Micromanage No More: How Trust Builds Stronger Teams

Letting go is hard—especially when you're used to having a hand in every project.

In this episode, we talk about the challenges of stepping back, trusting your team, and strengthening communication (including a unicorn emoji strategy). Plus, the legendary Twerking Bull makes its grand return. 🐂💃 Tune in for laughs, leadership lessons, and maybe a little chaos!

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:29 Bill Rides in Silence Like a Weirdo??
• 2:36 It's Sports Day - English Soccer
• 10:53 Bill Goes to France
• 18:04 Kristy Going to France/Communication
• 25:02 Working Remote
• 29:08 The Twerking Bull Returns
• 34:56 Who Will Rescue Kristy Taken-Style?

Transcript

do I have to ask if your phone is silent silence actually I forgot my phone at home today did you really how do you even do that I don't know how do you listen to music in the car that would be my first like out on my phone because I can't hear my music what do you how do you what do you are you riding in silence like a weirdo I ride in silence to the office in a like I do I ride really yeah I often times like to come to work and not listen to anything and be alone with your thoughts how could you possibly tolerate that that sounds scary you know what's interesting to me about it that music as a thing that music is nothing more than sound waves yeah but sound waves put in a specific order causes us to have emotions is it music or lyrics for you

both like I mean yeah definitely more lyrics for me but the right music behind it obviously right but I mean like you're never going to be Melancholy listening to the Beastie Boys that's probably true yeah regardless of what the lyrics are that's why I like songs that are deceptively like you think they're happy songs but the lyrics are super depressing Pap this is the sound of settling yes yes yes yeah or you uh you remind me of home is another Ben giber song which is just Ben Gibbard is the the master of sounding Cherry but being dead inside thanks that's why I love it thanks Zoe Deschanel thanks Zoe I feel like we can uh SPL this actually into the podcast yeah this is the podcast for sure this is how we're going to start opening the podcast he's just like chatting chatting welcome you've dropped into the chat you've dropped in I'm still trying to figure out hat on or hat off for the podcast I think hat on because we're going with a sports Vibe today we realized that we were both in different ways wearing sports clothes today as you can see by my Barbie uh is it tennis I'm tennis clubbing today you're tennis Barbie yeah I'm tennis Barbie today your job is tennis and uh which Barbie are you I'm uh Jordy Barbie okay so there's a story behind the shirt okay so this is going to give away when we film this okay because we're filming this in March 17th I think that's today's date yep yep and then yesterday being the 16th of the team here Newcastle United they won the English football cup which is like the like it's a trophy it's not like the biggest trophy you can win in English football or soccer I was going to say we're talking soccer wecc we're saying football but we're talking soccer okay we're talking about English football okay um so and and the long story behind it is like the jordis and Newcastle United there's this very long-suffering team they hadn't won a trophy since 1969 wow and but they're like a big they're a big Club they have a lot of followers um a lot of people who like barcodes um yeah yeah you look more like a ref yeah I actually went and saw them play West Ham um like four five years ago saw them where in Newcastle oh really yeah I went to one of their matches but the the like the longer story they're called matches yes I didn't know that I'm learning yes the longer story behind it is when I was a young man MH living in New York and I had some good friends that were from England from the north um they were from Darlington which is not far from Newcastle everything sounds so cute from darling Newcastle yes Newcastle upon oh my word so adorable so and the husband was from Newcastle right so it was funny during that time there was a World Cup on and I was rooting for England during for the World Cup you know David Beckham you know it was like the glory years of of of English football and they were in the World Cup and the English and the World Cup are also like perennials like let you down like you think like this is their year they're going to be awesome and then they just break your heart yeah and so I was watching the world cup with my English friends and like we were emailing each other and messaging each other you know after each of the matches like oh that was awesome and then you know the Heartbreak when they they lost and you know the World Cup gets over and I like sent my friend an email or message him and I was just like yeah I says you know what that was like my first introduction into soccer yeah and I was like wow I was like I really like soccer and I think now I said I have to find a a English team to follow like to be a supporter like I need to become a fan of somebody in the english team because you were seeing them over there for what reason just cuz your friends were or yeah and I was like the World Cup's huge anyways right and and you know and I have like a lot of affinity to the English and I have a lot of English friends and so it was you know like it was like yeah I was like I was going to root for England in the World Cup you know as like my team right and I I think I had a David Beckham England Jersey at the time yep um so I was getting into it and I was playing a lot too like I was playing a lot of pickup soccer and I was just like I was really enjoying it and so it was right around the time that the Red Sox owner bought Liverpool okay and so there was a lot of like more interest getting into soccer here and and I remember being like Oh I need to support a soccer team in England and have like my team that I can you know pin all my hopes and dreams on just like they do and I sent him a message saying like maybe I'm going to come a Liverpool fan that would be you know like said who in the message my friend my my my Jordy friend I the yeah and so I was like I need to choose a team and I was like maybe I'll become a Liverpool fan and like a week later I get a Newcastle United jersey in the mail wow and uh and it was funny because he was just like he gave me like all the reasons why I should become a Newcastle fan and you know and to me at the time Newcastle really felt like the Red Sox like this team you know like up before 2003 2004 you know where it was like the Red Sox broke your heart every year and you're like this is the year they're going to win the series and then they just you know they never won anything but you know they had good teams but they just broke your heart and so I was like you know what I think Newcastle is really our people you know they're from the north they're they're um there's this team of Underachievers and you know and so I started following Newcastle and sure enough they like broke my heart for like the next you know 20 years of following them and it's also funny so my friends from Newcastle they've been over like three or four times and they always bring me a new Castle United Jersey anytime they come so I need a picture of all your jerseys to in here I let's yeah let me I'm going to pull them all out and get like pictures of all of my new I even have a Newcastle United jersey with my name on it a CU I was over there and I got one made with my name on it cuz I thought that would be kind of cool and I almost missed my flight cuz the store was taking so long yeah which another great story um but so anyways Newcastle won the cup this weekend um so I had to congratulate all my Jordy friends and also Dan in our office I was going to say what is his team he's a Liverpool fan I thought he was Liverpool and they beat Liverpool in the Cup finals I thought he was Liverpool yeah so of course I had to send Dan a message yeah y because disappointing for Dan it was disappointing for Dan but Liverpool has won a lot of trophies like they're that team that he can take the loss they're the New York Yankees really of of you know of English soccer so you know we can get a we can get the crumbs yeah so they they won they won a trophy they're exciting and yeah and you know I also realize that there might be more of a like a I said the Red Sox but they honestly might be more like the eagles because their fans are unhinged like the Philadelphia Eagle fans Newcastle fans and they share this um one weird connection is both of them have had a rest of people punching police horses they're fans and I was like yeah that's that's a very Philly thing I guess too so maybe they're more like the eagles Boston fans are intense but I don't think they're they're not like that type of intense I don't think any more I think the gentrification of Boston has changed that where I think 2000 Boston was like that and now it's just too many people that are yeah they're just Boston people are Boston people Boston people are Boston people but I think they've lost a little bit the I think Boston's lost the edge yeah I think Philly Philly's keeping it keeping it real yeah yeah so maybe that's why they're winning Super Bowls now I guess I guess so yeah thank you for coming to our Sports podcast everyone it's it's sport I don't know how to incorporate Barbie into this um but it's not unlike me to be bringing Barbie into the conversation that is true I mean right off camera I can look and see the Ken pillow too yeah yeah yeah which I probably should have just like been holding to complete the Ensemble today but yeah um but I think it's good here's my segue ready for the segue I think it's good to have an interest in sports things in other areas okay because it connects you to communities that you're not connected to yeah and the wider world and travel and that said um again dating when this is being filmed yeah that's okay this is my last Monday in the office until May something stressful yeah because I am going to be spending a month in the south of France he's going abroad abroad so there's an interesting thing The Grand Tour so most of what comes to people's mind when they talk about The Grand Tour is like Jeremy Clarkson and driving cars and a bunch of like Old English guys acting silly in automobiles right yeah so it's interesting that phrase The Grand Tour actually came from like the 1600 1700s and it was principally about people usually upper class people who had the money to do this um and especially like British people and that they would go and they would spend a month or two on the continent uh it was a lot of times Italy um but then they would travel through the continent and it was supposed to be this idea that it would expand your horizons your camera is recording right yeah it's recording keep going that it would expand your horizon The Grand Tour was all about like these wealthy aristocat wealthy Aristocrats traveling abroad and you know collecting things and collecting experiences and it was like the original Gap year you know for for them to make these lavish trips and you think about and then that progressed to the American Grand Tour and you think about like very famous writers and artists and about like for instance F Scott Fitzgerald and Hemingway and all them are you about to compare yourself to all of this well no but yeah I'm going to be hunched over my typewriter in the south of France he's packing his typewriter yes my manual typewriter my wife is going to be like what is in that luggage it's in the carryon actually it's in the carryon instead of a tablet in his he's got hisor on the plane he's not even sitting with his wife not even sit with my wife I'm going to be like hunched over the sea talking yeah um but no like that idea of like then it became like this American thing similarly because American culture go to Europe and not just be like hey we're here for a week but like spending a longer period of time to kind of absorb European culture yeah so I think coming full circle now to our day right and I think you see that with a lot of digital Nomads like it really is their grand tour and they're going to places they're able to work remote and they're able to experience things that in a traditional work environment you would not be able to get out and do and I think that's really beautiful like we think about C Point here um you know as far as American based employees we have an employee who is in columia we've got an employee in Chile we've got an employee in Argentina um we've got Rachel who even though she's an Irish National she's in Italy a lot M um you know I think that idea of being able to this type of industry has given us the flexibility to be able to experience some of those things yeah um this for me is the first time and it's going to be an interesting experience because it's a little bit different just being an employee but being the agency owner yeah um one of the things I know cuz I did a little bit of work in Italy a couple years ago the Cadence of work is really interesting what do you mean by that well like in Italy for instance you would wake up in the morning and everyone in the states would be asleep until noon so I would wake up and because I would go have gone to bed much earlier my email inbox was just blown up every morning I'd have like 30 emails to go through and you know and people messaging me about stuff at the end of the day you know like hey how are we doing on this project are we on track like project manager peing me about things and it was a lot but nobody bothered me and for that for me that's I shouldn't say bothered but no one needed resources for me right and so I thought that was really a unique experience because I got up in the morning I answered all my emails and then I had a solid like three hours just to work and it was quiet yeah and got a bunch of you know and I was really able to kind of like meditate on client projects to think about strategy and I found it kind of refreshing and then really around noon is when everybody else was coming online from our East Coast employees and teams and things and then you know until you know that would just go until the evening um and I would just I was just checking out around 6 7 um but you know it was I enjoyed that type of work um I think just to be my wife also is working remotely and she's has to be much more tied to the East Coast time so going to be doing like a 2 to8 or 2 to9 um so I might find myself doing that more so it's going to be interesting like working but working afternoon evenings um but to have mornings off to you know explore mornings off more lots of going out to breakfast yeah and I don't know if that's really a a French thing yeah like so where we are especially like so we're going to be in the south of France near uh city called propon and I probably mispronounced that for any that's how we're saying yeah um it's I have a French sister-in-law and every time I say it she's like what like what I don't understand the words coming out of your mouth American man yes and then I'm like we're going to Pon and then she like has to like cck me and she's like no P like it's like this it's actually the same thing yeah in my my ear I'm like yeah that's exactly what I said and she's like no no no no no yes so maybe by the time we're done I'll be pronounce it yeah the other great thing about this is Christie Christie you're going to be there I'm coming to France yes so we're going to actually film we're going to meet up and film we're going to meet up and film an episode of the podcast either in the south of France or we might depending on our timing in Paris because we're all going to be traveling to Paris together as a team at the end of the trip I don't I think Paris is going to be pretty booked as far as timing and and and you're want to do things maybe in per and then we can keep saying it saying it wrong we can sit on the beach be those Americans that make everyone mad we'll be like we're we're filming here from Pon and then like people will walk by and'll be like I can't picture the logistics of how we're going to film uh we'll figure it out we'll figure it out I think we're going to use like a Osmos and phones maybe and then like little portable speakers it may not be the best audio quality we apologize now yes but since we're going to film one then MH and we're sitting here talking about it right now what are your biggest trap additions about going to Europe oh man like my personal what is this word you use trepidations trepidation trepidation trepidation Fierce can I use that word yes what like what are you what are you worried about um man where do I begin uh well there's a lot of plane crashes in the news you seen those fires every time they land there's a fire yeah no I don't think that that's actually a big fear of mine um I'm fine to die in a plane crash um I think actually it's more of like language barrier is always an issue but like I feel like I'll figure it out but sometimes I just worry like anytime I have a communication like issue with anybody even just speaking in English it's like that is so frustrating to me so literally not being able to communicate is a fear of mine and I think that's going to be interesting where we're traveling so my personal experience is if you're in a major metropolitan area like I've been a Rome and Madrid and uh Paris English is pretty prevalent mhm like you go to restaurants and like I found I was in Florence two years ago and I felt like I was at Epcot okay of like it was so more Americans there than there was Italian kind like Canada like yeah like kind of similar right like go to Quebec and everyone speaks English right and they just look they like you're dumb cuz you can only speak sometimes they have to grab someone else who speaks English A Little Bit Stronger them but but what I have experienced is when you get out of those major metropolitan areas where there's a lot of Tourism and a lot of English being spoken that's where it gets dicier and we've had some funny experiences um we had an issue with a rental car once where we were driving out of Paris and we were on the border of Germany mhm and something happened with a car and we had to pull into a gas station that was a Herz rental SL gas station and the lovely ladies but they spoke no English and trying to swap out a rental car with people who don't speak English was just like a comical experience and it was funny cuz like they were calling up like the Herz headquarters in our behalf to explain the situation and they were like yelling at him in French and I was like yeah I don't know what you're saying but yeah keep going yeah thank you for thank you for advocating for us you know side point which was hilarious to me like so typical French we got done with the issue with the car they got it sorted out with Herz the regional and said you know we can we can give you a different car we'll swap the cars out and get you on your way and they're like we we're going to finish the paperwork for you they're like but first we must go have a smoke oh my world they went outside and like took a 10-minute smoke break and I was like this stress has capped us off please hold yes but I was just like kind of laughing because I was like that feels that feels very French this does feel very I'm having a very full French experience yeah I'm very authentic experience so I am worried about where we're going yeah in the South that it may not be as English um as other areas yeah so couple things that we're doing um is I got translation glasses yes yes and we're actually got two different types of translation classes oh I didn't know you had two well one of them has not been uh shipped yet I've got the uh even realities G1 you if you know I'm not a not name dropping this is not a place product placement um I picked those up a few weeks ago cuz they're already out and on the market but there's another company called holiday okay um that on the CES show it was like one of the big things I've highlighted from there where it's also glasses that beam directly into your eye MH and does an automatic translation so sounds scary it does um you know like I think it's probably going to be one of those things that overpromises and you know and I'm going to be like oh I'll be able to listen into French conversations and you're blind in a year or in blind in a year but also I feel like maybe like the latency of it going to be so slow that you know someone's going to be like talking you in French and it's just going to be like it's going to be like buffering and it's going to be like and I'm just going to be like looking up at the corner of my eye yeah so it may not be as you need have a stick on your head that says please hold I'm translating yes or I feel like I should just have a t-shirt that says J American H stupid donk I feel like that's just kind of like they know that already yes yeah here's also Pro tip if you're ever in France how you can get away with faking in a conversation with a bunch of people just up and be like saah and the answer to that question is SAA and then and they'll go SAA and you can just be like no because then they think that I speak French and I don't well they'll they'll figure that out pretty quick gu that's the point I like street cred lose it immediately yeah I like the fact that we're spending less time actually trying to learn French to find loopholes also very American on par for us on par for us use technology to make up for the fact that lazy I think I I learned I did two years of French in high school and the whole time I was like I will never use this I don't need to store this in my brain and now here we are here we are 20 years later just like and we got the double whammy because we're also going through Barcelona both of us at different times yeah and so you also have Spanish to yeah also just that there was never any storage space left in this brain yeah so I feel like Barcelona though again major Metropolitan Hub English is like there are so many tourists in Barcelona to the point where there's like protests against tourism in Barcelona yeah it's adding a fear yeah well so follow-up fear is traveling in general is navigating uh Transportation just in general that can be stressful y like and we'll have been there for a month so hopefully know how to navigate yeah hopefully we'll have a little bit of understanding of the area and how things work and not to make horrible social faux Paws right yeah yeah I will let you lead the way and make those mistakes first so but yeah it's it's it's it's going to be a very interest interesting experience and I do think it's interesting because it does I think stepping away from your normal routine of work has a lot of benefits again not just like the digital Nomad and The Grand Tour of going to a place and learning from it and and and experiencing different things I think there's a lot of value in that even from a work perspective in that you get so used to like especially like a lot of our clients are retainer a lot of our clients is the same work we're just repeating over and over U month after month and I don't mean that in a bad way it's just but that's just the nature of it that I think like stepping out of our own personal experiences while we're doing that work lends the ability to look at it in fresher ey yeah and anytime you come back from a vacation you always come back like with a new brain and that is true I'm a terror when I come back from vacation like I come back from a a vacation and I'm like we're blowing everything up brand new website we're not we're changing how we're doing this I think you just get creative when you come back from from trips or Vacations or breaks like you just have like it resets you personally I I agree with that so it'll be interesting to see how this longer period of time um you know I'm working I'm working remotely for full month yeah so that was my next question is like what are your fears if any of what that's going to be like challenges of working away from the team because you're so you're usually here at least three to four days a week in person with the team yeah I think that's the biggest fear is just because um accessibility to me as the agency owner as far as I'm very Hands-On yeah and I know like it depends different agencies have different some agencies the ownership's much more MH you know hands off but you know I'm much more like walk through the office checking in on people um looking over people's shoulders helping with like like little problems right like people be like oh I don't understand why this isn't like this website's not resolving correctly or what does this mean and you know trying to understand those things um I worry that people are not going to be like Oh I'm not going to bother bill with this and it's going to hold up other people's work I feel like at this point you're so like with the company so much big picture that you don't need to micromanage things but that is also maybe part of what could create a problem is that you might like do you feel like you might get so far away from everybody because no one needs to come to you because you're so big picture now that there's no need to check in with Bill so you're going to have to really be extra tuned in yeah and I think that I mean I think there's pros and cons of that right like I think maybe I have a tendency to micromanage projects at times I don't think you do I don't think you need to but I don't think I need to at this point because of what we've built but I think sometimes I I have trouble like can't letting go of the technical and letting like people concentrate on their technicals um and this will give me the ability to maybe like get a better like reset as far as um you know like being there for the team but not having to um be on the day-to-day stuff I mean there's some projects that I think I am going to be much more tuned in on you know just our larger projects um you know and making sure our clients with the service yeah um that uh they they require but I think it also gives me the opportunity to you know let all of the team members and really shine in their respective roles which I think even in the last year um you know we've just seen tremendous growth from the team members and their personal development um and that you know that's we're trending in that direction anyway so maybe this is good for me to personally like see like look the office is doing great everyone's doing their jobs you like you don't have to be that that um involved in all the projects I think you just won't you won't be able to see like you normally do literally with your eyeballs like oh like analine and Kristy are working on this thing together like they've got it under control like you're not just like passing through like oh they're on that video unless we literally are telling you like yeah we're working on this video right now we're just knowing like yeah the video getting it's getting taken care of or whatever so I think Communication in general is just going to have to be a little bit stronger and on that note bringing back to us something that we used to joke about and laugh about I think that in in D like messaging we're going to have to bring back like unicorn emojis and like like being stronger with the Emojis so that we know like all is good because We've joked about in the past especially with like men and women Bill's just like an okay period type of texture and we're all like okay is he mad is this cool like can you please send some unicorn emojis so we know that everything is rainbows and okay you're really actually happy about this and you're just not responding out of [ __ ] yes yeah can I bring back that I'm empowering women by being a away absolutely not okay but it was worth trying to slide that in seeing if I had some old joke joke listen I've been here eight years now think about that you and Courtney know where all the bodies are buried in these walls that we Happ to drywall why did we drywall them that's where the bodies are which which emojis are we going with I don't know I'll have to work on that maybe we should ask our listeners yeah which emojis should we go with to let us know that Bill's not mad at us here let me let me pause for a moment to create a clip that you can use across social but hey viewers on Instagram and Tik Tok What emojis or Expressions would you use to reply to your team members to show them that you're fully supportive and that you appreciate their work and you're excited about what they're doing is it just the thumbs up no no so yeah please leave a comment and tell us what you would do I'm personally fond of the Santa Emoji because I feel like it's so like what are we using that emoji for do you remember the twerking bowl no okay so when the Google is it gone it I don't know if it's gone it might be somewhere in the Android phone still um but when I first got like a Google Nexus or the pixel phone like at the very early days like in that trans between the Nexus and the pixels like Google loaded these like little stickers I don't have it it was these little stickers but the way the phone was set up it was super easy to slip and and hit hit the stickers and like four or five times like people would ask me like a serious question in our internal chat they' be like is it okay to launch this or are you concerned about the length of this article and i' go to respond instead all I do is like hit twerking Bull and I'm like no and it's like the Bull's like looking over shoulder at you and it's like and I'm just like oh I'm creating HR problem it wasn't an emoji it was like a it was a sticker it was like a gift okay so maybe who at Google who at Google was like oh man this is going to be your goto that was definely on purpose that was for sure on purpose oh we need to bring that back I really hope that still exists somewhere somewhere in here because we're bringing that back okay so twerking bll is an option and then and you know what's really funny about that is like I felt bad cuz I accidentally did it like three times to the team like texting somebody on the team and I had somebody else on a very serious text message on a personal matter at the time send me like this very serious text message about something and then the next thing they sent me was the twerking bow they sent it to you they sent it to me and I realized I wasn't the only one challenged having challenges with the with the keyboard on do it on purpose no no no it it was okay so I don't think you could imagine okay with a twerking bull is being in his repertoire oh my word yes that's hilarious yeah that's one of those Google things I have no idea like like yeah somebody was somebody was micro doing at at Google like this would be a good idea right let's stickers and make it just so small of a keyboard and this button will be right next to like the letter A Google bring it back we need it back yeah let's ruin relationships with the bull let's make work very awkward for everybody very awkward inappropriate really we're pro for that yeah we are Pros for that just it creates it creates good memories yeah so maybe maybe that will be the Emoji you'll I'll be in France I mean it probably is better for Spain honestly more on point with Barcelona but you know south of France you know you might get that me up yeah yeah so we just have to let the rest of the team know yes that this is the code this is the code let's not forget I can just see Tim doing the Tim eyebrow when it comes through like you know what let's not tell them let's find out if they watch our podcast team are you watching or not you didn't watch this feels like your fault yes see if my wife listens to my podcast yeah like listen this is on them maybe I'll make her listen to this episode MH well we're in car rides in France you do you like to do that I do good yes have we talked about that the podcast yes we have yeah my wife's like H we don't never talk I'm like sh you can just listen to my voice listen to my voice with Kristy yeah with Kristy when was the last time you talked to Kristy yes you haven't seen her in weeks cuz we're in France you'll see her next week but listen to her now yes so yeah something to look forward to everybody our French our French podcast watch it be really lame and we've been talking it up this whole time or watch it just not happen because because we all got in plane crashes or I just get abducted in uh Barcelona and I never make it to France yeah and Liam n's on the phone with the air abductor like I have a particular set of skills that will be Tim do you think Tim would come and rescue me from a taken situation probably not he doesn't have the motivation he does not uh analy W analin oh Anin would down yeah yeah Dan oh Dan definitely would yeah um sorry Tim I just I know you and like I know that like Tim's like but I got fishing plants he has yeah he's got plans like he's tired yeah I get it bum ankle yeah exactly my gouts bothered me it's going to prevent me Tim is a good man everybody I'm just kidding let's see if let's see if Tim watches the podcast yeah all right and on that note so we're signing off we'll see you or you'll see me um with a French accent next in France in a br or V is that what we say yeah and smoking a cigarette or AO a a a AO bon bon yes