Auto Care ON AIR

AAPEX 2025 Open Mic Sessions, Part 3

• Auto Care Association • Season 1 • Episode 82

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Engines keep evolving; our service model must evolve faster. From the AAPEX floor in Las Vegas, we sit down with leaders shaping the next decade of repair to unpack a simple truth: customers don’t care which channel fixes their vehicles—they care that someone skilled, trusted, and nearby can. That’s why collaboration between OEMs and the independent aftermarket is no longer optional. We dive into how Alliant Power leverages deep diesel expertise to prepare for hydrogen and EV powertrains, and why right to repair, shared training, and co-competition protect brands while keeping vehicles on the road.

We also spotlight Pacer Dynamics, a Canadian brand with manufacturing roots in China, showing how local presence, transparent logistics, and flexible financial terms reduce risk for distributors and shops. When credit tightens and inventories get stuck, a vertically integrated supply chain, with visibility from casting to container, can make all the difference. We explore EV-specific rotor demands, coatings, and heavy-duty requirements, plus how private label programs align with faster cataloging and early part-number readiness.

The conversation turns practical on workforce: the technician shortage won’t solve itself. You’ll hear about a free, community-built curriculum for middle and high school clubs and a one-year apprenticeship that any shop can adopt. The plan includes funding pointers, school outreach, and even AI-assisted templates so a two-bay garage can launch a program tailored to its city. If the industry wants capacity tomorrow, we need to welcome students into bays today.

Subscribe for more on right to repair, OE–aftermarket partnerships, EV and hydrogen readiness, and the playbooks that actually scale.

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Mike Chung:

Well, good morning, everybody. We are here live in Las Vegas at the Apex Auto Care On Air Open Mic sessions. I'm Mike Chung, and I have the distinct pleasure of being with Human Kashanapur of Alliant Power, otherwise known as HK. HK, welcome to our program. Well, good morning, Mike. Thanks for having me here. Absolutely. Absolutely. What a great event. And thanks for making time to be with us. It's a pleasure to meet you. So tell us a little bit about yourself, your role at Alliant Power, and what Alliant Power does.

HK:

We at Alliant Power, we work on critical engine components, predominantly fuel systems, air systems, other uh engine parts. We represent the biggest brands in the market, Bosch, Delphi, Stanadyne. Um, we're gonna celebrate our 65th year this year um in business. Um and um we're really proud of that. I get uh to have the distinct pleasure to work with a great team as a CEO, um, but I work for them. So it's been a it's a it's it's an awesome ride, and it's a great place to be in the industry um making sure that engines are operating to their optimal level throughout their life cycles.

Mike Chung:

Oh, thanks for that introduction. 65 years. We're in 2025, 1960, and I just am thinking about all the evolution of engines and vehicles over that time. What a fascinating business to be in.

HK:

It it is. And and Mike, what way uh I have worked on the OE side of the business now in the aftermarket um um really uh what's amazing for me, things we thought couldn't be repaired or couldn't be done. What's amazing to me that the aftermarket's resilient, there's amazing talent, and frankly, we're gonna need them as we transition into the whatever comes next, hydrogen, electric. And you're right, it's in 65 years we haven't suddenly said, oh, we can't fix that. Well, we're we're pre-creative uh uh folks and in our industry and we know how to uh keep things operating uh in optimal conditions.

Mike Chung:

Uh that's fantastic to hear and kind of looking to the future as you think about that next 65 years and beyond. You touched on a couple of things like technicians, technologies, alternative powertrains. What are some of the big things that are on your mind as you're approaching the here and now as well into the short-term and longer-term future?

HK:

Sure. Great question, Mike. Listen, it um powertrains are gonna evolve. Okay, and the realities change as part of just natural progression. When you think about uh what it what needs to get repaired, it's gonna get more complicated. So for example, Lion Power, we have over 400 authorized locations that repair pretty sophisticated diesel systems. Well, you think about the skill set these guys go through over to get certified and validated, they have competencies. So to me, the future, and I tell our team and our network is how you evolve the reality that the skills are there, they need to be complemented, but we can evolve them to fix the hydrogen uh power trains or electric. And frankly, we're we're already having discussions with our uh OEA partners to say, okay, in the future you're gonna come up with something more sophisticated, who's gonna fix it? Because the end consumer needs points of service. So how we partner together with the OEs, um, both on the component side and vehicle side, to say, hey, the aftermarket can be part of your future, part of your channel, part of your network, um uh to make this uh this next big evolution into powertrain technology repair.

Mike Chung:

Oh, thanks for sharing that. And you touched on something interesting when you're uh referring to manufacturing parts, partnering with the OEs, and then how that can bridge to the aftermarket. Can you tell me more about that?

HK:

Sure. Uh listen, at the end of the day, you know, you have a vehicle, you have a powertrain, you know, we sit on the side, we're we're supporting the component OEMs, um, you know, the Bosches and the Delphi's and the Forgwarners and Garrett's in the aftermarket. But the reality of it, this the reason right to repair is so important, you still have it integrated into a system. And at the end of the day, we can help um, you know, if we can bridge the bridge the IAM, you know, independent aftermarket and OES channels together, we can give that end consumer a better experience. And frankly, I think that brand, you know, uh will have more reliability in the field, the more reliability they're gonna sell more um, you know, uh uh assets and it'll be serviced. Um and I think coming together, um it's gonna it's gonna create a more stronger service network out there.

Mike Chung:

Uh thanks for sharing that. And you mentioned right to repair. Are there other kind of hurdles? Are there other challenges or what could make this more successful in terms of kind of coordination, cooperation across the industry, if you will?

HK:

Sure. I I I think first thing, Mike, I would say, is mindset. You know, it's not us and them. You know, it's not the OE channel and the aftermarket. One. Two, it's about taking this uh pool of uh technicians and experts and providing training. So yes, we have to uh provide the next level of education. Um this is why I we actually uh uh build a world-class uh training center in Denver um for legacy product, and we offer uh we sp we bring technicians from all over the country to train them. But really it's about if you can repair the old stuff and you have the mindset you can go train them on advanced technology. So partnering together on um uh information but also training um uh is what I see as a path to success in the future.

Mike Chung:

So on that note about training and technicians, are these aligned power technicians, are these technicians in shops and um even the OE uh dealership uh repair shops as well? Uh great question.

HK:

No, actually the the we train uh our customers. So so it's not our uh our team um here in the US today, but uh very shortly in Mexico, we will do the same. We'll bring in technicians, these are um guys who guys and gals that work on repairing pumps and injectors and fairly sophisticated stuff. Sure. Um, but we're open to having the our other channel partners be in OE dealership groups or others come in and uh be trained. It's not restricted to one one type or another. We we believe a trained technician, um, the a customer who can do that sophisticated job um is better for all of us.

Mike Chung:

Terrific. And you mentioned operations in the United States, I believe you said Mexico and Canada. Yes. Tell me a little bit more about your locations, where you're located at.

HK:

Sure, sure. Yeah, it's it's been a journey in the last seven years. We've gone from being on the just in the east coast of Madison, but now we're all the way from Florida um up through um uh in the Toronto region, and then uh we go all the way to west uh um to Denver, uh Phoenix, Arizona, California, now in Oregon. And we we as of uh end of the year, we have um seven locations in Mexico.

Mike Chung:

Terrific. Um anything else you'd like to add regarding collaboration between the OES and IAM channels? Sure.

HK:

I think I got a unique perspective because I used to work on the other side and say, well, nothing's gonna go to the aftermarket. Well, uh if I had to tell my old self, if you put yourself in the shoe of the end customer and the protection of the brand, you know, um coming together and using the um resource pool, yes, we may have shortages in one pocket or another, but collectively, I think we can bridge the uh the technician shortage or the points of service. Um, but it's gonna take some uh pretty deep collaborations and thinking differently than we've done in the past.

Mike Chung:

And in terms of collaboration, do you see are there initiatives that you're you and your team are working on that you see some fruit lying ahead for you?

HK:

Yeah, I would say on the component OEM sites, absolutely. I I would say our biggest uh partnership, um, you know, we're the largest Bosch distributor and uh service provider in our network in the US, so they're very progressive. But I can tell you I'm personally advocate with all the OEMs. I know some of them think of us as competitors, but I keep having the conversation and I'm hopeful that somewhere in the future um we can we can think of ourselves as uh yes, there's co-competition, but it's really about end service, and and I think it's gonna take that level of evolution uh for us to be able to um create the new service networks. I can tell you I've seen some models with um new vehicle um entries south of the border, and have questioned how they're getting serviced, and this is what some of these brands have done is they've gone one level lower and used the independent channels to overnight create their own service network. And we can't we we can't look past that that we need to make sure we uh do something similar here in the US.

Mike Chung:

Uh thanks for sharing those perspectives. So here we are in Las Vegas. Have you been coming to Apex for some time throughout the course of your career?

HK:

Yeah, uh we uh I I have it's predominantly been the last eight years with Alliant Power. Um, but yes, this is a big uh big show for us um to connect relationships with our existing customers, new customers, our our our vendor partners. We appreciate it. That's one of our two major events in the year. Um and it's uh you know uh technology has really helped us, but nothing's beat uh face to face.

Mike Chung:

Absolutely. And has it been a successful uh time for meeting with all the parties you just highlighted here?

HK:

It it it has, and actually, even some uh we we have had some partners that are coming uh came from France and you know Italy and other parts of the world, which makes it really cool and convenient for us to explore growth opportunities together here at the show. So we we we uh well we we see a lot of value in this event, um, and it's continuing to get better and better for us.

Mike Chung:

Terrific. Well, I'm glad it's going well for you. You touched on you mentioned something interesting. You said it's one of the two major events that you go to. So what's the other one?

HK:

Yeah, the other one is uh HDAW uh in January. So uh the in in the U.S., those are our two major events that we go to.

Mike Chung:

Terrific. So um tell me where you're coming from, like where where do you live? Oh yeah.

HK:

So I personally live out uh on the outskirts of um Chicago. Um so I live there company's headquartered in Madison, Wisconsin. But yes, I've uh I've lived in Illinois uh for close to 15 years now.

Mike Chung:

Well, you know, just as we close and wrap up, um tell me about some of your favorite spots in Vegas, or if it's the other side, I have to avoid these spots in Vegas for whatever reason. Um are there kind of landmarks in Vegas that kind of come to mind?

HK:

Well, you know, it in the it's always an experience to go uh walk the strip. And I think this year we actually got a uh uh we had a great opportunity uh with our partner Denzo to go to the racetrack and see the top fuel cars and and uh that's pretty darn awesome. And oh the adrenaline must have been incredible. Oh i it you feel it. Oh, yeah. When you see a racetrack with a backdrop of mountains, you're like wow, you know, so you kind of uh it's pretty cool to watch in this great landscape.

Mike Chung:

Yeah, the landscape, the scenery is breathtaking. And just maybe one last question. Um, you mentioned living in Chicago. What are some of your favorite vacation spots or kind of itinerary items for the future?

HK:

Ah, for for the future. Well, we we um myself and the family, we love going um to overseas. We love going to Europe and um you know, we have family there, but more importantly, just the history. Um I I I just love uh seeing history over time, and it's uh yeah, it's pretty cool.

Mike Chung:

Well, thanks so much for sharing that. Come on, it's been such a pleasure meeting you and having you on our show. To all of our listeners, thank you for joining us for this episode on the Auto Care on Air Open Mic session. So have a great day, everybody, and great to meet you, hey. Same here. Thank you. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. Absolutely.

Behzad Rassuli:

Eddie Cho, Pacer Dynamics. Thanks so much for joining me here at the Auto Care Open Mic booth uh at Apex 2025.

Eddie Tso:

Thanks very much.

Behzad Rassuli:

Thank you for having me. Of course, thanks for joining. Appreciate it. So your shirt has two things on it. I'm gonna ask you about the first is the brand you're wearing, Pacer Dynamics. You tell me about PACER.

Eddie Tso:

Absolutely. So we're a Canadian brand. We were established in 2019. Uh, three friends, we got together, built a company based on Brig Roters. Our history is that our manufacturing capacity comes from Shandong, China, um, one of the top three manufacturers in the world, and we had an opportunity to expand that business in North America. So fast forward to 2025. We're here at Apex for the second time, and we're looking forward to meeting more faces, closing some deals, and being here next year as well. And you feel better about your second time coming here than the first time? Absolutely. The first time, really nerve-wracking. Didn't find anything. This year we had the app, looked for everything, made sure that we had everything mapped out. So I even came to visit the booth earlier today, so making sure we wouldn't be delayed and on time.

Behzad Rassuli:

That's great. Yeah. All right, well, let me ask you about the second thing you're wearing on your shirt there.

Eddie Tso:

What's the uh what is the red flower? Uh so this is a poppy. Uh and for remembrance say in Canada, it's really significant. Um come November, we all put this on our chest to represent remembrance of our veterans during World I and II, as well as you know, current conflicts going on. So as Canadians, you know, near and dear to my heart, we make sure that we represent.

Behzad Rassuli:

That's great. I gotta get one of those. So you said break rotors. Um uh what made you get into the break rotor category in North America in the like near 2020s, right? It's a pretty established category, must be a ton of competition. What opportunity do you see? Absolutely.

Eddie Tso:

So for the break rotor category, we've got this question a lot. You know, it is a family business. We've been in the business of making break roaders for 50 odd years. And then now in Canada, we've established our business for five years and we built a great friendship with the entire industry. We're not here to take away from the pie, we're not here to, you know, race the bottom in pricing, um, doing business the right way, making sure that we're shaking hands, introducing ourselves, um, but making sure that we're offering a great alternative to the current supply chain, but also building it up for our our members of the industry within Canada.

Behzad Rassuli:

I've got it. So you're taking uh kind of a legacy business in China that produces brake rotors, and you've established North American representation of that business. What advantage does that give to a customer or to uh you know some of the trading partners that you work with relative to just working directly with your business in China?

Eddie Tso:

So there are a few distinct advantages. Um the first one is that you can actually reach us in your hometown. So you can call me on the phone, we pick up during your working hours. Um, you know, business culture is different depending where you go. We're actually in North America, so we go golf together, we go for dinner, we come to events like this. We make sure that when we do business with each other, it's in the North American way. And that's not an ethnocentric way of looking at things. It's just making it easier for our customers to want to buy from our factory in China. And I think a big thing that we found is that while the factory is doing really well and they were doing a lot of volume, you know, they were losing customers. And by bringing us on board, we're actually repatriating some customers that were former customers of theirs, making sure that we can bring it full circle back to our company. So we saw that opportunity not just as a, you know, we're expanding the pie, we're doing things differently, but we're coming in and offering a different service.

Behzad Rassuli:

How much of the genesis of PACER was built on, you know, a lot of the international dynamics and supply chain pressures to kind of redistribute the supply chain from the traditional or the dynamic of the past several decades where it's uh a lot of you know Asian manufacturing.

Eddie Tso:

Well, you could say, you know, we took a look around in the Canadian market. It is significantly different than the American market. Um, and we saw this big opportunity to actually put our footprint in Canada. Everyone's like, you're in a really, really, you know, competitive category. Why'd you pick that? And we said, you know, a lot of companies that get in this category, they don't have the manufacturing backing behind them. We're true one-to-one to the manufacturer. So the decisions we make and the decisions we have for our customers, it actually goes straight back to the manufacturer. So that's our competitive advantage. Like when we came to Canada, now North America, we realized that we were offering something completely different than what other people could. Because our product, while it stands alone, it really is that aftercare, the pre-sales, the conversations we're having right now that make it different. And that's what it makes it, you know, more competitive for our customers to buy from us because they tell us, hey, like we're we're battling economic downturn here, things like credit issues, things like that. Can you give us a hand? And those are things that as a factory, you definitely can help them with it.

Behzad Rassuli:

Maybe talk more about that. So there are uh you mention, you know, some credit issues. Uh, how does that what where does that come from in terms of the break of the break road to market?

Eddie Tso:

Absolutely. So there are a lot of distributors on the market right now. Um, you know, they're lending against their inventory. They're doing a lot of different things to get funding, especially with this economic downturn. You know, a lot of our customers are coming to us saying, like, I have inventory locked up in cash that I've spent already, but the credit issues are causing my distributors to go out of business. So we say, hey, be proactive, right? Talk to the manufacturer, talk to us. We can be creative. We can give you better payment terms, you know, things like uh deposits, even we can be creative with that as well. So some of the credit issues that our customers are facing, they're facing because they committed early to distributor that has a different model than how we're doing things. But now we can come to the market and offer something that they had never seen before.

Behzad Rassuli:

So what is a comp what should a company expect from you versus maybe a competitor that also has a brake rotor manufacturer in China, um, and they're not based in Canada, they're based in, I don't know, Mexico or Germany.

Eddie Tso:

So I think when you look at the North American pie as a whole, um, you know, from Canada to America, very similar. Like uh, we're so symbiotic that anything that affects us, like tariffs, things like that, it's gonna affect you guys as well. So for us, like we're actually battling on that same battleground as the American market. Everything that we see, all the trends that we're facing, we can actually go back to our customers and be like, hey, have you thought about this? You know, we're seeing the risk with the credit issues, companies are going out of business. Have you thought about actually coming to us earlier with a forecast, making sure that your cash flow is, you know, we want to call it it's it's available to you to buy other parts. We understand that when you're buying rotors, you're not just buying rotors, you're buying brake pads, you're buying calipers, everything under the sun. Right. So we want to make sure that our customers have more cash in their pockets to go and do those things for their business.

Behzad Rassuli:

I see. So maybe it uh rather than thinking about it as bringing manufacturing representation closer to the customer, in a way, what you're doing is you're you're moving upstream, you're representing that you're gonna go upstream closer to your customer to really help solve some of their problems on their turf and use your supply, your manufacturing background to fulfill some of those solutions that you want to promise that.

Eddie Tso:

Absolutely. And you know, it starts with transparency. I think when we look at manufacturing as a whole in the Asian continent, um, you know, it it's shrouded in in smoke and mirrors. And for us, we're offering that transparency to our clients, saying, like, hey, come sit down and chat with us, let us know what your business problems are, because chances are we're facing it too. Like, we're not gonna put it behind smoke and mirrors, saying, like, oh, we're far away in Asia, we're not dealing with the same economic pressures. We're here with you, we're fighting with you, right?

Behzad Rassuli:

So how much of the um the conversation around uh near shoring and reshoring manufacturing to the let's call it the North American market, but the US market um is weighing on you uh not just uh in terms of representation of uh you know a manufacturer from China, but what considerations are there to actually build manufacturing in in North America? Is that something that's even feasible?

Eddie Tso:

I think that it is feasible to build it in North America, but you have to have that good foundation. And so, you know, my my partners and I, we were in China earlier in September going through our entire factory looking at how a rotor is built from scratch. And so we understand like all the know-how, all the human capital. It goes beyond machining, goes beyond the machinery and things like that. It really is that knowledge that's locked in for 50 years. So while I say, yeah, it's feasible from a money standpoint, is it feasible to bring all that over without the human capital and the knowledge of learning how to do it? So I think that's always a consideration you have here in North America is we want to repatriate jobs, we want to bring those things back, but how are we able to do that in the short amount of time that we have where we're reacting to the news every day? Right.

Behzad Rassuli:

So when you think about um the possibility of you know uh committing your business to the the PACER business as it is today, and then maybe expanding it, how much do you think about the future of the vehicle park and the makeup of the different components that go into brakes today? You know, I don't I don't know exactly what the future of uh the the braking systems on electric vehicles look like or some of the other hybrid systems that are going on brake rotors, but I imagine there's a little bit more complication and sophistication going on than just a piece of steel. Right? Absolutely. So how much does that if impact, you know, whether or not you want to commit to this space wholly?

Eddie Tso:

So I would say when you look at our industry as a whole, you know, the EV trends, you know, hydrogen-powered cars, they're coming for sure. And we have RD covering that. We have products who will uh, you know, be compatible with EV vehicles, no problem. And really that's like bringing a product that you know can withstand the weight of the vehicle. EV vehicles are very, very heavy with the batteries that they have. Um with our products, we make sure that you know it's not gonna wear off on you quicker than usual. You're gonna be expected to have that same quality that our rotors have for a normal gas-powered car. But where we're really seeing these trends is in logistics. And I think for us, like that's not going anywhere for us. Like for transportation, big trucks, I don't think they're quite ready to move to the EV platform yet. Um, a lot of our customers are on the commercial vehicle heavy duties that they're saying, you know what, you have a great product. We want to continue to improve on that product for years to come because we see a future and continue to sell this product. So in talking about near shoring us and like having us closer to the market, we also have a shorter feedback loop. I think a lot of manufacturers, they hear things and they see things, but they can't act upon it. A lot of our customers, they can just come to my city, I'm in Calgary, Alberta, and they're like, hey, Ed, you know, I'm seeing this trend in my industry. What do you think about it? Like F and C coding. Can we do that on uh heavy-duty trucks, things like that? And that's simply to make the surface a little harder so that rotor can last a bit longer, you know, going from five years to 20-year lifespan. But is that really what you want in that industry, right? You want turnaround for those parts too. Yeah. So it's find that delicate balance as well.

Behzad Rassuli:

Yeah, that sounds complicated. I guess that's where I was leading that question is how much is the innovation in the product category impacting the actual, you know, drive to commit capital to some of these um some of these endeavors, this strategic endeavors.

Eddie Tso:

So the cool thing is uh just like the rest of the automotive heavy duty industry, um, with the creation of new truck numbers, new part numbers, we're right there with them. Like we want to make sure that we're creating new products on the horizon, not for when they need it now and they have no other choice, but to have it ready for them so that when they, hey, Ed, I need this for a truck that I bought five years ago, I'm like, don't worry, I have it in our catalog. We're good to go. Yeah. Give me a phone call, right?

Behzad Rassuli:

Ed, when you think of the the brands, okay. So PACE um newer brand, um, obviously backed by legacy manufacturing, but um there are storied brands in our industry, and then there's this shift to private label, right? Private label doesn't necessarily mean unknown brand, but it just might be under a different flag. Yeah. How do you think about the that dynamic in terms of PACER's business? What does that what does that do for PACE?

Eddie Tso:

So I would say the bulk of our business is private label business. Um, you know, when we think of the PACER brand, we fly that for performance automotive. But when you look at our heavy-duty commercial vehicles, a lot of my customers are private labeling our brand, white labeling it, putting their brand on our box. Got it. So I think for the future of our business, that's something that I want to continue to grow, but in a way that it's not, you know, far away. I think we always talk about this idea of being in Asia versus being in North America. A lot of the manufacturers are so far away that it always seems like you're dealing with like a distant relative. But we want to be that brother, we want to be that sister right beside you, saying, like, hey, what are some innovations that you want to see? What are some part numbers that are doing volume for you?

Behzad Rassuli:

So So the But the distance is real, right? Between the the manufacturing facility and the market that your service. Absolutely. So um does having a location here uh help solve any of the logistical challenges or help, you know, uh any any kind of supply disruption? Does it help with any of that? It does.

Eddie Tso:

Um, you know, during COVID, we saw that a lot, and a lot of our customers are they were worried about getting their products. Um a big part of it was not knowing what was happening in Asia. And so when we deal with our company, we're headquartered in Alberta, in Canada. Um, a lot of things that we do, it's about mitigating supply chain disruption. So for us, like as a team internally, our conversations are how can we improve our lead times? How can we improve transparency into our supply chain? And the answer I always give is that we are truly vertically integrated. Our factory, we own every step of the process. We also own the logistics that bring it over. So we control our lead times 100%. But as long as you work with us, I can give you that transparency and visibility into the supply chain as well. Yeah.

Behzad Rassuli:

All right, Ed, final question. Uh Apex 2025. Um, what's your favorite part of uh of this week so far? And I don't know if you heard Wayne Gretzky earlier, but uh you can count Wayne Gretzky.

Eddie Tso:

So I think Wayne Gretzky number one, for sure. As a Canadian, I love hockey. But you know what? It's uh conversations like all of you here at AutoCare Open Mic. Um, you know, it's these friendships that we develop in person. You know, a lot of times we meet online, we talk on the phone. There's nothing quite like meeting in person. And so for me, those human connections, sitting down, having a conversation, maybe going for dinner, and that's invaluable. It's not just about closing the deal, it's about actually building that relationship where year after year I come here, we shake hands, we hug, and we're friends. And so that is my favorite part. I have a lot of friends, I say, coming to my booth that are my customers, and now we've made a few more.

Behzad Rassuli:

Yeah, that's well said. A lot of people ask me how they get into this industry, and I say you just gotta show up. And so, Ed, thanks for showing up. Really appreciate it. Enjoyed the conversation. Look forward to seeing you around. Thank you very much. Take care to you.

Jacki Lutz:

Welcome everybody to our AutoCare on air open mic sessions at Apex. I'm with Michael Rukov, the Director of Sales for North America for CTR. Welcome.

Michael Rukov:

Thank you, thank you.

Jacki Lutz:

This did you do an open mic with me last year? You did. Did yeah. Yep, this was a little bit different last year. I'm trying to remember what we talked about. Was it networking?

Michael Rukov:

It was about networking and uh a few other things.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, because as a reminder, you were uh the founder or one of the founders of Yang. I was. And known today as The Godfather because you sadly have been kicked out of Yang.

Michael Rukov:

By myself.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah. But it sounds like you have filled your time with a new endeavor that you're here to talk to us about. So tell me a little bit about that.

Michael Rukov:

Yeah, it's very exciting. So um I have a little bit more time now. No, actually, I don't. We'll have to work, but uh somehow uh I ended up as this group um of technicians, repair shops, professional installers. They're different names now.

Jacki Lutz:

Yep, yep, yep.

Michael Rukov:

Vehicle service experts. Okay. VSE. That's their new community name.

Jacki Lutz:

Okay, yep.

Michael Rukov:

Yeah, so um It's an autocare community.

Jacki Lutz:

So it used to be C C P N.

Michael Rukov:

Yes, the one that used to be C C P N now is VSE.

Jacki Lutz:

Exactly.

Michael Rukov:

Yes, VSE. Uh but so some somehow I was uh I was at a conference and Trish from uh Gustafson's Brothers, so it's a very big repair facility in uh Huntington Beach. I think they have 45, maybe 50 base. They do paint, they have a uh a room for about a hundred people for training. I mean it's it's a it's a phenomenal John owns the John Gustafson, he owns the place. It's a you know privately held company, it's amazing. Like it's a great facility. They they have loaners, they have a car, like it's like you just visit them one time. Yeah. So anyway, I was at the conference and uh Trish, who is in charge of their training, was came over and she talked about their program. They have a program to bring young people, and when I say young people, I'm talking about 13 to 18 years old. Okay, so high school, middle school. Yeah. They have a program where they bring them in to learn about our industry, to learn about shops, to learn how to fix cars. Uh they have a club, you know, so summer camp. I mean, I I have kids. You have kids. Yeah. You know how summer camps camps are, they're expensive. Yeah, and I can't get an idea, yeah. And and there are so many different ones. Like you can do, I don't know, you can do karate, you can do math, you can do a lot of different things. So that's exactly the same kind of idea, but for shops, yeah, believe it or not. So they have a program in place, and on top of that, they have another program for friendship for a full year. Full funded. They have a they have a nonprofit foundation uh that uh sponsors it. Government also has funds that are available for that. So it's phenomenal. Then I talked to Dwayne Myers uh from from Dynamic. And he has also a program. He actually has an even longer program for colleges and high school. Yeah.

Jacki Lutz:

So it's been doing that a long time. Oh yes.

Michael Rukov:

Oh yes. So they they are very concentrated on bringing in technicians for the future. Yeah. Because we all know there is a technician shortage. I think the last estimates we're gonna miss about a hundred thousand people in the next few years. It's a lot of technicians that we need. So they have a pipeline. They are developing a pop pipeline. So where do I come in? Right. So I've heard the story and I'm like, why is why do people not know about it?

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah.

Michael Rukov:

What can we do? So I kinda got in with Trish and John uh and a lot of other people raised their voice. They said, hey, we want to be part of it, we want to help, we want to collaborate. So we had three calls so far, uh, 40 to 50 people on each call. It's like I said, it's nonprofit, no egos. It's a free program that we're developing that we're gonna share with everybody else with the world. Uh right now we are at a good place actually, like our where I come in, I'm trying to simplify things. Yeah. Because there's so many ideas, there's so many people, it's hard. Because you can go in thousands different directions. So I what I what my job is, is at least that's how I see my job, is to bring everything, everyone back. Let's talk about what is achievable and what can we do, action one, two, three, four, and how can we get there. So, first two things I want we wanted to do was uh to create the actual curriculum. So we did that. So we have two programs, curriculums done fully. That's incredible. A club and a one-year apprenticeship program. So that's the first thing. Our next discussion, I think we're gonna have another call coming up in the next uh few weeks. We're gonna discuss where we're gonna host it. Is it gonna be a separate website? Is it gonna be on ASE or uh Tech Force or uh Range? Wait. Every by the way, all of them are involved in reception.

Jacki Lutz:

So, they're all on these phone calls. It's a pretty incredible group on these phone calls.

Michael Rukov:

Auto care is on it as well because VSE actually is developing their own website right now, too. It doesn't really matter to John, me or Dwayne or anyone where it's gonna be. We just want it somewhere so it's easily accessible. Uh we were even talking about maybe using AI uh uh backed system where anyone like let's say uh Joe's garage in uh Nevada, Las Vegas wants to run a program like that. They will put in how many bays they have, where they're located, and it will spit out a uh full-on curriculum for two-day shop, one year program, based on what we put in there, obviously, because there's information there already. It will spit out the result, tell them what they need to do, if it will tell them where the high school is, if there's a high school nearby, it will tell them, give them a link to where to find funding. We're even talking about potentially getting sponsors down the road. Like I mean, it's a it might become something amazing. That's the hope. Yeah. So uh that that's the new initiative. I mean, I I really I I like the industry. Okay, you know, I mean that's a little bit. I love it a lot.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah.

Michael Rukov:

Hello. So it is, that's it.

Jacki Lutz:

What is your hope? What do you what do you need help with? What what are you what are you hoping people who are listening to this and hearing about this for the first time, like what are you hoping to get out of it?

Michael Rukov:

A few things. Um one, if you have ideas on how it's done or how it needs to be done, reach out. If you want to be part of the conversation, reach out. We'll add you to a call. If you um have done something like this before, reach out once you're on the call.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah.

Michael Rukov:

Really, it's it's a it's a uh an awareness thing right now, uh because it's just in the initial stages. We just we literally started uh talking about it five months at four months.

Jacki Lutz:

Well, that's why I'm surprised when you said uh that you already had a curriculum because the last call that I was on, you just put the team together to make a curriculum. And that was like a month or two ago. That was not a long time ago.

Michael Rukov:

It's already there. The thing is, all of this information is available. It's there. Napa has an amazing Donovan does a great job at Napa for uh their shops. They have a program together. It's there. Yeah, everybody has their own program. There are uh not everywhere, but there are some things available already. That's why it was so easy to put it together. Because Gustafsons, they already have a curriculum. All they needed to do is put it on paper. Because I asked them to put it on paper. How are we gonna share something that isn't somebody's head, right? So we put it on paper, it's it was easy. It's there, it's just a matter of figuring out how do we disseminate it. Again, uh that that's another ask. If you know the best avenue to find shops that would like to do this, reach out.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah.

Michael Rukov:

And it might be VSCE, it might it might just be autocare, it might be just a website that I mean, it can be anything.

Jacki Lutz:

Well, it sounds incredible, and I know that you know, everybody's looking for ways to solve this problem. So I think it's pretty incredible that you know, you always need the person who sees the problem and actually walks towards an answer, you know, even if like you're not the expert, right? I'm not. But all you're doing is bridging everybody together and like bringing people together to talk on this call and like, you know, get something done. So I think that that's pretty incredible.

Michael Rukov:

No, it's it's exactly right. I mean, that's that's that's all that's the reason why I'm there, right? Yeah. Just in between. Again, we wanted to make sure no egos are involved.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah.

Michael Rukov:

Let them because that this is has nothing to do with the one personality. Right. It has everything to do with giving back to the industry. And like I said, John, why will they be one why why why will they want to do it, right? I mean, why will they want to share the information? They want to be the best shop in the world, right? But no, they want to share. They also want technicians to want, but they they have a pipeline already.

Jacki Lutz:

They oh yeah, they do. Yeah, they do. But they want more people being technicians, yes.

Michael Rukov:

In general, they have the full mentorship program, and uh um every time they have someone that was an apprentice, they actually stay on. Uh they have people that's onboarded or are over there and they're gonna stay there for a long time.

Jacki Lutz:

Have you been able to meet anybody here at Apex, like hang out at Joe's garage at all and meet any of these shops and talk to them about this in person?

Michael Rukov:

A couple, yes. Not not a lot, but a couple. I went to Joe's garage yesterday, a great, great party, by the way. Yeah. Did you get at the two?

Jacki Lutz:

I didn't get down there.

Michael Rukov:

I was did not get down there. I saw people getting tattoos, so yeah.

Jacki Lutz:

We had quite a few uh members of the Audacare Association end up with tattoos. Yeah, I know.

Michael Rukov:

Yeah, kind of wild. Very wild. I was like sorry, and I everyone's their own their own opinion. I don't like tattoos personally, but that's okay. My choice. I think it's amazing. It's amazing that you've done it. Um people, yeah. Anyway, so yeah.

Jacki Lutz:

It's funny. You know, these people, like I always, you know, I I talk a lot about growing old in the industry together, you know, because I talk about Yang a lot and how how much that's meant for my career, and it's kind of like that. You're gonna now now people have matching tattoos together.

Michael Rukov:

Like this is getting and you can always say you've got it too in Vegas. So I mean that that's that's usually like the the start of the any conversation.

Jacki Lutz:

Somebody believed the lie that what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, but tattoos are not one of those things.

Michael Rukov:

Those that's gonna be I'm glad that most people that did those uh were making them in uh places where it's more uh you know G13. Because it's like it was on display. That was my first thought. It was on display. You're like you were like laying in front of everybody, and people taking photos, you know. Or videos.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah. How's your Apex week going so far?

Michael Rukov:

It's actually pretty good. We had a lot of good meetings. Uh Apex being, you know, but we're it's our fourth year thing at Apex, uh, so we don't have any seniority.

Jacki Lutz:

Not your fourth year.

Michael Rukov:

Not my first year, but your CPR's first.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah.

Michael Rukov:

So I've been here seven, sixteen years now.

Jacki Lutz:

Wow. This is my twelfth.

Michael Rukov:

Wow. Think about it.

Jacki Lutz:

I know.

Michael Rukov:

We're growing old together.

Jacki Lutz:

I know, and it's funny, you know, if you look 12 years ago thinking that you knew it all. Man, a lot's happening in 12 years. We knew nothing. We knew nothing.

Michael Rukov:

We still know nothing. We learn every day.

Jacki Lutz:

That's why That's why it's such a good industry.

Michael Rukov:

Exactly. So it doesn't really get boring. It's a lot of fun. I mean, we we did play cornhole recently. Oh, yes, we had the best team uh called Michael Michael John Line.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah, Michael and I were a team for the AACF Cornhole tournament on Saturday, and I was telling John Kerry's their executive director, uh, I'm on the board for AACF, so I know him quite well. And I told him, you know, you should consider having an award for the team that gets out the quickest. Because I don't like losing, but that would feel like a win. But you and I got out pretty quickly.

Michael Rukov:

But we did lose to the winning team. We did win. So we are technically the best. Barely counts.

Jacki Lutz:

Yeah.

Michael Rukov:

No, no, it totally does. You were second best.

Jacki Lutz:

I don't know. That math doesn't math.

Michael Rukov:

Dad made it to the last round, so I don't know that I'm not sure.

Jacki Lutz:

I know I don't know how that was rigged either. I think it was rigged. It had to have been rigged. But uh you know, we lost zero to twenty-three, and I think you can only go to twenty-one, so that if that says anything of how deep in the weeds we were. Yeah, I know. I'm like, I'm glad they just stopped. Yeah.

Michael Rukov:

I think we put um we we had zero points, but I think we kicked one of their corn holes away. Yes. Just one.

Jacki Lutz:

So good for us. That's a win. I'll take it. Who was it? Was it me or you? It was me, wasn't it?

Michael Rukov:

No, it was uh somebody stopped.

Jacki Lutz:

It had to have been me.

Michael Rukov:

I think it was you.

Jacki Lutz:

Because it definitely wasn't you.

Michael Rukov:

I don't remember. I think I made none. I I actually was late too. Because they kept calling our name. Oh yeah.

Jacki Lutz:

I was sitting there waiting. I was like, have I gotta find a new partner or do I just bait?

Michael Rukov:

I was by design because I knew that was. Sorry about that. We're moving off topic. That's okay. I I don't know what it's gonna be called yet. Uh right now we're just calling it youth development program for technicians, uh, but it's it's gonna have a name.

Jacki Lutz:

Okay.

Michael Rukov:

We'll probably use AI.

Jacki Lutz:

Yep, so keep your eye out. So I'll have I'll have more information in the show notes for everybody. If anybody wants to get a hold of you, how would they do that?

Michael Rukov:

Uh LinkedIn or email or phone. I mean, most people know how to get a hold of me. It's not a problem. Okay. I don't mind sharing it. So awesome.

Jacki Lutz:

Well, thank you for doing another opening.

Michael Rukov:

999 Yeah.

Jacki Lutz:

8675309.

Michael Rukov:

We're in Vegas, anything goes.

Jacki Lutz:

Thanks for being on with me, Michael.

Michael Rukov:

Thank you.

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Behzad Rassuli

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Jacki Lutz

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Michael Chung

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Stacey Miller

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