Financial Opportunities Uncovered: A Keeler & Nadler Family Wealth Podcast

Beyond the numbers. Holistic financial strategies built on strong relationships

• Andy Keeler

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Unlock the secrets of turning financial complexity into clarity from our full-house of experts, led by host, Andy Keeler, along with his team: Abby Rose, Jessica Hultberg, and Mark Beaver. Abby shares an intriguing tale of how strategic tax planning converted a looming tax bill into a surprising (and large) refund, illustrating the power of diligent oversight.   Jessica delves into the nuances of Medicare premium planning and stresses the critical need for modernizing estate planning documents to avoid costly pitfalls.   Mark talks about diving into social security regulations that can really affect your benefits.   But here's the thing; everyone at Keeler & Nadler goes beyond just expertise.   Mark went with his client to the Social Security office locally after hitting a roadblock online.   At a clients' invitation, Jessica went to their home to talk to their daughter about colleges, options and cost.    And maybe the gold star goes to Andy who'll do everything from run numbers on car leasing versus buying when a client is at the dealership to going belly-first under a clients' home to inspect the foundation.

Financial planning isn't just about 'the numbers' —it's a holistic approach akin to a doctor treating a patient. We explore how investment management, tax strategies, estate planning, and risk management are all tightly intertwined. Through these personal stories, we uncover the emotional depths of guiding clients through life-altering events ranging from empty nesting to divorce.  That's really important in understanding every facet of a client's life to offer personalized advice.

In this conversation, we also emphasize the benefits of professional management of financial intricacies, especially in retirement. We discuss strategies to keep clients' income below thresholds to avoid higher Medicare premiums, ultimately saving them thousands. Even those with financial acumen can benefit from professional guidance, particularly in complex scenarios involving capital gains. Ultimately, the episode shines a light on the trust and value inherent in long-term client relationships compared to the impersonal nature of other firms that just focus on 'the numbers'. 

The opinions expressed in this program are for general informational purposes only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations.

It is only intended to provide education about finance, tax, retirement and related planning topics. To determine which investments or strategies may be appropriate for you, consult your financial, tax or legal advisor prior to implementing. Any past performance discussed during this program is no guarantee of future results.

Any indices referenced for comparison are unmanaged and cannot be invested into directly. As always please remember investing involves risk and possible loss of principal capital; please seek advice from a licensed professional.

Keeler & Nadler Family Wealth is a registered investment adviser. Advisory services are only offered to clients or prospective clients where Keeler & Nadler Family Wealth and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. No advice may be rendered by Keeler & Nadler Family Wealth unless a client service agreement is in place.


Andy Keeler:

What exactly is financial planning? We've explored some pretty obscure topics on this podcast. We discussed negotiation strategies. I think we discussed blue zones and even decision architecture. It seems everyone claims to be a financial planner or wealth manager. These days, tv commercials abound with couples walking on a beach hand-in-hand with grandchildren. There's even a national firm that claims to be clearly different, when in reality they do the same thing that 90% of other financial advisors say they do, and I emphasize 'say'. As my dad used to say, "aying and doing are two different things.

Andy Keeler:

The inspiration for this episode came from a conversation I recently had with a prospect. She'd been working with a financial planner for years, but was never asked for a tax return. Sure, they discussed clickbait topics like Roth conversions and investing in cryptocurrencies, but when she asked her advisor what tax bracket she was in or how to get health insurance prior to age 65, she was met with a blank stare. While financial planning covers much more than simply managing investments, I view wealth management as truly turning over every leaf in search of opportunities to catapult a client's wealth. Today, I welcome the brain trust at Keeler and Nadler.

Andy Keeler:

Abby Rose, Jessica Hultberg and Mark Beaver for a bit of an advisor roundtable to share some stories about the white glove wealth management we provide for clients. So, Abby, I'll start with you. Abby's our Director of Tax and on episode one, our maiden voyage, she boldly shared a case that has become known in the office as the $28,500 mistake. Abby, can you give us a quick rundown on what that was all about?

Abby Rose :

Sure. So we have a client that we do a lot of tax planning for, like a lot of our clients here, and we had been running tax projections throughout the year, doing Roth conversions, donor advice, fund contributions for charitable donations, and we got a email from her saying that her CPA told her that she owed twenty four thousand dollars. Okay, when they filed her extension. So obviously it brought a lot of pause because we do all this planning and having that much owed is a little shocking. So we asked for a copy of the draft, we reviewed it and it turns out that the CPA did not enter the estimated tax payment we made for her or the charitable donation. So after fixing that, we went to the CPA and we said, hey, here's the documentation. She went from owing $24,000 to getting a $4,500 refund just from reviewing the tax return before it was filed. That's a biggie!

Andy Keeler:

I'd like to be able to do that for every client.

Abby Rose :

Right.

Andy Keeler:

What are some other unique situations you've helped clients navigate?

Abby Rose :

So a little bit of everything. I think that's one thing that we pride ourselves on is you know everything. Every decision you make is kind of financial related. So we've done things from you know rental properties, evaluating the cost benefit of a rental property from you know rental properties, evaluating the cost benefit of a rental property. We do a lot of IRMAA planning, which is Medicare premiums.

Andy Keeler:

So explain what that means?

Abby Rose :

So Medicare? If you make more, Medicare charges you more. So that's the income related Medicare adjustment. So the more you make, the more they want from you for a Medicare premium. Wouldn't you think everybody would want to make more money? You would think, and it's not a bad thing, but you're going to pay a lot back to Medicare because of it. So there's a lot of planning strategies, tax strategies, that we can do to kind of get you in a lower Medicare premium long term.

Andy Keeler:

So, Jessica, you shared your credit card and travel points secrets on episode six. I think, beyond offering clients a device on how to leverage those points and stuff like that, can you share some other unique scenarios that you've had with clients?

Jessica Hultberg:

Sure, while I love saving money and building up my points and getting things for free and trips and cash back, that's more so like a hobby. I love working with clients. I love getting into the deep financial planning, you know, not just Roth conversions, tax planning, education planning, but, you know, even getting into estate planning, which I know is pretty boring for a lot of people. But just recently I asked a client for their estate planning documents, specifically their powers of attorney. The last one that we had on file, I think, was from 2006. So that's pretty old.

Jessica Hultberg:

If you go to a bank or a financial institution and try to provide a power of attorney document, a lot of times they don't want to accept one that's really older than three to five years. So that's something we want to check on because, God forbid, something happens to somebody. They think they have everything in order and then they go to act on their power of attorney document and the company will not accept it. So that's one reason. Another reason we've had clients who unexpectedly go to the hospital or something and they can't find their power of attorney documents anywhere. So we have them on file at our office that we can easily provide them, fax them, scan them to people. We've also had situations where clients don't have a successor agent listed for their power of attorney. So we've had situations where we need to get money to a spouse and the other spouse is the one who's incapacitated and there's nobody that can sign off for them in the document. So there'll be a situation where a client needs money and there's nobody that has the power.

Andy Keeler:

So the client that needs money is married. That client's incapacitated, so one would think their spouse would make decisions because they've named the spouse as the agent. But that spouse is incapacitated too. Big problem.

Jessica Hultberg:

Yeah, yeah, big problem. Another one would be Medicaid. We don't do Medicaid planning necessarily, but I have a client that we did a financial plan for. We had everything in place for them to retire, with their goals, time horizon, et cetera.

Jessica Hultberg:

And within like a year or two of meeting this client, they found out that her husband had had a stroke. They didn't know that it happened. They finally got him to the doctor. Long story short, he had to go into memory care, assisted living. They had enough money, so why would you look for Medicaid to apply or anything? So they weren't doing it.

Jessica Hultberg:

Well, it was depleting her account. She was taking $6,000 a month out and she was supposed to be retiring within a year or two. So she met with a law attorney and they said there was really nothing that she could be doing. So it was driving me nuts because he didn't really have any assets. But she did. We brought it back up again a couple of years ago, had a couple more referral sources to get her help and she is going to be approved for Medicaid. She has to get the proper documentation involved, but she's now she's going to be going from taking 10% of her account out of her IRA to maybe 3% or 4% and will go back to retiring within a year or two rather than continue to work as long as he lived.

Andy Keeler:

All right.

Abby Rose :

So just to add to that, we've been sitting in a lot of client meetings with estate attorneys. So that's something that I think clients appreciate because they don't know what to even ask. But recently I've gotten a lot of feedback from the attorney saying you have no idea how helpful it is to have the financial advisor involved in these meetings because it just streamlines the process so much. So that's a comment that I've actually heard a lot recently from the attorney side how helpful it is that, how involved we are.

Andy Keeler:

I have a school teacher that's retiring here in the next few months and in meeting with him I said have you set up a meeting with state teachers retirement? And he said not yet. And I said when you do, I'd like to go. He said "really. And I said yeah, I do it for all my clients. And he set the appointment and circled back and he said are you sure you want to go? Because I don't want to put you out. And he said if you can just give me a list of questions to ask, I'm happy to ask those questions. And I said it's kind of a freewheeling process. When you sit down with them, the conversation will go in different directions and you'll cover a lot of different topics and I kind of know what you might want to ask about if you haven't asked. So you know it's these kinds of things that are what I would consider to be outside the norm.

Jessica Hultberg:

I just wanted to touch on one more thing. The reason of bringing up the estate planning and Medicaid stuff is they might not be math equations and numbers and projections, but it just shows how much we care about our clients and how much we really want to make sure that they are set up for success.

Mark Beaver:

And not only did you help facilitate those things, you also helped implement them, and I think that's a really huge part of what we do. That gets maybe under mentioned is, you know, people are busy. They've got other things that they're worried about. I'll get around to it. You know is kind of a thing that I mean. I know I do that in other areas of my life too. So, yes, I did this great estate plan, but if you don't change your beneficiaries or change titling on accounts, it didn't mean anything, you know. So sometimes it's us helping make sure these things get done.

Andy Keeler:

I call that cracking the whip and some clients when I say that, do you need us to crack the whip? They say, "we would love you to.

Abby Rose :

Yeah, please, it holds everybody accountable. You know it holds everybody accountable to get it processed correctly and on time.

Andy Keeler:

Absolutely. And we were just hearing from Mark to kind of piggyback on what he said. We had a client come in and we asked them about a state plan and they said, oh, we just did all that stuff. And I said, okay, you know, we'd like to see documents. Okay, here are the documents. And when they said they did all that stuff, they did the documents. But they didn't. If they created a trust, they did create a trust. They didn't change any of the ownership of any of their accounts to the trust. So they essentially paid, I think, $2,500 for a piece of paper that serves absolutely no purpose because none of their assets were actually connected to it. So a good follow through, mark. So Mark's been a regular on our podcast. He leads our investment committee. He's been advising clients for what? 13 years. Sure, close enough. Okay, something like that.

Andy Keeler:

What are some of the random issues you've helped clients navigate?

Mark Beaver:

You know one that I recall. That was an interesting one. We were looking at social security income strategies for a client and this is back when we had a little bit more tools in our tool belt, so to speak, with Social Security. But we came up with a really good strategy where they could get some extra benefits, just the way they had things set up. So I laid it out. You're going to file this way.

Mark Beaver:

Then this is going to happen, this is going to happen, you know, timelined out and I got an email a week later saying, hey, we just talked to social security and they said we can't do any of the things you said. And I had a little freak out moment, like I hope I was right, you know. So I'm scrambling around looking at the social security website, digging through things and eventually verified everything that I said was accurate. I actually called Social Security, which everyone knows is a fun multi-hour process. They told me "well, you could do this one, but you can't do that. That part, which I also knew, was not correct.

Mark Beaver:

So ultimately we went to the local Social Security office together, kind of like you do with the pension programs, and we sat down with someone. Luckily, our local office is really great here. We went through it and they said, yep, all of that checks out, you can do everything just as you planned. And so if they would have just taken that first phone call from Social Security at face value and said, oh, I guess we can't do that, it would have been tens of thousands of dollars of benefits they wouldn't have gotten. So it was nice to kind of see that all the way through and it was obviously reassuring to know that I wasn't wrong with that first recommendation. That was kind of scary, but you know, kind of going pushing and going a little extra on that.

Andy Keeler:

It's as Jessica said earlier. You know we really care about maximizing a client's wealth, yes, and so I mentioned financial planning and I also mentioned wealth management. Those are concepts or titles that are thrown around. What does a realtor do? A realtor buys and sells houses. That's pretty much all they do. What does a financial advisor do? A lot of people associate that with investment management. That's my broker or my investment guy.

Andy Keeler:

Is financial planning? Investments, retirement, tax estate, risk management, insurance, education, planning Is it all those things? Is it more than that? I believe wealth management is all those things, plus ancillary issues like the things that we're talking about here, such as buying a vacation home, investing in real estate whether that's the rental properties, like Abby said or buying a commercial building to have their business in, buying or leasing a car, evaluating a business opportunity, evaluating an offer for employment. So you're terminated, you're a C-suite executive, you've got your feelers out and you're getting offers. We evaluate those offers for clients and we've even gotten on the phone with HR directors and gone to bat for clients, helping them negotiate for higher pay. As my dad said, "saying it and doing it are two different things Saying you're a wealth manager or a financial planner and actually doing the work and all of the things that we do to help maximize a client's net worth or their wealth. There's a very, very big difference.

Mark Beaver:

Yeah, I think you bring a really good point about all those different areas of financial planning and how we look at it, as sometimes I say it's all or nothing. I don't want to just have your investment account and go with that. I want to know as much as I possibly can, because all these random stories that we share and we love the random stories because it's like that weird tool that you have in the back of your shed that you finally got to use, kind of thing you know, so it's exciting for us. You don't get to do that unless you know when that's appropriate to use or not you know, so we have to really know as much as we can. I know you've used the analogy of going to the doctor's office and they're not just going to prescribe medicine without knowing more about your health, your background.

Andy Keeler:

Taking your temperatures.

Mark Beaver:

Yeah, so that's how we look at it is. We need to have as much of a comprehensive view of your money world as we can to help you make decisions in all these different areas, because they are very interconnected. So I like to say, think of a board with a bunch of gears on it that are all connected. You turn one and five other ones turned as well, and did you like the way that those other five moved?

Andy Keeler:

So that's a great analogy.

Mark Beaver:

You know, and I think a lot of our stories and things we talk about here are tax related and taxes is often that common thread that weaves across all of these. So we really lean into the tax planning element because we think it's extremely valuable, where a lot of advisors sort of back off of that. So we're not your accountant, you know, but we know that taxes are vital in all these decisions.

Abby Rose :

Yeah, and everybody's plan is different. It's personal to them, it's personal to their family. So it's not a cookie cutter blanket, you know. Financial planning, wealth management, it's. Everybody is so different and every situation is so unique. To Mark's point if you don't have a big picture of every single facet of their life, you know, as fiduciaries, we're not doing right by the client at that point. You know, if we don't have a full understanding of their entire life, I feel we definitely have very difficult emotional conversations with clients too.

Jessica Hultberg:

I've had some clients come in recently who are in the middle of going through a divorce and you know it's emotional, it's a touchy subject. You don't want to ask questions and then them think you're trying to get too much into their personal life. But again, the more that we know, the more we can do for them. One example I'll share. Unfortunately, there's just been several divorces I've been hearing about recently and they have children, young children, and the husband might be the breadwinner for these relationships and they're helping with paying for things. I said, "how are you going to pay for college? Or what are your goals for that? And they say they're going to, they're going to pay for all their tuition, they're going to, you know, cover this and this until until they're out of college.

Jessica Hultberg:

And I say, well, what happens if something happens to that person? You know, maybe it's they, just they went against what they said before. But what if they get in a car accident? And you and I have had this handshake. You need to have this in writing. Maybe you should have a life insurance policy where the ex-spouse is the beneficiary of that life insurance policy and those funds are for the kids' college.

Andy Keeler:

That's great.

Jessica Hultberg:

So that's just another example of the tough conversations.

Andy Keeler:

And someone that's listening may say, based on some of the conversations we had a few minutes ago well, my advisor asked for my tax return. He looks at my tax return, or she looks at my tax return. They have my estate documents. It's really these ancillary things probing a little bit more, like to your point, the divorce, as opposed to just saying, "oh okay, we're happy to help separate the accounts. You're going above and beyond, and what we hear from a lot of prospects is well, my advisor doesn't do that. My advisor doesn't look at my tax return. My advisors never looked at my estate planning documents. So the question becomes what are you paying that person for the advice that you are given Now, as comprehensive or not as it is? What are you paying them? We've uncovered a firm out in California that's charging one and a half percent to manage investments with no mention of financial planning whatsoever. And for those of you that are in the Midwest, actually everybody should remember this or go back to the history books.

Andy Keeler:

Jesse Owens was an Olympic runner back, I think, in the 20s, 1920s, and then more recently, we have Carl Lewis. There are a lot of even more recent sprinters, but none of them really have a name that I recognize. So if you had Jesse Owens and Carl Lewis run around a track 10 times, they'd tie like five times and the other five. One would win, the other would win. It'd be pretty much a toss-up. But if you gave Jesse Owens a 150-pound weighted vest and Carl Lewis an 85-pound weighted vest, who do you think would finish the race most or all of the time?

Andy Keeler:

What does Jesse win if he comes in first? Average investment performance. And Carl? He not only wins the race but he gets tax advice, estate planning advice, help planning with his kids' college and an advisor he can rely on to help him with the most complicated financial decisions. And you might be asking the question well, what is 85 pounds? 150 pounds, that equates to the fees that you're paying your advisor. So if you're paying an advisor 150 basis points to do only investment management and getting nothing else, versus paying an advisor 85 basis points but getting all those things, who's going to be in a better position over the long term and have a higher degree of wealth? For those with an advisor who say, but I don't need help with tax or estate planning, I would respond, why are you paying your advisor over 1%? Because you're not getting any of that stuff.

Mark Beaver:

A common conversation I have with new clients or prospective clients just trying to describe all of these things to them. A lot of them will come in here with some sort of retirement planning objective or concern and I say, hey, here's what I mean when I say we do tax planning. You know, it's not uncommon for someone to come in here and they've saved diligently over their career. Everything's in their IRA or 401k. You know that's just kind of almost the American way. At this point they want to retire and they need, say, $10,000 a month, $120,000 a year. Let's just say that that works for their portfolio. No problem, If they need that $120,000 a year, it's really like $150,000 a year after taxes.

Mark Beaver:

So not horrible. You're in the 22% tax bracket. Could be worse things in the world. But if we do some planning ahead of time so that let's just say, of that $10,000, eight of it comes from the IRA or the 401k and the rest of it comes from either Roth or after tax money, Same $10,000 a month to them. They don't care how they got it, but they're probably going to pay an effective tax rate of like 7% just because we took it from different sources that weren't all taxable to them.

Jessica Hultberg:

And let's circle that back to the Medicare and IRMA A that Abby was talking about earlier. Just by doing that, staying under a certain income threshold is what keeps you from getting that premium adjustment with Medicare. So taking from a Roth one year for that last distribution might keep you under from paying an extra $300 per month in Medicare premiums.

Mark Beaver:

And so I've kind of laid that out. In different scenarios and in different cases it's been tens of thousands of dollars of difference in taxes for the same amount of retirement income, and they've looked at that and said, well, that more than pays for your fees. It's like, yes, it does, but there's more to it than just that even.

Abby Rose :

Yeah, even like the Medicare premiums. I mean, if we can keep somebody in a lower Medicare premium that pays our fee sometimes, or at least a portion of it. Yeah, you know, we had a client last year. We were running tax projections throughout the year. Some of the dividends were maybe a little bit higher than we had initially thought in the beginning of the year. So we came to them and we said if we take your last two months distributions from your trust, like Mark said, we can save you about $5,000 a year by keeping you in a lower Medicare or my bracket. And we can save you about $5,000 a year by keeping you in a lower Medicare IRMA bracket. And they said -- sold. I mean, why not? It doesn't do any difference to our retirement planning, we still get the same amount of money. We're just saving money with the Medicare premiums.

Mark Beaver:

And the part you can't quantify as easily is just the fact that they can know that somebody's doing that all the time for them and taking care of it, watching out for them. You know there's a value to that. That. I can't put a dollar sign necessarily on, but I think our clients appreciate that they can offload that burden. You know it's not even a burden to us, but like they can offload that to us and know we're going to handle it. We've had some clients we pay their tax estimates for them directly to the IRS, things like that. They've got better things to do, you know. Spend time with their family, do the traveling you want. You know that's more valuable to your life than trying to figure out Irma brackets. And you know, not everybody's as nerdy about that as we are. So we actually enjoy that, believe it or not, but we like it. We can do it faster, better. Let us handle those things and you can do something else.

Abby Rose :

Yeah, I think we even have a couple of clients that are, you know, quote unquote, do- it- yourselfers, where they probably know enough about the market that they could do the investing themselves. But to Mark's point, they trust us enough and they like to bounce ideas off of us and they don't have the time or the energy to do the tax planning and the retirement planning. So to them it's a no-brainer to pay the fee, because they get all of these things in addition to that, plus the reassurance.

Andy Keeler:

Yeah, we have two clients that are former investment bankers; clearly smart, financially savvy people, but they may not have even known what IRMAA was. Right Back to the tax and the concept of looking at the tax return. So we have a prospective client that invested $20,000 in NVIDIA probably 15 years ago. Two weeks ago it was worth $4 million Not anymore, but not a current client, prospective client. Two-thirds of her $6 million is in NVIDIA, recently retired, and I said, "did you know that there is a 0% capital gains tax rate? And she said no, I figured, when you sell a stock for a gain, you pay taxes on it.

Andy Keeler:

Not necessarily we can generate $90,000 of income and you'll have no tax sold. But she is so attached to that stock because it went from $20,000 to $4 million, she's hesitant to sell it. That may have changed in recent weeks because it was only going up and now we see there's some chinks in that armor. But the other thing is, if you think it's going to continue to go up, 90,000 of 4 million is 2.5%. If it goes up by more than 2.5% a year, it's breaking even or just keeping the same value.

Mark Beaver:

Back to your earlier point about the 1.5% for investment advice only scenarios, whatever the number is. Sometimes I've even described it as just using kind of the stereotypical 1% fee that's out there. A lot, I would say, of that. The investment management part might be 0.25% of that, and this is coming from the investment guy in the firm. I like this stuff, but I certainly don't think anybody paying one plus percent is worth that for investment management in this day and age. So it is a portion of what we do. Absolutely, we think we do a good job at it. Of course we keep expenses low, but that's maybe a quarter of our value that we bring. The rest of it is all these things that we're talking about here.

Andy Keeler:

And I think there are some large mutual fund companies or investment companies that offer financial planning via an 800 number. I think they're charging a quarter of a percent or maybe 0.35. They're doing mostly asset allocation. Abby, you had a recent situation where a client called you and asked if she should invest in a friend's manufacturing business. Do you think that that is something that this large mutual fund company a random person probably has been there for three to five years hasn't even decided? What they want to be when they grow up might not be there next week.

Abby Rose :

Yeah, probably not. No, I'd say they probably would say that's outside the scope of their understanding, and let alone you know what they're being paid. I'd also think these like 800 numbers, you know, are you guaranteed to get the same person every time you call?

Abby Rose :

No, you know because that's, I think, what's really important about what we do is we build these really long-term relationships with our clients. And you referenced friends. I think a lot of our clients become friends. They might start as friends and then become clients, or vice versa. You know a lot of the clients. They have young kids the same age as you know, Jess or I, or Mark and I, and we really relate to each other. So that's something that we've, you know, encountered a lot. But we build these relationships and trust with people that calling an 800 number just doesn't have.

Jessica Hultberg:

I don't know if this fits exactly talking about the finances of it, the culture, just everything. A client thought, why don't we have Jessica come in and sit and talk with her (daughter), come to the house and at the kitchen table and just talk about whatever she wants to? Maybe maybe, since she's younger and a little bit more hip than we are, she'll listen to them and a little bit.

Jessica Hultberg:

Yeah, just a little bit. So anyway it was. It was interesting. I had not done that before. I've gone to clients houses to help with other situations, but just the fact it was a daughter. It was a really nice compliment that they wanted me to come there and sit and talk to their daughter to go to college and they respected what I would say to her.

Andy Keeler:

Thank you guys for sharing some examples. I remember, probably 20 years ago now, I got a call from I think she was 70 at the time she had moved into a condo, bought it brand new. Two years later, she called the office and said she needed $10,000. And I said, okay, no problem, what's it? What's, if I can ask what's it for? She said I need a new furnace and that didn't sound right to me. It was a brand new condo but HVAC guys told her she needed a new furnace. I said let me give you the number of someone that can give you a second opinion. Person goes out, looks at the furnace. They said you need $150 part.

Andy Keeler:

I've had situations where clients have called with lease terminations and gotten $2,500 bills in the mail for excess damages. I've gone and looked at those cars to kind of self-evaluate, does this pass the sniff test? It did. I had a client that had cracks in their basement foundation. I crawled into their crawl space, looked at it and said you know, I think it's major structural or you know, not that I'm an engineer, but the fact that clients would respect our opinions that much and the work that we do that kind of thing. It's just like second nature for us.

Andy Keeler:

No questions asked. If you need it and you know, it's like a person that is drowning and they put their hand up asking for help, it could be a complete stranger. What are you going to do? Yes, is the answer. It's always - yes. So thanks, guys, for chipping in today and, as always, we thank our listeners. Be sure to tune in next time when Mark and I talk about leveraged ETFs, a gimmick that promises to deliver two or more times the return of an index but sometimes fails to deliver. I'm Andy Keeler, and this is Financial Opportunities Uncovered brought to you by Keeler and Nadler Family Wealth. If you have questions on anything you heard in this episode, find out more on our website, KeelerNadler. com, and if you have an idea for future episodes or questions about what you've heard, connect with us on LinkedIn.

Mark Beaver:

The opinions expressed in this program are for general information purposes only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations. It is only intended to provide education about finance, tax, retirement and related planning topics. To determine which investment strategies are appropriate for you, consult your finance, tax or legal advisor prior to implementing. Any past performance discussed during this program is no guarantee of future results. Any indices referenced for comparison are unmanaged and cannot be invested into directly. As always, please remember, investing involves risk and possible loss of principle. Please seek advice from a licensed professional. Keeler and Nadler Family Wealth is a registered investment advisor. Advisory services are only offered to clients or prospective clients where Keeler and Nadler Family Wealth and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. No advice may be rendered by Keeler and Nadler Family Wealth unless a client service agreement is in place. Thank you.