Tidy Climbers: How Climbers Can Protect the Outdoors with Hannah Mitchell

Hannah, a journalist and climber, shares her journey into the world of climbing, her involvement with the Women's Climbing Symposium, and her passion for environmental stewardship through her initiative, Tidy Climbers. She discusses the importance of community in climbing, the challenges of littering in outdoor spaces, and the need for education and compassion in addressing these issues. 

Chapters:

00:00
Introduction

02:52
Women in Climbing: The Women's Climbing Symposium

05:48
Hannah's Climbing Journey: From Scouts to Trad

09:05
The Beauty of Trad Climbing in the Lake District

11:58
Tidy Climbers: A Litter Picking Initiative

14:55
The Impact of Tidy Climbers on the Community

17:48
Understanding Littering: Education and Compassion

21:09
Future Plans for Tidy Climbers

24:02
Closing Thoughts

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About your host:

Mel Reeve is an experienced writer, casual climber and enthusiast, bringing her knowledge and passion to the podcast. With a background in writing, copywriting and content creation, Mel is dedicated to sharing the diverse stories and perspectives that shape the climbing community.

Transcript

Welcome to the podcast, Hannah. Thank you so much for joining us today. Could you start off by just telling us a bit about yourself? 

My name is Hannah. I am a journalist. I also do bits of copywriting for sort of outdoorsy brands. I work in local radio a little bit and I joined the Women's Climbing Symposium team this year. So I'm actually helping to organize their 2025 event too, which is really exciting. I founded a litter picking initiative called Tidy Climbers. And among many, many other things, I am also a climber. 

We're going to talk about tidy climbers, which I'm very excited about, but I didn't know about the work you're doing with the Women's Symposium. 

Could you maybe tell us a bit more about that? So I joined the team this year, sort of just on kind of like an informal basis, just because with all the work that I was doing and kind of running tidy climbers and stuff like that, I wasn't quite sure exactly how much time I was going to have to be able to devote to it. But it is an event.

with an ethos that I feel really strongly about. And yeah, it was quite an honor to be asked if I'd up for joining the team. So yeah, so it's sort of a little bit of a trial run this year. So far, so good. It's been fantastic. Also Molly Thompson-Smith joined the team this year as a director too, which is really exciting. She's had so many amazing ideas and put forward so many interesting perspectives. Really looking forward to seeing where that goes. Awesome. And you mentioned the ethos there. Would you mind telling us a bit about what that is? It's a woman.

run event that focuses primarily on women in climbing, that's any women in climbing, but they also do events which are open to anybody. are just majority run by women coaches and obviously the organisation's side of things is women as well. The real idea behind it is just to get more women connected through climbing, inspired, developing in whatever area that may be, whether it's ambitions to be a

pro comp climber or whether it's just that they want to, you know, get better at doing dinos or whatever. It's just kind of like really encouraging women to, to feel more confident, feel more comfortable. The events, they have focus talks where they all cover issues sort of associated with climbing as well. So there'll be things about like mindset, fear of falling, things like that. There's yoga and stretching training programs, lots of other things that people talk about at the events as well. Kind of covers the whole spectrum of

 (02:24.174)

That sounds amazing. I feel like we're going to come back to the topic of women in climbing, but I would love to hear before we kind of follow that path a bit more about how you found the sport of climbing and what your history and relationship with it is. There's been a few sort of sessions as a child when I was in the Scouts. I actually really only kind of found climbing maybe six years ago now. So was working for YHA, so Youth Hostels.

And a lot of my friends that I was living with were really into climbing. So I tagged along with them a little bit. And then I kind of run away to Spain one winter and basically discovered sport climbing and limestone. And yeah, that was kind of it. I of fell in love from there. And then, I kind of feel like that's progressed a little bit. feel like my horizons in climbing have kind of...

broadened when I've been like forced out of my comfort zone in a way. So for example, I did a lot of sport climbing to begin with and then I had a breakup and I lost my main climbing partner at that point and this is the person who basically taught me to climb as well. And I always kind of wanted to climb trad but they didn't, they didn't, they weren't into trad, they just like sport climbing. So at that point I kind of went, well I'm going to do trad now. So then I basically had to...

I find new friends, I did find new climbing partners and actually like putting myself out there and being like, well, does anyone want to climb with me? I actually felt more uncomfortable than like any run out I've ever experienced has ever felt since. So yeah, nowadays I do quite a lot of trad and being in the lakes, there's lots of amazing mountain trad to be done here.

do a bit of Yorkshire sport, which I absolutely love. I've got a really lovely sort of crew that we quite regularly meet up and go do some Yorkshire sport climbing, do a little bit of winter, a little bit of alpine. And I feel like I'm just always trying to convince myself that I like bouldering, but I think I do like bouldering too. What was that transition like, the experience of discovering trad and what was it about trad that made you want to try it? I think just being based in the Lake District is just inescapable. it's just like,

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Historically, it's just of the best places of Mountain Trad. There's so much history to it. You only have to look around to see how much amazing rock there is and how many opportunities there are to get high up as well. I think that's one thing that I love about Mountain Trad is that you get yourself sat at a belay and you can just be

so far away from anyone. It can just be really still and really silent and you're just there in the mountains and I just think that's amazing. One of my favorite parts of mountain trail is just even when you're, I mean know climbing's a part of sport, but just getting that few minutes of just complete solitude even though there's someone attached to the other end of your rope. What is it about bouldering that you're not sure about or you're trying to convince yourself of? I think I've been actually doing a lot of introspection on this recently because I'm kind of

finally starting to enjoy it. I might be generalizing a bit here, but think maybe a few, quite a lot of the women that I've spoken to have found this, that when they've started climbing, unless they were doing an activity or a sport before whereby they were building a lot of upper body strength and that kind of thing, they found that they've come into the sport and they've had to learn to climb in other ways because they just don't naturally have that strength to begin with. And I think maybe for me,

that was part of it, that I just didn't really start off with loads and muscle kind of thing. And bouldering, think, can sometimes, it can sometimes feel like you need that. Maybe that's my own misinterpretation. I know everyone says like, it's all in the legs, but like at a certain point, you do have to be able to use your arms as well. Like also as a balance, but arm strength does help, definitely. Yeah, for sure. And then I think I've also got, my brother once referred to me as having plasticine ankles.

I've had so many ankle injuries over the years. I think also that is just like naturally quite like cautious about the idea of jumping off things. someone who does trad to say you're nervous of bouldering really puts into perspective. I think it's really quite scary. Like I'd rather be on a rope any day. In terms of like fear levels, think, bouldering scares me so much more. Yeah, I get that definitely. Like gradually learning to love it. And again,

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like being in the lakes, there are some amazing venues that are fairly easy to get to. So if you've just got a very short window of opportunity or a really short weather window, you don't have to hike all your trail gear halfway up a mountain just to do a route kind of thing. So I'm starting to come around to it. would say I'm probably primarily a boulder, but I actually think I like sport climbing more. It's just obviously easier to do bouldering, more relaxed because you don't need to have a partner. don't need to know your partner and stuff.

Yeah, no, I'm a reluctant boulder, I would say sometimes definitely. Yeah, that's exactly how I would describe myself, a reluctant boulder. Yeah, like I love it, but is it where I definitely want to be all the time? Maybe no. Do you have any favorite spots in the lakes you've talked about, kind of the places you enjoy going? What are the places that you like most? To honest, like this year, so I'm kind of in the north end of the lakes. So Borrowdale's kind of like my...

I've been there. It's lovely. Yeah. So that's kind of my like my nearest, so Chad area, I guess. Well, no, actually it's probably not. There's probably people tell me I'm wrong because there's stuff in Newton Valley as well. But, anyway, to go back to that, I've quite, think I've spent quite a lot of time in Borrowdale recently, which has been nice because it feels kind of close to home. it felt like if I go to Langdale, I'd have to drive kind of over an hour to get there. Whereas Borrowdale feels

it feels close, it feels familiar and it's just lovely. It's just one of the most beautiful valleys in the Lake District and I think maybe I'm a bit biased because it feels like home turf but it is just beautiful and it's relaxing and yeah, yeah I've really enjoyed, really enjoyed Boreal a lot this year. It just reminded me sitting here in my little craft and work hobble but my brother was getting rid of some guy but

and he had a really old FRCC Borodale book. Just because I was feeling quite inspired by Borodale at that point, I just had this idea that I was going to start deconstructing this guidebook and taking out pages that had crags that were familiar or that meant something to you in some way and then start laying them out in collages really. It's all very rough and just dumping stuff out of my brain onto paper, but it's just been really nice and of, yeah, channelling that sort of.

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love affair that I've been having with Borrowdale a little bit. been really... I love that. You'll have to send a picture of that so we can include it because that sounds so cool. I feel like now is going be a good time to talk about Tidy Climbers. So could you tell us about what Tidy Climbers is and what motivated you to start it? So I was going to say in a nutshell, but this isn't going to be a nutshell at all. It's be a big nutshell. That's fine. A really, really big one. Because I live in the lakes, I see a lot.

of like fly camping, littering, fire damage, things like that. And it used to really aggravate me and almost like enrage me to the point where I'd basically ruin my own day because I was just seething so much about whatever I'd come across or seen or whatever. And then I think over time, I just came to this realization that that was only affecting me and it wasn't actually

my anger wasn't benefiting the environment or wildlife or any of the communities around me just by me being angry, wasn't doing anything. And I started to think about how I could approach that differently. So yeah, so the idea with Tidy Climbers was to, I think probably off the back of something that I'd seen whilst out and about, was kind of like, right, I'm gonna set this little social media page and it's just gonna be...

To share with people the things that I found, which range from the predictable to the kind of a silly weird in terms of the type of listed that you find around the things people carry up mountains and then leave is really quite mind boggling sometimes. So I thought run with that. It's quite funny really. So why not put that spin on it for a start, but also just to try and encourage other people to do the same a little bit and then to give them bit of praise.

because I think that's like, it's massive. Like everyone likes a pat on the back for something when they've done something good. Like I feel like we don't do that enough, like praise people for their good deeds kind of thing. So there's that element too. And then also just to go about highlighting like, yeah, the sort of ridiculousness of stuff that was left behind, the ethical issues associated with it, but in kind of like a lighthearted way, if at all possible.

 (11:58.07)

What are some of those weird things I really need to know? What's the weirdest things you've found? mean, some of it's like, some of it's just camping equipment that you're just like, like, so I have a, I have a saucepan in my kitchen that I use regularly, which I carry down off a mountain. And it's like a, it's like a Russell Hobbs, like it was a really nice saucepan. And I was like, I feel like somebody's like,

parent or something is going to be your partner is going to be really miffed that that's disappeared from their kitchen cupboard and isn't coming back. Anyway, their loss is my gain because I now regularly use them. But that was quite weird. Found some pretty strange mystery objects. I think I once put a post on this Heidi Kleinridge page of this weird, like, I don't even know how to describe the shape of it. Kind of almost like a giant sort of, I don't know, I can't even like...

maybe like a sort of bullet shaped piece of white plastic. And I just was like, let's just play a game. Like who can guess what this is? And my vote was dinosaur egg, but I still don't know what it was to this day. But it was really weird. That's interesting. So you're like in the slate quarries, actually just this year, I found somebody's trousers. I always have so many questions when that happens. Like, did they have other trousers? Was that their only pair? Like, what did you wear?

to walk out. Yeah. What went wrong? What went wrong question is always why I approach these situations with caution as well. Yes. Good. Important. Yeah. Because I feel like even with the saucepan, I'm like, did something happen in the saucepan? It means you could never use it again psychologically, so you've just left it. Yeah. And it was a nice pair of trousers. They were like quite a, I think it was like Columbia or something. So was a nice pair of branded walking trousers. And say I'm like quite, you know, I do kind of pick things up.

cautiously in that instance. Did you the trousers? What did you do with the trousers? So I actually washed them and put them in the clothing bank because they were like... nice. They don't get to me but they were fine. Yeah. I once had somebody comment on a Facebook post that I put up to say that I was virtue signalling and I was like, if you knew the kinds of things that I took home in my van, some of the smells that I've had in my van carrying other people's rubbish home, not be putting up with that.

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for people to feel like that and to feel angry about environmental damage or the destruction of wildlife. think that's a very justifiable thing to feel angry about. So it's not so much about pushing that aside or suppressing that because I think it's really important to acknowledge that and sit with it or whatever. then, I don't know, swear under your breath and kind of curse them to a lifetime of warm beer or whatever.

But then like move on and do something positive with that, which is like picking it up and putting it in a bin or in the recycling where it needs to actually be. And then the other part to it is as well that I think it's about owning the fact that none of us are perfect. And if you spend enough time outside, there's a really good chance that at some point you're going to forget your little bit of finger tape that you pulled off at a boulder.

or you're going to lose a sweet wrapper out of your pocket and it's going to get caught in the wind and you're not going to be able to catch it ever again. And that will have happened for me too at some point as well. And I would like to think that the next climber that came along that found that didn't judge me too harshly and just kind of went, that's a shame, put it in their pocket and took it away. Because I think most of us really do care. That's a great point. I really like, first of all, what you said there about the idea that when we see these things, we feel angry.

but then using that in a positive way, I think is like just really impressive and a good reminder in so many different situations that rather than just being, I guess, needlessly frustrated, like thinking about what you can use that energy for that's positive. And then also, yeah, just treating the situation with more compassion, I think is a really great approach. I wonder, what do you think is the cause? Do you think a lot of the time it's ignorance or accidental? I'm just thinking, because I was out and about recently with some people who...

dropped their apple cores and I was like, you can't do that. That's literally, they didn't know that. They were like, it's an apple. What's the problem? So I know that for a lot of people, even those that are outdoors fairly regularly, they may just not know. But yeah, I'm just curious from someone who I guess is like on the front line of the litter picking, what do you think is contributing to it? so like the apple, like apple cores, orange peel, banana peel thing. That's like, it's quite an interesting one because whilst I completely

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agree when people say, it's not that bad and it absolutely is not the worst form of litter. It is just the case that it just doesn't belong there. It's not part of that ecosystem. apart from anything else, like I just walking yesterday, saw someone's orange peel like hanging in a tree. That's not where they grow in this country. I just kind of like thrown it and I was like, well, I mean, it's not.

It's not offensive compared to like some of the stuff you come across. But at the same time, I was just like, but it's not supposed to be there. It's like, you could have just put that in your pocket. You'd have a nice orangey smelling pocket when you go home. But yeah, I think like, I think the vast majority of the outdoor community really do care and they are conscious of their actions in terms of not dropping litter or being respectful of the outdoors. And like you were saying about the people that you were out with, like

You know, they probably wouldn't dream of dropping a crisp packet deliberately or whatever. It's just another interesting comparison to make there with like Apple cores and stuff is like the sort of outdoor toilet kind of etiquette thing where it was like, there was a time where certain sort of climbing areas that were really high traffic, like Spain's a really good example of this, could kind of cope with the small number of climbers that were going there.

and digging holes and burying their poo. But now with the numbers that are going there, it just absolutely can't. So something has to change. like the behavior has to change. It's a kind of littering that we're hesitant to talk about because it is a bit gross. What you do with toilet roll or poo is really important. And actually I should maybe add to my little apple core story there that I didn't know that until fairly recently myself. So I'm just going to acknowledge that as well, that it was a friend who told me

that you can't do that. So I think it is an important part of the cycle as well. mean, I'm the same, to be honest. Like I imagine it's probably only in the last, like, I don't know, two or three years that it's kind of really occurred to me that like even what we deem to be like organic litter is still litter. It's like eggshells as well. think like hard-boiled eggshells. Like there was a time when I'd have definitely just like chucked my eggshell somewhere.

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particularly if I was on rocky ground or whatever, it just breaks down into it. Like you can't even see it kind of thing. But now I would, I would always bag that up and take it away just because again, it's just not, it's not part of that ecosystem. And yeah, the, the, the poo, the poo thing. The poo question. The poo question. Yeah, this is quite a funny one actually, cause I am, I haven't really kind of spoken about this like on a public platform before.

just as an important thing because I think it is, guess, kind of similar to the apple core thing that we were saying. I didn't know until I kind of looked into it as I got into like hiking and climbing and stuff, like what the best thing to do was when you're in that situation. think the best place for guidance on that sort of thing that's really kind of kept up to date is like on the British Mountaineering Council website. I think there's something that you have to acknowledge there is that some people do have

problems with their digestive systems or whatever. People do have medical problems that mean that holding it till later in the day or going at a specific time of day, so it's before they go climbing or they go hiking or whatever, that's just really not possible for some people. And I think that's a really important part of that conversation to acknowledge because otherwise it makes it quite finger pointy, I guess. Which goes back to the point you were making earlier, doesn't it? That it's all about resolving the issue.

compassionately when we can. Like obviously people who are being, I guess, like belligerent literates, I don't know, whatever that might be. But yeah, treating people with compassion and doing the education and then also understanding that not every situation is the same. Yeah. And yeah, and like, like I say, and we're not all going to always be perfect and always going to be able to do best practice every single time, like for whatever reason.

something happens and you just can't do that. And yeah, it's kind of like being accepting and understanding of that rather than being divisive about it, I think that's important. Yeah, right. We're going to move on from the poo question, I feel. I feel we've covered that very thoroughly, which is good. What changes have you seen in the work that you do with Tidy Climbers following the Tidy Climbers account has made it in the front of my mind in a way that I hope it would be anyway, but it's definitely helped me to have it in the front of my mind that like...

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when I'm in these spaces, I need to be thinking about this and also not just thinking about like, what can I do to prevent myself contributing to litter, et cetera, but also how can I positively like take away things and stuff like that. So I'm just curious, have you seen a change and have you had kind of positive feedback from people? Yeah, I mean, it's really nice to hear people like yourself when they say stuff like that. Like it's kind of just gives me a bit of a reminder that

that really, it means a lot because it shows that it's kind of working in the way that it's supposed to. So yeah, from the start, it was just really awesome because as soon as I sort of set this page up, was like ding-a-ling, people were obviously engaging and following and kind of interested. And people started sending over pictures or tagging us. It's not groundbreaking starting a litter picking initiative. There are loads of groups that have been doing this for years. But I think what sparked

interest was that it kind of felt like a bit of a central platform for climbers. And I think also it had, well, I hope it has a bit of a community feel to it as well. So yeah, so straight away people were engaging, which was really nice and kind of like gave me bit of a like kick up a bum to like, right, carry on kind of thing. One thing that has really, really helped is the tidy bags. So we

had some really amazing help from the AlpKit Foundation. They basically organized for their repair team at the Kozik store to make us a load of reusable looty picking bags for Earth Day. So they're just like the really simple, lightweight drawstring bag and made from discarded tents. Some of them were tents that I'd pulled down off mountains and carried down with me. Some of them are like

things that have been faulty and that have been returned to the Outfit Store. there's been a tear down one panel, but the rest of the material is perfectly usable or whatever. And then we also had a load donated by a scout group who were just having a clear out of one of their store cupboards, which is amazing. So yeah, basically they're just really simple, rushing bag. They've got a carabiner loop so you can clip them on your rucksack so you don't have to put anything grotty like in me climbing gear. And yeah, basically they just took off.

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which was amazing. yeah, OutKit have continued making them for us and I just can't keep up with how many people want them, which is amazing. And I think one of the best bits of feedback that I had off the back of those was from an MCI who said that having the bag just makes them a bit more aware when they see litter. So they don't just kind of see it and go,

litter. They see it and go, now's my chance to take action. And just having that bag with them prompts that action, which I think is like, that's brilliant. I'm sure there's people who would argue that, well, you shouldn't be thinking like that anyway. mean, it would be nice if we were all perfect, but we're just not, are we? And that's okay. No, I think also it's nice to have something like that as well. Because again, it's

It kind of makes you feel like part of this kind of little community. actually another like quite fun bit of feedback that had was from someone who was at Scarfell Pike and they saw someone ahead of them who had a tidy bag clipped onto their rucksack. then, and they had, apparently they had this amazing moment of like camaraderie and mutual excitement over the fact that they both had tidy bags and they were tidy climbers. And like, that's exactly it. think it just that.

It should be uniting and fun and rewarding. It shouldn't just feel like a chore, which I know essentially it kind of is. but I think you can get a lot from doing that as well. Like it gives, it gives me the feel-good. So I think like, so the people get that thing. So yeah, the bags have definitely helped. And from a visibility point of view, I think they help as well because people see them, they see the logo and they're like, what's that? And then they're interested. So yeah.

Yeah, it's been really nice and it's been nice to connect with other organisations and other people, like some of the sort of environmental priming groups from universities and things like that that have messaged and said, like, we love this. Even like a group of lady pickers on Kalymnos that I've kind of connected with who've been like, it's so cool to see you doing this and that kind of thing. Yeah, it's nice to see.

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these little pockets of community that are really kind of keen to support each other as well. love that. I feel like that's definitely the vibe that I get following social media that it is like a community. It's like a collective effort. And it's not like you say, the kind of finger pointing or punitive approach. It's about being part of a community, which, know, as climbers, we are part of a big community and getting visibility of that and then using that for something really important. Yeah. And I think I always say this, I might end up repeating myself here, but

I think the way you communicate these things is just really important. So like the main thing with Tidy Climbers, and I think this is where I kind of like pull in my skills from my work, is that I try really hard to make sure that the language I use is like, sometimes it'll be jokey and it'll be like, look at what these quunkers left behind or whatever. But it's tame. It's not divisive. It's not an us and them thing. It's not like, you know, it's nothing to do with anybody's

skill level or experience level or anything like that or, you know, it's no kind of reflection on anyone as a person. I think it's just, you just have to be really careful. think, I think that's a great point. You've raised the idea that it's not like, oh, I'm an experienced climber and I'm telling you how to behave at the crag. It's something that we all do together. I think that's really important. Yeah. I think actually the littering, like anti-social behavior, which sounds like a really like stuffy term, but in the outdoors, I think a lot of that

a lot of the time that does come from that systemic lack of education in terms of the outdoors and outdoor etiquette. And that's an entire other podcast that someone far more qualified than me can talk about. But I do think that that is a really big part of it. And that is why the tone and the language is really important because you're not going to achieve anything by going up to somebody and being like, you idiot, you dropped that.

like they're not gonna... nobody is gonna respond well and nobody's gonna respond well to you using big words and patronizing them or taking the mick out of their spelling. None of those things are gonna prompt a good positive response but actually speaking to somebody like calmly and inclusively that has a much greater chance of making them go hmm yeah maybe I won't do that next time.

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I'm kind of picking up there on, I guess, an idea around inclusivity and climbing generally. Obviously, we're talking about litter picking specifically, but it feels like part of a bigger thing, perhaps, that when we're saying, it's not just about an experienced climber telling someone who's new how to behave in a negative way. Communication really helps. And not just what you're communicating, but like the delivery, I think, is massive. It's kind of like the difference between just a straight up.

like well done versus well done. It must have helped that you're really tall. And I think that kind of applies to how you challenge behaviors too. So yeah, like I said before, using big words, being patronizing, it's not going to shame someone into like not dropping their tip, but being a bit more open about that conversation could be. I think there's so many

amazing groups and organizations that are really doing the work within climbing to open up indoor and outdoor spaces and make them more welcoming. yeah, those people are way better placed to talk about that than I am. But I think from a community point of view, champion those people and get behind them. I think mutual support.

huge like I know that there have been times where I've kind of felt like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. I can't get attention from like the places that I want it from. But then you realize that you've actually got all these really important community groups and organizations who are there like cheering you on. it's really like, it gives you a real boost to know that. So yeah, I think I think other people

running sort of community groups or initiatives and things like that, like just get behind each other and support each other because climbing is like going in a really positive direction, but there's still a lot of work to do. And what do you have, if anything, planned for Tidy Climbers? there anything you're kind of hoping to do in future? Anything exciting coming up that you want to share? So yeah, Women's Climbing Symposium. I'll obviously have a little bit of a presence there. So last year was really nice. They had a sort of

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a section with tables where, so like Beater magazine had some magazines out, like some local artists like Anna Sharp, who does amazing climbing, illustration, mountains and things. She had a little bit there and like other, you know, organizations or like people who were promoting books, things like that. So had a little space at that table, which was lovely because I could just put out some posters and, and some stickers and things like that. And people kind of came along and had a chat, which was nice. So yeah, a little bit.

of presence at the Women's Climbing Symposium, which would be really nice because it's just a really kind of nice vibe and like a good, it's a really good opportunity just to talk to people about stuff. What I'd really like to do going forward is put some more focus on the sort of education side of things. So I mentioned before about the MCI, the instructor who said that having a bag made them more proactive in picking up rubbish. I'd love to work with like the Association of Mountaineering Instructors.

Amy to get more bags out to more instructors, I guess, because I think that's a really good place to start. So beginner climbers, you know, see instructors picking up rubbish and they know that that's the done thing. And then it just becomes habitual for everyone. Cause I think that's one of the main challenges is like making that become habitual. But yeah, I think.

It's the magic of the bag. My brain is like, but you want the cool one, don't you? And then, then you'll feel extra proud. Like I get it. It's really, it is magic. They are, they are. It is funny. Yeah. The magic of the bag. It really just, it somehow just makes it like stick with people, which is great. But yeah. and then yeah, hopefully some funding will materialize and I can put on some, some organized events. Like we did an Earth Day list to pick, which is quite a small, fairly small sort of gathering.

I quite like to have some more kind of like community focused events. I don't want to get into the territory of just doing like mega frag cleanups because I think part of the tidy climbers thing as well is actually climbing. So I think it would be nice for it to be more of a social kind of community feel of like, let's do the thing that we're trying to make habitual, which is we go out climbing and we do a little tidier at the same time. So let's just do that. Let's just do it like as a, as a

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community and make it a bit of a get together and yeah, kind of have some fun with it. So yeah, I love that. That's awesome. And if people want to find more from you, especially your writing and things like that, where can they go to do that? I'm a bit of a like post and ghost kind of a girl on socials, but I am there. So I'm Hannah Mitchell writes on Instagram and I do tend to kind of update that just as and when I do interesting stuff, I guess. I do have a website as well. I don't know if people even go on websites anymore.

Yeah, I have website again, it's HannahMitchellWrites.com. But more importantly, please go on Tidy Climbers, which is at Tidy Climbers on Instagram. And it also have a Facebook page, which is probably less frequently updated. And I am working on a website. So I registered Tidy Climbers as a community interest company earlier this year. So I do have a Tidy Climbers.org website, but at the moment there's not really anything on it. But I'll get there.

Well, I hope everyone feels very inspired to go out and as part of their climbing life, hiking life, outdoors life, wherever it might be, to do some litter picking because I know this conversation has definitely cemented in me that, I mean, it's something I like to do when can, but could definitely do more. So thank you so much for coming on.