Past Present Feature with Marcus Mizelle
Past Present Feature is a film appreciation podcast hosted by Emmy-winning director Marcus Mizelle, showcasing today’s filmmakers, their latest release, and the past cinema that inspired them.
Past Present Feature with Marcus Mizelle
E16 • Challenging The System • BÁLINT SZIMLER, dir. of ‘Lesson Learned’ at the Locarno Film Festival
Marcus speaks with Bálint Szimler about his feature film ‘Lesson Learned’, which just premiered at the Locarno Fim Festival. The discussion also touches on the films that most inspired him - 'Play' by Ruben Östlund and 'Family Nest' by Béla Tarr.
Bálint dives in to the inspiration behind his film, and the challenges of the Hungarian educational system. He also talks about his approach to storytelling and the importance of realistic and character-driven films. He shares insights into his scriptwriting process, the use of improvisation in his films, the importance of passion and dedication, and the collective effort of the cast and crew. Bálint also speaks on the significance of honoring the craft, and the decision to shoot on 16mm film - collaborating with cinematographer Marcell Rév of Euphoria fame.
The conversation also touches on the themes of living in the moment, the value of limitations, the rewards of filmmaking, and challenging the systems in place.
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Marcus Mizelle (00:17)
to the Past Present Feature podcast.
MM (00:19)
today's episode, I speak with Balint Zemmler about his feature film Lesson Learned,
at the Locarno Film Festival in Switzerland.
The discussion touches on the films that most inspired him, are Play by Robin and Family Nest by Hungarian filmmaker Bela Tarr.
Balint dives into the inspiration behind his and the challenges of the Hungarian educational He also talks about his approach to storytelling and the importance of realistic and character -driven films.
his scriptwriting the use of improv in his films, the importance of passion and and the collective effort of the cast and crew. Ballant also speaks on the significance of honoring the craft the decision to shoot on 16 -millimeter
collaborating with cinematographer Marcel Rev of Euphoria fame.
The also touches on the themes of living in the the value of limitations, the rewards of filmmaking, And challenging the systems in place.
Marcus Mizelle (01:10)
the Locarno Film Festival is a major international film festival held annually in Locarno, Switzerland. Founded in 1946, the festival screens films in various competitive and non -competitive sections, including feature -length narrative, documentary, short, avant -garde, and retrospective programs.
and just looking at the location and looking at the setup. Damn. It's amazing. I've been there in 2008, but I was just a guest, so I didn't have a film there or anything. I enjoyed it really much. It's like a huge lake under the mountains, and it's really awesome location. Did you tell yourself when you were there the first time that I'm going to be back with my own film? No. I mean, I probably thought about it, but I never really said it out loud. So your film, the American title is Lesson Learned? Yeah.
Got it. And how do you pronounce that in a native tongue? We have a different title in Hungarian. OK. And what's the Hungarian title? The Hungarian is called Fekete Pont, which is like, it's basically we have a system in school that you get like a black dot or a black mark if you're behaving bad. then you collect, someone else collects the black dots for you. And then if you collect like five black marks, then you get another punishment. And if you collect another five black marks. So it's like it's
basically a form of punishment in a way. But you can also think about it in other aspects. It says black marks. It's sort of like a black mark on Hungarian society right now. Wow, that's crazy. It's like an opposite version of like our star system in elementary school. Do you have that too? No. Like it's almost like a reward system where we're from as far as... Maybe sometimes too much positive reinforcement, you know? But it's like, you get a star because you did good here. Yeah.
I mean, we have red marks as well. So if you get a red mark, that's a good thing. So if you've your homework well or whatever, you get a red mark, a red dot. But I remember because I used to live in the US when I was a kid. I lived there from two to nine. So I remember getting a lot of positive feedbacks from my teachers. So I loved school, basically, in the US. Gotcha. And whenever I went home, or came home to Hungary, I figured the difference is it was really like a cultural shock in a way.
Let's stay in the past then. We'll loop back around to your film. So at age two, your family moved you to the United States until age nine. What was that about? Well, mean, Hungary is a post -Soviet country. So whenever that was over in 89 in Hungary and became a sovereign state, there was a lot of job opportunities for everyone because a lot of people and lot of companies wanted to expand.
to other countries because we had a block on that side, so we couldn't really make business with the West at all. So in that expansion, my dad got a job offer in New York and was head of the New York base, basically, for a company, and he kind of worked around that. I mean, I was two, so I don't remember so much of that time, but I do remember the years I've spent there. And then they decided, as a family, to come home and move home.
So since then I live here, but I do go to the US as much as I can. Awesome, so New York City? York City. Yeah, mean what a great place, love it. Yeah, we live in New Jersey across the river. Okay, yeah. Around like Hoboken, Clipsides Park to be exact. Literally right across the river, yeah. You the best view though from there. Yeah, it was an amazing view and my dad, you know, he was working in Manhattan so we were just living there across Did take the Holland Tunnel in? Is that what that is?
Lincoln Tunnel Lincoln Tunnel, okay. Yeah or Washington Bridge. Got you down down up a little ways Yeah, yeah, that's cool though. So you got to experience New York as a child. man Any fond memories of New York from when you can remember probably when you're about five to nine? I mean, I love Central Park and especially it was in the 90s. So it was like it was Very exciting in in several ways. I mean, I was still a kid. So I loved like the Alice in Wonderland statue. We were like
climbing on it all the time. Whenever we had a weekend to go to Central Park, it was like a huge buzz every time. There were people like roller skate shows, like clowns. I don't even remember, no, I just remember that it was like intense and like a great experience all the time. I never forget, we'll get off New York in a second, but like I never forget, my dad took us when I was about 12, because we drove up the coast and went to New York. And I remember seeing the Twin Towers like 45 minutes before we even got into the city. Yeah. I'll never forget that, never forget.
You know, It was amazing. I think we had this experience that we went all the way up to the top and then we were kids so we ran down like 40 stories just as fun. It was huge. It was so amazing. What's like your first memory of making a film? know, whether it be a home video or whatever. Wow. mean, I remember we had like a video camera at home and I would like, a couple of times I took it and started making these videos but I would say it was like more.
Copying off films, like if I could do the same frames and do the same ideas. I remember when I was like, I don't know, 15, I watched Schindler's List, which had a big effect on me. And I mean, was too soon, I think, to see that. anyway, and I started to recreate like scenes from that. And it also has something to do with the school system because whenever I got in high school, I was like really, really bored. There was nothing really happening other than you would go in school and you would get, you know, learn.
and that's it. There was no community, no any activities or film or anything like that. I was like, either I go to like a private school or an alternative school and try to figure out my way there or I have to do something about this here. I started with a lot of things. I obviously had a band at the time, a school of radio, a school of newspaper. I would write and direct like theater plays. I would act in them also. So I was like basically trying myself out in a way.
But it was also always about building sort of a community where I really, you know, I felt that I was really needed in school because it was so boring to be there and everybody would go in and then go home afterwards. And so I tried myself out in several ways and all kinds of ways, but film kind of stuck with me because that was like something that I could, you know, put everything in, the music, the acting, the directing, the writing. It was sort of like my own thing. That was not about
building a community, it was more about myself. And we had a big prestigious school here in Hungary. It's like 150 years old, it's like the only one in the country. And all the filmmakers, actors, theater people, and TV people would all come out of the school. It's like 600 people applying and eight people would get in at the end. So I tried. Yeah, so it was like crazy. And I tried myself.
Whatever high school ended, I was like, I think this is what I want to do. This is about me and more about me. So I applied, I tried and I got in because I thought that, you know, it's never going to happen. I was like, what's name of that school? The National School of Theater and Film and University. It was the university. But politics got all over it. It's not the same anymore because they kind of attacked the school and wanted to change the system.
and they basically kicked out all the teachers and all the students who were against the change, had to leave the school. So they're now a complete different school, which is influenced by the government right now. So it's not really the same.
Well, also it seems like it's influenced you as a filmmaker, right? I keep seeing this pattern of this frustrating system on your mind, system, these education systems, right? Do you think your added perspective of growing up in the States your first 10 years roughly, and then going to Hungary for the first time, right, for you in your memory, and then seeing, having something to compare your new world to, right? Is that what maybe stuck with you? I'm guessing here, but I'm trying to understand. so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not until you get a little older and you look back and you start identifying patterns in your own world or like things that just make you want to express yourself. It's like they were there the whole time and a lot of it's just like the conditioning you went under, right? I speak for myself, but it's so comforting to find, you know, just like a sense of purpose when you do realize that. When it's like, this is what I'm about, you know? And I think what you're talking about is very unique. I haven't had this conversation yet as far as what your pattern seems to be at the moment. So anyways, two -part question.
What drives you to pursue filmmaking and then also drives you to pursue the types of films that you've made so far? Or where does that come from, know, what you've pursued? Right, that's a heavy question for me. Since I got into this school at 19, which usually people would get in at 24 or 25. a grad school kind of? Yeah, sort of. I was pretty young at the time and it really influenced my personality and my whole career in my life basically.
And I made a film in third grade and it got into pretty big festivals. It was in Cannes and Cinefondation. Wow. Wow. Cool. I was 22 at the time. And it was a school project. So every year we had like one big project at the end of the year. And so I did that in 2010. I mean, since then I made another movie which was not really fictional. So it was like music videos tied together here at Lake Balaton actually.
There was a big gap between 2010 and now so it's been a long time since I haven't done a film I had like a big project which was also denied by the Hungarian Film Foundation and that was sort of you know the demolishing of my old school and The film funding because here in Hungary you would get money from the government to make your film sure yeah Yeah, because it would never survive on the market
Which is a big thing for all these European filmmakers that I'm talking, or international filmmakers, everybody with the US where it's like there's this film fund route, right? Versus the private funding in America, yeah. I mean, pros and cons on both sides, right? Yeah, it makes sense, but on the other hand, if it could be on the market, it would be better, but there's just not enough people to watch So it's basically like a cultural thing to have these films, and the political system also got into that as well. So now they're making like huge national hero films about, you know,
part of the propaganda and sort of like everybody got cut off, disagrees with the system in a way. So nationalism is being pumped in? that what much so. Pretty much. It's basically like the agenda of the leading party right now in Hungary. And those things were happening at the same time. So my old school was being ruined. There were like big riots and protests against that, but nothing really happened eventually. They took away the school and also they took over the film fund in a political way.
I mean, I had a lot of anger and inspiration in a way. It was time to stand up and say something about it. It started out from there. And before that, during this time, this 14 years since I had made a fictional film, I was looking for something to motivate me in this way. I didn't want to make a film just because I want to make a film and this is my habit to make a film. I wanted to make a film because it has an importance beyond myself and beyond my ideas of myself and my filmmaking and...
Yeah. I've spoken on this before. I've made films that I made out of habit. Like I need to make a film and I want to make a crime film or whatever. And yeah, you can't put it back in when you put it out. You know what I mean? But the lessons learned and the things that we talk about a lot on this show too is like how struggle is beautiful because it like dictates, you learn what you really care about and then you learn how you react to, know, okay, what am I going to do now? Right? It's not about what happens to you, but how you react to what happens to you.
And for me, making that film was important because I realized what you just said, finally, I realized it. Where it's like, how is this helping other people, not just myself? Like if I'm making it just for me, then how do I know this is gonna have an impact? And then kind of like thinking, what do I need to make? And if it requires being a little more patient on my end, which is my weakness and strength, then so be it. Talk about the pain though. mean, you getting impatient or how does it feel to not make a movie for 14 years?
I mean, it was heavy, but it was, I mean, I've been doing commercials at the same time. I've been doing a lot Okay, so you're creating, you're still making films, know? Still making stuff, yeah. And also, I mean, I had this film called Balotom Method, which was like this music video project, which was kind of interesting because it was like a format that I've never seen before. It was a lot of fun to make. These friends who are musicians would come along and play live and stuff. So that was taking my mind off.
the pressure of making a film. was more like a fun project to do. I'll put this right here. It says, in 2015, you directed Balaton Method, the feature music film which became the most successful documentary in Hungary. We couldn't really put a finger on what it is actually because it's more like experimental in a way. It's a documentary because it's bands playing live. So playing their songs, it was like a special format. So we always had like these ideas of how to film it. We also had like...
Additional musicians come in so we'd have a choir and we have a brass band or drummers It was in pretty much a fun project to do it We also collected the first part of money with crowdfunding which was like the first first successful. Yeah, was this 2015 or 2014 probably? Yeah, 14. What'd you do like Kickstarter Indiegogo or something Indiegogo. Yeah, and that's how we kicked off the project. Basically. That was a cool thing That was a movement there for a minute. I mean, I feel like people totally wore their welcome out But we got a few projects off the ground
through that, even it was a thousand or $3 ,000. But then I always thought, okay, we've already done that, you can't keep going back to that, because then you're like, who are you gonna ask, your grandma again? Right. Let me read your bio before I forget. Balance Simler got enrolled in the University of Theater and Film Arts of Budapest in 2006. His third year short film, Here I Am, won the Hungarian Film Week and was selected to be at Cancini Foundation. Subsequently, he had received a nomination for the European Film Awards. After completing his studies, he created the series with his frequent collaborator, DOP Marcel Reb.
In 2015 he directed Ballad Time Method, which we just talked about. In 2021 he created an online show titled, You Gotta Help Me With This Title. Thank God. With Partizan. That's dope. Partizan? Wow. And Partizan to those who don't know, what would you say? It's like an online, like a YouTube channel, but since the TV doesn't support anything like that, it became like huge thing in Hungary. He's currently finishing up his first fiction feature, Lesson Learn, which you've already done, premiering here very soon.
Additionally, he frequently directs commercials, including the award -winning Samsung C -Colors commercial, which earned two bronze lions at Cannes Lion in 2016. So just real quick, like, you know, us filmmakers, like, especially the ones that are trying to now focus on cultural topics or just things that need to be made, you know, versus marketplace stuff. Like, my question to you is, how do you make your money? How do you survive? If you don't mind me asking. No, that's okay. Commercials, basically. Nice. And how did you get into commercials? I think it was the time around Bolotho method. The crowdfunding got big.
and it was a successful crowdfunding and a lot of people joined in because of that. So they gave us like big companies would join in. And so I think that was like the first move. So they called me a couple of times to make some commercials and I was like, yeah, it's So filled a dream, you build it, they will come? Yeah.
Kind of, yeah. Make some good stuff and then next thing you know, people hit you up. Pretty much, I'm just gonna read your director's note. That's on the Locarno Film Festival page right now. Today, Hungary's educational system is in crisis. A shortage of teachers and new laws silencing them of an impact on what we learn in school as children. This inspired me to explore self -censorship and lessons learned. And the synopsis for this film is...
A young teacher attempts to challenge the outdated methods in her school while new student, Palka, recently relocated from abroad struggles to adapt to the demanding educational system. Their personal stories offer insight into an impressive system reflecting the broader Hungarian society. So we have something in common as far as I find myself gravitating towards the man as an antagonist or the system of the impressive entity as an antagonist.
Even right now, like my last film, Bellevue was all about this restaurant trying to survive the pandemic and really also trying to survive the laws put in place by the government. Small business versus corporations. Or my new project is about a private investigator and the enemy in this film is bureaucracy and these systems designed to conceal the truth. You know what I mean? The enemy of the detective. Even if you can't take down the system in place like the end of Fight Club where they blow up everything. Right, that would be nice. You know what I mean? I always think about that.
that last scene where it's like, fuck. The power of what we do is kind of hard to imagine really. Like you never know who you can impact or what you can impact with this. Even just like raising awareness and getting a conversation started, which could then become a movement potentially, right? Which could then take down a system potentially. I mean, so let me ask you, what is your hope for this film ultimately? Your big dream, your fantasy. Like is there, do you have anything in mind? No, I mean, it was a dream to get into like a prestigious festival, obviously.
and now we're in one, that pretty much came true. From now on, it's more like for it to become a big thing in Hungary, especially because we did this film, like basically no budget. The reason I told you about, because the fund system, like the film fund is influenced by the government, so they would never support a film like that, and I would even ask for money from them anymore. It was my intention for it to be low budget, and I mean, it was not a tension, but it was a must to do. So the whole film was created.
because of the circumstances in a way. It would be a huge thing to get a lot of viewers and get a lot of people to watch it. It's a lot about the government and the system and all that, but it's very human in a way. And this experience we all have in school, it's pretty frustrating and you carry a lot of things that happen to you in school. It's very strict and...
and a lot of punishments going on. You you carry that. And the whole idea of the film was more like something happening throughout the system right now. It's something that is similarly oppressive that we experience in school. It's still kind of a human thing and small children surviving and without them really understanding what's happening to them at the time. I hope that we can bring back that feeling in people here in Hungary. It could be a big thing. People would...
get drawn to it and being reminded of that feeling and seeing that from a broader perspective now as an adult. The story starts out with Palko coming home from Berlin and he's on a plane, so he's arriving basically into this whole chaos and that was set out for people to see Palko's story through his perspective, through somebody who's really not connected, who doesn't understand the rules here. This new world for him. Exactly.
And since we understand, it's even harder to see how he doesn't understand and how he can't survive in that situation. It's Plato's cave, isn't it? Allegory of the cave in a way, right? Or Hero's Journey, or it's...
I love it so much as far as story forms go. And this leads into my question I hadn't even asked you yet either, which was like, what's the story structure you implemented or what does happen? I mean, it's basically the two people coming from the outside world into the system and being thrown into the Hungarian educational system. One of them is a small boy coming from abroad. The other is its teacher just starting out. Like she's freshly out of school and she still has this urge to do something actually and not being crushed by the system. These stories are like told.
pretty much simultaneously without them really affecting each other. So teacher -student, it's like double protagonist. exactly. And then at one point, their story connects in a way and then we start to talk about them both. So story -wise, it was pretty much like that, but throughout all the films I made and since like the first day of film school, it was like very important for me to have that kind of acting that I haven't seen so much in films. So I really like it when it's really realistic and sort of.
Yeah, believable in a way. We used a special method for the acting because a lot of it was improvisation. So I wouldn't give them specific words to say. would create a situation for them to behave in and be involved in. I would give them motivations and all that. And that influenced pretty much the stories. So there's a lot of scenes which are not going somewhere in that.
sense but more like creating the atmosphere of what we live in and how it's going on. So it's not really story driven, but it does have a story that leads you along the way. So it's character driven mainly? Yeah, I think so. We're more of the atmosphere. Okay, nice. Yeah. And the feeling that one would get, right, when they watch it versus like the information or the... Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the by the numbers approach.
So what did your script look like? Did you have a script that was pretty articulate and then once you got into production you were like, when you're talking to your actors you give them like a point A to B to C in each scene or how did that look? Break that down if you don't mind. I I decided to make the film in March and I started writing the script and I had a first draft at the end of May.
We were already in pre -production. Love that so much. Yeah, so we had castings at the time. I already casted some people that I didn't even know what they were going to do in the film. But you were a man on a mission. You were like, we got to do this. This is happening. She's great. We need her. I'm just going to write something for her. Love that so much. So it was kind of organically came together. And I finished the second draft, which was like the final draft, in beginning of July, like two weeks before shooting.
So it was like from March to August, we did the pre -production, the writing and everything. So in almost a half a year. There was a lot of parts that I left out in the script. I know how to do this without writing the words. And also it was a thing that I had in mind originally that I wanted to work with actors in this kind of method. So let them be in a situation. It's like a balance with everything, right? I you got to know, I guess, the idea or the feeling or whatever your approach is to what you're doing, but also you don't want to be too structured, right? You don't want to be too stiff, which...
is no good, and then that becomes predictable and not realistic. The only reason you would prepare yourself is to get off script, for me at least. It could also go all over the place. Everybody wants to say something in a scene. mean, especially we had a lot of scenes here where it was like 10 people talking at the same time. So was like a teacher's conference and all the teachers were there, like 15 people. So you really have to structure that in a way. First, we would just shoot and let's go. Let's see what happens. I mean, I would give them motivation. I like that method too, personally.
Eventually we had to structure it down a little bit and try to keep people not always talking at the same time. some choices. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say another Robert Altman similarity, but maybe by accident where he purposefully mic everybody up, like have 10 overlapping dialogues. anyways, the financing. Do you mind sharing your production budget? You don't have to. Or just a rough estimate. No matter what it sounds like you went from, I'm going to fucking make this movie all the way to now, Locarno in a week from now. Like that's amazing. Love that.
We have like 19 producers and 10 production companies. Okay, I see, I see, I see. It was a lot because we started out with putting our own budget in. It was like just an estimate of around like $100 ,000. Nice, wow. Around, yeah, so I'm not sure. That means you know what you're doing. I love it so much. There's hope for these people that have limited funds, you know what I mean? Like I feel like, what do you think makes...
What's the key ingredient to a good movie? Obviously it's not money necessarily, and you need money, but a lot of filmmakers I've talked to didn't have so much, but they made some great powerful pieces. What is it? What do you think it is for a good fiction piece to really get past the noise and get into a Locarno? I mean, in this sense, it was crazy because a lot of people understood what their responsibility is in this system, what we have, because a lot of people, they love making movies, they wanna make good films, and they know that the...
system we have now is not gonna do that for any of us. There were a lot of people working for free throughout the shoot and even after the shoot. It's really cheesy to say and everybody says that, but that this movie would have been made if it wasn't for them. But this time it is like that. It is a collective effort from everybody. Otherwise, I people actually gave their time, energy and work and even money because they wouldn't get money at the time that they were shooting with us. Now here comes the reward for everybody, right? And it's like honoring the craft.
Yeah, hopefully. Is the key, I feel like. I have no idea what it means. It's different in every project, and this film was thought to be a low budget project. So I'm just thinking too, there's different reasons why people make stuff. I'm just gonna pick on the people that are just thinking about the reward or just like the shortcut version. Like, you know, I have seen a lot of kind of newer American filmmakers trying to just make something that they think the market wants, for example, right? That's not really honoring the craft. This is why you're not doing it to get something off your chest. You're doing it to get a...
something superficial. So I don't know, maybe like step one is honoring the crowd. Yeah. I think it's the, that's the divide between what we call art and what we call commercial filmmaking in a way. as long bless those 90s films in America where they just towed the line. I mean, I miss that. Everybody does. God. Like the highlights and challenges of making the film, like is there anything like a challenge when making this film, like the biggest challenge, the biggest kind of stressful moment for you that you can recall that
might have been necessary to go through, you know, to get to the other side. I mean, it was made so fast. I didn't really have time to think at all. So we were just like rushing through it. I mean, it was challenging to ask for favors, definitely. So, you you want to pay for people's work. And even though you appreciate it so much, and I think it's also a statement from them.
not only to this film, but filmmaking in general in Hungary. And it's worth more when they're actually offering it for free, but still it was definitely hard to actually work with people and have demands even though they're there for free. We tried to make it as fun as possible, obviously. We felt this pressure anyway. But there also is a theater play in the film, which is acted out by the kids at the school, and that we shot later on. So we shot...
most of the film in the summer and then I prepared the theater play during the fall and then we shot it in February, I think. And we finished off the movie in March, so that was kind of a rush at that time. And was a lot to comprehend and a lot to work on because they sing and act and there's no Hungarian translation for this play that they're acting out. It's a Spanish writer's play.
Is this an act of defiance possibly against the system or something like this? Pretty Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. It's like art versus oppression. I mean, the story is about the Romans in a Spanish city in Numuncia. So it's the conflict between them and obviously the city is kind of attacked by the Romans and they have a decision to make. So it's pretty much about that. But it was like 110 page play and I had to make like an eight page from it. Got you.
But down to like the key ingredient. Exactly. Yeah. And also work with the singing. We had to make the music for it. Nice. made the music for it. And I prepared all the children with the singing and with the act as well. That was pretty hard to make. And I was editing at the same time. Nice. Okay, talk about the editing as far as like editing while you're shooting. It has a lot of value to it, right? If you have the bandwidth. Talk about the benefits of that. I mean, in this sense, it wasn't about creating the story while...
editing it at the same time. So once we finished the shoot with what we did in the summer, we edited for like seven months because of the improv and a lot of scenes, we had to work around that a little bit. Nice, it's like a documentary almost. Almost, build up the scenes basically and kind of like figure out if they said the same thing a couple of times, then we could work around that. And you know, it was hard to build up to all the scenes that took most of the time. But it was more about that we wanted to finish the movie in March.
And this theater play is, you it has really nothing to do with the main storyline. It's just like a film in film, basically. it was just hard to figure out what it's gonna do whenever we put that in the film, if we're gonna need it at all, or if it's gonna mess up the whole storyline. And we had very limited time after we put it in and started working around it. I think we had like two more weeks of editing. Okay, so time was breathing down your neck. Exactly.
It's very intense. I wouldn't sleep so much at the time, but was looking back. It was a lot of fun to do. Did you have any issues with the actors needing more than maybe a loose kind of outline in the improv or were you in pretty good shape because you casted the right people or a mix of both? Because I've had experiences where it's like, they need more, they need more, they need more details. And I'm like, shit, Yeah, sometimes it's less is more. They don't need to know everything. Sure.
We had that with the main actress because she's a wonderful actress and she's very intelligent. And I think it was not against her acting. She took it personally that she wouldn't be able to understand that even if I show her the script that she wouldn't understand my method. It wasn't really about when we were in a scene and how much she would know about a scene. It was more about that I didn't want to show the script to anyone and she needed to read it. And then eventually I gave it to her and she read it. And I think that was a good decision.
She didn't really rehearse any parts that she would do. She would just read it and she would get the whole sense of the film. It's a bit of a map for her. Exactly, pretty much a map. And she was very helpful in a lot of scenes. She didn't push herself forward so much. She understood what the meaning of the scene would be and what it should be and who should react to who. And she would kind of like guide all the other actors who were not actors, most of them. they never played the part. That's difference making, I'm sure. Yeah, what's her name?
Her name is Onamisu. Okay, cool. So shifting to cinematography really quick, because I got a glimpse of the clip you shared and it's got a really cool, I don't want to say 16 millimeter look, it's got like a very unique look. Is it 16? Yeah, it's 16. Okay, cool. So what's the decision to shoot 16? And I love it, by the way. Yeah, it's modern time. But although everything films feels like 30 years ago, it's like time stood still in school. Marcel, we went to the same...
class and he's the DOP of Euphoria and Malcolm and Mary and Levenson. Sam Levenson? Yeah, his DP. He works in the US, he works in Hollywood and thank God you had a writer strike because that's how he could come home and strike when the iron is hot. Exactly. I mean, we've done everything. We've done Baloto Method and everything like in the past together.
You know, now he lives in the US and we haven't worked together for a couple of years now. So it was like getting a family member back in a way. It was really emotional in that way as well. It was really nice to have him back with us. And he mostly shoots on film. So that was one thing that we were prepared to take in if he has the time. There was a very practical reason as well because we didn't have time or money to have lighting equipment. We would have needed a lot of people.
to work on the lighting team. It's a lot of handheld as well, possibly? It's mostly handheld. Which I love so much. Yeah, we had grip, so we had dollies. We have some dolly scenes and we have a lot of handheld and one crane scene basically at the end. But other than that, I mean, it was more important to let the actors be in the situation they are in, so we didn't really want to put like film equipment around them. there's children.
I mean, there's a lot of children's scenes and we didn't want to surround them with all these equipment. You're asking for so much, By keeping them in the moment, by getting distracted by C -stands and such? Yeah. Exactly. And also, I mean, it would take time for like at least an hour to set every scene. Here we would just have a handheld camera and go between scenes and just, you know, record basically. Marcel would be sitting by them. And the only other thing that would be around them would be the microphone, which they love, obviously, that there's something, you know, floating play with it. Yeah.
Yeah, handheld is so powerful. It's like so powerful and you know, and for some reason it took me forever to like really respect simplicity. You don't have to like, you don't have to break your back to get something effective, right? And depending on the story, of course, but like this story also seems like it would benefit from that style anyways, even if you had a billion dollars. It gives like a sort of intimacy to the scenes. I mean, you can be really close to the actors and they could still be in the situation sort of. And I think it's a
crucial part in the film and kind of, we also talked about being amongst the children and being between them. We really wanted to make scenes and setups that we could really feel how it is to be a kid in a way. Which is kinetic and moving always, guess, right? Or even a little bit of movement. Not like locked off movement, I guess, like cranes and dollies.
As long as you lock kid down into the position, it's not gonna be the same anymore. So if they have the freedom to move and do whatever they feel like, that also helps. But there was also one other thing that we really talked a lot about how it is to be a kid. And it's sort of like you live everything in the moment. Everything just happens at one specific time, but it affects your whole life eventually. And it's pretty much how you shoot on film. So you just capture like one frame.
And it's there forever. You just lock it in a box and you have that frame and you know, you have it on the wall. And if you look at like old pictures of relatives or anybody else, it's just that moment locked in somehow. And that's pretty much how it is to be a kid in a way to experience so much. And it's so intense all the time, but you can get over it really fast. So it's just a sudden thing when you experience something and you never know what's going to stick with you throughout your whole life and how it's going to come out at the end.
That's how it is to shoot on film, basically. You wouldn't re -watch the takes and you just be there and capture the moment in a way. I love that. In my past few weeks with editing my current project and the conversations I've been having and the fucking title of this podcast, I think to be a kid and to be a happy human being is to live in the moment, to be in the moment and not to live too much in the past. Of course, pay homage and look back for a little bit, whatever, but don't live there. And also don't live too much in the future and plan too much. But to be here right now, I mean, you see it. That's what the kids are doing.
And I love what you said about shooting on film. Even when I'm shooting documentaries now and I'm operating my camera as well, I love that one of my favorite things about it is that I'm not stressed about a second take because I'm not giving myself one. Because there isn't one, you know? It's not a documentary at that point, really, do you know what I mean? Love not being able to overthink, not being allowed to overthink, because that's when you get in trouble, right? You try to control it too much and adults are guilty of that. It takes so much time to overthink. It's just like you had it.
the first time you thought about Your ego is something, right? What is it? And I'm always working on it, trying to get better, but just to understand that concept now, it's really opened a lot of doors for me, you know, to be in the moment and to let things happen the way they want to. For sure. I mean, that's the hard part. To see what's happening, even if you're in the moment, you have to kind of see it from the outside in a way, especially if you're working on a film, you know, you have to always...
have it in the back of your head. What's happening now, seems nice, but is it gonna work out good in the final picture? Is it how it's gonna be? That's basically like the hardest part to be in it totally 100 % and also step out of it and a little bit like see over it and like try to figure out how it is influenced by your emotions in a way. Yeah, and just to be able to dial it in and also I've learned how to kind of not beat myself up too much. Okay, let me just go for it and figure it out and then dial it back or.
push it forward or whatever and then also as filmmakers we got the beauty of being able to edit some things too, you know? So it's like, it's nice, yeah. That's what Gildart said actually. Did he really? Yeah, edit, I think said editing is like 50 % of making a movie. It's like you could still make another one. If I wish, sometimes I get in these moments where in real life I'm like, I'll just command Z that or I'll just, shit, nah, that doesn't work that way, this is real life. Do you know what I mean? I can't edit real life unless I'm doing a podcast or a movie.
Yeah, it's like when you can't find your keys or anything and you have this urge that I might give it a ring, but you can't do that. Marcel is his name, the DP. Marcel Rev? Yes. He shot the idol? Look, that is the best looking piece of television I've seen in a minute. It looks so good. Aside from whatever people thought about it, like cinematography, yeah, that dude's great. And you guys met in school, I assume? Yeah, we were classmates in film school. because we had like directors and DOPs, they would be in one class. Amazing.
Yeah. I think, I mean, different philosophies for different people, but as far as directing, effective directing, I think obviously it's working with actors, but it's also how are you telling this story visually with the collaboration of your DP and you talking about your approach for this film. It's like two things when you break that apart. Reality controls things sometimes, or you have to modify based on what you have to work with. And I love that when filmmakers maximize what they have. You should have shot it this way anyways, it sounds like. That's very important. Whatever you're doing just to figure out
the limits you have because the limits can also be very inspiring. a way, if you don't try to look for something you don't have, try to figure out what you have can work the best way in a way. I think all these kind of limitation, even if we're talking creatively, if you've written down something that gives you guidelines or just a format or whatever, make decisions. If you made the first decision, it's going to be easier to make the next one in a way.
These kind of limitations, I think, are really inspiring for going forward and also creatively to figure out something that is special in its own self, even though you don't have the budget or the equipment or anything for it. The value of parameters, right? Yeah. And we've seen it a million times where it's like these big, huge budgets. Like, that's not the answer. The money hose is not the answer. mean, you can help to a certain point, but then where's the line where it's like, you're trying to solve this with money?
What are you trying to say? What do you need to say? What did it feel like to get that email from LaCarno when you got in, the acceptance email? Wow, I mean, I was completely in a different mindset at the time. was like, Marcel called me, like, did you check your mail? I was like, no, what happened? And then he told me, I didn't really understand at the beginning, like, what just happened. Now, I mean, it takes a lot more time to perceive all these kind of, I feel like I'm getting older in a way. I can't really.
be that reflective immediately on things happening. Right, sure. So it took some time to understand, but it was still a good moment. When you get into these solid festivals, man, it's the gift that keeps on giving, I feel like, as the dust settles. You don't know where you're going to land with these movies. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, or whatever the metaphor should be. know, certain festival programmers or whoever respond to your material in a certain way, and it also needs to line up with their programming maybe, or their MO.
Yeah, you never know what's happening. You never know, and it's wonderful when your film finds a home, at least so far from my experience, it doesn't seem to be what you think it might be sometimes. But it's been better a lot of times than what you thought. It's good not to have expectations so much, and then whatever comes, it's gonna be. Yeah, and not to prioritize the reward too much, to allow the reward to be whatever it needs to be. But as far as focusing on honoring the craft, and honoring what you need to say and what you need to express, I guess.
Definitely. I'm mostly happy because so this film, it's gonna get to a lot of people this way, a lot more people than if it would only be screened in Hungary. And maybe even in Hungary as well, because of the festival, a lot more people would watch it. And that was the main goal of the whole thing. It was not really about myself, especially with all the people working on it for free and all the people being involved with it and giving everything to do it. I'm really happy that they get to
show our film in this sense to a lot more people this way. I can't, I'm excited for you. Yeah, that's great, man. When you got into the edit stage, did you feel good about what you had? Well, you were editing throughout, but I guess once you were done filming and you continued to edit and it started coming together, what was your initial response? Was it one of those things where you were like, fuck, do we have it or not? I don't know. Did you hate your first rough cut or did you feel good about it? That's always a very important moment for me.
every time when I shoot, especially, I mean, because I do a lot of commercials and even if it's not like your biggest thing to do, but still you can really feel like you can get a sense of if it worked out or if it's not working out. And whenever you have everything on the timeline, even without doing anything with the editing yet, know, whenever I sit down in the editing chair, I have this feeling, I think this is going to be okay. It's never like, it's going to be amazing. It's never, it's going to be super bad because you can still.
You know, you could change a lot during the editing process and figure out a total new film if you want to, if you need to. But still, there were a couple of projects I've done in the past few years which I had a feeling that I think this is gonna be okay. And I say the same thing. I say, think we're good. We're good. Now, then I get greedy. We're good, but we need more. We need more of this. This or that. Yeah, we're gonna be good.
So I had that feeling this time as well. Well, you clearly were good, so you're on your way. That's exciting. Any plans for distribution or anything like this? any plan? Or are you just taking it one step at a time, LaCarna first? Well, yeah, one step at a time. I mean, we're talking with a couple of global sales agents, joint agencies. Nothing set in stone yet. But we have a Hungarian distribution team. But it would be nice to have global sales distribution. I'm sure it all gets sorted out.
the festival gets up and running. Your screening is August 9th? 9th, yeah. Your official premiere August 9th and then you have another screening the next day on Saturday and Sunday. So you got a whole weekend, boom, boom, boom. Yeah, that's gonna exciting. So last little bit, the past films that have inspired you, you told me Play by Ruben Oselen. Yeah, that was... I've never seen this one, I love him, but I've never seen that. I'm watch this. I saw the trailer. yeah, yeah, yeah. I might watch it tonight actually. I mean...
Films that I don't understand how they were made that are really inspiring. Like whenever I'm watching a film, 99 % I understand, okay, they made this like this. How did you get this one through the door and like complete? that what you'd be like, how did you pull this off? Yeah, I mean, especially the acting, but still like the whole sense of it and how it's made. I mean, it's one of my favorite films. It was not really an inspiration for this film, but I probably it was, you know, without thinking of it.
but it's just that kind of movie that you don't really understand. Let me read the synopsis real quick. First of all, want to say Ruben Olsen, I think he's the best to ever do satire. I think he's the king of satire.
I don't know this is necessarily a satire, but I know most of his films are. As far as the children as characters and trying to relate to children, mean, that would be a connection, I guess, with your film, right? Pretty much, yeah. What else? Yeah. Anything else that might tie it together even subconsciously between this and Lessons Learn? Not so much. I mean, the psychology of the two films might be similar in a way. Like how you get into a certain state of mind and without...
anything big happening, but still the end of the road without spoilers. In that sense, it could be similar as well. Yeah, I love the camera movement. It's just like his second film. So it's like an early Ruben Ostlund. I think he was inspired by his teacher, Roy Anderson, which is also like a big filmmaker. And he has these long shots. And some of the scenes we had were also like that.
But because of the improv, we didn't really have so long shots in most of the film. I'm sorry, I gotta bring up Triangle of Sadness. He's not doing long shots for gimmick purposes either, you know that. You know that when you watch it. The beginning with the fashion model stuff where the camera is like, it's not like a long, long, long take, but it's just this extended take where it's like, God, this is so good. There's something about it that you can't really put your finger on it. You can't really figure out why it works so much. It's just the angle or the shot.
or the timing, and that's why it was a huge film for me because I can't really figure out how it was made. He's just a great filmmaker that just combined, he's got his own thing combining different elements, reckon. Bellatar, Family Nest, tell me about this film if you don't mind. I mean, he's like one of the greatest and biggest well -known Hungarian directors, but mostly for his later work.
And Family Nest is also like an early film of his. During socialism, you can buy yourself an apartment. You would get an apartment from the government. So you would have to apply for an apartment. They would give you an apartment to live in. And that's how it was. mean, it was a communist country. And because of that, that wasn't working so well. So because of that, there were a lot of people living together with grandparents, children, brothers, sisters, in like 40 square meters in very small places, very small apartments. And the whole...
idea of the film is in these circumstances and he would shoot with a family. They weren't really a family, but parts of them have experienced the same thing in their own life. And it's sort of like in a way between a documentary and a fiction. The way he built the scenes, the way he worked with the actors and kind of created tension between them was...
pretty inspiring in a way that you wouldn't really see a moment that would be false or not real in a way. It felt so real and just by doing that, when I think he was 21 when he did that. Wow. And it was, mean, it was, for the first time I saw it was like a big thing. Because I was always looking into, you know, how to recreate. And realism, right? Realism is like a big drawing point. Just to believe the actors what they're saying and.
And that's an issue, I think, in a lot of Hungarian films. okay. And family net synopsis is very quick. The breakdown of the relationship of a couple by living in a flat of the husband's parents. So that's probably not the best. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, but no, mean, and I have a Bellator quote here. Without light and the darkness, you cannot make movies. What would you tell your filmmaking self from 10 years ago that you wish you would have known? Because I had a big project.
I know it's not a quote in this sense, but it was supposed to be my big first film and I would put everything, all my great ideas and all my great thoughts and everything just kind of stuffed into it. This is the one. This is the one. This is how I'm going to show the world that I'm a genius. And you know, if you're focused more on the topic than yourself, that helps immensely. Because if you get stuck in your own world, then you can't really figure out what's going around you.
And I think that was something I learned from this one because it was just more important to talk about these issues and kind of make a stand socially and understand the responsibility I have as an artist or a filmmaker in the system that we live in. By itself, I mean, if you would have asked me if this would be my first film five years ago, I would say, it would be nice to do something like this, but I was always interested in the topic, but I would like to show more of myself or something like that. And now...
Now it feels this film feels much more genuine and much more me actually in a way. It's a wonderful thing to kind of finally get over Right. It's a better guideline. Totally. Hell yeah. Hey man, that was great.
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