Conversation with Vivien Zepf

In this special episode of Salvage, the tables turn - my dear friend Vivien Zepf interviews me. Instead of me asking the questions, Vivien dives into my story: from my early days in fashion and costume design, to discovering repurposed plastics as my medium, and to how my art practice evolved into both a personal expression and an environmental call to action. We talk about curiosity, experimentation, and how I balance the beauty of art with the urgency of raising awareness about plastic pollution.

We also dig into the Repurposer Collective, the community I’ve built for artists working with discarded materials. I share how we connect, collaborate, and create together - including the inside story of our ambitious new project: a 32-foot collaborative artwork that will be unveiled on October 4. It’s a conversation about transformation, community, and finding meaning in the materials that surround us.

https://www.vivienzepf.com/ 

https://www.surfacedesign.org/

https://tetonraptorcenter.org/

https://www.artanddesignhs.org/

https://www.pratt.edu/

https://www.felixgonzalez-torresfoundation.org/

https://www.patriciamiranda.com/

https://www.beyondplastics.org/

https://www.unisonarts.org/ 

This podcast was created by Natalya Khorover. It was produced and recorded by Natalya, as well as researched and edited by her. SALVAGE is a product of ECOLOOP.ART.

If you enjoy this show, please rate and review us wherever you’re listening—and be sure to come back for another conversation with a repurposed media artist.

Music theme by RC Guida

Visit Natalya’s website at www.artbynatalya.com

Visit Natalya’s community at www.repurposercollective.com

Visit Natalya’s workshops at https://www.ecoloop.art/

Transcript

Welcome to Salvage,

a podcast for conversations with artists

about the repurposed materials

they use in their art practice.

Welcome to another episode of Salvage.

This one is going to be

a little different.

Please enjoy my conversation with Vivien

Zepf.

Vivien is a good friend of mine.

We've been friends for a very long time

at this point.

We discovered each other

through a Journal Quilt book published

by the International Quilts Festival

a long time ago.

I was perusing the book

and saw Vivien's work,

and saw that

she was just a town over from mine.

So I reached out

and next thing I knew, we were good

friends and even shared a birthday.

Vivien has been with me through thick

and thin when we lived two minutes away

from each other, and remains a good friend

and a confidante.

Even now, when she's living practically

on the other side of the country.

Vivien is an artist

whose creativity comes through

as an art quilter, which I secretly hope

she'll return to someday.

And as an amazing wildlife photographer.

Her attention to detail

and composition is astounding.

She worked for ten years

as a museum docent

and became a remarkable art educator.

She is so good at engaging and conversing

with the public about ideas and learning.

She is frequently writing book reviews

for Surface Design Association,

which show off her skill

and love of writing

and as a volunteer trainer

at the Teton Raptor Center.

She has the opportunity

to introduce people to raptors, a position

that combines her love of nature

and education into one.

As I've been thoroughly enjoying

interviewing artists

guests on this here podcast,

I came to realize that most of you

don't really know who I am., much about me

and why am I doing this?

So as I wondered about

how to introduce you to myself better,

and I'm not so great

at talking about myself,

I thought,

why don't I ask Vivien to interview me,

as I know that she'll be the one asking

most insightful questions?

So here we are.

Thank you, Vivien, for being here today.

Oh, Natalya.

I’m honored, I want to I'm getting

choked up hearing that.

That introduction.

Thank you. It's so kind of you to say.

And I, you know, as I was preparing

these questions for you today,

I was thinking back of our practice.

I don't know if you remember this,

where we did, monthly prompts

and we were creating our own things.

And at one point

we were even doing, found objects.

Do you remember that?

You were very good at it.

You were always on time.

I was I was a little, I haven't finished

it quite yet, but this is my idea.

So we've been talking art, and for a long

time, I couple of decades now, I believe.

I think so, and it's just been a pleasure

to get to know you more

and to see your evolution as an artist,

you know, to to share and life experiences

together,

you know, weekly walks with dogs,

all how I miss those.

I do too, I do too, I do too.

We solved a lot of the world's problems.

If only they would listen right now.

Really!

So I'm honored and thrilled to be able to

to do this with you.

And I'm sure all your listeners will

appreciate getting to know you better.

And understanding.

You know how your mind works,

which I think is actually

a pretty fascinating thing.

And, you know,

it's still a mystery to me in some ways.

So, so I,

you know, I figured we would start, with

just how your art practice began.

You know, can you tell

us a little bit about your journey

as a creator?

In all the forms that it has taken.

Well, sure.

Well,

I was always a kid who was drawn to art.

I loved to draw, doodle,

whatever I, you know,

my favorite class in school

was always art class.

And then somewhere along the way,

well, I found myself at the High school

of Art and design.

I just, it's a really great

specialized high school in New York City.

And I was living in Queens,

and I just could not picture myself

going to my local high school.

There was nothing wrong with it.

I just wanted a desperate,

desperately wanted a different experience.

And thankfully,

my parents didn't object to it.

So I applied to the High School of Art

and Design and wound up going there.

And, you know, I was just actually talking

to a friend of mine who teaches there now.

And it was just

such a great place to learn about art.

You know,

like the first freshman year, we got to do

six weeks of every single subject.

So I got to try architecture

for six weeks.

I got to try photography for six weeks.

You know, painting, 

fashion illustrations.

I, I can't even remember

all the subjects that were there,

but I got to try each one for six weeks,

which is,

you know, a good amount of time to

try something and see if you have

a knack for it or liking to it.

I was very fascinated

with the fashion world,

so I majored in fashion illustration,

then, applied to Pratt

and I became a fashion designer.

I got a degree in fashion design.

That's that's my BFA.

So Bachelor of Fine Arts,

but in fashion design

with a painting minor.

Yeah. No

need to qualify.

That's really cool.

Well, it is, it was minor

because, you know, I really enjoyed it,

but that's not that wasn't my main focus.

Yeah.

So I went on to be, a fashion designer.

however specialized,

is still being an artist.

I did think of myself as an artist back

then.

I wound up working in the mass market

fashion industry.

It kind of happened that way.

One of my teachers was working

for a company called Gitano.

If anybody remembers Gitano jeans.

And he frequently hired students

as freelancers when he needed extra help.

And this was a big office.

There was a lot of designers there.

So I was one of those.

And then eventually I wound up with a full

time job there, which was

great because, hey, I was earning money

and I was expressing my creativity and,

you know, a gazillion ways, you know.

That's where I learned collage, actually,

because I was doing,

a lot of collage work,

preparing all these, inspiration boards

for other designers, you know, because

when you're starting off, you're doing

all sorts of small things

for everybody in the company, right?

So that was really

that was really a lot of fun.

But that is also where I learned

eventually

about, well,

the stress of the fashion industry.

Holy smokes. Talk about pressure.

And that was then.

I think it's even worse now.

You know, with getting the line out, the,

the spring line up

two years before and all of that

and in mass market, it was all about,

where can we save a penny here?

And the penny there.

It was really like,

you know, the money in the end was

the objective

is how little can you spend on a garment.

And by the time I left there, it

I had been there for ten years and

I got to travel to factories and overseas

and really saw it from

many perspectives.

And I, I wasn't happy with it.

It was just like, right.

It was just so draining.

You know, when you're designing and trying

to design something that looks really

pretty or, you know, really

appropriate fashion wise,

and then you have to, like,

dumb it down because it's too expensive

the way you want it to look.

Right.

That is that is a hard choice. Yeah.

Because it's no longer

the creative process.

It's a financial process

with a creative twist.

Yeah, that that's tough.

Yeah. That's hard.

So? So what? So when did you.

And ten years.

You said you were there.

What happened next?

Well, I decided I had enough,

and by that point, I've worked at several

different companies, and I was just.

I was freelancing.

That was a big thing, you know,

you just do sort of jobs on assignment

here and there, 

depending how many hours or whatever.

And you were working

for different companies.

So I had some free time in my freelancing,

and I did some digging,

and I realized that

I really was interested

in costume design and

in film and television specifically.

And that's, you know, that was a booming

thing at that time in New York City.

It was a very, you know, film and TV

industry was thriving.

And I was very curious about it. And I,

I had taken some costume design classes,

you know, back in school.

So I was really interested.

So I looked into it and, I decided that

that's what I was going to try to do.

So I did.

Wow, that's so cool.

I mean, it's, you know, I give you credit,

really being able to evaluate

and do some honest self-reflection

and then being able to pursue

something that that's a quite a talent.

I mean, a lot of people can't

actually figure out what they want to do.

So I might I go back to that because

it seems like you're really good at that.

I look at things and and evaluating

and saying, well, you know what?

I'm really interested in this.

And pursuing it.

And I, you know, I, I think that that's

a really interesting thing

to hear that that was already part

of your artistic practice

so early in your career

as an artist, though.

I know you said you were artist

since you were a little kid, but

I'm talking professionally

more as opposed to personally.

So that's also

you were able to make that happen.

So how did that manifest itself?

Well, you know,

this is one of those things I have to say.

You know, this is I'm still young.

I don't have children.

I can do things, you know?

And, you know,

my parents were very supportive.

I lived with them.

That was a huge savings.

So I was able to, do things that

didn't earn me any money

for living at first.

Because I literally went

to the NYU film department

and put up fliers

giving up my services

as a costume designer for the,

I guess for their master's thesis

for the film students master thesis.

And it's so cool.

And they know there's a much hired they,

they they hired me.

They didn't pay me, but they hired me.

So I did.

I want to say I did like three,

maybe four student films.

I don't remember now.

And I wasn't the

only, person working for

free on these student films.

There were other,

you know, people, people doing lighting

and people doing makeup and people,

you know, handling the camera.

So I met other film people

doing those freebie little things

and that's how I got a foothold

in the film industry, because,

you know, it's all about who, you know,

you meet someone and they're like,

oh, you were good to work with.

I'm going to go work on this thing.

Do you want to come along?

So that's kind of how it started.

Wow. Yeah.

And then. Yeah.

And then eventually I, decided that

I was going to apply to be in the union,

because those were all there is a

a big film industry that's based

all in the unions.

And then there's the,

now, I can't think of the word for it,

but there's a specific word for it.

But there's a, you know, sort of the,

the starter set film industry.

I can't remember the word for it where

you just learning and then you want to

if you want to work in

the real, the big time films,

you have to be in the union.

So I took the union exam

for costume designers

and for wardrobe supervisors

because I realized that,

it would be a lot more difficult

for me to get a job as a costume designer

or an even as an assistant costume

designer.

It would was a little easier

to get the supervisor jobs

because it's you're on set and you're not.

You're supervising,

making sure that everyone is dressed

correctly as opposed to designing

what they were dressed in.

And I have to say, I enjoyed both.

I enjoyed both thoroughly

because being on a set

is exciting.

You know, it's fun.

You're, you know, you're

part of the whole creative atmosphere

of everybody

trying to create the director's vision.

And, you know, in real time,

there's a lot of hurry up and wait.

But it was exciting and nice.

So I got to do both.

I got to do

I got to costume design some films.

I got to be an assistant designer

more often, and I did a lot of

wardrobe supervision as well,

which is something that you then later

on carried

into a passion

for some of your children's plays.

Yeah, I continued my costume

design, children's plays.

Yes you did.

And, you know, I always marvel

you'd go to, you know, the Salvation Army

or you'd go somewhere, a secondhand shop,

and you come home with these

old coats and linens and tablecloths,

and you would just transform them

into these marvelous fairy tale costumes

that were just magnificent.

And it was, I understand, a little bit

better all the work now that you put into

figuring out how to make it all work,

but your vision was always really cool.

I always really loved it.

It's always fun

and it was fun to see your drawings too.

So you had that?

Yeah.

No, it was,

it was always really neat to see.

So. So you've now, you know, in your,

you know, your artistic career timeline.

I'm going to jump

ahead now, you you're

you're raising your family.

But you still have this creative urge.

And, as long as I have known you,

which was still in your children were

very young.

You were already using things

that were either,

you know, linens from your

your relatives or,

repurposed dryer sheets.

I remember how happy everybody

was with dryer sheets.

And you were giving them

second and third lives as art materials,

all these things. So.

So can you tell us a little bit

about how you chose to express yourself

when you children were little

and using all these supplies,

and why that was something

that you were interested in.

And, and I,

I'm asking a little bit as well as,

you know,

why weren't you looking at fast fashion?

You know,

the disposable nature of fashion,

since that was something, a world that

you had been in, why did you transition?

Or is is it just because it was more

accessible and easier

to do things from the home and using items

that were in your home?

Can you talk a little bit

about what compelled you to work this one?

Well, I think honestly, I

at that time when I started creating.

I guess art quilts or, fabric collage

artworks,

I really wasn't thinking that far back

into my fashion days.

I was thinking about it

as being a creative outlet.

You know, I had little kids.

There's not that much time for creativity

when you got two toddlers.

But I wanted that creative outlet.

I couldn't not have a creative outlet.

And it first started with,

you know, I'm going to decorate

my daughter's room and I'm going

to make the bumpers for the crib.

And, you know, I'm going to

make a pretty pillow for my mother

in law or whatever.

It was just it's the started off

as completely.

For family, for decorative purposes.

I didn't have time to go

looking for fabrics, shopping for fabrics

at that time.

Thankfully, I had a lot of scraps

from my previous projects,

so I kind of was just like,

all right, I only, you know,

the kid is down for a nap.

I got a half an hour.

What do I have that I have access to,

that I don't have to leave the house for?

And you know, internet was not what it was

now what it is now.

So I couldn’t

just order some fabric online either,

So I think it started from that

and only later on, as I.

Realized that I really wanted

to have an art practice,

and I really dove

into making art, not just

gifts or decorative items,

that I wanted to concentrate

on, specifically having an art practice.

That's when I started thinking more

about where my materials were coming from.

being thrifty was important to me.

That's always kind of been

in my background.

growing up in the Soviet Union,

that's just how you were,

there weren't enough a lot of resources.

So I think that was kind of baked into me

somehow, somewhere.

And I really enjoyed experimenting

with strange materials.

I mean, from the very beginning,

before I even knew

what dryer sheets were made from,

you know,

I was combining them with candy wrappers

and things because it was just fun.

You know, I wasn't thinking

of the implications of that.

Like, you know,

now I'm working with single use plastic.

I was using it then,

but was I thinking about,

you know, how bad single use plastic

is for the environment?

No, I was just intrigued by the material

and I was experimenting.

Well,

so let let's talk about that for a minute.

I mean, I think that you have a mindset

of experimentation.

And I'm wondering if, you know,

sometimes I have been guilty

of looking at a piece of cloth

and saying it's too beautiful to cut,

and then it sits on a shelf forever,

and you

don't seem to in my outside of you,

you look at as

you look at everything as an opportunity

as opposed to anything being too precious.

So can you talk a little bit about,

how your mind works

when it comes to either asking questions

about looking at a material

or how you could experiment?

Or do you say, I have a vision

and what can I use for that?

Or do you say,

here is a material, gosh, what can it do?

Or is it a combination of both?

How do how do you

how do you approach the ephemera?

The, the things you pick up on a walk,

the plastics that you save.

How do you approach them as materials?

How have you sort of created that mindset

of experimentation and exploration,

which I think has obviously helped

you evolve as an artist?

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know that I can explain this.

It's just I've always

I always enjoy experimenting.

I don't think.

Of anything as too precious.

But then maybe I haven't really worked

with anything that is super precious.

You know, I, I don't work with.

Yards of gorgeous brocade fabric

that costs $100 a yard.

I work with a couple of scraps of it that

I happen to have in my pile, you know?

So it's never that kind of fabric

to cut into that would stop me.

And I think that I, you know,

certainly when I was making costumes

and if I was making costumes from

beautiful, expensive fabric, I would,

you know, be precious about it

and made sure

I measured a bunch of times before

I cut into it because it was precious.

But, when it came to my art.

I don't know, it did.

It just didn't feel nothing. Felt

precious.

It was.

I think when I first started

creating art, I had I would have a vision.

I would

decide that I wanted to create

something.

I would sometimes sketch it out, 

make a couple of doodles of it,

and then I would go forward with it

and I would be like, all right,

I need red for this, this part here.

What do I have that's going to achieve

what I have envisioned in my head?

And I just go for it

and just try to figure it out

and it actually winds up

transforming

from what I originally have in my head.

And usually it's,

you know, even better than I first

imagined it, because I kind of

let it evolve on its own.

I kind of let the

material speak to

me, and the image speaks to me,

and it just

it evolves as I'm working on it

and I think for the better, from what

my original image in my head was.

So, I mean, it's if I can summarize,

which I think is fascinating,

you have an idea, but you're not so rich

and you're willing to be fluid

in the way that you work.

And so your experimentation,

while it starts off

in one direction,

you're very willing to let it go.

And I think that that's what you sort of

get out of your own way and you don't say,

well, it has to be, you know, X,

you're willing to let it

evolve into ABC. Yes.

And I think that that's,

that's really fascinating.

I think that the way an artist's

mind works,

I know it's hard to put into words

how your creative process works,

but I think this spirit of

exploration, experimentation,

what if is you know, it's sort of a

an inquiry

and creative process that I think,

you know, it's pretty fascinating.

Well, I just want to make clear, though,

you know, if I'm

it's not like I decide

I'm going to make a rose.

And as I work on it, it

all of a sudden becomes,

you know,

a whole bouquet of different flowers.

And, you know, it's a world that horse.

Right?

Like, it's not like that, that I know

people wind up with a rose.

It's just right. Right.

But the way that the rose looks

or how it's shaded or what materials is

you're open to,

you know, the suggestions of your studio

and the suggestions of your materials,

which I think

is really pretty fascinating,

or the limitations of my materials

actually, I found a lot of satisfaction

in the limitations of my materials.

Really?

Well, yeah, we have an example of that.

Well,

it's just,

you know, my this is my scrap basket,

and these are the only three scraps of red

I have in there.

So what else can I add

to these three scraps?

Can I add some oranges and yellows

and make my red a really vibrant red that,

you know, goes through several different

shades of red

in order to appear as a red from far away.

You know, it's that, like, I.

What can I create from what I have

without having to run out to the store?

And I think at first it started

as a necessity, and then eventually

it became my M.O., my challenge to myself,

this is how I work, but we'll just will.

I never go to the store

and of course I'll go to the store.

But, you know, I.

Right? Right.

So so when you're talking

about the limitations of your materials

and the things that you might add in

as you're creating

whatever it is that you're describing,

is there some way that you look at things

and say, you know,

actually I think I'm

going to use stitch here versus, you know,

how many layers

are you willing to put in together?

And I imagine it's infinite,

although you don't have an infinite number

of materials, obviously.

But, you know,

part of what I think is fascinating

in looking at your artwork

is that your artwork is clear and crisp.

It doesn't get muddied

by layers of things.

And I think that that's a really,

you know, how do you

how do you know when to stop?

It just intuitively comes to you.

Yeah, I just it's yeah, I think

the artwork tells you when to stop.

Either,

you know, it's.

Yeah, I.

It's kind of like you've just

reached the stage, whether it's,

it looks good.

I'm happy with the way it looks.

I could add some more over here.

But then it's going to take it

into a whole other direction.

So maybe I better stop down.

Or, you know, I usually work in a series.

I jump between a couple of pieces

because I reach a stage

with one piece

going, this is I'm

not sure if this is working.

I'm not sure where to go.

So I'm going to go work on this piece

over here because I know

where that one is going,

and I'll get back to that one.

So it's kind of back and forth.

I'm never working on just one piece.

And then, yeah,

I think the piece itself just tells me

or sometimes, to be honest, I'm like,

all right, I'm done.

I'm tired.

This is what this is

how it's going to look, because I'm done

and I want to move on to that next thing.

Right, right, right, right.

Well, you know, it's

sort of like sometimes in photography

they tell you sometimes try not to edit

the photos, you know, within a very short

time of taking a photo because you're

still emotionally attached, given your,

you take a break to allow yourself

to look at it with fresh eyes

without being.

But I just spent so much time on it.

Or, you know, you've divorced yourself

from the emotions that you can actually

look at it with clarity.

Oh, and I

that that's something that I use a lot.

Like I

if I'm tired and things are not,

you know,

whether I'm tired of the piece that I'm

working on or just tired in general

and things are just not flowing, I

you got to get up and you got to walk away

and then look at it with fresh eyes,

whether it's an hour later,

the next day, or even two weeks later

or whatever it is, and then it gives you

a whole different perspective and be like,

oh, that part is not so bad.

I'm okay, they're here.

I need to do this now.

Do you ever, just take a photograph

of something from a distance

so that you get a different perspective?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I, I actually sometimes

we'll just even look through it

through my phone screen.

Because,

you know, you're seeing it's smaller,

so you just get it and see what pops up

more when you're looking at that.

It's smaller.

Yeah.

It's a condensation of the whole thing.

Yeah.

So let's talk about subject matter

if you don't mind

just transitioning a little bit.

You started, you know, with New York

and your love affair with,

you know, buildings and architecture,

some of which were historical buildings,

you know, from the Soviet Union

and some of them from the urban landscape

in New York City, you know, driving around

and taking pictures of water towers

and fire escapes.

And now more recently, you're doing

more of the natural environment.

So can you talk a little bit

about how your where you're

getting your inspiration and you know how

that transition has happened?

So I think

from the

when I first started working with plastics

and I was creating those, 

New York City landscapes specifically,

I also started educating myself

about plastic.

I started learning,

you know, what it is, how it's made.

And then, of course,

eventually that took me to,

what it does to the environment.

Plastic pollution

pollute pollution in general.

You know, it

just took me down into a rabbit

hole of learning more about my materials.

And as I started learning

more about that,

I'm also starting to notice

the trash on the street,

whether it's, you know,

a plastic bag stuck

in a chain link fence or just

a wrapper somewhere.

And eventually.

I started collecting more

of the squished bottles

and bottle caps and,

tattered plastic, and I just the

it started attracting me, visually,

like,

I don't know what it is,

but I've always been

at the same time,

attracted to the visual of it

and disgusted

by the visual of plastic bags

trapped in trees, flapping in the wind

as I'm driving along the highway

like it's a dual thing for me. I.

I hate to see that it's litter

and that it's pollution

and that it's dirtying the landscape and,

Making some bird's nest unlivable

or someone is eating it

and it's terrible and it's disgusting.

And at the same time,

I am visually attracted

to the way it's flapping in the breeze.

There's, you know, there's a beauty

to the way it flutters and moves.

Do you remember that movie?

The heck it was called?

With Kevin Spacey.

Was it American Beauty? I think

where with All the

Roses and, the young student and, yes,

but there was a scene there, and it was

the boy, I don't remember.

I actually don't really like.

I know Kevin Spacey got canceled and

all of that, and I don't really remember

the whole plot of the movie,

but there is a young man in the movie, and

and he takes he takes videos of things.

And he shared this, this one video

with the girl, and it's a video

he filmed a plastic bag

flopping around in the breeze

in some alleyway.

And that's all the video is, is just this

plastic bag being moved by the breeze.

And for some reason,

that image is like stuck in my head.

Like I really responded to that image.

I don't

know, maybe we need to psychoanalyze that.

I don't know.

Oh, let's not do that. No, no, no.

But I mean, we're like, you know,

I'm thinking about I mean, there are

things that can be upsetting

that are also beautiful at the same time,

you know,

and that's just what you've described.

I mean, it's, there's emotion.

So, I mean,

I think that there's an interesting

juxtaposition that in your artwork

and maybe this is part of what,

you know, if I'm going to psychoanalyze

you for a moment here,

you know,

you're looking at this inanimate object

that's so detrimental to nature

that's animated somehow by the breeze.

That's a real fascinating, duality.

And, you know, nature's planted the tree.

We've planted the plastic.

I mean it's, it's all pretty interesting

and I think that it's really fascinating,

at least when you look at your artwork

from my perspective,

that you see,

you know, plastic in an urban environment.

And I can, you know, that that jumped

using that as a material is very obvious.

But I think it's really unique

and interesting that you choose to use

this really, environmentally

dangerous material

to talk about the beauty of the world.

And I think that that's that duality

that we're talking about,

that image of the plastic in the tree.

I mean, that's

how you're expressing it in your artwork.

I think it's interesting

three dimensions now to the way

that you're expressing your artwork.

So can we talk a little bit

about how you have transitioned

in some of your installations

from a 2D installation?

You know, where you might have

a linear landscape of a fire escape,

for example,

draped from the ceiling to now

you have these hothouses and greenhouses

filled with plastic flowers,

or you have an installation where you can,

you know, follow the brook along the

the path of a patio that then leads you

to a waterfall and walls that are covered.

Can you talk a little bit about,

how you're

incorporating three dimensions

into your art practice?

Well, I really it's just that I find it

exciting.

It's, you know, it's the challenge of,

like, that brook you were talking about.

It was, You know,

I was invited to make an installation

in, in a an atrium and

it's just, you know, to me,

it was the excitement of like, all right,

how am I going to fill it with

what am I going to fill it?

I want to stick to my use

of single use plastic,

because that is my material of choice.

And the reason I use that material

is because I want to make people

aware of just how much plastic there is,

but I'm also making it beautiful,

and I want to,

I want to make something extraordinary,

something that

maybe somebody else wouldn't

imagine being made out of this.

So it's the challenge.

It's the excitement of the challenge

of how to make something.

Unexpected, So you, you know,

I mean, I think it

it is also interesting to somebody

who sees an image of your artwork

from far away, and then you get closer

and realize what it's made out of. So

what lessons

are you trying to teach people?

What things have you

perhaps learned in your self-education?

Your self Masters in plastics awareness

that you've achieved?

You know, what are you

what are some of the messages

that you hope people gain

from your art practice?

Is it specific to a, a particular piece

or an installation?

Is it just, you know, that you're hoping

that people have a greater awareness,

like you

said, of how ubiquitous plastics are?

You know, what

what are the things or

what are some of the things

that you're trying to tell people

when they look at your art?

Well, I want them to know about the fact

that plastic pollution

is a major cause of climate change.

I want them to know that

there is too much plastic in our world,

and I want people to know that

greenwashing is a huge problem, that,

you know, the fact that these companies

that are making this plastic

are telling you

that it's recycled is just a complete lie.

You know that only I think 5%

of worldwide

plastic actually gets recycled.

No, I didn't really think it was

that low.

Yeah, it's really, really low.

There's, you know, it's I think.

I think most people listening

to this podcast probably know that plastic

is a fossil fuel derived product.

But the fossil fuel industry

thinks of plastics as it's,

savior, to be honest with you,

because eventually we are all going

to be transitioning to wind energy

and sun energy and all of that.

So the The companies that are

digging up the oil from the ground

and making, you know.

Gas and oil and all of these things,

they know that their end is coming.

So they're they have decided that plastics

is their their transition industry.

Everything is made out of plastic

these days, and some of it is necessary.

I totally you know, I understand,

especially in the medical

field, you know, there's

you need all those disposables there,

but there's got to be a way to control

that as well.

I'm getting on my soapbox now.

Well, that's

but this is part of what your passion is

and this is

why you've chosen this material.

So I think it's important to understand,

what you've learned

and how you're expressing that passion

and concern

for the planet for

for all of us in your artwork.

I think that that's important to hear.

So I yeah, no, I want people to know

that there's like a whole bunch

of plastic gyres in the Pacific Ocean.

And plastic is floating,

and you can't get away

from the articles about microplastics

that it breaks down.

And that's in our brains.

It's in our placentas.

It's everywhere now.

It's in the clouds.

It's everywhere.

And what is it doing to our bodies?

What is it doing to the bodies of animals?

It's not good.

It's not good.

And we all need to be aware of it.

And we all need to, help pass legislation

like get that legislature to control it.

You know, to put laws in place

to stop it

from being such a major pollutant.

You know, we need to elect officials

who are willing to support,

you know, the plastic

packaging reduction bill

or and whatever else and every, you know,

in every, city and country and county,

there's all sorts of people who are

fighting to curb plastic pollution.

And we need to support them

in every way that we can.

So that's what I want people to know

when they see my art,

and they realize it's made out of plastic.

But at the same time, I am attracted

to the plastic as an art material.

And I want to make something

that is visually pleasing and intriguing

and it's the visual

that will first make someone look at it,

and then I can rope them in and wind up

having a plastic pollution

conversation with them.

I don't perfect, but, I, you know,

I just out of curiosity, you know,

you know, we sometimes people feel

disheartened by what's the impact

one person can make in such a global,

a massive global problem.

I'm just curious,

have you ever tried to measure or weigh

how much you have gathered

for your materials on an annual basis?

No, I think

I think that would be a little scary.

I do well, I mean, I think it would be

sort of compelling to say, you know,

gosh, I, you know, plastic bags

don't weigh very much.

But in one year I had this many pounds

of plastic bags and this amount of trash,

and that one person can gather

that much debris from the environment

sort of be an interesting experiment.

It would be.

I don't think I have time

for that, though.

I don't know, I just, you know,

it'd be sort of I was thinking somewhat

like a Felix Torres

Gonzalez who, you know, created the,

you know, all the installations

that were very,

contemporary where, you know,

like the pile of bazooka gum

that someone compared

to, you know, Vietnam War and death

and, you know,

what's the weight of our impact?

You know, if you sort of an interesting

it would be interesting,

I think, in my Instagram bio,

I say something

like 10,000 bags saved from the ocean

or something like that,

but it is a made up number.

But I think that I have

probably come close to 10,000 bags

over all the years for sure.

Over the years I probably have, sure.

yeah, I don't know that I can go there.

Seriously? Yeah.

No, I'd rather be making it instead of,

you know, where I know.

No. Well,

I mean, it's really cool to say, like,

I filled up this many size boxes

this year.

I mean, certainly you have an endless, 

unfortunately,

you have an endless supply of materials.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is so.

So what does your studio look like?

You know, for anybody who doesn't

understand how you work and, you know,

you're not using anything, cookie,

you're using regular, normal

equipment for the most part

to create your artwork or art. You.

I mean, it's not like you're

you've got some specialized, you know.

No, I don't have any specialized

machinery.

I mainly use a sewing machine.

I use glue, I use hand stitching.

I do work with resin,

It requires some silicone molds.

So now I just have very basic

my studio is pretty small.

I would say it's about ten by ten,

but my ceilings are nice and high.

They're probably close to 20.

Well, maybe they're not 20ft,

I don't know, 15ft, something like that.

I haven't measured. I'm

not into measuring.

I just wing things.

That, that's that's your craft.

That was not. That's not my gift.

so so let's talk a little bit

about, you know, you've just talked

about your studio space, and I.

I know you've created everything

from outdoor installations

to the artwork for a seed packet

to the design for a casino ceiling.

Can you talk a little bit about

the different ways that you've been able

to get some of your artwork out there

and the different things?

I mean,

I think some of this is just fascinating.

Oh, sure.

So but the picture of your

that I've seen of your casino,

it looks like stained glass.

Well, remarkable.

So that's a little bit of an illusion

because the artwork that I created

for the casino ceiling

I think it was 24 inch circle.

Wow. It was a small artwork that they

then scanned and had printed on vinyl.

And that's what's on the ceiling.

So it's my artwork

enlarged on the ceiling of the casino.

So it's really cool, Yeah,

I made a 24 inch circle

and they blew it up into a 24ft circle

or maybe even larger.

I can't remember

now. So that's, you know,

that was a commissioned artwork,

the seed packet as well.

You know, that's,

that was a commissioned artwork I made.

I think I made a 12 by 12 artwork,

and then while they actually scanned that,

it made it smaller for the seed packet.

So it was the other way

it goes.

It goes both ways, I guess. Yeah.

You also have all these installations

that you've made, you know, things

that people can walk through

and can enjoy, and touch.

I wonder,

I mean, like people that touch them.

And you've also done things

where it's not solely your artwork.

You've

encouraged the community to participate.

Do you want to share a little bit with

how about how you've

encouraged the community to be part

of your installations in your artwork?

most of my installations,

I have always asked the community

to help me collect the materials for it.

You know,

whether I'm making a gigantic garden or,

you know, that river or whatever.

Sometimes I'm asking the community

to collect supplies for me, such as I need

blue and green bottle caps and plastic

of all sizes and blue and green.

Help me out.

And people

do. People will collect things for you.

Or like all of my flower installations.

I asked people to collect plastic for me.

I would ask people to collect some to cut

cut some plastic from their home

and do some petals for me.

And people do

that. People are so generous.

And then they also, instead of

just cutting it into petals,

they will make flowers out of it and

send me the flowers for my installation.

So the generosity of other artists

online is really quite incredible.

I love that so much.

That's

that has been a really fun thing for me,

because a lot of times

when I'm making an installation like that,

I'm on a deadline and I can only make

so many flowers in the day.

So when other people are contributing

you know, it

makes for a more interesting installation,

because then there's so many different

ways of making plastic flowers

and so many different plastics,

and the variety becomes

so much more than it was just

it was me making them,

and the volume becomes so much more

and sometimes the volume of the one thing,

a simple flower,

when you know there's ten of it,

it becomes some one thing,

but when there's a thousand of it,

it becomes something else.

So the impact of the art

becomes a lot more so.

I love being able to include the community

in something like that.

Right now,

I'm actually doing something completely

different with the community,

and it's really exciting.

In my Repurposer Collective,

we are making a collaborative project.

So I designed a a really long

and narrow image, which I made from images

8

of, of the planet,

from space, from, from the past.

NASA and I think Britannia images

and it's my own pictures of clouds

and waves.

And I created this image

and I broke it up into sections.

And the members of repurposed

our collective are

everyone is creating at least one section,

whether it's a large section

or a big section.

we're going to put it together

all the different sections

made by the different people into one 32ft

artwork.

That is so cool.

I can't wait.

It's going to be it's

going to be really interesting

because I have already

some sections have already arrived.

And it's the same imagery,

but they're all just a little different

and they're using different repurposed

materials.

So it's going to be

I can't wait to see it all together.

It's going to be very exciting,

but that's a different type

of a collaboration with the public

that I'm really enjoying.

And it's I mean, it's

not with the public out there.

It's within a community, but still it's

when will that be unveiled?

October 4th at the Unison Arts Center.

Oh, that's really, really cool.

so do you.

What would you like to share more

about what you do

with in your Repurposer Collective and, 

what the.

You know, what that community is like?

Oh, sure.

I am biased.

I love the peeps in my community.

They are from all over the world.

It's still a small community

slowly growing, which is just perfect.

Because we all get to know each other.

We meet on zoom once a month,

for a regularly scheduled programing.

And whether that's I have a guest artist

who comes in and talks

about their art practice

or I do something, that I talk about,

something that I have seen

or have done or whatever,

or we just share

what everyone is working on.

we do that once a month, but we also have

these, I call it the Co-work circle.

So I just,

you know, pick AA3 hour block of time

when I know that I'll be in my studio

and I turn on zoom

and whoever pops and pops

in, there's no programing or anything.

We just pop in and chat.

And sometimes it's been a full house and, 

no work is getting done.

We're just talking.

But other times it's just the person here

and there and, you know, everybody's

working on their thing and just chatting.

So that's really nice.

And this year we had our first,

I'm calling it our first annual

because there will be definitely

a second one and a third and whatever.

But we had our first annual exhibit,

rather.

Yeah. Thank you.

That was really exciting.

So we were in a gallery

and it was curated

by Patricia Miranda,

who is a renowned educator and artist.

And we had a really wonderful exhibit.

And then this opportunity

came up to exhibit again.

So two exhibits in a year, I,

I was kind of like,

all right, well,

we just had our first annual we can't.

So our second annual,

the year that came up.

So what can we do to make it different?

And that's when I came up with the idea

for this collaborative project.

So we're all making one artwork.

So it's not our second annual.

It's just a one off,

but maybe our second annual,

which will be in 2026.

Maybe for that one, we can,

you know, include the collaborative

artwork and other artwork.

So we'll see. We'll see what happens.

But there are already plans

for the second annual next year.

And of course, you know,

so I'm one of those people

who loves to collect information.

I don't always,

remember where I've collected it.

Like how

I can make glasses other than my head.

Yeah, well,

I quite like that, but, you know.

Oh, my God,

that's a really interesting article.

I need to put it aside because I'm going

to come back to it and read it again.

or, interesting quote by somebody

or a documentary I've watched or,

you know, or just a really good book

I read and I would be saving this

all the stuff and files on my computer.

But now that I have the collective,

it's all in there.

So I actually can read

from a resource library. Yes.

And a tidbit inspiration corner.

Yes. It's

and it's really it's actually quite large.

Yeah. We have an idea, a resource vault.

So, you know,

if you're looking for some inspiration

or just an interesting article

to read, there's tons of that in there.

And actually now have some members

who have sent me

articles as well to include in there.

So it's

not just my library for them to peruse,

but I'm actually adding things

that are from the members.

And of course, you know,

there is masterclasses in there so people

can, if they want to know how to stitch

single use plastic.

There's like a whole bunch

of masterclasses about how to do that

or whatever else.

There's actually over 40 masterclasses

in there now.

So all sorts of things,

good things like that, but for sure.

So this is this is a destination.

It is it is worth lots of opportunity

for different things that people can do.

Sort like a vacation.

I'd like to dabble a bit, you know,

this weekend I’ll dabble in information.

Next week I'm going to dabble in in

in in a master class.

Oh following week I'll do a co-work.

You know, it's it's an opportunity

to do all different sorts of things,

like a vacation and participate

in an art exhibit if you wish to.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it is a really great collective

and, you know, it is it's exciting

that you have

you know what I, what I've been amazed

by is just how many different people

are actually using repurposed materials

and all the different ways

that they're expressing their desire

to help the planet,

and to create something out of what

other people might consider trash.

So and that leads me a little bit

into your practice of plalking, and,

and how, you know, you've incorporated

this just in your daily walks.

What what does it mean?

And where did you hear about it?

And where is where is this adventure

taking you Plalking

is p l a l k I n g I can I spell?

And it's a mash

up of picking up trash

while walking, basically.

Where did I hear about it?

I think it might have been my friend

Mindy.

But there's many of us out there

who walk along and pick up trash.

And I think that an important thing to do,

whether it's part of your art

practice or not.

I don't understand people who litter.

That just doesn't make sense to me.

You just don't.

You want your environment to be clean.

I don't I don't I don't understand it.

I understand that some trash just

gets blown off from the recycling can.

From the garbage can, whatever it happens.

I understand that, but I think that

if you're able to pick up some trash

on your walk, you should do that

and dispose of it properly.

And I am one of those people

who has have taken that

to a whole other crazy level, perhaps,

and but I am not alone in this.

There are so many of us

who walk along the beach or in the woods

or wherever else, and pick up trash

and then use it as their art material.

I don't expect everybody to do that.

I would just

be happy if somebody picked up the trash

and disposed of it.

But yeah, I, you know, it's

the experimental nature of that.

I just, for me, that's what's exciting.

Do I use all the trash that I pick up?

No, there's plenty of trash

that I dispose of properly instead.

But there is other trash that I.

I'll find something intriguing, you know,

I like my my walks are in the woods,

and I've been finding two things right now

that are really intriguing to me.

I. One thing is I find glass shards.

And I first started

picking them up because I was like,

oh my God, my dog can step on that.

And that could really hurt.

And he's not the only dog in here.

And there's other,

you know, animals in here.

I'm just going to pick it up. And then.

And then I'm like,

oh, look at the pretty colors.

Look, this one is, you know, a turquoise.

And this one is green

and this one a darker green.

And there's the look at this pretty brown.

And like, even the clear one.

And look at the shape of it.

So I'm collecting this

I haven't done much with with those yet

but I'm collecting those

because they're just intriguing to me.

Next. What's next.

We'll hear that

you're doing a glassblowing class,

and all these little shards

are going to turn you like,

I don't see that have melted down

and turn it into something else.

But hey, never say never. Right?

I mean, I have to say, you

you know, we often

hike in the national parks, and my husband

and I are very different hikers.

My husband is a he can look all around

and not trip over his own feet.

I have to watch where I'm walking.

And there's a benefit to always

being the person who's huffing and puffing

and going slowly,

because I find a lot of trash that's.

I do not use it in my art material

because most of the time I'm like,

I really don't know where this has been.

But I, you know, it is

it is remarkable that even in someplace

like a national park, that there's mean.

Just the other day,

we went for a hike and around the campsite

here ties the little sections

around the bottom of a,

but you know where you can pull the cap.

That's, you know, there's a little

almost like a tug that opens up, you know,

those were on the ground.

Rubber bands were on the ground.

We found a,

It almost looked like a part of a camera.

I mean,

how does somebody lose a part of a camera?

It's amazing

how many little things you can find

if you actually start to look for it.

Yeah, you're

you're always watching the ground.

Well, but that's how it was for me,

because this is the place where I walk.

It's not even paved pathways.

There's roots

and rocks and stuff and stuff.

So I have to look where I'm going or I'm

going to wind up with a bloody nose.

You know, or in a bush.

But I'm looking down because it is rocky

and it's not paved.

And I'm, I'm just I'm always surprised

by how much there still is, even

in an environment where people are always

reminded, carry out, don't disturb.

And that's not an excuse for not doing it

anywhere else just to be clear.

But, you know, I'm finding stuff in places

that are supposed

to be pristine that everybody is sort of

invested in keeping pristine.

It's, you know, it's only worse.

Yeah.

You know, so, so you, you know, you

started to experiment with, with resin,

you know, you had your geo crumbs,

which I thought was really interesting

and sort of a, a record and map

of plastics in a particular environment.

And you keep changing and evolving

because of presence of fairly new things.

So it's, it's pretty a good stage.

You recently talked

about being in a goo stage and,

you know, the whole notion

of transformation and metamorphosis

that you likened to from a

you know, a caterpillar cocoon butterfly.

Yeah.

What does it mean to be in the goo stage.

So I think a goo stage is

sort of where you're moving on

from one way of working

to a different way of working,

but you're not quite sure

what that's going to be like.

I have found myself not wanting to make

my architecturally inspired pieces

or my nature inspired pieces.

You know, all the stitched 2D artworks.

I've.

I guess I've made them for so many years

that I've sort of lost interest in them.

I still like the artwork that I've made,

and I teach workshops

my techniques

on how to make those types of artworks.

But I found myself not wanting

to make them in any way.

I just, I, I've even tried, you know,

like to make another sample for a workshop

and I just, I, I don't know,

I have no interest in it at all.

I am finding myself

interested in the glass shards.

I pick up the squashed

plastic water bottles

that I'm picking up, and I'm mending them.

Mending for no good reason

So I think a goo stage is like a

transitional stage,

like I, I'm finding myself

not wanting to make pretty pictures,

Interested currently in making,

you know, large.

Flower artworks

or, you know, or big cityscapes.

There's nothing wrong with those,

but I'm just not.

I don't feel the tug to do it.

You know,

there was a time where I couldn't wait

to get on to the next

architecturally inspired artwork.

Oh, which buildings

can I put together in here now?

And how do I do that?

I wish that was exciting.

I don't find it exciting anymore.

Not, you know,

maybe I'll get back to it someday.

But right now,

I feel like I'm in a transition

to another type of artwork.

I think perhaps more abstract,

not representational,

is what's really interesting to me now.

And I want to do more installations.

So. Yeah.

So that that's my stage,

very kind of where it's going.

Mending is mark making amends.

Mending is, you know, so it's it's

so you're intrigued by the marks

we make as humans on the planet,

the marks and how you're incorporating

those into your own mark making

and trying to create something out of them

that's thought provoking.

There you go.

Well thank you.

There's my artist statement.

Let me write that down. So.

it's sort

of interesting, you know, like like how,

you're still interested in

what's left behind,

but it is inspiring you in different ways,

and it's

causing you to ask different questions.

So, you know, I think what, you know,

one of the things that I think

is fascinating in your art practice

is that you continue to evolve,

but all along the

to the same purpose and to the same end,

but it's expressed in different ways.

And and that's the way

a good teacher does it,

is they find different ways to give

the same message to their students.

And you're doing the same way,

you're doing it the same way,

finding different things that intrigue

you, asking different questions,

but all hoping to get an answer to

how do we solve this problem of plastics?

Yeah.

You know, I'm

not going to solve the problem of plastic,

but I think we all collectively can.

Well, and there's an awareness.

I mean, I think that I think

once you asked people to set aside

just for a couple of days,

all the things that were single use

plastic as part of a project

I think you were doing with your kids,

with your girls.

And, we were like, it was just

how much you found, you know,

whether it was the

the plastic or the styrofoam for the meat,

you know, the plastic

that was encasing the meat,

all the things that were that

the plastic bags that you brought home,

your vegetable, your produce in, you know.

Oh, I just about myself some new scissors,

you know, the hard plastic

that's in casing the scissors

or all the different things.

The twist ties, all the different things

that were not regular trash.

Yeah, I think built as it awareness.

And it was a fascinating exercise.

Yeah.

I think it's something

that everybody should do just for a week.

Just whatever you buy,

just pay attention to what it comes in.

And I bet you it comes in plastic. Right.

So so what are some practical things

that you've changed in your life,

to help minimize your impact on this?

Well, the easiest thing to do is whenever

I go food shopping, I bring my own bag.

That's number one.

And even though in New York State,

in theory, plastic bags are outlawed,

it's not a very, well enforced law.

And now now they're selling you

plastic bags that you can buy,

or they're giving you plastic bags

that look like fabric,

but they're really plastic.

the companies are finding ways

to still give you more plastic.

the easiest thing to do

is to either make yourself

some bags or buy yourself some bags

and bring your own bags.

And that includes mesh bags

for fruits and veggies

you don't get that roll of plastic

that you just rip off by the apples

and fill you apples in there.

So bring those in.

I think it's not that hard to do.

You can get used to it.

I keep a bag of bags in my car.

They're always there.

I do too, I recently discovered,

one of the things that I struggled with is

how do you save half the avocado

or the lemon that you haven't done?

And they actually sell containers

where you can seal them.

And just so you're not always

using plastic wrap.

All right.

But there's that container.

Is that container still plastic though.

It's made out of plastic.

But I have but but however I have been

using it now for 7 or 8 months.

Okay. But here's the other thing.

But what am I what am I missing?

So that plastic container

is leaching chemicals into your avocado.

Through what?

Through apart through touching the the

the plastic itself.

By touching your avocado

it slowly is leaching out chemicals.

Even if I eat it the next day.

Probably not.

But how about you use a glass jar instead?

Because then, well,

I don't actually have enough glass jars.

I don't have storage space actually,

for glass jars, that's something.

So I live in a place

where recycling is really hard.

The thing is really hard.

Because there's a limitation to even

who can pick up the trash.

And so all I can actually do.

So I live in a in a smaller condo,

don't have a lot of space.

So that's one of my compromises. Yeah.

At least not using plastic.

But I did, you know, I didn't

even think about things leaching in.

Yeah, I have to make sure

that I eat my avocados the very next day.

So that's one thing that I've been doing,

like I've been replacing.

I don't know what the 

I think, you know, all the Tupperware,

I've been replacing it with glass jars

and I've done that.

you can save the jar from your,

you know, tomato sauce

or whatever and reuse that,

or you can buy glass Tupperware, you know,

:13

with plastic lids or metal lids or glass

lids.

You can buy stackable containers

that are not plastic.

You can't. I have done that.

I have done that, which I think is helpful

simply as well, because

I think it became apparent

that I was having a problem and the lids

or things were just getting stained. Yeah.

And you're like, oh, well, it's

not quite as impermeable as I thought.

Yeah.

So, so, so who inspires you as an artist?

Or multiple artists name?

Oh, I might want to consider looking at

and also being inspired by and and reading

what they do and or other organizations

that you think people should,

you know, look into, you know,

whether that be something oceanic

or whether that somehow repurposing

old tires, I don't know,

you know.

So as far as organizations,

the one I always talk about is Beyond

Plastics.

It's a small grassroots are organization

that's fighting for,

changing laws in order to protect us

from the plastic mess that we're in.

So I would highly recommend

Beyond Plastics.

You can take a course from them

to learn all about plastic pollution,

or you can just support them in many ways.

You can, you know, meet them

at your legislators offices and they

they will help you draft a bill

or whatever they they're there

to change it from the legal standpoint,

which I think is very important.

And there's many other organizations

that are just as, you know,

doing the right things and,

and fighting climate change and, you know,

fighting plastic pollution.

5

But they're the ones that I will mention

always.

And as far as being inspired by every

by artists, every artist

that I have interviewed for this podcast

inspires me

because they all do something different.

They think about the materials

that they use differently,

and they all are concerned

about what we're doing to this planet, how

we need to make it cleaner, better for us

and for our children and all of that.

So every artist that I interviewed for

this podcast is an inspiration,

and every artist I will interview for this

podcast will be an inspiration.

And every day I discover a new artist

who's repurposing

some material that cannot be recycled,

whether it's plastic or not.

You know, I've interviewed artists

who are not using plastic on this podcast.

There are many things

that we can reuse out there,

and I, I highly recommend

reuse of all sorts,

whether it's for your art practice

or for your kitchen.

Here, here I agree.

don't know.

Are you discovering these artists?

A lot of them I discover on Instagram.

You know, I still enjoy Instagram

because it's just it's just such a visual

social media platform for me.

So I'll be scrolling through

and maybe because I have liked

so many of these artists,

so many more of them.

0

Keep finding the algorithm.

Finds them for me.

Got it.

Okay, okay,

so I know everybody go to my Instagram,

follow everybody that I'm following

and then you'll learn more.

But that's it.

That's a real good practical tip. There

we go.

you know, maybe plastics doesn't

speak to some person, but,

you know, reusing,

who knows what it is upholstery.

You know, I, you know,

I like fabric, whatever it might be,

I think be having the opportunity

to see other people and how they're just

transforming these materials

in whatever shape or way it might be

can be really, really inspiring.

Absolutely.

And I think sometimes you don't know

what you're missing

without having some little prompt,

and I, you know, I think that, you know,

I think there's an opportunity to learn to

and an awareness, you know, here today,

I've already learned I should not be using

those little plastic things

to figure something else out.

Sorry. Not sorry.

No, no,

but I mean, but this is part of what

these conversations are supposed to be

for us about learning and exploring.

And, you know,

it's, it's not just one person's problem.

It isn't. It's all of us.

we we all have to be

a part of the solution.

for I would like to return to the notion

of introspection,

that we talked about

at the very beginning.

And as you look at your practice

and you consider what you've done,

what are the things that you're

most proud of?

What are the things that you hope

to learn going forward

as you reflect back on your,

your art career and your advocacy?

And what what are you

what do you think most about

and what's meaningful for you

in all of this journey?

Well, I think I am a lifelong learner.

I'm always happy to learn something new,

whether it's, you know,

how to use some kind of material

or a new fact about something else.

I love to.

I love to take classes. I love to learn.

I love to read, watch.

You know, I'm always curious.

And I think curiosity is an important,

thing in anyone's art practice.

I think that, curiosity is how you can.

Evolve your art practice. That's.

I think that's how my art

practice has evolved.

Is just. It's a curiosity.

Oh, look, what can this do?

How can I make this work?

What about that thing right there?

You know,

I think I think that's important. And.

not just, curiosity is not just important

for your art practice.

It's important for life.

I think, you know, it's just,

it's a it's a good skill to cultivate.

You know, I

agree, I, you know, I,

I sometimes feel like I'm squirrel,

you know, going on to something else,

whatever that might be, but I, you know,

I agree, being curious is important

because asking questions

means that you're not presuming

you know, all the answers.

Yeah. And I and I, I like that notion.

I, you know, I, I have found watching

your art practice evolve

just to be a fascinating journey

for myself.

No, I,

you know, it's it's such a, you know,

you know,

I feel blessed to sort of have visually

the sort of retrospective

of your art practice in my memory,

you know, from the very beginning

where you were covering

stones with dyed, dryer sheets.

And I remember the candy wrappers and,

you know, all of that, and,

you know, now seeing where you are now,

you know, if you might show

one of these little diaphanous abstract

fairy, Russian fairy tale types of pieces

and you'd look at a resin piece,

you'd say, you know,

could that be the same artist?

But if you really follow your art practice

and you think about all the things

that you've discovered and you've explored

and you've explained visually,

and whether that be on your website

or through your collective,

it all makes sense.

And it's and it's

and it's really exciting and interesting.

So I get, you know, I get excited to wait

and see what your next reveal is

because I can't imagine

what it's going to be.

You know, sometimes I'm not.

I can't imagine it either.

But we'll find out together. So.

But it's it's it's really a privilege

and a, you know, and a pleasure.

And I, and I think that, you know, I, I,

you know, I would hope that

your listeners, follow that example

of not feeling stuck and continue

that exploration and consider that inquiry

and that that dialog that happens

not just internally, but

with your materials and your inspiration

and find new ways to express themselves

in whatever way that is.

I think that it's it's really, you you?

You don't just walk the walk.

What is it? Walk the talk.

What what what? That that thing, it.

You know, I mean, it's it's very,

very clear that you, you know,

you're not just saying

I think people should try to do this, but

you have incorporated that, and embraced

all of that in your own art practice.

And that's, you know,

and it makes for a very exciting,

view of what you've done and what you do

and what you're going to do next.

Thank you.

I love you, that's why. But it's true to

oh, you probably cut that part out.

Oh, no, because I leave it all in. Yeah.

So so is are there any final words

that you'd like to share?

We've been talking for.

You have been.

We need to wrap this up, don't we?

That this is going to be

the longest podcast episode ever.

like, oh my gosh, these two gigglers.

I would just say that,

I think it's important to find your tribe,

your community, because as artists,

I think sometimes we find ourselves

toiling away in our studios

all by ourselves.

And although I think we enjoy that,

I know I do.

I love the solitude of my studio

and just working and working and working.

But I think we also need community.

I think we also need to be able

to share our work

with others, being in community

with others

who perhaps have similar interests,

maybe they, you know, they don't have.

Maybe they're not interested

in the same subject

matter for your artwork

as like as you are.

Like if, you know,

if I'm doing architectural things

and someone is not interested

in doing architectural things, but we have

the interest of the same type of materials

for our art practice.

I think those people are important

to find, or just other artists who are.

Enjoying discovering interesting things,

I think.

I think you need to find

those kind of people for yourself,

because it's more fun that way

and, enriching to yeah,

the someone that someone else will always

have something interesting to say

that you never even considered before,

and you never know who that person

is going to be.

So, it's nice to have community,

to be able

to bounce ideas off

each other, to support each other.

you know, make alongside of.

I think it's important.

It is, Well, thank you so much.

01:15:44:03 - 01:15:45:04

This has been a privilege.

And, you know, I thank you for letting me

be part of this conversation.

And thank you for willing to do this

conversation, because it was a nice

catch up for us because we haven't

talked like this in a long time.

You know, it has been a long time.

Exactly. We'll have to make sure it's not.

We don't

we don't wait that long again. Yes.

But I'm looking forward

to seeing the reveal.

October 4th. You said yes.

That's a really important reveal.

I can't wait to see that.

I'm very intrigued

by all of the things that you've told us.

So I I'm looking forward to seeing how

that works and looking forward

to hearing more about,

what the collective is going to do next.

You know, I have been remiss in exploring

your collective website

as thoroughly as I should have.

And I'm going

to have to do a better job of that.

And I'm looking forward

to looking up the resources and,

you know, asking questions

and exploring more.

So I think that that's certainly

on my to do list.

Awesome.

And, you know, I look forward to

whenever we get our next chat.

Definitely.

Thank you so much for being

oh my gosh, thank you.

This has been fun.

This podcast was created, produced

and edited by me, Natalya Khorover.

Theme music by RC Guide.

To find out more about me,

go to art by natalya.com to find out about

my community.

Go to Repurposer collective.com

and to learn with me.

Check out all my offerings

at EcoLoop, Dot Art.

Thank you for listening.