Voice of the Occupier - Mike Povey

Voice of the Occupier is brought to you by the UK Chapter of CoreNet Global and hosted by Allison English, Co-founder of Aéto.

In this episode, Allison speaks with Mike Povey, VP of Corporate Services for Europe at Visa, about how corporate real estate is evolving to support better business outcomes.

They explore Visa’s move to Canary Wharf, the opportunity to create a workplace from a blank canvas, and how location, talent, and client proximity influence strategic decisions. Mike also shares his perspective on designing workplaces that help people do their best work, balancing data with real human experience, and moving beyond the hybrid working debate.

The conversation also touches on sustainability, inclusivity, and advice for the next generation of corporate real estate professionals.

Listen now for insights from across the global occupier community.

Thanks for listening. Follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Transcript

 Welcome to Voice of the Occupier from CoreNet UK. We explore what it really takes to create spaces that work for people and organizations through candid conversations with the leaders, thinkers, and doers behind the decisions. I'm your host, Allison English. Let's dive in.

Thanks for joining. We've got Mike. Povey from Visa here today. Mike is the VP of Corporate Services for Europe at Visa. Mike, welcome. Good morning. Thank you. Great to be here. Allison, Mike, can you just take us through a little bit about what your role at Visa entails and what you're responsible for? Yes, of course.

I mean, practically speaking, it's a typical CRE function that I lead here in Europe, so we provide that whole range of real estate services to the company from location, strategy, analog analysis. Uh, and real estate transaction management through facilities management, workplace experience, capital projects, and all points North, south, east and west around the CRE spectrum.

Excellent. So quite, quite a broad remit there. Your move to Visa came from JGSK prior to that, so working in the pharma world. Can you tell us a little bit about what that transition was like moving from pharma to kind of the tech slash finance world? That's an interesting question. You'd kind of think it was complicated, right?

Because of the varying, you know, very different, um, uh, aspects of the two industries. It really wasn't that huge a shift, and I think that, you know, other than needing to learn a new company, new values, new culture, new ways of working, and the payments industry. You know, it's so complex that it's a learning journey for me every day.

Still, I learn absolutely every single day and it's utterly fascinating. But if we think about it for a second, you know, the, the core capabilities of any corporate real estate organization. Are pretty much the same regardless of what company and what industry you're working in and uh uh, and for. And I think personally that's one of the great joys of the industry, that portability.

But there again, I think that portability rests on someone's ability to. To learn stakeholders and quickly learn about a company and to bring their ideas every day. You know, I think that's the secret source for me that made it work for me. It was less about going from regulated pharmaceuticals to regulated payments industry, and more about learning about the company and how I bring corporate real estate to life within the company.

Fascinating. I love that concept of portability and being able to kind of plug in other places, um, taking what you've learned obviously, but then bringing that to new environments with different leadership. Oh absolutely. Same thing, different place, different kind of style and source, but, uh, it's all corporate real estate at the end of the day.

Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. So, speaking of portability, uh, a few months ago, visa announced a big move, but shifting your European headquarters from Paddington to Canary Wharf five years ago, that was kind of not something anyone would've dreamt about in the kind of the, the height of the pandemic. There was a lot of discussion about Canary Wharf.

Almost dying, you know, in, in companies having a mass exodus and now we're seeing a resurgence there. Can you talk a little bit about what Canary Wharf is? What's the appeal for Visa and, and what your thoughts are about moving there with some of the other, other organizations, other banks who are doing the same?

Yeah, there, there's so much that's appealing about this, this transaction and this and this move for us. I think everybody here in Visa recognizes that we've outgrown our current home, physically outgrown our current home. Now, if I think about some of the constraints, you know, meeting spaces are at a premium.

Alternative work settings are at somewhat of a premium. Senior leaders rightly want to be with their teams, but need private spaces, and then we think about the variety of amenities that are outside of the building and surrounding us, et cetera. So, you know, right now we've got the opportunity to take a, an entirely blank canvas as we strip out.

Our flaws in one Canada Square. And, and then to layer our visa experience on o on, on top of that in, in that respect. You know, as I said earlier, in that respect, we're really no different to many other CRE organizations, which kind of brings me back to that portability point. Yeah. I think the big difference for us is, you know, you know, just going back to that portability point and, and CRE in Visa versus my time in pharma.

I guess the one big difference really is, is, is that I sense at least is pace of strategic delivery in, in payments versus pharma. But I'm, I'm thinking back, you know, six years since I've stepped away from GSK shockingly six years, and that's gone in a, in a heartbeat. But I guess our style here is that we want everybody to innovate and contribute to innovation.

All of the time, and you know, it's very outcome based rather than, you know, in process based, et cetera. But, you know, absolute credit to GSK as, as as my former company, I had many, many great, enjoyable years. There was a great platform for me, worked with some great leaders who supported me. To the nth degree, and I'm delighted, genuinely delighted to see how well they're, they're doing right now, but coming back to us in the wharf, it's that blank canvas that I think excites everybody in visa about it right now.

Um, you know, we have our global design standards that we work to. Uh, global change management standards, global project standards, the same as a lot of organizations. But it's that ability to go somewhere that is new and is fresh and to, you know, build it from the ground up metaphorically. That is really getting us, um.

Excited for the opportunity right now. Yeah. It it, for some professionals like yourself, it might be kind of a once, once in a career opportunity to create that finished piece with a blank canvas. You, you were talking about kind of the visa experience and driving innovation. Can you share a little bit what is the visa experience and workplace looked like?

What do you try? You said your outcomes focused, how do you try and. Deliver that for the organizations From a real estate perspective as I said, we're a very outcomes based organization, so it's all about optimizing for business impact, which is a bit of a trite throwaway saying, but really making sure that our spaces are designed and we have a absolutely amazing head of architecture, head of design, who's based in the states and the work that she's done.

Over the last number of years is, is, you know, legend within the corporate services organization. So we're really trying to make sure that the company ethos of being outcome-based and everybody innovating and focusing on what's gonna be different at the end of an activity, being explicit about what.

What's changed if this succeeds? That's kind of the way that we think about things in the company. When we're onboarding new colleagues into the business in their very early days with us, we're talking about how we deliver on objectives and what changes that, what actually changes for a client, what actually changes for the business If, if something that we're delivering on succeeds and, and we work quite hard in.

In corporate services, corporate real estate to, you know, work along and, and kind of live through that ethos. So our designs are our spaces, again, like many other companies out there, they're spaces that are designed to enable people to do their best work. We like to think that our spaces are designed in such a way that we help people to be, almost be a better version of themselves by coming into the office and.

Collaborating, again, another fairly hackneyed expression, but collaborating and working alongside colleagues, then they can be, you know, working, working from home or, or working from elsewhere. And I think in these days of us moving, not moving away from hybrid working, but I think that speaking personally and I, I, and I think.

Speaking maybe on behalf of some of my colleagues across the industry, we're becoming a little tired of the hybrid working conversation because every company is just figuring out, and we'll continue to figure it out the way that they need to in exactly the same way that we figured out workplaces before the pandemic.

But we're designing workplaces that enable people to be a better version of themselves in the office than outside of the office by giving them variety and giving them the space that they need. At the time that they, that they need it and, and where they need it. So if you need quiet space, take quiet space.

If you are neurodivergent and you need to be able to take yourself away to decompress for a while, give them those kind, give people those kinds of spaces, spaces that are fit for purpose, for everybody that comes to work in the business, people that visit the business. And that includes clients who we want into have into our buildings as, as often and as regularly as we can possibly have them here.

Or they want to be here. Excellent. And does being, does being in Canary Wharf help facilitate that with some of the clients based on some of the other organizations that are there, Deutsche Bank's moving some people there. HSBC was out there back in JP Morgan's building a new tower there. Does that facilitate some of that?

Well, very much so. We thought, you know, it was a many, many. Months journey. Years' journey for us to make the decision on, on the relocation to the wharf. We all heard the rumors, we all kind of saw the headlines. Ah, the wharf is dead long. Live the wharf. And we didn't just wake up one day and decide, let's go to Canary Wharf.

It, it was really, you know, it was, it was years of work and stay versus go analysis on our current site analysis of all of the. Various real estate markets, the sub-markets right the way across London. Where is talent today? Where is talent going to be in the future? What does transport infrastructure look like?

Everything that a half decent corporate real estate organization should be able to to deliver on, which led us to the decision. I've gotta say in a hand on heart. We've had a great relationship with our current landlord and with our current building for over 20 years, but as I said, at the top of the.

The podcast, we've outgrown the space. Many, many, many of our UK based clients are. Over that side of, of London. So logically it makes sense that we're over that side of town regardless of whether that was the war for or not. But you know, it's a strategic step. This moves a strategic step that really does position us physically closer to many of our.

Really key clients and that we intend will foster that spirit of innovation that I spoke about, and it gives us the opportunity to provide this world class, purpose built workplace that our teams need in a truly iconic building. Okay. You know, if you think about Canary Wharf, one Canada Square, that's the building and that's where we're going.

So yeah. We can't wait to get, we can't get wait to get started and we can't get wait to get finished and to get working in there. Exciting times ahead for sure. If I can pick up on the hybrid piece that you mentioned, um, because it, it feels like we're years on from hybrid working started before.

The pandemic, obviously. Yeah. But it became much more of a talking point since then. If you could put it to bed, would you never hear the word hybrid again? Or what kind of, what is your, what's your, what's your take on that? What's your sense? This is a per, uh, this is an entirely personal perspective, Allison and others.

Will and rightly should have, uh, you know, their own perspectives. I, I would gladly never talk about, oh, the great hybrid working is hybrid working. Okay. And as you say, many of us have been lucky enough to work in this way for many, many years, but it's just a way of working, okay? And every company has to figure it out for themselves.

What does the company need to achieve? How does the company want to achieve it? And what's the best work style? Or work styles that enables that company to get to the outcomes that they need to deliver on for their, for themselves, for their shareholders, for their colleagues, for their clients, et cetera.

We're six years on from the horrible, really dark times of, of. The peak of the pandemic. And so for me, my personal perspective, as I say, I, I just think it's time to, to move on and think about what's the right workplace work style, ways of working that deliver visa to the, that you know, the revenue and the strategy that we need to deliver on.

I love that focus on outcomes. It's what you started talk, talking about kind of prior and on that you were recently on an ATO panel that we called the Great Deification and the challenge for the audience and the panelists was to not get distracted by some of the easily distractible points that can can happen in the workplace.

Some of them are designed related, some of them are service related, but focus on, again, that outcomes. Part in that piece and what you're trying to deliver for the employees at Visa so they can go in and do their best work. You'd mentioned, uh, a little bit about the secret sauce at Visa. What can you share again about the, what being outcomes focused means?

For you in corporate real estate at Visa and working with your kind of internal clients for employees, how do you measure that? What can you share with us about that outcomes journey from a real estate standpoint? Yeah, it's, it's, it's a really interesting one. 'cause at the end of the day, you know, we're all about bricks and mortar and providing, both, um.

Electable services, so services that our internal colleagues and, and clients choose to use and those that they don't, such as in cleaning services, et cetera. Um, in terms of measurement, like any organization out there, we have our SLAs, we have our KPIs, we have platforms that we use to measure those upon.

We have, various technologies in our buildings that help us understand, how densely they're populated, how occupied they are, how well utilized various of the spaces are. But ultimately my, I guess my weather vein on this is what feedback I'm hearing through surveys that we're doing, but, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm privileged. I, I really, truly get that I'm privileged to operate at a certain level in, in the company, and I'm, and I'm able to interact with, you know, many of our senior leaders and I. My temperature check is the feedback that I get from senior leaders and colleagues that I talk to in the coffee line.

You know, when I'm queuing for food and I make a point of doing that, you know, I, I, I purposefully interact with people to make sure that I'm having those, those conversations. So yes, we're very much focused on data, but equally. And I think this may be just my personality, you know, I'm a people person. I very much want to hear from people about the experience that they're having, either in the moment or very soon after the moment.

Yeah, that makes sense. 'cause data can tell, data can tell an incredible story, can uncover things, but it's that kind of human piece that's overlaid over it that often tells the entire story. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I just, just to expand on that slightly, you know, I, I, you know, data tells me how. Density populated and how utilized a floor plate may be.

But it doesn't tell me what the experience is. Okay. Now I'm sure that there are companies out there and there are tools out there that are, are measuring that experience through data. Yeah. I'm not there right now. So from a qualitative perspective. I want to hear about that quality of service as well as understand what the data's telling me.

Absolutely. The, that, um, the qualitative conversations help you fill in the why. If a space is being used really well, great. Why, but if a space equally isn't being used, also why? So you can kind of make adjustments as you, as you can test and learn and try and kind of solve for those issues as they come up.

That makes perfect sense. On achieving net zero. So Visa's committed to achieving that by 2040. How does sustainability play a role in this move to the wharf? Yeah, it plays a huge role for us. Um, and, and it's one of the, it's kinda one of the highlights, um, for me and for the team, and. For our leadership, uh, you know, I'm very proud to, I'll start by saying I'm very proud to, to say that we've, we've purchased all of our energy from green sources since 2019.

So we're, you know, we're quite a way and that's globally, we're quite a way through on this journey. But if I think about the wharf as a campus, and I think about the building specifically carbon neutrality that's achieved from moving into an existing building. Not total carbon neutrality, but a very, very significant level of carbon neutrality from moving into an existing building is a big plus point for us.

Adam Eyes will be fully electrified, um, and. We know that there's a great plan in place by and with Canary Wharf Group to ensure that the building becomes increasingly sustainable over years. And that's one of the joys, again, of going into an iconic building. Of course, it, you know, our space will come all of, with all of the obligatory and relevant EPC ratings.

We'll be aiming for. Appropriate in development or in construction and in use certifications. But then I think about some of the softer elements of. ESG, not just sustainability spaces that are accessible for all. Whether you are able bodied or have a seen or unseen disability, we're going into a campus and a space that's commutable.

Really commutable by public transport. You know, and this is where the Elizabeth line for so many of us occupier in London has been a huge benefit, uh, over the last couple of years. But, you know, as we're going into a space that's commutable by public transport, by bike, by foot, you've got. Links back out to Heathrow, you've got links out to city airports.

So from a commutability perspective, it ticks all of the boxes, but then we're going for a constant diversion of waste from landfill, both in our services that we deliver today and, and in the future. And of course, any, any construction project anywhere in the world these days has very high expectations of diversion of waste.

From landfill through the construction process. And then I guess the last point that I would touch on is, is as we exit our current building, our focus on reuse and recycling of furniture and donation of furniture to charity and equipment to charity as, as we leave, as we leave Paddington. Oh, that's brilliant.

So making sure that everything in the new space can be as dialed up on ESG as possible. Yeah it's fascinating. You know, it's. It's not the primary driver of our move, but the more that we think about it, the more opportunity to be sustainable. There is as we, as we go on this, uh, as we go on this relocation journey.

That's amazing. And one of the things you've mentioned now kind of a couple of times is the inclusivity piece. Can you share what inclusivity means to visa and how you look at that from a corporate real estate standpoint? Yeah, I think I, I think I've touched on it as a business. It's quite simple, really as a business, we just want everybody with talent and skill to be able to have a great visa career, a great visa career.

And that means that we are not blinkered to any section of society, any, you know, any classification of disability. We just want everybody to be able to come into our spaces and have a great visa career. And yes, of course, we're on a certain place in that. You know, on, on, on that curve. But it's a major focus for us in our designs and our services.

Uh, it's a major, major focus for us. So, so yeah, it's the opportunity for everybody to come and have a great career at Visa regardless of background. Color, creed, disability, et cetera, et cetera. I love that. I think you've just taken the, you know, we wanna create a great day at work, but creating a great career at a company is it amplifies, I think the importance and the role that corporate real estate can play in that.

And I think that that's, uh, an incredible aspiration and a great way to think about the impact that you can have. On all of the people who touch all of the spaces that corporate real estate around the world manages. We, we hope so. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Mike, I think this has been a fascinating conversation, um, and I'm sure our listeners would agree.

As a kind of closing question, I'd like to ask you, um, about your thoughts for kind of the younger generation of corporate real estate. Leaders who either don't know they're gonna be leaders yet or aren't even in corporate real estate. Um, but one of the traditions of the podcast is to kind of get some advice.

And I think you started talking a bit, a bit, a bit about it earlier with portability, but what would you leave for anyone considering a role in corporate real estate or who's new in a career in corporate real estate and still trying to kind of get the lay of the land? What, uh, what advice do you have for them?

What nuggets. Can I do two? Absolutely. Am I allowed, am I allowed two picks? You can, yeah. That's great. Thank you. Uh, so I think the, the first one would be, you know, thinking about the very broad church that. Is corporate real estate. Uh, I would, I would advise people to, you know, try some stuff, move around, and I'm not talking about being a, a job hopper.

Don't, you know, don't necessarily have to move companies, but try some stuff. You know, corporate real estate goes from everything from location, strategy, transaction management, through to fm, through to workplace design and experience, et cetera. So, you know, if, uh, if you aspire to. A leadership role in, in, in an organization in CRE.

Try some stuff, move around, experience lots of different things. That would be my first piece of advice. Don't necessarily pigeonhole yourself into one of the kind of work streams of activity that make up the industry. And then I, I think the second one, which is probably more important, and it's certainly a reflection that I would.

Give my younger self because I wasn't great at this, and I think this maybe applies to pretty much every industry, but corporate real estate is, is so incon interconnected. Excuse me. A CRE Industry is so interconnected with people knowing people, knowing people. My advice is, is to network. Um, and then do some more networking.

Uh, and and when you think you've networked enough, go and do some more networking 'cause you've never spoken to too many people. Yeah. You know, and it's not just about learning from the people that you're working with in your, in your current company, but, but I think my one key learning over the last however many years is that you would learn so much from talking to your industry peers and leaders inside and outside of your own company.

It's absolutely priceless. So never stop networking even when you think you've done enough. Invaluable advice on both points and have fun. That's three. There you, I've three's pushing it. I've had three picks. I've had three picks. Go and have fun. I love it. And um, I think we'll wrap up on that note. Mike, thank you so much.

This has been loads of fun for me. I've really enjoyed the conversation. It's been a joy. Thanks Allison. Thanks everyone for listening. Um, and check out our next episode next month. Take care. Until then, bye-bye.