Auto Care ON AIR

Mentorship and Manatees, How A Little Guidance Can Lead To A Lot Of Growth

• Auto Care Association • Season 1 • Episode 37

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Ever confused a mentor with a manatee? You're not alone! Our latest episode of Auto Care ON AIR starts with this lighthearted mix-up before diving into the impactful topic of mentorship. Joining host, Jacki Lutz, are auto care industry professionals Lisa Kellett, Business Development Manager at AutoZone, and Mike Mohler, EVP and CPO of APSG, who share personal stories of how mentors have played pivotal roles in their careers. We promise you'll gain fresh perspectives on how these relationships can shape personal and professional growth, moving beyond typical narratives to explore deeper emotional impacts.

We explore the nuances of mentorship, emphasizing how these connections often form organically, without the need for formal arrangements. Through real-life anecdotes, we highlight how mentors can empower by genuinely caring and encouraging resilience and critical thinking. The discussions also touch on the universal human experience shared across all levels of the industry, from CEOs to janitors, focusing on the importance of trust and emotional support within mentor-mentee relationships. Whether it's through direct approaches or recognizing unspoken needs, the proactive role of a mentor can be transformative.

From tackling why mentees might hesitate to seek help to celebrating the joys of mutual learning, this episode is packed with insights. We also discuss how mentorship can be a remedy for the isolation that often comes with today's remote work environments. Our conversation underscores the fun and camaraderie that make mentorship not only beneficial but enjoyable. Encouraging gratitude and engagement, we aim to inspire listeners to embrace mentorship opportunities and foster a more connected, thriving auto care industry.

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Mike Mohler:

And I want to be clear we're talking about mentors, not manatees.

Lisa Kellett:

I made that mistake.

Mike Mohler:

I made that mistake early on. I thought it was a manatee meeting.

Lisa Kellett:

I thought I'm shaped like that I can go do that. And it was a mentor meeting Boy, was I surprised.

Jacki Lutz:

I had the wrong outfit on and everything. I'm sitting here thinking like oh man, did I have a spelling mistake? Did it say manatee?

Lisa Kellett:

Yeah, we're talking mentor people not manatees, but manatees are cool.

Jacki Lutz:

They are cool. I would love to go to a manatee meeting. Yeah, I would too.

Mike Mohler:

I've got the outfit, I bought it for that one event.

Lisa Kellett:

But, you look great. I haven't put it on since, and then things digress.

Mike Mohler:

I'm always good for at least one side trip.

Lisa Kellett:

I'm always good for at least one one side trip. I'm always starved. This is too good.

Jacki Lutz:

Welcome to ON AIR Care , a candid podcast for a curious industry. I'm Jackie Lutz, content director at the Auto Care Association, and this is Carpool Conversations, where we collaborate on today's most relevant power skills. We're all headed in the same direction, so let's get there together. Okay, welcome to Carpool Conversations. I'm very excited for this topic of mentorship. I think that we're going to tackle this in a way that I haven't heard it tackled before. Less about necessarily that you need it, like this kind of like all the typical things that you hear, but more like just a little bit of context behind mentorship, maybe a different way to look at it and how it could actually benefit you in your career and, frankly, in your life. And I have two people that I greatly respect in the industry that I asked to be on this podcast and, luckily, know each other, so we're all just like one big happy family. Here I have Lisa Kellett. She's a business development manager for AutoZone. Welcome to the show.

Lisa Kellett:

Thanks, Jackie.

Jacki Lutz:

And Mike Mohler, EVP and Chief Purchasing Officer at APSG.

Mike Mohler:

Good to be here. Thank you, Jackie.

Jacki Lutz:

Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is going to be fun.

Mike Mohler:

It will.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah. So just to kick things off, let's just go back in time a little bit about mentorship in general. So what mentors have you guys had in your lives and what impacts have they had?

Lisa Kellett:

I'll start. I actually came into the auto aftermarket from the manufacturer's rep side on the outdoor lawn and garden. So I had worked with a person that said, hey, you should come work for our company as a sales manager and his name is Randy Sartor, and he was so supportive in the fact that we didn't identify him as a mentor and me as a mentee. It was just, he was a senior salesperson and I was a new salesperson and he was just habitually one of those people that wanted to see his team succeed. So he would make sure that I had the right introductions at large corporate meetings and saw the right people and you know he'd whisper in my ear the background of who that person was.

Lisa Kellett:

And even though their title was x, they actually did YZ with the company and really just it was like having somebody paving the way for my career right in front of me and it was so inert and quiet about it that it wasn't until after I left that company to work for another company that I realized what a huge advocate he had been for me and how many of those relationships that I established working for that company that have been the entree to this industry. So again, when we talk about mentorship, I think and Mike, I'm sure you would agree it doesn't have to be an official consciousness, it just has to be the willingness to help and pave, and I was blessed to have that at the willingness to help and pave, and I was blessed to have that at the very beginning of my career.

Mike Mohler:

You know it's interesting, lisa and Jackie, when I think about mentorship that the mind tends to go to some academic, very strict regimen that you have to go through to become a mentor or even a mentee and, as we've said earlier, speaking together getting ready for this, some of the best mentor relationships I have happened entirely organically. Some of them were happening and I didn't even realize it as a mentor. It's funny you're a mentor, whether you know it or not. People are watching how you live your life and how you react to things.

Mike Mohler:

Well said, but as a mentee, as I think early on, there's a number of people, both male and female, that I have worked for over the years and they exhibit the same traits. The traits are this I felt as though they cared about me. I felt as though I didn't have to worry about what they said about me in rooms I wasn't in, to use the quote. I've had people that weren't afraid to lean on me, impress me and ask me my opinions on things. I think one of the best ones I've had is one that is the most recent, and it's Larry Pavey.

Mike Mohler:

You get a guy like Larry Pavey, and he's been there, he's done that, he's been on top of the hill for many, many, many years. Yet he's very unassuming. I would venture to say it's more of a servant leadership type of a thing. Yes, he's got the corporate hierarchy, he was CEO of the group and he's got all of the trappings and all that that come with it. But you wouldn't know it If you didn't know he was CEO. You would think he's maybe a people officer or something like that. So those are the traits I think of Larry Pavey.

Mike Mohler:

And then, early on, before that young man I'm going all the way back to 2000, there was a gentleman at Federal Mogul where I worked, which I thought I would retire from one day. And I might have tried to do that had it not been for Ed Zabelski and I use his name a lot. He was a zone manager at Federal Mogul and it was interview time. To you know, every year we got to interview and see if we get to keep our job right. And he told me one day he said Mike, you're 33 years old. If I haven't promoted you by the time you're 34, it's not because I don't want to, it's because we're always acquiring companies and there's no place to put you. So I left about a month later and he challenged me to do that and he was willing to go through all the things he would have to go through to replace somebody that had been with him for a decade.

Mike Mohler:

But he saw something. And because he saw something, I felt something. You know just a real quick anecdote, Tammy Tacklenberg, who we all know. There's been a couple of occasions where she's had the opportunity to introduce me, like at a speech or whatever opportunity to introduce me, like at a speech or whatever, and she uses the Maya Angelou quote that says people may not remember I'm paraphrasing People may not remember your name, they may not remember what you did, but they will forever remember how you made them feel. And when I think of a mentor for me, and one that I try to emulate, going forward, going out, and when I think of a mentor for me, and one that I try to emulate, going forward, going out.

Jacki Lutz:

it would be that it would be perfectly defined by that quote. Yeah, that's so true. Because when I think about I never, I've never had, you know, like an official as we'll call it mentor, like someone who I, you know, really respected in the industry, who I went up to and said I, you know, would love for you to be my mentor, and then we have like a mentor-mentee relationship for everybody. I've never had anything like that.

Jacki Lutz:

But when I think of who I, in the back of my head, consider my mentors, they're the people who usually see something in me that I didn't see in myself. So there's just been opportunities that were given to me in my career by people who were like you know, I've never managed a team, for example and that they're the people that are like I think you'd be a good manager and I'd be like really Tell me more. You know, I don't, I don't see that yet, you know, and they kind of help, help you and kind of guide you in almost like the direction you should be going, because they have this kind of very natural, organic and different lens, looking at you in a different lens than you would ever look at yourself. Right and they can see strengths in you and they try to bring those out and try to encourage you to do difficult things and whatever to make you grow.

Jacki Lutz:

And even, like you said, even the mentors in my life they don't all know that they're mentors. To me, that's right.

Lisa Kellett:

Some of them do yeah. I think you make an excellent point. I think if Randy heard that he would chuckle and think I do that with everybody that I that I want to help, and I think we made a great point about people being.

Lisa Kellett:

We'll see some aspect of you that you may not be able to recognize or see. We, we spend so much time seeing ourselves in a two-dimensional work-life balance and all those coined, the phrases that are really popular right now. But I think when we have the opportunity to really connect with somebody in a relationship where they see not just what you're capable of now but they see that ability to polish you, to be even a sharper tool, and those are really the people and Mike, you hit on it earlier those are really the people that change the trajectory of your career and I think they do it so casually and so inadvertently that you don't realize it's happened, until you realize, hey, this person helped me make that hard turn or that hard look at myself, or whatever. That watershed moment was where you're like, okay, that person's right, I do have that capability and I need to lean into that, that trust that they had in me. And really that's the elegant part about you know, we call it mentoring or shepherding, or I like to say that it's, you know, somebody being a Sherpa. You know, having climbed the hill before you did, and they'll tell you where not to step. But the truth of the matter is, the real benefit of having had a mentor in our lives is that they somehow see some part of us that we have not been able to recognize yet and they help us develop that. And so when you talk about there not being those official mentor mentee and there are some great pieces of software out there and protocols for that you know a more linear relationship.

Lisa Kellett:

But I think when we talk about it happening holistically, like you said, you said there's probably mentors out there that don't know they've mentored me and I'd like to think, sitting here with Mike and I, you're in the company of probably 60 years in the aftermarket and I would like to think that when we retire, when we're the old grandma and grandpa in the room, uh, in the aftermarket, that we will have somebody tell the stories that we repeated about about us and and I think some of it has been, you know, um, somebody's asked me to mentor them or I have asked somebody to mentor me. But I would like to think that there's also a lot out there that have happened holistically, Like you were describing. That you know, I've had the opportunity to introduce somebody to somebody I've had the opportunity to say hey, I heard about a job that I think you'd be great at. You should apply in those types of things. Um, because that's really the, the outflow of that consciousness right that mentoring consciousness is. I want to assist you to be able to climb that hill.

Mike Mohler:

Yeah, I think of when you look at our industry.

Mike Mohler:

Some of the best mentoring happens as we search for our successor and you identify somebody, and our industry typically doesn't do a great job with succession. Nobody likes to talk about it, right, you're right, but I know that people that I've looked at I think good leaders need to always be looking around for their replacement and have the audacity to do that. Think of what we just did with Mort Swartz, for example. The industry just honored him with this wonderful fundraiser and then the next night at CAWA's gala, I was able to honor him in front of everybody. And when you look at him as they're receiving this applause and these accolades and you look at their face and you see what it means to them. He's never done a self-serving thing in his life, I don't think, and the industry is rewarding him for that. So, as we look back to successors for a moment, I know that I'm constantly looking for who's the next person that's going to be in line, because we think about legacy. One of these days, 112 years from, now.

Mike Mohler:

I'm going to be a full-time gamer and motorcycle rider right, maybe a trike, but it'll be a motorcycle. But at some point I care about what happens to this industry. I care about what happens to APSG and the people there that I love on both sides of the table manufacturer, member industry. So one of the best opportunities I've had recently to mentor has been with the good folks at Northwood University of the Aftermarket through the Leadership 2.0.

Mike Mohler:

You were there at that one recently with me and when I look into these faces some of them are a little more seasoned. You know they're there for 2.0 and their company is investing in them, but some of them aren't. Some of them are brand new and they're upwardly mobile and you can see when the spark hits. Somebody is taking an interest in me. We've got a funny thing we do with a challenge coin. Everybody that comes to a leadership 2.0 that I'm at, I give them a challenge coin. Leadership 2.0 that I'm at, I give them a challenge coin. And, what's interesting, I instruct them that whenever I see them in the industry, they either show me, their challenge coin or they have to buy the drinks.

Mike Mohler:

And it's amazing to me, even this week, how many people have come up to me and they've dug in their pocket and showed me the challenge coin. That's so cool Now if you're going to lead by example what would happen if I didn't have my challenge coin Right? People are always watching and they're judging Always watching.

Jacki Lutz:

I want to follow this person.

Mike Mohler:

So just one silly example.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah.

Mike Mohler:

That, when you look at it, it's perhaps not so silly. Yeah, right.

Jacki Lutz:

That's interesting. So for mentors, if someone's looking for one, you know, or just feels like they need some guidance in their career, like something that I've always struggled with is partially because I tend to be an overthinker, so that's going to come out right now.

Mike Mohler:

Yeah.

Jacki Lutz:

Join the club, have a like a Sherpa, you know, like somebody that really helped guide me through my career and help me, you know, or even just like the personal board of directors you know that you talk about, where you just have a few people that kind of help guide your life and or guide your career. Um, my problem has always been I've never known really what I want to do with my career. I feel like it keeps changing, like I, you know, um, I never like like as I climbed in my career. I never feel like it keeps changing Like I, you know, um, I never like like as I climbed in my career, I never thought I would be at that step. I never saw myself at that next step. I never wished for that next step. I just I got it and then I would just kind of do that and I really was living kind of in the presence.

Jacki Lutz:

I never like thought of the future. It was like I want to be a CMO one day, or I want to be a CEO one day, or I want to do something else. I never thought that far ahead and partially it was because I was always put in roles that I just never felt ready for. So I was working hard, keeping my head down and trying to do that role and be successful at it, and even now in my career, I don't actually think about what's my next step. You know what I mean. So when you're looking for a mentor, it doesn't necessarily probably have to be somebody who is living the life that you want.

Mike Mohler:

That's right, I agree.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, so what do you look for in a mentor?

Mike Mohler:

I tell you, lisa, I'll go first on this, if that's okay.

Lisa Kellett:

Yeah.

Mike Mohler:

It's my belief that you have to be intentional about finding a mentor because, again, you're not going to know you're a mentor. Sometimes I found out way after the fact and I know the mentors that I've had. They didn't know that they were mentoring me until I divulged it, kind of like having a secret crush on somebody.

Mike Mohler:

Yeah, that's exactly what it's like and what I learned was it's more about a study in the human condition. Right, forget career path, forget specific jobs, don't limit it that way. Well, what I've determined is what you learn through the seeking and the finding and the listening to and the benefiting from a mentor is it's agnostic to whatever career path you may make. It's about critical thinking. It's about dynamic decision making. It's about how to handle the ups and the downs, having someone to call when you're thinking about a career move, something to critically analyze what you're thinking about. And you'll be amazed.

Mike Mohler:

But you have to be ready. Not everybody that you would seek out is not ready to be a mentor, and you have to be willing to separate the wheat from the chaff and accept the fact that. Forget embarrassment, forget unmet expectations, put it out there, meet with people and let the mentor relationship develop organically. That's what's worked in my life. Just be agnostic to the career path, don't put that pressure on yourself. Worry about the human condition and then the rest will, in large part, take care of itself.

Lisa Kellett:

And I think a lot of it, what Mike is saying is true. I think a lot of it is not as linear as you would expect it to be right. So if you said, my logical career path that I've put on my Excel spreadsheet for Lisa Kellett would be that my next job would be senior VP of sales, and so what I should do is find a senior VP of sales and emulate everything they do. And Mike hit the nail on the head it's much more holistic than that. I think for me it's always been who do I hold in high regard, who is in a position that's similar to where I would want my next step to be, and those people.

Lisa Kellett:

We talk about the size of this industry a lot and I'm very proud of the growth of our industry.

Lisa Kellett:

But I will tell you it is such a family for me and when we joke about this being our homecoming here at Apex, it really is for me. You know it's walking down the hall and 15 hugs later I get to my destination. But I will tell you that the whole career path, trajectory, growth, consciousness that we Mike and I and some of the people in there more senior in the industry would love to see is that these young people that are in the place in their career, that they're looking for a mentor or would like to have a mentor, really take away any of the trappings of what the job is or what the company is and more about. There's a person or people in this industry who I would like to emulate. Right, and Mike is shy, so I'll brag on him for a minute and Mike is shy, so I'll brag on him for a minute, not only are you an advocate at your own company, but you advocate for Auto Care Association in Capitol Hill with me.

Lisa Kellett:

You are a valid leader, not just in your company, but in our industry, and so there's a legacy there that you and I both carry in high value.

Mike Mohler:

Very much so.

Lisa Kellett:

And those are things that I think younger people in our industry should look to. Not only have we looked out for ourselves and our families and cared for them, of course, first and foremost, but also this industry that's fostered us to be able to do those things for our family.

Mike Mohler:

Indeed. Lisa I look for and Jackie I look for. Being an autocratic or even a participative or a traditionally thinking business type of leader is one thing and I look for people that are more fiduciary. You know fiduciary. You know having my best at heart more of servant leaders.

Mike Mohler:

Certainly the mentors I mentioned earlier would qualify for that and they are masterclass understanding of the human condition and they know very well and they're going to hear this, I hope, and I hope they smile inside or overtly, I don't care, I just want them to hear it and know they made a difference because they've taught me in my career and, jackie, your star is going to continue and you're going to go up and up and up and up. So maybe one line that might help you keep it straight, and that is, and it's helped me, and that is never forget that you manage things and you lead people and they are entirely different.

Lisa Kellett:

It is not the same thing.

Mike Mohler:

Don't get that turned around. Don't think you're managing people, you're leading them. You manage things. So, just a little bit of advice from an old man.

Jacki Lutz:

I like that. Yeah, I love that. I have never heard that before. You know, we talked a little bit about how it can be kind of organic and things like that, but we do have a lot of programs throughout the industry that do focus on mentorship, focus on pairing people with mentors, things like that. So what role do those programs play in somebody's mentorship?

Mike Mohler:

journey. Anytime you can have an apparatus or a means by which to foster a conversation or an outcome. I'll use a tagline from advertising years ago you buy a lottery ticket or whatever, but you must be present to win and that means you have to show up. So if there's an apparatus, forget the strict, stoic definitions. But if there is a mentorship program that you're aware of, maybe your industry has put something together. I know HDAW last year had a mentoring segment where we went in as old guys and gals and we mentored, had 20 minute conversations with various number of people, had 20-minute conversations with various number of people.

Mike Mohler:

So I think if I were looking for a mentor today and I was looking past the organic nature of it, I would look to the industry and I would say, okay, this is maybe I get involved in Yang. Yang has got some fantastic mentors. I was talking to Robert Roos not long ago, the president and CEO of Pronto Network, and he takes an immense amount of pleasure having been asked to be a Yang mentor. Never forget that the human condition applies to current CEOs and current janitors. I mean, we're all human, we share that. So once you study that and understand that, you understand that people may not remember you, but they'll remember how they felt when they were around you and if you keep that in mind, that would apply to finding a mentor, or in a very strict, very defined way, or allowing things to happen organically and to add to that, I think, one of the things that the um software matching or the yang speed matching or whatever other avenues people use to acquire a mentor or find a mentor it everyone's native language is different, right?

Lisa Kellett:

so some people can walk up to mike, stick their hand out and say I would love to spend an hour with you a month and talk about my career, and mike would shake their hand and say let's book it yeah there are are also a lot of people that wouldn't, that would want mike's time, but don't have the um capacity to stick their hand out and and ask the question right.

Lisa Kellett:

So if there's a piece of software or a mixer or any any avenue that they could make that build that bridge. We all have to remember that, because we can communicate in this venue, not everyone else can. So, um, I am a big proponent on. However, somebody can find that their sherpa, their person that can help them grow their, their, their in, their impact in this industry, and it does not have, I don't believe it, the sky's the limit. I think that there's no rules that should apply to how we collectively, the industry collectively, helps itself grow. Like Mike said earlier, backfill, lisa and Mike. Yeah, we, lisa and Mike, want to be part of that, you know, and so we we'll continue to, you know lose any means to to aid the industry that way, and I and I don't, I would say, if you're asking my opinion, there's nothing that's off the table in in that capacity.

Jacki Lutz:

So, if you should, you know people will forget what you did, forget what you said, but they will remember how you made them feel. What feelings should you be looking for that a mentor gives you?

Mike Mohler:

Oh, that's easy.

Jacki Lutz:

Did I say that right? Yes, I think so, you did.

Mike Mohler:

When I said that I was thinking maybe this question would come up. So the feeling that I go for is I feel like I can accomplish anything, even when I'm being dressed down for having not met their expectation. I know that eventually they're going to pick me up and they're going to pat me on the rear end and I'm going to chase the next storm for them. So for me it's almost a euphoria that I think I can accomplish anything that they tell me to do, because A they've given me the freedom to fail. They're going to help me learn from that experience.

Mike Mohler:

Some of the best lessons I've ever learned have been after an abject failure at something. What do they say? It's the failing and the trying where the true growth happens. So I look for those. I look for those that have a predisposition to be a servant rather than a tyrant or whatever. And those are the exact feelings I'm looking for and I want to know that they're going to push me, they're going to allow me to sink or swim, and if I start to sink, they're going to help me. They're going to help me remember the backstroke or whatever I need. They're teachers. They are I used the word before that they are servants, they are leading by example, and one of the main things I would say would be trust. I feel like I can trust them with anything that I need to tell them.

Lisa Kellett:

And I think that that trust is exactly where I went as well, right, so when you're in a mentor-mentee relationship, the conversations that you have and should be having are fairly intimate. They're about somebody's career growth, career opportunities, maybe career failures, or maybe they made a bad turn and, and you know, they're in a job they thought they'd love and it turns out not to be a good fit. So there's so many reasons that somebody would need a mentor, and the first word that comes to mind for me is trust. You have to trust that that person knows it's a sacred space, it's a sacred bond and there's nothing that can't be talked about. And I think that my kid on it.

Lisa Kellett:

I think a mentor has a servant's heart. Right, they want that person that they're helping to be successful. I mean, a mentor is a cheerleader for not just your career, which is, of course, what the intent is, but the other successes you have in life, and so the feeling that you should get with a mentor, I think initially should be a level of comfort, that that I feel comfortable discussing things about my job and career and career path and maybe my indecision about those things, without any judgment or any, even just that raised eyebrow with like how are you?

Lisa Kellett:

40 years old, don't know what you want to do with your life right and so you know there's a trust and comfort there. And then, like Mike says, as soon as you get that, that trust relationship built, then it really is the mentor's job to start doing a little bit of a stretch goal, imagineering right you, you want to grow in your job. Here's, here's where I think you need to go and it's going to be a stretch for you.

Mike Mohler:

Let's go back to um, you just hit on something, lisa. Let's go back to this notion of the human condition, right? So upwardly mobile people. If you're going to expand in your career, you're going to push and you're going to blossom and you're going to continue to push the envelope. Eventually you're not going to win one and you're going to be disappointed. That's right. You have to expect that or you're not trying hard enough right.

Lisa Kellett:

I think that's right.

Mike Mohler:

And it's how you handle that disappointment. I've seen people go for jobs, promotions, you name it, and they don't get it and they make bad, prideful decisions that you know what the smart mentee, if you will, is going to seek out their mentors to help them process a disappointment. To stay away, to stay out of the ditch, stay away from prideful decisions that you're not going to like a year from now and have somebody to bounce disappointment off of. Have someone to help you keep your eye on the prize, on the future, on the big picture, to give you perspective.

Mike Mohler:

I think would be the word I would use.

Lisa Kellett:

And I think that one of the most challenging conversations I've ever had with somebody I mentored was they were going for a job and they actually got the job, but the salary increase wasn't what had been advertised on the job online, because they were an internal employee, so it would have been a dramatic salary change for the internal candidate but an external candidate. They had seen what the external candidate would be, and so the person asked me they're like well, lisa, what should I do? And I said look, every job promotion becomes at some point in negotiation. When you walk into that negotiation, you need to know a couple of things what you're worth, how you can illustrate that value and what you're willing to settle for at the end of the day. All three of those things need to be a hard line.

Mike Mohler:

Excellent points.

Lisa Kellett:

And so those are the types of things that a mentor does, right. I'm at a crossroads in my career. I need advice that is from external of this situation, right? So uninvolved third party, if you would, and I think that that that's one of those things Mike and you talked about earlier. That is just a, that's a servant, but that's, that's advice, right? And then I think that a lot of people think that that's what a mentor does just gives right. So I'm a prophet sitting on a hill. These are the things that will work. Read these tablets, right, and then that's not. That's not at all the case, because one of the great um humbling things about being a mentor is really using the failures that I've had personally and you know the list is long it's cathartic and talk about that.

Lisa Kellett:

Yes, I'm successful. That has not always been the case, and when you fail, like Mike said earlier, if you don't embrace that as an opportunity to change and grow, then that becomes a defining characteristic. I failed and this is going to be a mark on me, and so I think that that's a high value to me, especially a high value of the mentor relationship is just that constant cheering yes, you can do this but also real tactical opportunities to help you grow in the career that you've chosen right, Because we've done it and seen it and chances are we've failed as well, and you know I didn't do it well the first time. But if you use these shortcuts that I've now learned, you might be more successful than me, and it really that's the shortcut, isn't?

Mike Mohler:

it. Yeah, and good mentors that they give of themselves, my opinion, they give of themselves with no expectation of remuneration or payback, or that they do it from purely altruistic reasons. I know I do. I know that one of these days, when I'm on my motorcycle as an old man, my trike I want to think back that there were people that I know because they've told me that they helped me. You know, I'll give you a very clear example of how even a modest, small mentoring relationship can make a big difference.

Mike Mohler:

As a younger man, I was learning the art of negotiating and all that good stuff. Some would say, if they're smart like me, or try to be, I'm learning something new every day, by the way, when it comes to something like that. But this guy, I was pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing and he kept saying no, no, no, no, no. And then I must have been exasperated or something. I must have shown it on my countenance. And he looked at me. He said, Mike, I'm telling you no, but no is not. No is designed for you to. It's a chance for you to improve your argument. And once he told me that it has stuck with me for 20 years now that no is not a four-letter word. You're going to hear.

Jacki Lutz:

no, that is a powerful statement.

Mike Mohler:

What do you do with it? Yeah, improve your argument. Don't pout, don't sulk. Same goes for mentoring Someone that you may approach, that you want to be their mentee and that you want them to be your mentor, and they're not ready Maybe they don't have the personality for it, or whatever and it doesn't happen. Okay, that's a no, but it's not a four-letter word. Keep going. Improve your argument. Find someone else. Someone is going to take you up on that bet and they're going to invest more in you than you ever know.

Lisa Kellett:

One of my favorite quotes is from one of my coworkers that I was on over at All Data now George Verkamp. We were with a young salesperson at a sales call and the salesperson knew their product so well and the pitch went long and the customer started nodding and then he was agreeing and the salesperson kept selling and afterwards we were, you know, um, reviewing the sales call and george looked at the salesperson and said when the customer says yes, then we stop selling quit talking, that's right and so I think, in the opposition of what Mike's saying, the no is always an opportunity.

Lisa Kellett:

Drop back regroup. Drop back regroup. If you want the yes, you have to work for it. But when you get to the yes, you stop selling. And so I think that, to illustrate what you're talking about, Mike, I think when we hear no, our instinct is to recoil. But as we grow in skill and negotiation skills and also a little bit of bravery. Truthfully, the no is just a challenge.

Lisa Kellett:

It doesn't become the final, it becomes the challenge to try and get the yes or at least you know, least some compromise between the no and the yes. And so every time I see a young salesperson, before we go in I quote George Verkamp and say and when the customer says yes, we stop selling.

Mike Mohler:

Indeed.

Jacki Lutz:

That's very sage advice. That's good advice. So have you guys ever had any experiences with your mentors, or even as yourself as a mentee, when maybe you were given advice or given some kind of direction, or you gave advice or gave some kind of direction and it wasn't followed?

Mike Mohler:

Yep, yeah, I can tell you. Giving advice to a mentee, advice to a mentee again you're doing it without any expectation of receiving anything back, which includes how you perceive their response, right? So you give advice and it's not taken, and, let's say, it leads to an apoplectic, an apocalypse in their life, right? It's a lot like being a parent, in my estimation. I'm responsible for sowing the seeds and walking the walk and throwing the seed out there. I'm not responsible for eating the seed or for the growth beyond. The mentee has to show initiative as well. Now, as a mentee, I've not listened to mentors before. I've not listened to mentors before, and while they would stop short of an apocalypse, there was negative ramifications. So I know about which I speak. You know a mentor has got to be willing to put it out there with no expectation. Put it out there, it's going to be accepted or it's not, and there will be outcomes from that and you just can't take anything personally. Well, I gave you better advice. Never go that route. It's got to be on their own volition.

Lisa Kellett:

I think that you hit the two points that I would have made, one of which is you're not their parent, that's right. So you can't expect well, not that you can expect it from your children, but you can't expect them just to toe the line. You know I said you should do this. Why didn't you do that? It's never a conversational statement. More importantly, a mentor's job is to give advice and assist. It isn't to direct or drive. So I think, when we talk about how has a mentee or someone that I've mentored not followed what I would consider remarkably sage advice?

Mike Mohler:

Remarkably sage advice. I did have to throw that in there.

Lisa Kellett:

But again, it's advice from my life experience and my job experience and all the things that I've done and said and seen right, and all of that can't be applicable to another person because they're a free entity, separate from me.

Lisa Kellett:

So I think that any one of us that has had somebody that we've been mentoring can absolutely raise their hand high in the sky and say yes, there have been times where they have left the reservation and you just deal with the outcome. I will tell you that, um, all things are a learning lesson, right? So if you have the ability to armchair quarterback, you know the after effects of and and truly it could be well, you didn't do what I said, but it worked out great anyway, good for you. Um, wherever your opportunity is to armchair quarterback that sort of stuff or feel like there's an admonishment coming if you don't follow my advice to the rule. Again, when we talked initially and Mike said it beautifully there's a trust and comfort in a really and true mentor-mentee relationship that should absolutely preclude the fact or any feelings that there will be retribution if I don't do what this person says or thinks.

Mike Mohler:

You have to be an expert in communication, and what I mean by that. There's going to be a response to what you tell them. And if what you tell them is perceived as detrimental or condescending, or parentage, if you will, you lose that secret, organic mentor relationship. It becomes something different. So it's tough because when you give advice, you want it to be followed. That's when you have to take your own hubris and check it and understand your role as a mentor is to offer up 100%.

Jacki Lutz:

I think all the time of all the friends I've had where you know they had a boyfriend, and I'm like don't go back to him, don't do it and then they do and then you're like, ah, and then they break up again.

Jacki Lutz:

You know, like I kind of think of like that kind of it's got to be frustrating for the mentee or mentor. But what I will say is I've had instances where I know like somebody I consider a mentor was wrong. Like you know, like sometimes there's just things that you have to kind of trust your gut on too, but that's kind of something, strangely enough, that I learned from a mentor like another mentor you know to trust your gut and don't take people's opinions as facts necessarily. You still have to critically think. You still know yourself the best you still are going to have like insights about, um, your situation. Even though you're asking for advice and experience from somebody else. That doesn't mean that you know that's the ultimate opinion and you don't have to still sit back and make sure that you're aligned with your own values and everything is. You know you still have to do some critical thinking yourself.

Mike Mohler:

There's personal responsibility there, right. An analogy I would use from the Financial Services Committee if you've ever looked for a certified financial planner, you can tell very quickly what their goals and motivations are. And whenever they tell you that, the magic word is I'm a fiduciary. And if you think of it, fiduciary meaning, you dig into the meaning of the word. It's putting other people's goals first and objectives first.

Mike Mohler:

That doesn't mean that they get to make the final decision I make the decision but they are a fiduciary. In many ways probably in most ways A mentor is just like just like that. They are a fiduciary sounding board and repository of life experience and really not a lot more than that. And the mentor has to understand that they are the fiduciary, and it's not always easy being a mentor. It's not always easy being a mentee, that's true.

Mike Mohler:

So, in your example, I'm sorry. So in your example you're right. You make the. You're the CEO of you. So, you make the decision. The mentor is just one element of your decision making protocol.

Lisa Kellett:

That was almost exactly what I was going to say.

Lisa Kellett:

I think one of the things that's really illustrative of your story is that there comes a time in every mentee's life where the mentor has done their work right.

Lisa Kellett:

You then trusted your instincts and you've aged out of that program now. I think when Mike and I talked about how many mentors we've had throughout our lives, it's because they are all appropriate for the season, the season of life that you're in. And so when you say, hey, the mentor that I had at the time that I relied on, um, that was bad advice or advice I didn't feel, because it was counterintuitive to my gut instinct. Well, by the time you're at a point in your life and career that you're trusting your gut instincts, you're pretty far along in the curve, the bell curve, of your career, because being able to trust yourself wholly in situations is a skill that a mentor would love to see in a mentee. So I think the reason that all of us have had several and they've all sort of been unique stylistically is because they're all appropriate for the season that they're meant to, because you kind of like the mentorship circles that they do.

Jacki Lutz:

You have five mentees and one mentor and you get together at least quarterly one time virtually and you can kind of talk and you get kind of access to you know some person in the industry. That's very accomplished. It's a very, very cool program and in that sense, so a mentor in that kind of capacity, they always kind of extend the hand Like they are now a resource for a mentee should they want this resource. And I find that a lot of mentees don't do that reach out. You know they don't. They don't use that resource and I don't know if it's. I would love to know if it's because they don't think they need it, which I don't, I have to assume that's not. It because they're in that mentorship circle. They raise their hand right. So it's got to be either like they're shy, they don't know how to reach out, they think they're going to be bothering them or something like that Insecurity maybe, yeah, something like that.

Mike Mohler:

that am I worthy of being here yeah, or maybe they don't see.

Jacki Lutz:

You know they don't have that. They need that person to to say, like um, reach out and say I would love to help you, or I see something in you like you almost need that person to like spark it I.

Lisa Kellett:

I think that there's an essential um need for people. Some people need to ask for help and some people need people to ask them do you need help? Um, and and that's a good way to put it right. So I think that there are. There are those among us that are like yeah, I can't do this, I need help, and they'll raise their hand right away. And there are other people that are like I wonder if anyone sees me drowning.

Lisa Kellett:

I hope someone extends a hand okay, right so, um, I think when you're talking about those circles, it really comes down to are you able to admit you need help and raise your hand? And it's funny because it reminds me of being in school, right? So you may or may not know the answer to the question, but if you weren't one of those kids that wanted to yell out the answer and raise your hand, nobody knew you knew the answer, and so I think it's really inherently do you have the ability to raise your hand and say I need help?

Mike Mohler:

have the ability to raise your hand and say I need help. You know what it's interesting to that point Mentors. The right mentor can help change someone's life, but you can never expect a mentor to be anything other than what they are. They're human. They're not clairvoyant. They're not magic. You may think they are, but they're not. So on any given day they make you bad advice right. So, knowing they're not clairvoyant, knowing they can't read your mind, it's incumbent upon the mentee to find a way, whether it's through a channel like you're talking about or just on their own volition. It's incumbent upon them to kind of take that first leap of faith, that first action. You know they say leaders take action.

Mike Mohler:

Well mentees need to take action as well, but we're not clairvoyant.

Lisa Kellett:

We mean well but, we're always mentors.

Mike Mohler:

Mentors are people too right, yeah, absolutely.

Lisa Kellett:

I think you talked about it earlier in our conversation about what, what methodology works to help the mentors and mentees match. And again, uh, I'll, I'll talk about it again. Whatever venue works, right? So if, if that small five group, you'll see one or two people constantly saying, hey, I need help and the other three is going well, I'm just going to sit here and listen again, that may not be the right venue for that match, right? So, um, when we talked about what I be the right venue for that match, right. So, um, when we talked about what I think the right venue is, whatever works yeah, right, and I have to imagine the best mentors, mentor, mentee relationships.

Jacki Lutz:

The mentor is learning too oh 100 right from the mentee 100 and it keeps it very fulfilling and healthy.

Lisa Kellett:

And I think for me, I like the energy that comes from the beginning of things right, the newborn foal kind of thing right. I like when it's a young person getting into our industry and it's wide-eyed excitement about the things that I've been doing for 30 years and I am so used to that I forget they're amazing. And so when you asked, as a mentor, learn from the mentee, for me it's really putting on those. This is my first time goggles and really getting to experience our industry or the you know that first big job promotion again or landing that dream job. You know coaching to help somebody. You know interview for that dream job and then them getting it. Mentor relationship, at least from my side, because you I can't say that you get jaded, but you get very comfortable with the magnitude of this industry and the people in it. And then when I have a mentor, especially from outside our industry or young in our industry, I forget it's just a really great place to be and I get to put on those. This is my first time goggles, you know.

Mike Mohler:

It's kind of a you get to experience, at least vicariously, right.

Lisa Kellett:

Right.

Mike Mohler:

Experience it all over again.

Lisa Kellett:

Right.

Mike Mohler:

We were at the Northwood Management Education Award luncheon yesterday and it's really a celebration of mentorship, if you think about it. Yes, of course, there's the winners deserving winners, of the actual Management Education Award, but there's also the. It's a wonderful venue for the Northwood graduate, or soon-to-be graduate, to seek apprenticeships, to seek part-time work, full-time work, their career type work, and you see all these bright eyes and these big brains and they're like big sponges.

Lisa Kellett:

Right.

Mike Mohler:

These are magnificent young people, but I always come away thinking how many magnificent big brain, spongy people are out there that didn't have the wonderful opportunity to go to a Northwood or what have you? I think that they're all around us. We just have to be present, right, be present to win, and we have to be able to recognize when someone is hungry to learn, hungry to participate, not going to be all they can be.

Jacki Lutz:

Well said. I don't know if you remember this, lisa, but you kind of did that to me. Um, oh, when was it I had to be? Was it fall leadership days this year, when we were on the boat? Uh, it was chicago's was it chicago? Maybe connect um, but I had just gotten, uh, this job and you and I hadn't talked much before like high by kind of stuff.

Lisa Kellett:

I did a couple of times Women in auto care events, things like that.

Jacki Lutz:

But you came up to me at connect and just kind of gave me a hug and you kissed my cheek and you said you're great, you're doing awesome, keep it up. If I can ever help you, let me know. You gave me your phone number and you know exchange, know exchanged numbers and was like that. You know, I would never have even felt like I needed to hear that or to ask for that. But I think a really good mentor and someone who something for people to look for in a mentor is really someone who uh, take like you mentioned it earlier in the podcast mike it's just like someone that takes the interest in you and the time.

Mike Mohler:

Oh yeah.

Jacki Lutz:

And they'll reach out because they, you know I'm not afraid to ask for help, but I don't always. I'm I. I do feel like I'm sometimes too busy to like I don't think to do that.

Jacki Lutz:

It's not that I don't want to, but I just don't think to do that. And there's so many people in this industry like Mike, like Lisa, there's so many other ones and if you really pay attention, um, who are looking for for the next generation to, to help to, to lend that hand, and um, to me, like that's the advice I'd give to anyone looking for a mentor and like what you should feel it's kind of like they have that interest in you. It's not going to be forced, you know, and it kind of made it made me feel seen when you did that and I'm like I didn't even know that I needed to hear that, apparently, I needed the. I actually just recently discovered my love language is actually words of affirmation.

Jacki Lutz:

I forever, I would always joke like, oh, I speak all five you know, give me the gifts you know, give me the words do it all you know, right, acts of service, all that kind of stuff. The words do it all you know, acts of service, all that kind of stuff. But I actually just recently and it's from things like that people in the industry reaching out telling me I'm doing well, telling me to keep going, and that kind of stuff has actually affected me more than I.

Mike Mohler:

Well, you talked about. You talked about what do we look for in mentors, and I think I'm going to use a terminology that is in vogue now. But if you look for people that you believe have a high degree of emotional, iq, empathy, and I think they exhibit they're not so hard to find that they exhibit this altruism. They exhibit that they don't need to be the guy out front or the gal out front. They're the ones happy to support, happy to build. The guy out front or the gal out front, they're the ones happy to support, happy to build the team.

Mike Mohler:

Some of the best leaders I've ever worked for couldn't care less about credit or what have you. They're always first to name the team. Think about somebody. Think about jeff gordon or jimmy johnson after they win daytona. If you'll go back and it's it's an interesting study. I've done this before for another, another venue, but if you look at what a nascar driver does when he's in victory lane, he never fails to talk about the team, the boys and girls back at the shop and in the same way. These are the type of leaders that I look for, or potential mentors. I'm still looking for mentors.

Lisa Kellett:

And I'm 22 years old. Times, times, times, times More than I'd like to say.

Mike Mohler:

But, having said that, I don't think there's any reason you have to be one or the other. You can be a mentor while being a mentee at the same time.

Jacki Lutz:

Absolutely, there's not like a bridge. You cross where you're like. Okay, now I'm the mentor side, now that's right.

Mike Mohler:

But I think if you're a mentee, you have to expect to be a mentor, you have to expect to be a mentor in the future. If you're a mentee, you're going to learn the skills, you're going to learn the trade. Whether you like it or not, you will become a mentor to somebody.

Lisa Kellett:

I would love that that if everybody like you and I have had experience where we've been well-mentored, we have been shepherded well uses that same energy and reposits it on a mentee and just constantly pay it forward that way, I think it is the way to grow our industry. We talk about it all the time employee retention. How do we bring technicians in? How do we grow our industry? You know, we talk about it all the time employer retention yeah how do we bring technicians and how do we grow our industry?

Lisa Kellett:

how do we um replace ourselves, um and mike touched on it earlier as well how does he replace himself? He's always looking yeah, and I think that one of the ways to do that is because I have been well mentored.

Lisa Kellett:

Mentoring is high value to me um and I think that's one of the reasons that, when you said, hey, what should we talk about on this podcast? I'm like, oh, I know, yeah, and I know who I want to be with yeah you know yeah um, because mike and I I think we both have that same concept that if if leave this industry, when we leave this industry, if there's not an impact crater, then we haven't done a good day's work.

Mike Mohler:

Wow, that's insightful. That's a wonderful way to look at it.

Lisa Kellett:

You know we both work in the Auto Care Association, we're both at Auto Care Connect, we're on Capitol Hill and we mentor and mentee our mentees in our industry and hold down our jobs and care for our families because those are all things that we hold in high value and that's not self-serving in any way and it's certainly not me bragging on Mike and myself. It is um exactly what Mike was talking about earlier with you, um, I have a heart for mentorship. You really are a servant um, a servant leader. It's, it's part of um building. You know we bake the cake our whole career. Yeah, and at this point we're just icing it.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, right, yeah, and it's kind of like you know, when you give, you get as well. But if you focus on the giving, you focus on giving back, you you get so much more. When you focus on getting and you just give here and there, you know it's not going to be the same effect and it's not going to be as effective. You're actually not going to get as much it's. It's when you, when you give and you pour yourself into other people, it naturally will come back to you as well.

Mike Mohler:

It's a wonderful investment. Yeah, you're investing yourself in somebody else.

Jacki Lutz:

And that's the way I look at well. Said so, I usually like to end with just like a round robin, just to go around and say, like you know, if there was just one takeaway that you want to make sure someone listening gets from this conversation, what would that be?

Lisa Kellett:

Well, I would say that in the vein of this conversation, in the mentor mentee conversation, is that if you're ever feeling alone in this industry and it's common now with so many people not working- in offices then use this podcast, this conversation you're hearing us have as the impetus to find somebody to walk this walk with, Because you should not feel alone or be alone in an industry of this size.

Mike Mohler:

I would say similar to that, this industry is built and it's got an apparatus in it that is people-friendly. We're big, we're large, but we're also very small, and there are all kinds of avenues and venues to seek out the guidance and leadership. I said it earlier as kind of an aside, trying to be cute, but you have to be present to win and you have to take action.

Mike Mohler:

You don't sit there and wait for the mentor to find you if you're not out there to be found. So get busy, get involved and take action, and you'll be amazed if you put yourself out there, put yourself in play. I've strongly believed that the mentors will find you, that they will find you put yourself in play.

Jacki Lutz:

I love that yeah, put yourself in play one takeaway I would have is um, I think it's. I would encourage people to just pay more attention to the people in their circles and, you know, think if there's somebody out there that would make a good mentor and actually mention to that person I can see or even say you don't even have to say like, will you be my mentor? No-transcript. Um, maybe this is just like a nice little push in that direction that you don't always know when you need it, but you don't know what you're. You don't know what you're missing out on either If you don't.

Mike Mohler:

We're all on the same ride together, right? If you don't give it a shot, we're all on the same ride together right that ride of life and a mentor they can show you They've uncovered where the bones are, where the sidesteps, where the muddy puddles are. Everybody needs a mentor, whether they know it or not. I do. I couldn't function without people smarter than me pointing the way, telling me where not to walk versus where to walk 100%.

Jacki Lutz:

Which man is he meeting to attend? Oh yeah, I can tell you which one not to attend.

Mike Mohler:

They'll say funny, mean things about you after you leave. That guy showed up in a manatee outfit.

Jacki Lutz:

A lot of people probably make that mistake. I have to imagine you can imagine, right, yeah, you can imagine these are right.

Lisa Kellett:

people make that mistake.

Mike Mohler:

It's really more than I need to imagine Not many buy the outfit like I did.

Lisa Kellett:

Well, you are a committer, you're just extra. I'm in it to win it.

Jacki Lutz:

He is extra, I show up, I show out Show.

Mike Mohler:

up show out. Oh my gosh.

Jacki Lutz:

This is too good. This is my favorite part now.

Lisa Kellett:

Our next podcast will be Mike the Manatee.

Jacki Lutz:

Next time can we all just wear manatee costumes? We'll have to find out where you get them.

Mike Mohler:

I would show up for that.

Lisa Kellett:

Oh, I made it myself. My goodness, this is the best.

Mike Mohler:

I would show up for that party by the way, manatee party. Dead.

Lisa Kellett:

I love how far you're taking this, it wouldn't it counts because we're all still laughing hysterically. So it absolutely is so funny. It might be that it's late in the afternoon.

Jacki Lutz:

We're all done, little slap hat. Oh, that's just too good, it really is too good.

Mike Mohler:

Jackie, thank you so much.

Lisa Kellett:

I think what you're doing is is a good thing and I loved it, this good Jackie. Thank you so much. I think what you're doing is a good thing and I loved this conversation.

Mike Mohler:

I have too. It exceeded what I knew would be a wonderful time. My expectations have been exceeded by both of you, and consider this Consider that what you're doing here on these podcasts. Imagine how many people you're mentoring and not even knowing.

Jacki Lutz:

Well said Well said Well said, so keep it up. Thank you, 100%. Thank you. I really appreciate that and thank you for being here. This was wonderful.

Mike Mohler:

You bet. Thank you Jackie, thank you Lisa, thank you Mike, thanks Jackie.

Jacki Lutz:

Take off the manatee outfit. Take it off. Oh man. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Auto Care On Air. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast so that you never miss an episode, and don't forget to leave us a rating and review. It helps others discover our show. Auto Care On Air is proud to be a production of the Auto Care Association, dedicated to advancing the auto care industry and supporting professionals like you. To learn more about the association and its initiatives, visit AutoCareorg.

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Behzad Rassuli

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Jacki Lutz

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Michael Chung

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Stacey Miller

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