Struggle2Succcess Podcast
Welcome to the Struggle2Success Podcast.
I’m your host, Sterling Brown — and around here, we don’t hide from the hard stuff.
I didn’t launch this podcast from a polished place — I launched it while still healing. What started as my personal story has grown into something bigger: a space where we talk real about the struggles that shape us, the systems that confine us, and the current issues that weigh on our communities.
This isn’t just about surviving — it’s about transforming. From incarceration and fatherhood to mental health, relationships, reentry, and everything in between — this is where we get honest about the climb and what it takes to keep going.
So whether you’re tuning in from your car, your crib, or somewhere in between trying to figure it all out — you’re not alone. We’re in this together. Airing every other Saturday.
This is Struggle2Success — life is trials. Stay focused.
Struggle2Succcess Podcast
Carrie Kurtz: Hope Keepers On Supporting Returning Citizens
We would love to hear from you, send us a text!
Thank you for tuning into the Struggle2Success Podcast!
Become a loyal listener and subscribe to the podcast through Spotify, Apple, IHeart or other podcasting channels.
Connect with Us on the Web: s2spodcast.net and Instagram
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review. Your feedback helps us reach more listeners.
This episode was hosted by Sterling Brown
Some people think well, I don't have the time to be involved. But pointing out to them that you don't have the time not to be involved, if you have a criminal record, you have additional barriers. Reentry Synergy means doing together. So I've seen where doing together makes a greater impact.
Sterling:Hello, wonderful people. What you just heard were a few soundbites from my interview with Carrie Kurtz. Heard were a few soundbites from my interview with Carrie Kurtz. Carrie is the Director of Reentry Services at Reentry Synergy, where she leads the fight for real second chances for those returning home after incarceration. Before that, she served as the Director of Lancaster County Reentry Coalition, building a full continuum of care, guiding people from incarceration to stable housing, employment and community support. Her foundation in this work comes from over a decade at Water Street Mission, where she served as the director of residential and shelter services, counselor and program leader, helping some of the most vulnerable in her community regain dignity and hope. Helping some of the most vulnerable in her community regain dignity and hope. Carrie's leadership extends beyond her job title. She also serves on multiple panels, task force and advisory boards across Lancaster County. She lives by one powerful truth I will hold out hope until these individuals can hold out hope for themselves.
Sterling:In our conversation we dive into what it truly means to come home after prison, to face judgment, rejection and the uphill battle of rebuilding a life. We talk about Ban the Box to the Justice. Bridge Housing Program carries proof that change is possible when someone stands in your corner. Don't just listen. Share this episode. Post it. Someone stands in your corner. Don't just listen. Share this episode. Post it. Send it to someone who needs to hear it. This isn't just a conversation, it's the spark of change. Let's go.
Speaker 3:If you have ever been told by someone that you're not capable of attaining success, if you have made mistakes or lived in an underprivileged neighborhood, then this podcast is for you. You are now locked in to Struggle to Success. Struggle to Success aims to inspire individuals to navigate life's challenges with courage, fortitude and unwavering determination. So if you're in your car jogging or somewhere else trying to find the calm in the storm, then join Struggle to Success airing every other Saturday. Remember life is trials. Stay focused.
Sterling:Who was Carrie before Reentry Center?
Carrie Kurtz:Carrie worked with individuals who've been involved in the criminal legal system, as well as people experiencing homelessness, and many of them also involved in the criminal legal system. So people with mental health, substance use and I've just seen the cycle where people cycle in and out of that struggle without really being able to have the opportunity to make a move forward.
Sterling:You dedicated a great amount of work. I think it was the Water Street Mission.
Carrie Kurtz:Yes. Was that a part of going into reentry synergy? Was that how you evolved to where you are today? And shelter programs create them and you just see people that need hope. And what we saw is, when you bring the pieces together, like the other providers that have the services that one person can't offer, we're creating an opportunity for them, as well as social capital, because they're seeing that people believe in them and people are there to help them with to get to a different place. I always say, from striving to thriving, okay, and that's what? Yep, and that's why we need um to get people working together, and I saw it work there and my experience is that's the only way we really give people an opportunity to succeed and thrive is when we are committed to do the work together.
Sterling:Now, the individuals that would come through the doors of the Water Street Mission did a vast amount of them have recidivism issues, inclusive of homelessness, and mental illness.
Carrie Kurtz:Yes, yeah, it goes. I believe in individual kind of assessments. You would say so. Each person has an individual plan that meets their individual needs. You can't do a one-size-fits-all solution. So we partnered with providers for mental health, partnered with people who provide substance use services, definitely with the barriers for housing. We know that if you have a criminal record, you have additional barriers than those that have not have that. So we're working to address those. Working with probation and parole, working with street outreach. A lot of our work was with street outreach, because these are people that are not in shelter but continue to cycle through due to their mental health, due to their substance use.
Sterling:While incarcerated the ability to have medication but then when? They come out, it becomes an issue that they can't get that same medication.
Carrie Kurtz:That's exactly it, I always would say. People will stabilize while they're incarcerated, and if they do not leave for stable and safe housing, then they typically fall back into what they knew. I worked with a gentleman who was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, could be stable while in treatment or incarcerated, but then when he left and he didn't have stable housing, he would forget to go get his Vivitrol shot. I mean, you don't even know what day it is, so trying to manage meds, appointments and all that just doesn't happen. You're trying to survive, so medication is one of the least of your things. Plus, medication gets stolen on the street. You can have your medication and if you don't have it on you at all times, it'll likely disappear and then you can't get a refill.
Sterling:You mentioned the word stakeholders.
Carrie Kurtz:Who's at stake for the work that we're?
Sterling:doing so. There's a parallelism. This is the same thing. Yes.
Carrie Kurtz:Yeah, exactly, yep.
Sterling:When we speak about re-entry synergy, how do you envision the mission?
Carrie Kurtz:It's really about emphasizing and the importance of collaboration and coordination. A lot of people will say that we collaborate but we're not coordinating. And there's stakeholders involved, which is not just the individual and the community and everybody, but it's family members, it's parents, it's spouses, it's children. Everybody has a stake in this. So how do we coordinate with all the stakeholders to provide the best opportunity for success? So it's really working with agencies to build that collaboration and coordination, because we tend to be very much I'm going to use the word siloed in our own mission. Siloed in our own mission, but recognizing that our missions do intersect, and focusing and emphasizing that intersection and how each one of us is a part of a bigger goal that we all are actually aiming for.
Sterling:Can you give us some of the programs that? Intersect with reentry synergy to accomplish the goals.
Carrie Kurtz:Right. Well, I currently work with the PA Reentry Council, which is through the Attorney General's Office, so we have access to the Department of Health, the Department of Corrections, but also locally, we work with the Drug and Alcohol Commission, behavioral health providers, substance use providers, probation, parole, bail administration, the jail, the prisons. Families, like families are, really there's not a lot of services for families, to support families, but we really are trying to build that so that we have a holistic approach with all the stakeholders involved. So it's reaching out, it's making a connection, pointing out that, hey, we are really working together and we have a common cause that we're all aiming for. Some people think, well, I don't have the time to be involved. But pointing out to them that you don't have the time not to be involved because sometimes it takes a little extra effort at the beginning, but the payoff, as people say, the return on investment, is significant because we're, instead of trying to do everything, we're doing it together, collaboratively.
Sterling:Issues like housing and employment and mental health. How do they intersect during reentry and how does reentry synergy help individuals make that connection?
Carrie Kurtz:Housing is a key need. If you look at Maslow's hierarchy of need, that's not outdated, by the way. It's still very much effective, very much effective.
Carrie Kurtz:And if you do not have stable, safe housing, when you walk at the moment, you walk out that door as well as being able to maintain it, the risk to employment, the risk to your mental health, your substance use, even family reunification going and getting reincarcerated. So, taking care of your mental health, you need to know where you're going to sleep tonight, right? You need to know that you have a safe place to be To have employment. You need to know you can get a shower. You need to know that you can have a place to go to and eat and a safe place to be.
Carrie Kurtz:Some people may say it's okay. Well, if you're couch surfing or if you're in a shelter, which think you have to have, um, like employment that allows you to pay your bills, so you know, you ha you. You can't just take anything and sometimes people are forced to do that because you need the money to pay the rent but you don't have any place to say how do we get stable housing? So that was one of the things I've done. I'm actually chair of the PA Rancho Council Housing Subcommittee, working to educate them on fair housing, educate landlords, educate providers on fair housing, and our goal is to see that every person leaves incarceration with safe, stable housing and is able to maintain it, because you need to maintain it, so sometimes you need transitional housing when you leave transitional supportive housing Is this typically what they call halfway house.
Carrie Kurtz:No, it can be different.
Sterling:I really want to point that out there because I know in the justice system there is a component where individuals say it's a halfway house. But this is not.
Carrie Kurtz:No, this is not. This is because halfway houses typically don't provide the wraparound support. So we're saying that transitional housing. There's actually a program in Union County called Justice Bridge Housing. So it's providing safe, stable housing with the wraparound services that are individualized for that person. So it's continuing to help people stabilize because, just as a gentleman shared with me, the moment you walk out the door it's like walking from air conditioning to extreme heat and takes your breath away. You just can't think straight. So if you have safe, stable housing, you're able to not have to worry about where will I sleep? Where will I get something to eat? Will I be safe tonight?
Sterling:What policy changes or legal reforms would make the most difference for a returning citizen?
Carrie Kurtz:Well, we talk about ban the box with employment.
Sterling:Do you still see that? Do you see residual effects?
Carrie Kurtz:Oh, for sure, For sure, I mean, you can get away with it by just seeing that or hearing that someone has been involved in the criminal legal system and you could find someone you think is better. You know stuff is hidden. Let's be real. Right, you can have landlords that will intentionally not pick someone with a criminal record though they would never say it because then you would be in trouble, right, but the reality is, especially with landlords, you have a pocket of people to pull from that are ready to rent to you, right, or rent from you, and so you have the opportunity to pick from the cream of the crop, so to speak.
Carrie Kurtz:They're not recognizing that when you rent an individual that has a criminal record, this person has more support, more accountability, more drive to do something with their lives. I had one woman say to me we just need the opportunity because we're going to work harder. Statistics say that people with a criminal record that gain employment, they have a better. Women say to me we just need the opportunity because we're going to work harder. Statistics say that people with a criminal record that gain employment, they have a better attendance record, a better work record in history, because they know they have something to prove.
Sterling:I think James Arvery said that, to gratitude.
Carrie Kurtz:Yes, exactly, exactly. Yeah, you know that and you're so thankful for it. So you put effort and I think sometimes, when you hire someone or rent to someone, you don't know what you're getting right really, but when you rent or hire someone with a criminal record, you know what you're getting because definitely a different take on it it is.
Sterling:I didn't even think about it like that.
Carrie Kurtz:That is definitely a different spin on it and you know that the person has the support to make it.
Sterling:Share a story that you wish would have went better.
Carrie Kurtz:I think of and make it emotional. I think of an individual that I worked with at Water Street that was in and out of our shelter, in and out of the criminal legal system and homeless, and he overdosed and died and I still think about him. But you know, I have to say he knew I cared, because he could come in and sit across from me and we could have a conversation and I would listen. And so I have to tell myself that he knew that he had value, even though he was so caught up in the struggle of his addiction. But yes, I wish that had. I wish he had not overdosed, obviously.
Sterling:I think the fact that he kept trying. Yes, obviously I think the fact that he kept trying, yes, huge. I think that's what we and this is that struggle to success that even he had himself. Yes, I'm fighting, he was fighting, I want to continue to fight. Yes, and I'm going to keep coming back. Yes, and he tried.
Carrie Kurtz:Yes, he did, he did and he just. I adored him. He was funny, fine, he had a lot going for him, but the addiction just had him. But you're right, he would come back in and it would allow us opportunities to have conversation.
Sterling:And that's what your services are for.
Carrie Kurtz:Oh yeah, it's relational. I mean, that's really key. We don't do this work because we get excited or feel like there's a pat on the back. It's because we care about people and we see hope. Like I will tell people, I will hold on to hope until you can hold on to it yourself, because I'm going to hope for you, I'm going to believe for something better, because I know that there's something better. I hate, you know, if we get hung up sometimes on the word barriers and I say everything's an opportunity. It really is an opportunity for us to do something better. So, as we're building relationships, which can take a long time for people in the criminal legal system, they've been let down. You know, they've let people down. It's just a big cycle, but it takes a while to build relationship and trust.
Sterling:One of my big things. I'm keen on respect the process.
Carrie Kurtz:Yes, oh, yeah.
Sterling:Respect the process.
Carrie Kurtz:So easy to throw our hands in the air and say, ah, this isn't worth it. But I don't believe there's one person that's not worth fighting for and holding on to that hope.
Sterling:How do you ensure that formerly incarcerated individuals are not only heard, but empowered?
Carrie Kurtz:People with lived experience have a seat at the table. I like to have multiple seats at the table. I like to say that, so the more people with lived experience, the better. That sits around the table, because people with lived experience are the experts. Sits around the table because people with lived experience are the experts.
Carrie Kurtz:You know what worked, what didn't work, you know what you need, you know the struggles, you know the reality of it, and it's easy for people like I would always say I don't want to not interact with people that are living the experience, because I believe it's not lived, it's living, because the system still says you're living it, right, right, and that we need to build that opportunity for them to do that. I could be a head behind a desk making decisions right For people. They're impacting their lives right Without their voice. I think that's so wrong.
Carrie Kurtz:Part of the struggle that we've had, though, is people that are living the experience they don't trust, so, without trusting, sometimes they're hesitant to give their voice to it, so it takes some time to build that relationship where they will trust you to share. Some people are just right there and just will put it all out there, right, yeah, and some people they're not quite there yet, but that's okay. You continue to foster that relationship, build that relationship, let them see the consistency and the genuineness of what you're doing and little by little, it can come out. And that's what we need. We can't do this work and we should not do this work without people living the experience at the table.
Sterling:What does a trauma responsive re-entry system look like?
Carrie Kurtz:People can say well, I'm trauma, informed, care, trained, who cares? That's what I say, Because if you can't apply it to your work, it doesn't matter. It's just knowledge, because knowledge doesn't necessarily always change things right. You could know something and not do it. So and I've seen it I've seen people and organizations that are trauma trained but you don't see the responsiveness of it. So being responsive means that you recognize even the potential of someone in front of you having experienced trauma.
Carrie Kurtz:If you think about the people we work with in the criminal legal system, they say 90% and I would say might be higher have experienced trauma. The ACEs study with childhood abuse, childhood experiences, they usually score very, very high. So you have to think about the people you're called to care for and serve and recognize that they're coming with trauma. So how to respond to it is the typical what space okay, space language is key. We do a lot of work with statewide, with the groups I'm connected with, as well as when I was here locally. Language don't use sex offender okay. With the groups I'm connected with, as well as when I was here locally. Language Don't use sex offender okay. Say, someone who committed a sexual offense. Don't use felon, you know. So language is really key.
Sterling:The verbiage yeah, the gravity.
Carrie Kurtz:Yes.
Sterling:I see sticks and stones and they break my bones, but names will never hurt me.
Carrie Kurtz:That's not, yeah, it's not, but they do.
Sterling:And the verbiage alone needs to be overhauled Exactly. How we re-approach a person who's been through a traumatic experience.
Carrie Kurtz:Oh, exactly, exactly, and I think the language is really key. So, and also recognizing that behaviors like someone's behavior doesn't necessarily mean that they're misbehaving. It could be a response to a trauma trigger and responding See, they're acting out.
Carrie Kurtz:Yeah, they're acting out, yep. So then you know, maybe it took them back to a time when, like I just said this to someone the other day, she grew up in a very abusive home and some of the behavior started up again and I said is this triggering you? And she said yes, and so her responses are withdraw. Some other people's are to lash out, think, fight, flight, freeze, right, and so, depending on what you used to do to deal with it, I can give another example. I was a young woman Well, not young, she was probably my age.
Carrie Kurtz:I met her while she was incarcerated, right, and she was a pistol in there. Let me tell you she was. You know you could tell she was in survival mode in there, Like she had to be the class clown trying to get away with things that you know she shouldn't be, whatever. And you know you kind of get taken back and go what is she doing? Right, and you can get caught up in the behavior of it, right, but you have to step back and say why is she doing that? So, thinking about like being hyper vigilant in the situations that you're in and the behaviors are really survival.
Carrie Kurtz:I met with the same woman after she was released from incarceration and she was a completely different person. She was calm, she was hungry for help, she was receptive and not like defensive and trying to be funny, and so you could recognize the difference of survival while incarcerated and the behaviors of that, and then out and then really not having to do that anymore. So she could be more open, like that's just it. If people are not reacting to their trauma, they're more responsive to help, because you know when you're reacting to your trauma you're just you're doing behaviors you wouldn't probably normally do if it wasn't for the trigger.
Sterling:And that they have to keep up with this persona. Yes, yes, we have to break down those layers. And how do we do that if, maybe, they have just been released? Or you know how do we do that?
Carrie Kurtz:A big thing is fostering a safe environment Because, like for this woman, she was in a group of younger women, so here she's older than the majority of them, probably the age of maybe their mom, and she felt like she had something to prove and it was survival in there, Like choices. What do I need to do to survive this environment in this time in here? When they're out, they're just in a different environment and more receptive. So I think, fostering a safe environment, eye contact we were talking. Eye contact is huge. Listening, like really listening to what they want and what their concerns are. Don't go in with preconceived ideas of how I'm going to fix you right. Yeah, you need to go in and really listen because, as they say, you can't define success in just one sentence. Each of us has a different definition of it. But listening, what are your struggles, what do you want to work on?
Carrie Kurtz:I used to say when you, I used to coach some of my staff and say, when they leave, help them leave with at least one success, one thing that they've accomplished. So pointing out maybe, hey, you really are resilient, You've been able to survive this. How do we take this and apply it to where you're at. Tell me one thing you can do with resilience and people experiencing homelessness. You know like you've survived. You figured out how to eat and stuff like that. How do you take that creativity now and put it in a place that is productive? So coaching along, that, I think, gives them hope. I think you just have to instill hope in them.
Sterling:Do you think the move towards medication I think it's methadone and these type of programs that individuals are signing into once they come into intake are being used to their max capacity to help people, or is it just something that is going to fade away?
Carrie Kurtz:Mm-hmm. I used to be a skeptic of MAT, medically assisted treatment. I used to really be the person that said why would you substitute one for the other? But over time I've come to appreciate it and see the importance of it, because some people need that ability to wean off safely as well as have the opportunity maybe for some counseling on what's behind the using. For example, I remember years ago my son was in some counseling and they said the medication gives you a therapeutic level or the ability to receive therapy. So it's a therapeutic level of medication.
Carrie Kurtz:Mat, as I understand it, is not expected to be a lifelong solution. Right, you wean off of it, but sometimes you need that. I really believe some people need that opportunity to engage in that and to receive that. It's when you walk out the door is part of the problem. If it's not continued, then you have people that fall right back. Or if you don't have the right support, that's when people tend to overdose because they've been weaned off of it and they go out and try to use what they used before. Right, there's a high percentage of people that can overdose within the first 48 hours of release. So there's a lot with MAT, but I do think that it's beneficial for the right people and to have support. I again provide consulting and coaching, really trying to help stakeholders come together to serve individuals in an efficient and effective way and help them go from striving to thriving. And so you could reach me at my email, which is karikurtz60, which is C-A-R-R-I-E period, kurtz K-U-R-T-Z, the number 60, at gmailcom.
Sterling:Thank you so much, Carrie. Yeah, thank you. I'm sure this will not be the last time you come on our show.
Carrie Kurtz:Thank you, thank you, thank you, sterling.
Speaker 3:Thanks for checking out this episode of Struggle to Success. To connect with the show, you can email us at struggletosuccessp at gmailcom. You can email us at struggletosuccessp at gmailcom. Make sure you like and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. And remember to lock in right here every Saturday. Remember life is trials, Stay focused.
