Beachside Banter w/Bee

42 Disney Trips and a Digital Empire: Paul Gowder on Magic, Community, and Lifestyle Entrepreneurship

• Bee Davis • Season 2 • Episode 9

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🎙️ In this episode

Bee sits down with Paul Gowder—a man who's been to Disney World 42 times, co-founded PowWows.com, and is basically the King of Culture Meets Theme Park. From live-streaming Native American powwows to sailing on 24 Disney cruises, Paul shares how intentional travel (and a deep appreciation for both tradition and imagination) can shape your life, your family, and even your business.

You’ll hear about:

  • The origin story of PowWows.com and how it's changing cultural access for everyone
  • Tips for attending your first powwow with respect and confidence
  • The best ways to experience Disney (and why it’s not just for kids anymore)
  • The truth about Disney cruises vs other cruise lines
  • How online communities (like cruise Facebook groups!) can deepen your trip connections
  • What paradise means when you build your business around family and travel

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Speaker 1:

hey, hey, hey everyone. It is another episode of beachside banter with b. I'm b davis, your host. Um, today I am hanging out with paul goeder is that how you say your last name, paul?

Speaker 2:

That's it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, awesome, I got it right. You guys, I never. I never get it right, so I'm so glad. Anyways, paul has been to Disney World 42 times Gosh, I was going to say it backwards 42 times. That's absolutely insane. By the time his daughter graduated high school. Some of us are lucky if we can even get to go one or two times. So I'm really hoping that Paul's going to have a lot of tips and stuff that we can kind of pick his brain and hopefully we can at least go more than once. So, paul, go ahead, take it away, tell us about yourself and why you're here.

Speaker 2:

Thanks so much. I appreciate you being here. And cautionary tale for all parents out there if you take your daughter 40-something times before she graduates high school, here's what happens she moves away and she goes to work for Disney World. So that's where we are now. She has left South Carolina, she is no longer here. She is working at Disney World, living her dream, and we're going down to visit her this weekend. We leave Sunday, so it's all good.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, awesome.

Speaker 2:

Cautionary tale. But yeah, I'm Paul Gowder, I'm from Lexington, south Carolina, and we kind of built our lifestyle on travel and I have a great community over on powwowscom that we now are. That's now our full-time job. Before that, I worked in the state of South Carolina and kind of been been doing this online marketing thing as a side hustle for 20 something years.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, online marketing I hear. So I'll be honest with you. I went to get my bachelor's degree not to like right as soon as the pandemic hit, and I got my degree in online marketing and digital marketing. All that and it's man, it's a lot of work, and so that's kind of how it propelled my career here, so I can totally understand how I could kind of do the same for you. So what made you decide that you wanted to be an online marketer?

Speaker 2:

It was never something I set out to do. I literally built the website that I have now. I built a couple. It was back in 1996. I was in grad school. I actually got a master's degree in being a government bureaucrat and that's what I did for my career. But I was just playing with HTML.

Speaker 2:

I like to tinker with computers and growing up. That's one of the things I love doing. I like to tinker with computers and growing up that's one of the things I love doing. So I was just doing the same thing when HTML came along. I just built some web pages. You can see the Mandalorian mask back there and there's an R2 back there somewhere.

Speaker 2:

I was a Star Wars fan and so I built a web page about Star Wars and particularly about Star Wars toy collecting, and what you can't see is like my vintage toys are right here, all of my original figures. I was big, big Star Wars toy fan, um, you know, being a kid of the eighties, um, seventies and eighties, that's what we did, right. So I built that webpage. And then at the time in grad school I also had some friends that were just introducing me to powwows and teaching me the songs and the regalia, and you know and all of that. So I was same thing. I was like, oh, let me, I'll just write a couple things here. This is what I saw this weekend. Here's some cool stuff about powwows. Well, one took off, one didn't.

Speaker 2:

In 1996, disney had not bought Star Wars. There were no more movies. It was just weird geeks like me in their college dorm rooms or whatever looking at Star Wars. So that one kind of sat where it was. But the Native American one kind of took off and it was the community. It was the people wanting to connect, wanting to be with each other that really propelled us forward. So it was years before we really figured out that it could be a business or it needed to be a business when we actually started having bills. So it's not something I set out to be. It was kind of an accident. I say I'm an accidental entrepreneur. I knew that I probably would have done something entrepreneurial-like, because my dad was like that and always had little side hustles. So I knew I would have done something. But this is not what I intended to do. It's just I fell into it and have loved it ever since and been going for it with it for a long time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, wow, so I'm not even going to lie to you. I feel like your. Your story is pretty similar to mine. Do you remember MySpace?

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, yeah. So remember, back in MySpace days, we got to actually like design our own websites and make them look cool and like there, no the HTML. So that is actually how I ended up learning HTML as well and, um, I kind of started playing around with websites and that built a few for a few friends and yeah, it's. It's. That's basically how it happened. It's crazy how you think you're going to go down one path in the world and then you end up going down something completely different.

Speaker 2:

But Never know where it's going to take you.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. That's exciting. So tell me a little bit about powwowsorg.

Speaker 2:

Powwowscom. So we are a place where we help everybody experience, explore and connect with Native American culture, whether you're Native or not. We have resources for Native people who are into powwows and do that as part of their culture and their lifestyle. But we also have a lot of resources for people who maybe want to go see their first powwow or are just curious about the culture or an ally or something. We have a lot of resources for that. So we do that in a variety of ways. We have articles and photos and videos that we post on our website. We also have a calendar of powwows across North America. We have the most comprehensive list that is in one place so you can search and find a powwow near you and as well as. Probably our most popular thing is we live stream powwows and we live stream probably about 30. I think we did 40 something last year. On average, we're around 30, 35. And so if you aren't able to travel as much, or if you're missing a powwow because you're somewhere else, we live stream them.

Speaker 1:

Wow, that's really cool. Honestly, I don't really have a lot of knowledge on any of the powwows or anything like that, so maybe drop a knowledge bomb for us. Let us know what it all entails before we hit record you're in Georgia, I'm in South Carolina.

Speaker 2:

It's down here in the South. There's a festival for everything. You know we have an ochre strut here. There's always some kind of festival. Well, powwows are similar. They're a cultural festival. There's dancing, there's singing, there's food, there's all this stuff. It's a complete immersion into Native culture and they're open to the public. So there's one happening, at least one every weekend somewhere in the US and Canada.

Speaker 2:

On our calendar we list anywhere from 1,000 to 1,200 a year and we miss a lot. We're not even getting them all. So there's one in every state, almost every Canadian province. You can find them close to you somewhere and it's a great way. They're open. You can go and watch and spectate. There's lots of stuff to shop and eat, so it's really cool to see that part of it.

Speaker 2:

Some of the bigger powwows like I'm going to one at the end of April it's called the Gathering Nations. It's the biggest one of the year and so that's a contest powwow, so the dancers and the singers will actually be competing against each other to win prize money, and so a lot of powwow people kind of make this their living, or at least maybe a major part of how they make their living and they'll travel around the country and compete at these powwows. So it's really cool. Here's my plug. If anybody out there is curious, you can go to powwowscom. We have two resources for people what to expect at your first powwow, so that's powwowscom slash powwow101, and how to find a powwow powwowscom slash powwows near me. Both of those free resources and we'll get you into the powwow world.

Speaker 1:

Wow, awesome. Yeah, we will make sure that we plug those in the show notes as well, so you can easily click on that. Yeah, no problem, I'm excited about that. Like I said, I've heard of them before. I kind of had an idea what they were, but, I'll be honest, I had no idea that the public could actually go help you join them. So that's really cool. I think that would be a really fun experience for you know, just for people who like to do cultural immersion, which a lot of my audience does. So that's awesome. Okay, so sorry we got to get back to Disney. I gotta know. I gotta know, just because I haven't done it. What's some? Give me some tips and tricks. How do you, how did you, make it happen?

Speaker 2:

Well, for us, I mean, the first thing we really did is we decided early on in this whole side hustle thing that if we were going to put in all this extra work, why were we doing it? And for us it was let's prioritize travel, let's prioritize having experiences as a family and not some of the other stuff. So early on we made those kind of choices. You know, I drove a small little compact car for years so that we could afford, you know, trips. But yeah, for us it was a choice, like we're going to prioritize travel and we live close enough that we can drive, so it's not as expensive as having to fly every time. And I know some people are challenged by that.

Speaker 2:

And so we like one year when my daughter was probably in middle school, we bought annual passes. Like one year when my daughter was probably in middle school, we bought annual passes and for every President's Day, labor Day, memorial Day, we would just get in the car when she got out of school on Friday and just drive down, and then we'd have Friday, saturday, sunday and drive home Monday. It was a quick trip and with annual passes it didn't cost quite as much because you already had your tickets and then you just find a cheap hotel room and go. That's kind of how we made it happen. Now, of course, my wife, we did so many trips that we were planning trips for other people, and then my wife decided to become a travel planner. So this is what she does now, right? So we're down there quite a bit now for research and, of course, to visit our daughter.

Speaker 1:

So I'm sorry that made me giggle, because that's what I do too. When I go to travel, I do lots of research. No, I really do, though. I actually dig deep into locations and stuff and learn from the locals and all that. So there really is research going on, y'all, I promise that's amazing. So if you were, I guess the most common misconception of Disney is that you have to be there for more than one day at a time. So is it possible to actually get the parks down in two days? If you can only go for one, weekend is the only time you're ever going to be able to go. Is it two days enough?

Speaker 2:

It's never going to be enough, no matter how much time you have, because it changes all the time. Walt said early on that he wanted his parks to be constantly changing, so there's always going to be something new to experience. So one of the things we tell people whether you're going for a week or three days or one day, just determine what your priorities are and realize you're not going to see it all and just have that expectation right. The other, since you said misconception. Have that expectation right. The other, since you said misconception. The other misconception I want people to hear because it's not just for kids anymore. There is so much now for adults to do.

Speaker 2:

If you are a foodie, walt Disney World is a foodie paradise. They have a restaurant they just got their first Michelin star, okay and a restaurant right there outside of Magic Kingdom. I'm a bourbon guy. They have a bar over at Disney Springs Polite Pig. It's a barbecue restaurant. They have hundreds of different selections of bourbon, some really really incredible, rare ones that you won't find anywhere else, but it's all kinds of. There's tons of great restaurants and there's all these festivals that happen throughout the year. So it is not just for kids anymore. Even when our daughter was still living with us, we had a few trips where we would just go the two of us and enjoy the food and the festivals and some of the other offerings, because there is so much more to do now than just the rides and having a cheeseburger or a hot dog or something like that. It is so different now.

Speaker 1:

Wow, yeah, so I went to. I've went to. I think it was Disney Wait, which one's in California Disneyland?

Speaker 2:

Disneyland's in California. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I went to California when I was like eight years old and we went and we did the whole Disney thing and I think we were there for like four hours and I rode like one ride, that whole. It's a small world ride, I know, because that song gets stuck in my head still to this day. It's a Small World Ride, I know, because that song gets stuck in my head still to this day and I don't remember loving it as a child. So I mean, of course that was a long time ago. I don't want to tell you how many years ago. So the fact that it's actually shaped up now and it's a little bit more towards you know a little bit of everything. So you get adult life, you get children life, all that stuff. I do think that that has kind of expanded. Have you been to both locations in the US or just Disney World?

Speaker 2:

No, we've been to Disneyland several times. We're actually going back in December, and we've been to Disneyland Paris too, so we have been to one international park.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow, okay, well, compare them. Which one's the best?

Speaker 2:

Oh, so as far as like just wide offerings and so much to do, there is no comparison to disney world. Okay, it is, it is massive. So as an example of size, if you take all of disneyland, both parks and their downtown disney area, all of that land fits in magic Kingdom's parking lot in Florida.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:

So, on a size perspective, disney World is massive. Wow, as a Disney fan, disneyland is a little unique, though, because it is intimate. It is where Walt was. You can still see some of the things that had his touches on it, which for me is really cool to walk down and see things that were actually his. So they have some rides and attractions that are only in Disneyland. Disneyland Paris is so different. It still has that Disney feel and some of the same attractions, but they definitely put their own twist on it. The food is different. It's a really cool experience, but I mean Disney World if you're looking just to go to one place and you really want to experience a lot. I mean there's four parks, there's two water parks, there's Disney Springs. I don't know how many resorts there. There's probably like 30 something resorts and countless restaurants. So I mean you could we go all the time and we still haven't eaten at all the restaurants? We still haven't stayed at all the restaurants. We still haven't stayed at all the resorts.

Speaker 1:

it is so much to do down there yeah, I think that's a hard thing too is trying to eat at all the different places. I'm one of those people that like like once I find something I love, I want to keep going back. But then there's this other part of me that's like we should try this instead. Uh, but yeah, like if I could create my perfect meal, it would be from all over the world. I'd have like cheesecake from here and pretzels from there and all kinds of places. So, yeah, I love that. So Disney World is your absolute favorite, you'd say, and you said that two days is okay to do it. But what would you and your wife recommend for somebody the length of time?

Speaker 2:

If you can do like a five or six day trip. For me that's really the perfect length of time if you're going to do an extended trip, because you can put a break in the middle. I just said Disney World's massive right. It's a lot of walking. It is not uncommon for us to get back to the room and have 25, 30,000 steps.

Speaker 1:

Yes, love it.

Speaker 2:

Yes, having a break day in there can be huge, but also having time so that, if you have little ones, that during the middle of the day you can come back to the resort, maybe spend an hour in the pool, kind of not just rest but also let your mind reset, because it is kind of sensory overload for a lot of people. So if you can build in those kind of rest times it does make the trip more enjoyable. Everybody will have a much better time because you can go at a little bit slower pace. So many people go on their first trip and think they have to hit everything right. Then it can become very stressful and you can end up not having a very relaxing and not a very enjoyable time. So if you can build in some extra time, that's what we recommend.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I love the fact that your wife is a travel advisor for Disney or she specializes in these trips. So I know I'm also a travel advisor, but I do a lot of like cultural immersion type trips and beaches and that sort of thing. So I don't feel like we're stepping on each other's toes or anything. But since she knows so much, I want to get her information. I'd love to plug her today on the show as well, just so that if anybody has questions they can reach out to y'all directly, make sure that they can get answered and that sort of thing as well. So where can we find your wife?

Speaker 2:

Probably the easiest place is over on her Facebook page. She's Kelly Gowder um dash KTTW, which is her, the, the name of the agency she's with key to the world travel Um, so yeah, or um, you can go to our uh, I guess our, our links page, gowdersareonthegocom. You can get out and get you there too. Yep, um. And yeah, she's specialized in a lot of Disney, um, but we do a lot of cruising too, so she does the cruising and all-inclusives. That's kind of where she spends most of her time with her clients.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome, so okay.

Speaker 2:

So have you done a Disney cruise? Yes, so we've done 24. We leave on our 25th, in about 10 days, oh my gosh, which will put us at the top status with Disney. So we're excited. Yeah, we've done. That's awesome. We've done them in. We've done several Europes. We've done two transatlantics, one hawaiian and one alaskan wow.

Speaker 1:

So how would um have you done cruises on other ships as well, like other brands?

Speaker 2:

yeah, we've done royal and carnival. Yeah, we've done royal and carnival. Um, so, the royals that we've done, we did it on the two biggest ships wonder of the seas, which at the time when we went was the biggest, and then we went on harmony of the seas, which, when we went, was the biggest, and then we went on Harmony of the Seas, which at the time was the biggest. Those ships are amazing. There's so much on those ships, they're just incredible.

Speaker 2:

It is a different feel, though, from a Disney ship. A little small thing. Disney is more of a classical n nautical-type sailing, taking its cues from some of those, you know, like the Queen Mary and some of those older seafaring ships. Whereas, like, when you go down into the promenade of a royal ship, you feel like you're, you know, in a big mall, a fancy mall, and you know you're in that kind of maybe sometimes a nightclub vibe at times too, in the evenings, whereas Disney, when you're walking through the atrium, you can still see the ocean. So it's, you know, it's just a different vibe. Yeah, I mean, we are kind of biased toward Disney, of course, because we've done so many.

Speaker 2:

All right, you know, like the food on the Royal ships, in the premium dinings we loved. What was the name of that? The premium dinings we loved. What was the name of that? It's a southern place now I forgot the name. I'll remember it in a minute. I'm sorry, in a minute, but some of the premium dining is fantastic. The main dining on a Disney ship is comparable to Royal's premium dining, so you can kind of put it there.

Speaker 2:

The price difference. There is a price difference, right? Disney has some things included that Royal doesn't. A lot of travel agents, when they're booking your cruise, will tell you you pay to get on a Disney ship and there's lots of stuff then included your entertainment, your food, you know, your sodas, your drinks, those kind of things, not alcohol, but all that kind of stuff's included. Where you're going to pay to get off the Royal ship because there's so many up charges, it's just a little different, right. Yeah, yeah, but you know it's. It just depends on your type of vacation.

Speaker 2:

If you have young children who are want to have that kids club experience and you want to have them have that kind of separate time where they can go and make friends and do all of that stuff, which is what my daughter was really into Her cruise friends are still friends. Lots of them are still friends with her now. Oh, I love that They've come and visited her while she works at Disney World. Anyways, that kind of experience where you know the kids can be independent and go and do their own thing happens on a Disney ship the Royal and Carnival. They have kids clubs, but it's not quite as immersive or the same type of experience. But here another misconception that I want people to understand is a Disney ship. We found that on Disney we could separate ourselves from the kids more than we could on Royal.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

Because the Royal adult-only areas are 16 and up. Okay, because the royal adult-only areas are 16 and up and so like, because Harmony and Wonder are so big, when you're in some of those areas you could still be like the Solarium. We were trying to spend a nice quiet evening in there one time and there was 40 teenagers running around.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh Not fun.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, where on a dizzy ship they have, especially on the older ships, they have one whole section of the ship for nightclubs, pools and everything reserved for 18 and over, and you do feel like you are in your own world and you can separate yourself. So you know it's just, but like if you want to gamble and you want to have the time in the casino, you got to go Royal or Carnival or some other ship, because Disney does not have casinos.

Speaker 2:

Oh, okay, I didn't casino you got to go Royal or Carnival or some other shit because Disney does not have casinos.

Speaker 1:

Oh, okay, so I didn't know that either. Good to know. Yeah, so I know one of the really cool things. So back in the day, when my kids were younger, I used to always try to get them to go to Disney World. They're boys and they're not like fun. They weren't fun. I should say they're fun now, now that they're adults, but when they were younger they just, you know, they had, like, they wanted to do their thing, and if it wasn't what they wanted to do, then they weren't going to do it.

Speaker 1:

So Disney was never really on their radar, but I was always pushing for it because I Disney. I think it's just amazing. So we were trying to get onto the you know, the Disney cruises and all of that. And while I was doing research, I found that there's a lot of Facebook groups for Disney as well, which I think is really cool. So if you're going on a cruise, then you can actually find a group of people that you're going to be cruising with and then you can start talking to them. I think there's like a whole duck thing, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well, there's a thing called fish extenders. Okay, outside of a Disney cruise room there's a little metal fish and so you hang something on that so that you're extending your fish. But on these Facebook groups you can join the fish extender group and it's a gift exchange. So you get a list of cabins and you're in that group and so every night, or every couple of nights, you go to your little fish extender with the pockets and you look and you get little gifts and it's super fun. And they'll have just general exchanges. They'll have ones that are maybe Christmas ornaments or postcards or treats. Those are super, super fun. And again, when my daughter was young, having those little exchanges and coming back to the room and finding a little something for her, love that.

Speaker 2:

And the Facebook groups are really cool because and even for us, like we're, there's there is a Facebook group for every single Disney sailing. And even for us, like, there is a Facebook group for every single Disney sailing, not every ship, every sailing, okay, which is crazy, right. So every time a ship leaves, there is a dedicated Facebook group for that. It's all created by people. It's not. This isn't official. So even us, we can join these Facebook groups and there's sometimes meetups planned. Some people schedule a group meal at like one of the premium restaurants. That's really fun and you get to go and experience that and kind of meet people.

Speaker 2:

Our first transatlantic this was the coolest meetup. We've ever seen this couple apparently this is what they do when they cruise they plan these pub crawls and it was literally 12 hours of pub crawling on one of the sea days. Now, we didn't make it the. We didn't make it the whole 12 hours. We went for a few hours we went and rested and did something else and we came back and met them up later. But it was a great way. It was like on one of the first days it was a we met so many people that we then hung out with the rest of the rest of the crews, um and you know, still friends with them, still talk to them. We've had several families that we've met on cruise, that we've sailed with them again and again later on and, like I said, my daughter has made so many friends on Disney cruise ships that she still keeps in touch with. So yeah, those Facebook groups are huge for that.

Speaker 1:

That was one of the things that I thought was the most unique about all of it. I mean, they might have those groups as well for Royal and all those other places, but I know for sure Disney does and just to be able to hang out, meet your people before you're actually on your ship and and even afterwards like one of my favorite parts of traveling is meeting randos. I mean I can't tell you how many people I've met in Canada. I've met people from you know, the United Kingdom, all those places, and somehow or another I always end up meeting somebody who lives right down the road from me, which we normally. It's crazy how it happens, but my husband and I will always like.

Speaker 1:

If we go to an all-inclusive or whatever, one of the ways that we use to break the ice is to bring one of those inflatable beer pong tables. So we hang out in the pool and we start playing ping pong or beer pong, and then the next thing, you know, people start showing up and then there's a party. So that's one of my favorite favorite parts about being able to go out and explore, and I've I mean I've met some really cool people we're still friends with, for you know 15 years ago that we're still hanging out and talking about on Facebook and every year, happy birthday, that kind of thing's. It's really cool to be able to do that and I I love that disney has that, that outlet for everybody to kind of hang out and and I mean, like I said, you said it's not disney and or whatever they're not the ones that are actually hosting it, but it's still cool that they have it.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, yeah, so we went to one of the group meetups and we were having a meal, um, just with random you know, it was like 18, nine couples, so it's like 18 of us and somebody right across the table is like they said where they're from. We're like, wait a minute, you're where. And they're like 20 minutes from our house and it's like, you know, we did a transatlantic cruise to find somebody that's 20 minutes from our house. It's crazy. Yeah, you never know crazy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we did the same thing down in j. We found these people. They literally live like three streets over from us and we're like holy hell, like I had no idea we would have never met.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing. So you've done both the cruises, you've done the parks. Which one, would you say, is the best experience for somebody who's brand new out of the gate?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I know here's our meal plans, right, and so I'm the one leading the group and you know checking the clock and oh okay, our reservation's coming up, we got to go. You know those kinds of things.

Speaker 2:

So for me, I think the cruise is a more relaxing time because I don't have to be that person because, and also from again as the planner, it's stressful when you go somewhere where you're having to decide every night you got to decide what to eat or every meal you're deciding breakfast, lunch and dinner like where are we going to go? Let me you know, okay, this credit card's full, let me use this one. You know what. You know. You're making those decisions right. A lot of decisions, it's a lot of decisions.

Speaker 2:

For me when I get on a cruise ship, a lot of those decisions are made for me. You know everything's already paid for, I don't have to worry about all the extra upcharges, or you know things like that. We just can go, and especially early on in cruising, when there wasn't Wi-Fi at sea, I could also take my phone and just lock it in the safe for the week. What's that like? And really be just it was amazing and just be completely disconnected. Right, Right, be. Just how it was amazing and just be, completely disconnected, right right.

Speaker 2:

So for me the cruise is a much more relaxing, immersive experience. And still, I mean now, since we work for ourselves, we do work on the cruises, we do take our stuff and work, but we, you know, we try to as much as possible disconnect and have some time to um. The park is a totally different experience and I know I love the parks just as just as much. It's just. For me, sometimes the cruises is that where I can let go a little bit more.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I, I, I totally get that, I'm. I, my husband is the passenger, princess, um, when it comes to travel. So he literally just shows up at the airport, he buys his little beer, takes his, his flight, and then that's basically it and I take care of everything else.

Speaker 2:

So it is a little stressful sometimes, for sure, right we traveled with with friends lots of times in different groups, and so if it was a group, I'm the one right, I'm the one leading the charge and making those decisions, and it it's fun and I loved it. But when I got on a ship I could just, ah, right, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I feel like traveling with friends is a little bit more stressful too, especially if you're the more experienced traveler. Often they're like yeah, they're looking at you, like you need to be the one, and I'm like I don't know the answers to it. We'll figure it out, but I don't know right now.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, I love that, awesome, so I want to kind of switch back over to the powwows piece, because I don't feel like we got a lot of those questions in. So what's the difference between like attending a powwow or maybe going to like a Disney celebration? Are they completely different festivals? Are they similar to that? They have anything that's close to? I'm just kind of curious if they mesh with each other somehow.

Speaker 2:

I mean, any festival is going to have some of the same kind of experiences, like festivals are. You know there's always going to be a big component is the food. And same thing at a powwow there's going to be an area of the powwow that's kind of all the food trucks and all the food vendors and some of the some of the ones you'll go to. Maybe we'll have traditional, just regular, like you like fair food kind of thing, but many of them need to go to will have um kind of tribal specific food, depending on where you are.

Speaker 2:

So, like the one I'm going to, new mexico will have several vendors with the uh, southwestern peppers and and those kind of spices and and those kind of mixed in with things. Um, so you know the festival is going to focus on food and vendors. You know that's going to be similar. The powwows are just going to have the difference in it's going to be really the event itself is really focused on what's going on in the arena, which is the dancing and singing and the kind of things that happen out there in the arena.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, how do you dress for a powwow for somebody who's never been to one? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I mean any kind of you know just what you're wearing on a normal day on the street, that that is completely acceptable. You know, I tell people just don't, you know, don't show up with some kind of graphic tee. That's, that's offensive, right? If you wouldn't wear it at Disney World, you probably don't want to wear it at a powwow. Okay, and now, if you're some of the smaller powwows, do have times where they'll invite spectators out. They call them intertribal dances or friendship dances. So there may be times for you to participate. So, generally speaking and they're not going to expect you to do all of this, but generally speaking, when the women go dance, they'll cover themselves with a shawl. Um, if they don't have, like, long sleeves or what on, they'll wear a dance shawl. Um, and a lot of the the southern plains tribes will want people to have long pants on. I mean, that's the kind of stuff if you're planning to go to spectate, you may want to. You know, put some jeans on or something like that. It It'd be, you'd be fine.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But I think you know just what you would normally wear. Casually is fine. I wouldn't go in beach attire. You don't need to go in a bathing suit and flip-flops or something, but any kind of what you would go out to like to the mall or something is going to be completely appropriate.

Speaker 1:

I ask because a lot of times people will get offensive if you're not wearing the right attire, so like, for instance, if you go to like a Renaissance fair or something you might dress up in a Renaissance outfit, but I didn't know if a powwow would be the same way because it seems to me that if we dressed up as what we thought they would be dressing up, it might be inappropriate. So that's why I asked that question.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend. Don't do that. Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't do, I wouldn't recommend don't do that? Yeah, don't, don't. Don't do that. Just wear what you. Yeah, just wear what you have. Yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, I wanted to make sure that we discussed that, because that's one of those things where I could see people that, oh yeah, here I go, and then they're wildly, wildly inappropriate. So I want to make sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, on the same token, you'll see people at the powwow selling jewelry and other things for you to wear. Now there may be some vendors like actually selling powwow outfits. Okay, that stuff aside, if you're seeing like jewelry and rings, necklaces, hats, that kind of stuff, that that is all made for the public to buy and wear, so it is completely respectful to buy and wear. So it is completely respectful to buy and wear those things, got it Okay yeah.

Speaker 2:

One of the people we work with a lot is Eighth Generation. It's a native-owned company up in Seattle that does jewelry and blankets and they have a really great explanation on their website what is cultural appropriation and what is cultural appreciation. And there is a difference, right. And so these vendors, they do have things and they are trying to sell them to the public. Um, so it is, you know, and it helps those vendors out, if you do go and buy their art. You know, buy a nice art piece and put it up on the wall, that's perfectly fine.

Speaker 1:

Um, yeah, so they do want you to to buy that stuff my biggest thing, um, is trying to make sure that we're doing things that are appropriate anywhere we go, so whether it be traveling to another country or or attending different events and that sort of thing. So what, I try to educate as much as possible. It doesn't always work, but definitely try. I like there's I have 50,000 questions going through my brain right now, so like I'm trying to weave them out. Um, so how has the digital landscape changed? How native america culture and traditions are shared? Are they? Is it different now than what it used to be, you know, 20 years ago?

Speaker 2:

oh, that that is such a good question. And, yes, no, all the above, um, okay, you know, know, it has helped in a lot of ways, especially for powwows right, with us live streaming powwows, with us having a calendar of powwows that people can find. That has all helped raise the awareness of powwows, which is really cool. Ceremony and some of the spiritual stuff. Most tribes are still holding that close and so you don't see that out there on the internet. That stuff is still being held. You may see like some discussions or like this is going on, kind of thing, but you're not going to see that, you're not gonna see those things live stream, so they're still holding that back. But the other thing that I think is really incredible is it has allowed so many native people to become creators and share their stories. You know, 15 years ago, when I was or 20 years ago, whatever it was when I first started doing powwows, trying to do this stuff on the web was much, not just costly, but it was difficult, right, it took a lot of effort. Now, with TikTok and some of these other apps, it is easy to build a following and so there's so many people out there telling their stories, sharing their art, sharing their music. For example, fawn Wood and her husband Dallas, they like during COVID, they started doing virtual round dances. So round dances are they're like powwows, similar, but something that happens up in a lot, especially the northern and canadian tribe. They they have just round dances. So they started doing this virtually and built this great following. Um, and fawn has continued on doing a lot of stuff, a lot of really, um, not just sharing her song and her voice, but sharing her humor, sharing her insights using TikTok and Instagram. That has been fantastic to watch.

Speaker 2:

There's some comedians that are doing some really crazy stuff just hilarious. Tanya Jo Hall is another one. She created a character called Auntie Beatrice. In Native culture, your aunties are the ones who are kind of like your protectors. You're also the ones who will get you in trouble, you know, and maybe tempt you to go do something right, but they're also the ones that are going to keep you in line. So she created a character called Auntie Beatrice just hilarious, fun to watch. You've got my friend, larry Yazzie, who is. He does a lot of travel and he shares. You know he goes to like he just went to Europe, he's been to Australia recently and he goes and shares the culture and kind of explains what powwow is, and he's using the same kind of you know his online presence to help kind of share that and spread that. So it has. It has really helped so many more people share their stories and make those connections, so that has been amazing to watch.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. So I know. One of the things that I think of often is that all of them kind of huddled around a fire and telling stories of you know past and that sort of thing. So are those now available online or are they still kind of holding those secrets still?

Speaker 2:

available um online or are they still kind of holding those secrets? Still, you know some. There are some storytellers out there that are kind of telling traditional stories using online platforms and a lot of those have been put into books and audiobooks as well. So that's pretty cool, um, you know it's a mix. So some tribes are still holding some of their stories and their legends and origin kind of tales close, but a lot of them are sharing that. Cherokee and Oklahoma have done a series on like Cherokee word of the day and they do a video and in that they're telling some of their stories, not just what the word means, but they're sharing a little bit about what the word means culturally to them. That's still, yeah, I mean, it's a mix of how they're using it.

Speaker 1:

Wow, I love that this has been such a great conversation, all of the things that I learned. I would really love, too, if you could kind of put me in touch with, maybe somebody who is a Native American that would love to be on the show. Sure, just because I have so many questions and I really think that's one of the cultures that kind of gets, you know, pushed to the side and nobody really takes a lot of time to learn it and and respect it and that sort of thing. So I definitely would love to to bring somebody on so we can kind of, you know, let's learn some people some stuff. I love to bring somebody on so we can kind of, you know, let's learn some people some stuff. That's all I can do. Really, so perfect, paul. One last question that I always ask before I end this show what does paradise mean to you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, that's a good question, right. You know it has changed over the years. You know it has changed over the years. I think right now, our kind of our stretch goal is to is to continue building this lifestyle that we have with travel, but doing it closer to our daughter. So, moving to Florida, so probably that that's what we're looking to do here the next couple of years is migrate down there and then be able to to take these trips and do these things again with her and as she builds her family to you know, to do that with them.

Speaker 1:

Grandbabies. Yes, that'll be fun. I love that. So paradise is where the family is, huh.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

I love that. That's such a great, great answer too. Thank you so much, paul. I really appreciate you taking the time and us having this conversation. I will make sure that lots of people know about powwowscom and also your Disney experiences, because that's really cool, and, yeah, your wife too, so that they can reach out to her and grab and get their trip booked. That's really cool as well. So, yeah, thanks so much. We will keep in touch and hopefully we'll talk soon.

Speaker 2:

Thanks so much, appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

Have a good one. Bye-bye, hey there, beach lovers, that's it for today's episode of Beachside Banter with Bea. I sure hope you had as much fun as I did. Hey, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review if you enjoyed the show. You can catch me on all social media platforms at Life, love, travel, and if you've got a question or you just want to stop by and say hi, feel free to slide into my DMs and I'll make sure to get those answered for you. Big thanks to everyone who joined me today and for all of you tuned in, and until next time, enjoy your week.