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Tuesday Talks!
Join me for weekly discussions about ALL things education...from preschool through high school! As a mom, Speech Language Pathologist, and educator, I share my personal experiences related to each week's topic in relatable and informative ways.
My message about education is powerful: Reflecting on what is and making waves to cause change!
Tuesday Talks!
Think for Yourself: Teaching Kids to Own Their Learning
Send us your thoughts about this week's episode!
Dr. Tiff and Coach Val explore how children often listen for instructions rather than understanding, and why teaching kids to own their thinking is crucial for success. They share strategies for helping students become independent thinkers instead of passive instruction-followers.
• Students are often trained to listen for what to do rather than listening to understand
• Self-reflection is necessary for parents and teachers to recognize how they may encourage dependency
• Breaking information into smaller chunks helps students process concepts more effectively
• Building independence requires gradually reducing explicit instruction over time
• Creating a safe environment for students to acknowledge challenges builds resilience
• Celebrating when students identify difficulties rather than sheltering them from struggle
• Humanizing the teacher-student relationship creates trust that encourages independent thinking
• Starting the school year with clear expectations about student thinking sets the foundation
Share your thoughts on implementing these strategies in your classroom or home! Email us through the link in our show notes or comment on our social media.
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Tuesday Talks is hosted by Dr. Tiffany. She has been a Speech/Language Pathologist for 20 years. She's also a speaker and educational consultant. Dr. Tiffany hosts webinars and in-person workshops for teachers and parents.
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Hey, hey, hey. What's up, Dr Tiff?
Speaker 2:Happy Tuesday. Happy Tuesday to you too, Coach Val. How's it going?
Speaker 1:It is going great. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm doing good, except for this pollen out here. That is a different story. So, other than that, everything's going great. Thanks everybody for joining us tonight for another episode of Tuesday Talks, and once again, I think we have another amazing topic making sure that we know whether our kids are thinking for themselves and teaching them to own their own thinking. And what really got us talking about this as we developed the show was some personal experiences that we had. I want to start with yours, Val. You want to share your story.
Speaker 1:like guided us towards this topic of like what is going on with the kids absolutely, because I, if you follow us for any amount of time, you know I'm good for a good old educator story and experience, okay. So, um, since I stopped teaching in the classroom and got my new job at GPB, I've still been tutoring and so I still get those kid interactions one on one. Well, this particular story is about one of my clients and we were going over like a geometry concept. Going over like a geometry concept I don't want to scare anybody, but we were talking about circumference and area in those formulas using pie, and so she was struggling, she was having a hard time and I realized that, okay, I need to break this down and start at the beginning, the basics, like the absolute foundation, right. So I do that. But I've been doing this long enough, where I also know starting from the beginning also means using like simple sentences, like I'm not throwing a whole bunch of vocabulary or anything and don't use a lot.
Speaker 1:So I started and gave her two, said two simple sentences to her and stopped and said tell me what you understood. And she looks at me with a blank stare and says so I'm like OK, this frustrates me as a a teacher, as it does most teachers and parents, I know. And so I look at her before I repeat it again. I recognize the problem and I said listen, what I said to you was not complicated, like it wasn't overly, you know. You know, like using big words and stuff.
Speaker 1:I said what you did was you were listening for me to tell you what to do and you were not hearing anything else, because it didn't sound like what to do and therefore you don't know what I said.
Speaker 1:I need you to stop listening for what to do and I need you to listen to understand what I'm saying to you. And she still just she kind of looked and I said so we're gonna try this again, you're listening for understanding. And so I had to do it two more times, but the the next time I did it I could see a difference in how she was processing, and so we went through it that time and she you know she couldn't, she remembered a little bit and I was like it's okay, you're not used to it, you've trained your brain to listen for what to do. We'll go try it one more time. And then the next time she got it and eventually, in that process, within a matter of probably like 10, 15 minutes, she was doing problems on her own. A matter of probably like 10, 15 minutes she was doing problems on her own. So like sometimes, sometimes it's not that the kids ain't listening.
Speaker 2:It's what are they listening for right? Yeah, no, I totally agree in that that you know we talked about. Do kids listen to understand, or are they listening to be told what to do? And so that made me start to think. When I'm talking to my own son, when I've talked with the clients that I work with for speech therapy, I am doing a lot of telling them what to do.
Speaker 2:It's inherent, it's what we do as parents, as teachers. You're explaining something and then you're telling them something to do, and so then we are kind of programming them to always be listening for what you're telling them to do, versus absorbing what you might be explaining and then crafting that expression of it on their own. So, whatever it is, taking it in and taking in that information and then doing something with it. That's of their own thought process. So it made me, excuse me, think to what you described how you were with your student in the special education world. That's known as chunking information. You're giving small chunks of information and then you might be asking that question now tell me back what it is that I said or what it is I told you to do. So we are training them to follow that pattern. So then you know how do we break that pattern?
Speaker 2:And I think it takes some reflection, some self-reflection as the adults in this situation, as either a teacher or a parent. It takes some self-reflection for us to think back to how we are giving information and the way and the expectation we have of our kids or our students on what they do with that information as well, because we don't want a bunch of kids to sit back waiting to be told what to do. We want innovative thinkers, we want problem solvers, we want these kids to go out and be able to you know, just explore experience. And that comes through you taking initiative to think for yourself, to do things for yourself, to try things out, to take in information and then, like I said before, expressing it in their own way. But if we don't self-reflect first on how we, as the adults, are constantly giving that information and telling kids what to do, I think if we don't start there, then we won't be able to undo what has been done. And you undid it in a matter of minutes in your session with this student.
Speaker 1:Well, because, listen again, 18 and a half years, this is what I've been fighting Like. I probably could say that this is in the top three of the most irritating parts of trying to teach kids something. If I have an irritation somewhere in my life then I want to fix it as fast as possible. So I'm going to start troubleshooting and figuring out ways. Well, it wasn't until like recent years where I've been doing a lot of coaching training.
Speaker 1:So you know, I've teamed my coach on the side and I've gone through courses and programs to hone that skill and, of course, when you start working on personal development, you're right, one thing is reflection, but it's also reflection on what, and in this case it's reflection on communication. So my courses have broke down like how we communicate and when you say something to somebody, they are going through a whole mental process within themselves for how they filter that through their experiences, their background, their identity, even what they think of them, and just how the brain, like physiologically works. If y'all don't know, I'm a little sciencey, okay, I'm a little geek, I geek out with this stuff. So, like in that reflection, that's what I had to reflect on how is this person perceiving what's coming out of my mouth and the way that it's coming out of my mouth? How are they interpreting that, processing it and then deciding what to do with the information they made up?
Speaker 2:Right. If we don't self-reflect, though, and really think on how we are fostering this generation of kids who need to be told what to do. If we don't do that part, you will always think that the child is the issue. Whether it's the student or your own personal child. You always think they're the issue. They don't listen, they're not understanding, they're not paying attention, they're getting distracted, and you will look for them to solve the problem that really is being started, initiated with you, and so then you end up in this spiral where everybody's frustrated.
Speaker 2:Right, you got the kids frustrated, and then you're frustrated, and I think sometimes we can go from one extreme to the other, even in the self-reflection. Let's say you think about it and you say, yes, I am doing. I'm doing that with my student, I'm doing that with my kid. I'm always telling them what to do. Instead of giving them information and seeing how they processed it, how they've understood it, we go from that extreme to now not telling them anything to do and yeah hands off and then we have another disaster on our hands.
Speaker 2:so I think if you self-reflected, then you gotta slowly take those training wheels off, just like you did with okay, I'm giving a lot of information, let me give small bits of information using more simplified language and then asking the student to repeat it back to me and then grow from there. And I think that is a better approach than I know. I've done that myself in the past like okay, you know what, they're not listening anyway, so I'm just going to. I'm not going to say anything, I'm just going to see what happens. But then we haven't really given them the tools to figure out how to think on their own for the purposes of learning or completing a task.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense Absolutely. While you're saying that, I'm going through my head thinking about countless conversations I've had with teachers, and I've even done it myself early on. It's like that moment of frustration when you've said, like you've explained all the stuff and said what they need, and they've even, like you know, they've just. The kids have learned how to give responses that look like I'm understanding. You know they've learned how to listen for cues and give back. You know key words and stuff, and then you get to the end of it and you say, okay, here's the work to do, and then the teacher ends up with a slew of hands or a line at his or her desk, or kids just sitting there not doing anything. You ask them, you tell them get started.
Speaker 1:They're like I don't know what to do, like that is the most frustrating moment, and so, like you said, we have to stop, though, and reflect, and one way that in the whole class, one way that I've managed that before, is to stop everything, similarly to what I did with the student individually. But I think part of the key to what makes me doing it a little more efficient and faster is I explain this concept to the kids, so I take a couple of minutes not long at all and be like this is what just happened, because they, like you say, you have to teach them. They have to learn to be aware of how they're interacting in their world, within their experiences. No, it's not that you just don't understand, but let me teach you a little something extra right here to help you later, because I don't want to have to go through this again.
Speaker 2:Let me correct that I'm not going to go through this again, so if you're going to do this today, I like that approach because you know, just as adults have a lot going on in our day to day lives whether you're in the role as parent or teacher kids have a lot going on in their minds as well. It might not be as high level, of course, as what the adults have to think about, but it still is a lot for them. So to stop everything like you've done in your classes and say, hold on, let me get everybody's attention and let's talk about what just happened, and then talking about what occurred and how it needs to be different is huge, because a lot of kids just aren't aware. You know, attention spans are synonymous, in part, to age level, and so a five-year-old, we are expecting that attention to last about five minutes, to last about five minutes. So I think it's important to understand that and make sure that you have the focus and attention when you are calling them to think about what just happened. This is what happened and this is what I don't want to happen, and we do that a lot as parents at home.
Speaker 2:Right, like you know, just before we came on tonight, my son spilled some juice downstairs and I was just getting ready to be like you need to get this, this, this, make sure you wipe this, this, giving him all the steps. He has made a mess before and he has heard from me how he either cleaned up very well, or cleaned up halfway, or didn't clean up well at all One of those three things and so he spilled it. He saw what he did and I said you know, make sure you get that up. And then that was it, because before we got to the point where I just took hands off, we have done the preceding steps where I was telling him everything to do. Then I stopped to ask him, you know, the next time he spilled something, hey, what do you need to get in order to clean that up? He might go get the kitchen towel and I'm like no, no, no, just get paper towels, it's too much liquid. I'm explaining to him why we would use one material over another. And so then, over time, we've gotten to this point now where I can say you know what to do and I truly hope that there's no sticky mess downstairs when I finish. But that's how we got to that point.
Speaker 2:I think the same sequence of steps can occur in any home or classroom as well, but it does take more effort on the adult's part, because it is much easier just to tell kids what to do. Do this, do this, do this. What do I need to do? Do this, do this? You can list out the steps on the board. It's much more time consuming to go through the steps of chunking information, showing them, reflecting with them, giving them the space to think about their responses, giving them space to come up with the actions that they are going to do. That takes up a lot of time and I know on here we've talked many, many episodes about the classroom time, like it's not much. Kids are at school for a long time, but there's a lot crammed into every minute. So I like the way that you've incorporated it into your classroom in the past, where you take in the moment to discuss what happened and how it needs to change for the next time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, like even with you and your son, what I heard was it takes that upfront time, because all learning takes time. Right, you have to be able to process and you have to be able to take multiple attempts to learn from whatever mistakes you're going to make. However, the tables turn eventually and the time you took the very first time to explain it, the next time it doesn't take as much time, and then the time after that it doesn't take that much time until eventually it's no time. Because I know one time my youngest he's seven he's built something and I didn't even know before. I saw him going to clean it up, like he didn't even tell me and I mean that's, that's where we want our kids to get to. I mean he don't do that all the time and he just you know he's getting there, but just the fact that on that particular time you know we've gone through this enough for him to be like either I know what to do or I know what my, what my mama gonna say Either way, like we have learned to help the situation.
Speaker 1:That's funny, because my students will like, when they take their tests and stuff, especially the ones that I've tutored, like one-on-one. Afterwards they'll. You know I'll ask them some reflection questions. You know how? How'd you do on the test? How did you think through this? And there's been a lot of times when they said cause I heard your voice in my head, so it's not that, it's not that they don't care. Yeah, it's not that they are just not listening. That is not the majority of these kids. They just need someone who's going to have a little bit of patience and take some time with them, because we're supposed to be training them up and if you ever been on a job, training takes time, you know.
Speaker 2:A minimum of two weeks for the simplest jobs Right, and I know we're like closer to the end of the school year now, so I think this is really important for teachers to think about for the start of the next school year, like starting out the school year this way will set the kids up to know okay in this class, because it might be different in other classes it just might be, but in your class this is what the expectation is. We are not going to have me stand at the front of the class and tell you what to do every step of the way every single day. You, what to do every step of the way every single day. I'll show you, I'll explain, I'll ask you to demonstrate your understanding of what I explain and then I'm going to hand it over to you to be able to know what to do. And to some extent teachers do that, especially in the lower grades kindergarten learning, that morning routine, when you come in, where you put your book bag, where do you make your lunch choice, all of these things that they need to do, and at the beginning you have to tell them hey, this is the routine, remember everybody. You're giving them the instructions and then the expectation is that within a couple of weeks, you're not needing to say that all the expectation is that within a couple of weeks. You're not needing to say that all the time.
Speaker 2:And so I think that same concept can just be explored in the academic areas as well, because we do want them to really think for themselves, because when they do that and they make mistakes, then that's how they learn.
Speaker 2:The way that my son learned hey, using this kitchen towel to clean up this huge puddle of whatever I spilled on the floor is not the best way. Either he learned that on his own or I explained to him why that's not the best way to get all of this liquid up. Then the next time he's going to think about that. And so the same thing in the classroom when it comes to any academic piece. You know you're going to give them feedback on what they did that had them arrive at the incorrect answer, and then you will expect them to take what you've explained and implement that the next time. So then they can start to self-correct. They are analyzing their own thinking, they're analyzing their own work and then making any adjustments that need to be made, and I think that's how you make some self-sufficient, self-reliant students that claim their own thinking, and they go beyond just being told what to do. They're taking on what you have explained and then using that knowledge to solve things for themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. That student that I started the story with at the beginning of this episode was she was able to go on and do problems by herself because she gained confidence. It's scary for kids to take risks, especially to take a risk for something that could reflect their intelligence. I was just reading a post not too long ago and the teacher was asking the group, like we. The principal told them not to do like a thumbs up, thumbs down understanding check in class. And you know we, as teachers, we are responsible for doing like all kind of assessment of where the kids are during the lesson. Well, that's one of them. I use it like faithfully Right, it's quick, it's easy, you get a general sense of what's happening. Principal told him not to use it, and so the teacher was asking for other suggestions. And, of course, somebody asked why were you not able to use it? Because a parent complained that their child felt bad when they had to show that they didn't get it right or they didn't understand with their thumbs down.
Speaker 1:We create children in situations like these, where they're taught that they can't. They have to be sheltered, their emotions have to be sheltered, that every environment or every experience has to cater to their feelings and if they feel negatively impacted in any way or any negative feeling, then the environment has to change and not something within the kid. And it really irritated me because I know strong kids are built, need to be resilient. Kids are built, need to be resilient. And you cannot cultivate resiliency in a child if every time they experience a bump or a bruise they are coddled and then told that it's someone else's fault and you have to blame someone outside of you. And you have to blame someone outside of you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree, and I think that that goes back to kids owning their own learning and understanding that it's OK for something to be challenging, it's OK for you to get answers wrong, it's okay for your essay to come back with all these marks and you know corrections in it, because that is how you learn. And I think that you know we slide into even a bigger topic of, like you said, altering the setting to make kids feel successful versus letting them fail, and learning some resiliency, and that all ties back into how they approach their learning. Kids want to be told what to do, because then they know that I'm going to do the right thing.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Versus. Let me listen to understand and then try something on my own. The way it works for me. Exactly so I think those things go hand in hand. And so if you are the teacher or the parent that is altering the setting to help the child feel successful, if you say to your class with the thumbs up, thumbs down example that you gave, okay, we're not going to do that anymore, and you know in the back of your mind it's because somebody feels bad that they have to put a thumbs down, then how about we celebrate the kids who put their thumbs down to say thank you so much for your honesty, because this is hard. It might be easy to some, it might be hard to others.
Speaker 2:No-transcript. Had the challenges. Let's normalize being in challenging situations and admitting something is hard not to be the whining kid, the complaining kid, the kid that doesn't want to try. We're not celebrating that, but we are celebrating the fact that they're first, recognizing that something is hard and, second, being open to sharing that with the adult. And then you can guide them on where they need to focus their attention, their listening to understand so that they can improve the skill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that is what once you get them. First of all, it lets them know you care, because that's another trigger for students. They're like you know, this teacher is out to get me. This teacher doesn't really care about me. Some students even think we want you to fail. I don't know. Anyway, that's another topic. But it gets them to realize that when a teacher cares about me and the teacher says this is good and the teacher thinks that I can get through this, and letting kids know, kids knowing that this is not the end, kids knowing that there's possibility on the other side of my struggle and that my teacher is going to help me get there Like sometimes that's all they need to put in that little bit of extra effort, you know, to get through the struggle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I feel like I hear somebody saying right now when I was a kid, nobody told me they cared. I just got the work done, I just did it. And that might be true, but we are living in different times. The world is not the same. School might look the same where the teacher's standing at the front of the class and the kids are sitting in desks, but the kids are not the same. School might look the same where the teacher's standing at the front of the class and the kids are sitting in desks, but the kids are not the same.
Speaker 2:So if you've been in teaching for 20 plus years, you have witnessed the shift in how these kids show up in the classroom and you can choose to bang your head up against that wall to try to, you know, make them be the type of kid that existed 20 plus years ago, or you can adjust yourself to do just what you said.
Speaker 2:Let them know that you care, let them know that you see their struggle, let them know that it's okay to struggle and see how they respond to that, because you humanize yourself as a teacher instead of just this vessel of information and demands. If you humanize yourself, they don't even know all your personal business. But if you just humanize yourself, that goes a long way to helping kids start to trust you, trust themselves, and then take that ownership of their learning and their thinking as well. So I think we benefit from that and again, starting off next school year with that in mind would be really helpful. I think even having a professional development on that type of topic would be helpful for teachers, because it can be hard to transition the way you've done things for many, many years. I mean you get into a habit and it's easy to start something new and then go back to your default because you kind of say, oh, this isn't working. You know, let me go back to what I was doing before then asking yourself was that working Cause? Maybe it wasn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's a great idea Dr Tiffany. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So let let us know how this episode resonated with you through the chat, comments and the show notes. Our email address is there. Choose an email, make a comment on social media and let us know if this is something that you've already implemented into your classroom this school year or if it's something that you'll consider starting up for the upcoming school year. So thanks for joining us tonight. That's our episode, so we'll see you next Tuesday.
Speaker 1:See, ya, see ya.