Southern University: Hip-Hop & Politics
This podcast was born from Dr. Eugene Lee-Johnson's Hip-Hop & Black Politics class at Southern University. Throughout the semester, the students learn how White supremacy impacts each part of their lives and how fate and group consciousness work to influence Black political participation. In tandem, the students will speak about specific topics (the media, gendered racism, the history of American racism, etc.) from class and how they influence their lives. We hope you enjoy!
Southern University: Hip-Hop & Politics
Caricatures and Cash: When Being "Real Black" Pays the Bills (Erika Turner, Chandler Taylor, and Katelynn Harrison)
The distorted lens through which the media portrays Black American lives shapes not just how others see us, but tragically, how we sometimes see ourselves. This raw, unfiltered conversation between college students Erika, Katelynn, and Chandler dives deep into the harmful stereotypes that have become normalized in our entertainment landscape.
We dissect how reality TV consistently depicts Black women as aggressive and combative, with shows like "Baddies" and "Love & Hip Hop" profiting from conflict rather than complexity. The discussion reveals the painful contradiction of celebrating the artistry of actresses like Viola Davis and Angela Bassett while simultaneously consuming content that reinforces one-dimensional caricatures of Black womanhood.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when comparing how criminal narratives differ across racial lines. Why does a show like "Narcos" humanize its protagonist as a complex family man, while Black-centered stories rarely afford their characters such nuanced treatment? The participants unpack how even successful Black characters in media are often deliberately flawed in ways that reinforce negative stereotypes.
Perhaps most troubling is the realization that many of us have unconsciously accepted these portrayals as authentic representations of Blackness. When young Black people pursue education and broaden their experiences, they're often accused of being "whitewashed" – as if rejecting harmful stereotypes means betraying one's identity. Many face a painful internal struggle when trying to define themselves beyond media expectations.
The group concludes with hope, emphasizing that meaningful change starts at home and within our communities. By consciously creating environments where children can envision themselves beyond limiting narratives, we begin the essential work of reclaiming our stories and redefining how Black American life is portrayed.
Join us for this thought-provoking exploration of media influence, personal identity, and the power of choosing how we define ourselves rather than accepting definitions imposed upon us.
Erica Turner and I'm here with Kaitlyn. Harrison and Chandler Taylor and we're talking about how media covers black American lives. It's a real conversation and we were talking about mainly like reality tv shows and like black movies growing up and how we depicted and honestly I think that like, specifically black women are shown to be more aggressive and just like very I don't know hatred. It's just hatred towards each other. Like we knock each other down like shows, like baddies. What's other you was talking about so loving hip-hop. You have real housewives angry.
Speaker 2:That's all you need to be to be on television like even rappers like they.
Speaker 1:Like you see, rappers like Nicki Minaj. She's always getting into it with other female rappers. It's like we're always being compared and it's never like unity.
Speaker 3:But I think when you think about, like, how Black women are depicted in the media, I think you have to remember that they are also contributing to those realities Because they're playing a caricature at that point and they're allowing for that narrative to be depicted like. When you think about, like you say, oh, you think about all of the different reality examples that you gave. We also have some pretty good other examples of strong, powerful black women, like alfred whitaker or angela bassett and all the roles that she's played. You can also say, um, viola, davis, right, they always they give us these caricatures that are well developed, that have, uh, a history or you know whatever. But then you turn on the channel and it's fighting and cursing that's my baby, daddy, this and you cheated on me with that. That's how. That's how it is black women are seen as baby daddy.
Speaker 1:this and you cheated on me with that. That's how it is. Black women are seen as baby mamas, not just black women, black men we was talking about. What is it? The movie?
Speaker 2:Love and Baskin.
Speaker 1:That man was just seen as a cheater. He got successful. He forgot where he came from, I don't know. I didn't like that movie. I I think it was very negative.
Speaker 2:And then baby boy, he was just a, but it's like growing up when you think about those movies, like growing up as a child you didn't think that those movies was bad like oh my god, this is a movie. We sit down, we're watching it together, but you didn't like actually take a deeper look into it and be like this is not how we should be showcased like yeah so I like how you brought in the fact that like hey look, this is not how we should be showcased.
Speaker 3:But do you believe that we're groomed to feel like this is our image, this is who we are?
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna lie. Yes and yeah, yes and no. It's just a I don't yeah, I'm yeah because we're a lot of us. We just don't notice it like we don't notice it until we actually sit there and we actually think about it like, hey, we don't like these things.
Speaker 3:I don't think we don't notice it until we step outside of our environment yeah, and we see that, wait a minute, you don't have to be that way yeah and you go through this internal struggle of trying to define like am I real if I switch up or I change? You see, a lot with college graduates right, especially those that go to pwis because they were exposed to a different experience they come out of it and it's kind of almost as if they've forgotten who they were yeah because they're not subscribing to the way media portrays black women or black men, because they're living in an experience that was so different.
Speaker 3:So why do you think? Because they'll say that that's what you call whitewashed so why does our community? Why do they coin that phrase like whitewashed? Because it has to only be, if this is what I've always seen that black men cheat. Black men are aggressive, they're gangsters, they're thugs, they're all of these things.
Speaker 1:They sling drugs, they're violent but you know what I would say also? They also have good black movies, not all black like they had, like commentary movies, not too. Uh, I was about to say a movie, but that one shows like there'll be in hood and gangsters, but I think when you say black movies, because that's only one perspective of the media's coverage of black people.
Speaker 3:You got to think about the full picture because, movies is somebody wrote a character and that person showed up to play that character. So what about news outlets journalism. When you think about social media, because that's, that's a part of the media. When you see these people get onto these platforms, or they have these realities where they're expressing black life, what about that makes you think? Well, wait a minute. Why are we being depicted in this way? I mean I'm just, that's a, that's an honest question, because what happens? Is why?
Speaker 1:who knows like honestly you know, yeah, but like you would think people like break from things like that, like and but I it's just, it's still being taught if people, people, people are scared of change. So whenever people are scared of change, they stay where they're at. They're scared, that's, that's like a lot.
Speaker 3:Do you feel like people are afraid of change or do you feel like people are accustomed to their environment because they feel as if they're it's safe?
Speaker 1:that's the same thing, right no you sure? Because, like, because you can change in your environment.
Speaker 3:Like I can go paint my house but still stay in my house if it's in the hood. But I changed it up. But like, why do you feel? Like? It's still the same if I know that it's a problem and we had this conversation earlier about how, like other races, don't allow themselves to be depicted or seen in certain lights, right, um, and then you think about us and we play into it yeah and most of the time just because we feel like it's our only way out.
Speaker 3:Right there's. There's money associated or attached to rapping in this particular way. Right when you think about like common versus a young boy, common has an elevated rap that makes sense. It's more uplifting, it's more encouraging, it supports black women. And then who's more popular? Youngboy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Who sells more records? And then the thing that will make you even more frustrated about it is the fact that who are they selling the records to? We don't play music.
Speaker 1:You know what that's so true? Like we sex drugs, like just disrespect to women.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what sells for black people. We get in the booth and we be like, yeah, put all that in there. Yeah, put all of that in there. And who do you think is buying this? We don't buy music, guys, we don't. Let's be honest. Who?
Speaker 1:do you think is buying?
Speaker 3:this we don't buy music, guys, we don't. Let's be honest. And so then you got. You know, another race that's getting into their privileged lives, that's listening to this consumption and then, we're questioning why they speak to us the way they do or why they look at us the way they do Because we allow it.
Speaker 2:I feel like we allow it. We allow all these things.
Speaker 1:So do you feel like we allow it? We allow all these things. So do you feel like, if you that's?
Speaker 3:what I'm talking about, like sorry. So, caitlin, you're graduating senior and you are a senior erica, that's graduating next semester. If you were to see an incoming freshman right who say, for instance, the example that we had when we were just the young lady that was passing us right, the really high crop top, platinum, blonde hair, do you, what would you tell her?
Speaker 1:that's. That's a good question. I don't know I'd be. I'd be like, um, I don't know, like respect yourself so others can respect you. Okay, carry yourself with class, yeah. But my thing is like, what's wrong with the blonde hair?
Speaker 3:It's nothing wrong with the blonde hair. I'm just saying like I thought back to the end of Players Club, right?
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 3:Where this woman has been really taken through there, raped, exploited, all of those things, and she found herself back into the spot or the position that she first started and the new young girl comes up and she says look, what's the famous line. Have y'all seen that?
Speaker 1:I have, but like bits and pieces. I just remember whenever she shot that gun.
Speaker 3:Well, basically she tells her, like look, that's good, but that ain't going to be what it is.
Speaker 3:She just lived this experience right. It's like we're at a stage, we're at a place where we see these things and we can actually speak to them. But why do we choose to not do that? Because we know the media is going to exploit our lives. Yeah, they're going to perpetrate this reality that we are trying so desperately to get around and to remove ourselves from the fact that you signed up to come, you know, elevate yourself in a higher, you know, higher learning, but then to go back to communities where this is what it is and the only reasoning is because of how the media depicts us I was about to say we just allow it.
Speaker 2:So how do you feel like we can stop it, like I know that we've been saying, like we allow it yeah, I'm gonna say what is your? What would you say? Um, I would say I'm a inward outward person.
Speaker 3:So I believe that you first have to take assessment of yourself inward, and then you have to begin, you know, working on how you you approach it outwardly. I think that it has to be a cognizant effort, a cognizant effort, to try to change, to try to, you know, evolve. But if, if you don't want to do that, then you don't want to do that I.
Speaker 3:I mean I'm not saying that those persons. For me, I look at what's actually being consumed. We don't really consume television, as you know the people of older generations used to, right. So most of the time we're on social media and we're seeing these livelihoods and they're really attractive, right. You see the money, you see the glitz, you see the glam, but you don't realize that all of that stuff was obtained by putting down your own race.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or putting down your own community, or like feeding into what they believe.
Speaker 3:Like I've heard some people. They'll say, oh, this is the biggest drug dealer, but he's so nice, he gives back to the hood, but y'all are still in the hood. Think about it. Think of, like when you start talking about movies, right, they depict every other race as gangsters or mobs, or, and it's like it's praise. Like when you think about Al Pacione and Scarface, all of those things.
Speaker 1:It's like yes, yeah, it's because we ain't got none of that.
Speaker 3:It's true. We struggling, we at the bottom of the totem pole, we got to get over. We are the pawns in the game of chess. We're not sitting with the big dogs ever. When you think about Netflix. When they released, what was that drug cartel movie? When they released um, what was that drug cartel movie that they released? Narcos narcos, people were really like yes, like, yes, like he is that yeah no, oh my gosh, I did not like.
Speaker 3:No, I was like child people were motivated, like they were inspired by him because of how they depicted it. No, like they made him. They humanized him. Right, but what version of that do we have?
Speaker 1:um, you have uh now literally literally, we can do, that's no I mean, bmf ain't big as him, but bmf is something, but not and they didn't do bmf the way they did Narcos.
Speaker 3:No, but when you think about it, why, but that's a good point though.
Speaker 1:No, I'm saying like why.
Speaker 3:Like in our communities, we have people that do literally the same thing.
Speaker 2:Why do they never depict us?
Speaker 3:as having wealth, as having means, as being a family man Right, that was something that they. Throughout the entirety of Narcos. He was a family man. Right, that was something that they that they throughout the entirety of narcos.
Speaker 1:He was a family man that's crazy how people actually sat there and like I don't know I didn't do. Whenever I watched that, I was just like man, like this. This man is not good. That's how I saw it. Like he sat there, he now he did all of the things that he did right.
Speaker 3:They didn't just scapegoat over that right, but they also gave it the ability for it to be seen like okay, this is a full person and there was a reasonings as to why he did it right.
Speaker 1:Let me not say he's not a good man. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I mean.
Speaker 1:But like he In your opinion.
Speaker 3:In your opinion, if you're giving the opportunity, would you not?
Speaker 1:I mean like a lot of innocent people was killed, a lot of people, a lot of I don't know he was very ruthless. Yes, yeah, that's what I'm saying, but, um, I don't know, I I wouldn't sit there and put it as oh my gosh, I feel for this man. I don't know, it is what it is.
Speaker 3:I was like well, not feeling for him, but just how he's depicted, right like there's no blowback for what he went through or what he did. But when you think about, black man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it would have been a whole different story, a whole different story we wouldn't even.
Speaker 3:We didn't even get that. We got stars, bmf and we got young, got Young.
Speaker 1:Miami, but yeah, that's not Young.
Speaker 3:Miami shouldn't have act on that exactly they don't take it serious they don't like think about the intent behind releasing Narcos in comparison to the intent behind BMF bro, like two different things completely. Like Narcos was sat there and they really like they did a great they researched man, they developed that show, they had actors that could actually, you know, give that, because they wanted to give it life right what about power?
Speaker 1:no, no, I'm not saying like on the same level, but they had great actors, like that was some good but even in that you kind of lose sight of the, of the person, the ghost, as a character cause. He was a cheater he didn't respect his black wife because they still depicted him as a bad man.
Speaker 2:Now do you feel like? Like Gary, if we're talking about the scope of like.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm saying like power.
Speaker 1:you see him, he's an all-powerful man, but we like you sitting here disrespecting your wife.
Speaker 2:Cheating on her, which is on par.
Speaker 3:Yeah, think about it. The writers in the room had to say wait a minute, guys, this is a black man, you can't make him be good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't give him that. You see, that's where you go back to how. We just allow it. We allow it, so why do we allow it? We allow it, so why do we allow it? Why do you think the actors now again there are black women that elevate themselves, right?
Speaker 3:they that say look, I'm only paying playing roles that are strong, powerful black women. I don't want to be depicted, I don't want to show the hood. You know none of that. Why do you think we don't have more people within our community of influence, right? Whether it be social media, their talents that step up to the plate and say no, we're not going to allow you to depict us in this way.
Speaker 1:Like you said, because it sells, it sells.
Speaker 3:So have we sold ourselves.
Speaker 1:I feel like a lot of people have sold themselves.
Speaker 3:yes, I think it's a lot to be said, because when you think about it, you have to really consider the fact that people are watching. And I would even say this is why I don't like Jasmine Crockett, because not because what she's saying is wrong, but what are you actually getting accomplished?
Speaker 2:you're just speaking on the topic, you just being, I get it, you just being outlandish, like you're just complaining, like you're complaining without actually giving a solution, like I completely understand it you're.
Speaker 3:You ain't told us, you ain't did nothing to show that, okay, this was necessary. You're just doing this for what Clout? You're just doing this to be like all right, cool, I get it, you know. So that's why I think I don't necessarily like her, and because of how the media covers her. It's just really regressive for us as black people, because they're going to always paint us out as this.
Speaker 3:This is what they wanted us to do from jump so you feel like she's feeding into it yes, absolutely, and because so many people are like, oh my god, I like her for what they can't tell you one thing she's ever accomplished. So do you have any other examples of what you feel like could potentially, you know, help shape or complete or change the reality of the black media's coverage? I'm sorry, of the media's coverage of black American life.
Speaker 1:Like what would help elevate us.
Speaker 3:Or what can we do to change the realities. We went over talking about how a lot of it we play into, how a lot of how we're depicted in a lot of different scenarios how can we say hey look, we don't want this anymore?
Speaker 1:you know, I feel like it's hard to do that, though, because you have people who try and they get shut down you saw you saw um kamala harris try to become a president and like people didn't take her serious because she was a black woman and I mean, I mean that's a whole another rabbit hole.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but like I don't feel like you should use your blackness to rally the troops that's what you feel like she did yes, and if she didn't do it, like the people that supported her, it was, she's a black woman. She's a black woman. She's a black woman. Well, she's a black woman that lost to a white man. That's a rapist bankrupt one of the horrible people.
Speaker 3:So I don't think that you should use your blackness like that. I feel like if you were going to be this powerful black woman, you should have been that before that. We should have known you don't think she was. I don't think people knew that she was.
Speaker 2:Like a lot of people I know for a fact, a lot of people didn't know, like her history, like as for like going, you had to really like dig deep to understand, like to look and see, like what she, donald Trump and I think- people will say oh well, the media focused on her race.
Speaker 3:I think because she focused on her race. Because why does it matter, Right? If we're an inclusive society and we support all races, genders, whatever the cases may be Right, why do we even have to play into the fact that she's a black woman? Be right. Why do we even have to play into the fact that she's a black woman? The same way that they said the media was covering it. Every person that went out there to campaign for her kept saying she's a black woman, she's a black, she's the first woman black woman to do this.
Speaker 1:Black women are looked down on the most. Maybe that's why they kept on. She's a black woman, she's, she's taking.
Speaker 3:She's taking her chance but think, think about it. You just said how they depict us, how they show us in media, how they present us to the public. That's it. They don't give us anything else. Why would that be what you lead with? Because, to the people that are uneducated and uninformed, all they know is rowdy, aggressive fighting, hoochie, mama, hood, hood, all of those things. But if, why would you lead with?
Speaker 2:that. Like that doesn't make sense, like you're leading with the negativity. You shouldn't lead with the negativity.
Speaker 1:So saying a black woman is already negative. That is how we're depicted, though, because that's all that's.
Speaker 2:Showcased like black woman.
Speaker 3:That is how we're only depicted is. Oh, this is that. I don't understand why she would have lived with that, which I think is why she probably lost.
Speaker 2:Um.
Speaker 3:But what else do you think? So erica gave her thoughts, but what do you think would be your thoughts, caitlin, on how we could change the media's perception of black life?
Speaker 2:I feel like it's hard to like, it's hard to completely change it, because I feel like we're we're catered to see only certain things, like when it comes to black people, you're used to seeing like mostly negative, like negative things, negative thoughts, like aggressive black woman, a fatherless home. It's never like good depictions, but I can say like I feel like it starts within the home, like how we present ourselves to our children.
Speaker 2:I feel like how you talk to your children and how you raise your children is going to depict their personality and how they will react towards people, so I feel like it should start within the home.
Speaker 3:I would agree. I would say that you have to change the environment even when your circumstances don't align in that way. Right Like parks are open, your kids don't have to play with the crack pipes.
Speaker 2:You're right, which is not a reality anymore, but your kids don't.
Speaker 3:When you expose them to new environments and new surroundings, you give them an ability to have an open perspective to where they can say you give them an ability to have an open perspective to where they can say I don't want to be that person, I don't want to show up that way, because we all have, even if you think about like from the family we have when we go to family functions, we always got that cousin, we always got that uncle. But you've made a conscious choice to say look, I don't want to be that, I don't want to be that drunk, I want to drink. I don't want to be that drunk.
Speaker 1:I don't want to dream, I don't want to be that drunk.
Speaker 3:I agree he ain't never got no money. I don't want to be that. I think that too, and I think you also have to think about, like why, that is like where these things are coming from. I think a lot of it is the older generation's fault, because they've allowed these things to continue so breaking generational curses.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't say it's a generational curse, because I think that's personal, but a lot of it they allowed Right, even in the community, right. When you think about it from a church perspective, if everybody's saved, everybody's blessed, everybody knows the Bible, everybody loves God, is there a purpose for the church If I tell you that your journey is yours but I'm going to help you through it? Think about when you don't go to church for a while and you come back and you're like oh my God, I'm just so moved because I've been away for so long.
Speaker 2:I understand what you're saying because it's like you could go on your own journey, your own spiritual journey. If that happened, you wouldn't need a church.
Speaker 3:And a lot of these older people. They get older and they become subjective to the church, right, and then that's how they want to present or that's how they want to show up, and you push people away so that they go down to the path of what they only see and what the media only allows them to see. And so now you lose control. So when you say, like your parents, they're responsible for your rearing, I think your parents are responsible for providing you and putting you in an environment to where you can grow yeah, I agree like the seed don't say, look, you need to grow this tall and you need to have this much fruit on you and you need to have this many leaves.
Speaker 3:It just says, hey, look, if you nourish it, it's going to become what it becomes. So that's what I would say. But does anybody have any final thoughts?
Speaker 1:I think we're all good. I think I don't know. I'm just thinking about how I 100% agree all it all starts in the home, like I feel like that's that's where it can change and like, how you said, changing the environment I completely agree.
Speaker 2:Like I said, the home. I feel like the home plays a vital part, like a huge part of like life in general, like when it comes to kids, family, like, and then changing the environment, like that's the only way I feel like we could change the environment. Like home, that's where it starts, that's where you're growing up, that's where you learn how to eat, you know how to talk, you know how to walk and you, you learn other personality and views as you're growing up too. So in that environment, change your environment, you change your, you change your outlook so, yeah, I agree with all of that.
Speaker 3:I feel as if we went through a very productive conversation about the media's perception of Black American life, especially in the context of reality TV and movies and media coverage, and how we even look at our own selves, and so I think that it starts with with how you, you look inward and how you, you know, look at yourself and say you know what I want better for me and I don't want to subscribe to you know social norms or or the realities that that people have already created for me.
Speaker 1:You look past, society have already created for me, you look past society.
Speaker 3:You look past society, absolutely correct, and so that's, I think, that you get out of it. I think that that would be my final thought. This has been an amazing conversation with you, lovely ladies. Congratulations, caitlin, on your accomplishment. We look forward to you know you crossing the finishing line, erica, next semester. This has been a conversation about the media's coverage of black American life. My name is Chandler my name is Caitlin.
Speaker 1:My name is Erica Turner thank you for tuning in.
Speaker 3:Our cash apps will be down below.