055 - Highlights: Episodes 50-54

In this episode, the hosts discuss highlights from five recent podcast recordings featuring three startups and two venture capital firms. They explore the innovative use of Bitcoin treasury strategies by companies like Forager, the potential of Bitcoin lending through Debifi, and the mission of DitoBanx to serve the underbanked in Latin America. Additionally, they delve into the investment philosophies of Epoch and Fulgur Ventures, emphasizing the growing importance of Bitcoin in the financial landscape.

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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
02:31 The Impact of Bitcoin Treasury Strategies, Forager
06:40 Innovations in Bitcoin Lending with Debifi
12:46 Empowering the Underbanked: The Story of DitoBanx
21:15 Venture Capital Insights: Epoch's Approach
26:59 Exploring Opportunities with Fulgur Ventures

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Transcript

Lynne Bairstow: 0:00

I can't imagine you listening to this episode and not being incredibly excited about the opportunities for different companies and the appreciation that they can that they can generate, you know, and above and beyond just Bitcoin as a spot asset, you

Israel Munoz: 0:24

Lynne and Israel are partners at base layer advisors, where they employ their strong network of Venture Capital Partners and startups to connect investors with unique opportunities within the Bitcoin innovation space. Alongside this, they support founders with their strategic growth and fundraising goals. Visit our website's advisory section to learn more. Welcome to build with Bitcoin. I'm co host Irel Munoz and joined with co host Lynne Bairstow. Today we bring you another highlight of our recent five episodes that we we covered on the podcast. This time around, we have three startups and two venture capital firms. All five were great episodes in their in their own respective ways. We'll lead off today's highlights with the three startups, and maybe we can get started with a particularly different episode or contents that we did with a company called forager. I'll hand it off to you. Lynne, What? What? What do we got on the startup site? Yeah. And

Lynne Bairstow: 1:19

I, in my mind, I kind of classify forager as totally separate, because most of our content really deals with startups that are working in the Bitcoin space to contribute to the architecture or the adoption of Bitcoin. And forager is a totally different company. They're in the creative space, so they have a post production company, which, I have to be honest, I wasn't even sure exactly what that was before we talked to them, but it deals with audio, vision, video, and their clients include companies like Nike and Apple and Taylor Swift and so they've got some really big clients. But what, what caused them to be part of our podcast is that they were on Twitter X, and they communicated that they had adopted a Bitcoin Treasury strategy in 2020 and that the that has enabled them to weather different business cycles, and they just did a financing round where they used the Bitcoin in their treasury to secure a loan that is enabling them to branch off into some different areas and expand their business in this era of AI, which obviously is disrupting the creative industry, to do some different things and really to take advantage of this kind of moment of change. And they're doing it without outside financing, because the Bitcoin Treasury has enabled this autonomy, this in this creative independence. And it was just such a beautiful story to tell about how impactful a Bitcoin Treasury can be for a company, not just in the Bitcoin space, but really in any space. And so that's why I especially loved just getting to know Carlos and Ali, the co founders of forager and and getting to hear what, you know, what Bitcoin meant to them in their evolution of their pretty new business. But Israel, take it from here, and what was your, your impression and feedback from that session?

Israel Munoz: 3:16

Yeah, you know, I mean, you kind of made mention to it, but it's, it's, for me, a particularly exciting episode, because it does show the it just kind of showcases the power of the Bitcoin Treasury strategy for startups or for early stage companies in the private sector. And like you mentioned, I mean, these, they're a very different type of company. I mean, this isn't a tech play or anything like that. This is a company in the Creator economy who just injected Bitcoin into into their balance sheet at an early stage. And Ali and Carlos do a fantastic job explaining their entire reasoning going into this, their doubts as well, their fears. You know, they're just kind of from the natural human emotions of dipping into this industry for the first time, especially being outside of the traditional tech space, right? And so I think, I mean to me, it's a particularly valuable episode, because it's, I think, very relatable. No matter what your background is or what industry you're coming from, they do a really good job explaining why. For them, it's been just a complete before and after moment, and they go through some of their growth, you know, stories and statistics. They're doing particularly well in the in the creative industry, an industry that's right now having a bit of a tough time post pandemic and with AI. So there's just a lot of relatable themes to this episode. Lynne and I did a did a bit of research, and we put out some statistics recently on the dilution for startups as they grow. And so forager and I'll just kind of quote this real quick to drive home the point of a success case that. Georgia has been so they responded to that, that that thread that we did on the dilution for a startup company, and they said, you know, just quote the two year can confirm we've been operating with Bitcoin on our balance sheet for six years now, no VC, no dilution, full creative control. A Bitcoin Treasury hasn't just protected our capital, it's helped us grow from a small post house to work to a creative studio funding others founders, this path is real. End quote, so I'll just round off, you know, my thoughts on the episode with with that right? I mean, I think it's a very powerful success case.

Lynne Bairstow: 5:35

And I just want to point that out and give a little bit more of a shine a light on that tweet thread that you put together Israel, and you did a fantastic job of just showing, I mean, you and I have talked about this for the year that we've been doing the podcast. We keep seeing companies that implement, even startups that implement a Bitcoin treasury, just having so much more flexibility in their financing as they go forward. And it's been a trend that we think can really change the way startups get funded. So you put together just a great tweet throughout about how impactful this can be, and that's on our Twitter, on the build with Bitcoin Twitter, and it's pinned to the top currently, but I'm sure you can find it. But I think we were also inspired a little bit by our conversation with Carlos and Ali, because they also took the time to give us some tips on how, if you were the marketing department of Bitcoin, how would you communicate it? Because they did a beautiful series of kind of answering FAQ like, why they did it, and that's and that's how we were introduced to them, by just watching how a creative agency goes about explaining the rationale that they took for putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet. So overall, it was just, to me, a fascinating exploration and with a great outcome that I think really helped us communicate some of the thoughts that we have been expressing between you and I, yeah,

Israel Munoz: 6:53

you're right. They do a fantastic job simplifying what Bitcoin is and why it makes sense for a business. So definitely give that episode with Carlos and Ali yalisin, we also had two other fantastic startups in these come from more of the you know, tech industry, one being Max co founder of debify and Guillermo co founder of ditto banks. So maybe we start with debify, which is a very interesting business model. Anybody that's been paying attention to the space can relate to this recent trend we're seeing with Bitcoin lending models. I think that's going to be, for the foreseeable future, a very, a very hot topic. This lending space for for Bitcoin, using Bitcoin as collateral is going to be a massive growth area, right? So there's different ways of going about that. And debify is an interesting episode, because they're doing the Bitcoin collateral loans in a non custodial fashion. So Lynne, what were your some of your thoughts on Max and devify? Yeah.

Lynne Bairstow: 8:03

I mean, I it was, it was great to talk to max. And I really, you know, we've seen a lot of interest from the different investors that we talked to in the Bitcoin space. And it feels like almost everyone has, has piled into five. And after talking to Max, you can just see the potential. First of all, he's, he's just such a such a strong founder, and I think, with a super clear vision, with a great background, really knows the market. He comes from private banking at a very high level. How he was introduced to Bitcoin by seeing one of his clients, like on a Sunday, you know, sending a payment, a large, a substantial payment, to somebody in Brazil, and getting it. And he just understood that this could totally disrupt the banking industry, and became involved with huddle, huddle in Europe, which is, you know, a peer to peer Bitcoin acquisition platform. And then from there, it's, you know, kind of branched out and started devify, which is peer to peer lending and so, but really, they're a technology company, so they've created the foundational platform to enable this. And so all of the lenders on the platform are institutional entities, so you have a great bench of capital there, and then people can submit what they want to you know, how they want to borrow. Build

Israel Munoz: 9:21

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Lynne Bairstow: 9:41

with Bitcoin. But that's that was a real takeaway for me. I mean, as you keep talking about Israel, it's like lending, I think, is one, and being able to extract some of the value of the Bitcoin appreciation is one of the great opportunities of this next cycle. And so they're not a. Doing it from their own standpoint. But you can see that the way that Max and debify have created their platform, that they could white label this to other banks and financial institutions, so that as the for example, as the US banking industry, is able to expand their ability to hold Bitcoin for their clients, they could, instead of recreating the wheel, license, debuff, eyes, platform, their technology and be able to offer it to their own customers on that level. So, you know, you look at debify, I mean, at first blush, you feel they're a lending solution for Bitcoin. But, you know, with a deeper conversation that we got into with Max, you see that it really is, I think, a groundbreaking technology company that is, you know, taking, you know, taking advantage of the opportunity that the appreciation in Bitcoin is enabling for, for pulling out value from it. So I thought it was a great conversation. I just really see great things for devify, yeah.

Israel Munoz: 11:02

I mean, you're spot on, Lynne. I think they're just very well positioning themselves for this, for this growth trend as a technology provider. And I think you picked up on that, you know, that white labeling aspect during the episode, I believe you kind of, you know, the kind of light bulb went off for you, and you mentioned it to max, and he, you know, he said that 100% that they're already working on a couple of of those potential deals. And it just, I think it makes sense, and it's worth a listen if you're interested in the intersection of traditional finance and this new technology, because I think we're going to continue to see a lot more of this where big banking is is just naturally starting to get more involved as as the regulatory landscape becomes a little clearer and a little more favorable towards this industry.

Lynne Bairstow: 11:53

Speaking of regulation, I just want to call that out, because that's a great point. Identify is available globally because they don't hold the client funds. It's the tech platform, the connector, and so they don't have the jurisdictional regulation that a lot of lending platforms would be subjected to. And so that's that was an interesting way to think about it, too, but you're absolutely right about regulation being such a critical part of this phase of the industry, and how they bypass that by not being a holder of the funds, but just really a connector, yeah, and

Israel Munoz: 12:24

it's just a logical, you know, 123, that I think we'll see is, you know, first, the regulatory clarity, okay, now big, you know, bigger players have the green light, but they're just naturally much slower moving organizations. So I think they're just inevitably going to be partnering up or acquiring a lot of this, you know, infrastructure and technology providers on the background. And so debify is, you know, a great example of a well thought out intersection between between traditional finance and this new technology. So give that a listen, if those topics interest you. So that's debify. Then we move on to the next startup, which is ditto banks. That's with founder Guillermo, based out of El Salvador. So this is also a very, a very unique episode in that, and it's great to see, you know, I mean, El Salvador has been this tiny country that's that's gotten a lot more attention, well deserved attention, in the recent years, the Bitcoin sector has started to grow. And ditto banks is a is a home, home brewed, uh, startup from El Salvador, right? So Guillermo, based out of El Salvador. That being said, he does mention that, you know, their company doesn't need El Salvador. It's, it's, it's the the opposite, right? I mean, they, they're, they're trying to just plug into the Bitcoin network, and they've developed a model where they're able to kind of merge FinTech with Bitcoin. So what were some of your thoughts? Lynne, yeah,

Lynne Bairstow: 13:59

first of all, I just want to, I kind of honed in on on his talking about El Salvador, but I feel like Guillermo Not, not to correct you, but he didn't say he doesn't need El Salvador, but he said Bitcoin doesn't need governments, but he said he hopes, because he loves El Salvador. I mean, he's definitely, like, you know, very proud of the growth of El Salvador. And he did mention, you know, we talked about how the tech community has grown since the adoption of Bitcoin. And you know, one of the stats I thought was fascinating, he said that in 2021 when he first started ditto banks and the and the Bitcoin law passed, there were 15 companies in tech. And now there are 145 companies that are registered with their central reserve bank in El Salvador, that are working in the Bitcoin space, with another 60 in digital assets. So that's phenomenal growth since 2021 to today, you know, and how many companies are choosing El Salvador because of the friendly regulatory environment and encouraging business. And the resources and the support and even the talent that they're generating through the Kubo university program and educating students on Bitcoin and Bitcoin technology from an earlier age. So I feel that, yes, he did say Bitcoin doesn't need, and he doesn't need, you know, government, that government, governments can change, and they can go and what he's building as the foundation of, really, his Neo bank, built on, on, on Bitcoin technology or protocol, you know, will kind of supersede a lot of the of the rails. But, you know, I think one of the parts of Guillermo story that was most interesting was he wasn't really a bitcoiner, and he was starting a different business when the Bitcoin law passed in El Salvador. And then he looked at the opportunity, and being a founder previously, and being an engineer and technologist, he thought, this is an opportunity. So he, you know, unlike almost all the founders that we talked to, that just a real core Bitcoiners, when they that are filling a need, he saw the opportunity that this was presenting and and created ditto banks around the opportunity of the of the protocol. Yeah. And I, you know, want to get your your further thoughts on the regulation in particular that he talked about, yeah, and

Israel Munoz: 16:26

I'm glad you, you know, you clarify some of those, those points, because he does mention, you know, the Yes, Bitcoin is basically, it's bigger than any regulatory body. But that being said, thanks to some of the regulation in El Salvador, he's been able to, you know, grow this business, and now they're in multiple countries. Guillermo goes into the exact steps and the why behind they. They've done everything fully regulated from day one, and the thought process behind that. So he's done everything very, very much by the book, he's expanded his business greatly. He's in multiple countries in Latin America as well as the US. Now he makes a little mention as well to how he sees the competition. He mentions, I believe, new bank and Mercado Pago perhaps, as the the bigger players that just due to their size and reach, he sees as healthy competition, but, but by no means anything that scares him off, right? I mean, he, he talks a little bit in the episode how it's, it's just such a large market that there's plenty of room for multiple players. And in that regard, I mean, I one of the things I really enjoyed about Guillermo approach, and they just kind of highlights. What makes Bitcoin fundamentally different as well is he's really speaking to the underbanked population in Latin America, specifically as a geography. And he gives some, you know, some context on that. He makes mention to the fact that 60% of Latin America is currently under banked. So he's actually addressing that, that very real problem, which traditional banking, just it historically hasn't been able to solve that issue. And I think we'd be, you know, a bit foolish to think that even with all the, you know, new efficiency gains in traditional finance, they're going to be able to solve that issue. You know? They won't. It's, it's just, it's just the unit economics aren't there, the incentives aren't there. And, of course, that's where, where Bitcoin comes in, right? And it's, it's kind of merging in a fashion that allows ditto banks and Guillermo, in this case, to to begin to provide some basic services to the unbanked population in Latin America. So yeah,

Lynne Bairstow: 18:45

and I think this is where it's really interesting to contrast the two companies like debify, you know, dealing with institution and the Swiss banking industry and things like this and and they'll ultimately get into more micro lending. But you know, the flip side of that is ditto banks and Guillermo really, starting from day one with the services provided to the unbanked and underbanked, and giving them, for the first time, the opportunity to enter the financial system. And he talks quite a bit about that in the episode, and how about and it looks to me like it's not just his business, but it's his mission. And he, you know, in the topic of competition, you know, he really encourages more companies to get into this market, because the Bitcoin protocol enables margins of profitability that were not possible before in traditional finance. And so he can be a profitable business based on these you know, the greater efficiencies that the Bitcoin protocol allows and providing these services and and I think that's where you're seeing the growth. And then this is why I think he paid so much attention to regulation from the beginning. I mean, he has a FinCEN license in the US that allows that interplay and the interaction between, you know, us sending where. Says down to countries. They're not actually operating inside of the US market, because the need isn't there, but they the US is an important part of that, because so much of the remittance market from, you know, into Latin America comes from us. So, you know, it was interesting to see his, his talk on that. But the other, the other thing I really liked is, I don't know if it's particular to his market, or if it's just something that every good founder should pay attention to. But I love the advice he gave where he said, you know, to really focus on the value that you're providing and not the technology that it's on. I mean, we get you and I get really focused on how exciting the Bitcoin protocol is. But he said his clients are interested in, you know, how can the service, you know, can the service cost me less, or can I sell more? Or can I have, can I have access to more capital? And that's the services, ditto banks is providing. And yes, it's on the Bitcoin protocol. But that's not how he presents it to his clients or how he thinks about it. So his real thought process is on focusing on the value instead of the technology, which I thought was a really, really wise advice from an experienced founder and someone who's really just done a phenomenal job at growing and expanding into seven countries in the short time that he's you know that he's had his business. He

Israel Munoz: 21:20

he he's has a very smart and disciplined approach as a founder. So worth, worth the listen. That's data banks with Guillermo. And then we can transition to the two venture capital firms that we had on recently. The first that we'll get into is epoch, a newer venture capital firm. And then later, we'll get into Folger ventures, which is one of the more well established venture capital firms. So let's start with epoch. We had that episode with Eric Yates, who's the founder and one of the managing partners, and he did a phenomenal job as well, talking through some of their philosophy at epoch their their approach to investment in the space, and we got into a particularly interesting report that epoch did, which was an annual report that they plan to release every year, and a very comprehensive report on the state of the industry and venture capital firms in the industry. What were some of your thoughts with Eric and epochlin?

Lynne Bairstow: 22:27

Yeah, I mean, it was interesting, because actually, both of the VCs that we spoke with have as their investing thesis to invest in Bitcoin adoption and the companies that are really advancing Bitcoin adoption. And so, you know, you look at Eric, and his is probably the newest fund that to launch that supports Bitcoin startups. And then Oleg, who is, you know, probably one of the original VC funds that supports it, but and how they think alike and see commonalities. I mean, there were a lot of commonalities in the conversations in terms of what they see. And also, both of these VCs take a very studious approach and really go deep into the technology. And I think Eric, you know, as a newer fund, but just has enormous credibility, in part because of this research report that his firm published called the Bitcoin ecosystem. And we'll be sure to put a link to that report on there, because it's just a wealth of information. And I think it was also a great way for he, as a founding partner of this fund, to just take a look at, you know, where are the opportunities in the ecosystem. And you know, where are people investing, where you know, how many startups geographically and and just different market sectors. And then I loved how he described the opportunities in Bitcoin investing as being like the branches of a tree, and which branches end up getting the most light. So it's kind of like, where are the biggest opportunities for for for epoch as an investment fund that will, you know, grow the fastest, where most people think about Bitcoin, or they talk about Bitcoin in terms of the layers, but the layers don't always grow equally. And so I loved his tree analogy, and I really want to start thinking about it more in that way. But yeah, Eric went through a lot of his kind of big ideas, and also the ideas that he thought had the most immediate amounts of return, and, you know, and also talks about just kind of the arbitrage opportunity that VCs are not, have not invested in the Bitcoin ecosystem up to this point. And he, like all the other VCs that we talked to on our podcast, that are focused on it, just see this mismatch between, you know, funds investing in crypto or different blockchains and and the opportunities that the Bitcoin protocol enables, and that more and more attention is is going toward Bitcoin as it seems to be, you know, far outstripping the longevity the security. Security, the credibility and the neutrality that than any other crypto, crypto token, or any other blockchain has. And so I think this is just a fantastic time for for launching a fund, and he's already raising a second Fund, which shows you know just how how powerful this can be. And then, you know, the other thing he talks about is the the importance, and this ties back to our first company they were talked about with, forager, which is not even a Bitcoin company, but the importance of, of having a Bitcoin allocation in the treasury of the companies that he invests in, and, and, and that, you know, they have a template that helps their their companies, determine what the trade off is between raising more at an early stage and allocating part of that to Bitcoin versus not, and then having to raise more money as they go on, because the the ideas that Bitcoin appreciation can preclude them from raising more at later stages of investment. But those are some of the high points that I pulled from that. And, yeah,

Israel Munoz: 26:06

and we have some some good exchanges in that episode between Eric and ourselves on, on that, that concept of Bitcoin Treasury for startups, right? Because it is a particularly interesting, I mean, you know, it's different than small, traditional, small to medium sized business that's maybe already cash flow, positive and steadier revenues. I mean, a traditional start, technology startup, just has different capital needs and different life cycles. So it is great to pick Eric's brain as well, from someone who's actively investing and advising some of the companies in their portfolio how they think about this approach. So, yeah, there's some great content in there. I totally agree, Lynne and the reports. I mean, it's it also there's a lot of overlap with a lot of things that that we've spoken to quite a bit, and you recently actually presented, had a presentation on this topic as well at bitblock Boom this year, and did a fantastic job at speaking to the size of the VC industry and how it's just so underrepresented still today. So that's the end. A lot of that you're right is quite a bit of overlap with Folger so maybe we can just kind of round things off with the Folger episode, which I highly recommend people to listen to. That episode with Oleg, because he is a wealth of information. And they, they're actually the so I was looking this up before the highlights episode today. And they, they are the most active venture firm from the perspective of the number of portfolio companies. So they have roughly 60 portfolio companies to date. So in that regard, they're just a very active venture firm in the Bitcoin only sector, of course. And so they have a unique perspective. You know, they're seeing just a wealth of trends. I mean, Oleg, like Eric from epoch you, views this as kind of a, you know, once in a lifetime, sort of opportunity and technology, they both and, of course, we do as well believe that this is going to be revolutionary in many regards, right? So Folger invests. They've invested in infrastructure. I mean, from everything from security to media to wallets to insurance. I mean, they really have a broad view on what's going on with Bitcoin technology and Bitcoin infrastructure. They're big on lightning and layer twos as well. So plenty to kind of pick out from that episode, but what were some of your thoughts from that one?

Lynne Bairstow: 28:45

Yeah, well, as we were chatting about before we started recording, I just found, and I think I've listened to this episode three or four times, which is a little unusual, but it's because I find that every time I listen to it, I pull out some other new nugget of knowledge from Oleg, and I just find him to be such a really, just such a brilliant thinker about Bitcoin overall and the whole ecosystem, and just the way he approached it initially, from a technology standpoint, and we really studied VC deeply before getting into it. He'd done some angel investing. He knows the technology. He spent time seeing what were some of the failings of the traditional VC industry. And so I think when he makes an investment in a company, or Volcker makes an investment, he's not the sole GP, but you know that they do it from a standpoint of looking at not only their thesis, but also just the tech rails too. You know he talked about in the episode about some of the opportunities that they see, which kind of overlap with some of the things that we've talked about that, you know, he pulls out stable coins on the Lightning Network, and there's a lot of conversation about stable coins, and we obviously see the enormous success of tether as a stable Coin Company. So, you know, as more stable coins are issued, the ability to do. So on the Bitcoin Blockchain versus other blockchains is enormous, and incorporate those stable coins into other technologies, because, as he says, payments drive value across all sectors of the economy. So if you can make the payment process more efficient through the use of stable coins and on a foundation as solid as Bitcoin, you can see where that has a lot of enormous benefits. And they also talks about digital native payments, which you and I also talk about a lot with micro payments. And he also talks about like the use of that and in social media and just in other different applications. He talks about the growing need for tools of Bitcoin, for Treasury, and I hadn't really thought about this before, but this, this goes for wallets or custody solutions, multi SIG insurance, anything that's related to Bitcoin, to holding Bitcoin, especially in terms of if you're a big corporation, like for Apple Computer to have Bitcoin on their treasury. What would be involved with that? I mean, probably a lot. And do we have the tools yet to take care of that? Same thing with the US government holding in their treasury, a lot of the conversation with the strategic Bitcoin reserve have been, where is it held? You know, who has the keys, who has the control? And so, you know, these questions haven't really been perhaps addressed, because there hasn't been the need yet. But he sees this as a tremendous opportunity for startups building tools, also tokenization of assets on the Bitcoin blockchain and and as we just talked about when we were talking about devify, which they're an investor in, is lending. And so the different varieties of lending or extracting, you know, being able to utilize some of the value appreciation in a person's Bitcoin, person or entity's Bitcoin, and what those solutions might look like. So those are just a few of the kind of nuggets he gets into in terms of opportunities. But I can't imagine you listening to this episode and not being incredibly excited about the opportunities for different companies and the appreciation that they can that they can generate, you know, in above and beyond just Bitcoin as a spot asset. Yeah.

Israel Munoz: 32:14

I mean, not, not much to add there, because you, you highlighted some of the most important topics from that episode, but I fully agree. I've had to kind of take that episode apart, because there's just a lot of good content in there. So highly recommend it for anyone interested in venture investing, along with epoch. And then on the startup side, again, wrapping up devify, ditto banks for Latin America, startup and forager on just the Bitcoin Treasury strategy for a not non Bitcoin technology company, but kind of injecting it on the balance sheet. What that can do? So, you know, maybe we wrap up there. Lynne, we had fantastic five episodes, and hopefully we were able to kind of distill the main points in this highlights. Yeah,

Lynne Bairstow: 33:01

now that's, I think you did a great job of wrapping it up. I love these highlight episodes. We hope that they give the you know, our listeners the ability to just kind of pick and choose what you know, instead of listening to the entire episode, what might be the key points that we've certainly pulled out of them, and everyone pulls their own highlights out of it. But hope this is helpful, and we'll start with another five. We've already got some in the books, so look forward to continuing this on. Thanks, Israel. Yeah. Thank you. Lynne, thanks for listening to the build with Bitcoin podcast. If you found benefit in what you heard in this episode, we'd truly appreciate it if you would like share or leave a comment on whichever platform you're listening, as this helps others find us, which is especially important for a new podcast. And as a reminder, our content is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only, and is not to be considered investment advice or recommendation to invest in any company or asset mentioned in the podcast. Build with Bitcoin is a proud affiliate partner river, a full service, 100% reserve custody. Bitcoin only financial services company for your next Bitcoin purchase, use our exclusive link. Partner.river.com/build, with Bitcoin. Thank you sincerely for being a part of the build with Bitcoin community.