The Real West Michigan
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The Real West Michigan
S1 | E15 Scott Hays on Wrestling Shoplifters Behavioral Assessments & Optimizing Talent in Business
What if you could transform your leadership style and revolutionize your team's productivity with just a few simple insights? Join us as we chat with Scott Hays from Synergistic Systems, who shares his remarkable journey from aspiring police officer to becoming an influential leader in behavioral testing for human resources. Scott's path, winding through private security, substitute teaching, and coaching high school wrestling, offers a treasure trove of lessons that have shaped his unique approach to leadership and employee engagement.
In this episode, we uncover the secrets behind improving company culture and employee retention through the innovative Predictive Index (PI). Scott delves into how understanding employees' behavioral profiles can help leaders tailor their management styles, leading to higher job satisfaction and lower turnover rates. We also explore the impact of the Great Resignation, emphasizing the shift from the golden rule of management to the more personalized platinum rule. Learn how these strategies can create a more cohesive, motivated, and high-performing team environment.
Get ready to demystify the Predictive Index assessment and its role in optimizing both company culture and individual performance. Scott breaks down the nuances of PI, comparing it to other assessments like DISC and Myers-Briggs, and highlights its unique free choice stimulus response approach. From understanding behavioral differences to leveraging AI for better hiring practices, this episode is packed with invaluable insights. Plus, hear heartwarming success stories from various industries and discover the joy of fostering professional connections through networking. This is an episode you won't want to miss!
Five Takeaways for Listeners:
- The Importance of Self-Awareness in Leadership:
- Scott emphasizes how understanding your own behavioral patterns and those of your team members can significantly enhance leadership effectiveness. Self-awareness is the foundation of empathetic and adaptive leadership.
- Hiring the Right Fit:
- The significance of using behavioral assessments in the hiring process to ensure the right fit for both the role and the company culture. This approach reduces turnover and increases employee satisfaction and productivity.
- Tailoring Management Styles:
- Adapting your management style to meet the needs of individual team members can lead to a more engaged and motivated workforce. The platinum rule—treat others as they need to be treated—is a game-changer in modern leadership.
- Creating a Culture of Openness and Trust:
- Sharing behavioral patterns within an organization fosters a culture o
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But as a young leader like I, would go into a store like guns, a blazing and like if somebody wasn't like follow me, I would get rid of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's not the best way to do it.
Speaker 2:Hey, welcome back. Today we have Scott Hayes with the I'm sorry, not behavioral analytics, but he is with Synergistic Systems and they do behavioral testing for human resources companies, individuals. Anyway, we're going to hear a little bit about his backstory and how they help people in West Michigan. Welcome, scott.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me, Alden. Yeah, of course this is cool. I've been here a couple of times, but I didn't realize that we were doing all this whole podcast thing in here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, new this year we're mostly, you know you've been here for networking and happy hours and that, so, yeah, glad to have you on the on the podcast. Thanks.
Speaker 1:Glad to be here.
Speaker 2:So tell us a little bit about a little bit about you first, or yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:Little bit about me, so you mentioned synergistic systems. That's the company I work with and it's been a journey to get there, so give you you you want the whole backstory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's do way back, Little Scott.
Speaker 1:Oh man. So I grew up in Lowell originally, so not too far from here Was never really sure what I wanted to do with life, right, you know, just growing up trying to figure things out and I thought I wanted to be a police officer. Okay, I thought that was, that was my calling, um, so I ended up going to grand rapids community college. Um, I took courses in um, basically getting my gen as to try to get into the academy. And when I got in there, uh, there was a bunch of like just people that I was like I don't really feel, like this is me, you know. I mean, okay, and I was already like two years in, so what do you do with that, right?
Speaker 1:So at the time I ended up finishing my associates at GRCC and then transferring all my credits into Grand Valley and changed my, my direction a little bit. Okay, so instead of going into the law enforcement piece, grand Valley at the time had what they call a private security portion of that. So it's still a criminal justice degree, but it was more like the private security sector. So I kind of went, was going into that and was like what am I going to do with that?
Speaker 1:I have no idea, right I don't even know a lot of sociology classes, a lot of um, a lot of like gen ads and stuff are still in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, and at the time I had enough college credits to be able to substitute teach okay so I was like 20 something years old and I was substitute teaching at a high school Um and one of my friends um was coaching high school wrestling, uh, over at Belding Um, and asked me one day like would I want to come help him be his assistant coach? And I was like heck, yeah, that sounds cool. So I was a 20 something year old kid with enough college courses to college credits to substitute teach and help coach high school wrestling.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of my job yeah, were you a wrestler too oh yeah, I mean, I wrestle obviously I didn't know anything about it, yeah no, so I um I ended up substitute teaching and helping him coach wrestling at belding awesome.
Speaker 2:One thing I'll say wrestlers like always the best I thought you're gonna say they're crazy.
Speaker 2:No, well, they're crazy too, but I found them to be the best uh, often the best teammates very hard-working, dedicated and like from an employee standpoint or somebody I want to work with, yeah, like, if I see wrestler, um, it's usually a big plus because the best football players on our team take that wrestlers and, um, some of the just the hardest working and it's just a hard. You got to take a beating, um, you got to work so hard to make weight and there's just so many things that go into it. That teaches you a lot about life, yeah because there's always somebody bigger and tougher yeah and you.
Speaker 1:you know it might not be your day, but you still got to go out there and compete, and sometimes not getting pinned is a win, you know. If you can save enough team points and helps the team, that's a. So that's a big deal. But so I was pretty good at wrestling over at Lowell, which is a big wrestling community. I think it's 10 or 11 state titles now in a row, so pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:And I actually, when I was was coaching, got more enjoyment out of the kids going out and wrestling and and watching them raise their hand, because when I would go out on the mat and win, I raised my hand, like that's cool. But when they were going out on the mat I was like I won you know, 20, 30 times a night. Yeah, and for me that's what was really cool about that whole coaching piece. So I thought, why don't I just become a teacher? Right? Two years in, and then a lot of the teachers, when I would talk to them, they were like man, I'm broke, uh, I don't know if I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life. And then I was like, well, shoot, if they're complaining about it. Like I don't know if I want to be a teacher anymore, right. So I stuck with my degree and I ended up getting my degree in criminal justice and business Okay, from Grand Valley. Sure, okay, right. So what do you do with that?
Speaker 2:No idea.
Speaker 1:So my first job out of college after I graduated was catching shoplifters. Okay for gap banana republic and old navy kind of fits. I guess yeah. So I used to go around playing clothes like catch people stealing you tackle them and I don't know. No, no you're not allowed to tackle people, and I think it's way different now than it was that that many years ago yeah uh, but but no, it was hands off.
Speaker 1:you know, now it's hey, come back, we need to talk about stuff, and that you took and, um, but that's what we, that's what that's what I did, and I was pretty good at it and thought that, thought that that was what I wanted to do. Um, but then I have been punched in the head more times than I can remember. I've been maced, I've been bit, I've even got stabbed with a screwdriver.
Speaker 2:From doing that job? Yeah, no way. Yeah, that's crazy. I imagine it's got to be tough having those conversations too. Or you work on your skills to try to deescalate, to avoid some of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't know, after I um got stabbed. So I went to stop him, like, yeah, get in front of him. And he like went to throw a haymaker at me. So I ducked and I pushed him and he went through a plate glass window and I was like, oh my gosh, that's crazy, right, wow. Well then he got up and he had a screwdriver in his pocket, in his back pocket, which is what they would use to like pop sensor tags off of the merchandise, and it hit me in the back like two or three times before I ended up wrestling him right back down to the ground, wow, and held his arm out until a customer like came and like pulled it from him and literally at that point I was like this guy's not getting away, like I will lose my job or whatever I have to do. Like this guy's not getting away, we're, he's going to jail yeah and cops came took care of him.
Speaker 1:But at that point I was like, well, I don't know if I want to do this forever either, right. So I had a district manager at the time from Old Navy um that basically said, you know, if you ever get sick of doing that uh loss prevention piece, you know, let me know, I'll make you a store manager. And I was like that sounds like something I could probably do, right, yeah, so after that happened I was like I'll take them up on it. So took them up on it. They made me an assistant store manager at first and did a really good job at it To the point where they promoted me to a store manager really quickly. And it was one of those things where it kind of was like the coaching piece, where now I was in charge of people again and I was coaching, motivating, training and developing people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And not having to like bounce around and, you know, help do all these different stores or whatever. But I was. It was like that 30 different wins, everybody raising their hand. You know what I mean. Like that made me feel good inside. So there was the something that I was missing from doing the loss prevention. So I was grateful for that um, and then, um, it became really good at it, made me a store manager at one location and then I got put into a higher volume location, um, and just continued to do a good job at that. And then, uh, dick's Sporting Goods made me an offer I couldn't refuse. So I went over to Dick's Sporting Goods for several years.
Speaker 1:Uh, over in the Rivertown location. Yeah, um, took it from an 11 million dollar building to 15 million dollar building, um, a bunch of managers, 100, 120 employees at times just depends uh, multi floor 90,000 square foot building, um. But that was kind of cool for me because it was a bunch of athletes. I mean, I had former NFL football players on my staff. Uh, college baseball players, um, this, some really cool people. Um, got to meet that. But the one thing that you realize when you're doing that stuff is it's very time consuming and as in, it's a grind. I mean, I was spending a lot of time there and one of the breaking points for me in retail was I missed my oldest son's first tee ball game.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And I was like man, something's gotta change, like I can't do this. My parents were every single one of my games. I have to be there. It's a really big deal to me. So something had to, something had to change and along each step of the way, every company that I had been with had used something different to measure like uh, people, uh dynamics, team dynamics, that sort of thing. Uh, with old navy we use like strength finders. Uh with with um dick's boarding goods we use disc for like an assessment, um, which were behavioral tools.
Speaker 1:But it wasn't until I found the predictive index that I was like there's no way. Like this thing is literally two questions, it takes about six minutes to do and it's pretty spooky accurate. So I, after I found that, I sent it to all of my former assistants and I was like this is pretty neat, like I wish I'd had this a lot sooner. So that's kind of I mean, that's my gateway into the whole doing what I'm doing now. Piece is I kind of fell into it and I reached out to one of the PI partners synergistic at six synergistic systems and I was like, hey, if you guys are ever looking for somebody, please let me know. I'd love to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to come help you.
Speaker 1:And they were like actually you're behaviorally wired to do what we need you to do, and I was like tell me more. And basically I mean, really what it boils down to is, you know, and for companies and all companies and organizations is it's a really big deal to make sure that you're putting somebody that's behaviorally wired to do the job to where they don't have to behave any differently than what comes natural to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they feel good doing it.
Speaker 1:And in my journey it's where I naturally felt comfortable was in that leadership type role where I'm coaching, motivating, training and developing people. Like that's where I feel best.
Speaker 2:Well, just getting to know you, that's. You know, over the last few years, that's kind of where I've, it's very obvious that that's the case as well. The last few years, that's kind of where I've, it's very obvious that that's the case as well. So, um, so what does that look like in terms of, um, what you offer like, how does your interaction work when you're helping these companies out, like what's kind of a lead-in um? You know, I, I obviously sent you, you came, and when we first met you know, know it's through a mutual friend you offered to do the testing with us. It was great, learned a lot, we had a conversation and then, you know, even recently, I shared, I connected you with a friend of mine who's in operations and you know he took the test and was very excited about things he learned about himself and which is sort of both exciting and sad at the same time, that you know he's almost, you know he's in his late 40s and you know, just kind of learning some of these things about himself.
Speaker 1:Yeah so.
Speaker 2:I could spend all day on this question. This is crazy.
Speaker 1:So how does it work as far as? Like, what companies use it for? So, as far as what most companies utilize Predictive Index for is, it's a more like a talent selection tool.
Speaker 1:Okay, so like finding the right person and knowing who that person is before I even bring them in the organization, because I want to make sure that they're behaviorally wired to do the job and do it for a long period of time, to where they feel good, and what happens? Then they stay with you and they stay longer, right so, and and they feel better when they go home. They're not as de-energized and we've all worked for companies that, like, we go home and we're like, oh man, and we've all worked for companies that like we go home and we're like, oh man, like this sucks, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And so for companies it's like I know that's expensive. I mean turnover is hugely expensive. You got the cost of, you know, retraining somebody because they didn't just weren't happy, it wasn't a good fit. We got to looking for somebody else in the hiring process again or sometimes, even worse, suffering for a year or two with somebody that's not very productive.
Speaker 1:Added workload to everybody else. Morale, I mean there's so many components to that whole turnover piece that it's a lot, so turnover is really expensive is what it really boils down to. So I tell people that not if, but when I save you for making one bad hiring decision, it pays for itself for a decade. Yeah, it's a big, it's a. It's a little bit of an investment up front, um, but knowing that you're bringing in the right people to do that role is a, is a big deal, right, um, but. But more importantly than that is where I'm really finding things. Since the great resignation Everybody remembers that recently right.
Speaker 1:And where I'm seeing companies pivot to now is, now that we have these people, how do we keep them? That's a really big deal, right, but if I know how you are behaviorally wired, I can, as a leader, I can give you what you need in order to be and feel successful to where you're like man, that scott guy, I really like him, like he's a great boss, and that's where we prescribe to what we call the platinum rule versus the golden rule when it comes to management. And everybody knows the golden rule right, do unto others as I'd want them to do unto me. Right, doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 1:We've kind of done it to ourselves, right, we? So we've given people trophies just for participating. Um, so we've done it to ourselves. We prescribed what we call the platinum rule, which is do unto others as they need, because you need something different from me, who needs something different from every other person? And again, this is where we tailor our approach to our people so we have a better cohesive environment where everybody works well together and there's good morale, employee engagement, just a better team team environment right makes sense for sure.
Speaker 2:You know we were recently, uh, speaking with brent case at the right place and here on the podcast and you know I didn't realize that 85% of what they do is working with local companies to employee retention, employee improvement and you know, process is just really trying to make them stronger while they're here and like it just seems like a common theme here recently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the one thing I do have to correct you on, though, is you keep calling it a test.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, that's my experience with it, so it's not the backend, you know you. I see the test part.
Speaker 1:So it's not really a test. Okay, because the test assumes that there's a right and a wrong and with predictive index there is no right or wrong. You just have more or less of a particular drive. So that's like the difference. So we always call it an assessment or a survey. It makes more sense. Yeah, um, so not a test I get it.
Speaker 1:Survey assessment yeah, yeah, um, but it's it's literally two questions. It's um 86 adjectives, so it's kind of like a word association and you're going to select the adjectives that you do because they resonate with you.
Speaker 1:And it really gives us a good indicator of who that person is. We call it a free choice stimulus response assessment. Versus what? Like DISC, myers-briggs, enneagram, almost all those other tools that are on the market are what we call a forced choice stimulus response assessment, and what I mean by that is those ask you a question and then they say A, b, c and D which one are you? Well, I might not be like any of them, but so it forces me to pick one Right. And what I've also found with those is if I'm going to work for a company that's like very competitive, dominant and driven, guess what I can answer those questions Right Competitive, dominant, down and driven.
Speaker 2:So with the predictive index we tend to get more of um, an accurate depiction of who somebody is, and it's because of that free choice part well, definitely, I've noticed that in the different tests I've taken, or assessments, however, um, where I'm looking at them and I'm a little bit analytical and I'm looking at how do they want me to answer or what is this going to say? So I'm looking a step or two ahead at what I think they're going to be looking at. Yeah, from that and I'm sure many other people do so, yeah, and that's why so, because it's so short and simple.
Speaker 1:Um, when people are done with it, they're like that was it? Like yeah, holy cow. So because of that we had, like I said, more of an accurate depiction of who somebody is, and then, you know, we use that to put them in the right spot in the organization so how does that?
Speaker 2:so what else is involved here? Because from uh, um, I mean from something that's two questions in in a, in a short response, what's the value outside of that um, that you guys bring to the company in terms of interpretation or application? You know, you know what? What else do you do aside from just the assessment?
Speaker 1:so there's three pieces to the solution. So the first one is the behavioral assessment. It takes about six minutes, five minutes, spooky accurate. The second piece is what we call a job assessment, and the job assessment is given to three to five people in the organization, so an incumbent, or an employee, if you will, that's just knocking it out of the park their manager, a manager once removed, hr and an executive over that functional area. Okay, and then what we do is we come to a consensus on what the behavioral requirements are for that role.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's kind of like the secret sauce. I hate using that word, but that's like that's a good way to put it Cause I'm like how do you fit it together?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's one thing to know, and then it's the other thing to like fit it in in the puzzle where it best fits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there would be a different job pattern, if you will, for every single role within an organization. And then I know somebody looks like that job pattern that we've created that they don't have to behave any differently than what comes natural to them to do that job, to where you're going to get all of their mental stamina so they feel good doing it and they'll do it for a long period of time. Yeah, if they're wired completely opposite, and I've seen this happen a lot, especially with people that have went to school for four years or six years and I got a degree and this is what I want to do. We'll use accounting as an example. So so I, you know, I got my accounting degree, um, and now I'm an accountant.
Speaker 1:And then they get in there and they're like this is awful, who would ever want to be an accountant? Um. So again, like that's what we try to identify before we bring somebody into the organization. Otherwise might hire this person because they interview really well and they sound like a perfect candidate, and what we found is that people are closest to perfection two times in their entire life On their resume, because they're fluffing it up, trying to make it look really good, and during the interview, because they're telling you everything they think you want to hear, right. So this takes the guesswork out of it, or and it just allows us to put some science and data behind making the hiring decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's the second piece of that job assessment, and then the third piece is what we call a cognitive assessment and that's a timed 12 minute assessment. It's a series of verbal, numerical and abstract reasoning questions and it measures G, general cognitive ability. Okay, so what that is is so think of. Think of. It's like a cousin of IQ. So think of IQ is like the size of a sponge.
Speaker 1:Okay, what general G, general cognitive ability is is how quick and fast that sponge absorbs okay so it's what it tells us is is that person going to be able to learn quick, be able to pick up the role, um, easily? And I don't know about you, but I've hired people and I'd bring them into the organization. They were a great interview and then six months later, nine months later, a year later, I'm like how in the heck do they not understand what they need to do? Like they've been here for this long now.
Speaker 1:Generally that's somebody with a lower cognitive score Doesn't mean they're not going to get there. It just takes them a little bit longer. So you need to be a little bit more patient with them. And then, on the flip side, I've also brought people in that at the end of the first week they were just like rock stars and I was always like man. I don't know what that person has, but like if I could bottle that up and sell it, I'd probably be a millionaire Right. And that's generally somebody with a higher cognitive score. It just means they hit the ground running, they learn at an accelerated rate and it's just easier for them to to figure things out.
Speaker 2:Have you found anything, any trends over the years? I guess I don't even know if that's something that would make sense, it's just something that came to mind. I've seen people that again, they might learn real quickly, they might plateau real quickly or they might take a little bit longer to learn, but then they kind of have it. Yes, like you know, they learn, learn quickly. Sometimes they forget quickly. If you will. Again, maybe that's not what the test measures, but I've seen people kind of, oh, they got it, but then you know, as they have to add to their play, you know, some of that stuff falls off. Where other people take a little longer, they go a little deeper yeah, and that's, and that's kind of how we are too right.
Speaker 1:So, like you know, there's certain roles that you don't need to be able to learn. That super accelerated race, so like bringing somebody in that's too high of a cognitive score um, they learn so quick and easy that they get bored because of it. So, while they might be 100 fits a role they might phase out because of that. Sure, sure. So yeah, you need to take that into consideration.
Speaker 2:You have three parts instead of one. Yeah, imagine, so interesting.
Speaker 1:That's I mean, that's that's honestly, that's our whole solution, that's what we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And for me it's just exciting helping companies and organizations build a like, a tighter team dynamic, and one of the the tools cool tools that we have in the system is what we call a one-on-one relationship guide, and it's where we can put two people up against each other, like I could put me and you in there, okay, and we could see where we're, where we have strengths together, where we have cautions and and also tips on how to preserve that relationship yeah, super interesting to me when we get into like where there's we're working for the same company, and which always gets me is like we're working for the same company.
Speaker 1:Why are we butting heads.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Usually what it is is that we're a miss on one or more of our drives.
Speaker 2:Okay, does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh for sure. So the easiest relationships that you're ever going to have are when people are behaviorally wired just like you. They just get you, they just understand you. It's just easier. I could throw you into a room of a hundred different people and you will naturally start to gravitate towards the people who are like you. I could see that. It just flows. It's just easy. You don't have to explain yourself, it just feels right. The most difficult relationships that you're ever going to have are when people are behaviorally wired opposite you oh, yeah, I mean, I've seen you can just tell when you start talking to people.
Speaker 2:You work in a room in a networking thing and it's just like, oh man, I'm moving over here because it's not comfortable. At the same time, I may have a friend that, yeah, they're, they're same, and I would traditionally call that personality. But it's much of you know, it's too narrow or it's not a good term in my, my view. I know a lot of people call them personality tests over the years, but I think they they do different things and so they might put you in a block of you know some of the traditional ones with the quadrants. But sure, um, you can definitely, especially once you're aware of it. Yeah, if you, if you've never been made of aware of this kind of thing, then it's easy to just wonder. But it's been so, um, helpful for me in my career to kind of understand some of these behavioral things and understand that, okay, I might have to mirror, match this person a little bit.
Speaker 2:Not my natural, yeah, but to get through here we're going to have to, like, speak a little bit more of their language, which isn't necessarily comfortable yeah but most of the time, if I'm given a choice, I'm going to end up wandering around and find somebody yeah, that I just connect with differently, yeah, or?
Speaker 1:similarly, it feels right yeah but those people that are different than you, that's where a synergy can can be right. But like you're saying, like if I don't know that about that person, when we don't know something about somebody, we tend to fill that void with negative space. I don't like them, they're different than me. What this does it allows us to see where we're strong together, where we're going to have cautions, where we're going to butt heads a little bit, and tips on how to preserve that relationship I think that's.
Speaker 2:I didn't even realize that existed. Um, it makes a ton of sense because I, you know, I see it in business partnerships and um no, I will not put your wife in there and do two of you like you see, where people are complimentary, um many cases where it's helpful. But to kind of break that down into different aspects which I'm not familiar with, um with with how the assessment works and now the the program. But um makes a ton of sense and it seems super valuable.
Speaker 1:So, again, we're working for the same company. Why are we butting heads? Right, put them in there, we sit them down, we go over it with them, and it's usually because we're a miss. We're just a little bit different. So here's how we get past that.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that I've noticed and what I've been working with all my clients on recently is you know how, like, when you bring somebody in like a brand new person, and then like six months, nine months, like a year down the road, then all of a sudden we start to get a little frustrated with each other. We bought ads a little bit. Yeah, because we're different, right? Sure, just by sitting that person down and doing that one on one relationship guide with that manager and that direct report during the onboarding process eliminates that rub that we would have had six months, nine months, a year down the road. Sure, and because I will do is I'll get to that cautions and be like, okay, here's where we're strong together, but here's where we're going to butt heads. And oh my gosh, if I ever make you feel this way, please let me know. That's not my intent, but we know this is going to happen.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, awesome. I think some of the books I've read over the past few years kind of hit on some of the same principles by ray dalio, like he speaks about such openness and they do baseball cards for people's personality and how they work. Like of these different assessment factors, um, even just communicating in general, just knowing that there's a place to butthead, even if you don't have the solution, like if you know that in advance it's a known now. So there's not the fear, there's not the you know as much friction in generally, it's just the communication.
Speaker 2:It's like to me it's the um, the root of almost all problems in society communication yeah, when it comes to marriage or business or any or actions of any kind, it seems like communication is, but we don't always know how it's, because we're all different yeah, and we as humans have a tendency to give what we need, okay.
Speaker 1:So if I need um to be able to talk my way through something, but you don't, you want to think your way through it. So here I am talking, talking my way to you, and you're like oh my gosh, can you just stop talking right now, like like this allows us a peek under who each of us are and why we have to, why we have those needs, why we behave that way so interesting to me.
Speaker 2:I mean, I love this stuff. I've read a lot of yeah um it. So how does this work?
Speaker 1:sorry, did I interrupt no, no, I was gonna, I was gonna say so. For me, like um, helping businesses, helping companies, um, again, it's like me, um going out on the wrestling mat and raising my hand versus you know, every time a client does this and rolls it out successfully to the organization, to where culture's better turnovers down, um, I mean just, things are rocking and rolling and we don't have to worry about that. People piece within the organization anymore, like that's like my 30 wins a night as a wrestling coach.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean so two things before I forget. We can hit them sure um, at whatever order.
Speaker 2:But one is this sounds like it's not much like what I learned with the right place, it's not at one time, hey, we bring a business down and kind of leave them a go. It's not like you're doing initial assessment necessarily. It sounds like this is an ongoing process that maybe you get revisited every now and then then as new people come on throughout the year, or um throughout, or maybe you like have follow-ups. And then the other one I forgot already yeah, so I'll touch base.
Speaker 1:I touch base quarterly, so we're a knowledge transfer company, so we'll teach the, the organization, everything they need to know about predictive index and basically sit on their bench and help them as they need help. But we would make sure that we do this for all candidates right, because we want to make sure we're getting the right people, but then also all employees, because we want to make sure we identify who each of us are, and the organizations that I've found that have the best cultures are the ones who share their PI patterns with each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Where the CEO is comfortable going to. You know the brand new employee that he just that we just onboarded and sharing his PI pattern with that new employee and he's like, hey, here's how I'm wired, this is how I am, and you know shares, does a little bit of a read back and shares their pattern with them. So that, that, to me, is pretty cool and it creates that culture of openness and, um, what you notice then is that the employee engagement it almost goes through the roof because of that.
Speaker 2:I could see that like it's a vulnerability and it's not. You know, the words I do think are always very important and not calling it a strength or a weakness, as much as a pattern, like a behavioral pattern, and now it's just. There's no, no negative connotation with it, it's just kind of how they're bad.
Speaker 2:No right or wrong, right, just have more or less of a drive yeah, and it might fit differently in a certain aspect versus another, and we all have our different. I'd still call it strengths and weaknesses, but it's probably not the best language.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's good to know that weakness because, like for myself, I'm not super detail-oriented you either.
Speaker 2:Probably not, I can be and I you either. Probably not, I can be, and I think deeply into details, yep, but I don't want to have to spend a lot of time on Not your highest and best use, right, right.
Speaker 1:So sometimes we can use that opportunity to leverage somebody else to help us with it, and creating self-awareness is really what we're after is making people a little bit more self-aware in and who they are and you know where they might have some opportunities that they could leverage.
Speaker 2:Maybe somebody else to help them with and I'm learning so much here, like imagining from a company of even just the interactions I have with, with different people here at the podcast, with production assistants and guests and that but to have a company of 20 to 50 people or more, being able to optimize how they all fit together, seems just crazy valuable to me. I don't know, I've been, you know, I came from the corporate world many years ago and some of them worked great and little pieces and departments, but oftentimes it was just very segregated, like a lot of groups. On a team you have certain people, whether they're what do you call them, clicks or whatever. They just, um, they don't tend to communicate with these other groups. Yeah, and sometimes that involves leadership. Um, so you got leadership and then you got different teams and they might be button heads. Yeah, to me it seems super valuable.
Speaker 1:I wish I would have had this a lot sooner in my career yeah like I thought I was pretty I'm I'm pretty good at reading people. Yeah, like I um just naturally wired that way to read people and get a good gut feeling of who they are. Um, but as a young leader like I would go into a store like guns, a blazing, and like if somebody wasn't like follow me, I would get rid of them yeah, and that's not the best way to do it right, so it took me several years to figure that out, and we all suffer a little bit from what we call the halo effect.
Speaker 1:You know what that is.
Speaker 2:I've heard of it and I'm trying to remember what it is, so, please, I like me.
Speaker 1:So guess what I do? I hired a bunch of me's right, Not always the best. So you need a diverse environment, diverse diversity of thought and people from all backgrounds to you know, pick up on the detail stuff that I had a hard time with, you know, and I could do it, but it would take me longer, it would drain me and yeah. So I wish I'd had a lot sooner. I would have done a few things differently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remembered, I think, what the other one was. So do you have a case like maybe a case study or a success example, um, or something maybe in the past few years that came up where that kind of stands out? Um, so I mean, I'm putting you on the spot here.
Speaker 1:so no, I have uh, I have, I have several clients um all across the country, okay, um, so I have, I have, I have tons of yeah, I'm not just western michigan, but so I'm all kind of all over the place A lot of the stuff we can do virtually now. Right, so I meet via Zoom or Teams or whatever. I'll tell you one of my favorite stories, so I have a couple of them. The first one is one of my clients down in Mississippi. They just recently I was talking to their um HR manager of the one of the plants down in Mississippi and in the first half of this year they just recorded in this so this is manufacturing um 200, some employees Um, and they just recorded a 7% turnover for the first half of the year, which industry average for like manufacturing is like 45% or something crazy like that.
Speaker 1:So for them to be that low is is pretty awesome. Like that to me is a big success story. Now what they do is that, because it's manufacturing and they have all these different positions throughout the plant, when somebody applies for a position at their organization, they might not necessarily put them in that position that they applied for. What they do is they sit that person down and they go hey, we know that you applied for this position, but we think that you're going to be and feel better doing this instead. So they're taking a look at how their, how their candidates are behaviorally wired and saying, hey, we think that you're going to be better suited in this type of a role. What do you think Intuitive to? Like a candidate or somebody wants to come work for your organization, if this company is really caring about who I am to the point where, like, they want to make sure I feel good doing the job, like that's a pretty big deal it's a big win.
Speaker 2:I I think that's one of the gaps in in hiring, like I've seen this in my kids even, like looking at jobs and they're just looking for something that sort of fits. They don't necessarily know how they're wired or what they want, but it's a job that they're willing to do, but it might not be the best fit for them and so to me, if a company does something like that, that would be a big green flag.
Speaker 1:I guess, if you will to kind of you know, direct me and definitely keep more interest, it'd be nice if there was a way to maybe integrate that even earlier in the process, um, during the hiring, because it seems like that's sort of a mess right now and maybe that's through individual I know assessments yeah um prior but yeah, and then the other thing that they do is they will, once that person is hired and they put them into that role, then they go over their behavioral pattern with them, so they do over their pi with them and they make sure that that feels good and like that's 100 them and yeah so, and then the hiring manager will go over like here's how I'm wired, that whole like one-on-one relationship guy I was telling about earlier, like that's a big deal and it creates a culture of openness and trust, like right out of the gate that's great.
Speaker 2:So who's your, who's your general, your primary client? Like, what kind of there's are you looking for?
Speaker 1:yeah, there's really not like a, an industry or a size or anything like that. I think everybody should be using predictive index, but no, but no. In all honesty, you know people that have a revolving door where they're like man, we just need to hire somebody and they're just hiring people with a pulse. That's the wrong way to hire. So I believe in hire slow, fire fast, and sometimes we do it backwards, where we hire fast and then take forever to get rid of them. So you know people that have that revolving door and they just having trouble finding the right person for whatever reason. It seems like manufacturing is kind of a slam dunk for me right now, and that's because, remember I said people are closest to perfection two times.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The resume and in the interview. Manufacturing we try to hire people because they're telling us what they think we want to hear and we bring them in, and then they turn out to be a flop. So what we do is, you know, put some science and data behind that and make sure that that person is going to be able to, you know, do that job over in the corner working on widgets or doing whatever by themselves for how many hours a day. Some people actually like doing that. Where there's certainty, you know, consistency and stability. From one day to the next, I can do it, um, because I need to be up and moving around and doing other things. But there's some people that that's all they want just coming in and do a good job and go home. So that's a good fit right now. I mean, I even have recruiting firms that are my clients and they're using it to make sure that they're hiring the right recruiter to come work for them.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So I'm kind of all over the place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, makes sense. I'm envisioning like eight companies, like especially large companies that hire because of that turnover, making it more of an open, open ended offer of employment if you will like, hey, we're looking, we're doing a I know it's not the right way a blue collar, a cow collar, white collar, cow collar, like a management, like we're looking for, like we're growing as a company, yeah you know, and sort of not necessarily expansion yeah, anybody.
Speaker 1:That's growing quick and fast. You know, let's put some science into hate data behind bringing in the right people so we get the right candidate out of the gate yeah, that's kind of where it's going.
Speaker 2:That makes sense.
Speaker 1:So rapid expansion, yeah yeah, trucking industry. Right now I feel like I'm. I've been in a couple of different trucking industries, from like selling semis to the logistics companies yeah, okay, yeah, I'm kind of all over the all over the board.
Speaker 2:Anything new coming on technology-wise? That's interesting that you guys are working on. Are there any trends you've seen?
Speaker 1:So one of the things, so obviously everybody's talking about AI, right Like.
Speaker 2:AI is everywhere. That's kind of where I was going, I just didn't let you hit it.
Speaker 1:One of the things that we've done is we've incorporated a little bit of that into what we call a job ad optimizer, so we have the ability now to take your job posting, like what you're going to put on Indeed or Monster or wherever right, and paste it into our system and it will tell you if you're going to using that verbiage that you've pasted in there, if that's going to attract the right candidates makes sense, or you're sort of reverse engineering that choice word, choice thing in a way yeah, um.
Speaker 1:So then what we do is then we know, tailor your job ad to be a little bit more tailored toward that person that you're looking for, so you find higher quality candidates right away sounds great I love it, man all of this stuff is kind of like, I don't know, it's sort of my one of my very big areas of interest, so yeah, it's cool just to know how people are wired, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like for me doing this now. I've been doing this for almost about six years now and I need to know how everybody's wired, like friends, family members. So I help out with the middle school wrestling team now go figure, my kids are in middle school now and I even had to send it to the other middle school wrestling coach because I had to know how he was wired so we could communicate better together and it just breaks down those barriers and it helps us understand each other in a whole different level.
Speaker 2:And your wife loves having these conversations with you, I bet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, apparently I'm loud.
Speaker 2:There's sarcasm there. Yeah, I mean, I don't even know your wife, we both home office.
Speaker 1:She's a photographer, I think you knew that, yeah, um, so she home offices and she's on the third floor and I'm in the basement in my, in my office, and she's like, oh my gosh, you need to stop. Sometimes it's like a little bit much, whatever, a little too excited maybe, yeah, yeah, but she could probably spit some of this back to you yeah, yeah, good, well, anything else you want to cover? Um, no, I mean it's been, it's been awesome like being here.
Speaker 2:This is cool I I've learned so much and I'm hoping that you know listeners, viewers do as well, because me, anybody, and, um, you know we hit a lot of business people here and that have watched and listened so far, and so to me it's like really valuable stuff yeah, and honestly, business is all about the people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we wouldn't have business if we didn't have the people. So how do we make work a little bit more enjoyable?
Speaker 2:yeah, let's figure out how we're all wired and appreciate each other for our you know similarities and our differences so if somebody wanted to reach out, whether for their company or just kind of as a curious individual, you know where can they find you and what's the best way.
Speaker 1:Probably the best way right now is LinkedIn. Okay, Search me on LinkedIn. Scott Hayes H-A-Y-S. No E in there.
Speaker 2:Important to say that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Two.
Speaker 1:Ts yeah, two Ts SynergisticSystems Systems. Hccom is our website and HC is for human capital.
Speaker 2:Okay, right, I was going to ask that earlier. I forgot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean, those are the best ways to get a hold of me. Really, what I like to do is, as people reach out to me, I'll send them the PI so that, one, I can understand them, but, two, that they can see what it does and the power and the the impact that it can have for self-awareness and for organizations.
Speaker 2:I appreciated that taste test and I know some other people that have as well, that you've sent it to yeah, and I think it gives. I think it's a great business tool for you and it's helping. It's like a dual purpose. It's like helping people at the same time, whether or not they work with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and ultimately for me, I just like helping people. Yeah, right, and.
Speaker 2:I've seen it over and over yeah.
Speaker 1:Like doing networking events, hosting events, whatever I can do to help people and I guess it's the connector of people is what I like to do. And, um, you know, doing events like that where I introduce people who don't necessarily know each other, but I know them and I'm like, oh, there's going to be good synergy here because I know how they're wired. So it's always that's fun for me watching people do that I can see that I have a similarly wired.
Speaker 2:I guess yeah, oh for sure we're close all right. Well, I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on and, uh, we'll see you guys next time.
