Scratchwerk ^EDU
"Scratchwerk ^Edu," hosted by Ronnie King, CEO of Scratchwerk Tech and founder of the MyVillage Project, is a dynamic podcast at the nexus of Black communities, technology, business, education, and current events. Each episode dives deep into the role of emerging technologies in promoting equity, enhancing workforce development, and reshaping education.
Join Ronnie as he explores how technology can be leveraged to uplift and empower marginalized communities through insightful discussions with experts, activists, and innovators. From the practicalities of tech entrepreneurship to the impact of community-led initiatives, "Scratchwerk Edu" is an essential resource for anyone interested in the intersection of technology and social change.
Learn about the success of tech incubators such as "Coding in Color", which has trained over 2,000 students in emerging skills and secured over $800k in funding to support young Black tech entrepreneurs, and discover how initiatives like the MyVillage Project Community Fund has united organizations and disbursed over $4M to support 220+ Black-led nonprofits across the country. Tune in to be informed, inspired, and involved in reshaping a more equitable tech future.
Scratchwerk ^EDU
Conversation with Judge Brian Davis - Uplifting Communities with Judicial Reality
Join us as we sit down with the Honorable Judge Brian Jordan Davis as he shares his remarkable journey from aspiring dentist to federal judge, highlighting the pivotal role of community support and mentorship in his career. His candid stories reveal the perseverance required to overcome obstacles and the significance of engaging in community service and leadership. Together, we dive into the generational differences in approaches to activism and the critical power of voting. Judge Davis's insights shine a light on the ongoing struggle for social change and the importance of collective political action, particularly in the education system.
Our conversation takes an intriguing turn as we contemplate the impact of artificial intelligence on the legal field, offering a glimpse into the future of AI integration in legal processes. Judge Davis reflects on the necessity of coalition-building and compromise in politics, emphasizing how educating children about voting can influence government decisions. This episode is a testament to the transformative power of faith, community involvement, and personal resilience in shaping a brighter future.
Hey, Judge Davis, can you hear us?
Speaker 2:I can hear you. I'm trying to get my screen situated and get my camera up. You know I'm still challenged when it comes to this technology, but I'm a slow but sure learner.
Speaker 3:I love that. I need to adopt that.
Speaker 2:How y'all doing.
Speaker 3:Good, how are you?
Speaker 2:Doing well, thank you.
Speaker 3:It's actually good to see your face.
Speaker 2:And likewise, ronnie, tell me a little bit about your podcast, because you know Tia extended the invitation and attached your name to it. So how could I say no, I don't know much about it. What are you?
Speaker 1:doing. You know, honestly, it was. I started it like November of last year and I was like man, you know, I just have some thoughts sometimes around education and technology and a bunch of other things that I know we talk about a lot in these board meetings and just small conversations that I'm always having. I'm like, you know, why not put it in a format, that kind of share with others in a way? So yeah, it was really just a hobby, just a hobby, something to put on the side. And also, too, I think I believe that in the future, there's going to be more and more examples of of us having digital representations of ourselves in a lot of ways to say, hey look, this is what your grandmother would have said and exactly how she would sound saying it, and I think you know if that is going to be the future. I don't know if I felt like I had enough recorded instances of how I think about some of this stuff. Right, Right, Right Opportunity to do a little bit of both. You mean digitally recorded? Yeah, Digitally recorded?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Both. You mean digitally recorded? Yeah, digitally recorded, yeah, absolutely. You know. It's interesting that you mentioned that because the court system has an archivist and they like to keep track of the judges' papers and just artifacts from their tenure, and I've got a truckload of stuff that I don't think they know what they're asking for. You know, and it's not all work related. A lot of it is community related, you know, and I throw it in a drawer and one day who's going to go through that paper?
Speaker 1:They're going to go through it. They're going to go through that paper. They're going to go through it.
Speaker 2:The digital generation is going to say no, I'm sorry, if it's not electronic, we can forget it. But in that same vein, I think they are trying to digitize this stuff because storage and ease of access and use is just facilitated by it. So yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, yeah, we'll get there one day. You're going to have a virtual reality, judge Davis, that somebody is going to learn about. So, instead of them opening up a book and reading about you, they're going to be able to walk through an experience and you sit up talking based on those documents. I don't know, I think we'll get there one day.
Speaker 2:On those documents? I don't know. I think we'll get there one day. Well, you know, I've seen some science fiction productions that suggest that. You know and when. If you think about it and you're probably not old enough to remember this, dick Tracy was a comic character who had a watch in which he could see people and talk with them. You know, it's basically what our iPhones are today and you know that was all fantasy when I was a child and you know, here we are living through it.
Speaker 3:So anyway, and tell me this Did you say? You said yes because I attached Ronnie King's name to it. I just wanted to clarify.
Speaker 2:No, no you didn't hear me, kevin, you didn't listen, Kevin. I said because you asked and because you attacked Ronnie's angel.
Speaker 3:That was what I said to you.
Speaker 1:How did you?
Speaker 3:is that how you heard it, Ronnie?
Speaker 1:I'm going to pull on my ego a little bit. I felt like he said because I was going to be attacked. He said his frat brother was going to be on here with him.
Speaker 4:No, but it was because you asked.
Speaker 2:It was because you asked. I know I prefaced it with that.
Speaker 3:No, no, I know All right. So hello everybody. Welcome back to the Scratch Work EDU podcast Today, where we have Judge Brian Davis. The Honorable Brian Jordan Davis, currently serving as a United States District Court Judge, middle District of Florida. Brian J Davis was appointed by President Barack Obama on December 26, 2013.
Speaker 3:Judge Davis, previously a state circuit court judge, served on the civil, family, juvenile and probate benches in the historic courthouse on Amelia Island. He also previously served on the family, juvenile and civil benches in his hometown, jacksonville, florida. He has been a judge for 30 years. Judge Davis earned a bachelor's degree from Princeton University in 1974, and in 1980, a Juris Doctorate from the University of Florida, serving on law review and receiving many honors. He was an active member of the Black Law Students Association and served as a mentor and tutor to incoming students. Judge Davis practiced in the civil and criminal arenas as a prosecutor in the Fourth Judicial Circuit State Attorney's Office, serving as the first African-American chief assistant.
Speaker 3:Judge Davis has served on the Florida Supreme Court's governance work group, civil jury instruction, children's court improvement, treatment-based drug court steering and trial court, performance and accountability committees, and the Florida Bar's Legal Needs of Children Commission. In 2002, he was named Judge of the Year by the American Board of Trial Advocates. Judge Davis has actively volunteered with Leadership Jacksonville, the National Conference for Community and Justice, urban League, naacp, omega, psi, phi Fraternity, jacksonville Community Council, hubbard House Help Center, pace Center for Girls, onejax, the Jaguars Foundation and the Rains and Revolt Future Lawyers and Leaders Program. Judge Davis chaired the Mayor's 1999 Domestic Violence Task Force, causing significant changes in the treatment of domestic violence victims and cases in Duval County. He is an active supporter of urban scouting, which brings scouting to children without cost.
Speaker 3:In 2002, judge Davis co-chaired JCCI's Beyond the Talk Improving Race Relations, a study resulting in an annual race relations progress report for Jacksonville, and in 2009, he co-chaired Project Breakthrough, a community leadership initiative against racism. In 2008, judge Davis helped establish Nassau County's Mental Health Court, then only one of 10 in Florida, where he presided over a docket designed to prevent the mentally ill from being incarcerated, ill from being incarcerated. He has served as a Community Foundation trustee since 2013 and as a board member of the Jacksonville Public Education Fund from 2008 to 2022. He is a former executive board member of the North Florida Council Boy Scouts of America and currently serves on its advisory board but, most importantly, in September 2024, board, but most importantly, in September 2024, davis celebrated 48 years of marriage to Tanya, with whom he worships in Ebenezer United Methodist Church. Judge Davis is the grandfather to five offspring, of two children, brian and Cicely. Welcome to the Scratchburg EDU podcast. Welcome to the Scratchberg EDU podcast. The Honorable Judge Davis, how are you?
Speaker 2:I am well, I am glad to say Ms Leathers Tia, happy to be on this side of the green, as people say.
Speaker 3:That's true, and we're happy you're on this side of the green too, because we are so excited to learn so much from you and, as you know, I have known you all my life, and so to be able to sit and ask these questions and share this information with other people will be really exciting. Now I'm going to tell you where I'm starting, however, because some information I did not know was shared on social media the other day about what you really wanted to do. So we are sitting here speaking to a federal judge who actually wanted to be a dentist. Yes, that's true. Ok, well, you want to know more about?
Speaker 2:I do, you know, I really think it was based on. You know, in the African-American community in Jacksonville that I grew up with there were not a lot of how should I describe it? And who dressed well, and so as a child I looked up to some of the people in the community who manifest those characteristics, who were doing well, and one of them was Dr Jimmy Henderson. His office was right there on King's Road. For many, many years he was actually my dentist and I got to know him and his family, and they lived in Floridale, if I'm not mistaken and one of the things that impressed me about him was that he's the only black person I knew in Jacksonville that had a. Well, that's not true, because Dr Schell had a pool, but he had a pool in his backyard. So you know I'm thinking well, if dentists can do that, live that kind of lifestyle, then you know, maybe I should aspire to be one.
Speaker 2:And I also had an interest. I always liked science and biology. So it wasn't inconsistent. But as fate would have and I actually got another forget I got me and my classmate Cheryl Cole. There was a thing in the Florida Times Union years ago they'd have teenagers of the week and that's probably where many people may have heard of this aspiration on my part they would do a little photo shoot and a short bio of two students every week and Cheryl and I got lifted up and in that article I said I want to be a dentist when I grow up. Well, when I got to college, organic chemistry changed my mind.
Speaker 2:And the lesson I learned is plan. Plan B's are so important in life that you know life takes turns that you don't anticipate, but you have to persevere and you know, keep the faith that you know learning and growing and doing something positive is going to be fruitful for you. So I ended up changing my major as a result and ended up majoring in psychology instead of biology or chemistry in undergraduate school, and that kind of you know laid a path towards something other than dentistry in my future.
Speaker 3:How'd you end up at Princeton?
Speaker 2:I was directed there by some people in the community with whom my father had a relationship. A Princeton graduate who my dad used to brag to I've got a bright son. He really, he really, you know, should be considered for your alma mater, for your alma mater. And JJ Daniels, who's actually one of our city's city fathers, if you will, suggested that I apply and and encouraged me and you know I ended up with pretty good grades. But, more importantly, the real reason I went was because I also aspired to go to Howard Morehouse. The University of Florida applied to a number of different schools and Princeton actually offered the most financial aid through scholarship, work, study and the like and loans. It was the best package and that was really the reason I chose to go. My parents paid very little for my education, which was, you know, a blessing for sure.
Speaker 3:Looking back on it, having gone to an Ivy League school, do you feel, does that make you proud? Do you? Would you have done that again based on the package, or did you think maybe you should have had an HBCU style?
Speaker 2:I would have done it again, based on the package.
Speaker 2:We see you style I would have done it again based on the package. You know the economics of it were just too too compelling for me to ignore. And you know I didn't really miss the HBU. I did technically miss it, but the African-American students at Princeton, because we were so small in number, coalesced and and for social purposes we would travel to Howard University and Morgan State and you know the closest African-American schools to to Princeton campus. So you know I got to dabble in that environment and also had a very rich environment at Princeton in terms of my exposure to and maintenance of some kind of cultural and social contact with our culture.
Speaker 3:So at which point did you decide I think I'm going to go to law school? When did you decide you were going to go? So you're doing psychology, I don't know what you thought you'd do with that.
Speaker 2:All you knew was it would not be organic chemistry and dentistry, right? Well, I'll tell you what actually happened. I always had the study of law in the back. Just a black community steward, but a Jacksonville community steward. He was one of the first African-Americans elected to the Jacksonville City Council. He actually was considered for mayor at one time. He was just a well-respected citizen and I knew him not only in that regard but through his volunteer activities.
Speaker 2:He was at the time the Boy Scout of America organization in the city, as were most organizations, and public facilities and the like were segregated, so there was a Black Boy Scout organization and a white Boy Scout organization. You don't know this, do you, tia? And you know? It's amazing to me how many people don't know it, but there was a camp called Camp Kual, actually dug a pool that was spring fed. It didn't have chlorinated water in it, it was, and I forget now who donated the land, but there were, like you know, scores of acres available for Boy Scouts to camp and it was. Hundreds of black boys here in Jacksonville went through this camp. There was a real intense Boy Scout movement here in Jacksonville that was led by Michael Stewart's grandfather, david Dwight, who was a World War Two veteran who brought that mentality and discipline and love of country to this organization. So it was really an enriching experience for us. But the reason I mention it in connection with Earl Johnson is that he was one of the commissioners of the organization and we would have courts of honor where merit badges that were earned and other rank advancements would be honored in a public setting at various churches. There'd be hundreds of boys and their families that would go to different churches about once every two months or so and they'd have a ceremony. It was a big deal, in a child's life at least, and Earl Johnson was the one who would chair these courts of honor. So I saw him as someone you know, who I admired, respected and, you know, thought he'd be a good role model, be someone to emulate. So that was the seed for my interest in the law.
Speaker 2:After law school I went to I piloted a payment in New York, living with an uncle right after graduate school looking for a job that I could use as a psychology degree and I finally found one in Greenwich, connecticut. It was an American can company. They made all of the cans for the beer that was sold in America. It was a huge, huge company and I was on what they call an employee relations management track, so it was like HR today. I was going to be an HR executive at some point in time.
Speaker 2:I was being groomed for that, and one of the things that it allowed me to do was to occasionally travel with the corporate lawyers who were defending cases and taking care of legal business around the country, and as I traveled with them, I came to the distinct and clear conclusion that I could do what they were doing, and I could probably do it as well, if not better, than they were doing it. So that combination of things, along with a decision that that company made to send me to a city for training that I didn't want to go to, made me say now is the time. And I left that employment and applied, along with my wife, to the University of Florida. She applied to enter the School of Education. She already had a year or two of college under her belt and I applied to start law school at the University of Florida. Apply to start law school at the University of Florida.
Speaker 1:Obviously knowing you for a while now, just seeing the way that you have, you know, really kind of fought for change in communities you know particularly black communities and uplifting folks in a variety of different ways. I know we met on the board of the Jacksonville Public Education Fund but obviously I've kind of seen you in a lot of different areas. How have you, in your opinion, kind of used your career and all the different kind of experiences that you've had to try to make a difference, you know, in the various boards and all the different community work that you're doing? I know it could be, it must be, tough kind of being a judge and doing some of that stuff. How have you tried to navigate that space from your experience?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, ronnie, I think it has been the fact that I am a lawyer that probably gave me entree to some of the opportunities I've had to influence policy and to to serve on boards in the in and be parts of organizations in the community that are looking to, you know, to be change agents. People understand that lawyers, you know, are trained to be critical thinkers and, you know, bring that to a table. So I think that's been one of the reasons I've been invited to a table. So I think that's that's been one of the reasons I've been invited, plus my willingness and desire to do it is kind of, you know, in, in, in, embedded, from what I learned as a child. I mean, this is what you're supposed to do if you're a, if you're a lawyer and you love your community, is to, you know, roll up your sleeves and try to help somehow.
Speaker 2:So, and navigating it has been time consuming, but I won't say it's been difficult. It's been, you know. Actually, I often feel that I take more from these experiences by meeting people who are, you know, trying to do good in the community as well, and making you know, networking, like, you know, trying to do good in the community as well, and making, you know, networking. Like you know, I know all of the things that you and Tia are doing because we are, we intersect in those organizations that are trying to make a difference.
Speaker 2:So it's been time-consuming but it's been, sometimes, I think, more rewarding personally than I've taken more, more rewarding personally than I've taken more from the experiences that I've given. But, yeah, I enjoy it. You know, I look at our history and I see so many examples of people making a difference through, you know, giving of their time, their talent, their treasure in ways that, you know, slowly, unfortunately still today, I mean, the pace is heartbreaking. But when I think about the circumstances that our ancestors, you know, dealt with, you know, even recent ancestry had to deal with, you know, I can't complain about, about the pace or the difficulty. It just inspires me to, you know, keep my eye on the prize, as they say.
Speaker 1:Now, tia, you might not know this Me and Judge Davis, who I would say is much more passionate about education than I ever would be, but we were on the board of the Public Education Fund and I remember there was a time of, you know, we were both kind of having these very spirited discussions around how to go about trying to make a difference, especially in the education space.
Speaker 1:And I know I have, you know, my philosophy, I can be bullheaded sometimes. I know Judge Davis definitely has ways and experiences that he's went about kind of those change. I guess, judge, do you, do you ever get frustrated? Or you know ever get frustrated? Or you know, just see that the way that maybe your generation, or even you know folks in your sector for that matter kind of go about change in comparison to, let's say, a younger generation or just people that might think you know differently, and I'll specifically say, even around like voting, you know I'm one of those folks I believe in voting, I think that that is important, but I know we have a large group of our community that might not even feel that that makes any difference. Right, and we should be going about change in different ways. I guess. Do you feel any of that tension in terms of how you normally have done work or done change, compared to two different generations, different communities or done change compared to different generations, different communities.
Speaker 2:You know it's an interesting question, ronnie, because you know I remember you and I you put it diplomatically, but we were disagreeing about something, but it wasn't in principle, because what you and this is still a frustration that I share you know the school system being accountable for the dollars that it spends and the time that it spends in educating our children and being able to demonstrate, you know, empirically, you know, a result. I still think that is a challenge that we have, and particularly when it comes to the charter school system, and that, you know, the absence of accountability is so bothersome to me, both from a financial point of view as well as a performance point of view. But you know. So, in this context, the question is well, how do you go about changing that? And yeah, I'm frustrated that more young people are not seeing the vote as a lever to do that, because I really think it's the only lever to to make change. And I'm not opposed to civil protests, you know, and peaceful protests, you know it's consistent with our history as a country and the First Amendment rights that we all have, but I just don't think, in this day and age, that that they're going to make a difference. The opposition's voice is louder and more pervasive, and in some instances it's because of the technology and the digital reach that we have now. So, while you know, passion being expressed on the steps of the Capitol is a wonderfully symbolic, you know, gesture, I don't think it's going to make a difference than it used to make, but what can, as long as we can keep it, make a difference is the collective, you know, political will of like-minded people, but it requires that you vote. And I don't know why my frustration is. I don't think young people connect the dots between what is happening in the world and the laws and legislation that is driving it. And you know it's not a foregone conclusion that things have to be that way. I mean it can change, but it's going to require.
Speaker 2:You know, what was one of the things that frustrated me about our last election is that you know not not not so much how people voted, but because that was frustrating but additionally, how many people didn't vote. You know, in my effort was to. You know I had created a public service announcement urging people. You know, just, everybody, just vote, you know, but it didn't happen. We didn't have the turnout that we needed. But you know, the challenge is to get that message out and to continue to encourage our youth to realize the importance of the franchise and that, you know, without it we we're really not, we're not going to experience any significant change. And we may experience, you know, changes that we really don't want. We may be in the middle of some of that right now, so, but again, it's not, it is not reason to be disheartened, because I was thinking about this the other day.
Speaker 2:You know, back in the 1920s, there were Ku Klux Klan men walking 20 abreast and 20 deep, with 20 groups of them, in Washington DC, and they had permeated the entire political mechanism of the United States in ways that you know you would think you would never overcome.
Speaker 2:But you know, somehow, you know, between then and 1964, you know, change occurred and you know, when you think about it, you know that's the other thing that I'm passionate about. And you know, when you think about it, you know that's the other thing that I'm passionate about. And in the fact that you know, the analogy is if you tell a child not to do something or anybody not to do something, it almost always signals that's something that I need to do in human nature and when they say we don't need to teach history anymore. I have every chance I get now I am trying to lift up a story that is both inspiring and informative about our history in the African-American community, because it is and it's American history. So you know, history suggests that while these times may be bad, there have been times that are worse, and that you know through, you know collective action and you know learning. We can, we can make a difference, and things don't have to be as bad as we might imagine.
Speaker 3:So not hearing these statements come from a federal judge. I'm curious, I think, at least in the involvement I have. Some of the families with which I work are really struggling and they feel like it doesn't matter if they go vote or not. They're in such a low place in space that it almost feels like voting is even higher than the needs they have. They're stuck regardless, no matter who's in charge. Even higher than the needs they have. They're stuck regardless, no matter who's in charge.
Speaker 3:I'm curious what you've seen on the bench in your career in terms of juveniles. I know you've worked with some families along the way and don't even really know exactly what you're ruling on these days. But I'm curious, based on just the people who might be listening, who they don't vote and they don't understand what you see from your side. There's not every day you're able to talk to somebody who has had to make a ruling, who's had to maybe send someone to jail, maybe not. I'm just curious what you've seen and why the voting really does matter from your angle, from the types of decisions you've had to make. Judges have to make. We vote locally for some judges and people still don't go out and vote.
Speaker 2:What would you suggest? Well, I don't know. That's a complicated question to you. You know judges are elected and officials, so you know it's clear that the temperament and and and quality of justice that is meted out is going to be influenced by the kind of people that get to sit in this in the position that I have. So, yeah, part of the problem is that you know it's not immediate. There's not an immediate result from you voting. You know it takes time and it's hard for people to realize that. You know, and it's hard for people to realize that you know that that one piece of power that they have infused collectively can make a difference.
Speaker 2:I think it's a matter of educating people. You know civics was included as a curriculum in the schools and is not anymore. But you know but at least not to the extent that it was. I think it's, and I think it's important among the African-American community for us to lift up the history around voting of this country's history to get the vote, that just from that evidence alone there should be some sense that this is an important right that needs to be, you know, protected and cherished. But I don't know it has to do with education.
Speaker 2:You know, ronnie, and I talk about our interest in it. You know how do we educate our children to realize that the vote is important and, you know, do it in a way that and not just for black kids, but for white kids as well I mean for our citizenry to be able to influence the government in some ways and the decision makers in ways that are different, but different than they are today. But yeah, it's a complicated question for a lot of reasons because in many ways I think our electoral system needs reform and that's, you know, a strong argument can be made that there's far too much money involved in, in the, in the system, and you know, campaign reform is.
Speaker 1:But, again, these things that I'm mentioning are subject to being being influenced by voters and, you know, until we become of a mind to recognize that power is, you know, there's the get out the vote part and the importance of that to get the people in place to represent our interests Right as a community, whatever those may be.
Speaker 1:But I sometimes I feel like there is a gap between getting the folks in office and sending them there with an agenda to do some specific things.
Speaker 1:I think you know when I think of the opposition in my mind, you know like it hate it, whatever. It seems as if there's some clear messaging, some clear direction, some clear agenda in terms of if we vote for you, this is what we need you to do for our community specifically. And sometimes I get the feeling that we're sending elected officials to office kind of on the premise of, you know, I hope they just do right by us, but not necessarily like we're voting because we need this specific thing changed in our community or we need this specific policy or this specific infrastructure put in place for our community. Is that, is that, I guess, a feeling that you share? Or, if not, you know what are those things that you feel like we should be as communities fighting for, should be as communities fighting for, even if we got the people in office, you know, and making sure that four years, six years, eight years later, however long that takes, we actually see the change that we we expected to see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ronnie, you know it's complicated and I hate to keep, you know, using that term, because one of the things that is is evident right now is that we are a minority voting block which alone cannot, we cannot, dictate the agenda. If you will, and, and, and, but that that doesn't mean we should be hopeless. What I think it means is that we should be looking to build coalitions and and understand that, you know, politics is about compromise. These ideas necessitate thinking in lengths of time that are not immediately gratifying, that the process is slow, but that, you know, building coalitions is necessary. So I hear you, you know and I can think of a number of issues. You know that we could, we could identify and say well, this is what we need in this community. So how do you go about finding people whose interests are such and politics is so? Interesting is that you know there may be somebody who wants to get a bridge built in their community that's not going to affect ours at all, but they can't do it for some reason. But we might be able to help strategically, would? It would be important. They are, you know, fully immersed in the issues and informed of the issues and the interests that exist in the community and you know some of our elected officials are doing as good a job as they can under the circumstances, but there may be some that are not, and you know. But again, it's coming back to the citizens in the community to be aware of that.
Speaker 2:You know our youth are not paying attention to what's happening in the city council, and I don't say that to be derogatory, because the truth of the matter is when I was their age, I was not either, you know. But I grew into a, into a, a maturity that made me realize this stuff is really important and I need to pay attention to it, I need to be involved in trying to make a difference. So, you know, I guess that's a question of timing in terms of you know how. Maybe we can speed it up a little bit. So that realization happened because it does happen. Realization happen because it does happen. I mean, you and tia are examples of, you know, having grown from childhood to youth and young adulthood and having, you know, embrace those, those interests and those values. But how can we get it to happen sooner?
Speaker 3:maybe, you know, and I don't know I think some of the story you told, even about the camp, is part of the answer for that. All I could picture was all of these boys together, all of these men they could see to attempt to emulate. Even if they don't end up being exactly what they are, they had a person to see. They had a person that inspired them to kind of learn more, do more, learn more, do more. And I think from that mentorship component because I don't know how many of our listeners get the chance to hear from a federal judge every day, but they can today I'm curious what you would share with people that are listening about just forward movement, if that makes any sense. Movement, if that makes any sense. So part of the story that I didn't say your daughter put out there for everybody, was that you didn't think you were doing well when you went to law school and at some point you were potentially not even taking the final exam. So from what I understand the talking about delayed gratification, you all didn't even get your grades. Like we, we're looking for the grade as soon as we do an assignment right now, we go on, we check, we see how we did.
Speaker 3:Apparently, you couldn't do that and throughout this particular semester, you thought maybe you weren't doing well at all, so much so that you were just gonna skip the final.
Speaker 3:And even beyond that, you apparently had determined you were going to the Navy. You had a whole other plan because you had a wife that you had to go home and explain what the next plan was going to be because, apparently, law school would not be it. And, from what I gather, your professor called your wife and told her that you didn't show up to your final exam. And she gave you an earful and you went and took the test. And that's when you realize you were in the top percentage of your class. And here we are now. That's law school and you're a federal judge right now, appointed by Obama in 2013. So, from that entire story just the idea of kind of sharing with everybody from your seat who you are now, but that you did also experience doubts along the way, and really the importance also of people around you that will motivate you to keep you on course if you would just talk a little bit about that experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I tell law students this sometimes that I believe the first year of law school may be purposely designed to undermine your confidence. You know there's a weeding that occurs based on just the volume of material that they throw at you. And, yeah, I had lost confidence in my ability and it was through and I'm not at all ashamed to say this the grace of God and the support of my family that I persevered. You know there's lessons to be learned in believing in yourself and in accepting help when it's offered in direction and support when it's offered in life, because there will be challenges that you have that are best overcome with help. And to you know so it was uh, it was a difficult time for me but, as you said, I uh with, uh, with the love of family and with their support, I just I made a decision to not give up.
Speaker 2:It was one of the best decisions that I made in my life. I mean, and I had you know I'm good on plan Bs I had a plan B. It was okay, I'm going to see the world, I'm going to join the Navy and see the world. And you know I wasn't as disabused of that idea as my family was at the time. I was disabused of that idea, as my family was at the time, but they convinced me that, well, you know, just take the test and see what happens. You can join the Navy after that if it doesn't work out. And so I did.
Speaker 2:But yeah you know and I think it's true in life generally is that there are going to be times when you, you, your, your confidence is shaken, and the lesson is to you know, just never, never, give up and always believe in yourself and your abilities, because they're God given. You know, and we all bring strengths that we don't even know we have, as catastrophes will teach us. When you look at how people perform, you know, in the most unbearable and harshest conditions, the human spirit is such that you know we are survivors and excellers and learners, and you know. So, yeah, I don't. I don't give up easily anymore, for sure.
Speaker 1:You know, judge Davis, I know Tia has kind of a last question for you, but this is completely kind of off topic but I got to squeeze it in. This is a quasi-tech show. We talk about a lot of different things, but AI, artificial intelligence and law and I'm almost specifically asking this question. Matter of fact, my daughter is interested in going into into law as well and she was interested kind of in AI, patent law and that kind of stuff. But you know more.
Speaker 1:So from the workforce side, you know, I know there's levels to this, like any profession in terms of law and folks that are working in that space. But I get the feeling that you know artificial intelligence when it comes to drafting papers, when it comes to, you know, taking in input and coming up with an opinion on certain things, just the way that AI might have an impact on a lot of these different professions. But you know, obviously you've been in the law space at the highest level. Do you see any potential impact when it comes to AI and how it might impact everybody from, you know, legal assistance all the way up to federal judges, from legal assistants all the way up to federal judges? But do you see any disruption in your field with some of these technologies now that are coming out and they can draft things and analyze things and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ronnie, even before AI technology was knocking at the door, so to speak, there were and are still. Although I've never used them, I'm aware of them. There are companies that will allow computers to resolve disputes. You don't have a human involved, but you have to agree. And so if you and I had a controversy, we would agree that we're going to use this platform to resolve it. We feed the facts into it and it makes a decision. And that's before the advent, in the past couple of years, of artificial intelligence. This was something that even preceded that.
Speaker 2:So I can't imagine what the artificial intelligence being the driver of the processes that are involved in and, more importantly, the decision making that's involved. For example, you can ask an artificial intelligence program to write a brief on a subject, and what the experience is that I have learned of is that the intelligence is not infallible and it can even be deceptive sometimes is that you know it'll, it'll make up. So the way that the profession has tried to deal with it and this is it's really consistent, in one sense, with the values of our profession and and I'm, I'm, I hope that the, the educational institutions in the law schools and undergraduate schools, who are fostering, you know this. This discipline will stress the importance of integrity because that's what the courts have been looking at of integrity, because that's what the courts have been looking at If you are using AI, you need to disclose it.
Speaker 2:First of all, don't use it. And if you are using it, disclose it, and that's the protection you know. And then the scrutiny that needs to be brought to work product that's into the system. You know, if you file a brief, there are ways to detect errors, but you know it's labor intensive, so it's a challenge. It will be a challenge for our system. So, yeah, it's your concern, I think is well placed.
Speaker 3:I'm curious Ronnie's response to that.
Speaker 1:I mean, first of all, it's just not the legal profession. I think it's all the professions. I like to use kind of the medical space as the best example, because in our mind, when we have that surgery, you are hoping that that surgeon has, through schooling and other experiences, has seen this example, this particular scenario, a lot of times, whatever that might be, and that they're making the best decisions coming in there to that surgery. Now, if you have a robotic arm and you have an AI system where the doctor might have had 35, matter of fact, given 300 surgeries, right, it doesn't compare to that AI system that has seen 300 million surgeries. And so you know now the to Judge's point. You know you start getting into the trust factor, right. I mean, do I really trust this robotic arm to do the surgery?
Speaker 1:I think that's the major leap that we're looking at right now. It's not the, it's not the actual technology, it's kind of the mental leap. Do we want the robot to do surgery? Do we want the AI to do that, to do the mediation? Do we want the AI to do these other things?
Speaker 1:But I think once we get over that, I can see us looking back 10 years from now and saying, oh, why would I want the human to do the surgery? Right? The human is only seeing 350 of these examples. You know, no way do I want the, the human judge to to rule on this particular situation because they've only seen X number of examples of this, where that AI system has seen millions. And I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that, but I think that's going to be the switch. Slowly, over the next couple, you know, half a decade here is really going to be a mental switch in terms of how we look at AI, in terms of, and, yes, does it make mistakes? Absolutely. But I think folks are going to say, well, you know, humans make mistakes as well, but do you want the mistake to be made by the human, who's seen 300 of these examples, or the AI machine that's seen 300 million? And yeah, I think it's going to be challenging times for a lot of professions.
Speaker 3:Well, so I'm torn.
Speaker 3:So I consider myself I'm not old Let me just state this for anybody listening but kind of old school, raised by older people, and I also understand where we're going, or at least you know, picking careers or determining how they're going to feed their families in the future, and then thinking of all the scenarios and ways in which technology could come in and do some things that they've been trained to do or that they were planning to get trained to do and that potentially become something that the computer may do instead.
Speaker 3:And then you know just the amount of humans that might be looking for their own kind of cause and purpose. Which leads me back to something Judge Davis said earlier that you know your gifts are God giving, and as he, you know, talked about his own kind of faith, I'll do the same in terms that they will make room for you, I think, having people feel confident enough that that could still be the case, even hearing that, if your whole job was, you know, doing this mediation or doing this particular aspect of something that the computer will take over, potentially making sure that people still are aware that there are opportunities for them in this world to still be able to be successful and take care of their families and make a difference.
Speaker 2:We're adaptable as a species and that's what has allowed our survival and our progress is our ability to adapt to change, and the changes are just coming faster.
Speaker 2:And then I know that in recent history, that the climate change that you know we are going to, that whole scenario is going to be something that our children and grandchildren are going to have to deal with, is going to be something that our children and grandchildren are going to have to deal with, but it's it's going to require some new adaptive techniques, skills and strategies.
Speaker 2:There's no doubt about it, and that's going to be true in the, I think, in the technology world as well. You know I wouldn't be surprised and you know Ronnie may be on the cutting edge of this is that you know you know Ronnie may be on the cutting edge of this is that you know how to build and perfect and and, and. We need to be focused a lot more on technology and its risk and its benefits. And you know Ronnie's got a program with some young people that are doing exactly that, and you know I'm not sure that that isn't something that we need to be doing more pervasively in the community for all of our children, not just those who now might have an interest in it. But we haven't gotten there yet, our policymakers have not gotten there yet and, you know, somehow trying to move that interest, you know, hopefully it won't take a catastrophe. But oftentimes, you know, our changes in our, our, our meaningful changes, have been the result of some sort of catastrophe occurring. So we shall see.
Speaker 3:And you said the interest. I think it's the need at this point, getting them to see the need and that being a priority. So, in trying to kind of give you some final thoughts, I know that you're a big family man, certainly as we can hear from the call today, extremely intelligent, extremely informed, lots of great history. What do you want your legacy to be, not just as a judge but, I am curious, in terms of ruling? What would you want that to be, as well as just Judge Davis or Brian Davis, the man.
Speaker 2:You know that I left and this may sound cliché but it's true and you know, if we all had this wish, maybe it might come true is that you know I left the world a little bit better than I found it. You know, and I think through, I'm hoping you know, that spiritual lit, the work I've done speak for me. You know not only the work but the children that I've created. You know making a contribution to the world going forward, the children and people that I've touched in my life, hopefully being helped in their journeys toward. You know making a difference. You know that would be enough for me If that recognition was, was, was, was available to me.
Speaker 1:We appreciate you, judge Davis, for joining us today and, if I haven't said it before, you know you've definitely been a role model for me. I you know, I you know it funny, we've talked about politics today. Tia, I never thought of a judge. I don't even know if I had a vision of a judge's personality, but in my mind, I don't know I just always felt a judge was much more stiff and didn't really come off in terms of personality. Judge Davis is the complete opposite of that, I think. Anytime I've ever heard anybody ask him a question, he's had a response that felt like it was thoughtful and a whole nine yards. So yeah, whatever that skill set is, I applaud it.
Speaker 3:He's a poet too. He won't talk about it today.
Speaker 1:I forgot about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, listen. Thank you all very much for engaging in meaningful conversation in our community. It's these kind of tools I hope will, you know, hopefully help some people to you know, move the needle and I know you all are dedicated to that. So thank you for what you do.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, so good to talk to you today. All right, take care, jess. Bye-bye, bye-bye. See, I don't know how to leave and he's the host so he'd have to do the.
Speaker 4:Oh no, here it is. Here's a little man down there. Here's a little man, see ya, thank you, oh man. Oh man, take me back to before the noon. No, I ain't take it out of cue.
Speaker 4:Innocence can be a human's game Signed up for the hall of shame. I wish I knew how much I missed. I know Nowhere I'll screw. I know that we're all screwed when we play our roles and ignore the problems. I like to be way more patient. Stay up. I feel so outdated. How can we look the other way? Sun is out, but the sky is gray. What would happen if I took a chance? It's always hard at first glance. I don't wanna, but I know I gotta do it. The truth is hard to swallow, but I know I gotta do it. The truth is hard to swallow. I think I'll chew it. I wish I knew how much I missed Not knowing that we're all screwed when we play our roles and you're the problem. I wish I knew how much I miss not knowing that we're all screwed Nowhere else to go when we play our roles and ignore the problems. I wish I knew.