Jeremy & Rachel Thomas E50!

Long time friends, Jeremy & Rachel, visit with Courtney & Shawn to talk about challenges faced during their many moves across the South and even into Illinois, raising children, and keeping faith. These two families raised families and began their careers together in Natchitoches and have kept in touch over the miles and years.

They were great guests for the 50th episode!

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As always, thank you for listening!

#marriage #adventures #jesus #healing #children #husband #wife

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Uh Adventures in Marriage. Uh it is June, and um we're we're slowly keeping our pace for uh recording goal this year. Try to do two a month. I think we're what, two behind?

SPEAKER_06 0:31

Yeah, we're getting there.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

We're getting there. But uh this is a good one because um summer schedules, uh as you know, lots of people travel and do different things. And we have friends of ours who are about how many states away are you now you guys?

SPEAKER_03 0:44

We're 12 hours or whatever that is.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

12 hours, okay. So a lot of states. Yeah, a lot of states. Okay. Yeah, this is uh a great time to catch up with friends uh that we've known for how many years? Well not including not including you and I going to college together, because then that'll embarrass us, but we say how many years?

SPEAKER_06 1:02

At least 23, 24 years. Yeah, because we have to be. I look at we look at our oldest.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Yeah. Yeah. Uh we have uh Jeremy and Rachel Thomas with us down from Illinois.

SPEAKER_06 1:13

Um okay, what's the weather like? Is it much better than here? It's the 70s today, I think. Oh yeah, much better. Oh, actually though, this is a good week compared to last week. Last week we were in 95.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

No, it was it's it was wicked hot last week.

SPEAKER_06 1:27

Yeah. So anyway, we're glad to have you here. Uh they were driving down. So what you guys are visiting family?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Yes, we're visiting family on our way to spend a week ministering to ourselves and ministering to the youth um at a church camp that we have been serving for how many summers now?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

A bunch because we sent our girls there with y'all one summer.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

That's right. You did. So I think I started 2011 was my first year. I think I started 2015 and and we took your girls with us on in 2016. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Oh wow, that was a decade ago. Well, I throw mine on 10-year anniversary.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yeah, I have to do that.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Except for COVID and the year we moved to Illinois, we've been there every summer.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah.

unknown 2:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:09

So welcome back. Old Stomping Grounds, Louisiana, East Texas, the whole area, because you guys uh or Jeremy is from this area, and uh, we've known them long. Like you said, we've known Jeremy longer because we all went to Northwestern State together.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Jeremy and I marched the band. Uh we were part of uh you're you're a year ahead of me. You were got there a year before me, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:30

I got there in 93, I transferred.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

I got there in 94, yeah. And um we were part of uh the most amazing 50-piece trumpet lines. We were loud. We were loud and we were obnoxious. Thank you. You you took the word right out of my mouth. Gosh, we were so full of ourselves. But rightfully so, we were really good. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:53

And then uh we got to meet Rachel later. Jeremy graduated, moved on, did work, you know, as one of his first jobs, I guess, out of college, and met Rachel and then brought Rachel down to Louisiana, and then uh we got to meet and all became friends. And you know, this kind of ties into um something that we're gonna add on to this podcast later about about friendship. But yeah, you know, if you guys remember uh when we all were young couples and we lived in Nacketish together, um that was before kids. That was you know, life we had no money, but in some ways life was really simple, and uh friendships were just a big part.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Somehow that it complicates things.

SPEAKER_06 3:31

Friendships were just a big part of our lives back then. You know, uh what are we doing tonight? What are we gonna do this weekend? Are we gonna go work out? We used to work out all the time at the hospital, if y'all remember that. Up on the floor. We went to the hospital all the time. And or we'd go to go eat, we'd go to some podacos, or we'd go eat at Trailboss or whatever. And I know that for us as years have gone by, as we've had kids, as we've moved, as we've had jobs, had more responsibility, it's harder to maintain friendships. Maybe individual friendships or you know, a text here and there, but we don't get to have those relationships like we did like we used to. And and one is because we don't have the time. We're doing all these other things, and and we've just kind of have been lamenting that. And again, we'll get into that. But um, that was a big part, at least for us, that was a big part of our early marriage, our friendships. And yes, he had his friends and I had mine, but we did things as couples a lot. There were, you know, two or three couples, I remember the Morgans and you know, some other folks that we all had girls, and we all used to do things to go to dinner parties and you know, go to again, we all didn't have kids, but we all started having kids at the same time. And so uh you miss that. I miss that for me personally, because life is so hectic and it's so much for me about work. It's a a lot about work, but uh so it was a nice treat when you guys were coming down and we found out we would get to have you on the show because we've been talking about the lack of of that in our lives. We just don't have a lot of that anymore. We've got friends, but not those deep relationships like we used to have. When we say we did life together, I mean we were riding out, you know, power outages, hurricanes, you know, uh medical issues, you know, uh whatever. Moving, moving changing houses, uh moving waterbeds, moving waterbeds. We've moved your waterbed a couple of times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

I I forgave you for that about five years ago.

SPEAKER_06 5:30

Yeah. I still remember that. Uh just just things like that. So I don't know, I don't know if that if you guys you've moved way more than we have, so I don't know if you guys feel that or not.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Yeah, I I think so. I I I think that um you you know, one thing is that when you're younger, you're you're looking for a place to belong and things to do. And I'm gonna say this, is that you're later in life, when you start having children, it becomes about kids. And everything you do, whether it's ball games or uh whatever else that may be going on, you you you center your world around them. You know, I we jokingly have said, so what do we do now? When Jordan left the house and we finally had a kid, uh uh free house, what do you what do you do now? Yeah because it's it is different.

SPEAKER_06 6:24

And what do you call it? I don't think you call it empty nesting. What do you call it? Bird launching. Bird launching, yes. So you but so those who don't know, or you're in Illinois now, and uh you again you've moved around quite a bit for work, but both of your children don't live in Illinois. They're back here in Louisiana. So there's uh so you certainly all you know, we have kids, but they're still around us in this area. You guys don't. That's m 12 hours away, so it's very different.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Teach us how to launch them.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Teach us how to launch them.

SPEAKER_06 6:53

They're launched, they're just not launched like that.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

So we call it getting off the payroll. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 6:57

Are they off the payroll? No. Yeah, but we're working that direction. That's that complete bird launch. Bird has completely flown away. Yeah. So yeah, that that's been um They're out of the nest, but they're tethered. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So yeah, so those are sweet memories for us being in Nacadash and and then then having young children, and we all got to experience that together, and that was just a neat time for us, and things have you know, things have changed so much in uh the past decades. So it's nice to go back and be able to reminisce.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Uh what Courtney was referencing was uh we were gonna fold this conversation into a bigger conversation about the Four Burners theory. Are you are you familiar with that? It's um the idea is like you can be successful in your career, uh, your family, your other relationships, and your health. Uh you can be you can be reasonably successful in three of those. You can be really successful in two of those. You cannot be successful in all four of them at the same time. You know, it's the four burners on the on the stovetop. So, you know, which which three are you gonna have going, which two, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_06 8:05

Depending on what your priority is at that time. You just mentioned, Jeremy, you know, your focus became kids. So family was a big part of your focus. Or if work was a big part of your focus, and we're gonna move you know, we're gonna move for work.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

And I think I think for all four of us, um, with a lot of regard, it was it was family and profession, you know, because you all made sacrifices for your career uh to move and and there were some goals there and things like that. And we've certainly done some of that for my career and and around yours as well. Uh maybe we haven't moved, but we've certainly had that. And then, you know, if that theory proves true, then what what gives? You know, your health? Well, in some ways we've both wrestled with that as well. Yeah. And uh so, but I think relationships is one of those that that we've recently come to realize as we kind of put this out in front of us, that's what's missing. You know, that that's the one we've had to turn down so that we could cook in the other areas. Whereas when we were younger, that was probably way at the top. Profession wasn't that big of a deal because we were, you know low on the totem pole. Yeah, we were all starting to get the money.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Baseline introductory jobs, and it was just do we have enough money to pay the bills?

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Well, and I think early family, we were able to piggyback that with the relationship side. Yeah, family. Because yeah, we we we all had kids at the same time. Yes. And so we I I I I remember sitting in our house playing games, uh, and we were supposed to be watching the girls. Oh, video games? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

And so uh uh we'll leave albums. Yeah, great times, great times.

SPEAKER_06 9:42

Oh, to go back. Yeah, or or you know, birthday parties. I mean, there are pictures of all of us at birthday parties or Christmas celebrations and even you know, went to church together.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Two or three years we hosted like a fourth of July party. I don't know why, but fourth of July is kind of a thing. Yeah, because why not? Because why not?

SPEAKER_06 10:00

Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, golly, we don't do anything like that anymore. Yeah. Because I'm usually working.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

We have some younger couples that that we hang around with some now that do that sort of stuff. We never host. You know, we used to host all the time, but we never do it now.

SPEAKER_06 10:16

It's it's always people to walk away.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

We show up late, yeah, eat their food, go home, go leave.

SPEAKER_06 10:22

Thanks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

We bring a little maturity to the conversation though, right? Sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 10:29

That's right. So good, let's jump back a little bit and start more from the beginning. Do you guys want to share anything about your story? We've referenced, you know, some jobs and moving around a little bit. Do y'all want to talk a little bit about your story and what do you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Um it's been an adventure to say the least, in that I have taught in five different states, and I've taught every grade level from three and four-year-old preschool all the way up through third grade full-time. And then um I've been afforded the luxury of not having to teach full-time in the classroom now that Jeremy is in a position that is uh making us very financially stable. And so I get to substitute and love what I do because I get to go in and I teach. It's not all the other things that teachers talk about with paperwork and conferences and grading, and uh it's rekindled my joy uh in being an educator and being a professional.

SPEAKER_06 11:33

That's great. And how long have you guys been married? Twenty-six years. Okay. And you're both from different states. I think that's a unique part of your story. So where are y'all from originally?

SPEAKER_00 11:43

I'm from East Texas. And I'm from southwestern Ohio.

SPEAKER_06 11:46

Yeah. So that's a big part of your story because family in different areas plus moving. And so how many is it has it been five states that you've lived in, or how many places have y'all lived in? Just Texas alone. I can't keep I can't remember everywhere in Texas. Goodness gracious. They're drawing.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

They're drawing in the air. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a it's four for me, but Rachel gets an extra because of the life.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

I started in Ohio. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:10

Yeah. So that yeah, and and just in Texas, there were multiple moves within that state. So yeah, that's that's a lot of transition that can be, you know, uh emotionally hard. I mean, everywhere you go, it's probably got a different culture, different educational system, different way of doing things. So you're always having to readjust different school, different church, different whatever it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

And I wish it was, I wish I could claim that I had some master plan uh that it it worked out that way. You know, I I had this idea I was gonna move from here to point A to point B, but it it's not a straight line. It doesn't really work out that way.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

And it's when opportunities, you know, when the door opens, you you decide whether or not you're gonna take it or not.

SPEAKER_06 12:50

Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

And well, tell people what you're doing that brought you to Illinois.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Well, I am the president for community college, Blackhawk College, that's in Moline, Illinois. So that's home of John Deere. And uh heard of that. Yeah, yeah. A few people have it's also uh, and most people have or have not, it's also home of the Rock Island Arsenal. Um it is that is the area where they make all the bullets for the military. Yeah. And so it's the oldest and only manufacturing that the military has in the country. And so um, so very manufacturing, very blue-collar area. Um not what most people think when they think Illinois. This is this looks more like East Texas than it looks like Chicago. Yeah. Um lot of snow. Uh we do get snow, yeah. I've seen some of the text in the photos.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

You get a lot of snow. I personally enjoy having all the seasons back that I grew up with in the Midwest.

SPEAKER_05 13:47

So you actually have a fall? I get real falls. Not the fake fall that we have here.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

I and I've said it lots of times and to different people and places. Uh if it wasn't for the food, I'd have left Louisiana over her schizophrenic weather. You know, well, we missed the food. We missed the food. Let me just say that. You know, that's why I thoroughly enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

When they claim that pepper is hot, black pepper. That's hilarious. You know, that tells you how everything is seasoned, which it's not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:15

Like pepper. Let's get excited about pepper.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

In fact, we've got into smoking our own meats so that I could have my own. So I could season it.

SPEAKER_06 14:24

Can you buy Tony's there? You can. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

You can. Little containers. Little tiny eight-ounce cans. Yeah, we usually buy that sort of thing when we're down here.

SPEAKER_06 14:33

Yeah, you have to go get all your stuff. I'm sure you have a grocery list of all the things that you need to buy.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Pay taxes on it when it crosses. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:42

So what kind of um, I mean, you guys have a unique journey, a unique adventure. So what kind of things have y'all learned along the way that have been important for you as a family, you as a couple? What have y'all learned?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Um friendships like yours are rare and special. I remember one time we were moving and I was desperately rushing to pack the house, and you were like, Let's meet in Shreveport and I will take the girls, I will take them to the water park, I will keep them for two days, and you can just go back and knock out all the business.

SPEAKER_06 15:18

You must have been in East Texas. Yes. Okay. I barely remembered that, but then I remembered it because we met at that blue or that one on the I-20. We met at the water park, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

And those things that you have done for us over the years, um supporting our oldest with her internship before she graduated last year. Um having you as a support system because we know the girls are in Louisiana and we are in Illinois. And if something comes up, we know you are a call or a text away and that you're gonna be on top of things to help us out in any way we can you can.

SPEAKER_06 15:58

Yeah, yeah. We can get there a lot quicker than you can. So nothing's gonna happen though, they're all good, right? We can we know too many people in Louisiana to look out for them. But um I think that uh friendships like that that can stand the test of time are rare because you know, people have great intentions, but people move, they get busy, life gets in the way, you can name all the things. And I think I think in general people have good intentions, but I think that's the word. It's intentional. You have to work at it, you can't just ignore it for 15 years and expect and and and the people can. They can pick up and have a conversation and and have a wonderful time visiting, but that connection uh has been has been important in our relationship, and and we have found that when we have moved, and I wonder if you have too, when you find people, you're not with family, but you find people wherever you are that become your family, like family, uh, to help because life can be hard, and sometimes you need the extra person in your life just to help, or you know, a friend or a uh someone to have dinner with or someone who will call and check on you, whatever that may be. I know we have found that moving here.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

It yeah, it's uh I think it's one of the reasons that we felt uh at home in Washtop Parish was because we we felt like we found uh kind of a tribe to belong to and we saw um uh a community to raise family in and a mission field. And so yeah, absolutely. That was part of it. Uh you know, it it y'all y'all kind of had, I don't know, how stated was as a family, how stated, uh talked about was the uh you know, one of the things I think you were upwardly minded on your on your professional career, Jeremy, was you know, to to be a to be the president of a college or university. So was that when when did those conversations become like intentional obvious? I mean, because obviously you're working the system, you're you're you know, as we've all had experience doing, achieving, growing, that kind of thing, but when did did y'all have outward conversations to say, hey, you know, for us to do this, it's gonna require X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Yeah, I I can recall early in my career I had approached a VP at Northwestern, because I was working at Northwestern, uh, about so what do I do if I want to move up? And I was told to move out.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Um, and I I will tell you, I was really mad that day. It was not something I took well. Uh what do you mean? I'm working my tail off. Uh I can't move up right here. But but it's actually a true statement. It's it's uh it's really hard to move up quickly within an organization because there's only one top job. So if you've got if you've got a bunch of uh employees and you've got several of you that are doing a really good job, only one of you is gonna make it. And it's just it it's not negative, it's just it's the fact. It's it's the way it's the reality, but it is the reality. And so um, you know, if you think about the late 2000s, uh all the colleges in Louisiana were really hit hard uh funding-wise. That's really sort of when the downturn happened within the state budgets. And so we started looking elsewhere. Now, when I decided to step into upper administration, that's when we really had a real conversation. So the first qu conversation was, well, do we want to move home? And it's funny I'm using air quotes for that because uh we consider we consider this part uh of Louisiana home for us. Um but because that's us as a young couple, um, but home for me was East Texas. So I mean just a couple hours away, so we're not talking about halfway around the world. Right. Um, but you have uh when I decided to become a dean, I Rachel and I had a conversation. I said, I need you to understand what this means. President changes, sometimes these people get let go.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

You know, uh uh boards get mad at somebody, sometimes those get let go, and that's the danger we run at this point.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Those who don't know, there's a high level of politics involved in Yeah, absolutely. Uh academic administration.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

Yeah, yeah. It's it's not always who you know, but it doesn't hurt.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Um you know, it in my daily job, I I just did a podcast where uh we were talking about so what is what does a president do? Yeah. And I said, you know, if you were to ask that question 50 years ago, it was they're the senior most academic in the in the room. And then it became more like a superintendent.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Yeah, you're you're nowhere near a classroom, are you? No, no, they're not gonna let me anywhere near that anymore. If you go in the classroom, like seven things had to go wrong, right? That's correct.

SPEAKER_06 20:37

And if you notice in other colleges and things, I'm talking about Louisiana, a lot of them are not academics. They're not they're not even academics, you know, which I think was so historically you were always an academic. Now they're more leadership, administrator, you know, supervisor skills.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Well, it and it makes sense because probably the two biggest things that people hire me for um is gonna be fundraising.

SPEAKER_06 20:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

And it's gonna be politics. And that's actually the latest one. You're the chief politician.

SPEAKER_06 21:04

Well, you're in the lobby.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

What's that?

SPEAKER_06 21:06

You're in the lobby.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Oh, absolutely you are. I spend just as much time in Springfield sometimes than I do in my own office. So I mean, it's uh it's just the nature of the beast. It's what you have to do because everybody else is at the table, so you have to do that. But these are the conversations we had to have. You know, moving to uh Illinois, don't I don't know anybody.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Uh I take that back. I knew one guy. Uh there was a um, there was a gentleman I had worked with in Texas, and when I went to Oklahoma, we had an opening, and so I asked if he wanted to come up and apply. So he came to Oklahoma. Well then he went to Illinois first. And he called me and said, Hey Jeremy, the president's job's open. I said, I'm not moving to Illinois. You can forget it. And uh he worked me and so now there there's there's several of us now.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah. Yeah. He tells you there's rednecks up there too. There are. Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_06 21:58

There are rednecks everywhere. Okay. So Rachel, what was that like? I mean, yeah, that's where you have to come to a point of like you have mutual agreement. Okay, is this what we're doing? Is this our future?

SPEAKER_00 22:08

The first conversation that we had when we were um Brian College Station, Brenham, it was really tough because I had always had this idea in my head that the path was going to be slow. And it really accelerated faster than I had expected when we went from you were a uh enrollment.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Yeah. A director.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

A director. And then it jumped to dean, and then it was vice president, and then it was provost. And then the next thing you know, we're in a pandemic, and the president says, peace out, I'm retiring. Here you go, be interim president.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Like and and all the time your girls are hitting different stages. Like, like, because that that seems to accelerated the world for us is to watch our kids change so much into different adults. And that happened while y'all are changing states or or within the same state, changing residencies and and occupation or you know, employment.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

You know, the the first few times we moved the girls, I don't even think they really noticed. I I mean the they they say I don't even remember back that far. In fact, we had this conversation on the driveover today, but um i it it shocked Rachel and I when we decided to leave Lufkin, Texas and move to Bryan College Station to work for Blynn. Um we we had made the decision, we didn't include the girls in that decision. And so that was really an adult decision. And the re the response we got was so uh I mean, just mad.

SPEAKER_06 23:51

More than you were anticipating.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Oh, it was no idea.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

No, we we when they left the room because they both stormed out, but we we were uh we were shocked. And so uh the every move after that, we at least had a conversation as a family. Yeah. So we we changed that. I I guess they aged up further than we thought they were.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

That accelerates that whole experience too, like what you're talking about. It it it was not a slow process, and then you're having all these changes with your kids and your family dynamic and everything else. So yeah.

unknown 24:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Difficult.

SPEAKER_06 24:27

And and you know, good for your kid, because we say it about our kids too, good for them for being independent thought and having their own opinions, but then that really makes it tough because then you're trying to, okay, I've got to decide what's best for my career, long-term, financial, you know, growth. How am I gonna grow into the position I ultimately want to be in? But yet, you know, I I want to listen to my children or I want to do, you know, but it's hard to balance all of that, you know. Right. Yeah. Even even us I don't know where they get it from. You know, moving churches and things like that. I remember uh it was a Mother's Day about three years ago, and we let Emily and Cooper know, maybe Peyton, but Emily and Cooper for sure that you were gonna move churches because he'd been having these conversations on the side, no kids involved, because didn't know if any was gonna land anywhere or not. So we went ahead and told him, and Emily like fell out on the we were we were kayaking on Mother's Day, and she like fell out on the ground and she was like, No, I don't want you to, because it would mean change to her church, change to her normalcy, her routine, and we we worked through some of that.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah, that was just across town, that wasn't a different state or anything. You know, that's right.

SPEAKER_06 25:36

Yeah, it was just across the river and into a you know different city, but just a few minutes away, and that was a big deal. So yeah. Uh even just anything life-changing, they still feel like they have an opinion or say in what we do what we do. They're not paying the bills though, so that holds the key to the decision making.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 25:54

Yeah. So, but anyway, uh, yeah, I mean, it it's just been uh it's I think we're both in similar situations that careers have taken us to different places. We haven't traveled as extensively as you all have, but we are where we are at because of Sean's career, and we had to make that decision. Um it's similar, not exactly, but at the time the United Methodist Church was itinerant, and so when you became that, we knew itineracy was something that was going to be a part of our lives, and we hopped around several places in the state.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Going all the way back to the time where we're you know, Nacadish, which y'all had just left. Did y'all leave y'all left before us or after us?

SPEAKER_06 26:35

No, they left before us.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'all were gone when okay, yeah. Yeah. And then I went into full-time ministry.

SPEAKER_06 26:40

Yeah, because you hadn't even gone into ministry full-time when um I think you were just working at the church. And then you went into the uh other career of accounting or something, weren't you? For an engineering firm and then for a hospital. Yeah, we've gone up the full circle of the city.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Y'all have to be gone a couple of years, I guess.

SPEAKER_06 26:54

Um yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and so we then, you know, when he decided to, are we gonna accept this career path? Because it wasn't like you were already in the career path. Are we gonna are we going to do this? Or we're gonna jump into this career path. You have to know one of the things is itineracy. That was one of the discussions we had to have. And we and we knew it'd be in the the state, but we didn't know where, and so we ping ponged around a little bit and then landed here. Long story short, we're not united Methodist anymore. We don't we're not itinerant. So, and we control if we want to move, not because someone has told us to.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Mostly.

SPEAKER_06 27:30

Yeah, not because someone has told us to.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

So I suppose the church can meet one day and decide that right, right. Well, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:38

Right. So, yeah, those are just uh tough decisions and and along the way, you know, what friendships or what burners are you gonna have going? And uh obviously career is an important part of it because that's why you're moving. You're you know, you're not moving several states away and not putting career at the top was one of the main burners. So, how do you balance all the other things? So we've been studying that, we've been trying to reflect on that. I think for us it's a a good season to reflect on. I know you guys we haven't even gotten to catch up personally. We we said hello, talk for a few minutes, and they literally drove straight in. Um, but you know, we've been in a season of uh just reflecting, especially with Sean's health and things like that, and what what's important and what are we gonna focus on. I will say I think it's safe to say health is gonna be one of those top burners that is burning. Heat is being turned up. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

So what what um I'm curious? So so looking back 26 and a half years ago, right? Uh we talked a little bit about some of the focus that was going on then with family and friendships and things like that. What so in the last six years, what kind of changes have y'all experienced since you've had a little bit of stability? Um, you know, what kind of like because I I obviously, Rachel, you you've gotten to be a little more free and rediscover the joy of your career teaching, you know. And Jeremy, you you've had to throw a lot into the politicking and the the organizing and everything else, but also what about your relationship? Where where have y'all what has this last six years allowed you to kind of rediscover and do for one another?

SPEAKER_00 29:14

The last six years.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

So because that's how long you've been at um No, I've only been there three years. Three years. Three years. What did you say earlier about six?

SPEAKER_06 29:22

Well, COVID was six years ago. Oh, that's what it was. Okay. So yeah, you've been in Illinois three years.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yeah, we were in Oklahoma for five. That's what it was. Yeah. We've been here three.

SPEAKER_06 29:32

And I remember that because Rachel came and spent some time here uh with us. You were gone. I think you were at a camp or something. I was and Rachel came and spent some time here with me around her birthday, which her birthday was just a few days ago. And she I remember she had all her books and her notes and was trying to figure out how to move Jeremy's cars and all the all the planning. That's it's very detailed, all the details that go with that. You know, you don't make just a multi-state move.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

More stuff. Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

There's a fine balance between what are we really holding on to, what do we really need to move, and what can we donate? What can we rehome with somebody else? What can we repurpose? Yeah. So so take Sean's question, but make it the past three years.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Three years, sorry. Yeah. Especially because your girls have, you know, flown for about nine months.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Yeah. With no kid in the house.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

I've had a great opportunity to do a lot of self-reflection upon myself. Um the Maya Angelou quote, when you know better, you do better. I looked back on things that I did as a parent, as a wife, as a teacher, and I was like, okay, that's something I'm really proud of. Oh, that's something it was definitely a life lesson. And so I have spent a lot of time working on myself to grow into being a better human being for myself. And then in turn, that is a benefit for Jeremy because I think that I have worked hard to become a better wife, especially in the last 10 months.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Yeah, yeah, I agree. One thing that we made very clear when we chose the job in Illinois was this was a family affair. Um I can't do what I do unless they get to go with me. Or so if we have an event, um, and it was Jordan at the time because Bailey was already out of the house, um, you know, she got to go. Uh, there was no if she wanted to, if it was possible, then she attended. So, you know, Rachel and Jordan both, and now just Rachel, um, if I have an event, she goes. If I fly to DC, she has the option of going with me. Um, and it's just because that it allows us to do that. She attends events that I can't uh now. So there are times where I'm double booked because we have multiple campuses. Right. And so um if if I can't go, Rachel goes for me. So we and some of the stuff that allows us to like me better. Yeah, well, yeah, that's not it's understandable. I get that.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

We understand.

SPEAKER_06 32:19

Yeah, so has this been an opportunity?

SPEAKER_01 32:20

I also understand what that means because there are folks who love, you know, when Courtney's able to to come and do church stuff, they're like, ooh, you know, it's great. They like to see her because you know she's fun.

SPEAKER_06 32:32

Have I ever been accused of being fun? Not really.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

It is fun because I'm in in this context, you you get to not be as list making and all the other things. You know, so yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

It's fun for them.

SPEAKER_06 32:46

Well, good. I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, oh yeah, people love it.

SPEAKER_06 32:50

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

Well Well, and I think that's more Rachel's people now. I mean, we're we're we're in the Midwest, which is where she grew up.

SPEAKER_06 32:58

She's from the she's going back to the motherland. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

I'm the outsider, I'm the one person who has now moved in. It there's not a week that goes by that somebody doesn't say, Oh, you're not from here, are you? And by the way, I st I have started to go, yeah, I grew up on 79th Avenue. You know, it's uh I just been more than that. I just can't help it. Why would you? Yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_06 33:18

So I mean you guys are in a new season.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 33:21

Yeah, you know, fairly new career-wise, you getting to really explore more of your joy, um, the kids not being there. And so that's an opportunity for the two of you to figure out, okay, what's this look like? What is our our next our next act look like, whatever that is.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

So I listened to the episodes with Chris McLean that you did without Courtney.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

And you were talking about what you did to counsel couples before they were getting married.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Oh yeah, yeah, we sure did.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

And I took notes on that, and then I built us a little marriage retreat program for lack of a better term. Yeah. And um, we took the opportunity on the absolutely coldest weekend of all winter in Illinois. Which is seriously cold up there. It was negative 40. School got canceled because wind chill.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Wind chill.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Oh, still.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

I still don't understand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

School got canceled because buses don't run when the diesel turns to slush. That doesn't compute for us, so we don't even know what that is.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

We had one, you know, it it and I I know you'll understand this. One thing people don't realize, because I have a foundation that people can donate to. Um I we donate thousands back every year. So as I'm making money from the college, we also give money back. Well, one of those it was uh a retreat. And so it it was a B that somebody had put into um uh this auction and we had won. So this was the we picked the weekend to go to this beautiful lovely cottage automatically. When it snowed.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Lovely.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

But I took some of the components from that. We had already done love languages years ago.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

And so we did you redo them by any chance?

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Actually, I hadn't, but maybe that's a good thing to revisit.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

They shift a little bit sometimes. Yeah. Not not always, but sometimes, you know, they they change a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

That's that's hot.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

But um the one with the 18 different uh talking points to hierarchy of your priorities.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Yeah, yeah. How'd that go?

SPEAKER_00 35:37

It was somewhat surprising, but not quite so surprising. Like the top six, the middle six, and the bottom six were basically the same. We would just have a couple switched here and there.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

And so we had in-depth conversations. Well, why did you make that two and why do I have it as a four? And and he was like, and he would give his reasoning behind whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

And so we got to see the relationship of why your two was his four, and so that was yeah, a great eye-opening experience.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

And then we um he had done a um the disc inventory. And then I took the Enneagram and I kind of combined the two together to look at the similarities and the differences. And it's definitely a yin-yang thing where his strengths are my weaknesses and my weak you know, my strengths are his weaknesses. So it's now that we can see that, like you kind of know it from living together all the time. Yeah, you sort of knew it in the past. But to like really see it on paper, it was like, oh.

SPEAKER_06 37:00

Yeah. And we're we find we're still learning, right? We're still learning about ourselves. Uh, I did see this thing on Instagram the other day. Uh, it was a couple who were married like 60 plus years, and someone said, you know, how what was the secret to it? And it was that I loved it, was specifically a man answering about the woman. I loved her through her priorities at in her 20s, are not her priorities in her 40s or not her priorities in her 60s, and learning that I'm gonna love her through all of those. But we just did one um that was called 16 personalities, it's free. And uh well, my co-worker had to take it for a master's program he's studying uh right now, and so he shared it with several of us, and it'll give you the four letters an I or an E. Are you introverted or extroverted, and then it'll go through some others, and it was interesting. Like we we both I took it and it was so spot on about like some of your personality and and relationships and why you feel the way you do, or things like that. So I sent it to Sean and he took it, and we laughed because it created this little cartoon for your letters, and you can describe you can describe your your cartoon that came out for you.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Um and it's it's it's I think a recycled, repackaged version of Myers Briggs. So if you've ever done Myers Briggs.

SPEAKER_06 38:15

But it's super easy, super quick, and the information the content's great.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

The the image and and they have they have little well-done detail on it. The w the one image, as it talked about me being an introvert thinker, kind of in my head, was um the the characters laying on his belly or something, looking at something, trying to figure something out. There's all kinds of gadgets and books and things around, and then there's a calendar that you see over here, and behind him is standing his wife, and on the calendar it says February 14th.

SPEAKER_06 38:45

And she's like that.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

She's just lost in his, you know, he's just like in the universe wherever his little mind is.

SPEAKER_06 38:50

All his interest, all his little rabbit holes he loves to go into. And the wife is standing back there, like, really? You don't see what day it is? Hello. Remember me? Yeah, look at me, hello. Yeah, so we laughed about that one. So if you guys get a chance, take take that one.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

But what you did that that's great, because you took time to just say, Okay, where are we? You know, what are the things? Did did the um did the the seeing it in paper or putting it, you know, just speaking it out loud, did they give you any insight into maybe points of conflict or or ways in which you can say, you know, that's such an easy win for me. Did it make any wins obvious to you? Like, like now I understand him better or I understand her better, because because you know, we intuit a lot as we build a relationship, but until we take time to be intentional, we don't say, now I understand.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

So, real quick, one thing I will say is that that I walked away from it is that I I think after 26 years, you make a lot of assumptions. Yeah. You know, you you think you know each other so well, and whether you you you verbalize this or not, I think you go through and go, I know how you're going to respond to this before you respond. And I will tell you as a guy too.

SPEAKER_06 40:03

I'll say it. You don't, I knew you were thinking it.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Well, I was trying to listen to Jeremy speaking with me.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Yeah, he looked my direction. He didn't look that way. Um we have to stay together on this. Yeah. Uh but it it it's, you know, she she's really big into me because I'll ask what's wrong. And she'll go, please stop doing that. Can you just can we talk this out rather than just you know immediately assuming something was wrong? I think we did it in the car today.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Um but uh I learned that that phrase, that question, what's wrong, was a trigger for you. For me. Okay. Like, I know that I like to learn as much as I can about something so that I can try to better understand things. I went down a deep rabbit hole um trying to better understand ADHD a couple years ago. I had had been at my wits end at being a parent to an ADHD child, and I was like, okay, I've got to put myself in her brain and figure out what I can do to quit making her life miserable. How can I be a better mom to support her? And I have used those skills also in our marriage. But I also figured out that what's wrong is a trigger because while I was looking for answers, trying to fix, he's doing the exact same thing. He's seeing that there's a need and he wants to fix it. And I shouldn't see that as something that should upset me and make me angry that should make me feel better because he recognizes there's something and he wants to help.

SPEAKER_06 41:54

Well, and isn't that the uh I think that's true for both male and females, husbands and wives. In our own ways, we want to try to fix whatever is hurting or making them upset or angry or aggravated, whatever it is, uh usually your your spouse wants because they want the best for you. And we we remind ourselves each other of that often. I want the best for you. I believe you want the best for me. Sometimes it's hard to remember that, but I'm sure it's the same for you all. And so, you know, in your own way, you want to fix, well, you're mad about something, how can I fix it? Well, and that may not be the what he wants to hear or what you want to hear, but that's the way we're showing love and and the way we're showing, you know, how much we care about somebody. I don't want to see you sad, I don't want to see you upset, I don't want to see you frustrated. Doesn't matter if it had anything to do with me. So what we were talking about is that when we love someone, our spouse, male or female, we want the best for them. We want them to be okay. I don't want to see you upset, I don't want to see you frustrated, sad, hurt, whatever it is. So in our own way, we try to fix that. How can I fix it? Tell me what I can do, and and a lot of times we fix it in a way that makes sense to us, not the person who's hurting. And so, you know, sometimes that can be met with instead of thank you, but here's what I need, it's more leave me alone. Don't talk to me. Why are you trying to fix me? And you get met with anger or because you're really you're mad about whatever is going on.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

The reason you need fixing, so you know, quote unquote, is you're already not in a great place. Yeah. And so now you came along and you didn't meet my actual need, you met my what you perceive to be my need, and yeah, we cause conflict.

SPEAKER_06 43:40

That is a that has been an issue for us over the years. You know, he'll get angry. And I'm just gonna use you as the example, you'll get angry about something, and I can tell you're angry, but I'm not quite sure what you're angry about.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

I'm fine. I'm fine.

SPEAKER_06 43:51

But you know, that that's usually the female, that's the female phrase. I'm fine, fine. Everything's fine.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah, that's true. But what's wrong with you? Nothing.

SPEAKER_06 43:58

But when I know, but you know I've Had to learn over the years, and it's a fine dance, it's not easy, you know. Like what I want to do is like, oh, he's in a bad mood. Oh, sucks for him. Bye. And I leave. That's not what he wants or what he needs, though he can't communicate to me what he wants or needs. He wants me around my presence, but he doesn't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

It took me too much. Not until he's ready to talk about it. It took me a while to figure that out. And I think during during that period of grief I went through after the accident of the lake in 2014, you would come to me and say, What? Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. I'm like, that would just turn me inside out.

SPEAKER_06 44:36

Oh, he'd be so he'd be so mad about it. He'd be angry.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yeah. Well, and and anger was what what came out, but it was really fear, sadness, all those other things. And and so have y'all figured out like those ways to approach each other, you know, in you know, 26 years later, intentionally, it when things aren't great, or when you're tired or you're stressed, or whatever, or you're worried about the kids, or what you know, how how is it how's that dance gone for y'all?

SPEAKER_03 45:06

It it's funny to listen to you, Sean, because one thing I will say that I I'm a little bit different is that I will tell you when I'm not in a good mood.

SPEAKER_04 45:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

And so it's it's a please don't mess with me right now. I need to so we don't fight. I I will, but I always joke that the girls would have to come and poke me one more time. It's like they don't believe it. And then I explode and oh my god, how dad just lost, you know, he's always so mad. He's really mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so uh one thing I will say that I think we're doing better in the last nine months or so is we're being patient with each other again. Um I I think when you get so busy in your life, I think patience goes out for each other. You you you spend it on the kids, you spend it on others, you know, your your extended family. Um you know, I I think we're we're giving each other grace that we've not been willing to give or not had time to give each other in in quite some time. So I that's that's my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

That's I wholeheartedly agree. There's so much more grace. We can step back and pause instead of just having an immediate response.

SPEAKER_06 46:18

Well, and for a lot of couples who have wor careers and families, it's survival. You're in survival mode and you're doing what you have to do to get through the day, and that doesn't leave a lot for one another. And we, you know, the that's kind of the whole point of one of the reasons we started this was just to try to offer hope to couples to to find a way to make that time for each other.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Just to think about it, talk about it, encourage, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:42

Be intentional, which is a be a big, big part of a common theme of what we say through so much of the podcast. So uh I know that we are about to wrap up because these people want to go eat and we want to feed them, and so we're glad they're in Louisiana. And uh we just want to take a moment to say thank you. I think the conversation was great and went much longer than I had hoped for today. Yeah, I mean it's just good stuff that we got to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

And yeah, I'm gonna say one more thing because uh I love what you were saying earlier, Rachel, about having to take the time and look back over things. And uh I wanted to ask you, are you finding a way to pour that in other people too? Not because obviously those aren't all classroom lessons.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

Right. I do have a handful of younger teachers over the course of my career over the past probably six or seven, eight, nine years that are starting to get in their stride. And for instance, one of them part of the reason we're headed south is we went to a friend, uh colleague who got married on Saturday. And so talking and supporting and encouraging her along the way, not just as a teacher, but also as a young adult going into marriage. I I take little things that I have learned and go this is just my two cents, take it for what it's worth, but I think this would be beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

That's beautiful. Yeah, I was I was hoping you'd say something like that. That's good.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

You know, one thing that's since you brought up the the wedding is it's really uh God's blessed us in a way that uh we our family's grown every time we moved. And so, you know, we we we came from Illinois but went to Oklahoma first. And we had um about a dozen people with us at dinner last night who came out just because they wanted to come see us. Uh men in the church we were attending uh had lunch with me yesterday. Yeah, and so um, you know, so we we had that. We were here seeing you guys in Louisiana. Next week we'll be at camp with our our Texas family. And so we we've been really blessed that the our our family's not we it's not changed, it's just grown.

SPEAKER_07 49:02

Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

We we we understand that, and we've we've experienced some of that same thing. So it's good when God does that because it truly is a blessing and it reminds you, like wherever we go, He's already there. You know, he goes before us.

SPEAKER_06 49:16

So I'm glad you've made the time to do those tricks. Thank you. That you have taken the time because that's important too.

SPEAKER_03 49:23

And I left out we we come to see the girls too.

SPEAKER_06 49:24

Well, yeah, yeah. Who they need they need they need dinner and they need, you know, they need a tank of gas, need to hang stuff, bring your tools with you. All the all the mom and dad lit the lists. I'm sure she had her mom and dad list ready. I'll wait till they come in and I'll get all my things done. So that that's good too. That's important. We'll get thank you guys for uh being our friends for over 25 years. And uh we want to can't wait to see.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Yeah, we were. She reminded me all the way over here. We were young. We were.

SPEAKER_06 49:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

We were the cool people. I was never cool. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

We were cooler. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:00

And uh in our own minds.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

In our own minds, yeah. I'd much rather be in this phase than so I like this. But the ignorance of 25 years ago wasn't bad. I mean, there was a certain bliss in that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

Well, I as the girls have brought boys home, I asked Rachel, I said, I don't understand how you ever wanted to date one of us. I just so true.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

We were idiots. Oh my goodness. Thank you. Thank you all for loving us. Oh, it's a great way to end it.

SPEAKER_06 50:26

Y'all were idiots. It's a great way to end it. Well, I can't wait to see what next phases of life look like for us, for you, for our children. And just excited to see what the seasons bring. And um, you know, maybe one day that brings you back closer this way. So, you know, can't wait to see what happens. So thank you. And thank you, Rachel, for being a loyal listener. I think if we had a badge for maybe our most loyal listener, Rachel would be in the top five.

SPEAKER_07 50:52

I love it.

SPEAKER_06 50:52

So we do appreciate it. And she actually remembers stuff that she says. Oh, I know. Listen to it.

SPEAKER_03 50:57

She referenced it. Yeah, I know. So thank you. She always remembers.

SPEAKER_06 51:01

Yes, we we love it. So, and actually, that's a fact. We will celebrate that this is our 50th episode. I believe it's our 50th episode, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Yeah, somewhat which way we'll splice it. This will be our 50th.

SPEAKER_06 51:13

Yeah, so it's the 50th episode, which is a a milestone for us that we had set as a goal. So uh we're excited to get to that. I forgot about that. We're excited to get to share that with you all. So, all right, let's go, let's go enjoy some good food with them and enjoy their company. So, thank you guys for listening and uh come along on the adventure with us for the next time.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Have a good one.