Open House Concepts and Women's Suffrage

 Episode 104 of I Hate Talking unpacks the real meaning of “pro and con,” tracing it back to the Latin pro et contra and the separate root contra meaning against or opposite. The hosts compare this with the earlier discussion of “convivial,” then use the language lesson as a springboard into a lively debate about open-concept houses, why they became popular, and the practical tradeoffs of living in one big shared space.

The conversation blends etymology with home design, family life, and a few conspiracy theories about builders, social norms, and even surveillance. By the end, the episode circles back to the everyday tension between structure and openness, privacy and togetherness, and the very human habit of weighing the pros and cons before making a decision.

Keywords: pro et contra, pros and cons, contra meaning, open concept house, open house, closed house, family structure, home design, privacy vs togetherness, conspiracy theories, Frank Lloyd Wright, open floor plan, family hospitality, I Hate Talking podcast, conversational podcast.

Transcript

I Hate Talking: 0:29

Welcome to episode 104 of I Hate Talking. Hi everyone. So like we alluded to last time in our previous episode, we already have a word or phrase of the episode and probably a topic as well, OK, pro and con. All right, I really want to know about this because I always thought con was negative. Like, what's the cons? And then you say all the negative things. Well, that's true when you use it in the phrase pro or con. All right, so tell me how it is a different con than the one that we learned about last week. Right, so the word last week was convivial, and that was the particular Latin or Greek root, which I'm now forgetting if it was Greek or Latin. I guess Latin, right? That means with. I guess we'll have to validate that because if we've forgotten, certainly our listeners have forgotten. All right, let's check. Yes, Latin. So con, when used with a variety of words means. Together or with. So there you go. OK, so, but it's spelled the same, but it's a different word for a pro and con. Right, because the word for pro or con, with con being sort of the negative aspect of a particular decision or something, is not simply the word con, but it comes from the word contra. Oh, OK, like contradictory -- or -- contraband. Hm. Contraindicated. So there you go. Yes, so con by itself is with or together, but contra. Means against or. A negative particular thing, I guess we can define it exactly. And I still have not had time to look at what happened to our favorite Oxford language dictionary. Yeah, I haven't looked it up. I don't know. I'll have to do that. Our listeners have not either because I've not gotten any particular feedback from our listeners. So if you have time to research that, you can let us know. Yes, contra is a Latin term meaning against, opposite, or in contrast to. There's a phrase supposedly that says, quote, contra the rules, against the rules, against the rules. I've never heard contra the rules. I've always, I've heard against the rules, like you play a card or something and you say, that's against the rules. Right, I'm trying to think, it sounds familiar, so I'm trying to place it. And then some of the common words with contra are the ones that we already said. Contradict, contrary, contraindicate, contraband. Also contrast. Comes from the root word contra. OK, I mean, that makes sense, but I definitely never thought of it that way. Yes, so perhaps that's something that we can establish and our listeners can establish as well, is that when you're playing a board game or a card game and somebody quote unquote breaks the rules, you can say, That's contra, the rules. OK, you can start it and see what people do. I think people would do a double take, like, wait, what? I be confused. Perhaps so. It is interesting that Contra is. Against opposite and con is with -- or -- together. Yeah, I think that's why last week I got confused because it just seems so different. But if you said that's contra against the rules, it sounds like you. Didn't finish the word. Maybe it's just cause I'm so used to like contraindicated and yeah, all those other words, but contra sounds like. A shorthand or like you. Haven't finished the word. Contradictory, contra, you know, like, it's always a bigger word. That's true. So for our particular phrase, pros and cons, it comes from the Latin phrase pro et contra. Meaning literally for and against. So, pro comes directly from Latin pro, meaning for on behalf of or in favor of, while con is a short for contra, meaning against opposite or in opposition. OK. So there you go. It probably would make more sense instead of saying, what are the pros and cons, you could say, what are the pro et contra. Pro contra Why would that make more sense? It just means You're going back to like the original phraseology. And then you're avoiding any of the particular Things that we've encountered even in our discussions on whether K means with and together or Opposite and against. So we could say, what are the pros and contra? What are the pros and contras? -- There -- you go. Yeah, I guess it's probably maybe it's just because we aren't used to it. That just doesn't sound right. Pros and cons. Yeah, I mean, English likes to shorten things. So That is probably why. Yeah, it's all the same letters, 3 letters for pro, 3 letters for con. I don't know. I think it sounds nice. So do you like? To make pros and cons lists. I suppose I do like to make pros and cons list. So, sometimes I find that the pros and cons list is that the pros. are listed out and then the cons are just like the opposite of it. So like a pro would be for moving, living next to the beach, and the con is Not living next to the beach. That's like a very simplified example, but sometimes when I find myself making pros and cons lists, it's just. I'll have a list of things and they all fit in. The pro and con and then like the opposite side of the pro and con list is just The opposite of it. It's not like distinctly different. Interesting. So like if you're doing. Should I have dessert tonight? You're like, pro, I like ice cream. Con. I wouldn't get ice cream. Like that's what you would do. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, so I think you've already made up your mind then. I usually do make up my mind pretty quickly. Get the ice cream, move to the beach, right? If the answer, if the con is just the opposite, I won't do that, then. Right. Perhaps a better example would be like on the ice cream example, pro on. Skipping the ice cream, the pro would be like, be healthy, and the con would be like get fat. But they're like so close that like they're the same, so. I do make pros and cons lists, but sometimes I find it easier just to make a list. OK, I don't make pros and cons lists. I I think maybe last time I did was in junior high. In a different way, but similar to you, I think I already make up my mind often on those sort of things. And so I don't need to think about the negative part of it. I'm just like, do I like ice cream? I do. Do I like living by the beach? I do. But my, if I was gonna make it, if I was gonna make a list, it would be different than yours. It'd be like for the movie, do I want to live by the beach? I get to live by the beach, check. And then my negative would be not living near friends. That's true, yes, see, that would be a true pro and con list then, or pro et contra. Yes. So what are the pros and cons of an open concept house? Like structurally open concept. Well, that actually is part of the conspiracy theory is that a pro for the building company is that they have to utilize far less materials and therefore can sell a house at the same quote unquote retail value while expending far less material costs. Is it really less though, because they have to make sure the wall is structurally sound. To bear all the weight, right? Well, they have to do that anyway. Right, but if they have pillars or walls, there are probably certain pillars and beams that have more structural integrity versus what they would perhaps use for When they are building walls that partition more of the downstairs or upstairs or whatever the case may be, but In terms of the overall costs, I'm sure there's. Increased beams and pillars and things are far less than actually building a wall and other partitions between all the rooms. So you think open concept is a scam that builders created and hired people like Chip and Joanna Gaines to market it. So that they wouldn't have to build extra walls. That's sort of like the friendly conspiracy theory. That's like the nice one. That's the, the positive outlook on why. As like a secondary reason that open concept houses became so popular. Like the quote unquote normal explanation is like, that is what people demanded and that is what people built, and therefore that is what they got, supply and demand, but The friendly conspiracy theory is that it was because builders wanted to save money, increase margins, and Basically create these and sell these and advertise these things as like a benefit to people, so that they would have to expend less cost to build the same house for retail price value. And that's the friendly version, Correct? OK, -- what's the unfriendly version -- then? The unfriendly version is that there were powers that be that forced the open concept house upon the populace in order to tear down the fabric of societal norms because by decreasing the amount of privacy that one had. That it creates more conflict and strife within the home because you have less areas that you can have privacy and then therefore everybody sees everything that everyone is doing. And that there is also an aspect of the keeping up with the Joneses that if everybody is coming to visit your house, that in this open concept, you have to have everything neat and organized, and that could be very difficult to do if you are using the kitchen to prepare a meal or things of that nature for the guests that you're having, that you will have increased conflict and Anxiety about those particular things in an open concept house. That's interesting because I feel like the opposite. Like you're saying that you'd have more strife because you guys are together. Like, but that's more pleasant to be together than everyone in separate rooms, cause then you're just apart. Right, but perhaps there needs to be a time when you are apart, and then you can rejoin together in the common room when the time is appropriate. Instead of being forced upon being together all the time in an open concept house, I suppose so. I don't know of, at least in my life, how often I need to be apart. I guess I just, I'm not like super private or secretive or anything. Says the person that bought a chair specifically so you can sit in a different room. No, -- I had to do that to get away around your -- rules of eating on the carpet. So, so in our new home, we made the roll, we got a new couch and we have carpet, uh, like most white carpet in the living room. So we made the rule, no food or drinks in the living room on the couch or on the carpet. Well, our living room opens up into this area that likes where we do our arts and crafts and the kids have their school stuff in there, but you can also see the TV from it. So I bought myself like a lounge chair. It's like the perfect size to curl up in my feet fit perfectly tucked into it. And I can sit there and so it's a loophole, cause it's not carpet, it's my chair, so it's not the fancy big couch, and so I can have my coffee. In the morning and just sit there and still watch TV or still participate with the family, but I'm on the hardwood and not the carpet. Well, there you go. I like my loophole. Indeed. So it's not because of the open concept house thing and having your own private sitting area. It's just so that you can still participate and have your snacks and coffee. It's, yeah, I think it's the best of both worlds. If we didn't make the rule and Uh, if we didn't care about the white carpet or the new couch. I probably wouldn't have bought in the chair because then I would have just had my coffee on the couch. That's true. So there you go. Do you not like that I have my own sitting area now? I heard you earlier telling the kids, Where's your mom? I'm like, I'm right here, because from your angle you couldn't see me. Yeah, what is behind the wall when you're sitting in one of the couches, so. Cannot see that particular sitting area from all vantage points. So, but I could hear you the whole time. Well, there you go. So I was able to be like, I'm right here. Yes. That's another conspiracy theory about the open concept house that's probably more modernized that I don't think I particularly align with because open concept houses were popular before the advent of surveillance technology, but the fact that you can have one Alexa and it basically can hear all the things happening in your open concept house. In the first floor, that that is the reason that open concept houses were invented. So now you're getting into like fringy stuff with like time travel and like, yes, that this was preprogrammed decades in advance and things like that. So I do not particularly subscribe to that one, but that is something that people have said in the conspiracy realm. Mm, yeah, that one sounds low. When you start talking about time traveling, like they knew, they wanted to, that you'd only have one Alexa in your house. Yeah, that sounds a little wonky. That's true. If I was going to subscribe to a time traveling conspiracy theory, it would be the one where AI invented Bitcoin. And created Bitcoin so that it would make people have the need to increase their computing power for mining Bitcoin, so that it can have the basis of the AGI in the future. OK. All right, let's talk about that later. Let's do an episode about conspiracy theories later. You can come up with your best couple and I'll come up with my favorite ones. That's true. Well, that's something that people do, right? They have their conspiracy theory parties and bring their favorite ones and have PowerPoint presentations and stuff. I wanna do it so bad. I, uh, sent it to my brother. I was like, man, I wanna do this. And uh we don't live near each other, so I don't know when we do it, but with summer vacation coming up. Yeah, we're gonna see him this summer, so make everybody come up with their own conspiracy theories on vacation. Well, yeah, I guess so you have to have preplanning, I suppose, so that you have well documented proof of. The existence of said conspiracy theories. Yeah, I saw, uh, I got the idea though, and I showed it to you because I saw some people doing it on social media, and they, yeah, went all out. PowerPoints, they had like food that was appropriate. Some people have like hats that they passed out. To convince people to persuade them of their side. Ah, it's so fun. There you go. I feel like uh we're still too new here that if I invited the few people that we become friends with to a conspiracy theory party, I think we'd be weird. Like, -- we might -- or they'd be like, finally, somebody is gonna be friends with us that are already conspiracy theorists. Yeah, I guess that's true. If they were like, yes, these are our people, then we made it. That's no questions asked. That's true. There may be a few out there. We'll see So, on this particular conspiracy theory, I would potentially align to the fact that builders maybe had a little bit of an inside track in trying to push the open concept. Houses in previous decades to reduce costs. In fact, in terms of the social fabric of the family and things, probably not so much, maybe a little bit on the kitchen side of things, like the fact that the kitchen is adjacent and open to the rest of the living space is just a little bit odd, especially since, like, that was not a thing ever in history. Like, you would have your kitchen separate from your dining area. And your drawing room and so on and so forth. So much so that sometimes in the previous centuries, you would have a separate building altogether for cooking and conducting all your kitchen activities. Do you know why I always thought The open concept became a thing was because of the opposite of what you just said, because I think women nowadays, like back in the day, they stayed home and they cooked, and that was like their job, right? Or the servants cooked, and they weren't supposed to mingle with owners. And then women got more freedom, and they got more independence and uh wanted to be part more. Of a peer in the family with this husband and just like cooking and serving them. So I think they didn't want to stay ostracized in the kitchen by themselves. I think that's why I've always thought, at least that's why the open concept kind of became more of a thing, is instead of being left alone to work, they were able to still be with the group. And part of the. You know, and then everyone can help out or at least if they're working by themselves, at least they're still part of the whole, not separate by themselves. Interesting. So, open concept houses are a direct output of women's suffrage movements. That's what you're saying. That's exactly what I'm saying. I suppose so, but that would have happened at least. Two or three generations after some of the movements with women's rights and voting and things like that. 1920, I think is when. 1920 is when women, women got the right to vote. Yes, it was around then, 1929 sticks in my mind, but maybe thinking of something else with perhaps some Women's rights movements, marches and things like that. In previous localities, yes, so I suppose you're right, 1920 was when the 19th Amendment was ratified. So there you go. I don't know why 1929 sticks in my mind, but Perhaps 1929 was like everybody else followed suit, Canada. Ecuador, United Kingdom, Puerto Rico, there's like a lot of stuff that happened in 1929. I don't think that's why I'm thinking that, but. It was probably related to some financial crisis cause I get our kids' birthdays messed up with various financial crises of the past years. Yes, some of our kids, I don't know if y'all ever know their birthdays, but I was looking it up and they were saying that for open concept, some people accredit it, I guess it started becoming a thing in 1950, so it's only a 30 years after. You know, the beginning, woman's suffrage. Uh, I guess some people accredit uh Frank Lloyd Wright. The architect with his uh open concept. I see, yes. And that was like -- what's -- his famous house Falling Waters or whatever. That was like his famous house, right? -- Frank Lloyd -- Wright. I know Frank Lloyd Wright because my one of my favorite YouTubers. Stayed at one of his Airbnbs and uh Ryan Trahan, I'm, the kids like him and I actually enjoy watching him a lot. And him and his wife are into the architecture. That's true. Yeah, one of his most recent videos was like, laugh out loud, funny. For an adult, so, and it's appropriate for kids too. I tell, I tell lots of people to watch him. Y'all should watch him if you're looking for a family friendly. So, it's a very wholesome and yeah, I think he's humorous. That's true. His train trip across America was laugh out loud funny. Falling Water is the famous house designed by architect Frank Lloyd Wright, built over a waterfall in Mill Run, Pennsylvania. I don't recall when I visited there it being very open concept. You went to his house, yeah, I falling water. It's like a museum now. It's like a historical monument. I mean, there's certain were like large open rooms and everything, but it also had like separate rooms with like A library and. Sitting room and things like that. But I guess when you search it, and I don't really remember seeing this, but there is like the grand room. It is an open space in the main house that has no load bearing walls. So, there you go. See, I wouldn't even really think of that as a room that you would have as like a family room. I would see it more as a design for a party space, per se. I think that's part of, right, when you have a house nowadays, most people, and you have people over, it is like for a party space, right? Like, When you have smaller rooms, you have to either invite fewer people or people are spread out. In different rooms and can't all interact. That's true. I suppose so. So you have to have your house as a party house is what you're saying. Yeah, I think I said last week I want my house to be a party house. That's the open house, so I guess you need an open house concept to have an open house party house. Maybe. Well, there you go, but I do understand what you're saying about, uh, the con of it being keeping everything clean. Because it is hard when it's one big room, or mostly where everywhere you look, you have stuff and you're living there. So you can't just have a room where you shove things in your messy area. That's true. Or you have a messy area, but it's not an open concept, right? I guess so. Well, there you go. So that's the key to avoiding any particular disadvantages with the open concept house is that you still have to have some room that is closed. Some junk room, huh? Junk drawer, junk room, yes. -- Sounds -- good. Well there you go. So those are perhaps some of the pros and cons of open concept houses and perhaps some of the related conspiracy theories or even unrelated conspiracy theories. So you, our listener can let us know if you enjoy open concept houses or not or if you feel that they have particular pros and cons. Because according to some surveys, 49% of Americans do not like open concept houses as of recent years. Oh wow. Hmm. So, still the majority like them, but not by much. No, well, that's just hard cause everyone took down if they didn't have an open concept house, many people took down their walls to have an open concept house. Now, how are you gonna do, what are you gonna do selling those homes? You start building walls back. They might, I suppose you might have to. So if you did enjoy this episode, you can always like, share, subscribe, and it's helpful even if you just share it with one other person, and maybe that person does not like open concepts, and they will enjoy this episode. Or they like open concepts and they'll have some insight about what perhaps drove that and they're just at the mercy of the builders and the powers that be. Yeah, or if you don't have an opinion one way or another, but you like women's lib and you want women to have the right to vote and be part of the family, not just cooking. And be pro open concept. And don't share it with any crack people. Right. Well, they don't want women to vote. Like that's legitimately their position. All right, we'll talk about that another time. Well, we have many topics ahead of us, I suppose. So, from your friends at I hate talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.