I really badly. Did my shoulder and it's kind of been a, a ongoing problem.

Finlay: And I didn't wanna step away from rugby. I've, I'm so passionate about it. I've been inside Goss's Academy and I just knew that rugby was the environment for me from a very, very young age. And, um, yeah, when I left, when I left having to play, I knew I wanted to get straight into coaching and kind of, uh, one, one role led to another.

Finlay: I was lucky enough to go work at Ipswich School, uh, and work under. People [00:02:00] like Jacob Ford. And then from there I got to do some work at Barry St. Edmonds as well. Um, and then when I moved back, um, home, I'm originally from Oxfordshire, I kind of got in contact with the director of rugby at Henley, Hawkes, Luke Allen went there.

Finlay: And did, uh, analysis, did some skills work, and I met, uh, the old head coach of the Hungarian national team. Tom Redford. And me and Tom are, are very good mates. He's now the head coach of the Lavia, um, seven side and kind of, yeah, we, we met there and he knew that, uh, my background is a lot in Sevens and yeah, from there we kind of took it off, introduced me to.

Finlay: President. And yeah, as I said, I got very lucky with, uh, kind of being in the position I am. And it started from, uh, being the head coach of the sevens. And then after the sevens, uh, season, they moved me into the fifteens and I threw the fifteens and the sevens together at the moment. 

Carl: Yeah, that must be probably the.

Carl: Quickest escalation to get to a, an international head coach role from, uh, 

Finlay: it, it really, it really was obviously lots of different things going on in the background. I've done, I've been very lucky [00:03:00] enough to be mentored by some of the best coaches in the seventh and the fifteens world. But I, I know fully well that I'm very lucky, very privileged to be in the position I am.

Finlay: Um, but I kind of wanna continue to snatch it up. And I'm young, I know I've, I'm not as experienced as other coaches, but what I lack in experience, I always bring. Energy and eagerness to be the best people around. So any Hungarian heritage or was it just No, no, no. Just No, no, no. None at all. And I think that was definitely a hard thing at the start, was trying to resonate with the boys and, um, kind of for me, I spent the first two months, well get into it a little bit, but I wanted to show the boys that.

Finlay: I was trustworthy. You're not gonna earn people's trust off the start. And not being Hungarian obviously came with that language barrier, but also kind of them being like, well, why are you telling me to be passionate about my own country when you're not from there? But kind of, we're at a position now where they understand how much I love this country and kind of how much I've really chucked myself into the whole way of Hungarian life, but also [00:04:00] just, uh, kind of respecting their traditions, their cultures and everything.

Carl: So did you sort of just go and. Balls, deep dive in, go and spend as much time as you physically could there to try and immerse yourself amongst it or, because obviously where, as you said, it was sort of between two roles. Obviously you were part of Henley Hawkes, but have you had to try and. Do as much as you physically can in a sh such a short space of time.

Carl: How has that kind of worked? Yeah, 

Finlay: so when, when I first, when I first got appointed, I was working at the Henley College as well and right. Kind of, I, I got, it, got to the point where when I got appointed, I, I kind of, uh, had a chat with my family and my. Girlfriend and I was like, right. So this isn't a full-time role at the moment.

Finlay: This is just a freelance role. It's kind of see how the seventh season goes. Um, and I decided to quit my role, uh, to go and focus on the rugby and Hungary flew me out, uh, for two weeks and I stayed out in Budapest for two weeks and I got two experience, their 15 side, uh, kind of how the. Run, but I also got [00:05:00] a lot of time to go and see different parts of Hungary.

Finlay: Um, there's obviously, Budapest is probably the most, uh, well known to everybody, but there's so many beautiful different parts of Hungary and being able to go and experience that really helped my role to then when we got into the seventh season. It was a really quick, quick transition. I, I got, uh, fully appointed in around May time, and then June was when the seventh season started.

Finlay: So I had a month to kind of really, uh, get everything sorted, kind of learn the Hungarian way, and, and I would, I would lie if I said it wasn't a challenge, but it's a challenge that I've definitely learned from and it is definitely put me in a situation. Luckily, we are moving into the seven season. 

Carl: To be young as well, to be able to take that opportunity just to 

Finlay: Completely, completely, 

Carl: yeah.

Carl: I'm not going back to work today of, uh, 

Finlay: no, I, I was very lucky. Um, my, my boss at the, uh, Henley College, his name's Josh Barard, he was really supportive. He's a great guy. Um, and he kind of understood that it was the role for me and he [00:06:00] was like, let's just go for it. 

Carl: So when people hear hungry and rugby together, what, 

Finlay: yeah, 

Carl: what should they understand straight away?

Carl: 'cause obviously it's probably not, as we know the game we love, probably not on the top of everyone's list. When they think of Hungary, what's, what should they know and understand from, from when they hear those two together? 

Finlay: Hungarian rugby is a growing sport out there. And I'll touch, I'll touch on the women's a little bit later, but the women's are in an absolutely amazing position.

Finlay: They're, they're really pushing to go into the championship, and that's kind of where it's really over the past year, grown and Hungarian men's rugby has been a thing that's grown since around the seventies and the eighties. They've been lucky enough to get from, they've been ranked in the top 50, um, and kind of over time they've moved down in the fifteens rankings.

Finlay: But as a, as a rugby country, it's not very popular. There's handball out there. There's, um, [00:07:00] football, there's American football's very big out there as well. Uh, as well as, uh, water polo like they're the main sports. And trying to get that as a main sport in Hungary has been a challenge that I'm not the only person to tried facing that.

Finlay: The coaches before, uh, people may know, uh, Richie Williams, a very famous coach in the English, uh, well, he was the Hungarian head coach, uh, two before me. Wow. Um, and he, he really threw himself at the job and tried getting it there. And we've really seen now the influx of the young players from there, kind of moving in, but trying to get at a main sport with.

Finlay: Having a good pathway from under eighteens is a challenge, but it's a challenge that I am so grateful that the people in Hungary are really tackling so well. 

Carl: Well, it sounds like the situation that you inherited was. On the right path rather than you having to rebuild it from the ground up. What's obviously as your sort of head coach, DOR role, what have you now had to sort of embrace from the previous regimes [00:08:00] to, to now bring that next step forward?

Carl: 'cause obviously, as we know in the game, we've gotta keep moving forward by the sounds of it, the women's is on the right path. But what have you added to try and change it to the next level again? 

Finlay: Uh, it's a great question. And when, when I, when I came, kind of came into, uh, the national team, it would just, uh, there'd been a new, uh, board appointed, so a new president and that, and right the, the board before that were very eager, making Hungarian rugby very big.

Finlay: And, um, and I, I genuinely was so grateful for what they did and kind of when I came in, I had to. Still with certain problems that, that, uh, obviously I, I'm not gonna speak about, but being able to make it a sustainable international rugby country in the seven season notice. Some really exciting stuff that's gonna be announced in the next couple of months, uh, from, uh, the first time that the national team, and this is something that got announced today, I managed to get, we've got a sports analysis.

Finlay: Wow. To now being able to have them get, they get kit that they get to keep, they get it, it, I [00:09:00] took it on in a position where Hungarian rugby was ready to go and I kind of had to, over the past year really work hard. Uh, not just me, my, my team manager, Raker, she is absolutely amazing and we've worked so hard together.

Finlay: Find sponsors and be able to kind of get Hungarian rugby to the point it used to be at. 

Carl: Yeah. So obviously being of the younger generation, shall we say? I'm saying that yeah. From being 35, but. What, what's, Scott, have you sort of focused more on the availability of sort of AI analysis, stuff like that to try and reduce the amount of costs to make that sustainable?

Carl: Because back in the day you'd probably have to have some send a scout out to watch this. You'd have to try and watch that the, the benefits of YouTube and Instagram and all these other bits that have probably made it a lot easier for you to scout without actually having to go anywhere is that. One of the main ones that you've been able to embrace?

Finlay: One, one thing that I bring as a head coach that I kind of, people are like, well, I've never heard of that, is my specialty. [00:10:00] I, I, I love, I love attacking rugby, but my specialty comes in analysis. So I, I will lead a team, um, and I am in charge of how we play, and I will go and watch the opposition, I'll code the opposition, and that's something I really take pride in in myself.

Finlay: It's what I've done in every single role I've been in. Yeah. Um, and for me it's just been kind of. Finding the players, uh, is, is easy. We, we've got a really, really well connected, um, team and there's obviously new people we have. We're very lucky. A lot of the, we have six or seven people, uh, that Hungarian qualified to play in the national leagues, um, to play from even that two on that one.

Finlay: Uh, we also have, uh, two boys playing over professionally in France. Um, we have two boys that play for the professional team in Switzerland. Um, and the rest of them play either Bucks rugby, super Bucks rugby or play over in Hungary. Um, nice and I'll touch on it a little bit, but kind of Hungarian rugby, I'd always made a promise that I didn't want [00:11:00] to, especially when you go to Rugby Europe, you'll see certain teams will just completely load their team with English boys, which I think is amazing.

Finlay: But I've always promised. The Hungarian lads that I was never gonna cut them out. I think some of them absolutely. Well, all of them are amazing players. Yeah. And they compete at that level. They have consistently, for years, they could go over to England, they could go over to France, they could go wherever they wanted, but they stay in Hungary.

Finlay: And I've always made it a rule that at least half the team has to be from Hungary when I bring them over. Because I just think I find it hard morally if I was then to bring in a whole team of, um, of English players. And I've left people who are playing in the leagues over in Hungary, growing rugby over in Hungary.

Carl: Yeah. 

Finlay: The role models for those younger people leaving them out of the, the trophy series each year. It's just, it's, it's, it's a kind of a, a recipe for disaster. 

Carl: I was really lucky I had the opportunity to go and sort of spend some time with Rugby Club Luxembourg, and most of those lads are part of the Lux Luxembourg side as well.

Carl: So yeah, I had Ja James Kent [00:12:00] on as well, who's their mm-hmm. Sort of their head coach. And he, he said most of the players are now recruited within, which is probably one of the best positions that they've been in because they're, uh, rugby Club Luxembourg, they're playing in the bun. And then you've got, they've got two, I think they've got two other clubs within Luxembourg.

Carl: So for such a small space. They've got some other players that go away. 'cause obviously they've gotta go away for work and stuff like that. But I think when I was speaking to one of the lads, the majority of the squads, 95% of the squad, can pretty much speak Luxemburg or whatever the language is as well.

Carl: Yeah, yeah, 

Finlay: yeah, yeah. 

Carl: With with the lads that have probably gone away, come back. And obviously yourself, is most of, most of it done in English at the minute? 

Finlay: Yeah, I think, uh, obviously parts of it are English and, uh, the one thing I'm really grateful as well is all of the English based players who have never lived in Hungary have made a conscious effort to learn Hungarian.

Finlay: It's one of the hardest languages to learn. That's brilliant. But certain words like, again, which means [00:13:00] yes. And, uh, Nam, which means no, kind of the basic words. And what we, what I like to do is I'll have my team talk for probably a minute. And then I let them speak in their language. And the English boys say as well is they may not be understanding exactly what they're saying, but they can feel it.

Finlay: The Hungarian's, the most passionate human beings I've ever met, and it makes my job so easy. Whenever they put that shirt on, they will, they will dive for their country. And I'll touch on that a little bit later about these two players. The last trophy series that kind of really summed up to me. It was an environment that I wanted to keep being a part of, but we, we let them do their stuff in Hungarian.

Finlay: A lot of the, uh, the speaking on the pitches in Hungarian, obviously when the English lads are playing as well, it's a very, uh, they understand the trigger words of like when to move it. And yeah, it also gives us kind of that advantage if you are playing against English players or you're playing against, uh, countries that don't understand Hungarian.

Finlay: When we have saying certain words in Hungarian, they're actually not able to clock onto what it means. And it, yeah, it's a very small [00:14:00] tactical advantage, but it's, it's a very, it's a very big, it's a very big, big honor to be able to kind of then accept it. I only speak English. They allow the team talk to be spoken in English.

Finlay: There are some people that don't understand English in there. And they'll just listen and then they'll then do the talking In Hungarian, halftime, uh, especially in the fifteens, I'll take a massive step back. I allow them to do their talking. They, they have five minutes of, we call it decompression, where they'll speak about what they wanna speak about in Hungarian.

Finlay: It's their comfort language. It's what they understand. Maybe I'll have a chat with the English players whilst they're having that. Or there'll be a, a Hungarian lad who understands English. You'll be translating at the same time. And we just let them kind of, uh, be, be, be in their country. I, it's a privilege for me to be in this position, so why would I then try and dominate it by speaking English all the time to them?

Carl: Yeah. That's amazing. So obviously we sort of lightly touched on it earlier, but what Yeah. Are the biggest challenges of trying to grow rugby in what is a non-traditional nation? 

Finlay: There [00:15:00] are a couple and, uh, I think the, the, the main one for me is, it's hard to say with, with the pathway it's, it's getting there is, is we, we've seen people like, uh, Zade, for example, Jean Ballade, now both of them are playing professionally in France who have come through.

Finlay: Uh, like the roots and I think Este Gone or a club, uh, they're one of the biggest clubs in Hungary. They get it spot on. They have age groups all the way up. Um, but it's trying to replicate that across consistently around to then be able to bring that pathway. I, I've seen, and after speaking. It seems to be once people get to 16, they decide to take up rugby when they've either stopped football or, um, they've kind of maybe stopped, um, what, whatever sport they were playing.

Finlay: Yeah. Um, but there's so many good transferable skills. Wrestling's also a massive thing over in Hungary. Oh wow. So the ability of, it's one thing that I've found is I haven't had to do much stuff on the, the jacking side of it or on the breakdown side of it, or the tackling side of [00:16:00] it, because it's all ingrained for them when they, when they're young and hungry, they're taught wrestling from pretty much four or five years old.

Finlay: They're very passionate. They love their UFC as well, so nice kind of their, their wrestling and their jacking ability is, is just spawn. It's something that they take pride in and I just, I embrace it. 

Carl: Yeah, that's, that's, that's one of the, probably one of the hardest things. So I, I coach here in Spain as well and 

Finlay: mm-hmm.

Carl: Trying to coach. People that aren't used to physical contact in that to try and make sure you lock over the top of a breakdown or try and make sure you don't get pushed off the ball so easily. That's probably one of the hardest things to try and implement. So if that's their base fundamental and that's their comfort zone, that's the easiest pro, probably easiest bit at the passing bit you can slowly work on and teach, but.

Carl: Just that raw physicality completely is really hard to ingrain into someone that's not used to it 

Finlay: completely. And I think, I think as well, probably the other challenge, and I, I won't lie, I'm not fluent in Hungarian, but I'm trying my best I Duolingo every day. Uh, but um, it is [00:17:00] kind of that, that being able to speak to them is like, I'm message all of my players pretty much all day every day.

Finlay: Just checking in on them, making sure that they're fine and kind of just kind of getting to know them on a, on a personal level as well. And then having to kind of write it in English or to get Google Translate to do it, and then being bits of broken. And that's probably another challenge for me. I'm very lucky that my team manager and the president of the union are all fluent speaking in English, but when it comes to speaking to the players that may not be fluent in English, that's probably where my biggest challenge really does come in as well.

Carl: At least you're trying to. Change it rather than just putting your heels in the ground and saying that's that's it. Like a typical English person would, but just shout and point louder that, uh, that might help. How do you prioritize grassroots versus the elite performance over what is your limited resource?

Carl: As you said, you wanna try and keep 50% roughly of the team from Hungary, which obviously the other lads [00:18:00] that are coming in have probably got. A different level that they play to on a consistent basis. How do you join intertwine that without. A detriment to the, the overall goal. 

Finlay: I'm very lucky with the whole new structure and it's something that I've been very, very proud to kind of that hung Hungarian rugby have done.

Finlay: So for years it's been a Hungarian league where there's 12 teams or 10 teams in the Hungarian League competing, and the same three teams finishing on top, which is Esther Go and HOK and um, Budapest Exiles. And what they had then now done is they've moved them into something called the Extra League, which.

Finlay: Consists of two Austrian teams, one Serbian team and one Slovenian team. I believe. It is so nice. The people that were dominating their leagues as well, and they now don't play in their separate leagues. It's an inter international league. Oh, wow. So, um, it, it is, that's been a massive, massive. A point of talk in, in our kind of, uh, industry is the fact now that they're cha they're being challenged against [00:19:00] people constantly.

Finlay: Austria's fifteens team are exceptional. Yeah. And the fact that ster going Budapest or the folk get, get to go out and play against them is, is helping the players out. The young players is also helping the senior players out. Um, and there's also still a Hungarian League as well. Um, running at the same time.

Finlay: So I, I, I'm not gonna lie, most of my select team selection comes from those three teams. Yeah. Um, but there's, there was obviously, there was one that made their debut against, uh, Serbia who came from, uh, the Hungarian League as well. So there, there's definitely the, the ability to kind of move from a elite to grassroots.

Finlay: But we sat down, we came up with a really, really clear goal that we, we wanna win. Yeah. And I will, if I can pick the best 13 players, or I can pick the best 23 players that I can, I will. And then I'm constantly watching it. I'm very lucky as well that all of the games are filmed over in the leagues, so I, I'm there, I'm watching the games.

Finlay: I think that, I think I've had to tell everybody that [00:20:00] Hungarian rugby people see it as, oh, it's. Not this, it's not that it really is, but the quality is exceptional. I, I know that I could pick up pretty much every single person inside my, uh, fifteens team and definitely every single person in my seventh team and drop me in the national leagues in England.

Finlay: They are all very confident and, uh, competent players. But now the problem that Hungarian rugby is gonna struggle with is being able to then get the next generation of those confident and competent players. Coming over. And that's a challenge that we are, we're tackling head first and it's just, it's, it's a really exciting time and that, that extra, it's called the extra league.

Finlay: It just has made, uh, the quality and the ability of Hungarian rugby or Australian rugby, Serbian rugby just go up completely. 

Carl: Yeah. So it sounds like there's sort of had like a. Super league sort of breakaway Champions league thing. Yeah. Which, but of a benefit for everyone. What's, um, yeah. Yeah. Has there been a bit of a detriment though, because have lads tried to leave other clubs to go and [00:21:00] play in that upper level?

Carl: Have they, is there sort of the. Poaching it, not a poaching element. Obviously we're not allowed to, but like 

Finlay: it's alright 

Carl: that, that, that's, you kind of still, there's still a detriment to that league to be able, 'cause obviously they're classed as the, the big three mm-hmm. Sort of thing. And they Yeah. 

Finlay: And it's something that again, I'm very open and honest about is in Hungary.

Finlay: They are very passionate about their clubs. Yeah. When someone's born in, in, in a club and they grow up in a club, they will not move from that club. They'll stay at that club. Nice. Love that. And it's, it's to the point where something that's changed since me being in the role, which I'm very grateful for, but people used to rather play for their club team than the international team.

Finlay: But that was not for the reason of, they didn't wanna play international rugby. That was the fact that they wanted to make sure their team had enough players to fill in and to play. Right. Yeah. So kind of it's there, there are aspects of those, those better players then do move on to the, the big three, uh, as you may call it.

Finlay: [00:22:00] It's, it's, there is always gonna be that aspect, but also at the same time is people will love and they'll die for their rugby club. And, uh, like the president of the Hungarian Rugby Union is really a tink called Kme. And they are in the, in the Hungarian League and there are boys there that would, uh, they would deploy for their team.

Finlay: And it's just, it's something that really separates Hungarian rugby from. I think every single, uh, rugby club I've ever been a part of is you have that, people call it the brotherhood. They'll die for their team and that, but I, I always challenge 'em to be like, I, I completely agree, but wait until you see what Hungarian rugby is like, and that, that there is a proper brotherhood.

Finlay: They all, they all live together, they all eat together. They all kind of do everything together, and it's, it's, it's amazing. It's, we try and keep it as close as possible. But yeah, sometimes you do get the aspect of people moving on to Esgar and people moving on to Budapest, but at the same time is maybe after three or four years when they've played their best [00:23:00] Years, then they move back to those other clubs.

Carl: So that kind of, it works a good and a bad because obviously they'll be able to take that knowledge and back and help the long-term development Completely. Is is, is that kind of an unintentional. Progression for Hungarian rugby that those players go back to their home clubs to help develop the future talent because obviously you gotta find a way of getting that conveyor belt through of you don't want to keep dipping into.

Carl: Expats or overseas players because you kind of then lose the national identity. There's no growth in that sense as well. And do you want to be able to have players that can have a a home camp? They haven't gotta worry about traveling. They haven't got all these other bits because as we know, the game that we love, rugby gets in its own way of trying to make money.

Carl: And you probably found it really hard to find sponsors to start with. There was obviously. Probably a certain amount of people that are willing to put their hands straight in their pocket because it's their country, but mm-hmm. That conveyor belt will only ever grow if those [00:24:00] players are able to go back.

Carl: And in part, that wisdom of being part of the national side or part of that operation on is that. Kinda one eye that you've got on it. It's obviously not an official party line, but one you are that Yeah. Let's, let's make sure that happens. 

Finlay: Yeah. Yeah. No, completely. And it's not, it's not even just there.

Finlay: It's the players that go off and play in different countries while they come back and nice, like people have, the aspect of Hungarian rugby is. Like 2015 rugby or 2010 rugby, but it's actually, uh, it is, it is 2020, uh, five rugby, 2026 rugby date. They moved the ball well. Um, obviously there's gonna be highly ex over in France and England, but the quality is there.

Finlay: But what I do love is how people always help each other out. And it is kind of a, a case of like, um. I use a player called Moses. He plays for another, uh, he played for one club and he also plays for Este Go. And he is very passionate for both of the clubs. Um, but he is so, he is so smart. He's been inside the national team [00:25:00] and playing club rugby for years and he's always about looking after those younger players, making them better and then bringing him on.

Finlay: And it's the same, I can say for literally every single one of them is it's a very, uh, with pretty much every player, there's one or two that potentially. Don't like the idea of new players coming in, but uh, the rest of them absolutely love the idea of nurturing new players, bringing them on and making them better players.

Finlay: And it's, it is exceptional. It is, again, it's like no other environment I've seen is everyone wants the best for everybody and everyone's like, ah, let's do this, let's do that. I've seen this, let's try this. And it's, it is just exceptional to be a part of. Really. 

Carl: Yeah. It's amazing. So obviously. You've kind of got the, you've got the DOR role, the head coach role.

Carl: You've just obviously announced the analysis. You've got a team manager. Have you got other coaches part of your set up as well or, yeah. And how do you develop other coaches within, is there like a coaching development pathway for. People to make themselves available down the line or to sort of community rugby.

Carl: [00:26:00] 'cause obviously Gibraltar and Greece just obviously just got accepted. 

Finlay: Yeah. 

Carl: They've just announced that obviously now able do rugby Europe coaching courses. Is that, is there a long term vision to develop within Hungary? 'cause obviously, I'm sure they probably love what you are doing, but they. Probably don't want a long term solution.

Carl: They want, they wanna pro promote from within. That's kind of completely, that's the, that's the only way the national identity can, can grow and. Taking top, top class coaches over there to coach 'em is the only way that that'll gather pace as well. 

Finlay: The board have got it spot on. There's, uh, people, uh, I, I have nothing bad to say about anybody inside that country.

Finlay: They are so spot on with coach development first aid. Uh, they do so many other courses, the Rugby Europe ones, uh, the World Rugby ones, um, and there's the refereeing is massive out there as well. The amount of people that leave rugby wanting to be a referee really and the referee qualifications, the pathway is exceptional and it's not a case in hung in rugby.

Finlay: You finish [00:27:00] rugby and you're out. There's so many different routes you can go down. There are coaches that obviously. Been in their roles for a while. Um, but at the same time, like Esther Goman one of the best teams in the, uh, in the country and their head coach Darius is, uh, a young, well, he's not young.

Finlay: He's, he's, I think he's around, uh, between like 20 and 28. Um, he's the head coach. They, they've been at Powerhouse for years. He still plays as well, but he wants to focus on his coaching and it's something that's come within. And for me, kind of using people like that is amazing. And I can't say too much like the, the, the Hungarian Sevens is the priority, especially under me, and it's, is somehow.

Finlay: We've always said, and the goal this year, uh, is to win a medal at one of the competitions, so to finish third or second, or first in one of the competitions. Yeah. And with the players that we have available this year, compared to last year, where we only had 11 players available. And we had to play with 11 players, um, when we were playing in the sevenths to [00:28:00] now having, uh, over 30 people wanting to play for the country.

Finlay: Um, it's, it is a massive pathway and the coaches that I have, uh, that I'm having communications with and we're just waiting for them to sign the dotted lines, it's really exciting, not just for myself, I get to work with some amazing coaches, some amazing players, but also the Hungarian players get to play with people who are.

Finlay: They kind of see us role models inside hungry, but also some familiar faces, hopefully. So I, nice, I get, I'm really excited about, hopefully the coaching team that I have this year makes my job easier. But also I'm very, as I said, I'm very young and I don't, I, I always had this mindset from, well, when I was 18 all the way until I stopped.

Finlay: Coaching is, uh, you'll never stop learning. I, I'm never gonna take control of a whole thing. I'm all about delegating and making sure different player, uh, different players have different roles, but making sure my coaches have something that they can be accountable for. I think, uh, this year I've been like, right.

Finlay: The coaches that I've been speaking to, I be like, what do you want to be in charge of? I wanna get the best out of you [00:29:00] guys. And then I'll then kind of slot myself in where's needed. Yeah. And that's what I feel like is gonna create a high performance team. I've spoken to the players, what do they want from the seven season?

Finlay: And we built our game plan around that. And I think that's what's gonna create our high performance team and our high performance environment because we've got coaches being held accountable and doing something that they enjoy. And we've got players buying into a system as something that they believe in.

Finlay: From the start, and I think that that's what's gonna be able to create that buy-in from the start and hopefully when there's a medal at some point this year. 

Carl: Yeah, it's amazing. Are you got, I'm guessing you guys are gonna do like the rugby Europe seven circuit stuff? Yeah. 

Finlay: Yes. Yeah. So we do, we do the, uh, we do the trophy and, uh, two years ago we finished, uh, they finished.

Finlay: Fourth, which was their highest place. Um, and the girls finished, I think third last year. Nice. Um, so we're, we are definitely there. Uh, last year we did, we didn't have our best year. As I said, we went to Croatia with 11 players. Yeah. Um, and then after the first day we lost two to injury and we were really, uh, backs against the [00:30:00] wolves.

Finlay: And as I said, I kind of had to really, really. Dig deep in those, in that first year of my role. But now being able to, I've sat down, I'm having chats with, uh, the team manager and being like, oh my God, we have 30 players we can pick from, uh, from this tournament. It's just such a nice, a nice thing to be.

Finlay: And then the girls, um, I don't have too much involvement in the girls. They've got it pretty. Pretty locked down and they're, yeah, they're really pushing and I, I genuinely, I look at the quality of them. They could be a championship team easily. 

Carl: Does that come under your role as DOR, or have you It does. It.

Carl: It does, but you've kind of like, it's already been dealt with. I, I, I, I don't want to ruin it. Sort. Yeah. 

Finlay: Yeah. Sort of. I, I kind of, when I, when I got. Appointed it was especially to focus on the men's with the sevens and the fifteens. And when, when I was speaking to the president about when I, when the appointment happened, I didn't want to tread on any toes inside the girls section because, uh, like, uh, there are people in that section that have got it spot on.

Finlay: Like they have, they have a whole team. [00:31:00] Um, and they have a whole program, um, which helps the girls get ready for the, uh, the 15, uh, the seven season. They're not playing fifteens, they're just focusing on sevens from, um, September and. For me as a director of rugby, I'm not gonna sit there and take credit for what they're doing because that is all on Gvo and all the other coaches and management that are in it, they're doing a great job.

Finlay: And I don't wanna come in and be like, no, I want this. I'm gonna change this. Because I've always got a big, uh, a big mindset of if it's not, if it's not broken, let's not try and fix it. Yeah. Let's let 'em do their thing and. I think that that what they're doing for not just the country but for the girls inside of it, is just exceptional.

Carl: I was gonna say, it sounds like you've got your work cut out on the sevens and fifteens on the men's side, so it's uh, it's match. 

Finlay: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Carl: So obviously you sort of likely touched on it, you've got a way of rugby that you want to play, which was. Attacking rugby. I'm, I'm all in for that. I love that. I try to install that as you score more points you win.

Carl: Simple as that is, is my [00:32:00] mindset. But was there much of an adaption or have you, what have you done to, have you had to bring in other coaches? Have you sort of had to upskill lads? Have you had to go and look at other options for players to suit yours? Or have you had to just make it fit and develop it over time?

Carl: How's it, how's it gone? 

Finlay: So I, I, I sat down after the, the second leg when we were in mold over, and I sat down and I went, how am I gonna get success in this year? And after speaking with the players and what they wanted, I went in last year and lots of teams saw it. I wanted to play a really high risk, high reward game.

Finlay: Lots of offloads, didn't want to play the normal style of just moving it edge to edge in sevens, as most teams do. I want it to be different. And it was either gonna work or it didn't work. It worked in Croatia. It definitely didn't work in Moldova. Um, and then I sat back and was like, do you know what, how am I actually gonna bring their strengths in?

Finlay: And watching, uh, the games back and watching the [00:33:00] league games back, watching the sevens league game back over in Hungary, the breakdown is somewhere where they come alive. And the transition in Hungarian rugby from breakdown to scoring tries is. Is spot on. And that's definitely something, and every team, I'm not, I'm not scared to say every team that kind of watches us, it would've been something they would've looked at is how good the breakdown is around Hungarian rugby and how quickly they can transition from defense to attack.

Finlay: Yeah. And that is kind of where our ID comes in. We want to be known as the best team in transition on the seventh Circuit. We wanna be known as the best transition team in the 15th circuit. And obviously there's gonna be times where it doesn't work, but I am, I'm very keen to. Continue to build on something that's a massive strength in Hungarian rugby.

Finlay: This something that the boys love. If I said to them, right, you've got the license. I remember I did it my first game in Croatia. I said, that's no Jacqueline. We're just gonna wise. We're gonna go uh, six plus one. We're gonna have one in the backfield. And that there was me not being culturally uh, wow. And we're gonna, what the word was, I didn't really look into [00:34:00] actually how they wanted to play.

Finlay: And you could see they really struggled. They had so many opportunities to go and then they backed out and um, I actually am very lucky for the people that I have, the senior players I have came down and were like, Finn. This is where we want to come alive, and we're like, right, let's do it. If the players want something, I'm very, I'm, I'm not a coach with an ego.

Finlay: I'm very like, if you want to do this, let's do it. And that's why we've got it on really early on is, uh, over the next probably two, three months, we'll install what our seventh game plan looks like. Because yeah, at the end of the day, if they, if we are doing exactly what they want, I can have. Boys who are excited to be on the ball, excited to defend and wanna put their body on the line as much as they already do for 14 minutes in intense heat, or 80 minutes in, uh, intense cold in like Slovenia.

Finlay: And kind of that's what the culture I wanted to create. 

Carl: I'm quite surprised. To hear that. 'cause like I, I, obviously I've done, I've done a, I've taken over a couple of roles. O obviously not at the, not at international level, but one thing I always learned, uh, even from [00:35:00] business was the first thing I'd do in a game or in a session was just let them play and then see what I saw and then try to rebuild.

Carl: Whereas by the sounds of it, you obviously, you went in and said, right, I just want to try and make sure we don't get scored against. But also then had to find out afterwards that that was their super strength. So really, obviously that's probably one thing you probably wouldn't do again, but do you sort of think, hold on.

Carl: I, I'd actually just let them play and then figure out afterwards. Now is that one, is that one of the big, the big takeaways that you can take from. Being a younger coach, as you say, and just say, yeah, I've probably got that one wrong. 

Finlay: If I've done something wrong or I've got something wrong, I'm not afraid to hold my hands up.

Finlay: And I'm a big believer in not being a boss, but being a leader. Yeah. And being a leader. Someone you respect someone so much more. If I hold my hands up and go, lads, I've got this wrong here. I should have done this. Yeah, but we're not gonna dwell over it. How do we fix it? And it is something that I found so [00:36:00] powerful early on in my career, just being a bit vulnerable with my players.

Finlay: Yeah. Not too vulnerable. Where they can like, don't wanna take advantage, but to the fact where they know that if I think I've got something wrong or I know I've got something wrong. I'll let you know and I'll be like, I'm sorry. And then I'm all about how do we fix it instead of then going, no, I said this, we must do that.

Finlay: I've been in changing rooms with coaches like that. I've been as a player, as a coach, and it just, it loses the dressing room. So for me, I've always wanted to build a good relationship up with my players and having that little bit of vulnerability. Something that I was taught actually at the Henley College was be vulnerable with players, not, not vulnerable like everyone thinks, but emotionally do like.

Finlay: I got that wrong. Okay. How are we gonna get better? And it just brings that extra bit of confidence, that extra bit of leadership into your role. And people are like, you know what I'm, what I'm playing for someone that can admit when they're wrong. 

Carl: Yeah. 

Finlay: Um, but also is gonna tell you when they're right as well.

Finlay: I know when I'm right and I know what I want, but at the same time, if that then becomes the wrong answer, I'm always happy to go. I've [00:37:00] got that wrong. Now. How do we get better? 

Carl: Yeah. Great trait to have, mate. And, uh, it'll get better as you, as you get older. Lead it on from that then. What is your non-negotiable standards for the players and for the staff?

Carl: Obviously, you've already sort of put your hands up and said, that's that's where I am at. What, what do you instill and what's the, what Do the players also instill themself? What's the non-negotiables as part of the, the setup? 

Finlay: People are like non-negotiable people like, you must, well have clean boots, you must do this.

Finlay: But at the end of the day. I've managed to move them. They're, they're not fully amateur players anymore, but they're not, they're not professional rugby players. I can't tell them, you must have this, you must have that. But there are three traits that I want inside a player and that is passionate, accountable.

Finlay: And honest and those three. And if I can have that out of a player, they're my non-negotiables. I want someone that's passionate for playing for the country and kind of, well, in any role, I, I'm very lucky being a country because normally when you associate a country, everyone wants to play with their country.

Finlay: Everyone loves their country. [00:38:00] So the passion always comes and I'm so grateful for that. Um, and I, the honesty is massive for me. I don't want someone to call me out in front of training and be like, Finn, we don't wanna do this. Just have a word with me. I'm constantly having messengers or WhatsApps with my players and they're like, Finn, this happened on the weekend.

Finlay: Tell me, oh, should we do this? Should we do that? And just helps my rollout and just accountability is just like, I'm going to hit the standard. We wanna win. Like everyone knows we wanna win a medal. I now, I need to be accountable for that. How am I accountable? Everyone knows their roles. Everyone knows what they've got to do.

Finlay: And if everyone can stay accountable, passionate, and can be honest, we will create a high performance environment in ourselves. 

Carl: Nice. Um, so obviously the, we've, we've covered the, the playing identity, the non-negotiables. How are you. Trying to change the public perception as well. 'cause obviously to try and build that rugby culture within what is probably like every country, a football dominated country as well.

Carl: You gotta find that weight. [00:39:00] Do the media buy into it? Do you get much media coverage, et cetera? How does. How does that work over there? 

Finlay: So kind of the way, the way it works is I, it's something that I've really pushed as well. Being young, I have this for social media and also I'm not, I'm not afraid to put myself in, in the spotlight.

Finlay: I want to grow Hungarian rugby. I want people to go. Oh look, hung are playing or, or Rugby Europe. Let's watch it. Yeah. And for me to do that, I need to be able to, not just in Hungary, but in England, in different countries, is go to media outlets, be interviewed, do podcasts to help grow on my side. And then the players are doing a great job at it as well, is that the social media presences that they've got, the way they represent their country and their different countries.

Finlay: And like, um, I always say in England is like. The amount of people that watch Hungarian rugby inside England is, is unheard of, is always, when I'm looking at the end of the year, how many percentage of people are watching Hungarian rugby, but that's just come through people being passionate about their friends and their families who play.

Finlay: Yeah. [00:40:00] Uh, in a, same with, with Hungary, it's like we have people that travel, like in Croatia we have five people travel from Hungary to Croatia to watch the tournament. When we played against, um, Serbia at home, we had a massive crowd and kind of. It's, it's great, but I wanna get, I wanna get it to the point, it might not be me, and I've always said this, I wanna, I want Hungarian rugby.

Finlay: I wanna be able to look back. If I'm not there in 10 years time, 20 years time, which I probably won't be, I wanna look back at and be like, wow. It's where we wanted it to be. Yeah. And um, I always speak so highly of him. Luke Allen, um, Henley Hawkes, he taught me this thing when I first started, is if you can leave somewhere a little bit better than when you first came.

Finlay: Then you've done something great. And that's kind of been my thing is I'm doing everything I can on my side. I will keep promoting it, we'll push it on social media, we'll get more people down, we'll get more people trying out rugby. We'll get more people watching the streams. And from that is where it grows.

Finlay: And the, the sponsors are helping. We've got some really big sponsors coming in this year, which is obviously gonna attract, [00:41:00] hopefully watch time. But for me, in a dream for, for me, and again, it probably won't be me involved, but. I would love to see on the sevenths, and they have the ability with the young players they have in, and the, the quality of players that are Hungarian qualified is, I wanna see them at the Olympics in years to come.

Finlay: I wanna see them in that championship in years to come. People call it deluded. I, I remember speaking to somebody who was inside the, um, who was inside another national team, and he was like, mate, come on. You've gotta be realistic. But realistic is comfortable. I don't like being comfortable. I'm always, no matter what environment I'm gonna be in.

Finlay: I wanna be the best, I want hungry, whatever, 17 I'm in, but especially hungry. I want 'em to be in the Olympics when I was, uh, in National League clubs. I want 'em to move up to the league. I want 'em to be a championship team. And if I was just comfortable being like, no, I'm happy being a mid table team, what.

Finlay: I'm happy staying in the trophy series then that that's not what they need. A leader is someone who's passionate and optimistic, and I [00:42:00] think at the start, the boys were a bit hesitant, like, who's this crazy guy saying this? But it's something that they started really building into and believing to the fact now where I said, and having three or four players that believe that we can win a medal this year.

Finlay: To now having 13, 14, all the way up to the 30 players that are involved being like, no, we are gonna win a medal this year to Oh, right, in this many years time our Hungarian, is Hungarian rugby gonna be in the Olympics. People believing that, that's what I, that's what I want and I always am a very optimistic person no matter what I do.

Finlay: But I'm a passionate, optimistic guy and I want the best for the country. Um, and I'll continue to push for it, and I'll always be optimistic. Grow and I'll come on podcasts and I'll do, um, media outlets, showing them kind of what Hungarian rugby should be like, and just come and watch it. Give it a watch When we're playing, just watch it on the stream.

Finlay: If you don't like it after 15 minutes, which I highly doubt you won't like it right? Then turn it off. But as long as you're watching showcase [00:43:00] how exciting Hungarian rugby is and also how physical it is. 

Carl: Yeah, it is uh, very much like the All Blacks in it, where you've gotta leave the shirt in a better place than you, than you took it on.

Carl: So, funnily enough you said that about. People buying into what you say? I had, I, I previously interviewed Thomas, Thomas Appleton, the Portuguese captain. 

Finlay: Yeah. 

Carl: And he said in the lead up to the World Cup, he, they were however many days out from playing Wales, I think it was in the opening game. Mm-hmm. And he, the first, the first day in camp, he went in and he said, we're gonna beat whale.

Carl: Everyone was like, fuck you talking about your lunatic. Yeah. A week later, two or three of them started doing it, but a month or so into the camp, everyone was So, they obviously lost, but they, yeah. Everyone started buying into it. No, literally, and then they still got one of the best results in the, in the tournament.

Carl: Obviously getting the draws and getting into that position, but it's, as you say, it's momentum. Once one person picks onto the other [00:44:00] person, it gathers and it gathers and it gathers. Not, there's not just one person that's passionate about it, it's then a whole group and a group can make that change. It's, it's, it's harder to do it one person, but once you get completely everyone to buy into it, you crack on 

Finlay: completely.

Finlay: And I, I will, I will go down fighting, uh, from my last day with the hunger of Union to the fact that, do you know what I will say? This could be one of the best teams in Europe. We're we're ranked in the top 20 for sevens at the moment. Yeah, this is obviously me speaking Sevens so. We're at top 20. Why can't we be in that top 10 in three, four years time?

Finlay: And there were some sour apples about it and they're not involved in the setup anymore. I would rather have 30 players who believed in one girl who are passionate over optimistic. 'cause if you believe in something so much, you'll make it happen. I'm a big believer in that and I've got 30 boys who believe in that right now and believe even if we don't go out, I'll still be proud because it's been something we believed in and it's just something they're passionate about.

Finlay: I get messages people are excited [00:45:00] about. About it. There's a buzz around Hungarian rugby. We've got boys wanting to get back into it. Nice. And that, that, that for me, um, it is just exciting and there's more media outlets wanting to interview Hungarian rugby players and Hungarian rugby coaches. There's more people wanting to, uh, have chats with people inside the union.

Finlay: It's just, it's Hungarian rugby. I will say it now. It's, it's about 10 years away from being. Absolutely massive. And it has the ability, it has the players, it has the staff, like how hard the staff worker, I can name like Erica Breaker, P, those three. There are so many more, they are the hardest working people I've ever met, and that is all because they're going for one cause with the women, with the men, they all have one goal and they're like, we're gonna do this.

Finlay: And it's just such a good energy to be around. 

Carl: That's amazing, isn't it? There's, there's so much, it makes your job easier to try. Be that optimistic when you've got mood hoovers around that want to try and suck the joy out of everything. Mm-hmm. Just happy for [00:46:00] mediocre it. You can't, you, you sometimes, even if they are the best player around or the best, whatever, you've kind of just sometimes gotta cut 'em, cut 'em loose because they will drag everyone else down with 'em.

Carl: Right. So obviously. Sevens waxing lyrical at the minute, mate, obviously real big targets with the fifteens in the Rugby Europe, uh, competitions. What do you think is the main gap between them and teams above, or teams below? What's what, what bits do you think you've got refine to take to the next step?

Carl: What have you gotta make sure you safeguard so you don't slip down the table at the sacrifice of sevens? 'cause a lot of nations are one or the other. And you don't wanna fall into that model of, I've had to sacrifice this for that. You wanna try and push all of it together, don't you? Really? 

Finlay: Completely.

Finlay: And like with the fifteens, we're, I think we're in 78th in the world, right? And then with the sevens with 20th in Europe. I dunno what we are in the world for sevenths. But the way, the way that I look at it [00:47:00] is just being able to be. Sustainable and being able to get to where Belgium are, for example, or where, um, Poland are, for example, where they can do dual, but at the same time it's just being able to go Right.

Finlay: We'll hold our hands up. We don't have the money compared to these countries. Yeah, they don't have a lot of money either. I'm not saying that they're absolutely minted European rugby. There's not a lot of money. Um, but the, the thing that will help us get there is being able to fly. The three uh, French players out to come and play in the national team as well as the English boys, as well as the two lads that play in Australia, et cetera.

Finlay: Being able to bring those boys into potentially not, not fill gaps, but to increase the skill level. Yeah. But when you've got boys that are full-time in France anyway, they, not even England can get players that are full-time in France and then no players. No, no, it's the Spanish, the Spanish 

Carl: team like it, obviously I was, I was, I did the [00:48:00] November International, I'm going to the Rugby Europe championships as well for, um, I'm going to am Amsterdam in two weeks time for Nice for the Netherlands against Spain as well to Nice.

Carl: Do a bit of media around it. But 

Finlay: yeah, 

Carl: Joe Meckler. Playing for to lose. Mm-hmm. Turns up, does one game against Zing England Day, then disappears again, and like Yeah. You get signed off for a certain period of time and 

Finlay: it's, it's, 

Carl: it's, it's 

Finlay: killer. It's, 

Carl: it's generate players within as well. That's the key bit.

Carl: Like, as I, as we said earlier, like you've gotta get that experience out to try and keep 'em within or within arm's reach to say, actually you don't need to go to France. You can stay here and do the same sort of model. 

Finlay: Completely. And the, the Hungarian, uh, players at, based in England, uh, the ones that qualify Ariba, um, at, uh, very well paid, uh, Hungarian, uh, uh, very well paid National League clubs.

Finlay: Yeah. Very well paid other clubs, maybe regional leagues to the fact they're [00:49:00] like, right, okay. I would love to play for my country, but I can't afford it. And yeah, we'll pay for their flights. We'll give them care, we'll give them food. But sometimes it's like, oh, I can't take four days off work. I'm, I'm a big believer.

Finlay: I I, they need to have their life. They're not, they're not full-time athletes. Yeah. So me saying, right, we're gonna do one a one week training camp, um, before a game against Serbia just isn't fair. Serbia, were able to do it and other countries are able to do it because they have. Either full-time coaches or they have players that are full-time, or they have a big sponsor that's happy to cover their wages, but Hungarian rugby at that at this moment aren't at that point, and we're happy to say that.

Finlay: And we compete. We compete against teams when we're not in that position. And I think until we're able to have, have the money, and it's, it's probably such an, uh, an, uh, a normal answer that you get in these situations. But until we have the money, it's gonna be really hard to compete because I can't expect, I can't expect.

Finlay: Every single lad [00:50:00] to take a week out of work, unpaid to come and play for the country. 'cause they love it. They can do that for the seven. They'll either have to pick the sevens or the fifteens. And I wanna be able to get to a stage where, right, we're a comfortable 15 side, which we are. We're gonna win games, we're gonna lose some games.

Finlay: But also, can we be a really successful seven side? And the benefits that I've got, I can't say at the moment, it hasn't completely been announced, but the sevens were moving in that direction where people can take time off work and stuff like that. Yeah. But the fifteens was, it is, it is hard. 'cause getting that buy-in, especially as I said, how passionate people are about their clubs over and Hungary as well.

Finlay: Yeah. And then getting people to kind of play for the country or travel to Slovenia or away and then come back and then work the next day. That's where my difficult bit comes in. 

Carl: Yes. It's, it's that fine margins. Mm-hmm. So I think this pretty much answers my next question. Is promotion a realistic goal or is it all about consolidate at the fifteens level?

Carl: We know that you've balls deep for sevens at the minute, but fifteens is it. If it happens, it happens [00:51:00] brilliant. But realistically, you've just gotta stay in your own lane wall. You develop all the other bits around it. 

Finlay: The playing is gonna be a, a factor of what we, what I'm doing off the pitch. And I'm, I'm a big believer that Hungarian rugby can, we can push and I, again, I'm, I'm never gonna stay in a role.

Finlay: I'm be like, I'm gonna stay in this position, or I wanna get demoted. I want to push Hungarian rugby onto the most I can. We lost to Serbia and we did lose to Slovenia up by, uh, like three points. So it is gonna be hard for us to go above this year, but that doesn't say that we can't do it next year. We've got so many boys, and I, I hate just saying the sevens is the goal because it's not, because that counts out so many players for the fifteens.

Finlay: Yeah. The front rowers as a lad called Jude, who plays over in England, who travels from uh, England to, uh, Hungary to come play under the fifteens. Absolutely amazing. He, he is one of the best scrimmages I've seen. He would turn someone inside out. Um, but he's, if, [00:52:00] if I said to him, right, we're already focusing on the sevens, that's not fair on him.

Finlay: I wanna, I wanna be the best fifteens team as well as the best sevens team, and I will put every single second of my, my spare time into making it a better country and to making it. Successful rugby team or more successful, is successful at the moment. And I'm, I'm lucky I have a great employer as well.

Finlay: The, the company I work for are amazing and I used all my annual leave for, uh, my time out in Hungary as much to my, uh, girlfriends dislike. But we, uh, we get her out there and she comes to the different countries, but, um. It's being able to, for me to have that balance, but also for me to go, we, we are going on the fifth, the fifties.

Finlay: We do wanna get promoted because if we're not ambitious, we're just going to continue to move down and down and down. Yeah. Hungarian rugby was once, uh, racked, 48th in the world, so how do we get back to that spot? Yes, the skill level has gone up massively since then, but at the same time, why can't we be there?

Finlay: Why can't, in three years time, if I'm in the role, if I'm not in the role, why can't Hungarian [00:53:00] rugby be there? Because it has the players. It definitely has the players. It has the, the passion, it has the staff behind it. So what is, it needs to be done. And that's what I'm figuring out at the moment. And it's a harder job than actually, um, I most people think, and I, I'm very passionate to get us to a position where we have the sevens who are absolutely flying.

Finlay: Maybe that's something that I focus on. As well as my specialty comes, and then I overlook the fifteens, but I've got someone else helping with the fifteens who can really go. I'm a wise head right here. I understand fifteens because again, I always hold my hands up. I'm, I know how Rugby's played. I, I feel like I'm a very good rugby coach, but at the same time, having that experience as somebody who's been there and been able to do it consistently over years and years and years, 

Carl: yeah.

Finlay: Go, doesn't go and miss with the boys as well. The boys would probably absolutely die to have a really experienced coach to go in the fifteens as well and be like, this is exactly what we're doing. 'cause when we went to Slovenia, I didn't have any assistant coaches. It was just me. I was doing. Running around like a head of chicken [00:54:00] and we were warming up.

Finlay: I was then doing scrum primers and then we were going over, we're back doing high ball stuff and kind of then having someone who can really focus on the fifteens and I can help them, and then having me focus on the sevens it, it would then kind of make Hungarian rugby in a really good position and keep people accountable to go, this is what I'm in charge of now.

Finlay: Let's make it really good. 

Carl: Oh, see, yeah, because I, when I was speaking to James Ken. He sort of got the same setup now within mm-hmm. Luxembourg. He's obviously managed to get Jamie Cud more over there as well and adding some exceptional coaches there to, to help push that forward. But he, he inherited what was in a bit of a mini, on a up term, but also in a back turn at the same time.

Carl: There was, yeah, few ups and downs, but they're starting to steady the shit and, but is it, you, you've, it sounds like you've sort of inherited. Hungry in that they wanna upgrade, but still trying to purse string it as well. It's, it's a fine balance in act. If you could change one thing tomorrow, [00:55:00] what would it be?

Carl: Apart from just a massive blank check that will get you whatever you want. 

Finlay: Yeah, more pay would be great. Uh, no, I think, um, for me, uh, there's, there's not too much I would change. I think for me it would be. Probably having more buy-in from the, uh, uppers of the older players is I've definitely built that trust with the younger players and it's grown massively.

Finlay: But if I could change one thing, I would really want everybody to believe in this goal that I have. Yeah. Um, if, if that could be a, I genuinely, I, I know I'm in the dream setup right now. I absolutely love this country. I think that the people that play inside of it, the people that qualify for it. I've genuinely the, some of the greatest human beings I've ever met, and I would, I would genuinely go to war for them, and I know that pretty much all of them would go to war for me and.

Finlay: That is amazing. But if I could have just those older players to really believe in that one goal, it would maybe the [00:56:00] happiest person on the circuit. Because I see, I see so much, uh, potential in this team. I see so much potential in the country and everyone else sees it. But then if we can have some more experienced heads to go, you know what, I actually see this.

Finlay: How can I benefit? I'm gonna do one more year and help out. I've got, I'm really lucky. I've got one of the ex-players, uh, who's older. Uh, he's gonna play, he's gonna be a player coach. If I have more players like that who really want to continue to grow Hungarian rugby with me and believe in this goal, I, that would be the one thing I would change.

Carl: Love it. I wouldn't take it personally though, mate. 'cause it, we, it's, there is a, there is a, as a lot of older generation or just older people, don't like somebody younger coming in and 

Finlay: completely, I've, I've def I've, I've definitely learned that, but I've, I've always, I've always ran to the point with them where, and with everybody, that's probably my biggest thing that I've held back is.

Finlay: The moment people find out my age, they go, what? What you doing? Telling me how to do this? [00:57:00] And I'm very, I'm a very big believer in I'm passionate. Right. I may not have that experience, but I will. I want, I wanna listen to your ideas. I want to get to the position you want to get to. I know what I'm good at.

Finlay: I know what I'm not good at. So yeah, I'm gonna continue to do what I'm good at and let's, let's get someone in or can you help me with what I'm not good at to make this country the best it can be? 

Carl: It will come, it will come 

Finlay: completely. 

Carl: It's, it's, it's obviously just takes time. Uh, 

Finlay: yeah. Yeah. 

Carl: Finn, I, I, this has been amazing, mate.

Carl: I really appreciate your time. Um, yes. One last thing, then we'll leave it on this, we'll leave it on this one. What message would you put out to players, coaches, potential sponsors, anyone that wants to be involved in Hungarian rugby? What is the biggest selling point and how do they get in contact with her?

Finlay: Completely. I think so. I just believe, I think if you are just somebody sat at home or if you're somebody sat in the boardroom, just believe in the goal. I think, uh, [00:58:00] sponsors, you'll see what we have to offer, what we want from this country, and you'll want to be all over it. And for the players that potentially are Hungarian qualified, it's an amazing thing to be a part of.

Finlay: And I will continue to fight. Every single time for you guys to have the best experience to you, to have guys to have benefits. And I know the board and Ray and the team manager will do that as well, but I think if my last message to everybody who's watching this is just believe in getting behind Hungarian rugby, it would mean the world to me, but I know it would mean the world to the players as well.

Finlay: They put their body on the lines. I had two boys. One person played on a severed hip throughout the whole of last year in the seventh tournament, but didn't wanna drop out 'cause he loves the country. That's how passionate the these boys are, and they will continue to fight until their last breath. So all we ask is get in behind Hungarian rugby.

Finlay: Show us some love. Follow us on Instagram, follow us on Facebook, and let's getting behind and really show what Hungarian rugby can be. 

Carl: Love it. By the looks of it, you've got some decent stash there as well, so 

Finlay: yes, I do. You can get to the airport as well now, which is great. [00:59:00] 

Carl: Gotta love a bit of stash. Um, yeah, for everyone that's been watching, everyone that wants to know more, obviously as Finley said, we've got it, Instagram, Facebook, this will be on every platform.

Carl: Thank you so much for joining us and make sure you drop a message to Finn. Say everything that you've, how good you've enjoyed this episode, and go and share the love with Hungarian rugby for us as well at rugby TTL. Make sure you like, subscribe, follow all of that good. Governings, we are still here. We are not going anywhere.

Carl: We're gonna try and spread more of the word about rugby Europe and every other bit that we get to cover. Thank you for joining us. It's another week. It's another one done. And we'll see you next time.