Conversation with Loren Eiferman

Please enjoy my conversation with Loren Eiferman. 

Over many decades Loren has created a unique technique of working with naturally found wood. Her organic wood sculptures take the detritus from nature and turn it into art. 

Loren wants the viewer to have a sense of wonder and awe when looking at her work.  We have all at one point or another picked up a stick from the ground—touched the wood, peeled the bark off with our fingernails.  Loren’s work taps into that same primal desire of touching nature and being close to it.

https://www.loreneifermanart.com/ 

https://www.instagram.com/loreneiferman 

https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/ 

https://www.hanshofmann.org/ 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beinecke_Rare_Book_%26_Manuscript_Library

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Blossfeldt 

https://www.hammondmuseum.org/ 

This podcast was created by Natalya Khorover. It was produced and recorded by Natalya, as well as researched and edited by her. SALVAGE is a product of ECOLOOP.ART.

If you enjoy this show, please rate and review us wherever you’re listening—and be sure to come back for another conversation with a repurposed media artist.

Music theme by RC Guida

Visit Natalya’s website at www.artbynatalya.com

Visit Natalya’s community at www.repurposercollective.com

Visit Natalya’s workshops at https://www.ecoloop.art/

Transcript

Welcome to Salvage, a podcast for conversations with artists about the repurposed materials they use in their art practice.

Please enjoy my conversation with Loren Eiferman. Over many decades, Loren has created a unique technique of working with naturally found wood. Her organic wood sculptures take the detritus from nature and turn it into art. Loren wants the viewer to have a sense of wonder and awe when looking at her work. We have all, at one point or another, picked up a stick from the ground.

Touch the wood. Peel the bark off with our fingernails. Loren's work taps into that same primal desire of touching nature and being close to it.

Well, thank you so much, Loren, for agreeing to talk to me. I'm delighted. Your work is like nothing I have ever seen before.

It's recycling. That is not what most people think about as recycling. Right? Or repurposing. It's absolutely, very, very different. So, I have all sorts of questions, but I'm wondering if it's okay if I start with asking whether you were an artist as a kid.

Okay. That's a really great question, because it all comes back to the first steps and the first pathway is that started. And I also want to say thank you for asking me. I'm really touched. You've noticed my work in our embracing and the way you have. So thank you. You know, I was a loner as a kid a lot like I played by myself.

My mother used to tell me I'd create these whole worlds at as a doll house. At as toilet paper and Scotch tape, like, building furniture out of nothing and playing with little trolls. Remember those troll dolls? So I'd. I'd make beds for them and tables and chairs. And so I always was intrigued with making things. And I have a really early memory of we had a build a solar system in third grade.

Oh, wow. And everybody who came in had these neat little shoe boxes that mommy and daddy help them. And my mom let me just be and create. And I made this enormous box that I couldn't even carry, that my brother had to carry to help me carry to school. It was so big and I and it was different than everyone else's.

And the teacher was sort of not supportive. Was rude and said, oh, what's this? You know, like and all the kids made fun of me, but I thought it was cool, you know? So, so how do you trust your own instinct, your own path as a kid growing up as an adult, as you say, nobody works like I do.

And I just have to trust that initial instinct. Like, I think it's cool. I get great pleasure out of making this. Let me continue. So but, you know, that's sort of a downer memory, but it's inform. It's. Yeah. No, it's, I guess I could see how it's a downer, a memory, but I think what I'm taking away from it most is that you made something yourself that you were so proud of.

Yeah. And you did it all by yourself. I tried to do that with my daughters. I don't remember, I don't have a memory like that of school projects for myself. But I do have memory. You know, I when my kids were little, I was, I was the assistant if they needed an assistant but I never, I wanted to make sure I never influenced whatever they were making for their project because that's exactly what I didn't want to do, is I didn't want to have them have a project that clearly a parent helped them make.

Right. But, well, I was a bad mommy because my kids ask me, mommy, you're an artist. You've got to help me. My, I, I have two girls. Grown women, yes, I have, I have two of those as well. Got up there. It's a beautiful thing. It is. It really is. So did you, study some kind of art in high school or college?

Like in the high school? I, I was at this juncture point, and I was like, I think I want to start studying art. So I grew up in Brooklyn, and at the time, the Brooklyn Museum had the most dynamite art school. Oh, wow. So I started taking these clay hand building sculpture classes there. I fell in love.

I, you know, my parents, I would take the subway there, and my parents usually came and picked me up, and so I'd have an hour or two hours after to just wander the museum and look at the collection like I knew it backwards and forwards. And it was an incredible opportunity. And then I started taking classes at Brooklyn College during high school, and then I studied during the summer, one summer at Cornell.

Oh, they had a whole art program for high school kids. So I studied there. I fell in love with my sculpture teacher. It was this woman that was dynamite and cool. Such a wonderful, inspiring teacher. And from there, I just sort of went off and said, I like this art stuff. So I'm going to continue.

So I, went to college. I ended up going to three different schools because I got very bored very quickly. Oh, and I spent one first year in Oneonta, New York, at the SUNY school. And then I'm like, there have not enough for it. So I spent a year in France. Oh, wow. Drawing from the model, every day on the same size piece of paper in charcoal.

And it was rigorous and it was one of the best experiences because it taught me to show up in a studio. It's that's one of the hardest things that I think people have is to how to show up for yourself every day. Oh, absolutely. And it was started and run by this Danish artist who used to be Hans Hofmann's assistant.

So he ran it sort of like the Hofmann School. Hans Hofmann had a school on 8th Street way back when, and, and it was an incredible experience and, and but it also taught you to see. Yeah. It taught me to see. It taught every day in charcoal drawing from the model. It's like, no, no color. No. It was just line form, shading it.

And seeing every day. So and we'd work in the studio sometimes till late at night and it was a group of about 20 kids. And we stayed there for a year, and it was a great education. That sounds amazing. And then I ended up going finish graduating from Purchase New York. After school there with a degree in sculpture.

I did a lot of clay sculpture there and collage, but a BFA, so very cool. And how did you discover sticks? Like, how did that come? You were doing collage, you were doing clay, and then like, how did how did the sticks happen? Very circuitous. So after I graduated Purchas, I moved into this teeny tiny apartment on a mulberry Street.

There were three tiny rooms, and I made one work in my studio, and I'm like, I can't make sculpture. I don't have rooms. So I started painting and I was had three painting walls. And I had was making like four, three foot by five foot paintings on paper because you can store them easily. Yeah. You know, it's takes up a lot less room.

Real estate is always an issue in the studio. So one very hot august day I had three wet paintings not drawing on the wall, you know, New York City in the summer, the humidity. Yeah. Nothing dries. So I'm like, I gotta do something because I get itchy if I don't make something. That's just the way I'm wired.

I, ended up saying, what do I do? What do I do? And I, on my drafting table, I had these pieces of balsa wood and straightedge razor blades that I was using for framing purposes. And so I started whittling with straightedge razor blade in balsa wood. And I was so in the zone. And literally eight hours passed.

I didn't eat, you know, this was days before cell phones and distractions. City. Yeah. And I was totally focused. No phone calls, no food, just whittling away. And you whittle. I made this totem pole. You know, what else are you going to whittle on? I'm piece of balsa wood, like that big, And I made a totem pole, and afterwards I went, oh, my God, I'm a sculptor, not a painter.

That's right. And so I started whittling some more, and then I realized balsa wood was the worst material. Am I hands started getting horribly scratched, cut from the straight edge razor blades. So I got a whittling set. And then I started going to Central Park and collecting sticks that had fallen from the ground. And I started carving these sticks.

And so my early work was very totemic. I started connecting these sticks with hooks and eyes. And so every thing was sort of dangling and moving. And then I realized I was more interested in the shape of the stick, then all the carving that I was doing to the sticks. So then I started paying more attention to the shape, and then realizing I didn't want my work to be so kinetic.

I wanted them to be more about form and solid. So I figured out this method that I used of, using dowels and wood glue and joining small pieces of wood together to get the shapes I want. And, so that's the way. And so each sculpture now usually has about 100 or more small piece of wood that have been jointed together.

So I start out every morning taking a walk and collecting sticks. In my neighborhood, I'm known as the stick lady after a windstorm. Sometimes I find some gorgeous sticks that neighbors have found left for me at the bottom of the driveway. You know, it's like sticks are everywhere they appear and people love sticks. I picked up a stick on my morning walk and then you're like, oh, maybe I can make something out of this.

You know, it's like that itch, but but I just put it aside. I like it, it's pretty. It's going to stay that way.

But the detritus of nature is all around us, and it's a material that's ubiquitous and available. Beautiful. So I use that, and it's my husband keeps asking me, are you born yet with working with sticks? And I'm like, no, I'm not. What do you get bored? I'll stop. But I'm not bored yet. That's amazing. And you make such really gorgeous shapes out of them.

And you think I mean so you. So you cut up the sticks that you find into smaller portions. And do you ever use, like, a whole stick that you find? And if I'm wanting a stem or a long piece, like I look for different sticks and different shapes sometimes if I'm working on a piece and I'm obsessed with curves, I look for curves, but I usually collect sticks and leave them in my studio for a period of time to dry.

I need to make sure there are no bugs in them, and they won't crack or check anymore. Or anything like that. So how big is your stick pile in the studio? I don't know if you can see it, but well, okay, it looks really big. So for those of us who are not watching, it's like it's I lost two feet high, I call it it's like 12ft long and three feet high for what I it's, I call it my sea of sticks.

Well, it's beautiful just on its own. It's cool on its own. I sometimes think, oh, maybe I should do some sort of installation. Yes. Like, but, but it's,

I dig them, yeah. You. So when you walk, I said I got, I got to ask the collection part. So I walk and I pick up trash on my dog walks in the woods, and I have a little canvas bag with me that I put it in. What do you carry when you're collecting sticks? Gloves? That's it. Gloves to keep my hands warm and, you know, sometimes there's.

I try not to get a stick that has fungus on it or anything because I once had a really bad rash from it. So I usually try to have gloves with me. Also, in this weather, you better have gloves, right? Yes. We're talking in January. Yes, but in the summer you still have gloves on. No I then I usually try to peel off a section of bark when I gather it.

So I'm holding the, smooth wood. Okay. So I do that. Yeah. And I do drawings before I make a sculpture. Oh. Okay. So. So the drawing acts like a road map of where I want the sculpture to go. A once in a while, I just sort of freewheel it and just sort of, you know, have the vision in my head and just make it.

But frequently I, I had sketch pads here full of. Wonderful. So you have a very real sketchbook practice. Yeah, definitely. And I also do these morning drawings that I call them. I don't know if you've seen them. Yes, I wanted to. That's on my list of things to ask. Yeah, but your morning drawings. So I come in to the studio and it's sort of like a warm up to, I miss color, I love color, and I used to paint, you know, I, I miss it.

So I been making these small drawings, I see, I read the newspaper and I tear out images from the times, and then, use that as a base for my drawings. Oh, so it's an actual physical newspaper that you wrote? Yeah. And draw on. Yeah. Oh, cool. So it's, and then I collage parts and cut up parts and sometimes put them right side up or upside down or sideways or, you know, I add to it and it's and then I can go, look, I made this and it only takes one, 2 or 3 days, not months to make.

Yeah. I it fills up my art endorphins. Oh I love that art endorphins. There's yeah there's a title right there in there. Yeah. Where you know, if you're if you're into creating you need those in art. Endorphins. Absolutely. Yeah I love that. So you miss color, but you do use some color on your sculptures. Yes I do.

Where does the color come from? I mean, it's mostly muted, like I'm seeing I've seen green, although I think I feel like I've seen pink on one of your sculptures in the park. Yeah. Pink, orange, green, blue. You know, purple. One piece has purple on it. I frequently to color them. It's a pen. Sometimes it's with acrylic paint.

Sometimes I rub pastel on it and then put, linseed oil on top of it so that the. And turpentine. So the, pastels seeps in the colors into the wood. So it's sort of translucent, not opaque like that. So it's every piece is different. And a lot of my color sometimes, not always, comes from I've been working with this manuscript called the Voynich manuscript.

Okay. You come everything that I want it to. I have notes of to ask. You're good, you're good. All right. But before we get to that manuscript, you're the way you're. You said you were connecting the sticks with dowels. Yeah, but they're so smooth. So you use some kind of putty to, like. Yeah, I know, high tech putty, with, wood glue and sawdust, like, literally nothing in my studio goes to waste.

I save the sawdust. All the cut offs get burned to my wood burning stove. You know, it's like it's a constant recycling. So zero waste. I love that zero waste from junk, not junk from nature is castoffs. Yes. Yeah. What I do is from my drawing, I see the shape or form that I want the line to be.

I actually call my sculptures drawing, but in wood. So I look at the line that I want and then I look in my stick pile for the shape that I'm looking for. And then I cut small pieces of wood together to correspond to that shape. And then I put in a dowel and, and and connect small pieces of wood using dowels.

And then I make this party at a sawdust and wood glue, fill in all the joints, wait for it to dry sanded, reapply the party, wait for it to dry, and I usually need to reapply the putty 3 or 4 times. Wow. So everything is seamless. And that's also where the drawings come in. And my small sculptures come in because I can do them in between.

I frequently work on two sculptures at once because there's frequently a drawing and a wet period that I need to balance out everything, right? Yeah, I, I don't have a lot of drying periods in my work, but I tend to work on more than one piece at a time as well, mainly to sort of take a break every now and then, step back, work on something else, and then take a look at the piece that I'm working on with fresh eyes.

Yeah. You also have a lot of curing you need for your resin. Since. Yeah, for the resin pieces, for the stitch pieces, usually there's no curing or anything like that, but it's just taking a break. Just work hard. I'm envious. I'm envious. You could just keep going. Maybe I will start doing something new, I don't know, have you ever used thread to wrap around your sticks or something like that?

I have, I've used thread. I have a couple of pieces that I've wrapped, and, dangled and I've used that piece up there, which I don't think you can see. I used video tape, video tape, two sticks to wrap it, like dangle and just be like this funny thing. And I have another piece that I wrapped.

CDs over with silk twine. Oh, cool. I do, you know, I use threads sometimes, but not that much. Interesting. Sometimes every piece is different. Every piece calls for either a unique, different kind of color or material or, a, I frequently experiment, so I love experimenting. Yeah. So whether I burn, you know, I use a blowtorch to burn the wood to get a chart color or, you know, just wax or linseed oil, it's each piece is different.

It's fun. I recently got myself a wood burning tool. Oh, oh, oh, that sounds fun. It is. So I. I kind of intended it because I wanted to, melt, lightly melt the edge of a plastic jar. Like I'm very, cautious about melting plastic because it really has so many chemicals. But I thought I could use the melting tool to, like, just soften the edge.

And I haven't played with that as much. But then I was at a residency, back in, back in the beginning of September, of 24. And there was I did a lot of walking, and I picked up a walking stick. It was sort of like a mix between a walking stick and a spider web stick, because I would either, like, use it or I didn't.

I don't really need it for balance, but. But the spider webs, there were so many spider webs, I would literally swirl it in front of me to make sure I wasn't walking into spider webs, because I do not like walking into spider webs. But then nobody does. No. But then I was. I kept using the same stick out, just like the way it felt in my hand.

So I decided to and I had my wood burning tool. So I named the stick and I would burned the the title of the stick onto the into it. So I was like, I'm actually using the wood burning tool for what it was meant to do. Oh, you're inspiring me. I think maybe, because that would be cool to draw on the stick on the sculptures and have, like, not have it be all uniform in color, but have, like, you just gave me a great idea.

Oh, good. I'm happy. I have a friend who used to. She still does. She I mean, she doesn't. She does. Wood burning on, like, wooden shape, like Easter eggs or little boxes and stuff like that. She doesn't make them herself. She buys them, but she literally draws with the wood burning tool on these shapes. And they're always so pretty.

There's just something really lovely about it's like a two color thing, but I guess the deeper too, you can you can do some shading. Yeah. Well, yeah. Cool. You've inspired me. Oh, good. Thank you. You're welcome. So tell me about these manuscripts. I have never heard of them before. It's this manuscript that was written in the late 1400s.

They believe it's currently at Yale Beinecke library. And it was discovered by this man, Wilfred Voynich. And, he discovered it. But the manuscript was written, they believe, in the late 1400s, written in an unknown language by an unknown author, and filled. It's divided into 5 or 6 sections, and the first section is plants that aren't real.

They're, it's total fantasy, filled with plants that have these strange root systems and leaves and, and the back section has naked women in these green baths with, like, these fallopian tube things coming out. And it's like, out there. Where was this? Discovered it. This man, Wilfred Voynich. They think he discovered it in Czechoslovakia, possibly, or Italy.

They're not sure where he discovered it. Alan Turing, who cracked the Enigma code during World War two, tried to decipher it. He couldn't do it. I'm sure they've put it into AI, and they haven't had any luck. Nobody has been able to decipher this manuscript. That's amazing. And I discovered it about ten years ago, maybe more. And when I found the manuscript online, like the world's most mystery is manuscripts.

And of course, I'm a sucker for that sort of thing. And so I clicked it on. And swiping through all those that slideshow, remember those like, I went, oh my God, I felt like I wrote this in another life. Like, like strange. It was this congealed, deep, deep connection to this manuscript. And I went and I used to, when I was a painter, I used to paint my dreams.

And I'm like, well, if this was me in another life, why can I recreate these plants in sculptures? And it was like some strange brain thing. So I've been inspired to recreate a lot of these forms that are found in the manuscript into sculptures. These are unknown. They've been mysterious for centuries. And to, you know, there is a lot of wonder surrounding us on this planet.

Oh, yeah. Constantly. And if we open our eyes to it, it's around us. So I've been recreating these illustrations into 3D wood sculptures. You know it. It's I don't know, it's strange. So wild it's out there, but, I, I, I, I love them. Yeah. What a find that is so that you have such a visceral reaction to it.

Just you telling me about it gave me chills. Wow. And then a lot of wow. And then my work also, you know, I look at a lot of nature, like doing the Voynich manuscript, unleash this whole field of botanicals for me. So I been working with a lot of botanical like imagery and so there's this photographer from the turn of the century, Carl Blossfeldt, he was a German photographer who photographed nature in extreme closeup.

And so I've been inspired by a lot of his photographs as well. And then just looking how a leaf unfurls or, flower, you know, the pistol in the stamen and, you know, the roots and it's, it's all there. I love to garden. So it's, It's inspiring. Yeah. Do you take photographs of your inspiration? Yeah, yeah, I do, so.

Oh, well, we have our phones in our pockets all the time. Yeah. We. I'm always taking photographs of trees of the sky, a leaf on the ground. You know, it's like. I'm like, wow, look at the way that leaf dropped on the ground. That's the coolest form. And then I made a sculpture from that, you know?

And so it's, Oh, great. Yeah. Inspiration is all around us. Oh, my God, it is. It really is. It's everywhere. It's it's just. Yeah. You have to open your eyes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, that's one of the gifts most artists have is the ability to see, and, you know, I like to think that as an artist, I can observe and see.

Well. But I can't tell you how many times I walk by something like the walk I take in the woods every day, almost every day. And it's usually more or less the same path. And I've walked it now. I can't I don't even know how many times, but every now and then I notice something and I'm like, how have I never seen this particular rock formation before?

Right, right. What? It's how is that possible? I've walked here so many times. Yeah, yeah. It's weird. Yeah. It's weird. It's like, Seeing new things. Yeah. So anyway, just I realized, about the voyage. So a lot of the colors I use my botanicals are come from the manuscript. So that's why a lot of them seem muted.

Because they're from the 1400s. Oh, yes. So that's where. And there's also an earthier ness about it. Definitely. Definitely. I don't see any, fluorescent yellows in there, but there is this weird green. It's like what, naked women in green bath. All right, I'm going to have to look this up now. And yes, I will put the link in show notes, but, like, wait, what?

That's so cool. Let's see, what did I. Oh, yes. Your MTA commission like, how did that come about? That is so cool. I never take that line. It's it's an in Pelham. It's in Pelham. Yeah. I never take that line even or I wish I did, because I haven't seen it in about a decade. But I that come about, it was sort of remarkable.

I got a call out of the blue saying, could you please apply to this? Some curator have put my name forward. Oh, wow. And so and I came in and there were five different artists competing, to get it. And we had a dual board, and I suck at Photoshop, and I'm not technically talented at all. So I ended up doing making this board with these drawings.

You didn't make a wood sculpture to represent. I actually did, you know, it's. No, I actually did. But I was like, what am I going to do? So I spent one day walking around Pelham and looking at the kinds of houses there are. Pelham was settled at the turn of the century when the right crafters and William Morris and all those designers were really active.

So I thought, oh, if I make these panels, Pelham Station, that when the sunlight hits them, they're almost like carpet panels on the platform. It's. I figured out a way to work in metal that, of course, no one has ever worked on the floor. And then I ended up giving the designs to the fabricator, and he's like, how do you expect me to do this?

And I'm like, take a piece and form it. And then another piece and he's like, okay. And so he worked in a way he had never worked before. I when you challenged him. Yeah. And so I ended up making three panels that were sandwiched together, three separate designs. And so when they're joined together, they create this image. But I really wanted do you I don't like I've looked at a lot of oriental carpets.

I did a whole series based off of Persian carpets from the 1300s and I love the way the lines form and different shapes appear at different times. And depending if you're looking at the background or the foreground or what lines intersect. So I wanted these panels to be contemplated and engage you visually in a different sort of way.

While you're looking at it, you're like, oh, there's that, oh, there's that, you know, so your eyes keep shifting. And I thought, while you're waiting for the train, that would be a really cool thing. Yeah, yeah. So, so then I ended up finding out that I got the commission. That's exciting. Yeah, it was really exciting.

Like, totally fell out of the sky for me. I haven't done another one like that since. I'd love to. Well, now I see calls for entry for that, so maybe that wasn't too so ten years ago, but now I see, like the D.O.T. or the NYC, NYC D.O.T. puts out calls for entry like I have entered a few of them.

They and they all say like for a specific station, right? Right. And you just send them like your portfolio, right? I I've entered a few over the last couple of years. I have never been actually called to even be in consideration for it forget winning one. But yeah, well, most of those right now, most of those I think are for mosaic or glass, and there's very few metal.

And I have this whole other plan, but it ended up getting to be too expensive. So I had I just do these, you know, I had a pair it down. It's, Oh, I guess it's part of the process. Yeah. You do any public art commissions other than that? Not really, not lately. I've, I've done some, you know, people have asked commission me to make a sculpture or I've done, some book covers.

Oh, cool. Oh. That's cool. A big public art commission I haven't done. I just got asked to show my sculpture at the Hammond Museum outside in there. Teagarden. Oh, I was just going to ask, are your sculptures okay to be outside? Most aren't, but I did one bronze, so, so it will be there in the spring and cherry blossom season, so that's perfect.

So that's sort of public already. Yeah. Yeah. No, I can see how your sculptures could be translated into bronze. Yeah. That would totally makes sense. Yeah, it is, it's so I, I did one of those but they're so expensive. So like one a year I think.

what are you working on now? What? I am sort of,

I feel like I'm at a crossroads, so to speak. I'm kind of changing things up. I'm experimenting with resin. I'm still experimenting with plastic and, stitching things

But I don't want to do any of my older work at the moment, like, I, you know, used to do architecturally inspired, stitched artwork, nature inspired stitched artwork. And that's not calling me at the moment. Plastic bags. Yeah, yeah. They're stunning though. Oh, thank you, thank you. But I think I'm stepping back from that for now.

I'm not saying I'll never go back to it because, you know, never say never. But I'm kind of at a crossroads. I have ideas, I don't have enough time to execute my ideas, but I'm trying. Life is short. Yes, yes, yes.

I have this question that I've been asking.

And I know you're you're repurposing materials, but you're not like many of the other artists that I speak to. You're not repurposing plastic trash or metal trash or whatever.

You're picking up the natural detritus to repurpose. But I'm wondering whether

you think about how does an artist, make an impact in this time, this in our day and age where, you know, the climate crisis is real? Overconsumption kind of seems to be the leading cause of the climate crisis and all sorts of other problems.

How does an artist.

Make a statement? How does an artist contribute to the world during this time that we are in. Interesting question. I think my work is about wonder. A lot of it is about wonder. And if you look at the work and go, how did she build it? How is this construct? Did it makes you think of sticks?

It makes you think of nature. It makes you feel a connection to nature. That you wouldn't have otherwise thought of and felt. So I think for me, obviously, I cared deeply, deeply about our planet and all the grace that she gives us every day. And if there's another connection that could be had and. Spoken to visually to help inspire other people to find their own inner connection.

I think that's important. So that's beautifully said. Yeah. Thanks. So think I think that's it. At least today, if you ask me tomorrow, it may be a totally different answer, but. Well, maybe we'll get back to this question. I guess. Yeah, it's a good question because these times are dire. And I think to me it is imperative to continue to make art because I think artists have a deep purpose here on this planet to make people wake up, to make people feel more connected to and.

I am not an activist. I'm not a political activist. I'm not a politician. I used to be a teacher. I'm not anymore. I'm an artist now. And so if the art can speak to some sort of inner strength and power that we all have to not listen to all the surrounding noise, but to try to recalibrate, refocus on our inner selves.

I think that's important. And it's to be able to give out to the world that. So I think all artists are encumbered upon to have to work these days, I really do. Yeah. I think it's important, you know, whatever you do, whatever language you find, whether it's music or theater or whatever it is, I think it's important to connect to humanity and nature.

Yeah, I agree, I think the arts are essential to our survival. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and it might not be where all the money is or, you know, all that, but I think it's it greases the wheels to make everything work in a way that wouldn't be able to otherwise. Yeah, well that's lovely. Yeah. Well, that's I think I think that's a lovely note to end on.

Thank you so much for chatting with me and Natalya. This was fun. This was fun. And to be continued and I hope I see you around soon. Yes, I hope so too.

Thank you so much for joining me for that fascinating conversation I loved. I love the tone of it. I love talking to Loren. That was really, really wonderful.

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Thank you again and I'll see you in the next episode.

This podcast was created, produced and edited by me, Natalya Khorover. Theme music by RC Guida. To find out more about me, go to art by natalya.com to find out about my community. Go to Repurposer collective.com and to learn with me, check out all my offerings at EcoLoop, Dot Art. Thank you for listening. `