Working Class Acts
Candid conversations with working class actors navigating the entertainment industry.
Working Class Acts
Brendan George
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On this week's episode I sit down with the multi-talented and ever talented Brendan George. We discuss everything from building our own hospitals to his new show, The Vessel, premiering at 59East59th in NYC.
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I want to play that. You want to do that? I have no idea what it is. No, it's great. It's just a little improv game. We go through A, A through Z.
SPEAKER_02A through Z. Yeah. And improvise scene.
SPEAKER_00Create a a little story.
SPEAKER_02Okay, great. I'm ready. Um, all right. Can I start? Yeah, you can start. Go for it. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00I'm in the mode of yes and. Here we go. Yeah, great. You're like, sure, whatever. That doesn't matter. I'm like, no, but right off the bat, no, yeah. Okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02Are you coming to dinner tonight?
SPEAKER_00Brad, I've been thinking about coming to dinner, but I I I don't know. I don't think it's a very good idea.
SPEAKER_02Can you just make up your mind?
SPEAKER_00Don't be that way.
SPEAKER_02Don't do that. Even if you're scared, it's gonna be a lot of fun. I think you should come.
SPEAKER_00Fun. Fun. Seriously? Based on the last game to one of your display.
SPEAKER_02Hell yeah. Hell yeah? Or uh oh well. Um guess what? Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_00I I don't know if uh me coming to this dinner party is a good idea because last time it was it was kind of hellish for me.
SPEAKER_02Just go in there, ask for a raise, and get out.
SPEAKER_00Kevin isn't a good boss though. I can't just go to the di this dinner and ask him for a little raise.
SPEAKER_02Kevin may be a mess, but he is a rational guy, and you work very hard and you deserve this raise. Maybe. No. No, maybe. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00I'll go. I'll go. Will you be by my side? Preferably not, but if you need me, I will go. That is preposterous. You're telling me are you just trying to get me to go in your place or something?
SPEAKER_02Really, what I need is for you to get a promotion so that I can quit. I'd like to quit.
SPEAKER_00So this is sort of about you. But so you're quitting. So will I be taking your job? Is that the promotion? Totally.
SPEAKER_02Uh uh. Uh very soon I am going to go public with an announcement that will be taking me away from the company. Wait, where are you going? Xerox. Yeah, that makes sense. Zoinks, it's gonna be good.
SPEAKER_01And that is the alphabet wave.
SPEAKER_02My first time. I think it was perfect.
SPEAKER_00No, that was good. That was actually quite good. That was coherent.
SPEAKER_02That was a coherent story. Yeah, yeah. I did famously uh famously. Famously.
SPEAKER_01So everyone knows that.
SPEAKER_02I did collegiate level improv with the group known as Improvidence. Really? In Providence, Rhode Island. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's the perfect improv name, I imagine.
SPEAKER_02I know, I know. Yeah. If you can judge an improv group by its title, we were tier one.
SPEAKER_00Grade A. Grade A.
SPEAKER_02Improv. It really was. You could fill a 300-person stadium of improv attendees much easier than a football game at Brown University. I love that. I love that. Welcome to Working Class Acts.
SPEAKER_00Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Working Class Acts Podcast. I'm your host, John Matalone. I am joined today by a very, very talented and creative individual. He him is a writer and actor based in New York City, whose work focuses on existential crises. But in a fun way. His solo show, A Eulogy for Roman, which I saw was great, received a drama desk nomination. That's right, for unique theatrical experience. That was at 59 East 59th and at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Other full-length plays include The Vessel, inspired by the Hudson Yard structure of the same name, 59th East 59th, that's where it was. The Dog Park at Studio Tisch, and Realize Reality Island. Performance works include Richard II at Red Bull Theater. Ooh, we can talk about that. Premieres of Bleach at the Wilson Lounge, and the Crisis Actor at Laurie Beachman Theater. Laurie Beachman Theater? Yeah. That's the Laurie Beachman Theater. And new works development with A4. Vibe is spelled Vibe Theater Experience. It's spelled interestingly. You can just cut the whole thing. Oh no, no, no. Trust me. I do all of it. This is all staying in. I don't believe it. Fringe NYC, the flea, Teatro Lattea, and Williamstown Theater Festival. Oh, you were a Williamstowner as well. Oh, wait, we were talking about that. TV and film includes the Wraith of Othello, Tribeca, Youthful Pleasures. That's upcoming. And Gunhild Borkman. Gunhild Borkman upcoming. He got a BA at Brown University. He got his MFA at NYU Tish Graduate Acting. And he has a website. It's www.brendon.
SPEAKER_02I don't think there's going to be any listeners anymore.
SPEAKER_00They've all tuned out. I presume this is your uh Instagram at CuriousBeorge. That's good. You know, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02It's Brendan George. It's me. Brendan George. Yeah, Curious B. George was, I thought, in seventh grade a real stroke of genius. That it I still think it's a server. It's incredible that at the young age of 29, that's right, holding on to my 20s with the life. Uh I still stand by it, actually. It's good. It's one of few things in my life that I stand by from that time.
SPEAKER_00That you hold on to still. I love it. Brendan, how are you doing? It's good to see you. I haven't seen you in a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Great to see you. I'm feeling good. I'm the sun is shining.
SPEAKER_00It's really beautiful out today.
SPEAKER_02I so I'm I'm feeling good.
SPEAKER_00Wonderful. Wonderful.
SPEAKER_02How about you? I'm I'm doing great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, except for this anxiety, I'm waiting for this, like I was telling you before this, and just waiting to hear back about a job that I really want.
SPEAKER_02And uh we'll see if it happens. I have to tell you, I'm in the process of casting on the other side of the table now, and holding holding actors in my right. Holding, unfortunately, not on this one, but you never know. It got too much. And I I yeah. Well, now the whole point of me being here. Um no, I I holding the soul of another actor in my hands is is way too much power. I just think. Are you feeling like the weight of that? Absolutely. Being on the other side of that? Absolutely. Because I mean, sometimes I I'll be honest, we so I'll jump right in to say that we have there's this show. It came up in my bio that I'm sure everyone was skipping through. Is it a eulogy for Roman? No, actually. The vessel is going to be a 5090 at 59. So it's it that is announced as of April 14th, which is why I'm in the house. Which is after which is after the airing of this episode is after that. We won't say when this was recorded. Exactly right. Um, and we've received over 3,000 submissions for three roles. And it is a very I I I started as an actor. I'm still am an actor, and it is a very humbling experience to the actor part of my career because there there are a lot of people who I think are not the right fit, and so very quickly you can just sort of through. But there are also a lot of people who are the right fit, and a lot of people who now have taped, some have even taped a second time, and who are really phenomenal actors. And I don't like indicate it's like I want to write a novel to each actor who we let go at this stage in the process to tell them like how valuable they are, how skilled they are, how much I want to work with them, how great they're doing.
SPEAKER_00We were doing 50 productions, you'd all be hired for one of those productions. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02But it's yeah, and it's all the cliches that I've been told, but now I have new understanding for about the things that are not in your control as an actor. Like I've loved seeing people's different take on the material, some of which is like so exciting, truly in ways that I never would have expected. But then there are three characters that are on stage most of the show, and we have to make sure that the bold choice from this actor goes with the bold choice from that actor, and there's just no controlling what the other people are bringing to the table. So the chemistry of it all. Um yeah, so I'm I'm feeling very and and uh on the weeks that I haven't been getting as many auditions, I am more patient now because I'm like, well, considering there's only a hundred thousand other people trying to just get the audition. Yeah, exactly. Getting the audition is actually more of a win than I than I probably was. See, those are statistics I never wanted to know. I'm so sorry. And this is a non-union job, too. God damn.
SPEAKER_00Well, I wonder if it's but maybe there's more for it. Yeah, I wonder if it's less if it's a union because there's more than everyone's part of the union. Right.
SPEAKER_02No, it's true actually, because this is a uh it is being paid commiserate with union wages. Oh, that's great. Which is great, but it is technically a non-union short only submission, so I do think that it's a it's a role that the the the parts are in demand in a way that you know if it if we were going to a union pool, maybe it would be a different different conversation.
SPEAKER_00And are you in this show as well?
SPEAKER_02Not in this one. I'm brave writing, brave reading into buttons.
SPEAKER_00Probably, you know, I I'm I've recently over the past couple of years started writing stuff and submitting them. And like, should I be in it as well? Because we were also talking about free play before this. For those who don't know, NYU has a a uh self-produced capstone project in your third year. You can produce any show you want. And I was producing the whole festival, right? Which Alex D. Oh, did you do that? Was it hell for you as well?
SPEAKER_02Or did you find you took to it a little easier? Loved it, but it was challenging for you. No, no, it was challenging. I basically um took up shop in Eugenia's office. I had an honorary like office to do the work and that made me winter show, like in the season. So instead of practicing for a show, I was producing the festival. Which was scene for me.
SPEAKER_00See, that's where I fucked up because I was like doing all of the producing stuff, and I was doing a one-person show that I was also like in the moment writing as well. So it was just it was hell. Um, but I I'm just trying to overcome that sort of uh I think I sort of traumatized myself a little bit with doing that all at once. And I'm like, maybe it's not that bad, but also there's a reason these are all separate jobs, you know.
SPEAKER_02You're so right. I recently directed my first short film. Oh, yeah. And not only did I cast myself, I triple cast myself. Oh my god. I Lindsay Lohan myself times three. Is this a parent trap? It was it was like a Victorian Ibsen inspired parent trap a little bit. Stop it. I'm kidding. When does this come out? That's the short film called Gunhild Borkman. Again, for those closely listening to my bio, which was just so thrilling. Um basically I'll let you know that that wasn't the longest one I've had. There are some that have been very long.
SPEAKER_00There were those things that when you read it like in a playbill at a show, you're just like, oh, this is fine. But then when you read it out loud, you're like, oh yeah. But that should be nice because you've done a lot. You should be very proud of it.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, thank you. It's cool, yeah. It's cool to have anything to talk about, I think. To fill a podcast episode with But yes, so basically, as if self-short films weren't indulgent enough. I cast myself three times in a true act of narcissism. But it's short. It's short. That's right. And it's nine minutes of yeah, I'm playing Twin Sisters, actually. Oh, very Wait, this sounds bad. Inspired by, by the way, Richard Fellman's acting class, which we both took year one. Yes, Richard Fellman. And he had assigned to a different group. I wasn't not a part of this because it is traditionally cast female. Uh-huh. Um, these these uh classmates of mine got to do a scene from John Gabriel Borkman, the Henrik Ibsen play, which is very obscure and is not produced, I think, for a reason. If you read the whole four acts, but I thought there was something very eerie and spooky about it, and then I was like, wouldn't it be so funny if the same actor was the twin sisters in this dilapidated, vacant uh Norwegian Victorian home? And then I was like, what if I was that actress? I see that. Yeah, then I cast myself as them and John Gabriel Boardman for a little sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, wait, I love it. Wait, so you're all the parts in this thing? Oh my god. Yeah. Wait, did you do this by yourself? No, I was gonna say I like it. So I am that's a lot.
SPEAKER_02I yes, well, it's sort of echoing the the point you were making, which is there's a reason those jobs are probably and everybody I've talked to in post, which are not myself, I do have a whole team of people who've been working on it, which is so great. Um, I'm talking to people in post and they're like learning first what the and they're like, How did that go? You know, directing her for short, and you were huh, okay. And then I was like, Yeah, well, you know, I had a very great AD and I was like, Oh, I was gonna say, did you have an assistant director? Basically, my assistant director kind of was in many ways the director on set he was my eyes and ears outside of it, but they would like bring me over the monitor while I was in costume and in frame, and then I it was it was pretty deranged.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I'm sure it's it's like when you self-tape, like when you have to you're like checking your own takes. It's like it's a weird thing to like view yourself in the world.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and I couldn't, and actually just for efficiency, because we shot in two days, like I didn't have time to watch all the dailies or like watch all the covers. So I really did surround myself with with really friends as well as like really trusted great collaborators who they could watch everything and be my eyes and ears, and I trust if they thought it looked good, I did not need to question that. Sure, yeah, yeah. Keep moving. And I actually so far it's looking good. That's great.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm excited to see it when whenever it comes out.
SPEAKER_02Sure, you got it. Brandon, where are you from? I'm from uh a town whose slogan is the city that works.
SPEAKER_00The city that works.
SPEAKER_02You that's right, baby W E R K S. Um and that's right. Did you want to guess what city?
SPEAKER_00Wait, cause it's city that works. Because I'd actually, I don't know that I know. Did you mention where you were from before? I don't think so. I don't think you know. I want to say, for some reason, is it on the Eastern Seaboard?
SPEAKER_02It is.
SPEAKER_00Are you a Bostonite?
SPEAKER_02No, but I love that. Near? Yeah, I'm I'm a I'm a northeastern man.
SPEAKER_00Is it Massachusetts?
SPEAKER_02It's not Massachusetts. But Connecticut. Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I can tell you by my. I can tell it. It's weird. I don't know what it is. Yeah. Because I'm from upstate New York, I maybe I can identify it a little bit more. Uh so Connecticut, are you?
SPEAKER_02Connecticut, Stanford by Stanford.
SPEAKER_00There you go. Stanford, Connecticut. I would never have to do that.
SPEAKER_02Yes, which actually is funny because I did grow up knowing that slogan. Nobody really knows that. Even people in Stanford don't necessarily know that slogan, but it is true. And they're not working. And then when I went to school, for college, Providence, their slogan is a city that works. And I was like, what? And so there's a little bit what I what I privately have enjoyed about that is that Stanford is the city that works, and Providence is a city among many. It's like, look, we're not number one, but we work. Yeah, and I any city could say. I know. And so now I wonder how many other cities out there are claiming there's cities that work. But another city that's works. These are the cities I go to.
SPEAKER_00These are the cities that work.
SPEAKER_02That's right. Me too.
SPEAKER_00Did you like growing up in Stanford?
SPEAKER_02I loved it. I really did. Yeah. It's a very it's not far. An easy 60-minute ride off the Metro North. Um yeah, we it's it's more, it's a lot more diverse than its neighboring towns. I mean, it's a proper city. There's 120,000 people who live there. I went to public school downtown. So I think, you know, you only know what you know when you know it. But um that's poetry. God, hold hold on to that. But but growing up in a similar way, I mean, even s not only did I enjoy it, but I think I was acutely aware at the time, I was like, there's a lot more going on here. There's a lot of different types of people than it would be if I was growing up in a more rural or homogenous community. Like, say where I grew up. I don't know, not to name names. Entirely white. But um, yeah, I was very, very grateful for that. And had a great time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's great.
SPEAKER_02Loved it.
SPEAKER_00Did you uh where'd you get the the bug? The proverbial bug.
SPEAKER_02Yes, the proverbial bug, which I do like you haven't changed your life.
SPEAKER_00I there's a lot of things that I repeat and say exactly the same way, and I'm I you're holding to bug. I yeah, I'm holding to bug, and also, but a part of me is also like, am I unoriginal? Should I say something?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I mean I've heard about I know what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_00I've said so many things the same way. But you know, that's that's my consistency as an actor, folks. That's what that is.
SPEAKER_02Hire John Mattaloni.
SPEAKER_00That's what I'm all this is for.
SPEAKER_02I would say that I got the bug growing up next to a community theater. Ah. Which was funny because I have two older siblings and two parents, none of whom were involved in this community theater that was next door. But um, it true it was like walking. It I grew up near a like public golf course complex that had like a tennis court. So I basically all the things I ended up doing were just next door. I like played tennis because there were tennis right there. Yeah, yeah, did theater because tennis was right there, or theater was right there. But um the real actually story goes, which my mother would hold me to is that apparently I was flipping through catalogs like LL Bean catalogs as a child that we received in the mail. And yes, and I basically was like, how come these kids get to be in the magazine? And she uh basically was like, Well, they're cute, like they're cute kids. Which like not what was she saying about you? Well, and then I basic I guess um, in a rare act of confidence, was like, I'm cute. And then I kid you not, I started to go into New York and do like print advertising as a child. Yeah. But I was I mean, I was like six or seven. But that is very confident.
SPEAKER_00I did not have that form of confidence.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know what happened to the early it was started hot print work. I'm on yeah, I'm I'm rebounding now, but um I yeah, that was my peak. I was six from boom burning. It's been all downhill from there. And then basically it was too time consuming, and so they were like, Okay, there is a theater right next door. Why don't you if you have such addiction to attention, why don't you just go next door? And then actually, uh, well, my first show was I was a munchkin in The Wizard of Oz. Oh, of course. As at the end of the year, as a child, of course. And then I I stuck around at and this theater, shout out, Curtain Call Theater, Curtain Call Theater Theater in Stanford, Connecticut. They are amazing. They're a really, I would argue, like the most professional community theater that I've ever experienced or seen. And one thing that's also really great is they have a lot of programming for younger artists, aspiring artists, et cetera. So um basically every summer we had like a youth show, for instance. But not only do they do the youth show, they have a youth board of directors, if you will, where you from starting from like the age of 13, you can apply to be on the board. And if you're selected, you work year-round to basically produce the youth show in the summer. Wow, that is a really great idea.
SPEAKER_00It's into the mindset of like what it means to actually put on a full production.
SPEAKER_02Yes, like they ch we select we would pitch the shows, we would get a short list of shows from our own submissions. We would pitch the shows, we'd select the shows, and then we'd select we would hire at 15 years old, we'd hire the adult director that was gonna be you know do doing the show that year. And I mean it wasn't without its drama for sure. I've got good stories.
SPEAKER_01But um I love back then it's just some drama now with the show that you're currently doing. You're like, I need to write a novel to all the shows. No, truly don't. Oh, I've yeah, I was not sympathetic.
SPEAKER_02I was like, ooh, we have power, let's wield it. Um whereas yeah, now I'm just sad about all the broken dreams. But uh no, it was it was incredible. And actually, it's funny to look back on the path because I am I I love producing and definitely in addition to being on stage and acting, it was like my first foray into like producing and understanding what goes into creating theater and these projects. And um yeah, I still get a lot of reward out of that. I still really enjoy it. So that was that was where the bug hit. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Two bugs. Do you remember what your first show was? Was it through that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I guess it was was Wizard of Oz. Yeah, it was. Oh, Wizard of Oz. Probably Munchkin and the Wizard of Oz.
SPEAKER_00Um was there a uh uh any production that felt formative to you, like that like really like, oh, I'm really stepping into my own here. I want to pursue this more.
SPEAKER_02I do have a couple. I I will say, when I got cast as Winthrop in The Music Man, in the adult production, and I was a named part with my own scene. That's right. And and I had some real character work, you know. He has a speech impediment, so I had to really get into the circumstances of that. Sure. Um I yeah, I think I was really excited to have No. There's no small parts. Of course. But I think in the ensemble I was really inventing the part. You know, I was munchkin number six and I was creating the narrative where it was like a chance to, in a very early way, like take on a different character, circumstance, identity, et cetera. And it was super fun. And I love, yeah, I just I just had a real ball with it. So that was one. And then I would say when I was in high school, I was really debating like, do I want to pursue this professionally? My dad is an account was an accountant. He ended up an accountant. Really? Yeah, amazing. Well, so then maybe you can relate to this. I don't know. But he's a very rational, practical man. Sure. Who's like, it doesn't matter if you're talented. Okay, all right, all right. He basically was like, statistically, this ain't happening for you. So I don't care how talented you think you are, it's not gonna happen. So low percent doesn't mean no percent. You're right.
SPEAKER_00I'll let you talk to Andy George. That's good. Low percent don't mean no percent.
SPEAKER_02I was very stuck, I guess, in high school, sure, knowing whether or not this was a viable path, even though I knew I really enjoyed it. And I remember doing a production of Pippin, which remains my favorite musical. I've done it twice, I guess. Um, and I was Pippin and Pippin, and he's doing his soul searching, and I was a junior in high school, and the Diane Paulis version was on Broadway. Yeah, and I maintain that's like the best theatrical experience I've ever been to, and I was just like so inspired and feeling all the feelings, and I remember that show definitely was formative too. That's where I was like, okay, I've got to pursue this somehow. Um, even though I still didn't major in it in college, my like five-year plan was I'm gonna return to this and give it a shot.
SPEAKER_00You want to hear something crazy? Please. I've never seen Pippin, read Pippin. I only know Corner of the Sky. It's all in a beautiful song. I've heard of it. This is what I will tell you they were doing all the time when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_02I think Pippin should be in the pantheon of must-know musicals alongside, you know. I think it is. It's ish. Ish for theater people it is. Yeah. But when I talk to friends who are not in the biz, they they're like, you know, they know Rent, they know Wicked, they know Hamilton. Sure. And I know it's not in that level of popular culture, probably because we don't have like the movie. We haven't had our generation's version of it in the Diane Paulis. Was we need a movie version of the movie. We need a movie version. No, I'm sure actually. And trust me, my friend, my good friend Peter Charney would kill me if I talk about it too much because he's trying to get those right. Really, is it? Um, but but I I think it is so what's incredible, whatever, I could go talk about it for now. It's just so much other than I mean, the corner of the sky is beautiful, of course, yeah, but the show is much deeper than its superficial appeal. The music is very catchy and just it's a kind of fun travel, but it's really existential. It's quite existential and quite dark actually by the end of it. And I love if I there's certain pieces I know I love them. If I'm like, if I could make one thing in my life, I would die happy if it was just that one thing. And it's like Pippin, the musical, or Harold and Maud, the movie.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god! I just saw Harold and Maud for the first time just a few months ago. And it it uh one of the best movies I've ever I've ever seen. It's my favorite movie. It is so unique. Oh, and rest in peace. Um Bud Court just died, I know. Oh my god. I know brilliant. Both of them are just brilliant in it. I know. Well, everyone, just do yourself a favor and watch Herald and Maud. It is one of the most incredible films. The beginning, that that long opener, the most unexpected thing I've ever experienced.
SPEAKER_02Well, watching steal from my my own bio, so wonderfully written by me. I I would like to say it's hard to find a through line sometimes of the things that I'm drawn to, but I do think I'm drawn to existential crises, but in a fun way. That's it.
SPEAKER_00No, but that I think that's like that movie is like Chef's kiss of it all. Yeah. Um, what I was gonna mention earlier, uh have you watched um What Hot American Sonora? Oh, yeah. Yeah, did you see the John Early doing Pippin? Uh so they did like the first day of camp. Yes, yes, um, and watch it, but it is. One of the funniest things I've ever seen is John Early comes in. He's like part of the theater community or whatever. Yeah, and uh Amy Polar and oh I can't remember the other actor's name. It's not Bradley Cooper uh at this point, but there's likely in black, maybe, or no, it's like it's a it's someone who wasn't part of the original who comes in. He was on Mad Men, the one with white hair. Oh very handsome dude. Yes, the one who looked uh John Slater. Yes, he looks like Anderson Cooper. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's him and her, and they're like they're trying to cast for this musical that they're doing, and John Early comes in and does a rendition, a corner of the sky, that is unforgettable. It is just pandering beyond pandering. It's so funny. He's like doing it in a pop, like get him at Macon. He's like adding riffs, he's doing like body rolls. The John Early way, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So good.
SPEAKER_00He's a brilliant um okay. So you were in Stanford. When did you make the move to New York City? Did you pursue acting right at you went to Brown, yes?
SPEAKER_02Yes. I went to Brown. I majored in environmental science. Oh. But I did all my little performative extracurriculars. So I did improv, I did acabella, I did theater, and then I came to New York July 8th, 2018, if anybody's wondering. I was yes, um, so fresh out of undergrad. And um, here's a very small but funny story. The first job I auditioned for in New York as an actor was like 10 days after I had moved in. I had created a backstage.com account. I was just seeing what's out there. As we all do. And I was going through and I submitted to something, and they got back to me and I got the audition. And so I went to um I went to Brooklyn, which at the time I was living in Queens, but I everything was new. So I was just like, what's going on? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I get off at the Bergen Street F-stop, and I walk into this person's home and I do the little audition and I booked it. My first audition in New York. It was for a one-act play, and I booked the job, and I was like, Oh my gosh. This is easy. I was like, everyone made it sound like this was gonna be so impossible. A one-for-one, baby. I have got this. This city is uh wrapped around my finger, and uh needless to say, hundreds of rejections later. I don't have the same hit rate, but it was a yeah, and it was a very um in this small, gratifying way. It was it was really I mean, it was for I think like fifty dollars or a hundred dollars, but it was like to even get the audition and to be told like that's a paid, like you can come in and do this. I was like, okay, cool. I so I yeah, right away just started acting as much as I could and uh working as a tutor, which I still do as a microbial case.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, you know, that's funny. When I first moved into Brooklyn to like the first thing that I technically auditioned for in New York City, I also booked. And I had a set I was like, oh, this is great. Like what, like it's hard. Yeah, it's so fun. It was like for a uh a sci-fi uh podcast or a sci-fi pod. It was called Damicles Clash. And it was like, it was so fun. It's still to this day one of my favorite things I've done. But yeah, needless to say, the rejections did follow. So when did you decide like you wanted to get higher education to go to NYU and pursue it? Because that must be a kind of a scary sort of choice to be like majoring in this one thing and then totally switching.
SPEAKER_02Well, I sort of I my again, maybe my accountant father was was haunting me when I was decision making. Basically, I knew undergrad I wanted to get a non-theater focused degree. And I did love environmental science, was very involved in that. And my, you know, in another life, I would be an environmental lawyer and I'd be having a great time or at least a bigger salary. But I uh knew that whole time that if this was something I wanted to really commit to, I could get a theater education at the master's level later, or at least try to get that later. So it had been two years. I had really enjoyed working in New York, and I had booked some jobs that I was really excited about, but truthfully, I fell in over my head. Like I booked a solo show. This was not my own solo show, but um the first solo show I did was uh the US premiere of a UK show that was being done in New York, immersive and site-specific, in a basement in Bushwell. Of course, audience of 14 at a time. I was playing a male escort who was audience interactive. So I was like in the underwear, like giving people lap dances and doing this like solo show. It was a whole thing. Oh my god. The show was called Bleach. It was a real trip. And I was it was the most rewarding artistic experience I had ever had. I was like holy, I was, I mean, I was even the fact that I was like working, you know, six shows a week or whatever, like the fact it was like a full-time, I was a full-time actor with this show was super demanding. I was so hype. But from a skill level, I was like, I just feel like I am totally winging it. Like I had no idea how to sustain myself, to like really do this craftfully. And I did have some theater more more um accomplished, maybe further along in their career, theater friends who saw it and sort of I think they knew that too. Like they supported, but they were sort of like, wow, that's a lot.
SPEAKER_00You know, I was gonna joke that, like, oh, and then you got your MFA and you realized everyone's just waiting in. I know. I'm kind of I have thought I'm like, would it really feel that different now?
SPEAKER_02There is definitely that too.
SPEAKER_00But you could feel a little bit of maybe pressure from others or just sense like, oh, there's some greenness from me.
SPEAKER_02Yes, even if it was for my own confidence, I didn't like the feeling of not knowing what I was doing. It's kind of like the difference. Again, forgive me because I'm a tutor, so this is coming from the testing world, nobody wants to hear about that, but it's like you can get a 96% on a test and be like, wow, I don't know how that happened, but that's awesome. Yeah. Or you can get a 96% on the test and be like, yeah, I know how I got that. Yeah. I had prepared, yeah, I knew the answers to these questions. I felt really confident. And that's the difference for me between getting something right versus really mastering a skill. Totally. And that was the difference was I felt like there were times where I was getting it right and I wasn't even aware of how I was getting it right. Uh, so I couldn't necessarily replicate it or I couldn't, you know, rely on it. And I wanted to build that confidence. And so that was kind of why after two years, I mean, also the pandemic happened. I had a little eat pray love moment in Utah where I was working as well. I ate um lots of uh Tex-Mex cuisine. Oh, hell yeah. I prayed with the Mormons. Did you really? I'm not actually in there. Um I more like was was single-handedly, I think, dissolving the Mormon religion with my with my sinful ways out in Utah. Um and then what did I and I loved, I loved the snow and theyself, yeah. Um but but at that time I was it was a nice breather because then I was taking stock as theater, theater's future was a little unknown, but if it was coming back, I was kind of like, okay, yeah, I I definitely am I'm all in. I would want to go to a school for this, I would want to major and get a degree. And then that year everything was remote because it was the winter of 20 to 21 and Yale wasn't even, for instance, like doing an auditioning class. Yeah, yeah. So I auditioned, I applied to Jewel Arden NYU just to learn what the process was like, really not expecting I would get in anywhere.
SPEAKER_01I was just like, I'm you you auditioned at a time when the process was not the process. Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02I was just like, well, and I was I was able to do it from Utah. So I was like, well, I just have to wake up at 7 a.m. But then yeah, I'll get on this call and do it. And um when I was offered a spot against my own uh expectations, I was like, well, I'm not gonna turn it down. Yeah, so rock on. So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00It took me back here. Yeah, yeah. Was that whole audition process and callback process all on Zoom?
SPEAKER_02All on Zoom, including on the callback weekend, we had like breakout rooms where we did improv exercises in groups of three, and we were like doing three-person improv over Zoom. So the the way they I would say the circumstances of my acceptance are uh murky. Questionable, questionable at best. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I'm uh wow, but hey, you made it. You did it.
SPEAKER_02But once you get the job, you can't ask why. Yeah, you just gotta show up and do it.
SPEAKER_00Be grateful for it and learn what you can, and yeah. Yeah. Wow. And so did you enjoy your time at NYU? Yeah. Because it was a big, it was a very tumultuous time. You came in a very weird time.
SPEAKER_02I would not say it was flawless. You know, I I was, I guess I I went in with a very specific set of goals, and I feel like I accomplished or exceeded my target on those goals. So I was very gratified by that. I think it is very, very challenging on a like personal and social level when you are in New York City and trying to balance your identity beyond the school because of course an intensive programmer like that wants you to be immersed as much as possible. But unlike if you, you know, were doing this in a cabin in the woods somewhere, you are like in the heart of culture, of your friends, of your and it I guess there's a high pressure to perform at the level that is presumed you need to perform at. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you just I think it's it's hard if you can compartmentalize your you're totally good. It's just that you know, it's what happens on the floor will leave you when you leave it, and vice versa. And and for me, who had already had time between undergrad and grad, and I had friends in New York, your friends are gonna invite you to their birthday parties and their picnics and their hangouts, and then even though you're in New York, quote unquote, you're not available. You can't do any of it. Yeah. So you just have to sort of really get a f a thick skin and coldly tell everyone you are unavailable for three years. And then when you emerge on the other side, you get to be everyone's friend again.
SPEAKER_00But that is that is exactly it. I remember that being uh difficult, that that sort of transition. And for myself, actually, in particular, I I was going through a breakup at the time, so it was like I didn't even want to be going out, you know.
SPEAKER_02But it doesn't God forbid you have any personal trauma for the floor for the acting classes to mine.
SPEAKER_00Oh, they mined it, and I allowed them to mine it, and I allowed myself to mine it, which was good. Um, I needed it, uh, but it's yeah, it's it takes a toll. Like it's it's exhausting.
SPEAKER_02NYU to tip school of trauma.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there you go. The of the traumatic arts.
SPEAKER_02Of the traumatic arts, that's right.
SPEAKER_00That's what we learned. Um so when you got out of NYU, did you feel like you uh could hit the ground running, or did you feel like you've had some some time between stuff? Because I know you produced your own work and the transition was very hard.
SPEAKER_02Uh even though I knew it would be hard, it didn't make it any easier. Yeah. Because when you're in school, you have three years of guaranteed work. Yep. You are always working and playing and challenging and pushing yourself, and you uh can get as much out of it as you want. I mean, you can sort of shut yourself off, but if you're open to it, you really can. And that's why, for instance, with the free play festival, I wanted to produce it. I I wasn't that wasn't a selfless act. I I mean that was fun for me because it was like this is an opportunity for me to like really invest myself and and have a an experience and and you know what have you gain a skill set and work on those things. So I think something I'm a little caught up on is that I think there's an adage told to a lot of emerging artists that you shouldn't wait for opportunities, you have to create your own opportunities. Sure. Right. But to me, that is like telling, let's say, a doctor who had graduated from medical school, who is very qualified to be a surgeon and passes all his classes, and everybody says, you are so talented, you'd be an amazing surgeon. I think I know where you're going. Oh my God. We're not hiring surgeons right now. So maybe if you built a hospital, you could be the premier surgeon in your own hospital. That you built. That you built. If you could just, you know, pour the concrete, just make it. Just make a hospital. Yeah. You then the good news is when when you're a surgeon also who builds his own hospital, you can design the wings and you can design the floor plan and everything like that. They'll sell it to you like that as an actor.
SPEAKER_00I I so agree with the sort, like in no other profession would that ever be, is there anything equatable to what we tell artists in that way? Yeah. It's like going back to the conversation we just had, these jobs are separate for a reason. I'm an actor. Why am I now being told in order to succeed, I now have to become a writer, a producer, a director, like learn lighting, do all these extra things. In any other profession, if you were to sell a doctor, like, oh yeah, now you have to go to construction school to figure out how to build a hospital, they would go, What the fuck are you talking about?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you don't ask a pianist to build their own piano, they play the piano. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So And sure they might get something out of it if they knew how to build a piano, and if that's up to them, if you happen to.
SPEAKER_02The expectation, create your expectation. Yes. So I think that I'm very conflicted about that notion because I feel very lucky and fortunate that actually I happen to like building hospitals, metaphorically speaking. I do enjoy producing and I have a history of doing that. I do enjoy writing and I have a history of that. But the expectation that my own acting career relies on those skills is even more pressure on the actor because in addition to everything we're talking about, it also shifting all the responsibility from the things that are out of our control, which are very much out of our control, and they're putting that burden of responsibility on you, the individual, that your own acting career is your responsibility. And if you are not working, it is actually in some ways your fault's fault. Because you're not creating your own everything.
SPEAKER_00I'm bowing down to you, honestly, because that I I could not agree more. I think there's so many bizarre standards that we push onto actors. And I've I've said I even said this like when we first went into lockdown, and self-taping started becoming a thing. And I do think there are a lot of benefits to self-taping. I think the number one being you can do it anywhere at any time. That is genuinely a boon to the actor. I don't think it's a boon to the actor that I mean, even what we're looking at, what you can't see on screen right now is the lighting. There are these cameras I had to set up, I had to set up the focus and the shots. I know I'm like these tripods alone are a couple hundred dollars on tripods. This audio equipment that I'm using. Uh like this, these are expenses. These are this is extra labor that I have to do. Like, if I were hired hired to be uh an interviewer, I would not be expected like by some other company. I would not be expected to come in and do all of this, but I do. And it's the it's this is what is at yeah, it is kind of thankless. No, it is. It really is true.
SPEAKER_02I mean it's yeah, we get so intimately familiar with that exploitation. Sorry, sorry to drop the E word that we don't bat an eye about it, and you know, it's easy to point out a problem, it's not easy to always present a solution. But I I think going back to the question of transitioning from school to to post-school, I think that that has been the through line of the last two years. It's only been two years, it hasn't been much time, but I'm very proud of what I've done. Yeah, I've I've had a lot of opportunity, but a lot of the opp almost entirely those opportunities I have created for myself. And so I'm so I'm grateful to be working and have having these experiences. Like very shortly after, I I think the week after I graduated, I happened to have two friends approach me with this idea for uh extending a short film into a feature film. We had already shot the short, but they wanted to go for the feature, and they said, We would love to have you back for the feature, which I was thrilled about as an actor. And they said, Well, we also are putting together the producing team. Would you want to be a lead producer on it? And I was like, That's really flattering. I want to be clear with you, I've never worked on a feature film, let alone produced one.
SPEAKER_01They said, But I was a producer at 13 years old.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but at 13 years old with the summer year theater board. Um, and they they were like, That's fine, like we're all gonna learn together, let's do it. And so, for instance, really that was that was like my postgrad year of film education, was I was working nearly what felt like a full-time job producing this feature film, then getting to be on set, then seeing it through to post. So, for instance, like now I have a feature film credit as a lead actor, which is awesome, but it's not because I auditioned my way into that, it was like we built that hospital, and then I hired, or I was getting hired by the fellow board of directors of the hospital. You know what I mean? It's like it's a different way in, and and I again am grateful for those opportunities. I l I had an amazing time. It's just I think there's that part of me that knows that's the reality I'm working with, and I sometimes wish it weren't, but it is what it is.
SPEAKER_00No, I feel you. I really do. I mean, it it's not something you should feel guilty about, though, if that's the if that's in any part of fear because Because you are creating work. I mean, just for this other show that you you mentioned, you did create work for three actors. I know, I'm pretty excited. That's pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_02I will say, as much as all the heartbreak that I'm feeling at at this stage, I can't, we have no matter who our big three are gonna be, sure. I'm so excited to be able to tell them. Like we are truly at the stage where in final callbacks, and it's like they are hype about the project, and I'm hype about the project. I'm hype about them and their talent. And it's truly one of those things where you're where it's like, I wrote in the notes as somebody sent materials in, I said to the director, I was like, this actor makes my writing better than it is. Like I need them. You know, it's just it's so and to share that's what's amazing about theater is that like you, you as a writer, let's say, are so excited about the project from your point of view, from your artistry, whatever you're bringing. But then the sound designer, like for our set designer right now, we're taking meetings with, he is like so excited about the show because of what he is bringing to the table. And then he's doing all this stuff I could never even dream of. I mean, truly, he's I'm like getting these vector work sheets, and I'm like, what the heck is that? But it's like so cool to see people at the top of their artistry and the top of their passion, the depths of their passion, bring it to the table, and that's going to be true of these three performers. That's like so exhilarating, and to get to give that job to to three actors is phenomenal. And hopefully one day I'll get to employ, you know, a thousand people on my Game of Thrones or whatever. Yeah, hell yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it must be so gratifying to like be able to witness the full scope of like the chain of inspiration. Yeah. Because like you've you're you're inspired by something, you wrote something, now you've given that thing to someone else, and now they've been inspired to create via you know, whatever department they're working through.
SPEAKER_02It sounds cheesy, but every time I get even the slightest affirmation about the show, like somebody writing in an email briefly, like, just read the play, loved it, and then they move on to something else. I'm like, my little heart sings because I again I'm at this stage, maybe it'll be different if one day I'm I'm making big commissions for people who are hired to do this work. But right now I'm in a stage right, I got to um I am at a stage where, and I say this often on my dark days, it's like I'm writing plays nobody asked for, that nobody's paying me for, and nobody said they needed. And nonetheless, I perhaps delusionally thought this deserves to exist. I'm interested in this. I think this is awesome. And then when you take that baby out into the world, and then other people are like, what a cute baby! Like this baby, this baby is adorable and is gonna make an amazing grown-up, and I can't wait to see what they do. Like, I'm like, you think my child like has a place in this world? You are excited this child exists. And let's be clear, not everything I've ever done, everybody says that about, and that as they shouldn't, you know, but you know, that's my but for something like this that is making it this far into the world, it's really it's just so cool that like now I can send the full script of a play that again nobody asked for to agents and managers and casting directors and designers and artistic directors and whoever requests it. Yeah. And then we get feedback from everyone who reads it who's like, this is so awesome, we're gonna program it. Or this is so awesome, I wanna be in it. This is so and you're just like, wow, you know, maybe the things I like and I'm into other people are too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_02Bad audition story. Just recently. I have a m so many to choose from. I got it. Recently. I got recently. This is this is in the last year. This was like in the summer, I think. Here we go. I got a tape to be in a horror film. Oh wow, horror story, horror horror story. I had no real It was in a franchise, it was in the 28 Days Later franchise. Oh shit. Mm-hmm. Pretty cool. They sent me clips of what the like post-possession body should look like, kind of like how what the movement style is. They sent me a clip on YouTube of like um like how you're supposed to move parasite like eating a cockroach and the bug was like being all jerky and stuff like that. Exactly. So they were like, once you're infected, this is how you behave. So one scene was like pre-infection and one scene was post-infection. And so I had to really, and they were like, go for it and have fun. So I did my standard scene, and then I got to my infection scene, and I really wanted to show them like because I'm maybe not the most I don't necessarily read horror. I don't know that sure. I don't know what that really means. I don't know what that means, like but I haven't been hired for that work before, so I really wanted to show my range. Sure. So I really threw my whole body into it, and in fact, what I did was give myself whiplash. Oh no. I like was like distorting my body in this way, and then I like swung around so fast to like snap into the and it was my first take of the scene. I just like really did not, I guess, plan ahead, and I felt my neck snap, and then I finished the scene and pressed stop, and I was like, they're gonna get one take of this because I can't do that again. And then for about four months, I had like pretty noticeable to severe like neck and back pain from just pretending to be a zombified human for this horror film, which obviously I did not get called back for or hurt anything from. So this is the sort of silent work that's happening every day. So it was something you did to yourself. I totally did to myself. That's the thing. I know that's what's like so humiliating about that story is like nobody, nobody actually asked for that. And I just I decided to hold it. I didn't ask for you to hurt yourself. I was like, oh, you want horror? I'll break my neck on camera for you. What do you think next? It was horrifying. And then they were like, Well, we're gonna go in another direction. And I'm like, I'm like your neck did. Yeah, exactly. Thank you. And I'm like, I'm so glad I did that. I'm I'm yeah. So this is the beautiful life, the glamorous life. Wow.
SPEAKER_00And that's why cool that you got to to audition for that movie.
SPEAKER_02I guess so.
SPEAKER_00I guess so.
SPEAKER_02Well, it is cool. This is why it's also good to be a player.
SPEAKER_00Killian Murphy's coming back for it, I believe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you know, I didn't keep up with it. I didn't keep up with it after I didn't uh after I couldn't see string when I snapped my neck. You're like, it's not happening. I genuinely was like, God forbid they actually call me in for this because if they want me to replicate what just happened, they will not be doing that again. Incredible what you did. Doing could you do that for 10 takes on something?
SPEAKER_00No, no, I got one in me. And we're gonna need medic on standby. And if I don't get it on the first take, well, you'll have to wait four months. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm I think I'm okay now, though. I love it. Brennan, this was so wonderful talking to you. Um, what are you working on? I know you said you're producing something right now. Any anything else?
SPEAKER_02Okay, so the only thing I have to promote is my show, The Vessel. The Vessel coming to 5090 59 theaters this summer, July 30th to August 23rd, unless we get extended, which would be rad. Fantastic. Uh, I will be playwriting but not acting. So if you want to come, I may be hiding in the shadows watching the show with you. Um, or yeah, that's that's pretty much it. And then Lord knows what else will come my way. So you can follow me at Curious Be George.
SPEAKER_00There you go. That's on Instagram?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Instagram. Technically and TikTok. Technically, TikTok too. Although I'm very unreliable on there. I do sometimes I go on little sprints where I um post and yeah, I get a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I saw recently it looks like you've been getting a lot of viewership on your on your stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh it's true actually, but I feel uh quite embarrassed by that actually. Really? Yeah. But then I like I keep oscillating between like I've gotta be shameless and just like do my thing, gotta get my get my name. I like your show out there. You get hot takes good takes. I guess I'm just a yapper if you can tell at the end of this two-hour interview. But yeah, I I guess that's my calling is to yap.
SPEAKER_00Hey, we all we all got something to yap about. That's what this is for. It's a podcast.
SPEAKER_02Thanks. Thanks for bravely putting a mic in front of my face. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for bravely taking it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was a it was a real treat. Thanks for hanging.
SPEAKER_00All right, y'all. That's this week's episode of Working Class Acts. We'll see you next week.
