Bitcoin: Forager's Final Cut

In this episode, co-hosts Lynne and Israel interview Carlos and Ali, co-founders of Forager, a post-production company on a Bitcoin standard. They discuss their Bitcoin journey, the creative industry's economic challenges, their Bitcoin treasury strategy, industry response, and marketing Bitcoin creatively. Ali and Carlos also share their future plans for integrating Bitcoin into their business and offer advice for entrepreneurs and newcomers to Bitcoin.

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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Forager
06:44 The Journey to Bitcoin: Personal Experiences
13:55 Economic Challenges in the Creative Industry
17:28 Forager's Bitcoin Strategy and Announcement
22:48 Industry Response and Community Engagement
31:52 Creative Communication and Marketing Bitcoin
39:52 Future Plans for Forager and Bitcoin Integration
45:30 Advice for Entrepreneurs and Bitcoin Newcomers

References
x: @forager_tv @cmfe2510 @AliWebb07
IG: @forager.tv @carlosfloresfilms @aliwebb_forager
linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/forager-collective

https://www.buildwithbitcoin.xyz/
https://x.com/BuildwBitcoin
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❗ DISCLAIMER: This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any decisions consult a professional.

Transcript

Ali Webb: 0:00

Every time we looked at our balance sheet for Bitcoin, we'd go, this is the best thing we've ever done. It just grows and grows. Yeah, it's short term volatility, but, but if we're looking at it, compared to everything else, it's held up and performed so well. You know, the last thing we want to do is is get rid of it. But also, what can we do with it?

Israel Munoz: 0:29

How does a post production company made up of world class designers and artists take control of its financial future, and how does Bitcoin fuel its stability and growth? We discussed this in today's episode with forresure co founders Ali and Carlos. We hope you enjoy and as a reminder, this podcast is for educational purposes only. If you enjoy the content, please remember to like, follow or share as This all helps us greatly. Lynne and Israel are partners at Bazel air advisors, where they employ their strong network of Venture Capital Partners and startups to connect investors with unique opportunities within the Bitcoin innovation space. Alongside this, they support founders with their strategic growth and fundraising goals. Visit our website's advisory section to learn more. Welcome to build with Bitcoin. I'm co host irrele Munoz joined with co host Lynne Bairstow. Today we have the pleasure of welcoming Carlos and Ali from forger. Welcome guys. First of all, thanks so much for having us. Yeah, we're particularly excited we we came across the X announcement not too long ago. This was what you guys made it a week or two ago. Is that right? A little bit. Yep, and it read, it read something along the lines of New York City post production studio goes on a Bitcoin standard, and then you dig into forger, and you see big names that you guys have worked with on the creative side, HBO, Oscars, Super Bowls, lots of, Lots of very interesting things on the creative end, and it's a very different episode that we're doing today, because we normally focus more on Bitcoin specific technology. However, you guys, you guys decided to, as a small, private company, or not so small, but as a private company, to adopt a Bitcoin standard. And we, of course, want to get into all of those aspects today. But as a starting point, Carlos and Ali, maybe you can kick us off with with telling us a little bit about what your business does. What is this collective, this collective concept that forager works on, and a little bit of background on your industry? Sure, I'll start with this one.

Lynne Bairstow: 5:00

And that continues today. We're we've got a global presence, and we support artists in all disciplines of post production, and because our audience is probably a little less familiar with the creative side of it, so that you're dealing with video, TV, Audio, Music, things like this. So it's the whole realm of creative. So for advertisements and for promotional work, is that correct? We just, I just want to be kind of a little more clear about who would use your services and what some of the finished products would be. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for that, because,

Ali Webb: 5:36

who needs editing, color, music, visual effects, finishing so that the products can go out into the world. We do a lot of branded content, a lot of social commercial work, music videos, and we've done short narrative feature films. We have a couple films that we were involved with that will be at the Tribeca Film Festival this year. So it, it spans a bit of everything great.

Lynne Bairstow: 6:29

And then Israel mentioned that you had an announcement about going on a Bitcoin standard. And this, this related to having Bitcoin in your treasury, Bitcoin on your balance sheet, and using that, we'll get into that in a little in a little bit in more detail. But obviously both of you are Bitcoiners, and so we always like to start also with how you came to discover Bitcoin, and what kind of what it means to you. And the two of you, like, how did you make that decision? You know, we want to hear the backstory, but also about how you both decided to make Bitcoin a part of your agency. Yeah, I can take this one. It was back in March of 2020, in the middle of, you know, the pandemic shock that I personally was just looking for some stock tips online, on YouTube, and just kind of seeing, like, just, you know, you were hearing about the market crash and, like, how, like, they were preparing to issue, you know, like a lot of liquidity, like central banks. So I was just honestly thinking about, okay, maybe there's opportunity here to buy some stocks. And I stumbled upon

Carlos Flores: 7:38

this interview with Preston pitch on YouTube. First time I'd ever seen him, and I didn't know anything about him, but I remember the interviewer being like, Preston, you everyone knows you as the stock guy you're telling me you don't have any equities right now. And he was like, No. Like, why would I own equities when all these companies operate on a Fiat standard. And I didn't know what any of that meant, but it just made me intrigued. And so, you know, I just went down like a mini rabbit hole from there. And I think a couple days later, I bought my first Bitcoin just to try it, you know. And just I read, I had heard about the having, you know, it's about to happen, and this all sounds very techy cool. And, of course, I Ali and I are very good friends, and I give some unsolicited financial advice to Ali, being like, you should get one of these too, because it sounds like it's gonna go up so very speculative. Like, you know, like we just thought it was an opportunity there. And, you know, I'm sure you guys have, you know, like, once you hold this thing and you see it moving in all directions, and you just get curious, so you want to learn more. And I think it was June of 2020, where we were, like our logic was we own now some bitcoin personally. Should we just put to Should we just buy one on behalf of forager, and we do it, and then I think the following month we just get another one, because you have to have two once you have one. So it was really just that simple, you know, like, kind of logic is like, why not? This seems to be like, have, like, a good upside. And just, I believe it was August that Michael Saylor emerges in Bitcoin Twitter, and he announces that companies buying all these millions and putting all their reserves into Bitcoin. And that's when we were like, Okay, maybe this, there's something serious about this. And I think from that point, we just set up like $1 cost average, automatically for us. And thankfully, you know. Like, we had some reserves at forecourt, and we they were just sitting there in the bank, collecting almost like 0% so we were, we were like, we might as well just start buying some of this. But as again, nothing. There was no like, there was no more than that. Just kind of pure speculation in the beginning, and then, you know, the orange pilling comes gradually.

Lynne Bairstow: 10:23

I do want to interrupt you and point out that you were ahead of Michael Saylor in putting Bitcoin on the balance sheet. That's amazing. I had, I had thought that perhaps the two of you were Bitcoiners a while before you decided to put it in the company, but it was all at the same time. That's, that's great. That's really interesting. Yeah, I love

Israel Munoz: 10:45

the story. And you need to get on Preston's podcast, by the way. Oh, that

Carlos Flores: 10:49

would be the dream, of course. Now I know all about Preston, like, it's like, he's, he's, he's the goat. So of course. And

Israel Munoz: 10:58

Ali, by the way, out of curiosity, what was your initial reaction to Carlos' uh, unsolicited advice. I mean, what was, what was your initial, you know, journey into Bitcoin?

Ali Webb: 11:11

Carl said we're very good friends, and I I trust Carlos with my life. And I'd heard a little bit about Bitcoin, and like I said, we had reserves. We were looking to diversify. You know, what we had in savings at that point? And I thought, you know, why not? I remember when we were, however, we couldn't have been sitting next to each other. Yet I'd already moved we were so we were across each other's computer screens. He'd sent me a ledger, I think it was for my birthday or something. And I'm like, what is it? You can send me a whole Bitcoin themed birthday box, and I, at the time, was still very much like, naive, didn't know a whole lot about this, and you walked me through sending a Bitcoin. And so we did that transaction, I'm like, Well, that is incredible. I still am not entirely sure what I'm going to do with this now, but it really, you know, like, really made me interested. I remember when you pointed out that this company called micro strategy was fine this Bitcoin and and so I have these memories of when we first started, you know, diversifying foragers, you know, or like, our combined profits into something that could perform down the road for us in like car. So we didn't know what that meant, but we, we were pragmatic and that, you know, we're having a great couple of years, but, but every company, especially as one as new as ours, will eventually come to a point where the years aren't as great. We were going through a rocky patch, and maybe we could talk a little bit late, you know, in a bit about what we're facing right now and why this has become such an important tool for us. But we're we're just looking to to make sure our savings grew and would support us down the line, for whatever that meant, you know, growth or or sustaining our operations. So, I mean, in all honesty, Bitcoin was like a that was when it became like a hobby, a check. Every once in a while, I would sometimes, just like, remind myself where I put my ledger. You know, is that kind of like, Where is that thing? And then when we were, you know, in the last month, like looking at our investments and our assets, and every time we looked at our balance sheet for Bitcoin, we'd go, this is the best thing we've ever done. It just grows and grows. Yeah, it's short term volatility, but, but if we're looking at it compared to everything else, it's held up and performed so well. You know, the last thing we want to do is, is get rid of it. But also, what can we do with it? And then I guess we can, you know, talk about what we have done with it. But for me, my bitcoin journey has really just begun build

Israel Munoz: 14:06

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Lynne Bairstow: 14:22

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Israel Munoz: 14:55

they additionally also have US dollar cash deposits paid out in Bitcoin. And they have a yield product for that, which is an interesting alternative way of accumulating Bitcoin. Overall, fantastic suite of services if you're interested in onboarding and opening up an account at River use partner.river.com/build, with Bitcoin for personalized onboard something that I'd like to get a better understanding of the problem. I mean, what the creative industry is is perhaps going through right now. I mean, I think as a as a young company, it's naturally difficult to grow and to know how to manage your resources. And of course, Bitcoin will get into why that's such a powerful tool. But for the creatives industry, what do you guys observe Carlos and Ali as far as economic cycles? I mean, we're going through some very uncertain times. Inflation, depending on where you are in the world, is stronger, weaker than others. But in general, how do economic cycles affect your particular colleagues, and why? Why is this problem so relevant to other companies? Yeah,

Ali Webb: 16:09

so our industry is, is very susceptible to these economic cycles. I think forager is just a little over five years old, and we have, let's see, we've, we've seen COVID And, you know, the lockdowns where everything shut down completely, and so if film shoots aren't happening, we're not getting work. You know, the first part of the pandemic, we were sustained a little bit just by the work we'd already been doing. But then it dries up, because the work isn't that we rely on isn't being done. But then once COVID safety procedures have been put into place, and stimulus was being pumped into the economy to get businesses back to work, and, you know, grants were being provided to small businesses, then there's this expansion of work, and people are spending and comfortable using the money that's being provided to them to continue operating, which is great in the short term, right? And we had crazy couple years right after that, and then we see the effects of that stimulus, and then things start to contract again, and budgets are being cut. At the same time we're battling those market forces. AI comes bursting onto the scene, and now there is an expectation that a lot of the work that we do in our post production industry, with the editing and, you know, music and visual effects and can be done very quickly and very cheaply, which is a misunderstanding of what the AI tools can do or will do, or, you know, how they actually can benefit our industry. Because I'm not anti what's happening with AI, but there's a lot of misunderstanding on what it can do and where it's at. So the budgets are becoming smaller because of market forces. They're becoming smaller because there's a perception they should be smaller because Can't we do things faster now and and so we're trying to stay ahead of that. But it's, it's it's hard reconciling that period of expansion with now this very rapid period of contraction. And you know, it's speaking in dollars anyway, that's that's the issue that we've been facing in the last couple of years. So

Lynne Bairstow: 18:34

I guess maybe now would be a good time to talk a little bit. We've alluded to it in some of the comments that you made, Ali, but you know exactly what have you guys decided to do? What was the announcement that came out a couple weeks ago, and what is your your perspective or your strategy with the with Bitcoin for forager, yeah.

Carlos Flores: 18:52

So it honestly, everything kind of happened unexpectedly, but also very organically, because earlier this year, we were, like, Ali mentioned, you know, like, things were really slow. We were having a liquidity crunch, and we were just kind of thinking of our options, like, what can we do to, like, fix this? And, you know, we were thinking, is it, do we pull more money from the credit line, you know, even, but that's a little bit too aggressive the interest rates. Do we? Do we just lend money ourselves, you know, to the company, but you know, that's basically all the pressure on us as founders to sustain the whole thing, and there's no promise, really, that we're going to be able to turn this around. So we were just kind of brainstorming, and we knew we had the Bitcoin Treasury there sitting in very, in a very healthy level. So, but, of course, the big pointers, we don't want to sell the Bitcoin. But, you know, we just didn't know if that was like we were gonna, it was gonna come down to that. So we, we thought, of course, about borrowing against the. Bitcoin. And we know there are services that do that, it was honestly, like, a little bit intimidating still, because, you know, like, there are all the different it would be the first time we do it, and I know there are all these terms, sometimes also, like margin requirement and and just details. I don't think we were ready to take too much risk on so we just came up with the conclusion that, you know, we could set it all up ourselves, like we could borrow against, borrow against our Bitcoin, like as founders do, like a founders type of round, but structure it as a five year bond. And because we wanted it to work on our terms. So the five years I learned from sailor, you know, that buys him a lot of time, you know, to, like, be able to sustain a Bitcoin winter. And, you know, like, if you get bitcoin time, it eventually is going to come, come back. Then we didn't want any liquidation rules or no coupons until mature, so overpayment at maturity. So it was kind of like the ideal situation. And on top of that, we also said that 35% of the amount was going to go to our Bitcoin treasury, so that you know that Bitcoin Treasury just keeps growing no matter what. So in a way, it was kind of like we figured it out. Like, you know, this is protects the Treasury, protects us. It works in our terms. And once we did that, we were like, you know, wouldn't it be cool to just make all this public? Because I think it's a cool way to, like, kind of deal with this liquidity situation that I'm sure many companies in our industry are facing. And on top of that, we can just make it official that we have been, you know, growing the stressor for years now, and we now want to make it a priority that we are going to keep growing this treasury. And I feel like it just it was a strong message for many ways, and we figured that it could lead to other opportunities in the future. We have been thinking about opening a creative studio soon, and we were thinking, you know, like, we could structure loans just like this to maybe fund some of these new projects. And so we were just kind of thinking, this could be a core part of the of the company, and that's why we made it official, and we just kind of announced it.

Lynne Bairstow: 22:38

I love this story on so many levels, because Israel and I, when we've been talking to Bitcoin focused technology companies, almost all of them have Bitcoin in their treasury, or they take Bitcoin as as their primary payment source. So they're accumulating Bitcoin, and it's really shifted the whole way an early stage tech company even thinks about growing or raising funds. What we found is that they tend to, you know, raise earlier. They're more conservative about their cash, but they need less venture funding or or, you know, outside funding as they grow, because of the Bitcoin has has given them a little bit of a cushion. And it's really fascinating to me how you guys have turned, you know, it was kind of a speculative investment in 2019, 2020, you know, into this creative way of protecting yourself as founders, but also giving your business the ability to weather a challenging situation as you know. I think there's so much change going on right now in the creative space. I'm sure that it just really gives you that comfort level, and it also sets a model. I mean, I went through the comments of your on your Instagram, from a lot of your and the Twitter, and it feels like a lot of your clients or or other creatives watched you and had been thinking about it themselves. But I think you're really leaders in your industry and in your space for what you've done. So we'd love to hear some of the feedback you've gotten from, you know, from your clients, or from your artists that you work with, or from other people in the industry.

Ali Webb: 24:10

Yeah, I was just saying to Carlos before this because I had another call, as I've had, I'm having a lot of these follow up calls on this announcement, you know, to people who are curious about what this all means, and and we were actually a bit nervous maybe to make this public announcement, because we we were really confident in our strategy and what we had discovered and and that we have an amazing tool here that we were sitting on. Didn't even quite grasp it until recently, but at the same time, we we didn't have a full read on how our industry views this technology, and you know, how it can be used. Um, didn't expect any like, real backlash, but maybe more. Quote, more questions. Um. And we've had questions, but a lot of just really positive feedback, or people going, Oh my gosh. I've been into this since 2014 and I do have a little bit of this and that. And, you know, I want to talk to you more about, yeah, how you see this funding creative projects in the future, etc. So actually, that the response has been amazing, and it's like, like, I don't know, everyone feels more comfortable now talking about the fact that they have been interested and they see a value in this speculative asset that is maybe not just speculative anymore. So yeah, the response has been great, and it has introduced us to people also now around the world who are very into this and looking for creative partners. So it has been just like it's open another door, it's open another door to another audience, and that's been really valuable, just in the short term right now, for interesting conversations. Yeah,

Israel Munoz: 25:57

you know, I love what you mentioned earlier, Carlos, this Bitcoin allowed you to to address this liquidity situation for your business on your own terms, right? And, and I think, I think you're spot on, on, you know, getting yourselves into things that you weren't comfortable with or didn't understand. I mean, it, it sounds like you guys have thought through this in a very smart way. So, I mean, congratulations, first of all, but the actual structure that you guys went through as well. I mean, for for a creative, for creatives, you know, you're actually, you're actually doing, you're thinking in financial terms, ahead of many people in traditional finance, even then. You know, I love the fact that you guys structured this, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was five year period, 5% a third of the proceeds, roughly, being used for additional BTC acquisition. And it actually sounds a lot like it reminds me of, I believe it's battery finance, the guys behind the also big Bitcoin bonds that have, you know, been pretty public lately, and it's essentially just, I mean, the core pillars of it, from, from my point of view, are precisely what you guys structured in your own, you know, in your own creative bond process was, which was recognizing that as long as you're not risking yourself to the short term volatility and viewing this in a five year time frame, in your case midterm, you know, it's an appreciating asset against the currency that's continually being devalued, and the risk return profile just ends up being, you know, quite, quite attractive there. And I think you guys are setting a great example for and it sounds like for many from the feedback that you were mentioning, Ali, which, which is, which is, I think, just admirable that you guys went, went public with this. In that regard, can you tell us a little bit about the access to capital for a business in your industry? I mean, is it typically, what were your other alternatives? You alluded a little bit to this, Carlos. But you know why consider Bitcoin, yeah. I

Carlos Flores: 28:03

mean, we, I'm not obviously familiar with every company in our industry, but we are, we are definitely on the smaller boutique side of when it comes to production and post production. I assume that the big corporates, like our competition, like the big houses, they have much more access, you know, to, like, investors and liquidity, you know, then, like the smaller boutique places, I think that most people in our level depend more on the traditional finance type of tools. So like a lot of line of credits, a lot of like, you know, like, business loans, those kinds of things which are there. But it's also it just takes time, sometimes, to, like, figure these things out. And it just kind of happened to be there, right? Like we had the Bitcoin, we had our own keys, like borrowing against it. It was just a matter of setting up a contract and making sure that we were hitting all these boxes. But, yeah, I think it just made sense. And I honestly, I think we went through a whole Bitcoin winter, and we saw FTX, you know, we saw everything that happened in that time. So I feel like we were both a little bit also paranoid. We wanted we wanted to make sure that we were addressing every single, you know, like risk factor of sending some setting up something like this. And also, because in the future, if we want to open this up a little bit more, we want to make sure we're taking all the responsibilities, uh, necessary. And just

Ali Webb: 29:35

to add to that too, we still control our company and doing this, you know, we're we're not now bringing in people who we need to give points to consider. Carl and I get along so well and and we always come to a consensus on what we feel is best for our company. And that is, I know, a really rare thing. And if we were to start. Taking investors and needing to include them in certain types of decisions, it would be so complicated and really take away from the way that Carlos and I want to be running this company together, you know, without needing to take so many opinions into consideration and maybe watering down our mission and being able to do this against an asset that we own. And yes, we will be giving an interest rate to those who are loaning the money for a project, for our operations, you know, and then helping us build this Treasury will will owe them that money back at maturity. But it's still just Carlos and I it's still our company, and that was really important to me as well. Yeah, Bitcoin

Lynne Bairstow: 30:46

is, I think, at its foundation, about self sovereignty, and so I think this just is a really great example about how you can continue to be sovereign as founders of your business and run the creative I think, in your industry, probably as much or more than any other. I mean, the creativity really depends on the two of you, and so you don't want an investor that is doesn't understand the process to get involved with the decision making. So that's a that's a really fascinating aspect of it. Yeah. And then, I mean, do you see so you have people asking you, how you do this. I mean, did you, did you have a lawyer involved? Or did you, yeah, I mean, because you probably know a lot more about Bitcoin and what's possible with it than many other legal or accounting professionals that are out there, I think that's a small universe of people who can help set something like this up. So just wondered how you went about the documentation process. I've become

Carlos Flores: 31:45

really good at prompting chatgpt, so a lot of it came with that. I've also learned that I even yesterday, I asked chatgpt, it could pretend to be Joe Carla, sorry to read you some documents. And so I know that if Joe approves, or at least they Joe approves, we're somewhere there. But no we, because this one was a prototype, you know, we we just kind of set it up internally, you know, we know like we were not gonna we just kind of wanted to get something done. So chat GPT has been really useful to set up, to set up, you know, these documents and also presentations, because it's already learning like our strategy. So it's been really useful for that sense. But of course, if we want to open this up to other third parties, we're, we're probably going to be drafting in chat GPT, maybe sending it to to, like the experts, to actually check them over. Yeah, exactly. But yeah. I mean, it's Yeah. It all was just kind of very organic.

Lynne Bairstow: 32:51

I want to shift a little bit direction of the conversation to what is at the core of what you do. And so one of the thing I was Israel, and I were just so impressed with your announcement the way you did it, in such a creative way. You had the the series of Instagram Q and A posts of questions that you were getting from friends and associates and things and and I just felt, you know, people always say Bitcoin doesn't have a marketing department, and it doesn't, and I think that's really held back its adoption compared to other digital assets. But you know, the way you just distilled down these, you know, very, very common and complex questions into simple phrases, and the responses you gave was just beautiful. So would love to hear a little bit more about how you view, how you went about that process. And also, you know, just kind of, Let's chat a little bit more about how we can all be better communicators about Bitcoin. I

Carlos Flores: 33:50

think we, as Ali, was mentioning earlier, we were trying to be very careful with the messaging, because we did not know what the reaction was going to be like all of a sudden, you know, like, like, all we post on social media is our work and the beautiful frames that we, you know, worked on, and things, but, uh, so this Bitcoin announcement came out of the blue, and funny enough, it got a lot of engagement, like more engagement than a lot of the work that we do. And we were getting some questions on DMS, but also people texting me Ali was also getting some questions. And as a Bitcoin or I was familiar with all these, just because it's the classic, you know, like diversification. What about other cryptos? Or are you guys mining now? What does this mean we were responding to all these anyways, so I figured, you know, it would be useful to kind of address all these publicly. But as we were, as I was kind of building back, like, FAQ, I was like, this would be more fun in stories, you know, and like, with some humor, and I don't want to dox the people asking the question. So maybe we'll just decorate those a little bit. And just make it funny. So we kind of created content out of, you know, like, the questions that we were being asked and it I was telling Ali, like, our account views skyrocketed that week, like, and, and we just thought it was funny because it was literally text, silver, black, you know, like, like, about super nerdy questions, but our community really liked it, so, or at least they were wearing treat. Yeah,

Ali Webb: 35:25

I, I mean, Carlos is the design brains behind what we do. Whenever I draft something, he will go, thank you for the copy, and then go and put it into something that looks really nice. So, you know, he, he applied his skills to this. And it, it was perfect. I do think that, as I have tried to catch up in my bitcoin knowledge since we've been talking about this, you know, this Treasury plan, that I found a lot of it for good reason to be, you know, like very, very technical you get drawn into rabbit holes easily, and it is hard to distill into bite sized pieces, and that's because it is very complex and its uses are still being discovered. So that is really exciting, but also overwhelming to someone who is just getting into this space, and with how quickly information you know moves and things change in this world, also can feel like you read something one week and the next week. Maybe that's not the right application or the right way to right way to think about it. So I think to if, if bitcoin had a marketing department, would probably have a lot of different departments that specialized in certain aspects of Bitcoin. And, you know, making it more visual, like we were able to do with some of the questions we were getting, is helpful for connecting ideas. And you know how people have viewed this technology and this asset? So for me, anyway, too, I'm much more like a visual learner. And Carl says showed me many charts in the last couple of weeks, and I and it's been great. I'm like, thank you for that, because I've had a couple of Tiffany's just by being able to, you know, visualize the way that these, these assets, work. So I do think that we could use more creativity and the presentation of the information. We'll

Carlos Flores: 37:34

say also, I think I wouldn't change a thing about Bitcoin Twitter. Like, I think it attracts the the right kind of person, like, like, kind of like me, like, very curious, very nerdy, like, I consume all that, you know, like in my free time. But I think as Ali and I as communicators, I think if we were assigned to sell kind of, like the Bitcoin ethos to a broader audience, I think we would focus more on, like, how it affects, uh, humans, like, or human stories around that. So instead of it being about self sovereignty, would be maybe more about, like, I don't know, like, greed, like, or just emotions, you know, that everyone feels. And I think I'm thinking of maybe, like a big short, you know, like very complex kind of themes, but it's, it works as a film, because, you know, it's really about just the emotions that all these big characters, the colorful, colorful characters have. So I think there's a lot to be explored there. Yeah,

Israel Munoz: 38:39

there absolutely is. And, you know, I love everything you guys just touched on because, and it is very welcomed. It is certainly very welcome. There's a new approach to this, because it's, you were kind of mentioning Ellie. It can be a bit overwhelming, right? I mean, it's at its core, something quite complex, technical, completely new, because we've never had a system quite like this. So, I mean, you do need to have creative ways to distill decentralized digital scarcity. I mean, like I'm you need a better way to approach this into, you know, a little more simple terms of just viewing this as a powerful savings tool, which it reaches everyone, and it should reach everyone, right? And your, your point there Carlos with just tapping into the emotions, I think is spot on, because you, you remove some of these technical aspects. And it is a lot of it is about fear, greed, ambition, hope, you know, like, that's, that's what we're all kind of actually going through as we first learn about why this current monetary system doesn't serve the you know, 99% of us, and why, then is Bitcoin a solution. So, you know, I really applaud you guys for your creative approach to the. To the announcements and to the education and, yeah, I'm not sure if you guys particularly feel this exact way. I suspect Yes, but I I think once you truly understand and begin to learn what Bitcoin is, you, there is a part of you that wants to communicate it in a better way to the rest of I mean, you know, you you want others to also have a protection to what we're going through and what's coming. So being able to just speak in simple terms and reach a broader audience is is just extremely powerful, you know, and maybe shifting a little bit more towards, you know, present, forward what, what's next for forage and both the company and how you plan on growing from here now that you're financially stronger, and also Bitcoin, do you plan on integrating it in other ways into your business? Maybe, you know, paying salaries or accepting it as payment, or maybe just continuing you to give back to the community in in this educational component of letting others know how, how this has served you guys? Yeah, I mean, what are your thoughts there for going forward?

Ali Webb: 41:13

I Those are all great points, and we're thinking about how we can address all of them. So we know that in the immediate we want to set up this creative studio with Bitcoin backed bonds that we're using right now, just for foragers operations at the moment and overcoming any you know, current economic uncertainties, but because, like Carlos had said earlier, we feel like we found a way to expand our treasury and and use Bitcoin to fund projects, why not turn it into a creative studio, or we can really make some content that we that were like we've always wanted to, but maybe we couldn't tackle it onto or tack it onto a client project, you know, if it's a director's cut for a spot we get, we do those a lot, and then we end up doing, you know, this kind of spec work for free. But what if we could build on that and not, you know, not only pay the artists for the time they're putting into the spec work that's ultimately building reels. And, you know, a friend of mine said, is like a business card for them. But you know, we can make we can fund feature films and other passion projects that the people that we represent right now have always wanted to get made, but have not had the financial means to do so, and again, we'd still be able to do it without dilution from our partnership. So in the short term, we're working on creating this content studio. We are exploring Bitcoin backed incentives for the artists we work with. We aren't in the process of accepting bitcoin payments or paying salaries or anything in Bitcoin yet. Of course, we are very interested in what that could look like, but as far as we know, we're the only company in our industry even utilizing Bitcoin as a treasury right now, and and getting clients on board with paying us in Bitcoin or accepting, you know, artists accepting bitcoin payments is going to be a huge hurdle. And I think we need to see a bit more adoption, and, you know, Bitcoin in that way before we can do so. But I mean, obviously we would be 100% you know, for it. And yeah, Carlson, I feel like I I'm just things we can talk about, because

Lynne Bairstow: 43:53

I think you need more Bitcoin companies as clients. I mean, that maybe this will kind of illuminate. I mean, I think Bitcoiners love to work with Bitcoiners, but, you know, you're, you're representing traditional clients, including some incredible ones, but in big names. But I think, I mean, I have, I mean, I think it would be a great opportunity to kind of expand your work, or to see what potential there is, and Bitcoin companies that could tell a better story to, I don't know if that's on your roadmap too, but it should be.

Carlos Flores: 44:28

I mean, absolutely, like, it's that would be the dream to, like, not only have a client that is paying your career services, but you kind of all are building towards, you know, like, the same messaging, ultimately. So that's, of course, the goal. One thing I was gonna add, what Ali was saying is that I feel like now we're kind of setting three different paths, like Ali was saying, you know, we have the creative studio. We have our right now, our current post production company that's still doing its thing. Thing, and I, I'm gonna be leading more of the Bitcoin Treasury side. So I feel like we we have realized that this Bitcoin element is crucial to our operation. So we also want to focus our attention, and like making sure that this is growing even more rapidly, because if we want to be able to fund all these projects, we first want to make sure that our treasury is always healthy and growing so we can, you know, create more of these products, and making sure we're watching all our our leverage and everything sounds

Israel Munoz: 45:35

like there's a lot, a lot going on for you guys right now, and this, this will, I think, proved to be quite an impulse for you, for your business, and it was all just proactive, proactive work from from your end, and being able to adapt and see opportunity, and I guess, not being afraid of new technology as well, right? I mean, I think, I think it's still such an opportune moment and such a big lesson. I mean, I think you guys, the story is very powerful. And even though we tend to think that we're a bit late to some of these things, I think 10 years from now, we'll continue thinking that. So it's just important to take those steps. And that being said, maybe as as we begin to wind down, the episode today, I'd like to hear if you guys have any, any words of advice, you know, I mean, you, you've gone through quite a journey, I imagine these, you know, past four or five years, both on building your business and then as well, incorporating now Bitcoin into your into your treasury. And that, I'm sure, has come with lots of ups and downs. Any pieces of advice out there for just generally, for entrepreneurs, and also for people looking at Bitcoin for the first time and considering it,

Carlos Flores: 46:52

I mean, on the Bitcoin side, I would suggest, like, I kind of love our journey, because it was very slow, and it was a very slow adoption. And I feel like with Bitcoin, you have to take your time, because we had to go through that. We had to buy it first, then understand it, then go through the bear market. Have our doubts in the bear market. No, we felt silly at some point. But it's, I think that it, I think it's worth everyone getting a little bit, even businesses, just to experiment with it. And I feel like all the building comes afterwards.

Lynne Bairstow: 47:34

Ellie, you have anything to add. Carlos sums

Ali Webb: 47:36

it up perfectly as he's, you know, like the Bitcoin strategy expert on our side. But as Israel had said earlier, once you learn and understand this tool, you do sort of want to go out into the world and and tell everybody you know about how it can, you know it can protect them from what is happening right now. You know, at least from you know, protection against inflation and and I think you know, beyond distilling it down into something that can be understood easily from the people who are super familiar with it, it is also finding analogies. And I've heard also, as I was listening to some episodes of this podcast before, and I wish I'd found you guys sooner. I have a lot of listening to do. It's been so great. But someone had said, I, you know, they wanted to understand it beyond analogies, which is so valid. And I think I've also been trying to understand Bitcoin beyond analogies. But for someone, you know, if you're trying to orange until someone analogies are perfect. And you know, so as we try to find a way to to spread the message of what we are doing, why we are doing it, and I, you know, finding that balance between the technicality and the analogies, is going to be something I think we're we're still working on and exploring ourselves. But, you know, bottom line, we do see this as a super important tool, and we want everyone to to take a good look at it. And, you know, just maybe start putting little investments in doing that dollar value averaging and our dollar dollar cost averaging, which is what we do ourselves and see how it goes in the long term. But it's definitely a long term solution, not something to you know, use in the short run. Well,

Lynne Bairstow: 49:38

I'm so excited that that your story is being told and told more broadly, and I hope it, it inspires more creativity in telling of the story. I hope that a community builds around what you're doing, and then, and then new creative studio and and better design, better video, better you know. Better personal storytelling around it. So I can't wait to see this kind of take bloom and and, and I wish you just great success with bringing along more of your creative counterparts in this journey to help them, you know, sustain some of these changes that the industry is going through, but also help us all be more effective and communicating the story of Bitcoin and what its benefits are Israel. Any? Any other questions?

Israel Munoz: 50:29

No, I think it's a great spot to end. I mean, I guess, where can people find you, both Carlos and Ellie and learn more about forager?

Ali Webb: 50:40

Well, you can find us on Instagram. We've set up our x account, which is how you found us and our website, or on those three and we have, we have some email addresses on our website. You can either DM us on on X or Instagram. We have some emails on our website if you want to reach out directly.

Lynne Bairstow: 51:03

And I hope you'll be part of the kind of, you know, speak at Bitcoin conferences too, and kind of spread the word and give us all a little bit more advice about how to communicate a little bit more effectively.

Carlos Flores: 51:14

That's off to me. Preston, at some point,

Lynne Bairstow: 51:18

we'll try and make that happen.

Israel Munoz: 51:21

I'm sure it'll happen. And you know, hey, congrats on everything you guys are working on. We'll include some of some of those links that you mentioned in the show notes. And I encourage anyone to go to the website as well, because Bitcoin aside, you guys have some very amazing work. You know, thanks for coming on to the podcast. We had a great time speaking to you both today and wishing much success.

Ali Webb: 51:46

Thank you. It was great speaking with you.

Lynne Bairstow: 51:57

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