Financial Opportunities Uncovered: A Keeler & Nadler Family Wealth Podcast

From Paychecks To Purpose:  Designing A Fulfilling Retirement

• Andy Keeler

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What if the most important part of retirement can’t be measured in dollars? Host, Andy Keeler sits down with certified retirement coaches Rita Gallagher and Rhonda Fekete to unpack the real levers of a fulfilling life after the paycheck: identity, purpose, health, and community. You’ll hear why many people plan a one-week vacation more carefully than their next 30 years.  Plus, how a few intentional choices can turn dread or boredom into energy and meaning.

We map out four common mindsets of people closing in or at retirement age:  can’t wait, I guess it’s time, my work is who I am and still engaged.   Andy, Rita and Rhonda then show how each one can become a successful path. Rita shares what a joyful retirement looks like in practice, from therapy dog visits and Meals on Wheels to a thriving pickleball tribe. Rhonda walks through a client story where phased work and clear boundaries transformed fear of losing relevance into a thriving consulting practice. Along the way, we dig into Blue Zones insights on social ties, the hidden cost of loneliness, and why mobility training might be the best travel insurance you’ll ever buy.

Expect practical prompts you can use now: who will you see each week, what will you learn, where will you serve, and how will you move your body and your brain? We also explore how non-financial coaching fits with financial planning.  Prime example — how to avoid the trap of hobby-only retirement plans that fizzle fast.

Whether you want to keep working on your terms or step into a new rhythm, this conversation helps you design a chapter worth waking up for.   If this resonates, follow the show, share it with someone wrestling with timing or identity, and tell us what purpose looks like for you.


The opinions expressed in this program are for general informational purposes only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations.

It is only intended to provide education about finance, tax, retirement and related planning topics. To determine which investments or strategies may be appropriate for you, consult your financial, tax or legal advisor prior to implementing. Any past performance discussed during this program is no guarantee of future results.

Any indices referenced for comparison are unmanaged and cannot be invested into directly. As always please remember investing involves risk and possible loss of principal capital; please seek advice from a licensed professional.

Keeler & Nadler Family Wealth is a registered investment adviser. Advisory services are only offered to clients or prospective clients where Keeler & Nadler Family Wealth and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. No advice may be rendered by Keeler & Nadler Family Wealth unless a client service agreement is in place.


Rethinking Retirement Beyond Money

Meet The Retirement Coaches

SPEAKER_03

What does retirement look like to you? Well, that is, if you can or want to imagine it. For some, the day that they leave the workforce can't come soon enough. The bucket list is endless, the pursuit of a hobby is beckoning. But for others, the thought of retirement is met with anxiety and apprehension. Work isn't just a job, it provides a sense of purpose. Today on Financial Opportunities Uncovered, we will discuss retirement not from the financial aspect, but from the softer side. Helping me understand the challenges faced by those nearing retirement are two certified retirement coaches, Rita Gallagher and Rhonda Fecketty. Welcome, ladies. Thank you. Thanks, Andy. So let's start with a little background. You are both certified retirement coaches. How did you get into that field?

SPEAKER_01

So, Andy, I was in the HR world for over 20 years when I discovered coaching as a way to develop associates in a productive, positive way. So I joined a local organization, International Coaching Federation, the local chapter here in Columbus. And through this organization, I met a cohort who was doing leadership coaching, consulting for a Fortune 100 financial services organization in Columbus. And they wanted to hire her as a full-time coach for the field of sales leadership team.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And then she asked me if I would be interested in doing the same for the sales leadership team and home office here in Columbus. So in 2007, I took the leap, which was a bit scary, to tell you the truth. But this is when I became a certified business coach through WABC, which is World Association of Business Coaches.

SPEAKER_03

So you're working for a Fortune 100 company. Correct. And you're essentially coaching employees of that company that were happen that were in the sales or marketing department. That's correct. Yes. Okay. And how about you, Rhonda?

Coaching Roots And Certifications

SPEAKER_02

Well, my interest in coaching first came about when I worked for Pricewaterhouse Coopers. Actually, it was Coopers on Liber in the legacy firm. And I had to hire a coach to work with one of our executives. Okay. And the transformation that I saw in what happened through coaching just piqued my interest. And that was probably 2005-ish. Um, and I decided to start looking into coaching myself. Fast forward years later, Labrita and I were on the board of the local International Coach Federation as board members for the local chapter. And Rita told me about retirement coaching. And years later as well, I ended up working for the same organization, the Fortune 100 Company, and in the area where she originally started. So I became a certified business coach. And it was while I was there that I actually Rita told me about her retirement coaching. And I went online and I'm looking for it. And I zap into it and I talk to the owner, and it wasn't who Rita went through, but after I told her, then she got the certified professional retirement coach designation from that same organization, which is through the Retirement Coaches Association.

What A Successful Retirement Looks Like

SPEAKER_03

Okay, gotcha. So it's interesting. You're working for Fortune 100 companies, coaching employees, helping them more or less be the best they can be in their career. Coaching is coaching. If Ted Lasso can coach football, he can coach soccer, right? So if you can coach an associate on how to be better at what they do at work, why not help a pre-retiree or a retiree be better at retirement? It's just a really interesting transition because you're you're helping people work better, work more efficiently, be more productive at work, and you're pivoting into um more or less putting that all behind you, turning a page and being productive in retirement. So, Rita, what does a successful retirement look like?

SPEAKER_01

So for me personally, a success, and I am retired, I do a little bit of consulting on the side, but a successful retirement to me is doing things that give me joy and that gives other people joy. For example, I do volunteer work, I work at the Bronan McDonald House, I do meals on wheels, I even have my dog Sophie as a therapy dog and we go places. So I love that kind of work. I also work out five days a week almost. Um, and I also love playing pickleball, of course. So I have my I have my tribe, I have my community for two hours this morning, FYI. So I so I have that. So I that there's all and I have, you know, two daughters and two grandkids. So I find that I have a lot of things out there that bring me joy and that I can bring joy to others. So that's kind of how I see a successful retirement.

SPEAKER_03

I will say for clients that have grandkids now, that is a life changer. And so for folks that are in their say 50s, 60s, and they're thinking, you know, I'll just work, I'll work until the day I die, you may be really missing out on something that is just a life-changing event. And so maybe think a little bit about your kids and your grandkids also when you're making these decisions.

SPEAKER_01

Right. I had a cousin who was a um, he was a manager of a restaurant for years. And as soon as he had his first grandson, he retired to help take care of him. So he was so excited about that. So yes, you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_03

So, Rhonda, when you meet somebody and you tell them you're a certified retirement coach, what's the response?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I would say that they probably don't want to ask me that unless they've got a half an hour because I tend to talk. And um, when I think about uh people asking me that question, I tell them it has nothing to do with their finances. So don't worry, I'm not gonna pry into spaces. But then I let them know that were they aware that most people spend more time planning a one-week vacation than they spend planning their retirement and think about that. Um, what are the implications and what are the negative things that might happen that if you don't put as much time thinking about and planning for those non-financial aspects of a retirement, what's the likelihood you're going to succeed?

Three Types Of Retirees

SPEAKER_03

That's a great point. So I'm interested in hearing about what the two of you have seen as you counsel your clients. But from my experience, those nearing retirement fall into three categories. Those that can't get to retirement fast enough because they've dreamt about retirement nonstop, going so far as downloading the app on their phone that counts the seconds until they're finally free to do what they want. Then there are the folks that retire, well, because it's just what people do at 65. These are the folks that try it, then realize they're bored, they might go back to work, or they lead a pretty unfulfilling retirement. They have nothing to retire to. Then there are those who have built their life around work. It's their identity, it's their sense of purpose. And beyond that, they wouldn't know how to pass the time. It would seem like this is where the two of you come in.

SPEAKER_02

Andy, I completely acknowledge those three categories. And if I may, I'll kind of simplify the language for our audience. I'll put them in three categories where I'll say we've got the I can't wait, folks. They're where retirement feels like freedom. Then there are the, I guess it's time folks, who step away and suddenly wonder, now what? And then the third category, and finally, my work is who I am, folks. And where retirement isn't just a transition, it's an identity shift. And that positions the the categories as just positions, not problems, just where they are, so that as coaches, we know where to meet them where they are, and that's where we decide where to start our coaching. So, Rita, I'll transition to you uh on other elements that are important.

SPEAKER_01

What I've seen throughout the years is that a majority of clients are very apprehensive about retiring, even if they think they have a plan. Um, any major transition certainly requires much thought and planning. So, you know, if you think about it, some of us may be spending more time in retirement than we did when we were working. Sure. Okay. I have a friend who she worked for 20 years for the state, started when she was 18, and she retired at 48, and she's now 69. Holy cow. Great. And so she still has many more years. So it's really very important that people think about what they're gonna do with all this time that they might have.

A Fourth Type: Still Engaged

SPEAKER_02

Andy, I would like to expand that framework if I could too. I I happen to think there's a fourth category, and I'll call that group the still engaged folks. Um, they love their work, they don't want to stop, and they actually have the FOMO, fear of missing out and a loss of relevance, and kind of a one-liner from that to think of them. They're not done. They just want to work to fit a different season of life in where they are now.

SPEAKER_03

When you say fear of missing out, fear of missing out on what? Just the opportunity to be free for a little while to do the things that they wanted, or what?

SPEAKER_02

No, just the opposite. Um, they work so much that their identity is wrapped up in who they are. And if they step away and can't have that relevance they had in whatever the work may have been, yeah, then to walk away from a client, say that they've worked with for 30 years and turn them over to somebody else, that's very scary for them. Um I see. Will the client stay with the organization? Will they be happy with whoever they transition to? So the fear of missing out is really what am I doing this for? Because I still want to do what I do, but I don't want to work this much now.

SPEAKER_03

I see.

Health, Fitness, And Readiness

SPEAKER_01

And also I'd like to I'd like to take a step back just for a second, too, and talk a little bit about what your plans are as you transition into retirement. So as far as your health goes, um, how well are you going to feel physically when you retire? Face it, if you don't feel good, it's hard to be motivated to do anything. So, do you want to travel? Okay. So if you want to go to Europe and you sign up for a walking tour, say you want to walk a walking tour in Rome that lasts for two hours, how are you gonna how are you gonna do uh walking on foot? Are you gonna be okay with that? Or maybe to the Tetons out west? Could you go on a hike like that? Um how do you feel after climbing a couple of flights of stairs right now? So be sure to work on your health. Um, I have a friend whose husband retired 10 or 15 years ago, and he didn't do very much physically at all even before he retired. And during retirement, he had heart issues, um, basically just sat around and watched TV. He didn't get up and walk around, and you know, he's like 79 years old right now, and he's just can't can't do can't do anything.

SPEAKER_03

So And she becomes limited as a result of that. You're sort of a hostage because he can't go anywhere. You are so right. So it would be important for her to have a good social network of girlfriends that she can do Italy with.

Community, Loneliness, And Blue Zones

SPEAKER_01

Right, she has us, and um she says, you know, they don't they don't do anything together like that. So that's very, very difficult. And the other thing I want to touch on when it comes to that is the importance of community. One of the most prevalent areas of longer life is having a community. And the book, The Blue Zones, talks about where people live to be over 100 years old. They say that one thing in common is that they have a tribe. And um, loneliness is very common for retirees, and with loneliness comes depression, which is the number one illness of those over the age of 65. Um, many people who reach retirement age decide to live to they decide to live in a retirement community, and these communities become their tribe with all sorts of activities and social gatherings, and so we hear stories about the people the snowbirds who go to Florida for the winter. But even here in Columbus, I have a friend who she recently married about three or four years ago, and her husband didn't have that many friends. He had his family and his grandchildren, but he didn't have a lot of friends. Well, he joined the Italian club, and so now he does bocce ball a couple days a week, and he and he goes on um, they meet for breakfast and they have um volunteer activities that they do. So be sure to nurture the friends that you have and to maybe even think about how you can make other friends and do other activities. So I think that's really, really important when you think about it.

SPEAKER_03

We talked about blue zones, I think it was episode two of this podcast. Um, and recently the city of Dublin here um conducted a community health needs assessment. One of the issues that kind of rose to the top was residents feeling isolated. And um, you know, when when you're in your 30s, 40s, you're raising a family, the schools become kind of a social network because your kids are in sports, you meet other parents. But for folks that don't have kids in schools, maybe they're they're a widow or widower, they're sort of isolated, they just don't have that. And as you point out, one of the determinants of longevity is being socially active. That's one one reason I think the villages in Florida is so so successful.

SPEAKER_02

I'm I'm laughing because I know some stories about the villages.

SPEAKER_03

We won't get into those.

Phased Work And Boundaries

SPEAKER_02

No, we won't, will we? We will not. Okay. Uh Andy, I'll share a story about the still-engaged group, uh, a real client that I had. Um, and the example that stands out is a change management consultant I worked with who loved her work, and but she really had a fear of walking away when I was describing to you the fear of missing out. Um and she also had a concern that she wouldn't be able to protect her boundaries. Rather than an all or nothing retirement, um, we focused her coaching on identifying options, um, preparing for a reduced work schedule, a conversation with her employer about the possibility of doing that, and getting clear on what she was and wasn't willing to give up. And that included um benefits as well as clients. So boundaries were really key to her so that phasing out for her didn't quietly turn back into full time. And she was really concerned about doing that. And I gave her a quick fix on where to start with that. Um, in the end, what she ended up doing was launching her own consulting practice. And with support from her employer and a key client, she eased into retirement while continuing the work that she loved on her terms. And my suggestion to her about how she could help protect those boundaries. Um, I I happen to work three days a week. I'm one of those people that's in the still-engaged group, so I can speak to this very clearly. I have on my signature block, if anyone gets an email from me, they will see that I work Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. And I have been pretty rigid about that. I do make exceptions where it makes sense to do so. But when I told her that, I said, How does that feel for you? Could you do that? And she said, I think I can.

Turning Anxiety Into Options

SPEAKER_03

So it's common, and I would say it's sort of a luxury for those that can kind of transition from working for somebody else to working in the now gig economy. It's a huge, huge deal. We work with a lot of, say, CFOs, accounting background folks, finance background folks, HR background folks. And there, there's a you know, a huge universe of companies out there that aren't big enough to have a full-time CFO or a full-time HR person. So if that's something that you enjoy doing and you want to keep your foot in the water, you can do that. But you're your own boss, you make your own hours, you have time for pickleball on Fridays and working Monday through or Tuesday through Thursday.

SPEAKER_02

Well, my Mondays and Fridays, um, we're talking about longevity. I have a father who is 92, will be 93 this year, and I've been able to take him on trips uh to the beach in Alabama, to Hilton Head, um different places. Took him on a train ride to West Virginia. He had never been on a train and he was 92. Wow. Um, so we did an all-day train ride uh that had breakfast, lunch, and dinner on the train. That's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, I had a client too that um he was that category of um, I guess it's time to retire. It's yep, I'm getting I'm getting to that old. He was the oldest manager where he was working. People were asking him when he was going to retire. He talked about it for like a year. And then when we talked, we talked about the transition and what that would look like. Well, as we went through different things, luckily he had a girlfriend who loved to travel. So that was something that he was looking forward to. He too had a father that was in his 90s and who lived close by, so he knew he could spend a lot more time with his dad. Um, he had a daughter who lived in Arizona with three kids, and he used to visit her, so now he could visit her longer and not worry about getting back and being on vacation. Um, and then he had a brother in Charleston, West uh South Carolina. I mean, how nice is that? And he liked to fish with him. Um and then he also we talked about the fact he loves playing his guitar and he could spend more time doing that. So, you know, all in all, as we got through things, he's like, oh my gosh, there's plenty of things to do. And, you know, it really helped him to kind of look at all that beforehand and not feel so anxious about saying, Okay, I've got my date set. Okay, so now I'm more excited about doing that.

Is Retirement Coaching Catching On

SPEAKER_03

So I became aware of certified retirement coaches really from U2, probably it'd say eight, maybe ten years ago. I think I had you speak with a group of clients at one at one time, but it seemed like, at least from my point of view, um my perspective, the thought never seemed to really catch on. But recently I was having a conversation with a client in Texas that works for a Fortune 100 company that provides um reimbursements for financial planning. So part of our fee is paid for by his company. And he's retiring this year, and he said, I'm meeting with a certified retirement coach. And I thought, this must be actually catching on and gaining ground. Um it's not uncommon for folks to not have hobbies and and really, you know, work is their life. They get up, they have their cup of coffee, hop in the car, go to work, work eight to ten hours a day, get back in the car, drive home, have dinner, watch a couple of Netflix shows and go to bed, and then rewind. Um Groundhog Day. Yeah, exactly. Rinse and repeat. And and it's like they they just don't have anything else outside of that. So are you finding that this concept is catching on? And are you aware of companies actually offering this as a benefit to their employees?

Corporate Role And Layoff Support

SPEAKER_02

I can tell you that I attend the monthly retirement coaches um program. It's once a month they meet. And I'm not hearing of a lot of companies, but uh to your point, you were talking about the financial advisor using this. You might be surprised to find out how many people are actually financial advisors that are retiring and becoming certified retirement coaches themselves. Okay. There you go. Um, I've had conversations with at least four of them directly. Okay. Um, and they're doing it for a number of reasons because they've learned that in providing these services to their clients, they also have that same need. And who better to become a retirement coach in financial planning than a former financial planner themselves?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um, it would seem like some of these companies, if especially if they're sort of forcing layoffs, and it's forcing layoffs for those senior uh folks, the C-suite executives or you know, folks that have been there for 40 years, their higher income. It would seem like it would be appropriate for them to help those folks, especially ones that are apprehensive about retirement, that wouldn't have retired if they weren't forced out. They don't know what what they're planning on doing. This was kind of thrust upon them. So it would seem as though companies really should be embracing this to help prepare those people that hopefully they care for. They've been part of their company for 30, 40 years. You don't just throw them to the wolves.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it's interesting though, and I know you experience this, Rita. We'll not talk about where, um, reaching out to HR to try to get them to understand the importance of this for their own employees and offering this kind of information to employees a couple of years before they're eligible to retire.

SPEAKER_03

Makes total sense.

SPEAKER_02

But no one has latched onto it. It doesn't make sense. But what you described is makes me think of uh outsourcing. When someone is laid off, outsourcing benefits are packaged. This is a great idea. That I never even thought about. So thanks for the idea.

How Retirement Coaching Is Priced

SPEAKER_03

Again, it makes perfect sense. Um I know some companies years ago used to more or less have workshops for people that they were letting go on, okay, where do you get health insurance? What how what do you do with your 401k? What about your deferred compensation plan? You know, what happens as opposed to just saying, you know, we're going to pay you six months severance, goodbye, you're on your own, leaving people sort of high and dry.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Plus, they also would offer places where they can find, you know, work.

SPEAKER_03

So kind of thinking through how someone actually engages your services, what how does the process work? Are you doing uh fee for service? Is it, you know, hour consultations almost like someone would meet with a counselor or therapist? How does that work?

Don’t Waste A Well-Funded Life

SPEAKER_02

I can speak to what I did with the most recent retirement client. Um, at the time, I had not yet revised my website, and I used to post what I charge for a minimum on my website. I don't anymore because I consider it to be customized individual coaching. So everything is different. In general, coaches can charge an hourly, but I prefer to think of it as what is the outcome you're working toward and what is it worth to you to get to there? And let's talk about what all of your issues are and decide what makes sense, and then I can structure a price and a proposal.

SPEAKER_03

You know, when I think of some of my clients that are very financially savvy and with us and the attorneys and the CPAs, we've dotted every I and crossed every T. Um, we've addressed things like how they're going to pay for long-term care, whether it's self-insuring or buying private insurance. We've we've covered health insurance, where they're going to get that from if they retire before the age of 65. We've covered all these things. These are folks that are generally highly educated, uh, they're generally highly compensated. It would seem to me that to work so hard for so long, scrolling away so much money, only to have a miserable retirement, it just doesn't compute. So it would seem like common sense that if you've invested all this money on the front end, if you're uncertain about how you're going to spend your time in retirement and where you're going to get your sense of purpose and your enjoyment from, you should probably be thinking about this and investing some, investing some hard dollars. It's an investment in probably, as Rita said, could be another 30 years of your life.

Purpose, Hobbies, And Traps

SPEAKER_01

Right. And you know, you are in a good position to ask people that question, you know, as they and don't wait until it's like two months away, maybe a a year or two before they decide that they're gonna do that. You usually know based on their financials when they want to retire. And just ask them that question. How much thought have they given this? Because, you know, you don't want to wait. You want to be thinking about that and having an idea, and then you start to look forward to it. And that really, really helps a lot. And also the people that have already retired out there that are struggling, um, and maybe they haven't come up with that purpose, and maybe they need a coach to help them, you know, figure that out, talk about it and go through that whole process. So, you know, you are in a good position to just ask that question. It's because it is really important. You're right. They don't want to have to suffer and not be happy. You know, they we talk about happiness, and I also have the uh blue zones on happiness. And they talk about the fact that, you know, all these things are so important, but they say that actually having a purpose will add like up to eight years on your life, right?

SPEAKER_03

I believe it.

SPEAKER_01

Right? So it's really important. Maybe you could even like ask them that question.

Redefining Work To Fit Life

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, uh, you know, most most of my clients really don't have a hard time imagining how they want to spend their time. Um, I I would say I have kind of two examples where they were, I would say, complicated or difficult. One was someone that thought they would just golf all the time. Well, that got old really fast. And within probably six months, they were looking to go back to work someplace. And then the second one was uh an individual I worked with starting when he was probably 45. He was an owner in a business. There were two owners, partners in this business, and he did have hobbies early on in life. He he raced motorcycles and raced cars. Um, but as time went on and he became a little less brave of uh the speed, I guess, he really just worked. And being an owner in a business, age 70, we were still having conversations about, you know, when are you going to retire? And the the answer that I've gotten when I've asked that question of folks like this, I asked the same question of a professor. And he said, What am I retiring to? And and what am I what am I retiring from? I enjoy what I do, so why should I retire? And that how do you argue with that? Um, the problem was that both of these gentlemen were married and their spouses were sort of stuck. They they couldn't go to Italy or France or travel the world because their husband was at work all the time and really didn't want to go anywhere. And then when they finally come to the realization that it's time, their health failed them and they didn't enjoy it at all. Um, I I've had clients that died within a month, six months, or a year of their final retirement date. So, you know, you really need to start thinking about earlier on.

SPEAKER_02

You just talked about something that I was gonna wait and uh I'll bring it in now if it's okay. Uh, for the audience in that still-engaged group, which this individual you described certainly is, the reflective question I would ask those people in that category is what do I want to keep doing because it gives me energy? And what am I ready to let go of so work fits the life I want now? So that individual could still do something similar to what I am. He doesn't have to work five days a week, but is there something he could do in one or two days and still be able to travel with his wife and do those things?

SPEAKER_03

That makes a ton of sense.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, Rita and Rhonda, thank you. I'm Andy Keeler and this is Financial Opportunities Uncovered, brought to you by Keeler and Adler Family Wealth. If you would like to contact either Rita or Rhonda, or if you have an idea for a future episode, connect with us on LinkedIn or email me at Andy.keeler at Knwealth.com.

SPEAKER_00

The opinions expressed in this program are for general information purposes only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations. It is only intended to provide education about finance, tax, retirement, and related planning topics. To determine which investment strategies are appropriate for you, consult your finance, tax, or legal advisor prior to implementing. Any past performance discussed during this program is no guarantee of future results. Any indices referenced for comparison are unmanaged and cannot be invested into directly. As always, please remember investing involves risk and possible loss of principle. Please seek advice from a licensed professional. Keeler and Adler Family Wealth is a registered investment advisor. Advisory services are only offered to clients or prospective clients where Keeler and Adler Family Wealth and its representatives are property licensed or exempt from licensure. No advice may be rendered by Keeler and Adler Family Wealth unless a client service agreement is in place.