Conversation with Aurora Robson

Please enjoy my conversation with Aurora Robson. 

Aurora is a visual artist predominantly known for working with plastic waste. She was born in Toronto, grew up in Hawaii, and later lived in New York City, where she studied structural metal welding (she is a NYS Certified Structural Welder!) and worked in film, construction and entertainment.  She studied art history and visual art at Columbia University.

Throughout her career, Aurora has developed many ways to sculpt with plastic debris, including fastening, weaving, sewing, ultrasonic welding, injection welding and 3-D printing. She shares these methods with others who want to reduce and transform plastic waste. Aurora has received several awards, including the Pollock-Krasner Grant and a New York Foundation for the Arts Fellowship. She also founded Project Vortex, a global collective of artists and designers working with plastic debris. Currently, Aurora lives in the Hudson Valley with her family, cats, garden, fruit trees, and a very expressive dog.

She says that her practice is a form of serious play. Aurora works in a variety of mediums, but have dedicated the majority of the past twenty years to working with post-consumer and post-industrial plastic aka plastic pollution. In order to maintain her creative rational optimism, play is essential, but her work is also a meditative exercise in subjugating negativity and a practice of radical acceptance. 

https://www.aurorarobson.com/ 

https://www.instagram.com/aurorarobson/?hl=en 

https://www.thegreatwomenartists.com/katy-hessel-podcast

https://meatpacking-district.com/

https://beaconscloset.com/

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-if-we-get-it-right/id1773809532

https://www.projectvortex.org/

https://ecoartspace.org/

This podcast was created by Natalya Khorover. It was produced and recorded by Natalya, as well as researched and edited by her. SALVAGE is a product of ECOLOOP.ART.

If you enjoy this show, please rate and review us wherever you’re listening—and be sure to come back for another conversation with a repurposed media artist.

Music theme by RC Guida

Visit Natalya’s website at www.artbynatalya.com

Visit Natalya’s community at www.repurposercollective.com

Visit Natalya’s workshops at https://www.ecoloop.art/

Transcript

Welcome to Salvage, a podcast for conversations with artists about the repurposed materials they use in their art practice.

Well, thank you so much for agreeing to do this. Of course. I'm sorry it took so long and so happy to finally have made it work. I think that whatever delays we've made have had in the schedule, I think they were just the right thing. I think it has to be that. Yeah.

Yeah. That exactly. I don't think I could, I had the bandwidth honestly to understand, you know, it's been a very strange maybe five years sometimes. Wow. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm gonna ask you all about that. Oh. Or maybe somebody that's right in. Okay. So I'd like to, I usually start with an introduction. So please enjoy my conversation with Aurora Robson.

Aurora is a visual artist predominantly known for working with plastic waste. She was born in Toronto, grew up in Hawaii, and later lived in New York City, where she studied structural metal welding. She's a New York State certified structural welder, and I will be asking you about that and has worked in film, construction and entertainment. She studied art history and visual art at Columbia University.

Throughout her career, Aurora has developed many ways to sculpt with plastic debris, including fastening, weaving, sewing, ultrasonic welding, injection, welding, and 3D printing. She shares these methods with others who want to reduce and transform plastic waste. Aurora has received several awards, including the Pollock Krasner Grant and the New York Foundation for the Arts Fellowship. She also founded Project Vortex, a global collective of artists and designers working with plastic debris.

Currently, Aurora lives in the Hudson Valley with her family, cats, garden, fruit trees, and a very expressive dog who has joined us. And I cannot wait to dive into our conversation. Okay, so I don't know if do you listen to podcasts a lot? Yeah, I one of my favorite podcasts is, the Great Women Artists podcast. Oh, I don't know.

Oh, my God, you're going to have to listen. Okay. So good. I can just, like, dive in and listen to all of them. Oh, nice. But I love how she starts. And she was one of my inspirations for starting a podcast as well. She always starts her podcast with asking you about your childhood. So I've taken up that.

And I also ask you, an artistic kid. Definitely. Yeah. I think for me, Art, from a very early age, sort of represented possibility. You know, I had a complicated and challenging childhood by any measurement. So it was like a place where I could go, and not have interference or have, conflict or fear, you know, sort of dominate my thought processes.

Oh, so that was part of it. And then also, I think maybe it was like second grade. I think they had a poster contest. I won the poster contest for the state of Hawaii, and it meant that I got a gift certificate to go to the Sanrio store and spend like, at the time in the 70s, $50 was a lot of.

Yeah. And I was like, wait a minute, I made money making a drawing. That's crazy. So I think that, you know, that was part of the whole, like maybe there's like something I can do, you know, I didn't know how or try to do it actually for the time because I was apprehensive about telling you about the potential for, like, lack of instability.

Yeah, that kind of life would probably be, understood, you know? Yeah. Not having any stability in my childhood, I really didn't. I didn't want to have a place to have stability as an adult. But I think and yes, you did, and I'm so glad that you did. But I want to ask you about, like, your, your earlier life.

So you didn't want to succumb to the art right away, but yet you wound up working in construction and film and entertainment. Like what? What was all that? I think it happened. Okay, so when I moved to New York City, I was 18 years old and I didn't know anybody. I had $1,000 in my Doc Martin, my boot.

And that was it, you know? And I arrived and I started doing all kinds of odd jobs. I worked as a bartender, as a waitress, as a hostess in the service industry. A ton. I ended up working with this, Polish antique restorer for a while. So I learned some of that. And then I did dog walking, and I did,

What else? I just think all kinds of scenic work and film and television, I just whoever I met, I would just, like, find these little odd jobs and at one point, my brother, who, you know, so grateful that I had a brother because otherwise I would be like, did that really happen? You know, it's so great to have a I feel so lucky.

Yeah. It's sibling. We can compare notes. You know, but at one point he called me and he was like, you know, you should get into. Well, I think you'd be really good at metal welding. And I was like, why? This is a really good hand-eye coordination, like attention to detail. And it's like. So I was like, all right, you know, that was I ended up going to vocational technical school with like, I don't know, I think I was one of two women, and most of them were fresh out of jail and rehab.

Oh, wow. So it was a really a tough kind of environment. You know, I'd ride the subway covered with soot, you know, like that's normal. That's New York City though. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. But it was great. I, you know, I, I was good at it and it was great because I learned how to read blueprints.

And I learned how to kind of create things that would defy gravity. And initially I started making sculpture. Oh. And that was what I was, you know, creating sculpture. And then I was like, oh I could get side gigs since I'm certified and I can actually weld with structural integrity. And I can, you know, do any number of jobs.

At that point, it was really inexpensive in the Meat Packing district. Okay. And you can actually slip on a piece of meat. It was. Yeah, I know the days are long gone. No no more, there’s like, outfit stores and and La Perla. Yeah. Products.

found a building and, you know, so I set up a welding studio, excited to make money as a welder.

And, I got it all set up. I got my acetylene tank delivered, like, you know, I was like, I had saved up to get a little MiG welder, you know, doing all the things. Got a couple jobs lined up. And then they, I guess there was like, some job turnover, and they had a new fire marshal who came in and said, no more welding in the building.

Oh, no. And I was like, so that was, you know, I was like, all right. So now I'm like, rag tag, trying to figure out where to weld in a studio with wood floors. Kind of not. Yeah. Ideal. And then shortly after, like many, many years after, I injured my back and discovered that I have an extra vertebra.

Oh, my. Which means I'm not designed to do any really heavy lifting. Oh, okay. Oh, I guess I'm not really meant for a metal thing. Yeah. You know, so, so that was kind of the end of that, and I, I put it all behind me. Forgot about it. Let go. Yeah. I, you know, I loved working with metal.

And, then one day, you know, like, fast forward 20, 34, 30 years, I discovered you could weld plastic and that's like. Yeah. Interesting. So welding skills come in handy. Yeah. Later in life. Yeah. It's surprising. I was when I meet with young people, which I do tend to do a lot of work with, like education and stuff.

As a, as a visiting artist, as a guest artist member, like, formal in a regular formal way. But, you know, I'm always trying to help people recognize that no matter how it is, out of context, a work experience might seem a part of your life. You never know when that skill is going to come in handy later.

So, yeah, just glean as many tools from the world life as you can. Wise words. Definitely. That's so cool. And then you did. Oh, you just said you did some scenic design for film and stuff, like. Yeah, I did see it painting. I did art direction. I did some production design stuff, not for film, the production design.

I was actually working my last. This was my last full time job prior to being a full time artist was at MTV networks. Oh, had Viacom and then I was working in their special events department. Oh fun. So I was working as a art director and then occasional the production designer for these events. That would take place all over the world.

And it was, amazing because, you know, I learned how to use a scale ruler, build scale models, like think about how to create things in spaces and at different scales, and have them be accurate and crews and work with teams and be able to pull off things larger than myself. Yeah. But it was so much waste.

It just felt so dirty, you know, and they just offered me a promotion, like, it's like a full time office, all the things, you know? And my mom was like, that's great. You're finally on your way. And I was like, you know, don't try to do art full time. I don't care how much money I make, I'll probably end up being a burden on society.

Like the art makes me. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So that's interesting. That's funny. Yeah. Parents, they're always, you know, they think you need a steady gig, and it makes sense. It makes life easier. I highly recommend it. Yeah, I do too, because I don't have one. I haven't had one in ages. Same thing. It's a lot. Yeah. It's very interesting.

Like living on the edge in a way. But I think of it a lot, you know, in terms of the extremes of humans, like what we're capable of and what kind of edges we're able to traverse. And also what kind of pinnacles we can achieve, you know, like, like just thinking about like a zero way studio like wow, wouldn't that be amazing if I could have solar panels and power.

All my power tools are still there panels and like me, you know, like, oh, that would be so. But it's not very realistic. Not. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. But I still love to strive for that because maybe before I die I'll be able to do that, and then maybe somebody else like somebody else would have an easier time. Yeah.

Because maybe I'll figure out a few things on the way. Absolutely. And so I'm always trying to push edges and parameters. So how did you. When you first started making art you were welding and doing sculptures like that. Was that with found metals? Not necessarily. No. No, I mean some definitely some. I mean, I was also doing a lot of weird mixed media stuff up early on.

Before I even moved to New York. It was actually when I was living in Toronto before I moved to Seattle, I was working with found objects and stuff like that. I've always been, like drawn to that kind of thing. And I think it's it's really complicated for me. It's it's not as like deep kind of energy and psychology to it that, you know, for me, I have a very strange relationship to discarded materials.

And, I think it's partially because when I was a kid growing up, I would get my clothes from the dump, my family. It was very complicated all my life. I didn't, you know, do back to school shopping. I would go to the dump and try to find stuff to wear. It was awful. Oh, my God, I'm so sorry.

This okay? I'm like, no, I made it. Yes. I have a profound sense of appreciation and also empathy. Yeah. It's you know, thank goodness it's you know, what doesn't make you stronger? Cuz, you know, the other way. Anyway, Yeah. So, you know, I, I always like, was like, it didn't, it didn't strike me as something that, was out of the palette.

You know, if you're going to create something, why would you omit anything? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think it's free, right? Everything's fair game. Yeah, yeah. So what made you move on to plastic? Because plastic is pretty much your predominant material now, right? Yeah. Pretty much. It has been for about 20 years. Yeah. So what was the this like was there a catalyst.

What was the discovery of plastic. Well okay. So when I was in college I was still doing a lot of metal sculpture. And I loved it. I it was so amazing to you know, learn how to make kinetic sculptures and just doing all this stuff. And it was fantastic and I really enjoyed it. But then living in Brooklyn and not having a trust fund, I was like, oh my God, what?

I don't know, I can't afford a sculpture studio. She's like that. So and I had just, you know, arranged to get myself fired from that full time job so that I could collect unemployment, for six months. That was my like. Yeah. You know, that was my window was like, all right, I'm going to, you know, lower my overhead by building an extra bedroom in my loft.

So my rent goes down and I live in this tiny little room and and eat, wake, sleep, drink everything, art and hell and hopefully go to website and, you know, create a body of work and all that. I had this very, I think it was because with my, you know, first marriage, my husband was the artist.

So I spent the whole seven years that I was with him trying to help his supporting with his work and, you know, getting his work out there. And, so maybe it I always think things are like the tourniquet effect, you know, like I had waited so long. Yeah. And resisted for so long because I was I didn't know that I had anything to say, particularly.

And being so submersed in, like, the art world in New York City and going to the galleries and museums. Overwhelming. Yeah. Studying art history, visual art, Columbia, it was like it was it was so incredible and saturated. That I was like, oh, do I even have anything of value to contribute to this conversation? You know I wasn't confident that I did.

But I graduated sort of making paintings and works on paper and I have no plans to do anything sculptural. So I was like I just find this like a work, you know, whatever job I have to take a maintain my existence and I'll make paintings and works and paper and I have this really quiet, personal, private kind of meditative practice.

Makes it okay. Yeah. That worked out really well. No. It's so funny, isn't it? I mean, you just can't anticipate that what's going to happen next. And it was so surprising to me the way things, transpired. But, yeah. So I was doing that minding my own business, you know, and I wanted to have, like, some exhibition or something.

I needed, like, I have that six months and I gave myself to do this, and, you know, I had an open studio and I was living in Williamsburg at North Fifth and Kent at the time when it was very dangerous. They found like the bodies from the Brooklyn Strangler right outside my loft in the dumpster. Lovely. Yeah, yeah.

So it was not like posh the way it is now. Yeah. It's very different time here. And, you know, I was on the ground floor and there was all this trash outside all the time, and it was just sparkly, you know, and weird shapes. And it really related to the things I was doing in my paintings and works on paper in terms of formal relationships and qualities.

And I was getting ready for an exhibition because I open studio like immediately I had some feedback from other artists who came, and they were like, oh, you should do this. Oh, do you want to be in a group show with me? And oh that's great. Yes. It was really welcoming. Yeah. Based on having this little body of work.

And it started like it just resonated with some people right away. I have to say that I think even though the New York art world seems like it's a whole other realm, there is a very large subset of it is that's very welcoming. Yeah. And yeah, you know, friendships are built and it's it's it's a wonderful thing. Totally.

It's it's beautiful. It's like a really incredible ecosystem. Very diverse. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, you know, it can be really intimidating. There are all kinds of different fish in that sea. Some are actually sharks. You know, it's just bizarre octopi with hearts and brains, like, wow. Yeah, yeah. It's just really it's beautiful.

So dynamic and interesting. I love and that's the art world in New York, especially. But, anyway, so, so I had, you know, this exhibition I was getting ready for, and I was at a thrift store, Beacon's Closet, which I think is still there on seventh and Bedford or somewhere. Anyway, okay, I haven't been to that area in a while, but I ran into my sculpture professor from Columbia, and I was so excited to tell him that I quit my full time or, got myself fired intentionally from my full time job, and I was making a go at trying to the art full time.

And he was like, well, what are you making? And I was like, paintings and works on paper. And he was like, but you're a sculptor. I was like, I wanted to wring his neck. Yeah, no, don't tell me that. But of course it got in my head. I'm really, really quite susceptible to, you know, people. I respect what they say and think.

I'm very like, well, you're responding. Yeah. I'm like, oh, really? You know, that's I take it really seriously. And, while I was working on the paintings, were looking at these piles of trash outside. Then I just went outside and was like, look at you. You've got some interesting complex compound curves like this one. Beautiful quality.

That's just like this shape I was painting. You know, the next thing I knew was just monkeying around with it. Yeah. And it was all plastic. Yeah. And it wasn't. It was only because that was the material that. Right, made it the most, you know, in terms of not just honestly, it wasn't just the formal qualities, although that was the initial impulse was I liked that, kind of diaphanous, transparent quality, you know, the material and the way it was reflective.

And then I also was really drawn to the fact that people had this such an intimate relationship. But we don't know the chemical like most people have no idea. What is that. I don't know, you know. But you didn't know that then. No. But I was like this is a mysterious material. Yeah. And you know, I spent a lot of time looking at contemporary practices and art studios and studio visits and galleries and exhibitions.

Nobody was playing with it, really. There was no artwork to be found. You could see, like, Tom Friedman's work with toothpicks, but nothing with plastic bottles. I wonder, you know, I wonder if there's something I could do. You. So there you go. You started a revolution. You did! I don't know that I could take that credit. I think you can.

I think you were one of the first artists that I discovered after I was, I started working with plastic, and then I, you know, dug down this rabbit hole of looking for other artists who were working, and you were one of the first ones that I discovered. And you had already been doing it for many years by the time I discovered you.

So to me, discovering your work was very like eye opening, like, oh my God, look what can be done with this trash. Thank you. So very inspiring. I'm happy to help. Oh people have been there and oh the sleeping is good too. And then we get to do both. Yes. Me too. Wow. So were you at first like, how were you manipulating the plastic when you were first?

And it was hard plastic, I'm assuming like water bottles and things like that. Yeah. Like, you know, like your standard issue PET bottle, your Poland springs, your smartwater. And I'll just name the names. Yeah. You know, but, you know, it was it was that kind of thing. And, I would, you know, initially I was using hot glue, to get spray paint.

Oh. Because I did not think about my environmental footprint. Right. Even though I looked at the piles of garbage with disdain and contempt. Yeah. I was like, who just throws stuff everywhere, right? Yeah. That's horrible. Yeah. You know, I still I kind of identify with that, I still do. You still look at it to see. Yeah. Oh yeah.

I'm like, why would anybody throw their trash over here. No, there's a garbage can over there. It is so bizzarre. I mean I can't I can't understand how. I mean, I know a lot of it's probably a like broken window theory. Like, if you see one piece of garbage, you're like, oh, well, that's where the garbage goes. And, you know, it's a lot of different factors contributing.

Absolutely. You know, there's also just wind. Exactly. Yeah. It's flying off the garbage trucks and all of that. Or, you know, certain certain municipalities. You're not supposed to bag your recyclables. Right. So they just fly away. And if it topples over, it's going to find its way wherever it wants. Yeah. It's very liberated material that's just moves in the way it does.

Whatever it was.

Anyway, plastic. Yes. Yes. So were you just cutting it apart and gluing it together with hot glue at first. And were these suspended sculptures. Yeah. My first sculpture was called the Sentinel and it was this big yellow and white explosion. And it was all spray painted and hot glued and I actually exhibited it somewhere in Manhattan at a, you know, group show thing.

People really responded, got I couldn't believe it. Like people who were really very excited about it. And I was like, well, I like this process. You know, I like being able to sort of articulate what I'm trying to articulate in my paintings in three dimensions using this material. And then, of course, like any, you know, studious person who wants to know what and why and how, I began to research the material, and I was, you know, oh, no, you know, it was a horrible moment of, like, realization that there was this big David and Goliath problem.

Yeah. Nobody was paying attention. Yeah. So did that make you want to work more with it then? Yeah. But also with a lot of trepidation. I was like oh no this is not going to be an easy road you know. But now that I know I can't unknow. And it's sort of like okay you know say your dog if you have a dog and they need a surgery.

Yeah. And the surgery is thousands of dollars. Right. You can either be like oh well put it to sleep. Yeah. Or you could say I have to scrimp and save and take care of this creature. Yeah. And you responsible for it. Yeah. You'll get to these crossroads in your life over and over again. Oh, yeah. Where you get to decide if you're going to go where they can't be bifurcating, you know, you know, so you can decide.

Am I going to be someone that I'm at the end of my life? I look back on and I have no regrets, but I'm going to be someone that I look back on my life and think, oh, I should have, could have what has. Yeah, yeah. And I'm determined not to have those kinds of regrets. That's amazing. Yeah.

No, it's it's true, it's true. Well, so.

Do you ever think after now that you know all that. And I'm sure that since that first discovery of knowing all about the plastic and what it's made from and all of that, do you think about yourself working with the material and how much? Probably more than the average person you are ingesting these microplastics and things like that.

Yeah. Of course. I do take a lot of safety measures, such as respirators. I, you know, I have a fume extractor in the studio. I try really hard to avoid processes that include generating a lot of microplastics or microfibers, nano plastics especially. Yeah. But what I do, I try to capture them all. I keep them separated by color and chemical composition.

Of course. Yeah. Which is of course you do , well I have plans for like, all the remnants. I try to really, you know, that's borderline insane. I know, I know, but I can identify. Yeah, it's sort of, you know, I think it's also because, I mean, I think a big part of what's wrong in terms of how humans are behaving and interacting with each other and the planet, are these false senses of hierarchy?

Like we decide this is more valuable than that or you know, you don't. Yeah. Who is here? I guess. Yeah. No. who are we to decide what's more valuable we're, we're on the spinning ball in space where, you know, it's bonified miraculous that we get to do this. This living thing is awesome. And so to pass judgment or make assumptions or pretend you have some degree of certainty, it's just, to me, so arrogant, so arrogant inside of, well, the better to, you know, do the right thing.

Do the right thing. Yeah. So, you know, I think that's important. Yeah. The doing the kind thing. I think that's the, For me, I think that's what draws me to you, because you emanate kindness in every way that you speak about your work or anything. And I think that in general, it feels like we are lacking kindness in the world.

So I get drawn to people like you. Thank you. I'm so happy you're here. That mutual admiration society. Just cuz. I mean, I don't think most people would take it upon themselves to work with this material if they didn't have. It's sort of like doctors, you know? Yeah, I, I joke around, I call myself a plastic surgeon if I need, but, but I really, you know, there's something very like it's, it's almost like an extracting of a thorn or something from the foot of humanity or something, or washing our feet.

You know, we're watching Jesus's feet. You know, like, there's some there's some sort of, like, just loving, gentle, like, slowing down to clean this material that someone else has just decided had no value for whatever reason. Right. And it's it's a very, I don't know, it's very peaceful, you know, and there's, all kinds of energy and action taking place in the world that has very weird motivations or motivations that are just obtuse to to people who are operating on a, a level where they're just trying to do the most loving and appropriate thing, you know?

And so all you can do is remain steadfast. It's for me, it's also interesting because I know all the bad things about plastic, but yet I also love working with it. Oh, yeah. It's incredible. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's that's such a problem. Yeah, well, it is you. Whatever you want to do. That's why it's such a problem.

Yeah. It's like having this, you know, incredible art medium that it has plasticity built into it. Yeah. Right. That's what it is. And that's what you want in the sculpture material. And it's also lifelike because it's always changing. Yeah. Because chemists and the plastics industries are always concocting new chemical compositions and variations. Yeah. Like even within high density polyethylene, one Hdpe bottle is not the same as another Hdpe bottle.

Thus recycling it is a nightmare and impossible. Yeah yeah yeah yeah myth. But it's you know, the it never even like even if it is possible, it's only really down to like it shouldn't be referred to as recycling. No it's absurd but working with the material, if you can, you know, adapt your vision to it and take on the challenge of experimenting with something this complicated.

It's just that people are so confused about in general. Even still, you know, they think of it as disposable is bonkers. Yeah, it is bonkers. I think of it as a free art material. Yes, yes, it's displaced abundance. Yeah. Displaced abundance. I like that. Sounds like a good title for an exhibit. Thanks, I used it already. Oh, okay.

So, yeah, it's still, you know. Yeah, it is to know I love that. But it's true. And you know, every time I work, especially with groups, whether they're kids or adults, the most comments I get is like, oh my God, I never realized there was so much plastic out there. Yeah. So I'm like, all right, my job here is done.

Yeah, yeah, I got you to see just how much there is. And I got you to make art with it done. Bravo. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And that's why you start Little Engines. Yeah, I think so. And then, you know, frequently people who do a workshop with me and not everyone, but there will be a few people who dive deeper into it and they start, just really understanding because, like, you know, I don't want to.

You know, boggle their minds with all the horribleness of plastic. So I just give them, you know, the basics of it. And then we move on to the art making. But there will be a few in each class who will dig deeper, and then at some point later will contact me and and be like, now I know what you're talking about.

Yeah. So I think, yeah, we all are doing that. We're we're doing some good in the world. Right? 100%. And do it. I mean, I'm sure you've had days where you're feeling apathetic, you know, or like why bother is too hard. Nobody cares. This is like low hanging fruit on the like there's so many other issues in the world that are, you know, very pressing right now, that are life and death.

Yeah. You know, people don't have food, people don't have plumbing, people, you know, like, yeah, just disastrous, absolutely bad behavior affecting one another and stuff like that. But you do what you can and if you can, you must. Yeah. Instead of the monetary, you know, it's like, doing anything is better than doing nothing. Absolutely no. And I think, you know, in any sense, it's like a part of it.

It's like it is it's true. And that's one of the things I've heard from many, you know, gurus, advisors or whatever. It's like, you can't do it all. You can't fix the world from all these different directions. It's just not possible. So choose the one that is most meaningful to you that you can actually do something about. Yes.

Yeah. So can I fight hunger? Really? Only by donating some money here and there. But this I can actually be hands on and doing something and talking about. And not only are you doing something for the world, but by virtue of working with it and being creative, you're sort of communing with some sort of creative energy that is beneficial to you.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's that's part of my whole thing. Like, dude, it's so much fun. Yeah. It's amazing. It's really entertaining and satisfying. Joyous. There's a lot of joy in the process. Yeah. So you're keeping yourself healthy while you're at it. So it's like my husband always says, take care of number one so you don't step in.

Number two. That's a good one. That's perfect. Yeah. Because if I, if I do the work, you know, I'm okay. And I know that I'm not making things worse for others. Yeah. Hopefully benefiting others as well. And you know, I have so much I always feel like I have so much work to do. And I'm so far behind.

Yeah, it's terrible because I see all the things I could be doing. Yeah, but you can only do so much. That's right. That's something that's I find that hard at times and only at times like sometimes I'm totally zen about it, like, oh no, I can't do that. I'm only doing this. But there's other times and I'm like, oh my God, I want to do this and that and the other, and how can I squeeze it in?

And, you know, that happens for like several weeks. And then I'm like, oh my God, what have I done? Yeah, it's easy to get. I mean, I think that's also very common in terms of like art artists are sort of psychological makeup or our nature. And as humans, we tend to get, you know, we experienced the highs and the lows.

Yeah. With a little bit more, like receptive. That's better. Our strength I think so, yes. To be sensitive. And in a lot of, you know, professions sensitivity will kill you could be like your downfall. Yeah. But in any of the arts, you know, being sensitive, it's crucial. It is, you know, so. So it's like, kind of, I don't know, it's just what you get.

You can, like, have those highs and lows, those manic moments. It's like, but it's it's exhilarating. It's it is life to, you know, a degree that a lot of people sadly don't have access to. Yeah, yeah. No, I consider myself quite lucky. So grateful for that.

So I was reading your artist statement, which is where I took my intro from, and I thought this sentence was very interesting, and I was wondering if you could expand on it. So you say sequestering plastic pollution into art is meaningful. Although we sort of just talked about this, but I'm going to ask you to expand on this, sequestering plastic pollution into art is meaningful because this toxic material is continually entering our water food chain, bloodstreams and the air we breathe in art, the problematic longevity of plastic becomes an asset.

Yeah. So extrapolate on that. Yeah. Please. Well, okay, so I guess the issue, it's largely that people think of it as disposable and it's, it's really a value like a, it's a scarcity economics model. And that's causing problems, you know, because there's an abundance of it because it's a byproduct of the fossil fuel industry. You know, there's, you know, different people have different vested interests in continuing.

Yeah. To manufacture it. So, you know, I'm always thinking about, things at different scales, you know, and there's producer responsibility at the, in the studio as an artist. And then there's the producer responsibility at the corporate level where, you know, the the people making the trash that you're using for your art. So, I mean, the only way to model that behavior is to model behavior.

Yeah. So I try to practice, you know, thinking about it in terms of producer responsibility. And, you know, how can I express the longevity of this material other than working with it and putting it in settings where that can be tested, you know, and I don't always know. I mean, the first outdoor sculpture I made was in 2014, and it was, using an injection welder with low linear density polyethylene ish boxes, which is big for the fishing industry at near Nova Scotia in Saint John's in Canada, in New Brunswick and they are not able to recycle them on the continent.

So if one gets a crack or, you know, they just go to the landfill, they can't. There's nothing they can do there. They have foam on their interiors. It's like, oh, you know, there's so many materials. Yeah, like mixed materials. And it gets too tedious and you can't recycle it. So I created this piece for outdoor permanent exhibition.

I mean, some people are incredible. They're willing to, you know, pay an artist to do something so experimental. Nobody, you know has done that. I don't think prior to. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna try to make this thing. I made sculpture out of it. And I, you know, the same place hired me to go back and make another piece for us.

That's amazing. So, wait, it's doing like you said. It's injection welding. Yes. So that means you took the boxes, and then you welded them together with different with some kind of plastic. So injection. There's two types of welding processes that I use in my studio. Injection molding is the most. Well actually they're both similar. They both have parallels in the metal welding world.

But injection molding is almost like a MiG welder. I don't know if you're familiar. No metal welding. So in metal, I think there's, MiG welding is a type of welding where you have a spool of filler metal that has the same chemical composition of the two types of metal you're trying to weld together. By virtue of that, they'll have the same melting temperature.

And therefore you can, you know, create a weld with structural integrity where they all fuze together perfectly and cool that. Right. And then you have a really strong bond. Okay. So at the same principle applies with plastic okay. So the whether the injection welders ,I have two of them downstairs maybe three. I needed a bunch for a couple of projects at like fast pace.

And anyway, so it's the same kind of thing is this gun basically it looks like a giant hot glue gun, sort of. Okay, but it has a spool of filler material that passes through it that I have high density polyethylene. Polypropylene, I a linear density like a bunch of different things. Okay. So you can buy that kind of.

Yeah. All of that stuff. Or or down like, I don't know, repurpose. Okay. So you're not melting down the piece of plastic yourself to do that. So that's something you can purchase. Yes. Cool. And it's, it's very similar with like 3D printing. You can purchase upcycled or they call it for resale. I hate to use the word recycle.

It's it's misleading. It's just not even real. Anyway, so you can buy the stuff that's been transformed into film for film, either one for 3D printing, the body and, what's great about it is you can get in any color you want, you know, you can just match it, change it, or however you want to do it.

So that's been that's been a process I really enjoy. So, cut the pieces, the fish boxes up, clean them, cut them up. How did you figure out what kind of plastic the boxes were? And then send me a sample? Was kind of test so I could send it in, make sure that the filament then it was going to be welding with was the same chemical composition and the same color.

Gotcha. So I had a custom filament made. Wow. That's impressive. It's not expensive. It's none of. Of course not. It's plastic. Yeah. And here's the beauty of it. It's like all the tools I use for plastic welding are basically like woodworking tools. But there's less wear and tear on the tools because you're just cutting plastic, which is like butter compared to wood.

Wow. It's mind boggling to me that not every single college art school has plastic welding capabilities. Yeah, that's my that's my dream. That sounds like a good dream to me. So when you cut. Right. Sorry, I'm completely going off my original question. I probably did that. I'm I'm interested in the technical possibilities of it, so when I endeavor to drill a bottle cap with my Dremel tool, there's all sorts of little tiny plastic bits falling off of it, which is.

And I've done this now several times, and I go, oh, this is why I didn't want to do this. And I clean everything up and I stop, and I just use an exacto knife as possible to cut through my bottle caps. But even then you're going to get microplastics. But there's I guess there's just so much tinier that the little triangle like, you know, but when I'm drilling it, you know, I can see them flaking off.

So I get really alarmed and obviously I've done this several times now and I'm always like, oh yes, I can't, I don't want to do this. So are you when you're making when you're cutting your plastic into these wondrous shapes, are you doing it with a tool that leaves debris behind, or are you doing it with like a hot knife or something like that?

So that just kind of melts through. It's not like is this tip of the gardening shears really? They're amazing. I'll give you a pair. You know, they’re so good, I have so many. I it's they should really endorse me. Honestly, I've used so many of these snips. Anyway, it's a it's a eight inch snip that I use, but it has a serrated edge so it doesn't slip, plastic when you're cutting it.

And it also has a spring, so your hand is doing half the work. Okay? It opens for you. You just have to close it. Okay? It's it's much easier on your hands. Yeah. They're also, you know, super drip, like, strong titanium ones. They're, like, really built to last, which is wonderful. So I use them to cut. And there's no shavings when I'm cutting from those.

But there's the residue that I don't use for the sculptures. So then I try to use that for something else, you know, end up with, like, I call it scrapple. Yeah, scrapple. That's a good one. Yeah. I have bags and bags of it in my shipping container. Anyway, that’s a whole other thing, but, I do drill through the material. And when I'm doing that, I try to keep it in, like, a little trough.

I kind of try to wear face masks or something. Yeah, because it does get everywhere. Yeah, yeah. It's very, clingy. Yes. Especially when you're doing it on a day that is a very dry day. Low humidity day. Oh my god. Everywhere I look for everything. Yeah. It's really really hard to keep it contained. Yeah. So then but you do make your plastics softer because you extend them into these pieces don't you.

When I first started I did a lot of that was a heat gun. Okay. Which I don't like to do anymore just because it releases toxins. Exactly. You know when I'm welding, I have two, two processes. One is the injection molding and that heats it to the melting temperature and not above. You can adjust it for different chemical composition.

So if you're welding you know Http is 265. You're welding Abs, I don't know. I don't mess with abs because it's totally toxic okay. It melts it, you know. But it it's sort of like so HDPE you can melt at a certain temperature and it's not going to release the toxins. Yeah. Wow because that to me that's really scary.

Like people talk about melting fuzing plastic bags together with an iron. And I'm like, oh, I'm so I'm like, yeah, it's just I don't know. That's right. I haven't played with that. I'm not sure. I think it's a good idea to have to do that kind of research. Yeah. I mean it's usually those bags are sometimes they're Hdpe and sometimes they're LDPE.

Yeah. And you know, you just have to see what temperature iron's setting to. And if you keep it below 265 you should be fine. Okay. Everybody got that. Yeah.

And with PET, that was when I started using the heat. And you actually I mean, it's questionable. I would probably, if I weren't going to do a project that really needed that for some reason. I would use my fume extractor

 or you would do it outside, and wear a respirator and, you know, you can tell the difference between when it's really releasing the chemicals, it starts to bubble.

Yeah. You don't want that. Okay. If you're just heating it to like, stretch it, and then it's not as bad, but you can smell it, so it's not good. Okay. No, no, no, look, I try to avoid that, I but there's so many artists doing amazing things with like, little sodering tools. Such beautifu work. I'm just I have so much reverence and and appreciation to see what people come up with.

It makes me so happy. Yeah, yeah. So the sculptures that you hang outside or stand outside that I know you now do 3D printing on that and stuff like that. How do they do in the great outdoors? Well, we started talking about that with those boxes. Yeah, that one that was installed in 2014. And it's doing great. No deterioration when so dirty get power wash it every now and then.

Yeah birds tend to be like oh it's a pretty color I use. And use the bathroom. But yeah. So as far as you know, it depends on like how you handle it. I mean, I'm working with slightly thicker gage material for outdoor applications. It's not like a Tide bottle or something like that. I wouldn't use that for I don't personally, but just because it gets brittle and it starts to crack over time.

And I, I'm really, you know. There's archival integrity, right? Is a thing. I don't know if it's even appropriate to use as a term in 2025, especially with plastic. Yeah. With anything. Yeah. Because of what we're doing to our eco work, you know, really sorry, guys. A little dirty topic, but you know, yeah, I, I grew up or I went to Columbia as an art history and thinking about, you know, what, what this ecosystem of the art world is and what makes it work, and how to honor people that are willing to, you know, they're not artists themselves, but they have a love and appreciation and they care about the cultural landscape.

You know, I don't want to create something that's going to break. Yeah. And have them feel like they wasted their money or your investment. You know it's. Yeah. It's a beautiful gesture. Yeah. That's that's yeah. It's important to me. Yeah. I want to. Yeah. No, I think about it too. I, you know, I'm just starting to delve into outdoor installations, and I started them by making them from soft plastic, you know, plastic shopping bags and things like that.

And, you know, within two different installations. I learned very quickly that that plastic cannot be outdoors for very long. I made a mistake of making these birds out of plastic that I stitched together, and they hung them in trees and they were I want they want that being there for eight months. And when I went to pick that up, I was on my hands and knees collecting the flaked off plastic that fell into the grass.

It was awful. I was like, oh my God, I just created more trash from the trash. I was trying to keep them, you know? It was you know, I've been in similar situations where, you know, these years there's test, you know, doing everything you can to do the right thing. And inevitably we're humans. Yeah, yeah. Mistakes. It happens.

I mean, I believe in you there. Yeah I learn. Yeah. So now when I do soft plastic outdoor installations, I it like two, three months. Okay. Four months tops. Yeah. Like I'm going to take one down tomorrow. That's been just that that four months. And I, I saw it about two months ago and I was doing great. So I'm like okay, I got to take this down now, especially before the really cold weather sets in and really adds to right on the changing.

Yeah. Yeah for sure. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, there are things you can do. It's interesting. Certain plastics actually have UV stabilizers added to them. So. But how do you know which ones you have it. Right. Well I'm okay so I'm sweating. It's cool. But I don't have it in my toolbelt. It's a spectrometer that would allow me to identify the exact chemical composition.

Oh my gosh. Like ocean plastic. If it if it doesn't have a, you know, a tool like that exists. Yeah. Holy smokes. You know, it's like $3,000, that's all. Yeah. She does okay for my dog surgery for the dog comes first. Whatever you. But you know, I think she finally fell asleep. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. The exterior stuff.

It's really satisfying. I love doing work for outdoors. But it does open up a whole other set of, you know, potential caveats that you have to, you know, work with. And yeah, I figured you can also, you can also use like titanium white paint. It's an amazing UV stabilizer. It'll protect work from. And it stays on the plastic.

It depends on how you apply it in this type of plastic okay. So it's polyethylene terephthalate. It works great. You can apply I have like a recipe. That is how I color those ones. And it's, it adheres beautifully. You can give those a shower and that'll be fine. Oh wow. Yeah. But with Hdpe not so much.

It'll take off really quickly. So I haven't found a great way to color the HD, but it's you don't really need to. It comes in so many colors. That's just it. Yeah I very rarely use paint on any of my works. And people are always asking me is where is it? Did you paint this? No. Yeah. It's on them. Me too.

So the only reason I started, painting because I was working with the PD and it's most of it was clear. Which I love. But it's very hard for people to see. Yes. And to photograph. And also I wanted to use the same tools that are being used to seduce us into buying the junk to instead do something better.

Yeah.

And it's also using the same strategy that's used, you know, to get us to overconsume. Yeah. Things we don't need or want, really.

But manufacturing this desire and, you know, for making us to be, like, awesome glossy, shiny plastic packaging new. It's shiny. It's amazing. It's safe. But use that instead for it's just so brilliant. So you have like you're, you're using their marketing for your work in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Or at least that's how I think of it.

I feel that way. I was actually just listening to do you know who Ayana Elizabeth Johnson is. No. So she is an amazing person who wrote a book. What if we get it right and several other books, and she talks a lot about what we need to do in this world, for this planet, environmentally, that all the solutions are here.

All right, let's go. Okay, I know, I know, I was listening to her latest podcast because she has a podcast too. And on it, she had a marketing guy who was used to be, you know, doing marketing for like, shampoos and stuff like that. But now he's opened up his own company and I have to listen to it again to really understand what he does.

But it was just interesting to hear him talk about what marketing we can use to talk about plastic pollution and other pollution, and like then the word green is no longer the right word to use. You should be trying to use the word clean, like for clean energy and things like that. So it's just fascinating. Yeah, it's a whole different take.

Yeah. Yeah. Sounds very interesting. Yeah, yeah. You know there's so many amazing people doing amazing things. Yeah I think it is really healthy to focus on like we need them. Yes. Okay. I'm going to wrap this up by asking you one final question. That's oh actually no I'm sorry. Two questions like look at my notes. Oh wait. Okay.

Tell me what pulled you into creating Project Vortex? Oh, yes. Oh, gosh. Okay, so I think it was around that David Goliath realization moment. You know, I was I was ruminating about it and like, oh, this is going to be a really tough road. And I felt really apprehensive, but I knew I had to do it. And I was also starting to get a little bit of that.

Kind of fatigue of, you know, trying to do something and having it be so misunderstood. You know, a lot of people early on, especially confused, but they thought my work was just purely decorative and I was really struggling with that. Yeah, it was very frustrating to me. And I also, you know, I also felt like I can't be the only human who's experimenting with this material for art in, in earnest, you know, like in a serious, kind of serious clay deep dive kind of way.

I felt like I needed to see what other people were doing, and we needed to support each other in any way we could. And also, I felt like my experience to that point was so I mean, it was like a fairy tale honestly. I mean I went from rags not, not moneywise to rags to riches spiritually or emotionally or intellectually or something because my childhood was so completely bonkers, not appropriate.

And then suddenly and I was like, oh, could I ever really be an artist? And suddenly I am an artist, you know? And it's happening and things are opportunities and like things are popping up and amazing experiences and getting to travel and work with different ocean groups and, you know, river cleanup groups and like doing this. Yes. That was so satisfying that I, I really felt like we needed to have like a more of a unified voice and be able to kind of, I don't know, gain momentum and strength.

And I also wanted to show people because a lot of times you tell people you're working with plastic debris and they picture something that's very different from what you and I do. Yeah. And I wanted to sort of fight against that bias that people have. So, you know, there was a few two different angles, you know, and then I just started like discovering, you know, and it was so satisfying and exciting and, you know, I still have a tremendous amount of work to do on it, but just, you know, last year I had the first I got to curate the first major exhibition.

I'm very honored to have been a part of that. As you heard, that was such a fabulous exhibition, had such a great time putting it together. It was such a gift. But, you know, so, you know, it's it's it's something that really people who resonate, it resonates with people. It makes sense. And what it does is it broadens the cultural landscape.

It's inclusive by nature. And to me that is very exciting. So you know and also it's like environmentally better if you have a big collective and somebody reaches out to me, for example, and says, well I want you to come do this piece in Uganda. You know, I'm like, well, there's an artist working with plastic debris and you got have this really great.

What of you? Have him do it. But instead of using, a fossil fuel to have me come, right? You know, like, stuff like that. Yeah. You know, so that's been something I've tried to integrate into it. And then also just, you know, I don't know how much people have sold through Project Vortex. I don't think that's been the main thrust of it.

It's more about, you know, knowing everybody's out there doing this work and seeing examples of different work and being able to share that with educators and artists and people who care. That's exactly how I've used it. Like before you had me as part of that. I was like, oh my God, look at this person. Okay, next time this person, holy smokes, they're doing this.

Oh my God, that's what I don't know. I probably lost several days, you know, diving into all those things. Yeah. Which is wonderful. That's the plan. That was the goal. So and I think, you know, over time who knows it might shift. It might become more and more, useful. In terms of like big dreams to have it be more integrated into academic settings around the world.

Yeah. Maybe. Tell me that would be great. Okay. One final question. What do you think is an artist's role in the time that we're living in now, considering all that is going on in the world around us and more specifically, the climate catastrophe that we're living? Well, I mean, to me, a really good work of art is a reflection of society.

You know, what's happening with humanity. So it's truth, you know? So to ignore it or not integrate it when it's such an intense part of what's happening in the world right now would be a false. And I'm not interested in artifice. I'm interested in art. So I feel like it's absolutely our responsibility. I mean we have as artists, we have a practice of visualizing.

Right. So for us to not use our visionary or visualizing skills to do something, you know, that can help us envision a more habitable and sustainable future for all life on Earth would be a travesty. Reduced responsibilities would be good to me. Producer responsibility for artists. It's. Yeah, exactly. And you know, of course not everybody needs to or should or has to work with plastic garbage.

That's not what it's about. Yeah, there's plenty of other garbage to work with. Yeah. Or other topics that are timely. And it doesn't have to be hip you over the head political or hit you over the head climate or you know what I mean. There's there's no need for it to be obvious. Yeah. You know, as long as it's part of your thought process as an artist and you're not, you know, just tunnel vision and insular in your studio making it pretty stuff.

It's just. Yeah. And subtle can be quite powerful. Exactly. That's part of what's so exciting about this, wicked, monstrous book that I’m working on for ecoartspace. It's so connected to is more about this not just artist like, on Project Vortex. We're actually working with material. There's a couple that are documenting on Project Vortex, but they're also like isolating it and documenting it and, like, pulling it out of the waterways or you know what I mean?

Like, there's there are different approaches, but with wicked/mostrous with all kinds of approaches. And some of them have, you know, very there's very little plastic actually involved which I think is beautiful. Yeah. Oh well I have to I think that book is still a few months. Oh yeah. Yeah. We have a meeting on Wednesday. There's so much work.

Okay. Well I'll make sure to update everything when it comes out. Yeah I mean honestly I'm like cherry picking for new Project Vortex because once just do it all. But it's it's been really it's so exciting that work on that is fun. Yeah. Well thank you so much, Aurora, for this, for giving me your time, for being so open with all your answers.

This has been great. Thank you. I'm so happy we got to do this. Yes, yes. And, yes, I have a feeling that we might talk again. I have so many more questions. Yeah, I'm happy to talk to you. Anytime. I tell you, I like talking. Good.

That was such an amazing conversation. I really love Aurora's energy and generosity. She is an incredibly generous artist.

I hope you enjoyed this conversation as well. And everything we talked about is linked in the show notes. So go there to, follow any leads that you are interested in pursuing.

thank you so much for watching or listening to Salvage.

I really appreciate it, and I hope that you will take the time to click like and follow wherever you're following this podcast,

I would love to share it with as many people as possible, and that can only happen if you like, review and follow it and share it with everyone else. I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

This podcast was created, produced and edited by me, Natalya Khorover. Theme music by RC Guida. To find out more about me, go to art by natalya.com, to find out about my community go to Repurposer collective.com and to learn with me, check out all my offerings at EcoLoop Dot Art. Thank you for listening.