The Secret is Out: We’re All Winging It, Even The Bosses

Ever feel the sting of “not good enough” right when you need to step up? In this episode we open up about insecurities that stall careers: fear of being judged, comparison traps, and the myth that leaders must know everything. With Stefan Feder of AUMOVIO and Dwayne Myers of Dynamic Automotive, we trade real stories from mentorship circles and shop floors... missed calls, sleepless nights, and the unexpected confidence that shows up when you choose to decide.

We dig into the audience poll that revealed a surprising insight: fear of failure ranks low until you add an audience. What most people dread is failing in front of others. From there, we explore how “fail forward” cultures turn mistakes into education and speed up learning. Dwayne shares a pivotal moment early in his career when a boss insisted he make a call and be ready to explain why, a mindset he now teaches to younger technicians struggling with anxiety and decision fatigue. Stefan breaks down how rising in leadership often means knowing less about day-to-day work—and why that’s okay when you build teams who hold the freshest information and you ask sharper questions.

We also challenge comparison culture fueled by social media highlight reels. Instead of chasing perfection, we focus on progress and the power of first attempts. The conversation lands on a simple truth: you’ll be judged whether you move or stall, so choose movement. Admire others without copying their timeline. Narrow your circle to the people you serve and the peers who push you forward. Confidence doesn’t come from certainty; it grows from making a thoughtful decision, owning the outcome, and trying again.

If this resonates, tap follow, share this episode with a friend who needs a nudge, and leave a quick review so more leaders can find it. Your story might be the spark someone else needs to act today.

To learn more about the Auto Care Association visit autocare.org.

To learn more about our show and suggest future topics and guests, visit autocare.org/podcast

Transcript

Car Ride Setup And Banter

Jacki Lutz 0:00

I'm so glad I did that. That was probably the coolest thing I've done this week. I loved it. Nice to get out.

Stefan Feder 0:05

The cooler thing prior to this interview here.

Jacki Lutz 0:09

This hasn't happened yet.

Stefan Feder 0:10

Or podcast. It's not an interview, right? It's a podcast.

Jacki Lutz 0:13

This is the deep dive into Stefan Feather Fetter's world.

Dwayne Myers 0:18

This is just friends talking. Yes. Yeah. It doesn't matter.

Jacki Lutz 0:24

We're stuck in a car together for the next 30 minutes or so. So we have to make sure. That's fine. Well, I I love the I'm not driving, if that's what you guys think.

Dwayne Myers 0:36

Yeah, I'm I like I love the fact of the car thing is what the best talks you have are in the car because they can't get away from you. Exactly. That's when you have the hard talks.

Stefan Feder 0:44

Yeah.

Dwayne Myers 0:45

And when you got to talk like mom and dad to the young individual, and you're like, nope, you you can't get away from me.

Stefan Feder 0:52

And you have that shoulder-to-shoulder setup. It's like basically like a bonfire.

Jacki Lutz 0:58

Welcome to Auto Care on Air, a candid podcast for Curious Industry. I'm Jackie Lutz, Content Director at the Auto Care Association, and this is Carpal Conversations, where we collaborate on today's most relevant power skills. We're all headed in the same direction. So let's get there together. Welcome to another Carpal Conversations. I have with me today's Stefan Fetter, uh head of Aftermarket North America for I'm going to make you say the company. Emovio. And I have Dwayne Myers, owner and managing partner of Dynamic Automotive. Welcome, guys.

Stefan Feder 1:42

Happy to be here. Yeah, absolutely. This is this is fun. And to be with Stefan. That's awesome. I'm equally honored to be on this podcast with Dwayne.

Jacki Lutz 1:51

Oh, I'm yeah. We've been wanting to get you on here for a while. This has been a long time coming.

Dwayne Myers 1:55

Yep. Well, we have we have this one, and then we have another topic of uh introvert, extrovert. At some point we should talk about.

Jacki Lutz 2:02

Yeah, why?

Dwayne Myers 2:02

Yeah, just just uh well, both of us live in the introvert world. And we're introverts, but everyone thinks that we're so outgoing and and an extrovert because we are so interactive with people.

Jacki Lutz 2:13

As our batteries slowly drain.

Dwayne Myers 2:15

Oh, they're to nothing. To nothing.

How Yang Mentorship Built Their Friendship

Jacki Lutz 2:18

Yep, I feel that every day. Um so today when we did our pre-meeting, I just knew I wanted both of you on and I thought you guys would be together or great together. And so I first emailed it, kind of felt like I was setting up my friends because I was like, Dwayne, I don't know if you know Stefan really well, but I feel like you'd be great on a podcast with him. And he was like, I was like, I haven't told him yet. So if you say no, no big deal. And he was like, I love Stefan. So then I went to Stefan. He was like, What do you think about doing a podcast with Dwayne? And he's like, Oh, I love Dwayne, so excited. So I didn't realize you guys knew each other so well. So, how did you guys get to know each other?

Dwayne Myers 2:57

Actually, we got to know each other through the Yang mentorship program. Uh one of the greatest gifts, you know, for a mentor on the mentor side, and I tell other people to be mentors, Jackie. You get to meet great people, and you learn so much. You know, when you give your own life experiences and you try to help people the circle, and Stefan was uh about two years ago, I think it was, uh, was in in the group, and um, we had a great group uh of of team of for a team, and we got to know each other really well. And because we had that mentor mentee, and honestly, it the roles switched back and forth. Yeah, they might not have realized it, but they were switching back and forth all the time. Yeah, and and I got to know him very well, and I I'm blessed to call him a friend from that program.

Stefan Feder 3:49

So that's awesome. No, it is an awesome program. Um last year I was a mentee, uh, had a very great mentor in Rain. And yeah, as you said, it was a it was an awesome group. And then this year I switched roles, switched sides, so I aged out. So I'm now on the mentor side. But I wanted to continue that program because I think it's a really great program, not only because of the topic that you discussed and what you get out of it for your own development, but also because you're in this little group of peers. It's usually what is it, five five people? Fi five to six, but but you end up with three to four usually. But uh but you build out that circle of trust and you really create that great environment and you you you you create a closer network than you than you probably build at any reception.

Dwayne Myers 4:32

So that's one reason why I recommend leaders in this industry to become mentors. It helps connect you back to the newest generation. That's our team.

Jacki Lutz 4:43

Yeah.

Dwayne Myers 4:44

And and Stefan Dunya was in it, a couple others, a really great group. I learned so much just how to connect and talk with them, where my own team is not as giving sometimes.

Stefan Feder 4:54

And funny enough, you know who my who my mentee now is in my group? Dunya. Yes. Yep. Oh, that's so funny. So we went from peer from yeah, now mentor, mentee. But I mean, as you said, it's going back and forth, and we're all I mean, everyone in the group is the smartest one in their group, so we we all learn from each other. So and it's it's an awesome exchange.

Jacki Lutz 5:13

So you've been doing that this whole year? You've been a mentor since January?

Stefan Feder 5:16

Yes.

Jacki Lutz 5:16

Oh, okay.

Stefan Feder 5:17

Yeah.

Jacki Lutz 5:17

Nice. I just thought you were still a mentee. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I suppose. I suppose. Yeah. Yep.

Dwayne Myers 5:24

Fine. We all are.

Jacki Lutz 5:25

So when I um did the pre-meeting with you guys and I learned that you guys were uh met through Yang, I again I just knew I wanted you guys on, but I didn't have anything specific to talk about. I was going along, like you guys are both very successful leader leaders, were successful leaders pretty young in your career. So I figured that there would be something there. But Stefan, you mentioned um maybe we approached this about uh like topic about insecurities.

Stefan Feder 5:53

Yes. Regret it the minute I said it.

Jacki Lutz 5:55

Yes, and my ears perked up.

Stefan Feder 5:57

I was scared right away.

Choosing Insecurities As The Big Topic

Jacki Lutz 5:58

Yeah, I was too, but I love it. Um, because it's a really good one. Every single person in the world has insecurities, everybody tries to hide them. Um if you don't address them, they can really keep you from doing a lot of great things and limit you. So I think this is a great conversation to have, especially with two, you know, well-accomplished leaders who have uh just admitted to our entire audience that you also have insecurities. So to kick this off, um I did do a poll on LinkedIn um just to kind of gauge from our audience what their insecurities are. And um I I ended up, I the question was which insecurity is holding you back the most? The four answers were not being good enough, being judged by others, fear of failure, and then comparing myself to others. Um I was really surprised well, I guess I wouldn't s wasn't surprised by this one, but the the one that was the least was fear of failure. And that surprises me because I would think that that would be the biggest one easily.

Dwayne Myers 7:06

It I think that depends on the company who you're around and how comfortable you are with trying new things.

Poll Results And Fear Of Failure

Jacki Lutz 7:13

Yeah.

Dwayne Myers 7:14

Uh anyone, especially someone on a leadership journey, uh, if they haven't made any mistakes, I tell them you haven't tried hard enough, you are not doing new things. But if we've mastered something, we're not growing. We don't make many mistakes in what we we're currently doing because we're good at that. But when we step into our next level of our career or where we're heading, or just trying something new, we're bound to fail. Um, and I tell our team, you know, fail forward. You know, make the mistake or own the mistake. That's the biggest part, because now it's education. As soon as you own it, it's no longer an expense. It's now it's now education. And I think it might be the lowest because hopefully uh our industry is prepping their future leaders to to take chances. Yeah, it could be. Yeah, and it might that might be the reason. But to me, if you set it up properly, you have your team or whoever you're working with, or if you're just doing it yourself, be okay with making a mistake. Yeah. It's just human.

Stefan Feder 8:14

I was not too surprised. I mean, if you think about that feel fear of failure, it's it is legit, but it's I think it's if you expand that sentence and you say fear f fear of failure in front of somebody else.

Jacki Lutz 8:26

Yeah.

Stefan Feder 8:26

So if you try something new and you're alone in your little room, you don't mind if you fail because nobody sees it except you.

Jacki Lutz 8:32

Yeah.

Stefan Feder 8:32

And you just repeat until you have mastered it. So and those is I think and that's why also I think that like was it option B or something? It's like, hey, being judged by others.

Jacki Lutz 8:40

Yeah.

Stefan Feder 8:41

That's I think really that's the consequence. Uh that's why you are afraid of doing of of failing, because you will then be judged by others.

Jacki Lutz 8:47

Well, it's like the nature of insecurities, I think, is based around other people's thoughts of you. Because if nobody cared what anyone thought, then what are you insecure about? Right? Like so, like I didn't realize that when I made this poll, but being judged by others, comparing myself to others, even like fear of failure, if that would have been an extended question, being like, why are you afraid to fail? It probably would have been because I don't want people to judge me.

Dwayne Myers 9:12

Yeah. You know, or is it judging you or your feeling of letting them down?

Stefan Feder 9:19

Oh, that's good.

Dwayne Myers 9:19

Yeah, because I I I think especially if you're in a team in a group and you are tasked with something new and you do it, you don't want to let the team down. I don't I think a lot of people aren't as worried about failing theirself. They don't want to fail the team. And and may maybe that's part of it too, is they they they don't want to fail their co-workers, their friends, uh, the people they've been doing things with, because uh really, because we all succeed together. And we don't want to be a failure.

Jacki Lutz 9:47

Yeah.

Stefan Feder 9:48

I like that thought. And also especially if you grow in your career and the more responsibility you have, the decisions that you make have a much more longer reach. Uh and that's exactly on that what you are saying is like, hey, it's you don't want to let the team down, right? You have responsibilities for their lives, and if you make the wrong call, that could have an impact on your team.

Dwayne Myers 10:06

So oh, it absolutely does. I I I look at it as in business. I mean, 20 years ago, you know, we almost went out of business. And well, one of the things that weighed on me the most, because at the time we had about 30 team members, and I'm like, that's 30 families.

Jacki Lutz 10:21

Yep.

Failing Forward And Owning Mistakes

Dwayne Myers 10:22

That if I make the wrong call, they now are in trouble. Yeah, you know, and and now that's only increased, it's doubled. Um, but I've gotten more confident, but I still they still my number one worry is I gotta make sure that my team is good. Um, and we do that through trying to make the right calls. Not always the right one every time, yeah, but learn and grow.

Stefan Feder 10:45

How often does that keep you awake at night?

Dwayne Myers 10:48

Thankfully, not too often. Um, it does happen.

Jacki Lutz 10:52

That's heavy.

Dwayne Myers 10:53

It it well, it is heavy, especially, you know, in and when we were in serious trouble years ago, it's 2008 during the financial crisis. Uh it's heavy. I mean, literally, I seen the stress it weighed on myself and then my two business partners, but it literally put my two business partners in a midlife crisis to they had checked, they checked up for a little bit um to their credit. I mean, they came back. Um, but the weight was heavy. And and even my wife was like, I don't understand. And I'm like, I don't know how to explain this to you. Um, I'm like, I I carry this, and she's like, why carry it? And I said, I just do.

Jacki Lutz 11:29

But that's like pressure, that's like life pressures. It's not necessarily an insecurity you have. There's just a lot of things outside of your control, and you don't want to hurt to hurt some, you know, hurt someone's livelihood.

Dwayne Myers 11:42

But if it's out of your control, does that really take it off of your worry?

Jacki Lutz 11:45

No, not at all. Not at all I mean.

Dwayne Myers 11:46

Although now today, 20 years later, I tell you, don't worry about what you can't change.

Jacki Lutz 11:51

Yeah.

Dwayne Myers 11:51

I, you know, I I I believe that. I mean, focus on what you can change. But uh 20 years ago, no, I I put that on my shoulders and it it did keep me up at night. I drank too much back then. Because it it literally, I I had to have some, you know, relief avenue and relief, and it wasn't a good one. But uh, it just was heavy. And thankfully, we got out of it and crawled out of it. And it was a crawl, but our team helped us crawl out of that. But our team saw our commitment to them and then they committed, they stayed committed to us.

Jacki Lutz 12:22

Do you guys think that it gets easy, like as you trust yourself to and give yourself a little bit more grace to fail a little bit more often? You want to try bigger things, you know, take bigger risks, you have to allow yourself a little bit of failure. That's just gonna be a part of that process and a part of that growth. Do you think it gets easier to accept failure as you as you practice that?

Stefan Feder 12:45

And the way of getting used to it or like already have that preset mind that it's like, hey, it's probably not working out in your first try, and it's like, hey, probably I will fall down. Or maybe I want to fall down because I will then be able to really learn from it. Yeah.

The Weight Of Decisions On Teams

Jacki Lutz 12:57

I went through I went through this phase where I never wanted to fail at anything. So like you don't do a lot of things because you don't know if you can do it. So you just don't do big things. But once I realized that failure is just part of the process and I really ingrained that in my mind, I wasn't so afraid to try things to, you know, yeah, not everybody's gonna like it. You know, this kind of stuff just got easier, like easier conversations for me to have with myself in my head and like not to look at a failure as that's the end. It's like I just figured out that that doesn't work. So now I try something else. It gets easier.

Dwayne Myers 13:31

Well, that's the more mature Jackie, is as time has gone on. But think of it also as the leader, if you're not if you don't show an example of failure, and I mean there's different levels, you don't have to be wrecking the world when you have a failure. Your team needs to see how you handle that that way they can grow. Uh they need examples. And if you're always never making mistakes, you're still not giving them permission. And I'm not saying go out and fail on purpose, but you know, it's all right. And then you just embrace it, and you also really need to learn how to laugh at yourself, too. Yeah. I mean, you just gotta like, well, that was dumb. You know, and if you do that, then people are like, well, if he's cool with it, then I can be cool with it.

Jacki Lutz 14:11

Absolutely.

Stefan Feder 14:11

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of truth to I mean that's how you develop also that trust and into that. It's like, hey, if he's okay with himself failing, then probably I am too.

Jacki Lutz 14:21

What about comparison? Comparing yourself to others.

Stefan Feder 14:25

I think that's a big one. Um I don't know if it necess it yeah, and it it may contribute to insecurity, and but it's it it's and in that social media world that we're now in, you have that constant comparison, right? You always always what you see on social media is that perfect life.

Jacki Lutz 14:41

Yes. Highlight real.

Stefan Feder 14:42

You don't see all the background, and there were maybe, I don't know, 50 recording that came to that one little snapshot that you then see on social media, and you say, Whoa, that guy nails it every time, every video I look of that guy, it just he nails it, right? Yeah. But you don't know all the effort that was put into that up front. So and that I think increases the aim for for being perfect. Yeah. And like there's no room for failure. There's no you because everything that you see is like everything is like perfect.

Jacki Lutz 15:08

Right.

Stefan Feder 15:09

Uh so but you don't like I must be awful because I'm nothing like and you're comparing then yourself or your own performance to that perfect one-minute snapshot that you see. So um I think it's a big thing. Um and it can contribute to inser insecurity. But yeah, I I w looking back at the poll, I think that really being judged by others is to me the main thing.

Jacki Lutz 15:33

Yeah, it's a big one.

Stefan Feder 15:34

But nevertheless, I think this yeah, the the more social media we we we have, I think that um yeah, comparing yourself to others is just like it's a constant.

Jacki Lutz 15:43

Yeah. It doesn't really make much sense to do that, does it? Because like there's people we all admire, or like people that have like the job you want or do something really well that you want to do well. But like you can admire that without comparing yourself to them, right? Because you didn't see where they started, you don't know what their struggles were. You know, you might have you know better advantages than they had. You just have no idea of like what their story was necessarily. So comparing yourself to somebody else just because they might be somewhere where you want to be isn't necessarily the best tool, but I think it's really hard not to do, especially with social media. I didn't even think about the social media side of us.

Social Media And Comparison Traps

Dwayne Myers 17:09

About a month ago, I had a conversation with one of our young technicians, and and he's actually in our apprenticeship program. And he uh Today's generation does have a seems to have a lot more anxiety, especially since COVID. Um they didn't socialize as much, uh, aren't used to getting out, being around people, and decision making. And and you know, not even being right for wrong, but just making a decision, a choice. Like fixing a car. You're making a choice every time you say this is what's wrong with the car. And the company's relying on it, the service advisors are relying on it, and then it goes till the customer realizes you're you're right. We're not always right. Yeah, we're right most of the time. But but sometimes we're not. Um and you you own that, but this this young individual anxiety was really getting the better of him, and he was just wanting more mentorship, more more I I don't want to say hand holding, but he wanted someone to fly his wing all the time. And I'm like, well, it's hard for you to grow when someone's there with you. So I I told him a story about myself um long ago. When I right after I got out of the army, I went to work for a heavy duty uh company that hauled gasoline. And one of the the jobs we got that came with working on trucks was we got a little beeper, let's date it for you, got a beeper. We were on call one week out of the month, and when one of the trucks broke down, all in the DC, Baltimore area, we had to go, we had to go get it. And uh it just so happens, I I just got this pager, just got on call rotation, um, 23 and get a call. The trucks broke down, it's a hundred miles away. Saturday night, two in the morning. I'm like, I call my boss, I wake him up, what do I do? He says, do this, this, and this. What I already need to do. So he was happy about that at 2 a.m. in the morning. He's like that one up and didn't say a word. Another month went by. Same thing. I called him. He's like that one up too. Third month. I called him. He comes in up Monday morning and he looks at me and he goes, What's wrong? And I'm like, What do you mean? He goes, Why do you keep calling me when you already have the answer to the question? And I'm like, I you know, at the time I I'm dealing with you know, $150,000 worth of equipment. If I tow a tractor trailer full of gasoline, it has a wreck, it's a million dollars, people could die. And he's like, Look, I'm not always gonna be here to answer your question. You're trained, you know what you're doing, but make a decision. Just know why you make it. Even if you're wrong, anything he'll say, I just want to know why you decided that. He says, if you thought that tells me you at least thought about your decision. And he's so from there on, and I still use this today, and I told this to the apprentice, just make a decision, but think about why you're making it as long as you can tell me why, I will not be mad at you, because I know you thought through it the best you could, 99% of the time, you're gonna be right. But it took him to just confront me, and that's what it was, because I was just petrified to make that call. Because I'm like, this is a lot of money, this is a lot on the line, at people people's lives on the line. Of course, I'm in the middle of a city, you know, DC or Baltimore in the middle of the night, not the best places. to be. And he just comes down to it, make a choice. And that's what I try to tell our team. Make a choice. So I told him that story to try and lift him out of the anxiety a little bit. And he is doing much better. Um and and hopefully hopefully that story gave him a a little bit. But yeah, it's it's it's natural. Yeah.

Stefan Feder 21:01

Basically don't overthink it, right?

Dwayne Myers 21:04

If you have the education, but don't overthink it. You have the education and the experience, use the facts and what you know to make a call. I think anyone can work with it.

Jacki Lutz 21:15

Yeah and I think of like kind of what you're talking about too is, you know, having a little bit of anxiety about making a decision because there's so much on the line or whatever. A lot of that is like having a little bit of trust in yourself that if you get yourself into a a mess that you can get yourself out of a mess too. And that's a skill that you build by taking risks and making mistakes. Making mistakes. So like it kind of just goes back to like all of this growth and and another thing you're touching on is really you know taking responsibility for a decision you made.

Anxiety, Decisions, And Learning To Decide

Dwayne Myers 21:46

And the responsibility is really just the the thought process into it. You know, really think about it if you make a choice and you've gone over all everything you know and it's presented to you and you made it you made an educated decision out of it. You're most likely right.

Jacki Lutz 22:02

Most things in life are educated guesses.

Dwayne Myers 22:04

Oh god yes.

Jacki Lutz 22:05

So like we're all guessing.

Dwayne Myers 22:07

Yep.

Jacki Lutz 22:08

Yeah. Absolutely. So what about not being good enough? So maybe not starting something because your insecurity is like you know I don't want to start a podcast because I don't know how to do podcasts. I'm not good enough. You know, something like that. What would you say to somebody who that has that insecurity I mean that follows the line of the imposter syndrome.

Stefan Feder 22:27

Yeah and yeah not being ready not being good enough. So that's I think if you if if somebody gives you a task then that person thinks you are ready. And that person puts that faith in you. And that person may also know that you may fail but that person knows that um you will learn from it you will grow from it and but but you're ready to make that step. Yeah. Even though yourself you're not feeling ready. So if you're if you're giving a task then and and you don't feel ready you still should take that courage to just do it.

Jacki Lutz 23:04

Yeah.

Stefan Feder 23:05

Just do it just try fail adjust grow.

Dwayne Myers 23:08

I look at my team and I and I look at people, friends and all and I I'm I'm I spin things positively and I I see the best in people and what they can do. More so than what they believe they can do. And and I I talk to them and they're like you know I'll I'll tell them you know you should do this. You know you should be a mentor. You should do there's things I I think I I see in you I'm like there's so much you could do and they're like I I don't see that and I said I know you're not there but your journey will take you there if you take the chance to to do that. So I I push I'm a little pushy as a leader when it comes to developing people but I pushed for the right reasons. I had to be careful because I've slightly broken a couple times and I had to go back and help. But 99% of the time uh the push really set them on a trajectory for success. And and they it was in them you know they'll they'll come back and thank me and I'm like I didn't do anything. All I did would was just encourage you a little bit. You know and as you know and as a leader that's that's what we are is we influence. You know and we influence in a positive way and they might not see it yet but you know our vision's a little different. We we see a little longer and a little more in people quite honestly we we just believe in them more than they believe in their self which you know could be your imposter syndrome like you know I know there's boards on one uh and I sit down I'm like all right if we're measuring revenues I've got two commas and they got three and I'm like but you know that that that's in can be intimidating. I've got 60 team members you have 60,000 um but it it but it is a big jump but you think about it um I still belong in that room I have different uh I can bring different things to the table that than uh than what they bring and that still also goes into like building a team where you don't want the same of everybody. Yeah. But uh you have to learn to be comfortable um in your own success and not compare it to someone else's successes. Yeah where I started where I'm at uh you know I I'm very proud of that but I you know and I'm sure the people I'm sitting next to has as well but our journeys were different you know and and uh so you never it's never apples to apples. Yeah. Why compare it and why think that you don't belong there. I there's not a room I go in today that I don't feel that I can belong. I still get worried about it.

Jacki Lutz 25:37

Yeah.

Dwayne Myers 25:37

I still get a little nervous about it and I'm like yeah but I can do this.

Jacki Lutz 25:40

Yeah there's something with like with aging and wisdom where you're like nobody around this table knows everything. Like they nobody like there's things life in the world changes so fast. Like I wouldn't trust anyone for a second who claimed that they knew everything. You know like it's more about those skills of like being a quick learner or being able to adapt and like things like that. That's what really like nobody around that table knows everything that they're doing but some people around that table have a really good way of not knowing what they're doing and figuring it out. You know it's like a skill thing. It's not a knowledge thing.

Imposter Syndrome And Not Feeling Ready

Dwayne Myers 26:14

It's not that you don't belong you might just be less you're in a different stage right well and that's just it everyone's journey is different and we're at different points in our journey and uh quite honestly I feel when you're around a diverse group in that area you grow from that. You know it's it back to the Yang Mentor program uh the people in that program with the the mentees were all leaders. Every single one of them were leaders you know at at the top of their game in their area in their journey where they were at um my journey's just a little longer um but we still learned from each other and I think we grow we grew together as a group through that throughout that year.

Stefan Feder 26:55

100% and the and yeah I wanted to add two things so the uh the one thing again on not being good enough so it's like this waiting for being ready.

Jacki Lutz 27:02

Yeah.

Stefan Feder 27:02

So if you do that then you'll never be ready because how do you get there if you if you don't start? So and if you wait, wait wait then you're you're you're standing still at your point and you'll never reach that point where you're ready. So that's why you need to start your journey you need to start to fail. So otherwise you'll never be ready.

Jacki Lutz 27:19

Yeah.

Stefan Feder 27:19

So so that's that one thought um the other thought um on on what you said on the leader sitting at the table not knowing also like what I feel through my career is the further you grow in your in in uh through on the ladder and and the more you're getting into the leadership role the more you're on the management side the less you're disconnected from the from the day-to-day operational things you have that background you come with it but it might be 10 years old knowledge so and things have changed and so and that is where you're you're getting that disconnection and you you have that lack of information and and that to me is is my biggest contributor on insecurity is like okay hey I know that's how it used to be 10-15 years ago but hey maybe it has changed and I'm acting based on that what I'm convinced of is the right move but there are other voices that say no we need to go that direction we know we need to go that direction and based on the information that they have. So we all make decisions based on the information that they have and also coming back to your diversity and the info and and and really everyone is contributing to the table. So we all see information differently based on our experience. So and we all you you get all these different influences and one says we need to go that way the other one says we need to go that way and you have your own thing which is maybe I don't know where we need to go in circles. So um but then that really contribute to that insecurity is like hey we all see that differently we all have different information and really how do you pick the one which is then really the right course. Right.

Dwayne Myers 28:53

So that's where I I think you you gotta rely on your team and the people you work with.

Stefan Feder 28:58

Yeah.

Dwayne Myers 28:59

Because I I don't have grease all over my hands and have it for 10 years and you know when it comes to fixing cars I I am no longer the expert even in the sales process. I was just in a marketing class and they're asking questions and I'm like I I don't know. I don't have that answer that because I'm not the one that does that anymore. And and I'm 100% good because I do believe you got to let go so you can do new and uh but that's where as a leader it's okay to look to your team to give you the the current what's currently going on because what was going on 10 years ago I mean just in the workforce it has changed drastically in the last five years much less 10. And if you're still doing what motivated you 20 years ago you you're gonna have workforce issues. So that's where as a leader it it's okay and and then that's not failure. That's just using your resources to actually learn.

Leaders Don’t Know It All

Stefan Feder 29:51

Absolutely but that was my biggest misconception when I started my career because I saw the leader always as the person that knows it all. So that was my biggest misconception when I started and then uh it which which also was intimidating to not speak up because hey I already know that hey if that person in the room with his role he he already knows it so I don't need to speak up but on your journey and then you go to the other side so you are that person that maybe others see that Mr know it all you know that you have no idea. So and you need you need the input of the others.

Dwayne Myers 30:27

Clueless after no what what we what we know is how to have the resources and how to build the team that we can get the information we need to to the big picture information to make the calls we gotta make. I feel that's a mistake because honestly um you know it's like working on cars for us that that's uh an operational thing um where I feel you know they're they're fixing a car a product doing something building something making something you can put that in any part of our industry leadership's about people and and if you're worried about all the nuances of what makes a BMW run how are you working on the people as the leader our job's people so we gotta let go of all the control of of the operational stuff. Now we guide it it's important to guide it to make sure that we're staying on vision mission or values uh but we're not we're not the ones that do the day to day so then that's when we rely on our networks and our people and then our people need to know that I'm relying on you to give me the answers because I don't have them.

Stefan Feder 31:43

The answers or the input you rely on the team you speak up if you go the wrong way because oh I know mine really quick.

Jacki Lutz 31:51

I relate so much to what you said Stefan because I you know sometimes people will ask me about podcasts now like I'm some kind of expert in podcasts something I knew nothing about 12 months ago. Like look at you now well it's just funny like that should tell you everything you need to know about imposter syndrome and thinking thinking you're not good enough and you not knowing the journey like I like to share the journey because it's there's been so a lot of fumbles along the way I like to share it so that people see like anybody can do anything but you're not going to do much if you just sit around and and you're you're worried that you're not good enough today. You know like some of the biggest experts knew nothing at one point.

Dwayne Myers 32:29

Well it just makes you very relatable. When you do that peep people can connect with you. Yeah that to me that's just being smart.

Jacki Lutz 32:36

Yeah so um the last one and this was the biggest one was uh being judged by others and I think this would have been my so you so you said which one was your probably you would have chosen this one yeah judging okay what about you um actually I I'll have to agree with that one this would have been mine. Um it used to stop me from doing a lot of things. So I am very curious about your guys' thoughts on this one.

Being Judged And Finding Your Voice

Dwayne Myers 33:04

You know it's a sometimes we worry about what people think about us um and what we do. You know they they see a result or something we did and have no idea all the whys behind the decision we had to make um but yeah there's people out there that have do not know me at all um that don't care for me and I'm like I don't even know this person but I'd love to go meet him. Some people look at us all right he's successful and I'm like well it I I got plenty of blunders you know but they see that and there's a reason not to like me for it. And I'm like I in at one point in my life it actually bothered me a little bit I'm like why why do you not like me and then I finally just realized that you know it that's your problem not mine. I I I'm not the problem here. And uh but it's kind of funny though and and and it does make you wonder and and worry but really in the end you gotta be happy with yourself and and what you're doing and how you're taking care of your team and things like that. That that's what's important not what the outside world thinks yeah.

Stefan Feder 34:10

If if you think about how you're growing up like school for example you're constantly being judged right you're getting grades so hey and and and then if you bring good grades at home you're also being judged at home hey you you're being applauded if you're bringing good grades home you have different reactions if you're not bringing a good get good grade home depending on your I mean depending on your household that might have caused or or bring out different reactions. So you're constantly being judged and you want to be judged in a positive way. So and also then if you then start your professional life and your career and if you're eager and you you know you you you have that long-term vision where hey one day you want to be in that leadership position you know that in order to go there especially in the corporate world where I started is in order to advance you will be judged by others your performance will be judged and you so you want to constantly show a good performance in order to yeah the because the better or the more constantly you're judged on good performance, you the faster you may be able to climb that ladder. So and that's contributing to yeah that hey better not make a mistake better look always smart um don't ask questions that may be dumb right so there's just like this constant because you feel you're constantly judged because you wanna you want to advance so and that's I think what contributed to my early days in the career of really being intimidated or insecure in in asking questions that may be helpful for me but yeah you're holding back because it's like if I ask that question maybe they think I've I have no idea what I'm doing. So this is like really this being judged of others and which which really is yeah don't hold back. So because your question may help others in the room um and asking a question shows that you are really thinking about it.

Dwayne Myers 35:54

So I think it shows engagement you know where where you're you're actively a part of something where when you're quiet you know not that you're not engaged but it you you don't see the demonstration of it. Yeah the questions are great and I was never great at asking questions for the longest time. I've gotten better at it because I found out that I make better choices and decisions when I do.

Stefan Feder 36:14

No but it's it and if you think about that if you're uh now flipping the side and there's a big meeting you have five people in the room and there's one person that has not said a single word has not asked a single question you ask yourself why was that person even in the room?

Jacki Lutz 36:27

Yeah. So and maybe they don't need a seat at the table.

Stefan Feder 36:31

Right. So and and rather ask a question that does not make sense um but as you said it shows engagement.

Jacki Lutz 36:38

So yeah I I relate a lot to like a lot of what you said and I think like I had an instance a few years ago where I just found out like for it felt like for the first time in my whole life like there was people kind of like poking fun and didn't like me and I'm like oh my God well I mean what am I doing? You know I need to just disappear. And I was like frozen. But I think what I realized when I was like getting through that is a lot of like for every person who judges you or doesn't like you who doesn't barely even know you there's a lot of people that feel the exact opposite and you need to just like focus on the people you're inspiring or the people that do like you or do encourage you and focus on focus on the good because there's some people that I always just joke in like the keynotes and stuff that I do that some people just want to watch the world burn. I think that's a Batman quote. But they really they exist. They're like somebody is happy somebody's doing well I don't like it and they want to tear it down. You know it's just like their it's just like their nature. And I just think it's just such a shame that so many people will take that and then not do great things because you know I think even if you don't like what somebody's doing if you have the right kind of attitude you'll see the good in what they're doing. You'll see what they're trying to do. It's like when I see people trying new things like a lot of people um ask me about you know advice on LinkedIn and things like that. And everybody's afraid to post on LinkedIn because they get judged right like a lot of people make assumptions about people who talk about themselves too much or like it's it's not you know it's it's there's a facade around it. But I whenever I see somebody new kind of starting to post on LinkedIn I'm so proud of them. I'm like that is hard to do that shows bravery yeah it wasn't like didn't get a bunch of likes and it wasn't a super engaging post. The algorithm you know wasn't quite right whatever but I'm like good for them like I just think that there's a certain kind of person in this world that you're never going to impress.

Final Takeaways On Fear And Judgment

Dwayne Myers 38:33

Yeah but it's like here you have first time trainers and I'll I overly support a first time trainer especially when they prepare try everything they can do and they get up and they're not the most polished and they fumble a little bit. That's okay we all we're we're here to cheer you on and all and and I'll afterwards I'll make sure I congratulate them and thank them and and if they ask like you know what can I do to be better which a lot do you know constructive you know things to help you say a lot.

Jacki Lutz 39:02

Where do I stay let me get this list out.

Dwayne Myers 39:06

We meter we meter that and you know but but that's what gets them better.

Jacki Lutz 39:10

Yeah yeah those are great points. So um I guess you know in closing you know if if somebody were to take away one thing from our conversation what do each of you hope that it is I had a good thought along the way but I lost it so I let Gwyn sell it now I'm scared.

Dwayne Myers 39:28

It's because it's day two of Apex You know and what I'm gonna what I'm gonna share is what really made a big difference for me. Um because fear used to hold me back. Um don't let fear define you uh be brave try new things get out of your skin get out of your comfort zone and it you might be amazed at what you accomplish and all the people you're able to help along the way. So don't let fear define you.

Stefan Feder 40:03

That's good one. Like it's um I had a completely different thought along the way but I lost it so I'm picking up something new. So um on the line of um being judged by others is like you'll you're judged by others no matter what regardless if you do something or if you're not doing something. So and then rather yeah be in that driver's seat. What what's the opposite call is it?

Jacki Lutz 40:23

What?

Stefan Feder 40:24

It's not driver's seat, right? We're not on the driver's seat. Oh carpool conversation You're on the driver's seat in the car no so be in the driver's seat and and just try it because you will be judged no matter what. Yeah. So and maybe that's not my takeaway that I think you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

Dwayne Myers 40:38

Yeah but I'd rather do it. I'd rather be damned for trying that you're that's that's positive you're moving forward and the likelihood of making a good call.

Jacki Lutz 40:47

Yeah. Yeah and mine is probably speaking to a very niche audience, but um I don't know, some something I learned is that you're not gonna be for everybody and you sh shouldn't be for everybody and that's okay. So if you lose some people along the way, as long as you're also growing, I think that you're doing a good thing by honing in on an audience, honing in on like your circle, honing in on your group, and it doesn't have to be everybody. And if you're just as quick to let those people go as they were to judge you in the first place, I think it's it's kind of a freeing Yeah you can't be everything for everyone.

Stefan Feder 41:24

Yeah.

Jacki Lutz 41:24

Yeah.

Stefan Feder 41:25

Pick and choose and do the right thing for the people that you that you care about and that you like.

Jacki Lutz 41:29

Exactly. Yeah. Well thank you guys.

Stefan Feder 41:33

Thank you.

Jacki Lutz 41:33

What a ride. Yeah absolutely we've arrived I really appreciate you guys coming on. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Auto Care on Air. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast so that you never miss an episode. And don't forget to leave us a rating and review. It helps others discover our show. Auto Care on Air is proud to be a production of the Auto Care Association dedicated to advancing the autocare industry and supporting professionals like you. To learn more about the association and its initiatives visit autocare.org