071 - Casa de Satoshi's Grassroots Rise in Mexico City

In this episode, co-hosts Lynne Bairstow and Israel Muñoz welcome Santiago Varela and Max Schatz from Casa de Satoshi, a community space in Mexico City dedicated to Bitcoin and freedom technology. They discuss the origins of La Casa de Satoshi, its role in fostering a grassroots Bitcoin community, and the importance of education and collaboration with local universities. The conversation highlights various events hosted at La Casa de Satoshi, the cultural integration of Bitcoin in Mexico, and the future objectives of the organization. Santiago and Max also share their personal motivations for building this community and offer advice for others looking to get involved in the industry. 

Transcript

Santiago: 0:00

If I'm I really want to go all in, I have to also put like all in on my time on Bitcoin. So it's also like a sort of investment in in the community, in in building these bridges. And I think that this is we're like in this point of crossing the chasm in the technology that we're passionate about.

Max: 0:19

I would love to invite your listeners to come to La Casa de Satoshi Mexico City is a beautiful place to live, to work at, to have a family, and our doors are open.

Israel: 0:41

What drives grassroots Bitcoin adoption in Mexico City today, we're joined by Santiago and Max from Casa de Satoshi, a vibrant community space dedicated to Bitcoin and freedom technology. We explore its origins, its role in building a community movement, and its impact through university collaborations and local events, we hope you enjoy. And as a reminder, this podcast is for educational purposes only. If you like the content, please remember to subscribe, share, leave us a comment and give us a rating, as This all helps us greatly. Lynne and I are partners at Bayer advisors, where we use our network of Venture Capital Partners and startup founders to connect investors with unique opportunities within the Bitcoin innovation space. Alongside this, we help startup founders with their growth and fundraising. Visit our website's advisory section to learn more. Welcome to build with Bitcoin. I'm co host Israel. Munoz joined with co host Lynne Bairstow today. We're very excited to be welcoming onto the podcast. Santiago and Max from Casa de Satoshi. Two of the founders, welcome Santiago and Max. We're excited about today's conversation.

Santiago: 1:46

Thank you Israel and Lynne for having us. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm big fans of Billboard Bitcoin. This is

Max: 1:53

super exciting. Guys. Thank you for having us.

Israel: 1:55

Well, let's, let's get right into it. Of course, we'll get into the efforts you're doing in Mexico City with Casa de Satoshi, which is for the context of the listeners. It's a community space for those building on Bitcoin and freedom technology generally. So maybe we can start Santiago and Max with a little bit of context and background. Why did you decide to spend your time working on Bitcoin, and how did Casa de Satoshi come to come to be inaugurated. We're coming on a year, I believe, is the August mark, now that Casa Satoshi is is live and operating in Mexico City. So give us a little bit of context on the team and Casa Satoshi.

Santiago: 2:37

Okay, well, so thank you again, guys for having us. It's really nice to be here because, first of all, I listen to build with Bitcoin a lot, and you have super, super cool people that come into your podcast, entrepreneurs, investors, all kind of stuff. And I really admire them. So it's really cool to be having this conversation with you guys about what we're building, in particular in LA CASA Satoshi and in Mexico City, mostly with with our grassroots community. What we say that this la casa Satoshi, it's a grassroots community and co working space for Bitcoiners and by Bitcoiners, but it goes much more than this one year anniversary, although in August 29 we'll be celebrating one year of existence in our physical hub. Our existence in reality from our community goes much back in the past. In Mexico City, we have always been fomenting like the growth of the Bitcoin ecosystem. I remember, for example, even before I met all of these people, like Max, who today is my co founder at like a Satoshi and Kardashev are tour, all these people that you guys know from our community, I was just like a basement bitcoiner. I was in college and I studied economics, but I was just like studying Bitcoin personally, because I didn't know many people about it. I just like studied in my free time. And then everything changed when one day I went to a Bitcoin mining meetup, and it was casually organized by Max, actually, well, that was the first time I've ever met him, and I learned from this meetup in Twitter, Bitcoin, Twitter. And so I said, you know, I don't know anyone in town that also likes this same niche stuff as I do. So I went to see who was there, and I ended up people meeting, people like Max, like Arturo, who invited me to join Kardashev BTC with him. And all of this great community began to form with these small and casual events where we just wanted to discuss Bitcoin, and with time, we just like, because it took, because Casa Satoshi came into existence, because we we saw that we needed this physical space. In particular, I traveled to Bitcoin Park, and that was a very important experience for me, because it. In Bitcoin Park, I realized how it was the Nashville energy and mining Summit, and I was looking at how on one side, the miners and these Bitcoiners like me were communicating, for example, with senators in the room, and they were all in this same physical space, talking about how Bitcoin was good, and it was actually good for the state and and and the people of the state of Tennessee. So that was, like a really eye opening experience for me. I realized that I couldn't just be like a basement Bitcoin, or I had to go out and build these bridges and also invest my time into, like the layer serum of Bitcoin and creating this community.

Lynne Bairstow: 5:39

Yeah, Max, I want you to add on to that, and I just want to applaud this. I mean, I feel especially close to quesade Satoshi. It's my home base for where I go to meetups, and I've had the pleasure of knowing Santiago and Max for many years now, and being part of the meetup group with them before the founding of this physical space, but having it has really felt like having a home for Bitcoin in Mexico City. And I used to go to a lot of crypto and web three meetups before, because that was just the only way to even get a touch point on it. But, you know, finding my community in my home has been really important. But Max you you had the meetup, uh, before that, that kind of brought Santiago in. So tell us about, you know, how you came to Bitcoin and how you started holding these mining meetups, which is quite niche, as a prelude to what we're doing at Cassidy,

Max: 6:30

Satoshi, amazing. Listen. I think my my interest, my community, my upbringing, what I studied, has led me to this exact moment and and building like as a Satoshi with with Sandy and all of our co founders. I think my interest in energy in particular led me to Bitcoin. And then 2020 I saw the fiscal response by the Mexican government and the US government, and I started getting more interested in the architecture of the systems and how fragile they were. And I started learning a researching more into into this. And I was, I was studying Sustainable Development engineering at Tech de Monterrey, at the moment, while studying that and Bitcoin, simultaneously, I ran, I ran into this guy that was very interested in turning pig poop into Bitcoin. And my, my my curiosity and my way of being, wanted to learn more about his efforts. And I, invited him over to host one of these meetups at my family's business at my hotel. And we started doing these meetups there, because it was a very cool setting, a place where people can have these conversations and have some beers. So it was cool to have another, another setting for these conversations, and that's where I started meeting more and more like minded folks. And we started working on fomenting these places and the events where where we could get together, talk and discuss Bitcoin. Build with

Israel: 8:22

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Israel: 9:09

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Lynne Bairstow: 9:32

And let's just kind of clarify exactly what is la casa de Satoshi it's a physical space. And can you tell us senti exactly what it encompasses.

Santiago: 9:41

Yeah. So first of all, we have co working desks. We have a flexible working first come first seat co working for Bitcoiners, you know, Bitcoin and Bitcoin or environment. Then we have a private rooms, like this one, in which I am filming this podcast with you guys. For private meetings to have a little bit of privacy. In September, we will be inaugurating the Bitcoin hardware store. So we'll also be selling your hardware needs to the Bitcoiners in town. We do events, two events a month, one on one series and the bit devs. So it's an event space as well. We also, we like hug and and embrace all Bitcoiners in Mexico City that have, even if it's their individual initiative or if they have their startup. We we really embrace the growth of the Bitcoin ecosystem, especially the Bitcoin only ecosystem in Mexico. And we distinguish also were placed by this Bitcoin only a philosophy as to where I know, in the city, for example, there is something called uniswap house that I heard of a couple weeks ago, and some other like crypto altcoin or shitcoin venues and co working space. But that is also like what distinguishes us that we have this very Bitcoin only focused mentality, also freedom technologies in general, decentralized systems and stuff like this and a lot of educational initiatives, I think that we also really distinguish ourselves, but by all the just free educational content that we're also always putting in our meetups, in social media, even with essays that we are beginning to publish and stuff like that, and even contributing with universities here in Mexico. So although we're a physical space, we aim to be like the ambassadors of Bitcoin in this territory. Yeah.

Israel: 11:43

And then you touch on an important point, Santi. I mean, what you guys are doing is just so important. Mexico City has been a hub for FinTech, generally, for many years, as you were alluding to in the early days of this entire Bitcoin industry, it's been, it's been kind of under the radar Bitcoin itself, right? There's been a lot of focus on this other crypto technology and just the broader space. So you guys have become, very quickly, the cornerstone for the Bitcoin industry in Mexico City. And you know, you mentioned it's Bitcoin only, but you know, I do want to applaud you guys and make sure it's it's clear that it's also a very welcoming space. I mean, the idea is precisely to educate anyone interested on why Bitcoin particularly is such an important asset technology movement. You know, all these things that it encompasses. So, I mean, contextually, Mexico, just generally, is very primed for Bitcoin adoption. Maybe all the listeners may not know, but Mexico has a very long history of economic instability, currency inflation. It has a large unbanked population, a very tech savvy youth population. I mean, we could go on right, but the ground is very fertile for Bitcoin adoption. But before it was the technology sector was more focused on these, you know, these under the other communities that you made mention to Santi. So, I mean, What? What? What have you guys observed in this first year max and Santia. Are we seeing a bit of a tide shift? I know the numbers have been quite impressive recently, as far as participants that have come to these events that you mentioned. But what's your feel of Mexico City and Bitcoin? Are things changing? Why was it slow to kind of establish give us your your

Max: 13:40

take la casa Satoshi is also a civil association, and we've been trying to partner with education institutions and companies and people, particularly building in in Mexico, and there's been a lot of interest in this innovation from Satoshi and the past years, I think since Bitcoin has been existing here and there's there's a lot of views. I think primarily a lot of people are interested in finding ways to find, to store their their hard earned pesos in in something that doesn't devalue. So I, I've seen a lot of interest from people companies coming from that part to to protect their monetary energy.

Santiago: 14:35

Yeah. If I could have component to that, I would say, Yeah, that. I think people will realize, like, a little bit like Max is saying. But on another side, I do need to recognize that it has been a challenge also to kind of pull people, as you mentioned, Israel. Of course, this is a super welcoming space, and we promote critical debate, critical thinking debates, different ideas. Ideas, etc. Like we always have a controversial thinking and takes, for example, in our bit devs and in the different mediums, we take one time. We even had Amir Taki, the proposal of bit 001, with some super controversial takes, as is usual, on him and stuff like that. So we are not like opposed to anything, but we do like to embrace ourselves only as Bitcoin people, although we can be tolerant to people coming. But there also is, like a line which we are strict on, and it's that we do not like allow the promotion of any other cryptocurrency or any other digital assets, and there are never events related to that. We don't work with any companies that are like Ethereum focused or crypto focused. We only partner with, yeah, Bitcoin only people. And like Max was saying, also on the university side and civil associations on the university part, it has very difficult to pull people from the side of crypto. For example, we have had very some very productive conversations with university people, even here in this table, in the one that I'm sitting in right now. But they I remember they were here, and they told us one time, but it's because you know me as a university, I have to be completely partial as to what I offer to the students, I cannot pick only one cryptocurrency, let's say Bitcoin, because I like it, and only promote education about it. I need to be partial. So please, Casa Satoshi, help me to do a curriculum that is not biased, that is general and and then this implies probably other five conversations after this with them, like, it's because, no, you have to understand why this is the only one you need to pay attention. So it is hard, you know, that is the reality. Yeah, it is a lot of, like, it's like a tug, where you have to pull and go and pull and and also, at some points even, like, be flexible, like, you know, like, see, okay, I can talk to you a little bit about stable coins and how this can help cross border payments, just to give you a little bit of understanding of how this technology is helping and doing innovations and stuff like that. So, yeah, you have to be flexible a little bit of times to do to help that transition. But, but I do feel that people eventually will end up understanding what is, what is really the value, and what is the signal, not the noise? After more time and more maturity of the market, senti,

Lynne Bairstow: 17:28

would you have expressed to me that you've got a potential alliance with one of the universities that is a little bit more open to Bitcoin focus? Can you talk about that or max?

Santiago: 17:40

Yeah, well, actually, Max is planning the event. So what about you? You give a little bit heads up about what

Max: 17:46

we're cooking. I would love to. I would love to, there's been a lot of collaboration with students. And Sandy and me were students when we started working or or diving deeper into, into Bitcoin and the sector, and we've been trying to do a lot of collaborations with with students in particular, because we believe that those are the people here in Mexico that understand it more and see the use cases also. They're more tech savvy. So we've been trying to set up meetups. We've been doing classes at the time where Santi studied and a lot of cool projects have popped up all around the world related to people learning in universities and Bitcoin, the Bitcoin student network has been really helpful and very cool to work with them. And I remember the time the first class we did in ITAM, and we gathered up a really cool crowd of like 1012, people. And I know that Santi was very passionate about his thesis and started working on that, started focusing on Bitcoin in university, met a lot of people interested in ITAM about it. And right now with this university, we're trying to do an event. We will do an event in October where we will do the meetup in their in their venue, and it's a very cool venue where more people can be deeply immersed in the discussion. And this is super interesting because it will happen as a satellite event for this film festival, and focused on woman and building on web three and the crypto space. And so I reached out to this friend of mine, and she has been a part of the community, has been coming to these events at the house, and I tried for the festival to have a more Maxi focus, or lens. And so after speaking with her, it was decided to do a specific day focused on Bitcoin. And we reached out to the global Bitcoin community and spoke with Alana, the producer of dirty coin, and she agreed to come to Mexico and get to know us, get to know the house and have a meet up after the screening the 14th and in this university, so we can discuss with the community, their students and the faculty about this innovation and its implications in other sectors, like the like the energy sector. So it's going to be pretty, pretty interesting to collaborate with this film festival and with the university and see how the discussion evolves there. And

Santiago: 20:42

just to clarify that the event will be held at Universidad de la libertad. So it makes a lot of sense. You know, we are the house of freedom tech, and they are the freedom universities. So it's a good partnership. This is just the first event that that we have planned, but we hope that after the successful first event, which is the screening of dirty coin, we can do many more events to get closer to to the students and the youth of Mexico City,

Lynne Bairstow: 21:11

and that university is primarily funded by Ricardo Salinas, who is a big bitcoiner. And you know, when we toured the university, they have sayings painted on the walls from Ricardo Salinas, but also from Satoshi from the matrix. So it really is an ideal space, I mean, and it's a really progressive, fascinating university that has one degree, which is business innovation. And so I think you know the fact that students will be exposed and their parents correct at the at the event that you're hosting, it'll be open to, yeah,

Santiago: 21:47

also parents are invited, and we're also, of course, inviting faculty, but we are also pushing for eventually, to do even events or workshops tailored to teachers and faculty, and then other events tailored to parents, other events tailored to students. So, so yeah, like we are trying to to grow and get stronger on the educational part. Because, as Max was saying, we are civil association, so we're a non for profit, and we, we just want this, this to be a vehicle that pushes for Bitcoin education in Mexico City and in Mexico in general. I

Max: 22:26

think it'd be, it'd be awesome to touch. Well, keep, keep discussing this subject, about universities, and talk to Israel and Lynne a little bit more about how different university students, part of our community, have been growing in the space, finding opportunities and now working on Bitcoin, building with Bitcoin. Shanti, I know this student is a very good friend of yours, and also studied in your university. So before jumping into another subject, I'd love for you to tell Lynne. And yeah,

Santiago: 23:02

so that's also, like a good story that even, like, gives us, like a good picture of how the scene is growing. So at the beginning in this university, I was the only bitcoiner, so I had to bring in a student from another university, which was Max to help me or to kill the people. And then eventually, like, we began getting people and stuff. So I left the university some years ago and stuff. But this other kid that he's a younger friend of mine, he inherited the lead, and he became a maximalist. He became to, he began coming to the to the bit devs, to the one on one series meetups, starting to learn about Bitcoin a lot. And today, thanks to lakar Satoshi, some person here offered a job for looking for young programmers, looking to learn. And this friend of ours, who is still in college, even got the got the job. So now he he's, I think he's four months into it. I now working in the Bitcoin industry and and got a Bitcoin job as his first job. So he's super happy. And this is just one example of how we're, like, planting seeds. So we planted a seed in the university, and the club is gonna, like, keep growing forever, without the need of us being there. And then also with him, like, uh, hit seeing the cast of Toshi helped him get a job, then it's he's always have this like this. He this appreciation for the space and he wants to contribute. So he's one of his person that, for example, writes essays and comes to our meetups and proposes ideas or shares stuff with us. So this is a little bit a nice example of the organic growth of our grassroots community

Max: 24:41

also, and an example of the cool collaborations that have come up with other projects that are that are open and particularly built to help people understand it as the Yeah, the Bitcoin student network. So that's a pretty cool collaboration. With them. There's

Israel: 25:00

other very exciting collaborations coming up in in the in the roadmap, let's say, over the coming months. But I mean, you know, go goes to show as well that sometimes all it takes is is showing up and, you know, a little curiosity. And I highly encourage anyone who is, of course, in the natively in the Mexico City area, or even passing by to try, I mean, to just go to one of the events. I mean, the space itself is absolutely beautiful. I mean, the architecture, the energy there you have startups working out of the co working space. There's other monthly events, which, to that point actually Santi and Max. Can you tell us a little bit about what the two recurring events are, about the Bitcoin 101, and the bit devs and what the participation has been. And we've also seen some well known Bitcoiners passing through Casa de Satoshi, yeah, tell us a little bit of more of that, that side of

Santiago: 26:00

things. So we have two events, as I said earlier, the second Tuesday of each month. We have the 101 series, Bitcoin, 101 series. So those monthly events, they are tailored more to beginners, and we cover different topics. So for example, one time in the 101 series, we did Bitcoin versus real estate. And for that meetup, I noticed that we got, like, a lot of newcomers, but people that worked in things tangential or literally real estate. And so we pulled that kind of crowd. And then we did a Bitcoin in Wall Street event for the 101 series, and we pulled in, like the finance bros. And then you do another one on one tailor to something. And you also always pull, like a new different crowd on a new different set of of newcomers. And then some of those decide to to stay, you know, as the base that comes to to all the meetups. And then the last Thursday of each month, we have bit devs, which it is run by Gustavo Flores of swapido. He organizes the bit devs, and it is a technical event for programmers, honestly, super high level. Goose is a contributor to Bitcoin, not pick. So I really think that we have a world class bit devs here in Mexico City, thanks to to him, mostly and and also the fact that we have it in Spanish is very valuable, because he, he talks Spanish perfectly, and can translate it even to people that do not speak English. So, so I think that our bid devs is really something inspiring. I am. I'm very glad of of that event that we've been having up and and, yeah, a lot of people come by here. Why don't you get a little bit into all of the the famous Bitcoiners that have been around the LA CASA night?

Max: 27:56

It's been amazing. Honestly, we've been trying to find ways of shedding this bright orange focus light on different events happening all around the city. And for example, we also do an event on Saturdays. We open up the house and serve serve some coffee, and people come to talk and hang out. And that has been been really, really cool to have people just come over for a cup of coffee and getting to know them. They bring over their books. We've we've had authors, we've had entrepreneurs, and we've done a lot of cool things with events happening, happening around the city, and trying to find ways to to collaborate with with them. For example, the Mexico City Tech Week. We had a satellite event at the house, at the house, and it was a at a Saturday, and we invited people working in projects related to tech. We had a guy that built a virtual reality model of the evolution of the Mexico City Valley and how the water systems have evolved. And you could put on the glasses and see the evolution. We also had super test net there as well. I remember one of the first events that that I was pumped about was what we was with super and, and it was this super cool workshop on how to build a a smart contract with a with an Oracle to to determine for sports betting. It was betting, yeah, so, so it was. It was super interesting to have that workshop here. And something that I love about the events and the people that come here, they really try to focus on our community, and they make a huge effort on speaking in Spanish so that everyone here can understand. So super has has been here, and his Spanish is is still in progress, but, but he makes the effort and all of the. Other people that come here for the bit,

Santiago: 30:02

yeah. We also had Chris Guida come here, and he gave his dev in Spanish. Then some other visitors we had were Jeff Booth, Preston Pysh, Jimmy Song, that's very Grant McCarty from the Bitcoin Policy Institute was here. We also, we also

Max: 30:22

do some some fun events and celebrations. It's not all dead, geek and

Santiago: 30:27

nerdy, yeah? For example, that's a good yeah, that's a good point. For example, when there was a Bitcoin 100k Party, and that event was very different to talking to us into attendance for the usual educational events, both the 101 series and bit devs, our usual number of people is between 40 and 60. And for this event, for the Bitcoin 100k Party, which was actually Bitcoin dos punto un Lynne de pesos, because the exchange rate to Mexican Pesos made it 2.1 million pesos per coin. So that's what we were celebrating. And we had more than 100 people for those kind of events, or also for Bitcoin Pizza Day, we did a big event outside, and the turn up was probably more like 80 to 100 people. And yeah, we also do more fun and social events, also for that, people have time to network and enjoy themselves. In La Casa de Satoshi

Max: 31:29

we usually put some we put some tacos, we put we put some beers out. And it's been truly special to have the people from Mexico City come by and tell us about what they're interested what they're building. We've had a an event where we had lightning pitches, and we met a couple of Bitcoiners we we weren't a aware of, and they had this super cool projects, like Sati and Felipe from sapti was there, and I was amazed on how he was working with Bitcoin and WhatsApp and the Lightning Network. And that was that has been truly, truly special,

Lynne Bairstow: 32:08

yeah. And also the bringing in the Mexican cultural aspect together with Bitcoin, like the altar for Day of the Dead celebration, the altar to Satoshi was, I think, just a magnificent touch.

Santiago: 32:21

Yeah, yeah, that was a great idea. So for those people that are not aware, in Mexico, every second of November, we celebrate the Dia de los Muertos, the Day of the Dead. And it's a day where you honor the dead, and you put up an altar, which is like a little table with decorations, the food that they liked a picture of your ancestors and stuff like that. So we did an altar to thank Satoshi. And that was actually great timing, because it was also a timing when it was not just the Day of the Dead in Mexico, but it was also when the movie or the documentary of HBO came out. So we were telling people like, know, Satoshi is dead, and it was actually like a controversial take that we were putting on a dead altar for Satoshi. And also to compliment on the cultural stuff Max was responsible of shooting the Bitcoin on the Why don't you tell them about that on the central

Max: 33:17

bank? But yeah, these past couple of years, it's been it's been so fun to collaborate with Bitcoiners from all around the world, and there's been a lot of interest in in Mexico in particular, because of our relationship with the states and remittances. So there's a lot of companies working to provide better solutions for Mexicans, Americans, people living here to use Bitcoin. And before, before la casa Satoshi existed, I was working as a community manager for your Paki. And they, they, they wanted to do a very cool gathering, a block party. And so I helped them organize it, find a special venue, the mariachis, the menu, and one of these activities that was planned and was to spend the day in the city center, get to know the central bank, and after spending the day there and getting to know the museum and the place we got together, outside of the of the central bank. And I remember getting into a car with super and finding all the tools to get a projector connected to the to the car motor and be able to just turn it up and project very classy. Fix the money, fix the world. Study Bitcoin, estudia Bitcoin to the central bank facade or Yeah. So that was been really cool to collaborate with other companies in the space and and I think that's. The goal here, and there's been many, many instances where we've been doing that, and, for example, working with with the guys at swapi, though we've had so much fun, and it's been this back and forth, no of ideas on how to have a more impact and meaningful impact, and thinking about the generations in the future, and not just the immediate impact, but make it lasting.

Santiago: 35:27

Yeah, now that you mentioned that Max, like, that's one of my favorite things. Like, let us cite the part of you know, like being found part of the founding team and the Kazutoshi. Like, one of my favorite things is precisely that, like the collaborations between my team that we work at Kardashev BTC, with the other guys working in the same space, but totally something different. Swapi, the BTC, like the financial Bitcoin services here in Mexico, our companies are, like, completely unrelated. We don't have many things in comments whatsoever. But we learn and like support one another a lot, and that really helped me. So to give you an example, um, right now by coding is like, super popular, and every no one knows what that is. But before it was like everywhere by coding. The first time I ever heard by coding? It was because goose from swapito, he was like, working right next to me, and he was teaching me how he uses it. So I was like, Oh, let me see how I can use it. And that's how we learn, and we also, like support each other. So I think that that is like, the beauty of like I Satoshi, that it's like Bitcoin founders and Bitcoiners just supporting each other and making everyone grow.

Max: 36:47

Santia, I think it's a great time for you to introduce your role and what you do at ASO Bitcoin Mexico, association de Bitcoin Mexico, and the collaboration with other companies, for example, with capital X. And how has that been growing? Yeah.

Santiago: 37:02

So we also created the association Bitcoin to Mexico, because we, as we mentioned earlier, we believe in building these bridges. So we really want to have this education, not just for the community, but also, for example, for policy makers and for industry in general and companies. So we are also doing efforts to have bigger forums and even conference even conferences in the future where it's not just only the Bitcoin companies and the Bitcoiners attending, but we envision also a future where this in these conferences and this events in Mexico, policy makers will even be coming into the to the rooms and wanting to learn, oh, how is this technology shape, save shaping our financial and fintech services? How is this technology reshaping the energy industry and stuff like that? So we think that it needs to come from our side to put that initiative, and primarily if we want to differentiate ourselves from the crypto world, you know, because there will be, for example, association FinTech, the Mexico, they embrace crypto and stuff like that, but it's not the same thing. So we really need to have a platform like that, but Bitcoin only focused and bridging that gap between our far end in the Bitcoin world and the Bitcoin startups to the policymakers, and bringing these two worlds closer

Lynne Bairstow: 38:33

together. Speaking of that, maybe you could kind of give a high level overview of what the status of Bitcoin is in Mexico in terms of legislation, taxation. I mean just, just, where do we stand? And how familiar is the government, and we've seen a big turnaround in the US in the last under the current administration, with a broader acceptance and no longer coming kind of demonizing crypto, or Bitcoin in particular, and the talk of the Bitcoin strategic reserve, how, how is the landscape in Mexico? And how do you see?

Santiago: 39:07

Yeah, what I usually say about the landscape in Mexico is that it's, it's neither positive or negative, and it really is very neutral. There is not, like, a general sense of, oh, the let's say the establishment, like, is moving towards one side or towards the other. It's really neutral, because it's just like, I think it doesn't have it in the agenda yet, and they don't either categorize it as as a right thing or as left thing. It hasn't gotten to that point yet in Mexico, but there is some legislation where it is mentioned. For example, there is a FinTech law where bitcoin is mentioned as a digital asset, and just regarding that, like taxes, for example, well, yeah, Bitcoin is in cities. Can. Categorized in the loss and asset it should pay, ESA, which is the tax over your earnings, and stuff like that. But like there is some very, very basic frameworks, but nothing too specific yet. And for example, now in in our mining efforts with Kardashev PTC, we're also trying to to expand the clarification on some, some of these stuff, for example, for the regulators to know that our data centers can be pro environment and stuff like that. So I mean, today there is nothing, nothing much more than what I already told you, but with the growth of these Bitcoin startups, not just in in mining and in energy, but in finance, Bitcoin, FinTech solutions and stuff like that, I am sure that more particular laws and regulations tailored toward the Bitcoin side of things will will come up.

Israel: 41:02

There's, there's a lot going on in Mexico and in in the Casa de Satoshis efforts that you're, uh, speaking to Santi and Max, what are, what are some of the objectives for you guys as as founders of of Casa de Satoshi as you look, you know, 612, months down the line. I mean, is it in the form of just furthering collaboration with universities or other partnerships? What's, what's the, I guess, ideal outcome for you guys in the following 12 months? Well,

Max: 41:30

I'm working right now with a company from El Salvador that has a very good reputation in the Bitcoin sector. They're the Bitcoin hardware store, and I think for LA CASA is Satoshi right now, we want to help people get their hands on freedom tech, and one way of doing that is for us to develop this store at the house where people can can get their their wallets, their seat plates, and all the the gadgets for the secure handling of your Bitcoin. And I think there's, there's a lot of a need from from our community, that there have been expressing it to get their hands on on these cold, cold wallets. And it's, it's kind of difficult for people here in Mexico to get their hands on they they don't want to order them online. So I think that's objective number number one, in my opinion, helping people get their hands on freedom tech. And it may be, it's very close for we're, I think, very close next month, to have that store in in the house. And I'll let Santi talk about other objectives at the house.

Santiago: 42:43

Yeah, I would say that one general objective that we have at the house as a co working space is to not just be a co working space where people come work, but that we can also support our startups in the house to thrive like I think that our platform at like a Satoshi is helping, for example, Kardashev, it's helping swapi, or wallet of Satoshi, one of our sponsors, like it's, it's giving a physical platform and really helping startups to to give the next level, and then focused on developers and universities and all that kind of stuff we we didn't mention, but we also have on an alliance with Liberia de Satoshi. Dulce from Liberia Satoshi is very close to to our team, and we are really expanding efforts to to have more Mexican young developers and project managers that are that are wanting, and that are, first of all, that have the necessary skills about Bitcoin and about all the technical details for programming and for project management that they need, and then also to help them find jobs in the space so that our ecosystem begins to to grow. We have more people in the house, if we can, also, like get more more Mexicans, some bitcoiner jobs. Then the La casatos, she will have more people co working here, more minds connecting, more growth. Then we also have on the horizon to keep doing events. Keep doing events. The ones that we are doing to grow our community have a bigger audience and and also hopefully get a little bit of the audience that today is going to the crypto events and stuff in Mexico City to convert them to this Bitcoin only events. And then I would also say that a more general objective that we are working on is on our global positioning. You know, we are, for example, considering global hackathons with other Bitcoin based events and co working spaces. Sorry, and. And communities, in order for us to like also have this position in the global Bitcoin network, where people come to Mexico City and they want to come here, and possibly we also begin doing conferences, Bitcoin conferences in Mexico, with satellite events in Maka Satoshi, and it's something that people look forward to. And yeah, we're looking trying to grow ambitiously, because I think that this is something very needed, this freedom technology is very needed in our

Lynne Bairstow: 45:34

country. I want to just expand on what you both have talked about, which I think are fantastic objectives for the Cassidy Satoshi as an entity. But let's, let's get a little bit more personal for each of you, what is it that drives you? I mean, both of you are involved in Kardashev BTC, so you have something that you're spending your time and focus on, a business that you're building. But beyond that, what is it that motivates you to put so much thought and an energy into la casa de Satoshi what is, what is it that personally drives you?

Max: 46:04

I don't know if it's hope

Santiago: 46:06

or fear, but both of them, that's that's a good way to sum it up next, but I'd say a little bit more of for hope. Coming back to Bitcoin student network, which we've discussed a lot on today, because we've really been helped by them and by their content to to push, also Mexican students to have similar initiatives and Bitcoin clubs in their local universities. Ella from the from the Bitcoin student network, she put out an article some time ago about something called the layer zero and me. And the article was saying that we as Bitcoiners spend a lot of time thinking about all the layer one, the layer two and lightning and liquid, and the layers three that are coming and stuff like that. But the most important is the layer zero, which is the people and the community and the people actually making this layer ones and layer two is possible and shaping the future of it. So for me, I, you know, in my evolution as a bitcoiner, not just like putting most of my wealth into Bitcoin or all of it, but the part that I really like in my evolution, I realized, like, if I'm I really want to go all in, I have to also put like, all in on my time on Bitcoin. So it's also like a sort of investment in the community, in building these bridges. And I think that this is we're like, in this point of crossing the chasm in the technology that we're passionate about. So we need to invest time in this, in these things that other people are not willing to invest their time in, and which is the education, the growth of the community, and stuff like that. So yeah, I think that is a good way to sum it up, to cross the chasm.

Israel: 47:57

I love it, and it's something that I think anyone who's dedicating their time in Bitcoin currently can can relate to both of your points, because, I mean to your point, Santi, we are at that, at that critical moment, but it's we're not we're it's not a done deal yet, right? And it's, as we've observed, it's the educational process. It's slow, you know? It's a complete paradigm shift in thinking about money, society, economics. Then you have all these parallel technologies, so it can be a lot to take in, and a complex subject, and it's, it's a bit of a grind, right? I mean, you have to be patient. You have to just keep dedicating your time to building that that future, right? And in a more hopeful manner, I understand what you mean, though, max that it's a little bit of both, right? Because once you understand Bitcoin at a deeper level, there is a fear component in letting the current system continue its tracks, right? So I mean all that to say I think you guys are doing a fantastic job at Casa Satoshi. We'll, of course, have to have another episode as well on Kardashev BTC, because that's a whole nother side of Bitcoin that's super interesting, particularly in Mexico, with the energy makeup. And we'll leave that conversation for another time, but we'll have to dedicate an episode to Kardashev as well. I don't know, Lynne, any other points that you want to hit on?

Lynne Bairstow: 49:27

Yeah, I'd like to ask both Max and Santiago what advice I mean, you guys have been building this for a long time, and Max, let's start with you, because you started with the mining meetups. But what advice would you give for somebody in another community globally that wants to start something like this, what lessons have you learned that you could share?

Max: 49:46

I think Bitcoin converges with a lot of different technologies and different ideas. I would say, start looking into things that you're buying. Passionate about and start thinking of ways on how Bitcoin could could improve or make a little bit better. And I think you'll find a lot of ways in which you could spend your energy and your focus. And I think it will give a lot of fruits.

Santiago: 50:16

For me, I would say that my advice would be to, like, take the first step and put that proof of work in and and the rewards will will come later. Like, I think that Bitcoiners are very rewarding when they see people put the proof of work in. So if you take that first step, and I don't know, you create a physical space, then someone is gonna, like, really see value, to to it and to your initiative and and like, what you're doing, and they will support you, because they see that. Oh, they are doing meetups every month, so let me sponsor them or buy a projector for them, little by little, like the community goes pitching in and aiding, because it's at the end of the day, it's a noble cause, you know, and and people realize the nobleness of the cost and everything that that we're trying to do through, through the proof of work and the consistency, and I think that in general, in any place, if you begin to do that, or If it's, let's say, doesn't have to be a physical space. It can be a project like you begin putting a prototype out and working by yourself, or even by coding it and and have some proof of work to see that you're putting thought into it and improving and stuff like that. Well, someday someone will be interested in collaborating with you, in working with you, in partnering or funding you in different stuff. So I think that Bitcoiners, that would be my advice to like do the proof of work and and then the rewards come.

Lynne Bairstow: 51:54

Anything else you two would like to add that we haven't asked you any any other words of advice or closing comments.

Max: 52:00

I would love to invite your listeners to to come to La Casa de Satoshi Mexico City is a beautiful place to live, to work at, to have a family, and our doors are open. Thank you so much for for inviting us to this podcast. Also, I promise that we will get the podcast room an upgrade so you can record more and more episodes here at the house. It's your base. Me, nuestra casa, su casa.

Santiago: 52:31

Yeah, and just to compliment, I would say, to follow what will everything we're posting in Twitter on next at La Casa Satoshi. And also in our website, we have some educational content. We'll be we're posting some monthly essays in Spanish for for those who are able to read Spanish and are interesting, interested to read Spanish or or even those who want to to improve their Spanish and and want to do it with a Bitcoin article again. Thank you, Lynne and Israel, for having us, and look forward to having more conversations with you in the

Israel: 53:08

future. Absolutely. Well, I mean, keep at it, guys. I you're doing, as I think can be gathered from this conversation, you're doing a lot, and it's going in the in the right direction. Lynne and I, of course, are somewhat frequent visitors, and we're quite involved. And I truly encourage others to also look to get involved, stop by, go to the events. We'll make sure to have the links to the websites and all that info in the show notes as well. So yeah, thanks, Santia and Max, and we'll speak again soon you.