077 - Fueling Bitcoin Innovation and Austin’s Bitcoin Revolution: Car Gonzalez on PlebLab’s Mission

In this episode, Car Gonzalez from PlebLab discusses his journey into the Bitcoin space, the growth of the Bitcoin community in Austin, and the mission of Pleb Lab as a community accelerator. He shares insights on the types of founders attracted to Bitcoin, the importance of open source, and the success stories emerging from PlebLab. Car also highlights upcoming events, the structure of PlebLab's leadership, and offers advice for aspiring Bitcoin entrepreneurs.

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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to PlebLab and Car's Background
04:53 The Evolution of Bitcoin in Austin
08:14 PlebLab's Mission and Programs
10:53 Startup School and Top Builder Overview
14:00 The Role of Open Source in Bitcoin
16:50 Success Stories from PlebLab
19:57 The Future of Bitcoin Innovation
33:18 Expectations and Standards
34:02 Showcasing Upcoming Startups
36:00 Startup Day in Yucatan
40:05 Leadership and Team Structure at PlebLab
42:14 Future Vision
46:13 Austin as a Bitcoin Innovation Hub
53:05 Getting Involved with PlebLab

References
https://www.pleblab.dev/
https://x.com/PlebLab

https://www.buildwithbitcoin.xyz/
https://x.com/BuildwBitcoin
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❗ DISCLAIMER: This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any decisions consult a professional.

Transcript

Car: 0:00

It's turning into, like a Bitcoin Valley, basically, where now you're seeing multiple versions of different things. And I'm here for it, man. Like, I love it. I think it's really freaking cool. Because when we started, it was just us and Unchained, and the Bitcoin commons, or no, the Bitcoin comments got made after publab. So it was just us and Unchained, and that was it. And now to see everything built around us is really cool. And I imagine there's gonna be even more coming now that early writers is doing it down there, there's gonna be more capital coming into Austin to be spent. So I'm here for it, like more Bitcoin. I want more Bitcoin companies, more accelerators coming into Austin, because it just, I think it just helps everybody, because now the builders in club lab just have more access to capital, and I think they just have more access to doing more more projects. It's just more network effects, and it just leads to eventually orange. It's just more orange in the city. I Scott,

Israel: 1:05

welcome to the podcast. Today. We're joined by God from pleblab to dive into his Bitcoin journey Austin's thriving startup scene and pleblabs mission to accelerate innovation. Get ready for insights on open source some founder stories and tips for Bitcoin entrepreneurs. We hope you enjoy and as a reminder, this podcast is for educational purposes only. If you enjoy the content, please remember to subscribe, share and leave us a comment, as This all helps us greatly. Thank you. Lynne and I are partners at baystone advisors, where we use our network of Venture Capital Partners and startup founders to connect investors with unique opportunities within the Bitcoin innovation space. Alongside this, we help startup founders with their growth and fundraising. Visit our website's advisory section to learn more. Welcome to build with Bitcoin now. I'm co host Yvonne Munoz joined with co host Lynne Bairstow today we have the pleasure of welcoming onto the podcast. Car Gonzalez from pleblab. Car, welcome. Great to have you on.

Car: 2:03

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk with you guys about build with Bitcoin.

Israel: 2:06

Yeah, absolutely. So we there's, there's a lot we want to get into on what you're working on at pleblab, how it got started, what you guys do. So pleblad, for the context of the listeners, is a community coworking and hackerspace, and you do a variety of events and programming. So we'll get into all that. But to kick off the conversation car, it'd be great to understand a little bit about your your background. What were you doing before plaid lab, and what brought you into the Bitcoin industry?

Car: 2:32

Yeah, so I actually started doing the arts in college, like I was was going to be an arts major. Funny enough, I had this really great art teacher who said, If you want to do great art, you just go out and pursue it. So I dropped out and joined a band, and we did that for a little while, and then I found myself in Austin and joined the kind of like the music community here, and started working with bands. And during that time, I found myself doing more computer stuff and joined a web company called a simple orange and it was around that time that I discovered Bitcoin, and at that time was was interesting, because there was a guy that was in our meetings every morning that we would do these meetings for web design, and he would always talk about Bitcoin. This is like, 2014 2015 and he would talk about the Bitcoin. And then one time, I just pinged him in our messaging system that we had, and I was like, Hey, can you send me more stuff on Bitcoin? He sent me the Andreas Joe Rogan clip around that time, I think it was a second interview. And after I saw that, I was just blown away. And I went and bought a keep key, bought some bitcoin on local Bitcoin, and after that, I was sold. And then I never looked at it until like 2017 and then 2017 I started going higher and higher. And I was just like obsessed, and started learning even more about Bitcoin. And then I started my own crypto. I was into crypto, obviously, because we all start crypto. I got into I started this company called thriller crypto, and started interviewing all the kind of like founders and all the crypto companies in the space in 2017 and 2018 and 2019 and then around 2018 is when I met Gary Leland, who runs the bitblock boom conference. I met him at the Texas Bitcoin Conference, and he told me, You need to stop doing the crypto stuff and just do Bitcoin only. And he would invite me to his yearly bitblock Boom conference, and so I would go, and then never really got it. And it wasn't until I saw Parker's. I always tell him all the time I saw his it was the guy. I forget which talk it was, but it was, it was one specific talk that he had at a bit block boom conference. And was when I saw that, I saw that speaking by Parker. That was when it like, convinced me that this was like, I need to stop doing thriller crypto and make like a thriller Bitcoin. So I came back. I. Did thriller Bitcoin. And then in 2020 I launched thriller Bitcoin and went bit full Bitcoin only. And then kind of after that, I I started getting involved in the Bitcoin community here in Austin. And then I met my co founders, Kyle and Keon. We started Austin Bitcoin club. And then from that, we took those meetups to like, 100 200 people, and then a lot of my friends at that time were were founders or, like, people that were building on Bitcoin. And then from there, Joshua Bair and the Vice President of Capital Factory gave us an office inside of Capital Factory to do this kind of incubator thing. At the time, we didn't even know what ink. I didn't even know what incubator was. I didn't even know what accelerator was. All I knew was just how to, like, you know, because I had worked in the crypto space, I had seen all this stuff, and I was, I was already, I was, had a full time job doing it, and I had just left my company because they had sewed and so I was all in and at that time, I was also working with Marty. I had just got hired for his producer for tftc. So it was just like all this different things that were happening at the same time. I was working with Marty as his first producer. I was doing thriller Bitcoin. I was helping my friends launch their startups. We were doing Austin Bitcoin club. We had just gotten space for pub lab as this incubator inside a Capital Factory, and so there's just all these things happen at once at the end of 2021 and it was just like right time, right stars aligned and everything. And that's kind of how I got my

Lynne Bairstow: 6:34

start. It's really interesting to think about Austin as being such a powerful breeding ground for Bitcoin innovation, because when you look at like South by Southwest, and all the innovation that's happening in Austin, and was really happening then, but it was gravitating to Bitcoin. So you know, do you feel that Austin was like a like, a really important part of the journey that could you have done that somewhere else? Or tell us a little bit about how important Austin and the community in Austin is to what you're doing.

Car: 7:06

Yeah, I always say this all the time in the lab. I so when I came in to Austin, my cousins live here, so they've always lived on the east side. Like, I've been coming here my whole life, always, you know, I was going to live in Austin, so, like, I had already seen this kind of happen with the music community. So like in the the music scene had was taken off in 2007 2008 ish, and then it kind of died in 2012 2014 so I really kind of saw this similar type of thing. So when I saw the crypto Bitcoin thing start taking off in 2017 2018 around here, around Austin, I remember thinking I was like, Oh, this reminds me of the music scene that I was a part of in 2007 2008 that was kind of taken off. It was similar types of people doing similar types of things around the similar types of areas. The only difference was these. These were different types of foundational principles and different types of like ethics and morals and different types of things. So I remember correlating the two things and thinking like, this is interesting. I do think, I do think Austin is just kind of like that place in Texas that's just prime for new ideas and creativity. And from the people that I've seen here, like Joshua Bair and some of these other people that have been here the longest, I think there's just a breeding ground here that just is always ready for new ideas. And I think that's why innovation always happens the fastest over here in Austin. It's because we're open to new ideas. And I think the people that come here then leave, they usually leave, like every five years. That's why I'm never surprised when somebody comes moves here, and then they try to change Austin, and then it doesn't happen. Then they leave like that. Never shocks me. I'm like, usually those people will leave within five years, and that happens every single time, and I've just seen that happen every single time. And then the usually the people that stay end up just kind of like fitting in with with Austin, and kind of what it does,

Israel: 9:01

yeah, there definitely seems to be a spark to the Austin community. It's, it's been, it's been fascinating, following that, that that community synergy, if you want that, over the past few years, particularly, it just seems like, yeah, as time goes by, it gets it just gets a little stronger, stronger, the and specifically the Bitcoin only philosophy, I'm not as familiar with how relevant it is in crypto or not.

Car: 9:27

But yeah, yeah, there is a big crypto scene in the 2017 2018 it made a comeback in 2021 you don't really see it that much anymore. A lot of it's now AI. It's mostly just AI and Bitcoin only now, so I think Bitcoiners have won that battle. Yeah. And I think that's kind of where we're at now, like we run the Bitcoin builders club at Capital Factory now, and there's no web three or any of that. That stuff doesn't exist anymore. I don't see it anywhere. I don't see any crypto stuff in Austin anymore. I think it's just because. It's become Bitcoin only.

Lynne Bairstow: 10:01

And I think, you know, just the voices, like your voice, Marty, Marty bent Parker Lewis, I mean, some of the most compelling voices in Bitcoin as to why it should be Bitcoin only. And Joe Kelly, with unchained and like some incredible, you know, really public voices that talk about that give back to the community, in addition to just the business that they run. But I guess let's turn it to pub lab itself. Now, can you tell us a little bit about the types of programs that you offer at pub lab, and who is it for? Just describe it, because we've been talking about pub lab without really defining exactly what it is. So we'd love to get into that a little

Car: 10:43

bit. Yeah, for sure. So here at Club lab, we're a, we run a hacker space slash community accelerator model. And we like to say club lab is built for the Bitcoin era. It's, it means just that, like we think there was a time when you could do things in a different way. But we think now there's this, like Bitcoin era that exists, and things are going to be harder capital, you know, to get capital is going to be harder, to get growth, to get revenue, to do things, to build a company, is just going to be a lot harder in a Bitcoin era. And we, and we're trying to build companies and create founders and create products for that era. And so we if there's any kind of takeaway that I would leave, or that I could leave for your listeners, it'd be like, pub lab is building companies and founders for a Bitcoin era. That's the main takeaway. With that being said, is like, we have something called top builder that we do every year. This is going to be our third year that we'll be doing it. It's basically, like, easiest way to explain it. It's an open source ecosystem incubator. So we allow everybody to participate. We have some really good partners with Folger, and hopefully we'll have another great sponsor. Last year we had timestamp, the year before. We had Wolf. Maybe this year we'll have another really great sponsor. We'll see and and we open this up to the community. We allow these projects, these these potential founders, these potential builders, these potential startups, to incubate with clublab. And we provide like, and it's probably like eight weeks, eight weeks of like mentorship, and we give it away for free, and we were with them every week. We mentor them, we try to get their products, and we try to get them to like MVP, and then we send them off to startup day, South by Southwest, in front of judges like Marty bent like last year, we had Danny, from what Bitcoin did, and we had arm on, and we had some really amazing judges grade them. And then they're, they're presented in front of of these VCs, and then they announce top builder every every year, and and so we do stuff like that. We do two startup days every year. One is during South by, the next one is in the Yucatan that we'll talk about later, I'm sure. And then, and then after that, we just started something this year called Startup, startup school. And this is kind of like our take on what a I don't want to call it an Excel, and I want to call in an accelerator, because I feel like that's I feel like that's the wrong word. I want to we're calling it a program, because we think this four month program is the way to do it. So we have this program that we've created that's built on four months, and we might tweak this, but this is just the initial way we're doing it. We have the first month focused on foundation, the second month focused on product, the third month focused on customers and revenue, and then the final month focused on pitch. And so it's an entirely Bitcoin only startup school program, and it was incredibly hard. It was incredibly hard to create the curriculum. So myself, Keon Teresa, and then the builders in the lab I got feedback from and used a lot of resources from Satoshi Nakamoto Institute and just people from our community, just trying to gather as much information as we can on trying to figure out how to how would you do a startup program around doing a Bitcoin only, you know, type of accelerator, like, what would that look like if you create a curriculum for it? And so we did the first version of it, and and we're right now. We're currently in customers and revenue month right now. And so the quote, unquote, Demo Day is startup day Yucatan. So the participating founder is going to present during startup day Yucatan. And so this is our first iteration for it like we don't know what we're doing. We're not saying that we know what we're doing. We. We probably are doing it all wrong. But, you know, because the whole goal for pub lab, the community accelerator, is to shrink the amount of time that when a founder or a builder comes in, is to shrink it down to this, like, we want you to go from like, I have no idea what I'm doing, but I, you know, we look for kind of key things that we're looking for in a founder or in a builder, and then we try to shoot them down to like this. And so by the time they, they they launch, they eat at least we can get them to a revenue. We can get them to like, you know, really, really enticing product. Maybe we can get them a couple few Angel checks here or there that can get them off, off and running, if it's something that they want to pursue, from like an open source grant perspective, maybe we can push them more in that way. And there's certain things that we can kind of tweak. If it's more that they want to pursue, more VC, then there's certain metrics that they probably need a hit. Maybe it's 10k revenue every month. So how do we get them to 10k revenue every month? Maybe, if it's more like, hey, I want to build a sustainable Bitcoin business for the long term. So how do we do that? And so there's certain metrics that they probably need to focus on more

Israel: 16:04

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Car: 16:24

with Bitcoin. And so it just really just depends on the on the on the trajectory that they're headed. And then just recently, we're we're realizing that acquisition is another option that's out there on the table just because of one of the companies on our accelerator that potentially could get acquired. So we're now, we're realizing this is another option. So all this to say, Lynne, we have no idea what we're doing. We don't like, I'm not saying I know what like we're not saying that, but we're finding out by by taking that first step and like saying, Okay, we're gonna figure this out, because we have the means to do so. We have the builders in the lab, and we think, we think, we hypothetically think that there's probably people out there that are looking for something like this. And so that's kind of where we're at right now with startup school. And we hope that this is something that we can then share to the ecosystem, because we think this is going to be a standard across the entire ecosystem. We foresee more hubs being built, and we foresee more accelerators being built, and so we foresee other people needing some sort of curriculum as well, too. And so I think some of the good news is like I was talking to Michael Goldstein at one of the meetups in San Antonio that she runs. And I told I was talking to him about this idea and and it was really cool to hit get feedback from somebody like him, who I really respect. And I was telling him, I was like, I was like, dude. I was like, Satoshi Nakamoto Institute has been a amazing resource. It just really pisses me off. And he's, he's like, why? And I was like, because you guys have, like, stuff that you guys have been arguing about even since 2014 when it comes to Bitcoin companies, about the hurdle rate, about, like, don't invest in Bitcoin companies. And I was like, that ticks me off, dude, like, I'm doing this with my life. Like, and he goes, he just started laughing. And I was just like, but this is good though. Like, I need to, I need to see this. And I'm glad that even back then, they were arguing about this. And so what we're trying to do with with the startup school program, especially during the foundation month, is we're just hitting founders with the with in the face, with, like, all these real, true principles. It's like, hey, unless your company can tend can beat the hurdle rate. Like, you really need to rethink of how you're, how you're how you're building right? Like we're trying not to lead people on when we're when we're bringing them into pub lab. And then we also do so, startup day, startup school, top builder. And then we do Bitcoin builders club every month. And so we just keep it very simple, like that. We're just doing those 1234, things. And we just hope that we just keep doing those four things every year, keep iterating, and we hope that we'll just get

Israel: 19:17

better. Well, that's fascinating to hear Kara, and it sounds like you guys are providing very valuable orientation and and a super robust network as well, for for anyone that's participating in the programming and for founders that are looking to maybe iterate on their ideas, you mentioned two different programs, which I want to make sure we we just kind of get into what the differences are.

Car: 19:39

Yeah, absolutely. So top builder is more for just the entire ecosystem. You know, on its surface, it looks like a hackathon, you know, because we want it to, we want it we want to get people just in, right and, you know, that's, that's, that's the first step is getting people to build on Bitcoin, like you guys are doing like you just want to get people just to build on Bitcoin, because it's so hard just to come. Its people to build on Bitcoin. So that's the first step, is just get them through the door, and then so that that application is open to anybody, and and then from there, we just slowly try to try to get them down, to find, find the top five, really. And then we'll get them to start up day, and then we'll have them and present. And then startup school, that one's through an application process, just like it is for plub lab. When you apply for the hackerspace, that's an application process, just like our accelerator is an application process. And so usually we work with founders for at least a good six months, sometimes even 12 months. So if you know so it just we have to be very strategic about which type of founders we're betting on, and so it unless we actually really think that some something could could hit. It's just we got to be very selective about that.

Lynne Bairstow: 20:52

But what are the common themes? I mean, do you find that people come to it because they have a philosophical connection with Bitcoin, and they just believe in Bitcoin and they want to do something to contribute to the ecosystem. Or do you find that they're more technical and they appreciate the Bitcoin protocol as like a new and challenging technology to build on? I mean, is it more philosophical or technical, or what is your experience? Or what are you seeing in terms of founder mentality? I kind

Car: 21:21

of see it two ways, basically, and, and this is at least, at least my thesis on it, and we go back and forth with this in the lab. So feel free to disagree or push back. I kind of see Bitcoin companies two things. You're either a technology company that is leveraging Bitcoin payments into its solution. Therefore, you'll probably be more technology focused, and then you'll have, you know, Bitcoin on your balance sheet. And you'll probably take Bitcoin in as revenue, or you're an actual, what I like to call, you know, a Bitcoin company that is building on metal, basically meaning that you're building on the protocol, or you're doing something really innovative that is probably going to take a really long time, more than three to five years, to actually get off and running right. And that's going to require a ton of time and energy and resources, and, you know, time to bake right? That one will probably pay off in in, like, in a really big way, if they're able to get there. But it's going to take a really long time to get there, but they also will probably be producing the most amount of of SATs flow, I would imagine. So that's the two ways that I look at Bitcoin companies. It's like, Are you a technology company that just has Bitcoin payments and leveraging the Bitcoin kind of ecosystem, or are you like a Bitcoin company that is actually innovating on the metal, basically, like doing something new and inventive, and you see a lot of those, but and so that's kind of how I break them down. And then as far as the founders, usually see more the technology founders that come in, and they start here on the technology side, and then you see the existing developer ecosystem kind of go more on this side. And this is usually where you see a lot of the grant stuff that happens. So you'll see a lot of open source grants that go this way, and you'll see a lot of like, more of the big VC bets go this way, but they just take a really long time, and they require more of a business team, a business lead with them, and then a technical thing, and they're just, they just take a lot of time To bake. That's kind of how I see the two camps. And then you have your mining and your exchanges here in the middle that I would say. And then that's kind of how I would break it down.

Israel: 23:50

But it's interesting to I mean, we all kind of look at it from different angles, right? Yeah. I mean, I typically break it down between the kind of more building, using the Bitcoin, the assets, this kind of financialization side, or, you know, the public companies, all the financial engineering to call it that, with plugging Bitcoin into finance in different ways. And then I and then you see the other side, the technology side, which is, I think, more of the focus that that you guys, you know, the type of owners that you guys work with, which is more on the on the protocol and infrastructure side, right? I mean, your breakdown makes a lot of sense. Car. It's just, you know, it's funny, we all kind of come, come at Bitcoin from from our own perspective and angle, and being that it's this new money and global network and open source protocol, it blends a lot of very deep issues into into kind of one, into one big bucket, right? And we love to also get into the open source topic, and it's been a big learning quite, quite frankly, as well, for Lynne and I, I mean, typically from the tradition. Venture capital and technology space, open source was previously viewed maybe, I don't know. I would just say a little differently. I mean, Bitcoin at least makes you think broader about open source and how you can actually build profitable businesses with open source, and how to think of building a technology stack and company on open source. Are you big supporters of open source technology? What? What's the kind of mission of pleblab? As far as you know, what kind of founders you're attracting?

Car: 25:33

Yeah, and just to kind of go back to that last question real quick, it's interesting that you mentioned the financialization part, because that just clued me into the fact that we technically only grab from those type of founders. Now that you mentioned that we've never actually pulled in a financialization product, and maybe we had, like, maybe one or two in top builder, maybe. But that's interesting that you mentioned that, because that kind of tells me, or clues me into the type of founders that we actually grab so that. So thanks for that that, because that definitely clues me into kind of who we're grabbing from to go to the open source stuff. Yeah, so in the early days we there wasn't a lot of open source stuff going on. At this time. There wasn't an open SATs, there wasn't a Bitcoin plus, plus, there wasn't what else. There was a tab comp too. We did have a tab comp. There wasn't really a lot of stuff going on in open source outside of Brink Bitcoin op Tech, I think, was still a thing. So a lot of stuff in the early days, pub lab had to do is to kind of, we had to lay, I hate saying this, because we're not trying to take credit for this. We just felt like we had to lay foundation for the ecosystem, and so we spent a lot of time, our own time, money and resources to lay that foundation. So we started doing our own hackathons, our own workshops, recruiting devs to our hackerspace, providing free, you know, kind of funding for, for the devs in our hackerspace, we would provide hackathon prizes and all that sort of stuff. I mean, in the early days of pub lab, I got a lot of crap from our investors for, for that, because we were just, you know, just giving out a lot of free stuff, more free stuff than we probably should have. So, yeah, we were, we totally are big backers of open source, big time. I think super test net was, was, I mean, we, we gave him free space to Bill. He was free. He was our free and open source chairman for like two years in club lab. And then nifty, too. Nifty when she, when she was starting base 58 she had nowhere to go, and so we gave her a space in pub lab for, I think it was like two, two years, I think pre office space. And so, you know, we did. We did. We've done everything we can for open source and given these people the opportunity to launch their own kind of free, open source things, and, you know, that kind of stuff. So, yeah, we've definitely given back back to open source. I think our, if anything, our ethos, are like where we started is from the open source community in Bitcoin these days, I would say we definitely moved more in the founder and startup part of the ecosystem, because we've, we've just, we just can't sustain ourselves doing the open source stuff anymore. And quite frankly, there's just a lot, lot better people, more equipped to do that, who have all the access to open source grants and to the right people to give them money to do it. So I think we should just let them do it, because they're far better at it, and they can get the capital needed to do it. And I actually, actually enjoy doing the startup stuff and the founder stuff. I like working with founders. They're pretty stable. And, you know, it's usually like one or two problems, right? It's either like, we need to figure out this product to get it to market, or we need to figure out revenue, or we need, we need some money, you know? And, you know, there's always an angel away,

Lynne Bairstow: 29:13

right? Yeah. And I think that, I mean, we have seen some companies that have that that are for profit, or profitable companies. I mean, they have the founder mindset with investors, but they are creating their their product on an open source basis, just with the philosophy that someone can do it better than they can do it better. But, you know, aspects of the company are open source, just feeding on the whole idea of Bitcoin itself, which is open source. And so that's where you've seen copycats a Bitcoin, but you can't do it because it's not truly decentralized, or, you know, or whatever, but it's, it's been a learning curve for us too, and we really love supporting voices and open source like nifty has been on our podcast too, and just love what she's doing and and that. But I mean maybe to. Just kind of gets to the point where we'd love car. If you could just highlight a couple of companies that have come from pub lab that you know are good stories, either on how they've grown, product has evolved.

Car: 30:13

Yeah, I think, I think nifty is probably the one I'm most proud of, to be honest. Like, I'm so proud of her. She's a dear friend of mine. Like, I think we're all proud of her inside of plop lab. Like, how big she's gotten. She was already big before. I don't want to give up too much of her, her story. But like, when she came in at the time, she really didn't have anywhere to go. So like, you know, we all felt like we were bringing in somebody that was, not only was going to help us, but we're going to help with the her, with her thing. And so we were able to help her build out Bitcoin plus plus. And we all, everybody in the lab pitched in try to do her our best to, like, help her with her conference series and stuff. And so we're just super proud of her, even to this day. We all we still help any way we can with the conference. And so that one probably we're most proud of. The second one, I would probably say super test net. He's a dear friend of mine too. Who else we're super proud of? John from zapright, like the President used Sabri like, that's crazy. I would have you would have told me in 2021 company inside of pub lab was going to be used by the President. I'd been like, what? That's insane. And that's because when I first saw John, who came in with SNAP, right? I was the only one the room that didn't think it was going to be a good product. I literally remember telling him that I was like, that's why. Like now I like when I grade products, I like hold my reservations, I I focus more on the founder first, and I do the product. Because I realized the found actually betting on the hor or betting on the founder makes the most sense, even even before the product. I've just come to realize that over time. So I don't bet on the product as much as I bet on the foundry these days. What else? Who else? Keon? Obviously, he's a genius. I don't think people in Bitcoin realize how much of a genius that guy is. He'll never say that, but I don't mind saying that. Super proud of him. Amazing story. Who else have we had? I think just, I think also just seeing, like, oh, people like Austin, people who you never saw coming. Like, unassuming kid from Oklahoma, like, woe is me, the whole world, sky's falling. Kind of guy came with his wife, moved to Austin just was working a Fiat job, like, I think, hourly, or something, humble beginnings and to where he is now. Like, if you had to tell me that story, literally rags to riches, you know, now he's, like, Bitcoin pleb Dev, like, that's crazy. Like, seeing him his stars rising. Like it's crazy, Topher sitting next to me right here, like he's another wizard who's just like, ever since super left, I feel like he's the guy that's like, stepped into that role now is, like the main wizard in pub lab. Like, now whenever we have, like, a wizard question, we just ask Topher. So it's just like, I've noticed, just in like, club lab. We've just been very lucky recruiting really talented people, and then they just stick around, and then some will leave, and then we'll just get more. So I think we're just, I think we're just very lucky that we've just been able to just grab insanely great builders. But I also think it's just that we have such a, like a history now, at this point, like, we have a thing I say in the lab that probably pisses people off, but I always say this all the time. Like, you know, there's so many places in the world that you go build on Bitcoin, you know. But like, if you come to plop lab, we expect you at a certain level, and if you're not at that level, like, probably should leave. And like, we, I mean that actually, but, and so I think that kind of, I think that kind of, I think that kind of mentality definitely starts at the top. So me and Keon act that way, and so we kind of expect everybody else to act that way.

Israel: 33:49

That's That's some great success stories for how early you guys have, you know, been around for and I'm sure you you'll get a lot more people and companies to be proud of in the coming years. And how about the company? How about the companies that are going to be showcasing at the upcoming startup day car? Maybe you can, maybe we could get into the upcoming startup, startup day in Yucatan,

Car: 34:13

yeah, for sure. So we have feed filter. So feed filters the next AI company coming out of club lab. So this one's really interesting. So he's, he's slowly building out this kind of top of funnel right now. It's so it's this amazing AI app that is entirely focused on reducing your social media feed to just just alpha and signal. Right now he's working on the first iteration, which is just for Twitter and I believe Instagram. And so how it will work eventually is it'll eventually be its own app. So think like perplexity, but for social media. And so if he can get it to that point, I think that's a company that could probably get acquired. I think it's. Point, super bullish on what he's doing, because he's somebody that's been in club lab for about two years, and so he's just been slowly building that. So he's going to be making an announcement in the Yucatan. We also have cascader, which was the first AI company inside of club lab. So he's, he's launching, I think, a new version of pull it up. Jamie, that'll be announcing at the Yucatan. We also just heard back from today. We have Justin shocknet, who will be doing an announcement as well, too. So Justin has been building lightning video and his shock wallet for three years. He comes out of wolf. I don't know if you guys are familiar. Have had Kelly on from Wolf, but they're doing amazing stuff in New York too, as well as as well as accelerating Bitcoin companies. And so he's from their first cohort, I believe. And so he's he's been slowly iterating on his own wallet. And so I'm super bullish on Justin. And then we have two more people I'm waiting to hear back from. So as soon as we get those, we'll, we'll lock those in. And then, especially so, I think the biggest announcement is going to be from Francisco.

Lynne Bairstow: 36:12

Is your pocket just to be this is for yo Paki, yeah, it's insane. And Francisco has been instrumental in in the pub lab. Startup day is being held in Mexico too, right, which is super excited about. But can you explain the reasoning behind that? I mean, you're austin based, but it's been so great to bring this down to Mexico City

Car: 36:34

at first. I mean, so we got offered to do startup day this time somewhere else. It wasn't supposed to be in the Yucatan. It was supposed to be somewhere else, overseas, and he wanted to do in the Yucatan, so we did it. Hopefully we can keep doing it wherever he wants to do it. But because I'm open to it, I love doing it wherever Francisco wants to do it. But I think, I think it's, I think it's beneficial for him, and I think it's, it's something that he loves doing every year. And you know, he's, he's part of our he's part of club lab, and we love to support our founders who are in club lab. So if there's anything that a company comes through pub lab, and I always tell people that once you come through club lab. It's, it's kind of like what YC was able to do, like, you know, I'm pretty sure they did the same thing too. Like, once you're in club lab, you're, you're always in club lab, and you can benefit from its resources for eternity. So, like, you know, that also means you can onboard all the companies inside of club lab, and potentially now you have this whole, you know, you know, B to B to B partnerships that are open to you now because you're a company inside of pub lab. So it so that also means pub lab in itself too. So, like, we'll keep doing whatever he wants to do, as long as he wants to continue working with us and and so we'll do it. And that's the only reason, Lynne, there's no other reason outside of that. But, yeah, we got offered to do clublab startup day overseas, and I was kind of looking forward to it because it was going to be a really cool, cool city. But no, we'll keep doing it with Francisco as long as he wants to do it.

Israel: 38:08

And for this upcoming startup day car in Merida, Yucatan is, is it going to be recorded? So if anyone's interested in remote, yeah, you know, participating or listening. Can you tell us what those options might be? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Of the event.

Car: 38:26

Yeah. So it's going to be ninth, 10th, 11th, the white paper, house is going to be doing like a community event all day on the ninth. We also might pub lab also might be doing something. I can't say who it is yet, just because, like, I gotta wait to hear back from them. So it'll be so well, maybe we'll have, like, a live stream going on that day, pub lab with with that other company, which will be cool because it'll bring more builders there. So there might be another thing going on alongside the white paper, house day on the ninth. So that'll be a lot of fun. And then the 10th will be startup day, and then we'll have, like, a full day of speakers and announcements and panels. And then the yo Paki Bitcoin block party is happening that evening. And like, last year was a blast, and the year before, that was a blast. And this is going to be the third one. It's going to be amazing. And then the 11th. We're kind of just all hanging out. Last year we went to the pyramids, I think, yeah, we went to the pyramids last year. And then so this year, I think we're going to the beach. Francisco is kind of planning all that, and then we'll be doing dinners and stuff like you normal conferences. And it's a really good it's a really good event. Startup day in Mexico City last year was amazing. It was so much fun. Everybody loved it. And then this year in the Yucatan, I'm looking forward to it,

Lynne Bairstow: 39:49

and then it will be live streamed, also, correct? And, oh yeah, yeah. Well, on your

Car: 39:53

Yeah. So yeah. So we'll have the live stream. We'll probably have the live stream on the yo Paki. And. The pleb lab. And then we'll also probably have it on YouTube. And then we'll have it on pleb TV as well too. And then we'll have some, I'm sure we'll have access to that afterwards for viewing as well, too. And yeah, we're gonna try to show it everywhere as best we can.

Lynne Bairstow: 40:16

And maybe car can you talk to us a little bit about the kind of the leadership at pub lab, how you guys are organized and what your team looks like, because I know a lot of your team will be down in merit as well, but would love to just give some shout outs to like Teresa and to your co founders.

Car: 40:33

Yeah, so the pub lab was started by myself, Keon and Kyle. Kyle stepped away in 22 because he had a family and kids and all that stuff. So he's no longer part of the the team, so it's just the founder. Now, the founders are Ying me and Keon. So Keon is usually hands off. For the most part, I'll bug him, you know, once or twice a week with some couple things, but for the most part, he just focuses on stacker news. But he's very much somebody who I do check in with and heed his advice on certain things. He was very instrumental with the startup school, because he's somebody that understands founders and and all that stuff really, really well, and somebody that I wouldn't feel right doing that without checking in with them on that kind of stuff. And then Theresa, she's the CEO of pub lab, so she does a lot of the stuff behind the scenes. She's, she's the person that makes us look great, I like to say. And then I'm the CEO, so I'm the one responsible for a lot of the stuff that that you see, you know, out in front so, doing all the talking, doing all that sort of thing, and then we have an engineer that works on a lot of the stuff that we do internally with the website and club TV stuff and stuff like that. And that's pretty much it. That's a pretty lean team. And we're looking to hire a salesperson here pretty soon to focus on sales. And hopefully we can get that, that position hired. I think I do want to get somebody to just help with the hacker space in general here, just to come in part time, at some point, maybe next year or later this year, because that that would be, that would be really great. And then, for the most part, we try to run like our business unit, as far as the hackerspace, really, really, really lean. We just try to keep it like that, so that way we're not spending any money and everything's just focused on the accelerator

Israel: 42:31

and looking forward. Car. What's the what's the kind of vision or roadmap you have for pleblab? You know, if you look out five years from now, let's say, you know, where would you like to see pleblab? I mean, are you guys hoping to be able to kind of scale this concept in other cities, or leave that to other people to kind of copy and paste what you guys are doing? Yeah, what's your kind of forward looking aspirations with pleblab?

Car: 43:00

I mean, to be honest, I really don't know. Like, it's kind of one of those things, like, if you would ask me, in 2021 what I would have thought I would have gave you, like, a bullish answer, just because I was so naive, right? You know, I could definitely give you a forecast for next year, if that's okay, because I've come to realize in Bitcoin, it's really, is just like about survival, you know, pub Lab is a startup in itself, in a lot of ways, and I think that's why we've been scrappy enough to figure it out, right? And I think that's what makes us kind of like a cool place to come learn as well, too. So, yeah, yeah. I think, I think overall, I would just say next year, like we hope to do top builder three this year. So we hope to launch that. We hope to do startup day. We ship that later this year. We want to finish plebtv. That's something that we were really working on, to get that done later this year, released by early next year. That's something that we think is really important for us in our startups, inside of pub lab and our builders. So that's that we think that's important. So we'll get that shipped hopefully, and then do another startup day, do another startup school, and hopefully we can make that way better than the one that we had this year and keep improving on that, and then do another startup day. We just really want to, you know, Lynne Teresa always talk about this all the time, like we just, we really just want to do the same boring thing every year. And I know that sounds like kind of not super investable, or it probably sounds really boring to people that hear this podcast and are like, why would you want to do the same boring thing every year? But we actually think that's probably the best way to make the best program at pub lab possible, because we think that there's just something about iterating on the same. A proven thing over and over and over and over again, just because we've seen it with top builder so we did top builder one, we we learned so much on top builder two, and we think when we do top builder three, we'll learn even more on top builder three. And so that's where we kind of had this mindset, and we've done the same thing with workshops. When we first started doing workshops, we didn't know how to do a conference, so we just kept doing workshops until we figure out how to do a conference. And so we just have this mentality of, like, doing the same things over and over and over and over again until we get really good at

Lynne Bairstow: 45:29

it. Everyone see a little bit of like Y Combinator and their formula for bringing people through the teams change, but the to have a foundational program. And I almost look at pub lab as being, you know, when you when you think about the evolution of Bitcoin, I think we've gone from, you know, digital asset now you have financialization and acceptance and regulation. But I just, I mean, of course, it's what Israel I believe in, and what we do every day is, as you do is, is try and support this idea that innovation and startups and and building, you know, on the Bitcoin protocol, with Bitcoin as a philosophy is going to blossom in some way. You know, as soon as people start realizing how exciting the technology is and and what you can do with it. But I see Austin, from what you described, the creativity that's present there, the tech talent that's present there. And it's very I mean, you see this evolution of Austin is clearly one of the hubs of Bitcoin innovation. Nashville probably being the other other location. So it's a shift from Silicon Valley, which still doesn't seem to in LA and New York, which still doesn't seem to really grok it totally, you know, maybe a little bit of AI and Bitcoin and Silicon Valley. But, I mean, I just, I mean, how do you see Austin developing and pub labs role inside of that development and Austin,

Car: 46:56

I think the stability part is probably the most important thing that PlebLab could probably do for these founders. I think us just being stable in itself is probably the most important thing for these founders. So any type of program that we can, that we can have that is stable and reoccurring, just like you said, just like YC does, is the most important thing. And so, yeah, you're right. Us just doing the same reoccurring things every year makes us look stable and makes us feel foundational to these founders and projects that come in so that that it feels to them like, hey, they have something going there that actually feels concrete and proof that it works for for people. And I think you're right. I think YC was able to do that, and it proved that it worked. And so I think as long as Yeah, go ahead,

Lynne Bairstow: 47:44

no, and there's just this network effect too, as you have more and more people go through the program, because I know Jim from cascader has talked to us about how important pub lab was in his journey, just from having this idea to all of the all of the input and advice and kind of support he got from inside of pub lab that allowed him to create what he's created today. And so as your network of founders grows, that just creates this synergistic effect too, absolutely.

Car: 48:15

And I think, like you were saying, like, I think that stability is kind of what makes us more enticing as time goes on is that stability that we could provide to founders. You know, if I was out there and I was looking at a place to go to, I would come to pub lab, because looks like they have a program, looks like they have some experience doing it. But why? I think Austin is bullish, I think, you know. So there's like, two other hackerspaces, Bitcoin hacker spaces in Austin now, which is kind of cool. And one of them actually sprouted from from club Lab, which I'm really proud of. So nifty. Has her own hackerspace across the freeway on the east side. So that's kind of cool. So she has her own hackerspace Now, there's another hacker space that's kind of low key no one really knows about, but that's far on the east side, that's more like a decentralized hacker space with a bunch of shadowy, super coders. That's happening too. It's also Bitcoin and and then now we have Bitcoin Park, which is a co working Bitcoin only space that that that's right next door to us here in the unchained office. So that's, so that's three right there, right and then we have G, so g from down the road in San Antonio. He just opened up his Bitcoin hub two months ago in San Antonio. So they've been doing educational stuff there. And so the guys have also been going down there to, like, do events and meetups and stuff like that. So that's, that's like 50 miles away, or 70 miles away, whatever that is. And then we have, like, the Round Rock meetups. We have some meetups down south here. And then I think there's some other stuff happening in Bitcoin. And then we're doing now here at Capital Factory, we're doing the Bitcoin. Builders club. What else is going on? Oh, and then they just announced, I just heard that they announced the early writers stables thing down south here Wimberley, which is like 20 miles away. So it's super like I was telling Keon. I was like, Dude, this is turning into a Bitcoin version of Silicon Valley. But now, obviously it's not Silicon Valley, but it's turning into like a Bitcoin Valley, basically. Bitcoin Valley, basically, where now you're seeing multiple versions of, like, different things. And I'm here for it, man. Like, I love it. I think it's really freaking cool, because when we started, it was just us and Unchained, and like the Bitcoin commons, or no, the Bitcoin comments got made after publab. So it was just us and Unchained, and that was it. And now to see everything built around us is really cool. And I imagine there's gonna be even more coming now that early writers is doing it down there, there's gonna be more capital coming into Austin to be spent. So I'm here for it, like more Bitcoin. I want more Bitcoin companies, more accelerators coming into Austin, because it just, I think it just helps everybody. Because now the builders in club lab just have more access to capital, and I think they just have more access to to doing more more projects. It's just more network effects, and it just leads to eventually orange. It's just more orange in the city, and, yeah, and it just leads to more Bitcoin companies coming out of the Central Texas area. And it's really, really bullish. And I really kind of felt like we were so I always had. I wrote a paper a long time ago, our blog post a long time ago about how we were in this kind of like, gosh, I don't remember how I worded it, but like we were in this kind of, like fostering phase of community. And then we and now we're in this kind of like parish phase, meaning that you're gonna see multiple parishes just start popping up, and they're gonna be sprouted out from people who came from these other parishes, just like you would see with churches. So that's what happens with churches. Is like, you see a church getting created, and then people will from that church will go also and create their own church, and then before you know it, you have multiple ones in the same city, and they all know each other. They all go to the same ones. It's just now you have multiple people attending different ones, and certain people have their certain things and yeah, and that's kind of how I see it playing out. I see it happening exactly like that. But it's just this new version of Bitcoin. It's really cool. It's really cool. So now we're now there's, technically, used to be there's 31 accelerators in Austin, and we were one bitcoin one. Now there's officially two. So now there's 32 accelerators in Austin. Two of them are Bitcoin bullish.

Israel: 52:53

Oh yeah, that's impressive car. And congratulations to you guys. Earlier, you said you felt lucky, and sometimes luck does play a role. But there, there is something to be said about the, you know, the early starters in those communities. And why wouldn't you want more founders, more mentors, more investors around I mean, that network, that's what really creates, you know, a strong ecosystem, and it gives it a special energy. That's why, you know, Silicon Valley, for so many years, has been such a strong breeding ground for for the tech industry. And it's just fascinating to see what you guys are doing over there in in Texas. It's it's very obvious that it's very real movement, let's say, and for anyone that that likes and was interested in maybe supporting pleb lab, what are the different ways of getting

Car: 53:43

involved? Yeah. So we have, like, our different events every year, like startup day that you could definitely attend. I highly recommend attending. Definitely a lot of alpha and signal in there. Also, we have our hackerspace memberships. We have our online builder pass. You could definitely grab one of those. Our online builder pass is one that most normal people will purchase. It's $300 a month. But that's also a way people will support they'll typically buy that and then they get a hangout in our online Slack channels and get to see what all the builders are doing and talking about inside of pub lab. So it's it's probably the most inexpensive way to get access to the donors. And then the other way is just a direct investment into pub lab. We We also accept Angel checks into pub lab, and we also create a a list, so that way we have you available for for our founders who are looking for what you know when they're when they're ready to pursue funding, usually what happens is we'll go to that angel list first, and then we'll, we'll reach out to them first and say, Hey, this particular founder inside the lab is looking for funding, and are you interested? And. We'll either get it back a yes or no, and then we kind of go from there. But that's, that's usually the ways that we go about doing things.

Lynne Bairstow: 55:06

Or what? What advice would you give somebody who's considering getting involved with Bitcoin, either as an employee, technical talent, or founding a company? I mean, you, you are ground zero for this. So what? What might what should they know before stepping into this, this world? Or should they just jump, jump in with both feet?

Car: 55:29

I think the most important thing is definitely be around other builders. I think I don't know why you would be building a Bitcoin company alone in a silo. That makes no sense. So the first things first, if you're building a Bitcoin company, and you've never done that before, you shouldn't be building a loan. You should find the nearest hub. I would say, Come to pub lab. We have a pretty good track record of being successful with founders, so your likelihood of you being successful is very high. But if you can't come to pub lab, find your local Bitcoin hub and go there and get a membership, yeah, because I think it's just, it's, it's, you're talking about the best of the best when it comes to builders, and then you're talking about the hardest thing you're ever going to do as just being an entrepreneur, it's just tough being an entrepreneur, just in general, and then much less a business that's makes revenue. I mean, yeah, there's, it's just that's good for moral support, for moral support, if anything else, yeah, I think, I think that's the best thing. And then after that, once you get through all those things, I would say, build something that people actually want, like, build something that that actually is, you know, that is something that people are excited to get their hands on or to use, and if it doesn't make you actually want to use it, like, if you're not using your product, you probably don't have something that people want. And that's usually how I can tell, like, if, if I'm talking to a founder about their product, and they're not using it themselves, then probably shouldn't be building it. So that's usually the first tell is, like, Wait, are you not using your own products? Like, I'm here at pub lab all the time, literally all the time. I'm here to like, 3am 12am I love club I live at Club lab. Don't physically live, but I love it so much that I'm here all the time. And so if I love club lab that much, then I know it's a product that other people want to use. So I think first, just like falling in love with your own product is important, and then make, and then getting feedback and finding out the right pricing model that works for it, like the right pricing model fit is is the second most important thing outside of that. It's just like making. I mean, maybe not finding out the right pricing for it, but making sure you have the right pricing model fit for it, and making sure that fits with the product that you're trying to

Israel: 58:02

design. Well, love the advice car. And we'll, of course, be including the website and also the link to the media event. But apart from that, where can people get in touch? Will you guys be participating at other events? Where can people kind of reach out?

Car: 58:19

Yeah, yeah. So we'll be at startup day Yucatan, and we'll be there starting on the seventh. So we'll be there seventh, eighth, ninth and 10th and 11th, I believe, and then we're headed to tab comp seven, which is in Atlanta. I think I'm doing like, one or two panels, I'm not sure. But we'll be there. I'll also be there. So like, feel free come talk to me there. I'll be talking to everybody about their projects or companies. So if you have any advice or any like feedback, or anything like that, or need that, need advice or feedback for your project, definitely reach out. And then after that, that's pretty, pretty much it. I don't think I'm traveling anymore, anywhere else, maybe Roatan, maybe at some point. And then, yeah, we'll be doing a Bitcoin builders club in November. We'll be talking to Zach from travel ventures. So we'll be at Capital Factory in November, and we'll, we'll have a fireside chat with Zach from travel ventures. We'll be learning all about what they look for in in Bitcoin companies in early stage. And so I'm looking forward to that talk that should be fun. Last month we were talking to Jimmy song, and then what else we got going on? And then the other thing I would say is, like, I don't have social media, so I'm not on social media. Maybe when a feed filter builds out their their app, I'll come back to social media, but until then, you can find me, I'm on I'm on primal, so you can find me on primal, or you can find me on stacker. News and email, I'm the fastest on email, so if you shoot me an email, car@clublab.com I'll respond back to you pretty fast, usually within 24 hours. So pretty responsive.

Lynne Bairstow: 59:57

Well, thank you so much for spending your time. With us today, car, it's, I feel like it's overdue, because you're what you're like ground zero for Bitcoin innovation and and helping startups and and I'll look forward to seeing you. I'll be at Merida your Yeah, I know excited about that, and meeting all the teams that you've had run through pub lab.

Car: 1:00:16

Yeah, I'm looking forward to chatting with you again. And should be fun. It's always a good time whenever Lynne gets involved.

Israel: 1:00:23

Do appreciate the time car. And we'll, of course, be in touch and and thanks for for all the all the advice and sharing everything that you guys are working on over in Austin. Yeah.

Car: 1:00:33

And I just want to say thank you for y'all for continuously doing this podcast. It is very helpful for people like myself to get the word out. And you know, it's it's not easy for us to to to to to get out, to get out our information to the masses. So thank you for being another outlet for people like us to get the word out. It's very important. It's very, very important because there's very few podcasts that will have on people like us building on Bitcoin. We're not, we're not, we're not, we're not talking about price. We're not talking about, you know, the the stuff that that people usually want to hear about. So thank you for doing this podcast.

Lynne Bairstow: 1:01:10

You hope more people be caring about innovation in Bitcoin. So thank you for being a leader in that you.