Past Present Feature with Marcus Mizelle
Past Present Feature is a film appreciation podcast hosted by Emmy-winning director Marcus Mizelle, showcasing today’s filmmakers, their latest release, and the past cinema that inspired them.
Past Present Feature with Marcus Mizelle
E35 • Expand Your Horizon, Stand With the Misfits • WANNES DESTOOP, dir. of ‘Holy Rosita’ - BEST FILM Award at the Torino Film Festival
Wannes Destoop, director of “Holy Rosita”, which just won the Best Film award at the Torino Film Festival, shares his affinity for misfits and the unique stories they embody. Past films discussed include Sean Baker’s “The Florida Project” and Martin McDonagh’s “In Bruges”.
He reflects on his documentary roots, the importance of authenticity in storytelling, and the challenges of modern filmmaking. Wannes shares insights into his casting process, production choices, and the emotional rollercoaster of post-production.
Also touched on are the impact of awards and recognition on a film's reach and the complexities of distribution in today's film market.
Like, subscribe and follow us on our socials @pastpresentfeature
Marcus Mizelle (00:01)
And I think it's important to open up your horizon and just try to see much further than what do you know. That's it.
Welcome to the Past Present Feature podcast.
Marcus Mizelle (00:28)
On today's episode, Juan Estes-Dub, director of Holy Rosita, just won the Best Film Award at the Torino Film Festival, shares his affinity for misfits and the unique stories they embody. Past films discussed include Schoenbaker's The Florida Project and Martin McDonagh's Imbruge. He reflects on his documentary roots, the importance of authenticity in storytelling, and the challenges of modern filmmaking. Juan Estes shares insights into his casting process,
the emotional rollercoaster of
a film's reach
and the complexities of distribution in today's film market.
Thank you for listening to this podcast as always and subscribe and share. Cheers.
Marcus Mizelle (01:25)
I love starting a quote from the filmmaker I'm interviewing. Can you go deeper into that quote? Why do you love society's misfits? Where does that come from? Maybe because I'm a misfit as well. Or maybe in my teenage years, I felt
more alone or something. I was always like the special one in my family or at school. Although I think I just tried to be myself or was searching who myself was. I always wanted a lot of attention and maybe I tried to achieve the attention not only in a proper or a decent way. So I think I wanted to be in the center of the attention. I have four sisters and two brothers. Okay. Wow. Yeah. So I think that's also quite a reason.
of fighting for your place in the family situations. I think without knowing it very well, it kept me busy. My film was inspired upon a documentary I made in my first year of film school. And without knowing it, I always made portraits of people who were the misfits. And I always tried to not tell the standard stories. I always liked more the stories of the more colorful people, not at first sight maybe the standard norms that society gives us.
Although I think that everybody's voice needs to be heard. But I was not that conscious when I was making those documentaries in like my first years of school. And was only like a couple of years later, or even maybe 10 years later, that I really understand why I really wanted to tell those stories. So interesting how that happens. I love that, though. Having a natural inclination to misfits and kind of people that are not standard, as you say. I think that's helped you out quite a bit, too, right? Because you stand out more whenever you create a portrait for unique individuals.
The only thing you can do sometimes these days, because you want to avoid the things we've seen many times and the characters we've seen many times. Yeah, it's actually something that is my kind of stuff because I made already a television series, a fiction series, and there was about 10 overweighted people who go on a fat camp in Belgium. And for me, that was also the same story that it's not by looking how does people look like. And in that
ways it were like the fat people. But it's always important to tell a story behind those bodies or behind those first judgments that you make often very quick. And I do that myself and I always try to look further than that. But that's something that is not typical for us as human beings as well. I love that you bring this up. I've been shooting this short documentary about the Trump supporter across the street from me. I first moved in here and I'm like, man,
Everything's great. I just wish that Trump supporter wasn't across the street. He has a car It's a Trump mobile. It says Trump make America great again. I cut to the chase and this dude is a great neighbor You cannot deny it. He's a he's actually a great guy and it's this whole thing of don't judge books by their cover Wait, and then so I thought maybe there's a little bit of a documentary We'll see I'll follow him before during and after the election and just document it and see how it goes And then I was like he needs some conflict here
And I also filmed his neighbor who was a staunch Democrat. And so I followed him. They don't talk because of politics and all this. So anyways, the point is everybody don't not talk to this guy. Don't leave a drink on his car just because he has a Trump sign. Just treat him like a human being, please. Even though you don't agree with maybe his politics or his tribalism or whatever you want to call it. So yeah, it's important to remember as a human being, right? To like not judge people because they're fat or judge people because of some sort of societal abnormality.
The only difference is that I think is that being a Trump supporter is something that you choose for. okay. This is getting good. But where is the line between genetics and choice when it comes to being overweight? Yeah, absolutely. And I think in some cases it's genetics and sometimes it's not. Being a product of your environment creates your choices a lot of times without knowing it, I feel like, right? I think the point is to not judge a book by its cover and...
people do want to label and throw people into a container that they deem as the right container, when in fact people are more complex than that. And it's also something, because you have the antagonist in my story of my feature, that is her surrogate mother, and she is saying that it's not good for Rosita to have children. But the only thing that she is saying in a way like that is just that she doesn't know it either, because she isn't the mother herself.
So everybody reacts, I think, in life on situations that you just know.
And I think it's important to open up your horizon and just try to see much further than what do you know. That's
Yeah, to be sure, I'm not always right. Me neither. OK, back to your TV show. Wild Bunch picked this up. How was it working with them? I always see them. They seem to be attached to great quality stuff. Yeah, it was very cool because they already signed in on the screenplays.
They believed very hard in the story and in the thematics and the way we wanted to tell the story because we didn't want to make a dark and grey drama out of it, but we wanted to combine it with humour and with lots of colours and make it in a very poetic, cinematographic way. So it was cool because they liked the series very much and it was even sold to PBS. Your show was called Albatross? Yes. So I was doing fiction forever and then I switched to documentary. It sounded like you did a lot of documentary and now you...
just as your first fiction feature film. Talk about applying cinematic techniques to the documentary form. It sounds like that's what you did with Albatross. Yeah, I don't know if you can call the documentaries that I made in my first years of film school like real documentaries, if you see them back like quite crappy. I think the content is interesting and the characters, but the way of filming is not like very documentary. But Albatross, I think in a way you can see it that...
the documentary elements are the elements that you have the feeling that it are real characters. That it are genuine characters, that they are characters of flesh and blood. And I think that's the most interesting part because I always try to do as hard as I can to make each character like someone you could really know. So I think those two are for me then the cinematographic way of filming and the genuine characters. Also with Abathros, we didn't do a lot of castings. So actually,
When we had the writing process, we already knew, okay, this actor will be for this part. And we took a lot of personal stuff out of the actor's personal life that we implemented in the screenplays. Autobiographical. There's so many autobiographical approaches into European films, which I really appreciate because it gives it this authenticity, this realism, which I think people are just simply into and want more of these days. Absolutely, because my feature film now, I wrote it together with
Tom the Poe and Jana the Smet. Actually, the three of us implemented a lot of their personal lives into the story of Holy Rosita. Okay, what kind of personal stuff did you implement? Yeah, actually, Tom is already a father because Holy Rosita does a story of Rosita who really has the desire to become a mother. Jana and I, we don't have children yet, but we do have a very big desire to become a parent. it's so awesome. I have a five-year-old. It's amazing.
I can believe it. I'm going to read the synopsis for Holy Rosita. Rosita is a steward at her city's football club. In the stadium, she feels responsible and important. The ever smiling Rosita breaks through her loneliness. She lives alone in a small flat in a social housing block by being friendly and helpful to everyone. This gives her vitality and self-esteem, but her dream is to have a child. And when she does become pregnant, she decides to keep it a secret. And you actually participated in the Torino film lab and you just won.
best film at the 42nd Torino Film Festival. Congratulations. Tell me about the autobiographical elements you want, children. You said your co-writer already has a child. Yeah, Tom has two sons, but the other co-writer has desired to become mother, but it's not that simple. We are looking for, are we able to become a parent or not? And I think that's question for every one of us. So in a way, that's something that Rosita has in a very special way because...
Her environment does not believe that she maybe have the right capacity to become a mother. And in terms of that, I think it's something very universal as well. Why would the environment stop her from being a mom? Her job in the film, her socioeconomic situation? Not like a standard person, because in a way she's not always capable of taking care of herself. And then is the question, can you take care of a child if it's sometimes difficult or hard to take care of yourself? Although I think...
Is a child better off when it's in all the perfect situations like socially, economically, but if a child doesn't get enough love from their parents who are hardworking parents, but they barely see their children. So it's a very big discussion and I don't have an answer to that question as well. With my film, I really want to open a debate because I...
I think there's just one right answer for this question because it's so complex. Before you make a film, of course, we wanted to have all the whole package of it being ready to be made, right? But sometimes you just got to do it and just let the chips fall where they may. Same with having a child, right? You're always going to be stressed about does this kid have enough? This kid have too much? As long as you got some love, your movie and your child will grow up to be in good shape. Yeah. And it will not be always easy when it's difficult.
You have a lot of people who love you and who support you and who really try to help you. And when things are difficult, you really do see what you're made of and what you can work on. That's the reason why I call Holy Rosita like my first real big baby. Because it's actually my first real big baby. First feature film. Yeah. Let's talk about it. You gave me an idea of why you made this movie. Anything special about the development process? Let's say that the developing process was a long process. Because I...
wrote the first treatment in 2015. I was not quite ready to go further with it. And then came the idea of my series Albatross and that went very fast. So after Albatross and I had more experience and I was like more grown up as well, I think, I thought the time was there to like go further with story of Rosita. And then
The most important thing is that we took a lot of time to invest in the screenplay and in the research and even more because Rosita is actually in every scene. That was a choice that we made during the writing because we wanted to tell everything out of the eyes of Rosita that you were standing next to her. So the most important thing in the pre-production was the casting of Rosita. And it scared the hell out of me because I knew that...
my film would be good or not, with the choice of who would play Rosita. So I did one year of casting, we had with different actresses. In the beginning, I always said, okay, I know you're nervous to do this audition, but I'm even more nervous because I'm also trying to search who Rosita is and I will use this also to help own in my own search and in my own journey of who Rosita is and what are.
her layers and her complex and her emotions. So it took a lot of time, but it was like the only right way to do it because when we started shooting and Daphne Achten, we worked for so many time together during the castings that it was quite obvious how to do it during the actual shooting. Got you. So not only were you searching for your lead, which Daphne ended up
You are also developing the character as you were casting. Yeah, absolutely. We saw in casting, okay, that's interesting to implement in the screenplay right now. I love casting, personally. It's one of my favorite phases of making a film. It's the moment where it goes from off the page to the stage. You're hearing the words out loud, you're seeing the possibilities of who could be in this. And when that right person or people walk in and they give you something that brings it to life, it's all shit. We're gonna be okay. You know, I think it's so exciting.
It's very exciting, but in a way it's also scary because we had a little child of six years old that plays actually the best friend of Rosita and it was so difficult to fight the right one. And then I thought, okay, we have like everything. We are happy with the screenplay and with the casting of Daphne and with everybody else. But you knew it's so important to find the right girl because she had to have a lot of energy. And so we saw like more than a hundred children and we...
We didn't have the girl yet. And then it was actually my co-writer, Tom, who just showed me a little film on his iPhone that was of a family party. And he said, that's actually the niece of my wife. What do you think? And I immediately saw, okay, that's what we need. And it was cool. We saw her on casting. She didn't have.
any experience or she actually didn't want really to be in theaters or in film or television. feel like so many good actors have come through that route where it's like, me? Yeah. So I love that. wait a minute. I'm in post on this private investigator documentary. I interviewed, I don't know, 30 private investigators and I filmed like six of them and it ended up being the very first one I met and filmed was the guy. You know what I mean? It was like the first thing that came to me. It was like right under my nose. And I spent nine months until I realized, wait a minute.
It's right there, keeping things simple. It was for me for Daphne as well. It was actually after the first casting, who was quite horrible for me because it was just one scene and it was via a casting agency and I really felt not comfortable with it because it was just, okay, and the next one, and the next one. That was actually the time that I didn't even was secure on myself. But actually the first casting, when I look at now back and you would have asked me then, okay,
you have to choose now, it would have been not. But I had to have one year actually to get sure of it. And it's easy to beat ourselves up. He was doing it. Filmmakers are products of their environment right now. There is integrity when it comes to the responsibility of being able to tell a great story with real authentic characters and stuff. That's not a priority these days. You don't see it in these Hollywood films. I see it in festival films like yours and watching other people's things. But as far as the mainstream stuff, it doesn't seem to be criteria for.
what they're after. And it used to be absolutely what they were after. Was it really like that? That you had a lot of commercial films that were really like very personal stories? I think so. I know nostalgia is real. know nostalgia porn and nostalgia worship and looking into the past is a thing that you can get distracted with and enamored with. But I separate that from my point of I do think films were stronger then. And I think it was this nice marriage of show and business, commercialism, but also great storytelling. Look at the 90s.
The films were incredible. And they were like made with the polish and a budget. I think the culture was different. There was respect for the audience. Also, everyday people were cinephiles without being really the label of a cinephile. By having the video store, by having Entertainment Weekly with the internet and digital technology and all this shit, and the corporations owning more and more of Hollywood, of course they're gonna prioritize quick money and not look at the fucking audience, the people that actually matter. One thing else, I was wondering.
because I grew up with films like ET or the big family films that really did something to a wider audience. I was thinking are still like good family films, are they still made nowadays that the children now will look back within 20 or 30 years and say, okay, that was the ET for how it was for you. my gosh, yeah.
recent episode I talked about ET and basically I've shown my kid carefully certain things. He's five so I'm trying to be careful but it gets to a point where it's time to watch some PG movies. Anyways I showed him ET I've got a video of him watching the moment where John Williams's score is going nuts and Spielberg has them going over the moon with the bike and whoa and I filmed my kid watching this and the look on his face was pure it's almost like he discovered a new emotion.
And this is what you're talking about. That's an exception. That's a wonderful film. It's not overrated. It holds its own. But that's what we deserve and that's what we should continue building on. It just went in the other direction after a certain point. So you have to show your son ET, but you don't have any films like right now that have the same... I don't think so. I don't want to be ignorant, but I don't think so. And I hate to be a cliche of living in the... Back in our day, it was good. They knew what we were doing.
There's also just so much saturation and like how the fuck do you even stand out? The releasing of things and the curation of things is also really needed right now. And I think that's a space that's really not being opportunized on. Thank you for indulging me and for talking to me about the state of the movie business. Back to your film, Holy Rosito, production wise, you had your cast, you figured out your lead and your co-lead. What about production? Because it's a rather small film. The only thing that we wanted to be sure of is that
The more shooting days we had, the better. And in Belgium, the standard for a feature film is like 30 days. But with the budget that we had, think the first scheduling was like on 24 days. And then I had something, no, I really want to invest in my actors on set because I love to improvise a bit, especially because we worked with a lot of children. So then actually we decided to approach it another way and that...
We didn't have a grip department. We didn't have a script continuity. And we worked a lot with natural light. And that was very important. Because of that, we were able to shoot more days. And I'm very happy that we chose for that. It looks so good to your film, but also natural light. Ben, I used to be a grip for a while. And I'd be on film sets, and you'd watch some of these DPs just bring out every light on the truck.
and it looked like shit afterwards. It looks like what it is, which is you're trying too hard. It looks fake, it's taking me out of it. We don't want to take me out of it, we want to pull me into it. So why would you abandon realism? Why would you abandon the thing that would make you feel like you were right there, which is natural light, and there's a place and time for shiny, policy, I think it works with certain Hollywood comedies or whatever, but that time has been the past these days. I feel like realism is where it's at. My DP is, besides of a very good friend of me, is the one that I'm working with.
during my film school and I'm always laughing with him because I think he's a very talented guy, but because his name is Dries de Pute and I'm always calling him Dries Eye and the Light because he has a very good eye and sensitive for like natural light and making things beautiful with the light you have. It's a beautiful film. What did you guys shoot on? What kind of camera? It was the Arri Mini with like the full sensor. It looks...
Amazing. It's not just the camera, but it's a combination of the camera. It's how you use it. It's how you frame it, how you light, how you make it feel. And then your production design, your costume design. The film is very colorful. And I think a lot of it I noticed was the wardrobe choices and the little red streak in the girl's hair, the blue jacket right here on this press kit, the yellow tank top. I feel like the movie was very colorful and a lot of it was just simple wardrobe. At least that's how it seems. You had a costume designer, you had a production designer? Yeah.
Absolutely. How do you collaborate with those departments? Actually, the costume designer did play a part in all the tools. So she's actually not an actress, but she's a costume designer and a stylist. She's a very good friend of mine. So she knows exactly what I like or what I don't like. And for me, it was very important for the costume design, but as well for the production design that when you read the screenplay, you could imagine a very gray social drama like.
misery porn, you could say. And for me, it was very important not to show that in that way. So for me, it was very important to give a contrast with the colors. And she doesn't live in a very gray social apartment with lots of cans of beers and boxes of pizza. It's expected, right? And I really wanted to have a lot of sun. And because the situations are sometimes like very miserable.
or not hopeful and for me it was like very interesting to show that in a contrast but in a realistic way because I always wanted to tell like a realistic story and a genuine story. Juxtaposition and contrast keep things interesting. Like showing a difficult situation but with this colorful backdrop is just ironic, isn't it? It's interesting. That's a good choice. You can't be too on the nose and even that technique is going to be old news in 10 years. We've already seen the deliberate...
The visuals need to match the thing. Now it's, okay, now we're going for irony or we're going for contrast. Shit, when is that gonna be? And the Florida project was a big inspiration for me. It's a very hard film, but they're shooting in the purple motel on a way that is fresh and colorful. And I really like the film. I can totally see that in your film. that makes sense. Have you seen Anor yet? Yeah. What'd you think? I wasn't a fan.
Okay. Let's talk about it real quick. I was really disappointed because I was a huge fan of the Florida Project. I think it's actually in my top 10 of all time favorites. And then I saw Amnora and maybe the buzz was too big. I don't know, but I thought it was like different films together, different playing styles, because I thought the woman, the main character was like very credible. But then you have a lot of the bad guys.
that I thought were playing in a very theatrical way. Like the parents of the Russian guy always thinking this is out of another film. for me, it was not one big right choice or something. I can see how you feel. I feel like it's this combination of subgenres, this kind of mashup a little bit of a film, which worked for me and reminds me of another Mikey Madison film actually, and Tarantino films in general, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, where it's like this mashup of genres and subgenres.
But man, it's fucking hard to pull off. And I could understand your takeaway. On the other side, I also saw Parasite, the best foreign language Oscar film, a couple of years ago. And for me, that's the same. It starts with a comedy and then you have like drama and then you have even horror and a thriller aspect. And for me, that works very well. I also would like to say that it all depends on when do you see the film, when in your life.
after a day that you worked, after you had a whole vacation, it's so subjective and it's so difficult because maybe I see Anura within two weeks and I have a total different feeling about it. Yeah, it's so true. How you watch a film. also, expectations are real thing. It will mess you up a little bit sometimes. But you're also allowed to feel how you feel. Your takeaway for Anura is valid. There was a shift in that film when the mafia guy or whatever the hell, their family showed up, the Armenian guy and then the other guy, the handler.
Yeah, it's like it shifted. And I liked it and appreciated it because for me it was like this fresh pivot. But I can see what you mean. was in a venue with a lot of old people who were talking during the whole movie. my God. everything was funny. So when they had the first time sex, they're lying in the bed and then the old man next to me said, he's still wearing his socks. This theater sounds lit. Where is this theater?
I was just thinking, just shut up, let me watch the movie. What city was this in? In Ghent, next to Brussels in Belgium. Okay, nice. I'm gonna have to go over there and watch the movie. They sound wild over there. And of course, one of my favorite movies is in Bruges. I love it. It's a film in Bruges. In Bruges, yeah. Have you seen it? McDonough. McDonough, yeah. Yeah, worked on that film. was like an assistant of location manager.
So I just have to say, okay, don't take pictures of Colin Farrell. my God, that's so great. This is a special movie for me. This might be in my top 10, but maybe, definitely 20. This is perfect. We got to talk about this for a minute. That mashup of the balance of combining genres, sub genres, it's hard to do, but when it's done well, it makes something so special. And I feel like Embruise was such a wonderful blend of crime drama. There would be tragedy. It was such a special movie. Even when Ralph Fiennes' character comes in, this dude is...
making me laugh my ass off right now. Is this allowed? Just when you start injecting comedy into a very serious situation, but then you have the crime, like inverted tropes. Anyways, I love that movie and I love seeing a city I'd never heard before either. Do you think it's his best film? It's my favorite film of his, but I would say, I didn't love Seven Psychopaths. I don't know, something about it. I thought I would. And again, that could be your Enora situation where the hype and my expectations were so very high. For some reason it didn't work for me.
What I really like about movies is that you laugh and cry at the same time. Why not? Yeah. Even with his latest film, like The Banshees, it was for me also like so tragic, but also so funny. That's something that he's like very good in, his dialogues and in his portraying of characters. mean, playwright turned director, right? That's a great example of your film, Holy Rosita. You spent a lot of time making sure the material was airtight. We all know that. We all hear that. It's all about the good script, but it's so important. And I think
A lot of times you can rush through it because of the desire to start filming. so important Madonna is like a great writer, a great writer. And I think it's something like here in Belgium now, it's a lot of content. Okay. faster. But that is not necessarily the right way to do it because I think most of the things that I really like that are made here in Belgium or even worldwide are things where you can feel, okay, they work like very hard and very hard.
Working means like most of the time, long working. So I think it's so important to take your time to write the screenplay because when you don't have a good script, you can't fix it in like your shooting. Fix it in post. I'll say movies that kind of come out now feel rushed. They don't feel developed enough. Hollywood films, movies get mass exhibited where the screenplay seems rushed for sure. And then it's just the development process seems rushed. Anyways, back to your movie production. You started out with 24 days, but you ended up being with about 30 days.
Talk about the value of having those extra days. You're able to just really work and play and get into the sandbox. We had a lot of scenes with lot of actors, especially the days with the children, because I didn't want the children to have read the scenes before or that they studied their lines because I barely believe that it's well done when they just give their sentence. Most of the time they just knew about their situation. Then you need time just to let it happen and...
And because Rosita is very loved by one family and those family have five children and it's one big chaos in that family. So I really wanted to shoot it in a very chaotic way. And then I was saying to the girl, okay, and now you just push your brother. He doesn't know it, but then you give him a fuck you and stuff like that. Just try to let things happen and just be there on the moment. And I think.
Most of those moments we have used in our edit. Got you. Yeah, just capture the magic as it's happening. That's what's about documentaries as far as all the best stuff. I didn't write nothing. just was there to film it and I didn't fuck up the filming. It's my God. I don't know how many times I watch a daily and I'm like, you can't make this stuff up. Same with like fiction filmmaking though. It's like where you get in those gray areas where you go off the path of trying to control every little piece of dialogue like that. And then you end up getting this magical, authentic moment.
So Torino Film Lab, did you develop this script at Torino before you filmed? Yeah, it was actually a lab during the COVID. So it were all sessions. And that was a pity because Torino is very intriguing and inspiring. It's always nice because you have three sessions in that year that you travel to a city in Europe and then you're together with like other creators and writers and producers.
So now we're online sessions, but it's always very interesting because those people, don't know you. They don't know what's actually your background or where do you come from, how your social background is here in Belgium. It's very interesting to then feel that the story that we were writing on that moment, that it felt like a universal story. That's great. What about Torino though? How is it as a city? It's a very cozy city, although you have the very Italian feeling of the architecture, but it's not that...
super big as well, so you can just walk from one side to the other. It's Italy, so you have like great food and the best. So it was wonderful to be there. For me, it was the third time that I was in. As far as the post-production, did it feel like it came together pretty good? The hardest part of that post-production process is the first time when you see the first cut. Then you walk into the editing room.
And then my editor, he's always laughing at me because he knows what's going to happen. And then I'm watching my film and the first thing that I'm thinking is, okay, this is it. Is this all? What did I do? And then it has to take step by step of growing and growing to start re-believing in what you have done is worth Trusting the process.
But it's very difficult in the beginning to trust that process. It's always the same. Every time this happened to me three days ago at the PI cut, I'm like, fuck. no, maybe we got something. I don't know, And I'm talking with friends and colleagues. Actually, my producer, made also a feature and he actually couldn't come one week to the editing room again. With me, it was only like two or three days and I could come back and take a look at the images. But for him, it was like...
like a whole week that he was like really, he was- Physically sick. I said this before in the podcast, but this makes me feel better. This is a great thing about the podcast, we're relaying war stories and whatever. It's like, you too? Okay, yeah, I guess I'm okay then. But I just remember like going to this Vice test screening and seeing Adam McKay. I think it was what we were watching the cut right before the final cut. They were trying to do final things. I remember how fidgety and nervous and just in pieces he was. He was sitting right behind me and to my right. even Adam McKay, he was a great filmmaker. Again, talking about-
films that have a blend of genre. And it's just like somebody, even at that level, it's just part of the process. If I don't feel that way, then I might be in trouble. It's true. although we do feel lots of the time, like very depressed on what we are doing or what we have done, we still always want to do it every single time again. And it's like a self-torturing thing, but we really wanted to do because when you then have your film that is finished.
and you can present it to an audience and you know that you moved something with an audience, then you forget all the misery that you have. I had a friend that wanted to see this movie I made, Bellevue, and I rewatched it and I'm like, this is the only movie that I've watched where I'm like, I can watch this. This movie doesn't bother me. I don't want to watch any other thing I made. But this movie, I'm like, shit, I guess I'm getting better. I forgot, this actually works. And I remember being in the process of, I don't know what we got here. So anyways, it's a crazy thing.
Even with Bellevue, I was like, why did I keep this fucking two minute thing in? This is stupid. Why? Why did I do it? It's actually Michael Hanek who once said, and I thought it was a very inspirational quote that if I'm ever happy with the film that I've made, I should just quit. Then I don't can do anything better. sounds like Herzog quote as well. He's one of the greats Hanek. Okay. What about screening the film at Torino Film Festival? It was quite special because we were with 25.
people of the cast and the crew who joined me to go to the festival. So it was like very special because we already had the premiere here in Belgium, but it was actually the first time to show it to another audience and to an Italian audience. And so it was magical to have everybody there and with Daphne as well who was there and the Italian people were very excited. And that's cool because Italians are very expressive. So...
you immediately know, okay, if they don't like it, you will hear it like directly even during the screen. I was going to ask you what's an Italian audience like, but yeah, there's the answer. It was the first time of being in a venue with an Italian audience and it was the opening film, Eden, of Ron Howard. And there actually the bad character got shot and then the whole theater was like applauding because they were happy. And for me it was something very new because in Belgium everybody is so...
Reservated and so like very stiff when you won the best film award. What was that like? It felt like very unreal actually, I left Turin on Wednesday and Then I just had to go back to the normal life because I'm teaching as well at film school and I did shot a commercial and and on Friday I got a message your name will be mentioned during the award ceremony. Do you want to come back tomorrow then your?
becoming crazy in the Wait, wait. Were you thinking, wow, are they telling me that? So maybe it can be a special mention as well, but are they flying me back for a special mention? OK, what are the prizes? And stuff like that. So I didn't sleep thinking of what it could be. And then we flew back. actually, during that award ceremony, and the longer you don't hear the name of your film, OK, the prize is getting bigger and bigger. So the only prize that was left was the best film award.
And then they said, Holy Rosita, the one is distubed. It was so cool because I'm very happy because it gives way more extra attention to the film. Maybe it will be distributed now in Italy. And I received a very big selfie. show it to you. I love, yeah. I loved, it's great, dude. I love the still image of Torino film festival this year with the Marlon Brando. Because there was a film, Marlon Brando film. No, it was actually fiction. I don't know the director, but...
Marlon Brando was played by Zane. That's pretty good casting. Billy Zane. Yeah. And I got to know Billy Zane because I'm a huge fan of Titanic. I think it's the film that I've seen the most in my life. So I went to Billy Zane and I asked, I have a silly question. Can I have a picture with you? And then he said, a silly question. It's no silly question. Can I have a picture with you in the middle of this evening? And I was never casted because Billy Zane called me the winner of the evening. These special moments.
that are so invigorating and the door flies wide open after they happen. A few days before the ceremony for the LA Emmys, the guy hit me up from PBS and he was like, are you able to come to the ceremony? Whatever day it was, Saturday. I'm like, yeah, I'm coming. And I was like, why did he ask me to come? Did we win? Does he know if we won or not? He's probably telling everybody to come. I don't know, I'm going either way. Anyways, jumping to that moment where your film title is announced from the speaker's lips. The fucking joy.
and exaltation and validation for me personally. It's unreal and it does give this bigger attention spotlight to your film. And it's such a wonderful thing that stays with you probably forever. Absolutely. And although you don't make films to win like prizes, I think the first thing is that you want to move an audience and to get a largest audiences as possible to get to see your film. But you just know that the winning of prizes just
will let your film grow and that your film will be able to get in contact with Social currency, there's a social token once you get an Emmy or Best Film Award at Torino. People take note. Congrats on that dude. Yeah. I saw your website and I saw two time Emmy winner. Yeah, yeah. So I immediately thought, okay, this guy is I think it helps a little bit.
I don't know, they're regionals, but it's wonderful. But it's nice to have a little clout to hang your hat on. But you're right, you can't make films to win awards. You have to make them to touch audiences. And then it's a question of what is your audience reach? And these are tools that help to build the reach. And especially in like my career so far, I had the chance that my graduation shirt was selected for the Comm Film Festival for the Officials. And won a jury prize.
out of the hands of Michel Gondry. So it meant a lot to me because it was the start of my career. And if I didn't get the chance, I still believe I made a good short. But if I didn't have the chance of being selected for the Cannes Film Festival, it maybe would have worked out completely different. Okay, what do you think you've learned as a filmmaker up to this point? I usually ask, what would you tell your early filmmaking self now that you've learned since then? But I want to find a way to ask it differently. I think I will...
also answer with a cliche. I think the American dream, just never give up. And it is a very big cliche, but I think it's so important because I know a lot of colleagues of me who didn't want to go further with the arts or filmmaking or telling stories, because the big problem with what we're doing is that always you have to find a way to...
get along with the disappointments. And you always lay your heart on a paper in a screenplay towards selection committee, towards funds. And actually you more get nos than you get yes. And you don't have to take it personally, but that's very difficult because the stories that most of the people of us are telling are in a way very personal. So I think never give up. it's also sounds like It's good. And it works. It's good advice.
What about distribution? What do you have next for the film? Actually, so far we don't have a sales agent or distributor yet. We have it in like the Benelux in the Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg. That's like the territory. We're looking to have the North American premiere, but that's not already known where it will be. So it's always like with festivals that you have to wait on. We're in the hope.
to get a sales agent or distributor to get the film and theaters like in Europe and even worldwide would be great. It's so interesting the space between your film is done, your film is premiered and then moving into like sales. I love the whole entire process. I ended up being an accidentally a producer as well. You know what I mean? But because of the need for me to make my own shit and get it out there. Then you start realizing how do I get it further? How do I get it in more territories? Who do I talk to? And so it's always interesting to hear the different filmmakers in that phase.
And even in Belgium, that is a small country, it's also a very hard commercial world. Because when we were released, I think after three weeks, June 2 came into the theatres and then it's just, okay, bye bye. And I think, how can you be like so cruel? But the only thing is that it's a commercial thing and they will earn more money out of June 2 in a venue than Holy Rosita. And the money...
keeps the lights on. So it's the same situation everywhere. Yeah, unfortunately, yes. Please like and subscribe to this podcast and follow us on social media at past present feature and let us know in the comments section what movies you're watching. Thank you so much for listening to the past present feature podcast and we'll see you next time. Peace.
