15 - Harry Lambert of OTB Coaching - Building a Winning Business Culture

Discover the pivotal role that core values play in shaping the culture and operations of a children's activity organisation.

Today, James sits down with Harry Lambert, founder of OTB Coaching, a dynamic football academy known for its innovative approach to youth coaching. 

Harry shares the transformative journey of OTB Coaching, from its early days as 'On The Ball' to its rebranding, focusing on the integration of both on-the-ball and off-the-ball coaching strategies, embracing values that pack a real punch: Energy, Care, and Detail.

This conversation covers the challenges and triumphs of embedding energy, care, and detail into every facet of the business, demonstrating how well-defined values can drive growth, enhance customer engagement, and streamline internal processes. 

This talk is your front-row ticket to turning values into victory. Game on!

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from Steps2Success, where we help you navigate the challenges of running a children's activity organisation with practical advice and expert insights.

Created with pride by LoveAdmin

Edited with finesse by Making Digital Real

Transcript

James Brooker  0:01  
Hey everybody, this is James strategic business manager at LoveAdmin, and you're listening to the guided growth podcast where we'll be taking you through the basics of growing your activity organisation with real insights and real actions you can apply to your organisation.

James Brooker  0:15  
Hey everybody, this is James strategic business manager at love admin, and you're listening to our step2success podcast today, I'm with Harry from OTB coaching a football academy with a difference. We're going to be discussing how important values are in a children's activity organisation and the difference it can make to your growth and your customers happiness, Harry, welcome. Thanks for joining us. Let's kick off by talking about OTB coaching, how it all started, and the journey you've been on so far. 

Harry Lambert  0:40  
Hi, James, thanks for having me. So yeah, let's go right back to the start. So started coaching when I was 12 years old, just helping out at a local football coaching company, and worked with them all the way up through university. So it funded a little bit of my my university whilst I was whilst I was attending, and then after and during my final year, I decided that it was something I wanted to go into after university, so put all the plans in place to get started as soon as I finished my degree. And then OTB coaching was born. Back in the day, it was called on the ball, so we were on the ball football coaching, and it's not until recently that we have rebranded and called ourselves OTB coaching. 

Harry Lambert  1:27  
I've got to ask the question that I'm sure everybody's thinking, why did you rebrand to OTB instead of on the ball? It still stands for on the ball, so OTB still stands for on the ball, but it also covers the off the ball coaching that we also offer. So we are very big on promoting and driving development of our players, both on and off the pitch. And the OTB just fell nicely with on the ball and off the ball coaching, 

Unknown Speaker  1:56  
nice, cool, and I think that's that's a really cool piece to to include, sort of moving away for a more kind of compliment in that that core offering that that you've got with the football academy, and including that element of mindfulness and well being in there as well. So talk to me a little bit just before we kind of dive into values and branding and all of that type of thing. You told us a little bit about the start of OTB and how it all came about. What's the last couple of years been like now that you've sort of been growing, adding on different sites, dealing with more more admin, all of that type of thing. How have you found that as kind of a departure from where it all began? 

Unknown Speaker  2:37  
Yeah, so we started the business, and for about, I'd say maybe 12 years. We were very linear with with our growth in the business we had set up, and basically we had created ourselves a job. So I wasn't really a business owner. I'd created myself a job through the business, and that was how it was running. And it wasn't until recently that I decided I wanted to take it to the next level. Family life came along a little one my requirements personally changed as I wasn't able to solely commit to the business. 24/7, whenever I was needed, it required more team and growth in the business. So the last 18 months have been a real big shake up for us. I feel like we are a new business again. It's exciting. All these new changes are happening. Love admin came on board as it was such a big part of my role when I wasn't on the pitch was managing everybody's memberships and payments and subscriptions. And it was a real big difficulty of mine. It was where the majority of my time was going, which I think, you know, enabled me to stop growing the business. It didn't allow me to to get through it. And then, love, admin came on board, solved a lot of those problems, freed up a lot of my time, and then, you know, we've been able to drive the business to the next stage in the last 18 months. 

Unknown Speaker  4:06  
It's great to hear. And I think that's a really common thing that the businesses face, is they go through that organic phase where it's all it's all new, and you're sort of doing it for the first time, and it's relatively small scale, but bit of a one man band. But then how you deal with that next phase, I think is really, really important. And I know from the discussions we've we've had already, that hopefully now joining the steps Success program is going to be that additional step to really drive, drive things on further. So tell, tell me about how your values have sort of evolved with that, and have you always clearly defined them, or is that something that's kind of evolved organically over time, 

Unknown Speaker  4:41  
if I'm completely honest, it wasn't really a conversation that we ever had in the first 12 years of the business. We never really had specific laid out values and branding that wasn't a thing for us. It wasn't until I sat down with a.

Harry Lambert  4:59  
Our friend, a friend called Wes, who has really helped me turn the business around with his branding advice. And we sat down and got in a workshop together, and from that, all the values that we wanted to incorporate into the business were born then. So the three values that we we push is energy, care and detail, they were just apparent through that, throughout the meeting, they just materialized themselves. After all the conversations and the hundreds of sticky notes that we had on the wall, these three core values and principles of the business were very apparent, and it's something that we've always had within the business. It's just never been down on a piece of paper and set forward that everybody follows suit to. 

James Brooker  5:45  
I know we've discussed previously around the fact that previously had a set of values for the business and a set of values for your your your coaches talk to me a little bit about that. 

Harry Lambert  5:56  
So, yeah, we had team values because I was conscious that when, when we started building out the team values and the coaching values, that there were going to be people inside the business that weren't coaches. So whether they were operations, marketing, design, whatever it would be, I was conscious that our coaching values when we're on the pitch as football coaches, where we coach with energy, coach with detail and coach with care. I didn't feel like they married up to their tasks as a non coach in the business. So we created separate team values for for the team that we would do internally. But having conversations with you and you sort of asked the question, why did we have different ones in which I couldn't really give an answer? You know, you asked me what they were, and quite embarrassingly, I couldn't even tell you what they were. I had to go back and have a look what the team values were. And they were a little bit wishy washy, a little bit generic, something that the fact that I couldn't tell you what they were straight off hand just signals the fact that they were a little bit null and void in the business. So as you made that suggestion of carrying our coaching values and not just having them as coaching values, we carried them through as team values as well. So everything within the business is done with energy, care and detail, and it really just helps with simplicity of recruiting, session planning, onboarding, team members, all those different things within the business. Just having those three simplified values has really helped in in direction for me. 

James Brooker  7:40  
Yeah, I think, I think it's a really good point, and I know some something is, as you say, that we've already sort of worked through a little bit in in our previous sessions, but that this is really common to try and overthink your your values, and worry about its application in in different scenarios where it's really common to have a part of the team that's actually delivering the sessions, doing the activity, that you're kind of specialists as such. And then you've got your administrators, your operators, your managers, who aren't at the coalface of delivering the service that you're providing, but are still an important part of the business. You kind of think why they're two that they're such different people, they're going to need different different things to motivate them and and keep them on track. But I think if you've got the right values, then it should transcend all of that. And I think certainly the bits that you came up with that were sort of administration specific, operations specific, have have value, and I certainly wouldn't recommend getting rid of them completely, but I would look at what else can they be. Because your values should be that unified single thing that is sort of the identity of of OTB, and that's that's really the power of a value is that everybody should know what they are, whether that's your customer, someone who's looking at your website for the first time, someone who works for you, it should be really apparent what those two three things are, the other bits that sit below that, for me, that's like ways of working. That's another type of framework to make sure that people in specific roles are delivering what you need them to deliver. 

Harry Lambert  9:18  
So that was the, basically the conversation that we had after hire, that conversation with you, I went back to the team, and actually we decided that they were more behaviors within the business. Our team values is how we want our team to behave, and not they weren't actual values that we that we wanted to push forward. And I think one of the the things that changed our mind was the fact that we thought our team values and the coaching values were very internal. It wasn't until having conversations with the self and the team again that actually we want OTB coaching to come across.

Harry Lambert  10:00  
With energy, care and detail, because that is how it comes across. Anyway, it comes across that way. So we want them to be outward facing as well, not just internal things that we discuss in team meetings or when we're session planning, or whether I'm having conversations with new coaches or new team members. I feel as though if we can voice that out to our clients and customers as well, it just solidifies what we do and what we offer. 

James Brooker  10:28  
Yeah, I agree. And I think people often make a distinction between your brand and your values. And brand is very often stereotyped as the kind of physical aspects your logo, what uniform you wear, all those quite superficial things. But to me, a powerful brand is one that is your values. And the two are kind of two sides of the same coin, really, and your brand is just sort of the bow on the top of what your values are are representing. So certainly aligning that, and that shift, I think, is a really important one, because in a competitive marketplace, and you know, we did some competitor analysis together the other week, and we saw in in Mansfield, where, where your main pitch is, that there are four or five different different operators all providing varying levels of football coaching with slight nuances, but broadly to a non discerning customer, it's football coaching.

James Brooker  11:28  
So ensuring that you can stand out within that is really important, and that's where your values come in, because people are going to buy in to the values. When it comes to price, you're broadly going to be in the same ballpark when it comes to location. There are a finite number of locations, so it is around your values and the people element of the service that that you're providing. 

Harry Lambert  11:51  
You know, we found it difficult to have those conversations where, how do we differentiate between everybody else? When we are a football coaching company, and you asked me on our first meeting, you know what makes you different? And I feel like you know the fact that we are energetic, we care, and we've got detail in the business. Those three things combined is our differential. You know that can and it speaks volumes. And I found it very difficult to explain that to you. When you asked me, first time in my head, I was just thinking. You asked me, Why are we better? And I was just thinking, just because we are like I find it very difficult to tell you why we're better. I just know that we are and the products and the services that we offer are better, but now it's just more apparent that we have more energy, more care and more detail within the business. It just helped. I could have explained that if you asked me the same question now, I'd be be able to explain it in a lot more detail and a lot more confidence about why we differ from local coaching companies in and around Mansfield and Nottingham and all of our other venues, 

James Brooker  13:00  
and how important do you think that sort of development in your own kind of thought processes has has been when looking to hire new coaches or induct new new team members, 

Harry Lambert  13:12  
it just simplifies the whole process When I sit down with candidates previously, I struggled to have the conversations about why we're different, why we're better, why you should choose us.

Harry Lambert  13:28  
It was all very difficult, but now we're in a line with everything, and we've made these decisions, and we have the branding and the values and everything about the business has come together to streamline everything. It just makes those conversations so much easier and so much more clear for both myself and the people who are coming on board. And it just helps in having those conversations in terms of onboarding or whether they're a new recruit, or whether they are having a performance review. You just look for those three things, energy, care and detail, and it just makes things and my job so much easier and more fair. Is more fair for everybody, because they know what they need to aspire to. They know what they need to cover. They know they need to cover the energy, the care and the detail within their sessions or within their jobs, whatever they're doing within the business, if it's got energy, care and detail, then you know, we're ticking the boxes that we need to tick. 

James Brooker  14:24  
And it's, it's evident from the way you've answered that question and previous questions, that those, those three values are always on on the tip of your tongue in relation to any activity that you're doing. And that's certainly advice I would give to any organization looking to really make the most of their values. If it's not something you're thinking about all the time in relation to every decision you make, then then they're not your values. Because they're not they're not important enough. 

Harry Lambert  14:49  
Yeah, and we do that with every task. So if we were running in one of our camps during the school holidays, we break down every aspect of it, so the welcoming, so when the players are.

Harry Lambert  15:00  
And signing in and getting registered, we ask ourselves, are we providing energy care and detail within that task alone? So whether it's just registration, are we doing energy care and detail within that task and then any task within the day, or the campaign that we're offering, anything that we do, we just try and include those three things, and then it just aligns the business and our product and our offering. So it's even down to small tasks, team meetings, anything that we do, we try and include those three things. So it's just made it really easy for us to stay on brand. 

James Brooker  15:36  
And do you think that's had an impact on your customers as well? Do you think they've noticed a shift, if you had any feedback or any evidence that the vacancy that you're all now fully aligned with everything that you're doing behind those three values, yeah. 

Harry Lambert  15:49  
So there was a lot of guesswork before. So before we made all these changes over the last couple of years, like you said, it was a one man band sort of thing, whether it was our marketing or a messaging the sessions, it was all a lot of guesswork. There wasn't any alignment. It was just me trying to be the best that we could be, and I wasn't really sure who we were or how to behave, or how to act, or how to encourage our coaches to basically, it was just like, oh, just, just do what I'm doing, you know? Because, because internally, I had energy care and detail without knowing it. And for me to be able to voice that to all of our team members is is really easy. Before it was just like, Oh, I just Just have a look what I'm doing and try and do a little bit of that yourself. But, but basically what I was trying to say was, get in line with the with the company values, which we now know are these three things. So yeah, it just makes it makes everything more streamlined and easier and sorry, yeah, to go back to your question, we get lots of comments from old previous clients who have maybe moved on, or they're now too old for our products, or they've grown up. We get a lot of comments about how different the business looks, how streamlined it looks. And they don't say the words energy, care in detail, but it they they're they're saying those sorts of things. They're saying, Oh, you look you look like you're taking more care in your marketing, and you look like you you're more detailed in your approach to your sign ups. And everything that we do is is is now coming across in both internally and externally as well. We are getting a lot of comments from current and previous customers. 

James Brooker  17:29  
That's the sign that it's it's starting to bear fruit when, when your customers are aware and cognizant of that change in mindset and that real focus on on the key areas, going back to sort of thinking, thinking internally. Now you spoke about sort of introducing those values during the recruitment process and during performance management. How have your team found that sort of shift in focus to really dialing in on those, those three values of Have you had any pushback? Have you had any resistance to it at all? 

Harry Lambert  17:57  
I feel like it just makes it more fair. It's it's more fair for everybody because it's so clear. So in our performance reviews for the coaches, there's three headings, energy, care and detail, and then there's lots of tick boxes underneath there, which incorporate how they can show energy in the session, how they can show care or detail. And it's just very clear and like I said, fair for them in terms of pushback, not not at all, because it just makes so much sense. It just makes so much sense for for us to use those as criteria for our either session planning or our performance reviews. All of our team at the moment are all new team members that got on board after this was put in place, so they don't know any different. So from the moment we did the interview process to now they're working with us in a full time contracted position or part time positions. They all just got on board with it straight away, because it was already set within the business. 

James Brooker  19:03  
And how do you in terms of sort of the ongoing use of it? How do you find it helps with performance management? So I know a massive bug bear is getting regular, consistent performance management in place, particularly of coaches, where they might only do one or two evenings a week. How, how do you find having a clear set of values to kind ofsort of manage against has has been useful in in building that, that consistent approach to it. 

Harry Lambert  19:29  
Well, like you said, the word consistent, there is just, is just the be all and end all of it. It's just so consistent I can either in the session, so if I'm in the session, watching them, I can just say, more energy, more detail, more care, though. It's just very easy to say they need to add more of that in if it's missing within the session or afterwards. It's very easy to to maybe watch back a video review that we took of a coach and say, Look, this is where you show in the detail. I feel like you could have shown a little bit more energy in this moment. As you can see, the session looks a little bit flat and the energy isn't there. So I just feel like those three things, and I know I keep saying it, but it just makes it more fair, more consistent, and it's just makes the business so much easier to it's just one less thing. It makes everything less wishy washy and lots of less guesswork. It was something we never really had in the in the first 12 years of the business. We never had these these values. And actually, it was quite hard to have those conversations with team members without having them come to light, without having those three values to mark them against. It wasn't really fair, you know, I'm asking them to do certain things, and I've not really set the boundaries in the it's like moving the goal posts all the time. They just don't know where to score, how big the goals are, what they want in those certain moments. And I just feel like we've just laid out, mark the pitch. Out, marked the goals. Sorry for the football analogy, but we the they just know where everything is and and how clear it is for that to happen. 

James Brooker  21:11  
And what? What advice would you give to a children's activity provider who has never really focused on it? They've kind of just gone their own way, sort of made up as they go along, done it based on their gut, based on intuition, and haven't really sort of delved into this area of branding and values. What? What? What advice would you give if they're looking to kind of start the journey that the you're already well, well down the way on? 

Harry Lambert  21:37  
I mean, I definitely recommend it. We it was something that I never thought we needed. We ran the business for 12 years, and we were successful. We were always really busy. We were well known in the area, so in the first 12 years, without these values, we were actually very busy, but it was quite hard work. There was lots of second guessing, and is this best way to do it? Are we getting the right message out here? There was a lot of guesswork for me and a lot of creativity as well. So I was trying to be constantly creative, trying to come up with new messaging and new branding ideas and different ways to come across to customers. And actually, when we got our branding done in terms of messaging and wording and styles of fonts and everything like that. When we got everything aligned, it just takes all the guesswork out, and you've got a sole focus. And whenever you come up with an idea very quickly, you just look across, does that match up with the team values? Does that match up with our branding? If the answer is yes, run with it. Just go with it. If it doesn't, then you need to re readjust and reassess. But I definitely recommend it's one of those things that you don't really understand the power of until you've got it going on in the first 12 years of the business. I didn't really see the importance. I had a lot on my on my plate at the time, but if I'd have had this going forward, it would have changed a lot for me going I'd have felt like I had a business instead of a job. So it's one of those things that you don't really understand, and you have to just take people's word for it that they do have great value, and it is a great added asset within the business to have branding and values and team ethos and purposes and missions and all that sort of thing. It just makes and takes out the guesswork, and you start to feel like a really fully fledged business. 

James Brooker  23:35  
Yeah, I think, I think that's a really important point to make, because, you know, in the children's activity sector, everybody has not got enough time. But the one thing I hear from every single organization that I speak to is, Oh, I haven't got enough time to do that, which is completely valid. It's an incredibly busy to work in. But I think certainly finding the time to step away and go, Okay, well, why do we actually do what we do, what is it that's most important to us in the service we provide young people will make that easier, and you'll get time back further down the road, which certainly, think is what you found as as time has wore on, is that you've got that structure and that consistency, so that it's not all guesswork. You can still use your gut and still use intuition to make decisions, but you've got that backdrop. I describe it as freedom within a framework, and I think building that framework, especially as you're growing, bringing on new coaches, is going to help keep the real essence of what makes you special on a bigger scale, 

Harry Lambert  24:34  
those words you just use then really resonate with me as a person, freedom within a framework. 

Harry Lambert  24:39  
That is just the way I love to work. As soon as we built this framework, because a lot of, you know, being self employed, and a lot of like you mentioned, it was a one man band. So I was doing everything within the business because nobody else could do it. You know, I had created systems and processes that nobody could really get involved.

Harry Lambert  24:59  
Involved in because they were so intricate and detailed using so many different systems that nobody else could be a part of it. Or at least, I felt that way. But now, having everything in place that we've got now, even in terms of love admin and all the values and the branding, it just means other people can come on board and then get on board much quicker and understand everything that I want and need, whereas they were guessing before. If I asked somebody to plan a session for us in in in one of our coaching sessions, it would be very broad and a lot of guesswork, but now we've got all these systems in place. It just helps them get on board in a bigger way, and helps me delegate tasks. It helps our team take tasks off my plate so I can concentrate on growing the business. All these sorts of things allowed other people to get on board in some of my roles much easier and much quicker. 

James Brooker  25:57  
Yeah, yeah, no. And I think that's that's a massive plus point for for a growing business is having having that freedom, but also having the framework there to use as a guide for people to work upon.

James Brooker  26:12  
So we've, we've spoken a lot about the positive impacts that implementing these values and really also stripping those values back to the core essentials. Has has been for you, but talk to me briefly about the challenges you faced when you looking to implement those clearly defined values. What's not gone so well?

Harry Lambert  26:34  
Well, the fact that we didn't know our initial values was a was a big deal. Having taken the extra time to revisit was probably a good idea, and I wouldn't have done that without the step to success, you know, push. We would have just left our team values as they are, and nobody would have known them within the business they were, they were just unimportant. So I feel like having a little re revalue and re evaluate what's going on in terms of the values. Was great. That was perfect for us. I actually felt being quite creative myself in terms of everything that we did within the business. I've always had a creative background. The one thing that I would say was initially, I found it difficult to be very structured. You know, we only use these colors. Now, we only use this. This is the messaging that we put across. But actually, that's just building a brand. And it did take, it took me a couple of months to get that in my head and get across with, actually, we don't need to be super creative and reinvent the wheel every time we need to put a post out, we don't need to, you know, redesign all of our leaflets all the time with a completely different vibe. You know, building a brand. It took me a while to understand that actually, we are building a brand here, and this is how it should be done. I was, I was thinking, Oh, that one looks a little bit similar to last time. And, you know, this is the same sort of thing we're putting out again. Is it going to get boring and people are going to start ignoring it? Are we going to become white noise? But actually, it just solidifies the business in people's perceptions and starts to build that brand, baby. So, yeah, I found that peculiar when, when we first started and got on board with everything? 

James Brooker  28:22  
Yeah, I think that that's certainly a difficult process when you're used to kind of working in a very free form creative manner, and obviously that there is always the risk of content becoming becoming stale if it's not refreshed. But I think again, it goes back to this kind of catch phrase, almost, of freedom within a framework your brand should be your framework of this is the logo. These are the colors that we use. But within that, you've got the freedom to then craft content marketing stuff, to suit the occasion, to suit the event, to suit the class, to suit the time of year, that can be different and can engage people and can grab people in so really, the values just act as that guiding kind of quarterback type role. 

James Brooker  29:07  
You've still got the variety of plays you can make to score the touchdown, moving way to a different type of football analogy for you. How dare you the wrong type? 

Harry Lambert  29:15  
Yes, exactly. 

James Brooker  29:17  
So yeah, I think that's that's a really interesting thing to look at. And I think as well what you were saying around revisiting it and not just settling on the first time you do it as being terminal, being final, that it is what it is, I think it's always useful to revisit those things. So by all means, go for it. Put some values together that are important to you, get them out there, see how they work. But if they don't work, don't, don't give up on it. Don't just think, Oh, well, sorry. We'll just go back to what we've always done and just make it up as we go along. But revisit it. Look how you can tweak it. Look how you can refine it and and change it, and sort of make small, small little adjustments. And you will eventually unlock, I think.

James Brooker  30:00  
Uh, the way that works best for you, but you certainly won't, won't get that the first time of asking, 

Harry Lambert  30:05  
no, definitely. I feel like the revisit was great. 

Harry Lambert  30:08  
And you can be a bit stubborn sometimes and think, Well, actually, we sat down in a team meeting. We spent all day thinking about this. This is something that we've got down on paper now. It's on, it's on our learning scripts. It's all you know, within our contracts, within the teams, and you feel like it's within the business now and you can't change it. But actually, it just made so much sense to simplify everything. And the revisit was great in terms of being less stubborn about what we do. And I felt like, Oh no, but we've when you mentioned it, it was something I hadn't thought of. And I thought, oh, no, we did spend time doing these team values. 

Harry Lambert  30:46  
And you know where I've spoke about all the team to the team about it. So it was a bit of a not a bitter pill to swallow, but it was just something that needed to be done. I said, Look, it makes so much sense to do this, so why are we being stubborn about it? Let's just get it changed and and rebuild. 

Harry Lambert  31:04  
What on? On the bit. It's a bit like an extension, isn't it? You're not rebuilding. You just sort of adding an extension, which makes sense. 

James Brooker  31:11  
Yeah, yeah, no. And agree. And I think, I think the the word you used there is critical, which is stubbornness. And I think quite often you can stick with ideas that are not quite working because of the effort you put in to come up with them. 

James Brooker  31:23  
But I think taking that step back and being objective with it is, is really, really key in going, Yeah, I did put a lot of effort into this. I did believe it was the right thing at the time. Actually, there might be a better way of doing this so and removing that stubbornness from from the equation, I think, I think, certainly has helped in the discussions that we've had, but also in on a wider scale, is it is a really, really useful thing to kind of get past as well, just really difficult, particularly when it's your baby, because you're you're so emotionally and personally attached to it, and actually, you should never look to remove that. Quite a lot of people will will say that as a business grows, you need to remove the emotion and remove the feeling that it's your baby. I personally don't believe you should. I think you should always have that. I think you should just evolve with it. And if you can remove stubbornness and have a little bit of objectivity when you need to, you can still keep that passion and still keep that that emotion, because at the end of the day, that's why you're doing what you're doing. 

Harry Lambert  32:19  
Yeah, to go back on one of your previous questions about stubbornness and difficulties, having all this in place, like I mentioned, gives all the other team members the ability to get involved in the business more, because there are, like you said, that framework in place, which was hard for me at the time, because, you know, having done it all previously, and you know, having A standard, in a level which we like things done. One of the things I did found difficult was actually offloading these tasks, but eventually understanding that actually we've got the right framework in place to pass these tasks on now, and you know, they can succeed in doing them just as the same way that I would have done was, a bit difficult for somebody that came from a one man band where, you know, I literally did everything within the business. 

Harry Lambert  33:07  
You know, is it's nice now looking back thinking, wow, I can just pass these tasks on. We've got all this framework in place which allows them to get these, to get the tasks done. So, you know, it's nice looking back knowing that we've got this in place. But initially it was a bit like, oh, but, you know, in hindsight, it's great, 

James Brooker  33:27  
yeah. And I think what you've described there is is really key to to always bear in mind is that it's not a kind of a light switch thing. You're not going to come in one day and just change it all and suddenly delegate everything and have really clear values and and take the approach that you've just described. But it's going to be something that evolves over time, and changing changing mindsets, particularly when you've been doing things a certain way for a long period of time, takes time itself, and it should take time. It's it's right that it takes time, and it's right that it evolves over time, because then that makes sure that you get it right. So yeah, I think the way in which that's kind of materialized for you guys is feels from, from an outsider perspective, feels like it's been right, feels like it's been organic and kind of natural in in the sort of life cycle of of OTB, it feels great. Um, whenever people ask me, how's business going? How are you feeling? 

Harry Lambert  34:22  
It's all positive. It's all you know now we've got this framework in place. It it allows me to enjoy the business more and accept the growth and the changes and everything. So whenever people ask me how the business is going, how's your plans? It's always positive. And previously to all the changes that would have been made, I might have felt like a bit of a stuck in a raw situation. But you know, now, if people ask me the question, I just feel great about what we're doing and where we're going. 

James Brooker  34:51  
And I think that ultimately is is the most important thing, if you can feel like that, running, running your business and the kids are.

James Brooker  35:00  
Evening sessions happy and coaches are happy, really, that is the key. That's that's the holy grail that that you'll get into. So that's kind of a perfect place to finish up on, really. So thank you very much, Harry, for your for your time. 

James Brooker  35:12  
It's been, been great having you've been, been a really great, really great discussion that we've had. 

Harry Lambert  35:17  
Thanks for having me. 

James Brooker  35:18  
If you want to hear more guided growth tips each month. Subscribe to our step2success podcast. You'll also get the marketing advice from Abi every month as well. Or have a look on the step to success section of the LoveAdmin website for more information about how you can get involved and have more of these workshops yourself and sign up the training program as as Harry's done. Thank you very much for listening, and I will see you next time you.