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Tuesday Talks!
Join me for weekly discussions about ALL things education...from preschool through high school! As a mom, Speech Language Pathologist, and educator, I share my personal experiences related to each week's topic in relatable and informative ways.
My message about education is powerful: Reflecting on what is and making waves to cause change!
Tuesday Talks!
Reading Between the Lines: The Crisis of High School Graduates Who Can't Read
Send us your thoughts about this week's episode!
When a Tennessee high schooler with a 3.4 GPA graduated unable to read or write and successfully sued his school district, it exposed a devastating reality in American education. How can students progress through twelve years of schooling without mastering fundamental literacy skills?
Dr. Nikki Anthony, special education advocate and dyslexia specialist, joins Coach Val and Dr. Tiff to unpack this critical issue. She explains that dyslexia – a neurological difference affecting phonological processing – often gets buried under generic "learning disabilities" classifications in schools, resulting in inadequate interventions that fail to address students' specific needs.
The conversation reveals alarming truths about how schools sometimes prioritize graduation statistics over genuine student success. While a school might proudly display "100% Graduation Rate" on its marquee, that achievement rings hollow when graduates lack essential reading skills. Dr. Anthony emphasizes that dyslexia can be identified as early as age 5.5, yet many students aren't diagnosed until third grade—if ever—costing them years of potential intervention.
Parents learning to advocate for their children will find invaluable guidance here. From recognizing early warning signs (delayed speech, letter reversals, rhyming difficulties) to navigating the complex special education system, Dr. Anthony provides a roadmap for ensuring children receive appropriate support. She stresses that parents should start with pediatricians for proper referrals, understand the evaluation process, and recognize their own expertise about their children when working with school teams.
Has your family experienced challenges with dyslexia or reading instruction? Share your story and join the conversation about how we can better serve all learners.
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Tuesday Talks is hosted by Dr. Tiffany. She has been a Speech/Language Pathologist for 20 years. She's also a speaker and educational consultant. Dr. Tiffany hosts webinars and in-person workshops for teachers and parents.
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Hey, hey, hey, coach Val. What's going on? Dr Tiff, how are you today? I'm good, happy.
Speaker 2:Tuesday Happy Tuesday. Y'all know it's our favorite day of the week. Thanks everybody for joining us for tonight's episode. We appreciate you being here with us. Make sure you share this episode with a friend, a colleague, a family member. Remember, all things education we're discussing. So if you have a kid in preschool through 12th grade, you want to be tuning in every week. If you teach in any of those grades, you're definitely going to want to be tuning in every week as well. So we have another great topic for you all. Tonight we're going to be talking about kids graduating but still not being able to read, which, if you think about that, in our public school system in the US, you get all the way to 12th grade, you have graduated and received your diploma, but you can't read. How is that possible? Coach Val, that's the question that came to mind.
Speaker 1:That is the question of the day. Literally, it's like isn't that what the certificate that they give you is supposed to represent? You have the necessary skills and strategies and critical thinking abilities that you need to go out here and be successful. And one of the first things you need to go out here and be successful, and one of the first things you need to be successful is to be able to read. You got signs, you got job descriptions, you got applications to fill out. You need to read the words on the paper.
Speaker 2:Right, and it's such a huge focus in schools reading and math, reading and math that's what they focus on all the time they're tested on it at the end of the school year. It is something that is well-funded in the school system in the sense of them constantly bringing in different curriculum to teach kids how to read. There's such a heavy emphasis on it. So how could this be happening in the United States? And what brought this to mind was Instagram posts that we saw with a high schooler in Tennessee suing his school district after he graduated with a 3.4 GPA so very good GPA yet couldn't read or write, and he said public school education failed him. And that was a really eye-catching headline, because the school has a sign out front. In the post on Instagram it shows a picture of the sign out front of the high school says 100% graduation, and so it begs the question does that percentage mean much if you're graduating students who can't read? What were your thoughts when you saw this Instagram post, val?
Speaker 1:I mean, as a teacher who's been in the education system for 18 and a half years, I was kind of upset that I wasn't as surprised as I thought I should be. In this sense, there's a lot of things that are happening in education. Like you said, there's a push for math, there's a push for reading and, along with that push, a lot of the solutions that are being presented are not giving the kids the foundation that they need. They're getting scores, they're not getting the actual foundation and the skills, and so it also made me ask the question, like because they said that the school missed the dyslexia diagnosis, and so my question was how did that happen? From kindergarten, pre-k to 12th grade, this baby couldn't read, but he's got an 8.5. So that was the question that came to my mind how did a diagnosis like dyslexia get missed? And then, once they found out, what was the school supposed to do about it?
Speaker 2:Right, and so we did a little bit of digging to find the news article related to the Instagram post. And so, in February of 2025, it was found that the school system had not properly addressed his dyslexia, despite providing him an IEP an individual education, individualized education plan. So the student had been receiving IEP-based services to address his reading, but he failed to improve in his reading throughout his middle and high school years, and so the judge did rule against the school district. So in that student's favor, affirming that the district did not provide him with the free appropriate education, also known as FAPE, as required by law. And we've talked about special education on here a lot. It can afford your child some specialized instruction, but in my experience in schools as a speech therapist, I've said in meetings many times with kids who have dyslexia and the school has no expert there to help address dyslexia. Help address dyslexia. The special education teachers that I haven't worked with have, you know, background in teaching kids how to read, but not specifically addressing dyslexia. So we have a special treat for you all tonight.
Speaker 2:We have a special guest. Her name is Nikki Anthony and she is a dyslexia expert, and we are going to ask her some questions because we want to know how this happened to this kid. How is dyslexia being addressed in the schools? And if your kid or a student in your class has dyslexia, how do you prevent this from being the outcome for them? We don't want our kids graduating from high school and not being able to read. So with that, I will bring miss nikki anthony to the stage. How's it?
Speaker 1:going. Hey, dr annie hello nice to see you.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us tonight. So I first wanted to start by just having you share a little bit about your background and experience with dyslexia.
Speaker 3:Sure, so my name is Dr Nikki Anthony. I'm living and residing in Florida. I've taught in three different school districts here in the state of Florida. All of my years in education were in special education. So I had the opportunity to work with a myriad of students, a myriad of disabilities identified by the state of Florida, dyslexia being one of them. But it falls under the umbrella of learning disabilities, which we probably know. Disconnect within the school system, between home and school, happens when you are trying to support a student with dyslexia because the school district calls it learning disability and they treat it as an umbrella, basically umbrella heading, and so you know everything that goes under that gets almost the same kind of accommodations and supports. It's like cookie cutter almost. It's not as special as what it should be, especially when it comes to an identification like dyslexia for children who experience dyslexia. So I have worked with students across the board, like I said, and dyslexia is one of those really touchy subjects because if the parents aren't well-versed in advocating for their child and that's not a slight, it's just a hard special education is hard to navigate, period. But if you know, the parent is not aware of what dyslexia looks like. They've only heard the little sound bites you know, oh you know, letter reversals or things like that. You know they've only heard these small bits and they don't know a wider scope of what it entails. Then it's hard to navigate and really get your child the support that you need. You know, and a lot of times I've seen where parents have become like the bear in the room for trying to advocate for their children but advocating from an uninformed space, and so I think I love this, this forum, and the opportunity for you all to bring home and school together in a safe space. Teach parents how to advocate and maybe teach, you know, educators how to advocate for the children that they serve as well. You know.
Speaker 3:So for me, I don't. I wouldn't call myself a dyslexia expert. I share with Valerie. I wouldn't call myself a dyslexia expert. I share with Valerie for me. I was a teacher that absolutely loved my students and because there wasn't enough information talking about dyslexia, it was just like I said, it fell under the umbrella of a learning disability. That wasn't enough for me, because I saw kids who needed more than what I was told to put on an IEP, or it was suggested to go on an IEP. That's not going to work. You know, I've been doing this. We did this in RTI. This isn't enough. So what do we do next? And so I'm more of a passionate educator that love my kids enough to do some digging and to not be okay with just passing them through without them growing in an area that they struggled in. So if that makes me an expert, I'll take it, but if not I am Dr Nikki Anthony, a special education advocate, a proponent.
Speaker 3:I love special education hands down, but I have moved more into the advocacy side to teach parents how to advocate for their children, and that's who I am.
Speaker 2:I love that so much. Thank you for sharing your background and I definitely would consider you a dyslexia expert and I love that it came out of you wanting to help your students thrive and grow in their knowledge. This Instagram post that Val and I talked about at the top of the episode. Were you kind of shocked by that? Like having a student graduate from high school but not being able to read.
Speaker 3:Not at all.
Speaker 2:It happens.
Speaker 3:Most of my work has been in. When I was in this in the system was with primary age students. My last three years I spent in staffing in special education. So I did see, you know these students who were struggling readers that were moving into graduation, because I worked with from elementary on through high school. So I did see that and, no, it's not shocking, it's unfortunate, very unfortunate, because it has become a culture of pushing students through, of making sure the school has the grade, of making sure that we look good on paper, making sure we look good to the state, all these different things. And that's fine and good if it's showing up for real in the students' lives and how they are, you know, matriculating, if they're really grasping concepts, if they're really going to be prepared for post-secondary education and options, you know. And that's not necessarily the case, you know. So it didn't really shock me. I think more of the shock it sounds like it might be a seminal case in that it set a precedent. You can't just continue to push kids through without them knowing how to read. In my studies for my dissertation I found that reading is basically it's a human right. So how many children are not being served their basic human rights. How many people you know?
Speaker 3:If there's a learning disability involved, like dyslexia, then it means we have to do our due diligence to support people in accessing the learning that they have a gap in. You know, we don't get to just shovel them on and push them through. And you know, I hope you get it next year. Maybe you'll have a better teacher next year. No, it's too much available. If we would do our due diligence, if we would do research, if we would seek out support, if the school districts would adopt programs that work for children with dyslexia, you know, and then not only adopt them, but now you have to teach your teachers. Not only teach your teachers, but make sure they're doing it with diligence. Make sure they're doing it with diligence. Make sure they're doing it with fidelity.
Speaker 3:Go back and check. Have school-based leaders in this. You know so. There's so much that can be done and I feel like we frivolously spend money in areas that won't need to. Why you gotta have a new curriculum every year. Get something that works, and if you know it works exactly, let it ride. You know exactly why are we trying something different the next year? Because that's your friend. You bought the program from your friend. Maybe I'm doing too much now, but you, you know, I love, exactly I love how everything you're hitting on.
Speaker 1:We've had episodes about all of it okay so it I.
Speaker 1:I love the fact that, um, you are now a parent advocate, because in this space, it's even more important now than it has ever been, with all of these different pushes that the government is trying to push down and that how administrators are administrating these things, like you just said, the frivolous spending, especially with the COVID funds that were an influx of finances, and how they got dispersed that most of the time, was not what the kids needed, or not even what the teachers needed. You got into this as a passionate teacher. There are tons of passionate teachers that are in the classrooms every single day at all levels who are crying out, screaming for the professional development that they need. The stuff that they're being given is not adequate for their kids in their state, in their school. And we've gotten this one size fits all standardized test success model. That needs to be changed. Yeah, so I, yeah I love that.
Speaker 2:Yes, I want to back up just a little bit for maybe people who are watching who don't truly know what dyslexia is, like you said, some of those hallmark characteristics, letter reversals. But can you just share a little bit more about what dyslexia is?
Speaker 3:Sure, so I'm going to give you two definitions. I did some research because I want to stay current. I haven't been in the classroom in a few years, so it's going to sound like I'm reading because I am OK. Yeah, basically dyslexia is neurologically based. It can be inherited. So a lot of times if you have had a parent that has experienced reading difficulty, they're going to pass that down in some kind of form to a child. A grandchild is going to get passed down, basically, and it's a difficulty with phonological processing. So it's not necessarily phonics Most people think it's phonics that causes or is one of the causations for dyslexia. It's not, it's phonological awareness. So it's how you process sounds and you're an SLP, you know you can probably highlight that more than me I was just going to say for parents that phonics piece.
Speaker 2:if you think back to Hooked on Phonics, you're correlating a sound to a letter. Yes, that's the phonics piece. That phonological awareness is. How do we manipulate students in words so sound?
Speaker 3:manipulation is encoding, is decoding, is you know? An example would be if I have the word cat and I take off the C, the C, and I don't even give you C, if I say I have the word cat and I take off C and I add R, what is it going to be? That is the process that children with dyslexia are lacking. And I do want to say this this is a hill I will die on. Person first language, person first language. I hear people who are the quote-unquote experts saying dyslexics. I think that's very dehumanizing and this is a hill I will die on. As a special education professional, identify the person and then the disability or the challenge. You wouldn't say a diabetic, a person with diabetes. You wouldn't say an anorexic, a person who is struggling with anorexia, right, so just don't dehumanize people. I think that's what makes it hard to accept that maybe there's something different about how I learn as a person with dyslexia, because you've identified my disability before you've identified me as a person. So that's my heel, that's my little spiel for today.
Speaker 2:I wholeheartedly agree with you on that.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Dyslexia is neurologically based and so I think, in the school system again going back to how the school system operates a lot of parents say you know, if they're requesting testing, I need y'all to diagnose my child with, and the school system does not diagnose. So you have to become aware. I think a lot of the difficulty might be the language, knowing how to use the language that the school district uses so that you can advocate in a way that they're going to understand. You don't come in there looking uninformed. So you go in and you're saying it looks like we need to determine eligibility, I need testing done, y'all have 60 days to do right, or whatever the timeframe is.
Speaker 3:So neurologically based is, with phonological processing, how you manipulate sounds, just as Dr Tiffany said, and it's a lot of times different modalities of learning aren't tapped into to help support and I guess we'll get to that, talking about intervention and whatnot. But every child learns differently and I think one problem that we see, maybe even with the example that you all shared, was that probably this child was taught a specific way all those years in school. You know, sit and get. You just got to sit, you got to soak it up. Every child doesn't learn that way, and so you have to incorporate the different modalities of learning visual learners, audio, auditorial. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:audio kinetic and tactile learning. You have to incorporate all those different modalities. So those are some areas that I think are lacking in regards to the school system and supporting, but also this umbrella, well, this disability known as dyslexia.
Speaker 2:That's so informative because I think a lot of people just think of dyslexia in that kind of standard cookie cutter way. What are some of the early signs of dyslexia? If parents or teachers are thinking okay, this kid is not catching on, we're now here later into the school year and they're still struggling with reading concepts that we addressed at the beginning of the school year, what are some of those early signs that teachers and parents can look for?
Speaker 3:Sure. So delayed speech, how they pronounce words, so it's cute when it's little, certain words you know, like elephant, oh the effluent, you know things like that. But those are usually telltale signs moving forward. If they never can get that correction, if you're always correcting and it stays the same, have this static response after the correction. That's a sign. Reversals it's not just letters, directionality issues and concerns mixing up sounds and syllables, stuttering, and I'm sure, dr Tiffany, you've probably experienced this, because one of the things that I know when I work with students with dyslexia and we had to redo the IEPs, one of my recommendations was speech and language, and that's something that you won't necessarily get when you're looking at it just as a learning disability. So that's why it's important to go in informed and know what's needed and then advocate for the testing that will support what the student said you know is needing as far as a student with dyslexia, difficulty in establishing a dominant hand. So if they get to kindergarten and they're still switching between right and left writing, you know when they're writing. That's another telltale sign.
Speaker 3:Tying their shoes I thought that was neat. I remember going to a conference and so I'm sharing a lot of what I heard and this was like 2016. But the speaker, her name, is Susan Barton. I was about to say Sandra, susan Barton, but that was one of the things I heard like wow, tying shoes. But again it goes back to directionality and all of those things. Another recommendation that we've had to make is OT for things like tactile and whatnot. Yeah, trouble memorizing simple things like an address or you know phone numbers or street names or states or letters, or, and then having relatives that are experienced, who have dyslexia, relatives that are experienced, who who have dyslexia. We talked about that one earlier and it moves up like as they get a little bit older. Those are preschool signs that you can look for.
Speaker 3:As you get into middle school, it looks like spelling, like even after you've had that phonics instruction that everybody says is so key, I still still can't spell. You know it turns into reading difficulties. Then you know, and it's more so, not more so, but one of the areas that gets highlighted in reading as far as difficulty is fluency. So, whereas you know, maybe by first grade they can read I don't know 25 words a minute. That might be low, just giving an example. Maybe a student with dyslexia can only get eight words a minute right. And so you have this disparity between what the expectation is as far as how they read with fluency versus what they're actually able to do, read with fluency versus what they're actually able to do, and these are the things that start to show up as signs that you probably need to be looking at getting some support and being really dogmatic about going to the school system, because, although there is that medical piece as far as neurological you know it being neurologically based the support happens in the school system more often than not.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, that's really important. I think it's so good for people to know what some of those early signs are for the younger kids that's more of my wheelhouse and I know about you with more in the older kids, so seeing how that can show up in older kids too is really helpful. And you mentioned how schools don't diagnose. Schools typically are not evaluating for dyslexia. They're evaluating for reading challenges, and so then I always like to tell parents start with your pediatrician, talk to your pediatrician about what you're noticing with your child, what your teacher is sharing about what they're noticing with your child, and then that way the pediatrician can guide you to the right diagnostician that can get you evaluated for dyslexia.
Speaker 2:Because if your child is demonstrating some of those characteristics that Dr Nikki just talked about, the school isn't necessarily equipped with the right assessment tools or the right staff to be able to test specifically for dyslexia. They may piece together some components that give an overall picture of what you already know, which is my child's having trouble learning how to read, but the specifics that go along with dyslexia you're going to have to go to an outside agency, and I know sometimes money can be a factor because not all parents have access to the right person who can get their child tested and not cost a bunch of money. But that's really going to be the best place to start. So I tell parents to start with a pediatrician so that they can guide and direct you in that. I know that sometimes parents can have questions about like should I read to my child? How should I correct them at home? What kind of guidance can parents do at home to help support what's happening in school?
Speaker 3:I don't ever think it's wrong to reach out to a child. I don't know that that's the immediate fix if you will Definitely keep literacy rich environments definitely, because you don't want to make it look like reading isn't a fun thing, right? And I think with children with dyslexia, children with reading difficulties, period a lot of times reading is not fun to me anymore, you know, because this is where I experienced my failure, this is where my hardships show up. You know, I might be excellent in math, I could be excellent in science, but when it comes to reading, this is where I suck at it, you know, and this is where everybody gets to see my weakness. So make it a fun activity. Parents can definitely do that. But again, going back to this space of advocacy, I think that's very, very important, definitely starting with the pediatrician, because now you have an expert in medicine that can speak to these concerns that you're having and they also can give you language on the medical side to speak to the school district and more often than not, if you're seeing consistent signs or signs that are consistent with dyslexia and you're communicating that to the pediatrician, they're going to ask for evaluation. I've seen it as a staffing specialist.
Speaker 3:I really think the school district should request, should do testing, right? School districts hate to do testing, let me tell you that, right. If it's not every three years, if you want something more frequent than every three years, if the child has already been placed into special education, they hate to do it. I'm telling you they do because it does cost, because you have a lot, you have a team, but that team is where the informed decisions are made, and so as many people as touch that child, those should be the people that are part of that child's team. If that pediatrician is touching that child, as far as hearing your concerns, making recommendations, that is a part of the team, right. If you have an SLP that has been giving you suggestions and recommendations for things you can do, an OT, occupational therapist that's a part of the team, and parents should know that you can invite these people to these meetings. You don't start off with an IEP, there's a whole process. So let me say that A lot of times, parents go in again uninformed.
Speaker 3:They want what they want, you know, and that's fine, that's good, but there's still a process. So, again, go in informed, know that there's a starting point. Usually that starts with with I need my child tested, right? These are the reasons why. And then that team begins to form around that child. Who are the experts that know this child? The parent is definitely an expert, so don't ever go in thinking that someone knows more about your child than you do. They might have an expertise because of their educational background, their training, whatnot, but that's your child, so you need to be able to speak up for your child, right. And so that team begins to problem solve. It's a problem solving team, and this is where you're weeding out.
Speaker 3:Doesn't sound like this, so we might not need to go in that direction. Does sound like this? So this is the direction we need to go in, right, and so, going along with the process, staying informed, keeping people up to date and abreast of what's going on with the child changes that you're seeing there should be interventions that are implemented right, and the interventions need to reflect what the issue is. I talked about RTI. That is something I think is used nationwide responsive intervention and this team should be a part of that RTI process. Maybe not everyone is doing the intervention, but this team should be aware of what the progress is for the child. What's the intervention that's being used for this child? If the intervention is for phonics and we've already said that dyslexia is a phonological awareness this is language-based. Basically, why are we doing phonics? Why haven't y'all found an intervention that's for phonics? So you're wasting time right.
Speaker 3:And these are the things that parents I think parents can do as far as being advocates, you know, start pulling games that help to work on, like, rhyming skills, because those are telltale signs of, you know, pre-K children, have worked with pre-K children and those are some of the skills that they develop rhyming, right. You want to be able to say you know, rat, cat, dog, bat, which one doesn't work. They should be able to pick out which one doesn't work. If they're not able to, that's a sign, that's another sign, right?
Speaker 3:So find games that would support phonological development, phonological awareness, phonemic awareness, development. Right, those things you can get at school stores, educational-based stores. Right, you can look online on Amazon, you can type it up. So these are small things that you can do to support what's going on and if there's a true disability, if dyslexia is really at play, don't get frustrated when they're not as successful as you think you want them to be. I think that's something that happens with students, with teachers, with parents. I've seen it. You get frustrated and you want to give up. For what? Now you're seeing what you're working with. Now you're seeing what the problem is.
Speaker 2:No, we don't give up now.
Speaker 3:Now we dig in. So these are things that I think parents can do. If you're talking to a pediatrician, maybe ask about language support, because you can get private language therapy. You can get private language therapy. You can get private speech therapy. Right, going through your insurance, because it's going to be a longer process going through the school system. It is a longer process and be willing to endure the process. But there are things you can do that might be a little faster, like going through private insurance, if money is not a problem or if you can find the money to support what you need to get done, right, right. So I think those are things that parents can do.
Speaker 1:I love that absolutely that was that was so valuable and so informative and for me, coming from the parent side of me, like just hearing some of those things to look for, is super helpful, especially the things from a younger age, because I've always assumed that you want to know as soon as possible but you also don't want to know like too early, because sometimes it could just be that child's development that they'll grow out of versus an actual diagnosable disability. So, dr Nikki, what would you say? How soon can a child be diagnosed with dyslexia In?
Speaker 3:the research it said as early as age five and a half. So children get into third grade before they finally say you know what? I think this is learning disability. We ain't going to call it dyslexia. Still, I'm telling you they don't want to call it dyslexia. I'm telling you, because it requires a whole other set of specialized instruction, that a lot of times they don't want to call it dyslexia. I'm telling you, because it requires a whole nother set of specialized instruction, that a lot of times they don't. The school districts they may have money for, but they don't want to use the money for that. Just be honest.
Speaker 3:Right, but as early as five and a half children can be screened and then begin to get tested. So just another process thing you start with screeners more often than not in special education, right? Or as you're going through and thinking this child might need special education, you start with a screener first. And a screener is not an evaluation, it's just a quick little assessment to see if let me see if they check all these marks, then maybe we need to move to a full evaluation. So don't get frustrated if they say, okay, we'll do a screener. But also don't get duped in stopping with the screener If there's more that should be done or that you feel should be done.
Speaker 2:Right, so go again so as early as five and a half children can be tested, screened and evaluated for dyslexia. I love that that is so helpful. We've talked about the pitfalls of special education on here, importance of advocacy and parents educating themselves. I think this information you shared today has been really helpful for parents and teachers, because I know a lot of times teachers aren't really familiar with what to look for either. So thank you so much. You have given us so much knowledge. We're gonna have to have you back on and dig a little deeper into something Definitely sounds like a part two opportunity to me.
Speaker 2:Definitely so. Thanks to everybody for joining us tonight for episode. I'm going to put Dr Nikki's website in our show notes and show description so you can feel free to reach out and connect with her If you have any additional questions. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Thank, you so much. Thanks everyone for watching. Be sure to join us next Tuesday same time, 9 PM, right here on YouTube, also streaming on Apple podcasts and Spotify as well. Share this episode with a friend. See you next week, you.